Well, that didn’t take long. Just one week into the conference committee on the highway bill, Republicans are showing signs of caving on their insistence that the Keystone pipeline be approved as part of the deal.
Throughout the past few months, we have been chronicling how Republicans have been apathetic to the underlying vices of the highway bill (S. 1813). They basically told the Democrats in committee that they have every intention of passing the Senate bill; they just want a provision approving the Keystone pipeline as part of the agreement. As any negotiator that lacks the credulousness of a toddler understands, once you take your bargaining chip off the table, the other side has no reason to give in. Since Republicans have guaranteed Democrats that the tax and spend highway bill is too big to fail, Democrats will wait them out until they agree to jettison the Keystone provision. And that is exactly what is happening.
Take a look at these quotes from The Hill:
Republicans are pressing for approval of the Keystone XL oil pipeline in a final House-Senate transportation bill but appear unlikely to draw a line in the sand that jeopardizes the infrastructure legislation.
While the proposed Alberta-to-Texas pipeline is a top GOP and oil-industry priority, Republicans might have incentive to keep the matter unresolved, enabling them to continue using Keystone as a political weapon during the campaign season. [...]
“The overall Republican conference position is not to sink the conference report over [Keystone XL], however, as keeping that issue alive through the elections is also acceptable,” an oil industry source told The Hill.

Let’s be straight: the Keystone pipeline should never be used to pass bad legislation. It’s just humorous to watch these guys capitulate on their one line in the sand. As we’ve noted before, there are numerous problems with the underlying bill:
- Taxpayer Bailout of Private Pensions: As part of an oblique effort to raise revenue for the faulty highway trust fund, the Senate bill allows corporations to put less money into company pensions that are backed by the taxpayer-funded Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC). This would increase net profits for corporations, and by extension, generate $7 billion more in taxes to Uncle Sam. In addition to serving as a convoluted way to fund the tenuous highway trust fund, it will also expose taxpayers to future bailouts of the PBGC when it becomes clear that the pension plans are underfunded. [read more on this at the Heritage Foundation].
- General Fund Transfer: Just hours before the Senate bill was brought to a floor vote on March 14, Barbara Boxer slipped in a manager’s amendment that contained a provision (section 40313) authorizing a $5 billion general fund transfer to the highway trust fund.
- Nanny-State Enhancement Mandates: James Inhofe, the Republican architect of Boxer’s transportation bill, promised Republicans that the bill offered flexibility to the states for spending their infrastructure dollars, exempting them from the 10% “enhancement” mandates. Well, the manager’s amendment appears to have vitiated that agreement.
- Other Top-Down Mandates and Anti-Free-Market Policies: There are sundry provisions that impose eco-fascism, establish anti-growth “made in America” mandates, discourage private sector investments in infrastructure, and offer giveaways to Big Labor.
- New Bureaucracies: The bill expands the size of government. According to the Washington Letter on Transportation, as cited in Ken Orski’s Innovation News Briefs, the bill creates a new National Endowment for the Oceans, Coasts and Great Lakes, which will be housed in the Department of Commerce. It also provides for a seven-year reauthorization of the Land and Water Conservation Fund, a green program of the National Park Service within the U.S. Department of the Interior.
- Big Brother: The bill mandates that every new motor vehicle beginning in 2015 be equipped with a recording device designed to store data related to vehicle safety.
- IRS out of control: The bill grants authority to revoke passports of those who owe more than $50,000 in unpaid taxes.
This is just the tip of the iceberg of this 1676-page bill. It also serves as a stark reminder why we should not lock up authority for all transportation responsibility in Washington. This is not a bill we should support in any shape or form – Keystone or no Keystone.
Erick Erickson
Jeff Emanuel
Steve Maley
Caleb Howe
Republicans cave, dog bites
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 4:22PM EDT (link)man
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Dear Republican "leadrship"...
anotherindyfilmguy (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 4:32PM EDT (link)If the country is destroyed because you essentially join the democratic party you will be as much to blame as them. At some point you and the democrats will go the way of the Whig party and it will be a historic moment.
Quit trying to make that historic moment happen!
(or hurry up and get it over with… )
Razz Etc!
“Best Poker book written ever!!!” – Author’s unbiased opinion…
Republicans Are Like "Right-of-Center" Christian Democrats in Germany: Not Really Conservative
Ausonius (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 5:12PM EDT (link)They just want to install Socialism and surrender to radical environmentalists at a more leisurely pace.
Merkel and company are losing in Germany, and so-called “right-wing” or “Conservative” opposition parties in Europe have lost elections in France and Greece, mainly because their solutions are not working: and why?
Because the solutions are not actually conservative!
Our RINO’s need to pay attention: and yes, let us again invoke the ghosts of the Whigs!
Ausonius: 310-395 A.D. Teacher, Poet, Consul, General, Farmer.
Personal Tutor to the future St. Paulinus of Nola and to young Gratian, heir to the throne during the turbulent final years of the Western Roman Empire. When his former student Gratian was assassinated, Ausonius threw up his hands and retired to his farm in Gaul. Rome was captured by barbarians 14 years after his death.
Cato@rock.com
AND…Know Your Czars…Before They Hit BIG BRObama’s Unemployment Line in November: http://www.czarcards.us/
I don't think is as simple as you make it out to be
garfieldjl (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 5:45PM EDT (link)We don’t know everything that is going on in Washington, however there is a limit to what Republicans in the House can do since Reid runs the senate.
I think they are of the impression that going all out on the Keystone Pipeline and losing will hurt them in the General, however from our vantage point we are of the opinion that it would help them in the General.
I think it is a fear of failing in the attempt and handing Obama 4 more years. People say Boehner is a bad speaker of the House, well not sure that is the case.
1. I think the Senate was in Republican Hands after Newt Gingrich became Speaker.
2. Bill Clinton wasn’t a radical ideologue and could change positions when he realized he was making a mistake.
3. The previous speaker was probably the most corrupt Speaker of the House in our lifetimes (Nancy Pelosi). He doesn’t want to behave in a manner that is like Pelosi.
If this song and dance routine continues after Obama is kicked out and we hopefully have the senate, then we should start looking at primaries in 2014, however I am reserving judgement at this time.
This is getting old
Daniel Horowitz (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 6:59PM EDT (link)It’s really simple: If Republicans lack the gumption to push for a free market agenda when they only control the House, they will be even more fearful of losing power once they control all branches. They will own the full responsibility in the eyes of the public, something they don’t own now. The idea that the current crop of leaders in the house and senate – whether in the majority or minority – will suddenly change is disillusion.
Also, keep in mind that while Republicans don’t control the Senate, they do have 47 votes. Although they can’t pass good legislation, they can block bad legislation. The fact that they often choose not to, shows that it’s not an issue of control. For the same reasons why they cave now, they will cave when in the majority, especially if they only have a small majority.
I’m not saying that there won’t be any utility with Republicans winning the majority, especially as it relates to judicial nominees. However, the idea that they will suddenly have the moxie to push entitlement reform, when they can’t even support a few billion in extra discretionary cuts, is not grounded in reality.
Example: RINO Olympia Snowe and Her Cloture Vote
Ausonius (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 9:16PM EDT (link)You are quite right: and Conservative Republicans are constantly sabotaged by “let’s play nicely with each other” RINO’s like Snowe, who allowed MAObamaCare to escape the blockade with her cloture vote.
Ohio is full of RINO Republicans, as proven by their inability and unwillingness to do ANYTHING remotely conservative when they had complete control of the state legislature and the governorship under “Bob the Moron” Taft.
RINO’s give us all kinds of excuses about everything and how “complicated” politics can be in D.C.
Satis! Genug! Basta! Enough!
Ausonius: 310-395 A.D. Teacher, Poet, Consul, General, Farmer.
Personal Tutor to the future St. Paulinus of Nola and to young Gratian, heir to the throne during the turbulent final years of the Western Roman Empire. When his former student Gratian was assassinated, Ausonius threw up his hands and retired to his farm in Gaul. Rome was captured by barbarians 14 years after his death.
Cato@rock.com
AND…Know Your Czars…Before They Hit BIG BRObama’s Unemployment Line in November: http://www.czarcards.us/
Well, I'm sure you're happy that you won't have Snowe to complain about in January.
mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 10:23PM EDT (link)Of course, her replacement wont be voting against conservatives interests 60% of the time, he’ll be caucusing with Harry Reid and voting a tad to the left of Karl Marx.
Until we’ve got a credible candidate to run against a sitting “RINO”, giving the seat to the Democrats is just plain stupid. Richard Mourdock is the example we should be following. He was well known statewide, has a very good reputation and this isn’t his first rodeo. It’s very likely he’ll win in November and we trade Dick Lugar for a solid conservative.
Losing Snowe is a very bad deal for us.
Maine Is Still Up In the Air
Ausonius (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 7:43AM EDT (link)The independent/Democrat King might not be a sure thing we will see what happens in their June primary.
The larger question is whether we want to define Republicanism as slower Democrat Socialism, and by retaining Snowe and other RINO’s that is what is happening. Long term, therefore, people would wonder why the Republican Party is necessary.
It would not be necessary.
Ausonius: 310-395 A.D. Teacher, Poet, Consul, General, Farmer.
Personal Tutor to the future St. Paulinus of Nola and to young Gratian, heir to the throne during the turbulent final years of the Western Roman Empire. When his former student Gratian was assassinated, Ausonius threw up his hands and retired to his farm in Gaul. Rome was captured by barbarians 14 years after his death.
Cato@rock.com
AND…Know Your Czars…Before They Hit BIG BRObama’s Unemployment Line in November: http://www.czarcards.us/
And what valuable contribution has she made that will offset unleashing O-care other than having an R after her name?
General_Confusion (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 10:05AM EDT (link)I fail to see the point in continually electing what is essentially a Democrat on the R dime.
Whenever the chips were down you could count on her “caucusing “ with the Democrats.
Obama may have financially wrecked us but he had plenty of help from our RINO “go along, get along” wing. One less RINO will make no difference.
But don’t you worry, with McConnell still in leadership Reid and his Dem friends will still have all the cover they need from those icky conservatives.
Unleashing Obamacare?
sarg01 Thursday, May 17th at 5:41PM EDT (link)Every Republican in both Houses voted against Obamacare — even Snowe.
I’m not a fan, but there’s a credible case that once the Supremes toss O-care, Snowe will have been the single congressional Republican most responsible.
1. The dems wanted Snowe’s vote so they could claim it was “bipartisan”.
2. She strung them along for literally months. She almost single-handedly got them to throw out the “public option” in an attempt to snake her vote. Granted, this was painful to watch as we were all sure it was just a precursor to a cave. But there was no cave. In the end, she stood on principle and voted against it.
3. Pelosi and crew passed an even worse bill than Obamacare through the House. This bill had a severability clause/
4. Thanks to Snowe’s delaying, the Senate waited until Christmas to pass what became Obamacare. Since the intention was to conference it with the House bill in order to take the worse parts from both, no one bothered putting a severability clause in the Senate bill, as it was not intended to be a final proposal.
5. In January, Massachusetts elected Scott Brown and turned the Dems’ filibuster-proof majority into a 59-vote one.
6. Realizing they could not get a new bill through the Senate, the House (who had originally scorned the Senate bill for not throwing everyone making over $100k/year into a gulag) had to “deem and pass” it outright, with no changes at all – INCLUDING its lack of a severability clause.
Well General_Stupidity if we had three more
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 7:42PM EDT (link)RINOs in the Senate, Harry Reid would have been the minority leader and Republicans would have control over the agenda in Congress. We could have sent a budget to Obama for him to veto. Heck, we could have sent several.
We’d also have control of committees and could launch either separate investigations – or joint investigations – into Fast and Furious and the Energy Dept handing out money like dope to Obama supporters.
Demanding hard line conservatives in purple/blue states instead of people who will vote with us most of the time is an act of utter stupidity.
In a state like Indiana, it makes sense to stand up to a Lugar because the state is generally more conservative than he is and – most importantly – we have an outstanding candidate who took him out and who should win in November. We have NEITHER of those things in places like Maine or Massachusetts.
Your whole concept, with respect to Snowe specifically, is factually challenged, see sarg01′s pointed list. In addition, Snowe (and Collins) has never taken the lead to oppose positions we conservatives favor. Does she vote in opposition to us once in a while? Certainly. However, she’s never provided either the leadership or the deciding vote on any issue that was a priority to conservatives. She’s a follower and since Arlen Specter went away she’s had no one to follow.
How's Boehner majority in the House working out?
General_Confusion (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 9:19PM EDT (link)Seems like the Pelosi agenda is still firmly in place or did I miss the massive cuts (remember the House holds the purse strings – if they actually would try) or the roll backs of onerous regulations. How about actually letting failed programs sunset on their own instead of riding their rescue with NEW legislation.
Seems to me the quality of the “R” is much more important than the quantity if a good chunk of the R’s are actually D’s (aka RINO’s).
Restating may last point, why spend R resources on someone in a purple state that will only vote to advance the Dem’s agenda. Putting more “R’s” on the scoreboard while continuing to advance left accomplishes nothing. Reagan carried purple states as a conservative quite handily, perhaps if we ran a conservative it would work. But sadly we are too afraid of our own principles to try. Worse that could happen is we get a Dem with a D instead of a Dem with a R.
Lastly you are of the opinion that voting solidly with the Democrats is no biggee as long as they don’t lead. Weird point of view, but then again why would they have too, Mitch “Whatever Reid wants” McConnell has that “leadership” covered.
Anyway I’m sure the John and Mitch will get right on the debt situation just as soon as they have both chambers, they do after all have an R after their name and apparently that’s all that matters.
P.S. The deficit WILL crush the nation, we can strategize all we want but if we do not get people that will actually address the debt we are done.
Better than Pelosi's.
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 9:50PM EDT (link)And don’t get me wrong, I’m not by any stretch of the imagination defending Republican leadership. They suck.
The reality is, however, that we will never have a rock solid conservative majority in either the House or the Senate. We have to build a conservative bench in the states and keep putting more conservative members into both houses. If you want to see a model, look to the recent elections in places like KY w/ Rand Paul (like him or not, he’s a good model of success) plus the recent primaries in IN and NE. I would also pick out MA as a good model for blue states, and say what you will about Scott Brown he’s one hell of a lot better than Teddy or Lizzie.
Right now, for another example, Arizona is a good example, we’ve moved from a pretty liberal Democrat dominated Congressional delegation to one of the more conservative delegations in the House. In addition, Jon Kyl, no real prize, is going to be replaced by a significantly more conservative Republican Senator no matter who wins in Republican primary. We’ve got a good shot at picking up Gabby Giffords’ seat in a special election with a great candidate, Jesse Kelly, who lost a narrow election in ’10.
Bottom line here, is that you obviously don’t have a clue about how to build a working majority. All you’re doing is whining with absolutely no strategy or tactics that make any sense at all. Basically, you’re a troll and you’re fully a part of the problem, not a part of the solution.
Another analysis based on a toxic combination of
mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 10:27PM EDT (link)ignorance and stupidity.
Absolute nothing in your little screed is relevant to Dan’s post or his point. I’d detail just how stupid your “analysis” is, but it’s a waste of time because you’re incapable of even trying to understand what the real world is like.
Seriously the attempts at flamebaiting me is getting more than a little old
garfieldjl (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 3:52PM EDT (link)What I posted is quite relevant when one looks at the post I was responding to.
Taking things out of context is a cliche at this point mbecker.
Not nealy as old as you flaunting
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 4:25PM EDT (link)your ignorance and stupidity.
C'mon becker...
gekster (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 4:29PM EDT (link)he’s the most conservative poster on this site.
Or so I’ve been told.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
I’ve gone from
“Hope and Change” to
“Hopeless and Changeless”
Need some tissues?
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 4:40PM EDT (link)A hug? A corner to weep in?
Stupid gets treated like stupid, so not sure why you are complaining about the way you are treated. Being on the “spectrum’ you should have seen it coming with your “awesome” insight.
You know if you keep acting like Chris Matthews, odds are you are going to end up humiliated like him
garfieldjl (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 4:47PM EDT (link)Like what happened to him on Jeopardy for instance.
You're batting .000 so far.
gekster (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 4:51PM EDT (link)You just don’t have a clue, do you.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
I’ve gone from
“Hope and Change” to
“Hopeless and Changeless”
You could
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 5:39PM EDT (link)not humiliate anyone so I have nothing to fear.
It's bunny time!
mbecker908 (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 6:45PM EDT (link)Which won’t be any time soon.
PowerToThePeople, please try to stay on topic with the diary.
Stricia Thursday, May 17th at 5:23PM EDT (link)I noticed the other 2 stooges (gekster and mbecker) are also in-the-house. If one were to add the 3 of your I.Q. scores together — the result would have David Wechsler turning over in his grave.
Stricia, the site pest !
And the peanut gallery chimes in.
gekster (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 5:27PM EDT (link)I never claimed to be smart.
But I ain’t stupid.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
I’ve gone from
“Hope and Change” to
“Hopeless and Changeless”
gekster you do realize...
garfieldjl (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 5:31PM EDT (link)“ain’t” is a double negative.
You basically called yourself stupid…
Anyways, I honestly don’t think you are stupid gekster, I just think you are very impulsive and don’t stop to consider other possible explanations for something.
I knew what I was saying when I said it.
gekster (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 5:49PM EDT (link)Case in point, i keep replying to you.
But you are fun to play with, just ask the other Stooges.
And I want to be Curly.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
I’ve gone from
“Hope and Change” to
“Hopeless and Changeless”
Garfieldjl, point of historical grammar.
avgjo (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 6:12PM EDT (link)‘Ain’t’ is the old contraction of ‘am not’.
Technically, it is correct (though very obsolete) to say ‘I ain’t', to mean ‘I am not’.
It would only be a double negative IF it were followed by another negative, like
‘I ain’t not stupid.’
I ain’t not stupid = I am not not stupid = I am stupid.
Not trying to nitpick. But ‘ain’t’ is a word of special interest to me.
Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.
It’s the morality, stupid.
And yet
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 5:41PM EDT (link)the IQ would still surpass yours easily. It is cool though you finally learned how to turn on your computer without any help. Reach for the stars………….
We often disagree, but
Flagstaff (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 1:48AM EDT (link)this is right on target.
Not that I know that’s what they think about the pipeline, but I think putting up a good fight and losing would indeed be helpful. Maybe even better than winning. Maybe that’s what they’re afraid of–winning. We both know nothing Obama/Reid doesn’t want will get through the Senate, anyway.
The 2012 October surprise may be a decision by Obie to allow the pipeline.
Buffett Rule #1: “Tax rates don’t matter if you don’t pay your taxes”
– Unnamed tax adviser to Warren Buffett, Leavenworth, KS, 2011
Buffett Rule #2: “A parrot in every pot and two Volts in every garage”– Jimmy Buffett, at a seance in Margaritaville, 1977
Enough
exrayman4000 Wednesday, May 16th at 5:41PM EDT (link)Our elected members of congress need to stop listening to the media, their not you’re friends anyway. Man up and be statesmen and leaders.
definition of Politician
talgus Wednesday, May 16th at 5:57PM EDT (link)creator and implementer of ways to enslave future generations with responsibility for the dollars you use to buy votes today.
There are some that do not, but most go along to get along.
No "significant" difference between
krish (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 6:13PM EDT (link)most republicans & the dems…everyday there is one issue or other .. republicans support Dems liberal policies or even in some cases propose new spending!!
I am Not buying any more of this crap from conservative media & other shills on RS who say nothing can be done by the republican leadership because republicans control only one chamber!
Unless they are thorwn out, things will not change! Things have to get worse before it can get better……I hope many of these RINOs lose the elections ….will be tough for them to come back ! That is the only way we can get conservatives in the ballot. Primaries within republican party is so rigged that it will be impossible to get rid of McConnell, Boehner, Cantor etc. We need an assist from Dems to throw out these bums once & for all for the good of the country!
Both Keystone and killing MAP-21 are critical
evilbloggerlady Wednesday, May 16th at 7:02PM EDT (link)Republicans better demand that Keystone be in it. Yes that is a critical issue.
But this MAP-21 black box proposal is nuts. Every freedom loving American should be hitting the roof over this. It is a really bad bad idea. It is expensive, you know your insurance company and the cops will use it to hammer you on claims and tickets, and they make it criminal to disable the darn thing.
We have been hammering Obama more effectively this week than ever, rolling over on the high way bill would be very stupid and short sighted.
Wake up Republicans.
The problem with the republican party.
ghostship Wednesday, May 16th at 7:21PM EDT (link)Is that it doesn’t even try to stop the left’s agenda and certainly wouldn’t even think try to reverse the left’s gains. At most it believes that all it can do is slow down the left and delay the nations demise.
This is not a party that fights to win but to only delay the announcement of its defeat. It’s an attitude of defeatism and it’s no wonder that one of the greatest problems the GOP keeps facing is trying to figure out how to get conservatives to bother to vote for a party that at best can only promise to suck a little bit less than the democrats.
The republican party needs to change to a party that fights to win or the party will truly become irrelevant.
I look forward
cactusjack Wednesday, May 16th at 7:41PM EDT (link)Actually Mitt Romney is on record – check it -that should he be elected, he will sign the executive approvals on Keystone Pipeline, day one. I look forward, then, to holding his feet to the fire. But how strange it will be if it is a centrist Republican President who is having to fight a bunch of Dems and Repub Squishes on something that is so clearly right for America on so many levels.
Don't bet your house on it!
krish (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 8:48PM EDT (link)Holding Mitt’s feet to the fire? With the current Republican leadership & how Mitt caved when he was MA governor, you might want to lower your expectations!! There is a reason why Mitt is called Etch a Sketch candidate & flip flopper
Not betting on it, just remarking on the irony of it
cactusjack Wednesday, May 16th at 10:11PM EDT (link)if our hopes in 2012 are pinned on Romney and SCOTUS, to keep a rogue RINO “republican”house and senate in check. See checkmate’s comment below about the “secret” Republican version of Obamacare that may be waiting in the wings. I dont know how things could get worse.
The only way for *conservatives* to win, cactusjack...
acat (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 10:18PM EDT (link)is President Romney .. but Senate Majority Leader (anybody but McConnell)
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
The thought of a wild eyed firebrand Tea Party-
cactusjack Wednesday, May 16th at 11:10PM EDT (link)approved Senator as new Senate Majority Leader for 2013 is…….especially a soothing and comforting thought as a protection against uncertainty from the WH and treachery from he House, on Obamacare and debt limits. But come to think of it acat I think I **would** as you mentioned take just about anyone but McConnell under the circumstances.
Keystone cave is zip if Rep secret Healthcare plan is true!
checkmate2012 (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 9:45PM EDT (link)Heard on it on Mark Levin and went to Politico to read the article that we don’t know if it’s true or not. It will cause head explosions if it is true so my comments assume it is true, for now.
It is beyond me why the Republican’s would step into the healthcare debate at all before the election, especially if the Supremes toss it out 100%, knowing too that it’s so unpopular with most Americans!
Read the whole article here and below are a a few quotes from it: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76422.html
Supposedly, Boehner has a plan to keep certain popular items of the bill EVEN IF it is completely overturned by the Supreme Court such as kids on parent’s plan until 26 and pre-existing conditions. Per the article, ” Ripping these provisions from law is too politically risky, Republicans say”.
The last paragraph in the article is really telling in that they are more afraid of being called names by O and the Left than actually making the right decision.
“First, if the law’s popular insurance provisions are struck, Republicans know Democrats are going to blame them for “putting insurance companies back in charge”
I really hope that Politico made the whole story up. If not, heads should roll, Boehner’s first. We should not make any concessions this summer. Insanity if this is their playbook!
At some point....
tnguy Wednesday, May 16th at 9:50PM EDT (link)…even the diehards here will realize that holding the nose to vote for (R)s like Boehner is a tragic mistake.
“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.”
I don't see much popularity for Boehner on RS!
checkmate2012 (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 9:55PM EDT (link)Most say, and I totally agree, nothing much will change with him as the leader and he must go.
Conservatives blew health care under W
acat (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 10:23PM EDT (link)Had we done *something* on healthcare during the period where we had a President (described as a conservative…) and control of the House and Senate … we wouldn’t be here today.
If there is a Republican health care plan, I want to see the details … one thing Perot got right is that the devil is in the details.
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
A GOP health plan should start with
Dave_A (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 11:55PM EDT (link)An end to any preferential tax treatment for group health insurance plans, a 100% deduction for individually purchased insurance, and a provision to allow employers to tax-deduct money offered to employees for the purpose of purchasing INDIVIDUAL insurance policies.
IAW, if your employer continues to offer a present-day-style group-purchasing-plan, that should be taxed as income for you, and not tax deductible as an expense for the employer.
The first step to getting health costs under control, is to eliminate all ‘purchasing pools’ in the system.
Every health insurance policy should be either an individual policy or a family policy. Just like car insurance.
Policy prices should consider lifestyle decisions, and a physical exam should be part of the issuing process.
Then instead of this hogwash about covering pre-existing conditions, require coverage of pre-COVERED conditions (eg, if you had insurance before & switched, any condition covered by your old policy should still be covered with no surcharge)….
THAT is the first step to fixing this mess…
The problem is pool-purchasing (just like the problem with education costs is student loans).
Economic illiteracy does not serve our cause – seeing inflation where there is none, claiming ‘the deficit’ is raising the price of oil, or adhering to conspiracy theories such as the notion that the Fed’s purpose is to enable government spending….
The truth is just as damning to the Democrats – namely that their policies are the reason that the very ‘speculators’ (futures traders) they demonize are bidding higher prices for oil.
it would be "Bushcare"!
krish (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 5:49PM EDT (link)going by GWs record….remember Drug plan for seniors …it would have been another “government program”…would have been better than Obamacare. GW Bush is a “faux” conservative – his image as a conservative was protected by conservatie media such as Rush, Hanity & few others. It is time to stop protecting & supporting the RINOs if we want to save the country.
Repeal Obamacare 100% ...
Freedoms Truth (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 10:43PM EDT (link)Clean sheet of paper and start from scratch. Precaving on those giveaways is absurd, and I dont care how ‘popular’ keeping kids on insurance until they are 26 is, that’s the most thing I have ever heard and it costs companies big $$$s, the kind of $$$s that kills jobs.
Freedoms Truth,
Travis Monitor – http://travismonitor.blogspot.com
Austin, TX
That one, Freedoms Truth, is a weak argument, fiscally.
acat (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 11:03PM EDT (link)Perpetual college students and slackers tend to be profit centers for medical insurance pools.
Let’s not forget how this works, okay? They pay in, they don’t (usually) receive much care.
The better argument is to tax health insurance premiums paid by corporations as income, encouraging insurance pools to form among bowling leagues, churches, whatever.
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
Purchasing coalition options are now limited under law, acat
lineholder (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 11:08PM EDT (link)In some states, it’s no more than 50 people per coalition.
If we could get that changed, it could open up some options that we don’t have at the present time. I agree with the idea of it.
The only solution is to destroy all pools...
Dave_A (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 11:56PM EDT (link)And encourage individual policy purchasing.
Economic illiteracy does not serve our cause – seeing inflation where there is none, claiming ‘the deficit’ is raising the price of oil, or adhering to conspiracy theories such as the notion that the Fed’s purpose is to enable government spending….
The truth is just as damning to the Democrats – namely that their policies are the reason that the very ‘speculators’ (futures traders) they demonize are bidding higher prices for oil.
All that does, Dave_A, is to create a single pool...
acat (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 6:30AM EDT (link)and lead to arguments that Person A is paying for Person B’s lifestyle choices….
Better to let pools form more freely. “Join our gym, join our insurance program!” or “Our airline mileage club has a new benefit .. health coverage tailored for the traveler!”….
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
It doesn't pool anyone.... Each citizen pays for their own policy.
Dave_A (Diary) Saturday, May 19th at 1:23AM EDT (link)The fact of life, is that the EXISTENCE of pooled coverage is the PRIMARY FACTOR in the ever-rising cost of care.
We need to get rid of pooled coverage, and to do it right we need to do so without actually banning it (too authoritarian – that’s what Dems would do)…
That means we open it up to full-rate taxation.
The end-result is that each person pays for their OWN care, and that rate is based on their OWN lifestyle.
No pooling, beyond the inherent nature of an insurance policy in general.
Just like car insurance – something that has gotten cheaper due to massive & aggressive competition.
We need to unleash competition & market pricing forces on the health-insurance industry.
We need to change insurance from a system where everyone in the pool pays the same…
To one where a healthy lifestyle leads to a super-low rate, and an unhealthy lifestyle leads to a very high rate.
Kind of like a good driving record vs being the prince of DUIs….
Economic illiteracy does not serve our cause – seeing inflation where there is none, claiming ‘the deficit’ is raising the price of oil, or adhering to conspiracy theories such as the notion that the Fed’s purpose is to enable government spending….
The truth is just as damning to the Democrats – namely that their policies are the reason that the very ‘speculators’ (futures traders) they demonize are bidding higher prices for oil.
Maybe I am not understanding
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Saturday, May 19th at 2:06AM EDT (link)your version of “pooled’ insurance, but if I am correct that you mean where a group of people gather together to get a policy for them all, you would be wrong that it drives up cost. Let me explain:
I have insurance on myself and everyone else at the company. We pay a percent of the cost, the rest is deducted from the employee pay every pay check. They are given multiple options from single coverage to family coverage, just medical to everything, and from silver plans to gold plans. Each represents a different cost and different coverage.
All the plans have certain criteria, kids are covered under the family plan until either 18 I believe or till they graduate college or 26 whichever comes first. Any signs of illicit drugs during blood work while under care, coverage is terminated. Suicide causes the life insurance to be voided. And so on.
We have every age, sex, nationality, and health type in the company. There is not a single person there that could get the same coverage for the price they get it via the company even if they had to pay the company share. So the cost is much cheaper for the consumer because we have bought in mass.
As to the insurance companies, they fight every renewal period for our business because it is a cash cow for them. The markup on family is amazingly high and yet most of the families seldom need the coverage due to kids never getting sick or injured. The few employees that do need the insurance are more than covered by the many who do not and year after year never use it. But to say, person A pays for person B maybe accurate in the most strictest of senses, but because person A, B, C, D, ..H>>>>>Z and on have bundled together to buy a plan, the overall cost to every person is much cheaper.
This is why pooling is an awesome way to gain insurance especially in the non employee way. Like minded people who have similar lifestyles can join together to get bundled plans bringing down the individual cost. Since you can determine guidelines with the issuing insurance agent, premium increases can be avoided at the signing of the contract if private pooling individuals do their homework upfront.
The only way pooling could be cheaper for both the individual and the group is if regulations were lifted so that health insurance could be sold across state lines causing more competition hence even lower prices.
All this applies unless of course I do not understand what you mean by pooling which is a very good possibility.
You understand what I mean about pooling, but you do NOT understand the harmful impacts it has.
Dave_A (Diary) Saturday, May 19th at 2:47PM EDT (link)When I am talking about pooling, I am talking about selling health insurance to a ‘group’ for the same price to each individual regardless of the cost to insure that person.
This may SEEM to make INSURANCE less expensive, but the reality is it makes it MORE expensive over-all.
The one-size-fits-all plans sold then make CARE more expensive, as well (by completely divorcing the cost of care from consumption of care).
How does pooling fuel the rising cost (and it does, the only other major driver is tort costs/malpractice insurance)?
Simply put, it completely separates the financial cost of care from the person who is recieving the care.
Weigh 300lbs, smoke 2 packs a day & drink a 6-pack on weekends? Congrats, you pay the same as the guy who doesn’t smoke, weighs 185, and has never had a drink in his life…
THAT is what’s wrong with pooling.
The way it should be? Every person buys their own insurance, which requires a physical, lifestyle questionnaire, and drug-test. The price is based on the result of those three things. Lying on the questionnaire – like lying when buying a homeowner’s policy – leads to being dropped or denied coverage…
Now, this won’t reduce costs for EVERYONE – but it will reduce them for those who live a healthy lifestyle. As an added incentive, it might cause some folks to change a habit or two to get cheaper insurance.
Employers could still contribute – for example, via payments to an FSA – but there would be no buying of insurance for an entire group anymore.
Prices would go down.
The only reason we don’t see this now, is that individual coverage is the exception, not the norm – thanks to preferential treatment in the tax code for group plans.
It works for car insurance.
It will work for health insurance.
Economic illiteracy does not serve our cause – seeing inflation where there is none, claiming ‘the deficit’ is raising the price of oil, or adhering to conspiracy theories such as the notion that the Fed’s purpose is to enable government spending….
The truth is just as damning to the Democrats – namely that their policies are the reason that the very ‘speculators’ (futures traders) they demonize are bidding higher prices for oil.
Here's a very good diary on Pooling and why it's BAD
Dave_A (Diary) Saturday, May 19th at 3:30PM EDT (link)http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/05/18/we-must-end-gov%e2%80%99t-bias-towards-employer-provided-health-coverage/
Economic illiteracy does not serve our cause – seeing inflation where there is none, claiming ‘the deficit’ is raising the price of oil, or adhering to conspiracy theories such as the notion that the Fed’s purpose is to enable government spending….
The truth is just as damning to the Democrats – namely that their policies are the reason that the very ‘speculators’ (futures traders) they demonize are bidding higher prices for oil.
This issue isn't as cut and dry as you make it out to be
garfieldjl (Diary) Saturday, May 19th at 4:22PM EDT (link)If a company offers their employees and insurance plan, that is the Company’s decision not yours, not mine, further there are some companies that offer health insurance for their employees’ immediate families. It is easier for a company to negotiate a lower premium with a health insurer because of their purchasing power and the risk is significantly less. You know how things tend to be cheaper when they are bought in bulk, well that’s basically what goes on with large corporations purchasing health insurance, they are buying policies in bulk.
It is my stance that small businesses should be allowed to get together and purchase health insurance for their employees as though they were are a large company, which would enable them to get the lower rates as though they were a large scale company, when in reality they are just a bunch of small businesses that are only connected by the fact they all got their insurance policy from the same firm. This would solve a lot of the problems for people getting insurance.
We don’t need a Government mandate, to force people to get insurance. The one thing I will argue is when it comes to pre-existing conditions, the insurance company shouldn’t have to pay for the expenses of said condition for 5 years (barring a childhood condition that they are getting insurance after having been on parents’ insurance).
My idea is that people that don’t want to buy insurance, don’t have to, however they also have to deal with the consequences (such as medical bills) and can’t simply just suddenly go out and get insurance and then expect said company to pay for everything.
That’s all that really has to be done, no mandates, just people making their own choices and having to deal with the consequences.
As far as insane rate hikes, allow insurance companies to compete across state lines. If 3 insurance companies were operating in a state before and then they suddenly have to deal with 997 new competitors, if they treat their customers well, then nothing happens, but if they are hosing their customers, they will suddenly find themselves out of business.
Obamacare leads to the exact opposite of what needs to be done, Government Controlling healthcare is going to be a disaster, I trust insurance companies with catching people committing fraud a lot more than the Government.
In this case, bulk-purchasing drives UP the price, it doesn't lower it...
Dave_A (Diary) Saturday, May 19th at 6:21PM EDT (link)First off, it’s a private choice to provide employee insurance as a benefit. But it’s a public choice to make this tax-deductible for the employer and non-taxed-income for the employee.
Tax it all with no deductions, and it will go away….
AS FOR THE REST:
If the bulk-buyer is also the consumer, and the product is composed of physical goods, what you say is true – a bulk-discount can be had with no externalities.
However, when talking about a META-SERVICE (eg, a service that pays for the use of other services), and when the buyer and the user are completely separate, bulk-buying creates a market anomaly…
Specifically, a case where the USER of the service has an ‘unlimited’ pocketbook (because they pay the same if they use health care every day, vs if they never use it), and thus there is no demand-side pressure to keep prices down.
Because the ‘price’ for health insurance is the same for all consumers in any given pool, no matter what lifestyle they and their family live, and no matter how much nonemergency health-care they uise, there is NO INCENTIVE TO KEEP HEALTH COSTS DOWN.
None.
That outweighs whatever ‘bulk discount’ a company gets on insurance.
We have 2 cases where this is happening:
Student Loans
Health Insurance
In both cases, the bulk-buying/pooling is increasing the costs, not lowering them…
End-user costs rise, so insurance costs rise, and it just keeps spiraling.
If you ever ask yourself ‘Why is car-insurance not spiraling out of control, but health-insurance is… This is why.
Car-insurance is purchased as an individual or immediate-family plan.
Good drivers (like healthy-living people) pay less. People who make less claims pay less (like people who only go to the doctor when they’re really sick)… National competition, combined with the fact that your use of the policy determines your price (the more expensive you are to insure, the more you pay) keep costs down.
It works.
We need to have health insurance use the same model.
Economic illiteracy does not serve our cause – seeing inflation where there is none, claiming ‘the deficit’ is raising the price of oil, or adhering to conspiracy theories such as the notion that the Fed’s purpose is to enable government spending….
The truth is just as damning to the Democrats – namely that their policies are the reason that the very ‘speculators’ (futures traders) they demonize are bidding higher prices for oil.
I don't have a huge problem with this.
Bill S (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 12:12AM EDT (link)Those items are not deal breakers and if it helps kill the Dem retorts about the repeal, then that’s ok with me. In particular, the preexisitng condition rule is wildly popular and could be a huge weapon to swing public opinion.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
It sounds like a great idea.....
rightwingnut2 (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 12:26AM EDT (link)…except that it will cause premiums to go through the roof. If I’m a healthy 27 year old single guy, why should I buy insurance?
Not the strongest example, rightwingnut2...
acat (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 6:34AM EDT (link)The healthy 40-year-old is a better one…. “If anything happens, I’ll use my smart phone to get a policy on my way to the E.R.”
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
The 26-yr-old thing is already in effect.
Bill S (Diary) Thursday, May 17th at 7:59AM EDT (link)And I’m not certain, but I believe the pre-existing conditions part kicks in next year, so I’d bet you premiums have already risen for that.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
The correct 'rule' if we are to have one, is coverage of pre-covered conditions, not pre-coverage ones.
Dave_A (Diary) Saturday, May 19th at 3:32PM EDT (link)Eg, a new insurer must cover everything that existed under your prior policy.
Covering conditions that pre-date HAVING coverage of any kind, should not be required.
So the compromise is to require coverage of anything you developed/had while insured by a prior carrier.
It will encourage competition by making it easier to switch, as a side-benefit….
Economic illiteracy does not serve our cause – seeing inflation where there is none, claiming ‘the deficit’ is raising the price of oil, or adhering to conspiracy theories such as the notion that the Fed’s purpose is to enable government spending….
The truth is just as damning to the Democrats – namely that their policies are the reason that the very ‘speculators’ (futures traders) they demonize are bidding higher prices for oil.
This is portability or its equivalent, right?
Viet71 (Diary) Saturday, May 19th at 4:14PM EDT (link)n/t
I think it should be geared slightly differently
garfieldjl (Diary) Saturday, May 19th at 4:30PM EDT (link)If it was covered by a prior insurer, then they have to cover that pre-existing condition immediately.
If they are just now getting insurance and have a pre-existing condition (no prior coverage, or they didn’t get insurance after they got off parent’s insurance), then they have to wait let’s say 5 years for the insurance company to have to pick up the tab on said condition. Till that time period is up, they are responsible for the health care bills associated with that particular condition.
I think that would be more reasonable, so that people can’t spontaneously go and get insurance after they’ve just been diagnosed with something and expect the insurer to pay for the bills, while making sure that if they decide to get insurance it isn’t a pointless exercise at that point.
That would be a workable compromise...
Dave_A (Diary) Saturday, May 19th at 6:22PM EDT (link)If only we could get the Dems to accept it…
Economic illiteracy does not serve our cause – seeing inflation where there is none, claiming ‘the deficit’ is raising the price of oil, or adhering to conspiracy theories such as the notion that the Fed’s purpose is to enable government spending….
The truth is just as damning to the Democrats – namely that their policies are the reason that the very ‘speculators’ (futures traders) they demonize are bidding higher prices for oil.
Highway bill
norris Wednesday, May 16th at 10:54PM EDT (link)We need the keystone pipeline for jobs and energy independence . We do not need the federal government paying for state roads. We do not need black boxes in our cars. Cut the bill to the bare bones or let it die on the vine.
Those 'black boxes' (I assume you mean OBDII and CAN-based ECU systems) are far better than the old way
Dave_A (Diary) Wednesday, May 16th at 11:59PM EDT (link)Of horrid mazes of vacuum lines & analog circuitry…
And building roads is a Constitutional power of the federal government…
Now, there are some cases, where IMHO the Feds should withhold funds – such as any road that has tolls, or any road with HOV/HOT or other restricted lanes… If states want to pull that garbage, they should have to pay the entire costs themselves.
Economic illiteracy does not serve our cause – seeing inflation where there is none, claiming ‘the deficit’ is raising the price of oil, or adhering to conspiracy theories such as the notion that the Fed’s purpose is to enable government spending….
The truth is just as damning to the Democrats – namely that their policies are the reason that the very ‘speculators’ (futures traders) they demonize are bidding higher prices for oil.
The black box
norris Thursday, May 17th at 3:56PM EDT (link)I was referring to is a tracking device that tells where your car has been how fast you drove and how many times you stopped during your trip.
The 'black box' is merely a long-overdue upgrade to OBDII.
Dave_A (Diary) Saturday, May 19th at 3:48PM EDT (link)Your car currently *has* a ‘black box’ that records it’s engine activity, as it is…
The system is called OBDII and it’s very useful for repairing a malfunctionig car.
However, it was fielded in 1996, and is based on early 90s/late-80s technology.
This means, among other things, that the data it records is very limited, it only does so at the instant of a malfunction, and it ‘forgets’ the data if the vehicle loses electrical power (because it uses RAM, not flash-memory, for storage).
A similar system, designed with 2000-and-newere tech, would be able to log engine activity (which includes speed, braking, gear and RPMs) for an entire trip, and to show exactly at what operating parameters a malfunction was indicated (Rather than just setting a code & periodically polling to see if the code was still valid)….
This would make repairing said cars much, much easier.
As a sideline, the same data also would indicate how a given car was being driven prior to a given event to anyone concerned with that sort of info – for example your insurance company (Progressive currently markets an add-on device that interfaces with OBDII to record such data, and give ‘good’ drivers an insurance discount based on the device’s report) and investigating authorities.
But that’s life, and I’d rather have the enhanced diagnostic capability, than privacy produced by the limits of obsolete computer hardware.
Since the Feds currently drive the OBD requirements, industry will not update until the regulation is changed (a phenomenon called Regulatory Capture)…. This is done by the EPA, as it happens – since OBD and mandatory computerization of cars was driven as an emissions-control measure.
So I’m not exactly opposed to the government updating the regs and specifying a more powerful computer to run & diagnose my car.
Economic illiteracy does not serve our cause – seeing inflation where there is none, claiming ‘the deficit’ is raising the price of oil, or adhering to conspiracy theories such as the notion that the Fed’s purpose is to enable government spending….
The truth is just as damning to the Democrats – namely that their policies are the reason that the very ‘speculators’ (futures traders) they demonize are bidding higher prices for oil.