« BACK  |  PRINT

RS

EDITOR OF REDSTATE

House Republicans Leaders Want Democrats, Not Conservatives, To Vote For Their Budget

The Washington Post reports that the House Republicans, instead of picking a fight for real spending cuts, are set to woo House Democratic “moderates” to vote for the GOP budget instead of conservatives.

This is really amazing.

In other words, the House Republicans have decided to reject defunding Obamacare and reject defunding Planned Parenthood and reject defunding NPR. Instead, they will get House Democrats together and marginalize conservatives.

Why?

Because the House GOP is desperately afraid of a government shutdown.

With no spine, the GOP will fold and show no leadership. This is precisely what leadership by fear does. So fearful of a shutdown, the GOP will sell its soul, betray its base, and out negotiate itself all because it is scared of its own shadow.

Game over.

COMMENTS

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    The devil is in the details. Let us see, first if they can get any Democrats, and second, what sort of compromise can they get.

    I never really expected them to be brave, but the current leadership at least seems a little less stupid than past GOP leadership, so let’s just see if they can cut anything.

  • earlgrey

    WI and OH GOP instead. Money talks.

  • boonerdan

    This is just as I expected. While it is true that the voters sent many new faces to Washington last November, the GOP “leadership” (I use that term very loosely) is full of the same crew of worthless pretenders that have been there for years.

    The purging of the GOP will take more than one election cycle. We need to stay the course. Reward those who deserve it, and REMOVE the rest.

  • http://www.objectivistcenter.org/ Eric Olsen

    Well, it was nice while it lasted.

    I disagree with just about everything the Democrat Party stands for, but at least they’ve got the cajones to strike while the iron’s hot.

    The GOP seemingly wants to fail.

  • fpete13527

    This is completely pitiful and completely disgraceful.

    The GOP House is only concerned about pleasing two groups – leftist progressives and squish middles (and not only because they are cowards, although they are.)

    The GOP House leadership (especially Boehner and Cantor) want things to stay progressive because they like it it that way.

    Primaries start now.

  • AceInTX

    can anyone tell me why we even vote every 2, 4 and 6 years?

    We have the Democrats actively trying to destroy the country and turn us into a European Socialist utopia and we have Republicans actively helping them while a passive and cowardly Republican leadership working to help them preserve the gains the Dems make towards their goal after we put Republicans in the majority to roll them back.

    so…when we lose…we lose…and when we win we lose…and the long slow march towards a marxist wet dream continues!

    I’m so sick of this!!!

  • AceInTX

    the current leadership at least seems a little less stupid than past GOP leadership,

  • earlgrey
  • jiminga

    and never will be. Both parties are driven by the need to be re-elected and will never do what’s necessary to right the ship. Better to just wait for the collapse, after which we can re-write the rules…..term limits and eliminate the Fed. It’s time to return to the Founders idea of citizen legislators.

  • Paul_In_Houston

    … as Sarah Palin put it, on another issue. :(
    -

  • http://www.planettron.com nickderinger

    This is unaceptable

  • Bobcat51

    ..are looking like a massive fail. I wonder how many indepndents who voted for the Republicans now understand they voted in a pair of wimps. The pair of them resemble wet bus tickets in a leadership role. The time was right for strong forceful leadsership to counter the march of Marxism, sadly Boehner and Cantor are in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don’t think the Tea Party are going to be able to forgive them for their ineptness.How long before we hear the call for a third party ?

  • jtlfromfredmd

    and a part of me just wants to hang my head and turn out the lights and close the door. How anyone in the GOP leadership cannot look at the results of the last election as a desperate cry from the people to make drastic changes is completely beyond me. We, the people, sent our message. If they don’t get it now, they never will. I’ve given time, money and a lot of heart and soul the last few years for the changes we saw in the 2010 elections and for what? For what? I’m about ready to just give up. Any therapists in the RS house?

  • mich22

    I was watching FoxNews last night, and I picked up on this. Basically, the best the Republicans are trying to get with this 2011 budget, even the tea party Republicans, is something around 100 billion dollars. The Dems want about 30, and they’re haggling over the difference. The Republicans don’t want a shutdown because they know the Dems and media are very good at demagoguing the whole thing for political benefit, and I can’t argue that. Americans are pretty fickle, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they side with the liberals on this.
    BUT, and here’s the rub…
    If we could just get past this, the real budget cuts, the ones we all know we need, are in entitlement reform, and those lie in Paul Ryan’s next budget, which is right around the corner. We get to that as soon as this fight is over. And, in PR’s budget, we’re talking about trillions of dollars, and we have a very sincere and brilliant spokesperson in Ryan. The House Repubs know this, and they are trying to in a political sense, stay alive and stay ahead of this so that they can actually be victorious with the Ryan cuts.
    This is what I understood from watching last night. All in all, we need to hold these guys accountable, but also make sure we are looking at the same chessgame that they are. The goal is BIG CUTS, not a few billion dollars.
    Let’s not forget that in our founding if we only had the principled Adams and Jefferson, and no Franklin working the political angles with skill and careful measurement, we probably wouldn’t have achieved independence.

  • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack

    The Dems solved an optimization problem in 2009. They got the best budget in terms of amount and ideological slant that they are going to probably get for the next 20 years. Any future budget that gets passed during Charles Schumer’s regrettable lifespan will be at least a partial failure in Sen. Schumer’s august opinion. As long as Sen. Schumer’s party controls the Senate, he and his partisans will have to be dragged kicking and screaming into anything remotely resembling an honest budgeting process. They would prefer that history end in 2009 A.D.

  • http://www.itsaboutliberty.com IronDioPriest

    …have just about run their course. If ObamaCare stands and the government continues to spend our posterity into servitude, the country as we know it is lost and American liberty will fade from humanity; that much is clear.

    Yet the question still remains, “Are we going to be a constitutional republic moving forward, or something entirely different?”

    Just because our politicians have failed us does not mean the republic must die. It can be reborn, but it will take extra-political effort.

    We’ve encouraged, pled, begged, and demanded. But we haven’t forced.

  • izoneguy

    $20 Billion

    $60 Billion

    $100 Billion

    Means nothing when Obama & the dems want to push a 3.7 TRILLION dollar budget.

    A shut down is what is needed. If the Republicans are afraid of a shutdown then they just need to quit now and let real leaders take their place. 2012 will be ugly for Democrats & Republicans alike. No one can hide from the stupidity that is the Federal Government. This government needs to dismantled. All they are talking about is screwing a nut.

  • theericker

    Can the house have a vote of no-confidence, and remove the incompetent Boehner from speaker?

    If so, we should organize a money bomb campaing and donate heavily to congressmen that vote for his ouster AND vote to replace him with Bachmann, or another true conservative. I don’t want any other back bencher lib republicans to replace him.

    To parrot some comments above, I don’t give a rats behind about their proposed $60B vs $30B in cuts, it’s inconsequential. Leave that for now and tie it ALL to the full repeal of Obamacare. None of this de-funding b.s., full repeal, or shut down the government. They could actually campaign and engage the American people on that issue.

  • http://www.AmericanThinker.com Hammer2008

    The goal for 2012 should be to take back the WH, Senate and short of booting squishy republican representatives during their respective primary, encourage a vote of “present” in the failing House GOP leadership’s general elections.

    When the majority of the House GOP caucus is conservative and/or Teaparty then power will have finally shifted.

  • carolina

    battle.
    We need to get the last 6 months of FY2011 put to bed so the GOP can focus on the opportunity to do a total FY2012 budget. The system is against them for the CR. The House will have a lot more control in FY 2012.
    That’s the way I see it.
    I DO wish they could cut more now. I totally blame the dems, and not the GOP.

  • carolina

    battle.
    We need to get the last 6 months of FY2011 put to bed so the GOP can focus on the opportunity to do a total FY2012 budget. The system is against them for the CR. The House will have a lot more control in FY 2012.
    That’s the way I see it.
    I DO wish they could cut more now. I totally blame the dems, and not the GOP.

  • http://www.scragged.com petrarch

    Revolutions and collapses rarely work out as planned. I’d prefer to avoid them if possible, and so would you if you think about it.

  • conservvoter

    is akin to watching the Dems ram Obamacare down our throats. Only this time it’s worse because we’re being stabbed in the back by the spineless GOP leadership.

    They will lose everything if they’re stupid enough to listen to the likes of Reid and Schumer.

  • edintexas

    I take it you will always opt for half full. But where, in that optimistic view of Republicans, do you find the ability to believe they will have the spine for the fight “the next time”? Do you really believe they are willing to court the Democrats, abandoning the Conservative vote, in order to get past the current problem and “get tough” on the next budget?

    Even allowing that the WaPo is hardly a reliable source, it isn’t very difficult to believe their reporting is pretty close to the truth in this matter, History is on their side in evaluating the probability of Republicans folding in the face of Democrat obstructionism.

  • Change Jar Conservative

    One of the things that conservatives don’t seem to get is that just because someone doesn’t share your IMPLEMENTATION (i.e. government shutdown) doesn’t mean that they don’t share your VALUES.

    This is a case of where conservatives really need to wait one more election to do these things — a GOP lead Senate and a GOP president will be enough to get these things through.

    Now, if you want to force a vote to shame the Democratic Senators then go for it, but don’t make this out as the leadership isn’t REALLY conservative just because they don’t want to dance to your particular tune.

    You are BETTING that the GOP won’t get hurt by a government shutdown.

    They are BETTING that this would backfire and detract from national momentum.

    But you’re both BETTING. Neither one of you knows for sure that you are correct.

  • realvoice2010

    moderate democrats to solve our fiscal problemes. They are a major cause of tax and spend policies. They can’t do anything that gives up spending on their pet left wing projects. On the other hand, we are free, despite the RINOs in the GOP. We cannot wait for several election cycles to “fundamentally change” our United States. We have got to punish the current crop of new GOP legislators that are not performing, and also get rid of the deadwood republicrats.

  • Wubbies World

    I guess we need to purge more Republicans in the primaries in 2012. It is sad to find out that they still don’t get it. However, I think we need to focus on leadership being purged in the primaries this time.

  • lineholder

    Sounds like Repub leadership has been around Obama et al too long.

  • Common_Cents
  • http://www.timelyrenewed.com timelyrenewed

    Even if a Republican Congress became truly fiscally conservative, that is a retail solution when the problem is wholesale. We need to redress the underlying distortions of the Constitution which have allowed the federal government to expand far beyond its original constitutional powers, not nitpick at separate individual usurpations. We need to amend the Constitution to restore the original constitutional structure which limited the federal government’s ability to expand to such a ridiculous size and power.

    However, this is difficult to achieve when Congress holds a monopoly on initiating constitutional amendments. The solution is an “amendment amendment” which gives the States the ability to initiate constitutional amendments without a convention. This will allow grassroots constitutionalists to press a program of amendments carefully drafted to achieve the restoration of the original constitutional structure as well as such useful improvements as a balanced budget amendment without having to go through Washington at all. Only this will permanently constrain federal overreach of the sort rejected by the people last November. See http://www.timelyrenewed.com

  • Change Jar Conservative

    Again … I think there are reasons to do this, but taking an APPROACH that you don’t like doesn’t seem like a good reason to primary people.

  • writeblock

    So do Cantor and Ryan for that matter. Why should we worry if the government shuts down. Would the public really care if some national parks close or some individuals can’t get passports? As long as vital operations are sustained, it won’t matter. The message will be sent loud and clear that the GOP means business. The GOP can make its case at that point–the country is broke, the WH needs to deal with this. Right now the House leadership is a joke. If fact the entire GOP response to the Tea Party initiative is a joke–and I include Walker in this–a wimp who waited too long to do what he needed to do–and still didn’t have the guts to bang some protesters’ heads together before they trashed his capitol and promulgated death threats. I am so sick of self-doubting nice guys trying to fight a civil war by half-assed measures! We hold some cards–play them!

  • Diogenes314

    Or ‘squishes’ as the poster below stated. Obsessing over a few billion in last year’s discretionary budget is nothing but a distraction from the real job that needs to get done, namely tackling the 2012 budget, including entitlements, and more urgently doing something to stimulate job growth. If the House passes 30 billion with a rescission on Obamacare funds and EPA greenhouse regulations, and this helps boost confidence among employers and investors, that would do more to help the deficit by spurring growth than 60 billion or 100 billion in immediate cuts.

    For that matter, a temporary CR going from 2 billion a week to 3 billion a week with the EPA rider would be better than letting the fire-eaters here and elsewhere push them into deliberately shutting down the government.

    As far as looking for Blue Dog votes to replace the misguided squishes pandering to RS and the like instead of standing firm against Reid and Obama, has it occurred to anyone that the one way the GOP does get blamed for any future government shutdown would be for the left to point to the constant screeching among the scorched earth True Believers for them to do precisely that?

  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Jacobson get2djnow

    I can write a prescription for you, bit it won’t be as awesome as the hallucinogens that Boehner & Cantor are taking.

  • whiskey_sierra

    More and more its clear the republic is dead and our only hope for the future of America is to STOP focusing on the next election cycle, and instead of funding the R-party.

    Elections at this point, Dem or Rep are just a ‘re-arranging’ of the deck chairs on the Titanic every 4 years, the ship is going DOWN no matter who is at the helm.

    Lest stop wasting effort and money on the parties, and start focusing on a massive public campaign to educate the American-idol-crowd and the STATE houses on the importance of either having an Article V convention or succession by numerous states.

    Washington WILL NOT change on its own. The states will have to force it, or the country is doomed.

    Such ideas might be considered ‘out there’ or ‘kooky’ by some….but just like 1774, its becoming clearer every day what must happen to remain free.

    How much more are you willing to put up with?

    Is there EVER going to be a point where your fed up enough to do something radical?

    Are we too enslaved and subservient to ever have any chance of having a free country again?

  • juumanistra

    You’ve gone and urged that folks have perspective on budgetary matters. Can’t be having any of that: Didn’t you get memo that refusal to pass a continuing resolution using the FY2000 baseline is the current litmus test for purity within the Republican Party?

    Honestly, Ryan can’t unveil his budget soon enough, if only to put an end to this silliness, on way or the other.

  • http://pocketchangeproductions.net/ anotherindyfilmguy

    Quit being afraid of being scapegoated by the dems!

    Most people who care half a damn know the truth of the the matter and they media can’t effectively cover for them forever.

    Let the Dems shut down the government and then go on a media blitz against them for it – steal a page from their playbook and devastate them with the truth for a change instead of being pathetic reactionary wusses.

  • whiskey_sierra

    >a GOP lead Senate and a GOP president will be enough to get these things through.

    Really?

    See: Medicare Drug Benefits

  • Diogenes314

    Isn’t he just another spineless RINO squish?

  • Diogenes314

    We need a divider, not a uniter.

  • writeblock

    Boehner began his tenure by pledging to restore “fairness” to the opposition. That should have worried us right away. Unlike Nancy who knew we were in a cold civil war and was willing to act ruthlessly in the name of her cause, Boehner seemed determined from the outset to play nice.

    Big mistake. He also made some pledges he either had no intention of keeping–in which case he’s shown himself to be an out-and-out cynic–or, is too worried about political consequences to follow through–in which case he’s a political coward–or was too stupid to realize he’d be held to his word. Maybe he’s all three. In any case, he’s a weak leader who inspires little confidence in the rank and file.

  • baserunr

    steps to the left, then we can dance to the right? It’s better to fight later than to stake out a position now? The media will portray WHATEVER the R’s do in a massively negative light. So what are we waiting for?
    You’re BETTING that the base will continue to stay sufficiently energized so the R’s can prevail in 2012.
    You’re BETTING the D’s base won’t be energized by the fact that the R’s put up no fight at all, and are portrayed by the media to be “in a box”. And finally you’re BETTING that even if the R’s win the day in 2012, they’ll have sufficient spine to pursue and succeed in getting their legislation through. I wish I shared your optimism.

  • writeblock

    nt.

  • juumanistra

    He’s willing to talk to Lefties like Alice Rivkin. Heck, he even sat on Obama’s deficit reduction panel: QED, he’s a tainted RINO who needs to be purged for the good of the Republic.

    On a more serious note, the histrionics that come up whenever Republicans back even an inch away from H.R. 1 are wearing. We’re arguing over cuts ranging into the dozens of billions of dollars for the current fiscal year, of which there are five months left. That’s certainly not a reliable metric for whether the GOP House has betrayed the spirit of the 2010 midterms. Ryan’s budget, conveniently enough, is a reasonable metric: Either it’ll hit the right notes or it won’t, and if it’s the latter, then crying the sky is falling will actually be in order, as the House’s budget is the GOP’s official alternative to what the Dems are peddling.

  • writeblock

    A lot of the same people who complain about the House leadership were advocates for wimps as presidential material merely because they were ideologically correct. It’s not enough that candidates are right on the issues. We need some s.o.b.s at the top–ruthless, determined, happy warriors, men–or women–who relish the fight. I’m sick and tired of types like Boehner.

  • runner12

    Fox news. This is exactly what my Rep. (Rep. Lankford) outlined in his recent town hall meeting and he is quite serious about reducing the debt. They are touting that this is all part of a plan. When Lankford starts railing against the leadership, then I will be really concerned.

    That being said, I think Erick is right to hold their feet to the fire at every turn. It reminds them who it is who puts them in office and who can take them out. They need to be assured that if the fiscal budget for 2012 is in any way weak or insufficient with regards to cuts, then they will be in boiling hot water with their constituents.

    So I do not think that now is the time to panic, but we do need to continue to put on the pressure them to reduce the debt.

  • writeblock

    Check his speech during the WI standoff in which he pleaded with the Dems to act reasonably, arguing both sides of the aisle should get along. He obviously had no clue as to why Dems would do what they did–i.e., do anything necessary to put a halt to a bill they didn’t like–an attitude most Republicans in Washington can’t really appreciate, given their poor overall performance during the Health Care fiasco. But Ryan hasn’t a clue. He wants to play nice.

  • Diogenes314

    Carry on with the revolution.

  • juumanistra

    Your complaint isn’t about the substance of Paul Ryan or his fiscal proposals. Heck, it’s not even about his movement bona fides. It’s that he’s not a fire-breathing knife-fighter who lives for the thrill of the political fight. That, because his tactic of first resort is not to attempt to kneecap the opposing party, he is obviously incapable of doing anything.

    Aren’t we the guys who usually complain about the Left’s love of Alinskyism and politics as a blood sport? If those are bad — which I steadfastly think they are — then we have to accept that our guys will have to play by a different set of rules from the Left, if only to keep from selling out our own principles.

  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Jacobson get2djnow

    I remember hearing this somewhere.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Do you people write that as a reflex no matter what the context?

    Bringing it up out of context just brings the idea to ridicule. Justifiably.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I stopped reading there. Delusional.

  • TS Atomic

    Ok, so the *ONLY* remedy we have is to call, email & fax our displeasure? Like Boehner give’s a rats patoot about you or me complaining. Rather, he might cry about it, but that won’t make him grow a spine and do what’s needed.

    We’re screwed. Further evidence that we’re screwed is the near silence from the Tea-Party crowd. They were all full of starch during the election, but now they’s faded into the background. They either agree with this feckless republican leadership -or- the current leadership has proven so disheartening that most have simply given up. I’m thinking the latter.

    We’ve lit up the phone lines. We’ve “Shellacked” them in the last election. It has all been (apparently) just to empower the same old spineless republicans.

    Short of an active, shooting rebellion (and we shouldn’t go there), what’s left that the constituency can do that would have any effect at all? I’m asking, serious as a heart attack. WTF else can be done?

    I think the next level of escalation would need to be some sort of “no-confidence” mechanism to toss out Boehner & his sobbing clique of lavendar-lads (or whatever his supporters call themselves). But, we (as a national constituencey) don’t have a “no-confidence” option. Presumably Boehner’s home state could recall him, but that’s not even remotely realistic.

    The debt these bastards are inflicting on us (and our children for the next few generations) will destroy us and there’s not a damn thing anyone can do about it that will have any meaningful effect to the extent that we can stop, or even slow down, the impending train wreck. We could have a thousand “Erickson’s” blogging 24/7 on all major outlets and we will *STILL* be shackled with sodding crap leaders in congress, who I’m certain are *WELL* aware of the base’s dissatisfaction with their malfeasance.

    So: We. Are. Screwed. I’ll go down fighting, but I’m enough of a realist to recognize that all my efforts will be futile as long as we keep propping up the GOP. The same GOP who keeps screwing us with Boehners and his ilk in leadership positions.

  • Diogenes314

    …is that the ‘shut it down now’, scorched earth types railing against incrementalism and patience actually think they are the ‘conservatives’.

  • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack

    who believe there should be no more changes in the Federal Budget after 2009, get called Progressive.

  • juumanistra

    There is little question that those advocate shutting the government down yesterday over the Senate’s refusal to pass H.R. 1 are conservatives, as the term is broadly used to describe the political Right that embraces limited government and fiscal prudence. Admittedly, they tend to have more libertine streak than the abstracted conservative, and the anarchist rumblings that turn up in comments threads about “politics having run their course” are disconcerting to the abstract conservative’s Inner Burkean, but I’d still say they’re within the big tent established by modern conservative fusionism.

    That said, I think such intemperate impatience is horridly wrongheaded and liable to do much greater harm than good to the cause, but those are differences of opinion on tactics rather than ideology.

  • TS Atomic

    You *clearly* have not been paying attention. Another election that results in a GOP majority house, senate & oval office will mean exactly what? Will Boehner magically grow a spine? We “shellacked” the dems in the last election and what behavior has it resulted in? We keep empowering the same RINOs over and over and expecting different results.

    Patience my “4th point of contact” — I’m stinking TIRED of “concilliation”. They’ve been concilliating since I cast my first vote (Reagan) and it has *NEVER* acheived the intended result and has *ALWAYS* backfired.

    As long as the GOP is calling the shots, we will have Boehners, McCains, Grahams, Snowes, etc calling the shots, chairing committees, ready, willing and able to prostitute their principles at the drop of a hat to cave in on any issue, just so they can get good press coverage. THEY’VE DONE IT TIME AFTER TIME AFTER TIME! We keep expecting different results with the same type of idiots in charge. however, we only have ourselves to blame. For some unknown reason, we keep electing these jokers.

    There is one decent outsider that may possibly run, but the conventional wisdom is that the brainiac pundits and bloggers who know so much better than everyone else says she’s unelectable, so she shouldn’t even bother running. With that mindset, we’ll wind up with Romney and he will bring “concilliation” to a whole new, unexplored level. Of course (as you say) I’m just betting on that. But sometimes the odds are so high in one possibility that it can be safely considered a “sure bet”.

  • whiskey_sierra

    Maybe so, Niel.

    But, I have a feeling the next generation will decide which one of us is really delusional.

  • leftylurker

    If there was more of this, I would vote R more often. I voted for Snyder in Michigan because he was this type of Republican.

  • writeblock

    as long as he’s got a pair. And I don’t care about playing by the rules–if nobody else is obeying the rules. We’re in a damn war–it’s time Republican leadership showed they understand this. I’m not asking much. I’m not asking for a knife-fighter looking for thrills–though that would be terrifically refreshing. I’m not even asking that Ryan kneecap somebody–though it would fine by me. I’m just asking that he and his buddies keep their damn word. They PLEDGED something. Now the bill is due and they’re reneging. They deserve all the flak they’re getting–and more. Ryan is part of the problem. It doesn’t matter how brainy he is if he folds at the first provocation.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Third parties tend to happen because of fringe movements and/or massive egos.

    Neither predicts success, which is why third parties fail. We’ve had top-two parties fail exactly twice: Once because the Federalists decided to put partisanship over not being treasonous, and again when judicial activism radicalized the slavery issue and split the Whigs.

    And no, already-existing third parties don’t succeed in place of the big parties that fail, either. After the Federalists failed, we had essentially one party rule for years after. And after the Whigs failed, the Democrats cleaned up, the American party rose and fell. Lincoln only won because the Democrats also split that year.

  • eddiethegeek

    How, pray tell, does one become “victorious” with the Ryan Cuts if one cannot get a paltry $100B of cuts passed?

    Shut down the damn government. Let the media say what they will.

    It appears that we have austerity coming to our shores (see Great Britain) no matter who’s in charge. It appears that it doesn’t matter whether we have Mister Speaker or Madame Speaker – nothing’s getting done. If the freshmen had any balls, they’d force Boehner out.

  • writeblock

    They pledged something. Is it too much to ask that they keep their word to the American people who put them in control on that basis? What “cause” are you thinking about? As far as I can see, their only cause is to avoid a messy fight–one we can win if they showed some determination.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Who exactly are you implicitly calling unreasonable here, leftylurker.

    You owe an apology.

  • mkozikowski

    N. Pelosi is destined to be the most effective SoH we have ever seen.
    She did not bow to pressure.
    She made destiny instead of waiting or hoping.

    The present SoH appears to be a spineless weasel who is there to be there. Instead of there to run The House.
    Perhaps 2012 will bring us a new, more Conservative SoH, and Mr. Boehner can then go back to raising chickens or worms or something low pressure like that.

  • juumanistra

    The hill you’re asking the GOP House to die upon is a five month continuing resolution for a budgetary baseline they didn’t craft. What does dying on this particular hill accomplish, exactly? To prove that the Republicans are “serious” about deficit reduction? That H.R. 1′s policy riders worth the maelstrom that’ll be kicked up by a government suchdown? How are both not accomplished by giving the House GOP another two weeks to roll out its budget, which will in all probability account for both?

    The 112th Congress has been in session for three months. These things take time. At the very least, let the House GOP roll out the actual budget it’s crafted before accusing it of folding at the drop of a hat on fiscal matters.

  • leftylurker

    Who were offended that they were being called unreasonable.

    I want people who will actually govern to run the government, not people who want to grandstand to raise money or position themselves for their next run. I am disappointed with President Obama, because he doesn’t seem to want to do it, and i LOVE Governor Snyder who is actually making hard choices and trying to fix the state.

  • taylerdog23
  • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

    …but this kind of impatience is how conservatives got into the mess we’re in. CW has it right: you need a strategy that can work and time to effect it. Not that his program is the only string in the bow, but (mixing metaphors) expecting the ship of state to immediately turn 180 degrees with a single push of the tiller is not a workable strategy.

  • writeblock

    The GOP was born out of a third party movement when the Whigs proved inadequate to deal with the slavery issue. We’re at another critical juncture in the nation’s history–on the brink of fiscal disaster. The GOP is proving inadequate so far to the demands of the times. I’m not advocating a third party by saying this. But the Tea Party movement is more than just another historical blip. It crosses party lines and has all the earmarks of a party waiting to be born.

    I’m in agreement that 2012 is a final step for the GOP–either towards dissolution or resolution. If we nominate another wimp and try to do business-as-usual with the usual players and the usual mindset–the GOP will have shown itself inadequate to meet the demands of the times.

  • Diogenes314

    Refer to his last sentence. Not only did Lincoln only win because of a three way race against him, but the Democrats had majorities in both houses of Congress in 1861.

  • writeblock

    The Tea Party has all the earmarks of a MAJOR party waiting to be born. It’s not a Bull Moose or Libertarian fringe phenomenon. It’s massive–and could grow even bigger if it creates a party structure. It includes an impetus towards a 10th Amendment resurgence and recent calls for a constitutional convention to demand a balanced budget amendment. It’s not another fringe group and it’s not propelled by big egos.

  • Diogenes314

    First principles-we need our priorities straight.

    The whole focus of the debate for the last few months has been on the amount of cuts in last year’s discretionary budget and how best to obtain them. The party line seems to be that anything less than 100 Billion or 60 Billion dollars is a sellout, and that obtaining said cuts incrementally is cowardice. Presumably, this is because of concerns about the deficit. The problem:

    14 trillion-60 billion=Who Cares?

    There are two things needed to right this ship, one of which has been put on hold and the other almost totally ignored-entitlement reform and job growth respectively and not in that order. With all of the talk of ‘broken promises’ go back and read the Pledge to America. A lot is in there about creating jobs, and all we are talking about is these piddling amounts of savings. Let me say it plain- The Only Way Out Of This Budget Crisis Is With Economic Growth.

    Period.

    Currently tax revenues are at their lowest as a function of GDP since Truman’s presidency. In order to have the revenues to match the spending cuts we need to focus on policies that encourage investment, spending and hiring. By the private sector, Mr. President.

    My suggestion:

    1) Repeal the EPA Greenhouse mandates.
    2) Ensure a cost benefit analysis and congressional oversite of all new mandates.
    3) Defund Obamacare.
    4) Enact a small business tax deduction.
    5) Remove domestic drilling restrictions (including ANWR).

    Of course, we have to get all of this by the Senate, none of which they can tolerate. One solution-continue with the gradual approach, including one or two of the above at a time. Let them shut the government down to protect the EPA, an unconstitutional act or the caribou. And let them explain it afterward.

    If I recall, they have 22 Senators up for re-election to our 12.

    Time is on our side. If we play it smart.

  • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

    My e-mail is civil_truth (with the underline) at yahoo.com.

    You’ve always seemed like someone willing to converse respectfully (or at least most of the time, nobody’s perfect).

  • writeblock

    I’m suggesting a problem exists and the GOP either faces it or it will give impetus to the creation of a force that will. That force is already latent and awaits only the striking of a match to trigger an explosion.

  • edwyrd

    The states are the engine room of the american ship. And the 2010 election gave us some real “engineers” that are instituting aggressive “leak stopping”.
    Maybe from this crop will come our next captain. 2012?- maybe not, 2016? – if we still have a country.
    Contrast the governors making the tough decisions with the states and govenors NOT doing so ( moonbeam in calif, Quinn of illinois) and what you have is a nice “petri dish” of economics and politics. The experiment will prove the equation.
    The titanic will be saved, her integrity restored, her course corrected because we will do it ourselves, pulling our beards, ripping our shirts and kicking our dogs the whole way.
    I see more and more of my liberal friends every day listening a little more and asking more questions with that puzzled, queer, bleary-eyed, oh god I may be wrong look.
    I will take the scraps from the emperors table. they can make their compromises. But they won’t be there in 2, 4, or 6 years hence. we will have our good ship and we will have our congress as a body of public servants.
    Barbara bachmann, allen west, and their like will emerge as our leaders.

    I say this, ENJOY THE FIGHT, it makes us stronger and really demoralizes the enemy. We will win, it may take a looong time, but we will win!

  • leftylurker

    I may take you up on that. Some of my best friends are people who have ideas that challenge mine.

    And anyone with a C.S. Lewis quote as a sig has something going for them.

    =)

  • chihank

    According to this morning’s CNN poll, the Tea Party’s favorables are at +32 / -47. Perhaps, Bohener and Cantor are trying to improve the GOp’s favorables by distancing themselves from the Tea Party.

  • juumanistra

    The cause which I refer to is the advancement is fiscal prudence and the restoration of sanity to the nation’s finances.

    There is nothing wrong with holding the GOP’s feet to the fire to guarantee that the Pledge with America is honored. The problem is that, in its desire to see the Pledge enacted with great haste, there has been a propensity to go off the deep-end with regard to criticism of the Republican Party: Here, for instance, the bad faith assumption that the House GOP is looking for a compromise on the continuing resolution only because it lacks the will to fight. Certainly there is an aversion to risk a governmental shut down and the messy fight it would entail: Given that the last one set conservative fiscal policy back a decade, the House GOP’s aversion could just as easily be rooted in a genuine belief that more to the cause will be done by a shutdown than by compromising.

    I know that the idea of choosing one’s fights can look disconcertingly like cowardice at times like this, but if the warning klaxons of the House GOP “selling out” keep being sounded over every inch that is backed away from H.R. 1, then by the time they do something that really is intolerable the klaxons will have long since lost their effectiveness.

  • Diogenes314

    Conservatism (Latin: conservare, “to preserve”) is a political and social philosophy that promotes the maintenance of traditional institutions and supports, at the most, minimal and gradual change in society.

  • gracie

    Anybody know anybody who can actually get through to Boehner and Cantor??

  • The_Gadfly

    It is the warm-up for the big fight. If they can’t manage the powder-puff, there’s no way they manage the main event. If Republicans fold on the extremist charges on the discretionary budget, it’s game over before Ryan says a word about so-called entitlements.

  • mich22
  • The_Gadfly

    If they aren’t willing to win there, they’ll fold thrice as quick when the big one comes.

  • The_Gadfly

    one of the established ones commits suicide and then disaster follows. Better to tell the established party it’s on its way to suicide. If it doesn’t pay attention, plan accordingly.

  • juumanistra

    “Conservatives” want a through-and-through overhaul of most of the institutions of government, greatly reducing the size and scope of it in the process. How long must an institution exist in order to be considered “traditional”? Social Security’s been in existence for nearly eight decades: Should “conservatives” seek to preserve it? Most certainly not, as most readers of this site would cry, because preserving Social Security as it has existed for eight decades will help guarantee Fiscal Armageddon, to say nothing of the perversities that are rampant in the program. What about the edifice of Wagnerian unionism? As a creature of the Depression, it too ought to be offered a fair amount of deference by “conservatives”, but most around here would gladly grab their torches and pitchforks to join in tearing it down.

    We’ve never used “conservative” in the political context that it was in Europe, where conservatism was defined by monarchism and resisting the rising tide of Romantic ideas. All American conservatives are classical liberals, with all of the horrible nomenclatural problems that causes given the expropriation of the word “liberal” by the political Left following the fall of Progressivism.

  • lineholder

    Haven’t you heard that the propaganda technique of the week for the left is to paint Tea Party as “extreme”?

    Boehner and Cantor are more afraid of conservatives than they are of the Dems because we provide a threat to the “establishment”.

  • mich22

    He or she is making sense, friends. We are all principled conservatives here. Look at our history and you’ll find lots of examples (I mentioned Franklin, but there’s many others) of great Americans picking their battles, and having a big picture view with long term goals that are actually accomplished. Let’s not throw each other under the bus for having these tactical discussions. We can’t afford to do that.

  • Diogenes314

    I merely said it was humorous. In this context, gradualism and restraint is still the conservative stance. The ‘burn it down to save it’ position is reactionary if anything.

  • juumanistra

    So if you fight with all your vigor and intensity to carry the day on the small spending bills, you’ll be able to do the same on the big sutff? Never was much of a believer in such, myself. Always have thought that Congress operated on the inverse of that: As political capital is a scarce resource, the goal is to preserve and deploy it for the big-ticket items you really want, even if it means compromising and even rolling over on the small potatoes.

    Given the number of big-ticket items the House GOP wants to pursue, it seems a mistake to go to the mat for a smaller-than-desired range of cuts to a five-month continuing resolution to a budgetary baseline that the GOP had no substantive hand in creating.

  • mich22

    You’re making too much sense!!! JK. Keep at it.

  • juumanistra

    So I wholeheartedly agree that in all we do, even in undoing the affronts of the past, that prudent incrementalism is best. Your previous post just allowed me to put on my political philosopher’s cap, which I don’t get to do nearly enough.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    It doesn’t go Whig -> Republican. The Republicans picked up half the pieces of the American party, which picked up part of the pieces of the Whigs (some Whigs became Democrats).

    And the Republicans didn’t even get all of the Americans. Just the northern ones. Southern and border state Americans had their own Constitutional Union ticket in 1860, headed by Bell.

    And the GOP didn’t rise, so much as the Democrats fell, splitting between Douglas and Breckenridge. The two Democrats combined for 47% of the popular vote (which doesn’t include South Carolina, whose voters would have gone heavily for Breckenridge if the Electors weren’t appointed by the legislature instead of by some sort of popular vote).

    Lincoln only pulled 40%. Had the Democrats not split, the continuing ex-American, ex-Whig split between Lincoln and Bell would have continued Democrat dominance.

    So yeah, even if the Republican party collapses, a successor party will only succeed, historically, if the Democrats also split.

  • Diogenes314

    Namely, ensuring the remaining major party it opposed would dominate.

    Without TR, there would have been no Wilson.
    Without Perot, there would have been no Clinton.
    A ‘third’ party that isn’t just a marginal joke will only ensure that the Democrats rule unopposed for the next decade or until America collapses.

  • acat
  • writeblock

    It’s enough that the stars were aligned for it to happen. The stars are aligning right now even though they’re in a different galaxy.

  • acat

    The GOP clearly aren’t using theirs… just need to move in, change the wallpaper, the carpets, and some of the servants…

    Mew

  • Finrod

    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/03/29/rel4l.pdf

    I put this poll like so many MSM polls in the category of ‘Democratic Party Agitprop’. Polls of Adults are useless for anything else.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • writeblock

    Only the captain and crew don’t seem upset that they’ve struck an iceberg. The captain and crew are all very cool and reasonable. Lots of signs of patience. Lots of gentlemanly voices of reason. Except the floors of our cabins are tilting and a few of us are noticing ocean water is pouring in under the doors. But not to fear. The captain is urging patience–and has ordered the crew to use some buckets to start bailing out the ballroom.

  • writeblock

    It’s there, but you can’t get hold of it. It’s a problem but it can’t be opposed by calling it names–it’s too vast and shapeless and even ultimately nameless. It’s as if a fish were to poll the ocean. The Tea Party’s just the name we give a movement comprised of fedup Americans who voted in enormous numbers against the Democrats in 2010. I don’t blame the left for being annoyed and calling it nasty names and trying to poll it, etc., in an attempt to discredit it. But it’s all so futile and silly. You can’t poll a phenomenon that’s leaderless and structureless. It’s like polling your own concept of something that’s going on. It might make you feel good–but it’s still your own concept of the thing and not the actual thing out there that’s making life so difficult for the left.

  • writeblock

    Ryan’s got a schoolboy’s understanding of political warfare. He thinks it’s unseemly to behave as the Dems behave–and imagines it’s enough to call this unseemliness to their attention. He;s at a total loss to know how to deal with them otherwise. Heaven forbid he should be called upon to get tough with his colleagues on the other side of the aisle. Tough is not who he is. Nice is who he is. And they finish last.

  • writeblock

    to achieve a goal, and refusing to take a risk out of moral weakness. If Republicans won’t draw a line in the sand–when will they do it? Next year just before an election. What credibility will they have at that point?

  • AceInTX

    here’s my take….it’s not impatience that they are not doing anything…or that they aren’t being pure…it’s the pattern….let’s review some history.

    Many of us cried foul when the Geniuses in leadership came out with the contract with America and promised to cut $100 Billion from the budget if voters put them in charge of the House of Representatives.

    Our argument was “Don’t make the promise if you don’t intend to carry through with it.”

    Many of us knew this promise wasn’t worth the paper it was written on and we knew when they didn’t fulfill that promise…it wouldn’t be the Democrats who were blamed for their failure to keep the promise…all we’d hear about was Republicans hypocrisy in promising to make the cuts and their immanent failure to do so.

    Many of us understand that cynically making a promise that you have no intention of living up to is poison when trying to build trust with the voters and the American People.

    Then the Geniuses won with our help…

    So what happened to the promise to immediately cut $100 Billion from the budget?…

    The Geniuses began by announcing…before the oath of office was even administered…that it would be a tough deal to actually do what they had clearly and plainly promised to do…(even while those of us being accused of purism were saying they were full of crap)…

    Then they worked the bill through committees and marked up the legislation and the promised $100 Billion became $60 Billion without so much as a rumor of a fight from the Dems as this came through markup…there was no fight…there was no compromise to get something from the Dems in return for the $40 Billion cave….they just caved in typical Stupid Party fassion.

    So here we are now….The Senate Democrats haven’t even passed a bill yet….they yell “Shutdown” and the Geniuses dutifully tuck their tails and wet themselves with every utterance of the word…

    There is no criticism of the Democrats for refusing to pass a bill so they can iron this out in conference….

    There is no argument being made from the Geniuses about the bad actors on the other side on this…

    Now we find out that the Geniuses are planning on forming a coalition with Blue Dog Dems and stiff arm Conservatives so the promised $100 Billion in cuts won’t even be $10 Billion by the time these whimpering currs capitulate themselves into a cowering quivering mess on the floor….

    Yet here we are…

    Those of us who said don’t make the promise if you don’t intend to carry through on it are called names and scoffed at and scolded for not being team players?

    We’re “SHUT IT DOWN NOW scorched earth purists” and we have OUR Conservative credentials questioned?

    The unmitigated gall of some here who would question ANYONE’S conservative credentials while simultaneously making excuses for the endless compromising and the belly dragging tail tucked between the legs piss bridling cowardice exhibited by the Geniuses in leadership is simply breathtaking in it’s idiocy and stupidity!

    PLEASE!!!!

  • YnotNOW
  • YnotNOW
  • AceInTX

    there were dozens of parties in that time frame the Whig and Democrat parties being the big boys in the tent….

    It can’t be ignored, however, that most of these other parties were formed out of frustration at the lack of representation from the two major parties and the refusal of those parties to deal with the central issue of that day…

    There a similar forces at work today….the tea party has sprung up from the grass roots and is demanding a voice…and it is my fervent and constant prayer that the Republican Party will answer that call…and provide that voice….

    Sadly they seem hell bent on flying the bird at the Tea Party movement…and only time will tell where that unheard Behemoth that is the Tea Party well settle itself before it set’s off in a destructive third party movement out of frustration at the intransigence of what should be their natural allies in the GOP…

    let me state emphatically…I’ve been accused of calling for a third party in the past…and I want to state without equivocation that I think such a move is a fools errand…I just want my beloved GOP to listen to the voices crying out in the wilderness…and do what must be done to represent them.

    That I think is what writeblock is alluding to

  • AceInTX
  • juumanistra

    That stick, incidentally, is the FY2012 budget fight. If Republicans fail to perform during that fight, then I will eagerly join you in browbeating them for their failures.

    But not until then.

  • bcb1

    The only perspective I could perhaps add, is that governing is blissfully simple when you are campaigning, talking to roomfuls of expectant supporters and crowds of the faithful. Promises are made, one after the other. We’ll clean ‘em up, we’ll hang ‘em out to dry, we’ll take back Washington, that’s what we’ll do, they say to their admirers.

    Understand that the men and women that get into politics are by and large, the overachievers. The type-A personalities. The ones with the nice smiles, the quick handshake, the genuine and sincere personalities. The kind of people that graduated magna cum laude, were leaders of their sports teams, the kind of people that get listened to at parties, that have the funniest jokes and best stories. In short, they are (usually) intelligent, charming, witty people that are used to being the best at what they do. They’re used to winning, used to getting their way. They’re used to being the smartest person in the room.

    And then they get to Washington DC. Uh, oh. All of the sudden, they’re in a giant room full of people just like them. They no longer stand out, they’re no longer the smartest, no longer the quickest witted, no longer the person that carries all the weight like they did in their hometowns. Now they’re just another face in a very large crowd of overachievers, just like them. And some of those overachievers don’t agree with them. They too are powerful, smart, charming – and worst of all, they’ve been around longer, are more respected, carry more weight. Uh, oh indeed.

    The point I’m trying to make is that governing is easy to do as a bystander, banging away on a keyboard. It’s not even very hard to do on the campaign trail. But once you actually get to Washington and have to start, you know, uh…governing, dang it that’s when it gets hard. Real hard. You can pound your fists and throw your hands in the air on the campaign trail and everyone cheers you on and agrees with you. But when you pound your fists and demand your way in Washington, everyone just laughs at you. You’re no longer the big man on campus, you’re just a face in a crowd of 435 people just like you. You have to learn to fit in, to make deals, to deal with the attractive, funny, and ever so charming and witty K street people that are now waving money at you and taking you to expensive lunches. Not so easy anymore.

    And at the end of this long, boring diatribe I unfortunately have no magic spell or wand that I can wave to make any of this change. It won’t change, I can guarantee it. But at least we can have an understanding of why it happens, even if we can’t change the fact that it does happen.

  • izoneguy

    It is just another wing of the socialist party.

  • The_Gadfly

    wasn’t willing to sign onto welfare reform until after he “won” the shutdown.

    Me thinks he realized how close he came to losing the whole ball of wax and was more reasonable thereafter. Same thing applies here.

  • juumanistra

    He signed welfare reform in the late summer of 1996 in order to garner electoral capital: It’s hard to argue against “the man that ended welfare as we know it” three months from the general election, given how popular welfare reform was.

    No matter how much we dislike him, one cannot begrudge his political instincts. I’d be a fair bit more worried about the current president if he had even an iota of Clinton’s skills as a politician.