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Obama Lied, AIPAC Died

AIPAC and other pro-Israel Democrats are at a crossroads.

By: Daniel Horowitz (Diary)  |  May 24th, 2011 at 08:06 AM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

At the AIPAC conference on Sunday, Obama continued to propagate his lies and ignorance regarding the history of U.S. foreign policy towards Israel.  Undaunted by recent criticism, Obama doubled down on his demand that Israel return to indefensible borders by creating a contiguous Palestinian state.  As such, he continued to display his ignorance of the geographical reality that a contiguous Hamas-Fatah state bordering Jordan and Egypt, as stipulated in both speeches, means a noncontiguous Israel.  I guess he can see a Palestinian state (and unicorns) from the White House.

He also regurgitated his cloddish platitude that Hamas must “accept the basic responsibilities of peace.”  I could only imagine FDR declaring that the Nazis must change their ways and accept responsibility for peace.  Moreover, Obama’s teleprompter continued to lie about the dangers of the “Arab Spring”, especially in Egypt, to Israel’s (and America’s) security.  He even castigated them by saying, “If there is a controversy, then, it’s not based in substance.”  Concurrently, he made sure to mention the names of his token liberal Jews like Rahm Emanuel, David Axelrod, and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz so that everything would appear kosher.  It was also helpful that Imam Magid, an unindicted co-conspirator with Hamas, wasn’t in attendance this time, as he was last Thursday.

As vacuous as Obama’s intellect really is, he is not that ignorant of geography, nor is he credulous enough to believe that Hamas will put away its jihadi toys some day and accept Israel.  He knows exactly what his Palestinian fantasy will bring forth; he knows precisely how Israel will appear on a map with a contiguous terror state that borders Egypt and Jordan.  Nonetheless, his speech was warmly received (at least from AIPAC’s leaders, if not some grassroots activists).  After all, AIPAC’s leader, former Obama adviser and prolific fundraiser Lee Rosenberg, admonished them to behave.

Unfortunately, AIPAC has been run by hard-core Democrats for years.  Recently, as support for Israel among Democrats has taken a nosedive, AIPAC leaders have taken it upon themselves to ensconce this inconvenient truth by providing cover for Democrats.  It’s time for AIPAC to confront the inconvenience and reveal that it is the moral and intellectual clarity of conservatism-the very ideology that they reject-that will save Israel.  Republicans should also blow the cover off the notion of bi-partisan support for Israel and expose the duplicity of AIPAC and the Democrats by proposing tough anti-PLO/Hamas legislation.

Israel has enjoyed bi-partisan support from Congress since the incipient days of its founding.  While most other nations, and all too often, our own State Department, treated Israel as a pariah state, Congress served as the defender of the tiny beacon of freedom amidst Islamic despotism.

However, as the Republican Party became distinctly conservative, and as the Democrat Party became decisively and vociferously liberal, Israel became a wedge issue between the parties.  Conservatives, with their intrepid moral clarity, intuitively support our allies in the war on terror and reject the notion that you can negotiate with terrorists to create a new Islamic state.  Liberals, with their inherent moral relativism, have bought into the notion of Israel as an “occupier” and strongly support the 18-year old failed “peace” process.  Hence, the ideological bifurcation between the parties has become glaring to everyone except for the “pro-Israel” Democrat apologists at AIPAC.

In recent years, Republican support for Israel has hovered around 80%-85%, while Democrat support dipped as low as 48% in 2010, according to Gallup.  Furthermore, as the Democrat leaders seek to make our foreign policy obsequious to the anti-Israel “international community”, conservative leaders are seeking to punish the U.N. for their mistreatment of Israel.  Unvarnished support for Israel is so universal among Republican presidential candidates that the liberal media is mocking them with the pejorative of “Israel primary”.

Ahead of Benjamin Netanyahu’s speech before Congress today, it is important to note that this is his first such speech, even though he has been here seven times since becoming Prime Minister of Israel.  Is the 7th time a charm?  Nope!  It is just the first time he is visiting since Republicans assumed control of Congress.  In fact, Congressman Louie Gohmert (R-TX) made a personal appeal to Nancy Pelosi in the well of the House to invite Netanyahu to speak before a joint session of Congress last June.  Amidst the backdrop of the Turkish terror flotilla incident, Congressman Gohmert felt that it was important for the world to see a united front from the U.S. Congress in defense of Israel.  At that time, Pelosi told Gohmert that the House was too busy for such a session.  Or, maybe she didn’t want to undercut Obama?

Needless to say, once Republicans took over the House, it didn’t take much coaxing for Speaker Boehner to take Gohmert’s advice and invite Netanyahu on his next trip to D.C.  Hence, he will be speaking on the House floor at 11AM today.

All of this has placed the ever diminutive breed of pro-Israel liberals in an awkward situation.  This confused constituency, including many Jewish members of Congress and activists from AIPAC, is confronted with the paradox of supporting those who espouse a liberal multilateral foreign policy, opposition to the Iraq war, and tepidness towards Iran, along with support for Israel.  At the 2007 AIPAC convention, Vice President Dick Cheney had blunt words for the duplicity of such a political alignment: “My friends, it is simply not consistent for anyone to demand aggressive action against the menace that is posed by the Iranian regime while at the same time acquiescing in a retreat from Iraq that would leave Israel’s best friend, the United States, dangerously weakened.”

The ascendancy of the pro-Palestinian Barack Obama as the leader of the Democrat Party has exacerbated the predicament for these Democrats. Some of the Jewish Democrats in Congress, especially the ones from New York, have responded to the new reality by offering mild criticism of Obama’s policies toward Israel.  Other radical Democrat water carriers, like Maryland Senator Ben Cardin, have toed the administration line lock, stock, and barrel.

While Democrats continue to straddle the fence on popular public sentiment toward Israel, while simultaneously refusing to do anything meaningful for Israel’s security, Republicans have been supportive of Israel with more than empty rhetoric.  Over the past few years, Republicans have introduced numerous bills and resolutions to cut funding to the PLO, place meaningful and consequential sanctions on Iran and those who do business with them (China and Russia), demand that a unilaterally declared Palestinian state not be recognized, and force the State Department to move the embassy to Israel’s real capitol, Jerusalem.

Caroline Glick, senior fellow at the Center for Security Policy,  reported last year on how AIPAC is seeking to water down or scuttle consequential Republican pro-Israel initiatives by favoring vapid Democrat resolutions which offer nothing but platitudes for Israel’s security.  Here was one example of AIPAC covering for the Democrats:

According to Congressional sources, AIPAC’s desire to hide the partisan divide has caused it to preemptively water down Republican initiatives to gain Democratic support or torpedo Republican proposals that the Democrats would oppose. For instance, an AIPAC lobbyist demanded that [GOP Rep. Louie] Gohmert abandon his efforts to advance his resolution on Iran. Sources close to the story say the AIPAC lobbyist told Gohmert that AIPAC opposes all Iran initiatives that go beyond support for sanctions.

AIPAC’s website is full of articles promoting bi-partisan bills and resolutions that are lacking teeth.  At the same time, they refuse to disseminate or advocate for any of the strong worded resolutions introduced by members of the Republican Study Committee.  They made no mention of the RSC letter demanding that Obama not recognize a Palestinian State.  When Joe Biden excoriated and insulted PM Netanyahu for building homes in his own capital (while we face record home foreclosures at home) while visiting Jerusalem, the lead article on AIPAC’s website was titled, “Biden: The U.S. has no Better Friend than Israel.”  Moreover, AIPAC still has nothing to say about Obama’s Neville Chamberlain speech last Thursday.  I guess we can’t blame them.

Undoubtedly, it is in AIPAC’s best interest to conceal Democrats’ tepid and hypocritical views on Israel, the broader Middle East, and the GWOT.  Any lobbying organization will be more effective if they project a faux aura of bi-partisan support, even at the expense of their underlying agenda and ideology.  Just ask the NRA. However, it is not in our best interests for an organization that is perceived to be a leader on anti-terror policies, to use their political clout to vitiate meaningful anti-terror initiatives.  It is certainly not in our best interests for AIPAC to lobby Republicans to support the very disastrous policies that have triggered the current security peril in the Middle East, as they have done with the Oslo Accords and the 2005 Gaza pullout.

AIPAC’s quest for bi-partisan support might be good for AIPAC, but it is not in Israel’s best interest, and more importantly, not in our best interest.

It’s time for AIPAC to confront the new reality and support consequential pro-Israel, anti-terror initiatives-even if they come from those hated Republicans.  It’s time for pro-Israel liberals to confront their own ideological dissonance and be intellectually honest about the perils of their political alignment to the security of America and Israel.  It is a waste of time to placate the Obama administration.

AIPAC and likeminded organizations will have the opportunity to demonstrate their true support for national and international security when Senator Orin Hatch introduces a resolution which defends Israel’s territorial integrity.  On the House side, Congressman Louie Gohmert will be reintroducing his resolution expressing the sense of the House to support an Israeli preemptive strike on Iranian nuclear sites.  The vapid sanctions have not worked and it’s time for AIPAC to realize it.

It’s a time for choosing for many of the old Scoop Jackson Democrats.  They are either with America and Israel, or they are with Obama and Hamas.

Regarding AIPAC and pro-Israel liberals, this verse from Kings comes to mind: “And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD [be] God, follow him: but if Baal, [then] follow him.”

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  • http://www.scragged.com petrarch

    will be that Democrats no longer pretend to support Israel. I guess it’s worthwhile for the sake of clarity though.

    The real choice will be for ordinary American Jewish people: will they change their voting habits on Israel’s behalf?

    • http://redmeatconservative.blogspot.com/ Daniel Horowitz

      I don’t think so, especially if the GOP nominates a real conservative. If they choose a McCain type then maybe he could shave off 5-10% from Obama, but not more.

    • msctex

      seemingly logical, seemingly reasonable, and only right to assume that American Jews would support Israel.

      They don’t. Not nearly to the degree one might assume. Israel has more real support in an average Southern town than almost anywhere on the East Coast. And trying to decide why that is opens up a Pandora’s Box of issues that might “sound” anti-Semetic, but are in fact just the very aspects of the modern American Jew which lead them to not support their ostensible homeland.

      Perhaps foremost, I would factor in a visceral distain for real conflict of any kind. You can of course provide a hundred examples to the contrary, but in an overall sense of a collective group of people, I think this aspect of their culture weighs heavy. Also, they tend to find a way to blame themselves for things which are not their fault.

      • YnotNOW

        why many American Jews have tepid support for Israel, is that they are tepid Jews. They are Jewish by heritage and cultural identity, but not by real belief and religious practice.
        That is not universally true, of course, but is a part of it.

  • gpclaw

    What deal did the Palestinians strike with SEIU, in order to get Obama to act as the Palestinian chief negotiator?

    I finally figured Obama out. His entire career has been rooted in class warfare, and those he perceives as discriminated against. Consider the left definition of racism. – those with power disenfranchising those with out power. Under this world view, any action by the “oppressed” group is justified, no matter how militant, because they are fighting those with power.

    Now apply this world view to the the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The leftist perceives the Israeli’s as the group with all the power. Because they have the power, any conflict between the two sides must be their fault. Any violent acts of terrorism committed by the Palestinians is justified, because they are fighting their “oppressor”, while any actions by the Israelis to defend themselves, to the leftist, must be based in racism and hate.

    • mspector

      You’re right and it’s something I’ve been saying for a while now. At bottom, Obama is an unreconstructed Alinskyite, and the core of Alinsky’s “philosophy” is the notion that the organizer always looks for “have nots” to support against the “haves”. Overlay that with Obama’s innate sympathy for the radical Islamic agenda and you have a mix that is more than toxic for Israel.

      No, the “Palestinians” do not have a state. Then again, they never did other than the states they were refugees from. Their leadership today is not interested in a state but only in the destruction of Israel: if forming a “Palestinian” state will advance that cause, well and good. If they can do it without a state, that’s fine too. So of course Israel must stand strong. This is something Obama can never understand.

  • Tbone

    during WWll.

    • rudyardkipling

      I am an American, but I have lived in Israel through several wars and multiple terrorist bombings.

      When I lived on the border with Lebanon, a Hezbollah Ktushah rocket fell through my next-door neighbor’s roof.

      What I’m trying to say is, I get it.

      But while I disagree strongly with Obama’s foreign policy (as do my Israeli relatives), the implication that my relatives who voted for Obama are Nazi collaborators is offensive.

      • Tbone

        However, I didn’t say your relatives are Nazi collaborators. Further, I said “votes” not “voted”. Try to understand the concept of verb tenses.

        So, to make it very clear for you, any Jew who having seen how Obama and his Democrats are selling out Israel and, despite that observation, votes for him in 2012, have the same character as those who held the door to the showers for their fellow Jews in the Concentration Camp, in my opinion.

        So, if your relatives vote for Obama in 2012, I will consider them Jew killing Jews. Please pass along my sentiments to them if you think it may raise the level of cognizance from out their rear ends.

        • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister
          • Tbone

            Shame on you for trying to repress me. LOL

        • rudyardkipling

          I’m a daily reader, so I know you’re a daily commenter TBone, but when you throw in taunts like ‘try to understand the concept of verb tenses’ you sound like an angry teenager, not like a rational adult with good points to make.

          So we have a difference of a opinion, and perhaps I misunderstood you; I didn’t get personal and I often wonder if you’re more concerned about nursing your bruised feelings than attempting to persuade someone who is actually open to being convinced.

          I’d pass along your sentiments to my relatives, but I’m not sure your ‘argument’ would persuade them. Instead I’ll make a compelling case based on facts on the ground (where I used to live), without questioning their loyalty.

          (You catch more flies with honey b/t/w…)

    • aesthete

      What a measured, apt, accurate and tasteful comparison. Glad you stuck with the high road on that one, [].

      • Tbone

        That’s why I made it really simple.

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

      More than a bridge too far.

      You know the Contact Page drill.

  • olliek

    By electing Obama (or worse, re-electing him) America’s Reformed Jews are betraying Israel over their stronger support of the religion of Progressivism. Jews really have no business being liberal, yet most unthinkingly worship at the altar of Marxism, possibly because they have done so for generations and Reformed rabbis feed them the false line that good Jews should be progressives. How could promoting the destruction of Israel and the advancement of Islam and Shariah law possibly be helpful to Jews? This is what happens when intelligent people allow themselves to be ruled by emotions and political correctness instead of rational analysis.

    • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

      As a Catholic, let me tell you, there are plenty of Catholic priests and even bishops who try to “guilt” their flocks into supporting liberal policies. One of the reasons that burns me up so much is that it sows a general cynicism amongst Catholics about anything the priests and bishops say. Then, when the clergy tries to convey genuine Church teaching on matters of actual doctrine, those in the pews just blithely dismiss those statements as well. It’s like the boy who cried wolf. Many Catholics have gotten cynical — and this is really corrosive, to the Church itself, and to the moral causes, such as the pro-life struggle, that the Church really needs to stand united on if we are ever to impact the culture in the way we need to.

  • http://www.FranBaker.com frankieb

    Is the independents. They mirror the Democrats’ lower support, which surprises me. (Maybe it shouldn’t surprise, but it does.)

    • YnotNOW

      is that Independents are more likely to be squishy-middle because they have not taken the time or intellectual effort to actually understand the issues and take a side. Therefore, they are prone to believe the sound-bite “moral equivalency” tripe they hear on the TV news.

      Following the MSM – no wonder they correlate to the Democrats on many issues.

  • libertyfreedom

    Should Israel just annex the West Bank and Gaza? In my opinion, something like that would be very corrosive to their democracy.

    • YnotNOW

      There is a HUGE middle ground between the ’67 borders and 100% of west bank & Gaza & Golan. Israel needs defensible borders, because they are under constant attack – that’s the very first criteria.

      • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

        ALL of Judea and ALL of Samaria rightly belong to the Jewish people, in my opinion. They’re extraordinarily generous (or maybe it just shows how desperately hungry they are for peace) to always be offering to give up parts of these areas to the Palestinians.

        And I’m not even Jewish, but I cannot bear to even look at most pictures of Jerusalem because I cannot stand the sight of that #$&*!@! dome sitting blasphemously on the ruins of the Temple. I admire beyond words the patience and forbearance of the Jewish people. I’d go crazy having to look at that @#$$%&! thing every day!

        • YnotNOW

          In that, the “Palestinian territories” have such a large population that is antithetical to Israel being a Jewish nation, that to annex the land would dilute the voting population way beyond what they could maintain a Jewish identity, unless they whole-sale evicted a few million people.

          More practical to just keep that land out of Israel, and let Fatah / Hamas have it.

          • YnotNOW
  • mitchsf

    membership. Understood that they must be careful not to align with one political party, but they do not seem to understand their delusion regarding this administration.

    • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

      I switched my support to the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA), http://www.zoa.org/
      I enthusiastically recommend them. They are wonderful. No nonsense, no compromise, no betrayals in defense of Israel.

  • seedeevee

    Since when is it the duty of a patriotic American to support a bunch of anti-democratic racists (Zionists) halfway across the world?

    I can not understand why so many Americans can support a regime that only causes problems for us. Can anyone here give a list of positive things that Israel has done for the United States?

    Remember the USS Liberty!

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

      I hate Nazis.

      • Bill S
  • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

    The late Israeli prime minister Golda Meir famously said, “Peace will come to the Middle East when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us.”

    I would contend that Israel’s support from America will be secure when American Jews love their own people more than they hate Republicans.

    • http://redmeatconservative.blogspot.com/ Daniel Horowitz

      I think Caroline Glick once said something like that. Jews need to care about Israel as much as they do about abortion.

      • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander
        • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

          But, ironically, Jewish women have abortions at a lower rate than American women in general — and I think I read that (even more ironically!), they actually have lower abortion rates than self-described Christian women!!

          So whence the mania for “abortion rights”? Especially given the whole slippery slope to euthanasia, Planned Parenthood’s historic eugenics advocacy, etc. I have never understood this.

  • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

    …because so much of the kneejerk loyalty to the Democrats by so many American Jews comes from their phobia of the “Religious Right.” Conservative evangelical Christians are the largest, most generous, most loyal bloc of pro-Israel supporters in America — but they’re feared and loathed because they want to protect the sanctity of marriage as God instituted it (see Genesis 1!) and to protect babies in the womb from being sacrificed on the altars of Ba’al!

    • taylerdog23

      If you are saying that Jews’ general loyalty to Democrats is because of the “Religious Right’s” desire to protect the sanctity of marriage and oppose abortion, you have zero idea what are talking about, with all due respect.

      I’m conservative, but the reason I and many of my fellow Jews are leery of the “Religious Right” is because the “Religious Right” (I’m assuming you are part of the “Religious Right,” but correct me if I’m wrong) seems to only be interested in being pro-Israel because it fulfills a prophecy you have about your Jesus coming down from heaven to Jerusalem and rapturing the Christians. This is a great thing for you as a Christian because you believe that then you get to go to Heaven, but for me and my fellow Jews, it ain’t a great deal because in your version of events we (Jews) get massacred and the streets run with our blood.

      I have lived in Jerusalem and have seen hundreds of evangelical Christians arrive singing the praises of the Jewish people, so I know from whence I speak. I hope you can understand that many of my fellow Jews do not regard the “Religious Right’s” support of Israel and the Jewish people as exactly genuine when the end game for you is that the world ends with you going to heaven and we Jews getting massacred. We very much appreciate your money and your support, but we understand that you have very different motives than we do and Jews in general will continue to view Christians with some modicum of suspicion in light of your end-of-world beliefs. It’s just the way it is. I’m sure if our roles were reversed you could understand where I’m coming from.

      I certainly respect your right to your beliefs and am not trying to denigrate them, but I hope that you can see that this is not as simple as you may think.

      • morostheos

        you don’t get it either. Christians aren’t pro-Israel because of our end time beliefs. We’re pro-Israel because we know that God told Abraham in Gen 12:3 that He will ‘bless those that bless you, and curse him that curses you’. We also know that God promised the land to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and their descendants (Gen 17:8) and God keeps His promises.

        It’s true that our end beliefs indicate bad times ahead for Israel (and, indeed the world) but nothing about those beliefs mean we are happy or excited about it. Quite the contrary, we expect it to be horrible which is why we do want to ‘convert’ you so that you can avoid it (and it’s not a secret). We want you to see that the Messiah you have been waiting for has already been here and He’s coming back.

        I don’t expect any of this to change your mind about Jesus but I hope it changes your perspective on why Christians support Israel.

        (and for the record, no, I wasn’t expecting anything to happen on Saturday, nor do I expect anything to happen on whatever the new date that false prophet has thrown out now.)

        • morostheos

          It was a bit presumputious for me to categorically state that Christians generically support Israel for the reasons I stated so I’ll amend that to say that for me and the Christians I know that is the theological reason. And, as others have noted below, there’s good political reasons too.

      • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

        1) You don’t know heartlander at all, nor have you bother to read what she’s written here at RedState, so you’re just making a fool of yourself to presume what her religious affiliation and theological convictions are. Make that, a bigoted fool.

        2) You’re also ignorant of the theological convictions of most Christian supporters of Israel, lumping them all together under a fringe theology and labeling them all as the “Religious Right”.

        3) In my observation, it is Orthodox Jews, who are secure in their faith and whose social values match those of conservative Christians, who have no problem working with evangelicals/conservative Christians on a common defense of Israel while disagreeing regarding Jesus.

        Whereas it are the liberal and progressive Jews, many of whom are secular, who are the ones raising the scarecrow of the “Religious Right” and an eschatological strawman precisely because they value their liberal political and social views as more important than supporting Israel.

        And who therefore have a vested interest in finding ways to alienate Jews from conservatives and Republicans by libeling them as Jew haters. Which behind the hyperbole of Christians reveling in Jewish blood is what you’re essentially saying above about evangelicals and the “Religious Right” – that they’re Jew haters.

        3) Which boils down to your ending up supporting avowed haters of Israel by word and deed who support its enemies and rejecting support from those Christians who actively support Israel because of your obsessive fear of that fringe view concerning “end times”.

        It’s past time you took more concern about the monotonically increasing hostility of progressives and Democrats towards Israel demonstrated by their actions as opposed to 30-year-old parodies of Christian supporters of Israel.

        Actions matter. Wake up and smell the coffee.

        • http://redmeatconservative.blogspot.com/ Daniel Horowitz

          These people will continue to diss conservative Christians even as anti-Semitism balloons to dangerous levels on the left. Frankly, it is only because of the Christian conservatives that America is set apart from Europe in its ideological disputation. It is for this reason alone that America has a fraction of the anti-Semitism of Europe.

          Europe is a progressive hell that is dangerously ripe for another Holocaust. No, they won’t incite anything there, but they will ensure that the Jews in Israel are left defenseless and open to an Arab genocide. Unlike in America, Europe doesn’t have a Rush Limbaugh to get on the airwaves 5 minutes after the leader of the country trashed Israel and totally rebut everything that was said. Liberal Jews owe people like Rush a much bigger debt of gratitude than they will ever realize.

        • taylerdog23

          because I believe that calling someone you don’t know a “bigoted fool” for something they wrote on a political blog is about the douchiest thing one can do, I’m not going to even bother dignifying your reply with a detailed response.

          But out of respect for RS and my hope that you aren’t in fact an insufferable db, I’ll kindly point you to my reply to heartlander’s gracious post below. Hopefully you’ll find it at least moderately helpful.

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

            …but your comment pushed one too many buttons that led to my uncharacteristically engaging in ad hominem rather than focus on the content of your comment.

            In particular the combination of your uncritically parroting a 30+-year malicious meme and your treatment of heartlander in subjecting her to an auto da f? pushed me over the edge.

            After looking over your comment history, though, I will retract my insult. I can see that I am dealing with a generational issue, in which your (and your peers) have unquestioningly accepted one of a number of slanders that the secular left has used for many years to keep the Jewish community on the Democrat/progressive plantation by feeding into stereotype and drawing caricatures to reinforce historical suspicion against conservatives and Republicans and Christians, especially when the three coincide.

            One to which I am particularly sensitized to having heard this meme (and various other ones) for many years and seeing their impact on my family members and acquaintances.

            And the particular narrative that you have bought into is particularly noxious as it endeavors to tar conservative Christians (labeled as the now mythical “Religious Right”) with the brush that Christians only support Israel because they really want to see Jews slaughtered in line with some end-times schema, essentially accusing them of wanting to finish Hitler’s work.

            I hope the other commenters here have shown you that this particular eschatology is certainly in the present era a fringe view (at most) among the substantial numbers of Christians who are friends of Israel.

            The malignant consequence is that this canard drives Jewish people away from their friends on the right into the hands of a left that is increasing embracing lethal views towards Israel. A left that at root is hostile to traditional Jewish values.

            So instead of my reacting with anger, let me instead express the hope that you will take a more charitable position towards Christian allies as a result of the whole of this thread. And perhaps take a more critical look at other assumptions that you may not have been aware of or thought to question.

          • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

            …for coming to my defense. You are a sweetheart.

            And you are famous for living up to your name, so, as you indicated, to get you to be anything less than civil, takes some doing. This shows me what an incredibly deep nerve taylerdog has hit not only with you but with virtually everyone else on this thread. I am glad to hear that his view does not represent the majority.

            However, to the extent that he is describing a mindset that really does exist among many Jews, I want to know about it — because (again) I am so sheltered — though I grew up in big cities with large Jewish (and liberal) populations, in my current neck of the woods, there aren’t a whole bunch of liberals and hardly any Jews. I want to know what people are thinking. The fact that evidently there are many liberal Jews who do think the way taylerdog describes absolutely breaks my heart. But it tells me what one of the tasks in front of us is. It also helps to explain a phenomenon that has puzzled me for many years — although I suspect that the greater factor is simply the long, long, horrible history of persecution of Jews by Christians. I mean, the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox churches have been split and unreconciled for nearly a thousand years, mostly because of one historical event — the Crusaders’ pillage of Constantinople — and they have not been able to clear out the rancor and suspicion — and they are fellow Christians!!! When you think about the history between Christians and Jews, it’s amazing that we’ve made as much progress as we have — and really, in a pretty short period of time — and I chalk it all up to the overflowing grace of God.

            Obviously, we still have a long way to go.

          • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

            One other thing, civil. You totally hit the nail on the head with this great phrase:

            A left that at root is hostile to traditional Jewish values.

            Traditional Jewish values are traditional moral values, period. I believe it was Freud, of all people, in an essay he once wrote about the roots of anti-semitism, who said that the underlying cause of Jew-hatred was Judaism-hatred, i.e., the idea that, because there is a real, living God, there is a real, absolute moral code; there is real, objective good and evil.

            Freud felt that the European peoples, and particularly the Germanic peoples, had never really been converted from their paganism, that their Christianity was like a veneer over an underlying and unacknowledged paganism in their souls — that Europeans were never really entirely converted to Christianity, i.e., never really entirely converted to the God of the Bible, who most definitively is a JEWISH God, and whose signal characteristic that makes Him different from all the pagan Gods is that He is a MORAL God. Freud felt that deep down, in their heart-of-hearts, Europeans — or at least, the German peoples, whom he knew so well — never fully accepted, never did quit rebelling against, that God, and that moral code. Since they couldn’t consciously admit that to themselves, they did what all repressers do, they projected onto a scapegoat — and of course, who better to scapegoat than the very people who were walking, talking, in-the-flesh, constant reminders of that Biblical God and His very real covenant with them (a covenant that, by the way, and differently from the pagan cultures, included a moral code).

            Normally, I’m skeptical of Freud, but on this topic, I think he was extraordinarily insightful.

            Which brings us back to your line I started this comment with. The Left is hostile to Israel because it is hostile to the Jews; hostile to the Jews because hostile to Judaism; hostile to Judaism because hostile to absolute, objective moral values. This is why you see — as Daniel Horowitz somewhere in this long thread referenced Caroline Glick as saying — the phenomenon of liberal Jews who seem to care more about abortion than they do about the fate of Israel.

            They go hand in hand. Either you believe that some things are objectively, absolutely evil — killing a baby, suicide-bombing, lying and cheating and dissembling under the cover of “peace” rhetoric in order to disguise your true objective of pushing the Jews into the sea, etc., etc., etc. — or you don’t.

          • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

            One other thing, civil. You totally hit the nail on the head with this great phrase:

            A left that at root is hostile to traditional Jewish values.

            Traditional Jewish values are traditional moral values, period. I believe it was Freud, of all people, in an essay he once wrote about the roots of anti-semitism, who said that the underlying cause of Jew-hatred was Judaism-hatred, i.e., the idea that, because there is a real, living God, there is a real, absolute moral code; there is real, objective good and evil.

            Freud felt that the European peoples, and particularly the Germanic peoples, had never really been converted from their paganism, that their Christianity was like a veneer over an underlying and unacknowledged paganism in their souls — that Europeans were never really entirely converted to Christianity, i.e., never really entirely converted to the God of the Bible, who most definitively is a JEWISH God, and whose signal characteristic that makes Him different from all the pagan Gods is that He is a MORAL God. Freud felt that deep down, in their heart-of-hearts, Europeans — or at least, the German peoples, whom he knew so well — never fully accepted, never did quit rebelling against, that God, and that moral code. Since they couldn’t consciously admit that to themselves, they did what all repressers do, they projected onto a scapegoat — and of course, who better to scapegoat than the very people who were walking, talking, in-the-flesh, constant reminders of that Biblical God and His very real covenant with them (a covenant that, by the way, and differently from the pagan cultures, included a moral code).

            Normally, I’m skeptical of Freud, but on this topic, I think he was extraordinarily insightful.

            Which brings us back to your line I started this comment with. The Left is hostile to Israel because it is hostile to the Jews; hostile to the Jews because hostile to Judaism; hostile to Judaism because hostile to absolute, objective moral values. This is why you see — as Daniel Horowitz somewhere in this long thread referenced Caroline Glick as saying — the phenomenon of liberal Jews who seem to care more about abortion than they do about the fate of Israel.

            They go hand in hand. Either you believe that some things are objectively, absolutely evil — killing a baby, suicide-bombing, lying and cheating and dissembling under the cover of “peace” rhetoric in order to disguise your true objective of pushing the Jews into the sea, etc., etc., etc. — or you don’t.

            The Left does not believe there is such a thing as objective good and evil — so it’s no surprise that people who are too delusional to see that killing a baby is wrong are much, much too delusional to see that duplicitous snakes such as Mahmoud Abbas can never be trusted and have zero interest in peace.

      • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

        I guess I am very sheltered. I had no idea there were Christians who envision a massacre of Jews as part of God’s plan. AAAUUGGHHH! No wonder you’re suspicious of the Religious Right!!! I know there are lots of folks who believe in “the Rapture” — but I didn’t know it involved what you described. How very disturbing, to say the least.

        I’m Catholic, and have no use for John Hagee, “Left Behind” and all the “rapture” stuff. Because “rapture theology” is a recent innovation (only dates back to some time in the 1800s), I’ve always regarded it as heresy, and although I embrace my fellow Christians — especially as allies in the pro-life struggle — I don’t trust people like Tim LaHaye in theological matters. Consequently, I’ve never had any interest in exploring the details of their theology — so I was unaware that what you described was part of it. I hope you’re mistaken.

        And I’m sorry for my assumptions and generalizations. I apologize for writing rashly. I’ve been in the anti-abortion movement since I was a teenager in the ’70s, and sometimes I let frustration get the better of me. I should never let bitterness into my heart, where it can hurt myself and others. In this case, it led me to make generalizations when I didn’t even know I was missing what sounds like a big piece of the puzzle.

        Thank you for explaining it to me. I salute you for being as civil as you were in your rebuke! I don’t know if I would have been so temperate if I were in your shoes.

        For what it’s worth, speaking just for myself, I want you to know that I love Israel because it is the Jewish homeland. Period. God gave it to the Jews, so it’s theirs. Justice, reason and history all make it clear. I have always felt instinctively that Israel and the U.S. are “sister countries.” Both nations are committed to freedom, justice, human rights, and the ideal of human beings reaching their full potential, as creatures with innate and inviolable dignity.

        That’s just my feelings about Israel. My feelings for Judaism are a whole different matter, that I could go on and on about for days. As a Catholic, my resonance with Judaism runs very, very deep. At every Mass, there are prayers said that are very, very close versions of Jewish prayers that go back thousands of years, to centuries before Jesus came. I treasure the Jewish roots of my faith, and marvel at God’s munificence in “grafting” me into the line of Abraham. As Pope John Paul II said, we Catholics consider Jews our “elder brothers.”

        I wish you shalom.

        • Doc Holliday

          if he is a believing Jew, he would know that the rapture will not happen. So why would he care if people supported Israel hoping for something that will not happen? Secondly, if he is a nut that thinks Israel will stand until God destroys them, then why would he think Christians believe they need to protect Israel until that time? If God says Israel will stand until the rapture, what say do we have about it?

          I think we are going down a rat hole here, there is nothing to see. From my minimal understanding of the subject, a majority of Jews are Democrats over the civil rights battles of the 1960s and the fact that they mostly live in urban, liberal environments.

          • taylerdog23

            As I note in my reply to heartlander, I do not in fact care about people believing the Rapture will happen. I do not believe in it, so I don’t care what other people think. It doesn’t threaten me.

            You apparently missed my entire point, which was to share some personal insight on why some Jews are leery of some Christians. That’s all. It was not an “argument,” but rather a sharing of experience.

            Hope you understand better now. Thanks.

        • http://redmeatconservative.blogspot.com/ Daniel Horowitz

          Great points y’all. The smearing of Christian conservatives is getting old at this point. Just like Rush gets seminar callers, we get seminar bloggers who like to say how conservative they are, but then proceed to disagree with any basic tenet of conservatism.

          The bottom line is that anybody who fails to see the moral clarity of the conservative ideology as it relates to the Middle East, is totally ignorant of the geopolitical scene. The main reason why America is diametrically opposed to Europe’s position on Israel is the same reason why American is so divergent from Europe on virtually every domestic issue; the inherent conservative nature of the American people/

          • taylerdog23

            You think i’m smearing Christian conservatives? Far from it. I have many, many close friends who are Christian conservatives and I consider them wonderful people.

            Unlike you (as you have demonstrated above), I do not lump people into categories (see e.g. “seminar bloggers”) just because they dare to disagree with me.

            Please kindly show me where I have disagreed with any basic tenet of conservatism.

            Finally, I feel the need to point out that you’re not the only conservative Jew here and your position does not necessarily represent what politically conservative Jews do or should believe. I respect your place here on RS as a Jewish conservative voice and I’m not in any way denigrating you or your opinions, but I think anyone who has spent a great deal of time living in Israel, as I have, has a slightly different perspective on Israel than American Jews who only do visit a few times for a matter of a few weeks do (I have no idea of your experience with Israel and am not directing this comment at you).

            Thanks.

          • http://redmeatconservative.blogspot.com/ Daniel Horowitz

            talking about you in particular. It’s just that there are too many people promulgating this fallacious fantasy about Christian support for Israel being tied to Jews going to hell. Their support for Israel is born out of the moral clarity that is the hallmark of the conservative ideology.

        • taylerdog23

          I really appreciate your reply and please know I was not trying to “rebuke” you or anything like that. As you clearly understand (unlike some of the others who have commented here) I was merely trying to point out why some Jews are leery of the “Religious Right.” And to be clear, I used RR in quotes just as you had because I *do not* in fact feel that all evangelical or conservative Christians can be easily lumped into a convenient category.

          And I don’t have a problem at all with evangelicals or other Christians believing in the rapture or that Jews will ultimately be massacred in the End Times. I don’t believe in it, so it doesn’t threaten me one way or another. I simply was pointing out that Jews and Christians oftentimes have very different (and sometimes conflicting) motives for supporting Israel.

          As for your apology, I will absolutely not accept it because you have nothing to apologize for. I personally do not think you acted “rashly,” but rather just communicated what you were feeling and thinking at the time.

          Your response above is a testament to your reasonableness and I can only assume what a good person you are. I hope that others here (myself included) can be so graceful in our dialogue.

          Thanks again and have a great day. :)

      • rightwingmom52

        For the record, I am a Christian, but I support Israel because, as D. Horowitz so eloquently stated, it is that “tiny beacon of freedom amidst Islamic despotism.” A democracy in the middle of oppression and terrorism. My beliefs do not include the “rapture” or the “left behind” or “premillennialism” views.

        It is no secret that Christians hope to convert the world, and my prayers are for all men: Jew, Gentile, American, even Palestinian, for I Tim 2: 1-6 states “I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, be made for all men; for kings and all that are in high place; that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and gravity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all; the testimony to be borne in its own times;”

      • aesthete

        Only a part of that has to do with evangelicals, and even among evangelicals the reason for supporting Israel has little to do with eschatology.

        Israel was in many ways the offspring of the Holocaust. Support for Israel was thus across the board in the US: Jews were by that point generally integrated, and the horrors of the Holocaust were just being made clear. The anti-Semites in the US, while present, generally couldn’t dispute such evidence. In most cases, the anti-Semites in question were not so biased as to agree with the Final Solution, either. This, as well as the general tale of bravery in the face of adversity that was the story of Israel in 1948, was naturally appealing to Americans, who have always rooted for the underdog. Truman’s early recognition set the tone for US-Israel relations both on a national and an individual level.

        There’s some cultural affinity: Israelis have an active and functional army, a democratic republic with broadly capitalist features, and are culturally the heirs of the West in almost every way: the contrast between the Palestinians and Israelis is stark. A “to the victor go the spoils” attitude among conservatives, lack of moral relativism, and opposition to the ideas of Marxists regarding neo-colonialism make conservatives much more receptive to the Israeli moral case than to that of the Palestinians.

        Many of the later conservative/libertarian reformers such as WFB and his crew felt it necessary to purge conservatism of its less desireable elements such as racists and Birchers. Israel’s status as a western bloc country and a democratic state in a region with various unstable client states of the West and the USSR made it an easy litmus test: it was a no-brainer to support Israel both from a pragmatic and a moral point of view in the context of the Cold War, and it was a good way to push back against anti-Communist anti-Semites.

        Later associations of Jews with capitalism. While both pro- and anti- capitalist propaganda targeted Jews, eventually the USSR’s policies wrt the Jews and the rising income level of Jews in the US and Israel shifted the stereotype to the bourgeois Jew, or the Jewish banker in cahoots with big business. The left thus became much more anti-Semitic, and the capitalist right less so in defense of a stereotype that was seen as either confirmation or repudiation of capitalist values, depending on the ideological makeup of the person talking about the stereotype.

        The GWoT. Enough said.

        I won’t doubt your personal experiences, but as a former evangelical turned Pentecostal Christian, I have encountered wild enthusiasm for the state of Israel among serious Christians but absolutely none for the notion that Israel will suffer in the End Times. Suffering during the End Times is generally seen as a tragic and somber end to a fallen world by Christians, not something to get excited about.

        • taylerdog23

          Much appreciated perspective.

          To clarify, I was not saying (or at least intending) to say that the only reason Evangelicals support Israel is because of eschatology. Was just noting that the eschatological views of some Christians make Jews question the authenticity of their enthusiasm for Israel.

          And I certainly don’t think that Christians that do believe in the Rapture are enthused about what they believe will be the slaughter of millions of non-believers. But at the same time, it’s a package deal, the good with the bad, and I suspect that many Christians are much more enthused about the Rapture and going to heaven than they are concerned about the collateral damage that will ensue under the narrative they believe in.

          Again, thx for the response and have a good one.

      • Doc Holliday

        conservatives support Israel because it is a bastion of freedom in a land of tyranny. We support Israel because we support all nations that promote liberty and the right of a man to make his own way in life. We also support Israel because the world has shown the Jews deserve a homeland, since much of the world has assailed them at certain times in history.

        I think you should stop looking for bogeymen and realize Conservatives support Israel and most “progressives” do not. Most progressives attack Israel for the most banal of reasons, because progressives hate anyone Americans like. When we were down on the French, they loved Chirac, they love Chavez, Castro, and they support a Palestine that reaches the Med.

        Like I said, you need to wake up and stop seeing evil everywhere. That IS the reason so many Jews are liberal. They keep thinking there is some conspiracy. It is ironic, because the left thinks the Jews are a conspiracy.

      • MF

        Taylerdog23, I am sicked that many Christians believe what you have said. They are so misled. I am very much a Christian, but I do not have such a view at all. My take, after some outstanding teaching by many Christians who have a HEBRAIC viewpoint and not a Greek mindset, is that the eyes of all Jews will be opened to (what I believe is) the truth of Jesus (or more accurately, Yeshua, his original, Hebrew name). It’s not my place to state that if one doesn’t accept Jesus by saying some sinner’s prayer, that he or she will be going to hell. First, how presumptuous of me to state that anyone else is or is not right with God? Second, how am I to know – maybe when a Jew dies, God examines that Jew’s heart and sees someone who truly loved and served God to the best of his or her ability, so Jesus reveals the truth of who he is, and that Jew believes and joins Him in heaven. Remember, a Jew has a relationship with God, it’s just not through Jesus. Any other religion, it’s not the same God. No, my place is to serve God to the best of my ability, and to encourage others to know Him and do their best as well.

        Oh, and no, I’m not a member of Jews for Jesus or anything like that. And the rapture crowd and the Tim LaHaye books are way off base. And Rick Warren is so far off base that it makes me physically ill. I also do not accept the concept of “once saved, always saved.” We need to continually examine our hearts and make ourselves right with God. How different is that from the observant Jew?

        And finally, we (Christians) are grafted into the family of God *through* the Jewish tree. Without the Jew, we have nothing. How arrogant of so many Christians to believe that Jews who haven’t said a sinner’s prayer aren’t going to be with God in heaven?

        BTW, if anyone isn’t aware of ACT! For America, there is a group, headed by Brigitte Gabriel, who are doing everything they can to combat the Islamic takeover and to support America and Israel. If you’re not involved with them, you should be! (I’m just an active supporter, nothing more.)

        There, did I offend everyone in the process? :-)

        • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

          I agree with everything you said.

          In fact, I take it even further. I believe that everyone comes face to face with Jesus when they die. Since, as the Bible says, God IS Love, any human being — Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, atheist, whatever — who still has the tiniest spark of LOVE left in their heart when they die, will recognize Jesus, who IS Love, when they see him to face. The others — those who have not a trace of love or even the desire for love — don’t recognize him or actively turn away from him.

          The Bible is not only written by God, but it records history, and history itself is “written” by God. I believe God arranged that triptych on Golgotha for a reason. There is/was a dying sinner on either side of Jesus. One somehow recognized Jesus for who he was. Remember? He said, “This man is totally innocent [good]” and then, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” And Jesus promised him eternal life with Him. The other sinner scoffed at Jesus and rejected him; he had no use for innocence/goodness/Love.

          God gives no less of a choice to each and every dying sinner. He does not “send” anyone to damnation; anyone in hell has chosen it themselves.

          Sorry for getting off-topic, but had to share!

    • rudyardkipling

      Also because of a perception by many American Jews (rightly or wrongly), that the ‘Religious Right’ secretly wants to convert them to Christianity.

      • rudyardkipling

        Sorry for the repetition.

        • taylerdog23

          nt.

      • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

        Christians of all denominations would like all people to be Christians.

        SO WHAT?

      • mitchsf

        We are (were) Democrats simply because that was the party that aligned itself with immigrants.

        Unfortunately, the party has changed as the world has changed, but many of us, especially older Jews, have not changed. I was brought up to be a Democrat, voted Democrat, but registered as an Independent, always aware that my belief system was not aligned with Democrats. September 11th gave me the opportunity for introspection, and shortly thereafter I moved Right and Republican. Most of my family has followed. We have to keep working to educate ourselves so we can educate them.

        I hope and believe that time and demographics are with us. Young people will move right as they enter the workforce, and elders who entered through Ellis Island won’t be voting much longer.

        • taylerdog23

          My family was somewhat the same way in terms of political shift post 9/11 and alliance with the Democrats because of immigration.

          It will certainly be interesting to see how young folks move politically (I am one of them, a 20-something), but I have noticed that the longer my family and friends spend in Israel, the more likely they are to identify with the Dems in terms of tempered support for Israel. Don’t know if you have seen this as well, but a lot of Jews in Israel I know are getting weary of the status quo and some of the more hawkish “Pro-Israel” positions they are hearing being advocated by Americans (regardless of political stripe) strike them as naive, given the demographic realities of the situation on the ground in Israel and the territories. It will be interesting to see how it all progresses.

          Shalom uv’racha!

          • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

            …that the more time people spend in Israel, the more likely they are to identify with the Democrats?!?!

            I had no idea. You’re right, that is very, very interesting.

    • http://redmeatconservative.blogspot.com/ Daniel Horowitz

      How apropos that the timely words of Elijah were spoken in Samaria, the heartland of Israel-the land that the left wants to turn into a murderous Hamas hell hole.

      • taylerdog23

        I have to call you out on this.

        As has been noted by you and others on this thread (I think we all agree on this), many of our fellow American Jews are Dems and identify with the Left. We disagree with them and that’s fair in a free society.

        But let me see if I understand your reply here–you made the statement above that the left wants to turn Samaria, “into a murderous Hamas hell hole.”

        Here’s the deal–we agree that many American Jews are on the left (this includes at least 3 of my family members who also happen to be survivors of The Shoah and mitchsf also correctly notes above that many older Jews are still on the left)–are you seriously saying that these Jews on the left (you didn’t qualify who you mean by the “left”) want to see other Jews get murdered? If that is indeed what you are saying, then you are saying that my great grandparents, survivors of the Holocaust, want to see Jews in Israel murdered.

        It’s one thing to have political disagreements with someone and quite another to be implying (or outrightly saying) that our fellow Jewish brethren and beloved elders that disagree with you on Israel are intent on the destruction of Jews.

        As a fellow Jew, I could not let this one go by. Maybe it was a comment you typed in haste without thought for the logical implications of your rhetoric. Please clarify if you don’t mind.

        If you are indeed saying what it seems you are saying then you are unbelievably unhinged.

        Wow, just wow.

        • http://redmeatconservative.blogspot.com/ Daniel Horowitz

          part of turning Samaria into a Hamas hellhole do you not understand? It is not my fault that these “elders” support such dangerous and severely naive suicidal concessions. If you can’t follow a train of thought without meandering into cerebral gyrations about non suitors, you should go elsewhere.

          It is a fact that a Palestinian State in Samaria would be a terrorist hell hole that is worse than Afghanistan. You could remain naive about the radicalism of the people living there, but that is a fact. Consequently, anyone who is advocating such a thing is enabling a terror state. In their minds, do they think that they are killing Jews? of course not! There is no malevolence here; there is credulousness to the 1000th degree. Their support for Oslo has led to the death and disablement of thousands of Jews. That is a fact. You don’t have to demogauge the issue by saying that I am calling them murderers. But with every gravely inane and dangerous policy, this policy will lead to easy terror targets.

          Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Nothing personifies this adage more than the incessant concessions that Israel has incurred, with the help of leftists. Is there any point in which the Palestinians will enunciate their ultimate goals in clear enough terms for the leftists to take them seriously? Abbas’s spokesman (not even Hamas) called Netanyahu’s speech a deceleration of war even though he agreed to the unwise idea of a Pal. State. What part of we will kill the Jews in any and every way we can do these “elders” not understand?

          There comes a point in time when fatuous negligence becomes criminal.

          • taylerdog23

            and can see and understand these complicated issues in ways that they simply cannot. I guess our Jewish elders’ quest for “naive suicidal concessions” has simply blinded them to the wisdom you offer?

            Hell, you already “crucified” (pun intended) much of AIPAC, the most fervent (if sometimes misguided) Pro-Israel organization I know of, so I guess it’s understandable for you to elevate your opinion even over some of those who have faced ultimate evil of Shoah.

            Furthermore, I guess you are similarly much wiser than those troops who serve in the IDF and have called for an end to what they see is an occupation that has done little to actually provide for Israel’s security. And let me be clear that I am not advocating their position, just noting another group of folks that you are apparently morally superior to.

            As for the radicalism of people living in Samaria–I do wonder how much time you’ve actually spent on the ground there. Just wondering.

            Let’s be honest here, the people on the ground in Israel face the ultimate stake in this matter and the fact is that many of them disagree with hawkish positions because they understand the dynamics of the situation better than Americans (including American Jews who don’t live there). As you can see, I am loathe to view them as naive or suicidal simply because I may disagree with them, and I chafe at the idea that fellow Jews who have lived through the Holocaust directly or indirectly just don’t “get it.”

            I’m typically not snarky, but some of the logical implications of your positions just go too far for me. But hey, this is America, and that is your right.

          • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

            That title would go to the Zionist Organization of America, of which I am a huge supporter, and recommend that you and your loved ones look into: http://www.zoa.org/

            Also, there is a book I heartily recommend that you and your loved ones should read, if you haven’t already: Right to Exist: A Moral Defense of Israel’s Wars, by Yaacov Lozowick, who was a Peace Now leftist for many years — and has since taken a different view. He interweaves his personal journey with factual Israel history in a way that is absolutely compelling. I have read many books about Israel; this one is probably my favorite, because it’s not just about Israel. It teaches you how to think morally about the world, in general, whatever country or policy. It is one of those books that literally changed the way I look at the world. Don’t cheat yourself out of reading it!

        • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

          Yeah, I’m not going to sit here and watch you smear one of the editors like that. Especially not with your posting history.

  • minncon

    Remember the Jews who helped the Nazis police the ghettos and extermination camps, turning on their own people, thinking they’d get special treatment (which, in the end, they did – express service to the gas chambers.)

    The AIPAC staff and members who continue to support Democrats showing obvious disdain for Israel (like Obama and Carter) are very much collaborating with the enemy, in the same fashion as did the turncoats in WWII.

    WAKE UP, Jewish-Americans! If Obama isn’t indeed a “secret Muslim,” he is certainly the “most Muslim” president in our history. And Muslims – especially Black Muslims here in the USA – have no use for Jews or Israel. With help from Obama, who sets a dark tone while smiling with his Cheshire Cat grin, their poison is seeping into America’s foreign policy faster than ever before.

    • aesthete

      What is this, terrible, offensive comparisons week?

  • ontap

    UN General Assembly Resolution 194, 11 December 1948, section 11, otherwise referred to as the ?Right to Return.? Omitted from President Obama?s recent comments about the Israeli-Palestinian debacle but foremost on his mind. If his administration can facilitate an Israeli compromise on this issue, there would be legal precedent to authorize amnesty for illegal immigrants of Mexican origin. The Reconquista would be realized to a modified extent. Who really cares if Israel absorbs thousands of individuals sworn to its destruction while progressive Democrats absorb millions of new voters.

  • gunslingr45

    stand with Israel. Want to make something of it?
    My point is as long as I am willing to stand with my brother, why would his brother badmouth my decision to make a stand no matter my reason?
    Sorry but even the whole enemy of my enemy thing could even apply here if nothing else does.
    So I will stand with you, get use to it!

    So many RINO?s so little time!

  • gritsandall

    is less education and more brain washing in many of the schools today, especially in the elite colleges. I submit that Israel has not started any wars or armed conflicts; it has only responded to those attacks against Israel. It is especially naive of liberals to think the Palestinians would make nice if only Israel would lay down its arms. Either naive, or calculated to advance the cause against Israel. My question is, what is their motive?

  • js1019

    There are far too many Jews in America who are committed to a liberal, progressive ideology before they are “religious” Jews. They are Jew by heritage and lineage but not in faith. They are bound, as are all on the left, to a fundamental change in America to a socialist society of two classes.
    As to this utter nonsense that Christians are supporters of Israel to expedite the rapture shows an ignorance of who we are as born-again believers in Jesus Christ. Using the logic of some writers here, why would we “gentiles” accept a Jew if we didn’t accept it as truth?
    The bible clearly states in Genesis 12:2-3. God is speaking to Abraham. ?I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you,and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.?
    Surely God has blessed America. Just as surely as Obama turns his back on Israel, so too will America’s blessing change.
    As to the return of Jesus, the main reason born-again believers accept this is in Matthew 24:32-34:
    “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it [or he] is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.”
    It is accepted, the term “fig tree” by Jesus is a prophetic reference to Israel. In the past several decades, many Christians believe that to be a modern-day “budding” of Israel in 1948, or of Jerusalem as its official capital in 1967.
    Honestly, I am unsure of the length of a generation, but of this I am sure, of the other prophesies in the Bible, there are none which need be fulfilled for the return of Jesus.
    We certainly have the technology for the whole world to see the death of the anti-christ, and to rise 3 days later to mimic Jesus’ resurrection, and for everyone to take the mark of beast in the hand or forehead to be able to buy or sell. (Search RFID chip).
    Be that as it may whether someone accepts or rejects Jesus as Lord and Savior is on them. As a Christian, my responsibility is to share that good news.
    One need only need to look to world events, to come to their own conclusion.

  • mutantone

    The simple fact that Obamaommunist desire that the Muslim extremest have a free pass on attacking Israel the one true long time ally of the United States. They opened the Gaza entrance which will allow many more missiles and weapons to enter the region that are there for the sole purpose of the destruction of Israel and Obamaommunist is just allowing it to happen to gain support and funding from his Allies the Muslims.