Fight.


“If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”

— Winston Churchill

“If the Republicans want the news media to cover what they are doing to educate the American people even further about the atrociousness of this bill, they have to create drama on the floor of the Senate.”

The Founding Fathers created a Republic, but 60 Senators are poised to take it away. With the pending disaster of the passage in the Senate of a bill nationalizing one sixth of the U.S. economy and our entire healthcare system at a cost of over $2.5 trillion, we are faced with a crucial question: are the Republican senators using every means at their disposal to stop this looming, tyrannical abuse of power? Unfortunately, the answer appears to be “no.”

The Senate, unlike the House of Representatives, has parliamentary rules and procedures that give the minority the ability to stall legislation. In fact, unlike the House, the minority have the ability to virtually paralyze the Senate. Doing so is not something we would want or expect for every bad bill that comes through Congress, but the proposed healthcare legislation is probably the worst piece of legislation ever considered by the United States Congress. It is the most intrusive, most damaging, most costly, most dangerous bill to the economic and personal freedom and liberty of individual Americans that Congress has ever considered. If there is any bill that deserves being stopped by shutting down the Senate, it is this one.

There are a whole series of parliamentary maneuvers that could be used by Republican senators to stop this bill. There is a hard backstop to the current process (Christmas). The Republicans’ goal should be to prevent Reid from passing the bill before that time. If he goes past Christmas and is forced to adjourn or recess, the momentum will shift in favor of those opposing the bill.

How could this be done?

To start with, they should stop constantly agreeing to “unanimous consent” requests from the Democrats. Senate Republicans, to date, have allowed Democrats, by unanimous consent, to process 10 amendments. The amendments that have been accepted – Democrat amendments – did not make the over 2000-page atrocity any better. The Republican strategy of trying to pass their own “message” amendments carries no message unless you consider “no strategy to kill the bill” a message. There are no amendments that could possibly make this bill a palatable piece of legislation – and any amendments the Republicans get passed that supposedly make the bill “better” may just make it easier for the Democrats to get final passage. If the Republicans want the news media to cover what they are doing to educate the American people even further about the atrociousness of this bill, they have to create drama on the floor of the Senate. And the only way to do that is through an all-out fight with no holds barred. They need to look like Braveheart, fighting to the end to save freedom. Because, in fact, it is our very freedom and liberty that is at stake.

The most powerful words in the Senate are “I object.” Senate Republicans should have been shouting those two words on the Senate floor early and often from the moment this bill was considered, instead of the complete silence we have heard – other than to constantly agree to conduct business through unanimous consent. Here are just a few ways those words can (and should) be used in a very effective way:

The rules of the Senate require that a quorum be present to transact business. A quorum is 51 Senators. In most instances, outside of roll call votes, there are no more than 4 Senators on the Senate floor. If a Republican Senator suggested the absence of a quorum, Democrats could not transact business on the bill. It is a common courtesy to allow the quorum call to be dispensed with, without requiring 51 members to show up on the Senate floor (to get 51 Senators to appear without a roll call vote is very time consuming). When the Democrats ask unanimous consent that the quorum call be dispensed with, the Republican should immediately shout “I object.”

In 1988, when the Democrats were attempting to pass campaign finance reform, and Republicans refused to help them make a quorum, it took 53 hours for the quorum call to be dispensed with. If at any moment at least 50 Democrats are not on the floor, a Republican Senator could again suggest the absence of a quorum and start the process over again, causing huge delays in the legislative process being able to move forward.

No amendment can automatically or without substantial delay receive a roll call vote without every member of the Senate agreeing. Again, the Senate generally operates on collegial courtesy, but a $2.5 trillion courtesy is too much. Once an amendment is pending, it only takes one Senator to step in front of this freight train. If a Senator objects to ending debate on the amendment or having the amendment set aside, the majority must file cloture on the amendment. First cloture has to ripen and it cannot ripen until the next day’s session of the Senate, so that kills a day of the majority’s time. Assuming 60 Senators vote in favor of ending debate, the Senate is then required to spend 30 hours of its session time before voting on final passage for the amendment. Suffice it to say, if the Republicans had continuously objected from the start, the ten amendments they allowed the majority to process would have taken more days than Harry Reid has on the Senate calendar.

Senators have an obligation to protect the Constitution and the budget and points of order can be raised on both. Many constitutional scholars have pointed out that numerous bill provisions, particularly the individual mandate, are unconstitutional. Under the Senate’s rules, constitutional points of order are debatable. The Republicans should be constantly bringing up constitutional points of order, one after another, on every questionable provision. Reid would presumably be forced to file cloture on the points of order and another three days could be burned up on each one.

The healthcare bill violates § 425(a)(2) of the Budget Act, which prohibits consideration of any legislation that contains an unfunded intergovernmental mandate in excess of $69 million per year. If the point of order is raised and sustained, a simple majority may vote to waive the point of order. But the waiver is debatable and thus would presumably require 60 votes to cloture the motion to waive. This would require them to produce 60 votes at a time when they do not have their deal wrapped up yet, once again burning up three days.

On every vote, including on constantly raised points of order, the Republicans should be objecting that the vote total is incomplete – the Democratic Chair will rule that it is complete and the Republicans then appeal and once again force a vote, delaying the process again and again.

The Republicans should be offering one amendment after another on all of their favorite issues such as guns, abortion, elimination of the death tax, ending the TARP program, and gay marriage in the District of Columbia. Nothing connotes trench warfare like non-germane amendments on hot-button social issues. When you look back at all of the great filibusters of past decades, they almost always involved non-germane, explosive amendments on contentious social and other issues. Republicans should be offering hundreds of such amendments on every topic and using the rules to force votes on every single one. And the Republicans should be forcing the reading of the bill and every single amendment, not consenting to waiving that requirement.

Some might argue that Republicans should not look “obstructionist.” But they are wrong – the vast majority of Americans don’t like this bill and don’t want it to pass. The Tea Party movement was the upheaval of millions of ordinary Americans who are scared and angry about the out-of-control growth of the federal government, federal spending, and the national debt. They want to see the Republicans obstructing passage of this bill and if they think the Republicans are not fighting with every tool they have at their disposal, then any advantage that the Republicans think they will get in next year’s elections from such a bill being passed will evaporate. Conservatives will mount challenges to what they see as weak Republicans, just like what happened in New York’s special congressional race, helping Democrats eek out wins. And other conservative will stay home (like they did in 2008) rather than support GOP incumbents who did not fight.

The view coming out of the Senate of the Republicans has the appearance of business-as-usual – colloquies, speeches, and unanimous consent agreements. It does not convey the sense of urgency that should come with an issue of this magnitude and it does not provide any assurance to the public, including most especially the conservative base that is the heart of the Republican Party, that Republican Senators are willing to do everything it takes to stop this bill. If they don’t starting acting forcefully quickly and immediately, not only will they allow the country’s future to be unalterably damaged, they will be hastening the end to their own careers in the elections coming down the road faster than they can imagine.

Finally, I often hear that Senators express frustration when we dare to tell them how to fight, and that their frequent refrain is “you just don’t understand how the Senate works.” Actually some of us understand better than they do how it should work (whether they agree with every particular parliamentary tactic described or not), and the current frustration they feel with us will be nothing like what they may feel if they don’t stop this bill at all costs and act to preserve our Republic.

“A Republic, if you can keep it.”

— Benjamin Franklin


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Senate Dems Defeat GOP Attempt to Filibuster $1.1T Spending Bill

izoneguy (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 12:28PM EST (link)

Thanks a lot Joe……

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/12/senate-poised-advance-t-spending/

Creeping closer & closer to socialism……

There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.

Can we hit Shelby and Snowe now

Richard Mullins (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 12:43PM EST (link)

I really need to beat him and Snowe for their votes on cloture. We did get a few donks, but those idiots need to be taught a lesson.

Richard Phillip Mullins BlogThe Squash Satire SiteNews on Happy Jet Airlines
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Joe Biden is like a Decrepit Park owner with a Meth lab that happens to not only be a dealer but a user.

Let’s Bankrupt the Democratic paty. Make spend all the money to defend thier candidates.

The problem isn't Shelby and Snowe.

mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 12:57PM EST (link)

It’s McConnell etal.

There is no leadership in the party.

 
 
 

Gutless. Wonders.

Bill S (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 12:39PM EST (link)

Led by Mitch McConnell, the biggest eunuch of the bunch. This is the biggest bunch of pussified wimps that I’ve seen in my life. What the HELL do they think they’re accomplishing by rolling over to this bunch of socialist punks?

It just pisses me off more every time you post on this. But frankly, if McConnell is the best we can do for “leadership”, we deserve to have our asses kicked, as we obviously don’t have the brains to put a better leader in place.

Gutless. Cowardly. Wimps.

“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins

McConnell's Office told Rush that

GregInFla (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 12:50PM EST (link)

they were trying to slow down the bill. Rush criticized McConnell, and he got this response. I just wonder what McConnell thinks “slowing down” really means. What school did he go to?


– A true evolutionist would let endangered species die off. Think about it.
– The sign outside the courthouse said no signs allowed. So I took it down.
– Atlas Shrugged is now on the non-fiction aisle at Amazon.

The school that the little yellow bus took him to

Scope (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 1:55PM EST (link)
 

Yeah...and don't even mentiopn doing anything to change any of this because you'll be accused of trying to elect Democrats...

AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 12:53PM EST (link)

and being a purist…and being dangerous for the party…

just shut up and get in line!

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

Yeah- What's up with that Ace

Scope (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 2:04PM EST (link)

Although EE diaries over the past few days all seem to be saying the same thing you have for quite a while. I think our leader has gotten pretty mad, and, is giving it all he’s got. Helps when your voice is becoming more and more influential nationwide.

yeah...I've been demeaned and belittled for standing my ground.....

AceInTX (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 2:23PM EST (link)

when I saw this coming…this is as predictable as the sun coming up in the east and the sun setting in the west…

the current backlash against the Dems was predictable as well. They’ve been laid at the feet of the Republican Establishment’s feet like a big fat juicy goose on a silver platter and all they have to do is carve them up and all the Republican Establishment seems to want to do is figure out how to deep fry the table gusts (representing the base) and set them up on the table as side dishes!

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

Yes but you're not alone Ace

Scope (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 4:29PM EST (link)

Wasn’t there a recent poll that the Tea Party people polled higher than the Republicans and Dems. The Independents are leaving the Dems in droves, and, from what I read, not running to the Republicans. You are absolutely correct that they have the golden goose at their feet right now. The problem is that the less and less they “fight”, the less and less likely the R’s are to gain the number of seats they can, if they had the will and want. Let’s hope that Erick, and all of us, can light a fire under their butts, if there butts aren’t too numb from sitting on them.

 
 
 
 

Lack of outrage...

writeblock Saturday, December 12th at 8:54PM EST (link)

Washinton D.C. pols have become so accustomed to the pervasive dishonesty and corruption that nothing seems to get a rise from them anymore–no matter which side of the aisle we’re talking about. It’s all too damned removed from ordinary plebian existence. There’s no sense of urgency or anger–another reason I prefer outsiders like Rudy or Sarah as politicians–they’ve remained close to the people. Rudy in particular still shows anger and fights mean when necessary. The polite, gentlemanly approach is self-defeating. We’re in a cold civil war here and it’s time the GOP realized this–beginning with Steele. His demeanor is disgustingly cheerful lately, out of all keeping with what’s happening in Washington. There’s too damn much gleeful anticipation of vote-getting down the road due to public anger–and not enough appreciation for the cause of the anger. Maybe it’s time for a real shake-up.

Therein lies another problem I see...because yeah there is momentum building against the Dems in spit of not because of anything Republicans in leadership are doing...

AceInTX (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 10:07AM EST (link)

and they are just sitting back waiting for all the benefits to accrue to them while acting like they don’t have to do anything to earn the gift they’ve been given.

Will we make gains in the House and Senator this year if they just set back and do nothing?

Undoubtedly…but that shouldn’t be the question…the question is….how much more would we gain in the House and Senate if these ass clowns would channel the energy that is building…give it a voice…and give it an outlet…

These guys could be out there anticipating a victory they haven’t won and doing nothing to capitalize on the outrage that is building to collasal levels in the electorate…how stupid id that?

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 
 
 

Erick, did you send this to all the

RJD (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 12:48PM EST (link)

GOP’s Senators? Everything that can be sent to those elected officials to inform them of the situation – and their situation – is vital.
This should be a call to action.

Yes I did.

Erick Erickson (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 1:08PM EST (link)

n/t

Who will stand on either hand and keep this bridge with me?

Did you hear from any Senator?

honorable (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 2:05PM EST (link)

By now I am sure they would read an email from you. Did anyone respond to your email and some of the parliamentary tactics you mentioned?

I'd be very interested in seeing you post all their replies.

smagar (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 6:50PM EST (link)

That way, as you get more and more replies—as you should—it will become obvious who hasn’t replied.

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

 
 
 
 

Maybe it's time these Senators learn how primaries work...

AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 12:50PM EST (link)

I often hear that Senators express frustration when we dare to tell them how to fight, and that their frequent refrain is “we just don’t understand how the Senate works.”

sad thing is…McCain Fiengold has insulated them from any real challenges because we can’t band our funds together and challenge them…but we have to do something…and soon!

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 

Pass the Ammunition

Brent Teichman (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 12:58PM EST (link)

Praise the Lord! (And pass the ammunition). We’re gonna need it if this thing passes. Fight, dammit…FIGHT!

“It does not take a majority to prevail… but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” –Sam Adams

 

Erick, what prevents Jim DeMint or any of the other

ColdWarrior (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 1:05PM EST (link)

so-called “conservative” Senators from employing the parliamentary tactics you outlined?

Each Senator has the right to invoke these rules (for example, the call for a quorum) on their own, no? Seriously, what “power” do the likes of McConnell and Kyl have over ANY single senator with a backbone?

I believe ALL of them have proven themselves to be cowards. Not one of them has eloquently explained to the American people that the Debtocrats are purposely destroying the economy and infringing on the individual rights of the people. Any one of them could do so on the floor of either chamber. The closest any of the Republicans have come to eloquence and truth-telling has been Joe Wilson: “You Lie!”

And then they all fell all over themselves apologizing.

Pathetic.

Thank you.
ColdWarrior

In 2012, will YOU become a “voting member” of the Republican Party in your precinct?

Where it all started. Twitter @kaltkrieger
Learn how to GOTV at The Concord Project and at Procinct and Unified Patriots.

One Senator

Mayhem (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 1:12PM EST (link)

One Senator objecting to these UC requests is a great strategy from the leadership standpoint. If McConnell is worried about “image” and “obstructionism,” then he should approach one good Senator and ask him to take the floor and lead the charge of objections. If McConnell is doing it, it might look like it is a concerted GOP effort, but if one GOP does it, he can have his hands “clean” of it while allowing the bill to stall.

James Madison, Jim DeMint, Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan… You get the picture.

Mayhem- That's the reason we are in a pickle

Scope (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 2:12PM EST (link)

because the entire GOP HAS NOT banded together and started shouting, and using their collective efforts to bury this dam@ bill. For McConnell to fear looking like an obstructionist is laughable, as whether he is or is not, according the MSMers he is still painted that way. He needs to earn the title.

Im not advocating this

Mayhem (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 2:19PM EST (link)

I’m just saying form McConnell’s standpoint, it would allow him to still appear “colloquial” (since that seems to be so important to him) and still appease the base.

James Madison, Jim DeMint, Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan… You get the picture.

 
 

Mayhem- That's the reason we are in a pickle

Scope (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 2:12PM EST (link)

because the entire GOP HAS NOT banded together and started shouting, and using their collective efforts to bury this dam@ bill. For McConnell to fear looking like an obstructionist is laughable, as whether he is or is not, according the MSMers he is still painted that way. He needs to earn the title.

 

Agree that might be a good idea

countessolenska Saturday, December 12th at 3:07PM EST (link)

…for McConnell to have one or more than one Republican senator do what’s necessary. Picking McCain as their attack dog doesn’t get it. What are they thinking? I don’t think McCain is that likable anymore.

 

As a fallback, maybe.

Loren Heal (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 3:49PM EST (link)

He should be out in front calling for the label as the one obstructing it. That way the whole party gets credit for beating back the Marxists. But it it’s just Jim DeMint, that’s OK too, because we can still take credit for it, but we must have done the work


Join the Concord Project, and follow @lheal, if you dare.

 

Good point---and we know just the man: Tom Coburn. nt

smagar (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 6:52PM EST (link)

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

 
 

We all need to call Coburn and DeMint

Tony82 (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 1:41PM EST (link)

… They are, after all, the Senate’s “bomb throwers”.

Coburn’s office told me earlier this week that he still plans to have the bill read… obviously hasn’t happened yet.

If we all put concerted pressure on our two stalwarts, surely at least one will come through…

Contact info...

Tony82 (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 1:50PM EST (link)

DeMint: 202-224-6121
Coburn: 202-224-5754

 
 
 

Fired up! Ready to go!

Mayhem (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 1:08PM EST (link)

Erick, you’ve got me fired up and ready to go. I am disgusted with the Senate GOP. I went into this process convinced that this bill would be delayed to death, because that is what the Senate GOP told us would happen after the House passed the bill. I’m not sure if this is how they interperet “delay” or if they were just lying to us, but either way I am pissed.

I am most upset with Tom Coburn and Jim DeMint. These are our front line warriors and I have heard nothing from them on the procedure side of this. Where are they? Unanimous consent implies all 100 Senators agree. Well, Coburn and DeMint cold easily make it only 98 or 99, thereby triggering all the procedures listed in this post. Coburn said he was going to have the bill read on the floor. Gregg issued a “battle plan” of Senate procedures to give us weapons to fight this. DeMint said this would be Obama’s “Waterloo.” Where the heck are they?

No doubt the leadership has shut them up. But these are unanimous consent requests. They don’t need the leadership’s permission to object. That is a right that they can invoke personally. If this is the fight to save our Republic, then why the heck aren’t our guys chucking grenades into the enemy trenches!

Coburn and DeMint, where are you??

James Madison, Jim DeMint, Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan… You get the picture.

 

From Truman's desegregation order in '48 until July '64

Achance (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 1:25PM EST (link)

Southern Democrat senators forstalled every attempt to pass effective civil rights legislation defying their Party, two of their Presidents, and the popular will outside their states. They used the filibuster, the real stand up and speak filibuster endless to either thwart legislation altogether or to render it merely symbolic as was the case with the ’57 and ’60 legislation.

Any of the Republican senators could endlessly frustrate the majority and prevent passage of CommieCare. It is evident that they care more for their standing in the DC cocktail circuit than for their states and their Country.

In Vino Veritas

It is evident that they care more for their standing in the DC cocktail circuit than for their states and their Country.

izoneguy (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 1:33PM EST (link)

What these wankers don’t get is that – unless they fight now then they will be gone and they won’t get to go to anymore DC cocktail parties.

The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.

If they get beat, they just become consultants or lobbyists,

Achance (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 1:35PM EST (link)

making even more money in the process. Once you send them to DC, they never come back to the district or state.

In Vino Veritas

That is one of the reasons Obama got elected

izoneguy (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 1:40PM EST (link)

Remember, how he was going to take down the status quo of “business as usual”? How he was going to restrict lobbying?
It is even worse now. Federal employees are gulping down the gravy as fast as it is put in front of them.

And good old fashioned civil war is coming and they don’t even know it.

The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.

You know, I know it, others know it

nolan Sunday, December 13th at 3:00PM EST (link)

izone. Maybe next fall, probably the following spring. Spring is campaigning weather, after all.
Stay tuned…
out

“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.” -Auric Goldfinger
Nothing is ever done in this world until men are prepared to kill one another if it is not done. — George Bernard Shaw
“No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong.” – Winston Churchill
Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
- Winston Churchill

 
 
 

They won't be gone.

mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 1:40PM EST (link)

The very vast majority of US Senators are unbeatable. Plus, in two or four years this vote will be long forgotten by “most” people.

Two weeks is more like it. nt

Achance (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 1:43PM EST (link)

In Vino Veritas

 
 
 
 

Grassroots Patriots

tonywarren Saturday, December 12th at 1:57PM EST (link)

This is the perfect example of why the Grassroots Patriots, aka Tea Party people, Must come together and take over the GOP. We know how to FIGHT SOCIALISM! You don’t do it by compromising with them, you get in their face and SCREAM at them!

If the GOP doesn’t grow a set, they will be left on the trash heap of history where they belong. RINOs are going extinct.

 

I am so mad I could chew nails!

Jesse V Saturday, December 12th at 2:05PM EST (link)

Where is the Republican leadership in this fight? These wussies are driving me crazy. Their lack of grit and soine is what got them in trouble with the American people last time and they are just repeating the same mistakes.

Dang it – If the TEA Party movement candidate wouldn’t allow the libtards to keep control of congress I would just vote against every Republican I could. What a bunch of cowardly losers the Republicans are!

Hear me you Republican COWARDS in the Seante! You are as bad as the libtards in selling us out and destroying this country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your Outrage Is Shared: Remember All Those "D.O.A." Predictions?

Ausonius (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 2:20PM EST (link)

When the “leader” of the Republican Senators says he wants to “slow things down,” he is saying that the bill will pass, and they will not bother with any Alamo-defense of what is left of the American Republic.

America: whither goest thou?

Ausonius: 310-395 A.D. Teacher, Poet, Consul, General, Farmer.

Personal Tutor to the future St. Paulinus of Nola and to young Gratian, heir to the throne during the turbulent final years of the Western Roman Empire. When his former student Gratian was assassinated, Ausonius threw up his hands and retired to his farm in Gaul. Rome was captured by barbarians 14 years after his death.

Cato@rock.com

 
 

Welcome to the USSA

Jesse V Saturday, December 12th at 2:17PM EST (link)

This is no longer America!

People we have been sold out. The looters in Washington care only about keeping their power and enslaving us so they can steal our homes, our bank accounts and our lives.

Its time to start talking about secession. We have no representaion in Washington. They’re not listening to us! They don’t care what we want, only how they can line their pockets and fill their coffers from our blood, sweat and tears.

If secession is not an option then its time for a real revolution to re-found OUR Country!

Its time to find a region of this country, move there, take it over, vote in conservatives and then secede from the USSA.

 

All these Senators have Facebook pages...

MacAoidh (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 2:31PM EST (link)

…so go on their Facebook pages and write on their walls with this link and a demand that they not just vote against the bill but ACT TO KILL IT.

I just wrote on David Vitter’s wall. The link is here, if you can see it: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Senator-David-Vitter/53906687963?ref=nf



Check out MacAoidh’s commentary on Louisiana and national politics at TheHayride.com

 

Thank You Erick!

Dan Perrin (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 2:53PM EST (link)

Well said!

Your prescription is exactly what needs to happen!

EXACTLY!

Who has the courage to stand and OBJECT?

WHO WANTS TO BE A HERO?

WHO?

 

What a powerful piece.

viperowens Saturday, December 12th at 3:02PM EST (link)

Eric I agree with everything you have stated in this Blog. I am going to forward this to my congressman here in California, Buck McKeon and maybe he can get it to a conservative senator that can help and see that these actions are pursued. Wish we had Senators in this state that we could rely on, but unfortunately that is not the case. Both are Democrats, liberal ones at that…..and both just totally worthless. No redeeming qualities what-so-ever.
Anyway…be well in all that you do.

 

The good general moves his line by any means

redneck_hippie (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 3:19PM EST (link)

at his disposal. If you are a general, I think I just saw you slap and punch a few men who were facing the wrong way.

My prayer is that McConnell really was running reconnaissance like he told Rush a couple of days ago. He said the messaging amendments were in order to figure out who they could work on.

In any case, thank you so much for all you do.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 

We can't defeat hard core Leftists with jelly fish moderates

NickDeringer (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 3:19PM EST (link)

It’s time to take the gloves off and call the Dems what they are: Political gangsters who don’t give a rip about the Constitution.

 

Eric, this needs to be hand delivered

jacquesUSA (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 4:10PM EST (link)

Eric,

You encapsulated our dilemma an provide an excellent blueprint for fighting back!

YOUR LETTER NEEDS TO BE HAND DELIVERED TO EVERY REPUBLICAN SENATOR!

What part of the gravity of the situation do the Republicans not get?

A number of RINOs need leave in 2010, but for now we can not sit idly by while week kneed Republicans don’t even try to fight with EVERY tool and EVERY last breat they have.

Semper Fidelis,
Semper Vigilante,

Jacques Ditte

“A Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever.”
–John Adams in a Letter to Abigail Adams (July 7, 1775)

“It does not take a majority to prevail… but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom, in the minds of men.” — Samuel Adams

 

Thanks, Erick

snopercod Saturday, December 12th at 4:23PM EST (link)

You wrote a brilliant and much-needed summary of where we are headed and what needs to be done to stop it.

I immediately faxed it to McConnell’s office (he probably has about a thousand copies by now).

I also posted a snippet on the Asheville Tea Party blog. I hope that’s OK.

 

Issue a Warrant for Aiding and Abetting

strikeeagle (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 4:43PM EST (link)

Just what do the Republicans see as the down-side of fighting this?

- They’d be with the Majority of the American People– that’s not “obstructionist” and the polls show the people are ignoring the MSM on this issue

- They’d show everyone they are “re-branded” and not the party of ‘04-’06 aka “Democrat-lite”

- They’d be killing a horrible, monstrosity piece of legislation – Senators should do that regardless

- They’d keep their base fired for the next election up rather than pissing it off

IF NOT THIS BILL – WHAT ISSUE WOULD THEY “GO TO THE MATS” FOR?

The immediate threat is 60 for Cloture, 50+Biden to pass (10 Dems get cover), over to Pelosi and her “bunch of miss nancies” (ref UrbanDictionary), no conference, 218 there, and onto Obama for signature by Christmas

PS – Is McConnell so naive to believe the Dems will be this “gentlemenly”, if happens to become the next Majority Leader?!

‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ — Edmund Burke

 

THE MARK OF CAIN (OR SKUNK EYE)

Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 4:57PM EST (link)

For some time now my little group has been suggesting that the GOP put the mark of anathema, what Moses Sands called the “skunk eye” on any GOP member who voted with the majority, with Snowe and Collins in mind. Cut them off, bar them from meetings, refuse to speak to them. Let them keep their own council. No Christmas cards.

Maybe we had it backwards. Maybe, as Mr Erickson suggests, that an act of high drama needs to executed in order to draw attention not just to the capriciousness of the majority, but the timidity of the minority.

You bet. Who can forget Mr Smith Goes to Washington? Is Jim DeMint the man?

But it does seems one man, ONE MAN, staking out a spot, under a banner we already know over 50% of the American people follow…on high ground…and announcing to the world he is cutting off all cordiality, collegiality and social intercourse with his own party…etc…Wow!

Imagine, with flashbulbs going off, DeMint telling McConnell and the whole rest of the pack…If you want to let Olympia Snowe and Susie Collins hang out with you…from where the sun now stands, I won’t hang out with you…forever.

Now that’s drama. That’s also what I would do, knowing the stakes. I suspect Mr Erickson would to. Who would want to share the comfort of the Senate Clubhouse with those who are unwilling to shed their blood with me? (Henry V, sort of.)

Is there even one in the United States Senate, Jim DeMint included, however vile, would want to have his condition truly made gentle…for all history, to the ending of the world?

Yes, that’s the ticket.

Thanks, Mr Erickson.
VB

 

Get Out of Our House

izoneguy (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 6:37PM EST (link)

http://goooh.com/home.aspx

The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.

 

We've always gotten the Government

anotherindyfilmguy (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 6:41PM EST (link)

we deserve, so to speak… now perhaps comes the time when the government starts coming to get us?

(posted by random thought criminal #19538302 and in no way affiliated with anotherindyfilmguy last time I checked…)

Santorum? Well, at least he’s not Romney…
http://www.zazzle.com/enemy_of_the_statist_tshirt-235977043035297478

 

Let's talk about the Data shall we?

Highmaintfmale (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 6:45PM EST (link)

According to a recent Rasmussen poll November 30, 2009, only 33% of all Americans feel their congressional representatives deserve to be re-elected, translation : 67% of us are awake and ready to hand out some pink slips of our own in 2010, even more in 2012.

Does this headline news honestly come as a big surprise to anyone?

On several occasions in just the past 90 days our “elected officials” you know, those whom we’ve sent to Washington D.C. to represent us, aka “we the people” have voted in direct contrast to what “we the people” want.

They can’t use the excuses that seem quite popular and ‘en vogue these days especially when it comes to “The One” in the Oval Office, “I misspoke” he was “misunderstood, miss-informed” he “miss-calculated” “that’s not the Reverend Wright I knew,” “That’s not the Bill Ayers I knew” or my personal favorite, “the police acted stupidly.”

With such a stellar example of what our “elected officials” in many cases have become, is it any wonder why the American people see many of their current congressional and senatorial representatives as pathetic examples of “We the people’s” representatives?

This isn’t exactly rocket science, in just Wisconsin alone over 8,500 people gathered on the front lawn of the capital building in Madison on April 15, 2009, followed through the summer by countless other gatherings, 3,000 in Greenville, 1,500 in Fond Du Lac, more than 4,000 in Sheboygan, and 15,000 people in Milwaukee stopped what they were doing, took the time to attend a T.E.A. Party(s) trying to send their message and “Make a Roar They Can’t Ignore”.

Similarly, on 9/12/09, 2 million traveled to Washington D.C. and then 60,000 gathered there again a few short weeks later, for the same reason adding to millions of others in every state across the country, I’d say the writing is for the most part not just on the wall, but indeed all over the wall!

Yet still, despite millions chanting their opposition all over the country, and EVERY poll that comes out indicating the same sentiments, somehow, some way, in a land far far away from Sheboygan, WI. called Washington D.C. our congressional and senatorial leaders just can’t, or won’t hear us, and neither apparently will our president.

Senators have now changed the rules of who can enter the Senate Building in order to keep constituents at bay; they take their phones off the hook to ignore our calls; refuse to accept faxes and emails; refuse repeated requests to meet with constituents, and on the rare occasions they do respond, they send form letters thanking us for supporting them.

Senators call American citizens “evil-mongers,” “terrorists” and “radicals.”
This Senatorial disdain for the majority of American citizens is an outrage, they believe they, as one individual, are far more informed, knowledgeable, and enlightened than those they represent, and as a result, they continue to cast their votes against the wishes of the people insisting (among other things) that we “just don’t understand” or that they are “doing it for the good of the people”.

STOP THE MADNESS! Get off the couch, Turn off the T.V., Put away the video games, gather your friends and loved ones, and get moving.

WAKE UP!!! at this very moment, Your COUNTRY, your RIGHTS, and your FREEDOM are in very serious JEOPARDY.

Do you REALLY want the government, any government, let alone this one, deciding your fate or that of Your children and grandchildren?

Do you REALLY believe the government will do what is best for you or your loved ones when you or that loved one are seriously ill and in need of extensive medical care? Or, will they do what is least expensive, or most “cost effective,” all the while spending lavishly on European Vacations, Hawaiian luaus at the White House, and New York Dates?

Do you REALLY believe, based upon all the broken promises in the past 10 months, that much of anything this administration says is truthful, or in this county’s best interest, not to mention yours, your children’s or grandchildren’s?

If you do, I’ve got some swampland in the Arizona Desert to sell you, that is, if you can get a loan, or hold on to your job long enough to make the payments on it… but hey, the good news is, you might qualify for a nice big Tax credit courtesy of… yup you guessed it, “The Government” and “The ONE”.

If you’re one of the REALLY lucky ones, you can drive to your new Arizona swampland in your new vehicle bought at a steal of a deal when…Gasp, yup you guessed it AGAIN, your Government and “The ONE” gave you that “Cash for Clunkers” program incentive / deal!

Come on people… what are you waiting for?

Do you honestly think a handful of people, your loved ones, friends and neighbors, can win this battle alone while you sit back and do nothing except “talk” about what “a sad state of affairs things are right now”, and how “someone, should really do SOMETHING” but, you? Well your too busy watching American Idol, or playing “Fantasy Football.”

Do you think all there is to it, is attending a tea party, and once you’ve done that you have done your part?

ARE YOU GOING TO STAND AND FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS AND FREEDOM?

Or will you sit quietly in front of your T.V. watching eating and drinking only what they still allow you to, when they allow you to, (which will be of course) always done in the “best interest of the health and welfare of all Americans.” That has already begun, i.e. transfats? Banned. Sugar? Taxed. Caffeine? Limited,..etc. (that is, for as long as they allow you to get it at all) before they march you out to the street for, oh say… Mandatory Volunteer Government Service? foxnews.com/…/house-readies-passage-volunteerism-critics-pricey-forced-service/

If you think I am joking think AGAIN, I’m not.

Your children can no longer get a student loan anywhere except through the government, the Government now controls who gets an education and who doesn’t, did you know this? www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/17/politics/main5317823.shtml

Rasmussen Reports 53-56% of Americans oppose any health care legislation at all, 60% of Americans say it will increase the deficit, and 71% of Americans are angry at the Federal Government. Yet the US Senate is determined to vote this bill into law anyway. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

WAKE UP! WAKE UP! WAKE UP! YOUR ALREADY LATE, SOON YOU WILL BE TOO LATE .

I’d rather be RIGHT then Liberal
Make a ROAR they CAN’T ignore

Highmaintfmale, what do you suggest we DO?

ColdWarrior (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 7:25PM EST (link)

Is it anything like actually becoming involved in grass roots politics as a Republican Party precinct committeeman to fill up the fifty per cent of the PC slots nationwide in the Republican Party?

You can read about that strategy, and how to implement it, here:

www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com

Thank you,
ColdWarrior

In 2012, will YOU become a “voting member” of the Republican Party in your precinct?

Where it all started. Twitter @kaltkrieger
Learn how to GOTV at The Concord Project and at Procinct and Unified Patriots.

Right on! This is what I'm talking about!

Highmaintfmale (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 8:34PM EST (link)

Cold, Thank You! This is exactly the sort of thing I was referring to.

In the course of the past 30 days, my husband and I have spent more than 150 hours working on “taking back” our local county party.

In the past six months, (and this is NOT an exaggeration) the number of hours we’ve put in totals over 1000. It can safely be said we have become two very sharp pointed thorns in the sides of those within our county party who were far too comfortable with the status quo, two thorns that simply WILL NOT give up, and DO NOT give in.

The information you’ve provided here is fantastic THANK YOU!

While most people can’t dedicate the amount of time we have to making the change happen, the fact is, most won’t have to,

You will have to devote some time, some effort, and some energy to it, and it will definately take more then authoring a blog post, or attending a TEA Party.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the TEA Parties, in fact in addition to the above mentioned hours spent within our local Republican Party, we’ve spent our “spare time” helping to organize, plan, advise and / or facilitate on a significant number of the TEA parties within our own state and others.

So when I say,

“Do you honestly think a handful of people, your loved ones, friends and neighbors, can win this battle alone while you sit back and do nothing except “talk” about what “a sad state of affairs things are right now”, and how “someone, should really do SOMETHING” but, you? Well your too busy watching American Idol, or playing “Fantasy Football.”

I say it not only as someone frustrated and angry about what is happening in our country, but also as someone who not only practices what they preach, we live, breathe, eat, drink, and sleep what we preach,

That having been said (and done) even we have so much more to learn, because honestly we were unaware of the information you posted in response to my post, we will absolutely act upon it without hesitation, and encourage others to do the same. Thank you!

We MUST all be the change we want to see because if WE aren’t, who will be?

Please let us know where we might be able to search for, and find more info about becoming precinct committeeman in our state.

I’d rather be RIGHT then Liberal
Make a ROAR they CAN’T ignore

Highmaintfmale, go to my little blog and look for your state

ColdWarrior (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 9:25PM EST (link)

I have compiled what I could find and so far I think I have information for 22 or 23 states. Look on the list of state info. Some are great “how to” guides, some are just links to by-laws.

Information on how to become a voting member of the Republican Party seems to the most closely guarded open secret of the GOP in some states, and certainly at the RNC. Trust me, the Establishment GOP and virtually all incumbents DO NOT want any of the unwashed masses of the Tea Party/912/town hall protester throngs coming into the Party and voting them and their friends out of both the Party leadership positions and out of their elected offices come the 2010 primary elections.

If you need any further help, please e-mail me at coldwarrior1978@gmail.com

Another effort is underway by some good folks:

www.nationalprecinctalliance.org

Other people have taken what I have compiled and put it on their blogs. The more the merrier!

Thank you for all you are doing. Some will just sit on the sidelines. That’s just the way it is. So, those of us who are willing to get into the real ball game of party politics are just going to have to do the heavy lifting, all the while trying to recruit more who think like us to follow.

Thank you.

ColdWarrior

In 2012, will YOU become a “voting member” of the Republican Party in your precinct?

Where it all started. Twitter @kaltkrieger
Learn how to GOTV at The Concord Project and at Procinct and Unified Patriots.

 
 
 
 

OHIO SENATORS STINK

pjpony (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 6:46PM EST (link)

Sherrod Brown bought by Soros, Voinovich sits and watches congress steal us blind and votes Present because he’s retiring. SO WHAT, you should still do your job while you’re there!! WE still have to pay your Present only a$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Can anyone here think of a RATIONAL reason why McConnell would want this bill to pass?

smagar (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 7:08PM EST (link)

I’m with Erick: the Senate GOP must stop this bill. Erick’s laid out all sorts of ways in which they can do it. It won’t be pretty, but I prefer that to losing quality healthcare.

I think Senator McConnell is a much better legislator than many on these boards give him credit for. Neverthless…the bottom line is that this bill not pass.

I can understand McConnell not blowing the bridges the minute this debate began. Maybe there were some opportunities to kill the bill through negotiation.

But, if the time comes that blowing the bridges is our only option, then light the fuse.

Now, if Senator McConnell and the GOP leadership have some bold plan, under which we’d all benefit if this bill WERE to pass…OK; let’s hear it. I can’t think of anything that would make me root for this bill’s passage, but I’ll listen. For a little while longer. But they’ll have to sell all of us on it—and I can’t imagine any case so compelling that it would convince us to go along with Obamacare.

Any sensible plan I can think of results in Obamacare being killed. Erick’s right; it’s so bad at its core that you can’t improve it enough to make it palatable.

Therefore, Senate GOP, be sure you kill this bill. Even if you have to blow the bridges.

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

What makes you think McConnell wants the bill to fail?

Tbone (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 8:28PM EST (link)

I think that many Republicans are just as convinced of their infallibility as to decide what is good for the rest of us as any Democrat.

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

Yes, and they don't think it will ever affect their lives

janis (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 8:50PM EST (link)

or the medical care of their families in any way whatsoever. I happened to read the front page of Firedoglake last night when RedState went down. The lefties there are no more fond of this bill than our side is. More than one of them said that the bill should be gutted and should be written again from scratch.

Of course they are not impressed with the bill because it doesn’t do what Obama promised during the campaign and they are livid that Reid moved to insert caps to limit spending, especially in the cases of those with very expensive treatment, as for cancers, AIDS, etc. and they are truly and hugely pissed over the PHARMA deals that would continue to ban cheaper imported drugs. However, in this case, the enemy of my enemy is truly my friend. I don’t care what it takes to defeat this monster. If they wish to hammer on their Senators as hard as we are hammering on ours, then more power to them. The elections next year may feature quite a few incumbents biting the dirt. Deservedly so.

 

I think he wants the bill to fail, because...

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:16AM EST (link)

…I’ve seen NO GOP leader—-with the exception of the Porkulus Sisters, perhaps—calling for a massive, radical restructuring of the nation’s health care system, plus the portion of our economy involved with heath chare. That’s what Obamacare is.

The GOP has proposed health care revisions, such as the ability to buy health care coverage across state lines. But nothing of this scope.

I get the sense that you see all Washington politicians as part of some “Borg” collective, all assimilated into one massive, malevolent force that wants to dominate us all. If that’s what you think, you’re watching too much television. Or listening too much to Ace and Jaded.

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

So the liberals on this site are now going to be....

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:23AM EST (link)

throwing my name and Ace’s into every diary to explain how you need to move left? If that is the game plan so be it. If my name and Ace’s comes up as HARD CORE Conservatives then I accept that HONOR and look forward to it.

BTW let me help you and when someone actually has REAL Conservative talking points in a diary you all could just reply Jaded & Ace…hell WE can get a button going so that those people will know RIGHT off the bat that they are part of the 40% of the electorate that is going to CHANGE the face of the Republican Party.

Let’s give Cold Warrior his button too because he is the face of the INTERNAL Conservative TAKEOVER! He is how you get things done when you are sick to death of LIBERALS who call themselves Republicans!

Ah, so you and Ace are "REAL" conservatives, eh?

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 2:30PM EST (link)

throwing my name and Ace’s into every diary to explain how you need to move left

“move left?” Umm…no. Actually, I plan to throw your names out anytime I need to talk about the whackos on this site. From my standpoint, you and Ace are the King (Queen) Kooks on Redstate.

Hey, if Buckley had to deal with the Birchers, I guess someone will have to deal with you.

If that is the game plan so be it.

In your mind, Jaded, I don’t doubt that you DO think it’s the game plan.

thwup thwup thwup

Those are the blades of my black helicopter, Jaded, coming for you…

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

smagar- What a disgusting post

Scope (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:33PM EST (link)

and you seem to be doing alot of that lately. I am truley shocked that you have not been at least warned. You pick 2 Redstate members, tell them that you will single them out because they are two “wackos” and you are not even warned. Amazing. I’m sure it’s an oversight by the moderators, but, I’m sure you will not be able to do your dirty work for long. I personally wouln’t miss anything you have to say. You are mean.

Scope, Jaded and Ace are more than capable of taking care of themselves. nt

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 11:30PM EST (link)

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

 
 
 
 
 
 

We were told it would never pass the house, oops, look where it is now.

nessa (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 8:57PM EST (link)

KILL IT NOW, every day it lingers is another day it might get passed. Whatever McConnell wants he apparently doesn’t want it very bad. He appears to be willing for either outcome. If he truly cared we wouldn’t be wondering if he cared, we would know by his actions.

“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Contributor to Unified Patriots

teh twitter

Absolutely, nessa. And his actions speak volumes.

janis (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 9:06PM EST (link)

“Lay low and hope that the outrage over this will give the Republicans nice election results next November.” Apparently he is not savvy to the notion that we are not playing the game as we have in the past. We won’t buckle under and just support the incumbents without a whimper or a protest. We WILL make sure that as many of those who betrayed us suffer the defeat they will so richly deserve.

And if they don’t come up until 2012 or 2014, they can comfort themselves that we will forget by then— they do not realize the rage that this has engendered in millions of us. And it’s not going away, no matter what the cynics think.

Who told you, nessa, that Obamacare would never pass? the House?

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:19AM EST (link)

IIRC, most anyone who understood the current state of Washington politics expected it to pass the House. Nancy Pelosi controls the process so fully there, it was hard to see the bill not passing out of the House.

In fact, I remember quite a few commentators remarking how much trouble Pelosi had getting the bill passed.

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

WE had diaires like these everyday leading up to the vote....

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:37AM EST (link)

It cannot pass, they don’t have the votes

BTW that is not to beat up on anyone it is strictly to answer your question. The last couple of weeks leading up to the vote the diaries were fast and furious as to how it COULD NEVER pass because the blue dogs were terrified etc.

It had US in knots leading up to the night of the vote thinking there was a slim chance that it could NEVER pass because those idiots in Redstates who ran on fiscal Conservatism would NEVER lose their seats over this travesty of a bill. It is why the majority of US believe it will pass the Senate no matter what Reid does to it!

Jaded, if this echo chamber told you it wouldn't pass...

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 2:34PM EST (link)

WE had diaries like these everyday leading up to the vote

…then maybe you should listen to more opinions than those of the commenters on these boards.

And, just maybe, you should think twice about putting much stock in the opinions of those diaries’writers again.

The folks I read (e.g., Ed Morrissey at Hot Air) weren’t surprised it passed the House at all.

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

With all due respect

Jack_Savage (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 2:45PM EST (link)

It didn’t pass by much. Hot Air may not have been surprised it passed, but I didn’t read where he predicted it.

What we have now are 100 different electoral micro-environments trying to come together on a bill. As we have seen before in the vote leading to the Iraq war, Senators have no problem voting for something, then running like hell if it gets a little unpopular. The problem here is that the health care rationing bill is unpopular prior to the vote, so Senators may not have a lot of room to run this time.

 

Seems like a general smack-down of Redstate diarists

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 2:54PM EST (link)

is a little over the top. Especially since the author of the diary listed is EE. Perhaps you’d feel more comfortable elsewhere.

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

No, I feel just fine here, Vegas_Rick---don't be so thin-skinned

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 7:48PM EST (link)

Seems like a general smack-down of Redstate diarists is a little over the top.

If you’ll read my reply to Jaded again, you’ll see I was referring to those diarists who (supposedly) claimed that Obamacare could never pass the House.

BTW, I’ve been here on Redstate twice as long as you.

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

smagar- Longeticity on Redstate doesn't give you an automatic pass

Scope (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:41PM EST (link)

I’ve seen others with longer Redstate histories warned. You need to stop being the Sunday Redstate loser of the day.

 

smagar- Longeticity on Redstate doesn't give you an automatic pass

Scope (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:41PM EST (link)

I’ve seen others with longer Redstate histories warned. You need to stop being the Sunday Redstate loser of the day.

 

Whatever, smagar. drive on! nt

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:50PM EST (link)

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

 
 
 

By the way, smagar, in response to your avoe

janis (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 3:03PM EST (link)

comment in which you said that you don’t think the R’s in the Senate want this bill to pass, you need to go talk to John Cornyn then. He has apparently been quoted as saying that it would be a good thing if it passed as it will help the votes in 2010.

Just another politician putting party power over the good of the country and the generations to come after. I’ll go find where I saw that and come back with the info. In the meantime, you are welcome to relocate elsewhere on the net if we are too provincial and ignorant for your tastes. You wouldn’t be missed by many as far as I can tell.

Here you go:

janis (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 3:23PM EST (link)

firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/12/11/2149827.aspx

And I freely admit that my tech skills are lacking. The address will take you to the article which also includes Cornyn’s letter to the rest of the Republicans. It’s quite cheery about the prospects for 2010, and he seems to completely neglect the fact that allowing this monster to pass in the Senate will be a complete disaster for all of us out here in flyover country whose lives it will affect and the generations to come as well. But, hey, as long as it will get him some votes next year, it’s all good.

Fixed for you janis.

TNJim (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 3:51PM EST (link)

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/12/11/2149827.aspx

If you had gotten the http:// in there the site would have made it clickable in your original post.

Activism: What to do after the TEA party rally. Unified Patriots

Thanks, TNJim! I'll remember that next timw.

janis (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 4:01PM EST (link)

And Merry Christmas to another Volunteer. :-)

 

You are a good man, TNJim!

penguin2 (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 4:11PM EST (link)

Now I learned something new too with this link stuff. And here I thought it is all magic tied up in my little mouse. Wait, it still is.

Merry Christmas to you too!

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills

Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List

Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 
 

Where is Sen Cornyn's smoking gun quote, janis?

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:11PM EST (link)

Here is the text of Sen Cornyn’s message, from “First Read.” I’ve bolded the “smoking gun.”

Jon Cornyn, chairman of the NRSC, says things are looking up for the GOP.

He has penned a memo to Republican senators and candidates, touting what he sees as an improved environment for Republican candidates in next year’s elections.

“As the calendar turns to 2010, we find ourselves running in a markedly improved political environment from the difficult 2006 and 2008 election cycles,” Cornyn writes in part in the memo being sent out today. “Americans are alarmed at the overreach of the Democrat-controlled government, and its massive price tag that has driven our national debt to an all-time high. While Senate Democrats push forward with their costly health care legislation, they are rapidly losing the support of the American public.

The Democrats’ massive health care bill, coupled with their support for out-of-control government spending, are quickly developing into potent political issues for us, and we will work tirelessly to ensure that voters are fully informed of their Democrat Senators’ and would-be Senators’ support of a critical issue opposed by the majority of their constituents.”

First off, how do you leap from what Sen Cornyn said, and discern that he actually wants the bill to pass? (I can’t wait to hear this.)

Secondly, you said above that the Senator “has apparently been quoted as saying that it would be a good thing if it passed as it will help the votes in 2010.”

Apparent how? Where? Where is this quote of which you speak?

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

Sorry, smagar, I put in the wrong link.

janis (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:33PM EST (link)

Here you go:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/12/12/senate-gop-leader-were-running-on-health-care-in-2010-.html

Keep reading on down to about the 3/4 mark and you’ll see where Cornyn’s attitude about the bill passing is much different than that of Michael Steele, who is portrayed as urging the GOP Senators to obstruct, delay and stop this bill from passing by any means necessary. Cornyn, on the other hand, views the passage of this bill as good for whipping up the votes for the GOP in 2010.

You good with that, are you? ( I can’t wait to hear this.)

I think you've made way too much of a logic leap here.

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 11:53PM EST (link)

I’ve read the Note, and its author says that Senator Cornyn feels that, if the bill passes, it will be politically bad for the Democrats.

Sen. Cornyn is now making clear that he believes the Democratic health care reform legislation, should it become law, will help his party make gains in the 2010 midterm elections.

I agree with him. I think that the voters will freak out in 2010 if that happens.

But that’s not proof that Cornyn WANTS the bill to pass.

Do you have any other evidence that Cornyn, or some other GOP leader, reportedly said they want the bill to pass, for whatever reason? Or, are you drawing that interpretation yourself?

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

 
 
 
 
 

Smagar, the House and the Senate are two very...

penguin2 (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 3:14PM EST (link)

different critters. And ultimately the final bill still has to be voted out of the Senate, reconciled with the House and then the House has to vote again. So, maybe in all of this certainly lies reasonable, intelligent arguments that the bill will still fail. Considering that none of us are prophets, here or elsewhere, the outcome can go our way. Now, EE and the FP folks and really everyone else who writes here, are quite smart, and if you don’t like their take on things, okay, but then why do you stay? You seem so annoyed with us, but we are not going to change.

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills

Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List

Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

The House and Senate are DIFFERENT?!! Hey...who knew?

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 7:55PM EST (link)

You seem so annoyed with us

If memory serves, Redstate is a place for Republicans and conservatives to come and debate. If memory also serves, we are a big tent party.

I also stay because I think Redstate can serve as a valuable mechanism for attracting new GOP voters in 2010.

Unfortunately, the tone I’ve seen from a bunch of the newer commenters (I.e., those who came here after the 2004 elections) sounds less like the Founding Fathers and more like Quantril’s Raiders.

That’s one of the big reasons I’m still here, and have no intention of leaving.

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

smagar, you need to quit with the derogatory references.

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:07PM EST (link)

The more you use terms like birchers, the more you come off as wanting to discontinue your membership here at RedState.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


Aaron, if people want to dish it out, they should be ready to take it. nt

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:16PM EST (link)

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

smagar, I followed the thread, I know who started calling names. Again, you need to quit calling people birchers. nt

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:19PM EST (link)

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


Wilco nt

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:23PM EST (link)

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

but, for the record, I didn't call anyone a Bircher

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:28PM EST (link)

I said that, just as Buckley fought the Birchers, I was ready to duke it out with folks that I saw as extremists. IMO the debate on this site has gotten extreme and undignified.

If anyone can show me someplace where I directly called someone a Bircher, please do so. However, people shouldn’t leap to conclusions they want to reach, unless the evidence (or the words people actually said) supports it.

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

smagar, let's not further insult the intelligence of the site with that mealymouthed crap, ok?

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:32PM EST (link)

You know what you did, you were asked to stop, you said you would. Now leave it at that.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


If you're speaking as a moderator, OK...

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:45PM EST (link)

although I think youre being unfair. To be sure, as a moderator—and God knows we need them in cyberspace—your word goes. This is your house, and you don’t have to be fair.

If folks want to dish it out on these boards, they should be able to take it.

I will follow your instructions…but do you want me to respond to the other folks who are chiming in?

Standing by…

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

I want you to quit using racially charged rhetoric to define those who disagree with you on the site. That shouldn't be hard for someone who is looking for nothing more than a debate of ideas on the merits. nt

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:48PM EST (link)

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


What is racially charged about Quantrill's Raiders?

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:56PM EST (link)

The citizens of Lawrence, Kansas were mostly white! Don’t you know your history?

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

Smagar, please don't get cute...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:05PM EST (link)

Referring to a conservative as some form of racist riding for the Confederacy is a common enough tactic that it does really matter that those whom the Quantril’s Raiders massacred were white. That in conjunction with the Bircher reference, who were tarred as racist for their lack of support for the Civil Rights bill, makes the connection obvious.

Don’t you know your history?

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


Aaron, I have no idea what you mean here

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:38PM EST (link)

Referring to a conservative as some form of racist riding for the Confederacy is a common enough tactic that it does really matter that those whom the Quantril’s Raiders massacred were white.

??????? Care to take another crack at that sentence?

The Birchers were racist? News to me. Even more reason for Buckley to oppose them. Even if they weren’t racist, they were wacky enough that it was good that WFB fought them.

I take it that you’re not a moderator, then? If you are, please say so. Otherwise, I’ll continue addressing you as I would any other commenter with whom I’m disagreeing.

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

doesn't instead of does. the rest should be obvious. nt

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:42PM EST (link)

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Smagar, you referenced me as a Quantrill Raider.

penguin2 (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:34PM EST (link)

I know who they were. It is obvious some analogy of them and the John Birch Society is being made.

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills

Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List

Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

Am I missing something here?

redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:54PM EST (link)

I could swear smagar was belittling jaded a little while ago for using an analogy. That’s making trouble for the sake of making trouble.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 
 
 
 
 

smagar, considering I don't call you names and comment strictly...

penguin2 (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:31PM EST (link)

in response to what you write. In this case, you appeared to question the expertise and knowledge of FP posters, as well Erick E, who wrote this post. I would quibble with you on the order of this site’s focus, it is conservative/Republican vs the other way around.

And you equating me with someone who would ambush, massacre and were considered lawless and evil, is ludicrous. I did not dish anything out to you, smagar, except reasoned thought and acknowledgment of your view, which is at odds with many here.

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills

Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List

Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

When did I specifically call you, pengun2, a Quantrill Raider?

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:46PM EST (link)

Link, please

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

In the interest of comity, I hereby retract "Quantrill's Raiders" nt

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:48PM EST (link)

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

 
 
 
 
 

So you equate your voice with that of the Founders?

janis (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:09PM EST (link)

My, no ego problems with you, are there. There are many here who may not have signed up for accounts until after 2004, but who have been reading here since RedState was founded.

Your seniority just means that you have been here a year or two longer, it doesn’t give you either intellectual or moral superiority. You are an unpleasant man who is convinced of his own infallibility.

No, janis, I was referring to the tone of debate and discussion that USED to happen on Redstate.

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:20PM EST (link)

You are an unpleasant man who is convinced of his own infallibility.

I’m “convinced of my own infallability?” Oh, so you can read minds? You can tell what people are thinking?

OK, janis…what am I thinking now?

Cowboy up, janis: polticis is the contact sport of the mind. It’s not for the thin-skinned.

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

smagar: That's not for you to say

Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:26PM EST (link)

This site is for activists. People who want to jab pointy sticks at each other can go to Usenet.

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

I'm not sure what you mean, Neil

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:30PM EST (link)

I don’t mind taking it—may I dish it out, too?

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

No, you may not dish it out

Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:37PM EST (link)

If someone expects you to take it, hit the contact page.

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

 

To elaborate

Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:38PM EST (link)

Vent your disrespect at the left-wing trolls, not our side.

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

So, self-appointed sharia courts are ok, so long as they're "real" conservatives

Achance (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:45PM EST (link)

like Jaded and Ace? I’m told elsewhere that everybody who doesn’t agree with Jaded is a liberal. Do you agree with that, Neil? I’d like to hear from anyone of this little cabal just what they’d like to do to actually defeat Democrats. All I hear from them is how much they want to defeat Republicans. Seems to me we’re kinda short of Republicans these days and don’t really have any to spare.

In Vino Veritas

Thanks, Achance nt

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:49PM EST (link)

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

 

Art, does calling other conservatives birchers and equating them to confederate bushwackers increase our ranks?

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:50PM EST (link)

Just wondering because that is what smagar was doing.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


No, Aaron, I am not. And, I've been called plenty on these boards recently.

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:53PM EST (link)

Please tell me what I can and can’t say the next time Jaded, Ace and their crew rise up.

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

I already did. Don't equate people to birchers and confederates...is that so hard?

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:56PM EST (link)

And I don’t care what you have been called as long as it didn’t contain racial implications as your comments did.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


Aaron, Quantrill attacked Lawrence because it was the base of Free Soil soldiers...

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:04PM EST (link)

who’d raided into Confederate territory.

The vast, vast majority of Quantrill’s victims in Lawrence were not African-American.

I ask this in all seriousness—are you a moderator? If so, I recognize your responsibility, and my responsibility in complying with your directives, even if I think they’re unfair. Moderators have a duty to keep the peace—I get that. But, if you’re a commenter like me, then I’m not going to take instructions from you.

I didn’t call anyone a Bircher or member of Quantrill’s Rangers—go back and read what I said.

I said that the tone I’m seeing from a troublingly large number of commenters recently reminds me of the tone I’d expect to hear from raiders like Quantrill’s—mean, almost vicious and itching for trouble. I stand by that.

I also referenced the Birchers in the context of Buckley fighting them, because he saw them as extremists who threatened the health of the GOP. Frankly, I see the tone and anger on this site as poisonous to Redstate.

That is…assuming I still understand what Redstate, in its current form, really is about nowadays…

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

Smagar, I am not a moderator, but that really shouldn't matter.

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:10PM EST (link)

If you were looking out for the health of the site you wouldn’t care whether I was a moderator or not, only whether what I was saying was good advice. Just to clue you in, it is. And it would behoove you to take it into consideration. I hope you do. If you choose not to, so be it, your choice and all.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


Kowolski: And no, I am not a commenter just like you.

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:15PM EST (link)

I have earned the trust of Erick and the Directors and they have promoted me to be a FP contributor. With that comes a responsibility to keep an eye on the site and try to squash trouble before it gets too far. I thought we had achieved that when you said “wilco”, but apparently you just couldn’t let it go.

If you really need to read what I have written to you under the comment of a moderator I am sure that can be arranged…is that what you would like?

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 
 
 
 
 

Aaron, have you noticed what the "real" conservatives routinely call people?

Achance (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:22PM EST (link)

Today Jaded concluded that anyone who doesn’t agree with her is a liberal and a pu$$y. I assure you that given the company I’ve kept for most of my working life, I ask no quarter from anyone in the insult department.

You have a little cabal of people who as far as I can tell have never run for or held an office, never been appointed to anything, and never done any campaign work above the stamp-licking lever who have appointed themselves the judge of everyone who holds office in the Country and the arbiters of opinion on this site.

Now, I’m more than happy to duke it out with them; I love gunfights where I’m the only one with a gun, but the site rules seem to disarm anyone who replies to some people – or so it seems.

In Vino Veritas

Animal Farm standard

SteveLA (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:31PM EST (link)

Art,

It’s the Animal Farm Standard. All Animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. Especially if you espouse the right “true” conservatism mantra in at least a little bit in your screeds.

______________________________________

Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests

 

Art, smagar invited them to the discussion when he attacked them in his second comment.

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:33PM EST (link)

I am not going to question what Jaded does, I know Jaded a bit outside of RedState and I think she is doing everything she can at the level she is to influence this Party and Nation for the better. Ace has listed his activities within the party enough times that I am not going to call him a liar. And penguin has been active here at RedState and locally in VA. I don’t know what all janis does, but I am sure it is whatever she can muster. I don’t think any of them deserve to be called Birchers or Confederate Bushwackers, especially from a guy who will be claiming Reagan’s 11th throughout the primary instead of mounting a logical fact driven defense of his ideas, not you, smagar.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


But, Aaron, the real issue is that they were never

Achance (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:37PM EST (link)

“called” those things. Comparisons of behaviour are not name calling. There are some here with which rational, fact based argument is simply not possible; you just get a tour of whatever is living in their heads.

In Vino Veritas

I agree Art, and smagar is turning into one.

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:42PM EST (link)

And it is unfortunate.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 

Hmmmm.....

Jack_Savage (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:51PM EST (link)

I seem to remember the term “whackos” being bandied about. Of course, I always thought it was “wackos”, but whatever….

 

Achance and SteveLA, if you're engaging on my behalf, please disengage.

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 10:01PM EST (link)

Neil’s given the cease-and-desist sign and I’m obeying.

Thanks for stepping in when I needed some backup; until next time…

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

 
 
 

5. You seem to be playing favorites, Aaron.

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:43PM EST (link)

the site rules seem to disarm anyone who replies to some people

I completely agree.

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

Not playing favorites smagar...

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:51PM EST (link)

I found what you said particularly offensive and uncalled for, especially the comment directed at penguin, who is a very mild mannered commenter. You are the one who decided it was more important to drag this out into a pissing match rather than a simple warning that things were getting too heated.

If you have so little respect for the site that you only care if it is a moderator correcting you, then that is a very said state for you to be in. You could just put all this behind you and quit using rhetoric which is clearly an attempt to increase the hostility in the debate rather than decrease it. But again, I am not a moderator so that would be your choice.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


 

Tough

Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:52PM EST (link)

If you don’t like it, you know where the door is.

Aaron isn’t a moderator but he’s an FP contributor and I have his back.

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

Wilco, Neil and Aaron---nt

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:56PM EST (link)

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

 
 
 

An analysis and a confession

Jack_Savage (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:45PM EST (link)

I think all roads lead back to Sarah Palin and John McCain.

I understand why you are a sworn enemy of Palin, but that is inside baseball to a point that few of us understand – at least in the political sense. That is your business, and I can completely understand holding a grudge to the death.

However, others who I would put in the social moderate camp also seem to have a big problem with Palin, and therein is the main problem. “Palin Bot”, “SWMNBN” (which equates people who support or admire Palin to Ron Paul supporters) and other slurs don’t do anyone any good. I still can’t believe that people who call themselves Republicans stand shoulder to shoulder with Keith Olbermann and other scum on the subject of Sarah Palin.

Of course, when I look in the mirror, I realize I was not very charitable to John McCain, who is also a Republican. I believe he has done much to earn my disdain, but I would also be willing to bet that the negative drumbeat regarding him pisses people off.

Bottom line is that is has all gotten very personal, and it begins and ends with the highly personal criticism of fellow Republicans – of which I have been a part. Like you, I have no problem carrying it on, but I will be the first to admit it has made me say things I wish I hadn’t, and gotten me on the sh*t list of more than a few people, and made it so I can barely have a conversation on this site with any of them.

Until that changes and some amends are made, nothing changes. Either way I am OK with it….just sayin’.

Well, Erick did ask us to "FIGHT"

6eorge Jetson (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 10:04PM EST (link)

but I don’t think this is what he had in mind ;)

 
 
 
 

Ciurious, after that statement,

gekster (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:56PM EST (link)

“Seems to me we’re kinda short of Republicans these days and don’t really have any to spare.”

why the jump on Palin all of the time?
not poking, just asking

They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.

We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway

Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved

She doesn't hold any office,

Achance (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:33PM EST (link)

and unless she shows me something I never saw here, I’d like it to stay that way.

In Vino Veritas

Fair enough

gekster (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:39PM EST (link)

They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.

We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway

Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved

 
 
 

"Sharia courts?"

Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:51PM EST (link)

Tell you what Art: When you can show me where Jaded and Ace are having people brutally murdered for disagreeing , then I will stop pointing and laughing at your ridiculous comment.

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

Tell ya' what, Neil; I don't need your defense, but

Achance (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 10:15PM EST (link)

when you call one of them out for the things they’ve said to and about those who oppose them, I might take your laughing and pointing a little better. The fact that you don’t really want to primary every Republican officeholder in America really shouldn’t make one a liberal or a pussy, dontcha think?

The general run of comment from this lot has been somthing along the lines of “let’s get them all.” I have yet to hear one idea of policy or program from any of these sel=annointed ideological purists. Hell, I might agree with them if I actually had any idea of what they stood for other than defeating every Republican officeholder in the Country.

In Vino Veritas

I don't read every diary

Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 10:30PM EST (link)

I call out Ace all the time.

Jaded I’ll try to reel back.

Ditto Becker.

Ditto you.

I don’t play favorites among the regulars. I’m genuinely happy when you guys just get along. I don’t want to have to go Rodney King on anyone.

You have my email address. Please, Please give me the opportunity to give them similar guff when they get carried away against you.

I’d rather everyone get along, but I’ll settle for everyone united in hating me for being a jerky moderator.

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

 
 
 
 

And, when "our side" lashes out? nt

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:51PM EST (link)

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

Contact form (nt)

Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 10:39PM EST (link)

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

Wilco, and thanks. nt

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 11:59PM EST (link)

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

 
 
 

Moderator---whatever my feelings are, I promise I will comply with your directives.

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:08PM EST (link)

If you want me to talk about football, I will:

One of these days, Army WILL beat Navy again!!!

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Thanks for jumping in with that Jaded.

nessa (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:35PM EST (link)

I didn’t mean to start a dust-up and then disappear. But y’all did pick it up quite nicely.

“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Contributor to Unified Patriots

teh twitter

 
 

smagar- Now you diparage and demean front pagers

Scope (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:37PM EST (link)

Is no one minding the shop? The cash registers are openguys.

 
 
 

Exactly Nessa "We were told it would never pass the House"...

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:26AM EST (link)

I was down in DC that day protesting and I heard those idiots on the floor of the House passing their GARBAGE and I came home with a defeatist attitude and then I gathered myself to together and got to work on the Senate. I believe it will pass because there is a NEED for the Democrats to pass it for the Idiot in Chief to have his talking points in January.

I don’t believe for one minute this monstrosity will not pass but I do believe it will be the battering RAM that WE will use in 2010 to end this reign of TERROR that WE have been under since January of 2009.

"reign of TERROR"? Jeez...nt

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 2:35PM EST (link)

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

Those of us with children and grandchildren

redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 2:51PM EST (link)

that we are scared to death for, know exactly what Jaded is talking about. Sheesh!


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 

She meant what she said, smagar.

TNJim (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 4:04PM EST (link)

Jeez, indeed. You don’t see the dire consequences all this will bring us, and as Rednck hippie said our children and grandchildren? All this debt this Congress and President has already authorized is going to keep us in the hole for years to come. HCR, plus this 1.1trillion dollar spending bill just passed will make a huge hole in our fiscal stability even larger.

I may not have used “reign of terror” but when you get down to the long term economic damage this debt is doing to our country and what it’s going to give them license to do, in their way of thinking, that’s exactly what it is, all political correctness aside.

Activism: What to do after the TEA party rally. Unified Patriots

Our national security is at stake,

redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 5:56PM EST (link)

as is our sovereignty as a nation. Those are just 2 outcomes of turning us into a banana republic fiscally. We are already having to increase the rates on our long-term bonds because of this overreach. Best be preparing yourself for some rather nasty surprises if you expect things to improve any time soon.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

Meant to reply to smagar, above. nt

redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 5:57PM EST (link)

Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

redneck, there is a difference between hyperinflation and a Mongol attack.

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:01PM EST (link)

The second one is a “reign of TERROR,’ the first one isn’t.

You do see the difference, right? I’m not sure Jaded does.

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

 
 
 

My quibble (this time) was with Jaded's choice of words

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 7:59PM EST (link)

When I think “Reign of Terror”…excuse me, “Reign of TERROR,” I think of pogroms and Mongol raids. Not out-of-control government spending.

Can either you, or Redneck Hippie, point to anything I’ve said that makes me sound indifferent to the impact of out-of-control government spending? Let me remind you, I’m the one telling Sen McConnell to blow the bridges if he has to.

Do you see a difference, TNJim, between inflation and a Mongol attack?

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

Just to inform, from Wikipedia, so take with a grain of salt:

gekster (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:44PM EST (link)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

“Terror’ may refer to:
Fear, an emotional response to threats and danger

Horror and terror, standard literary and psychological concepts, especially as applied to Gothic literature

Terrorism, a policy or act intended to intimidate or cause terror, usually for the furtherance of ideological goals

State-sponsored terrorism, terrorism sponsored by nation-states

State terrorism, acts of terrorism conducted by governments

Political repression, persecution of individuals or groups for political reasons, often a policy of some states towards their own citizens

It seems to me to be a right chioce of the word.
The lastne fits.

They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.

We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway

Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved

 

I see the degree of inflation we'll get under this bil

TNJim (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:48PM EST (link)

as a Mongol attack, yes, considering the pillaging and power grabbing that will be going on in it’s name. You look at what this bill will do to our economy and personal freedom and tell me it isn’t a “reign of TERROR” to quote Jaded. Only this time it’s the US government instead of Mongols and the weapons aren’t spears and battle axes but 2000 page bills and a complicite media that tries to say “It’s all good”. Like Redneck Hippie I’m also looking at the possibility of nasty surprises.

Reigns of terror come in many forms, smagar, not just pogroms and Mongol attacks.

Activism: What to do after the TEA party rally. Unified Patriots

Also, smagar, see gekster's definition #6 just above. nt

TNJim (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 8:51PM EST (link)

Activism: What to do after the TEA party rally. Unified Patriots

Guys, thanks for doing justice,

redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:28PM EST (link)

I would just add that hyperinflation is not the end of the story. What happens when there is hyperinflation to the point where a nation can no longer afford to defend itself. Where is the superpower who will be the arsenal of democracy then? Sorry I missed the discussion.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 
 

TNJim, we will respectfully have to disagree. nt

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:06PM EST (link)

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

So Importtant to get these idiots to listen to us

Jay (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 7:09PM EST (link)

Erick –

Such an extremely important post. So much so that I reposted on my site (hope that’s ok) and I emailed our safe Georgia senators to reiterate that we expect them to take advantage of the relative safety of their seats to be leaders and to prevent this crap with every ounce of their being.

We shall see. Keep up the fight. Nice to see you on TV these days taking the fight to the enemy.

The Liberal’s definition of torture: Anything that provides useful information from the enemy
Sleepy Eyed Whiners of the Deep

 

It won't be that the Democrats destroyed the Country,

Tbone (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 8:23PM EST (link)

it will be that the Republicans let them.

Who should I despise more?

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

Well said, Tbone. And my answer is

janis (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 8:39PM EST (link)

“The Republicans who stood there with their thumbs in their butts and did nothing.” They knew that they were the only thing between us and ruin and they have done nothing to stop it.

They are worthy only of our contempt if they continue to behave as they have so far.

 
 

Erick, as outstanding as anything you've ever written

peg_c (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 8:29PM EST (link)

Sharing with all my FB peeps. I am working hard to make as many people as possible understand that America is in a fight to the death for our freedom and liberty. The fight is here with Congress over this abomination of a bill.

If Republican senators allow this disaster to pass, we need to ensure every one of them gets targeted for removal at the earliest opportunity besides all the Dems we have to remove. What worries me is there is NOTHING they care about; not even their careers. Certainly not their country.

What on earth kind of awful people have we elected to office?????

Government cannot be the solution when government is the problem.

 

You cannot count on Republicans

saterp Saturday, December 12th at 9:35PM EST (link)

If you think that Senate Republicans are friends of conservatism, then I think that you think wrongly.

 

Fight, Stand, and Pray

Mary_Contrary (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 9:54PM EST (link)

Time to pray.

 

Hard and fast rule

1stRichard (Diary) Saturday, December 12th at 9:57PM EST (link)

I am conservative, I am Inalienable Individual Liberty, I am Natural Law and Common Sense, and I am Individualism and Exceptionalism. When I hear a politician say we have equal rights governed by the government, especially healthcare, I know it is wrong and the majority knows it is wrong as well. Adolf Hitler and Anton Drexler were equal rights and we know how that turned out. Distracters of this fact only cite the results as politically incorrect whereas the conservative knows the Common Sense that stepping on to this path is wrong. We have Inalienable Individual Liberty and not rights given out in some socialist allotment. Natural Law is that we must have Suspicion of Power because we cannot foretell the future and Common Sense is that government is not always a benevolent provider. Therein so written in our Constitution, government must be limited and shall have enumerated power and the remainder shall be in the hands of the Individual States and mostly the Individual. Distracters call this blind adherence to the past and ridicule this as an obstruction of Progress forgoing the lessons history teaches. If our Elected few surrender the lessons history teaches they will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government. The Magnitude and Enormity thereof cannot be expressed in simple words, therein resulting in some Confrontation or Fight of equal proportion. The path these Elected few have stepped onto is extremely dangers and a threat to all. If not the Senate Republicans then who is going to fight? Will it be in the Senate with some resemblance of civility or without? At best, they have ended their career and at worst, it will be civil war if the Constitution is further perverted and subverted in to a bastardized form of illegitimate government.

The next Tea Party may well be over two million, it is Common Sense that push leads to shove and it is a very foolish to play that game with those numbers just outside your door. It is hard to believe they are that stupid and ignorant, please tell me they are not.

 

Republicans...get a spine or step aside!

kateusa Saturday, December 12th at 10:41PM EST (link)

YOU will be blamed if this bill goes through and you did not do everything you could to stop it.

What we need are tough, red-blooded, freedom-loving Americans to stand up and fight, and go toe-to-toe with the communist faction in Congress, to stand on the Capitol steps with a bull-horn if necessary and let the American people know what’s really going on. Instead, we’ve elected people who want to play patty-cake.

 

Tea Party Support and the "I Object" Campaign

gman_2008 Sunday, December 13th at 12:29AM EST (link)

Erick,

Great post. I wanted to take the opportunity to let your readers know of a group called Tea Party Support – http://teapartysupport.org. Tea Party Support and the Social Security Institute – www.socialsecurityinstitute.org – were running a campaign called “I Object” starting early last week covering this exact topic. Over 1.5 million emails were sent out.

The purpose of the campaign was to expose the cowardice of the Republican leadership and the bravery of Senator Jim DeMint. DeMint’s strategy was to throw every procedural hurdle possible to block ObamaCare. No other Republican stood with him. In fact, when Durbin threatened to keep the Senate in session 24 hours a day, 7 days a week the Republicans folded – vacatin over country. McConnell’s real strategy is to give the appearence of fighting this bill while actually wanting it to pass so the GOP can use this as a weapon next year to secure more seats. Self-interest over country. The strategy is so myopic that McConnell deserves to lose his leadership seat. I agree that if the Senate GOP does the right thing and throws procedural hurdles we should applaud them. If they do not, then we should take every necessary step to let the public know of their treachery.

Rush Limbaugh picked up on our story and The Hill wrote a piece about Rush’s verbal tongue lashing of McConnell. The story can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/yjgjx56. The story refers to us as Tea Party and in the comments you can see multiple attempts to get them to correct their story and mention Tea Party Support. You were also mentioned in that story.

Some progress is being made. A few days ago, CBS reported that Michael Steele sent a memo to the Senate GOP telling them to pull out all the stops and use every trick in the book to stop ObamaCare – http://tinyurl.com/ylx53t7. TPS followed that story up with a press release this morning: Rush Limbaugh & Michael Steele Join Tea Party Support & Social Security Institute-Demand GOP Senate Stop ObamaCare by Any Means Possible – http://tinyurl.com/ydvarwg.

We all need to keep presurring the Senate GOP to do the right thing and stand with Senator DeMint and object.

 

Something Important that needed to be said

mondoreb Sunday, December 13th at 2:38AM EST (link)

“Fight” is exactly right.

This is not a bill about which to be worried about style points. The Dems had no compunction about bringing the Senate to a crawl over routine judge appointments.

This is not a bill for Senators to be afraid of offending their colleagues. They should be offended that the “World’s Greatest Deliberative Body” is trying to foist this abomination on their country.

Fight!–every day, every hour, to the max!

 

health

sarge324 Sunday, December 13th at 6:47AM EST (link)

what are the republicans doing.they have to fight these parasites from taking our freedom.democrates are all about greedom as long as their pockets are lined with your tax money.for god sakes ever one on the side of live liberty and the persuit of happiness should speak loud let their voices be heard over those who want to take it away.

 

Elections Have Consequences,

jacon4 Sunday, December 13th at 8:57AM EST (link)

and, although those consequences are pretty grim from the last election, it does no good to whine about them.

I guess it’s fair to criticize Mitch Mcconnell’s senate strategy however, to fillibuster every amendment is kinda pointless unless ones goal is to delay. I think his goal is to kill the bill and failing that, limit the damage as much as possible. He simply does not have the numbers to do much else.

jacon4, I agree with you...but only partially. (GOP Senate, I hope you're reading this)

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 9:38AM EST (link)

He simply does not have the numbers to do much else.

In this article, Erick laid out many, many options that just one Senator can employ, to slow this bill.

It may reach the point where McConnell has only ugly options left—but they’re still options, that can work. Plus, we’re at the point where most Americans want this Obamacare abomination stopped. Even if that means we have to use pontoon bridges for a while, until we rebuild the permanent stone bridges McConnell had to destroy, in order to protect American health care from mortal wounds.

I hope Senator McConnell and the GOP leadership are reading these posts. Moreover, I hope they realize that many, many GOP voters are informed about this process, and understand what options a Senate minority does have.

If the GOP brain trust has determined that, someway or somehow, the GOP and conservatism can benefit, in some way/shape/form, from Obamacare’s passage—then they need to tell us. Quickly, and convincingly.

Is is something that the GOP leadership can’t say in public, lest the MSM crucify them? OK—get Karl Rove or Patrick Ruffini or some other credible source to report on it. Have “Deep Throat” call Erick.

In case you haven’t noticed, GOP leadership, the base’s trust in its leadership is slipping. Do you want to see that trust crash? Allow Obamacare to cross over the bridges and capture America’s health care system, and it will crash.

No, you don’t have the troops or ammo to stop it in the preferred manner—by voting it down. But the Constitution and Senate procedures have wired the bridges for you, and the detonator is in your hand.

I give the GOP Senate much more credit than many on these boards do. However, I don’t see a rational reason for allowing Obamacare to pass. Moreover, I agree with the vast majority of the commenters on these boards, that it’s worth blowing up the bridges in order to stop it.

Am I wrong? OK—convince us. Otherwise, stop this thing.

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

 
 

McConnell is a brilliant

jacon4 Sunday, December 13th at 10:25AM EST (link)

senate parliamentarian in my view but the idea that he would engage in “blowing up the bridges” just isnt in the cards. He is going to give it his best shot and if he loses, live to fight another day.

Then, jacon4, he will reap what he sows.

smagar (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 2:38PM EST (link)

If that’s his plan, he needs to get out and tell all of us exactly how we can live, in some way/shape/form, with Obamacare. He needs to justify why he’s not going to light the fuse.

“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)

 
 

thanks for the detailed explanation. nt

clowngirl (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 11:03PM EST (link)

One more power grab

robert23 Monday, December 14th at 10:13AM EST (link)

These Leftist/statist have been dismantling our Constitution and Rights as a free people for a hundred years now. This HealthCare sham is to date their biggest power grab-far beyond Healthcare.

As they have come this close I do not see the Leftist/statist giving up power to anything so trite as an election in 2010.

 

They do not care.

proudmarinemom (Diary) Monday, December 14th at 10:25AM EST (link)

Remember what Stalin said: “Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.” They don’t care what the polls show, they don’t care that they would lose seats in a fair election because they don’t intend to allow a fair election to take place.

I’ll be there tomorrow at 1:30, along with Laura Ingraham and others, but I do not expect them to listen. I’m going so that I can tell my grandchildren that, back in the olden days, when Communism was just taking hold in America, I really, really tried to stop it.

 

Fight

sammyc Monday, December 14th at 10:27AM EST (link)

Tell us what to do to change the fact that the Republican Senators are not listening to the people. I call, write and email, all to no avail. I get pat letters back that prove they don’t even read what I write. We have had the tea parties, Town Hall meetings, and these with little or with no results as far as the Senators responses go. I am willing to do things, if you tell me what I need to do. I am one person, with limited capabilities as I am handicapped, but will work hard for the cause. We are in need a strong leader, one who can pull the party together and we need to stop the in-fighing. From what I can observe that is why we get nothing done. we are finger pointing and spinning our wheels. There is NO way this bill should have gotten to this point. And if it is signed we will never get rid of it.

 

No matter how you respond...

Ned Reck (Diary) Monday, December 14th at 12:03PM EST (link)

Notwithstanding the differing responses to the GOP’s heretofore tepid approach to this egregious legislation …

This topic header has got to be one of the most motivationally inspiring pieces that I have read in some time. I have emailed Eric’s patriotic and impassioned call to “Fight” to everybody that I know.

Ned Reck

On the plains of “Hesitation”… lie the blackened bones of
countless millions… who… at the dawn of victory…
sat down to rest… and while resting….. DIED.
~ Anonymous