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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Senator Ethanol, the Young Guns, and the Politically Expedient

Senator John Thune took to the Senate floor yesterday to criticize his fellow 2012 presidential contenders for playing politics with the Obama-Kyl tax deal.

“It is easy to stand on the sidelines and criticize this deal,” Thune said. “And it would perhaps be politically expedient to stand on the sideline and criticize this tax deal. But to advocate against this tax deal is to advocate for a tax increase.”

It certainly is not.

None of the conservatives opposed to Obama-Kyl, including myself, want tax rates to go up on January 1. However, we are simply unwilling to accept the party line that the best deal we could get includes a mammoth 13 month extension of unpaid unemployment benefits (thus caving after a year-long fight on the principle of paying for such extensions), an extension of current tax rates that conveniently ignores the resurrection of the death tax, and a package of tax extenders that includes all sorts of giveaways for big business.

One of those giveaways is the renewal of the tax and tariff subsidies for ethanol that Senator Thune is so beholden too. At the end of November, Thune joined over a dozen other Senators in requesting that these extensions be made a priority in any legislative end-game, and inevitably these subsidies made it into the Obama-Kyl package that Thune is now heartily supporting. (Who is playing politics here, Senator?)

But Thune isn’t the only one casting aspersions on the motives of those opposing Obama-Kyl.

Republican Whip and self-declared Young Gun Eric Cantor, through his spokesman, is accusing opponents of the tax deal with “playing political chess with the budgets of millions of working families and small businesses.” Another Young Gun, Paul Ryan, stated that, “I think presidential aspirants will try to out-conservative each other for their own purposes.”

Folks, I have said it before, and I’ll say it again. The issues are different, but the proponents of Obama-Kyl tax make up the same coalition that gave us TARP. They are the doomsday caucus that warn us repeatedly that the world is about to end if we don’t accept THIS deal RIGHT now WITHOUT delay. Take the comments of the much heralded Ryan back when TARP was being considered on the floor of the House:

This is a Herbert Hoover moment. He made some big mistakes after the Great Depression, and we lived those consequences for decades. Let’s not make that mistake. There is a lot of fear and a lot of panic out there. A lot of what this is about is getting that fear and panic out of the market….Colleagues, we are in the moment. This bill doesn’t have everything I want in it. It has a lot of good things it. But we are here. We are in this moment. And if we fail to do the right thing, heaven help us. If we fail to pass this, I fear the worst is yet to come.

The more the issues change, the more the protagonists stay the same.

I get that John Thune loves his ethanol subsidies that raise the cost of food. I get that Eric Cantor and Paul Ryan always think the world is about to end without Congressional action. But let’s not buy into their notion that it’s politically expedient to be among the few who are out there willing to stand up to their party, and most of the political establishment, and say that a deal stinks and ought to be killed. That takes real courage, and real courage is never politically expedient.

COMMENTS

  • fpete13527

    There should never have been a “deal.” Never.

    All aspects of the “crisis tax deal” have been pathetic and now they are an Obamination.

    We need to either grow fighters in the GOP or this will continue.

    My criteria stance on GOP candidates has just shifted even more than it already, has even farther to the right.

    And unlike Kyl, and McConnells pathetic “compromise” I say that for future candidates at this point….a main criteria must be zero tolerance for compromise…zero.

    Reid and Pelosi are the scum of the Earth and they hate the American people, but they fight for their cause (Socialism/Communism) at all costs…and they dont care what the media says (even though the media is 98% shill for them)

    We need fighters who will fight as hard as the Socislits…..but not illegally, and not for scum (like the Dems) but rather with integrity and the Constitution and Freedom. It can happen.

    I say we will find that group and will augment the current freshmen fighters and end the the Socialist Party (Dems) for the rest of time.

  • positiveenerg

    The bill stinks. This is true. But the increasing taxes on 24 million American families through the Alternative Minimum Tax, increasing the tax that most small businesses in America pay to 40 percent, increasing the Death Tax to 55%, increasing the capital gains tax, having a return of the marriage penalty, cutting the child tax credit in half … those tax increases and more stink worse.

    When you have a Democrat House, Senate and President and you can stop those tax increases and more from taking effect, you do it. Pelosi, Reid and Obama are free to let the taxes increase and double the negative impact of this bill. Stop all those tax increases. Then, in January, you are able to run bills in the House (that won’t likely become law) that call folks out for ethanol subsidies, earmarks and the rest and vote to remove them …

    It’s a choice between something bad (the bill) and something really, really bad (no bill and tax increases).

    I understand and respect your position. By making that choice, however, you are supporting all of those tax increases.

  • Goldwater_Conservative

    supposed doomsday senarios with a time stamped period on it. They do that to draw on your emotion which is always your weakest political sense. So I dont buy the hysteria, but I do think that the deal is roughly, maybe they could get a few more things if they held out, about as good as they can get with only controlling the house.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    work on Christmas to save us a trillion dollars. By all means work thru Christmas as are the soldiers in Afghanistan. The soldiers are battling foriegn terrorists. Kyl & Co need to fight the democrats terrorizing the economy and the budget,

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2010/12/14/america-can-survive-23-more-days-without-a-budget/

  • fpete13527
  • red_oakster

    Do you think it’s courage that is motivating Pence and Palin on this one? How about Captain Courageous himself, Mitt Romney? All these folks are thinking seriously about running for President and their decisions are calculated accordingly. And I don’t begrudge any of them for their position. And other potential candidates like Gingrich and Bolton and Huckabee came down on the other side. It means that conservatives can differ on a reasonable basis about this.

    But none of it was about political courage.

    However, I would observe Erick, that when these intramurals end as they do here with criticisms of Kyl, Ryan, and Cantor, three of the most effective conservatives in Congress, it tends to undermine the credibility of the argument.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • Goldwater_Conservative

    they probably do really believe their own doomsday senarios. Once you get in there its just natural to think the world revolves around Washington and if they fail the act, the world will be stuck. I really think they do believe what they are saying, and since no one is ever going to challenge them on it, how will they ever know the difference?

  • Superheater

    The ends, indeed no ends, justify any means, except to Marxists, “socialists of all parties” and radical utilitarians.

    End the porkfest already!

  • streiff

    if the bill fails in the lame duck session it will be taken up in the new Congress and made retroactive.

    So really the choice is between taking a bad bill today or waiting until we have the House and taking a bill we like.

  • csw1

    You’re absolutely right, positive. By voting against the bill, they are supporting the tax increases IN THE HOPE that there might be something similar without the spending. No such future is certain.

  • chamberD

    You’re spot on, fpete.

    “You shall know them by their deeds.”

    Kyl is proving more and more that he’s gone over to the dark side. He, and law-makers like him, advocates for bipartisanship and compromise, which to democrat commies’ ears equals capitulation. I guess he doesn’t realize that when we sent 63 new Republican house members to the hill that we mean business — no spending, no subsidies period. In fact, if a blizzard hit DC and it were to be shut down for the next three weeks, it would be the best thing that could happen to the nation at this time in history.

    The nail is in the coffin for Kyl’s term; it will be his last one; he and J.McCain were among the 81 senators who just sold America down the river, yet again.

    I’ve already talked to a potential primary opponent to Kyl, whose term ends in 2012.

  • Common_Cents

    They were threatening making death taxes retroactive, tax cuts can also be made retroactive for 2011.

    This is a freakin sham. call their bluff, take a little pain and blame in the lame stream media until the new year and then get on with a real permanent tax cut for all.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    If you tie TARP to the tax deal you might send an unexpected message.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    had enough and have gone rogue! Yep, the old optimistic and patient rooster is no more.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    had enough and have gone rogue! Yep, the old optimistic and patient rooster is no more.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    people to know who is screwing them. Moreover, we should simply say to Americans, as they watch the Organized Crime of Reid and Pelosi in the lame Duck, that we are going to have to suffer the sins of Dems forever or suffer a bit with a tax hike in order to win the war over them.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    people to know who is screwing them. Moreover, we should simply say to Americans, as they watch the Organized Crime of Reid and Pelosi in the lame Duck, that we are going to have to suffer the sins of Dems forever or suffer a bit with a tax hike in order to win the war over them.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    were not in the tax compromise bill, I would have changed my position from support to opposition of the tax bill after I saw the Omnibus crime! It is time to go to the American people and ask them to take in homeless govt workers that miss a paycheck for 3-4 weeks in order to prevent the domestic dem terrorists from trying to take New Orleans like British after the War of 1812 peace treay was signed.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    were not in the tax compromise bill, I would have changed my position from support to opposition of the tax bill after I saw the Omnibus crime! It is time to go to the American people and ask them to take in homeless govt workers that miss a paycheck for 3-4 weeks in order to prevent the domestic dem terrorists from trying to take New Orleans like British after the War of 1812 peace treay was signed.

  • runner12

    gone down in the Senate (our only hope now is that the House will kill it or load it with things that the Senate GOP won’t stand for), I listened to my Senator (Coburn) explain why he voted for it. It comes down to basically not putting anything past the Dems. He really believed that the Dems would not pass tax cuts in the new Congress and that we would be stuck at the high rate. Given their complete disregard for the American people during health care, I understand his point. So not every Senator that voted for this bill is a RINO or a sellout, maybe they have just become too cynical and defeatist.
    While this is an understandable reaction, it is an inherently flawed one because it is exactly the kind of thinking the Dems count on. You cannot stop tyrants and manipulators by negotiating for something that is less evil or bad. They still have the upper hand if you capitulate to them even a little.The best way to stop bullies and tyrants is to stand up to them and call their bluff. I respect Sen. Coburn on many things, but in this instance, his reasoning has some serious flaws.

  • Goldwater_Conservative

    I hate TARP in principle, but if we recall what its purpose was (keeping the banks for going under at the time) I would say it worked. Plus, didn’t most of that get payed back with intrest?

  • http://teapartisan.wordpress.com Socrates

    is in believing that since Kyl, Ryan, and Cantor are generally conservative on the issues that anything they propose is therefore conservative, and being conservative, is right.

    Kyl, Ryan, and Cantor (and Thune) belong to that broad class of politicians for whom political strategy trumps ideals. The Senators are not part of the “Mod Squad” of the Maine Sisters and Mark Kirk, but neither are any of them Jim DeMint, nor are the Congressmen Mike Pences.

    These are all Insiders. They are not about ideals, but about numbers, positioning, and strategy. So even though they are all conservative people, that is not what drives their actions.

    As far as Sarah Palin and Mitt Romney go, you are right that courage is irrelevant to their stances. Not being in Congress, they don’t have to make deals to get their earmarks passed. They are much more free to call for a stand to be made than if they had to make such a stand themselves.

    Oh, and Thune is now out of the running for President.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    What I do believe is that the Obamaites didn’t implement it nearly as honestly as the Bush people would have. :)

  • Locke

    but these attacks on the motives and integrity of fellow Reps are despicable.

  • Michael Dugas

    I’m not one to get openly angry or hateful but it’s like we did all this work to win this election and so many Republicans still seem to be running around with eyes wide shut.! Are they this stupid or just this ego driven and power hungry? What ever it is I’ve had enough. No more polite toned phone calls and emails…..it’s time for verbal confrontation and make them voice their intentions for all to hear.
    We can’t let this jerks off the hook and we need to save our country.
    Kyl, Cantor, Cornyn etc, whether Congressmen or Senators they need to be made aware that we are NOT going to turn a blind eye or forget their shameful behavior!

  • Michael Dugas

    I was under the impression that spending, taxes etc legislation was supposed to start in the House NOT the Senate and then go backwards to the House. This is a bad precedent constitutionally.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • fpete13527

    ….because it would mean they would have to fight and actually do something.

    This way they get away with doing nothing and they can fake it after the New Year and get back to their true porkdom and moderacy.

    The precedent stinks and the overall mindset of the GOP Senate stinks.

  • fpete13527
  • Flagstaff

    Also by the many healthy ‘Pubs who we once thought “got it.”

    There isn’t that much difference between the reasons for voting against the budget resolution and against the tax “compromise.”

    They are both abominations and those who vote for either one should be primaried.

    Let’s shut down the government and take care of taxes in January.

    Today, there ISN’T a dime’s worth of difference between the parties.

    The Republican Party is committing suicide by stupidity.

  • Bill S

    You’ll have a GOP-led House going up against a Dem Senate, led by a guy who would be perfectly happy to see all of the Bush cuts disappear. The philosophical gap between sides will be much deeper in January, and the deadlock between sides could last for months, and all the while the newly-hiked deductions are eating away at paychecks. The new withholding is bound to kick in immediately, and any retroactive fixes could take a long time. The damage to the economy and to paychecks can be profound by that time.

    IMHO, this ain’t the time to screw with it. Pass the bill and be done with it. $8B is pocket change the way this administration spends money.

  • wolfeman

    They should have had the courage to do the right thing instead of settling for the lesser of two evils. Every single time Republicans settle, we as a country move farther to the left. That’s the case 100% of the time. The only way to stop it is to start doing the right thing. At least if it failed and the tax cuts expired, it would have been the Dems who were blocking then. It’s way past time to not just draw a line in the sand, but actually start defending it with all our might.

  • sunny_

    Just another RINO showing his true colors and lack of courage!

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • runner12

    all are. That is not to say that I agree with their reasoning. As I stated in my post, their reasoning is flawed. They think that by compromising with corrupt people, they may be able to “protect” the American people in some way. They fail to realize that they look weak to both the American people and their opponents when they do this. If they would just take a STAND and fight back, the bullies would stand down. They must begin to grow a spine.

  • wolfeman

    They have to come to realize though that every time they cast a vote to “protect” us, they’re just delaying the pain that we’re going to have to face at some point. The quicker we start to take steps to stop the bleeding, the sooner we’ll be healed.

  • wolfeman

    They have to come to realize though that every time they cast a vote to “protect” us, they’re just delaying the pain that we’re going to have to face at some point. The quicker we start to take steps to stop the bleeding, the sooner we’ll be healed.

  • kabane52

    Okay, you can disagree with Senator Thune, as I do, on this issue. But really, he’s not a RINO. Not everyone who doesn’t vote conservative on every single issue is a RINO.

  • http://freedom-light.org solvoreor

    But you can’t call it welfare because that was limited to 104 weeks in the 1990′s. So you call it unemployment.

    Yes I am a republican, yes I have collected unemployment, once before Reagan and once before Clinton. Both times I took advantage of the opportunity unemployment offered to revamp my skills and start over. And neither time did I need more than 26 weeks. Although the first time I had to follow jobs west and south because the democrats and their holy trinity of unions, eco-centrics and bureaucratic regulators destroyed the jobs in the Northeast.

    So keep this in mind republicans. Not only are you voting to increase spending. You are voting to extend welfare to people for 3 years.

    Names are being taken and we will see you in the primaries.
    Sugar and cream with that?

  • Scope

    He signed the letter for ethanol subsidies, and, if I’m not mistaken he voted for the Food Safety bill. If that isn’t the voice of a RINO, I don’t know what is. It is not only not conservative, but is actually not even Republican to vote for a Progressive bill that is a government takeover of the agriculture and food sector of our economy. Sorry, he is a RINO. I’m actually glad that he is voting the way he is. It immediately disqualifies him for any presidential run.

  • kabane52

    He’s from South Dakota. Did you really expect any member of Congress from either party in South Dakota to oppose ethanol subsidies? Yes, it hikes food prices, and I oppose them,, but South Dakotans overwhelmingly favor them.. Members of congress represent their particular district or state. That’s simply how the system works.

    What does RINO even mean anymore? Republican In Name Only. As in, someone who is a Republican, but consistently votes in opposition to the conservative principles of the Republican Party. Does Thune qualify? Absolutely not.

    I see a senator with a 100% rating from the National Right to Life Committee. Rated A+ from the National Rifle Association. Rated 0% from Citizens for “Tax Justice”. In other words, a pro-life, pro-gun, tax-cutting conservative. RINO? Give me a break.

  • chamberD

    Noting your comments on Thune, let’s place them in context.

    Every single lawmaker on the Hill has his particular pack of people back home putting the screws to him to peddle for special favors.

    This is how we got in this mess. If it’s ok for Thune to make agri happy, it’s ok for every other representative to do the same with their own special constituencies.

    This has got to stop. The U.S. government has become nothing more than a giant money-laundering machine, amassing wealth from the productive citizens and passing it along to special interests – in return for political favors, read that campaign contributions and votes. This government is so corrupt it doesn’t know its head from a black hole. Our government has become nothing more than a protection racket. The whole edifice is poisoned.

    Thune plays the game well, knows his people are conservative and campaigns to the right. But when it comes time to say NO to spending OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY, he can’t quite seem to understand that it’s NOT HIS MONEY TO SPEND.

  • chamberD

    that every single member of congress goes to DC to leach off the rest of the nation, to act as a robber — actually — to steal all he can from other districts and states and bring it home to his voters.

    Is that what you’re telling me? So when we’re voting, we’re voting for the man who will steal the most for us?

    Is that what this is all about?

  • jimmyneutron

    how they don’t get it yet? I am heartily sick and tired of all of this mindless, corrupt spending – especially by GOP critters. Don’t they realize that we are not going to support the same old garbage that has been going on for years, but that we are ready for some responsible governence?
    I don’t care if they raise taxes right now – do so and let us all suffer the consequences rather than let them get away with additional deficit spending and pork barrel politics. Stand on principle and shout it from the rooftops.
    Kill this bill and kill the omnibus.
    As for the GOP people who voted for and continue to vote for this garbage – some of us won’t forget and we will devote all sorts of energy to seeing you go down in defeat in 2012 or 2014. People are waking up and they won’t support you anymore just because you have an R by your name.
    Oh, and all of this arguing about ethanol subsidies and pork spending is ridiculous – we are BROKE!!! Over 100 trillion in unfunded program spending and we are arguing about how much more to spend – gee, I think I will take out a 3rd mortgage to pay off my $35k credit card debt! It doesn’t matter what those absolute idiots in DC vote to spend or fund or whatever, the tipping point has been reached and the money is running out fast. Pretty soon the poor in this country are going to find out what poor really means – and it doesn’t mean going to Walmart with your handy dandy government debit card to load up on goodies. Talk about rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!
    Wake up GOP…

  • http://www.buckforcolorado.com bjwilson83

    He must not be planning on running for president. And I sure hope that the tea party et. al. are busy planning some primary surprises right now. Just as we suspected, the GOP was planning to co-opt the Tea Party all along. They haven’t changed they’re big spending ways, and it’s high time they were punished.

  • proudmarinemom

    we need to consider that what we have in Washington is nothing more than a two-party oligarchy bent on siphoning off as much wealth from the American people as they can during their tenure, unfettered by negative polls, unafraid of elections, unprincipled, undisciplined and corrupt. They chip away at our resolve to fight day after day, until we can barely even read about it anymore.

    I have given up calling my two liberal Senators because they do not care. The toll it takes on me to care is becoming an intolerable burden — they’re counting on that. Every day, I tune in less. Yet I always hope that one morning I’ll wake up and not feel like I’m in Caracas. I’ll be back in the fight, but I need a Christmas right now.

    “I am a little bloodied
    But I am not slain.
    I lay me down for to bleed a while,
    Yet I will rise
    And fight with you again!”

  • gekster

    When building a dam,
    If you can bring a large rock for the dam,
    that will help get the dam built.
    If you bring a few pebbles,
    that too will help get the dam built.
    Does it really matter who brings what and how much?
    The dam still gets built.

    It doesn’t matter how little we bring to the fight,
    It matters that we show up to the fight.

  • gekster

    reply to this is my friend. ;)

  • antisocial

    I think it is all political calculation. The Magnificent One realizes that the economy is not coming back any time soon. He also realizes that once he has republican support, he has taken away their most potent argument. In 2012 he can go back to beating Republicans with “See we were bipartisan and extended the tax cuts with X% of republicans signing on. It is time to realize that tax cuts don’t work. Now that we know that this does not work we need to do things differently.”

    This retroactive stuff will happen. There are too many senators up for reelection in 2012.

    Don’t buy into that argument. That is beltway guys selling you crap.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    After all, that strategy has served them well in the past. My fear is a permanent third party will come out of this, and that way the left wins.

  • http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com katesmith

    Last Friday via Big Government/a>. Tea Party spokesman says, “We are not going away.” Police reported obscenity written on toilet seat about Tea Party (details on link).

  • davesinsanantonio

    is spot on! That is why we need statesmen (those whose main concern is what is best for the nation) and fewer politicians (those whose main concern is their next re-election). If you are willing to compromise on your basic principles for near-term gain, you really have no principles. We must elect better people to office. The pols will always be pols, and so can be corrupted by something. Statesmen always act on principle, and thus cannot be corrupted. We may disagree with them, but we are seldom disgusted by or frightened by them. The current crop of squishy RINOs do not qualify as statesmen. I am not making judgments on individuals. but by their fruits ye shall know them. Nobody in politics is perfect, but we should be able to see who is mainly where on the continuum between statesmen and pol. We need to elect more of those who are closer to statesment perfection and a lot fewer of those who are almost perfect politicians (those who have no principles except their won re-election).

  • ihateliberals

    The fact that we took the House back and gained many seats in the Senate doesn’t mean we are through it means that we are just beginning. The 2010 election was meant to put the brakes on Obamanation. The 2012 is when we actually get to turn things around. The problem we have to concentrate on now is the Liberal republicans like John McCain in the Senate and Boehner in the house. I hate Arizona for send McCain back to DC. The problem with the Tax deal is that it should have never been brought up by a Republican until the 2011 session started with the new seats. There should not have been any deal other than to tell the Democrats and Obama that the “bush tax rates stay where they are” and then not waver or let Pork be added to the bill. Boehner nees to listen to what the people said in Nov. It is ashame that he will be Speaker of the House. All we did was trade one liberal for another.

  • runner12

    Turns out Sen. Coburn ended up voting NO on the tax compromise. Looks like he listened to the people.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    by Bernanke

  • cam1

    and your Rep in the House and ask them for the courage to kill this horrible insult to the American people. The Nov 2 election was about this very thing. No more pork. We have gone broke. Stop spending money we don’t have.

  • acat

    Obama and the Dems in the Senate desperately need a better economy to run on. That, after all, was what saved Clinton’s bacon. They simply can not allow taxes to go up and stay up going into 2012…

    Yes, the tax rates increase, but what’s going to bite on day of 2011 is the withholding rate increases. That’ll suck, especially after a Christmas spending binge, but .. when Obama signs a bill lowering the taxes, they go right back down.

    If you think the Repubs can and will pass a better deal, go down to HR and file a new withholding sheet, increasing your withholdings by 1. Just remember to change it *back* after the Repubs do pass a better deal…

    This is not as big a problem as the “pass it now” side makes it sound .. I’m wondering if Bennet’s earlier comment applies – “this is all planned out” .. and if so, just who’s trying to derail it?

    (whoever it is, I fully support)

    Mew

  • acat

    “I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”

    Mew

  • red_oakster

    The fact is that lots of conservatives think the tax bill is the lesser of two evils. The next two years are going to be spent arguing about spending. That’s a huge strategic gain. As for Kyl, this is the man trying to kill the START treaty, the guy who killed the test ban, the guy who has led the fight for death tax repeal, and the guy who killed the Harriet Miers nomination. He’s also the whip and that means playing some inside baseball. On this one, I just don’t think Erick has come within the barn door of making a persuasive case. Just note that the GOP voted overwhelmingly for this. Reasonable conservatives can differ on this, and the fact is, lots and lots of conservative Republican Senators voted for this.

  • red_oakster

    Sheesh.

  • acat

    He’s got great Social Conservative (or, Religious Right, if you prefer) credentials. Very pro-life. Also very pro-firearms rights, which I’m in favor of, but .. from South Dakota that’s not really surprising.

    His fiscal conservative cred is .. nonexistent.

    He may have voted for ‘tax cuts’ but he’s got quite a few earmarks out there, and has been on the wrong side of a number of government giveaways.

    He’s a statist, a believer in the power of big, centralized government to do good. This belief may have been acceptable at one time but .. I do not accept it any longer.

    I want someone who, like Reagan, understands that “In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problems; government is the problem.”

    I see Thune running on his social-conservative cred. I do not see the case for Thune being the combined socon/ficon that we need.

    Mew

  • Locke

    in how they respond.

    As for Thune’s ratings, look back over a few years and take Club for Growth as an example.

    year 2009 2008 2007 2006 2005
    rank 7 13 25 22 47

    I’m not sure what this means, but I’ve noticed before that Senators and Representatives – almost all the ones I’ve looked at – got better ratings in the minority than in the majority, especially with a Dem President.

    But I wouldn’t put much faith in that zero rating from “Citizens for Tax Justice?.

    I agree that the term “RINO” hasn’t meant much – because the party hasn’t consistently stood for much. That’s changing, but I would retire the term until the probationary period is past.

  • positiveenerg

    You are spot on, red_oakster …

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • JSobieski

    That price needs to factor in:
    (1) the impact of a tax increase
    (2) the likelihood that the increase will in fact be permanent
    (3) the magnitude of improvement in the “new deal” reached in 2011

    I think how the Omnibus is handled will tell us alot about whether or not we will be able to cut a better tax deal.

    If you knew for certain that the failure to implement the current tax deal would result in a tax increase that would not be fixed in 2011, would that change your opposition to the deal?

    In thinking about the question, I still come out opposed—but I am nonetheless nervous about a double-dip.

  • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack

    They are threatening higher taxes and using this belligerance against the American People to ram through $1Tr in pork. We need to ask them where the morality is in that.

  • chamberD

    daveinsanantonio and acat.

    So let’s call these politicians what they are: REDISTRIBUTIONISTS.

    They need to understand that any taint of redistributionism in their — let’s say, “body of work” — automatically makes of them an enemy of our republic.

    Why? Because it identifies them immediately as a member of the ruling class who seek to loot America for their own selfish gain, in this case, re-election and political POWER. And it matters not that they eschew Marxism for they nevertheless prove themselves useful idiots for the commie takeover of America. They become participants in the overwhelming of the system the Marxists employ to bring about financial collapse, chaos, and totalitarian rule.

    Let’s call them out for what they are. They cannot hide behind social conservative postures when their actions related to fiscal policy speed along the Marxist agenda.

  • acat

    more than one leg of the stool.

    Strong national defense.
    Limited government.
    Pro-Family.

    Thune is, by that definition, not a RINO – he’s just a Big Government guy who seems to think that it’s his turn. I disagree.

    Mew

  • runner12

    Love the last paragraph! Could not agree more.

  • JSobieski

    Challenging the morality of democrats is something we should do, but they aren’t going to change their ways, so it begs the question of what is the best move in terms of likely outcomes.

  • chamberD

    bj: I told my sister that the establishment repubs are licking their chops over their great fortune in having the Tea Party deliver them a majority in the House. I also told her that each and every one of the 63 has a target on his back to be subsumed into the Washington way of doing things, to the country’s detriment.

    What the establishment fails to see is this, by way of anecdote: This Saturday I was there when a new state house representative told an audience that when he walked out of the polling place on Nov.2 a voter told him, while pointing his finger at him, that while he voted for the guy it was only on probation. One false move and he would be replaced.

    And we are watching — with a magnifying glass, I might add — and we will not take lack of spine kindly. Any such lack of nerve and lack of principle will bring an immediate dismissal. We’re had it with crony government!

  • chamberD

    proudmarinemom.

    I, too, take time off from the constant drubbing of bad news. But I always come back MORE fresh, MORE determined, and BETTER armed.

    I have quit watching TV news altogether: No more Hannity (whom himself, I actually still regard as one of us), or Greta, or Bret Baier. I just can’t take the lies of the RINOs; and having to listen for even a second to Juan Williams and the like, makes my blood curdle. Even the so-called conservative talking heads send me over the edge with their LACK OF BLOODY SPINE. You’d think it was all an academic exercise, this parsing of our country’s destruction. Even they just don’t get it.

  • Locke

    as a center of autonomy, anyway, so I don’t trust any Big Government guy to be genuinely pro-family. And I’m not sure I trust any Big Government guy not to have some sympathy for the biggest government of all, World Government, or alternatively, for nationalistic expansionism.

  • acat

    (but because they won’t admit that’s the end point of their philosophy, the communists get to the one-size-fits-all faster …)

    This is why big government is anti-family. it is also anti-national-defense – as you say, why have nations?

    That said, a successful candidate must have all three legs to his or her stool, none more important than another.

    Mew

  • Locke

    easier when people are all alike or can be presumed to be all alike.

  • acat

    Think Soviet collapse and the rise of the Russian Mafia to fill the power void…

    One-size-fits-all means all the non-standard needs get met by a black market … and the government pretty much has to tolerate it. …

    Mew