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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Michele Bachmann Sets A Very High Bar at Right Online #RO11

Michele Bachmann was scheduled to speak for 17 minutes at Right Online. She took an extra 18 minutes and 30 seconds.

The whole speech felt like it was only a few minutes. It was funny, fascinating, informative, and powerful. She set the bar very, very high for other candidates.

Her tax lawyer background showed in her speech, as did her faith. She used a dollar bill, folding it to show how Barack Obama’s policies have devalued it 14% and how the federal government borrows 42% of every dollar spent. She had the audience join her so they too can show others.

She hit Obama on something few Republicans ever do — unemployment in the Hispanic and black communities, noting how his policies have hurt the very groups he pledged to help. She focused as well on youth unemployment. Black youth in this country face 40% unemployment this summer and Hispanic youth face over 20%. Astonishing.

Bachmann brought the crowd to its feet multiple times. She pledged that she would not fight until Obamacare is repealed. She tackled medicare reform too. She pointed out that while the Democrats are scaring old people about Republican reforms, the Democrats took $500 billion from Medicare to fund healthcare for the young. She says the GOP needs to start pointing out that Barack Obama intends to bankrupt medicare and force senior citizens into Obamacare.

The speech really was dazzling and not because of the zingers and one liners. It was an extremely substantive speech about how Obama’s policies are hurting the country. Its substance, facts, and figures sets a very high bar for the other Presidential candidates who will be speaking at Right Online.

This afternoon both Tim Pawlenty and Herman Cain will speak. We’ll see if they clear the bar.

COMMENTS

  • throwback59

    really took her as a serious presidential candidate. However, after watching her performance in the debate, and reading this post, I am starting to look at her in a whole new light.

  • lineholder

    especially emphasizing how the policies of the current admin are proving to be absolutely devastating for the black and legal Hispanic communities. I’ve been hoping that one of the candidates would draw attention to these facts.

    Now, let’s see who can succeed in presenting viable alternatives. Personally, I think this is where putting emphasis on the potential that exists within our free market enterprise system could prove to really draw attention to the direction that our nation genuinely NEEDS to go in from this point forward.

    Get rid of the regulations. Have government stop trying to “help” us as much. Get them out of our way. Unleash the creativity and ingenuity of the people of this country in a way that could provide viable, long-term free-market enterprise opportunities.

  • Jim Tomasik

    Does she have any executive experience in business?

  • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

    the highest degree one can achieve in the field of law (equivalent to a doctorate in any other field). Her husband has a PhD in Clinical Psychology. They have five children of their own, and have fostered 23 others. These are two people who not only preach pro-life, they walk the walk.

    The left has tried to paint Bachmann as a radical wingnut for years. That is because she scares the living crap out of them. An attractive woman who is educated and speaks her mind is a recipe for insanity in liberals

    You go, Michele!

  • bs61

    I have liked hearing her on talk radio, but she looked great in the debate! Plus her name was the #1 google search that night.

  • bs61

    Where is George Washingon’s resume?

    Give me a break! We need less of those.

  • jaykali

    That doesn’t make any sense. Obamacare isn’t some cohesive plan like medicare, it’s a patch-work bundle of regulations, taxes, cuts to medicare, mandates, etc. Medicare is already single payer, why would they want to bankrupt it? Once this thing goes bankrupt it’s game over. I feel like it’s already to late, who said once you can vote yourself money, it’s over? We are already on that trajectory.

  • acat

    I presume you did not mean to say “She pledged that she would not fight until Obamacare is repealed” as this appears she’s not going to do much of anything… and the tenor of the rest of the piece indicates otherwise.

    The more I hear about Bachmann the more I like her.

    Mew

  • acat

    Ol’ wooden-teeth had quite a resume’, actually.

    And regarding Bachmann, it’s a valid question that deserves a serious answer.

    Mew

  • rickey5825

    Where’s Obumble’s resume!The man’s a dolt!They say He’s the smartest guy in any room.What?Are these rooms full of preschoolers?
    Bachmann’s been a tax lawyer,state legislator and Representative in the US congress.Compare Obumble’s resume;student,community organizer(read that”thug”),part time law professor in constitutional law (no really…..Stop laughing!),Illinois senator(usually voted “present” except in favor of partial birth abortion),2 years as Jr US senator from Illinois,(campaigned for president for most of that time),and now POTUS,where He has spent most of his time golfing, vacationing,
    apologizing for US ,bowing to foreign despots and making economy and living conditions worse instead of better.Did I miss anything?

  • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

    will eventually bankrupt the health insurance companies (or drive their rates up so high that no one will be able to afford insurance), at which point 0′care becomes a single-payer, government healthcare plan, swallowing all the medicare recipients as well, since 0′care will suck medicare dry.

    Single-payer is what 0 wanted anyway, and what better way of getting it than bulldozing every private sector enterprise that stands in its way?

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    None of them are even poor reasons to consider her as a viable Presidential candidate.

    I’m not opposed to her, but your list is good for a neighbor and a knockout for a candidate.

  • flannery

    While Bachmann has not been proded to the extent that a Republican challenging BO, she has received more media/progressive examination and tricks than the average member of Congress. Nancy Pelosi and the House Democrat Campaign Committee identified Bachmann as a number one target in the past campaign cycles. In addition, the Twin Cities media has been extremely partisan and unfavorable to Bachmann’s candidacy. Lots of adverse media attention which resembled that given Palin “she’s dumb, an embarrassment, unrepresentive of Minnesota’s political traditions (ie. Hubert Humphrey and Gene McCarthy)”. While major supportive puff pieces about her opponents were promulgated everyday.

    Bachmann has faced the full wrath of the national democrats, she has faced the full examination of a hostile press and she has not only survived, she has prospered. If there were skeletons in her closet, Pelosi’s crew would have found them. I do not see the truth about her past to be a problem if she receives tha nomination.

  • Menlo

    First I would point out that the health insurance companies were on board with it from the start. They helped write “Obamacare” and are quite pleased; that’s not going to change. They do not run from government regulation and control because they are the ones who drive it!

    Second, health insurance companies do not “go out of business;” they only consolidate. They just about have a monopoly in some areas. To that end, de facto single-payer is not a stretch if it can still exist under the Blue Cross Blue Shield name and corporate structure. That’s been about the size of it for some time now.

  • lineholder

    she might have re: business as well, Jim. I’m curious on that point about any potential candidate at this point.

    That’s probably due to my belief that our best hope of getting out of this economic hole our nation is in lies in the private sector realm of business and free-market enterprise.

  • krutnewm

    looks like 5 years as a tax litigation attorney before the MN state senate and then the House of Rep since 2006. not as impressive as a professor in law or a community organizer granted, but pretty good indeed. :)

  • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

    companies would “go out of business.” What I DID say was that 0′care would “bankrupt” them. Not quite the same thing. While I will be the first to join you in claiming that the insurance companies wrote part of 0′care, they did not write all of it. If they had, the “fine” or “opt out” price would be higher than the cost of buying insurance. The ability of the average American to pay a fine and not have insurance, combined with his being able to buy insurance with pre-existing conditions is what will drive up the cost of insurance, and eventually bankrupt the companies–at which point they will be assimilated (along with clients and assets) into the single-payer system.

    If we do not beat this law, either through repeal or SCOTUS strikedown, it WILL become a single-payer system within a generation on the outside (more likely a decade).

    Welcome to the Borg Collective.

  • garyaz1

    I though Monday nights performance was her best in history. She actually stayed on the ?fact? wagon for 2 hrs. Now she goes off the reservation again.

    1) Dollar down 14%? Yes back to its 2007 low. From 2001 to 2007 it lost 40%.
    2) Mediscare: Bankrupt no, cut 500 bil no, they located 500 bil in savings. Cutting the insurance industry out of Medicare Advantage is one third of that 500 just as a for instance. There are no cuts in benefits. The benefits are going up and the ?doughnut hole? closing.
    3) 42 cents? If it was not for the 800 bil tax bill House GOP forced at Christmas it would only be 35 cents. When it expires in 2013 it goes to 23 cents.

    Its distortion like this that get primary season crowds yelling. But they are coffin nails when the general election starts. Gingrich on the other hand said many clever things looking to the general election Monday night. He is thinking a few steps ahead of the others. Look for Newt?s numbers to go up slowly as he appeals more to the objective parts of the base that always regarded him as ?the thinker? of the party. Even if it costs Newt the primary he is trying to make sure the Ryan plan does not kill GOP chances

  • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

    My current leanings are toward Herman Cain (or Rick Perry, if he decides to join the growing list of GOP candidates). That does not preclude me from having great admiration for Bachmann, and yes, I would love to have neighbors like her.

    Her professional career has been primarily government service (tax attorney representing the IRS, Minnesota legislature, US House of Representatives), but so has been the case for many past presidents.

    Then there is Ronald Reagan: actor turned spokesman turned politician. Except for CA Governor, his leadership resume was rather thin.

    Much depends on what you are personally looking for in a candidate. I voted for Reagan twice and have never regretted my choice in doing so. While I would have no objection to a President Bachmann, I seriously doubt she has the appeal that she would need among independent voters, but she can sure keep the lefties teetering on the brink of insanity and tie up all their “GOP bashing” time while a viable GOP candidate makes the necessary inroads with the moderate voters. And the more lefties she can put in rubber rooms, all the better.

  • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull
  • Jim Tomasik

    I just don’t know what to say to that.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    Reagan managed one of the top five economies in the world for eight years.

    Actually, the best resume around is TPaw. He actually made government smaller in MN and he did it with a Dem controlled House and Senate for the most part.

    I like Cain, but I’m not sure his private experience translates well into POTUS. I know Romney’s doesn’t. And his tenure as Governor of MA is a pathetic example of conservatism. All he did was make Democratic programs more affordable.

    We’ll have to see about Bachman and Cain. They are certainly crowd pleasers, but then again so was Obama.

  • garyaz1

    Did you miss Obama debate the entire House GOP caucus last spring? 1 guy vs. 180 and it wan not even a contest. Is Obama that smart or the House Republicans that dumb? I dont know but the Republicans should have brought Ben Stein along.

  • Jim Tomasik

    The reason I asked was because I was talking to my employer about the debate. She commented on the EPA. He went bannanas over her answer. So we started talking about all their resumes’.

    If defeating Obama is the only goal, any of them should do the trick. I’m hoping for so much more. The fact that Rep Steve King supports her is a plus with me but, at this time, I think she cant hold a candle to Cain’s resume.

  • garyaz1

    It was their alternative to Obama’s public option plan. Of the 197 amendments of the plan Senate Republicans in early 2009 wrote 161 of those amendments (80%).

    When senate leader Mitch McConnell was questioned about this he replied “only 30 were of substance and the rest technical”

    When John McCain talked Joe Lieberman into switching to Republican plan in November 2009 it started to advance.

  • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

    TPaw hasn’t lit me on fire yet, but, like I said, I am only “leaning” at this point in time. I am willing to listen to all candidates (yes, even Ron Paul). One will hopefully be able to light the fire and get me on board (like none could in 2008, that’s why I supported Fred Thompson in the primary, then held my nose and voted for JMac).

  • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull
  • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth
  • gekster

    The Republicans were shut out of the negotiations.
    Just here to throw bombs, arn’t ya.

  • gracie

    Watch not only their debates but also their interviews like on Fox News Sunday. He is a great guy but his plan to consult with the generals is getting old. She didn’t stutter over her answer on Libya.

  • ohiohistorian

    I suspect that he believes this because Obama claims it is patterned after RomneyCare in MA, which was a brain child of that Republican. However, there is much more evidence that ObamaCare (in the Senate) was written by the staff of Max Baucus and was presented by the Democratic leadership over the Republican leadership’s objection.

    My comment is “nice try, but no cigar”.

  • gekster
  • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

    …given you comments below, which also show you to be quite skilled in the field of information obfuscation.

  • Menlo

    If consolidating into one insurance company under existing regulations makes it “single-payer,” then I guess so.

    Most people are and will continue to be insured by their employer. Most of the rest, regardless of health, are going to choose to enroll, even if it is more expensive. The few who don’t will not be nearly enough alone to bankrupt them. What’s going to hurt them is simply the rising costs of health care and the greater need for it. I suspect we’ll see different effects in different states though.

    Neither Congress nor the court is going to end up doing away with it, nor is Congress going to enact single-payer, certainly not in a decade. Some states may choose to go that way though, and Vermont is on track to be number one.

  • Bill S

    The Leftists pimp for Obama. Not us. Now you may not be an “us”, so you’re on the watch list.

  • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

    Excerpted from The octopus’ defense mechanisms :

    The most unique defense mechanism an octopus has is called ink sacs. The octopus ejects a thick black cloud of ink which dulls the sense of smell of most large predators such as sharks. The ink also clouds the water so the octopus can escape without being seen.

  • JSobieski

    That is what every forecast shows, including folks who have every reason to cozy up to Obama.

    You understimate the impact of Obamacare on small businesses. Particularly employers with less than 100 employees. The $2k fine doesn’t apply for the first 50 employees, so the incremental savings of dropping everyone are significant.

  • Menlo
  • JSobieski

    increased government involvement in the healthcare industry will be more expensive than what people think.

    Name one ongoing government program that has been cheaper than expected? Medicaid, Medicare, and SS have all been far more expensive than originally anticipated.

    There is no reason to believe that Obamacare will be an exception to this rule. Conservatives understand that the economy is dynamic. Change begets change.

  • zbig

    (I meant to white this out, but it seems I erased it… O well…)

  • JSobieski

    Almost half of hte country pays no income tax.

    Republican’s are against tax increases across the board.

    The fact that the Republicans resist tax increases on the rich is NOT equivalent to taking money away from the middle class.

    Money is earned by the people who earn it. My reluctance to increase Bill Gates taxes is not the same thing as the government taking money from me to give to anyone. Bill Gates did not get rich on the backs of the poor—the poor had no money in the first place. Henry Ford got rich by creating a lot of middle class households and by providing a product that people wanted at a cost below that which they were willing to pay.

    Only a socialist would say the things you say. Middle class jobs are created when people become rich. Henry Ford created a lot of middle class jobs by becoming one of the richest men on the planet. So did Bill Gates.

    How many middle class jobs are created by Obama’s anti-business policies?

    How many poor or middle class people create jobs? To create a job that pays a salary of $50k + benefits it costs roughly $70k. Who do you think creates jobs? It requires accumulated capital to pay a salary. Fight the accumulation of capital, and you are working against the creation of jobs.

    No campfire unless there is wood to burn. Remove the wood, and there is no campfire.

  • gekster

    <———–

    Somehow you made a right turn and wound up here.

    (they seam to be coming out of the woodwork, starting with bluewhale last night.)

  • JSobieski

    Obama’s only comeback to good Republican arguments was “we won the election” (something he stopped saying after 2010).

    Now Obama doesn’t even engage in the world of ideas.

    Your savior is an empty suit who needs a teleprompter to give a speech that resembles watching a tennis match.

    Ben Stein with a headache is smarter than Obama on his best day.

  • Bill S

    Surely you didn’t think we’d let you spew here.

  • chieftain

    Screen Actor’s Guild, I believe. More importantly he was Governor of California, a state bigger than most countries.
    I, too, like Rep. Bachman, a lot. I am glad that she is in the race. She will be a good VP. If she did get the nomination she will clobber Obama. The mushy moderate women will vote for conservative Bachman over yesterday’s news Obama.

  • Menlo

    Of course the costs to all are going to go up more than expected. That doesn’t change my belief that most people will be covered by employer plans, even if more of the cost is shifted to the employees (which I think will happen).

    There is no increased involvement in the “healthcare industry” directly though they are distorting the payment mechanism in a way that will have uncertain consequences for the healthcare industry.

    Unlike the programs cited, the federal government won’t be administering any new program. It will still be considered “private insurance” sold by a “private” corporation. It’s just going to cost more to cover new federal mandates. The costs of health insurance will skyrocket with or without “Obamacare;” they just go up faster now.

  • acat
  • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

    I completely forgot about SAG.

    Back to the subject at hand: I was talking with my liberal buddy about Michele Bachmann earlier today. I loved his comment (and I quote):

    “Normally, I would say ‘Please run Michele Bachmann for president,’ but I remember saying that about Ronald Reagan back in 1980, and I’m not going to make that mistake again.”

  • lineholder

    particularly given what we’re up against economically. Under what we might consider to be “normal” circumstances, taking the scope of private sector business a candidate might have into consideration really wouldn’t be an issue. But because our deficit is so high and the private sector of our economy is so stagnant, it is an issue.

    We needs someone who understands enough about how the private sector works to unleash the massive amount of potential this sector of our economy truly has. That’s what will have the greatest impact in generating the tax revenues to reduce our deficit as quickly as possible.

    A candidate who has private sector business experience is more likely to understand how governmental regulations impede business, what it takes to succeed within a budget, how to streamline operations effectively, and even how to apply nontraditional methods to generate greater value for the dollar for both investors and consumers (and in specific cases, we the taxpayers are both investors and consumers).

    We do have a vested interest in the outcome from beginning to end. And yes, the realm of private sector knowledge and experience does matter in this context.

    On that basis, Jim, I like what Cain has to offer, too. I see his experience in a positive light, outweighing other things that we are accustomed to expect from traditional politicians.

  • JSobieski

    Running a branch of government is very different from running a state, county, or other governmental unit.

    Government units are monopolies. Businesses are not.

    No company CEO has to deal with a legislature, much less a legislature controlled by another party.

    Government is divided on purpose. No business would ever survive being divided in an analogous way.

    Business experience is helpful. But does it make up for the lack of experience as a governor?

  • acat

    I have to assume, though, that as an entrepreneur, he’s dealt with them before..

    The D.C. Dems are going to be out for blood unless we nominate a squishie…. I’m concerned that Herman is going to get blindsided a few times before he gets his bearings.

    There appears to be less risk of that by nominating a governor, especially one from a state with some rancor in thier process… either Minnesota, where the Dems have long been in charge, or Texas, where rancor comes with the sagebrush.

    Mew

  • JSobieski

    He held together hopes for American independence by his actions and character.

    Resume doesn’t mean a bunch of backs that one has scratched. It means a record of accomplishment. It means seeing how someone has performed in challenging environments.

    Do you want your heart surgeon to have ANY experience with heart surgery? Or is talking a good game enough for you?

  • JSobieski

    He held together hopes for American independence by his actions and character.

    Resume doesn’t mean a bunch of backs that one has scratched. It means a record of accomplishment. It means seeing how someone has performed in challenging environments.

    Do you want your heart surgeon to have ANY experience with heart surgery? Or is talking a good game enough for you?

  • acat

    Both toppled a regime and took control of a country.

    One gave control to the citizens.

    Very oversimplified, I know, but .. your point is well taken, J.

    Mew

  • acat

    And then they go out of business… dropping their clients into Obamacare.

    Then, we’re single-payer, and the haves will have private doctors.

    Mew

  • JSobieski

    I know that there is a lot of frustration out there with politicians who let us down. However, the response to that frustration should not be to merely support the person who talks the best game without any corresponding record of accomplishment. Such a path is a recipe for future disappointment.

    The Presidency is a big job with a lot of scrutiny and a lot of adversaries. I would like to see people who downplay the value of experience to deal only with inexperienced people in other aspects of life. Need a doctor, get a fresh med school grad. Need a lawyer, find someone who just passed the bar. Looking for someone to build a house? Find someone who has never done it before.

    Unfortunately, there is no job that can really prepare someone for being President. However, certain jobs are nonetheless better than others.

    Casting votes is easy when there are 99 or 434 other votes. Talking is easy when what you say doesn’t impact the outcome.

    The Presidency is unique. If you think our governors are a disappointment, just wait until you put a legislator in the White House and see how happy you are 12 months later.

  • lineholder

    That’s as honest as I can be in my answer at this point, and part of that has to do with the fact that I’ve gotten to the point where my own level of distrust for politicians in general is really high.

    Politicians aren’t stupid. Most of them are extremely intelligent. In all likelihood they’ve known for years that we were headed toward this type of economic crisis. They could have taken the initiative long ago to make wiser fiscal decisions, and they didn’t do it. They mishandled public funds in a truly disgraceful manner. They probably wouldn’t be taking any initiative to do differently now if we the people hadn’t become so outspoken in letting them know where we stand.

    And it was all because of the inherent nature of politics, of constantly playing the game toward their own or their party’s political advantage rather than being genuinely responsible towards the people and the nation they pledged to serve.

    Because of all that, I’m jaded when it comes to my outlook on politicians. Even Governors.

  • JSobieski

    The extra burdens on insurance companies and employers consitute “increased involvement” for the people responsible for managing those obligations. As bad as the employer-based system will be, the exchanges will be even worse for the individual insurance pools.

    Government regulations are enforced by . . the government. The fact that government will not be directly responsible for the costs just makes it that much more likely that the cost of insurance will go up, since the bureaucrats will not be deterred by price.

    A sensible alternative to control costs would be to actually allow markets to replace the top-down systems of medicare and medicaid. Indiana has had a lot of success with medicaid reform and HSA accounts. That is the only approach proven to actually slow down cost increases.

    If you don’t think increased regulations is a form of increased involvement, you might want to recondiser.

    If you think that government rules on third parties won’t speed up cost increases, you might want to look at history.

    I get the fact that you don’t like insurance companies. However, you will miss them when they are gone.

  • JSobieski

    Much of government relates to economics, and most politicians were political science majors without a basic understanding of economics.

    I agree that governors are almost always compromised, but that is in fact my point. Executive positions will expose who the person really is. Executives face no win scenarios (just as Ike had no win scenarios in WWII).

    No President is going to be able to operate in a clearly ideological way 100% of the time. Some compromise, or bobbing and weaving, is inevitable.

    Better to see how they navigate those challenges in advance of giving someone keys to the White House.

    You will know far more about a former governor’s propensity to “play the game” then you will someone without that experience.

  • lineholder

    to gather data before developing a plan of action. And that is what Cain is referring to when he says “consult with generals”…gathering data.

  • lineholder

    If this comment, “most politicians were political science majors without a basic understanding of economics”, is genuinely true, then wouldn’t our nation be better off, especially in light of what we are up against economically, having more people at top levels of government in leadership positions who DO understand economics, especially on the private sector side of it, with practical experience they can draw from on which to base policy decisions that could turn our economy around?

    Realistically though, I don’t buy it that politicians are so devoid of any knowledge regarding economics that they don’t understand enough about how our economy works to recognize when their spending habits put us in danger. Economic majors they may not be, but totally illiterate on the subject of economics? No. They knew, JSob.

  • Menlo
  • JSobieski

    A BCBS can’t merge with anyone, and they are having their requests for premium increases denied.

    Weak companies don’t merge with other weak companies.

    You are parroting the notion about a losing on each item, but making up for it in volume.

    Insurance companies will get out of lines of business that are no longer profitable (see flood insurance).

    Chrysler didn’t merge with Fiat until Uncle Sam covered a big chunk of Chrysler’s liabilities.

    No health company will want to merge with a weak company. The only exception to that rule is if the weak company has some asset (think Skype) that the larger company wants (think Microsoft).

    You are not thinking like a business person on this.

  • JSobieski

    I agree on both counts.

    However, that does not mean that attributes B and C are irrelevant, or that attribute A is more valuable than other attributes.

    I am in favor of attribute A, but not at the expense of other attributes.

    Put in more conversational language, business experience is helpful but it doesn’t make up for other deficiencies.

    I am not a Romney fan, but I know that most of his supporters value his business experience more than his time as governor. He is a good example of the point I am making. Nothing about Romney as a business person was RINO-like. However, as governor, the record tells a different story.

    Imagine that Romney had never been governor. He would very much appear like Herman Cain because he would not have the warts that he has now.

    We don’t know what warts Herman Cain would have because Cain never actually took the reins over a state government.

  • JSobieski

    I agree on both counts.

    However, that does not mean that attributes B and C are irrelevant, or that attribute A is more valuable than other attributes.

    I am in favor of attribute A, but not at the expense of other attributes.

    Put in more conversational language, business experience is helpful but it doesn’t make up for other deficiencies.

    I am not a Romney fan, but I know that most of his supporters value his business experience more than his time as governor. He is a good example of the point I am making. Nothing about Romney as a business person was RINO-like. However, as governor, the record tells a different story.

    Imagine that Romney had never been governor. He would very much appear like Herman Cain because he would not have the warts that he has now.

    We don’t know what warts Herman Cain would have because Cain never actually took the reins over a state government.

  • Menlo

    It is a direct involvement in the insurance companies, not on health care itself. As I stated, it is an indirect involvement in health care because it distorts the means by which most people pay for it. The increased involvement in health insurance is going to make coverage extremely costly.

    I also said, repeatedly, that costs WILL go up (for both insurance and health care itself) AND that “Obamacare” will make them go up faster than they otherwise would! I don’t think anyone is reading!

  • Menlo

    They will likely get a lot of new business, including many people who do not use the insurance much if at all. I do believe almost everyone will follow the “mandate,” even if it puts a strain on their budgets, particularly with the taxpayer subsidies. People and employers are going to pay more for coverage, particularly those who do not already pay substantial amounts.

  • JSobieski

    Government regulated private insurance out of that market.

    Even the BCBS’s of the world are already having their requests for premium increases denied (see BCBS of Mass—son of Romneycare). Companies will NOT be allowed to pass through costs to consumers, and companies are being regulated as to much they can keep in cash reserves to pay for claims in future years.

    All of the data to date suggests you are wrong, but the facts will play themselves out.

    If you are right, you should buy stock in this area. I will take a short on your positions.

  • JSobieski

    He who has the gold makes the rule.

    Well, in this case, he who regulates the payor literally makes the rule.

    The key word is neither “direct” nor “indirect”. To the contrary, the most important word is “increased” as a modifier of “involvement”.

    Does someone launching an ICBM make direct contact with the enemy? No. But the impact is undeniable.

  • lineholder

    BTW, I’m enjoying this discussion, so thanks. I’m not a Romney fan either at this point. Moving on, let’s take a look at points B and C.

    I’m guessing point B is the lack of governing experience. And your point regarding Cain’s lack of experience is valid. It’s part of the reason that I’ve believed that if Cain was to win this, it would have to be as a populist-type candidate because he doesn’t have a record on which to substantiate how he would govern.

    As to point C, let’s say that this relates to experience within the realm of politics.

    What I know about the realm of politics is that by its very nature, politicians become acclimated to the mentality of putting politics first. They live in this kind of environment day in and day out. It’s very much so ingrained into their minds to think this way. But there have been too many times of late when politicians put politics ahead of what is right, ahead of you, me, our families, our fellow citizens, and even our nation, all because it is politically advantageous to them or their party to do so. And there is a very real cause-and-effect pattern that exists between their line of thought and the crisis that our nation is facing now. This is a habit in how politicians think, JSob, and it narrows their vision to the point that they don’t normally look beyond the scope of the political.

    Cain is an outsider, which leaves a lot of questions about how he would do in the realm of politics, and I have questions on that issue myself. But because he is an outsider, he hasn’t become acclimated to the mindset of putting politics first. He isn’t bound to this as a pattern in how he thinks. This allows his scope of vision to be more objective and broader than we are accustomed to getting from politicians in general.

    Combine that with his business experience, and he could offer a much broader range of options to the problems that our nation is facing than any one who has lived day in and day out in the realm of politics would even remotely begin to consider.

  • JSobieski

    8 years of service as governor of the country’s largest and dynamic state (at that time it was the economic engine for the US) was the best possible resume one could have. It was an opportunity to see how/if Reagan put his ideas to work.

  • acat

    I talked to my homeowners carrier about adding flood insurance and was told “We’ll do the paperwork, but FEMA will be your carrier. Nobody else does flood insurance in the U.S.”…

    Apparently, most citizens don’t realize this, just like they don’t realize why no other rail companies offer passenger service that’d compete with AMTRAK…

    The minute the Fed get their grubby bureaucratic tentacles around a business model, it’s over for the private sector. We simply can’t compete.

    The oft-cited “UPS/FedEx do just fine” canard is easily disproven – because UPS and FedEx are able to command 10 times what the postal service charges because businesses like options like insurance and tracking… and on-time delivery. Saves them money in the long run if they can tell Mr. Smith that his package is en route, last check-in was as it was loaded onto a truck in Missoula.

    Mew

  • acat

    Had to go poking around some to find it but .. Anyone remember Jim Wright’s amendment that restricted air travel at Dallas’s Love Field and Houston’s Hobby Airport to planes “carrying no more than 56 passengers” ?

    “We can’t get Dallas and Houston citizens to use the new airports we built *on the taxpayer’s dime*, so we’ll just legislate the old ones into oblivion” …

    Sooner or later, it’ll be “We can’t get patients to use this new Obamacare insurance coverage, so we’ll just legislate the old companies into bankrupcy”…

    Mew

  • jaykali

    Democrats definitely don’t want to break Medicare (but they are doing nothing to preserve it). It’s already single payer. What they’d like to do is I suppose have a de-facto government ‘public’ option that they could force people onto eventually. These ‘exchanges’ would be how they do this. They force companies to offer a bureaucrat-approved plan to get in on the exchanges and they use subsidies to help get a bunch of people on these plans. If they can regulate health insurance companies like they do utility companies, then the govt has de-factor gov’t insurance. I am not sure this will work or not. The subsidies piece of this will be the hardest thing to repeal once Ocare begins in 2014. That’s the only real piece that looks like an entitlement. The feds only partially pay for medicaid expansion so I don’t see any issue with being able to dismantle big chunks of Obamacare over time. States won’t be able to sustain a large expansion of medicaid patients, plus they cut reimbursements so it won’t be politically unpopular to repeal. The individual mandate will be eliminated and so the most worrisome piece will be health care subsidies. I feel fairly optimistic we will win the white house in 2012 which is absolutely necessary and even the senate but not a supermajority in the senate. so that means you need 5-6 democratic votes to pass any type of repeal bills. So an outright repeal (alone) won’t pass. They are going to have to dismantle it and do some horsetrading to undo the entitlement. I picture some grand compromise with democratic moderates to get a ‘replacement’ bill done.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    When Bill Clinton, who persuaded the last Dem votes needed to pass it, admits that we are devouring the economy with healthcare post-ObamaCare he admits the failure of him and Obama’s bill.

    http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2011/05/31/bill-clinton-throws-obamacare-he-helped-pass-under-the-bus/

  • gpclaw

    Once Medicare ‘breaks’, then the left will rush in, vowing to replace it with something even ‘better’. The left wants to one program to rule them all. It would be easier for them to expand ObamaCare to include seniors, than to expand Medicare.

    Obama doesn’t want single payer, at least, not in the way we typically think of single payer as represented by the UK model. ObamaCare looks much more like the French model of universal healthcare, which includes both public, and private elements in the plan. This shouldn’t be that surprising, because the French also resisted a move to UK style healthcare.

    Let me know when this begins to sound familiar. Under the French plan, citizens are required to pay a share of their income into a health fund. Which fund they pay into is based on which industry a person works in. This fund provides a basic level of coverage, and is heavily regulated. The government fixes prices, by dictating how much doctors, also private, how much they can charge for procedures.

    In addition to their basic health care funds, most French citizens also purchase private health insurance to cover procedures not covered in through their basic coverage. This also allows them more choice when it comes to doctors, and even allows for private hospital rooms.

  • Menlo

    Health insurance has already been regulated into a near monopoly in many areas. I do think the situation will vary greatly from state to state, and it will be up to the legislatures to sort out the mess that “Obamacare” leaves, be it through single-payer systems or whatever else. It’s difficult to see them doing much in most states given the political divide. Similarly, I feel quite confident that Congress is not going to pass any major health “reform” legislation for a very long time.

  • acat
  • Menlo

    Sometimes, the government will break it up or otherwise liberalize or deregulate the market. Given the political divide though, I don’t anticipate the federal government or most states to do much of anything for a while. If things do collapse on their own, I suspect a lot of people would suffer for a few years unless Congress comes in with a bailout for the insurance companies, which to me seems much more realistic.

  • jaykali

    Bankrupting a single payer would be counter-productive. They don’t want to break Medicare. If anything they want to bankrupt or strangle private insurance companies to allow them to swoop in. But they aren’t going to break Medicare to bring in an ‘awesomer’ version – if anything once Medicare does break you will see more privatization as the only alternative to huge tax increases and benefit cuts. That’s the only way you ever get to privatization of these entitlements, is when they go broke. I just think it is a mis-characterization to say Democrats want to break Medicare or Social Security, they know that to stay politically viable in the short-run that being ‘protectors’ of entitlements will help them win elections. Now it’s short sided, bc basically they’re going to go bankrupt sooner or later as there sadly is no free lunch. But politicians don’t think 20 yrs down the road, they know in the here and now that demagoguing entitlement reform will give them a fighting chance in an election. It’s that simple.

  • aesthete

    is that at some point, the outsider will become a politician. I would rather see him do so in a controlled environment where the damage he can do is limited (and where I can see what kind of politician he is), than prop him up and watch him become a politician when he arrives.

    It’s often been said that our states are laboratories of democracy, and that’s true both for specific policies and politicians: in the case of pols, it shows us their true nature in office before we cart them off to the White House. Cain seems like a great guy, and I respect his background in business, the Kansas Fed, and his math degree, all of which tell me that he is an extremely intelligent and ambitious man who has had loads of experience with business and economics, and has thought about both from a real-world and theoretical standpoint.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: he’s as close as we’re ever going to get to T Sowell or W Williams running for President. However, it is worth noting that neither T Sowell nor W Williams has run for higher office, even though Sowell seriously considered running for a CA Senate seat: Sowell’s reasoning was that he knew the public choice economics, and didn’t want to see his grandkids see him become the kind of person that public office transforms people into. Would Cain become that type of person? I don’t know, and neither do you unless we see him in action in some other executive office.

    That’s one reason why I like Gary Johnson and Mitch Daniels, and why I think it’s unfortunate that neither will be President come 2012: both have proven themselves in office, and have tackled long-standing issues with debt while in office successfully.

  • aesthete

    It is certainly accurate to say that some insurance companies were at the table with the other interests that wrote the bill, and that some of the provisos of the bill were tailor-made to benefit them, but others? Not so much. Those that did generally have the inside track, and it appears that they have restructured accordingly. The others are playing it by ear. It is more than possible that “the insurance companies” as an aggregate will lose money, but that the favored companies will profit from the bill. It is equally likely that all insurance companies will take a hit, but that the favored companies will take a substantially smaller hit, leaving them with a larger market share and a large consumer base (something of a “loss leader” strategy). The scenario described by JSob is not at all in-congruent with the notion that the bill was prone to pervasive rent-seeking.

  • lineholder

    because I’d already considered this from the viewpoint of both corruption and cronyism. These are two elements of modern day politics that are like a deadly cancer, eroding away at those who enter politics over time until they end up morphing into a nearly/totally conscienceless human being. Those who are weak in character and conscience are the quickest to sink into this quagmire of corruption. Those who are stronger in character last longer.

    What’s ironic about it is that even when they do begin to develop behavioral patterns that should alerts us as voters to the reality that corruption is taking its toll, we often re-elect them into office. Usually for two reasons…name recognition and experience. That point is genuinely ironic, isn’t it? And no one else’s fault but our own, I might add.

    As to how an outsider would respond to that environment day after day…you’re right, we have no way of knowing for certain. All we can know is that they haven’t been acclimated to it or inundated by that mentality of corruption, because they are the outsider.

    I’ve got questions galore about it, aesthete, but I’ve come to one solid conclusion. We better hope and pray that something occurs soon that bring about changes to the nature of politics in our country, because if it doesn’t, the things that those of us living in the present genuinely love and respect about this nation will ultimately be lost.

  • aesthete

    For myself, I really wish that we’d gotten ahold of the Republican party and given it a good (internal) thrashing during the Bush years. In part the dearth of good conservative governors can be attributed to the complete lack of concern for government scope during that time. In the meantime, I understand why people would be willing to take the gamble, and I have nothing bad to say about Cain. I’m just not at that point, and won’t be until the only Govs available to us are demonstrably terrible a la Romney.