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With The Death of Osama bin Laden, We’re All Hawks Now

Conservatives Won The Policy Arguments

One year ago today, a Navy SEAL team killed Osama bin Laden in Pakistan, the culmination of many years of intelligence-gathering. The operation was personally authorized by President Obama, over the objections of Vice President Joe Biden. While national security leaders had, properly, publicly downplayed the importance of getting bin Laden – it was more important to focus on dismantling the operational network of Al Qaeda and similar groups, and overemphasis on one man hiding in isolation would give the fugitive bin Laden an unnecessary propaganda victory – it was nonetheless a significant longstanding priority of three Administrations to get him, and a great day for America when he was killed. The Obama campaign, recognizing that there is broad bipartisan agreement on this point among voters, has done everything possible to capitalize politically on the President’s role.

There are three real lessons to be drawn a year later:

1. In the big picture, we’re all national security hawks now.

2. As a matter of policy specifics, the hawks won and the anti-war movement lost every round.

3. As a matter of partisan politics, the side that loses the debate over the death of bin Laden will be the side that overplays its hand the worst.

I. We’re All National Security Hawks Now

The first takeaway from Obama’s emphasis on hogging credit for the bin Laden takedown – besides the obvious fact that everything Obama does these days is designed to distract the public from his domestic policy record – is that there is bipartisan agreement that being seen as the more hawkish candidate is an unmitigated political positive. No politically significant figure or group is left making the policy argument that the aggressive, unilateral projection of American military power overseas to kill our enemies is a bad thing. Obama’s partisans today make no real effort to hide the fact that they are following the Bush 2004 playbook and trying to run to Mitt Romney’s right on national security toughness. Even with war-weariness in Afghanistan increasingly crossing partisan lines, we are all hawks now.

II. The Hawks Won the Policy Debates, Too

The victory of the hawks is not just atmospheric or partisan. The bin Laden raid vindicated many policies championed by Bush-era national security hawks, several of which were opposed by Obama and other Democrats or were subjected to seriously overwrought criticisms during the Bush years. To the extent that any Obama policy deserves any of the credit for the death of bin Laden, it is only a hawkish, unilateral policy orientation towards Pakistan. Obama can claim a win, but the antiwar movement lost every round.

I detailed this observation last year (as did Ace), and streiff hit a few of the major examples as well earlier today. While my analysis a year ago was based on preliminary reports, we actually have not learned that much new since then on any of the relevant issues. Let’s summarize the key points:

A. Guantanamo and CIA Detention Centers

What we know, based on what’s been made public, is that bin Laden was located primarily by means of following a trail of intelligence that revealed that he was communicating with the outside world mainly via a single faithful courier, Ibrahim Saeed Ahmed, who went by the nom de guerre of Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti. And the leads that gave us that knowledge came from the interrogation of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay and CIA “black site” detention centers. Those detainees included 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Al Qaeda operational chief Abu Faraj al-Libi, “20th hijacker” Muhammad Mani al-Qahtani, and Hassan Ghul, an associate of Al Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

None of this would have been possible if these detainees were treated as ordinary prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions, to be asked only the proverbial name, rank and serial number. Barack Obama campaigned against these detention and interrogation sites, closed the CIA “black sites” his first week in office, and is still promising (albeit in increasingly empty fashion) to close Guantanamo. The killing of bin Laden is an unambiguous victory for the detention and interrogation policies of the Bush Administration. And with those sites not accepting new detainees and the Administration switching emphasis to killing rather than capturing and interrogating enemy combatants, it is questionable whether that success can be replicated in the future, with terrorist leaders like Ayman al-Zawahiri and Mullah Omar still at large.

B. Iraq

Of the detainees questioned on the path to tracking al-Kuwaiti, the one that investigators have described as the “linchpin” of the whole investigation is Hassan Ghul. And where did we capture Hassan Ghul? In Iraq in 2004, reportedly by a Kurdish security checkpoint on the Iranian border carrying a message from Zarqawi to bin Laden asking for bin Laden’s support in the insurgency. Of course, none of this would have happened had Iraq remained a Saddam Hussein-run police state hostile to the United States. If we hadn’t invaded Iraq, we would not have captured Ghul, and bin Laden would still be alive. Does that, all by itself, justify the Iraq War? I wouldn’t go that far – there are a whole battery of considerations that we’ve all exhaustively beaten to death in that debate. But yet again: Barack Obama opposed the war, and without it, he wouldn’t have had the intelligence to get bin Laden.

C. NSA Surveillance

Electronic surveillance also played a key part in locating al-Kuwaiti: at some point between when the CIA pieced together his identity around 2007 and when he was located in 2009, the NSA surveillance net – the subject of much criticism back in the 2005-08 period – was set out to track calls between al-Kuwaiti’s his family members and associates and anyone in Pakistan. I’ve seen no reference anywhere to a warrant ever having been obtained for this eavesdropping, and it worked exactly as defenders of warrantless eavesdropping predicted it might. As I argued back in 2005, there was never a policy reason to object to this sort of thing, as long as it was targeted as described (which it was here: to known associates and relatives of al-Kuwaiti).

As a legal matter, was a warrant needed, under the theory of the critics? It’s not clear one was, as most of the public sources indicate that al-Kuwaiti’s relatives (at least the ones he was caught communicating with) were in the Persian Gulf, not inside the United States. But it’s clear that the very same tool at issue in the FISA controversy was crucial to locating al-Kuwaiti and therefore bin Laden.

D. Coercive Interrogation

The three points above have barely even been contested by the once-noisy critics of Bush Administration policies; they have circled all their wagons around denying that coercive interrogation produced any returns, in line with their longstanding insistence that such interrogation has never, ever worked in any situation and never, ever conceivably could in any possible situation.

But the facts are more complex. The Bush Administration authorized the use of waterboarding on only three detainees, but Khalid Sheikh Muhammad was one of them, and he later provided key intelligence; you can draw your own conclusions as to whether confessing to the good cop means the bad cop accomplished nothing, but it’s safe to say that if this was a criminal trial, bin Laden’s lawyers would be arguing that any information obtained after waterboarding was “fruit of the poisonous tree.” Ghul appears to have been subjected to a number of the lesser coercive tactics, and al-Qahtani seems to as well. While basically everyone agrees that it’s preferable to use non-coercive interrogation techniques when possible, the record here suggests that a little humility by those calling for a total ban would be advisable.

E. Unilateralism

Not one of the policies that led to bin Laden being located had originated with the Obama Administration. As noted above, several were harshly criticized by Obama and his allies, and some have been discontinued by Obama. Does that mean Obama’s policies get no credit at all?

There is one argument for crediting Obama’s policies, besides the decision to to authorize the mission itself – but it’s an argument for a more hawkish, unilateral posture in the War on Terror. The Bush Administration treated Pakistan, from very early on, as an ally, albeit an often recalcitrant one, and generally conductied under-the-public-radar incursions into Pakistani territory that nobody would admit to publicly. During the 2008 campaign, Obama made a point of arguing publicly that if bin Laden or other high-value Al Qaeda targets turned up in Pakistan, he’d authorize unilateral incursions into Pakistani territory. A variety of other candidates – Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, John McCain, and Mitt Romney among them – ripped Obama for this pronouncement, especially in conjunction with his (oft-repeated, since-abandoned) promise to meet without preconditions with the leaders of hostile states like Iran, Cuba, North Korea and Venezuela.

It’s easy to overstate the importance of this debate in retrospect, as McCain in particular placed most of his emphasis not on the idea that going into Pakistan was a bad idea – he famously promised to follow bin Laden “to the gates of Hell” – but on the idea that it was naive and dangerous to announce publicly in advance that you’d do so (“you don’t say that out loud,” was McCain’s memorable debate line):

Nonetheless, if you credit Obama in this regard, bear in mind that it’s crediting him for being more hawkish and more unilateralist than Bush or McCain. Nobody has suggested that Obama should have worked with NATO or the UN before taking action. As I said: we’re all hawks now.

III. The Side That Overplays Its Hand Worse Will Lose the Partisan Debate

As I noted last year, the American people give Obama high marks for getting bin Laden, but also recognize the importance of the work done by the Bush Administration to get us to that point in the War on Terror – sort of the mirror image of the public’s view of the economy. It would be dangerously ungracious for Republicans not to give any credit to Obama under those circumstances, even when coupled with legitimate criticisms (eg, former Attorney General Mukasey’s point that Obama’s premature announcement of bin Laden’s death may have compromised the value of intelligence collected from his compound). Mitt Romney is right that the decision to go after bin Laden is one that even Jimmy Carter would likely have made – but Romney is only making that point in self-defense, Robert Gibbs having suggested that Romney would not have made the same call in the same circumstances, and Obama running ads suggesting the same thing. As noted above, there is more than enough room for Republicans to make the affirmative policy case that the intelligence trail that led to bin Laden was paved with conservative, hawkish policies, and to use the success of the bin Laden operation to cement bipartisan public support for those policies. When you are winning the policy debate, don’t let the immediate needs of an election season get in the way of driving that victory home.

For Obama, the flip side is that he should resist the trap of John Kerry’s military service, i.e., overselling a positive to the point where it becomes a negative. Americans get it; they don’t need to be beaten over the head with the point, not when they have a very long list of other reasons to doubt Obama’s leadership and are more than a little weary of him insisting at every turn that all bad things to happen on his watch are entirely the fault of conditions he inherited from Bush. And yet from last May, things like the registration of www.gutsycall.com and the dispatching of flacks uniformly lauding Obama for making a “gutsy call” suggested that Obama was going to milk this one, not-very-difficult decision as far as he could take it. As I noted at the time, this smacked of the proverbial guy acting like he’d never been in the end zone before, and he still runs the risk of alienating some voters who may not like the effort to put the President, personally, at the center of a military and intelligence triumph for obvious electoral purposes (precisely the thing his own party spent the past decade accusing President Bush of doing).

The issues of a president’s leadership and policies on the national security front are legitimate issues, the subject of legitimate debate, but must be handled with the seriousness that respect for the subject matter demands. Both candidates should tread carefully here, because the real partisan political danger lies in overplaying their hands.
____

Besides my lengthy discussion here, additional sources of varying types and credibility on the hunt for bin Laden and the critics of its methods here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here.

COMMENTS

  • Tbone

    he will be claiming to be the man who shot Liberty Valance.

  • funwithknives

    a rifle if it were alive, batted it’s eyes at him, whispered come hither phrases to him, and gave him lessons a-plenty.

    But on the other hand, he can honestly claim to be the guy who choked America’s Collective Chicken.

  • Jack_Savage

    Too late.

    This junket to Afghanistan is one of the most breathtakingly stupid political moves to occur in my lifetime. It is the effort of a sad, weak little man to be a tough guy.

    He alienates his base by reminding them that he has followed Bush’s playbook to the letter, he does not gain support from Independents or Republicans who understand that Navy Seals killed Bin Laden with intelligence gathered under the framework of the Cheney / Bush doctrine and that Obama had nothing to do with it, and creates an opening for Romney on this issue a mile wide.

    He is like the fat guy on the fishing boat who relies on the captain for strategy and positioning, an experienced angler for the actual fight, a first mate to gaff and boat the fish, then insists on posing in the picture at the dock.

    People can tell the difference between a hero and a poser.

  • Green_Lantern

    Barack Obama is The Little Child Who Has Never Been Told “No”. He is so very sure of himself. He suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder. It’s a real thing, and he has it.

    All we need to do is keep giving him rope. The one thing about Romney is that it is virtually impossible for him to get off message. Despite being labelled a flip-flopper, to look at him and hear him reminds you of how unchanging he actually is. He’s dogged. He won’t need charisma to win this election. Just keep on keepin’ on.

    Obama meanwhile is in the beginning of his death spiral implosion. The things he is saying and doing now are breathtakingly stupid. I seriously doubt he is listening to even his closest handlers now.

    They have created a monster. This is the first time in his life he has gotten to be his own person, and he’s going to be it. Unfortunately, it’s not a very good person. He doesn’t have the background for that.

    • Green_Lantern

      how much Barack Obama hates this country. He hates it viscerally. Because of who he is. Because of his upbringing.

      When he loses, Americans will learn even more about the guy in how he handles a bad defeat. Unfortunately, his staunchest supporters feel the same way about America as he does.

  • aesthete

    1: In the big picture, support for a bombing run on Iran is somewhat less than 50%, and there is virtually no support among the body politic for regime change in the country a la Iraq. As you note, war weariness has made indefinite continuation of the war in Afghanistan unpopular. While I would agree with you that we’re never going back to a law enforcement paradigm when it comes to fighting the GWoT (and rightly so), the major “boots on the ground” policy during the Bush administration has not been as successful. This is as it should be: those who supported a move away from law enforcement paradigms have been proven absolutely right in their predictions, whereas very few of the predictions and goals of OIF boosters (and Afghanistan occupation boosters, as well) have been realized.

    2: I agree with this (given a certain definition of hawk), though we will of course differ in our opinions on whether or not this was an unqualified good.

    3: I agree with you and with Jack Savage on this point.

    I do have to comment on this line of argument:

    “If we hadn?t invaded Iraq, we would not have captured Ghul, and bin Laden would still be alive.”

    I’m not a fan of the unprovable counterfactual, but this is tendentious. We’ve had several opportunities to kill or capture OBL over the years, from the Clinton administration to Tora Bora. Would we have encountered Hassan Ghul or found the information through other means? I have no idea — but when it comes right down to it, the capture of Hassan Ghul was not the goal of OIF, but mere dumb luck. Dumb, incidental luck doesn’t either support or rebut a case for or against OIF. It’s a bit of irony, but not much more than that.

  • northeastred

    some are more effective than others. Obama is all about ending wars, not fighting them. True, he does oversee an aggressive drone policy and I won’t take anything away from him for being president when bin Laden was killed. But, in hindsight, we have no one but Bush and Cheney to blame for botching Iraq and making it possible for Obama to become president in the first place. I’ll never forget General Eaton of the NSA calling Cheney an “incompetent war fighter.” That, to me, was the final nail in the coffin for the chicken hawks. Even the military was turning on them, and Eaton was a good military man who called them like he saw them.

    I have every confidence that with President Romney, we won’t return to the policies of aged dinosaurs like Cheney and Rumsfeld, trying to refight Vietnam, while caring not a damn about diplomacy–as if it’s a liberal word for the weak.

    • http://www.baseballcrank.com Dan McLaughlin

      we ban on sight for the “chicken hawk” idiocy. Do NOT do that again.

      • jakeofalltrades

        Those who make the chicken hawk argument without using the words “chicken hawk” usually recidivate.

        But the ones who actually use those words are invariably pinko-commie footsoldiers for the left.

        • Jack_Savage

          …no one seems to be connecting the dots.

    • aesthete

      “Obama is all about ending wars, not fighting them.”

      That’s a statement that could be applied to any politician, at any time. While I disagree with the decision to invade Iraq, I assume that President Bush did not send troops into Afghanistan or Iraq because he thought it would be cheeky or funny. Every minute that Obama keeps our troops in Afghanistan is a minute that he more interested in “fighting” wars than in “ending” them. Keeping our troops and escalating in Afghanistan is an implicit acknowledgement of certain values that the President holds, to say nothing of our completely voluntary “kinetic action” against a sovereign state which did not attack us.

      BTW, Bush/Cheney didn’t “botch” Iraq, at least not in any real sense: Iraq botched Iraq, and any administration which decided to fight in Iraq would have experienced many of the same problems that the Bush administration experienced. I can’t say that I’m really a fan of our Middle East policy, but hawkish policies against Iraq predated the Bush administration and include the Clinton administration, most of the Democrat party, Tony Blair, and many, many others.

      Lastly, please define what you mean by “diplomacy”. I remember a lot of both very good and terribly appalling diplomacy during the Bush administration, so I dunno what you’re going for there.

      • acat

        (Cheshire grin)

      • jakeofalltrades

        I don’t care how long it takes; I’m just glad that the Marines in Beirut were finally avenged. And quite brutally so.

        • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

          Beirut – and Fallujah and a couple of places in Afghanistan – should be parking lots and the ground should have been salted with pork rinds prior to paving.

          I do have a foreign policy suggestion for the next administration related to conflicts in the middle east.

          1. Send in troops and air support to seal the borders of said countries involved.

          2. Kill anyone attempting to cross the borders in either direction.

          3. Air drop small arms and ammunition to all sides.

          4. When the shooting stops, air drop more ammo.

          • northeastred

            but not other language. I’m sure you’re joking mbecker. And you’d be right out front if it wasn’t for that bum knee, right? : )

          • gekster

            He means what he says, and says what he means.
            If you knew him you would know that.
            And no bum knee, just a dead white cat, and Franz, just recently.
            And the cat is running for Prez, and would be better than Obama.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            I would not risk the life of one sailor, soldier, airman or Marine to save the life of everyone in the Middle East. They’ve been actively slaughtering one another for at least 13 centuries and every time somebody stops the civil war they turn on their neighbors.

          • Jack_Savage

            …is still chicken hawking.

          • Repair_Man_Jack

            Obama cares more. He closed Git….,oops, OK, maybe he’s just there for the photo-op afterall.

          • streiff

      • northeastred

        because politically, it would doom him as a war quitter rather than someone who is strong on defense. That’s the sad state of politics. And the more Republicans begin to grumble about the pointlessness of that war, the more hardened he becomes. Even though it’s probably killing him from a moral standpoint. Pure cowardice.

        And as far as the “C H” word goes, I won’t use it, but as far as I’m concerned, it’s a bipartisan word. I have an equal amount of contempt for anyone who talks a tough game about putting American lives at stake for purely political reasons. IMO Obama is prime suspect number one in this regard. But we all know who the others are.

        • aesthete

          So let me get this straight: Obama can’t get out of Afghanistan because Republicans would attack him as a surrender monkey yada yada… but when Republicans start to grumble about the pointlessness of that war in part because of public disapproval, this solidifies Obama’s position? If this is what you think about Obama’s rationale for Afghanistan, then you have even less respect for Obama’s “intellect” than I do — and trust me brother, that’s a low bar to limbo under.

          Here’s what I think: I think that Obama has, at best, mild preferences when it comes to foreign policy, but that he cares about domestic policy and his own popularity a lot more, and doesn’t really care about Middle Easterners or US troops. Foreign policy decisions are yawners to him insofar as they don’t help him politically; it’s basically been on autopilot since day one (again, with the exception of some embarrassing attempts at World-Changing Lightbringer puff speeches with little in the way of substance). I doubt that he thinks about the moral impact of his decisions on this front except in passing. Democrats moved heaven and earth to pass a lousy, unpopular healthcare bill — but they can’t be bothered to close shop on an unpopular war, and start another one in Libya. Go to an anti-war protest (if you can find one), and try finding those folk who protested with fierce moral urgency — I’ll be surprised if you can find more than a handful of leftists anti-war protesters at a given rally. That’ll tell you just how much hand-wringing the left (including the Light-Bringer) is engaging in over our foreign policy.

          • northeastred

            Obama is boxed in in Afghanistan. It’s a war he had to continue, lest he be seen as a dove after promising to end the war in Iraq. I’ll guarantee you’ll only see him change course if he wins reelection.

          • Repair_Man_Jack

            1) Obama had to look big and tough.

            2) He could look big and tough by continuing Afghanistan and getting over 1,000 US military personnel killed.

            3) He got over 1,000 US military personnel killed looking big and tough despite the fact that he was only doing it as a moral potemkin and a political gambit.

            4) You seem perfectly happy with those 1,000 deaths because Obama got to look big and tough and positiion himself politically for re-election.

            5) What do you care more about Northestred? Obama’s political positioning, or the lives of US military personnel?

  • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

    I have to disagree with the tenor of the article, which assumes somehow that Obama has been won over to the right side’s logic or force of reason.

    We’ve won nothing but the right to give Obama more re-election chits for screwing up things as badly as we might have feared. (Never mind that not stopping Iran, losing Egypt to anti-Israeli zealots, etc. is loss enough.)

    The Obama campaign doesnt care a whit about “broad bipartisan agreement on this point among voters”. Obama doesnt care about foreign policy that much – period. He had to be dragged into making decisions he really has no real feel for.

    Now, Obama has done everything possible to capitalize politically and protect his flanks. That has made his term a third Bush term on a number of foreign policies. Politically capitalizing on things liberals loathed about Bush is par for the course.

    But there is no assurance that this would remain during a 2nd Obama term when he is freed from re-election concerns.

    So saying that ‘we won the policy arguments’ is not quite true. Political expediency could undo Obama’s approach in an instant, and liberals who mouth support for Obama’s Bushian actions will almost definitely revert to an anti-hawk stance – irony and double-standards be hanged – when Romney is President.

    It’s just in their nature.

  • Tbone

    “But, in hindsight, we have no one but Bush and Cheney to blame for botching Iraq and making it possible for Obama to become president in the first place. ”

    In your case Sparky, you hindsight comes from looking out your butt.

    Obama became President because the scumbag that at one time was John McCain virtually threw the election to Obama by being stupid, cowardly, tepid and worthless as a candidate. You don’t like Obama? Blame John McCain.

    • rabun1016

      But my thoughts are even stronger about McCain and his inept campaign manager Steve Schmidt.

      • funwithknives

        was not The optimal candidate, now was he?
        We needed an attack dog and failed to get one.
        Who would of ever dreamed a Veteran/’patriot’ would not fight like hell for a just cause? But, more than sadly, that just about sums it up.

  • kowalski

    “Susan Sarandon would have had Tim Robbins kill Osama Bin Laden with a hand-shaven copy of Catcher In The Rye, with Neil Young and Joni Mitchell supplying the background music accompaniment, if it meant that Barack Obama would have a better chance of being elected by letting David Axelrod make it into a campaign video.”

    In fact, in that famous photograph of them all there together in the Situation Room, it’s a little-known fact that Joni Mitchell’s “Dog Eat Dog” is playing in the background. ;)

  • checkmate2012

    as your post suggests….”When you are winning the policy debate, don?t let the immediate needs of an election season get in the way of driving that victory home.”

    Romney should use the OBL kill, the use of drones, Gitmo and enhanced interragation techniques that Obama is now using as his political football, to kill two birds with one stone.

    First, he should publicize loudly that he’s glad the Left and Right can finally agree that that a stong robust military keeps us safe and is in our best national interest, that the Bush tactics worked and set the table for the killing of OBL (fine give BO credit for making the call) and closing Gitmo is a bad idea. This also gives way to make a united call for both parties to stop the military defunding efforts by the Left.

    Obama will be trapped if he agrees or disagrees with those type of comments. If he agrees, the left will fry him for his policies (they are conspicuously quiet already), not to mention breaking his promise to close Gitmo, and will have to turn on him if they have any future credibility on their anti-military mantra.

    If he disagrees with the type of comments I mentioned, then he would negate his own policy actions and prove that all of his decisions were purely motivated by politics and not to save American lives. This would solidify his far-Left base but alienate the Independents. Obama likely would not take this position.

    Seems like a no-win/no-win situation Romney could use to his advantage, giving props to Obama while simultaneously using it to corner Obama with his base, with a smile on his face.

    • ww2nd95

      I’m not sure how much the left would bash Obama for this. Sure the fringe element would hit him, but then you have the majority of the Democrats siding with him on most things, even if they disagree with them in principle. I think if Romney nails Obama with what your suggesting, then Obama would openly agree with Romney, and while Obama might upset the far left (who are going to vote for him no matter what anyway), but he might also gain some ill informed indys, which would hurt Romney.

      I think Romney should go after Obama on foreign policy, as there are plenty of things to go after him on, but as Dan said, be careful not to overplay his hand.

      • checkmate2012

        was a not a throw it in his face tactic, but a “kill ‘em with kindness tone” that Obama would have to agree with and will be outed when he makes more empty promises on the campaign trail as he will inevitably do. He will lose indys if he does an about face.

        If he can get BO to agree on these points, then he can still use other foreign policy actions/decisions to contradict what Obama just agreed to and show how he’s now a flip-flopper. He can’t sustain his seemingly hawkish agenda as evidenced by his slashing of funding and troops as quickly as he can.

  • tnfriendofcoal101368

    admitted he will negotiate with the Taliban perhaps they should stop selling woof tickets. The quote from his speech is below. Mr. President, you don’t negotiate with terrorist, you find them and kill them..

    “Fourth, we?re pursuing a negotiated peace. In coordination with the Afghan government, my administration has been in direct discussions with the Taliban. We?ve made it clear that they can be a part of this future if they break with al Qaeda, renounce violence and abide by Afghan laws.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/75815.html#ixzz1tfqqaePB”

    • funwithknives

      looked to the heavens and wailed : “Allah, what have I done to deserve what is to come…”?

      When the pogroms commence in this hellhole {and they will, ‘so it is written’} and Stadium killings become a weekly occurance, where will Barry be then?
      What side of This Issue will he run to? Will feminists give him the cover he’ll so eagerly seek?

      Unfortunately our history is filled with people(s) abandoned by our short-sightedness and need for MovingOn. {The ‘Blame’ in not party specific}
      The Trail of Tears {just try to give a $20 bill to a Cherokee…}
      Neisei detainment camps
      Vietnamese boat people
      The Killing Fields
      The abandoned Kurds after Desert Storm
      Chaldean Christans in Iraq, made to pay The Jizyah and squeezed out of a country they have lived in for millenia.
      The Hmong left behind in the Central Highlands. {please take a minute to say a prayer and think kindly of General Vang Pao}

      Finally, think once again about the hell these women are about to receive.
      Up close, and very personal……

  • septembergurl

    A few weeks ago I posted that Obama would be running as a foreign policy/war president, and that this might be his only path to victory given his failed economic/domestic policies and the general disarray in his Administration, as well as the obvious competence in the financial area of his likely opponent.

    Here we have the rollout of the foreign policy Presidency: first the Bin Laden victory tour. Then the “end” of our Afghanistan involvement. Both of these are entirely artificial constructs — Obama sent 33,000 additional troops into Afghanistan in 2010 precisely in order to be able to pull them out in the spring and summer of 2012 (which just happens to be his re- election year). As for Bin Laden, Obama appears to grasp how deeply offensive his politicization was, and has toned it down.

    Having said that, however, you are making a huge though common mistake to imagine that these events somehow mean that we (who advocate the use of force when necessary) have won out over pacifist/appeasers.

    On the contrary, you are the one who fails utterly to grasp what Obama has wrought in his Presidency. Let me explain. the main fact about Obama as a political figure is that he is not a baby boomer. Obama is now around fifty. The drama of the Vietnam War — which consumed the youth of politicos like Bush, both Clintons, Kerry, Gore, Romney, and even Gingrich and McCain — was something Obama did not experience. He understands it as a generational touchstone, but it means nothing to him.

    As a result, the use of force is something that carries only instrumental weight:
    The question is not, is it moral or right, but will it be successful? This is what guides Obama. As a result he has retained many policies put in place by his predecessor which turned out to be valuable and useful. He sees no conflict here with the fact that he ran against these policies, and of course, his adoring media will never point out the discrepancy. As a matter of record, Obama advocated escalating the conflict in Afghanistan and pursuing Osama Bin Laden into Pakistan if necessary. He did not run as a pacifist.

    To sum up; Democraps and liberals LOVE the fact that Obama uses force and kills terrorists. They believe that Obama’s success is due to the fact that he is a liberal, smart, good, etc, rather than to the fruition of Bush’s policies. They also LOVE that he is cutting the military. They see no conflict.

    Your triumphalism is wildly misplaced. Democraps believe they use force wisely, while Republicans do it stupidly. The notion that since Obama used force, we have somehow won is very mistaken. As I’ve said, Democraps love it when Obama waxes a bad guy. This is due to what I said above — Obama is not crippled by doubt and guilt of baby boomer pols, and he benefits nicely from Bush’s accomplishments — which are truly amazing in retrospect.

    This is why romney is a very poor candidate for us now — he is the worst possible combination of a baby boomer with vaguely conventional hawkish instincts.
    .

    • davesinsanantonio

      get behind him and push!!!

  • checkmate2012

    Can you substantiate your claim that Romney “is the worst possible combination of a baby boomer with vaguely conventional hawkish instincts”?

    I have not seen any proof of your statement and it’s Obama that is negotiating with the Taliban, not Romney.

    • septembergurl

      Romney is 65 years old, hence a baby boomer. He was born in 1946 or 1947, at the beginning of the baby boom. Are you disputing this?

      Romney’s views on a nuclear iran, on Russia and China, on Afghanistan, are vaguely hawkish, as he expressed them during the primary. His afghan policy is similar to Obama’s, ie, he would like to pull troops out ASAP but not if it means losing the gains we have made bla bla.

      “it’s Obama negotiating with the Taliban, not romney”. are you saying that negotiating with the Taliban is somehow “Hawkish”? It’s actually the opposite, isn’t it? Isn’t it appeasement? So what is your point?

      My point is that Obama, unburdened by generational angst, has co-opted the use of force previously the sole property of conservatives/Republicans.

      • checkmate2012

        it in your final sentence.

  • The_Gadfly

    but only if The Big 0 is a chicken hawk. And I expect that’s probably demeaning to chicken hawks.

    With the exception of killing Osama, there isn’t an actual military policy he has competently exercised. He may have won the battle, but he seems to be withdrawing us from all the wars before they have been properly won. That is likely to cause us even more problems in the coming years than missing Osama would have. In fact, one of the things I think escapes consideration is whether the war effort might have benefited from leaving Osama in place for a while. If we knew where he was and how he was communicating, could he have been put under surveillance and used to locate and eliminate more active components of the Al Queda entity? If not, then yes kill him straight up. Also, it might be a good thing to know exactly who in Pakistan was helping shield him. Maybe we can get/got the Pakistan info through other channels. And maybe all those questions were asked in private. But it sure isn’t evident from the public record, and except whem the LSM is covering up for him, The Big 0 seems exceptionally inept at keeping state secrets.

    Although my memory fails me at the moment, I seem to recall there was some other story bubbling to the surface that might otherwise have caused him serious problems right before he hit Osama.

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