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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN: This Rule Should Be Defeated

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GO HERE NOW. TELL YOUR CONGRESSMAN TO VOTE AGAINST THE RULE. READ BELOW FOR DETAILS.

Last night, the House of Representatives’ Rules Committee shut down Rep. Steve King’s ability to offer an amendment to completely defund Obamacare on the continuing resolution to fund the government through the end of the year. House Republicans are now hiding behind parliamentary rules to say that it would somehow violate what the new Republican Majority is all about.

This is just complete and utter nonsense.

Obamacare was a mix of what is called discretionary and mandatory spending. King is trying to defund the entire law, but the parliamentarians are arguing that his amendment would be out of order (i.e. against House Rules) because it attempts to mess with programs that are not strictly discretionary.

But the thing that people need to understand about the House of Representatives is that every major bill that comes to the floor is governed by a “special rule” that sets the parameters of the debate and the amendment process for that bill. You don’t need a special rule to consider a bill, but House Rules are viewed as so inefficient and cumbersome that each bill needs its own special dispensation. And that is where the Rules Committee comes in and constructs a special rule that in essence waives House Rules. Normally, in a situation like this, the Leadership of either party, if they support what the rank and file member is trying to do, makes the amendment in order.

So this idea that the Rules Committee (an arm of Leadership) could not have made the amendment in order because they didn’t want to give “special treatment” to it is nonsense. If that is “regular order” then the Rules Committee should be disbanded completely, and the era of special rules be ended. That would actually be pretty good for America.

Furthermore, Leadership put Steve King in this position by not adding the proper language to defund Obamacare in the underlying bill, notwithstanding the fact that these sorts of riders are a matter of routine on appropriations bills. What is not routine is bringing an appropriations bill to the floor of the House without having it be considered in committee where these sorts of amendments could have been more easily included.

The plain fact of the matter is that Leadership doesn’t want a major fight to defund Obamacare on the continuing resolution and are hiding behind House Rules to save face. The continuing resolution is a must-pass bill and prime opportunity for the House to try and shut down Obamacare with its historic “power of the purse.” At least force the Democrats to use political capital to get the provision out of the bill in the Senate.

Conservatives should vote against the Leadership’s rule today and force the Rules Committee to make the King amendment in order or include the provision in underlying bill before it comes to the floor. Call your Congressmen and urge them to vote no and bring down the rule!

COMMENTS

  • Marcus_Traianus

    in issuing the new House Rules was that Obamacare would be exempt from amendment, “normal procedures, etc.

    I guess someone forgot to tell the Rules Committee? How embarrassing.

    This legislation was rammed through using every deceitful trick in the book to give an appearance of democratic process. Yet we are afraid to fight “fire with fire”?

    I guess these folks haven’t quite figured out that doing so would send a much stronger signal such tactics won’t be tolerated in the future?

    I bet next time Democrats are in control, they go back to this tactic again.

  • http://www.FranBaker.com frankieb

    The Ds rammed this legislation down the American public’s throat using, as Marcus noted above, every deceitful trick in the book. Now the Rs can’t get their act together and get this monstrosity defunded? Bull!

    It won’t do me any good to call Cleaver but I’ll give it a shot anyway.

  • earlgrey

    I called everybody, my rep, my potential future rep (after redistricting) both Rs. and Boehner’s office.

  • Old_Dominion

    the Rules Committee is hands down the most important committee in the House.

  • rorschach256

    We need to know who specifically is standing in the way of this, and we need to steamroll them. Burn down their phones. Smoke their fax machines. flood their inboxes. Make sure they know we “care”…

  • unclefred

    In addition to opposing the rule and asking that the amendment be voted on and asking for my congressman to for for the amendment, I made the point that the process by which this was done was at least as much of a problem as that it happened at all.

    “If the rules committee wanted this rule it should have been passed in the open and I should have read about it in the morning paper. You are not meeting your promise of transparency in the process by doing business the same old way”

    The aid listened without comment – but I made sure she got the point

  • scottb

    has too many rules to suit me. Put the amendment on the floor and vote on it. To hell with the rules committee and their special rules.

  • jstjoan

    http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/02/15/republicans-rebuke-effort-defund-health-care-law

    The Rules Committee’s argument is that House rules prevent “legistating” in a spending bill which is what they say King’s amendment does.

    That being said, the Rules Committee obstructionists are as follows:

    David Dreier, CA (Chairman)
    Pete Sessions (R-TX) (Vice Chair)
    Virginia Foxx (R-NC)
    Rob Bishop (R-UT)
    Rob Woodall (R-GA)
    Richard Nugent (R-FL)
    Tim Scott (R-SC)
    Daniel Webster (R-FL)

  • Stan

    I don’t understand… apparently, the GOP leadership didn’t get the message last November???

    I’m looking for the right adjectives to describe Boehener & Co… so is it “one dufus, two dufi”? Or “one dufus, to dufuses”???? ;-)

  • Stan

    I meant “… two dufuses”…

  • Wubbies World

    Oh Please!

    Do we need to actually point out to the Congress Critter Scum that this law has been ruled unconstitutional and that ruling is being ignored by this administration?

    How can unconstitutional spending be mandatory?

    Do these people really think we are this stupid?

    More purging in the primaries is needed I see. So, lets get to that I say.

  • earlgrey

    I call my husband one all the itme, and he made fun of me when I wrote in dufus, so that sticks with me a bit.

    Doofus is a rather mild term for what they are. It is lilke they just got a new car and they are afraid to shift out of 1st gear. Come on Rs.

  • http://www.realclearconservatives.com Rudy

    Obviously, John Boehner and the leadership team is afraid of confronting the Senate and Obama with a meaningful Continuing Resolution. What they want to do is throw in a few budget cuts and then compromise half of them away.

    The Republican leadership is cowardly and craven. Its business as usual with the new Republican majority. Its the same group that blew their chance last time they won the House and are proceeding to do the same this time.

  • sailingaway

    But my rep is a tool, so it likely won’t help. I’ll spread it on, though.

  • drfredc

    Get over it folks, as much as some might wish to think there is a GOP leadership, there is not — there is a GOP Losership.

    What the Losership is good at is sinking their party and nation into an ocean of debt and regulations, then sugar coating it with Obamacare because they are afraid to LEAD.

  • idahoboy

    that it was also declared constitutional by two judges so until the higher courts rule you have different rulings on the same bill.

  • Jim Tomasik

    Or is it just some of them?

  • Old_Dominion

    The Rules Committee is the one committee where the Speaker more or less hand picks everyone on it, and if you’re on it, it’s because you understand the expectation of doing what the Speaker wants. The one speaker who decided to treat the Rules Committee like every other committee was Jim Wright of Texas. After the way his speakership ended, no one decided to emulate this.

  • unclefred

    The first two ruling upheld the constitutionality of the mandate. The third held the mandate unconstitutional but severed that ruling from the rest of the law and allowed it to proceed.

    The last ruling found the las unconstitutional and that ruling is binding on the government as well as other parties to the suit. Until the matter is resolved or a stay is issued by a higher court, any spending in support of Obamacare is unconstitutional and prohibited as a matter of law. If the administration wants their spending to be legal they need either a stay or a reversal. This is truly an “outlaw” administration.

  • jtlfromfredmd

    Spoke with Admin. Assistant. She said she would relay the message. Sigh…it isn’t much fun living in one of the remaining “blue” states but, for the most part, our rep. is a fairly good conservative.

  • idiotan

    This looks like the beginning of a losing battle. All of these posts are with you Eric, the problem is; those posting are not in Washington and their emails are queued for weeks. Just Ask me. My Congresswoman and her offices are not even picking up the telephone.

  • idahoboy

    you cant simply pick out the most recent ruling and say that applies, all four rulings are on the same law, therefore you could also say that it is Constitutional since two of them ruled that way. Until a higher court sorts out the various rulings the law stands as written.

  • E Pluribus Unum

    Oh boy. I thought he was better than that.

    OK, we in Texas will deal with him.

  • E Pluribus Unum

    Oh boy. I thought he was better than that.

    OK, we in Texas will deal with him.

  • WarEagle01

    But if he’s up there playing footsy with the Democrats then he’s just as much a non-man as the rest of them. Un-frikkin-believable. What a bunch of sissified eunuchs we’ve elected. Not one red cent for the NRCC, ever.

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    The level of “fight” in the Republican House members is directly proportional to the percentage increase in participation by conservative Republicans in their local Republican Party committees in their respective congressional districts and the percentage increase in the number of precinct committeeman in those districts.

    Want your Republican House members to fight for you? Want your Democrat incumbent to fear a better, more conservative opponent in the next general election? Then YOU ?fight? for your country, too. Get to your local Party committee meeting and find out how YOU, along with other conservative Republicans, can change the outcome of the next Republican House primary election.

    If the status quo in the House Republicans’ respective congressional districts is not changing in the direction of more conservatives getting involved in the Party, all things being equal, the incumbents enjoy a better than 95 per cent chance of coasting to a win in their primary election. Change that status quo, and make them fear the possibility that they’ll face a more conservative challenger, with the backing of all the new and existing precinct committeemen, who will get out the vote for the challenger, and you might have a chance of getting them to stiffen their spines.

    In my opinion, I believe the best way to communicate your concerns to the House members is to be able to make one or the other of the following statements truthfully:

    Hello. I am a voting member of the Republican Party — a precinct committeman. And I’m recruiting every other conservative I know to become a precinct committeeman so we can organize to elect better, more conservative Party leaders, vote to endorse the best conservative in the all-important primary election — which even Rep. X has to win — and develop effective, door-to-door, voter-to-voter Get Out The Vote campaigns to make sure those conservative candidates win the primary election and then go on to win the general election. So, please ask the Congressman to support Steve King’s amendment to defund Obamacare in the coming resolution. Or else. Thank you.

    Or

    Hello. I am not yet a a voting member of the Republican Party — a precinct committeman — but I’m taking steps to become one. And I’m recruiting every other conservative I know to become a precinct committeeman so we can organize to elect better, more conservative Party leaders, vote to endorse the best conservative in the all-important primary election — which even Rep. X has to win — and develop effective, door-to-door, voter-to-voter Get Out The Vote campaigns to make sure those conservative candidates win the primary election and then go on to win the general election. So, please ask the Congressman to support Steve King’s amendment to defund Obamacare in the coming resolution. Or else. Thank you.

    Trust me, the Republican House members know the power of the precinct committeemen. Why do you think they never breathe a word about it?

    Thank you.

    For Liberty,

    ColdWarrior

  • earlgrey

    go to shelbygop.org for more information and you could become a precinct committeeman. If you live in the county that is.

  • caboose

    by the Judge in Fla. is binding. The law is unconstitutional and cannot be funded. To do so would be contempt of court and illegally defying a federal order. Unfortunately, Boehner is looking more wimpish every day. He looked and sounded like a week kneed weasel, last Sunday on NBC’s meet the press.

  • acat
  • rightwingmom52

    The office clerk listened to my comment about the rule and the fact that apparently R’s still weren’t listening to the people. I told him that we wanted ObamaCare repealed, but until then, we want it defunded. He said they had been getting a lot of calls on the rules issue. I told him everybody must be reading RS like me. He said Congressman Bachus had not stated a position on the matter yet but he would “pass on” my comments.

  • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack
  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    that Judge Vinson’s order is without effect. more later after oral surgery…

  • idahoboy

    since two other judges have ruled the same law Constitutional. The various rulings have to be dealt with.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2011/02/02/court-orders-are-orders-is-obama-administration-already-in-contempt/

    The best strategy combines the above at least until Obama asks for a sty before the March court deadline, and I doubt Vinson would grant a stay given the language in the 78-page Order. And by moving for a stay Obama would be admitting he needs a stay.

    Combine the above with a preemptive selective shutdown strategy:

    http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2011/01/17/selective-shut-down-strategy-better-than-debt-ceiling-bluff/

    Brother, I am quite ill and face oral surgery later this week and am knowcked out with pain pills now, so please carry the fight. The House is screwing up by not acknowledging the CURRENT effect of Judge Vinson’s order, which is our only way to completely end Obamacare before 2013.

    Even defunding it leaves the mandate regs in place that force private ins cos to cover certain persons and procedures and run the costs up.

    more later

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • idahoboy

    If another judge says the same law is constitutinal, then is the law valid, even though it has been declared unconstitutional by another judge. Which ruling do you go by?

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    and not enough of us have the time or inclination, apparently, to fill up the vacancies in the precinct committeeman ranks of the Republican Party. And, until we do that, which creates a threat to the reelections of all of the incumbents, we won’t get any courage out of these representatives.

    They truly do reflect, and “represent,” the American people who bothered to vote to elect them.

    We have met the enemy, and he is us.

    We have gotten the government we deserve.

    Sorry for the rant. I guess I’m coming to the conclusion that the American people are going to collectively shrug as they lose their country because they are too lazy and ignorant to do anything about it and because they still think “Aw, all that bad stuff I keep hearing about will never happen here. We’re America, after all.”

    And then it will be too late.

    Thank you.

    ColdWarrior

  • pilgrim

    Judge Vinson ruled the entire law is unconstitutional. This only needs to happen once. There is no superior ruling at judge Vinson’s level that can overturn his decision. The GOP in Congress should embrace what Vinson declared as the law of the land. For the GOP in Congress to push anything about a law that is now unconstitutional being repealed is like feeding Obama the ammo that no matter what the judge said it must really still be the law since the GOP are trying to repeal it.

  • pilgrim

    The current law of the land is that the entire law is unconstitutional and not that it stands as written. Only the US Supreme Court has the power to over turn Judge Vinson.

  • http://www.editedforbias.com editedforbias

    Not a lawyer but…I believe for the rule of law to matter each ruling must be dealt with and each court obliged. You risk contempt charges if you do not.

    In these cases, the judges that rule the law can stand, require no action. The judge that rules it unconstitutional must be obliged his ruling as well as the others.

    The other courts did not say that Obamacare was mandatory and must continue, they simply said that it could continue. Now it cannot until an appeals court issues a stay or rules. But you would have to appeal that get to that level.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • http://www.editedforbias.com editedforbias

    One reason we hate this law is that they used coersion and tactics to get it through the house and senate. They used odd rules and special sessions to pass the Senate version and update it without committee and a full re-vote in teh Senate.

    Trying to shut this down as a violation of the supreme law of the land (Constitution for those on the left) and/or defund it, should be done with a bit more class. I don’t yet see this as weakness…though I am inclined (due to history) to lean that way.

    Let’s keep the pressure on but no changing the rules in the middle of the game.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    this House seems to lack the guts to render same unnecessary.

    The strategy can still be salvaged after Obama moves for a stay and is denied or lets the time pass, BUT still, I firmly believe that if there is no actual selective govt shutdown that we win, then the wave election will have been for naught. We should be preparing the public NOW for a March shutdown due to Obama’s lawlessness and refusal to get the spending mandate from the people.

    Any compromise with Obama will be a sellout an could precipitate a financial meltdown.

  • lapert

    With all due respect, Mike is incorrect here. District court ruling are only binding precedent for the district they oversee (in this case Northern Florida), when district judges issues contradictory rulings each district has different interpretations of the law until a higher level appeals court which includes those districts rules on the matter.

  • idahoboy

    to the district that he is in correct. His ruling only applies to the circut court that he is part of correct? That is why the SCOTUS or a higher appeals court must rule on these right?

  • idahoboy

    The appeals court for the district that Juge Vinson is in can overrule him.

  • Locked and Loaded

    has not taken any position on this rules issue, or whether Obamacare should be funded. What commitment! Ever since his elitist letter trying to explain his TARP vote, I have been irked by this excuse for a representative. And now that his aide has also told me “he is not usually available to hear from his constituents,” I am really ticked. Yes, she actually said that.

    Of course, I let her know definitively what I expect him to do.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    There was justification for not seeking a stay on the first ruling since it only voided the indiv mandate to buy ins which doesn’t take effect until 2014, but Vinson voided the whole law, some features of which had taken effect.

    The concept you are referring to is when appeals on the same subject reach the Supreme Court from different federal circuits, they can combine in one appeal in order to reconcile the differing applications, but we are no where near that stage yet.

    If Obama were not appeal Judge Vinson’s order, then the other cases would be rendered moot and dismissed. I would bet all i won that Obama appeals the case.

    The issue now is the matter of whether Obama seeks a stay of the Vinson order, PENDING APPEAL.. So far he has not done so. Hence, the order that changes the status quo stands.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    there is only one case addressing same with respect to current aspects of the law. With all due respect…smile

  • lapert

    First, the 11th circuit has the first review of Judge Vinson’s ruling and can overturn it before it gets to the Supreme Court. Second, district judges rulings apply as precedent only in the district they oversee – if in another district the judge rules it constitutional that is the law in that district. And it is certainly plausible that the 4th circuit will hear the VA ruling appeals and the 11th circuit will hear this appeal and both reach contradictory conclusions leading to even more confusion and lack of direction for the states until the Supreme Court rules (which is why many are asking for an expedited appeal directly to them).

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    but it is true that its circuit court could overturn it or issue a stay. But Obama has not asked for a stay from either Judge Vinson or his circuit court of appeals.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    from complying with court orders just because another court has issued a ruling that requires no action. For automatic stays see bankruptcy court. This case is not in bankruptcy court…smile.

  • lapert

    that this only precludes enforcing implementation for those involved in the suit (the 26 state governments).

  • idahoboy

    and rules that this is Constitutinal, that doesnt matter because Vinson allready ruled that it is not Consitutional. Did I get that right?

  • kowalski

    And we wonder why people don’t trust the government. Because it can just do whatever it wants.

    But the thing that people need to understand about the House of Representatives is that every major bill that comes to the floor is governed by a ?special rule? that sets the parameters of the debate and the amendment process for that bill. You don?t need a special rule to consider a bill, but House Rules are viewed as so inefficient and cumbersome that each bill needs its own special dispensation. And that is where the Rules Committee comes in and constructs a special rule that in essence waives House Rules. Normally, in a situation like this, the Leadership of either party, if they support what the rank and file member is trying to do, makes the amendment in order.

    Since virtually nobody in America understand the way the Congress works, it’s very little surprise that they continue to thrash around while both parties work the system they’ve constructed.

    America’s government has been take from its people by a combination of apathy and deliberate malfeasance. Who knows what it’s going to take to change that. It surely isn’t more money for education, based on how much we spend per pupil.

    The answer is: “Failure.”

    That is what is going to change the tune. And it’s going to be ugly.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    and tell them what they want to hear. Many have done so and were so happy for a time, until they lost the case!

    smile

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    his circuit court of appeals and there is a 30-45 day deadline for Obama to file for a stay with them..

  • klondike

    I thought you might be interested in Ken Cuccinelli’s latest report and his comments on Judge Vinson’s ruling:

    Dear Friends,

    I wanted to give you a breakdown of the spectacular ruling in Florida in the healthcare case on January 31st. The result was the second court to rule the individual mandate unconstitutional – the first being our case in Virginia. This has helped to build more momentum for those of us standing against the federal healthcare law.

    There are three parts to the Florida ruling, two legal issues plus the remedy. But first, I want to note that this ruling is the most comprehensive ruling yet in this case. The Judge walked through the history of the commerce clause, the history of Supreme Court rulings related to the commerce clause, and then applied that background to the case at hand. If you’re willing to read about 75 pages, this opinion will fully educate you on all of the relevant areas of knowledge at issue in this case.

    In the Florida case, there are 26 states as plaintiffs, plus the NFIB and two of their members as individuals.

    The three parts of the Florida ruling are: 1) a coercion claim the plaintiffs brought regarding the Medicare/Medicaid provisions of the bill; 2) the individual mandate; and 3) addressing the remedy in light of holding the individual mandate unconstitutional.

    Coercion

    In a case called South Dakota v. Dole, the Supreme Court stated that it was possible that the Court could block a law if it was so coercive of states that it was the equivalent of ordering the state(s) to undertake something the federal government wouldn’t normally have the power to order such a state to do. However, while the Supreme Court said that a coercion argument was theoretically possible, it has never yet found a case where such coercion existed.

    That brings us to the Florida healthcare case. In that case, the plaintiffs alleged that the massive increases to Medicare and Medicaid under the federal healthcare law amounted to coercion. The rationale for this was that after 45 years of those two programs being in effect, that such a massive increase in the programs amounted to coercion.

    The problem for the states with this argument was that Medicare and Medicaid are both voluntary programs, i.e., the states can pull out of the programs. The consequence of such a pullout would be a complete loss of the federal funds associated with the programs. The states argued that after 45 years of integration of Medicare and Medicaid (and the federal monies) with the states’ provision of medical care to their citizens, that the massive and sudden increases in the requirements of the states under those programs amounted to coercion.

    The court in Florida flatly rejected this claim by the states, relying on the fact that the programs are still voluntary. The Judge noted that even though there’s a lot of money to lose and that the programs have been in place for a long time, they are still in fact voluntary.

    So, we still don’t have a finding of coercion of states under the theory articulated in South Dakota v. Dole, but fortunately the states in Florida also argued that the individual mandate is unconstitutional.

    Individual Mandate

    The Florida ruling on the individual mandate closely tracked the Virginia ruling in December. Both sides made the same arguments as in the Virginia case, and the Judge exhaustively analyzed those arguments and concluded that the individual mandate is unconstitutional.

    The Judge exhaustively walked through the history of the Commerce Clause and the key cases that together define the outer limits of Commerce Clause jurisprudence.

    Judge Vinson noted that all cases related to the commerce clause up until this case have addressed activities, while this case revolves around regulating inactivity, i.e., not buying health insurance. He said: “…in every one of the cases … there has always been clear and inarguable activity.”

    In my mind, this gets to the most serious threat to liberty posed by the federal healthcare law: the supposed authority of the federal government to order you to buy the chosen product of the then-ruling majority.

    As I have noted many times, not even King George III and his Parliament went so far as to order American colonists to buy British goods, yet our President and the last Congress believed that our federal government has that power. Stunning.

    And in what will be the Tea Party’s favorite quote, along the lines of King George… the Judge also said the following:

    “It is difficult to imagine that a nation which began, at least in part, as the result of opposition to a British mandate giving the East India Company a monopoly and imposing a nominal tax on all tea sold in America would have set out to create a government with the power to force people to buy tea in a the first place. If Congress can penalize a passive individual for failing to engage in commerce, the enumeration of powers in the Constitution would have been in vain for it would be difficult to perceive any limitation on federal power.”

    The reason that all the Supreme Court’s previous cases have been limited to regulating activity is because no Congress has ever before even attempted to regulate inactivity. This led the Judge to say: “…there is a simple and rather obvious reason why the Supreme Court has never distinguished between activity and inactivity before: it has not been called upon to consider the issue because, until now, Congress had never attempted to exercise its Commerce Clause power in such a way before.”

    Ouch.

    The federal government, in its grasping efforts to try to argue that this case can be treated uniquely, i.e., it isn’t bound by traditional legal constraints, has continuously argued that the healthcare market is unique. Because, you see, we will all need healthcare at some point.

    Um, dinner anyone?

    The judge rejected the ‘uniqueness’ argument, citing to food, transportation and shelter. For myself, if I have to pick between food and healthcare for the rest of my life, I’ll take food, thank you very much.

    Finally, being (I would like to think) a logical person, I appreciate logical discussion, and Judge Vinson obliged people like me. Saying, “The important distinction is that ‘economic decisions’ are a much broader and far-reaching category than are ‘activities that substantially affect interstate commerce.’ While the latter necessarily encompasses the first, the reverse is not true. ‘Economic’ cannot be equated to ‘commerce.’ And ‘decisions’ cannot be equated to ‘activities.’ Every person throughout the course of his or her life makes hundreds or even thousands of life decisions that involve the same general sort of thought process that the defendants maintain is ‘economic activity.’ There will be no stopping point if that should be deemed the equivalent of activity for Commerce Clause purposes.”

    Judge Vinson also found that the Necessary & Proper Clause cannot save the individual mandate.

    Having found the individual mandate to be unconstitutional, Judge Vinson then turned to the proper remedy. And it is in the remedy where Judge Vinson went beyond the Virginia ruling in December.

    Remedy-Severance

    In the most sweeping ruling to date, Judge Vinson ruled that because of the central importance of the individual mandate in the federal healthcare bill, the unconstitutionality of the individual mandate doomed the entire law. Thus, he declared the entire law to be invalid and of no effect. He further stated that he expected federal officials to honor his ruling, i.e., to cease implementing the law. Of course, it didn’t take those federal officials very long to start making public statements indicating that they have no intention of honoring Judge Vinson’s ruling. However, his ruling has led a number of states to cease implementation of the law. This will all be an interesting side show as we work our way toward a final ruling from the Supreme Court.

    An important and unusual aspect of the remedy question is the lack of what is called a “severance clause” in the healthcare bill. A severance clause is found in many contracts and pieces of legislation. It is called a ‘severance clause’ because it says that if any part of a contract or law is found unenforceable (e.g., unconstitutional) then that part of the contract or law – and all elements dependent on that part – are severed out of the contract or law, with all the remaining parts continuing in full force and effect.

    Now, let me correct the most common misconception folks have on this subject, and pardon me in advance for speaking in a double negative. Just because a contract or law does not have a severance clause, does not mean that the whole contract or law is automatically stricken due to the absence of such a clause when some part of the contract or law is found unenforceable. This is important in this case.

    The absence of a severance clause opens the door to the whole law being invalidated, but it does not automatically mean that that will always (or even often) be the outcome following a finding of unconstitutionality of some part of a law.

    In fact, even in the absence of a severance clause, severance is still the judicially preferred course. In this case, the feds conceded in their briefs that if the individual mandate was found unconstitutional, then all of the insurance elements of the law would have to fall with the mandate. The reason for this was that the insurance market itself couldn’t sustain the requirements like community issue, no lifetime caps, etc. without the individual mandate. This is part of why the feds referred to the the individual mandate as the “linchpin” of the legislation; because without it, the rest of the insurance scheme does not work.

    So, ordinarily, a court would try to sever out an offending provision along with all of the other portions of the law that couldn’t properly function absent the offending provision. This is what the feds are aiming for in the healthcare case if they lose on the individual mandate. It is what the judge in our case in Virginia intended to apply as a remedy (he made a drafting error, so it would need to be fixed at the appellate level anyway).

    The alternative to severing is what is called the “legislative bargain” theory. In those instances when the offending provision is so central to the legislation that it would not have passed without such provision, then the proper course is to strike the entire law. Under circumstances where Congress would not have passed the statute without the offending provision, it is deemed an act of judicial restraint not to rewrite as a law that separate portion of a statute that remains after severing the critical offending provision.

    It is Virginia’s position that if there was ever a situation when it can be known that a law would not pass absent a particular provision, it is the federal healthcare bill absent the individual mandate. This is true for several reasons.

    First, as you may recall, the individual mandate was a fallback position from the so-called ‘public option.’ Second, the bill was never before any committee in an amendable form in either the Senate or the House combined with the fact that it did not have a single vote to spare in the Senate and only three to spare out of over 400 in the House.

    I cannot name another bill that went through both houses of Congress in its final form without going through committees in either body, much less having such a thin margin for passage.

    Recall that the Senate substituted what became the final bill on the Senate floor without further amendments and passed it late at night on Christmas Eve of 2009 (can you say ‘Santa, coal for 60 Senators please?’). It passed with 60 votes, thereby surviving a potential filibuster no votes to spare.

    The following month, Scott Brown was elected to the U.S. Senate from Massachusetts! Needless, to say, on Christmas Eve, no one was thinking that in a month there would be a Republican from Massachusetts. And his arrival in the Senate foreclosed the Dems’ ability to amend the bill in the House because if the bill was amended it would have to go back to the Senate where the GOP could now kill it with a filibuster.

    Thus, the bill was never before any House committee that could do anything except talk about it, i.e., they couldn’t amend it. And then of course, late on March 21, 2010, the House passed the unamended bill with three votes to spare, with the President signing it two days later on March 23rd.

    As I said, if ever there was a bill that should come tumbling down with its main provision, this is it.

    Hurry Up!

    Due to the incredible costs the healthcare is imposing already, combined with its very uncertain future, Virginia has requested the U.S. Supreme Court to do something that it only does once or twice a decade – we have asked the Supreme Court to expedite this case and skip the appellate courts.

    Unlike many other cases, in this case there is not much to be developed at the appellate level. It will be essentially the same arguments that were heard in the district court all over again. So, if that’s the case, and we all know the Supreme Court is going to ultimately decide the case, why not ask them to take it on an accelerated basis?

    There being no good reason to wait that we could come up, with proceeded to make the request. The cases now pending would seem to be considerably more important than many that the Supreme Court has expedited in the last few decades, but it is 100% discretionary to the Supreme Court, so we’ll have to see what they do!

    That’s the update for now, I hope you’ve found this helpful.

    ———————

    He will be testifying tomorrow morning before the House Judiciary Committee beginning at 9:30 a.m. EST. It will be covered on C-SPAN and will be carried live on http://judiciary.house.gov/.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    the Govt’s claim that it need not comply given the absence of an injunction. Of course, since Judge Vinson issued a final order, there was no need for an injunction, which would have been needed only in the case of a preliminary ruling on a motion for a writ of mandamus.

    see here

    http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2011/02/02/court-orders-are-orders-is-obama-administration-already-in-contempt/

    Yes, the odds are that the SCOTUS will have the final say, but the world turns in the meantime, and as of now, the law is void. The moment of truth as to whether the law can be implemented pending appeals will be when Obama does or does not file for a stay before the March deadline.

  • klondike

    I tend to agree with you – Obama will file a Motion to Stay. It IS his “legacy legislation,” after all.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    not file for a stay, and in filing for the stay, he will be admitting he needs a stay, which is obvious.

  • Michael Dugas

    I’ve come to expect “squishy” responses from Buchanan. He uses polls to “think” and decide what to do. He sends out more polls through emails than any pol I’ve ever experienced and about almost any subject. His name wasn’t on the letter to House Leadership demanding they stick to the 100 billion in cuts, he’s never out in front of anything. His Reps answer was that the Congressman hasn’t gone public with his thoughts on this issue but he is always eager to hear from his constituents.

  • carolina

    Do we know when the 45 days are up?

  • carolina

    Do we know when the 45 days are up?

  • nessa

    The law is officially unconstitutional, NOT spending money we don’t have seems the intelligent thing to do…

  • lineholder

    on so many other things. What happens if he doesn’t file for a stay? Does this mean that it doesn’t have to go to the SC?

  • avgjo

    about ‘doing something’. Just so you’ll know, I went back and confirmed that all the PC slots in my county are full.

    Is it possible to be a PC in a different county? Thanks.

  • avgjo

    about ‘doing something’. Just so you’ll know, I went back and confirmed that all the PC slots in my county are full.

    Is it possible to be a PC in a different county? Thanks.

  • carolina
  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Congress, states and ins cos should file motions with Judge Vinson asking that Obama and HHS be found in contempt, for damages they have incurred in complying with the unjust law since the date of the first order of Jan 31; and for a writ of mandamus prohibiting Obama and HHS from taking any further action in furtherance of the voided law.

    I suspect that Obama will file for a stay and will file an appeal on the merits to the circuit court of appeals.

  • lineholder
  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    just because all of the slots happened to be filled right now will not prevent you from attending your meetings and volunteering to be an “assistant” to a PC or otherwise help out your local committee.

    Your only limitation is your imagination.

    Thanks for getting into the real ball game.

    Once an opening happens (people move, drop out, pass away, etc.) you’ll be in the right spot to be appointed to fill the vacancy!

    Good luck and I hope you will write a Diary about your experiences.

    Best regards,

    ColdWarrior

  • bobmontgomery

    …..and Obama is asking Congress to reduce our army of soldiers, he is asking it to increase the army of IRS agents to deal with Obamacare.

    http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/02/15/healthcare-reform-law-requires-new-irs-army-of-1054

  • dcgator

    http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/02/15/republicans-rebuke-effort-defund-health-care-law

    EVERY Republican Congressman on the Rules Committee wants to defund Obamacare. There isn’t a SINGLE one who thinks it should continue.

    My personal favorite was the commenter who said Virginia Foxx wasnt being conservative…uh…is that possible? Read the story of the open hearing (which mind you, the Rules committee wasn’t open to the public under the Democrats)

    Do all of you forget when the Democrats were steamrolling bills and changing the rules when they were in control…sometimes at 3am or “deem and pass”? A vote on defunding ObamaCARE will occur, allowing this amendment would have completely gone against the Republican pledge to run a respectful House of Representatives, unlike what the Democrats did for four years.

    Yes, we need to defund Obamacare…but we shouldnt stoop to the Democrats level to do so. Period.

  • Joe Cor

    at least according to the article you linked to. King’s ammendment looked like the best way to go to get Obamacare defunded. It appears that Republicans let a technicality stand in the way of defunding it. That isn’t being high-minded, in my opinion. It looks more like what in the Catholic tradition is called scrupulosity. They allowed a technicality, and an excessively literal adherance to rules, to give Nancy her sneaky, back-door way to keep the bill from being killed. Every rule has exceptions; to let this rule stand in the way of defunding Obamacare seems like letting your house burn down because the only extinguisher you could find had an expired sticker on it. I certainly hope I’m wrong.

  • WarEagle01

    for the next two years, then we are doomed. The Democrats bring cannon to a knife fight. Our Republican “representatives” bring stilettos (heels, not knives). They might as well just give it all back.

  • izoneguy

    a government shutdown is necessary.
    Just gridlock it up.
    The American people need a break from the government.

  • avgjo

    I like the idea about helping out at the local committee. It’s the usual batch of local lowlives which have given the GOP a bad name, so I might stir the pot and get kicked out, but at least i’ll have broached the issues that need to be. Things are never quite the same after someone says what everyone else has been thinking but no one has the guts to say.

    Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll do my best and that’ll give me good diary material.

  • avgjo

    I like the idea about helping out at the local committee. It’s the usual batch of local lowlives which have given the GOP a bad name, so I might stir the pot and get kicked out, but at least i’ll have broached the issues that need to be. Things are never quite the same after someone says what everyone else has been thinking but no one has the guts to say.

    Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll do my best and that’ll give me good diary material.

  • jgwheeler

    that a ruling or legal holding from a District Court in the 11th Circuit, that has not been addressed by the U.S. Supreme Court, would be binding on a District Court located in a different circuit that has not ruled on the issue are you?

    That seems to be what you’re saying. I agree that enforcing the law in the 11th Circuit (or in any of the states who were parties to the action) would be problematic.

    Do you have some specific authority that stands for the proposition that a holding in one circuit is binding on the United States in another circuit, but with a different party? That seems to me like non-mutual offensive collateral estoppel, which can’t be used against the U.S. government.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • jgwheeler

    To enforce that, across Circuits, against one party, but with a potentially different plaintiff (e.g. a state, outside the 11th Circuit, that was not a party to the action Judge Vinson heard) just because you had the same defendant in the actions (the U.S., et al) would seem to be an application of non-mutual offensive collateral estoppel, which – again – does not apply when the U.S. is a party to an action.

    For my own edification, I would like to read a case or authority that stands for that proposition, as I’m not aware of any. Do you have a case cite, or a rule, that stands for that proposition?

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2011/02/02/court-orders-are-orders-is-obama-administration-already-in-contempt/

    My opinion informed by 20+ years of scores of federal court trials and appeals is not swayed by your extensive case authority of jg v wheeler and its shepherds progeny…smile

    Hint: Given the nature if the decision, its “enforcement” against the defendant satisfies.

    And see also Hugh Hewitt’s blog and scroll down. See also Bench Memos and other links throughout my column and feel free to write a column refuting same rather than snide snippets of “like I said” as if you were God. Not amusing. Do the work like I have and make further communications worth my while.

    smile

  • pilgrim
  • jgwheeler

    And nicely I might add. I didn’t ask for your resume and your unamed “scores” of federal trials, not did I ask for one of your blogs where you don’t make legal CITE ONE, either. And I certainly didn’t start with personal comments you and your case or career progeny.

    But as you’ve decided to take that low road. Do let me respond in kind. smile.

    As it is, I happen to be licensed in two states, and in federal court in one of them. I was genuinely curious to learn about that proposition. I had not heard of the idea of a single District Court judge’s holding being binding across the entire country based upon nothing more than the fact that a single defendant has a presence across the Circuits. Indeed, under what passes for your “legal analysis” there could never be a split in authority between circuits when the U.S. is a party to a case. And that is most certainly not true.

    The simple fact is, the reason you don’t cite to anything other than your resume for that legal proposition, is that you don’t have any legal authority for that position. In simpler language. You’re wrong. You simply spouted off without getting your ducks in line. If it is so settled, then you should have easily been able to provide a case, I could have said thank you, and moved on.

    Instead, you spout off with snarky comments that would get most of us banned here (and I fully expect I will get banned for standing up to you and returning it in kind).

    But you know you have no legal authority for that, which is why you have to respond the way you did.

  • jgwheeler

    That was meant for Mike Devine above, not you. Don’t know why it posted that way. But, Worcester v. Georgia is a U.S. Supreme Court case, so it is obviously binding across the country.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I wrote an extensive column on the matter with extensive cites (hence, we are not similarly situated with respect to this matter), but it is axiomatic that court orders are orders to the parties and that Obama would be in contempt if HHS were to violate the order against the 26 states that were plaintiffs and within the territorial jurisdiction of the court. None of the legal columnists I have cited and cite below felt it necessary in a legal column to cite authority for such a basic proposition.

    As Pilgrim’s citation indicates, as well as the cites I have made, this is a fairly unique case, but given my experience with soc sec DIB cases and orders against HHS on matters that other district courts and circuits have differed on, I know that orders do apply to the parties and the jurisdiction where orders are issues, absent stays.

    Sorry if I read your tone wrong, but I don’t like short and seemingly smart alecky subject lines like yours, and especially when accompanied by demands for citations and case authority from one that cites none. Its easy to take pot shots from the peanut gallery at those that have obviously done a lot of work. Moreover, it was obvious that you have not read all of my comments and extensively researched column.

    That said, I apologize if I read your tone wrongly. Cool?

    See also

    http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/florida-ruling-requires-government-to-stop-implementing-obamacare/

    Now, Judge Vinson himself or the Eleventh Circuit (or even the Supreme Court) may issue an emergency stay of this or any other part of the ruling, but as of right now, the federal government must stop implementing Obamacare.

    http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/after-florida-what%E2%80%99s-to-be-done-about-obamacare/

    The Obama administration has thus far shown no inclination to ?adhere to the law as declared by the court.? Nor has the administration thus far sought to stay any practical effects of the court?s ruling.

    Just what those effects may be is what is unclear, leading to the confusion. It would seem, at a minimum, that the parties to the suit are bound by the judgment. If so, at the least, the government has no authority to implement the statute within the jurisdiction of the Northern District of Florida.

    http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/obamacare-after-judge-vinsons-ruling/

    ffect of Judge Vinson’s declaring ObamaCare unconstitutional — whatever it may be — it is reasonable to argue that the 26 plaintiff states in the Florida case need not, for now, take any action mandated by the statute.

    http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/obamacare-falls/

    What’s more, it appears that the Obama administration must seek intervention from a higher court if it wants to keep implementing ObamaCare. Even though Vinson declined to issue an injunction forbidding the administration to implement the law, he did so because of:

    a long-standing presumption “that officials of the Executive Branch will adhere to the law as declared by the court. As a result, the declaratory judgment is the functional equivalent of an injunction”…”declaratory judgment is, in a context such as this where federal officers are defendants, the practical equivalent of specific relief such as an injunction”…Thus, the award of declaratory relief is adequate and separate injunctive relief is not necessary.

    In other words, absent intervention from a higher court, HHS must now sit on its hands.

    Further briefing will require the payment of a retainer beyond the compensation already received from publishers!

    smile

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    that Obama would be in contempt if it violates the court order and continues to implement the law as implementation necessarily involves general implementation that would apply to all states. The order applies to HHS and its activities.

    see more below or above

    By the way, you were quite repetitive in your claims that I have no authority. Couldn’t that have been stated once? Especially given your reliance solely on the authority of In re jgwheeler?

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    it applied to HHS, not across all circuit lines and earlier I also stated that in a case such as this, that circuit lines would not matter on the matter of contempt given the nature of the work by HHS on the law that is applicable to all, incl Florida and that circuit.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I was saying but didn’t. Read man. Some people are just so anxious to disagree that they can’t take yes for an answer.

    As a young lawyer, my partner said to always leave the courtroom quickly after a favorable judgment before your client pisses off the judge!

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I would welcome a brief from you on the actual subject of my column as opposed to the new strawman question you erected as to enforcement across circuit court lines and would suggest that the preponderance of the evidence, given my actual, well-researched column and comments, would suggest that you are the one that spouted off with snark. Not I.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    the 26 states. And that any work to implement the law would be in contempt of court.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • jgwheeler

    I did not make it “about us” I simply asked for some legal authority as to why a Florida District Court’s ruling would prohibit the administration from enforcing the law in a state that was not a party to the action, and that was not in the Northern District of Florida or even the 11th Circuit (e.g. could they enforce part of it against an entity in California).

    YOU were the one who responded with this little personal nugget:

    “My opinion informed by 20+ years of scores of federal court trials and appeals is not swayed by your extensive case authority of jg v wheeler and its shepherds progeny?smile.”

    Putting a “smile” at the end of it, does not make it any less personal, nor any less snarky. So I submit, if you didn’t want me to respond the way I did, then perhaps you shouldn’t have given in to that impulse that made you think that somebody should just roll over for something like that.

    So you are hardly in a position to be saying let’s “stick to the issues.” It seems to me if you really wanted to stick to the issues, you would have checked the snarky comments at the door. And you STILL have to get your little personal attacks in, such as this closing gem:

    “As a young lawyer, my partner said to always leave the courtroom quickly after a favorable judgment before your client pisses off the judge!”

    You would also not assume I simply want to argue when all I really wanted to do was read some positive legal authority that stands for the proposition that Obama can’t enforce this anywhere in the country due to Judge Vinson’s ruling.

    But I did read your blog. I also read the Cato reports. And again, not ONE legal cite to stand for the proposition that this administration is prohibited from enforcing this anywhere but the party states or the ND of Florida. Indeed, one of those Cato articles raised the very question I was asking about what happens in the rest of the country, and basically said “Who knows?”

    Now you say that wasn’t the point, that I made an assumption. But I read your blog entry and it starts with:

    “Judge Roger Vinson?s ?Order Granting Summary Judgment? to those seeking to declare ObamaCare unconstitutional, became the LAW OF THE LAND upon its filing with the Clerk of Court for the Pensacola Division of the United State District Court for the Northern District of Florida on Monday, January 31, 2011.” (my emphasis added).

    Exactly what does that phrase Law of the Land mean, if not the entire US? That phrase has an accepted meaning – across the land. It’s more than reasonable for me to have believed you meant to assign that phrase its ordinary meaning. And nowhere in that diary entry did you ever even hint you meant that phrase to mean anything else.

    So if you now say that it’s limited to the party states and the N.D. of Florida, fine. But I think you can understand why somebody who read your diary would believe its unenforceable across the country.

    And you know what? It may very well be unenforceable. I’m just not aware of any legal authority to say that it is, other than offensive non-mutual issue preclusion doesn’t apply to the federal government or its agencies. That’s why I asked the question.

    You asked about my cites, but the thing is, I never once made a proposition or assertion. I simply asked a question, and asked for legal authority for a position it appeared you had taken. I had no burden of proof in that matter.

  • jgwheeler

    You shouldn’t make the assumption that simply because you’ve written about this, that somebody else hasn’t read the opinions, the arguments of both sides, and followed the cases as they’ve been filed and litigated.

    The idea that because you’ve written about, or that you’ve practiced for a certain number of years make you, what was your phrase “not similarly situated” is nothing more than a logical fallacy of an appeal to authority.

    I simply would like to review legal authority, as that phrase is used in the legal profession.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    have made given that the whole purpose of my column was to support the proposition that Obama’s HHS would be in contempt of court if it violated Vinson’s Order in continued implementation of ObamaCare before the issuance of a stay and that the GOP House should use that fact to call on Obama to direct his employees to cease and desist from such implementation.

    I guess I could have been more clear if I had first read your mind before writing the column and had I known that an OCD lurker was going to go off like this with a “like I said” snark job.

    So, if you will permit me to end my participation in your inferiority complex, let me say:

    Like I said!

    frown

    PS I know how to reach closure here at Redstate. Prepare for crickets to any more of your diatribes unless you write a column on substance and not a semantic exercise in parsing from the peanut gallery.

  • E Pluribus Unum

    And yes, I am totally on board with the 2-prong strategy you are advocating.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • jgwheeler

    Go ahead and walk it back as far as you want. Do you realize where you are now? “Law of the Land” doesn’t mean what most people think it means. The simple fact is, that you spouted off without having your ducks in line, a person asked you a question about it. So you huffed and puffed because you could not back up your claims when somebody asked about them,.

    Now you are asking us to believe that you mean “Law of the Land” in a different way than everybody on the planet understands that phrase.

    The simple fact here, is that not only do you embarrass yourself with claims you simply cannot back up, you’ve also embarrassed Redstate because they trusted you and front paged your articles.

    So you are doing what every person in the world does when they are caught spouting off. Feigned outrage, huff and puff, etc.

    But the simple, unalterable fact is that you took a position, had no authority to back it up other than your resume, and Redstate published it

    You know it, I know it, and anybody with even a modicum of legal training knows it.

    Love to meet you in court someday “-)