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RS

EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Fight.

“If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”

— Winston Churchill

“If the Republicans want the news media to cover what they are doing to educate the American people even further about the atrociousness of this bill, they have to create drama on the floor of the Senate.”

The Founding Fathers created a Republic, but 60 Senators are poised to take it away. With the pending disaster of the passage in the Senate of a bill nationalizing one sixth of the U.S. economy and our entire healthcare system at a cost of over $2.5 trillion, we are faced with a crucial question: are the Republican senators using every means at their disposal to stop this looming, tyrannical abuse of power? Unfortunately, the answer appears to be “no.”

The Senate, unlike the House of Representatives, has parliamentary rules and procedures that give the minority the ability to stall legislation. In fact, unlike the House, the minority have the ability to virtually paralyze the Senate. Doing so is not something we would want or expect for every bad bill that comes through Congress, but the proposed healthcare legislation is probably the worst piece of legislation ever considered by the United States Congress. It is the most intrusive, most damaging, most costly, most dangerous bill to the economic and personal freedom and liberty of individual Americans that Congress has ever considered. If there is any bill that deserves being stopped by shutting down the Senate, it is this one.

There are a whole series of parliamentary maneuvers that could be used by Republican senators to stop this bill. There is a hard backstop to the current process (Christmas). The Republicans’ goal should be to prevent Reid from passing the bill before that time. If he goes past Christmas and is forced to adjourn or recess, the momentum will shift in favor of those opposing the bill.

How could this be done?

To start with, they should stop constantly agreeing to “unanimous consent” requests from the Democrats. Senate Republicans, to date, have allowed Democrats, by unanimous consent, to process 10 amendments. The amendments that have been accepted – Democrat amendments – did not make the over 2000-page atrocity any better. The Republican strategy of trying to pass their own “message” amendments carries no message unless you consider “no strategy to kill the bill” a message. There are no amendments that could possibly make this bill a palatable piece of legislation – and any amendments the Republicans get passed that supposedly make the bill “better” may just make it easier for the Democrats to get final passage. If the Republicans want the news media to cover what they are doing to educate the American people even further about the atrociousness of this bill, they have to create drama on the floor of the Senate. And the only way to do that is through an all-out fight with no holds barred. They need to look like Braveheart, fighting to the end to save freedom. Because, in fact, it is our very freedom and liberty that is at stake.

The most powerful words in the Senate are “I object.” Senate Republicans should have been shouting those two words on the Senate floor early and often from the moment this bill was considered, instead of the complete silence we have heard – other than to constantly agree to conduct business through unanimous consent. Here are just a few ways those words can (and should) be used in a very effective way:

The rules of the Senate require that a quorum be present to transact business. A quorum is 51 Senators. In most instances, outside of roll call votes, there are no more than 4 Senators on the Senate floor. If a Republican Senator suggested the absence of a quorum, Democrats could not transact business on the bill. It is a common courtesy to allow the quorum call to be dispensed with, without requiring 51 members to show up on the Senate floor (to get 51 Senators to appear without a roll call vote is very time consuming). When the Democrats ask unanimous consent that the quorum call be dispensed with, the Republican should immediately shout “I object.”

In 1988, when the Democrats were attempting to pass campaign finance reform, and Republicans refused to help them make a quorum, it took 53 hours for the quorum call to be dispensed with. If at any moment at least 50 Democrats are not on the floor, a Republican Senator could again suggest the absence of a quorum and start the process over again, causing huge delays in the legislative process being able to move forward.

No amendment can automatically or without substantial delay receive a roll call vote without every member of the Senate agreeing. Again, the Senate generally operates on collegial courtesy, but a $2.5 trillion courtesy is too much. Once an amendment is pending, it only takes one Senator to step in front of this freight train. If a Senator objects to ending debate on the amendment or having the amendment set aside, the majority must file cloture on the amendment. First cloture has to ripen and it cannot ripen until the next day’s session of the Senate, so that kills a day of the majority’s time. Assuming 60 Senators vote in favor of ending debate, the Senate is then required to spend 30 hours of its session time before voting on final passage for the amendment. Suffice it to say, if the Republicans had continuously objected from the start, the ten amendments they allowed the majority to process would have taken more days than Harry Reid has on the Senate calendar.

Senators have an obligation to protect the Constitution and the budget and points of order can be raised on both. Many constitutional scholars have pointed out that numerous bill provisions, particularly the individual mandate, are unconstitutional. Under the Senate’s rules, constitutional points of order are debatable. The Republicans should be constantly bringing up constitutional points of order, one after another, on every questionable provision. Reid would presumably be forced to file cloture on the points of order and another three days could be burned up on each one.

The healthcare bill violates § 425(a)(2) of the Budget Act, which prohibits consideration of any legislation that contains an unfunded intergovernmental mandate in excess of $69 million per year. If the point of order is raised and sustained, a simple majority may vote to waive the point of order. But the waiver is debatable and thus would presumably require 60 votes to cloture the motion to waive. This would require them to produce 60 votes at a time when they do not have their deal wrapped up yet, once again burning up three days.

On every vote, including on constantly raised points of order, the Republicans should be objecting that the vote total is incomplete – the Democratic Chair will rule that it is complete and the Republicans then appeal and once again force a vote, delaying the process again and again.

The Republicans should be offering one amendment after another on all of their favorite issues such as guns, abortion, elimination of the death tax, ending the TARP program, and gay marriage in the District of Columbia. Nothing connotes trench warfare like non-germane amendments on hot-button social issues. When you look back at all of the great filibusters of past decades, they almost always involved non-germane, explosive amendments on contentious social and other issues. Republicans should be offering hundreds of such amendments on every topic and using the rules to force votes on every single one. And the Republicans should be forcing the reading of the bill and every single amendment, not consenting to waiving that requirement.

Some might argue that Republicans should not look “obstructionist.” But they are wrong – the vast majority of Americans don’t like this bill and don’t want it to pass. The Tea Party movement was the upheaval of millions of ordinary Americans who are scared and angry about the out-of-control growth of the federal government, federal spending, and the national debt. They want to see the Republicans obstructing passage of this bill and if they think the Republicans are not fighting with every tool they have at their disposal, then any advantage that the Republicans think they will get in next year’s elections from such a bill being passed will evaporate. Conservatives will mount challenges to what they see as weak Republicans, just like what happened in New York’s special congressional race, helping Democrats eek out wins. And other conservative will stay home (like they did in 2008) rather than support GOP incumbents who did not fight.

The view coming out of the Senate of the Republicans has the appearance of business-as-usual – colloquies, speeches, and unanimous consent agreements. It does not convey the sense of urgency that should come with an issue of this magnitude and it does not provide any assurance to the public, including most especially the conservative base that is the heart of the Republican Party, that Republican Senators are willing to do everything it takes to stop this bill. If they don’t starting acting forcefully quickly and immediately, not only will they allow the country’s future to be unalterably damaged, they will be hastening the end to their own careers in the elections coming down the road faster than they can imagine.

Finally, I often hear that Senators express frustration when we dare to tell them how to fight, and that their frequent refrain is “you just don’t understand how the Senate works.” Actually some of us understand better than they do how it should work (whether they agree with every particular parliamentary tactic described or not), and the current frustration they feel with us will be nothing like what they may feel if they don’t stop this bill at all costs and act to preserve our Republic.

“A Republic, if you can keep it.”

— Benjamin Franklin

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COMMENTS

  • izoneguy

    Thanks a lot Joe……

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/12/senate-poised-advance-t-spending/

    Creeping closer & closer to socialism……

    There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

  • bs

    Led by Mitch McConnell, the biggest eunuch of the bunch. This is the biggest bunch of pussified wimps that I’ve seen in my life. What the HELL do they think they’re accomplishing by rolling over to this bunch of socialist punks?

    It just pisses me off more every time you post on this. But frankly, if McConnell is the best we can do for “leadership”, we deserve to have our asses kicked, as we obviously don’t have the brains to put a better leader in place.

    Gutless. Cowardly. Wimps.

  • Richard Mullins

    I really need to beat him and Snowe for their votes on cloture. We did get a few donks, but those idiots need to be taught a lesson.

  • RJD

    GOP’s Senators? Everything that can be sent to those elected officials to inform them of the situation – and their situation – is vital.
    This should be a call to action.

  • AceInTX

    I often hear that Senators express frustration when we dare to tell them how to fight, and that their frequent refrain is ?we just don?t understand how the Senate works.?

    sad thing is…McCain Fiengold has insulated them from any real challenges because we can’t band our funds together and challenge them…but we have to do something…and soon!

  • GregInFla

    they were trying to slow down the bill. Rush criticized McConnell, and he got this response. I just wonder what McConnell thinks “slowing down” really means. What school did he go to?

  • AceInTX

    and being a purist…and being dangerous for the party…

    just shut up and get in line!

  • mbecker908

    It’s McConnell etal.

    There is no leadership in the party.

  • http://BrentTeichman.wordpress.com Brent Teichman

    Praise the Lord! (And pass the ammunition). We’re gonna need it if this thing passes. Fight, dammit…FIGHT!

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    so-called “conservative” Senators from employing the parliamentary tactics you outlined?

    Each Senator has the right to invoke these rules (for example, the call for a quorum) on their own, no? Seriously, what “power” do the likes of McConnell and Kyl have over ANY single senator with a backbone?

    I believe ALL of them have proven themselves to be cowards. Not one of them has eloquently explained to the American people that the Debtocrats are purposely destroying the economy and infringing on the individual rights of the people. Any one of them could do so on the floor of either chamber. The closest any of the Republicans have come to eloquence and truth-telling has been Joe Wilson: “You Lie!”

    And then they all fell all over themselves apologizing.

    Pathetic.

    Thank you.
    ColdWarrior

  • http://www.erickerickson.org Erick Erickson

    n/t

  • Mayhem

    Erick, you’ve got me fired up and ready to go. I am disgusted with the Senate GOP. I went into this process convinced that this bill would be delayed to death, because that is what the Senate GOP told us would happen after the House passed the bill. I’m not sure if this is how they interperet “delay” or if they were just lying to us, but either way I am pissed.

    I am most upset with Tom Coburn and Jim DeMint. These are our front line warriors and I have heard nothing from them on the procedure side of this. Where are they? Unanimous consent implies all 100 Senators agree. Well, Coburn and DeMint cold easily make it only 98 or 99, thereby triggering all the procedures listed in this post. Coburn said he was going to have the bill read on the floor. Gregg issued a “battle plan” of Senate procedures to give us weapons to fight this. DeMint said this would be Obama’s “Waterloo.” Where the heck are they?

    No doubt the leadership has shut them up. But these are unanimous consent requests. They don’t need the leadership’s permission to object. That is a right that they can invoke personally. If this is the fight to save our Republic, then why the heck aren’t our guys chucking grenades into the enemy trenches!

    Coburn and DeMint, where are you??

  • Mayhem

    One Senator objecting to these UC requests is a great strategy from the leadership standpoint. If McConnell is worried about “image” and “obstructionism,” then he should approach one good Senator and ask him to take the floor and lead the charge of objections. If McConnell is doing it, it might look like it is a concerted GOP effort, but if one GOP does it, he can have his hands “clean” of it while allowing the bill to stall.

  • Achance

    Southern Democrat senators forstalled every attempt to pass effective civil rights legislation defying their Party, two of their Presidents, and the popular will outside their states. They used the filibuster, the real stand up and speak filibuster endless to either thwart legislation altogether or to render it merely symbolic as was the case with the ’57 and ’60 legislation.

    Any of the Republican senators could endlessly frustrate the majority and prevent passage of CommieCare. It is evident that they care more for their standing in the DC cocktail circuit than for their states and their Country.

  • izoneguy

    What these wankers don’t get is that – unless they fight now then they will be gone and they won’t get to go to anymore DC cocktail parties.

  • Achance

    making even more money in the process. Once you send them to DC, they never come back to the district or state.

  • izoneguy

    Remember, how he was going to take down the status quo of “business as usual”? How he was going to restrict lobbying?
    It is even worse now. Federal employees are gulping down the gravy as fast as it is put in front of them.

    And good old fashioned civil war is coming and they don’t even know it.

  • mbecker908

    The very vast majority of US Senators are unbeatable. Plus, in two or four years this vote will be long forgotten by “most” people.

  • Tony82

    … They are, after all, the Senate’s “bomb throwers”.

    Coburn’s office told me earlier this week that he still plans to have the bill read… obviously hasn’t happened yet.

    If we all put concerted pressure on our two stalwarts, surely at least one will come through…

  • Achance
  • Tony82

    DeMint: 202-224-6121
    Coburn: 202-224-5754

  • Scope

    n/t

  • tonywarren

    This is the perfect example of why the Grassroots Patriots, aka Tea Party people, Must come together and take over the GOP. We know how to FIGHT SOCIALISM! You don’t do it by compromising with them, you get in their face and SCREAM at them!

    If the GOP doesn’t grow a set, they will be left on the trash heap of history where they belong. RINOs are going extinct.

  • Scope

    Although EE diaries over the past few days all seem to be saying the same thing you have for quite a while. I think our leader has gotten pretty mad, and, is giving it all he’s got. Helps when your voice is becoming more and more influential nationwide.

  • honorable

    By now I am sure they would read an email from you. Did anyone respond to your email and some of the parliamentary tactics you mentioned?

  • Jesse V

    Where is the Republican leadership in this fight? These wussies are driving me crazy. Their lack of grit and soine is what got them in trouble with the American people last time and they are just repeating the same mistakes.

    Dang it – If the TEA Party movement candidate wouldn’t allow the libtards to keep control of congress I would just vote against every Republican I could. What a bunch of cowardly losers the Republicans are!

    Hear me you Republican COWARDS in the Seante! You are as bad as the libtards in selling us out and destroying this country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Scope

    because the entire GOP HAS NOT banded together and started shouting, and using their collective efforts to bury this dam@ bill. For McConnell to fear looking like an obstructionist is laughable, as whether he is or is not, according the MSMers he is still painted that way. He needs to earn the title.

  • Scope

    because the entire GOP HAS NOT banded together and started shouting, and using their collective efforts to bury this dam@ bill. For McConnell to fear looking like an obstructionist is laughable, as whether he is or is not, according the MSMers he is still painted that way. He needs to earn the title.

  • Jesse V

    This is no longer America!

    People we have been sold out. The looters in Washington care only about keeping their power and enslaving us so they can steal our homes, our bank accounts and our lives.

    Its time to start talking about secession. We have no representaion in Washington. They’re not listening to us! They don’t care what we want, only how they can line their pockets and fill their coffers from our blood, sweat and tears.

    If secession is not an option then its time for a real revolution to re-found OUR Country!

    Its time to find a region of this country, move there, take it over, vote in conservatives and then secede from the USSA.

  • Mayhem

    I’m just saying form McConnell’s standpoint, it would allow him to still appear “colloquial” (since that seems to be so important to him) and still appease the base.

  • Ausonius

    When the “leader” of the Republican Senators says he wants to “slow things down,” he is saying that the bill will pass, and they will not bother with any Alamo-defense of what is left of the American Republic.

    America: whither goest thou?

  • http://www.thehayride.com MacAoidh

    …so go on their Facebook pages and write on their walls with this link and a demand that they not just vote against the bill but ACT TO KILL IT.

    I just wrote on David Vitter’s wall. The link is here, if you can see it: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Senator-David-Vitter/53906687963?ref=nf

  • Dan Perrin

    Well said!

    Your prescription is exactly what needs to happen!

    EXACTLY!

    Who has the courage to stand and OBJECT?

    WHO WANTS TO BE A HERO?

    WHO?

  • viperowens

    Eric I agree with everything you have stated in this Blog. I am going to forward this to my congressman here in California, Buck McKeon and maybe he can get it to a conservative senator that can help and see that these actions are pursued. Wish we had Senators in this state that we could rely on, but unfortunately that is not the case. Both are Democrats, liberal ones at that…..and both just totally worthless. No redeeming qualities what-so-ever.
    Anyway…be well in all that you do.

  • countessolenska

    …for McConnell to have one or more than one Republican senator do what’s necessary. Picking McCain as their attack dog doesn’t get it. What are they thinking? I don’t think McCain is that likable anymore.

  • redneck_hippie

    at his disposal. If you are a general, I think I just saw you slap and punch a few men who were facing the wrong way.

    My prayer is that McConnell really was running reconnaissance like he told Rush a couple of days ago. He said the messaging amendments were in order to figure out who they could work on.

    In any case, thank you so much for all you do.

  • EagleWatcher

    It’s time to take the gloves off and call the Dems what they are: Political gangsters who don’t give a rip about the Constitution.

  • http://www.theminorityreportblog.com/blog/loren_heal Socrates

    He should be out in front calling for the label as the one obstructing it. That way the whole party gets credit for beating back the Marxists. But it it’s just Jim DeMint, that’s OK too, because we can still take credit for it, but we must have done the work

  • jacquesUSA

    Eric,

    You encapsulated our dilemma an provide an excellent blueprint for fighting back!

    YOUR LETTER NEEDS TO BE HAND DELIVERED TO EVERY REPUBLICAN SENATOR!

    What part of the gravity of the situation do the Republicans not get?

    A number of RINOs need leave in 2010, but for now we can not sit idly by while week kneed Republicans don’t even try to fight with EVERY tool and EVERY last breat they have.

    Semper Fidelis,
    Semper Vigilante,

    Jacques Ditte

    “A Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever.”
    ?John Adams in a Letter to Abigail Adams (July 7, 1775)

  • snopercod

    You wrote a brilliant and much-needed summary of where we are headed and what needs to be done to stop it.

    I immediately faxed it to McConnell’s office (he probably has about a thousand copies by now).

    I also posted a snippet on the Asheville Tea Party blog. I hope that’s OK.

  • strikeeagle

    Just what do the Republicans see as the down-side of fighting this?

    - They?d be with the Majority of the American People? that?s not ?obstructionist? and the polls show the people are ignoring the MSM on this issue

    - They?d show everyone they are ?re-branded? and not the party of ?04-?06 aka ?Democrat-lite?

    - They?d be killing a horrible, monstrosity piece of legislation – Senators should do that regardless

    - They?d keep their base fired for the next election up rather than pissing it off

    IF NOT THIS BILL – WHAT ISSUE WOULD THEY ?GO TO THE MATS? FOR?

    The immediate threat is 60 for Cloture, 50+Biden to pass (10 Dems get cover), over to Pelosi and her ?bunch of miss nancies? (ref UrbanDictionary), no conference, 218 there, and onto Obama for signature by Christmas

    PS – Is McConnell so naive to believe the Dems will be this ?gentlemenly?, if happens to become the next Majority Leader?!

    ?All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing? ? Edmund Burke

  • http://vbushmills.blogtownhall.com/ vassar

    For some time now my little group has been suggesting that the GOP put the mark of anathema, what Moses Sands called the “skunk eye” on any GOP member who voted with the majority, with Snowe and Collins in mind. Cut them off, bar them from meetings, refuse to speak to them. Let them keep their own council. No Christmas cards.

    Maybe we had it backwards. Maybe, as Mr Erickson suggests, that an act of high drama needs to executed in order to draw attention not just to the capriciousness of the majority, but the timidity of the minority.

    You bet. Who can forget Mr Smith Goes to Washington? Is Jim DeMint the man?

    But it does seems one man, ONE MAN, staking out a spot, under a banner we already know over 50% of the American people follow…on high ground…and announcing to the world he is cutting off all cordiality, collegiality and social intercourse with his own party…etc…Wow!

    Imagine, with flashbulbs going off, DeMint telling McConnell and the whole rest of the pack…If you want to let Olympia Snowe and Susie Collins hang out with you…from where the sun now stands, I won’t hang out with you…forever.

    Now that’s drama. That’s also what I would do, knowing the stakes. I suspect Mr Erickson would to. Who would want to share the comfort of the Senate Clubhouse with those who are unwilling to shed their blood with me? (Henry V, sort of.)

    Is there even one in the United States Senate, Jim DeMint included, however vile, would want to have his condition truly made gentle…for all history, to the ending of the world?

    Yes, that’s the ticket.

    Thanks, Mr Erickson.
    VB

  • izoneguy

    http://goooh.com/home.aspx

  • anotherindyfilmguy

    we deserve, so to speak… now perhaps comes the time when the government starts coming to get us?

    (posted by random thought criminal #19538302 and in no way affiliated with anotherindyfilmguy last time I checked…)

  • Highmaintfmale

    According to a recent Rasmussen poll November 30, 2009, only 33% of all Americans feel their congressional representatives deserve to be re-elected, translation : 67% of us are awake and ready to hand out some pink slips of our own in 2010, even more in 2012.

    Does this headline news honestly come as a big surprise to anyone?

    On several occasions in just the past 90 days our “elected officials” you know, those whom we’ve sent to Washington D.C. to represent us, aka “we the people” have voted in direct contrast to what “we the people” want.

    They can’t use the excuses that seem quite popular and ‘en vogue these days especially when it comes to “The One” in the Oval Office, “I misspoke” he was “misunderstood, miss-informed” he “miss-calculated” “that’s not the Reverend Wright I knew,” “That’s not the Bill Ayers I knew” or my personal favorite, “the police acted stupidly.”

    With such a stellar example of what our “elected officials” in many cases have become, is it any wonder why the American people see many of their current congressional and senatorial representatives as pathetic examples of “We the people’s” representatives?

    This isn’t exactly rocket science, in just Wisconsin alone over 8,500 people gathered on the front lawn of the capital building in Madison on April 15, 2009, followed through the summer by countless other gatherings, 3,000 in Greenville, 1,500 in Fond Du Lac, more than 4,000 in Sheboygan, and 15,000 people in Milwaukee stopped what they were doing, took the time to attend a T.E.A. Party(s) trying to send their message and “Make a Roar They Can’t Ignore”.

    Similarly, on 9/12/09, 2 million traveled to Washington D.C. and then 60,000 gathered there again a few short weeks later, for the same reason adding to millions of others in every state across the country, I’d say the writing is for the most part not just on the wall, but indeed all over the wall!

    Yet still, despite millions chanting their opposition all over the country, and EVERY poll that comes out indicating the same sentiments, somehow, some way, in a land far far away from Sheboygan, WI. called Washington D.C. our congressional and senatorial leaders just can’t, or won’t hear us, and neither apparently will our president.

    Senators have now changed the rules of who can enter the Senate Building in order to keep constituents at bay; they take their phones off the hook to ignore our calls; refuse to accept faxes and emails; refuse repeated requests to meet with constituents, and on the rare occasions they do respond, they send form letters thanking us for supporting them.

    Senators call American citizens “evil-mongers,” “terrorists” and “radicals.”
    This Senatorial disdain for the majority of American citizens is an outrage, they believe they, as one individual, are far more informed, knowledgeable, and enlightened than those they represent, and as a result, they continue to cast their votes against the wishes of the people insisting (among other things) that we “just don’t understand” or that they are “doing it for the good of the people”.

    STOP THE MADNESS! Get off the couch, Turn off the T.V., Put away the video games, gather your friends and loved ones, and get moving.

    WAKE UP!!! at this very moment, Your COUNTRY, your RIGHTS, and your FREEDOM are in very serious JEOPARDY.

    Do you REALLY want the government, any government, let alone this one, deciding your fate or that of Your children and grandchildren?

    Do you REALLY believe the government will do what is best for you or your loved ones when you or that loved one are seriously ill and in need of extensive medical care? Or, will they do what is least expensive, or most “cost effective,” all the while spending lavishly on European Vacations, Hawaiian luaus at the White House, and New York Dates?

    Do you REALLY believe, based upon all the broken promises in the past 10 months, that much of anything this administration says is truthful, or in this county’s best interest, not to mention yours, your children’s or grandchildren’s?

    If you do, I’ve got some swampland in the Arizona Desert to sell you, that is, if you can get a loan, or hold on to your job long enough to make the payments on it… but hey, the good news is, you might qualify for a nice big Tax credit courtesy of… yup you guessed it, “The Government” and “The ONE”.

    If you’re one of the REALLY lucky ones, you can drive to your new Arizona swampland in your new vehicle bought at a steal of a deal when…Gasp, yup you guessed it AGAIN, your Government and “The ONE” gave you that “Cash for Clunkers” program incentive / deal!

    Come on people… what are you waiting for?

    Do you honestly think a handful of people, your loved ones, friends and neighbors, can win this battle alone while you sit back and do nothing except “talk” about what “a sad state of affairs things are right now”, and how “someone, should really do SOMETHING” but, you? Well your too busy watching American Idol, or playing “Fantasy Football.”

    Do you think all there is to it, is attending a tea party, and once you’ve done that you have done your part?

    ARE YOU GOING TO STAND AND FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS AND FREEDOM?

    Or will you sit quietly in front of your T.V. watching eating and drinking only what they still allow you to, when they allow you to, (which will be of course) always done in the “best interest of the health and welfare of all Americans.” That has already begun, i.e. transfats? Banned. Sugar? Taxed. Caffeine? Limited,..etc. (that is, for as long as they allow you to get it at all) before they march you out to the street for, oh say… Mandatory Volunteer Government Service? foxnews.com/…/house-readies-passage-volunteerism-critics-pricey-forced-service/

    If you think I am joking think AGAIN, I’m not.

    Your children can no longer get a student loan anywhere except through the government, the Government now controls who gets an education and who doesn’t, did you know this? www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/17/politics/main5317823.shtml

    Rasmussen Reports 53-56% of Americans oppose any health care legislation at all, 60% of Americans say it will increase the deficit, and 71% of Americans are angry at the Federal Government. Yet the US Senate is determined to vote this bill into law anyway. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

    WAKE UP! WAKE UP! WAKE UP! YOUR ALREADY LATE, SOON YOU WILL BE TOO LATE .

  • pjpony

    Sherrod Brown bought by Soros, Voinovich sits and watches congress steal us blind and votes Present because he’s retiring. SO WHAT, you should still do your job while you’re there!! WE still have to pay your Present only a$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • smagar

    That way, as you get more and more replies—as you should—it will become obvious who hasn’t replied.

  • smagar
  • smagar

    I’m with Erick: the Senate GOP must stop this bill. Erick’s laid out all sorts of ways in which they can do it. It won’t be pretty, but I prefer that to losing quality healthcare.

    I think Senator McConnell is a much better legislator than many on these boards give him credit for. Neverthless…the bottom line is that this bill not pass.

    I can understand McConnell not blowing the bridges the minute this debate began. Maybe there were some opportunities to kill the bill through negotiation.

    But, if the time comes that blowing the bridges is our only option, then light the fuse.

    Now, if Senator McConnell and the GOP leadership have some bold plan, under which we’d all benefit if this bill WERE to pass…OK; let’s hear it. I can’t think of anything that would make me root for this bill’s passage, but I’ll listen. For a little while longer. But they’ll have to sell all of us on it—and I can’t imagine any case so compelling that it would convince us to go along with Obamacare.

    Any sensible plan I can think of results in Obamacare being killed. Erick’s right; it’s so bad at its core that you can’t improve it enough to make it palatable.

    Therefore, Senate GOP, be sure you kill this bill. Even if you have to blow the bridges.

  • http://sleepyeyedwhiners.blogspot.com Jay

    Erick –

    Such an extremely important post. So much so that I reposted on my site (hope that’s ok) and I emailed our safe Georgia senators to reiterate that we expect them to take advantage of the relative safety of their seats to be leaders and to prevent this crap with every ounce of their being.

    We shall see. Keep up the fight. Nice to see you on TV these days taking the fight to the enemy.

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    Is it anything like actually becoming involved in grass roots politics as a Republican Party precinct committeeman to fill up the fifty per cent of the PC slots nationwide in the Republican Party?

    You can read about that strategy, and how to implement it, here:

    www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com

    Thank you,
    ColdWarrior

  • Tbone

    it will be that the Republicans let them.

    Who should I despise more?

  • Tbone

    I think that many Republicans are just as convinced of their infallibility as to decide what is good for the rest of us as any Democrat.

  • peg_c

    Sharing with all my FB peeps. I am working hard to make as many people as possible understand that America is in a fight to the death for our freedom and liberty. The fight is here with Congress over this abomination of a bill.

    If Republican senators allow this disaster to pass, we need to ensure every one of them gets targeted for removal at the earliest opportunity besides all the Dems we have to remove. What worries me is there is NOTHING they care about; not even their careers. Certainly not their country.

    What on earth kind of awful people have we elected to office?????

  • Highmaintfmale

    Cold, Thank You! This is exactly the sort of thing I was referring to.

    In the course of the past 30 days, my husband and I have spent more than 150 hours working on “taking back” our local county party.

    In the past six months, (and this is NOT an exaggeration) the number of hours we’ve put in totals over 1000. It can safely be said we have become two very sharp pointed thorns in the sides of those within our county party who were far too comfortable with the status quo, two thorns that simply WILL NOT give up, and DO NOT give in.

    The information you’ve provided here is fantastic THANK YOU!

    While most people can’t dedicate the amount of time we have to making the change happen, the fact is, most won’t have to,

    You will have to devote some time, some effort, and some energy to it, and it will definately take more then authoring a blog post, or attending a TEA Party.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love the TEA Parties, in fact in addition to the above mentioned hours spent within our local Republican Party, we’ve spent our “spare time” helping to organize, plan, advise and / or facilitate on a significant number of the TEA parties within our own state and others.

    So when I say,

    “Do you honestly think a handful of people, your loved ones, friends and neighbors, can win this battle alone while you sit back and do nothing except ?talk? about what ?a sad state of affairs things are right now?, and how ?someone, should really do SOMETHING? but, you? Well your too busy watching American Idol, or playing ?Fantasy Football.?

    I say it not only as someone frustrated and angry about what is happening in our country, but also as someone who not only practices what they preach, we live, breathe, eat, drink, and sleep what we preach,

    That having been said (and done) even we have so much more to learn, because honestly we were unaware of the information you posted in response to my post, we will absolutely act upon it without hesitation, and encourage others to do the same. Thank you!

    We MUST all be the change we want to see because if WE aren’t, who will be?

    Please let us know where we might be able to search for, and find more info about becoming precinct committeeman in our state.

  • janis

    “The Republicans who stood there with their thumbs in their butts and did nothing.” They knew that they were the only thing between us and ruin and they have done nothing to stop it.

    They are worthy only of our contempt if they continue to behave as they have so far.

  • janis

    or the medical care of their families in any way whatsoever. I happened to read the front page of Firedoglake last night when RedState went down. The lefties there are no more fond of this bill than our side is. More than one of them said that the bill should be gutted and should be written again from scratch.

    Of course they are not impressed with the bill because it doesn’t do what Obama promised during the campaign and they are livid that Reid moved to insert caps to limit spending, especially in the cases of those with very expensive treatment, as for cancers, AIDS, etc. and they are truly and hugely pissed over the PHARMA deals that would continue to ban cheaper imported drugs. However, in this case, the enemy of my enemy is truly my friend. I don’t care what it takes to defeat this monster. If they wish to hammer on their Senators as hard as we are hammering on ours, then more power to them. The elections next year may feature quite a few incumbents biting the dirt. Deservedly so.

  • writeblock

    Washinton D.C. pols have become so accustomed to the pervasive dishonesty and corruption that nothing seems to get a rise from them anymore–no matter which side of the aisle we’re talking about. It’s all too damned removed from ordinary plebian existence. There’s no sense of urgency or anger–another reason I prefer outsiders like Rudy or Sarah as politicians–they’ve remained close to the people. Rudy in particular still shows anger and fights mean when necessary. The polite, gentlemanly approach is self-defeating. We’re in a cold civil war here and it’s time the GOP realized this–beginning with Steele. His demeanor is disgustingly cheerful lately, out of all keeping with what’s happening in Washington. There’s too damn much gleeful anticipation of vote-getting down the road due to public anger–and not enough appreciation for the cause of the anger. Maybe it’s time for a real shake-up.

  • nessa

    KILL IT NOW, every day it lingers is another day it might get passed. Whatever McConnell wants he apparently doesn’t want it very bad. He appears to be willing for either outcome. If he truly cared we wouldn’t be wondering if he cared, we would know by his actions.

  • janis

    “Lay low and hope that the outrage over this will give the Republicans nice election results next November.” Apparently he is not savvy to the notion that we are not playing the game as we have in the past. We won’t buckle under and just support the incumbents without a whimper or a protest. We WILL make sure that as many of those who betrayed us suffer the defeat they will so richly deserve.

    And if they don’t come up until 2012 or 2014, they can comfort themselves that we will forget by then— they do not realize the rage that this has engendered in millions of us. And it’s not going away, no matter what the cynics think.

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    I have compiled what I could find and so far I think I have information for 22 or 23 states. Look on the list of state info. Some are great “how to” guides, some are just links to by-laws.

    Information on how to become a voting member of the Republican Party seems to the most closely guarded open secret of the GOP in some states, and certainly at the RNC. Trust me, the Establishment GOP and virtually all incumbents DO NOT want any of the unwashed masses of the Tea Party/912/town hall protester throngs coming into the Party and voting them and their friends out of both the Party leadership positions and out of their elected offices come the 2010 primary elections.

    If you need any further help, please e-mail me at coldwarrior1978@gmail.com

    Another effort is underway by some good folks:

    www.nationalprecinctalliance.org

    Other people have taken what I have compiled and put it on their blogs. The more the merrier!

    Thank you for all you are doing. Some will just sit on the sidelines. That’s just the way it is. So, those of us who are willing to get into the real ball game of party politics are just going to have to do the heavy lifting, all the while trying to recruit more who think like us to follow.

    Thank you.

    ColdWarrior

  • saterp

    If you think that Senate Republicans are friends of conservatism, then I think that you think wrongly.

  • Mary_Contrary

    Time to pray.

  • 1stRichard

    I am conservative, I am Inalienable Individual Liberty, I am Natural Law and Common Sense, and I am Individualism and Exceptionalism. When I hear a politician say we have equal rights governed by the government, especially healthcare, I know it is wrong and the majority knows it is wrong as well. Adolf Hitler and Anton Drexler were equal rights and we know how that turned out. Distracters of this fact only cite the results as politically incorrect whereas the conservative knows the Common Sense that stepping on to this path is wrong. We have Inalienable Individual Liberty and not rights given out in some socialist allotment. Natural Law is that we must have Suspicion of Power because we cannot foretell the future and Common Sense is that government is not always a benevolent provider. Therein so written in our Constitution, government must be limited and shall have enumerated power and the remainder shall be in the hands of the Individual States and mostly the Individual. Distracters call this blind adherence to the past and ridicule this as an obstruction of Progress forgoing the lessons history teaches. If our Elected few surrender the lessons history teaches they will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government. The Magnitude and Enormity thereof cannot be expressed in simple words, therein resulting in some Confrontation or Fight of equal proportion. The path these Elected few have stepped onto is extremely dangers and a threat to all. If not the Senate Republicans then who is going to fight? Will it be in the Senate with some resemblance of civility or without? At best, they have ended their career and at worst, it will be civil war if the Constitution is further perverted and subverted in to a bastardized form of illegitimate government.

    The next Tea Party may well be over two million, it is Common Sense that push leads to shove and it is a very foolish to play that game with those numbers just outside your door. It is hard to believe they are that stupid and ignorant, please tell me they are not.

  • kateusa

    YOU will be blamed if this bill goes through and you did not do everything you could to stop it.

    What we need are tough, red-blooded, freedom-loving Americans to stand up and fight, and go toe-to-toe with the communist faction in Congress, to stand on the Capitol steps with a bull-horn if necessary and let the American people know what’s really going on. Instead, we’ve elected people who want to play patty-cake.

  • gman_2008

    Erick,

    Great post. I wanted to take the opportunity to let your readers know of a group called Tea Party Support ? http://teapartysupport.org. Tea Party Support and the Social Security Institute ? www.socialsecurityinstitute.org – were running a campaign called ?I Object? starting early last week covering this exact topic. Over 1.5 million emails were sent out.

    The purpose of the campaign was to expose the cowardice of the Republican leadership and the bravery of Senator Jim DeMint. DeMint?s strategy was to throw every procedural hurdle possible to block ObamaCare. No other Republican stood with him. In fact, when Durbin threatened to keep the Senate in session 24 hours a day, 7 days a week the Republicans folded – vacatin over country. McConnell’s real strategy is to give the appearence of fighting this bill while actually wanting it to pass so the GOP can use this as a weapon next year to secure more seats. Self-interest over country. The strategy is so myopic that McConnell deserves to lose his leadership seat. I agree that if the Senate GOP does the right thing and throws procedural hurdles we should applaud them. If they do not, then we should take every necessary step to let the public know of their treachery.

    Rush Limbaugh picked up on our story and The Hill wrote a piece about Rush?s verbal tongue lashing of McConnell. The story can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/yjgjx56. The story refers to us as Tea Party and in the comments you can see multiple attempts to get them to correct their story and mention Tea Party Support. You were also mentioned in that story.

    Some progress is being made. A few days ago, CBS reported that Michael Steele sent a memo to the Senate GOP telling them to pull out all the stops and use every trick in the book to stop ObamaCare – http://tinyurl.com/ylx53t7. TPS followed that story up with a press release this morning: Rush Limbaugh & Michael Steele Join Tea Party Support & Social Security Institute-Demand GOP Senate Stop ObamaCare by Any Means Possible – http://tinyurl.com/ydvarwg.

    We all need to keep presurring the Senate GOP to do the right thing and stand with Senator DeMint and object.

  • http://deathby1000papercuts.com mondoreb

    “Fight” is exactly right.

    This is not a bill about which to be worried about style points. The Dems had no compunction about bringing the Senate to a crawl over routine judge appointments.

    This is not a bill for Senators to be afraid of offending their colleagues. They should be offended that the “World’s Greatest Deliberative Body” is trying to foist this abomination on their country.

    Fight!–every day, every hour, to the max!

  • sarge324

    what are the republicans doing.they have to fight these parasites from taking our freedom.democrates are all about greedom as long as their pockets are lined with your tax money.for god sakes ever one on the side of live liberty and the persuit of happiness should speak loud let their voices be heard over those who want to take it away.

  • jacon4

    and, although those consequences are pretty grim from the last election, it does no good to whine about them.

    I guess it’s fair to criticize Mitch Mcconnell’s senate strategy however, to fillibuster every amendment is kinda pointless unless ones goal is to delay. I think his goal is to kill the bill and failing that, limit the damage as much as possible. He simply does not have the numbers to do much else.

  • smagar

    …I’ve seen NO GOP leader—-with the exception of the Porkulus Sisters, perhaps—calling for a massive, radical restructuring of the nation’s health care system, plus the portion of our economy involved with heath chare. That’s what Obamacare is.

    The GOP has proposed health care revisions, such as the ability to buy health care coverage across state lines. But nothing of this scope.

    I get the sense that you see all Washington politicians as part of some “Borg” collective, all assimilated into one massive, malevolent force that wants to dominate us all. If that’s what you think, you’re watching too much television. Or listening too much to Ace and Jaded.

  • smagar

    IIRC, most anyone who understood the current state of Washington politics expected it to pass the House. Nancy Pelosi controls the process so fully there, it was hard to see the bill not passing out of the House.

    In fact, I remember quite a few commentators remarking how much trouble Pelosi had getting the bill passed.

  • JadedByPolitics

    throwing my name and Ace’s into every diary to explain how you need to move left? If that is the game plan so be it. If my name and Ace’s comes up as HARD CORE Conservatives then I accept that HONOR and look forward to it.

    BTW let me help you and when someone actually has REAL Conservative talking points in a diary you all could just reply Jaded & Ace…hell WE can get a button going so that those people will know RIGHT off the bat that they are part of the 40% of the electorate that is going to CHANGE the face of the Republican Party.

    Let’s give Cold Warrior his button too because he is the face of the INTERNAL Conservative TAKEOVER! He is how you get things done when you are sick to death of LIBERALS who call themselves Republicans!

  • JadedByPolitics

    I was down in DC that day protesting and I heard those idiots on the floor of the House passing their GARBAGE and I came home with a defeatist attitude and then I gathered myself to together and got to work on the Senate. I believe it will pass because there is a NEED for the Democrats to pass it for the Idiot in Chief to have his talking points in January.

    I don’t believe for one minute this monstrosity will not pass but I do believe it will be the battering RAM that WE will use in 2010 to end this reign of TERROR that WE have been under since January of 2009.

  • JadedByPolitics

    It cannot pass, they don’t have the votes

    BTW that is not to beat up on anyone it is strictly to answer your question. The last couple of weeks leading up to the vote the diaries were fast and furious as to how it COULD NEVER pass because the blue dogs were terrified etc.

    It had US in knots leading up to the night of the vote thinking there was a slim chance that it could NEVER pass because those idiots in Redstates who ran on fiscal Conservatism would NEVER lose their seats over this travesty of a bill. It is why the majority of US believe it will pass the Senate no matter what Reid does to it!

  • smagar

    He simply does not have the numbers to do much else.

    In this article, Erick laid out many, many options that just one Senator can employ, to slow this bill.

    It may reach the point where McConnell has only ugly options left—but they’re still options, that can work. Plus, we’re at the point where most Americans want this Obamacare abomination stopped. Even if that means we have to use pontoon bridges for a while, until we rebuild the permanent stone bridges McConnell had to destroy, in order to protect American health care from mortal wounds.

    I hope Senator McConnell and the GOP leadership are reading these posts. Moreover, I hope they realize that many, many GOP voters are informed about this process, and understand what options a Senate minority does have.

    If the GOP brain trust has determined that, someway or somehow, the GOP and conservatism can benefit, in some way/shape/form, from Obamacare’s passage—then they need to tell us. Quickly, and convincingly.

    Is is something that the GOP leadership can’t say in public, lest the MSM crucify them? OK—get Karl Rove or Patrick Ruffini or some other credible source to report on it. Have “Deep Throat” call Erick.

    In case you haven’t noticed, GOP leadership, the base’s trust in its leadership is slipping. Do you want to see that trust crash? Allow Obamacare to cross over the bridges and capture America’s health care system, and it will crash.

    No, you don’t have the troops or ammo to stop it in the preferred manner—by voting it down. But the Constitution and Senate procedures have wired the bridges for you, and the detonator is in your hand.

    I give the GOP Senate much more credit than many on these boards do. However, I don’t see a rational reason for allowing Obamacare to pass. Moreover, I agree with the vast majority of the commenters on these boards, that it’s worth blowing up the bridges in order to stop it.

    Am I wrong? OK—convince us. Otherwise, stop this thing.

  • AceInTX

    and they are just sitting back waiting for all the benefits to accrue to them while acting like they don’t have to do anything to earn the gift they’ve been given.

    Will we make gains in the House and Senator this year if they just set back and do nothing?

    Undoubtedly…but that shouldn’t be the question…the question is….how much more would we gain in the House and Senate if these ass clowns would channel the energy that is building…give it a voice…and give it an outlet…

    These guys could be out there anticipating a victory they haven’t won and doing nothing to capitalize on the outrage that is building to collasal levels in the electorate…how stupid id that?

  • jacon4

    senate parliamentarian in my view but the idea that he would engage in “blowing up the bridges” just isnt in the cards. He is going to give it his best shot and if he loses, live to fight another day.

  • AceInTX

    when I saw this coming…this is as predictable as the sun coming up in the east and the sun setting in the west…

    the current backlash against the Dems was predictable as well. They’ve been laid at the feet of the Republican Establishment’s feet like a big fat juicy goose on a silver platter and all they have to do is carve them up and all the Republican Establishment seems to want to do is figure out how to deep fry the table gusts (representing the base) and set them up on the table as side dishes!

  • smagar

    throwing my name and Ace?s into every diary to explain how you need to move left

    “move left?” Umm…no. Actually, I plan to throw your names out anytime I need to talk about the whackos on this site. From my standpoint, you and Ace are the King (Queen) Kooks on Redstate.

    Hey, if Buckley had to deal with the Birchers, I guess someone will have to deal with you.

    If that is the game plan so be it.

    In your mind, Jaded, I don’t doubt that you DO think it’s the game plan.

    thwup thwup thwup

    Those are the blades of my black helicopter, Jaded, coming for you…

  • smagar

    WE had diaries like these everyday leading up to the vote

    …then maybe you should listen to more opinions than those of the commenters on these boards.

    And, just maybe, you should think twice about putting much stock in the opinions of those diaries’writers again.

    The folks I read (e.g., Ed Morrissey at Hot Air) weren’t surprised it passed the House at all.

  • smagar
  • smagar

    If that’s his plan, he needs to get out and tell all of us exactly how we can live, in some way/shape/form, with Obamacare. He needs to justify why he’s not going to light the fuse.

  • Jack_Savage

    It didn’t pass by much. Hot Air may not have been surprised it passed, but I didn’t read where he predicted it.

    What we have now are 100 different electoral micro-environments trying to come together on a bill. As we have seen before in the vote leading to the Iraq war, Senators have no problem voting for something, then running like hell if it gets a little unpopular. The problem here is that the health care rationing bill is unpopular prior to the vote, so Senators may not have a lot of room to run this time.

  • redneck_hippie

    that we are scared to death for, know exactly what Jaded is talking about. Sheesh!

  • Vegas_Rick

    is a little over the top. Especially since the author of the diary listed is EE. Perhaps you’d feel more comfortable elsewhere.

  • nolan

    izone. Maybe next fall, probably the following spring. Spring is campaigning weather, after all.
    Stay tuned…
    out

  • janis

    comment in which you said that you don’t think the R’s in the Senate want this bill to pass, you need to go talk to John Cornyn then. He has apparently been quoted as saying that it would be a good thing if it passed as it will help the votes in 2010.

    Just another politician putting party power over the good of the country and the generations to come after. I’ll go find where I saw that and come back with the info. In the meantime, you are welcome to relocate elsewhere on the net if we are too provincial and ignorant for your tastes. You wouldn’t be missed by many as far as I can tell.

  • penguin2

    different critters. And ultimately the final bill still has to be voted out of the Senate, reconciled with the House and then the House has to vote again. So, maybe in all of this certainly lies reasonable, intelligent arguments that the bill will still fail. Considering that none of us are prophets, here or elsewhere, the outcome can go our way. Now, EE and the FP folks and really everyone else who writes here, are quite smart, and if you don’t like their take on things, okay, but then why do you stay? You seem so annoyed with us, but we are not going to change.

  • janis

    firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/12/11/2149827.aspx

    And I freely admit that my tech skills are lacking. The address will take you to the article which also includes Cornyn’s letter to the rest of the Republicans. It’s quite cheery about the prospects for 2010, and he seems to completely neglect the fact that allowing this monster to pass in the Senate will be a complete disaster for all of us out here in flyover country whose lives it will affect and the generations to come as well. But, hey, as long as it will get him some votes next year, it’s all good.

  • http://www.redstate.com/tnjim TNJim

    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/12/11/2149827.aspx

    If you had gotten the http:// in there the site would have made it clickable in your original post.

  • janis

    And Merry Christmas to another Volunteer. :-)

  • http://www.redstate.com/tnjim TNJim

    Jeez, indeed. You don’t see the dire consequences all this will bring us, and as Rednck hippie said our children and grandchildren? All this debt this Congress and President has already authorized is going to keep us in the hole for years to come. HCR, plus this 1.1trillion dollar spending bill just passed will make a huge hole in our fiscal stability even larger.

    I may not have used “reign of terror” but when you get down to the long term economic damage this debt is doing to our country and what it’s going to give them license to do, in their way of thinking, that’s exactly what it is, all political correctness aside.

  • penguin2

    Now I learned something new too with this link stuff. And here I thought it is all magic tied up in my little mouse. Wait, it still is.

    Merry Christmas to you too!

  • Scope

    Wasn’t there a recent poll that the Tea Party people polled higher than the Republicans and Dems. The Independents are leaving the Dems in droves, and, from what I read, not running to the Republicans. You are absolutely correct that they have the golden goose at their feet right now. The problem is that the less and less they “fight”, the less and less likely the R’s are to gain the number of seats they can, if they had the will and want. Let’s hope that Erick, and all of us, can light a fire under their butts, if there butts aren’t too numb from sitting on them.

  • redneck_hippie

    as is our sovereignty as a nation. Those are just 2 outcomes of turning us into a banana republic fiscally. We are already having to increase the rates on our long-term bonds because of this overreach. Best be preparing yourself for some rather nasty surprises if you expect things to improve any time soon.

  • redneck_hippie
  • smagar

    Seems like a general smack-down of Redstate diarists is a little over the top.

    If you’ll read my reply to Jaded again, you’ll see I was referring to those diarists who (supposedly) claimed that Obamacare could never pass the House.

    BTW, I’ve been here on Redstate twice as long as you.

  • smagar

    You seem so annoyed with us

    If memory serves, Redstate is a place for Republicans and conservatives to come and debate. If memory also serves, we are a big tent party.

    I also stay because I think Redstate can serve as a valuable mechanism for attracting new GOP voters in 2010.

    Unfortunately, the tone I’ve seen from a bunch of the newer commenters (I.e., those who came here after the 2004 elections) sounds less like the Founding Fathers and more like Quantril’s Raiders.

    That’s one of the big reasons I’m still here, and have no intention of leaving.

  • smagar

    When I think “Reign of Terror”…excuse me, “Reign of TERROR,” I think of pogroms and Mongol raids. Not out-of-control government spending.

    Can either you, or Redneck Hippie, point to anything I’ve said that makes me sound indifferent to the impact of out-of-control government spending? Let me remind you, I’m the one telling Sen McConnell to blow the bridges if he has to.

    Do you see a difference, TNJim, between inflation and a Mongol attack?

  • smagar

    The second one is a “reign of TERROR,’ the first one isn’t.

    You do see the difference, right? I’m not sure Jaded does.

  • Aaron Gardner

    The more you use terms like birchers, the more you come off as wanting to discontinue your membership here at RedState.

  • janis

    My, no ego problems with you, are there. There are many here who may not have signed up for accounts until after 2004, but who have been reading here since RedState was founded.

    Your seniority just means that you have been here a year or two longer, it doesn’t give you either intellectual or moral superiority. You are an unpleasant man who is convinced of his own infallibility.

  • smagar

    Here is the text of Sen Cornyn’s message, from “First Read.” I’ve bolded the “smoking gun.”

    Jon Cornyn, chairman of the NRSC, says things are looking up for the GOP.

    He has penned a memo to Republican senators and candidates, touting what he sees as an improved environment for Republican candidates in next year’s elections.

    “As the calendar turns to 2010, we find ourselves running in a markedly improved political environment from the difficult 2006 and 2008 election cycles,” Cornyn writes in part in the memo being sent out today. “Americans are alarmed at the overreach of the Democrat-controlled government, and its massive price tag that has driven our national debt to an all-time high. While Senate Democrats push forward with their costly health care legislation, they are rapidly losing the support of the American public.

    The Democrats? massive health care bill, coupled with their support for out-of-control government spending, are quickly developing into potent political issues for us, and we will work tirelessly to ensure that voters are fully informed of their Democrat Senators? and would-be Senators? support of a critical issue opposed by the majority of their constituents.”

    First off, how do you leap from what Sen Cornyn said, and discern that he actually wants the bill to pass? (I can’t wait to hear this.)

    Secondly, you said above that the Senator “has apparently been quoted as saying that it would be a good thing if it passed as it will help the votes in 2010.”

    Apparent how? Where? Where is this quote of which you speak?

  • smagar
  • Aaron Gardner
  • smagar

    You are an unpleasant man who is convinced of his own infallibility.

    I’m “convinced of my own infallability?” Oh, so you can read minds? You can tell what people are thinking?

    OK, janis…what am I thinking now?

    Cowboy up, janis: polticis is the contact sport of the mind. It’s not for the thin-skinned.

  • smagar
  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    This site is for activists. People who want to jab pointy sticks at each other can go to Usenet.

  • smagar

    I said that, just as Buckley fought the Birchers, I was ready to duke it out with folks that I saw as extremists. IMO the debate on this site has gotten extreme and undignified.

    If anyone can show me someplace where I directly called someone a Bircher, please do so. However, people shouldn’t leap to conclusions they want to reach, unless the evidence (or the words people actually said) supports it.

  • smagar

    I don’t mind taking it—may I dish it out, too?

  • penguin2

    in response to what you write. In this case, you appeared to question the expertise and knowledge of FP posters, as well Erick E, who wrote this post. I would quibble with you on the order of this site’s focus, it is conservative/Republican vs the other way around.

    And you equating me with someone who would ambush, massacre and were considered lawless and evil, is ludicrous. I did not dish anything out to you, smagar, except reasoned thought and acknowledgment of your view, which is at odds with many here.

  • Aaron Gardner

    You know what you did, you were asked to stop, you said you would. Now leave it at that.

  • janis

    Here you go:

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/12/12/senate-gop-leader-were-running-on-health-care-in-2010-.html

    Keep reading on down to about the 3/4 mark and you’ll see where Cornyn’s attitude about the bill passing is much different than that of Michael Steele, who is portrayed as urging the GOP Senators to obstruct, delay and stop this bill from passing by any means necessary. Cornyn, on the other hand, views the passage of this bill as good for whipping up the votes for the GOP in 2010.

    You good with that, are you? ( I can’t wait to hear this.)

  • Scope

    and you seem to be doing alot of that lately. I am truley shocked that you have not been at least warned. You pick 2 Redstate members, tell them that you will single them out because they are two “wackos” and you are not even warned. Amazing. I’m sure it’s an oversight by the moderators, but, I’m sure you will not be able to do your dirty work for long. I personally wouln’t miss anything you have to say. You are mean.

  • penguin2

    I know who they were. It is obvious some analogy of them and the John Birch Society is being made.

  • nessa

    I didn’t mean to start a dust-up and then disappear. But y’all did pick it up quite nicely.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    If someone expects you to take it, hit the contact page.

  • Scope

    Is no one minding the shop? The cash registers are openguys.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Vent your disrespect at the left-wing trolls, not our side.

  • Scope

    I’ve seen others with longer Redstate histories warned. You need to stop being the Sunday Redstate loser of the day.

  • Scope

    I’ve seen others with longer Redstate histories warned. You need to stop being the Sunday Redstate loser of the day.

  • gekster

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    “Terror’ may refer to:
    Fear, an emotional response to threats and danger

    Horror and terror, standard literary and psychological concepts, especially as applied to Gothic literature

    Terrorism, a policy or act intended to intimidate or cause terror, usually for the furtherance of ideological goals

    State-sponsored terrorism, terrorism sponsored by nation-states

    State terrorism, acts of terrorism conducted by governments

    Political repression, persecution of individuals or groups for political reasons, often a policy of some states towards their own citizens

    It seems to me to be a right chioce of the word.
    The lastne fits.

  • smagar

    although I think youre being unfair. To be sure, as a moderator—and God knows we need them in cyberspace—your word goes. This is your house, and you don’t have to be fair.

    If folks want to dish it out on these boards, they should be able to take it.

    I will follow your instructions…but do you want me to respond to the other folks who are chiming in?

    Standing by…

  • Achance

    like Jaded and Ace? I’m told elsewhere that everybody who doesn’t agree with Jaded is a liberal. Do you agree with that, Neil? I’d like to hear from anyone of this little cabal just what they’d like to do to actually defeat Democrats. All I hear from them is how much they want to defeat Republicans. Seems to me we’re kinda short of Republicans these days and don’t really have any to spare.

  • smagar

    Link, please

  • smagar
  • http://www.redstate.com/tnjim TNJim

    as a Mongol attack, yes, considering the pillaging and power grabbing that will be going on in it’s name. You look at what this bill will do to our economy and personal freedom and tell me it isn’t a “reign of TERROR” to quote Jaded. Only this time it’s the US government instead of Mongols and the weapons aren’t spears and battle axes but 2000 page bills and a complicite media that tries to say “It’s all good”. Like Redneck Hippie I’m also looking at the possibility of nasty surprises.

    Reigns of terror come in many forms, smagar, not just pogroms and Mongol attacks.

  • Aaron Gardner
  • smagar
  • Aaron Gardner

    Just wondering because that is what smagar was doing.

  • smagar
  • http://www.redstate.com/tnjim TNJim
  • smagar

    Please tell me what I can and can’t say the next time Jaded, Ace and their crew rise up.

  • smagar

    The citizens of Lawrence, Kansas were mostly white! Don’t you know your history?

  • gekster

    “Seems to me we?re kinda short of Republicans these days and don?t really have any to spare.”

    why the jump on Palin all of the time?
    not poking, just asking

  • Aaron Gardner

    And I don’t care what you have been called as long as it didn’t contain racial implications as your comments did.

  • smagar

    who’d raided into Confederate territory.

    The vast, vast majority of Quantrill’s victims in Lawrence were not African-American.

    I ask this in all seriousness—are you a moderator? If so, I recognize your responsibility, and my responsibility in complying with your directives, even if I think they’re unfair. Moderators have a duty to keep the peace—I get that. But, if you’re a commenter like me, then I’m not going to take instructions from you.

    I didn’t call anyone a Bircher or member of Quantrill’s Rangers—go back and read what I said.

    I said that the tone I’m seeing from a troublingly large number of commenters recently reminds me of the tone I’d expect to hear from raiders like Quantrill’s—mean, almost vicious and itching for trouble. I stand by that.

    I also referenced the Birchers in the context of Buckley fighting them, because he saw them as extremists who threatened the health of the GOP. Frankly, I see the tone and anger on this site as poisonous to Redstate.

    That is…assuming I still understand what Redstate, in its current form, really is about nowadays…

  • Aaron Gardner

    Referring to a conservative as some form of racist riding for the Confederacy is a common enough tactic that it does really matter that those whom the Quantril’s Raiders massacred were white. That in conjunction with the Bircher reference, who were tarred as racist for their lack of support for the Civil Rights bill, makes the connection obvious.

    Don’t you know your history?

  • smagar
  • smagar

    If you want me to talk about football, I will:

    One of these days, Army WILL beat Navy again!!!

  • Aaron Gardner

    If you were looking out for the health of the site you wouldn’t care whether I was a moderator or not, only whether what I was saying was good advice. Just to clue you in, it is. And it would behoove you to take it into consideration. I hope you do. If you choose not to, so be it, your choice and all.

  • Aaron Gardner

    I have earned the trust of Erick and the Directors and they have promoted me to be a FP contributor. With that comes a responsibility to keep an eye on the site and try to squash trouble before it gets too far. I thought we had achieved that when you said “wilco”, but apparently you just couldn’t let it go.

    If you really need to read what I have written to you under the comment of a moderator I am sure that can be arranged…is that what you would like?

  • Achance

    Today Jaded concluded that anyone who doesn’t agree with her is a liberal and a pu$$y. I assure you that given the company I’ve kept for most of my working life, I ask no quarter from anyone in the insult department.

    You have a little cabal of people who as far as I can tell have never run for or held an office, never been appointed to anything, and never done any campaign work above the stamp-licking lever who have appointed themselves the judge of everyone who holds office in the Country and the arbiters of opinion on this site.

    Now, I’m more than happy to duke it out with them; I love gunfights where I’m the only one with a gun, but the site rules seem to disarm anyone who replies to some people – or so it seems.

  • redneck_hippie

    I would just add that hyperinflation is not the end of the story. What happens when there is hyperinflation to the point where a nation can no longer afford to defend itself. Where is the superpower who will be the arsenal of democracy then? Sorry I missed the discussion.

  • SteveLA

    Art,

    It’s the Animal Farm Standard. All Animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. Especially if you espouse the right “true” conservatism mantra in at least a little bit in your screeds.

  • Achance

    and unless she shows me something I never saw here, I’d like it to stay that way.

  • Aaron Gardner

    I am not going to question what Jaded does, I know Jaded a bit outside of RedState and I think she is doing everything she can at the level she is to influence this Party and Nation for the better. Ace has listed his activities within the party enough times that I am not going to call him a liar. And penguin has been active here at RedState and locally in VA. I don’t know what all janis does, but I am sure it is whatever she can muster. I don’t think any of them deserve to be called Birchers or Confederate Bushwackers, especially from a guy who will be claiming Reagan’s 11th throughout the primary instead of mounting a logical fact driven defense of his ideas, not you, smagar.

  • Achance

    “called” those things. Comparisons of behaviour are not name calling. There are some here with which rational, fact based argument is simply not possible; you just get a tour of whatever is living in their heads.

  • smagar

    Referring to a conservative as some form of racist riding for the Confederacy is a common enough tactic that it does really matter that those whom the Quantril?s Raiders massacred were white.

    ??????? Care to take another crack at that sentence?

    The Birchers were racist? News to me. Even more reason for Buckley to oppose them. Even if they weren’t racist, they were wacky enough that it was good that WFB fought them.

    I take it that you’re not a moderator, then? If you are, please say so. Otherwise, I’ll continue addressing you as I would any other commenter with whom I’m disagreeing.

  • gekster
  • Aaron Gardner

    And it is unfortunate.

  • Aaron Gardner
  • smagar

    the site rules seem to disarm anyone who replies to some people

    I completely agree.

  • Jack_Savage

    I think all roads lead back to Sarah Palin and John McCain.

    I understand why you are a sworn enemy of Palin, but that is inside baseball to a point that few of us understand – at least in the political sense. That is your business, and I can completely understand holding a grudge to the death.

    However, others who I would put in the social moderate camp also seem to have a big problem with Palin, and therein is the main problem. “Palin Bot”, “SWMNBN” (which equates people who support or admire Palin to Ron Paul supporters) and other slurs don’t do anyone any good. I still can’t believe that people who call themselves Republicans stand shoulder to shoulder with Keith Olbermann and other scum on the subject of Sarah Palin.

    Of course, when I look in the mirror, I realize I was not very charitable to John McCain, who is also a Republican. I believe he has done much to earn my disdain, but I would also be willing to bet that the negative drumbeat regarding him pisses people off.

    Bottom line is that is has all gotten very personal, and it begins and ends with the highly personal criticism of fellow Republicans – of which I have been a part. Like you, I have no problem carrying it on, but I will be the first to admit it has made me say things I wish I hadn’t, and gotten me on the sh*t list of more than a few people, and made it so I can barely have a conversation on this site with any of them.

    Until that changes and some amends are made, nothing changes. Either way I am OK with it….just sayin’.

  • Vegas_Rick
  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Tell you what Art: When you can show me where Jaded and Ace are having people brutally murdered for disagreeing , then I will stop pointing and laughing at your ridiculous comment.

  • Aaron Gardner

    I found what you said particularly offensive and uncalled for, especially the comment directed at penguin, who is a very mild mannered commenter. You are the one who decided it was more important to drag this out into a pissing match rather than a simple warning that things were getting too heated.

    If you have so little respect for the site that you only care if it is a moderator correcting you, then that is a very said state for you to be in. You could just put all this behind you and quit using rhetoric which is clearly an attempt to increase the hostility in the debate rather than decrease it. But again, I am not a moderator so that would be your choice.

  • Jack_Savage

    I seem to remember the term “whackos” being bandied about. Of course, I always thought it was “wackos”, but whatever….

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    If you don’t like it, you know where the door is.

    Aaron isn’t a moderator but he’s an FP contributor and I have his back.

  • redneck_hippie

    I could swear smagar was belittling jaded a little while ago for using an analogy. That’s making trouble for the sake of making trouble.

  • smagar
  • smagar

    Neil’s given the cease-and-desist sign and I’m obeying.

    Thanks for stepping in when I needed some backup; until next time…

  • 6eorge Jetson

    but I don’t think this is what he had in mind ;)

  • Achance

    when you call one of them out for the things they’ve said to and about those who oppose them, I might take your laughing and pointing a little better. The fact that you don’t really want to primary every Republican officeholder in America really shouldn’t make one a liberal or a pussy, dontcha think?

    The general run of comment from this lot has been somthing along the lines of “let’s get them all.” I have yet to hear one idea of policy or program from any of these sel=annointed ideological purists. Hell, I might agree with them if I actually had any idea of what they stood for other than defeating every Republican officeholder in the Country.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I call out Ace all the time.

    Jaded I’ll try to reel back.

    Ditto Becker.

    Ditto you.

    I don’t play favorites among the regulars. I’m genuinely happy when you guys just get along. I don’t want to have to go Rodney King on anyone.

    You have my email address. Please, Please give me the opportunity to give them similar guff when they get carried away against you.

    I’d rather everyone get along, but I’ll settle for everyone united in hating me for being a jerky moderator.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • clowngirl
  • smagar
  • smagar

    I’ve read the Note, and its author says that Senator Cornyn feels that, if the bill passes, it will be politically bad for the Democrats.

    Sen. Cornyn is now making clear that he believes the Democratic health care reform legislation, should it become law, will help his party make gains in the 2010 midterm elections.

    I agree with him. I think that the voters will freak out in 2010 if that happens.

    But that’s not proof that Cornyn WANTS the bill to pass.

    Do you have any other evidence that Cornyn, or some other GOP leader, reportedly said they want the bill to pass, for whatever reason? Or, are you drawing that interpretation yourself?

  • smagar
  • robert23

    These Leftist/statist have been dismantling our Constitution and Rights as a free people for a hundred years now. This HealthCare sham is to date their biggest power grab-far beyond Healthcare.

    As they have come this close I do not see the Leftist/statist giving up power to anything so trite as an election in 2010.

  • proudmarinemom

    Remember what Stalin said: “Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.” They don’t care what the polls show, they don’t care that they would lose seats in a fair election because they don’t intend to allow a fair election to take place.

    I’ll be there tomorrow at 1:30, along with Laura Ingraham and others, but I do not expect them to listen. I’m going so that I can tell my grandchildren that, back in the olden days, when Communism was just taking hold in America, I really, really tried to stop it.

  • sammyc

    Tell us what to do to change the fact that the Republican Senators are not listening to the people. I call, write and email, all to no avail. I get pat letters back that prove they don’t even read what I write. We have had the tea parties, Town Hall meetings, and these with little or with no results as far as the Senators responses go. I am willing to do things, if you tell me what I need to do. I am one person, with limited capabilities as I am handicapped, but will work hard for the cause. We are in need a strong leader, one who can pull the party together and we need to stop the in-fighing. From what I can observe that is why we get nothing done. we are finger pointing and spinning our wheels. There is NO way this bill should have gotten to this point. And if it is signed we will never get rid of it.

  • Ned Reck

    Notwithstanding the differing responses to the GOP’s heretofore tepid approach to this egregious legislation …

    This topic header has got to be one of the most motivationally inspiring pieces that I have read in some time. I have emailed Eric’s patriotic and impassioned call to “Fight” to everybody that I know.

    Ned Reck