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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Thor’s Hammer + Releasing the Kraken

I have been moving this week and the site has descended into chaos in the comments.

There are multiple petitions by many of you, the diarists, readers, and commenters of this site, to disband the recommended diaries list because it is being gamed by a number of diarists at the expense of new and, frankly, quality non-conspiratorial material.

Being Scandinavian, let me introduce you to Thor’s Hammer, which I now am going to wield in an awesome manner.

A few accounts will cease to work at RedState effective in the next five minutes.

Likewise, being a fan of Greek mythology, you should know that I’m going to be away for the next 24 hours filling in for Neal Boortz and also going to a super secret meeting of the vast right wing conspiracy.

I have released the Kraken into the site. He will be returned to the watery pit from whence he came upon my return and not a minute before.

There have been a few spoiled apples in the bunch. They have harassed contributors, contributors’ employers, my employer, threatened to sue me and this site, etc. I have been super lenient. I have been patient. I have been tolerant. I have been kind.

That all ends today with no pity and little mercy.

COMMENTS

  • Scope

    There was smoke coming out of my computer screen yesterday, and it was close to exploding. BTW, what is a Kraken?

  • alvin691

    I for one am pleased with our nordic overloards

  • throwback59

    Very good, Erick.
    One “Compassionate Conservative” is enough.

  • http://erickbrockway.wordpress.com/ Erick Brockway

    And it hurts like hell when thrown.

  • http://www.erickerickson.org Erick Erickson

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraken

    More specifically:

  • acat

    Quite an interesting pairing, also.

    While the Kraken is from Greek mythos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraken) – one of their “elder gods” or titans, Mj?llnir is Norse, specifically “the hammer of Thor”. I suppose he could have replaced the Kraken with Huginn and Muninn if he’d wanted to stay purely Norse, but the Greeks don’t seem to have gone in for named weapons.

    In short, while EE is directly banning some, he’s also watching and waiting to see how we mere mortals behave. (grin)

    Mew

  • http://politicalfriendsblog.com andyd

    of showing no mercy and acting with an iron fist! Sometimes it has to be done. Good work!

  • pamela1631

    a vast right wing conspiracy also.
    Erick gets to have all the fun.

    Got any Lutfisk to go with the Kraken crackers?

  • itrytobenice

    One thing about conspiracy theories: They sure do provoke conspiracy theories.

  • aesthete

    Well played, sir.

  • http://www.criterionchemical.com Chemical Sam

    Odysseus: “Hi Honey…I’m home. Ok boys, this party’s OVER”

    Twang!…sssssthwak!…thud. Twang!…sssssthwak!…thud. Twang!…sssssthwak!…thud. Twang!…sssssthwak!…thud. Twang!…sssssthwak!…thud. Twang!…sssssthwak!…thud. Twang!…sssssthwak!…thud. Twang!…sssssthwak!…thud. Twang!…sssssthwak!…thud. Twang!…sssssthwak!…thud. Twang!…sssssthwak!…thud. Twang!…sssssthwak!…thud.

    “Miss me yet?”

  • http://pocketchangeproductions.net/ anotherindyfilmguy

    etc

  • http://dezignworx-ae.com tsquare

    Shame we can’t seem to get the GOP leadership in Washington to take those words to heart.

  • itrytobenice

    I refer to this:

    There are multiple petitions by many of you, the diarists, readers, and commenters of this site, to disband the recommended diaries list because it is being gamed by a number of diarists at the expense of new and, frankly, quality non-conspiratorial material.

    And as long as I’m griping about it, here’s your real problem with the recommended diaries list: We used to be able to get a blurb of the member diaries just like we do the front page. We could click that little link and they all came up with a top part (or the whole thing if it was a quickie) and then we could click the ‘read more’ button if we wanted to check it out, recommend it, comment on it, or what ever.

    (and of course, some people had trouble figuring it out and wore out all our mouse wheels getting through their ‘top blurb’ which was not exactly a top blurb – but at least we could still scan stuff)

    Now, all we get is a title (which never says jack crap about it) and a poster’s name, and with a couple of thousand registered users, HTH are we supposed to screen those? I mean, I know by now not to click anything by Nikitas3 because (s)he is like an internet grammar panda: comes posts and leaves. But there are lots of others that I would probably read and follow more if I could give it a quick once over before I opened it.

    And this is not some foreign idea, as we used to do it and it worked and the front page is still organized in this manner. Clicks matter and everyone knows it.

  • tankertodd

    Erick gets his hackles up and wants to go Chris Christie/Scott Walker/Maggie Thatcher up on that a$$.

    Bazinga! Someone on the Right has some cahones. Please share same with the VRRC. I for one want to see someone hit a union leader with a pie – the Dutch seem to get away with it, why not us?

  • taxpayer1234

    is Grendel. Less mythology mixing, and the two could probably understand each other.

  • taxpayer1234
  • Leon H. Wolf

    I honestly don’t remember this functionality.

  • streiff

    nt

  • itrytobenice

    at the very bottom of the member diaries list. If you opened it in a new window, it looked a lot like the front page.

    Don’t you remember Clayton (or maybe it was AdamC) complaining that people weren’t using the ‘more’ cut-off and putting their whole diaries above the fold making our roller wheels roll off into the sunset?

    It was an excellent way to screen for member diaries that were worth noting. And as I said earlier, it’s one of the reasons new writers aren’t getting the same level of interest that they used to. We can’t ‘pre-screen’ so to speak.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    It never made it to 3.0. Something about not being able to do it with WP.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    It was also a way to go back through user diaries further than the list on the right of the front page. Now, once a diary is off the FP Member Diaries list, it’s only at the individual’s diary page. There’s no way to get a list beyond what’s on the FP for all members. I remember a big discussion about it while testing the beta version, but apparently there was just no way to duplicate it with WordPress.

  • Leon H. Wolf

    It was a thing where you could load the diaries section as opposed to the front page. Not like a preview window but like a completely different view of RS.

    We had that in RS 1, too.

  • itrytobenice

    And it was also on RS1

  • http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/pages/The-Reagan-Files/144699382218118 hardcore-prep

    I think people were being disrespectful, but please don’t get rid of the recommended diaries, as I assume that you’re going to get rid of the diaries section, too. Is that right? I hope not. I contribute and want to move up the chain. I hope that opportunity exists indefinitely.

    So, you’re telling me that Erick Erickson is a Scandinavian name? Get outta here! :)

  • E Pluribus Unum

    Good bye cruel world.

    (etc.)

    You have got to be kidding me, Erick. “Gamed by a number of diarists”? What blather.

    Is this your idea of leadership? Are you now taking lessons in leadership from Leon “Captain Kneepants” Wolf on how to lead a movement/blogsite/community? Yeah, because if his outstanding leadership in your absence, we are where we are. You have been MIA since the day you took that radio show. You have left the hyenas in charge, and they’ve been laying waste to this site, not only the user community but the center column as well, like vagrants at the PriceMart underwear bins.

    Now, instead of evaluating things for yourself, you have listened to the counsel of the same idiots that started and sustained all the discord between your Front Page (FP) editors and the user community. The primary idiots are named Leon Wolf and Bill S. They seem to have alot of support of other FPs like Lori Z to name one, so I find a hard time coming away with any respect for the group as a whole. And why Thomas Crown decided to spend 48 hours destroying his fantastic legacy at RedState, I have no idea. For the purpose of wading into *this* comparatively insignificant affair. That, I do not understand. Thomas, I don’t get that.

    A good leader would have (a) picked wiser counsel, and (b) confirmed for himself before accusing scores of good, honest, regular conservative people — troops under your command, more or less — of being dishonest and of low character.

    And it’s pretty rich coming from the front page, any talk of conspiracy theories. Your people are the King Kong of stark-raving mad paranoid conspiracy theorists. You and some of your FP’s have let this stupid notion fester and simmer to the point where you can’t function until you’ve found, exposed and punished the grassy knoll shooter, the shooter from atop the Triple Underpass, the Three Tramps, Badge Man, and the guy in the drain pipe too.

    You just could not let the user community alone. Had to purge, and along the way, insult the character and intelligence of most of your most loyal and productive community people. You know and I know that if there were such a cabal, I would be in a position to see it, if not actually be involved or lead it myself. There is no such conspiracy. Call me a liar. I call you and and your people lawyers.

    I, and many of us here, have been aware for years the general opinion held by your FPs of the diary class around here. They’re not subtle. They’re also pretty smug, considering most of them barely trouble themselves to post more than once a month, or otherwise lift a finger to move the conservative cause forward. How many of your FPs are precinct captains anyway? Just asking, LOL.

    So…. I have had my say. Do what you will to me, Haman. I shall not bow to you. Nor to your crummy little toadies.

  • ntrepid

    Not sure what this is all about…just glad my account is still working.

    Ntrepid
    (Tacitus Carry-Over/ Transplant)

  • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison
  • KC

    nt

  • lineholder

    when you say “get rid of the diaries section”, are you referring to the members diaries? What would cause you to believe that this might happen?

  • nilram

    I was thinking about this earlier and came up with the following suggestion:

    Assign each user points. When a user recommends a diary, his point total will be added to the diary’s recommend total. So that users with more points will have more weight to their recommendations.

    More specifically, I was thinking each user should gain one point per day up to a maximum of say 100. When said user recommends a diary he loses 7 points so it will take a week to “recover” and I was thinking new accounts would get 50 points.

    For example user RSjunkie hasn’t recommended in a while and has 100 points. He recommends GreatDiary. GreatDiary no has 100 points added to its recommend total and RSjunkie loses 7 points and has 93 left. If he recommends another diary on the same day, it will only get 93 points (and RSjunkie will be down to 86). But if RSjunkie waits 2 days, he will get 2more points for a total of 95 and if he waits a week he’ll be back to the full 100.

    There also needs to be a minimum of say 1 point. I don’t think it’s desirable for users to have zero on negative points.

    The advantage is it will make recommend trading harder as the more a user recommends, the more worthless his recommends become. So someone who recommends every diary would have very little influence on the recommended diary list while those who recommend rarely would have a large influence.

    Of course, you could also assign user’s points for other attributes that would be advantages to the recommend system. I just can’t think of any right now.

    I don’t know how the recommend system works in practice. So I can’t say how well this would “mesh” with what already exists. But I thought I’d throw it out there.

  • Bill S
  • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander
  • Duke

    in Wisconsin.

    I think maybe Erick is channeling Scott Walker!

  • KC

    As a relative newcomer here and a virtual unknown to RS, I fully recognize (and accept) that I have little say in this issue.

    I will, however, confess it’s a bit disheartening to see my diaries scroll off the front page “list” (often in short order) without any comments. I don’t know if it’s because I’m unknown and nobody reads them – or because my writing stinks or my message sucks.

    I can accept either one of the latter with no complaints – but it would be nice if my writings had more of a chance to be read.

    I’d like to make a positive contribution here – it’s just a bit difficult without feedback.

  • earlgrey

    I have it on good authority thatr they are behind everything. .

  • http://redmeatconservative.blogspot.com/ dhorowitz3

    As a new contributing editor who was in your shoes, I will make sure to keep in eye out for your posts. As you said, the salient thing is to make a positive contribution to RS, and the conservative movement in particular.

  • lineholder

    Content was fine as far as I’m concerned. Agree with the emphasis. Small type size font bothered me a bit reading it through, but that’s just a personal thing on my part.

    Give it time. It will come. Hang in there.

    And hey, you do have 3 “recommends”. If people didn’t like it, you would definitely know around here.

  • c17wife

    I hate this new and improved redstate and haven’t been commenting for quite some time. Honestly, I rarely even read here anymore. The site is too slow and cumbersome.
    And now…I am reminded of another reason why.
    Sad, sad, sad. For over 6 years, I had come to learn and be informed. And developed web “friends” that I enjoyed interacting with regularly. Now, so many of them are gone. Silenced by choice or force.
    Frankly…it makes me ill. We are on the verge of reclaiming our country before it is totally ruined and so many of you just worry about egos, etc…It is ridiculous.
    For now, I’ll continue to stick with HA for my news, Ace for my daily hint of sarcasm, and NRO for real anaylsis. Hope y’all get this figured out and get back to the real business at hand.

  • http://www.hickpolitics.com Dave Poff (haystack)

    .

  • Bill S

    And I said this on another thread a few days ago – please, do not post diaries with non-default fonts. We really don’t like to front diaries with nonstandard fonts – it screws with the look. A lot of times it’s a result of composing posts in Word or some other editor. Best thing to do is to compose in plain text/HTML and then enter it into the WP editor that way

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    You’ve been missed, and will continue to be.

  • Tbone
  • Scope

    just throw something out there like that, and let everything hang. I know the Koch Bros are libertarians, and that is somewhat bothersome to the conservatives that are 3 legged stool conservatives. They are known to be the Republican moneybags of the right, just as Soros is the money bags of the left.

  • streiff

    no ideas. The member diaries are a significant part of the site

  • http://seekingliberty.wordpress.com fmaidment

    …but isn’t Grendel Anglo-Saxon?

    If the point is to eliminate mixing mythos, then a more logical choice would be J?rmungandr as a sea serpent or sea monster; or in terms of tasks Fenrir as a vengeful monster borne of the gods.

  • earlgrey

    didn’t see that it would be taken as something more than that.

    I don’t really see the Koch brothers as the boogeyman that the left sees them as. If you spend anytime a left wing blog, which I unfortunately did today. You would think that the Koch brothers are hiding behind every bush.

    It really wasn’t meant to be anything more than just a dumb joke. Sorry I didn’t delivery it any better.

  • graciegirl

    who wants to learn ASAP. I dream of contributing an original thought someday but you all know I am really a trench worker, not a scholar. However I do have common sense.

    I fail to see why it is unreasonable to discuss the incredible energy crunch this Administration is putting America under. Why does this have to be considered a conspiracy? How about it’s looking like a fact?

    But, hey come to Texas! It kinda feels like a conspiracy. Not only are we not drilling but it is a fact that refineries are being closed by the EPA. Reason: previous administrations allowed them to function by older, grandfathered rules that the present one refuses to follow. It’s killing us!

    And if you don’t feel that Washington has a bullseye on Texas you should have seen the busloads of people who came here in November from out of state as reported and dealtt with by the King Street Patriots in an attempt to get any BODY to vote! They say that if they can turn Texas blue then it will demoralize the rest of the Red States. I believe it.

    Now I get it that the thread went too far in the comments section so you don’t have to tell me that. And I know we do not want to be seen as a conspiracy site. But it is difficult to understand why topics that are lurking in our hearts and minds cannot simply be discussed. Don’t worry I am not talking about B&T, but something like energy.

    And while I am sticking my neck out for Neil I fail to understand why Thomas Crown, no matter how esteemed he may have been in the past, was allowed to be rude beyond any pretention of civility while the rest of us have been told to tone it down?

  • kowalski

    I haven’t been watching as closely as I probably should have been but if you’re saying this, things are probably pretty bad. So do what you have to do.

  • jaxinbotox1

    The web site has basically been nothing but ban hammer for the last year at least. I would probably say 18 months. Personally, I come here now only when another place links to it, as I personally have no faith that any thread has any veracity at all because any slight disagreement with the opinions of those with ban hammer status is a guarantee you will never see that poster ever again.

    There are no discussions here, it is all just a bunch of follow the leader and do as your told BS. I used to recommend you to friends and co workers who were looking for a good place to read about conservative issues. I have not done that in over a year now, and likely will not, unless I start actually seeing some level of disagreement in the threads being allowed.

    While it allows you to stay on topic, it is a lazy and pathetic way to get to the truth. Maybe you are just being as thorough as CPAC should have been in vetting contributing organizations. I would have spoken out against GOProud here well in advance, but I feared the ban hammer, so I just stayed quiet, and read all the, yes man replies in the threads, and watched as account after account after account met with the same fate.

    I am sorry but you have no credibility when the level of discussion becomes. I am the law, this is a fact, dissent, ban, dissent, ban, dissent, ban, dissent, ban, see I was right.

  • kowalski

    Maybe in the past year I’ve lost brain cells by pulling out hair as a result of the Obameconomy but I don’t recall that either, and I can’t see any really major changes to the site that have blipped my radar…

  • lineholder

    Believe it or not, I don’t read much of the front page stuff when I come here. I read LUR every time something he posts comes up. I read Erick’s most of the time. But it’s been folks like Vassar who have inspired me, and Kenny Solomon with reports from the middle east.

    And then we have newcomers on the scene even in the time that I’ve been here, like lithamcongal out at UCSD. A young person, conservative, packed into a liberal environment where there really isn’t much moral support to be conservative.

    Once in a while, someone will put up a diary that touches my heart, like heartlander or the diary that was up the other day about ‘onion stew” (and for the life of me I can’t recall that diarists name right now).

    We get bits and pieces of information about what is going in our nation from all over the country. It makes us seem closer, at least in spirit if not in distance.

    And occasionally we’ll get a post about something that is going on inside our country that our media isn’t telling about. Or we’ll get folks who post from other nations, such as the UK.

    It isn’t just the front page that brings them in. That may be where the most “clicks” are but that isn’t all that brings them here.

    Streiff, I think I need to back away for right now. Too much “coincidence” of the events of the weekend and the current outcomes for me to be comfortable with it.

    But I agree with what c17wife said below…we do need to get our act together and our priorities in the right place.

  • Aaron Gardner

    So, I disagree with you and this is a discussion. Are you happy now?

  • Bill S

    why you don’t frequent this site much. For someone who “doesn’t frequent the site much”, you seem to think you know an awful lot about how it functions.

  • Brian Simpson

    It does make me sad. That and new comment tracking have been my two biggest “misses” when it comes to RS 4.0.

  • jaxinbotox1

    I always thought you were one of the ban hammer wielders. I have seen you make statements that someone was about to go away or something like that.

  • jaxinbotox1

    .

  • Aaron Gardner

    Get it?

  • smagar

    I too spend a lot less time on this site than I used to, but I really miss chatting with you.

    Moderators, please pass my e-mail address to c17wife, so she and I can reconnect.

  • smagar

    I too spend a lot less time on this site than I used to, but I really miss chatting with you.

    Moderators, please pass my e-mail address to c17wife, so she and I can reconnect.

  • jayjayson

    Be an adult, talk and be respectful. Or be a child, do childish things and be forced to leave.

  • KC

    Yes, I draft my diaries in MS Word and paste them into RS. On my monitor, my diaries look no different than any others in terms of font, size etc. Could be my monitor res or browser text settings – I dunno.

    I’d like to continue using Word to compose my diaries. Should I first save as “text” format before copying into RS?

    Any help appreicated.

  • Brian Simpson

    -nt-

  • Bill S

    Not sure what that’ll do to the links, though. I’ll try to mess with it and see what works best.

    I’m not just trying to be difficult. We really do run into diaries on a regular basis that are formatted so oddly that we don’t even TRY to edit them for the front because Word mangles the HTML so horribly. One time (just this last week, in fact), I took a user diary, stuck it in a text editor, MANUALLY rebuilt all the links, and then put it back and fronted it. It took a good 10-15 mins. Most of the contributor/editors don’t have time to do that.

  • ntrepid

    ?comment, that is.

    http://archive.redstate.com/story/2006/4/21/225718/166

    Ahh, the good old days.

    I confess to near complete ignorance on the specifics of anything going on here but have often compared Redstate to the game of basketball. There may be nothing as pure, as fun, as innocent as a pick-up game of b-ball on a middle school playground somewhere in breadbasket USA but once this game is matured, developed, and refined into its ultimate incarnation ? the NBA ? it becomes grotesque and unbearable to those who loved the playground. Redstate 2006-ish was the former but it may very well be evolving into NBA territory.

    We all need to stay on this ride just as long as we see fit. Nothing lasts forever.

    Ntrepid
    Proud Redstate Member since April 2006??

  • Bill S

    Nope, save as text loses the hyperlinks.

    I’ll play around with Word a bit more and see if I can get it to spit out plain HTML without all their crap wrapped around it.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    let the browser know what the subject matter of the column is. But I always do that because I usually don’t have time to guess forever. I use the same idea for subject lines in comments as well. I also think that cryptic subject lines in relies can also come off as rude even when one doesn’t mean to be rude. Just some of the DeVine Rules of Courteous Blogging soon to be available at your local Barnes & Nobel! smile

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    than you know, and many others as well. Hope you are well.

  • klondike

    I am saddened to read diaries such as this.

    Man up, Erick, and post the names of those who have been banned and for what reason. I thought we were all on the same page as far as accountability goes. Be accountable.

  • klondike

    I am saddened to read diaries such as this.

    Man up, Erick, and post the names of those who have been banned and for what reason. I thought we were all on the same page as far as accountability goes. Be accountable.

  • IJB

    Can we please have the “Member for:…” info put back on our Profile pages?

    I know that info was taken out in a previous purge, but it is actually useful info to have, both so I know how long I’ve been around, and so I can quickly week through who are just new site-trollers.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • taxpayer1234

    Beowulf is an Anglo-Saxon tale of a Geat warrior defending his Dane friends from Grendel. The Anglo-Saxons were of Germanic and Scandinavian descent. Danes and Geats were also Scandinavian.

  • Read Chesterton

    Are you back?

    Seems I was eaten by the Kraken and spit out… and I find you over here…

  • acat

    that they abandoned because it was too complex.

    Just sayin’.. Red State gets people of varying levels of computer and internet savvy, the moderation system needs to be dead simple for the average visitor. The “Recommend” button meets this. So, do like Apple, and hide the complexity.

    Allow people to hit the “Recommend” button X times per week. Give those with an amount of insider-hood the ability to assign additional points when they seem someone whose comments are useful, who writes a good, coherent, diary, etc. The complexity still exists, it’s just in the hands of people with known techie skills.

    Also, and this is important, you won’t have to keep explaining it to newbies.

    Just a thought.

    Mew

  • The_Rebel

    My AAA auto card says I have been a loyal member for x years. What was the harm to the site resulting from this public knowledge of a member’s loyalty?

  • The_Rebel

    n/t

  • Darin_H

    I still miss the old RS 1.0, it just worked so much better, at least on the user end. Too slow to load and too troublesome to find new comments among already posted comments, I still read and occasionally post, but nothing like the first few years.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    It’s a massive hack just to get tags going sitewide.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Getting rid of the member registration date was supposed to put a stop to that.

  • itrytobenice

    I mentioned you earlier today as someone who I clicked on every time I see your name. I’d give you the link, but to do that, I’d have to get out Neil’s cheat sheet that I printed out and put in my desk…

    Suffice it to say that I’ve missed you and hope you and hubby and the kids are doing great. You’re right about the egos around here. And it would surprise you if you saw some of the old timers who are having the issues. I think maybe this volunteer blogging provokes more self-confidence than it warrants.

    With the ‘site cleanup’ going on today, I suppose I’ll drift off as well (if I don’t get banned first). The entire tenor of the site has changed since Eagle bought it. I was talking about this to hubby earlier today and came to my own conclusion. When the owners of the site are actively involved, the people with their name on it and skin in the game manage people pretty well. When the owners ask other people to volunteer to run the site for them, and the people in control don’t actually own anything, things have a tendency to deteriorate.

    I’ve noticed this in the banks I’ve worked with as well. I suppose it’s just human nature to work harder to grow something when you have the potential to financially prosper when it does so, but if you don’t have that opportunity, self-aggrandizement gets pretty attractive as an alternative.

    Oh, well. There are thousands of conservative sites out there, so it’s not like the movement as a whole will suffer if this site suffers. And Lord knows, I’m no great prize either here or in the movement.

    I just play my little piano and sing my little song. Tell everybody I said Hi. And if you ever twitter, follow me and I’ll follow you. Then we can DM each other. I’m @ALHurley.

  • Bill S

    If a new person happened to make an ill-advised comment (sometimes innocently, sometimes not), some would look and see that they had only been here briefly, and then pile on the commenter for being a short-timer troll.

  • The_Rebel

    If you have evidence that members were using this info to judge other members, then you should have banned those members instead.

  • The_Rebel

    did this quite often in banning people, but perhaps he is privy to other info about a member’s longevity.

  • Bill S
  • Bill S

    before the 24-hour waiting period was instituted. There is rarely an issue now with a brand new, less-than-a-week commenter who is just here to stir up trouble. They register, notice that they can’t comment for a day, and then forget about it.

  • Aaron Gardner

    I am sure this is all cut an dry for everyone who doesn’t realize the pains the moderators and site contributors go to to keep this site up to snuff.

    Truth is, there are more working parts than many are aware.

    For those who are complaining about site contributors, and our egos and attitudes, I will just note that each of us contributors has been subjected to some of the most vile comments that have ever appeared on this site.

    I have been called a statist, a bigot, a racist, a homophobe, a sexist, and many many more. I have also been threatened by hackers from the left and the “right” because I spoke out against GOProud.

    So, what I guess I am getting at, is that I am pretty sick and tired of the same membership who hurled these insults now being insulted that the moderators have finally had enough.

    Sorry to unload on you, but being lectured to about moderator duties, especially when I don’t have the honor of being one, gets on my last nerve.

  • acat
  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Complaints to the contact form.

  • renny

    is also Norse, so the Greek mythology is a little off, but I do not even “get” what all the brouhaha has been about this weekend and why some purging is being done.

  • The_Rebel

    but if you have been subject to such insulting and sick comments, then it’s long past the time that we stop trying to keep the peace and ban these members without further warnings, no matter their longevity or loyalty. That would send the clearest message of all to the rest of the membership. I don’t think I am alone in stating this.

  • Aaron Gardner

    ROE have to be negotiated. There is more to it than the moderators and contributors deciding they want to start banning.

    My point is that the armchair quarterbacks need to ease up and let the site management do what it needs to do.

  • Bill S

    Aaron’s right – we tried to cut back on bannings. Really. And many noticed – we heard a number of comments lamenting the fact that we weren’t quickly axing troublemakers. I think that has decisively come to an end. I doubt the trigger will be as abrupt as it was a couple of years ago, but it looks to me like the tolerance level for troublemaking is pretty low.

  • edwyrd

    but i enjoy the heck out of RS,
    i eat chocholate cake and drink milk.
    can you see the connection?
    can’t get it on NRO, plain fall asleep before i get to the comment part
    keep it up guys, i love you!
    more cake please!

  • The_Rebel

    Complaint forms are superfluous.

  • penguin2

    Now RedState has been in turmoil for several days, and obviously a lot of issues are being resolved this way. But I want to say, as someone who appreciated his diaries, and who I know was very popular among the regular folks in the community, I think we have really come to a sorrowful place today.

    On a personal note, my father-in-law is gravely ill and dying, and somehow these events here are connected for me.

    Really can’t say more. I suppose eventually the dust will settle.

  • acat

    I confused Kraken with Ketos. Don’t know how that happened… blaming lack of coffee.

    Mew

  • itrytobenice

    you brought the OLD goats out of the woodwork.

    Darin, I mentioned you in the same post that I mentioned c17. How old is your baby now? More than 1?

    I sure have missed you. And ntrepid as well. I hope everyone is still working for the conservative movement, even if you’re not here as much any more.

    I know I said it before, but I sure do miss all you guys. :-(

  • itrytobenice

    you brought the OLD goats out of the woodwork.

    Darin, I mentioned you in the same post that I mentioned c17. How old is your baby now? More than 1 of them?

    I sure have missed you. And ntrepid as well. I hope everyone is still working for the conservative movement, even if you’re not here as much any more.

    I know I said it before, but I sure do miss all you guys. :-(

  • janis

    gets banned from a place like this, where so many of the members, if not the Front Pagers, both enjoyed and were informed by his writing.

    I mourn his absence here. And, penguin, my prayers are with you and your family in your father in law’s illness. Should the worst happen and he be called home to his Lord, then know that he will once more be free from pain and disability. And if that does happen, then my prayers will be for your heart’s ease and comfort.

  • http://www.redstate.com/tnjim TNJim

    Vassar was one I’d hoped to see as a contributor one day.

    Very sorry to hear about your father-in-law, as well. Prayers up for you all.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I thought I’d give you the option if you didn’t feel sufficiently heard though :)

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    I was very annoyed by one person who accused me of several things, but then I just stopped responding to him.

    I didn’t know about the diaries thing, But then again, I haven’t posted a diary in quite a while.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    I was very annoyed by one person who accused me of several things, but then I just stopped responding to him.

    I didn’t know about the diaries thing, But then again, I haven’t posted a diary in quite a while.

  • nilram
  • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

    …in Greek mythology is the same as the robot owl’s: Hollywood.

  • swami7774

    …the clique(s) was/were very obvious, and very obviously closed to anyone who dared speak even a mildly opposing view.
    I rarely post diaries. The few times I did, I was upbraided for posting something that ” should have been posted in (xyz)”, when all I was trying to do was impart a thought or informational tidbit. Seeing that the effort was unappreciated, or met with unmerited hostility, convinced me the diary route was a waste of time.
    I commend Erick for his “spring cleaning” and hope it won’t be necessary again.

  • nilram

    I suppose you are referring to slashdot’s mod points. (I haven’t been to slashdot in years). The system I propose would have little in common with it. Mainly because the system would be hidden from the users.

    My point proposal above would be automatic the user needn’t even know that he had points or how many he had. That is if user RSJunkie had 50 points and recommended GreatDiary, GreatDiary would get 50 points and RSJunkie would lose 7. He would have no choice in the matter and not necessarily know what was going on.

    As for explaining it to newbies, I think it might be wise to point out that recommends would lose their value if used too often. But I don’t think an in depth explaination needs to be made.

    My understanding is that the recommend system that exists now is not all that simple. I fairly certain that a diary’s placement on the list is determined by more that the number of people who recommend it. I also think the algorithm is kept secret to prevent gaming. I was just suggesting a tweek that might possibly make it better and help prevent gaming.

  • c17wife

    smagar and itrytobenice can have my e-mail…also, gamecock and epu have it and know how to get in touch with me.
    Kids and I are back in WA and hubby is remote in Izmir. We have over 20+serving this country and may face forced retirement this fall thanks to this effed up administration and its minions.
    What a toilet bowl we are in as a country.
    All of you that need to hear this…check your ego. And do it quickly…we can’t afford division any longer.
    I’m also on Facebook, but keep my political commentary to a minimum for several reasons. EPU, becker, artchance, and haystack are a few of my fb friends.

  • RottDawg

    If you mouse over it and select the text, you can still read it…

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I will always treasure the RS experience for most of my time here and especially the friends I have made here. Glad we can still Read Chesterton.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    We white out comments that are obnoxious.

  • Wubbies World

    I have been at this site for over 5 years. Over the recent past, some here had become very abusive to those they had issues with here. I was subjected to it. I tried to hold my own, but rather than deal with the headache, I faded into the background. I didn’t have time to deal with the hassle of it.

    I tried to reenter the dialog stream a few times but ended up running afoul of some of the contributors here. I slipped into the background each time.

    It looks like the situation has come to a head and is finally being dealt with firmly. All I can say is thank you. You will start seeing more of me again. I am looking forward to it -again.

    One side note, I remember when Thomas Crown went on hiatus. I am really glad to see he is back as well. Thank you for coming back Thomas.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • ocleverone

    are with your father in law, you and your entire family.

  • ocleverone

    are with your father in law, you and your entire family.

  • Darin_H

    My boy just turned 2 a few weeks ago, it’s just the most amazing thing ever, children. And he is going to have a sister in about 5 more weeks. I’m so excited – and I’m already wrapped around her finger! I’m hoping to talk my poor wife into at least one more, but this pregnancy has been pretty rough for her (and she’s still the toughest person I know). The first was a breeze, and I’d like to have 3 and then maybe we’ll look into adopting another one or two after that, but I’m getting ahead of myself, ha! :)

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    Thank you so much for your family’s service and you’re all in the 908′s prayers.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • RottDawg

    and if so, may I ask why?

    My thoughts go out to your father-in-law and you Penguin.

  • http://teapartisan.wordpress.com Socrates

    Hi.

  • penguin2

    Yes, RottDawg, in answer to your question. Received an email. Some very unfortunate events have happened here.

  • aesthete

    a lot. Good to hear from you.

  • RottDawg

    Or you got an email from Vassar?

  • itrytobenice

    I’ll bet you are a wonderful dad and I’m sure you’ve found a great mama for them. It is such a blessing to know that you’re doing well with them.

    Maybe if she takes a bit of a break, she’ll want more. Take it from me, there’s nothing to make you want another baby like not having one around. I’d *love* to have more now.

    Meanwhile, I’ll say a prayer for her that this pregnancy will get easier and easier and that you’ll have a wonderful, healthy, little girl!!

    And I’ve got to tell you something really sweet that my little boy told me. We get a news flyer from a children’s home that we support (the kids’ tithe is set aside for it) and I’ve explained to them that the kids there are orphans and what that means. My little boy told me that when he grows up, he’s not going to have any kids. He’s just going to adopt those kids who don’t have a dad and be their dad.

    Isn’t that the sweetest thing you’ve ever heard?

  • NeoKong

    And had I been online when all this went down I would have defended her against Thomas Crown’s most rude and ungentlemanly attack.
    I was disappointed to see him call someone that I have personally met and whom I think is a very nice lady all those awful insults.
    He was a bully to her.
    Apparently his behavior was no big deal.

    She didn’t have to be treated like that. If her diary was so offensive then why is it still on the rec list…?

  • acat
  • Jack_Savage

    “Hello darlin’”!

    All the best to your brave family, and many thanks. Grateful for the update.

  • nilram
  • itrytobenice

    You’re another one that is a major addition to the site.

  • acat
  • acat
  • traversecityconservative

    a matter of so many posts pushes the other posts farther and farther down. I don’t think it’s always something to feel disheartened about. Sometimes there are a lot of posts going on and yours has limited time…

  • penguin2

    He was getting a 601 redigestable ERROR. Could no longer access the site.

  • Brian Simpson
  • Cheryl

    My log in still works.

    I don’t write diaries but I’m here everyday. The clique was obvious to a point I only sought out certain writers I know and enjoy reading. Not sure who got whacked but support what Erick is doing. There’s my 2 cents.

    Glad Leon Wolf is back (hope you see this, Leon).

  • mbauer

    4 years ago, at 21, I came of age politically in large part because of this site and have stayed here reading the good and bad. I look forward to someone being able to make an argument for a different way of looking at conservative principles / choices w/o being eaten alive. I am overwhelmed by the percentage of comments that contain words like stupid or idiot. It’s not that I’m offended by it. It’s that when you have to use these words to argue, you either are being lazy or have no thought out point to make.

    I want to have a legitimate debate over Mitch Daniels full body of work, not calling him a rino because of his truce and moving on.

    I want to have a legitimate debate over about 8 other presidential candidates that I feel are being passed on due to 1 or 2 not “true conservative” moment.

    Hopefully this move from E^2 ultimately deepens the level of discourse here.

    And for the record, in 2006 I was walloped by a Mr. Becker for being a Ron Paul supporter and eventually shown the way. So I’m not saying a good aggressive tuft never has its place ;)

  • traversecityconservative

    I’m pretty sure I called Erick an idiot about a year ago and I wasn’t banned. :)

  • itrytobenice

    There are *several* people on this thread, some of whom I know and like (like you, Wubbie) who are saying that they have been poorly treated.

    I know that I don’t read here near as much as I used to, but I’d like to see a link from any or all of you where I could see who, exactly, it is that is behaving with boorish behavior.

    I’m absolutely not a site moderator or anything like that, so don’t be thinking that there will be any banning or scolding, (well, maybe a bit of scolding if I’m in that mood – I am a mom, you know) but I develop my relationships here over time and I don’t want to view people with more respect than they deserve.

    Well, except for Becker and Tbone. I give them special dispensation for some reason or another. They’re like pet alligators. And since they’ve never been granted a ban hammer, they’re more like pet alligators with no bottom jaw.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    “It’s only Make Believe”

  • aesthete

    our collective screeds against The Paul have yielded some fruit :)

  • Bill S

    Apparently, Word insists on preserving the font selection, which implies a buttload of DIV tags and associated CSS stuff embedded…which, in turn, makes it a pain to edit.

    You might try OpenOffice as an alternative. In my experience it creates a much cleaner HTML file from a document.

  • traversecityconservative

    I guess I should read comments more. I missed all of the excitement. I LOVE rules though so I appreciate what Erick has done. I love boundaries. This does NOT mean that I like government regulation and taxes, just law and order. I got a little worried for a minute though because I tend to recommend stories about Herman Cain more than others :)

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    that traditionally it is Kraken and Chips. Served in a rolled up copy of the Gaurdian.

  • RottDawg

    Hope it is just a case of Kraken over stepping like he/she did with several others that it seems have gotten their accounts un-banned. It will be interesting to see who this clique consisted of that was disrespectful to new users.

  • The_Rebel

    I have seen commenters banned for much less than the behavior Mr. Crown (yeah, moderators, I know it’s “Thomas”) exhibited. But we all know that the cliques begin at the top, and if Erick really wants to improve this site, he’d better start there. Or does a former Director have free reign here?

  • proudmarinemom

    I don’t know who was in the clique. I don’t know who got banned or why. I do, however, know that I learned from every single contributor here — every single one. I am nothing– no one. Neither rich nor poor. No MBA from an ivy league school. But I can can explain cellular metabolism and Marbury v. Madison and the Second Commandment. I can hang and finish drywall, miter molding, sew draperies and bake a wicked chocolate cupcake. Otherwise, I am useless in the fight against Statism.

    The only other thing I know with certainty is that I love this country so much that if I had ten sons, I would gladly let all ten of them go to war a dozen times (I’d go too, if they’d let me) to enable America to continue to be America.

    The work we have ahead of us is far too important to be hamstrung by thin-skinned offense to the words some people write here. If you have been wounded, insulted or banished, do NOT give up the fight. Every single contributor here has something to offer our great nation. No one seeks out a place such as Red State without having made a commitment to saving our Republic.

    Stand your ground and fight. With or without Red State.

    I am on your side, cupcakes (and muskets) at the ready. God Bless every single one of you.

  • Leon H. Wolf

    Someone was kind enough to alert me to this comment, and I have seen it. Thanks!

    PS You might want to check your bed for horses’ heads an extra time tonight. It isn’t wise to praise the object of today’s Two Minutes’ Hate.

  • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

    http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810026342/video/24212700/

  • barry915barry

    Father-in-Law. I do not know you, but know of you. Wife and I will be praying for you and your family. Barry.

  • Goldwater_Conservative

    for a while, mainly because of work but also I have found myself less and less interested in coming on here and reading everything because it had become cliquey. Not only that, it seems that the only way to win these comment fights was to hurl the most insults at the person you disagreed with.

    So with that, I’m a little confused as to what clique this was? Where they for a certian candidate or issue or was it just a random collection of people?

  • barry915barry

    Regardless of what has transpired, we will know in short time the extent of the fall out. While I tend to be fairly benign in my comments, this is a good reminder to us ALL to be respectful. Period. I think the higher ups have made it pretty clear that they have a solid grasp on the big picture. I encourage us all to move forward from hear on out. We are on the same team after all. Barry

  • Jack_Savage

    I am guilty of being hateful to others on this site, mostly to trolls and mobys, but sometimes to people on our team. I am also guilty of being tired. Real tired. But that’s just me.

    There may be cabals around here, and quid pro quos, but I am not aware of any. I recommend very little, simply because I rarely have time to go though the diaries in a serious and thoughtful way. I generally stick to the front page diaries, letting the editors do my work for me. In general, they do a great job. Labor Union Report, Repair Man Jack and others are great writers on timely subjects, and I am happy to see them as FPers.

    I turn out very few diaries now – not that they were ever any good, but they are off the list in less than 24 hours and even if they happened to be any good, no one would know. I try to pack what insight I have into comments, but it seems that unless they are insults we simply talk past each other. Maybe that’s why I love to engage trolls and mobys – they talk back.

    Anyway, this site has made me sharp – very sharp – in my arguments, but I was fortunate enough to be here when it was fairly respectful, and if anyone got out of hand it was usually me. I would say that me indelicately interjecting myself into a little tiff between Pejman and some yahoo from UCLA probably helped him make the decision to go elsewhere. I will always regret that.

    And I guess this is the point of this comment – we need to make each other sharp without being hateful. When it comes to discussions or people we have hashed and rehashed, it’s tough to do that sometimes though, I will admit. Exasperation leads to meanness. I should know.

    We at Redstate need to be educators, and cajolers, and most of all, attract people to explore conservatism. I doubt we would treat people who were curious about Christ the way we sometimes do those who are curious about conservatism and have questions or naive arguments they need to get resolved. Conservatism as a way of life and belief system is second only to Christianity, and closely intertwined in my view, and we should bear that in mind and treat it as such. We need everyone, and we need everyone at their best.

    We are winning. We need to keep it up, not become some factional bunch of morons. Like liberals.

  • taxpayer1234

    I was impressed that the discourse was much less strident than at some other sites. However, the tone and quality of commentary seemed to degenerate, and after a while, I stopped commenting. I guess I’ll wait and see what happens after the Kraken gets done with the housework.

  • GregInFla

    I appreciated all the links in one place, and a discussion that having that information can provoke. There is definitely a plan by the administration to choke off energy. The WH is not full of bumbling fools, but people with an agenda and a game plan. And if someone refuses to see it, then too bad for him/her. I mean, Progressive Insurance was founded by a progressive. And how many people even realized it when it was right there in front of them.

    Now I am sure that perfectionists may be disappointed with diaries like LIO’s and those of KennyS (and mine too). But I find them very informative.

  • powertothepeople

    regardless of opinion of TC’s behavior or the validity of the diary, this site is not a democracy, they do not need to explain decisions made, and they do not need the “I like/love what you are doing” support of the members to keep the decision in place. We are all guests and when and if the day comes the 601 error sits on our screen, it is simply the way it is. I take no sides on the issue as I have little room to judge another person words on here, did not follow the exchange, nor do I know enough about Texas energy policy to know if the diary was right on the money or full of conspiracies, but I do know the owners and lead editor have no explaining to do when it comes to who they appoint as mods, who the ban, who they do not ban, who they allow to speak freely, or who they censor. This is their home, not ours, we have no say except what they allow us to say. In my home I am free to tell anyone I please to go suck an egg, but I guarantee they will not say it to me without facing a forceful eviction. The same applies to all of us who are guests in this home. Our opinions do not matter one way or the other.

    If they do not care about how TC spoke, that is the way it is supposed to be. All of us as conservatives should care more about this sites right to police their own private property more than we care about how one person spoke. And if TC spoke as he is allowed to by the owner of this home, nothing else matters.

  • itrytobenice

    I’m sorry about your father-in-law. You and your family will be in my prayers tonight.

    And I’m also sorry about Vassar. He’s been a recent addition to the site, but one that I’ve enjoyed reading very much. I’m not really all that impressed with Kraken’s aim.

  • NeoKong

    Like Thomas Crown was ?

    I hope the standard is just a wee bit higher.

  • The_Rebel

    Is his the new tone that RedState is looking for, one that allows someone to hurl as many insults as he can muster to prove his point?

  • Aaron Gardner
  • Flagstaff

    His profile is still available, which used to mean “no problema.”

    Nor does it seem to be true for ladyimpactohio, whose profile is also still up.

  • jaxinbotox1

    You say something.
    Someone disagrees.
    You try to defend your argument.
    They disagree and defend theirs.
    Then someone says “bye bye”
    Then they are gone

  • NeoKong

    “If they do not care about how TC spoke, that is the way it is supposed to be.”

    Gold star for you.

  • RottDawg

    Their profiles have been left, they are just getting the 601 error…

  • The_Rebel

    .

  • Aaron Gardner

    Only thing I would point out is that conservatism, by its nature, isn’t as forgiving as Christianity. Nor should it be. ;)

  • Crowe

    Man, I had forgotten a lot of the names who have popped back up in this post and its thread… Still missing doverspa, azizhp (though i follow him on Twitter–good stuff), Tacitus, Augustine, and others. I still come around too, but I also do lest posting and commenting because there are so many commenters who seem to just soil themselves onto their keyboard, hit post, and fill up the comments with another completely useless thought. Any substantial thoughts then are crowded out. I’ve only rarely ever paid attention to the diaries for the same reason–just too much stuff not worth reading. And I never liked 3.0.

    anyhow, good to catch up with you all, and good to hear from you c17wife–I remember some good exchanges back in the day!

    As for where is RS going? Time will tell. Hopefully back in a 2.0 direction.

  • Aaron Gardner
  • Crowe

    …whom I couldn’t think of. I remember many a good exchange with him also, one of the original liberals who would stick around, take the hits, offer good critiques at times, but who was almost always wrong, *of course*…

  • Bill S

    pretty much tears your assertion to shreds.

  • powertothepeople

    make sure when you endeavor to take the rights away from this home, you relinquish the rights your enjoy in your own home. And then spend some time coming up with a slightly more clever line.

    Funny how so many so called conservatives are so ready to demand their way in another persons home, yet scream for their own way in their own home. But then again, maybe if you whine some more, Erik will relinquish his rights and do as you want him to do. All spirited followers of Communism desire that type of arrangement.

    Goose step Erik, goose step for poor Neo. And all of us “lemmings” shall join you.

  • powertothepeople

    you found no proof in me. I am as far from the top as one could be. And I march with no one. I simply am ready to grant Erik his rights to govern his own home as he sees fit the same as I govern mine. And in as much as I owe you no explanation as to how my home is run, he owes us no explanation as well regardless of how you and Neo feel he does.

  • The_Rebel

    You know what he’s referring to. As I’ve also been saying, it’s the insults and the tone. And GC was also on the receiving end of his bitter barbs. I ask you, Aaron, is this to be the new tone here at RedState?

  • The_Rebel

    My reply had nothing to do with you, personally, whether you are at the top or the bottom.

  • powertothepeople

    conservatism, private property rights, and the rights of PP owners only apply when it is convenient or permissible to them. That is of course unless it is their own home or site, then they want the freedom they are so ready to deny another.

  • powertothepeople

    conveniently or on purpose.

  • NeoKong

    You and I used to be drinkin’ buddies.

    I just particularly did not care for his tone which was a polite way of saying GFY if you don’t like it.
    I do not see how this site being private property means that certain people can bully others
    Is that the rule now….?

    Wasn’t one point of this diary to be about fairness?

    I am not here as much as many other people so maybe I don’t always pick up on certain vibes or currents but it seems to me that LadyImpactOhio had posted a diary that people were enjoying and commenting on and then all of a sudden TC decided to pick a fight with a 95 pound woman in a rude and hostile way.

  • Leon H. Wolf

    You know, the other day when I posted my diary on the Hoft/Logan fracas, you and I had a very civil discussion and disagreement. Simultaneous to our discussion, however, I had some with other commenters that were not so civil.

    It takes two to tango in a conversation that is nice and polite. On the other hand, one person on either side can make a conversation bitter in a hurry.

  • http://teapartisan.wordpress.com Socrates

    .

  • NeoKong

    You come across as angry.

  • Aaron Gardner

    This site is not community owned. You don’t make the standards, you follow them. It really is as simple as that.

    Thomas has a history here, and while you may not appreciate it, his history is more valuable to this site than all the writing of LIO, NeoKong, and you put together.

    GC is a big boy and can handle his own fights, which should be obvious since he is still a member. As far as tone goes, I will tell you that we won’t be putting up with the conspiratorial tone that has been prevalent in certain member’s writings.

  • powertothepeople

    You do not have to support this site, you do not have to agree with this site, you do not have to like the rules, you do not have to like any real or perceived favoritism, you have the right to leave. The same would apply to my home, your home, and other persons home. And like it or not, the site has no requirement to explain their rules to you or to me, they do not have to cater to you, to me, or to anyone else, and they can do as they please. They can allow one to cuss and yet ban another for the same since this is their home. They can allow one to be rude yet ban another for the same as it is their home. The could be list could go on and on. If your or I or anyone else feels so strongly about perceived or real actions of the site, we can chose to leave and take our support to another site or create our own. But that is where our rights end. The site owes us nothing, not fairness or even and explanation.

  • Aaron Gardner
  • Leon H. Wolf

    We do not tolerate birthers, truthers, or other associated conspiracy theorists here and never have. LIO was warned privately and persisted in her course of conduct. The two responses that were available at the time were public criticism of her work (which was associated with RedState at FoxNation) in the hopes of reform or just banning her.

    I guess next time we’ll know which road to take.

  • Bill S

    Give it a rest for a while. Please.

  • Aaron Gardner
  • powertothepeople

    drinking is not my game, if I was angry you would be able to tell quickly, and you do not hold enough importance to even begin to make me angry. I simply point out the fallacy of your argument and the hypocrisy that came with it. But as I said prior, keep whining and maybe you will be noticed.

  • http://teapartisan.wordpress.com Socrates

    In the old days, we had all of these weighty polysyllabic navel-gazing discussions about weighty philosophical subjects. All very … weighty.

    Then we started becoming activists, involved directly in electoral politics. And of course we got bigger.

    So I think some of the incivility may be due to mission creep.

  • The_Rebel

    I’ll ask you again. Is Thomas’ tone and behavior in his posts over the weekend being condoned by RedState, and is that tone what we can expect from commenters, despite their history, as we go forward.

    I don’t know who has been banned tonight, but I would expect that many of them had a history here, also, which had some value to this site.

    And skip the straw man about conspiratorial tone. I’m not talking about that and you know it.

  • NeoKong

    I just do not understand the purpose of it.
    It is spreading out and now everybody is bickering with each other.
    I am not trying to argue with you. Merely discuss the topic at hand.

  • Bill S

    I saw that suggested somewhere else. Interesting observation.

  • KC

    I’m not trying to be difficult either – just wanna post in the proper format. Especially after reading all 190 comments in this thread.

    Thanks for trying to help this ‘ole country boy from Missouri.

  • Bill S

    Please.

    If you have a complaint, take it to the Contact link.

  • Bill S

    And I’m from MO also, but from the other side of the state, it seems ;-)

  • NeoKong

    I like RedState.
    It’s just until now I have never seen such hostility toward members that I and many others have personally met and don’t understand it and in my humble opinion the other night was the time to give it a rest.

  • itrytobenice

    I figured out how to do it.

    And it was a helluva slam. No wonder you all wanted it whited out.

    But I’ll also say this, I’m going to miss EPU. He’s been a good egg.

  • The_Rebel

    then there will be a lot of members leaving, including myself. I’ve been here for about 6 years, so I don’t need your lecturing about the rules or lack thereof at this site.

  • pamela1631

    For you and yours.

    In the quiet darkness, voices are still heard, no matter the distance.
    I’ll light a candle for your Pop-in-Law

  • Aaron Gardner

    As for TCrown, considering the subject matter, I think he went soft. We’d be better off if he was still moderating the site.

    P.S. I won’t skip the conspiratorial tone. That tone has been the downfall of the RS commentariat and member diares.

  • NeoKong

    I like you Aaron. Always did.
    I’m gonna’ sign off for the night but if you want you can spar with me on Twitter.

  • Bill S

    Everyone really needs to read Erick’s other post and understand that there are things that take place behind the scenes that aren’t pretty.

  • The_Rebel

    work comes early, so I better get to bed. I have some serious thinking to do about whether to remain a member of RedState. I don’t like where this site seems to be heading.

  • Goldwater_Conservative

    Gamecock, or someone else?

  • ocleverone
  • qsclues

    I’ve rarely commented on anything and have posted no diaries since the election. I still read this site and others, but have little to contribute that hasn’t already been said better by others. And I can’t say as I’ve noticed the “clique”, per se, but I’ll leave intra-site politics to others.

    I will only say that I can’t fathom there being any problem here on RedState that banning Vassar Bushmills is going to solve, unless Erick is concerned about too much well-written, quality content.

  • Flagstaff

    I hope your family is peaceful. Take good care of your father-in-law; you’ll remember these days forever.

    Today, February 20, 2011, would have been my father’s 98th birthday. I still miss him.

  • edwyrd

    from a steady RS diet. i am much sharper, and better informed. this has given me the edge in numerous confrontations with the enemy.
    from my travels here and there upon the web i have found no place like redstate.

    its real cozy here. i like it!

    when i get some extra time i hope to do a post or two.

  • itrytobenice

    Augustine is posting under his own name: Ben Domenech, and wasn’t Tacitus Josh’s name? I can’t remember now.

    Does anyone know if JustMe is anywhere these days? I can’t remember the last time she posted.

  • barry915barry

    We can pick this up tomorrow if you would like. I believe we should be respectful. Period. We hold OURSELVES accountable, as adults. Or, as that famous line in Bambi goes ……..”If you can’t say something nice, …” You and Rebel down thread are fighting an un-winnable battle. There has been enough carnage for one day. Barry.

  • Leon H. Wolf

    So, you know, no reason for you to be sticking your nose back in around here. :)

  • Bill S
  • SoulEspresso

    I’ve been coming here much less, lately. RS used to be on my go-to list every day. It was becoming less informative and less fun. Lately I’ve been here averaging maybe every two weeks …? And if there are others like me, that can’t be good for site traffic.

    RS was a great place to know what was happening and how we could help. Hopefully this will help it get there again. All best.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Nobody was supposed to know the real reason we made TCrown leave.

  • pamela1631

    To be honest, I wasn’t sure what happened. At first I thought RS had been the unfortunate recipient of spammers or lefty-loons attacking the place. In tracing back, I see it was internal.

    Which leaves me with the impression of a funeral pyre having been lit. When or why did we start eating our own…
    over words or needing to have the last word spoken.

    I now know Vassar and LIO have been ousted. Not sure whom else. Their insight and ability to impart information in an cohesive manner will be sorely missed as will their own wit and wisdom.

    I do know one piece of wisdom to be true. You want to undermine something, do it from within.

  • itrytobenice

    I’ve clicked on the profile of some full-on lefty trolls to see if they’ve been gacked yet, and they still show an active profile, but then I’ll see where they’ve already hit The Pile™.

    Apparently that went away about the same time we lost the capacity to tell how long someone’s been registered.

  • Aaron Gardner

    ;)

  • audax

    “I know that I don?t read here near as much as I used to, but I?d like to see a link from any or all of you where I could see who, exactly, it is that is behaving with boorish behavior”

    Powertothepeople and mbecker are two who have treated me boorishly. Just don’t read their comments anymore.

  • Flagstaff

    What have I been missing? Where are all these nasty comments? Have we all become so thin-skinned that we can’t take any less-than-elegant criticism, or have some folks really become vile? I haven’t seen them.

    Why do so many people seem afraid that they’ve been banned? Do they have good reason, or are they paranoid?

    This whole business smells of something more than a few nasty comments to me, and we should all be able to smell it. It exploded too fast and went too far for it to be as “simple” as the explanations try to make it. If it were a blow-up in a politician’s campaign, we’d all be saying, “follow the money,” or “the hoo-hah doesn’t match the reports.” I don’t believe in a conspiracy to game the site, either, but I suppose some evidence could change my mind, and I don’t see any reason why the site owners would release evidence even if they have some.

    The CBS-Bush-TANG papers didn’t make sense, and we saw that quickly. John Edwards was a slimeball, and we saw that immediately (took the public a while longer). ObamaCare was a scam from the start–it’s still being played out, but no matter the outcome, it’s still a scam.

    Maybe somebody got bored.

  • Flagstaff

    “legitimate debate over about 8 other presidential candidates that I feel are being passed on due to 1 or 2 not ?true conservative? moment.”

    I think there are consequences of the idea of “true conservative” vs. flip-flopper that can hurt us severely in future elections. Demanding 100% compliance from birth on any issue is counterproductive, as is placing the same importance on issue z as we do on issue A.

    We all are set in some ways. We need to make sure that we’re aware of them.

  • itrytobenice

    though it is a response to your general theme.

    We are all well aware that we don’t own this site. That falls right in the middle of the No $h!t, Sherlock square. However, as a site, it has long been the goal to engage participants not only in comments but in diaries and activism as well. We are interested in advancing the cause of conservatism.

    That engagement is going to come with some level of opinion, not only about things about which management wishes us to express out opinions, but a vast array of subjects of interest. As adults, we don’t typically have a problem with this.

    Yes, Eagle owns the website, but their advertising revenue comes from clicks, which come from an engaged and interested readership. It may at times be a difficult line to walk, keeping readers involved and still moderating their involvement, but don’t act like you’ve brought us some great words of wisdom, solving this problem for them by telling the stupid riff raff to STFU and Get Offa My Lawn.

    That’s really not at all the vision of the website, or at least it hasn’t been in the past. We shall see in the future, I suppose.

  • Flagstaff

    It was just a curiosity, but now we have to wonder why it was removed. New software, or something sinister?

    I think this has gone way too far if it is as some are saying. It makes no sense to remove folks who are good writers and knowledgeable about a variety of topics, unless they’re hurting the site in some other way, which isn’t apparent.

    You obviously know the ins and outs of this software better than I do. I’ve never even been able to figure out how to use tags properly.

  • IJB

    Let me just go on record as not being in favor of that decision.
    For whatever it’s worth.

  • Locked and Loaded
  • Flagstaff

    Erick made it clear in the OP. I just overlooked it.

  • itrytobenice

    (I think it was Neil who said it) someone wasn’t being nice to the n00bs and they thought if none of us could tell if they were n00bs or not, we’d start being nice to everyone, so they took it away.

  • itrytobenice

    I’ve only read powertothepeople’s posts in this thread, having not noticed him before now, but I think maybe his report card would not give him a gold star on the ‘plays well with others’ line.

    And I’m positive Becker’s card doesn’t have any gold stars at all. I can’t tell how long you’ve been here, but Becker has been a curmudgeon since God made dirt. You have to take him and Tbone with a grain of valium. Or just ignore his comments.

    I’ve developed a real fondness for the old coots, but I know that’s not universal. Heh. That may be an understatement.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • Hooah_Mac

    I haven’t had much to say in a long time, still dealing with my medical issues. I think there are some problems here at Redstate, but they are not new in any way. The mood of the country, the electoral challenges and victories of conservatives, and a real sense that the country simply can’t wait any longer to be brought back from the brink are all leading people to be more strident with their opinions.

    What has frequently bothered me is that some people are banned for perhaps being too dense to understand why their comments are inappropriate, while certain other people (who are FPs and/or people who have banning capability) are allowed to be rude and condescending – even more troubling coming those whose posts and views do not fit with the either the general philosophy of the site or the stated philosophy of EE and others. “Do as I say, not as I do” is actually a legitimate management technique, it just isn’t an effective one.

    I want to be clear that I have no dog in this recent fight and I believe it the right of site management to do as they please. However, just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. Don’t read anything extra into what I’ve said, and if someone is personally offended by what I have said, my guess is they have some guilt that they assume I am referring to.

    The bickering should stop. Recommenders of course need to be careful that they are recommending all the good material they can without undue bias, and moderators need to be sure they are moderating based on site rules rather than weeding out certain opinions and playing favorites – that is if we intend to be a strong and useful community.

  • audax

    …about a year and a half. Just started posting Diary’s recently, mostly about American exceptionalism and fiscal things, a short one on Margaret Sangers “Negro Project”, and for Cold warrior, my experience getting to be a precinct committeman/delegate and my trip to the 1976 GOP National Convention as a Reagan Delegate from Jerry Ford’s homestate.

    Like Red State and am very glad there is a place to read like minded commentary and get a sense of what is happening in the US. Just don’t like being called names if I make commentary. Think it isn’t very adult, or conservative. Thanks for being “nice”! Have found a lot of other really nice people on here too.

  • Flagstaff

    Well-meaning and sort of convoluted. Obama might call it an ax.

    I guess I just haven’t spent enough time reading here. I missed all of that. Then again, I don’t have time to read as much as I want to. (To-be-read stack is now at four feet and growing.) That’s why I’d hate for the Recommended Diaries to go away. I depend on other RSers to help me find the best stuff. Still, after today, I’m committed to checking out more of the other current stuff.

  • azaeroprof

    Maybe just naive.

    My job responsibilities have kept me from writing…and sometimes reading…as much as I would like here. I had noticed some rather impertinent tones at times, but just wrote it off to legitimate disagreement of opinion. I had also noticed some unnecessary vitriol with regards to “that woman”, from both sides. As one of her supporters, I had even been tempted to stop reading here as it disheartened me to see some of the negative things said about her on a conservative site. But I get the impression that the issue here has nothing to do with that topic. (And on a side note, I have found myself secretly hoping she doesn’t run in 2012. This would hopefully allow some of the negativity from both sides to die down a bit and still leave her plenty of time to run later. Her running in 2012 might be akin to Reagan’s ill-fated attempt to run in ’68.)

    I will leave the whole “Thor’s hammer” deal to Erick, Moe, Neil & Co. who follow the site much more closely than I do and I’m certain are in a better position to assess the status of the site. I will continue to read and comment/post as time allows with the naive belief that everything here is fair and legit. If you like my diaries, please reco them, and I will do the same for diaries that I like as well. If you agree or disagree with my comments, feel free to let me know in a respectful manner, and I will return the favor. My skin is pretty thick.

    And penguin2, my prayers go to you and your family on your father-in-law’s illness. I lost my father-in-law to cancer about a year and a half ago. He was a good man and we miss him terribly. We reserved a chair for him as we watched his beloved Auburn Tigers win the national championship.

  • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com Beaglescout

    I don’t see the purpose in gaming the recommendations like this. I think the real reason the same people keep getting recommends is because most people who have written a lot in the diaries get burned out and leave the site after a while. The ones who have earned a good name and stuck around get recommends because of who they are and how well they wrote this diary, their last diary, and every other diary they have ever written. Is it fair if you look only at one day’s snapshot of all diaries? No, not if you measure it like a progressive would, with marxian class analysis.. Is it fair if you look at a year’s worth of diaries? Yes, absolutely, because then the lie of the class analysis becomes clear. And it is fair for the same reason that a free market is a fair economy, even though some people are at the peak of their careers and doing well and others are at the beginning and just scraping by: the equal freedom to work and succeed.

  • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com Beaglescout

    Wouldn’t that be a more direct way of addressing the issue than removing the ‘member for X days’ information from profiles?

    We do have rules of etiquette, don’t we?

  • JadedByPolitics

    that is bad news indeed. I cannot think of ANYONE other then Vassar that I would have spent 10-15 mins reading what they had written, because I knew each and every part of it was important. Vassar of course is a brilliant writer and he will no doubt end up somewhere else and really, when you find out where please let me know. I always thought he was front page material as is GC.

    I am so sorry to hear about your father in law and I am praying for you and your family.

  • Christine (Trelaina)

    I don’t read as much as I used to (but that is due to life’s demands and has nothing to do with RS) but I’ve asked myself often where you were.

  • Christine (Trelaina)

    to no avail.

  • rick554

    Spring cleaning is ALWAYS good!

  • Raven

    The War of the Titans is just a touch campy…

  • Raven

    Information gatherers. Odin either did his enforcing in person, or sent family members.

  • Raven

    The serving usually goes the other way round. With the Kraken receiving “People and Chips” in a rolled up newspaper…

  • romans12n2

    I have missed commenting at my beloved Redstate. In fact, I had gotten so disgusted that I barely even came to the site anymore. Plus, now I’m looking forward to Hearing Erick on Boortz too! Not a bad start to a Monday.

  • http://www.objectivistcenter.org/ Eric Olsen

    …what most of this is about, either.

    All I know is I NEVER recommend ANYONE’S stuff. Not because I’m trying to be egalitarian or am afraid to offend anyone, but rather because I’m the best damn writer here, and most of you people are so jealous, you purposefully ignored my two or three diaries out of spite, didn’t you?!?!?!?!

    For those of you slow to start in the morning, the above is properly categorized as “facetiousness.” :-)

  • smagar

    I was getting the sense that things had changed on RS, and that more strident voices were dominating the place. I felt a lot less welcome around here. (Especially after one front pager pointedly and directly told me I should consider leaving the site).

    Then I saw your posts about how RS has changed. It was nice to see that you—-whose opinion I value—shared a lot of my feelings.

    If Redstate has changed to the point where longtime and dedicated commenters like you don’t feel welcome—then change has definately gone too far.

    Looking forward to continuing this discussion offline.

    As for me, I’m still teaching (and otherwise getting in trouble) in FT Huachuca. Do your hubby’s big planes visit Davis-Monthan often?

  • Sam Gamgee

    I hope many of the “oldies” who have responded to your comment, c17wife, will come back. I’m a faithful RS reader, but have commented only very rarely in the past few years. Perhaps if Erick is successful in what he says he will do, and if some of the great posters from the past (like you) start posting again, we’ll have more of the well-reasoned, thoughtful and civil comments and diaries like we had a couple of years ago.

  • Praying

    Thank you for standing up. One thing that I have always loved about Red State is that the site did not get into the horrible, name calling, venomous comments seen on so many other sites. Unfortunately, it was becoming more “just like all the rest” lately – and I seldom bothered to read or respond to any comments as a result. I have also not written a diary in over a year – a result of the same disrespect that you are addressing here. I have no problem with you standing up and taking a stand, and I applaud you for doing so.

  • america1st

    Previously, I was somewhat paranoid about my verbiage in posting here because my already meager diplomatic skills often fail in the heat of the moment and those with the “ban hammer” sometimes seemed to find “insult” and “disrespect” in comments which seemed innocuous to me.

    E.g. . . . poster A comments something on the order of “I can’t believe you said that given . . .” and the response from the mod / FP person B is “Who are you to call ME stupid?” as he waves the magic wand.

    I’m not familiar with the posts which precipitated this reaction, but my impression has been RS is a site where, sadly, comments are almost painfully milquetoast for fear of displeasing those in charge. “Civility” has done no more for our nation in dealing with the domestic enemy – the “progressives” – than it did for Chamberlain in dealing with Hitler. It really *IS* time to drop the velvet glove and employ the iron fist – energetically – if the country is to be saved from the socialist mediocrities envisioned by ?bowma and its myrmidons. Unfortunately, many continue to believe in political / social compromise when none is possible without the continuing compromise of principles which already rots the foundations of our Republic.

    Site rules are the price of admission on any forum – understood and acknowledged. I am not going away because there is good information available, but I will continue to make my personal stand at a greater, far angrier and more militant remove from center than I would be permitted to express here.

  • Brian Hibbert

    It’s a minor protest to what’s happening here, but it’s a banner I’ve flown proudly for several years now and it MEANT something (if only to me).

    Frankly, this whole episode may be the signal for RedState’s demise. I, for one, will be sad if that is the result of this whole fiasco.

    Mass banning of RedState regulars for no reason more that a personality conflict is just stupidity.

    I haven’t been as active here as I once was (for a variety of reasons), but this is still at least a daily stop (usually multiple times) for me. It probably doesn’t matter much to you if I leave. But if I’m disappointed and discouraged with this site, you can bet there are hundreds of others who are as well. This will become just another uninteresting site that used to be something special.

  • Wubbies World

    I am not going to rehash the past. It serves no purpose.

    It is nice to see all the names again posting and commenting.

  • streiff

    at least not ours.

  • AceInTX

    and once the fall off the list…they disappear into oblivion.

    New Diarists have trouble being read because they only have their diaries posted for half a day and they are gone forever. How hard would it be to have a link at the bottom of the Member Diaries list that would let you read alder diaries that you missed because you were off the site for a day or so?

    I’ve complained about this since the first day we converted

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    but maybe a team could be created to scour the diaries for good ones that might otherwise be missed. Since I’m suggesting, I think it would be good to have a mix of regular users and contributors. Also, since I suggested it, I should be willing to be a participant, so I’d do it. Perhaps a larger group of people that participate on a rotating basis.

  • dinorightmarie

    …I am glad that I am not a victim of the Kraken! Personally, I’m glad that there is a ban hammer if there has been such trouble. Trolls, moles, and other parasitic posters can become like a cancer.

  • wrveres

    long time reader, who only comments once in a while. i just wanted to see if i got the hammer.

  • wrveres

    i win at the internet!

  • AceInTX

    One of the consistent problems since we switched to 4.0 is that the recommended diaries stay up too long.

    I’ve quit paying attention to the Recommended Diaries because it doesn’t change from day to day. Keep in mind I say this as someone who frequently ends up on the RECO list. (BTW, It’s not because of some nefarious plot. I’ve been around a while, I have a reputation and a following, and I get recommended when my posts go up…The Lemon List is dead and has been for a long time…so we can get over the paranoia now)

    My suggestion would be…rather than restricting how many Diaries I can recommend would be to make the Reco Diaries expire after a certain amount of time to make room for the next in line. I mean…how does it help new diarists out if I use up my allotment of recos and along comes a rookie poster who hits the nail on the head and I can’t recomend him to get him on the top?

  • http://jeffemanuel.net Jeff Emanuel
  • g8ri

    I really enjoyed Vasar Bushmills, Jaded by Politics, Labor Union Report, Kenny Solomon, etc because they gave me information and food for thought. I know I don’t have to come here, but it was fun.I thought this was a forum to exchangei deas.

  • AceInTX

    since we left RS 2.0 we can’t go past the bottom of the Member Diaries list, so once you post your diary, you only have a couple hours to get recommended before your diary falls off into oblivion never to bee seen again.

    This is frustrating not only for the diarist who misses out on having his work recognized…but it is frustrating for those of us with a 9 to 5 who come to the site to find something to read…and can’t find what we’ve missed over the last day or so and can’t find anything worth reading in the day’s diaries.

    the front pagers have a previous posts link…why don’t the member diarists?

  • AceInTX
  • conservativecurmudgeon

    “..since God made dirt…”
    “..developed a fondness for the old coots…”

  • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

    They have to make room for all the fawning sycophants.

    I’m over it.

    Also, good comments, Brian. My thoughts exactly.

  • AceInTX

    I don’t know what he did to deserve a ban…but I hope it was worthy because he’s one of the few here I read with regularity. I can’t think of a single thing I’ve disagreed with him on.

    tsk tsk

  • earlgrey

    I have also been put in my place a few times. Soetimtes it has been appreciated, other times I found it inappropriate.

    Hopefully this latest kerfuffle is just growing pains. The conservative movement and actiivsm is getting bigger, and we are just dealing with the some of the challenges of growing a movemet.

    That is how I”d like to look at it.

  • traversecityconservative

    Is a troll someone who only looks for certain topics and only posts on that? I’ve never really been clear on what a troll is.

  • AceInTX
  • streiff

    it had started being used as a way of disparaging comments by new people rather than addressing their point. We tried to find a way to keep it and mask it from non-contributors but WordPress doesn’t support that so we decided to disable the function.

  • usadying

    I feel like I’m back in high school. Conservatives used to be adults.

  • usadying

    I feel like I’m back in high school. Conservatives used to be adults.

  • traversecityconservative

    I anticipate that when people choose who they support in the Republican primary, things will get VERY heated at RS. That doesn’t bother me too much though, as I will want to know as much about the candidates as possible, even the ones I support. As far as banning people goes, below the area where we do our posts, it DOES say “be respectful or be banned.” That’s pretty cut and dried.

  • AceInTX

    I’ve had a target on my back since I started here because when I started…there were a dozen people who could wield the blam stick…who would prowl the threads with no way for a poster to know they were a mod…that would drive by snipe…and uncloak as they summarily send the poster with the temerity to reply in kind to the nether regions.

    I was one of the lucky ones to survive because Adam C decided to champion my cause when I pointed ou the site was becoming an echo chamber.

    To be fair…I brought a scrutiny on mysel because McCain was so hard for me to swallow and I won’t lay all the blame on those moderators I irked…but to this day…there are some of them…whom I’ve tried to engage in conversation on issues we agreed on….and the frost is thick in the air.

    again…the only thing I take issue with is banning someone who replies in kind to insults and arrogance from a site moderator. Of course it’s their site…and of course they can kick out anyone they want…as it should be since we don’t know everything that’s gone before…but leadership comes from the top…and much of the behavior exited my diarists is a reflection of the abuse exhibited by the FPers.

    I hope this doesn’t get me banned…but I think some introspection may be in order here while the purge is ongoing.

  • BigRedConservative

    I suppose a benevolent dictatorship is better than an anarchist nightmare. I’ve managed to escape the wrath of the cliques, but I know plenty of people haven’t been so fortunate. I eagerly await Redstate Redux.
    ……………………………………………………………………………………………
    www.musingsofablogger.wordpress.com

  • Aaron Gardner

    I don’t think you have the foggiest clue how much slack has been giving to the commentariat over the last 6 months. I am not saying this to be mean of petty either, it just is what it is.

    Erick, Bill and other FP diarist have tried to restate the rules of the site a few times recently. The response was hysteria and cries of 1st Amendment rights being infringed upon. Oh the CENSORSHIP!!!!11!!!

    Maybe, just maybe, it’s time for the commentariat to be introspective. Maybe then we can get back to business instead of defending conspiracy theorist, birthers, libertines, and various other good for nothing cranks.

    My time on the front taught me many things, the first of which is that FP contributors get attacked all the time, both intellectually and personally. For all the crap we take, we should be banning more people.

  • pastisprolog

    I’ve made several attempts to write a comment that accurately conveyed my thoughts about this purge, for I suppose that is what it is.

    First, cheating is unacceptable because it is immoral. It’s immoral because it is deceptive or dishonest, if you prefer that word. Cheating is a form of lying. Conservatives aren’t supposed to resort to lying; that’s what progressives do.

    Second, many discussions had sunk to the level of name-calling, variations of, “your mother wears army boots,” or, “you’re so stupid, talking to you is like talking to a dead fish,” This is what progressives do, like Olberman and Matthews, not what conservatives are supposed to do.

    I am old enough that I was taught in public schools such tactics are unworthy of serious deliberation. In other words, resorting to personal insults in a debate forfeits the argument, just like cheating on a test results in failing the test.

    In a heated argument, such as during many differences of opinion here, someone may chase away the opponent by using discussion-ending insults, but that has never meant he won the argument. The contrary is more likely true.

  • AceInTX

    cheap goods on our shores and about their obvious currency manipulation…all that matters in JOBs and the deficit…so Mitch…how is it that you can’t figure out that China’s predatory trade policies and currency manipulation have a direct impact on jobs, our budget, our economy and the deficit?

  • Wubbies World

    … more than generous and lenient. I may not have been posting or commenting much, but I have been reading. What was allowed to pass for site conduct really raised eyebrows regularly for me.

    No one can say they were not warned or given opportunities.

    Besides, my parents always taught me two wrongs do not make a right. It is better to let it slide and not be an equal opportunity offender. In the NFL, the guy who retaliates after a penalty against him gets flagged too.

  • AceInTX
  • acat

    My first question is if he followed with “instead of whining, we should do X”.

    If so, then … evaluation of X is in order.

    If not, then … yeah. Mitch seems to have a serious knack for eating his loafers.

    Mew

  • acat

    My first question is if he followed with “instead of whining, we should do X”.

    If so, then … evaluation of X is in order.

    If not, then … yeah. Mitch seems to have a serious knack for eating his loafers.

    Mew

  • MikeG (Icythus)

    I greatly enjoyed his regular posts on the philosophical underpinning of conservatism back in the old days. Glad to see he has returned to the Front Page and is popping up in the Comments section more frequently. Erick’s activism coverage is well-written and highly important (and a big reason why RedState carries so much weight nowadays), but too often I come away feeling demoralized that I can’t do more for the Movement. It would be nice to see the Front Page not have quite as heavy an emphasis on “Call Your Senator!!!” or 2012 prognosticating as it currently does. That’s why I love Moe Lane’s stuff: he at least makes me laugh on a regular basis.

    As far as the whole Releasing-of-the-Kraken goes, I don’t know that much about cliques and gaming the diaries: I don’t post very much any more because life happens, and because time spent doing research and writing diaries is time not spent looking for a job and making sure I don’t fail out of school again.

    What I do know is that I’ve been reading and commenting on RedState since 2004, and I remember when we started out as the conservative second fiddle to Daily Kos (yeah, I know, what’s that?). Today this site is THE online destination for conservative dialogue and activism, and no one person has had more to do with that stunning rise than Erick Erickson. If he says it’s time to bring the hammer down, than I say, swing away!

  • Scope

    and are well on the road to being fully mended.

  • AceInTX

    My point is…I’ve been at the other end of the game here when a mod is being insulting and a Pr@ck in general and having to couch every word in reply…or just walk away without replying knowing said mod is just waiting for you to step over the line so they can show their power by blamming you…

    I’ve dealt BEEN banned for replying in kind to a moderator who was employing the self same tactics that we’re banning non moderators for in the past and others here have dealt with the same. GC is one I know of and others…

    I’m not talking about you AG…because I’ve seen you give and take…there are others however…who resort to attacks and insults baiting the little mouse under the hammer to rise up and bare it’s teeth so it can be summarily crushed.

    By all means…if a purge need to happen…and Erick being sued of all things suggests it must be done…let those wielding the lead by example.

  • AceInTX

    let those wielding the hammer lead by example.

  • AceInTX

    I have it on my MP3 player but don’t know how to download and post it

  • KC

    ….it’s against my better judgement to wade into this controversy. But I’m going to anyway.

    Erik has given us a public forum to promote Conservative values and principles. Redstates is a popular Conservative website that reaches a large audience across thy fruited plain including (so I’m told) our elected officials who have the power to make a positive difference.

    So why do we post here?

    Is it to promote Conservative ideas and to influence our large following of readers in a positive way?

    -or-

    Is it merely a vehicle for us to take an ego trip by seeking recommendations from our peers here at Redstates?

    Seems to me that a lot of problems could be solved by disabling the rec button.

    And finally, let’s all take a deep breath and remember that posting here is a privilege – not a right.

  • Aaron Gardner

    After years of reading your comments I can fill in the words you forgot to type. ;)

  • Wubbies World

    I missed all that fireworks. I guess TC was involved too.

  • acat

    I may disagree with you but I’ve never known you to be less than honest.

    I have, however, known Daniels to be, intellectually, a bulb with a bit of a flicker… “truce” when he should have made some vague pro-conservative noises; tax hike on upper-incomes when upper-incomes tend to be the very business owners who have saved Indiana’s economic bacon…

    Mew

  • AceInTX

    he didn’t…Ingraham.com MAY have the audio online…

    BTW it was the Jan 31 Laura Ingraham Show. Daniels said we need to quit whining about the Chinese and focus on the only thing that matters and that is the debt crisis, the economy and jobs.

  • AceInTX
  • c17wife

    y’all know how to reach me.
    And thanks for supporting our country’s military.
    Times really suck right now for us all. Worst environment I’ve ever seen and I was a dependent kid during the Carter years. January 2013 can not come soon enough.
    I just hope that behavior like this current nonsense doesn’t keep us from reclaiming and saving the Republic.

  • AceInTX
  • c17wife

    nice Twitty reference.
    What I would give to be back in coastal Carolina among real gentlemen. Sigh….

  • c17wife

    The whole thing is very disconcerting.
    We are losing our focus. We should be hammering the enemy. And make no mistake…they are the enemy.
    Instead, we are preening and bickering over nonsense.
    I have three children and I see this as no different than the three of them arguing over who gets to talk first and who interupted and blah, blah, blah…..
    Focus people, it’s time to focus.
    GC has my contact, so just pop him a quick e-mail. I’m trying not to post mine for all to see.

  • c17wife

    And you aren’t too far off the mark, I am afraid.

  • AceInTX

    I know that’s not what you’re thinking…or saying…but it seems…whatever group is picking is subject to bias and or favoritism…I want the member diaries to stay free wheeling…I’m uncomfortable with subjects like trooffers, or birfers, or creationism being banned…I’d refer to see these subjects discussed and dealt with on the merits…why not ban discussions of global warming for instance?

    What I would like to see is the diaries on the reco list expiring after 24 to 48 hours and a link to allow us to continue looking at diaries that have fallen off the end of the member diaries list…there are numerous posters who call this out as a problem…and I’ve brought it up in threads and the contact link since we moved away from 2.0….to no avail

  • c17wife

    I am well. But much too busy and quite frustrated with where we are as a country.

  • c17wife

    I was dead set against #3, but over time I caved. And so glad I did…he is wonderful, most days. :-)

    Old goats are good, eh?

  • Aaron Gardner

    Technical limitations exist and what you are asking for can’t be done because of the technical limitations of the WP platform.

  • acat

    Not sure if it’s accurate to call it a “tragedy of the commons”, it’s akin, though – a breakdown in group-trust. Respect for the group and other members in it seems to drop as the group increases in size.

    Every group I’ve been a part of that has not made a deliberate decision to limit its’ size has, eventually, gotten to where there are too many people to know, and abrasive answers become more commonplace. Every group that has deliberately size-limited has gone extinct, so it’s obviously a balancing act.

    The numbers seem to vary, but .. beyond a couple hundred active posters – where you can look down the list and say “Know him, know her, know it, know her, know him…” – something toggles over, and the group devolves because before a serious navel-gazing discussion can get very far, someone will post a snarky barb, and it’s over.

    Mew

  • Change Jar Conservative

    that would at least limit some of the problem.

  • merryj1

    …and Scope’s response as a bit harsh.

    However, I’ve had my own “snarkies” taken seriously, too. Probably the best way to avoid that is to use a “Sarc/off” or a “Heh” or smiley face to remove any doubt.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    If the Contributors are involved, it’s “sanctioned”. It would be separate from the Recommended Diaries. Perhaps a once-a-day post like the Morning Briefing. Just a thought….since the platform can’t do what we want this might help. Perhaps promotion by the Contributors as is the current practice is as much as they want to do.

  • earlgrey
  • gekster

    A freind told me about a double bladed ax being swung at RS, and was wondering if I got hit.
    Been gone enjoying the snow for the weekend, and didn’t see the plane crash.
    No, I did not get hit, (allthough I know of some who think I should).
    Going to thaw out now, have a nice day. :)

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    I’m not sure what to think of that!

  • pastisprolog

    Who gets emails? Is getting an email bad? I’ve never gotten an email. Should I be glad, or sad?

  • acat
  • Brian Hibbert

    That’s another feature of the old RedState that went away with the upgrades.

  • c17wife

    I hope the egos can get back in check and get the focus on what it needs to be.
    And I’m not calling anyone out specifically for egos…jus t general statement.
    If the shoe fits…try wearing it a little is all.
    RS used to be something special…now, not so much.

  • gekster

    personal e-mails from friends who also read and or post on RS.
    Sorry if I caused any misunderstandings.

  • jaxinbotox1

    So back off jerk.

  • itrytobenice

    I had a front page contributor and former moderator essentially tell me, Chuck you, Farley. It’s our site and we’ll run it like we want it. If you don’t like it, you can go somewhere else.

    And that was in response to a private email lamenting a particular action taken by the site, not a public posting. Not sure that’s the way to engender our enthusiasm when they’re putting on the red blinking light to spend a few hours on the phone with Congresscritters.

  • Bill S

    http://www.redstate.com/posting-rules

    You have just violated #2. As you have correctly noted, I do have the ability to ban people. Future violations of this rule will result in my exercising that ability.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    That was why I replied what I did. Maybe I don’t have any friends at RS. Maybe if I did, they wouldn’t care if I was gone. Oh, so many things to think about!

    This is all in jest, btw.

  • Wubbies World

    … a lefty who comes here and tries to pretend they are conservative, and just stirs the pot instead.

    There are other clearer definitions others may use, but in my time here, that is the best definition I can provide.

  • gekster

    and you have at the least one friend. :)
    maybe two. ;)

  • acat

    The definition I use comes from John Ringo. The first paragraph reads:

    ———————————–
    “Troll” is not the root in this case. The root is “trolling”, the noun in this case deriving from the verb. “Trolling” comes from the phrase “trolling for newbies.” This is a puerile sport popular on USENET in which a person finds a new poster, reads a couple of posts and then comments on one of the posts in a way to cause the newbie the maximum possible anger. The general term for this is “flames” and the intent is to start another USENET favorite, the “flamewar,” which consists of various insults.
    ———————————–

    From here, there’s some discussion on different types of trolls, those who start in attack mode, those who use more stealthly tactics… but that’s the starting point I assume.

    Mew

  • AceInTX

    but are you saying there can’t be an archive page that links to the diaries?

  • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

    In some situations, both/and is more useful than either/or.

  • rightwingmom52

    to friends, family, acquaintances, co-workers, etc., it’s sad to think that what they’ve read over the last couple of weeks might prevent them (especially newcomers) from coming back.

    Probably like most members, I have a job and a family, so I just don’t have the time to read every single diary, but I take the alerts, money bombs and candidate recommendations seriously and have acted on most if not all of them in some way. I’ve read diaries and comments and wished I had written them. I’ve read others and wondered why they were ever uttered. I’ve often wondered why some members were banned for their comments (or tone) and others weren’t. I rarely read a diary because of its recommend status (whether who or how many), and I don’t think I’ve recommended more than a couple.

    I started writing my first diary about taking the first step toward becoming a precinct chairman a few days ago. Now I find myself questioning if I want to even finish it, much less submit it because I’m really not a natural writer at all, and however thick skinned I may be, I don’t want to be ridiculed as some have been. I’ve started to comment more than once lately and stopped for fear I would say the wrong thing to the wrong person and be ganged up on by some or banned by others. I’ve only been a member about 2 years and have come to rely on RS as my main source of info about conservative issues, and yes, I admit I look for the comments and diaries of certain members, including Erick, to read first, but not exclusively. There is so much to be discouraged about with regard to what’s happening in our country that RS is my refuge – my conservative Bible if you will – my political church. RS is where I come to be informed, encouraged, challenged, even validated to some extent – a place where I can find people who share common beliefs and goals, a common enemy, a common anger or hurt when appropriate. A light at the end of the tunnel of liberalism. I still think all those things are here – I pray they are, but they’ve certainly been a little harder to find lately in the midst of the snark and egos all around.

    By the way, I did not get my Morning Briefing email from EE today which is a little scary in light of certain events.

  • johnnyd

    I am an occasional comments poster that was taken aback by some of the recent comments posted towards other people. I came here to learn and help in any way I can to beat back the progressive assault on our country. I know many people who want to do something to help and they feel helpless because their own President is going against the will of the people.

    Our greatest weapon is information. The Conservative American is starving for the truth and facts. RedState is a place where people want to come and learn how to arm themselves with information. Conservatives are tired of being treated differently than Liberal Progressives by president Obama and his administration. We need to pull together to defeat this progressive attack on our Country.

    I get enough of the progressive elitist on my local newspaper comments section telling people that they are stupid and that they should just shut up and go away. I get enough of the so called educated elite, telling people that they are not smart enough to understand what is going on and should not have a say in how their own country is run.

    I have to say, that recent comments by TCrown were not acceptable to this conservative and surely discourages others to join the conversation. Another poster said basically, if you cannot take being verbally abused, you can go somewhere else? Is that how Conservatives treat each other? Where is the tolerance that our Forefathers taught us when they so bravely constructed the best political system in the world? The Forefathers knew that they had to be tolerant of different religions and differing opinions while at the same time, work towards the same goals. Why can?t we do the same in a civil respecting way?

    I also would like to say that all Americans of all education levels need to be heard. For people to shout down and try to intimidate another person because they did not go to a school of higher learning, is just plain wrong. I would quote the comments but I am unable to find them today.

    If this is how RS wants to run their website they have every right to do so. My comments in no way are meant to say that the moderators are doing a bad job. I know how much time and effort goes into moderating a website and they should be commended.

    Americans are scared for their families futures. Americans are tired, dead tired of the constant assault from the progressive left, and beating them down more serves no purpose whatsoever.

    Respectfully,
    JohnnyD

  • gekster

    I recently wrote a diary that was simply to get the for/against Palin people off of a good Mike Pence diary onto a for/against Palin diary and do thier fighting there.
    I even stated it as being so.
    That didn’t stop a certain few, and I mean very few, to trash the diary as not being this, and I was wrong about that, et cet.
    Don’t let it discourage you, as not matter what, there will allways be those
    types around.
    Don’t let a “fear of” stop you, as fear only allows you stop yourself.

  • rightwingmom52
  • Wubbies World

    That is at least how I understood it. It won’t be the first time I am wrong.

  • proudmarinemom

    There is an elite group here at Red State who seem to relish every opportunity to remind the less urbane, more idealistic and impressionable amongst us that they (we?) are cerebrally impaired. Mr. Crown did an outstanding job demonstrating his considerable intellectual superiority to those simpletons who, forgetting their proper stations, took the audacious deviation from the palm-lined path folowed by a cortege of admirers bearing him on his gestatorial chair. I don’t know him, nor was I a member here when he was at court. I wish him no ill luck whatsoever. But he offended some friends of mine (especially bob), and if he tries that with me personally, it will not go well.

    I am a guest here. I realize that and I appreciate the privilege of using this forum to learn and to speak my mind, at no cost. However, I believe I have that gift on hard terms when I have to tiptoe on eggshells to avoid bringing down the wrath of the likes of the condescending and mean old Mr. Crown and a few others.

    Flame me for this, if you must. I am speaking from the heart.

  • proudmarinemom

    .

  • lineholder

    Do you know that I literally, and I do mean LITERALLY, begged Mr. Crown to “take it someplace else”? It’s shameful, I know, but I don’t regret it. The situation was getting out of hand. It didn’t have to be that way.

    There’s a time and place for the brawls….I just don’t believe that RS should be the place.

  • lineholder

    that you are welcome here. There are plenty of us here who think much the same way that you do about the battle against progressives and the dangers that our country is facing.

  • conservativemusician

    And I am one of the random posters who e-mailed the contact form in recent days about the general lack of civility in the posting of late. I had no idea all the other stuff was going on – including suing RS – so this action taken by Erick was probably overdue and definitely necessary. I also know that the moderators take flack from lots of folks about lots of things, but in reading through the various threads, I have rarely seen a banning that wasn’t well deserved. I’m not trying to stir the pot any more than it has been the last few days, but it is time to get back to business now and move on. Just my 2 cents.

  • acat

    You know it when you see it.

    Mew

  • rightwingmom52

    but I feel better nonetheless. My sincerest thanks.

    By the way, I am thankful for moms like you (& dads) who send their sons to battle for us. That in itself is a contribution to the fight against Statism greater than most have made and makes you far from useless. I have a 20 year old in college, but nothing would have made me prouder than if he had chosen to enter the military.

  • Scope

    “Mr. Crown did an outstanding job demonstrating his considerable intellectual superiority to those simpletons who, forgetting their proper stations, took the audacious deviation from the palm-lined path folowed by a cortege of admirers bearing him on his gestatorial chair.” Bravo.

    I have wanted to say the same, though not as elegantly as you have, about the estimable Mr. Crown. EE had said that the place more or less melted down in his absense. That was an understatement. I had never heard of this guy before, and I will be happy if I never do again. It was like a hurricane had descended on Redstate on Saturday, and no one had the ability to stop the heavy downpour and the gale winds.

  • Jack_Savage

    Too often I have been the one who made the conversation bitter, and it is normally because I was completely and totally exasperated with the situation / subject / commenter.

    Yes, we disagreed mildly, but the point that you made was deep and interesting and worthy of a lot of thought. I like the controversial diaries that set forth a proposition then seek to defend it, especially when the author sticks around and hashes it out. I can say that as an aside, and interestingly, my understanding of theology has increased as much as anything by sticking around here.

    There are serious people here that know a hell of a lot, and the trick is to keep them coming back and have them not be crowded out.

  • Jack_Savage

    Politics ain’t beanbag, and if you are working the polls around a bunch of Democrats you better be ready to bring it and be able to take it. A few rounds of that real life back and forth can easily be carried over to the water cooler or the keyboard. I needed a ten foot buffer zone for a week after this last election.

    Theory and practice. Related but so different.

  • GregInFla
  • Crowe

    …you may scare people on RS, but we all know who God’s real rottweilers are!

    I still love you too.

  • Crowe

    Krempasky was my roommate at the time he and Ben would have conference calls in the dining room with the mysterious “Tacitus” about this new endeavor called “RedState.” It was the follow-up to a great thumb-in-the-eye site called “Pave France: The British Need More Parking” which they launched during the French dithering and delaying the Iraq War resolution at the U.N.

    And Ben doesn’t post here that often anymore, does he? Do you, Ben? I guess I could give him a call and ask, but ’tis not *that* important.

  • Bill S

    Like this one from this morning.

    Glad to see you again. Don’t be a stranger.

  • johnnyd

    Proudmarinemom thank you to you and your family for your families scarifice to our great country and the kind comment.

    Also a thank you to lineholder for the welcoming comment. It helps to know that we are not alone.

    And also thank you to GreginFla. I wish I was in Florida right now.

  • rabidcaveman

    and this site, besides patriotupdate, are the only sites I read.

    I don’t know of many other conservative blogs, but I hear that most of them, are conspiracy/birther/truther sites. I haven’t posted a diary yet, because every time I want to post something, someone else posts it, and writes it 500x better!!

    But I have seen the underbellies of a few people here in the comments, and it wasn’t looking pretty. As said up-thread, words like “idiot”, “dummy”, and other 8 year old acting, name calling, had to stop.

    I’m sure we’ll miss alot of names around here, but in the interest of common ground, decency to others, and a small amount of “discourse” with each other, we’ll be alright.

  • rabidcaveman

    n/t

  • FJG

    I am so sorry to hear that your father-in-law is gravely ill and dying. It is never easy for anyone (your father-in-law, your husband, you, and your families) to go through this experience. And it seems as if trials/troubles never occur singularly. However, it is in the midst of trails and tribulations that we tend to feel God’s presence more as we rely on Him to guide us through to the green pastures ahead.

    Penguin2, your father-in-law, your husband, your family and you are, and will continue to be, in my thoughts and prayers. I pray that God will make His presence evident as He provides you and yours the strength, wisdom, love, comfort and peace to get through such a difficult time in all of your lives.

    Sincerely,
    FJG