Newt Gingrich appeared on Meet the Press this morning and said two things that won’t exactly endear him to the Tea Party crowd or the reform minded movement sweeping the GOP.
First, he endorsed the individual mandate and said he would not bash Mitt Romney over the individual mandate.
Second, he went after Paul Ryan’s proposal to reform Medicare. Your mileage may vary on Ryan’s plan, but he is both offering up one and using the free market, individual choice approach favored by conservatives.
Newt was not happy with the approach.
Gingrich is already going to have to overcome the apprehensiveness of evangelicals and women in the primary. To also have to overcome the free marketers’ concerns may prove problematic.
I’m still struggling to figure out what Newt’s natural constituency is. He seems to want to be the ideas guy, but that really amounts to being a conservative technocrat. If Daniels enters and Mitt is there too, it is a crowded field for the technocrats to fight over.
Time will tell. The transcript of the related remarks is below the fold.
Endorsing individual mandate:
GINGRICH: well, i agree that all of us have a responsibility to help pay for health care. and i think there are ways to do it that make most libertarians relatively happy. i have said consistently we ought to have some requirement that you either have health insurance or you post a bond, or in some way, you indicate you’re going to be held accountable.
GREGORY: but that is the individual mandate, is it not?
GINGRICH: it’s a variation on it.
GREGORY: so you won’t use that issue against Mitt Romney?
GINGRICH: no
Calls Ryan plan “right wing social engineering”:
GREGORY: what about entitle snaents the trust fund is going to be depleted by 2024, five years earlier than predicted. do you think republicans ought to buck the public opposition and really move forward to completely change medicare, turn it into a voucher program where you give seniors some premium support so that they can go out and buy private insurance?
GINGRICH: i don’t think right-wing social engineering is any more desirable than left-wing social engineering. i don’t think imposing radical change from the right or the left is a very good way for free society to operate. i think we need a national conversation to get to a better medicare system with more choices for seniors, but there are specific things you can do. at the center for health transformation, which i helped found, which published a book called “stop paying the crooks.” we thought that was a clear enough, simple enough idea, even for washington. we, between medicare and medicaid, we pay between $70 billion and $120 billion a year to crooks. and ibm has agreed to help solve it, american express has agreed to help solve it, visa has agreed to help solve it. you can’t get anybody in this town to look at it. that’s almost a trillion dollars over a decade. so, there are things you can do to improve medicare –
GREGORY: but not what paul ryan is suggesting, completely change medicare?
GINGRICH: i think that is too big a jump. i think you want to have a system where people voluntarily migrate to better outcomes, better solutions, better options, not one where you suddenly impose upon the — i’m against obama care, which is imposing radical change, and i would be against a conservative imposing radical change.
Jeff Emanuel
Neil Stevens
Newt really doesn't want to be president
RealQuiet (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:14PM EDT (link)Or he is just clueless on why the GOP made such huge gains last November.
Could Newt be more out of touch?
nelsa (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:16PM EDT (link)Seriously. It’s like we don’t want to win. The spine factory was taxed out of business…
WOW!!! What part of this do Newt & Mitt NOT GET???
izoneguy (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:22PM EDT (link)These guys are just too old and over the hill to get it.
What demographic are they going for???
The Federal Government needs to get out of the healthcare business period.
We don’t need a British style NHS. Look what a success that has been /sarc.
Newt & Mitt – hang it up and go home.
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
It's not the age... they're both too close to the gutless D.C. wing of the GOP...
acat (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:26PM EDT (link)whose current wish-fulfillment mantra is “The people want health care the way we’ll do it…”
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
Plus, they don't want the Republican Party to change
lineholder (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:47PM EDT (link)Too bad, because it is changing whether they want it to or not.
At the rate the Republican party is going
izoneguy (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 4:00PM EDT (link)There won’t be a party left….
The democratic party has been overtaken by Socialists, Marxists & Communists
so it isn’t your “working man’s” party any longer.
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
The Republican Party has not represented
concap (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 5:46PM EDT (link)it’s small government constituents like they claim they do.
With the voting power, the Republican Party currently holds over the Tea Party movement, do you ever see the hard core fiscal conservative this nation so desperately needs, ever getting the nomination for President?
Or will it always be someone like Bush, McCain or Huckabee, and other hiders waving the fiscal flag just to get elected?
Will the Tea Party splif off? NO
A third party is inadvertently being formed by Republicans that refuse to advacat their social concerns on the state level and move to the fiscal right on a federal level with the RepublicanTea Party.
They will be forced to merge with Moderate Democratic Conservatives being forced to move to the right by the radical left insuring a social leaning Republican Party.
I think it will end up something like this.
Tea Party (fiscal) Republicans
Social (both Republican & Democrats) Republicans
The new third party radical far left
The Progressives.
In the end, do to the combined size of the Social Republican Party,
the third party, the Progressives will be left powerless and then we will be back to two parties again.
The Constitution is neither Right or Left, it is American.
You need neither be Right or Left to vote American.
When you vote on the Federal level based on politics, you are voting for a lobbyist to promote your own personal wants and force them on others through taxation and legislation.
FF/FS/SL/RMIL/OK
Fiscal Federal/Fiscal State/Social Local/Retired Military/Oath Keeper
Newt is an insider in the old GOP mold
editedforbias Monday, May 16th at 10:45AM EDT (link)In a general sense Newt believes in government’s ability to solve problems. Much like most GOP insiders he believes the Democrats big government solutions are wrong, but that their government solutions are better.
I used to agree with him and much of the GOP on how to solve problems. But like millions of others, I no longer fall for that line. I don’t trust any of them to solve anything for me or others. Only we the people can solve these problems for ourselves and our communities. We need Washington to step asside and let us fix their mess. That means closing down government agencies, transfering power back to the states, charities and the American people.
Newt will never allow that much power to leave Washington and in that alone he is no longer qualified.
E4B
Newt, the retread, has no traction.
usadying (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:24PM EDT (link)Why did he get in the race if he’s Obama Jr? Maybe it’s the Republican establishment’s way of telling us our choices are radical Progressives or Progressive Lite. This, plus LUR’s report about unionizing OMB, tells me the republic is gasping its last breaths.
Usually, I would not hold divorce
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:24PM EDT (link)against a person, but with Gingrich I do. For him to divorce his first wife while she was battling cancer only to again leave his second wife shortly after being diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis, demonstrates this guys mindset, values, character, commitment, etc.
So it is of no surprise that what was once the conservative guy who brought about the conservative revolution all of a sudden bounces over to the dark side. He is about what makes him feel good at the moment, he is about himself, and sacrifice, commitment, and honor are as foreign to Newt as they are to Obama.
One wife too many
frankieb (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 3:24PM EDT (link)IMHO, anyway
Books … the most exotic, least expensive vacation: www.DelphiBooks.us
www.DaughterOfTheGreatDepression.blogspot.com
Claire McCaskill goes in so many directions, it’s amazing she hasn’t drawn and quartered herself. www.TruthAboutClaire.com
Yes, that and...
merryj1 Sunday, May 15th at 10:40PM EDT (link)…one too many included in his “signature line.”
I’m not usually interested in a politician’s peccadillos – stuff happens; but I admit to a bit of nausea when I received a political card or letter from Gingrich with “Marilyn and I…” above the signature, the same week headline news disclosed he and Marilyn were pfffffttt and he had a new dolly on his arm. When I see the more recent ads about “Calistra and I…” hawking a book or DVD, the nausea resurfaces.
Still, I would’ve put that aside and supported him if he won the GOP nomination — but that’s absolutely DOA with this insurance mandate crap. Now he’s not just betraying his spouse du jour, he’s trampling on our liberty — yours and mine.
"...he’s trampling on our liberty..."
edintexas Monday, May 16th at 7:56AM EDT (link)Newt’s been trying to do that for some time now. He’s spent years pumping for digitizing all our medical records and making them available to anyone (other than the person) in government, insurance or medicine. While he claims it will save major cash, and the “major” might be questionable (or even any savings), it certainly is a major invasion of our privacy. As he showed on Sunday, he’s all for running out lives through government mandates, just on a Statist Republican basis instead of a Statist Democrat basis. I’d guess Newt’s been a Statist for a long time (perhaps always), but believed it necessary to hide it in the 90s.
Newt didn't leave wife according to daughter
Juggernaut (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 8:22PM EDT (link)http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2011/05/newts-daughter-now-claims-he-didnt-dump-cancer-patient-wife/37729/
http://www.creators.com/conservative/jackie-gingrich-cushman/setting-the-record-straight.html
You’ve been hoodwinked by the liberal media which doesn’t surprise me at all. Most of the sources are the NYTimes, Politico, MSNBC and the NewYorker so why would anyone trust their version of events when the wife’s story has changed over the years?
RomneyCare is Right Wing Socialism –
Romney “severely conservative”? That’s the opposite of a “compassionate conservative” like George W. Bush? Actually, we know what a severely conservative is. It’s Dick Cheney and Mitt Romney is no Dick Cheney.
Newt makes Ron Paul look pretty good.
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:25PM EDT (link)The upside to Newt is that he doesn’t have defenders.
Heh, yes.
aesthete (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 3:30PM EDT (link)Is there anyone who wants Newt to be President besides Newt?
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
Um, yes. Apparently there are.
clowngirl (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 9:09PM EDT (link)Seem to remember reading an article on Politico the other week that said Newt had collected far more donations than any other candidate at that point.
Presumably at least a few of the donors giving money to his (then) potential Presidential campaign like the idea of him being President.
Though I’m guessing your comment wasn’t meant to be literal. Still, it’s one thing to dislike Newt yourself, quite another to act as though he’s universally despised. what’s the point of such a post?
I was just being tongue in cheek.
aesthete (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 11:10PM EDT (link)Gets me in trouble sometimes, both in real life and on the web *shrugs*
Still, that is surprising that he would have the most donations of any candidate. I honestly don’t understand his appeal: as Erick said, his natural constituency seems hard to place.
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
He's got a huge mailing list
clowngirl (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 7:28PM EDT (link)From “American Solutions” and other organizations. That means a large network of potential donors.
I’m surprised you can’t see * anything * appealing about Newt.
Speaking in general terms, I find it hard not to like Newt’s intellectual energy and his tenacity and boldness. I remember, as a teenager, reading a ( probably very flattering ) article about Newt that told a story of how, as a kid of (I think) 10 he got on a bus and traveled to the capital of his state to petition the Governor to build a zoo. I may be getting the details wrong – but that sort of enthusiasm and boldness still seems to be characteristic.
And he seems solution oriented — when they voted on TARP tons of conservatives were expressing outrage about it but Newt also sent out a newsletter detailing a 6 point alternative plan. It seemed thought through — and the fact he had it ready so quickly seemed to attest to a deep understanding of the issues.
Somebody said Newt was too wonkish– maybe, I guess I just don’t see that as a bad thing.
Not saying – at this point – that he should be President – but don’t think his appeal is that mysterious. Then again – I can’t fathom why anybody would be inclined to support Mitt Romney…
Newt has raised over $32 million
Juggernaut (Diary) Tuesday, May 17th at 8:25PM EDT (link)Saw that online and on FOX Special Report. Hes got a large following but he needs to avoid going against party ideals. Newt apologized for his remarks about Paul Ryan’s plan saying he misspoke under pressure or something like that.
RomneyCare is Right Wing Socialism –
Romney “severely conservative”? That’s the opposite of a “compassionate conservative” like George W. Bush? Actually, we know what a severely conservative is. It’s Dick Cheney and Mitt Romney is no Dick Cheney.
yeah, he made some unfortunate word choices
clowngirl (Diary) Tuesday, May 17th at 11:28PM EDT (link)read that using the word “radical” which is how Democrats have described Ryan’s plan really hit the wrong nerve. That’s understandable.
Inclined now to see the criticism of Newt as (at least partly)deserved. In future, hopefully he’ll take more care not to give the impression of throwing most of his party under the bus. But would give him benefit of the doubt that he did simply misspeak and that wasn’t his deliberate intention.
Agreed, Newt will have to be far more careful
Juggernaut (Diary) Thursday, May 19th at 8:30PM EDT (link)and exercise caution when criticizing republcian anything at this juncture.
Newt forgot Gaylord Parkinson’s Eleventh Commandment that President Reagan followed after he criticized the GOP while campaigning.
“Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican”
RomneyCare is Right Wing Socialism –
Romney “severely conservative”? That’s the opposite of a “compassionate conservative” like George W. Bush? Actually, we know what a severely conservative is. It’s Dick Cheney and Mitt Romney is no Dick Cheney.
There were a few Newties
CMaree (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 7:55AM EDT (link)at the GA GOP state convention. Newt at the GA Victory Dinner speech waxed on his book projects and videos on American History, which many citizens need to be reminded of. He resonated on the fiscal issues with reminders of how he balanced the budget long age.
Newt, however, did not remark on health care nor of Ryan’s budget legislation. Now we know why.
The professor entered the GOP room all smiles and we all frowns need to show him the EXIT door.
“The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world that it leaves to its children.” — Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Newt
rsefert Monday, May 16th at 9:22AM EDT (link)Newt lost me when he sat down with pelosi and pushed the global warming crap.You don`t negoiate with progressives burn and conquer is the only thing thay will work.
great points 'becker - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 5:59PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Becker, I saw this first here:
Flagstaff (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 12:17AM EDT (link)http://www.redstate.com/realquiet/2011/05/15/first-mitt-now-newt-destroying-their-chances-before-the-potus-nomination-race-really-begins/#comment-825
And that was my comment. Key points:
“he has forgotten several important facts about the conservative movement, one of them being WE HAVE TO STICK TOGETHER. Newt needs this rule more than anybody.
Another one he ignores is THERE IS NO EQUIVALENCE BETWEEN LIBERAL MISTAKES AND CONSERVATIVE MISTAKES. Liberal mistakes come from a mistake-filled base philosophy. Conservative mistakes come from simply being human, and therefore wrong from time to time, usually in degree rather than direction. If he disagrees with the Ryan ideas, then say exactly which ideas and why–DON’T USE THE WORD RADICAL. It simply plays into the Democrat game plan.”
Newt quickly forgot a statement he made after his announcement. He was going to go after Obama, not other Republican candidates.
Republican candidates and observers alike should agree to keep in mind that the worst Republican in the race is better than Barack Obama, in every way imaginable, and that to criticize any Republican’s honest-broker ideas is to assist Obama. Even if they disagree with the idea (Newt disagrees with Ryan’s budget proposal), point out that it is better than the policies that Obama is pushing and that it won’t be enacted without the support of the people. Or something, ANYTHING, besides “Ryan’s plan is just as RADICAL as Obama’s in some theoretical, imaginary world.” Even if it were, how does it help Newt to make that statement? It only helps Obama.
Republican candidate MUST stick together. If asked, divert the question so the answer is how much better your answer is than Obama’s. Then the other Republican can defend himself against the Press, but he need not defend himself against other Republicans.
Newt is a disaster waiting to happen, which is far worse than Romney, by the way. Newt appears completely capable of drawing support away from “real” conservative candidates on the basis of his former Congressional record, yet he has shown over and over again since he left Congress that he does NOT have firm conservative roots. If Romney were to be elected President, he would NOT attempt to simply modify ObamaCare, because to win he’d have to campaign strongly in favor of full repeal. Newt, OTOH, could be persuaded that it is a good idea that just needs a few tweaks, and it’s obvious that his campaign philosophy is going to be that he’s just smart enough to know where the tweaks should go. And my, how bipartisan THAT would be!
Some Republicans say that Newt would run rings around Obama in a debate. I find it hard to believe. To do that, the ‘Pub needs to have the same or higher level of conviction to his cause as Obama does, and Newt obviously doesn’t. It’s too bad.
Goodbye, Newt. You didn’t last long. You will have some defenders, but they will fail.
Buffett Rule #1: “Tax rates don’t matter if you don’t pay your taxes”
– Unnamed tax adviser to Warren Buffett, Leavenworth, KS, 2011
Buffett Rule #2: “A parrot in every pot and two Volts in every garage”– Jimmy Buffett, at a seance in Margaritaville, 1977
Nail meet hammer. Good job Flag. nt
mbecker908 (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 12:52AM EDT (link)So his medicare plan amounts to
bk (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 7:23AM EDT (link)1. Eliminate waste, fraud, abuse.
2. Get experts together to figure out a middle of the road solution if 1) is not enough.
I think we’ve heard all this sort of nonsense many many times before. It adds up to kicking the can.
Newt seems to be getting worse as time goes on. The Big Ideas Newt has succumbed to the Big Ego Newt in the past 25 years.
oops 25 should be 15 -nt
bk (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 7:29AM EDT (link)Nancy Pelosi has an empty seat on her couch.
ctmommy Sunday, May 15th at 1:27PM EDT (link)See ya, Newt.
5555
jcrestonm (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:34PM EDT (link)Global Warming, divorced dying wives, indivudal mandates, what dirty laundry are we going to find next, Newt?
Ronald Reagan: “I notice that everybody who is Pro-Abortion has already been born.”
Yep, That couch photo was enough for me...
trutexan Monday, May 16th at 6:19AM EDT (link)If that doesn’t scream “I’ll bend to the environmentalist wackos”, I don’t know what does.
“…we all have a responsibility to help pay for healthcare.” REALLY MR. GINGRICH? Seriously? And you’re running as a Republican? Don’t hold your breath for the nomination. I don’t have a responsibility to help ANYONE pay for health care. I only have to pay for my own. And I do that by getting an education, getting and keeping a job, saving my money, being responsible and self-reliant, and taking care of my family. As we all should do. So instead of handing out healthcare, why don’t you run on handing out pink slips to crappy teachers, tell their unions to get lost, and get this country up-to-speed with East Asia and India on education.
Ted Cruz (R) for Texas Senate.
Obama – Forward!
Proverbs 4:12-15
A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a forward mouth. He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers; Forwardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord. Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy.
Amen!
jlsankot Monday, May 16th at 6:52AM EDT (link)How I so agree with you!!!!
There is a hugh difference between a person claiming to be a Republican and claiming to be a Conservative. And as time passes, that gap seems to be getting bigger as the potential candidates show themselves.
I think the Repubs think they have this sewn up because Obama is so bad that they will be a shoo-in. But talk like Newt’s is just going to re-elect Obama.
Can they be this stupid, really?
Running for VP?
gpclaw Sunday, May 15th at 1:29PM EDT (link)First, the John Kerry debate on climate change, then the PSA with Nancy Pelosi, and now this? Is Next trying to challenge Biden?
"Next"
gpclaw Sunday, May 15th at 1:35PM EDT (link)should read “Newt”
Don't leave out how Speaker Newt threw JC Watts under the bus for calling Jesse Jackson
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 6:02PM EDT (link)a shakedown artist…
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
J.C. Watts. Now there is a man I would vote
Ward_Off_Monkey Monday, May 16th at 11:04PM EDT (link)for as president if given the chance.
“The government’s view of the economy can be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.” ~ Ronald Reagan
Cognitive Dissonance
Paula (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:30PM EDT (link)Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding conflicting ideas simultaneously.
So Ryan’s plan is right-wing social engineering and but Mitt’s individual mandate is not. I think they have therapy for this sort of disconnect.
Paula
My blog: Bold Colors
Follow me on Twitter: pbolyard
Yes, they do: it's called "get out of politics now!" -nt-
rickbull Sunday, May 15th at 2:10PM EDT (link)WE ARE THE 53% (who actually pay taxes).
Newt and the other establishmentarians
20jan2013 (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 1:09AM EDT (link)go on a show like MTP and they just want to be LIKED by David Gregory. They like you, Newt. They really, really like you. (apologies to Sally Field).
We conservatives, on the other hand…
http://archive.redstate.com/stories/the_parties/republicans/mitt_romney_lies_about_abortion
Newt and the other establishmentarians
20jan2013 (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 1:09AM EDT (link)go on a show like MTP and they just want to be LIKED by David Gregory. They like you, Newt. They really, really like you. (apologies to Sally Field).
We conservatives, on the other hand…
http://archive.redstate.com/stories/the_parties/republicans/mitt_romney_lies_about_abortion
Newt lost me when he said "Reagan conservatism is dead
gekster (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:32PM EDT (link)From Rush:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_011408/content/01125111.guest.html
Newt lost me forever on that alone, and he keeps adding more to dislike him for any office.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
I’ve gone from
“Hope and Change” to
“Hopeless and Changeless”
Newt & Mitt are making the late-entries look smart
6eorge Jetson (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:33PM EDT (link)No need to take on the candidates w/ name recognition when you can just stand on the sidelines for now and watch them self-destruct.
Click to see full size image
Sunday's best comment, 6eorge. nt
Flagstaff (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 12:21AM EDT (link)Buffett Rule #1: “Tax rates don’t matter if you don’t pay your taxes”
– Unnamed tax adviser to Warren Buffett, Leavenworth, KS, 2011
Buffett Rule #2: “A parrot in every pot and two Volts in every garage”– Jimmy Buffett, at a seance in Margaritaville, 1977
A "conservative technocrat" is mostly a self-contradictory term
David123 (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:40PM EDT (link)Even a really smart guy is not smarter than everybody else combined. The core of conservatism and American exceptionalism is that government stays the heck out of the way and lets individual Americans make smart individual choices that improve both the individual and the common good.
David123
right on
kyle8 (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 6:30PM EDT (link)I would go even further, there is something very real that has been observed, it is called the wisdom of the masses. Often large groups of people will be correct on a decision while the experts are confounded.
It is a curious thing to see Newt self destruct, but on the other hand, Nobody but Newt ever thought he had a ghost of a chance.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
An economics course I know of
Flagstaff (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 12:28AM EDT (link)has a segment that argues (more or less) that the average of a large number of independent single guesses by individuals who understand the basics of a problem is likely to be pretty close to the correct solution.
Too bad so many folks who don’t understand the basics get to guess, too.
Buffett Rule #1: “Tax rates don’t matter if you don’t pay your taxes”
– Unnamed tax adviser to Warren Buffett, Leavenworth, KS, 2011
Buffett Rule #2: “A parrot in every pot and two Volts in every garage”– Jimmy Buffett, at a seance in Margaritaville, 1977
A "conservative technocrat" is mostly a self-contradictory term
David123 (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:40PM EDT (link)Even a really smart guy is not smarter than everybody else combined. The core of conservatism and American exceptionalism is that government stays the heck out of the way and lets individual Americans make smart individual choices that improve both the individual and the common good.
David123
Maybe Newt is motivated by jealousy
earlgrey (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:47PM EDT (link)I mean in the 90s he was the guy. We believed iin him and his Contract with America. Now it is Ryan’s time in the sun and Newt can’t stand it.
Or he just doesn’t like what is happening in the GOP.
I just hope someone from his campaign call me asking for money.
Newt represents to me the old GOP, that I think we should work hard to get away from.
The definition of unpatriotic
dirkbelig Sunday, May 15th at 3:36PM EDT (link)This has the reeking stench of McCain 2008 all over it in that a bitter Stupid Partier, angry that he hasn’t been shown the proper reverence he feels he’s due, decides to destroy the party from within by providing evidence to an eager JournoList media that the Stupid Party is radical and extreme (“Even Newt Gingrich says so!”) and thus doomed unless they listen to them.
This sort of vendetta against the party only serves to keep the nation in bondage to the socialist Democrats. Any politician who puts their ego above the freedom of 300 million people should be shunned by society like a child molester. As if his makeout session on the couch with Pelosi and support for ethanol mandates weren’t warning enough.
I’ll be interested in seeing what supposed conservative pundits stick up for Newt and call him a viable and serious candidate after this. They can get lost along with Newt if they do.
“This would be a great job if it weren’t for the ****ing customers.” – Randal Graves, “Clerks”
Big 5's
Locked and Loaded (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 4:46PM EDT (link)nt
No GM, GE, or any GSE for me.
Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?
Matthew 20:15 NIV
Attention K-Mart Shoppers...
conservativecurmudgeon (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:51PM EDT (link)THIS is what the primaries are all about. THIS is why polls this early are useless.
Suddenly, we get to hear, first hand, from the the horses’ mouths (-or whatever) what these candidates REALLY think on the stump. Some will shine, others will wilt.
It’s not white papers, it’s not break-out sessions, it’s not opinion pieces: It’s raw, unscripted, Q&A. Which, by the way, is what governing is.
Thanks, Newt, for providing me with a reason to cross you off my list– which is too bad, because I had at least a glimmer of hope that you would, rhetorically speaking, be able to punch your way out of the leftist-media complex bag. Instead, you’ve slapped it over your own head, and now you are asphyxiating yourself with it. Too bad.
Had a Rip Van Winkle Experience?
edintexas Monday, May 16th at 8:14AM EDT (link)Newt, by showing his Statist tendencies, has been been giving Conservatives reasons to cross him off for years. This has been particularly true with his “ideas” on the healthcare issue.
Newt's run for president...
leefox Sunday, May 15th at 1:53PM EDT (link)…just ended.
Newt & Romney share the same problem...
charliesalmanack (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 1:58PM EDT (link)….they’ve got a long trail of “pro-mandate” comments/actions that they can’t run away from.
Our best “shot on goal”, so to speak, of getting rid of Obamacare is the Supreme Court ruling it is unconstitutional next year. Every single candidate ought to be talking about the unconstitutionality of the individual mandate…not defending it or variations of it.
It’s not constitutional. Period. And we weaken that argument when Newt & Romney are out there defending it…or variations of it.
The Supremes won't rule before the election...
acat (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 2:02PM EDT (link)Why should they get in the middle of this {charlie foxtrot} when politics created it and politics is the safest way to destroy it?
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
actually....
charliesalmanack (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 2:09PM EDT (link)….SCOTUS will very likely rule pror to the election. Just look at the timeline of the current appeals process.
It’s critical to continue to the drumbeat that the individual mandate is unconstitutional.
When discussing it, our primary candidates would ideally say something along the lines of, “I’m convinced that Obamacare is unconstitutional and will be declared so by our Supreme Court. But if, heaven forbid, they don’t declare it unconstitutional then rest assured that my first act as President will be…”
Actually ...
acat (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 2:18PM EDT (link)the time lines don’t matter to the SCOTUS. They set their own agenda, and if they want to ignore Obamacare until after Thanksgiving 2012, it is within their right do do so. They may, in fact, step in once they see the election returns.
Don’t confuse the black-robed ones with angels or demons .. end of the day, they’re men and women and are just as affected by politics as the rest of D.C.
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
Very true, acat. SCOTUS has responded this way in the past
lineholder (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 2:36PM EDT (link)it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if they chose this option on Obamacare.
it's true....SCOTUS
charliesalmanack (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 2:41PM EDT (link)…can and will set their own agenda as to timeline.
But as of right now the timeline is for this case to be heard and decided prior to the 2012 election.
My overall point, of course, is predicated on what you just wrote in your latest reply, acat. The “black-robed ones”, at least some of them, are men and women who are affected by the political climate. Which is why our candidates ought to be helping create a climate that actually supports striking Obamacare down by describing it as Unconstitutional.
Not, as Newt and Romney seem to be, either validating the Individual Mandate or some variation of it.
It will be hard to stone wall
gpclaw Sunday, May 15th at 3:15PM EDT (link)when more than half the states in the union are involved.
This brings me to a related point. Once a certain number of states have brought suit against the feds, why should they have to wait to bring their case before the Supreme Court?
The necessary and proper clause grants the congress the authority to pass laws pertaining to all powers granted by the constitution, not just those granted to congress. Should this be something we advocate for?
I agree with keeping the heat on Obamacare...
acat (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 3:22PM EDT (link)Pour on the coal! Pour on the gasoline! Create an environment where the people have spoken and the Supremes can just rubber-stamp it.
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
For the last decade or so, SCOTUS has been much quicker to hear and decide
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 5:06PM EDT (link)monumental constitutional cases. I expect that they will decide the issues before the election.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
"...my first act as President will be...
windwaker24 Sunday, May 15th at 2:22PM EDT (link)…repeal obamacare and REFORM the Supreme Court” because they’ve clearly lost their minds if they think Ocare is constitutional.”
The real irony of the mandate
rickbull Sunday, May 15th at 2:28PM EDT (link)is that the best argument against it is the precedent set by Roe v. Wade, the SCOTUS decision that made abortion legal. When you purchase health insurance, you voluntarily give up a significant amount of privacy concerning your doctor and medical care. That’s okay so long as it is voluntary. Obamacare mandates it, so that you do not have a choice. As I understand it, this is part of the argument being used by the MS AG.
Wouldn’t it be a wonderful thing to throw Roe v. Wade back into the face of a liberal?
WE ARE THE 53% (who actually pay taxes).
I would love
rcatheart Sunday, May 15th at 2:28PM EDT (link)to take an American history class from Newt. I think he’d be awesome.
I don’t want him to be President.
I'm with you on that one.
rickbull Sunday, May 15th at 2:38PM EDT (link)I have great respect for Newt as an academic and historian. But I have others in mind when it comes to POTUS. We need a fearless conservative who can handle the press the way Reagan did. I still remember the brilliant line Reagan used to put Sam Donaldson in his place:
Donaldson “So Mr. President, you say that the bad economy and interest rates and employment are things that you inherited. Do you take responsibilty for ANYTHING?”
Reagan “Oh well of course I do. I used to be a Democrat.”
WE ARE THE 53% (who actually pay taxes).
Newt splits thin hairs on HC mandate. . .
CMaree (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 2:31PM EDT (link)He says his 1993Meet The Press statement on individually-mandated HC vouchers he says differentiates from Obama’s legislation of a Federal fiat. REALLY?
Now Newt agrees with Romney, in that all Americans be held responsible to help pay for healthcare, saying that free riders apart from system should be held accountable. Newt’s stated triple choice HC proposal, that is, “either have health insurance or you post a bond, or in some way, you indicate you’re going to be held accountable”– Newt believes would set up a range of options designed by economy, rather than the DC. REALLY??
And what if individuals choose none of the above? Because that’s what the free market should allow, free choices, Mr. Speaker.
“The ultimate test of a moral society is the kind of world that it leaves to its children.” — Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Who? Who? Who?
Christian Sunday, May 15th at 2:35PM EDT (link)Huck is out and Newt obviously is not an option. Pawlenty seems like the GOP’s answer to Walter Mondale.
Sigh.
I’m a DC lawyer who gave to Obama for America in 2008, but lacks the honesty to mention in my comments that I’m opposed to all of you RedState readers from a fundamental level. Deep down, I know my comments are laden with morally bankrupt ideological assertions that won’t withstand scrutiny, so dishonesty is integral to my ability to argue on the Internet.
Herman Cain is the name
Freedoms Truth (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 2:55PM EDT (link)you are looking for.
Freedoms Truth,
Travis Monitor – http://travismonitor.blogspot.com
Austin, TX
Now wouldn't that be something?
trutexan Monday, May 16th at 6:28AM EDT (link)HC is the anti-Obama. Man, the liberal media would have a time with that wouldn’t they? I’d just love to sit back and watch them squirm. Racism my fanny. I asked a black guy at work if he knew who HC was and he didn’t. Imagine that. He gets my vote and I’m one of those racist-bigoted-homophobic-Texans too.
Ted Cruz (R) for Texas Senate.
Obama – Forward!
Proverbs 4:12-15
A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a forward mouth. He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers; Forwardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord. Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy.
Well they ARE both Minnesota Law grads. nt
20jan2013 (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 3:00AM EDT (link)http://archive.redstate.com/stories/the_parties/republicans/mitt_romney_lies_about_abortion
Newt just POLE-Axed his raison d'etre
Freedoms Truth (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 2:42PM EDT (link)The question to ask after this interview is: WHO STOLE NEWT’S BRAIN?
He’s now against “radical conservative change” because he doesnt like ‘radical’ and ‘change’…
I mean, after “Real Solutions” and “Real Change” and his willingness to blue sky so many great ideas and things????
I wouldnt mind if Newt made a critique of the Ryan plan, but base it constructively on ‘here’s what I’d do better’ and couch it in a “at least the Republicans have a solution to the impending bankruptcy of medicare, the Democrat just want to step on the gas pedal as we drive off the cliff.”
But Newt dissed it by calling it ‘radical’, when it is hardly radical but more like the minimum necessary to fix the budget crisis that looms.
Washington DC is disconnected from the rest of the country and the politicos and pundits get disconnected as well. This is why formerly good Republican conservatives go wobbly on us after some years. Such politicians end up needing to be retired.
Newt, alas, I thought you were made of sterner stuff than that. That sitting on the sofa with nancy Pelosi was indeed a ‘jump the shark’ moment … enjoy your retirement, you won’t be the nominee.
Freedoms Truth,
Travis Monitor – http://travismonitor.blogspot.com
Austin, TX
Igor dropped Newt's brain and had Dr Frankenstein transplant Bob Michel's - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 5:08PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
lol, I had put that sorry name out of my memory. nt
kyle8 (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 6:25PM EDT (link)“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
I wish eye-gor had put fro-drik thompson's brain in Calista's husband's hear instead - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 6:31PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
I used to be interested in Newt...
Jim Sunday, May 15th at 2:46PM EDT (link)…back after the 2006 debacle. I think he was trying to push the message that the GOP needs to get back to it’s conservative roots (often speaking of Reagan’s “bold colors, not pale pastels” remark).
But now it appears that he is being too “smart”, calculating, wonky, whatever for his own good. This is in addition to the fact that he is advocating big government, nanny-state ideas that disgust and repel the conservative/tea-party base that realizes that the federal government is bankrupt and the bill is coming due.
I am thinking more and more that the GOP primary is going to be steered (if not dominated) by candidates who simply, unapologetically, and in non “DC speak” promote grass-root conservatism. So far, it appears this would be limited to Cain, Paul, and Palin (if she gets in). Everyone else (Mitt, Newt, Santorum) smacks of that equivocating, floundering, hypocritical, uber-politician speak/vibe. (Still don’t know where Pawlenty, Daniels, and a couple other undeclared candidates will fall in that spectrum).
“If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion.”
F.A. Hayek
“Laws are no longer made by a rational process of public discussion; they are made by a process of blackmail and intimidation, and they are executed in the same manner. The typical lawmaker of today is a man wholly devoid of principle — a mere counter in a grotesque and knavish game. If the right pressure could be applied to him, he would be cheerfully in favor of polygamy, astrology or cannibalism.”
H.L. Mencken
Newt is sounding more and more like Obama in a way
bk (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 7:27AM EDT (link)a) Whatever my opponents say is wrong.
b) My plan will solve all our problems.
c) Just don’t ask me for any specifics.
This is classic Newt...
acat (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 9:13AM EDT (link)He’s always been very good at being the anti-{target} … but not so good once he gets to be in charge.
It worked out well for him during the Contact With America days, when he was pitched as the anti-Clinton. Unfortunately, the schtick isn’t wowing them in Keokuk this go’round.
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
Hope that someone is waiting in the wings
freshhorsesnow (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 3:25PM EDT (link)Way too many reasons not to vote for Newt now.
We will survive without him.
Makes me wonder who his advisory team is?
I hope there is someone waiting in the wings. If I was such a person, I would wait longer to jump in the race right now as well. Let the existing group take the media hits for the team while providing ACTION PLANS to help America recover.
Educate, educate, educate.
Me too!
bs61 Sunday, May 15th at 5:36PM EDT (link)They must be out of touch if they think his stance will appeal to anyone but the MSM!
Newt
banzaibob (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 3:40PM EDT (link)The party has changed since your 1996 debacle. Time to change partys or just go away, please!
Prefiero morir de pie que vivir de rodillas
It’s better to die upon your feet than to live upon your knees!
Emiliano Zapata
Newt
banzaibob (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 3:40PM EDT (link)The party has changed since your 1996 debacle. Time to change partys or just go away, please!
Prefiero morir de pie que vivir de rodillas
It’s better to die upon your feet than to live upon your knees!
Emiliano Zapata
Spreading the Cost to yourself
drfredc Sunday, May 15th at 4:01PM EDT (link)Newt’s right in regards to there being several ways for working folks to have some continuity of paying for care.
If folks are sold on the notion that coverage must be offered to those without prior coverage, there are all sorts of financial tools commonly used to spread payments out over time to cover the time and missing contributions to catastrophic pools of coverage one might have gone without coverage — including a finance charge… In other words, their coverage will cost enough to make up payments into the pool that they didn’t make.
Such a system would also be most compatible with high deductible catastrophic coverage offered as part of Medical Savings Accounts…
This doesn’t define an individual mandate, nor a bond, but rather common sense financing brought back into medical coverage. Folks who want to pay more by skipping out on catastrophic coverage, could roll the dice.
Sure, there will be some folks unable to pay, but hows that going to be any different with or without an individual mandate? Some will always end up getting care through some sort of charity care option — including but not limited to Medicaid and Medicare…
Always, Fred C
Unsubsribing.
uselogic Sunday, May 15th at 5:10PM EDT (link)Newt just lost me as one of his longtime newsletter subscribers & overall supporters. What the hell kind of answers were those if you really consider yourself a conservative? I didn’t like all his baggage before and now I don’t like his ideas… and those were his only real draw.
I personally witnessed the same response
lineholder (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 8:32PM EDT (link)in a long-time Newt supporter earlier today. The person was extremely upset and that’s putting it nicely.
Unsubsribing.
uselogic Sunday, May 15th at 5:10PM EDT (link)Newt just lost me as one of his longtime newsletter subscribers & overall supporters. What the hell kind of answers were those if you really consider yourself a conservative? I didn’t like all his baggage before and now I don’t like his ideas… and those were his only real draw.
kowalski
uselogic Sunday, May 15th at 5:11PM EDT (link)Unsubscribing… above.
you all just don't understand...
averagevoterdotcom Sunday, May 15th at 5:37PM EDT (link)Newt is already the nominee in his mind and running to the middle. He is the enlightened conservative that understands that the educated elite must manage the unruly masses. Solutions, not principles.
Make sense now?
Newt...
Bobcat51 Sunday, May 15th at 5:42PM EDT (link)…you seem to have an awful habit of pooping in your own nest !
The left wing intent is to destroy the existing society and replace it with a society of its own design.
Newt...
Bobcat51 Sunday, May 15th at 5:42PM EDT (link)…you seem to have an awful habit of pooping in your own nest !
The left wing intent is to destroy the existing society and replace it with a society of its own design.
Served his purpose
Frederick (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 7:07PM EDT (link)Newt served his purpose in 1994. He got the Contract With America in front of the voters and showed them an alternative to the Democrats.
He was an energetic spokesman for conservatism. He had lots of ideas and was able to articulate them to the average voter.
Now he’s lost touch. He’s swallowed the Potomac Pond Scum and become “one of them”: A statist social conservative hypocrite.
Follow Me on Twitter
“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
– - Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
The Idea Candidate…
TopGun Sunday, May 15th at 8:00PM EDT (link)…just showed us he is (1) Not a Republican or even a Conservative, (2) Loves a tyranny government, (3) Has no problem enslaving the citizens, (4) All the Above.
Thank you Huck and Newt.
chbroussard (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 8:18PM EDT (link)Able to cross two names off the list in just two short days…one by his own choice and one because of a severe case of hoof and mouth disease. Didn’t want to have to vote for either one of them and now I won’t have to. Thank you!
Thank you Huck and Newt.
chbroussard (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 8:18PM EDT (link)Able to cross two names off the list in just two short days…one by his own choice and one because of a severe case of hoof and mouth disease. Didn’t want to have to vote for either one of them and now I won’t have to. Thank you!
He is not endorsing THE individual mandate, he is endorsing some possible variation
clowngirl (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 8:54PM EDT (link)What’s the difference? The difference is huge.
I strongly oppose the individual mandate that will be part of Obamacare (if not happily struck down) not so much because the government would be requiring people to purchase a product but because they would be requiring many people to purchase a product at a vastly unfair and inflated price.
Liberals always bring up the (false) parallel of government requiring people to purchase car insurance but without ever closely examining the argument. Most states require drivers to purchase liability as well as uninsured motorist insurance — and yet, despite the purchase being mandatory – car insurance rates have not soared.
The reasons for this would be worth examining, I would expect that it has a lot to do with government interfering a lot less in the car insurance industry. Good drivers can be given much cheaper rates, bad drivers can be gouged appropriately. For e.g. a driver with a DUI(s) can expect his or her rates to double, triple or even quadruple.
Most people ( I would presume ) don’t have a problem with expecting drivers to carry some minimal insurance. I haven’t heard many people claiming it’s Unconstitutional and a massive overreach by the state governments.
IF, however, drivers who had never caused an accident or gotten so much as a ticket were suddenly required to carry full coverage insurance even if they owned their car outright and to pay vastly higher premiums so as to pay the same rate as those who are an ongoing menace — there would be outrage.
And that pretty closely parallels the situation with Obamacare.
There could potentially be a form of individual mandate — or required bond — that would not be offensive. If, for example low risk candidates were allowed to purchase major medical only insurance – with a deductible of $20,000 – and either they or (for example) their parents were expected to sign a pledge and show some means of paying the first $20,000 – would anyone object?
And would anyone need to be coerced into paying it.
I haven’t read Judge Vinson’s entire decision (though I should) but I do remember him saying (among other points) that one of the problems he had with the individual mandate that is proposed as part of Obamacare, was that (and I’m paraphrasing) a young person in their twenties would not have the option of buying inexpensive catastrophe insurance whose cost was commensurate with their genuine risk level.
So, I disagree with Erick’s interpretation of Newt’s remarks (which he quoted)
As for Newt not agreeing with Paul Ryan’s exact proposal on how to reform Medicare. So what? Is agreeing with every single aspectg of the Ryan Proposal (not feeling inclined to modify, improve on, or propose a different approach towards any of it) now a requirement for being a conservative.
There’s nothing to suggest Former Speaker Gingrich is Anti- Ryan. He has been very much in step with Paul Ryan at other times. (For example, currently with regard to the debt ceiling.)
Kowalski
clowngirl (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 9:02PM EDT (link)Meant to say: If healthy individuals were allowed to purchase catastrophe insurance with a $20,000 deductible – and such a policy only cost only $20 a month, would anyone object?
I submit that the issue is not just one of principle but one of cost. Or,,,, if it is one of principle, the principle is one more complicated than just whether government can force people to buy insurance (in some situations we’ve already established that they can)
The principle, in my view, is that it is wrong to force people to pay for more insurance than they need in order to further redistribute the income. It would not be wrong to genuinely hold people responsible and expect people to pay their medical bills.
Kowalski
clowngirl (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 9:02PM EDT (link)Meant to say: If healthy individuals were allowed to purchase catastrophe insurance with a $20,000 deductible – and such a policy only cost only $20 a month, would anyone object?
I submit that the issue is not just one of principle but one of cost. Or,,,, if it is one of principle, the principle is one more complicated than just whether government can force people to buy insurance (in some situations we’ve already established that they can)
The principle, in my view, is that it is wrong to force people to pay for more insurance than they need in order to further redistribute the income. It would not be wrong to genuinely hold people responsible and expect people to pay their medical bills.
Slippery slope
gpclaw Sunday, May 15th at 9:05PM EDT (link)The problem with any mandate, even one that is “less offensive” (I like that!) than ObamaCare, would still result in increased government power, and violate individual liberty.
Let’s say the less offensive mandate were implemented, and able to pass constitutional muster, what then? The precedent would be set for future some future congress to use the mandate in other aspects of our lives.
But there already are other mandates.
clowngirl (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 9:14PM EDT (link)gpclaw, I appreciate your point. But there are already other mandates (such as liability insurance for cars) and they haven’t lead to the extinction of our freedom.
Besides that – - consider how our welfare state shells out billions of dollars a year to pay for people who need emergency care and don’t have insurance. Is that not also a legitimate problem?
I see your point
gpclaw Sunday, May 15th at 9:32PM EDT (link)I did enjoy your point about the “offensiveness” of the mandate, and the non-offensive nature of auto insurance.
The difference with car insurance (non-offensive form), is that I my actions can create a direct cause to you. Stated better, you only incur a cost if I run into your car with my car. My requirement to carry liability insurance, as a condition of licensing/registering my vehicle (another major difference between auto/health insurance), is to protect your liberty from any direct damage I may cause.
With health insurance, my actions/inactions do not have a direct effect on anyone, except for myself. Yes, I’m sure their is a monetary cost to society, when care is provided to the uninsured, but it’s negligible. Even if it were significant, their are other ways to deal with it.
Let's try that again
gpclaw Sunday, May 15th at 9:36PM EDT (link)I did enjoy your point about the “offensiveness” of the mandate, and the non-offensive nature of auto insurance.
The difference with car insurance (non-offensive form), is that my actions can create a direct cost to you. Stated better, if I run into your car with my car, I am directly responsible for the damages to your property, and the cost associated with it. My requirement to carry liability insurance, as a condition of licensing/registering my vehicle (another major difference between auto/health insurance), is to protect your liberty from any direct damage I may cause.
With health insurance, my actions/inactions do not have a direct effect on anyone, except for myself. Yes, I’m sure their is a monetary cost to society, when care is provided to the uninsured, but it’s negligible. Even if it were significant, their are other ways to deal with it.
That's not entirely true
clowngirl (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 3:57PM EDT (link)gpclaw,
I appreciate your thoughtful comment and agree with you that – in some respects – requiring car insurance is different from requiring health insurance but disagree with your central premise (if a comment can be said to have a premise) that individual healthcare choices don’t have a direct impact on anyone else.
Law & Order highlighted the potential social responsibility with regard to health care choices in an episode that touched on whether we should require vaccines. They had a kid whose mother chose not to vacinate him contract the measles – and, as it was such an early stage that it wasn’t yet obvious that he was sick, the mom took him to a park where he exposed a little baby to the disease and the baby died. Her death was the direct result of the little boy not being vaccinated and the debate was whether the mother’s right to make healthcare choices for her son or her responsibility to others should take priority.
My mother did some graduate studies in public health and apparently, in countries where a good number of people don’t have access to healthcare – disease becomes rampant (there was some rough threshold over which it would basically gain critical mass and wipe out or at least infect thousands)
In America nearly everyone does have access to healthcare and we can take for granted that these things don’t happen — so the cause and effect/the direct impact is less obvious — but only because, so far, we have handled it well.
With regard to your statement that the cost of unpaid medical bills is negligible — I really don’t think that’s true, and expect that the impact on hospitals as well as the cost absorbed by those who do fully pay their bills is very significant. But I want to do some googling on the subject — and will respond more fully — probably in response to another RSer who commented on that issue.
I would argue that community ratings are a menace to public health (at least to the cost of public health) and to the common good. Unhealthy lifestyle choices greatly increase the risk of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and many other diseases and even more minor ailments. It is altogether fitting that people who smoke, overeat, or have high cholesterol should pay a LOT more for health insurance. Enabling people who are willfully destroying their health ( by shoving off the cost onto low risk individduals) deprives them of a powerful incentive to stop chain smoking, stuffing their faces or eating lots of fatty foods without exercizing and increases the likelihood of them eventually developing some extremely expensive disease that winds up being paid for in higher insurance premiums for everyone.
I would argue that if health insurance is not only affordable but priced in a manner commensurate with actual risk — most people would not object to buying it . The main problem with health insurance in America is simply that the cost is too high. And the cost is too high because the government has interfered too much: distorting incentives and limiting options.
As to your argument that their are other ways to deal with the problem of non-payment besides some form or mandate or bond — perhaps there are. I’m not actually arguing that we need a mandate. I’m just arguing that a mandate for catastrophe only coverage – priced according to genuine risk factors in a market where there were many options would be night and day different from the horrific mandate being proposed as part of Obamacare.
wrong analogy, clowngirl.
gekster (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 9:40PM EDT (link)If I don’t own a car, I don’t need the insurance.
not picken, just sayin.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
I’ve gone from
“Hope and Change” to
“Hopeless and Changeless”
What are some of those other mandates, clowngirl?
blooch Sunday, May 15th at 9:44PM EDT (link)Besides car liability insurance, which is not the same thing, IMO. We’ll see what the court says about that though.
You know what frosts me about personal liability insurance? The fact the I am told to by Uninsured Motorist Insurance to protect myself because so many people driving in America don’t have liability insurance. How come the gummint doesn’t have a welfare program for those people, but does have one for your emergency room squatters?
“Lieutenant Dike wasn’t a bad leader because he made bad decisions. He was a bad leader because he made no decisions.”
No it's not a legitimate problem.
Menlo (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 10:30PM EDT (link)Most emergency room care is compensated by the individuals seeking it. Of the small percentage who do not use their own insurance, the percentage who don’t pay makes the total negligible.
The sole argument for the requirement is that since insurers must cover pre-existing conditions, people would only get insurance when they were wanting to get a diagnosis or treatment for such a condition, usually long-term or chronic.
I would point out that the “Obamacare” individual mandate is not so much of a “mandate” when you consider the “penalty,” as legislated, is not enforceable beyond a denial of tax refunds and credits.
“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter
But there already are other mandates.
clowngirl (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 9:14PM EDT (link)gpclaw, I appreciate your point. But there are already other mandates (such as liability insurance for cars) and they haven’t lead to the extinction of our freedom.
Besides that – - consider how our welfare state shells out billions of dollars a year to pay for people who need emergency care and don’t have insurance. Is that not also a legitimate problem?
Bad Anology clowngirl
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 11:03PM EDT (link)since no one is required to drive a car, no one is required to have insurance until they chose to buy and drive a car. Not to mention the fact that driving a car can cost another person or persons a ton of money for their car or their care, and can even cost them their life if someone else is careless. Then that accident starts to affect not only the person or persons hurt or killed, but their family as well especially if the family is reliant on that person for support. This is the reason why people must agree to get insurance at a certain level if they CHOOSE to own a car. Me being sick or you being sick does not affect anyone personally, and the reality is, the uninsured do not affect us that much either since most hospitals already figure this loss into their cost. And with Obamacare, no one has a choice in getting insurance.
The thing about the uninsured is that the problem could be fixed quite easily. No money, no insurance, no care. Even if you still kept the requirement that life saving measures would be mandatory, you can keep the uninsured from using the hospital like a doctors office. Not dying, no money, no insurance, you go to your doctor.
There are ways to solve the issues without mandating that everyone have insurance. Not too mention the idiocy of the plans supporters. If a person can not afford a monthly premium now, what do they think is going to change when they are mandated to buy coverage especially considering the fact that Obama has already admitted that under his plan, the monthly premiums would be as high if not higher. If they can not afford it now, they will not be able to afford it under Obama, Difference is, now when they can not afford it, they will be charged a huge fine, and when they can not pay that, the powers that be will come against them and take the fine.
ABSOLUTELY NOT supporting the Obamacare Mandate
clowngirl (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 4:08PM EDT (link)With respect, PowertothePeople – you seem not to have read or to have missed the entire point of my original post.
The first thing I said is that supporting some form of mandate — where there was, for example: no community rating system forcing up the cost of insurance for the healthy, no government regulations artificially limiting choices — could be totally different from the monstronsity that has been proposed as part of Obamacare.
You comment (quoted below) makes it sound like I’m supporting the Obamacare mandate.
“There are ways to solve the issues without mandating that everyone have insurance. Not too mention the idiocy of the plans supporters. If a person can not afford a monthly premium now, what do they think is going to change when they are mandated to buy coverage especially considering the fact that Obama has already admitted that under his plan, the monthly premiums would be as high if not higher. If they can not afford it now, they will not be able to afford it under Obama, Difference is, now when they can not afford it, they will be charged a huge fine, and when they can not pay that, the powers that be will come against them and take the fine”
It matters little if you
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 5:59PM EDT (link)are supporting a mandate from Obama or some other version, they would all be unconstitutional and not a conservative tenant. Any form of mandate would have to have rule of law behind it to be enforced and the only way to force people to follow the law, would be for them to be jailed, fined, or both. And since being sick does not affect others directly, no way anyone can make a convincing point as to what any type of mandate should be forced on the population. And lastly, no matter what kind of mandate you put on, and I am not sure what other kinds of mandates exist other than what Obama has already put into “law” makes it any more conceivable for a person to be able to afford what they can not afford now.
PS
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 6:06PM EDT (link)Fixing certain problems such as eliminating the ban on shopping for insurance across state lines is not enacting a mandate on the actual person. It is simply fixing an issue that has allowed insurances to ream certain state citizens because they can not shop outside of their state. But this still has little to do with a mandate of any kind.
But as to your assertion that there be some rule not allowing insurance companies to set prices based on community standards, again against this since it is not the place of the government to force private companies to do as they want them to do. Allowing for out of state competition alone would force this practice out since now these companies would have to battle other companies for the lowest price.
I think you are using a word that does not actually fit the meaning of the word or your actual beliefs. Conservatives have been stating for some time now that the solution to the healthcare problem can be solved via private insurance, by opening up purchasing across state lines, limiting lawsuits and damages, etc. This would drive down the cost of not only the insurance but the actual care cost as well making it more affordable for the average Joe. A mandate, no matter what kind, is the forcing of individuals to maintain insurance because it is the law. This is the part most of America disagrees with.
I'm not actually advocating for a mandate
clowngirl (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 7:53PM EDT (link)just saying that I’m not sure the issue is so open and shut – and that, conceivably, SOME type of mandate might not be Unconstitutional.
I agree with much of what you post above. And I – like most everybody else around here – was thoroughly outraged about the Individual Mandate as part of Obamacare. (It’s kind of funny, I’ve even talked to liberals who passionately support Obamacare who will say “But I agree with you about the Individual Mandate.”)
But I do think the issue is more complicated than just “it’s my body, I can ruin my health if I want to” Responded to your comment about your health not affecting others in my response to gpclaw.
If I am seeing the post you want me to see
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Tuesday, May 17th at 2:48PM EDT (link)again you are twisting the issues. A parents decision to forgo a vaccination that can lead to massive outbreaks of a deadly disease is a far cry from someone being fat. eating too much salt, having cancer, etc. You are trying to compare rocks to oranges.
There is nothing about me being sick or unhealthy that can cause you direct harm. I am promising you that my condition in my brain will never cause you a loss. Nor will some fat guy, too much salt guy, etc.
A person with AIDS can not directly affect you hence no constitutional law that he must have insurance nor should there be. Now if the guy sleeps with women unprotected and does not inform them of his disease beforehand, that is a criminal act akin to me taking a gun coming into your house and shooting you.
Sickness is not something we should even consider mandating coverage on. But on the same token, if a person chooses not to get coverage, ends up needing a heart or they will die, can not afford it, then they do not get it. We die, we all will die, and at the end of the day it is still not the job of the government to mandate coverage since a persons own choices and dying will not directly affect the public. But when it comes to vaccines that protect society from disease or not informing of someone of AIDS, there are already criminal laws that deal with that. Placing a mandate into law will not prevent criminals from doing what they are already willing to do, it will simply take our rights away from us.
The Vaccine Issue is Far From a No Brainer
clowngirl (Diary) Tuesday, May 17th at 10:28PM EDT (link)Some vaccines have serious risks – can even possibly cause death. I remember a few years ago there was (merely) talk about a possibly requiring a small pox vaccine to guard against potential biological weapons – the shot could supposedly leave people disfigured or dead and people were up in arms ( I’m not sure how many – think I saw the matter discussed on a relatively obscure listserve) I know I wouldn’t have wanted the shot.
I’m not suggesting that requiring vaccinations for highly contagious and very serious diseases (a mandate, of sorts) is exactly the same as requiring everyone to carry health insurance. I was merely making the point that because some diseases are contagious there is a public interest in seeing that most people get health care.
You are making the point that some diseases are not contagious and therefore don’t *directly* affect others. That’s true – but only to a point. As most states employ some sort of community ratings system which allows the sick and those who court illness with unhealthy lifestyles to avoid paying the full cost of their care/risk — and forces others to either 1. pay higher premiums to pay for them or 2. take the risk of having no insurance.
There is also the matter of taking up the resource of doctors time, etc. – and skewing the supply and demand more in favor of doctors.
That said, I don’t think our views are quite as far apart as you imagine. I voluntarily went uninsured for years – despite the fact I could “afford” insurance if I chose to save less money or make fewer discretionary purposes. I deemed it a waste of money – and was outraged (and still am) that Obamacare will (if successfully implemented ) start to force people to buy overpriced insurance that is more than they need.
That said, I think your comment that we can just let people who don’t have insurance/can’t afford health care die is rather – what’s the word- facile?
I don’t think people – however conservative – would really want people with life threatening conditions denied treatment because they didn’t have the insurance or the cash to pay for it — but it is also unfair to expect hospitals to bear the burden of all this uncompensated care (along with the patients who CAN and DO pay for their care and pay for the indigent/the dead beats with higher costs) We need to get away from this nonsense about healthcare being a “right” (though, in one limited way of thinking – for example in life threatening situations – I do think I doctor would have an obligation to do what he or she could to save a life ) and transform it from a collective, back to an individual responsibility.
It is, I believe, in that spirit, that Newt made his remarks. There are, perhaps, other ways to acheive that — make it easy for hospitals to garnish wages, for example, change the bankruptcy laws ( I read the other day that something like 61% of personal bankruptcies are due to medical bills)
Hate to break this to you
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Wednesday, May 18th at 7:59PM EDT (link)and not going to get into that entire post, but………
I would agree there are some risks to some vaccines, that is a given. But not sure what that has to do with your argument. You brought up the measles issue and the show on law and order that dealt with that. You can call forcing people to vaccinate their kids against measles a mandate, but that is a stretch if you compare that mandate to one that requires people to have insurance. Even with risk, there is a greater risk to the surrounding populus should a person not get their child vacinated.The child with the disease could literally wipe out most of a school, a daycare, etc. I agree there are certain diseases that are dangerous to the population, but there are already laws or procedures that are in place to protect society as a whole. And when you are dealing with something like AIDS, a person who willfully infects another will face criminal prosectution as would a parent who endangers the people around them becuase they refused vaccines.
As to your insurance costs, you are right yet you are wrong. Call it community standards if you want, but that really has nothing to do with the unhealthy. Let me give an example.
A coal mining town poses certain risks. Insurance companies will deem the area high risk and policy cost will reflect that. But even in a town such as that, those who are healthy will pay less than those who are not. This is why when you take out a policy, a nurse will visit your home or they will send you to a doctor. Same with a life insurance policy. They test you for cancer, cholestorol, heart disease, take your weight, test for nicotine and or drugs, and then give you a price. A person who is healtht. does not smoke or do drugs, is not overweight, will pay less than someone who does smoke, drink, etc. There is an element of passing cost off to all customers, but this is not an abnormal practice. They do the same thing with life insurance, car insurance, hospital bills, etc. Mandating coverage will not end this practive or the very plan Obama has would be much cheaper.
I also agree the uninsured take up resources, but that is the PC world we live in. Mandates will not change that. The only way to change that is to not only allow hospitals to refuse service to both the uninsured and illegals, but requires it. People want to use the hospital as their doctors office and hospitals have no choice in treating them. I am quite familar with this. Not too long ago I had kidney stones that were like hell was in my body. I went to the hospital and waited for over 3 hours in horrible pain, vomitting, pissing blood, etc. Nurse after nurse appologized to me and explained there were so many people in the hospital that night for nothing more than what most of us would go to a doctor for.I saw them, you know the “sick” ones, walking around, talking on their phones, laughing, going outside to smoke, etc and became so mad I went beserk and finally they came out, hit me with some wonderful dope, then hurried me back. But until we are willing to give hospitals the right to refuse to waste their resources on BS visits, this will continue.
I am not wanting folks to die, but the reality is we all die. We should not get things we can not afford or did not prepare for just because we want them. It may seem callous, but people die. If a person can not afford treatment because they either did not save the money, did not plan for it, or did not do the mature thing and get coverage, I am sorry, but that is the way they made it, they do not get it. My friend walked around on a knee for years that needed replaced because he could not afford it and did not have insurance. Did I feel for him, yes. But he made his own bed. But what angered us both was the dropouts, drug addicts, illegals, etc who got what they wanted with entitlements.
There is a difference between refusing life sustaing care (within reason of course) and society paying for a dying persons new heart all because that person did not do what they needed to do and buy coverage. There is a line, and we need to set it. Do I want the guy who needs a heart to die, no. But at the same time, it was his responsibility to take care of his own business, and it is not our job to do it for him now.
And last, I can believe the high percentage of people bankruptcies being due to medical cost. But this again goes back to why did you not have coverage. But this still does not mean we need a mandate. We do need to give lawsuit caps a second thought so we can reduce the cost of healthcare, we need to consider giving hospitals the right to refuse service to those deemed not in danger of dying, we need to consider garnishment of wages as you suggested, but the fact is we need to reform healthcare and lawsuits, not to throw mandates on people. Government intervention just does not work, has not worked in the past, will not work in the future.
A couple quick things
clowngirl (Diary) Saturday, May 21st at 10:47AM EDT (link)1. It sounds like you just aren’t familiar with community ratings – and the like – there are states where policies cost about the same regardless of risk factors. At 25 I moved from Colorado (where I was paying less than $100 a month for catastrophic coverage) to New York where I suddenly had to pay about $450 a month for ANY type of health coverage. They didn’t ask if I smoked or drank, how much I weighed, what my cholesterol level was — because, for pricing purposes, it didn’t matter.
2. I can see your point that there needs to be some kind of moral hazard — but still find your “just let people die” argument unpersuasive. Even in less extreme cases the denial of medical care seems self evidently wronga. For example: there was a story years ago (that my mother brought to my attention in order to argue I should purchase insurance) about a guy who had a broken jaw and didn’t have insurance. He was willing to pay — but would need to do so in installments. He was refused treatment by three different doctors before he found one who was willing to treat him and set up a payment plan.
clowngirl
gpclaw Wednesday, May 18th at 12:08AM EDT (link)Ultimately, the question of whether a compelling public interest does/doesn’t exist is besides the point. The real question is whether or not the feds have the authority to act. As powertothepeople has already pointed out, the Constitution does not grant the feds the authority.
States, on the other hand, don’t have the same restrictions. This is why RomneyCare, love it or hate it, is different than ObamaCare.
I apologize for sounding so cliche, but the free market can address a majority of the concerns of the uninsured. For example, Wal*Mart has been teaming up with local health care providers, to create health care clinics that offer basic health care services. It hasn’t happened everywhere, but my local Wal*Mart offers such a service, and the prices are really good. Most of the services they offer cost $55, and vaccinations range from $25 to $75.
If you really want to see the prices for health care come down, lower the licensing requirements required to offer basic services. Most basic medical services can be handled by nurses, instead of doctors. If an RN could open a clinic that only offered basic check ups, shots, etc, not only would this create a great opportunity for entrepreneurs, it would also eliminate the need,to have these services covered by health insurance.
I agree on the federal vs. state rights
clowngirl (Diary) Saturday, May 21st at 10:17AM EDT (link)from what I read of Judge Vinson’s ruling, (about 20 pages before I got too drowsy to continue – it was late and a was really tired to start with) it’s all about how the federal government doesn’t have the authority — so yes, I would agree that (gag reflex) RomneyCare’s mandate is different from Obamacare’s.
I also agree that expanding options by changing licensing requirements could cut cut costs.
I also largely agree with your point about the free market.
Newt is No Longer a Conservative
kipling (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 8:56PM EDT (link)Newt’s big mantra is making government work more efficiently not reducing the size of government. Since his speakership he has become a solid Washington insider and show no interest in returning power and freedom to the states or the people.
I also have reservations about his leadership abilities. Several House members under his speakership considered him too scattered and unfocused when it came to getting the agenda accomplished. Delay was not a big fan of his leadership style.
I was bullish Newt until this.
avgjo (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 9:33PM EDT (link)I gather that he has some polling data along the lines of ’70-80% of Americans believe that everybody should pay some of their own healthcare’ and extended it to this. He seems to try to vamp on Reagan’s ability to find and focus on issues that the majority of the country agrees on. I wonder whether this just doesn’t reduce to him reading polls and basing his positions on that. Such an unprincipled approach to politics we do not need in a leader.
Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.
It’s the morality, stupid.
Kowalski
avgjo (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 9:37PM EDT (link)We need somebody with the guts of Trump, the brains/imagination of Gingrich, the principled conservatism of Mike Pence and the screen/stage presence of Ronald Reagan. Herman Cain seems to have these, I just don’t know if he’s viable.
No one seems to sufficiently address the heart of these problems: government involvement in health care and the resulting inflation in it.
Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.
It’s the morality, stupid.
Viability
catt (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 4:43PM EDT (link)“We need somebody with the guts of Trump, the brains/imagination of Gingrich, the principled conservatism of Mike Pence and the screen/stage presence of Ronald Reagan. Herman Cain seems to have these, I just don’t know if he’s viable.”
How could someone with all of those things going for him NOT be viable?
I’d add that Cain has a message that will reach deep into the moderate/independent voter spectrum … without losing the right.
It's actually the only thing most people oppose.
Menlo (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 10:36PM EDT (link)The polls show majority support for every major provision of Obamacare except this one. He’s actually going in the opposite direction.
“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter
No, I get that menlo. I meant that I think Newt
avgjo (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 12:43AM EDT (link)has misinterpreted poll data in which people express their belief in personal responsibility for health care and manifested it this way. IIRC, there were polls during the Obamacare rage that the dims tried to use to shore up support for it. In these, people expressed their belief that there should be no free riders in the health care, and the dims twisted this to the individual mandate. That’s what I think Newt has done.
Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.
It’s the morality, stupid.
That's not at all what I see the public supporting.
Menlo (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 1:16AM EDT (link)Though it’s pretty much like announcing that water is wet, headlines such as this pretty much sum up where public opinion was, is, and always will be on health care.
“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter
I think he's the perfect GOP candidate...
Praying (Diary) Sunday, May 15th at 10:37PM EDT (link)for the democrats! For the rest of us? HELL no!
No!!!11!1!!1!1! The Bilderbergers are coming
Exactly in what way is Newt smart?
charm2 Monday, May 16th at 1:07AM EDT (link)Every time someone starts talking about Newt they always preface it with some version of, “Newt’s a smart guy. Probably the smartest gop guy out there.” Frankly,Newt is clueless. I guess the meaning of the 2010 election just whizzed right by him. . Why anyone considers this gas bag a candidate is beyond me.
Incidentally, the unibomber was considered brilliant. The problem was, he was also murderously crazy. Some times smart isn’t enough.
Newt, we hardly knew ye
Adjoran (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 2:15AM EDT (link)But we knew ye well enough – toodles!
Pathetic Old Men
BigRedConservative (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 2:51AM EDT (link)Please tell me we have someone better to choose from.
And two and two always makes a five
It’s the devil’s way now
There is no way out
You can scream and you can shout
It is too late now
Radiohead
Kowalski spellcheck
BigRedConservative (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 12:49PM EDT (link)Meant to say “Man”, not “Men”. Hopefully there’s only one of him.
And two and two always makes a five
It’s the devil’s way now
There is no way out
You can scream and you can shout
It is too late now
Radiohead
Is there anybody pro-Newt on here?
rogershru2 (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 6:44AM EDT (link)I am just curious who is left to support him after he alienates virtually everyone. I imagine we will get about the same number of pro-Newt responses as we would pro-Johnson responses…
“We used to have the best infrastructure in the world here in America. We’re the country that built the Intercontinental Railroad …” – President Obama
SIC TRANSIT GLORIA, BYE BYE NEWT
bryankdonnelly (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 6:50AM EDT (link)That DOES it! AS if his support of the human caused “climate change” hoax and propaganda spot with la Pelosi was not enough! Now he’s endorsing the statist unconstitutional individual mandate!
Newt is FINISHED as a GOP candidate. He now joins Mitt “Ronmeycare” Romney as utterly unacceptable to ANY genuine conservative. Shame really. He’s a great speaker-communicator and idea guy. He’d be a great candidate. But he has joined the RINO “socialism Lite” Republicans of the Dick Lugar, Lamar Alexander, Lindsay Graham school; guys we actually have to PURGE in the Republican primaries. Bye bye Newt.
Bryan
Newt has a terminal case of....
jiminga Monday, May 16th at 7:13AM EDT (link)I am the smartest guy in the room-itis, not unlike someone in the white house. True, Newt is the idea guy but it would be good if some of his ideas were good. Oh, and he’s NOT a conservative.
Newt has a terminal case of....
jiminga Monday, May 16th at 7:13AM EDT (link)I am the smartest guy in the room-itis, not unlike someone in the white house. True, Newt is the idea guy but it would be good if some of his ideas were good. Oh, and he’s NOT a conservative.
Recite this with Me
lakecrazy Monday, May 16th at 7:29AM EDT (link)I want all of the candidates to understand this and be able to recite it.
Republican Creed:
I do not choose to be a common man.
It is my right to be uncommon.
If I can seek opportunity, not security,
I want to take the calculated risk to dream and
build, to fail and to succeed.
I refused to barter incentive for dole.
I prefer the challenges of life to
guaranteed security, the thrill of fulfillment
to the state of calm utopia.
I will not trade freedom for beneficence,
nor my dignity for a handout.
I will never cower before any master,
save my God.
It is my heritage to stand erect, proud and
unafraid. To think and act for myself, enjoy the
benefit of my creations; to face the whole world
boldly and say, “I am a free American.”
5
gekster (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 8:09AM EDT (link)are you the author?
I want to give proper credit when I post it on bookface.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
I’ve gone from
“Hope and Change” to
“Hopeless and Changeless”
Author
lakecrazy Monday, May 16th at 8:44AM EDT (link)I don’t know who wrote it, but will try to find out. But here is a link:
http://www.scfrw.org/republicanCreed.html
Thanks.
gekster (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 8:54AM EDT (link)They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
I’ve gone from
“Hope and Change” to
“Hopeless and Changeless”
Not sure when Reps adopted/adapted
lakecrazy Monday, May 16th at 10:51AM EDT (link)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Alfange
interesting that he was Liberal.. shows how the political parties change over time.
and more telling, this is (currently) the Democrat’s Creed:
http://libertyvilledems.org/?p=261
ALL
gunslingr45 Monday, May 16th at 8:39AM EDT (link)I can think of is him and Nancy sitting on the couch. If the dems cross over and vote for this guy like they did McCain, I’m voting third party.
C'mon, Erick - Put Newt's Mandate Comments in Context
minncon (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 9:32AM EDT (link)I watched Newt on “Meet the Press” and I got a feeling he was trapped by David Gregory’s question and the videotape he played of Newt’s comments a decade ago. I don’t for a second think that a President Gringrich would force an individual mandate on America. The guy is the most connected to the Reagan philosophy of any candidate out there (he actually did some of the heavy lifting for Reagan.)
Here’s how it actually went down:
——
MR. GREGORY: All right, let me ask you about another hot-button issue in the Republican primary, of course, and that’s health care. Mitt Romney having to defend his proponent–that he was a proponent of universal health care in Massachusetts, and specifically around this idea of the individual mandate where you make Americans buy insurance if they don’t have it. Now, I know you’ve got big difference with what you call Obamacare. But back in 1993 on this program this is what you said about the individual mandate. Watch.
(Videotape, October 3, 1993)
REP. GINGRICH: I am for people, individuals–exactly like automobile insurance–individuals having health insurance and being required to have health insurance. And I am prepared to vote for a voucher system which will give individuals, on a sliding scale, a government subsidy so we insure that everyone as individuals have health insurance.
(End videotape)
MR. GREGORY: What you advocate there is precisely what President Obama did with his healthcare legislation, is it not?
REP. GINGRICH: No, it’s not precisely what he did. In, in the first place, Obama basically is trying to replace the entire insurance system, creating state exchanges, building a Washington-based model, creating a federal system. I believe all of us–and this is going to be a big debate–I believe all of us have a responsibility to help pay for health care. I think the idea that…
MR. GREGORY: You agree with Mitt Romney on this point.
REP. GINGRICH: Well, I agree that all of us have a responsibility to pay–help pay for health care. And, and I think that there are ways to do it that make most libertarians relatively happy. I’ve said consistently we ought to have some requirement that you either have health insurance or you post a bond…
MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
REP. GINGRICH: …or in some way you indicate you’re going to be held accountable.
MR. GREGORY: But that is the individual mandate, is it not?
REP. GINGRICH: It’s a variation on it.
MR. GREGORY: OK.
REP. GINGRICH: But it’s a system…
MR. GREGORY: And so you won’t use that issue against Mitt Romney.
REP. GINGRICH: No. But it’s a system which allows people to have a range of choices which are designed by the economy. But I think setting the precedent–you know, there are an amazing number of people who think that they ought to be given health care. And, and so a large number of the uninsured earn $75,000 or more a year, don’t buy any health insurance because they want to buy a second house or a better car or go on vacation. And then you and I and everybody else ends up picking up for them. I don’t think having a free rider system in health is any more appropriate than having a free rider system in any other part of our society.
============================
That’s a different than just “endorsing an individual mandate.” That’s a master politician dodging the issue.
Newt Gingrich is the only one who could outfox Obama and the media – the rest of the Republican field (so far) is D.O.A. in the voting booth. Check out his ballsy reply to David Gregory’s hint that he was being racist in calling Obama the first “food stamp president” (referring to the fact that a record number of people are on food stamps, due to Obama’s policies.)
=========================
MR. GREGORY: First of all, you gave a speech in Georgia with language a lot of people think could be coded racially-tinged language, calling the president, the first black president, a food stamp president.
REP. GINGRICH: Oh, come on, David.
MR. GREGORY: What did you mean? What was the point?
REP. GINGRICH: That’s, that’s bizarre. That–this kind of automatic reference to racism, this is the president of the United States. The president of the United States has to be held accountable. Now, the idea that–and what I said is factually true. Forty-seven million Americans are on food stamps. One out of every six Americans is on food stamps. And to hide behind the charge of racism? I have–I have never said anything about President Obama which is racist.
MR. GREGORY: Well, what did you mean?
REP. GINGRICH: Well, it’s very simple. He has policies–and I used a very direct analogy. He follows the same destructive political model that destroyed the city of Detroit. I follow the model that Rick Perry and others have used to create more jobs in Texas. You know, Texas two out of the last four years created more jobs than the other 49 states combined. I’m suggesting we know how to create jobs. Ronald Reagan did it. I was part of that. We know how to create jobs. We did it when I was speaker. And, and the way you create jobs is you have lower taxes, you have less regulation, you have litigation reform. When the New York Stock Exchange puts its headquarters at Amsterdam, Holland and, by the way, follows 40 other companies in the last year; when General Electric pays zero in taxes; there’s something fundamentally wrong with the current system. The Obama system of the National Labor Relations Board basically breaking the law to try to punish Boeing and to threaten every right-to-work state. The Environmental Protection Agency trying to control the entire American economy by bureaucratic fiat. The Obama system’s going to lead us down the path to Detroit and destruction. I think we need a brand-new path. It’s a path of job creation. And one of the central themes of this campaign is going to be paychecks vs. food stamps.
==================
We need more Republicans like him who can slap down the stupidity of the media. And for you people who think Newt’s prior marriages make him unelectable:
Remember, Ronald Reagan was divorced, too.
Get real – Newt is no McCain-like R.I.N.O.
“When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, “Well, what do you need?” -Steven Wright
mandates and impositions
arthurmanger17 (Diary) Tuesday, May 17th at 4:55PM EDT (link)Exactly my thoughts. As a member of the tea party I understand that no matter which party or ideology creates the mandate or imposes a solution by Washington it still is a mandate and an imposition.
“There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters” — Daniel Webster
This is what the tea party is trying to protect this from, The ones who mean to be our masters. It’s seems that the Washington press and talking heads hasn’t gotten it yet. The whole of that interview was about taking power from the federal government and not just changing who is running the federal government. Let the private sector with freedom of enterprise be the driving force. It’s how the tea party works, maybe that why it’s so hard for some to understand the movement.
Obama-Lite
thewritejerry Monday, May 16th at 9:39AM EDT (link)I think Newt’s goal is to be “Obama-lite” – he still aims to allow the progressives to move the government towards the Left, but at a much slower and subtle pace. I believe his thinking is that he’ll win the White House by garnering votes via name-recognition, the “Republican” label, and by presenting himself as a more experienced, not so socialist version of Obama. His rallying cry will be “Vote for me because I’m closer to the center than anybody else.” Unfortunately, the center has moved decidedly left. Here’s to hoping that Newt hamstrings himself trying to pull his foot from his mouth.
No Newt
geezer840 Monday, May 16th at 11:09AM EDT (link)In January he tells us how good Ethanol subsidies are. Now he thinks Federal Mandates to buy insurance are a good thing. We’ve had enough of this kind of leadership.
Sorry, Newt. NO!
Gingritch is no Conservative
davidmadison Monday, May 16th at 12:38PM EDT (link)My mom is eligible for Medicare. She likes her private insurance coverage better. I am something over a decade,(closer to two), from retirement and, if needed, all I think I’d need is a voucher to offset the expense of health care coverage. (emphasis on IF needed.)
Two factors are against this kind of coverage.
First, there is the insurance industry, that loves the status quo: There is no bargain hunting going on by consumers enrolled into Medicare. The insurance industry is heavy invested in hospitals, HMOs, etc, using the high income generated from these to float the high cost of coverage. A three percent margin of profitability isn’t worth much, (insurance industry average), unless you’re a huge mega-corporation. Viewed another way, rending 3% fat from a squirrel isn’t going to net you much. Three percent from a whale, by comparison, is huge.
Second, Doctors are no different than any other human being. They, like we, want to earn the highest income with the least amount of work required to sustain it. Give the Medicare subscriber a voucher and, the competition is on to attract that Customer’s voucher their way. The voucher customer has a limited budget, so, the best value is going to be the theoretical winner. This competition forces leaner profits. And, competition will have the added benefit of driving down health care costs. (Tax payers and consumers win!)
So, to my thinking, there are at least two lobbies against a voucher system, which, to my thinking is the best possible solution to Medicare/Medicaid budgetary sustainability issues.
For these reasons, Gingritch is way off base on the issue and, is showing himself to be another DC Liberal, in Conservative costume, (RINO). (I think he may really have been a Conservative, long, long ago. It must have died when he decided politics was a vocation instead of an ideological imperative.)
No Newt or Mitt or Tim or Mitch, Please
rsmith7042 (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 12:43PM EDT (link)I really hope Mitt does not run. Newt has already lost. Every time he opens his mouth he alienates everyone in the GOP in one way or another. Pawlenty, the media darling, is another blow dried heavily hair-sprayed mama’s boy from the suburbs with no military service or any other record of public service, except taking taxpayer money. Cain is the real Republican, the real conservative, the real deal. Pawlenty should get out and let a man do this. It is no place for a boy. CAIN-RUBIO 2012!
Russell A. Smith, M.Ed.
LTC, IN, USA, Ret.
No, Bachman-Rubio
bryankdonnelly (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 2:15PM EDT (link)I LOVE Herman Cain. First discovered him when I was in Atlanta on business and (as alwayd in Atlanta) stuck in traffic. Been downloading his podcasts and listening to ‘em on my MP3 ever since. But he has no national political experience. THAT should be a qualification, but alas is not.
I favor Michelle Bachman, the only one in the race with real “cojones.”
Bryan
PS - This can be done without a mandate
davidmadison Monday, May 16th at 1:10PM EDT (link)I want to add that, it isn’t by any means necessary to have a government mandate to carry insurance or a bond – as “Mitt” Gingritch insists. (A person with the means and no coverage is still liable to suit – Bankruptcy ain’t the get off scott-free it once was either.)
I don’t know about you but, I’m not hoping my next medical issue is terminal, so I can get away – without paying the bills.
Kind of a shame.
uselogic Monday, May 16th at 1:22PM EDT (link)I saw Newt last night on CSPAN, giving hsi stump talk to teh Georgia Republican Party Convention. He sounded good even with a cold. He sounded like the fundamental conservative with bright ideas he portrays until the D.C. in him comes out.
It almost makes me sad that someone who speaks that clearly and handles pointed questions that adroitly has this “Bad Newt” side. But as I mentioned in a response above, he’s lost me.
Kind of a shame.
uselogic Monday, May 16th at 1:22PM EDT (link)I saw Newt last night on CSPAN, giving hsi stump talk to teh Georgia Republican Party Convention. He sounded good even with a cold. He sounded like the fundamental conservative with bright ideas he portrays until the D.C. in him comes out.
It almost makes me sad that someone who speaks that clearly and handles pointed questions that adroitly has this “Bad Newt” side. But as I mentioned in a response above, he’s lost me.
in between conf calls.....
uselogic Monday, May 16th at 1:23PM EDT (link)So I apologize for not spell-checking.
I missed Newt over the weekend and now I am glad i did.
ihateliberals Monday, May 16th at 1:43PM EDT (link)If I had heard him say these things it would have ruined my whole weekend. what has happened to one great conservative. Is there something in the water that is turning these people into Zombies. Until I heard this i would have put my entire backing and support to Newt. Now i feel like i have been stabbed in the Heart. ;-(( I guess my only chance now is for Tim Pawlenty. I’m really beginning to get a sick feeling way down deep. I never thought i wuld live to see the end of my country. Obama is looking like a shoe-in for 2012 and if that happens it will be the end of the USA as we know it. He will be a lame-duck with nothing to lose for whatever law he signs into law. ;-((
Newt still in...
snowshooze (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 2:47PM EDT (link)Obama just couldn’t afford to pay Trump to run…
But Newt can be had for a bargain.
I heard Mr. Gingrich try and walk back
runner12 (Diary) Monday, May 16th at 6:51PM EDT (link)His criticism of Ryan on Hannity’s radio program.He stated that what he meant was that the American people must have “buy in” to all of the big changes that need to be made and that Washington should not just impose things one people. Sounds quite reasonable, BUT unfortunately that is NOT what he said on Meet The Press.
All of his walking back is all spin because he knows he just sunk himself. Gingrich is not new to politics nor the media. He was not ” trapped” by Gregory. He was spewing his establishment beliefs and showing himself to be the old GOP guard.
Not sure how he tried to spin the individual mandate thing.
If Newt was nervous then he should say so
Juggernaut (Diary) Tuesday, May 17th at 8:54PM EDT (link)Glad to see him walk it back but now he’s gotta make good with the party base. What Newt should of done is take a breathe and think for a second rather than feeling pressured to answer quickly. Makes me wonder what Romney will actually do if elected because Romneycare is the exact opposite of the Ryan plan.
I think Newt felt compelled knowing the liberal establishment will beat down on him if he sided with Ryan’s plan. The liberal media have trashed the plan….hell they went negative in less than 30 minutes after Ryan published the plan. Doubt they even read it at that juncture. No need to appeal to liberals, Obama tells them what to think as do his media sheeple.
RomneyCare is Right Wing Socialism –
Romney “severely conservative”? That’s the opposite of a “compassionate conservative” like George W. Bush? Actually, we know what a severely conservative is. It’s Dick Cheney and Mitt Romney is no Dick Cheney.