You and I both know that anytime you have a war, innocent civilians get killed.
But Barack Obama told us this is not a war. This is just a kinetic military action.
The whole reason we are in Libya is to stop innocent civilians from being killed. It is the raison d’être of Susan Rice, Samantha Powers, and Hillary Clinton. They wanted to stop a massacre.
According to Vatican officials we have now killed 40 innocent civilians in Tripoli.
“The so-called humanitarian raids have killed dozens of civilian victims in some neighborhoods of Tripoli,” said Giovanni Innocenzo Martinelli, the Apostolic Vicar of Tripoli.
“I have collected several witness accounts from reliable people. In particular, in the Buslim neighborhood, due to the bombardments, a civilian building collapsed, causing the death of 40 people,” he told Fides, the news agency of the Vatican missionary arm.
War is hell. I guess kinetic military action is too.
“But,” you lefty hacks say, “these are unconfirmed reports. They are enemy propaganda.” So you are saying that Saddam’s Minister of Information was more truthful than the Gaddafi regime? Because you bought hook, line, and sinker all of his reports of innocent civilians killed.
Moe Lane
Dan McLaughlin
Dan Spencer
Jeff Emanuel
Neil Stevens
And the new strategy for "rebels"? Scream massacre!
Marcus_Traianus (Diary) Thursday, March 31st at 10:51AM EDT (link)apparently the “rebels” ( e.g. LFIG, AQIM, etc.) when getting defeated militarily are now calling Reuters and telling them “massacres” are happening when Libyan government forces fight back. The hope is to draw us further into supporting their (rebel) forces with CAS.
Anybody with casual knowledge of urban warfare in populated cities knows that civilian casualties are part of the risk. To categorically deny this is not occurring without any independent (that is US) BDA is either deliberately mendacious, foolish or ill informed.
Oh yeah and I would believe the Vatican before trusting anything the political part of this administration says.
“Both of our political parties, at least the honest portion of them, agree conscientiously in the same object—the public good; but they differ essentially in what they deem the means of promoting that good. One side believes it best done by one composition of the governing powers; the other, by a different one. One fears most the ignorance of the people; the other, the selfishness of rulers independent of them. Which is right, time and experience will prove.”.Thomas Jefferson
No Erick, innocent civilians only died with Bush
johnt Thursday, March 31st at 12:02PM EDT (link)in office. Along with other horrors like huge deficits, the NSA “spying on Americans’, and government forcing it’s will on us.
You don’t think those issues were a matter of principle to the people who raised them, do you?
“a man’s admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him”. Tocqueville
Under Obama, After The Bombs Impact,
Repair_Man_Jack (Diary) Thursday, March 31st at 12:05PM EDT (link)they become kinetic agricultural fertilizer.
Mr. Obama is pretending that an economic “recovery” is underway when he knows damn well that the banking system is just blowing smoke up the shredded *** of what’s left of that economy – James Howard Kunstler
I think whoever came up with
ptort Thursday, March 31st at 12:14PM EDT (link)Kinetic Military Action is a d-bag of the highest order. On further reflection though, I think it is an obvious signal: KMA, Kiss My A–.
"Hey, we just gotta spread the death around a little."
Tbone (Diary) Thursday, March 31st at 1:08PM EDT (link)The real Obama Doctrine.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Honestly? I don't have that much of a problem with this
aesthete (Diary) Thursday, March 31st at 5:30PM EDT (link)Civilian casualties are part and parcel of almost any protracted military conflict — that’s not to say that they’re good, but we accept that they will happen regardless. Certainly, we should do what we can within reason to avoid civilian casualties where such casualties do not further our objectives, and we should prosecute when members of our Armed Forces violate the UCMJ when it happens, but complaining about civilian casualties is gnat-straining when so many have been lost in Iraq.
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
"Collateral Damage" is Unavoidable
edintexas Friday, April 1st at 8:02AM EDT (link)While I agree that so-called “collateral damage” is unavoidable in a war, in this case protecting civilians from harm was alleged to be the SOLE reason for going to war with Libya. Ergo, deaths of civilians caused by prosecuting the war seem to me to be “fair game”.
Of course we all know that the object of the war is to give one side in this civil war an advantage. The fact that we know virtually nothing about that side simply means we are choosing to back the devil we don’t know, for it is unlikely that any side which includes AQ will turn out to be in favor of any sort of “democracy”, or Christians, “the West”, etc.
IMO, this sort of utilitarian calculus
aesthete (Diary) Friday, April 1st at 11:44PM EDT (link)is exactly why “humanitarian war” is a ridiculous concept on its face. After all, is not a peaceful, democratic country worth 40 deaths? OTOH, is not an Al-Qaeda controlled country not only not worth 40 deaths, but worth many deaths to prevent? Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing which of those two scenarios would result from a successful “rebel” endgame — and judging by other generic rebellions, it’s pretty likely that the side with the most guns and the willingness to use them brutally will carry the day. That sort of uncertainty doesn’t make intervention worth it, not by a long shot. This is why narrowly-defined national interest, and not the tragedies of the day, should be our guide when it comes to foreign policy.
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
5555555555 - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, April 1st at 11:49PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
I don't have a problem with "limited" colateral damage
YnotNOW (Diary) Friday, April 1st at 11:32AM EDT (link)Civilians were likely killed, and will likely continue to be killed. The response should not be to deny, nor to shrug them off as inevitable. Instead, the State Dept should be screaming at the UN and all international forums about how Gaddafi is using human shields, is prolonging war that will result in civilian casualties, and is totally responsible for all outcomes.
Don’t give an inch. There is no substitute for victory.
YnotNOW
If not me, who? If not now, when?
I don't have a problem with "limited" colateral damage
YnotNOW (Diary) Friday, April 1st at 11:32AM EDT (link)Civilians were likely killed, and will likely continue to be killed. The response should not be to deny, nor to shrug them off as inevitable. Instead, the State Dept should be screaming at the UN and all international forums about how Gaddafi is using human shields, is prolonging war that will result in civilian casualties, and is totally responsible for all outcomes.
Don’t give an inch. There is no substitute for victory.
YnotNOW
If not me, who? If not now, when?
Clarification of "limited"
YnotNOW (Diary) Friday, April 1st at 11:34AM EDT (link)means that we still do everything within our power to avoid colateral damage, but don’t compromise the ability to complete the mission just because Gaddafi is using human shields and hiding military forces in cities.
We have to be able to ligitimately claim “we’re doing all we can to limit civilian casualties, but Gaddafi….”
YnotNOW
If not me, who? If not now, when?
Clarification of "limited"
YnotNOW (Diary) Friday, April 1st at 11:34AM EDT (link)means that we still do everything within our power to avoid colateral damage, but don’t compromise the ability to complete the mission just because Gaddafi is using human shields and hiding military forces in cities.
We have to be able to ligitimately claim “we’re doing all we can to limit civilian casualties, but Gaddafi….”
YnotNOW
If not me, who? If not now, when?
Sure, but what evidence
aesthete (Diary) Friday, April 1st at 11:18PM EDT (link)is there to show that we haven’t been doing just that? I’m pretty sure that our AF and spotters didn’t suddenly turn into bloodthirsty murderers out to kill Libyans simply because it’s Obama’s mission. As I understand it, Gaddhafi’s forces are huddled in urban enclaves now, so removing them is going to involve the deaths of countless civilians on both sides of the conflict. So long as we’re in this idiotic venture, we might as well not criticize standard operating procedure.
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
Actually, I am arguing the opposite
YnotNOW (Diary) Monday, April 4th at 6:56PM EDT (link)I am not claiming that our forces are not sufficiently trying to avoid civilian casualties, I am arguing that we are too sensitive to the issue of collateral damage. Some is inevitable. We’re doing our best to avoid. The public and press need to grow up and deal with the fact that war is h*ll and if we’re going to fight, fight to win.
YnotNOW
If not me, who? If not now, when?
Actually, I am arguing the opposite
YnotNOW (Diary) Monday, April 4th at 6:56PM EDT (link)I am not claiming that our forces are not sufficiently trying to avoid civilian casualties, I am arguing that we are too sensitive to the issue of collateral damage. Some is inevitable. We’re doing our best to avoid. The public and press need to grow up and deal with the fact that war is h*ll and if we’re going to fight, fight to win.
YnotNOW
If not me, who? If not now, when?
Is the Vatican refereeing this Kinetic Man Made Disaster?
Doc Holliday (Diary) Thursday, March 31st at 5:36PM EDT (link)they probably have cool uniforms.
Molon Labe!
Why not?
Veronica (Diary) Thursday, March 31st at 6:26PM EDT (link).. since the UN started this mess, Doc, ironically, to prevent “genocide.”
Let the Vatican document.
It’ll further legitimize the atrocities we can continue to see commited against Christians.
I sure don’t trust the UN to keep the numbers…
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Pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on us. – St. Augustine
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I was not aware Libya was teeming with Christians Veronica
Doc Holliday (Diary) Thursday, March 31st at 6:54PM EDT (link)I know there are numbers of them, less than 100,000 including Catholics and Copts. But I don’t think the Vatican was referring to Christian “innocent civilians”. I am sorry if it bothers you, but the Vatican has a history of attacking American military actions. Why don’t they give us a count of genocide and tyrants killing their own people?
when did the Vatican last release a death count in China? Uganda? Zimbabwe? Mexico? Yeah, I think the Vatican has some interest in Mexico, why don’t they fix that hell hole?
Molon Labe!
I knew there would be the day doc,
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Thursday, March 31st at 7:09PM EDT (link)when I would be able to say the following with no “but.”
Correct.
Again Correct.
Absolutely correct,they despise our military,
Right, and they do not want anyone to know.
They should, but that would not allow them to focus their nonsense on us the evil empire.
heh Power, it happens. I agree with you too on this -nt
Doc Holliday (Diary) Thursday, March 31st at 7:12PM EDT (link)Molon Labe!
I'm surprised
edintexas Friday, April 1st at 8:08AM EDT (link)I didn’t even see one reference to “Papism” or “Papist” from the two of you (Veronica is excluded). Guess these terms are out of use these days.
why are you trying to start trouble with me Ed?
Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, April 1st at 7:23PM EDT (link)It is a waste of time. I don’t get into personal arguments anymore, it is just a waste of time and energy.
Molon Labe!
Is the Vatican counting "civilians" killed by Ghadaffi's government, or is that left to the Latvian Orthodox Church? -nt
Doc Holliday (Diary) Thursday, March 31st at 5:46PM EDT (link)Molon Labe!
"It became necessary to destroy the town to save it"
dkneitel Friday, April 1st at 12:47AM EDT (link)Air support means blowing shit up, often resulting in the death or injury to anyone in the immediate vicinity (kill radius determined by equipment specifications). Combatant or not – makes no difference to a 2,000 lb JDAM.
but these bombs have good karma.
averagevoterdotcom Friday, April 1st at 1:30AM EDT (link)or, as I heard a lib tell me, “we kill with love”. No, I did not make that up.
General Nancy Pelosi said . . .
bigalsouth (Diary) Friday, April 1st at 7:35AM EDT (link)We gots to destroy this building in order to find out what’s in it . . .
Educate, vent, discuss conservative issues at
http://itsaboutliberty.com
OBAMA'S WAR
sirjason (Diary) Saturday, April 2nd at 12:23AM EDT (link)Obama has commited himself! And he alone has conducted an act of war against Libya…PERIOD! Congress was NOT consulted nor have “We the people…” approved of Obama’s aggresive actions against a country that has NO stratigic interests to he USA.
The moron has definitely avoided our Congress in favor of the UN and the Arabs round the world to attack Libya and especially, Kadaffi! IRAN was his best and last opportunity to topple Ahamdinejad and the Mullahs but he PASSED on the killings, imprisonment and torture of innocent Iranians!
An impeachable action that he seems to welcome in order to extricate himself from governing and provide a ticket for himself and his family to Kenya, Africa before indictment…and you WILL KNOW the results when the investigation ends!”We the People…” KNOW he is a monster imposter!
–
Jason Leverette, Patriot
Whatever evolves was first, created-
Semper Fidelis
Horse crap
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Saturday, April 2nd at 12:47AM EDT (link)this is not Obama’s war, it is ours. I could give a rat’s shiny rear end what side you fall on in the debate concerning this action, it is our men and women in danger, hence it is our war. We do not act like the left.
Second, nothing he is doing is illegal. Dumb, maybe, wrong time or approach, perhaps. Illegal, no. And you think attacking Iran was better or even something we should do? If so, I would reconsider calling others morons, even Obama.
Third, impeach him for what? And why should he excuse himself to Kenya? Are you a birther or is it because you feel all blacks belong in Kenya?
Last little tidbit for your “post,” polls show no less than 50% support for this action so far, so at least half of “we the people” support this war.
I do not care for the way this is being handled, do not like the way Obama has governed much less the way he carried himself concerning this matter, but regardless of that, the ignorant calls constantly for impeachment are absurd, gain us no friends, do no damage to him, and waste valuable time when we should be focusing in on things that are actually a problem and a part of reality.
But your suggestion that somehow Obama missed his opportunity to topple the Iranian leadership really shows what kind of dream world you live in.
And it’s Gaddafi by the way.