« BACK  |  PRINT

RS

EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Coats Wins. Marlin Stutzman Becomes a Conservative Rock Star

As most all of us, including me, predicted, Dan Coats did win the Indiana primary tonight.

But it is worth noting a couple of things:

1. Coats was held to about 40% of the vote. 60% voted against him.

2. The man in second place who got pretty doggone close was Marlin Stutzman, the man everyone said would come in third.

3. Stutzman won a few major counties in Indiana.

This puts Coats in the general election. Congratulations to him. It makes Marlin Stutzman a conservative rockstar. He took on the establishment and nearly won.

If Dick Lugar retires, Stutzman will go in the front runner.

So, to recap, we’ve beaten the establishment in Pennsylvania and Florida and held them at 40% in Indiana. We may not have won tonight, but we showed strong.

On to Utah next week, then to Kentucky, and then to California, Nevada, and Colorado.

UPDATE: Check this out from John Cornyn: In a statement from the NRSC he says, “Unlike the Democrat party bosses who plan to hand-pick their nominee this month without an open primary election, Republicans in Indiana have participated in a spirited, open, and inclusive primary contest over the last several months.”

COMMENTS

  • http://ruminationsaspirations.blogspot.com jonbingham

    All energy should go to Buck – now.
    Need to win one! That’s the place to get it done.

  • ffc99

    As I write this, Stutzman has about 140k votes and is trailing by 50k votes. This does not constitute “nearly” winning. Will this performance propel him to conservative rock star status? Count me as very skeptical. He didn’t seem to capture the imagination of conservatives the way that Toomey and Rubio have (except here on Redstate). If Luger retires I suspect there are other Indiana Republican office holders who would beg to differ with your assessment that Marlin is the frontrunner.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    We were being told that Hostettler was the man and Stutzman was way behind.

    Heh.

  • http://www.erickerickson.org Erick Erickson

    n/t

  • ffc99

    Hostettler was never a serious candidate and anyone who said anything differently doesn’t know anything about Indiana politics.

  • earlgrey

    I did some calling for him. We should not discount that people may be more likely to pick a known candidate after the disastrous gamble the country took picking “the one”.

    I just hope the awesomeness of this candidate does not go to waste. I like the new blood and common sense conservative values.

  • jmell7

    contrary to all the “momentum’s on Marlins side” meme here at RedState. Appointed “Rock Star” status about as premature.

  • jeffreywturner

    Isn’t this another example of how bad of an idea third candidates (or third-party candidates) are in elections with no run-offs? I think Stutzman could have won head to head with Coats.

  • josh_kahn

    I think those who contributed to Stutzman should be proud. This was a lot closer than people like Michael Medved and John Batchelor predicted.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • RedBeard

    In order for him to win in the general election, he needs to pay attention to that message, and do the right things to rally conservatives to his side.

  • Brian_Roastbeef

    For now though, Coats is our man. Its like when Kirk won in Illinois. He may not be the candidate we most preferred, but he’ll be a far better help for us down the line than anybody the Dems put forth.

    Stutzman has done what many unknown politicians have done before him, come up short in his bid, but succeed in establishing his name and credentials in a way that could give him a stronger advantage in a couple of years. It could just be rationalizing, but Stutzman is young and his time will come. Even if Lugar doesn’t retire, maybe Mitch Daniels will need a good conservative successor in 2012 – particularly if Daniels looks to move to something bigger.

    Next we need to see what happens in Utah… Hopefully Lee will put up a strong showing and can knock Bennett out of the way without a primary fight.

  • eburke

    Marlin was at 8% just a few weeks ago, 18% over the weekend, and ended up at 30+%. Hostettler was assumed to be firmly ensconced in 2nd place and ended up 10 points behind Marlin.

    That sounds like momentum to me.

  • jmell7

    there was doubt as to who was going to be second and third. But then again I was actually talking about the winner. But anyone who thinks there was a doubt as to Coats winning this primary is just a propagandist.

  • ffc99

    Sorry. Now will you answer my question re what you’ve heard before?

  • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

    The Toomey, Rubio, Rand examples are cases where an early strong candidate and campaign had time to develop as the more conservative choice.

    A distinction.

    This was a different case, with multiple conservatives, the non-establishment ones together took 60% but split the vote. The establishment conservative coasts on name ID and a crowded field.

    The fact is also that Coats is a conservative. So conservatives didnt lose tonight, we just lost an opportunity to improve the situation.

    As others said – on to CO and other places where help is need to “Buck” the tide and put in stronger conservative candidates.

  • shadowtax

    Yes, 60% voted against Coats. 60% also voted for a former Senator and a former US Rep. Therefore, I cannot conclude that this was an anti-establishment moment.

    Stutzman is young. There is no doubt in my mind that this race has laid the groundwork for a future run for higher office in Indiana.

  • josh_kahn

    Larry Sabato Tweets, “Wow. Dan Coats is now below 40 in IN SEN R. Weak win. And Rep. Dan Burton? Try a shade under 30%, 2% more than the runner-up.”

  • zollistar

    I made calls for Marlin Stutzman mindful that he was unlikely to win the primary. That didn’t deter me.

    I dialed for votes for two reasons.

    1. Sending the political establishment the messsage that a conservative, including a come-from-behind conservative, can win; and

    2. Letting the eventual winner know that “conservative” is the flavor growing in popularity and TO VOTE ACCORDINGLY. We’re watching. Carefully.

    As far as I’m concerned, the get-out-the-vote effort succeeded.

  • cahnman

    Nothing against Jane Norton, but I can see her turning into a big spender and earmarker over time….

  • Oz

    So Erick, just to keep you honest, Redstate is backing Coats right?

    Conservative in the primary, Republican in the general?

    While we are fighting for control, Coat’s vote will most generally go with us (or at least with Mitch McConnell) …

    If Indiana gets close, we may need a money bomb for Coats.

    As for the rest, forget California, it’s not going to be our guy.

    Money is best spent in Colorado …

  • cahnman

    n/t

  • acat

    Note that the Dems haven’t decided who to run against Coats yet. It’s *probably* Ellsworth, but .. maybe a younger firebrand type against the old war horse would give a better chance of victory.

    Coats has been out of the Senate and lobbying for a while now – who knows what history the Dems can hang around his neck?

    This completely ignores the historic voting record and public statements that may come back to haunt him in the general.

    Yes, Coats ought to be able to win, but to say “Coats will cruise” is just plain overconfidence.

    Mew

  • acat

    … who were very pro-Hostettler. They cropped up in every pro-Stutzman diary, and .. strangely .. didn’t like to answer questions about what polls showed Hostettler in the lead or Stutzman behind.

    In short, it looks to this cat like Hostettler should have conceded and thrown his support to Stutzman last week. That would have turned it.

    Alas.

    Mew

  • proudgop

    Time to unify behind Coats now we can’t afford Ellsworth

  • ffc99

    Coats voting record is very conservative and will play well in Indiana, which is a fairly conservative state. As for his lobbying connections, yeah, the Democrats will hit him on that and it might have some impact, but Indiana is a Republican state and 2010 will be a Republican year. Unless Coats is caught in bed with a dead hooker or a live boy, he should win fairly comfortably.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    Fair and square.

  • acat

    Coats in the Primary. Love him or hate him, he’s better than whoever the Dems put up, hands down.

    Mew

  • Swamp_Yankee

    Any other year, I’d worry about Ellsworth. But we still cant even give them a window of hope. Even after the primary is over. It seems like some are still belitting Coats. He is a good man and a good conservative. And he is our candidate now. Any sniping needs to stop.

  • ffc99

    Have you seen any polling which showed that Hostettler voters would have supported Marlin in sufficient numbers to push him ahead of Coats had Hostettler dropped out? I haven’t.

  • acat

    Yes, I’d have preferred the other guy in the primary, but that’s yesterday.

    Today, Coats all the way.

    Mew

    (for those not familiar, FTW is “For The Win”, i.e. we will win with Coats)

  • David123
  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Sniping at the supporters of the other candidates is also the equivalent of helping the Democrats.

  • ffc99

    I didn’t much care who won in Indiana (as I don’t live there), and I certainly understand why folks may have supported a candidate other than Coats. What has really bothered me though is the number of times I have seen people write/suggest/imply that Coats is not a conservative. The man has a lifetime 90 rating from the ACU. While he was in the Senate he was generally regarded as one of the most conservative Senators. What more do people want?

  • acat

    Yes, 2010 should be a conservative wave, lifting the Republican boats to a win.

    However.

    It’s far from over. Obama still has billions of TARP funds to distribute – and it’s an old, old tradition in Chicago to have city employees working for the candidates. Machine politics at its’ worst.

    Yeah, the Dems aren’t likely to be quite that blatant, but you can expect to see quite a few abuses before the general.

    Let’s hope Coats is up to the challenge.

    Mew

  • crassus

    Dan Coats is not a bad person to have in the Senate- that’s just a reality. I liked Hostettler and Stutzman more, but Coats is far better than the likes of Crist, Specter, Grayson, Bennett, or Fiorina/ Campbell.

    I also agree that he will breeze in the general election. He leads Ellsworth by 20 points in the polls, and more importantly, according to Rasmussen, only 28% of people in Indiana think Obamacare is good for the country, and 55% support repal. A 2:1 ratio against- and Ellsworth voted for it. He’s going down, big time.

  • constitutionalconservative

    We showed we could hold a “name” politician with establishmet support ot n40% while grassroots candidates took 60%. Stutzman’s strong finish out of nowhere is also a boon for RS and DeMint. We just had an unfortunate vote split this time, but believe me, our message is getting heard.

    Now, it’s time to support Coats in the general, which I believe he will win.

  • http://gooberment.blogspot.com gooberment

    Lugar’s seat? How about Todd Young, who worked for Lugat and actually WON tonight against an “establishment” pick in Sodrel. Mike Pence? Mitch Daniels? Todd Rokita? All of these guys are light years ahead of Marlin right now.

    And to the other poster who suggested he’d be filling Mitch Daniels’ shoes — LOL!!!! Stutzman is a great guy but he is DECADES behind Mitch. He might get there (gov’s office) eventually, but the only way he’s following in Mitch’s footsteps is if three or four other people are governor of IN between now and then.

    I give credit to Marlin for running a solid campaign, but let’s not go overboard here….

  • gekster

    From Project Vote Smart::

    http://votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53291

    As usual,
    not an endorsement,
    make up your own mind.

  • http://gooberment.blogspot.com gooberment

    Huh? Coats (40) + Hostettler (20) = 60% for the “name politicians.”

    And when did experience become a bad thing? If we could resurrect Reagan would you anti-establishment guys support him or trash him for supporting the Brady Bill and support an unknown state senator instead because he tells you what you want to hear?

  • acat

    It’s only “probably Ellsworth” at this point.

    If I were playing strategery for the Dems, I’d have said to wait and see who the Repubs go with, then pick the best candidate. If that’s Ellsworth across the board, fine, but if it’s someone else …

    Mew

  • txgho1911

    We have 2 years to groom Marlin for Lugar’s position. Where else could we need him? Maybe toss the Marion Cnty head Tom John and place Marlin there to clean house and maybe lead the state party. Given some time and he may gain recognition from more hosiers for 2012.
    A Steele replacement?

  • gekster

    As have often been said here several times, we will support the Republican the people in the district elect.
    The locals pick em, we support them.

  • acat

    I misspoke. Should have said “may have”.

    The fact is, there were two “outsider” candidates, and the gap between Coats and Stutzman is dwarfed by the number of votes Hostettler got.

    Yeah, dropping out and throwing support to Stutzman may have suppressed turnout, it wouldn’t have changed any early-voter ballots, but .. if even 50% of the Hostettler voters went for Stutzman .. yeah, it would have worked.

    Besides, this is now history. Coats in the primary. Go Coats Go!

    Mew

  • http://gooberment.blogspot.com gooberment

    For those non-Hoosiers out there, that’s Indianapolis. The Indy GOP is getting a reputation that closely resembles that of Obama’s Chicago political machine. We desperately need help down there from a genuinely good person like Marlin. Tom John, Brizzi, et al have been an embarrassment.

    Mark Massa is a very good guy who’s running for Marion County prosecutor. He was Mitch’s general counsel and is a top-notch person/lawyer/candidate. I really hope he wins and does something to clean up the stink in Marion County.

  • ffc99

    about Marion County, I lived in the area for a while and enjoyed my time there. What kind of problems is the County GOP facing?

    On a related topic, I saw that you almost got rid of Dan Burton tonight. He’s someone who really needs to be returned to private life…

  • IJB
  • antisocial

    I don’t get the reason you posed that question. I have been here a year and a half, and I have not seen one deviation from the strategy of backing conservatives in the primary and then get behind the primary winner.

    Coats won the primary. So he IS the guy.

  • RedBeard

    At this point, it’s rather unproductive, don’t you think?

    Primary is over. I wanted Stutzman, but Coats is now our guy. Time to rally around him.

  • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

    by supporting Coats, who may well win. Coats may even prove a better senator knowing fully a third of his own party isn’t really buying his soap.

    I’m still waiting to see the same level of fealty from the centrists, had our guy won.

  • BrianinIN

    Brizzi is all wrapped up in some ethics charges, but other than that I wasn’t aware that the Marion Cty GOP was akin to the Obama Chicago Thug regime?!

  • RedBeard

    Neatly ties together. ;-)

    Citizens for a Free Plainfield! Unite! ;-)

  • colawman

    Different dynamics in Colorado. Buck has the momentum and it looks like it will be a two horse race in the primary.

  • annas

    to find Rubio behind now in Florida. Crist is such a despicable opportunist. He is now gaining the Dem vote as he has been courting Rham et al. Bummer!

  • RINKER

    Don’t get me wrong. I like him. I was hoping he would win. But a “rockstar”? Did anyone watch the Republican debate? His commercials are good. His positions are spot-on, but he was not very articulate in the debate and was visibly nervous. He CAN be a rockstar, but he needs some more experience. Maybe this campaign helped. I think he will be a future governor or senator from Indiana, but this just wasn’t his year.

  • stephaniet

    …but I don’t regret that. One vote would not have changed the results. I was looking forward to voting for him in November anyway, but I knew deep down that it wasn’t likely he’d win. I’ve lived in Indiana for six years; this November, it will be seven years. The longer I live here, the more I find a spirit of apathy among some of the citizens (I dislike the sound of the term “Hoosiers,” so I don’t use it). They’re apathetic in their driving. Speed limit? “I’ll go fast until there’s a cop around.” Turn signal? “Who cares?” Right turn? “I can’t figure out power steering, so I’ll just clip across your bumper and nearly hit you.”

    No offense to other Indiana-ites here, but that’s how I found it. This place has had so much trouble with elections in the past (voting machines going bonkers, huge recounts every single election, etc.) that I doubt anyone wants to vote anymore. And anyone that did vote was likely to gamble on someone a little more familiar. Understandable, I guess, and not all that surprising.

    What does surprise me is the thought that Indiana is fairly conservative. Maybe, but I’ve been here six years and the past couple of months were the first times I’d seen proof of it. The state voted blue in the 2008 presidential, after all, according to the maps I saw. Then again, that could’ve been the MSM twisting things, but I don’t know. I know that my county has, apparently, a history of KKK. Yes, in Indiana, in the “fabulous” North! Anyway…

    I will likely vote for Coats just to prevent another Democrat from getting in. A bunch of Stutzman fans have started suggesting that we all do write-ins in November, but that won’t win us anything. It’ll just split the vote and change nothing. The whole point to voting is practicing responsible decision-making. Reacting with emotion won’t fix anything permanently. Now if I can just convince others of that…

  • romeg

    will be the nominee and the likely winner in November, let’s show him the love and respect that he needs and deserves and remind him, on a daily basis, that we want a return to the Conservative principles for which we stand. I include Stutzman and his supporters in this call for support for ‘our guy’.

    Perhaps he will recognize that his fealty should go with the core of the party membership, which is very stable over the longer term, rather than the party leadership which can and will be replaced over the course of the coming election cycle.

  • Scope

    and I’m sure that most R’s will back him against whatever D he runs against. The interesting thing about the race is that Coats won with only 40% of the vote. The conservatives split the vote between Stutzman and Hostettler, and wound up with the candidate seen as the least conservative between the 3, and the one pushed by the DC elites. It would have been interesting to see what the result would have been had the DCers stayed out of this, and let the people decide for themselves.

    I unfortunately suspect that we will see more of these situations happening in other primaries. When there are numerous candidates, and more than one considered to be the most/best conservative, they will continue to split the vote, and the least conservative wins. Too bad there cannot be unity, and a real desire to get good conservatives in the Congress. If that were the case, some candidates themselves would back out, and support the strongest.

    In the VA 5th district rep race, there are still 7 R candidates running against Soros/SEIU (Perriello). They all claim to be the best most perfect conservative. None of them have been able to gain much in fundraising, even the NRCC candidate of choice. Not one of them is outstanding in the polls, and the results keep changing. There are more than a few of them that need to look at reality, put their ego’s aside, and drop out for the sake of sending Perriello back home to NY, so he can keep running several Soros funded non-profits.

    BTW, there are rumors on the Web today that Virgil Goode switched to the Constitution party, and may be running as a third party candidate against Perriello. It’s not true, it is a rumor. Virgil said himself today that he is a proud dues paying member of the Franklin County GOP. And, he has no plans of running against Perriello.

  • Scope

    This is not a signal for Marlin to go quietly into the night because he did not win this primary. It is a fact that many more people now know his name than when he got into the race. When he runs for another seat, at some point, he will not be starting at point zero as he did this time. He has also gained alot of campaign experience which will help him in his future races. We cannot let good candidates like this go to waste.

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    that if you aren’t already INSIDE the Indiana Republican Party as a precinct committeeman that you become one and drag every other conservative Republican you know to your local GOP committee meetings to do the same?

    Leadership by example can sometimes inspire the apathetic to DO SOMETHING. We conservatives have to do more than just vote in the primary and general elections. We have to get INSIDE the Republican Party as PCs so we can elect better Party leadership and get involved in good, old-fashioned precinct get-out-the-vote efforts, etc.

    Go to my blog below to learn more.

    For Liberty,
    ColdWarrior, PC (that?s ?precinct committeeman,? not ?political child!?)
    Conservatives, UNITE! CHANGE the Republican Party and save the world by UNITING INSIDE the Party as precinct committeemen. NOW!

  • gunslingr45

    a chance. I only give one chance and he blew when he voted anti 2nd.

  • gunslingr45

    STABS IT’S SELF IN THE BACK!
    Truth is Marlin could have won hands down IF we all voted for the same guy, he would have by a BIG majority!
    So if the tea party is going to endorse no one, then we will continue to SPLIT/LOOSE. My choice is now to vote for a “conservative” who has voted against the 2nd? No thanks, I will either vote libertarian or vote for Carson. Hey at least he is very honest about being a socialist unlike the dregs we have had pulling the party down like say, John McCain?
    I DIDN’T LEAVE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, IT LEFT ME YESTERDAY!

  • RINKER

    I’m sorry. I just can’t buy the line that “conservatives split their vote between Stutzman and Hostettler”. Coats was far to Hostettler’s right on foreign policy, and Coats had a 90% lifetime rating by the ACU. I don’t think you can honestly peg Coats as the candidate of the liberal Republicans…. at least not with any credibility. Stutzman’s shaky debate performance might have kept some from voting for him – who knows. Stutzman would have been better, but it wasn’t as black-and-white and what RedState readers would like to think.

  • gunslingr45

    Does not cover what I stated. 1- The tea party showed its self to be totally ineffectual yesterday just as dems projected and 2-the “R” behind the name means nothing anymore.
    Oh well. Like I said before they are done getting money from me and I am going to see IF libertarians are really libertarians.

  • JadedByPolitics

    if you think they were then you and those Democrats you quote are going to be in for a VERY ROUGH RIDE on November 2nd!

  • JadedByPolitics

    ……..

  • IJB
  • gunslingr45

    HOW, if they support no one?
    Man did I jump on that T party bandwagon when it came along. All thunder and no rain is what it has amounted to. I hope other states fare better, but if like Indiana, we are doomed to socialist government and the USA of our forefathers will be lost.

  • gunslingr45

    Don’t be flabbergasted if McCain shows up on the 2012 ticket for prez. The Republicans seem to be stuck on stupid. At least none of the strippers got my hard earned dollars.

  • http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

    No need to shout. You’re already skating on thin ice. We’re not ready to surrender to the totalitarian state yet; that’s why we’re at RedState.

    Why are you here, other than to spread a spririt of despair to pave the way to hell. Either pitch in to help or get out of the kitchen.

  • Frank Zaber
  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    gunslingr45, why don’t you consider BECOMING one of “the Republicans” you complain about? I admire your passion about the right to keep and bear arms. Get all your conservative Second Amendment friends INTO the internal voting ranks of the Party and CHANGE it from within via the Neighborhood Precinct Committeeman Strategy. Go to my blog linked below to learn more.

    Complaining about “the Republicans” on Redstate doesn’t change a thing. Getting INTO the voting ranks of the Party CAN change things. If you aren’t already a PC, I hope you will become one.

    For Liberty,
    ColdWarrior, PC (that?s ?precinct committeeman,? not ?political child!?)
    Conservatives, UNITE! CHANGE the Republican Party and save the world by UNITING INSIDE the Party as precinct committeemen. NOW!

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    Get over it.

    And if you can’t get over it, don’t post third party/vote-for-Democrats/other RiNO nonsense here.

  • tomswifty

    I’ve been in Indiana 4 years myself, and was annoyed to find at the polling place I went to that there was a Dem polling judge but no Rep polling judge. I may have to volunteer!

    Worse, when I lived in Illinois, I often had *no one* to vote for, because the weak, ineffective Republicans wouldn’t even bother contesting a Democrat seat. Apathy? I think so.

  • soljerblue

    As an NRA Lifer/Endowment member from Alabama, I’D vote for Coats rather than ANY Democrat from north of the Mason-Dixon line. Agreed, Coats ain’t no bulwark for the 2A, but do you think you’ll do better with his opponent? If you do, I have a bridge I’ll be happy to sell you.

  • IJB
  • soljerblue

    You’d vote for someone you call a committed socialist and you’re a 2A supporter? With all due respect, that makes no sense.. Sorry, but as an NRA Lifer, I can’t figure out that point of view. Any day I’ll take the guy who might do what’s right over the guy I know will do wrong.

  • gunslingr45

    same thing about McCain, which I am done voting for D: BIG SOCIALIST or R: LITTLE BIT SOCIALIST. and they ain’t getting my guns anyways.

  • gunslingr45

    people ain’t listening, I said I was going. I have been R farther back that RR! And I am going Libertarian.

  • GenEarly

    I heard a rumor the NRA would not support Coats in the General Election. Can this be verified?

  • acat

    Are there enough one-issue firearms-owners-rights voters out there to cause Coats to lose if the NRA doesn’t support him?

    Coats isn’t perfect, but the die is cast – he’s the one to support.

    Mew

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    There’s a reason Democrats in DC stopped talking about gun control.

  • Doc Holliday

    the famous gourmand Brilliat Savarin is famed for saying “tell me what you eat and I will tell you who you are”.

    Well, my philosophy is that where a man stands on the 2nd Amendment tells me who he is. It is not “one issue”, it is THE issue. The 2nd amendment protects all the other amendments. A man’s position on the 2nd amendment says what he thinks of humanity.

    Coats was wrong and better admit it or he is going down.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    no one would argue that individuals have a right to bear a tank or nuclear missile as their arms under the Second Amendment, isn’t it a bit extreme to come down so hard on votes against for the assault weapons ban? I think so.

    And especially in the case of Coats, where his record is really historic and part and parcel of the great conservative era of Reagan-Newt.

  • gunslingr45

    whole reason for my post was simple. I got involved back when the T party started in Indianapolis and have spent time and money in support of them. BUT my point is whats the use if hey are not going to endorse someone like Marlin.
    If we can’t unite behind one person, what’s it all for then?

  • Doc Holliday

    but I am surprised I have to explain it here, but I will explain it to you. I am very well versed on this subject. As a teaser I will tell you that the so called Assault Weapons Ban did NOTHING to reduce crime, it was crafted by people who would not know an assault weapon from a curling iron, and it was a terrible infringement on the right to keep and bear arms.

    You say it was no big deal, just ask Bill Clinton how big a deal it was, he said it lost him the Congress in ’94 and he said it during the State of the Union. The ban is long gone now with no ill effects. For Coats to support a worthless bill and backstab law abiding citizens shows his lack of mettle and his complete misunderstanding of firearms and individual rights. When you start throwing the nuclear missile argument around I think I am at Daily Kos.

    BTW, the deep South is the worst on gun rights of all the Republican areas. Give me a Virginia, West Virginia, Florida, and the West over the Carolinas, Georgia, MS, AL, and LA any day when it comes to gun rights. And if you want to know why this is, the key word is “Jim Crow”

  • Doc Holliday

    so called assault weapons ban AKA Clinton Gun Ban

  • acat

    … but it’s not mine, so I’m not as literate as you obviously are.

    Coats is the candidate. While I have my reservations, that fact is no longer subject to debate. What’s debatable is whether Coats can win the general.

    I would hope, Doc, that the Firearms Rights folks would learn from the Stupak debacle – the Dem candidate *will* vote for the worst case you can imagine * while the Repub – Coats – could possibly be edumacated.

    Mew

    * The worst case I can imagine is the more subtle attack on wh can buy and own ammunition – without ammunition, a rifle is just a rather fragile club, eh?

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    that the 2nd amendment obviously doesn’t allow individuals the right to have ANY weapon they desire up to and including tanks and nuclear missiles, that Congress can and must regulate and that since being deprived of certain kinds of assault rifles doesn’t unduly deprive one of their right to defend themselves and their homes, I didn’t see the issue as a major one. Obviously others do, and I respect that.

  • Doc Holliday

    in detail since the ban is no longer in place. I will do a little FAQ that might give you and others some more info on the ban which could possibly change a few minds on whether it infringed on 2A rights or not.

    Q: Why does anyone need a machine gun that “sprays” bullets?
    A: The Clinton Gun Ban (AWB) in fact specifically did NOT ban machine guns, it banned semi-autos that looked “scary” and production and sale of magazines that held more than ten rounds.

    Ironically, fully automatic weapons were not affected at all. These types of weapons are covered under the National Firearms Act of 1934 and can be purchased with a $200 tax stamp and background check.

    So the AWB banned scary looking semi-autos and did NOT ban full autos, does that make sense?

    Q: Who needs a semi automatic assault weapon?
    A: The semi-auto weapons that were banned had the same semi-auto action (you must pull the trigger every time to fire a round) as non – banned hunting rifles and shotguns that were not banned and have been used by civilians for 60 or 70 years.

    Q: So why were some semi-auto rifles banned and others not banned?
    A: The liberals in Congress who decided which guns were banned had their own criteria for what made a rifle an “assault weapon” The main criteria was if the rifle looked scary. No one cared about how the weapon functioned, they only cared if the weapon had a scary appearance. Some of the things that got the guns banned were scary black colors, flash suppressors, and bayonet lugs.

    Think about that last one. A rifle was banned because it had a lug where you could attach a bayonet! When was the last time you saw criminals in a bayonet charge?

    Q: Why would anyone need a pistol that had a magazine that held more than 10 rounds?
    A: What right did Janet Reno and Bill Clinton have to decide Americans had a right to have ten round magazines and not 11 round magazines? What do the words “shall not be infringed” mean to you?

    Q: But all we want is to save lives, guns kill
    A: yeah people have been killed by gunfire. The majority of murders in the USA are committed with .22 caliber pistols. And so called military style assault weapons are involved in less than 1 percent of gun crimes.

    Q: But, but, where does this stop, by your logic people could own tanks and nuclear weapons right?

    A: Well I believe more than a few people do own tanks but not the shells to blast away a bank. I think it is pretty obvious what the Founders meant when they said we had the right to own “arms”, these are firearms. All you have to look at is the arms Americans legally owned at the time. These were the same types of rifles and pistols used by the military. The Founders believed in militias that could fight wars, so the men needed arms to fight other armies with. I don’t think many people in America owned large cannons and Man of War battleships.

  • Doc Holliday

    I have said before that the Second Amendment protects all the other amendments. Furthermore, the 2A gives the right to defend one’s life and liberty, how can any other amendment be more important.

    The 2A is a deal breaker with me because it tells me all I need to know about a man. If you don’t believe in the 2A, I can’t trust you. But this does not make me a one issue voter, I am a conservative through and through.

    Look at the policies of Red State. The site has a rule than no one pro-abortion can be a front pager. Does this mean the Directors are one issue voters? No, it means they consider the abortion issue so vital to their beliefs, they can’t allow even other conservative friend to be FP’s that don’t believe as they do on this one issue.

    I can’t trust anyone who does not strongly support the Second Amendment. This does not make me a one issue voter at all. I will give you another example. Mike Huckabee claims to be a strong supporter of the 2A. The problem with Mike is he is a statist. I can’t support Huckabee because he is a statist, I don’t care about his 2A position. Furthermore, I can’t trust 2A rights to a statist because a statist can change his views on 2A, and will have no problem taking away our rights when and if he changes his mind on that one issue.

    BTW, I never said I would not support Coats. He might be the best candidate left in the race. I want the Repubs to win back the Senate. But if the NRA takes him on, or does not support him, he is in big trouble.

  • gekster
  • Doc Holliday

    the libs will go after everything. After Obama won there was a huge run on “assault rifles” and scary looking pistols. A few months later there was a glut of these weapons available and the prices fell. Then there was a run on ammunition, that run is just beginning to abate. The less historically popular rounds such as the .380 are so scarce as to be non existent. The reason for this is the manufacturers did not have the equipment to increase production to meet demand.

    Many people were so afraid of draconian bans they went out and bought all the reloading equipment they could find. There was a time when you could not even find primers for reloading your own rounds. I am not sure what the situation with primers is now. The problem is the gun and ammo makers are afraid to spend a lot on new manufacturing equipment figuring the surge in demand will die down and they will be stuck.

  • Doc Holliday

    it is the money the NRA would put into the race if it had a friend running. Now if they oppose him, which is not likely, they could easily finish him off because even a lot of Dems in Indiana cling to their guns.

  • acat

    Do we end up with another Dem Senator from Indiana?

    That’s my bottom line, Doc. I agree with you that the 2nd Amendment, the right to bear arms, is critical. So is the 1st Amendment, the right to speak my mind, or the 3rd, right to not have armed forces camping out in my living room.

    I understand your point that the 2nd is the “final veto”, if you will – preserving the ability of the Governed to forcibly throw off a yoke they do not accept. That doesn’t change the bottom line – if Coats is shunned by the NRA, and that means he can’t win, then Indiana gets a Dem Senator and, assuming he wins re-election, Harry Reid could retain the gavel.

    That’s what I’m reading your position to be. Please show me what I’m not understanding.

    Mew

  • Doc Holliday

    it is just the reality. Dan Coats needs the support of the NRA. The NRA is in many ways an inside the beltway organization, they are not the Tea Party. What I mean by this is they realize the political ramifications of their actions very well.

    I did not say that the NRA will go after Coats, I said I doubt that will happen. But it is Coat’s job to court the NRA and gun owners if he wants their money to help him.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    flawed vehicle of the English language!

  • Doc Holliday

    no acceptable bans. We will give no more ground, ever.