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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

On Intervention and Opposition to the Libyan Engagement

“Right now, the best case is simply to sit back and root for injuries between the warring parties in Libya — not intervening for either side.

Using the same rationale George W. Bush used to go into Iraq, Barack Obama has now gone into Libya.

It seems that the world is upside down. Suddenly Republicans are concerned about going into a Middle Eastern country and Democrats are gung-ho neocon warmongers.

The situation, of course, is not that simple.

Whether you think he lied, was misled, or was right, George W. Bush did make a case to Congress and the American people prior to going into Iraq that Iraq was training Al Qaeda and, given its weapons of mass destruction and ties to Al Qaeda, was an imminent threat to the United States.

Again, you can think he lied. You can think he was misled. You can think he was right.

But Bush went to the United Nations, got the appropriate resolutions, went before the American people to make his case, and before going into Iraq received Congressional approval. In fact, it took him a year and a half to make his case. When he went in, he had 80% public approval and a much larger international coalition than Obama is taking with him.

He also could articulate an idea for an endpoint, whether you liked it or not.

Feel free to disagree with every justification and feel free to disagree with his idea of an endpoint, but recognize the factual timeline.

Barack Obama, on the other hand, has failed at several of these things.

He did not persuade the American people prior to intervention that the need was there. In fact, while Bush had support from 80% of the public, Obama isn’t cracking 48% for Libya.

Obama did not make his case to Congress and did not get any sort of Congressional resolution prior to engaging in Libya. He, not Bush, rushed to war . . . er . . . to kinetic military action.

All of that, though, is fungible and can be nitpicked over. Here, though, is where many Republicans, including myself, get off the intervention boat.

We know very little about the rebels we are helping.

From what we do know, a few things are ascertainable:

With those points, many of us who are sympathetic to the idea of intervention are opposed to the intervention for the very simple reason that the regime we are supporting may be as bad, if not worse, than the regime we are opposing.

Right now, the best case is simply to sit back and root for injuries between the warring parties in Libya — not intervening for either side.

Oh, and if we are not interested in regime change and Gaddafi stays, he will become the menace to the United States he has not been since the 80′s.

COMMENTS

  • andystone

    peaceful, pro-democracy protesters (the Iranian opposition even won an election, for God’s sake), and went into the one s***hole where everyone was violent from the start. Just have a look at the timeline:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2011_Libyan_uprising#20_February

    The first concerns of Obama’s newfound buddies were to loot the weapon depots, hang policemen, burn public buildings, and rob the banks.

  • Next93

    The real reason we had to take out Saddam was that he signed a peace treaty with us to end Gulf War I and never fulfilled his part of the agreement.

    The Dems allowed North Vietnam to get away with that in 1970, and Saddam figured he could get away with it, too. He played us for suckers for 12 years and was in the process of bribing our “allies” to end the sanctions.

    If we had allowed him to succeed, the US would never again be able to sign a peace treaty and expect it to be worth more than the paper it was printed on. And THAT constitutes a strategic interest.

    Basically, Bush 43 did what Clinton and Bush 41 (and, apparently, Obama) lacked the intestinal fortitude to do.

  • Cheetah772

    Should we intervene over there? I think SYrian government is now taking extreme measures to put down the rebellion (or protests, if you like). Assad regime is bad as Gaddafi regime is. So, will we see similar actions undertaken by the US against Syrian government?

    Somehow I don’t think so. Therefore it’s really useless to talk about the necessity of intervention in Libya if we are not willing to do it consistently.

    Do you agree?

  • andystone

    than Qaddafi. It has massacred tens of thousands of its own citizens in the ’80s, and it has been consistently anti-American, supportive of terrorists and a huge menace to Israel with its WMD programs.Qaddafi is by no means a liberal democrat, but he has no genocidal history, has given up terrorism and WMDs, and has been an ally in the War on Terror until Obama attacked him.

  • PubliusII

    for better or worse, the United States is involved in Libya now. I agree that we should have stayed out, but that is beside the point, because we are in.

    Whether we like it or not, the de facto policy of the three strongest Western powers is regime change. Unfortunately, no one will admit that, but the world knows that the West is committed to Qaddafi’s exile or death.

    Because the West has committed to Qaddafi’s fall, if he stays in power the world will interpret his survival as a defeat for the West. This would be a defeat of the first order. Our enemies around the world will be emboldened.

    I agree that we know very little (nothing?) about the opposition, and that they may prove to be as bad or worse than Qaddafi. But Qaddafi’s fall will be perceived as a Western victory, even if the new Libyan regime is as bad as the old regime.

    Unfortunately, at this point the question seems to be: does the Western intervention result in a Western victory or a Western defeat? We cannot avoid this binary choice. If that is our choice, I say we have to drive Qaddafi from power, even if the new Government of Libya proves to be worse. We may have to confront them next. But first we have to prevent a Qaddafi voctory over us.

  • andystone

    probably one more attainable: partition. Qaddafi has apparently coalesced sufficient support in West Libya for now, and while gradually increasing pressure might cause his supporters to desert him, it is nevertheless a gamble that leaves the outcome at the ultimate discretion of a bunch of tribal chieftains who may ultimately decide to stick with him. Committing ground forces will be expensive, will take a while to accomplish, and has no popular support; arming and organizing the rebels is somewhat cheaper, but will take even longer and will be a truly disastrous action if the weapons end up being used by Islamic radicals against our own soldiers, as seems quite likely.

    Partition, on the other hand, is easily attainable and enforceable. Air force can keep Qaddafi confined to Western Libya while the rebels have a chance to set up their own government and show the world what they stand for. The West can reasonably claim victory,and more reasonable policies can be arrived at on an informed basis.

  • toothpick

    Henry Kissinger once said of the Iran / Iraq war: “It’s a pity they can’t both lose.”

    I think that applies here, between Qaddaffi and his Al Qaeda-based opposition.

  • edintexas

    And what cosmic rule decrees that we can’t walk away from it? We’ll still be the “biggest and baddest” military in the world, with a wimp for CIC, and Administration only interested in image (thus avoiding any analogous situation where there might actually be resistance to the US use of force).

  • controse

    Impeach the Prince.