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Romney Fundamentally Lacks Conservative Principles on Healthcare…Or Anything Else

“His only contribution to the party has been his five-year interminable presidential campaign, despite his insistence that he never intended to run for office again after 2008.”

When Mitt Romney was seeking the Republican nomination in 2008, he deflected criticism of Romneycare by blaming its disastrous effects on the liberal legislature in Massachusetts.  That was four years ago, when Romney was attempting to win the hearts of the conservative base as the alternative to John McCain.

This time around, as he seeks to eschew any ideological principles, Romney is pronouncing his signature healthcare reform as a meritorious and quite ideal plan, at least for his state.  In fact, in recent days, he has gone so far as to proclaim MassCare as a fundamentally conservative principle.

Here is what he had to say today on Fox and Friends [video]:

“I’m happy to stand by the things that I believe. I’m not going to change my positions by virtue of being in a presidential campaign,” Romney said. “What we did was right for the people of Massachusetts, the plan is still favored there by three to one, and it is fundamentally a conservative principle to insist that people take personal responsibility as opposed to turning to government for giving out free care.” [emphasis added]

Romney owes Republican primary voters answers to two questions; one ideological and one political.

1) If Romneycare is built on such inviolable conservative principles; if Romneycare has been such an auspicious healthcare reform plan, then what is so terribly offensive about Obamacare?  Yes, we’ve heard that dubious distinction between state governments having the ability to promulgate tyranny, whereas the federal government is constrained by the constitution.  But why not amend the constitution so we can implement Romneycare (Obamacare) on a federal level?  Why not share your paramount success with the rest of the nation?

Moreover, as conservatives, we believe the most offensive part of Obamacare is that it permanently raises the cost of healthcare and health insurance on everyone in the country.  It represents the motherload of all market-distorters in an industry that is already plagued by high costs, due to the lack of a free-market.  It also dumps scores of people on Medicaid.  It is incontrovertibly clear that MassCare has engendered the highest premiums in the nation (indeed the other 92% of Massachusetts residents were affected after all),while dumping thousands of people onto federally funded Medicaid and disincentivizing people not to earn more money.   Sounds a bit like Obamacare, huh?

Nevertheless, Romney obdurately denies these studies and insists that 92% of Massachusetts residents weren’t affected by implementation of MassCare.  Let’s concede the point for a moment and say that Romney is correct.  Now if Romneycare was so successful, and in fact, was not a catalyst for major spikes in premiums and increase in Medicaid enrollment, isn’t Obama correct when he says that most Americans who like their current insurance will not be adversely affected by Obamacare?

Again, how is Romneycare fundamentally conservative and a great success, yet Obamacare is supposedly the worst thing in the world?  Is it the fact that Obamacare is funded by tax increases?  Then lets just repeal the tax hikes and fund this laudatory and necessary program through deficit spending, like a good old compassionate conservative.  The infinitesimal differences between Romneycare and Obamacare fail to account for the wide bifurcation of Romney’s attitude towards the two programs.  The reality is that both programs are incompatible with American values of limited government; both seek to undermine individual liberty and responsibility.

2) Politically speaking, if Romney were to be the nominee, how can he assure us that he will be able to effectively use Obamacare – our biggest political weapon – to our advantage?  Even if we concede that there are some differences between Romneycare and Obamacare, are they evident enough for him to feel comfortable while attacking Obamacare?

The bottom line is that we all know he will avoid Obamacare like the plague in the general election, thereby disarming Republicans of their most potent political weapon.

Romney’s primary vice is that he fundamentally has no conservative principles.  While most of the other candidates have significant and diverse flaws – both personal and ideological – they have fought for conservatism on some level and at some point in their career.  The highest honor in the Republican Party – the presidential nomination – should be bequeathed to an individual who has fought in the trenches for the ideals of the party.  Romney, unlike any other candidate, has produced absolutely nothing for conservatives.  Romney merely served for four years as a liberal governor, while promoting policies that are antithetical to our beliefs – with no counterbalance of conservative achievements to ameliorate his abysmal conservative record.  His only contribution to the party has been his five-year interminable presidential campaign, despite his insistence that he never intended to run for office again after 2008.

Has our swift growth as a movement over the past few years been only to nominate someone like this for the highest honor of our party?

COMMENTS

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    Notwithstanding the positive-press that he’s been receiving; it’s amazing how so much “ink” can be spilled ["pixels" can be generated] without issues-based discussion!

    • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

      Guzzardi and I will be in Des Moines @ the Chase Suite Hotel (3/10ths of a mile away from the Sheraton) from 1/1/2012-1/4/2012.

      We would anticipate a desire to organize a get-together of like-minded individuals either Sunday/Monday-p.m.

      We are open to suggestions regarding logistics; I’m @ r.sklaroff@verizon.net and available @ 215=459-4877.

      • Joshua Persons

        nt

        • jakeofalltrades

          nt

        • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

          …is invited to express those views personally, in Des Moines.

          [link-established!]

      • Castor

        But I?ll call a like-minded person down the road from Des Moines in Indianola and give him your information.

        • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

          We’re staying in a Penthouse…
          http://www.chasehoteldesmoines.com/photo-gallery/index.cfm
          …and the panoramic views on this website are fascinating.

          It doesn’t appear there are many large lounge-areas on-site, but we can plan to meet @ a nearby restaurant, perhaps in our room…maybe @ the Sheraton [where Rick is staying]; unless other activities are planned, this can occur BOTH on the 1st and the 2nd.

  • heraklios

    He would do anything, say anything, take any position whatsoever based on which way he thinks the wind is blowing. He a wussy, elitist snob who made millions by making regular people unemployed. Moreover, he is super devious. He never confronts his critics and never engages in an honest debate. Instead he has surrogates spread lies and innuendo. This pattern of behavior and his perosnality is a constant through the 2008 and 2012 campaigns.

    Moreover, he is just plain weird. Who ties their dog on top of the car for a 12 hour drive? This incident is a window inside Mittens’ soul. Totally removed from how his actions affect other people. He would just as soon tie the workers fired by Bain Capital on top of his car as his dog. That is how cold and unfeeling this person is.

    • DerKrieger

      You’re absolutely right. The man doesn’t lack conservative principles, he lacks principles period. I still have no idea what he believes in. Other than himself of course.

    • circlegranch

      William Weld was gov ’91-’97
      Paul Cellucci ’97-’01
      Jane Swift ’01-’03
      Mitt Romney ’03-’07

      After about 12 years of of Republican leadership in the Commonwealth of MA prior to Romney’s arrival, its a rather hollow argument that he continues to blame ‘the liberal legislature’ as a reason for his own liberal governance. If anything, coming into office with that much Republican tail wind, surely he could have effected more change toward conservatism, not appointed quite so many liberal judges and been able to be true to his claimed conservative values.

      • naraht

        Does anyone have any information as to when during these 16 years that Democrats had 2/3 in both houses of the Mass Legislature (so they could override all vetoes) and when they didn’t? I *think* I remember reading that there was 2/3 in both houses during Romney’s entire term, but I’m not sure before that…

  • heraklios

    He would do anything, say anything, take any position whatsoever based on which way he thinks the wind is blowing. He a wussy, elitist snob who made millions by making regular people unemployed. Moreover, he is super devious. He never confronts his critics and never engages in an honest debate. Instead he has surrogates spread lies and innuendo. This pattern of behavior and his perosnality is a constant through the 2008 and 2012 campaigns.

    Moreover, he is just plain weird. Who ties their dog on top of the car for a 12 hour drive? This incident is a window inside Mittens’ soul. Totally removed from how his actions affect other people. He would just as soon tie the workers fired by Bain Capital on top of his car as his dog. That is how cold and unfeeling this person is.

  • http://www.timothy-bladel.com/ center77

    conservatives are not smart and tactical enough to vote vote Perry. It’s debate mess ups or socializing medicine, how hard is that choice. I’m not understanding why people are not getting it. Newt will wither in ever state once the ads start rolling in. Paul, well racism will tend to come back and haunt you, he will never beat the first black president. Santorum and Bachmann not happening. Santorum could buy yen more endorsements and he would still not be in the White House. Huntsman, Don’t see it happening, even though he was my choice until Perry got in. This is nuts.

  • thosjefferson

    Any serious conservative should read the endorsement Romney picked up from the Boston Herald for a far more informed discussion of Romneycare than Horowitz’ simplistic analysis.

    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/editorials/view/2011_1228nation_needs_romney/srvc=news&position=also

    • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

      If you hyperlink to the editorial, you will note that the word “conservative” does not appear!

    • http://redmeatconservative.blogspot.com/ Daniel Horowitz

      What are you smoking?

      This is all they have to say on Romneycare: just one paragraph:

      “Among those accomplishments was health care reform ? sure, call it Romneycare ? but it works here for us and Mitt Romney has nothing to be ashamed of for having secured the best piece of legislation he could. And let?s not forget he did it with the threat of a universal health care bill headed for the ballot at the time and rising costs for treating the uninsured. It wasn?t as he would have crafted it, but it was a decent compromise. It is not, as Romney has repeatedly said, the solution for other states ? only a president who believes he has a monopoly on truth and righteousness (like the current one) would presume to impose his will on the entire nation.”

      They totally obfuscate the facts about wealth redistribution, skyrocketing premiums, and medicaid enrollment. Actually, they produce no facts, only vapid credulous cheerleading rhetoric.

      Most of all, they never say why it is such a bad idea for other states and the federal government. Again, if this was such an “accomplishment,” why not share it on a national stage and with other states? Sure it would need to be tweaked a bit, but why is it so amazing for Massachusetts, yet somehow a disaster for other states, and downright evil on a federal level?

      • thosjefferson

        Horowitz, you quoted the paragraph but apparently didn’t read it.

        They point out that Romneycare works for Mass, which the people of Mass. agree with, and that Romney made it as conservative as possible given the demographics and politics in Mass.

        By contrast, you take the Obama approach. You are one “who believes he has a monopoly on truth and righteousness [and] would presume to impose [your] will on the entire nation.”

        The conservative approach lets each state make it’s own health care policy, according to local conditions. That’s exactly what Romney did. All the so-called conservatives who insist every state follow their personal preferences, such as yourself, are the opposite of conservative.

        Plus, there are conservative elements of Romneycare that you continue to ignore or misrepresent, such as the exchanges that let small businesses afford health care at the same rates as the largest corporations.

        Obamacare is one issue, but hardly the biggest issue. People aren’t going to vote against Obama solely because of Obamacare. It’s reinvigorating the economy, and the principles of free enterprise and state’s rights, that Romney stands for. By insisting states don’t have the right to experiment with health care plans, you’re actually making the case for federalizing health care policy–just like Obama did.

    • Bill S

      We’re supposed to take a Romney endorsement from the freakin’ Boston Herald seriously?

      You must be a Ron Paul follower. The drugs have taken their toll.

      • Wubbies World

        … the Boston Herald is the closest thing to conservative news there, and that is a stretch to be very kind to them.

        The Boston Herald is as conservative as Scott Brown, if that gives you some perspective.

        Short answer: Well said Bill

        • Wubbies World

          I no longer live there. I now live in South Dakota, but my parents and sister still live there.

        • Bill S

          .

  • jcgldr

    if we vote based on words we probably could argue who speaks more conservative romney or gingrich and of course huntsman is out of question

    but in the real world words does not matter as much as action and in action gingrich is a true coservative he balanced 4 national budgets while romney imposed romneycare and huntsman even if he talks like a libelral he cut taxes in utah and made it the best state to do buisness

    not talking of perry ,santurom , bachman who all of them have both speaking and action like true conservative but of them the only one who haves real expirience is perry

    so in my view its perry, huntsman or gingrich

    • http://www.timothy-bladel.com/ center77

      he fought his own contract, even once demanding that “those conservatives”(his words) explain themselves for voting against increased spending. That’s not a leader we need, that’s a fraud.

      • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

        We already knew that.

        • jcgldr

          no?

          • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

            –no*text–

          • acat

            need to use the /snark tag … liberally…

            Mew

  • ghostship

    I think this opinion piece over at Townhall has it dead to rights.

    http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2011/12/27/7_reasons_why_mitt_romneys_electability_is_a_myth/page/full/

    But to sum up the piece:

    1) People just don’t like Mitt
    2) He’s a proven political loser
    3) Running weak in the southern states
    4) His advantages disappear in a general election
    5) Bain Capital
    6) The Mormon Factor
    7) He’s a flip-flopper

    The only thing a vote for Romney in the primary does is ensure that Obama gets a second term.

  • kamiller42

    As much as I like the non-Romney candidates, they are dividing the vote. I am hoping two or three drop out after Iowa so conservatives can coalesce around one non-Romney candidate.

    I was hoping Ron Paul would be one of the drop outs, but that is wishful thinking now. He has money to go further.

    Huntsman will hopefully leave. Some non-Romney candidates need to fall on their sword for the conservative cause. Who do you think it should be?

    • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

      …that, by St. Valentine’s Day, it will essentially be a 2-man race.

      The others will have exhausted resources, and [just as in the proxy-battle in VA], the battle-lines will have been established between Mitt and Perry; it is hoped that the TEA Party Movement activists will have awakened from winter-hibernation and will then function accordingly.

  • jcgldr

    no comment

    • heraklios

      He is the only person standing between Willard Mittens and a sweep of Iowa and NH. Barring some totally unforseen event, a Ron Paul win in Iowa helps our cause because it slows Mittens’ momentum. I would rather have Ron Paul as POTUS anyway if the only choices were him or Mittens.

      • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

        …and merits as much bashing as possible.

      • acat

        I wouldn’t spit on Paul if he were on fire.

        I wouldn’t trust Paul to organize anything more complex than a Sunday brunch.

        I wouldn’t put Paul in charge of a local dog pound, let alone a House district.

        Mew

        • Bill S

          Although he’d probably screw up the brunch by opening his mouth.

          The dogs could probably deal with it.

      • Tbone

        to be sterilized and forced into menial labor in ill fitting clothes.

        • Wubbies World

          …. Agreed…..

          Now I have to clean off my keyboard and monitor. LOL Love it!

    • heraklios

      He is the only person standing between Willard Mittens and a sweep of Iowa and NH. Barring some totally unforseen event, a Ron Paul win in Iowa helps our cause because it slows Mittens’ momentum. I would rather have Ron Paul as POTUS anyway if the only choices were him or Mittens.

      • jcgldr

        because people don’t relieze what he stands for he uses the anger of republicans on spending as a sheild for all his crazy ideas like we are to blame for 9/11 and go back to the gold standard believing in conspiracy theories
        and after all he has no expirience whatsoever he is just going around screaming for 35 years unless when he is getting earmarks for his district

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    ….and others “stand in the way,” as well.

  • Wubbies World

    … government health care with a government mandate that forces free citizens to do something against their will. It would be far more honest to have a large tax increase and tell people here is your insurance rather than force people to enroll. ( If I remember correctly Hawaii tried that for only children too and had to kill it or go broke)

    Heyak is absolutely right in that Socialism places shackles on people to comply with their master’s wishes. It is the complete antithesis to liberty. Now Romney says that that is fundamentally conservative? In what alternate universe is he living in?

    Also, remember there are Republicans in the Senate who supported this type garbage before, and still do but keep their mouths shut now. However, they will not allow its repeal because they secretly like it but are too terrified of the electorate to admit it. Romney is supported by these same people.

    These are the people who wish to be our masters.

    It makes me want to puke.

    … but that is my opinion.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …will ultimately be recognized as symptomatic of his being a statist/elitist.

    Note this quote: “The Republican presidential candidate says he never intended to run for office again after 2008?”I went back and bought a home which was far too expensive and grandiose for the purposes of another campaign,” he jokes.”

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204464404577114591784420950.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop&_nocache=1324930193002&user=welcome&mg=id-wsj&_nocache=1325085706449&user=welcome&mg=id-wsj

    And note that he refuses to return American Troops to Iraq, despite the risk of civil-war and, thus, dissolution of all that had been accomplished [per comments this-a.m. on F&F].

    *

  • citizenjerry

    If Romney fundamentally lacks conservative principles, why do so many GOP wizards of smart insist on him being our nominee? We already know how squishy moderates do against real Democrats. Bob Dole and John McCain come to mind.

    Does this GOP establishment have a death wish? Or maybe they’re trying to finally put an end to what they consider the nonsense of Reagan conservatism.

  • cajunchosid770

    IMHO I think for Perry to be the nominee we need him to win Iowa. This is the first choice.

    But here is my other scenario:

    Let Ron Paul win Iowa,
    Mitt with NH,

    then it comes to SC. If Perry beats Newt in Iowa and comes in 3rd, behind Paul or Romney this sets up the stage for Perry to be the conservative alternative to Mitt. But Mitt needs to lose Iowa otherwise he will have Iowa and NH as I don’t see him losing NH. If Mitt wins Iowa and NH he will be the nominee.

    So let the vote for Iowa be Paul, Mitt and then Rick Perry.

    Whoever comes in 3rd in Iowa will be the non Mitt candidate people will rally around. We need that to be Rick Perry. If Perry comes in 3rd and Newt 4th, then Newts guys will flock to Perry and Perry can skip NH and fight it out in SC and go for the win there.

    So I think it is not a bad thing if Ron Paul wins IOWA. Let him win it if it can not be Rick Perry.

    • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

      …so your scenario is realistic.

  • goodgovernance

    It really is true, the process gives us a window into the man’s fundamental habits and behavior traits. With Romney, we’ve got all the evidence we need from five years of campaigning to know what sort of president he would be.

    He’s fundamentally cautious … too cautious, preferring to stay out of the spotlight whenever possible. He prefers to work behind the scenes, dealing under the table. At the same time, he has no problem with letting underlings carry out dirty or unfair attacks on his behalf, all while maintaining plausible deniability.

    He likes to have it both ways. That’s why he argues that he’s proud of Romneycare in Massachusetts, but hates, hates, hates Obamacare. Why he can say at one moment he’s a Progressive, then later switch up and say he’s a true conservative — in his mind there’s no contradiction. No contradiction between saying he’s Pro-Life, when previously he said his life experiences made him a pro-abortion advocate of conviction.

    This is a man who really doesn’t care about issues or positions. For him, it’s all about getting ahead, and about keeping all your options open, for the sake of advancement. It doesn’t matter if the country needs real political change in Washington – Romney won’t risk his political career to make that change happen. While he runs as a Washington outsider, the irony is that he possesses, in spades, all the self-interested traits that make Washington insiders who they are. I have no doubt Mitt would focus on the task of political self-preservation, to the exclusion of any promises he might have made, of any convictions he might have professed, and make sure to leverage the status quo to make sure he was never, ever exposed.

    We’ll never see a Henry at Agincourt moment with Romney. We’ll never see him stand up to the unions, or the airport control tower workers like Reagan did. We’ll just see more of the same in Washington.

    I have to admit, at this point I’m more than a bit frustrated with the Tea Party about all this. While I applaud a lot of what they stand for, I wonder if their anger has gotten in the way of acting smartly and logically. The Republicans always used to pride themselves on being the party that thought things through — the Democrats were always the ones who acted out of raw emotion.

    Now look at where the raw anger has gotten us – Romney! Say what you will about McCain, but during the last cycle he and the other presidential candidates were smart enough to know that in order to defeat the phoney Romney, they had to all band together.

    What have we got this cycle? A bunch of candidates, who while true conservatives, aren’t quite ready for prime time in one way or another. They couldn’t even realize if they spend all their time attacking each other, Romney sneaks by and takes the whole thing with his measly 25% support!

    Romney could end up having this in the bag in a couple weeks if he wins both Iowa and New Hampshire. And that would be just about the worst thing for this party since Watergate.

  • Marcus_Traianus

    Not saying I agree with the mane man, but there are several other vexing issues at hand;

    1- Alleged 10th Amendment supporters flame Romney for healthcare in Massachusetts. Heck they even flame Perry for an in-state tuition policy resoundingly passed by the Texas legislature. Yet, when convenient we use such examples as antithetical to conservatism. So I am confused. What is more antithetical- denying states the right to pass policies which have the support of its people (and thereby usually its legislature and vice versa) and instead imposing upon them federal mandates or allowing them the to do so unencumbered by federal intervention? One would think the former is exactly what ObamaCare is all about. Ergo, you can’t have it both ways.

    2- Furthermore, what is the conservative alternative to the uninsured problem? Exemplia gratia how do we deal with the destitute and others who simply can not afford to pay for healthcare? Simple, we implore people to take personal responsibility for themselves whether legislatively or fiscally enforced according to their needs. The latter part is what Mr. Romney seems to be referring to. Seems a rather Burkean principle to me. Finally, when people are truly in need we provide for them as a function of the state. Emphasis on truly. It is not a right to have free access no matter how convoluted liberals try their constitutional gymnastics.

    Anyway, point being nobody mistakes Romney for some conservative scion. The guy was a Blue-State governor for Pete’s sake. But IMHO some of the arguments are against him are specious and nugatory to our internal political dialogue.

    Summarily, Romney and Perry did what was possible because the voters of the state allowed it. Neither (I believe) has said they aspire to repeat those programs on the federal level. In fact they have said the converse and framed it in the same context stated above.

    • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

      …are intuitive.

      States can function independently, but those who empower Big Government are functioning in a fashion that is antithetical to innate American individualism.

      We have Medicaid as a safety net; otherwise, people “play” the free-market.

      • Marcus_Traianus

        Government already has a hand in provision of healthcare for the people and a responsibility to provide for their general welfare. The only question is how much, how do we do to ensure a fair and equitable system and what are the limits?. So we are already “pregnant” the question is how do we take care of the “baby”.

        Don’t forget today’s “big government” solution is financially killing the states, hence their attempts at cost reduction by any means. So I can understand the reflexive nature of states when confronted with government solutions popular with their voters. Now don’t forget I said understand, not necessarily agree. At some point you lead, but occasionally you have to fail first.

        Conservatives resoundingly agree that compelling everyone to purchase healthcare violates constitutional limits on a federal level. That is largely the basis of our argument against Obamacare. But whether we like it or not, government (and especially state government) is part of the solution.

    • Wubbies World

      I am a 10th amendment person. I liked Perry’s response in a debate to favorable tax breaks to the oil and gas industry in Texas. He said states should be allowed to compete against each other, but that is not what the Federal government needs to be doing.

      If Romney took that position from the beginning and in the presidential race, I would be good with that position. However, what is really unsettling to me is that there are elements in the Republican party, especially in the Senate who are against repeal of Obamacare, but rather propose “tinkering around the edges to improve it” and those are Romney’s supporters.

      A simpler answer might be pointing out that the Republican establishment and their positions as a whole bother me, and those are Romney’s biggest supporters. Then combine that with establishment candidates campaigning as hard core conservatives then getting back to Washington and all of a sudden they developing amnesia about those positions. [cue reminder of cut, cap and balance and John Boehner's capitulation] I expect the same behavior from Romney. I have come to expect it from establishment Republicans and Romney is absolutely one of them.

      • Marcus_Traianus

        But we are not. The focus appears to be on parochial arguments ultimately made to boost a particular candidate.

        I would completely agree there is not a significant amount of accomplishments in Romney’s past that leads us to believe he will be a principled conservative (capitalist perhaps, but not conservative). In fact the evidence is that Romney will be easily persuaded by established, stale ideas from people with a vested interest in the status quo.

        But conversely and strangely I see some hope in the passage of his RomneyCare program. That was a fairly significant leap (we can dispute direction) that was enabled by the people around Romney persuading him it was both popular and politically savvy.

        The missed (or hopefully future) opportunity is for conservatives to gain more access to Romney and acquaint him with the soundness and popularity of our principled ideas. The man is no dope and very practical. He will get what it takes to build a winning coalition and effectively govern.

        • Wubbies World

          I have a cousin in Mass who is an ardent supporter of Romney’s and he has a similar take on Romney. This is why I still whole heartedly believe he will be far better than Obama.

          I guess I am still suffering from unrelenting buyers remorse from a continues stream of “campaigning as a conservative but get to Washington and developing campaign trail amnesia” Republicans. I am just angry about it now unfortunately.

          That is why I am supporting Perry. He impresses me as the guy the establishment fears the most. That is why he has my vote. If Perry losses, which seems likely, except for Ron Paul, I will pull the handle for who ever the nominee is going to be. It will still be better than Obama.

          • Marcus_Traianus

            It’s about time we focused on that argument, irrespective of who wins.

            Anybody arguing or stating the converse is simple long on rhetoric and short on facts.

          • Wubbies World

            … the debate on who is a better candidate. I just wish people were not total absolutists over their candidate. Yea, work hard for whoever it is, but gosh put away the pointy sticks and save them for the general.

            The general is where scorched earth and pointy sticks are needed. The good Lord knows the Dem’s will be doing it.

    • curtmilr

      into two categories: those who are too poor to purchase insurance and those who choose not to purchase insurance though able to afford it.
      The first group are covered by Medicaid.
      The second group are subject to normal debtor collection scenarios.

      Therefore, where IS the problem? The problem is that we have allowed it to become a political wedge issue by letting leftists determine the field of battle on terms of their choosing and definition.

      I will vote for Mitt if he gets the nomination, but not with great enthusiasm. And I fear that enthusiasm gap, writ large, is precisely the problem with his being the candidate.

      • http://redmeatconservative.blogspot.com/ Daniel Horowitz

        Not only has Romneycare driven up the costs of insurance premiums and Medicaid enrollment, it has failed to solve the consummate issue that it was established for; namely, the free rider problem. Uncompensated care in Massachusetts rose 5% from 2008 to 2009 and15% from 2009 to 2010

        • Marcus_Traianus

          Doing this from memory.

          Uncompensated care existed via the FCP prior to Romney. They were trying to reduce that pool. The bet was that as state coverage expanded the pool would be reduced. The analysis was done by an MIT professor, et al who did a pretty good static job of predicting the outcome but didn’t foresee the loopholes. Academics. Pffft. They should have used a Vegas card counter, but I digress.

          Loophole number one being that people would purchase coverage only for a few months when they needed it. So they would pay small premiums for a few months and get a significant amount of benefits in return.

          Can’t remember all the rest…

          But, Federal law also requires coverage for illegal immigrants. Part of the savings projected in RC/UFC were achieved by redirecting illegal immigrants from expensive emergency room care and into clinics. Problem is that coverage became a magnet and was poorly designed.

          For the record, I don’t support the individual mandate or RomneyCare. But I understand what Romney was trying to do.

      • acat

        Because there’s a Federal mandate that hospitals provide emergency care regardless of ability to pay, the argument that “normal debtor collection scenarios” applies is incorrect.

        It would be akin to saying that gas stations must provide gasoline to motorists with under 1 gallon remaining, regardless of ability to pay, and then being surprised when the number of people with less than a gallon left goes up.

        I would have no problem with moving hospitals to the front of the queue in event of bankruptcy, or allowing hospitals to collect biometric data in the event a visitor cannot prove insurance or ability to pay, not for purposes of criminal enforcement but to allow for simplified identification of the patient (it’s a *hospital*, they already have your DNA.. think about it)

        Mew

        • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

          …but your comment requires clarification.

          Hill-Burton & EMTALA mandate provision of ER-level care, but that’s it.

          This is a significant cost-center for hospital budgets, but it’s not overwhelming and it’s often covered [in academic centers, in particular] by DISH [Discretionary Sharing]payments.

          Follow-up would then follow normal business practices and/or Medicaid/Medicare application; the only major potential black-hole is when initial-contact yields prolonged hospitalization.

          John Goodman has ideas, others have ideas regarding sliding-scale supplements for those who aren’t indigent but, regardless, the key-conclusions are [1]–ER care is provided [even to illegals], and [2]–subsequent assessment yields either application for government payment through existing programs or billing of fee-for-service.

          • acat

            results in *zero* follow-up (because the patient is aware he/she can go to the E.R. “free” but that follow-up will cost…) then the E.R. becomes a “tragedy of the commons”.

            This is what has been seen in southern border States where the “significant cost center” becomes a deal-breaker.

            This has also been seen in Chicago’s poorer neighborhoods where hospitals, even linked with other hospitals in more affluent areas, cannot afford the loss from E.R.-only patients.

            Based on that, my second point – perhaps a modified Goodman – is that hospitals, given their federally-mandated elevated responsibility, need an equivalent elevated right to attempt to collect, thus biometrics.

            This does not fix the whole system, it simply knocks part of the field back toward level. Tort reform, specifically setting some form of limit on “punitive” damages, which would lower or at least stabilize malpractice costs and allow specialists to make a living wage outside of metro areas in Illinois. (just try to find a high-end neonatal guy south of I-80)

            Mew

          • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

            …as far as you go.

            First, I would ensure that enforcement of Illegal Alien laws would extend to the ER; following stabilization, there would be a taxi-cab awaiting the patient [for discharge in Tijuana]. Thus, if awareness of this disposition this were to serve as a disincentive to arrive in the first plase, so be it.

            Second, the use of the ER as a PCP-substitute is generally undermined after Medicaid patients choose their Primary Care Physicians. Thus, the temptation to become a “chronic-offender” is minimized.

            Third, after an illness arises [no matter how intense], the need to maintain coverage is psychologically [if not physically] determinative. Thus, the compulsion to adopt a revolving-door approach to this problem would be behaviorally undermined.

            The private insurance system must not be undermined; no matter how many alleged-abuses occur, it cannot be worse than a Single-Payor approach.

            *

          • carolynr

            nt

          • acat

            seem to be going the way of the dodo, with more and more medical students choosing to be specialists rather than generalists.

            That said, I do think we take slightly different approaches to re-balancing the scales… I’d prefer to stay within the existing debtor framework, it sounds like you’re leaning toward expanding into immigration enforcement.

            Mew

          • snowshooze

            It used to be that your Doctor could perform just about any level of care he wished to.
            This is no longer the case. They are very limited in what they may or may not do.
            Almost anything interesting puts them in the position of being a referral agency. They can’t do any eye work, can’t do any Ortho.. can’t do this or that.
            So you are referred to the correct Specialist.
            But you have to go see them and pay full out to determine who can help.. which seems like a waste.
            Dr. Bob?

          • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

            physician-extenders expand [nurse practitioners and physicians' assistants].

          • snowshooze

            I always joke that because I am a Machinist/Welder, and she is a Doctor… there ain’t much we can’t fix.
            But she is free do do pretty much anything she wishes at her discretion.
            She referrs a lot though. As Ortopedic and eye work beyond minior removal of foreign objects.
            When it gets out of her comfort zone.. her objective is the best care. Sometimes it comes down to a budgeted best care due to the Customer’s ability to pay, and she generally offers the entire gamut of care options right up front.
            I can’t remember my Doctor discussing those with me.
            But I haven’t been broken very often either.
            There is Health care insurance available for pets, by the way.
            My points here:
            GP’s used to have much more control over care and cost options.
            One stop shopping is being lost.
            With fragmented care by several Doctors, often seen in aging Patients who require several Specialists, I have seen conflicting Medications, and also a loss of good oversight to the overall Patient’s care. The forest get’s so thick, you can’t see the trees.

          • lineholder

            IMG stands for International Medical Graduate, and it was written into O-care as a means of attempting to address the PCP shortage. It’s run into a few snags, primarily that the standard of requirement for education that exists in other nations is often less stringent than our own. Yes, it does convey a certain amount of leniency for immigrants with medical backgrounds.

            The other option written into O-care to try to address shortage of PCPs was the involuntary draft for those who take med school loans from the gov’t. For up to ten years, the gov’t can draft the person to work any where the gov’t chooses as a way of repaying debt for the loan. This includes working in clinics as PCPs, and emphasis is heavy on under-privileged areas.

          • lineholder

            I think IMGs can under the heading of one of those “the Secretary shall determine” provisions in the law, so it may not be bluntly stated in the legislation. But that’s the decision that has been made.

    • carolynr

      Take that to the bank. It is not going to happen. That is why this guy has to go. Secondly…look at all the laws that are within Obamacare that take away our freedoms. I do not want the thing. Once we go down that road…we are not a free society.

      So…if you think Romney is so great…then think about our freedoms. They guy WILL NOT REPEAL IT. He’s a wuzz.

  • spinoneone

    who can beat 0 will do. On the other hand, my choice certainly is not Romney. He is squishier than Mitch McConnell, and that is saying a lot! I will also admit to a strong rejection of Ron Paul. As for the rest of the current crop, when the dust settles, one of them will get my support and a small amount of cash.

  • http://aposematic.wordpress.com aposematic

    As Obama was put up and supported by the Democrat Marxist controlled Party disguised as a moderate. The Republican Socialist/Liberal controlled Party is putting up and supporting Romney as a conservative. Outside of this political deception by both Parties representing America’s Bigger and Bigger Government, I blame the people/voters for obviously being so easily fooled, gullible, brainwashed, idiotic, or just plain stupid for not seeing what keeps punching them in their face and stealing their money.

  • vangoghssister

    how it is possible for Mitt Romney to be elected in the general. Aside from his constant changing of position on various issues, Romneycare, etc., he is the poster-child of the so-called 1% that Obama, Dems, the media, et al will use to destroy him. They will never let up about it, on and on and on it will go. Even worse, Romney himself will do nothing but reinforce the truth of it by becoming all puffed up and indignant, snotty and repugnant. The more he tries to deflect the argument, the more he?s going to prove himself to be the insufferable empty shirt he really is. How will that convince independents to vote for him? Not only will he turn off independents, he will turn off many of the conservative voters who will probably vote for him if he is the only choice, but it will be difficult to convince many to actually campaign for him. I wouldn?t be able to campaign for him, I don?t believe in him, I have no faith in him. I will vote for him if I have to, holding my nose, just like always. Newt will have some of the same problem, but if he can manage to control the condescension he?s prone to, he?ll manage to shut down that argument (I?m actually just guessing about Newt!).

    Personally, I wish we could get Obama, Romney and Gingrich in a room together for a little ?debate? on the issues. The sheer volume of arrogance in the room would cause spontaneous combustion of all three! Problem solved.