CPAC Straw Poll Winner: Ron Paul - CPAC Winners Rarely Get GOP Nomination

Mary Beth

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/C-SPAN.aspx

http://seekingliberty.wordpress.com fmaidment

…that “Big Government” conservatism is DEAD.

But haven’t we always known that straw polls are worthless?

Doc Holliday

but the headline will go out. Maybe those CPAC attendees should have thought about that and voted?

Doc Holliday

he isn’t personally right, it is just that small government and liberty are right. But still, this a problem with pure ideology taken to extremes, you go that far and you are not qualified to be the president.

Also, we really don’t have a clear leader at this point. Show me a charismatic, highly skilled small-government/strong-America candidate. I don’t think it is Palin and I don’t think it is Romney. Sure we have a long way to go, but at some point we do need a leader on the presidential level.

Doc Holliday

at this early moment!

Viet71

is that he’s a man of principle. I suspect that’s why the CPAC folks voted for him.

I think he’s out to lunch on certain issues, but I’d take him any day of the week over the current President.

Doc Holliday

it is a shame we don’t have a libertarian-conservative candidate who doesn’t have a screw loose.

ilgop24

He is exactly what this country needs to order right now.

Viet71

there is no perfect candidate.

I’ll settle for one who is principled, honest, and dedicated to the Constitution.

Doc Holliday

who is dedicated to America. We can no more retreat from the world and forfeit American Power, than we can give up the War on Terror. If we followed Paul’s idea to pretend we are say, Latvia, the world would be much more dangerous and our Constitution would only be paper.

jeffreywturner

Now that the term “retarded” has been added to the official list of words we are not allowed to say (thanks to Sarah), are we no longer allowed to refer to Ron Paul’s disciples as “Paul-tards”, or is that still OK?

If we can call them that anymore, does anyone care to suggest a new name?

I am thinking maybe “Paulunatics” or something along those lines.

Viet71

I live in a solidly Democratic district in Connecticut (CT-05).

Among the longtime, working class families here, there is a passion for Ron Paul.

Mary Beth

I’d like to see him in charge of something in the next administration.

VP perhaps? Defense?

It would have to be worthy of his ‘Stache-ness.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Viet71

But I say, let the Constitution be this country’s rule book.

SIConservative

You’re jumping the gun to dismiss the result out of hand. It’s not like this was an internet poll that could be fixed with a couple of clicks. At the very least, it’s an organizational coup. I seriously doubt that liberals showed up in sufficient numbers at CPAC to determine the results. To be sure, I’m not suggesting that this is at all indicative of the Party at large, or that all of those votes were necessarily in favor of Rep. Paul himself rather than just a rejection of big government “conservatism”. What I will say, though, is that the Paul supporters who showed up at CPAC are probably the ones to work with, and shouldn’t be lumped in with those who spammed this site during the primaries.

Doc Holliday

I also realize why he is appealing. He reminds me a bit of Barry Goldwater late in life, he is still conservative, but age has made him a bit, well, off.

I think we need someone with libertarian-conservative ideals, but is a little more clear headed on the complexity of defending the greatest nation on earth.

The reality is our nation needs the world and the world needs us. It can be a pain, it does cost money, but our power is required, it is just a result of history. How can we pull out of the world? Who is going to defend shipping lanes? Who is going to work to keep nuclear arms under some type of control? When the crap hits the fan the world calls on us, and we can’t say no because we will suffer with them.

Viet71

n/t

Beasley Beesmeal

retarded has always been frowned upon around here…

and for you to blame it on Sarah is not only wrong but dare I say….Retarded

C.S. McCoy

I’d be surprised if Ron Paul runs in 2012. I wouldn’t be surprised if instead he endorses Gary Johnson, former two-term Governor of New Mexico and a strong libertarian-leaning conservative.

Doc Holliday

American power is always being probed by the Chinese and Russians. If we create a power vacuum, they will gladly fill it. The days when we were protected by seas are long since past. I wish the world was not complicated and we could retreat, but we can’t.

People don’t seem to realize that if a nuke goes off in India or Israel, or Taiwan gets invaded, or missiles rain on Seoul, Americans will lose 1/4 of their savings in a day. This is the world we are in, we must have a strong international presence and deterrent.

Let me be clear, I don’t want to be the world’s policemen, and I don’t want the military used to nation build. I don’t think we have fought a SINGLE war right since WW2. I think are foreign policy sucks, so that is that.

But isolationism, the philosophy of Paul and Buchanan is just a parlor trick, it is not realistic and it is not reality.

Lords86

Frankly, this vote is very disappointing to me. I liken a Paul candidacy to the the trufer/birfer problem. Bottom line, Ron Paul will never be elected President and by voting him as the CPAC straw poll winner, conservatives have done themselves no favors. Ron Paul may be a likable enough guy in some circles, but he is simply not electable. The fact that he won a conservative straw poll doesn’t say a whole heck of a lot about our election options in 2012.

gumbyandpokey

Glad I didn’t bother to go.

Viet71

I vote for you as President. Seriously.

Doc Holliday

but first I would make you head of the Department of Education just to close it down.

Viet71

But I don’t think you are welcomed here.

Doc Holliday

he beclowned himself. A jerk is a jerk regardless of his views.

Viet71

Make me you chief of staff — Rahm.

I’ll do it.

kingsley

That level of enthusiasm for a candidate and his views has no place in the GOP. We should do everything we can to downplay what could be a powerful ally in the 2012 race.

We must do everything we can to alienate that crowd and ensure that anybody with a libertarian or independent viewpoint will be forced to turn to another party, so that we may keep the GOP pure.

graciegirl

who was talking at that time…would you mind telling me? Fred Thmpson?

Return to Revolution

(its actually a rational statement b/c my cat has a vicious foreign policy record)

Doc Holliday

m_quick

At 77, he would be even older than Reagan was when he was reelected.

I hope this is just a symbolic vote, with this CPAC having the largest youth turnout yet. I think for the upcoming generation, the focus is going to be on fiscal conservatism and small government. And yes, I think government so small that it stays out of social issues as well.

prachar

who is more dedicated to America and the Constitution than Ron Paul. Most of the other candidates are more or less dedicated to expanding their own version of a one-world government via US Government expansion (which is un-Constitutional). How is this significantly any different than the Left creating a one-world government through the UN?

bucfish

The US Constitution than the navy is Constitutional yet standing armies are not. We The People are the standing army which is why we should have guns and no gun limits. I think Gary Johnson is someone that the RP supporters should check out. He is electable(Although Carter called Reagan unelectable) And Governor Johnson actually reduced the size of government, something that is rare to do.

http://www.dcworksforus.com Kenny Solomon

I can bet it’s going to end up being shown as a stacked-deck straw poll giving R*n P**l that 31%.

Section9

Gave the rollout speech of his new campaign at CPAC and still lost to the Paultards.

I don’t care how Alex Knepper spins this as a “disaster” for Palin (who didn’t even show up). Mitt got owned by the Crazy Train Crowd at His Convention run by His Friends.

Doc Holliday

I am thinking Secretary of State.

Swamp_Yankee

That’s a new one.

Doc Holliday

it around like some idol or oracle.

The Constitution calls for a President to make the big decisions and protect the nation. Paul doesn’t seem to realize what that entails.

mikenad

The straw poll is a joke! Ron Paul is a joke and Romney the deck stacked in his favor and couldn’t win against Liberals infiltrating CPAC and choosing Paul. Ron Paul’s support is fake. It is used to undermine conservatives. Palin did not even show and outpolled Pawlenty and Pence. The straw polls are worthless thanks to liberal pranksters. Reminds me of the Fox text polls.

Brian_Roastbeef

What the heck, CPAC? Is this an internet poll now? Way to look stupid out there. Yeah, I want everybody reading this post to take a second now to visualize the Captain Picard facepalm picture.

Mitch Daniels the eventual 2012 nominee… I’m not certain about that, but I wouldn’t mind it at all. Right now, I’d still back Romney, I guess. Nevertheless if 2011 ends with Daniels looking like he has some real fight in him, I could very well jump on his bandwagon. He’d make a good candidate. Pair him with somebody from the south… Daniels/Jindal… that could work.

Any reason Thune didn’t make it on the ballot? I hear him considered as a 2012 dark horse more often than Daniels or even Pence.

Anyway, I don’t think it matters. This straw poll is only all the more pointless when you consider that there are two more to be had before the 2012 nomination is sewn up, and that it won’t matter even then.

There is no reason that we should know now before 2010 midterms who our 2012 candidate will be. We all know Romney and probably Huck are running, and we all know that the Ron Paul fans will do the same stuff that they did in 2008, but who cares now. We have a Democrat congress that is just begging to be swept, and that is what we need to focus on going forward. Looking at too much beyond that is losing focus in my opinion.

Brian_Roastbeef

Not Mitt, not Palin, Daniels or any of the others. I don’t see what Ron Paul really won from it either.

Seriously, is anybody going to remember this poll two weeks from now?

cimbri

Hmmm, maybe not all of the conservatives have fallen for the bankrupt our country for foreigners creed yet. Good going, RP.

Bill

nomination? Or is it Huckabee, because they were the next behind McCain? Just asking? The GOP can do better!

gumbyandpokey

If this is what “Conservatism” is turning into, I don’t know where on the political spectrum I fall.

Doc Holliday

I felt the same way when Bush, Frist et al where turning us into the party of big social government, we saw what happened there. I am glad we seem to be going back to the party of Reagan-Goldwater, the party if individual liberty.

Doc Holliday

his treatment helped our cause. He could have just expressed his views and left it at that.

JadedByPolitics

Religion to mock and denigrate another group of Americans then WE are definitely NOT on your political spectrum. Americans at every chance deny marriage to gays because WE don’t want that word to be used for them however WE don’t bad mouth them or treat them like parasites either. I am always amazed at those who spout Religion and then sit in judgment of someone else because I do believe that only ONE person can sit in judgment…..PERIOD!

If you are for SMALL GOVERNMENT then Conservatism is for you if you want to sit in judgment of other people and how they live their lives then I believe that is called liberalism.

gumbyandpokey

has anything to do with the “party of Reagan”. Unless you mean Ron Reagan Jr….

mbecker908

The only infection I’ve seen lately is you infecting Redstate.

JadedByPolitics

has a challenger in his district from the TEA Party Movement which is 10X more energized then the RP robots. I would like to see Paul go home and relax for the declining years of his life and leave the fixing of America to the Conservatives such a Marco Rubio!

togaman

I can’t help it. Puns are in my blood-my grandfather could make the whole family groan through an entire dinner.

JadedByPolitics

and let us hope for your sake that God doesn’t sit in judgment as harshly of you as you do to your fellow man. LOSER!

Scope

From some of your past comments, I surmised that you have Libertarian leanings. I think more do than not. The question is is where do you fall on the scale of Libertarinism.

I want to be surprised at your support of Paul, with his non-interventionist, isolationist positions. Maybe your past experience has pushed you in that direction. I don’t know. I see his positions on national security, foreign policy to be much closer to the Progressives, though I don’t see him (if God forbid he ever became president) apologizing to the world, or bowing to other world leaders. I would actually see him something of the sort of Kim Jong Ill, isolated from the world community.

There is one other thing that must bother anyone about Paul. While he has voted against every spending bill in Congress, he has inserted millions in earmarks wherever they are included in bills (everywhere), and then he votes no on the bill. He knows the bill will pass, with the ever spending Congress, but, he can say he voted against it. I never heard of him proposing any bills to cut earmarks. In fact, I’m not sure that he has ever proposed many bills in his long history in Congress at all, until his recent FED bill wanting to audit the FED.

And, I saved the best for last. He and his supporters want to crown him as the “father of the tea parties.” He now has something like 3 Tea Party candidates challenging him for his Congressional seat in Texas.

Doc Holliday

Scope

n/t

mbecker908

Ron Paul is a flaming idiot, an AmericaFirster, the same kind of person who stood by in the ’30′s when Hitler came to power and when Smoot-Hawley was passed.

prachar

I thought Paul has been fairly pragmatic. There are many unConstitutional mandates he would like to get rid of, but he recognizes many of them could not be abandoned immediately. Social Security is a good example. He has stated many times that the younger generation should be allowed to opt out, but that it wouldn’t be right to pull it away from those who have become dependent on it.

After reading countless articles and listening to hundreds of his speeches, I can say that Paul does not believe the Constitution sets out an ideal form of government, but he would prefer to follow IT than have our current unConstitutional government.

gumbyandpokey

Absolutely.

Doc Holliday

that is a bunch of bull! The Tea Parties we spawned by millions! If anyone can claim to have started it, it was this guy.

and I would like to give honorable mention to this guy

mbecker908

gumbyandpokey

The I’m most certainly not a “conservative”, I guess. I stand 100% opposed to moral relativism.

Viet71

Please count me in your court.

mbecker908

Why don’t you write a diary about how people who exhibit bad behavior aren’t conservatives and shouldn’t have a voice in conservative politics.

A list of bad behaviors would be a good place to start and a list of people to ban would also be good.

gumbyandpokey

And if you don’t think homosexuals sense the GOP might be coming into power and will try to further infiltrate the ranks and promote same sex marriage, you are incredibly naive.

JadedByPolitics

BTW everyone judges everyone, every day but it is NOT our jobs to decided who gets to attend events and who doesn’t when they are invited guests that is control not judgment and that is what those in power now ie: Democrats. So go on over to the dark side because it is apparent that is where you have belonged. I am sure you think you are high and mighty enough to judge other human behavior I can assure you that you are WRONG!

prachar

but he is a non-interventionist. Paul would be nothing like Kim Jong Il. I would liken him much more to Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. Paul would probably go around the world encouraging good business relations not wanting to get bogged down in their individual domestic affairs.

And what is wrong with Paul getting a piece of the wasteful spending for his own district? It’s not like it increases the total amount of spending. If my local county government proposed a bill to have a day where it was going to shovel $100 dollar bills off the top of the county courthouse, I would completely oppose it. However, if that bill passed, I would be first on the courthouse lawn trying to snag what money I could.

JadedByPolitics

I laugh at those who claim “Religion” to deny others their basic human rights. I may not like what they do but they are entitled to live their lives. WE are not the Taliban for goodness sakes.

tngal

Please come back. We miss you and need some sanity in the party? Paul’s a nut job.

JadedByPolitics

WE welcome them into the party because WE welcome any American who is for limited government. They were INVITED to CPAC and for them then to be mistreated by an ignorant hater was in bad taste. I question the man’s parental upbringing.

hayeksheroes

The Paul campaign and supporters actually did have the first modern day tea party in December 2007 during the campaign on the anniversary of the first Tea Party. Paul supporters were the ones who then organized the early local tea parties. People actually showed up. The idea caught on and here we are. You may not like RP or his supporters, but you need to at least give him some credit for the tea party movement. You can also give them credit for the failed blimp experiment which was going on at the same time.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2007/12/ron_pauls_tea_p.html

Scope

Ron Paul, and his supporters, are the opposite end of the radical spectrum. They are as radically far right as Obama and the Progressives are as radically far left. The country is still a “center right” country. The diary points out that the most of the Paul voters are students. Hey, when we were all students, didn’t we want the freedom to do anything and I mean anything we wanted. Weren’t the old folks stupid. It reminds of Obama, and Clinton, hitting as many colleges and universities as they could during the campaign. The young have very squishy minds, and, when you tell them they should be allowed to do anything they want, wouldn’t they gravitate to those that say “have at it?. It’s like the freakin’ hippie era has been born again, via Ron Paul.

bk

RP’s district once came close enough to Austin that we got ads during one campaign. They were all negative. To me, if you are standing on principles and you are the incumbent, you should be celebrating those principles.

Plus he attracts kooks like Alex Jones, but that’s another story I suppose.

That’s also what irritated me early on about the Rick Perry campaign against KBH, but since his early all-negative ads, both campaigns have had a balance of positive and negative ads.

jeffreywturner

I realize society as a whole has been moving away from the term “retarded” for a while now, its just that she is the first person of such a high profile to publicly call for its disuse.

I stopped using that term to describe actual special needs people a long time ago, but I still use it to kid someone who is not special needs. There are other words like that (a particular term for gay men for instance), and I am probably wrong for using all of them in jest.

jeffreywturner

But it sounds too much like “politics”.

That is why I stretched it out to “Paulunatics” so there is no doubt what we are getting at.

Doc Holliday

directly came out of Santelli’s call for a tea party in Chicago, that is historical fact. From that others wanted to do it earlier and across the country. The amazing thing about the present small government movement is how rarely Paul is mentioned.

prachar

you stole my thunder!

I went to a Tea Party rally on 15 April. I was very disappointed. There were way too many signs blaming Obama (three months into the Presidency) for our economic woes. Someone would give a rousing speech about our spend-happy government, and then would not have a single unkind word for the Bush administration while piling on Obama and the Democrats. All I could think was “Where were you protesters when Bush was spending us into oblivion?”

jeffreywturner

I kinda look at it like this:

There are so many choices for fiscal conservatives, and so many for cultural conservatives, but only one for libertarians, so they all coalesced around Ron Paul. Basically, head to head with just one of the others named, Paul would keep his 31% and whomever the other person is would get 69%.

It was the same way in the 2008 primaries when Ron Paul received more donations from military members than any other candidate. That didn’t mean that the majority of the troops were opposed to the Iraq War as he was, it just meant that all of the ones who were sent there money to him, while the majority, who felt differently, divided their donations among many candidates.

mbecker908

who happens to believe in free markets, small government, strong defense and privatization of “entitlements”?

I’d happily trade one of them for you any day of the week.

jeffreywturner

n/t

tngal

Never been a Romney fan and RP’s foreign policy and soft on crime stance made him a non-starter with me. So I guess I would have to vote for your cat given his record. And I’m a dog and bird person,

prachar

on fiscal issues, even if it’s unpopular. That’s what I like about him. He focuses on the thing that effects everything else: money. He’ll speak about social issues if asked, but he really excels at talking about budgets, taxes, and spending.

Doc Holliday

and your dog agrees with me lol.

Brian_Roastbeef

I don’t care either. Our nominee will be decided by his work for midterm candidates this year, and message in 2011 and 2012, not by how close they lost in 2008.

Of the expected candidates, I have a vague idea of who I like and who I probably wouldn’t support. Right now I’d support Romney because I believe he’d be best for the economy, but as I said, there is more important work to be done between now and then. The least important status in the world is presidential frontrunner as of February 2010. Ask Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, Paul Tsongas, Colin Powell, George H.W. Bush (1980)… Who cares. More important to discuss how to get Rossi to challenge Patty Murray or a strategy for beating Gillibrand or Feingold…

Doc Holliday

but in others I do not agree. See it is not about telling kids what they can and can not do. Morality is key to free society and Judeo-Christian ethics. The problem is when we pawn off our societal mores to some government bureaucrat.

I don’t need Joe Biden, Chuck Schumer, or Orrin Hatch telling me what I should drink, smoke, or shoot as long as I am not bothering anyone else. I would rather rely on a good upbringing, my church, and my conscience. This why religious fundamentalists left Europe, this is why they used to support small government, and it seems “knock on wood” that they are supporting it again.

prachar

if he or she were “Liberace-gay”. If he/she truly believed in free markets and constitutionally limited government, I would vote for him/her.

I personally think government should only recognize civil unions and leave marriages to religious institutions.

Brian_Roastbeef

Don’t know why this needs to be cleared up, but that’s how I’d vote. Run your cat.

I’d vote for any in the general election over Obama though.

thegadsden

That is right, Ron Paul wins! Get used to it. His middle name holds true.

Peace

Doc Holliday

but we are a big tent party so we can agree to disagree

prachar

I might get a more reasoned, thoughtful response comparing the dedication of other candidates versus Paul.

I would dare say that Paul has written more and spent more hours speaking publicly and in front of Congress about the Constitution, than all the other candidates COMBINED.

prachar

did he stray from his principles? I didn’t know that negative advertising was against his core philosophy. In fact, Paul is about the most pro-1st Amendment politician I know of.

Doc Holliday

is what we can’t handle. He needs to stop trying to be a rock star among the anti war left, a group that is dwindling since it is now Obama’s war. He is right on limited government and the welfare state.

http://conservativestateproject.blogspot.com/ SE-779

Ron Paul’s one of the few honest politicians in Washington that will tell it like it is. He still has a lot of work to do to win the nomination, but I think he’s capable of pulling it off. I don’t think he’s right on everything, but I think he’s the most capable to fix our economic system at this time. Just my view.

mbecker908

than even Obama.

Paul is nothing more than a failed CongressCritter. He’s been a member of the House for over 20 years and not only has never managed to remove so much as a nickel from a spending bill – and we won’t even discuss the fundamental hypocrisy of his earmarks – he hasn’t even managed to find one other Critter who would stand with him.

Drooling while speaking in public and writing drivel are not things that people should get credit for.

mbecker908

You want to promote Paul, go over to www.Iamtotallyclueless.com.

MNConservative

“special needs” either… by then there will be a new PC word.

MNConservative

who can stand before it?

Read Chesterton in New Improved Jersey

And just what would the problem be with a homosexual
who happens to believe in free markets, small government, strong defense and privatization of ?entitlements??

Wrong question.

Why does the general audience need to know the sexual orientation, proclivity, or, to use a an objectively derived social conservative term, deviation, of others who come out in support of free markets, small government, strong defense, and privatization of entitlements? Since when are identity politics, particularly sexual identity politics, considered normative in Conservatism. This is a valid question. At what behavioral or sexual identity group would you draw a line, and on what grounds?

tngal

The excitement you demonstrate for your candidate is seen and duly marked. Your candidate has several good qualities, among them a grasp of domestic issues, especially on the economic front. The same could be said of Forbes. But there are other serious issues which a Preisdent of these United States must contend with and that is where my path and his cross.

However, I do applaud you for standing beside an individual who offers at least some reasoning behind his rhetoric. Unlike a candidate who only spouts what he plans to offer like “hope” or “change” but gives no specifics on how he plans to do it and then lets progressives direct his course.

P.S. Could you please take down some of the RP signs still up in my town. There were too many to begin with given the town’s blue leanings. Before it was a joke, now its just boring.

prachar

you have no comment then about the hypocrisy of those who complain about leftwing overspending, but not rightwing overspending.

bs

My understanding is that over fifty percent of the CPAC attendees were under 30. The number of young kids running around here was astonishing. If anyone thinks the GOP is a party of old white guys, they should attend CPAC, and their minds will be changed.

For whatever reason, young people love Ron Paul. And we know that the Ronulans are very adept at voting in straw polls. This poll was restricted to CPAC attendees. So it’s not like one of those ballot-stuffed Internet polls. The young attendees simply voted in greater numbers than the rest of us old farts. And that skewed things heavily to Paul.

I attribute this fondness for Paul to a general lack of political savvy and wisdom. While the “youth vote” is enthusiastic, they have very little life experience on which to base their opinions. They have largely not had their pockets picked by the gubmint, and the only presidents they remember are Clinton, Bush and Obama, so they lack the experiences & memories of the Nixon, Carter and Reagan universe. Idealism is rampant in this population.

This straw poll indicates nothing other than that the audience at CPAC was tremendously skewed, age-wise. When the real elections roll around, we’ll see the same thing we saw in the 2008 primaries – Ron Paul will be an afterthought who wins a lot of online straw polls but not a single primary.

bs

or you would know that 908 has made numerous cases against Ron Paul in the past. He has extensively documented his objections to Paul. If you want to see it, go back and search Google for some of his previous writeups. It’s not worth revisiting now.

Just be secure in the knowledge that there is no love lost for Ron Paul in these parts.

Parenthetically, I’ll note that some of us considered crashing a happy hour organized by the Ronulans. It would have been pretty funny to have a bunch of Redstate-ers at a Paul event. Very funny.

warweaver

I sense your beef with Ron Paul has nothing to do with his inability to remove spending.

bk

is that whether you’re liberal or conservative or whatever, if you follow your principles AND YOU’RE THE INCUMBENT, then your advertising should be along the lines of “here’s what I stand for and here is the proof that I followed it in how I voted on X Y and Z.” If you don’t have any principles or have some but don’t vote according to them, then you have to hide from that record.

Maybe I’m being too picky.

warweaver

that Ron Paul thinks our problems in the Middle East are connected to our support for Israel, right?

Kinda like a “pay-no-attention-to-the-man-behind-the-curtain” thing then, right?

warweaver

So you’ve attacked this guy because on the basis of:

1. Someone you dont like that supports him; and

2. You didn’t like his campaign commercials.

Isn’t that being a bit superficial in your judgment of the guy?

If you are just taking your cues from the talking points, that’s ok. Talking points are drawn up for 95% of the people by the 5% with large brain pans. What I mean is, there is no shame being in the 95% category.

Anyway . . .

warweaver

So how will he balance the budget without tripling the healthcare payroll tax and slashing military expenditures?

prachar

So again I ask: How did Paul stray from his principles?

warweaver

a wickedly heavy strain of evangelicals – and that explains the republican opposition to RP. It is also why we haven’t won in Yankeeland for decades – and why we wont win up there until these people are brought to heel.

Attacking Ron Paul is a disgrace. He votes no on almost everything.

The only beef these people could possibly have with the man is his views about Israel.

My view? Israel can take care of itself and we don’t need to be looking over its shoulder all the time in order to ensure bringing about the rapture.

I’ll likely get banned for these comments – even though this is an ugly side of the right wing that is RESPONSIBLE for neo-conservatism – these people have three issues: taxes, abortion, Israel. It’s that simple.

Any yet, this is the wing of the party that has made the following fomerly conservative baselines four letter words:

1. Isolationism.
2. Protectionism.
3. Nationalism.
4. Mercantilism.

prachar

Daniels will do what he has done in Indiana. Make unpopular cuts across the board and explain to the public how we have to live within our means. I doubt he would raise taxes. And what would be so wrong about slashing our bloated military budget?

Vegas_Rick

discerningconservative

You think the problem with Republicans is “Teh Evil Jooooooooooos”.

shadowtax

There is something to admire about his idealism, but a President cannot be tilting at windmills.

On the occasion of his great straw victory I sing:

“Hail, Knight of the Woeful Countenance,
Knight of the Woeful Countenance
Fare to the foe,
They will quail at the sight
Of the Knight of the Woeful Countenance!
Oh valorous Knight,
Go and fight for the Right,
And battle all villains that be,
But oh, when you do,
What will happen to you
Thank God I won’t be there to see!”

Vegas_Rick

Sort of like roaches.

Vegas_Rick

warweaver

roger

prachar

in public office who can speak or write as well as Paul. He has an incredible amount of knowledge about economics and the Constitution readily available direct from his brain. He can actually answer tough questions in hostile settings. Many of the straw poll candidates can’t even answer softball questions by pseudo-journalists. Daniels and Romney are probably the only two who could keep up with him on fiscal matters.

As for earmarks, what is wrong with Congress directing where the money goes. At least it’s in the bill for everyone to see. So much more money just gets sent out with no oversight as to what it will be used for. It plays well to the public, but, earmarks or no earmarks, it would not change the spending habits of Congress.

warweaver

ethics have nothing whatsoever to do with a free society.

A free society comes from two things, the natural right to speak one’s mind and to use force to defend oneself if attacked for having done so.

Christian ethics militate against the latter. Is that why you’ve added in that whole ‘judeo’ part? You realize Jews consider Christ an abomination right?

Right, so just drop the judeo part, k? In fact, use the Old Testament to roll your smokes in.

Dave_in_Fla

They stuffed the ballot box, just like Romney’s folks did 3 years ago. Fortunately, Romney learned his lesson and tried bringing ideas instead of organization this time around.

bs

that the straw poll was sponsored by Campaign For Liberty, which is a Ronulan organization.

That would explain a lot.

But my point stands. The crowd at CPAC was way skewed towards the yoot. And there are a lot of young Ronbots.

Doc Holliday

I don’t know what got up your arse or what your game is, but don’t tell me what I should base my beliefs on jerk.

bs

We’re used to hacked and stuffed “ballot boxes” showing big Paul popularity, but when real, live elections take place, no one votes for him. Happened in 2008, happening again.

Sham.

bs

We haven’t had much trouble with Ronulans of late. Hopefully this will go away and they’ll hibernate again.

bk

Isn’t that how we got President Obama?

bk

Here are the ones he highlighted when running for re-election:

end of list

http://www.erickerickson.org Erick Erickson

The anti-Christian and anti-Semetic vibe, not to mention the insults to our community’s intelligence, was just too much.

Doc Holliday

I meant guns, not drugs The Doc is old school, tobacco and whiskey is as far as I will go.

http://www.the41stvote.org rcov092

it will NEVER happen. Besides, why would he want to give up living with L.Ron Hubbard on that yacht?

http://www.the41stvote.org rcov092

Sara Palin was right to skip it.

Doc Holliday

Erick explained how few attendees voted. I have no problem with youth outreach, you know, the drive by’s like to say how the youth all love Obama.

If anything the RP vote was a protest vote, we don’t have our leader yet. If someone asked me to choose from the present list, I would have said none of the above.

We are a movement from the ground up, right now we are focusing on the Congress. A leader will not come out of an early straw poll, a leader will come out of leadership.

discerningconservative

The voting was conducted at a booth in the convention. It wasn’t advertised, and you pretty much had to know where to go. The RP group (Liberty something, or something Liberty???) had organized it’s ranks to get there and vote. People I know that went to CPAC had no idea how to vote in the straw poll. So, that put it in a little of perspective for me.

Cheryl

Doc Holliday

I figure we will get the facts in time, you just gave us some.

http://www.the41stvote.org rcov092

and now are tainted with the stain. My local REC has been battling the Ronulan local RLC for three years. These people are certifiably disturbed in their cult worship of a man no different than Obama, just from the opposite end of the spectrum.

If you lie down with zealots, do not be surprised when you find yourself tagged as such…especially if you just cash the check and impose no standards to verify credibility.

http://www.the41stvote.org rcov092

The y are comfortable with thug politics.

discerningconservative

but, a couple of people I know went. That is just what they are telling me.

http://www.the41stvote.org rcov092

n/t

http://www.the41stvote.org rcov092

They do not know the difference.

bs

I believe I saw a number around 2500. Total attendees estimated at about 10K.

bs

Someone posted the PPT of the data:

here

Under 18 + 18-25 = 56% of poll voters.

the_invisible_hand

I hope you are aware of this, Erick. The Republican Party picks the next person in line. John McCain was the runner-up in the previous contested primary and he ended up the nominee in 2008. George W. Bush was a successful governor and son of the previous Republican President. His father was VP for eight years. President Reagan had came within a whisker of defeating Ford in 76. Nixon had be VP of the previous Republican President and a longtime candidate. Goldwater was one of the few exceptions of a Republican candidate “jumping the line” so to speak.

Mitt Romney is holding all the cards this go around. He dropped out early and did all the campaigning for McCain. Romney has the econ chops McCain lacked and he has the flash and presentation to sell conservatism. While Huckabee campaigned beyond usefulness and alienates swaths of the party, Romney has been spending every day mending fences and creating new alliances just like Nixon leading up to 68.

MItt Romney is a lot like Nixon actually, and I don’t think that is a bad thing honestly. He is smart. Capable. And it is his turn. That usually works in our primaries.

Doc Holliday

I have to admit I like a lot of what I saw there. My only concern is the number that are happy with the current field, I guess there were a lot of Pauliacs there.

I seriously doubt he will run, let’s hope he explains to people he did not invent small government and that he helps the movement.

Doc Holliday

that is the one thing you have to do to be a sure winner. Romney might be a great executive, but we want someone not to run government, but to dismantle it.

Sure we need a great president, a true leader, but Romney just doesn’t seem to fit with the national mood, and certainly not the anti-Obama mood on the right. I am not saying he is out of it, I am saying he would be a fall back, not a step up.

SirGladiator

I agree you can make an argument that by virtue of his strong showing in 2008 (although thats relative, given that he was WAAAAY out in front early and still managed to lose rather badly) that Romney is in a strong position for 2012. You can also make a strong argument that by being the VP candidate in 08 that Governor Palin is in the strongest position for 2012. But ultimately all any of that gets you is a foot in the door, in order to win in 2012 you’re going to need the support of the People, especially the Tea Partiers, the Red Staters, the 9/12ers, the Campaign for Libertiers, you name it. We are the people who will decide who is the nominee, its not any politician’s turn, its OUR turn. We’re going to hold all the candidates feet to the fire, we’re going to hold them to a higher standard, and we’re going to have our voices heard. My favorite is Governor Palin, but whether its Palin, or Romney, or Paul, or anybody else you can think of (and I know the list is LOOONG) they’ve got to really earn it.

If you want to know why the Straw Poll went the way it did today, you don’t have to look at Mitt Romney, you don’t even have to look at Ron Paul, you just have to look at Obama himself. Everybody knows that the young people in America love two men above everybody else, Obama and Paul. In 2008 they mostly went with Obama, maybe because they agreed with him more, or maybe just because he had a better chance of winning. But now they’re turned off to Obama, as America in general has become. So where else would they go but to their other favorite? That is why Ron Paul won today’s straw poll, it isn’t because suddenly Paul is campaigning way more effectively, or Romney’s organization got weaker, or anything like that, its simply because a large number of people who used to like Paul but wouldn’t vote for him because they liked somebody else (Obama) better, now regard Paul as their favorite, and now they want to go out and vote for him, which is what they did today. This was the largest vote in the history of CPAC, young people are the reason. Its excellent news not just for Paul but for all Republicans, and not just for 2012 but more immediately, for 2010 also.

This doesn’t have to be a bad thing for Mitt Romney by the way. If I recall correctly, in 2008 the Young Republican voters tended to favor Paul and Romney over everybody else. Romney therefore has a lot to gain from an increase in young voters also if he plays his cards right. Of course Govenror Palin is also popular among younger voters, espeically young women. Its a great time to be a Republican, we’re the party of the People, we’re the party of Young People, and as long as we continue to stand for what is right and stick to our Conservative Principles, the Young voters we saw at CPAC today could be part of our winning Coalition for literally Decades to come.

http://phxg.wordpress.com/ phxg

and I am 100% in the camp that RP needs to retire to his home planet.

jwebb

I’m stranded here in TX CD14 without effective representation in Congress. Would all you interstate Ronulans please come down and get your presidential candidate and take him home? Please! I know it is selfish, but I would just like a Congressman who pays attention to his constituents for a change. Please, come get him.
Here in CD-14 there are three men running against Paul. They are Tim Graney, Gerald Wall and John Gay. Yesterday I was able to see all four of them debate over in Katy at an event sponsored by the Katy Tea Party organization. The auditorium had about 600 attendees and was stacked with a loud, obnoxious Ronulan crowd. Apparently, they thought it was all grown-up like to yell things like “Liar” , “Neo-Con” and (randomly) “Audit the Fed” when any of the other contenders pointed out facts of how Ron Paul actually operates in Congress. They were a boorish group that demanded everyone listen to Paul, but chose to shout down his opposition.
A lot of you Ronulans follow Paul for the principled stand he takes on everything. One post above loved him because he votes no on everything. Well wouldn’t the country be so well governed if every Congressman voted no on everything?
Paul held no town hall meetings over the summer and instead had a BBQ for his out of state supporters. He is absent from his constituency which means we have squat for actual representation. So please, come get him.
Oh, and after yesterday’s performance, I am beginning to believe he will not survive the primary.
Now, excuse me, I have to go put up some more Graney signs.

Scope

is Ron Paul’s self-funded fan club. I have to say one thing about them, they are organized, and in constant touch with each other. They most likely sent out a blast before CPAC telling everyone to go and vote in the straw poll. They do seem to be obsessed with polls. Remember during the campaign when Paul won almost every on-line poll?

http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

…during this year’s CPAC. Which was nice: I had enough to do during it that I didn’t need having to deal with actual, honest-to-God organized RiNOs, too.

http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

Calibration time: being upset that that dweeb got booed off of the stage isn’t unacceptable; using terms like ‘infected’ to refer to gay people is. gumbyandpokey will now apologize for being rude in this regard and s/he will refrain from that sort of thing in the future.

Next post, please.

Marcus_Traianus

Liberals were looking for their punchline and hope for the future from CPAC. They just found it.

Alll over the liberal press and blogs two themes are running;
1- Ron Paul winning the straw poll (played with every ridiculous thing he ever said) shows conservatives are a bunch of extremists

2- Conservatives, “Paulites” and Tea Party folks are so fragmented they will never build a winning coalition

My opinion, they would have found something anyway. But this issue provided something crafted by our own hands without needed explication.

KathW

Glad to see him get some RS love.

Scope

Your description of the Paul supporters is not surprising, but, rather just another example of their bad behavior. We saw it over and over during the 2008 campaign.

The Paulcraps scream for freedom, and when it comes to 1st amendment free speech rights, they want to deny those that don’t support their savior, the same rights of free speech. They try to scream above the crowd. It’s all about “their” rights.

I recently read about a Libertarian running for some elective office in one of the southern states. He is promising the residents of the area that, if elected, he will abolish all zoning laws, because they are not constitutional. Here in my area, there has been an ongoing debate/challenge with the city council over just this issue. A sub-division was built right behind a commercially zoned area. In the commercial zone there are restaurants and a night club, among other things. Now the sub-division residents are fighting because the noise levels, as well as the traffic, coming from the commercial area are disturbing their peace, and infringing on their privacy. There is talk among the city council to force lower noise levels. Some are suggesting that the noise level should not exceed that of 2 people talking with one another, standing less that 5 feet from each other. It seems to me that that would kill those businesses, or the police will be arresting some on a nightly basis. The businesses were there before the sub-division. If you know that they were there before you purchased your property, you have no right to complain about noise. It’s like having a house built in a hole, and then suing the builder when your hole gets flooded. As I said, with some, it’s all about “me” and not using any common sense.

han_solo

>CPAC Straw Poll: Ron Paul Wins. CPAC Winner Rarely
>Get the Eventual GOP Nomination

Once again, the reason why Republicans are becoming a endangered species is staring them RIGHT IN THE FACE…and all I see are people putting their heads in the sand.

Keep ignoring the people who want Paul, who want libertarian style conservatism, and you do it at your own expense.

Most are just a hair away from walking away forever. 2012 will be the last chance to keep them around.

If you don’t want them fine….but good luck beating the dems who will have the country who are either employed by the govt or receiving government money on their side when 15% of us will never support the republicans again.

han_solo

>Oh, and after yesterday?s performance, I am beginning to believe he
>will not survive the primary.

Yes. Having the interest of younger voters and the next generation being excited about your candidate is a bad thing in your world….its much better to have an old establishment guy who knows how to ‘play ball’ and won’t rock the boat right?

This thinking is what is killing the republican party.

a_Rocket_Scientist

…I knew I should have went to the debate. Would have been great to see a few Neo-Cons, War Mongering, Big Government, Big Spending, “Pretend” Conservatives heckled. We’ve seen the likes of this Neo-Con crowd before in TX CD14. During the last election, Ron Paul held a rally in his home town, Lake Jackson. There was a huge turnout, including a Neo-Con running against Ron Paul for TX CD14. He had his own campaign rally right there in the same place, same time. But it was really weird, they wouldn’t let people from the TX CD14 into their rally? I talked to the guy at the door for 30 minutes trying to get in the door to see what this Neo-Con had to say.

lol, reminds me of the reception the Ron Paul supporters got here on RedState.Com, banned for no good reason by bunch of high brow, pompous, War Mongering, NeoCons. BTW, thanks for removing the ban so I can post again.

Katy Tea Party? Are you talking about the Katy that is right next to George Bush Park? Katy isn’t in TX CD14, it’s not even in Galveston County. Go back to Katy, and take your three NeoCon candidates with you. If you truly are standing in TX CD14, then you would know that you have the most effective Constitutional representation in the entire country.

han_solo

>They have largely not had their pockets picked by the gubmint

The WHY are they smart enough to support Paul who is the one LEAST likely to pick their pockets more, than a more establishment republican like Romney (mr MA healthcare), who is MORE likely to pick their pockets.

Seems like these young people are smarter than YOU are apparently to me.

http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

NT

http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

…and just drop the ‘Ron Paul is God’ attitude. The only reason I haven’t tossed you is that I’m kind of busy right now with uploading various Republican candidate interviews, which is by the way precisely the sort of boring scutwork that we’ll never, ever see Ronulans doing.

:Holding up hand: Shut up, big person talking. Ronulans are parasites on the GOP and conservatism: you produce nothing, you add nothing of value, and you refuse to do anything useful with your time. And then you get upset when we remove you.

In fact… no, there’s no reason at all to keep you around, after all. Ciao.

Brian Hibbert

He’s got the right idea that we are currently running FAR too loose with monetary policy and that it will lead to rampant inflation (soon in my opinion). But his solutions are unworkable at best and even more disastrous than the current problem at worst.

As a physician he should understand the concept of “first do no harm” when determining treatments. He’s forgotten that rule when it comes to money.

Scope

Are you home now?

Thank you so very much for all your hard work at CPAC. That goes for all of the rest of the Redstaters there this year as well. It’s great to see your video interviews of the conservative candidates. To see their facial expressions, manner of speech, and confidence in themselves is somewhat more important than just their words.

Great job, thanks.

gumbyandpokey

I don’t take orders so I’ll take the ban. Enjoy the homosexual lobby becoming more and more visible and vocal in the GOP and all that will entail.

Brian Hibbert

His plan to go back to a gold standard isn’t workable. In any way. And being on a gold standard does NOT solve the problems of boom and bust economies.

Simple exercise….
1. determine how much gold is in the world.
2. determine the size of the world economy.
3. Divide.

How much is an ounce of gold “worth”?

What about the utilitarian uses of the commodity of gold? How does making gold a monetary instrument effect the utilitarian uses?

What happens when, say Zambia discovers a new gold mine and floods the world market?

If you link gold to other metals like silver and copper in preset percentages, what happens when the ratio of supplies of those metals changes?

Whose’s going to replace the wiring and pipes in my house when copper becomes even more valuable than it was 2 years ago and thieves break in to steal the copper?

Vladimir

mbecker908

So, you’re an anarchist. You’ve got no clue about conservatism. You’ve also got no clue about the fundamental concept of private property or the First Amendment. Thankfully you won’t be around long enough for us to find out what else you have no clue about.

Actually, in the world of “bad behavior” that has no place in civil society you’re pretty close to the top of the list. You should look up Bill Ayres, you guys have a lot in common.

gumbyandpokey

I’ve read this site for years and know how things work. Moe likes to make a show of “banning”, asking for apologies, and that’s his right. I just refuse to grovel for something I don’t feel was wrong. If you guys want to bow down to the homosexual lobby now that the balance of power may switch, be my guest. There going to be pushing and pushing for gay marriage and the fact that CPAC would let a group whose agenda is just that sponsor the event is a very ominous sign.

I never really believed there would be some GOP civil war, but when you have die-hard social conservatives like myself on one side and the libertarian-style conservatives on the other, one group is going to be disenfranchised and their conscience very well might lead them to just stay home and not vote.

mbecker908

other than g&p? Frankly, when folks are engaging in any kind of identity politics they usually don’t line up really well with conservatism because they are typically looking for special treatment which generally is an anathema to conservatism. See Andrew Sullivan.

As far as “behavior” is concerned, I have two completely unique standards. One for holding public office, including being a spokesperson for the cause, and one for a private individual in the ballot box.

For an officeholder/spokesperson, as long as their conduct is legal and their principles are Conservative, I don’t care what they do. I might not invite them for dinner with my family, but I’d vote for them and support their efforts in the public arena. When their behavior crosses the line of legality, their off to the stone pit.

As far as a private individual in the voting booth is concerned, since they don’t impact the larger cause, I have no opinion.

This is – hopefully – obviously a very general statement. I could write a tome, I won’t. You’re welcome.

mbecker908

http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

NT.

Brian Hibbert

Please explain Dr. Paul’s earmarks.

Brian Hibbert

And would you care to explain it a bit?

Brian Hibbert

And can’t respond.

mbecker908

about this failed CongressCritter who is an embarrassment to anybody with a double digit IQ and a partial ability at rational thought before the ’08 primary. This has all been hashed out. It’s obvious, unless God intervenes and Paul joins Kennedy and Murtha, that we’re going to have to do it again in ’12. I’m sure there will be mass bannings of ignorant fools again.

To address specifics for both you and the poster just above you, my problem with RonPaul is several fold deep. One, he’s an under performing jerk. If he’s such a phenomenal writer and speaker where is his massive following and where are his accomplishments. He’s got – and will never have more than – a fringe following, kind of like Dennis Kuchinich. He is a total out-to-lunch pinhead on foreign policy and national security. He is more dangerous to the continuation of the nation in that regard than Obama. On fiscal matters, he is an utter ignorant fool. His ignorance on monetary policy, the gold standard and imex are legendary. He would be worse for the economy than Obama.

With respect to spending, I have two problems with Paul. First, he’s never cut a nickle. Second, he’s never even tried to build a coalition in Congress to really attack the problem. He writes mind numbing treatises and puts people to sleep with his speeches. He’s a 100% hypocrite. He’s got a platform but he doesn’t use it for anything but blowing his own horn. Something like John McCain or John Kerry. But at least the two of them work to build coalitions to do something, even if it is stuff that shouldn’t be done.

JadedByPolitics

they blame the joooooooos for everything that is wrong in the world. Ron Paul followers are racists & anti-semites which is why I never give them a moment to speak and they should all be run out of the Republican Party and sent to play in the D’s party because that kind of HATE does not play in this party!

newsflash

To the role of the Fed and the budgetary consequences of the government just being able to print money. That and fractional reserve banking. You might not agree with him, but you can’t deny he knows his stuff.

Oh, and this is funny: http://www.theonion.com/content/news/u_s_economy_grinds_to_halt_as

mbecker908

and RonPaul.

Libertarians are more than welcome in the Republican Party and there is a big cross section of them here at RS. Much of “L”ibertarianism fits well with conservatism. There is room for honest debate on the rest.

Nothing Ron Paul does is either Libertarian or Conservative. He is self-serving kook like any of a number who’ve come and gone and will again. The kiddies like him for the same reason they like(d) Obama. He’s different, real adults understand he’s an idiot and they get a chance to rebel, and, being kiddies, they’re still ignorant. Most will grow up, realize they were foolish jerks in their youth and move on and become real conservatives and maybe make a difference. The rest will rot and become bitter old fools like RonPaul and they will have never made a difference with their lives.

dmdmd56

Having read through this thread I think it’s safe to say that Ron Paul has not won this “Redstate Straw Poll.” That suggests to me that we conservatives do have a promising future sans Ron and Rand.
It’s my understanding from CPAC attendees that the Paulers stuffed the ballot box by having a disproportunate number show up to cast ballots.
Games people play…

dmdmd56

Having read through this thread I think it’s safe to say that Ron Paul has not won this “Redstate Straw Poll.” That suggests to me that we conservatives do have a promising future sans Ron and Rand.
It’s my understanding from CPAC attendees that the Paulers stuffed the ballot box by having a disproportunate number show up to cast ballots.
Games people play…

mbecker908

redneck_hippie

“The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 22% of the nation’s voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. That is the lowest level of strong approval yet recorded for this President. ”

“…-19…Approval Index has been lower only on one day during Barack Obama?s thirteen months in office (see trends). The previous low came on December 22 as the Senate was preparing to approve its version of the proposed health care legislation. The current lows come as the President is once again focusing attention on the health care legislation.”

Brian Hibbert

for the last several months. Many of them are believers in every conspiracy you can imagine. A lot of them believe in the “Illuminati” or other groups that control the world. Some think it’s the Rockefellers (which usually equates to jooos).

Yesterday, I got into a dispute with a young lady who thought Karl Rove* should be arrested for rigging elections. She actually thought Rove was suppressing the military vote! I explained to her that it would be insanity for Rove to suppress the vote of a group that would be expected to vote 75%+ on his side. Most of the people in the room agreed, but it didn’t sink in.

People who see conspiracies in everything tend to not accept any facts or argument that disputes their view of the world.

Brian Hibbert

He’s going to be the featured speaker at my county Lincoln Day Event this year and I was among a group who were trying to sell tickets….

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Go back to Daily Kos.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Good.

Scope

You are threatening those that don’t support Paul, if they don’t get on board and support your kook. You guys, with your “principles” are the ones that gave us Obama to begin with. If you don’t want Marxists in control of the WH and Congress, will you not vote again because you didn’t get your chosen candidate? That’s what makes you Pauldolts so annoying. You guys are short on Common Sense, but, long on threats.

scrapiron

Folks, this is just what the liberals love. Thay don’t have to defeat us, we can do that all by ourselves. Remember Bush 41 and the RP debacle? They will push RP and have a 3 way and we end up with BO stinking up the WH 4 more years. I hate watching conservatives eat themselves up in the name of purity.

I see this a protest vote……..give us someone that can and will do something.
Mitt Romney is a closet RINO, he was Governor of Massachusetts and what did he do for health care???? I sit and watch and listen to you all rip RP for a straw poll win. what would you say if it was Glenn beck or, Rush Limbaugh?
It would all be about how they can’t win, etc.

Divide and conquer is working well in the Republican party, I see no reason for the liberals to fear. All they have to do is feed the disunity within and they win.

They did it with 41 and they did it with McCain/Palin, they are watching and are ready to do it again while conservatives are distracted with who is and who isn’t a good candidate. They will select our candidate, just like they did with McCain.

We have a long way to go and a lot of learning to do. I am glad to see some progress with our wins in NJ, VA and MA but, the new Senator is “Opposed to use of government money for abortion, remember that.

To me all life is precious, health care should not be free, no one owes you a job or a living, you have the right to be poor, stupid and lazy but, you don’t have the right to my hard earned dollars.

I hope we can come together but after reading some of these posts i wonder if we ever will.

God Bless,

Scrapiron

rbdwiggins

Approximately 8% of CPAC attendees voted for HWSNBN in the presidential straw poll.

Approximately 17% of CPAC attendees spread their votes among the remaining hopefuls in the same poll.

What those numbers indicate is clear: 75% of CPAC attendees, probably the adults, recognized an exercise in futility.

Query: Does your last statement mean that 15% of HWSNBN’s supporters are threatening to sabotage the conservative movement?

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Go do your shilling for Ho Chi Minh and Usama Bin Laden, as Mister Doctor Representative Ronald McDonald Paul did at the debate, elsewhere.

Tbone

and gave us 8 years of Clinton. Of course, it is almost impossible to find a Perot voter now who thought they were smart then.

Thanks.

annas

If Ron Paul is the man for this party, then I will have to find another party! Electing him head and “person most likely” at the conservative action committee is the most toxic thing I have witnessed in a long time (makes us the laughing stock). I have always believed that the kooky right is just as bad as the kooky left! If you want to support a kook for president, go ahead. If you want to hand the presidency back to Obama for four more years, go ahead. I am looking for a good man or woman who represents my BASIC conservative beliefs and also those of most of the voters in this country. Swinging to the kooky right is self-defeating!

Marcus_Traianus

The man has zero accomplishments and uses mainstream views and appeals to supplement what is otherwise a very radical personal philosophy. That approach should give pause to any thinking person deciding to carry his water since it is a deceptive tactic, used to garner support for an agenda that is anything but democratic and is more likely populist political theater.

Do I think Paul believes what he explicates? Absolutely, every last piece of it including some views too radical to express. He is Obama on the other side of the aisle only a little longer in the tooth and not as good at personal marketing.. And he has a few very misguided, misinformed followers enthralled because they choose only to see what they want- a savior for our Republic that will save our country and reduce the size of government. News flash- do your homework and fact checking because Ron Paul is a false prophet seeking to enroll an army of Judases into the Republican Party.

mbecker908

Then think about why the fool has been in the Congress for twenty plus years and his only contribution to economics has been earmarks for the shrimp fishermen in his district.

Ron Paul isn’t capable of doing anything but running a political ponzi scheme, and he’s been very successful at that for twenty years.

redneck_hippie

mbecker908

The problem is his principles.

He’s an isolationist, and arguments to the contrary are baked from the same batter as arguments from the left that Obama’s not a Marxist.

He’s a complete ignoramus on matters of economics.

He’s a protectionist.

If you’d like to see the results of those things, read up on the aftermath of Smoot-Hawley.

jwebb

By far, the most disrespectful member of the audience was a guy I know well who is over 60. The bulk of the obnoxious that I could see also had hair grayer than mine. Interestingly, the majority of the crowd clapped for all four candidates when they made a good conservative point. That is, except for the hard core Ronulans who had to scream nonsensical things when anyone other than their patron saint was talking.
And, Mr. Solo, I assume you don’t live in CD14, so I really don’t care what you think. How can you possibly infer from the quote you pulled that I don’t have the interest of younger voters at heart? I guess you missed my speech to the County Executive Committee on just that topic.
P.s. In the time between my last post and this one, I placed Graney signs next to every Ronlulan sign I could find. What did you do?

jwebb

Mr. Solo, you are exemplifying exactly what is wrong with Ronulan Revulsion. For you guys whether at the individual, local, or national level the argument is 100% ‘my way or the highway’. For some reason the Republican party is supposed to drop everything and adopt every plank of the Revulsion, but you guys see no benefit in honest discussion.

Jim

Could you please cite where someone like Ron Paul and the free market economics he espouses would indicate support for the awful protectionist policies of the Smoot-Hawley tariff?

As I have said in the past, I just cannot understand the vague hatred you have for Paul. He is not perfect, but he brings something to the table.

Can I try an experiment? Can you say ONE good thing about the man? Can you at least acknowledge that he is a good on…lets say…the pro-life issue?

Jim

Mercantilism?? Are you serious?

So a “former conservative baseline” is crony-capitalism?

You sound like a confused individual.

mbecker908

You’ll get one when I write a diary about his obituary.

I’ve written tons of stuff on Paul. It’s in the archives. I’m not doing it again for at least two more years, and I’m willing to buy Neil and Moe and whole closet full of new blam-sticks so I don’t have to do it again.

His contribution to the pro-life movement isn’t any greater than his contribution to small government. Nothing but vapor.

prachar

on so many things all at once?

Paul is not an isolationist; he is a non-interventionist. He would do more than any other candidate to expand American influence in a positive way. Think of an American version of Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, embracing free markets and opening trade in more areas of the world.

He is the most well-read and well-written Congressman on the subject of economics. You may not agree with him, but he is no ignoramus.

And Paul is the opposite of a protectionist. Wasn’t Smoot-Hawley a Hoover-signed bill? Here’s what Paul has to say about Hoover (and FDR): “….the interventionist policies of Hoover and Roosevelt caused the Depression to worsen….” And didn’t Paul say this before the Joint Services Committee: “Actions to stifle the operations of sovereign wealth funds and corresponding retaliatory actions by foreign countries could have the same detrimental effects on the economy as the trade wars begun after passage of the Smoot-Hawley tariff.”

mbecker908

And you won’t be here long.

prachar

It seems he is intentionally spreading disinformation. To call Paul an isolationist and a protectionist is like calling Obama a free market protagonist.

prachar

Interesting how you can’t refute my statements, as you resort to name-calling.

Lycurgus

That’s not what the constitution role of chief executive actually is. The constitution calls for the chief executive to act with imperium within his sphere of constitutional powers. Congress has imperium in their sphere, the courts within theirs, and the States within their own reserved spheres.

Jim

mbecker908 is incapable is rationally discussing Ron Paul.

He seems like a good supporter of conservative principles, but has an irrational hatred of Ron Paul.

Pearls before swine I suppose.

Lycurgus

Of course returning to a gold standard is possible. The downside is that it would eliminate monetization of the debt.

Gold is worth whatever the market determines it to be worth.

If copper becomes more valuable for use as coinage than it is in the pipes of your home, you should pull it out, and allocate it to its most efficient and valuable use.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Shills for Communist Mass Murder typically are off in the head.

Xasteius

words to obtain the 0.5% that isn’t lunacy. Frankly it’s almost not worth it, IMHO.

Jim

…I am not saying Ron Paul would be a good president. I am not saying he is the best public speaker in the world. I am not saying that all of his ideas are good.

But he seems to get young people excited and largely expresses small government, pro-life principles. If the conservative movement is willing to dance with people like Mike Huckabee, Rudy Giuliani, Mitt Romney and others who have demonstrated very non-conservative positions, then why is Paul any different?

Does it not make sense to build allies where there is common ground. And despite your rather disturbing comment that indicates joy in the death of another human being, I am sure that you and the Ron Paul movement agree on some things.

All I am saying is you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Though if they keep it up…

Lycurgus

On whether you are more concerned with preserving American liberty, or in preserving and extending American “greatness”.

The only reason we are still having this conversation, one that Athens held prior to the Syracusean Expedition, is that we are still capable of borrowing enough money to cover the interest on our debt.

We do not need to “defend” the Germans, or the Japanese, or the Koreans, or the other countries in western Europe. By continually using our taxpayer money to defend them, we free up their resources to subsidize socialism in those countries, and enable resistance to free market reforms.

When the crap hits the fan, as you so eloquently state it, American must be able the call… if she continues defending everyone everywhere, she won’t be able to answer much longer when the ral call comes.

prachar

How is Ron Paul a shill for Communist Mass Murder?

Somehow I have been under the impression for the last decade and a half that Paul is a Free Market proponent.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

See his 2008 primary debates.

Do your own research.

janis

the Constitution as closely as it does, right? Because Ron Paul spoke publicly and in front of Congress about it? And I’m also impressed with all the legislation that he has sponsored and gotten passed to force the government to follow the Constitution.

What? He doesn’t have ANY legislation that he has sponsored and gotten passed?!! Yeah, that speaking about and writing about stuff is really effective if you’re a pundit or if you write for a newspaper, but if you’re a legislator, you have to LEGISLATE in order to be effective.

Lycurgus

Of course he is not electable, he’s far too old, and will not run in 2012, but that was not the reason a plurality of folks voted for him, it was because of his principles.

Ultimately, RP’s movement will make headway within the GOP because it is a movement not based on personalities, but on conviction.

Jim

…despite the constant mantra I read around here about how irrational the “Paultards” and “Ronulans” are, I only see the vicious name calling coming from the “mainstream” RedStaters.

I would really be interested to see how a rational discussion would go around here without all the shallow sniping.

mbecker908

He’s Obama in “progressive Republican” clothes.

I don’t like Romney for a whole variety of reasons I have no intention of discussing now because they’re not relevant to the real issues at hand.

Rudy, while he holds positions that are an anathema to SoCons, has a solid record of conservative governance. He was one of the two most conservative candidates in the ’08 primary, but he’s likely not running.

Ron Paul is a loon from the planet Ronulan. He’s never accomplished anything. And I don’t happen to consider getting a pack of kiddie excited to be big deal. He’s dealing with basically ignorant people who have no life experience. They really like Obama too.

There is a truck load of common ground with libertarians. There is no common ground with Ronulans. There number one priority should be very large doses of lithium. I have no interest in catching flies. I prefer to kill them. They breed and maggots are the result. Please feel free to draw an appropriate reference to Ron Paul’s supporters.

Lycurgus

No, he was booed because he made personal attacks on other conservative student leaders from the podium, and because he came out and said that the Republican Party should adopt the Mosaic Law in regards to homosexuality,

Lycurgus

Right.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

I’m surprised at you. Why are you feeding the trolls with actual arguments?

I propose we make a pact only to respond to Ronulans with funny pictures.

mbecker908

There will be no rational discussions of Ron Paul because, as Neil noted, he – and his acolytes – are not rational.

Now then, run off to your cult meeting and tell them how you really gave us what-for. Or whatever. And make sure you zip up before your mom catches you.

Lycurgus

though it’s not hard to see how young conservatives would reject someone who advocated and supported socialist medicine in Massachusetts.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

If you want to debate Ronulanism then get a dog. He’ll still win the debate, but it’ll be closer than if you had to debate people who understand the Constitution.

prachar

There was not one single instance where Paul was in favor of any kind of murder. In fact, he seemed to be the only one who was against initiation of force against anyone.

janis

We’ve been down this road way too many times during the primaries two years ago. For most of us, the comments we make pertaining to Paul are just standard truths.

For you, because you support and agree with the guy, they look like insults. Just depends on where you’re standing in this matter.

Lycurgus

Paul’s support is growing exponentially, especially among young conservatives.

Secondly, Paul’s supporters are the most conservative of the CPAC attendees, advocating complete and immediate withdrawal from the U.N., abrogation of unconstitutional and sovereignty infringing foreign treaties, more absolute protection of the 2nd Amendment, stronger advocation of the 10th Amendment, and reducing the federal government in size, scope, and intrusiveness to its constitutional limits.

mbecker908

You’ve appropriately shamed me. To the point where Franz’ tail is between his legs and he’s growling at me. I’m an idiot. Mea culpa.

Please accept my apology.

I will spend quality time this afternoon – after Mrs908′s errands of course – searching for appropriate pictures.

We need a name for this – it’s kind of a “Hinz Rule” redux.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

I wish all Ronulans would quote Austo-freaks in their sigs, so I could pre-emptively mock them.

Lycurgus

This is a pipe dream.

The Tea Party Movement is behind both Dr. Pauls.

mbecker908

… at least until we have an “official name” for it.

How to Make a Tinfoil Hat – More amazing video clips are a click away

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Maybe he won’t hurt you if we honor him.

janis

You can’t just suggest that kind of animal abuse and expect to get away with it. Next thing we know, you’ll be suggesting that Obama get some poor mutt to use as a photo op to make him look more like regular folks.

Oh, wait…..

Beasley Beesmeal

EPIC

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Picard

Lycurgus

swallow 10-12 large mushrooms!

RP is far too old to ever see the fruits of his movement.

mbecker908

SteveLA

I think Mrs908 would really enjoy a drive over to Camelback Ranch today. I hear that Casey Blake shaved off his beard, so there’s that to see….

Lycurgus

That’s a laugh, he just advocated the opposite of how he governed in Mass!!!

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

mbecker908

He’d also like to munch on their bones after you eventually get through with them.

Lycurgus

construction is virtually identical to those folks you constantly disparage in this thread.

mbecker908

I can’t post the “fruit of his movement” because it’s a family site.

Jim

…or just behind your keyboard?

I’m not going anywhere as long as long as RedState will have me. And believe me when I say I read it every day and enjoy it as a source of news and information.

Despite you combative rhetoric, I would love to sit down with you, have a beer, and discuss politics. I think you would find me a rational guy, and perhaps dissuade you of your prejudices about his “acolytes.”* I really don’t care if you like Ron Paul or the movement he represents. That is your prerogative and your right.

As I have said before, I just don’t understand your irrational, mean, uncompromising hatred of him and his supporters.

I suppose that a comment box on a blog is not the best way to advance substantive political discourse.

—–

*And I would not characterize myself as one of his “acolytes.” I am simply a libertarian-leaning conservative who wants limited, Constitutional government and maximum liberty for all. Ron Paul seems to be in that vein, so naturally I gravitate toward him.

janis

Do you have some polls to back up what you just said? If not, then it’s just your opinion or your wish. Ron Paul didn’t start the Tea Party, Rick Santelli did with his remark just a year ago. Paultards didn’t organize the first events, just plain old fed up with gov. types did that.

The Tea Party Movement encompasses Republicans, disaffected Dems, Independents and some Paultards, but it certainly is NOT about endorsing Ron Paul, no matter what you think.

Lycurgus

That’s great! Love it.

prachar

tap dancing around this issue? Please just answer the question.

Can you show me wear Ron Paul supported Communist Mass Murder?

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

I’m going to have to insist that you either provide extensive documentation to prove that, specifically citing where Clarence Thomas speaks or writes approvingly of Ron Paul’s Constitutional views. If you can’t, then you’re going to retract this statement and apologize to Justice Thomas.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

We must ban any animal euthanasia practice unless tested on PETA members, to ensure they are humane.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

He lives down the street from me.

Riverside squirrel

prachar

from the above exchanges, there is no discussion, just name-calling. I have asked for an answer to a simple question and all I get are irrelevant pictures and videos.

mbecker908

You wouldn’t have survived your first stupid post.

“Substantive” is not a term that can be used in the context of Ron Paul.

Lycurgus

What’re you smoking son, you need to lay off the mushrooms! Paul was throwing Tea Parties protesting the overweening nature and overall intrusiveness of the federal government in 2007.

For good or ill, the fact is that it was Paul’s backers who were shouting their heads off during the Bush years about intrusive federal interventions into the domestic affairs of the citizenry, and they took the lead in developing these Tea Parties. That’s why for instance guys like Rep. Barrett were booed when they attempted to coopt the movement in SC.

Jim

…but most of the Ron Paul “supporters” I see in this thread seem to be engaging in good-faith discussions , while the mainstream RedStaters are just name-calling.

I just think it is more productive to find common ground and build bridges.

Lycurgus

the carcass of the rent-seekers, or of the federal programs which have outlived their usefulness, or those which are unconstitutional, then indeed, your photo is indeed appropriate!!!

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

I bet he even agrees on a commodity (wildflower)-based currency.

mbecker908

are the perfect response for an irrelevant life like Ron Paul. And I have to thank TheBunny for loaning me the following:

janis

I appreciate your extremely dry sense of humor?

If we’re volunteering to be on the right side of the syringe, I’m all for being first in line to test the PETA membership.

prachar

You haven’t shown one shred of proof yet for your insinuations.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Get used to it.

janis

mbecker908

THERE

IS

NO

COMMON

GROUND

Don’t you get? Fool.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

And I may ban him if he doesn’t either prove it or back off. It’s entirely unfair for him to drag Thomas’s name in to it, when as a judge he can’t really defend himself politically.

mbecker908

prachar

this is a perfect example of what I mean.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Hint: I’m the cat. People who use this site to smear good men like Clarence Thomas are the rats.

mbecker908

janis

Back in 2007, you say? But somehow it didn’t take off until others stepped up and organized and produced the crowds who showed up.

That’s a perfect analogy for Ron Paul’s entire career. Ideas with no results.

Lycurgus

I studied constitutional law under Associate Justice Clarence Thomas in College, at Hillsdale College, in 2004.

I have discussed various constitutional constructions with him on several occasions, and stand behind my assertions 100%.

janis

Well, we all have to live through disappointments from time to time. Becker has a legendary dead white cat who has too much sense to support Ron Paul.

You keep asking for what you’re getting around here, you know.

Jim

Clearly we disagree.

End of story.

mbecker908

that one ain’t gonna fly.

Even a little.

prachar

do as I say, not as I do.” Now I understand.

mbecker908

“quality response”.

Lycurgus

I’m discussing constitutional constructions, that’s all.

After Justice Thomas publicly stated in a question and answer session in the fall of 2004 at Hillsdale College that his favorite economic authors were Ludwig von Mises and Frederic von Hayek, I asked him in class about his particular constitutional construction, and how it differed or agreed with Dr. Pauls. Now, that was before the Iraq War, and the controversy of the 2007 debates, so to be honest I can’t say that their constructions are entirely equivalent, but at the time, that is what was stated.

http://jakespeaks.wordpress.com/ Jake W

Also, the phrase “readily availiable direct from his brain” had me laughing for some reason.

Lycurgus

The President of Hillsdale College, and ask him what transpired.

prachar

“The kettle is black. Repeat. The kettle is black.”

Vegas_Rick

have always made alot of noise that no one else noticed. And they’ve always failed to get ANY results. The guy is a fruitcake. You can have the greatest ideas in the world, but if you have ZERO credibility, you have ZERO impact.

Crawl back under your rock. You’re not welcome here.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Hit the contact page.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

mbecker908

I’m not surprised.

Lycurgus

Justice Thomas’s construction that the states formed the federal union, that that all powers they did not enumerate in the constitution as being delegated to the federal government are retained by states? You want me to get into Morrison v. United States, or Lopez, or Printz, or various other cases?

kuksool

Ronulans run the local Tea Party Group in my area. Sure they complain about Big Gov’t sprending, but they also complain about corporations, the media, and government being run by Neo-Cons. I’d say their number issue above all else is legalizing drugs.

Lycurgus

I’m going to go back to talking about electing guys like Marco Rubio and Chuck DeVore now.

No need to spank me anymore. Got it.

prachar

Next thing you know, I’ll be getting in trouble for using the word “niggardly”.

prachar

masterfully.

mbecker908

You got the tattoo. Deal with it.

http://jakespeaks.wordpress.com/ Jake W

Because I have a general aversion to listening to idiots.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Double Facepalm

mbecker908

Trelaina

(and I’m being nice by not using one of the favored terms around here)

as far as RedState is concerned, you are late to the party. We already had our meet-and-greet with your team. We argued, debated and considered. We presented evidence (or lack thereof as the case may be).

Paul supporters responded with a list of 5-6 talking points, repeated over and over, or huge stream-of-conscience diaries no one dared try to read or comprehend. They brought the same rubber mallet to every RedState post and attempted to bash everyone over the head who didn’t worship the ground Ron Paul walked on.

Result: Those of us who were here began to cringe at the sight of the man’s name. We have shaking fits. The milk in our fridges goes sour. We have an unstoppable urge to post pictures of happy bunnies or you tube videos of unrelated rock tunes.

The directors took pity on our sanity and banned postings containing support of Ron Paul. It’s taken over a year for some of us to get back to normal, but the symptoms recur easily, as you have seen.

In other words, your guys dug the hole and plopped Ron Paul into it, not us.

Find a better way to promote your guy, or you’ll find the same *welcome* reception continuing into 2012. I for one have two children who need me, and I won’t take the same risks again.

kuksool

I watched Mitch Daniels from across statelines. I live in Illinois. I am impressed with Daniels. I hope he considers running in 2012. We need fresh faces for 2012. The 2008 retreads are 2nd tier.

renny

Because Ron Paul refused to endorse McCain and refused to release his supporters to elect Mac, he helped O win the election. For that reason alone–sometimes reality has to influence choices–I would not support Paul.

bk

Scope

Does anyone have any idea where Susan Rice, the Obama UN Rep has been. I’ve seen John Bolton on several Fox news segments, but, I haven’t even seen Susan Rice’s name in almost any article on the web. When the Republicans take over Washington again, I would love to see him in the new administration. He isn’t a pansy.

Scope

that are trying to make Ron Paul a household name, Fox made him the central theme today repeatedly. We know the Libs try to annoint our presidential candidates, and insure that the weakest rises to the top. Last I checked, the Campaign for Liberty, Ron Paul’s fan club, had something like 326,000 members across the country. If I am not mistaken, there are about 6 million in the population. That ain’t gonna get Ron Paul elected as the President any time soon.

Doc Holliday

He brought the Tea party idea to the mainstream. I am not trying to overstate his importance, the most important people were Obama and the populace.

But just because Paul had an event called a tea party does not mean he personally had anything to do with the Tea Parties that came about after TARP and the other Obamanations.

Heck, kids and old ladies have been holding tea parties for decades, are they trying to get credit like the Paulbots?

Read Chesterton in New Improved Jersey

but by “identity politics” I mean the recognition of groups based on ethnicity, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Is it too much to ask that if Iit’s bad form for me to stand up and quote St. Paul at a CPAC meeting, that my gay brother’s open stand for gay marriage might be just as “distasteful?” If the latter can be heard, but not the former, we have strayed from conservatism and into the morass of secularism and multiculturalism.

Let’s face it, Bible Christians, orthodox Roman Catholics, Orthodox Jews, and Muslims consider homosexuality to be a serious sin and a social problem in and of itself given its influence on the culture. How is “hate the sin, love the sinner” to win the day if the Christian Republican is expected to check his bible at the CPAC door in the name of politeness while his openly homosexual brother sitting in the next seat can lobby for gay marriage? To ignore the problem is to give the pokeyandgumby’s of the internet license to call us hypocrites and GOP hacks. It will be legitimately used to justify 3rd party agitation.

jwebb

*strong* rumor has it that the head Ronulan organizer here pulled the lever for the big zero when his personal messiah didn’t clear the bar. “My way or the Highway”

Richard Mullins

I was more concerned with getting rid Ciro D. Rodriguez and his foul racist ways. I voted so many times against him, I can’t count. Now, I’m a District that borders his(The 2nd Congressional district of Texas{yes, the one with the late Charlie Wilson}). Hearing that Mr Paul never seemed like his constituents, so I’m sure I know why they want to primary him. People get primarried because they do a bad job not because they did a good job.

cimbri

I congratulate Paul on a great victory in the straw poll. It drives the compassionate conservatives crazy every time ole Ron Paul wins a debate or some other poll. The guy represents the wing with common sense in the party. Stop digging, Paul says. That sums it up; it’s not complicated. Please, stop mortgaging our children’s futures to perfect imaginary democracies in far away lands.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Bunny

http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

Yes. Choice of term deliberate.

http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

-NT-

bs

I think we need to republish Leon’s Ronulan Ban Manifesto.

bs

Well said. Very well said.

http://www.politicaljules.com politicaljules

Their supporters are rabidly divisive and could care less when the wackos make a misstep or say stupid things. They are like sheeple with unbiased support no matter what. Medina flip flops on truther issues while her supporters first say they are truthers too and then they are silent when she denies it. Paul supporters are the same way.

Something very fishy going on here. These people have very little conservative characteristics. They act more like libs in sheeps clothing.

Sure I will get blasted, but something’s not right here.

Brian Hibbert

That’s kind of my point. It’s most efficient use is as wiring and water pipes. Copper is a VERY useful metal for utilitarian purposes. To change it into a monetary instrument would artificially inflate it’s value making it’s utilitarian use less practical.

I was actually referring to the thieves who are quite willing to pull copper wires out of light poles or cut pipes out of house (without turning off the water supply) in order to cash them in for scrap value. Scrap value is far less than the market value of the finished material and just a small fraction of the cost of replacing the wire and pipes in a home (not to mention the incidental damage done by filling a basement with water). It would also be far less than the artificial monetary value caused by inflating the price.

But you ignored the main points. There is a limited amount of gold for an economy that should be expanding. That’s a built in problem that will cause increased prices (I won’t call it inflation because technically inflation is an excessive increase in the money supply and by definition, this would be a shortage) and artificially decreased economic activity. People will by necessity be forced into a barter system.

Being on a gold standard did not prevent market fluctuations. It did not prevent the Great Depression (we were on a gold standard at the time). Also having multiple metals at the standard caused quite a few problems when new supplies of the metals were discovered. The Comstock silver load flooded the market with silver that was able to be exchanged for a fixed rate of gold which was suddenly far less available. This imbalance caused a huge economic problem.

I won’t even go into the economic problems caused by having to physically transport and protect the new monetary metals.

Earlier generations addressed these problems by printing paper money that in theory was exchangeable for gold or silver (I have a silver certificate dollar somewhere). The problem was there was far more paper money (by necessity of economic growth) than there was gold and silver to back it. This gave us a system that was effectively the same as we’re on now, but without having the utilitarian use of the metals used to “back” the money.

Basically, you would be trading one set of problems caused by the Federal Reserve System with another set of problems without really solving the problem that you are trying to address.

THAT’s why it’s unworkable. Your pronouncements of “nonsense” notwithstanding.

mbecker908

So it’s no more or less stable than “fiat money” whose value is determined by the market.

Thanks. As in thanks for confirming that Ron Paul is a complete nincompoop.

mbecker908

pay attention to this guy.

Brian Hibbert

I’ve ever corresponded with when it comes to economic issues. I wish I knew half what he does about money (rather than the small fraction I know).

scrapiron

Yeah, I’m beginning to become ill from see those initials. Ron Paul/Ross Perot, two nuts fallen from the same tree.

I’m no fan of McCain or Romney either. I want another Reagan type of leader.
Where the hell are they?

rocket_scientist

test, RedState dot com hasn’t changed.

Be respectful, or be banned. No Profanity

is still a meaningless statement here, Paultard, Paulcraps, … is OK here. Respond in kind, instantly banned. Thanks, wouldn’t want to disturb all the Ron Paul bashing in the Echochamber called RedState.

Richard Mullins

So you might want to take a look at this person. I’m sure that this person doesn’t have a real e-mail address.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

http://impudent.blognation.us/blog kyle8

Cities have every right to set zoning ordinances, and they are mostly good things that improve both property values and quality of life.

But to go in AFTER the fact and create a residential area then tell the commercial businesses who were there first to change is in effect changing the law after the fact. That is pure bull, and it is sad that any courts in the nation are even willing to hear a case brought by such a zoning ordinance.

aesthete

are manifold, but here are the main ones:

1) RP’s foreign policy views are reductionist, simplistic, and asinine. Among other things, the claim that US colonialism is the main cause of Islamic terror in the US simply doesn’t hold up: France and the UK, in particular, were much more involved in the Middle East than the US, which was at best a passive force in the region, for the most part. Also, the cooperativeness of other regions which, indeed, could claim to have been directly affected by US colonialism/expansionism (the Philippines, Canada, and Mexico, for instance) contradict the idea that our foreign policy is a main effect in Islamic terror (particularly when you consider that countries such as Switzerland and Holland have been targeted by Islamic terror). In a nuclear age, isolationism isn’t an option, and Ron Paul’s failure to understand this is just idiotic.

2) The Fed is a lender of last resort, and is useful in macroeconomic policy (certainly, moreso than the gold standard). If you can’t see why this is important, take a look at the various crises of the 19-20th centuries due to the gold standard/lack of fiat money, and the increase in statist policies and support that such crises engendered. I would rather not let those crises be used as roulette wheels for self-serving politicians and statists, and so far, there hasn’t been a better alternative than central banking of some sort (of which the Fed one of the least intrusive). Concerning Constitutional mandates, The First Bank of the United States was chartered in 1791, a mere four years after the Constitution was signed, and its direct predecessor, the Bank of North America, was chartered ten years before then. As a result, I don’t see how one can claim that central banking is anathema to the Constitution, even if one disagrees concerning its utility.

3) Even with these caveats, Paul has failed to accomplish a single thing for his agenda in Congress. Is that the mark of a leader fit for our highest executive office? I think not.

4) Finally (and getting to why his supporters were banned on RS), Paul’s online supporters are typically of the most puerile breed of commentators, have no awareness of history, logic, and common sense, and add little to the political discourse, despite their often-verbose postings, largely on diaries unrelated to Paul. (BTW I don’t include you among these.) Worse, his real-life supporters included significantly large numbers of racists, white supremacists, and skinheads, as well as 9/11 Truthers. Though I don’t hold candidates accountable for their supporters, it is incumbent on them to not give cover to racists and fringe voters. Whatever complaints you might have concerning Bob Barr (I have several), his unequivocal repudiation of Stormfront was a great way to show that he wouldn’t be a friend to those who would destroy America with their irrational hatred. It is the same with other candidates: recently, RS withdrew its support of JD because of statements made sympathetic to birther concerns.

We’ve had this discussion before, and we’re not buying the snake oil.

bantamwait

When all else fails, read the instructions!

RS

EDITOR OF REDSTATE

CPAC Straw Poll: Ron Paul Wins. CPAC Winner Rarely Get the Eventual GOP Nomination

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PICK YOUR STATE & GET LOCAL