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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Hold Fast In the Face of Fear

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  July 23rd, 2011 at 08:40 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

“The only reason this is a crisis and the only reason they now want a last minute deal is because while House Republicans were working to save the country Democrats were busy scoring cheap political points.”

I’ve gotten lots of calls about compromise this weekend. Senators have called. Congressmen have called. Staffers have called.

I try not to be too committal on these calls because I like to have a bit of time to think.

Here’s my response: don’t compromise. I’ve thought about it. I don’t think you can get any compromise worth supporting because like an alcohol refusing to admit he has a drinking problem, Washington politicians are refusing to admit they have a spending problem. When they cut spending, they do it dishonestly — through accounting tricks and cuts to growth rates, not actual cuts. We can’t send Congress to rehab. We cannot allow yet another Washington deal.

We sent you there to end Obamacare and cut Washington spending. Don’t fail on both fronts, please.

In Washington, reporters and good government types lament all the time that “compromise is a dirty word these days.”

You’re damn right it is. We’ve compromised our way to $14 trillion in national debt and we’re looking at another $2 trillion in national debt. As Jim DeMint noted on twitter, “We’ve already had 17 commissions over 3 decades and $13 trillion in new debt. No more commissions.”

And John Boehner, if you’ve paid attention in the past twenty-four hours, has taken to wearing Depends he’s so freaking scared. Tonight he is offering up a modified version of Mitch McConnell and Harry Reid’s plan, saying it is faithful to Cut, Cap, and Balance, but they want to back door in unstoppable tax increases and most of the spending will just be accounting gimmicks.

Fear has no business entering into your negotiations. You guys calling me looking for alternatives and fallbacks, there is no fallback. There is no alternative. Hold the freaking line.

It’s not just a statement. It is a real and legitimate policy.

See, what you are forgetting is that you have done all the work and the Democrats have done none of the work. This is the ants versus the grasshoppers. While you’ve been diligent passing Paul Ryan and Cut, Cap, and Balance, the Democrats have been out accusing you of killing Grandma instead of coming up with their own plan.

And now they, and your own cowardly leadership, wants you to compromise with the guys who’ve been bashing your face in instead of offering up their own ideas.

Don’t do it. Don’t give in. Forget about the doom and gloom. You have done what they asked. You came up with a plan. You took personal and political hits. The only reason this is a crisis and the only reason they now want a last minute deal is because while House Republicans were working to save the country Democrats were busy scoring cheap political points.

And now after all that, they want you to throw it all away.

If you compromise now, you and I both know the debt will keep going up. You and I both know they will decide to escalate the attacks on you as a tool to force capitulation. If you compromise, you will be doing what Washington always does. And what Washington always does has gotten us where we are.

Hold the freaking line. Seriously. It’s not just a cute line. You’ve done your bit for God and Country while they’ve crapped on you. So now they either take what you’ve offered or they starve. This is a fight worth having.

Any sane person who watched the President on Friday has got to realize this guy knows you have the upper hand. Now go force the issue.

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COMMENTS

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  • banzaibob

    If you give in now they will always threaten to cut off checks to grandma and the disabled vet. If this happens you might as well stay home because you will give in everytime when they want something. This week Rush gave examples of the fear mongering as far back as LBJ.

    Stand tall and your conservative base will stand with you. If you fear losing office, let it be for doing the right thing instead of doing the wrong thing. Our Republic and future generations depend on it.

  • rowdydfw

    Hold the line! We’ve got your back. This is not a game. This is our lives we’re fightng for. This agenda has to stop. Remember November! It didn’t happen by accident!

  • averagevoterdotcom

    keep in mind that this game of chicken assumes obama sanity.
    I say at most put the potus fraud on a short leash.

  • averagevoterdotcom

    then won’t he simply then act like it was his plan all along going into 2012? He did this before last year.
    I say, keep our focus on the next strategic move – big gains in 2012 elections.

  • standingonthewall

    Thank you, Erick. It is exactly so. Last minute deals made in fear will only bring our worst fears to pass – more debt and more Libs in elective office. Hold the line! (I so much wanted to type that last line in all caps.)

  • kowalski

    Posner at the (Harvard) NYT thinks he can just do it unilaterally a-la FDR.

    He may be able to do it. It’s quite possible that Posner is right and Obama can raise the debt ceiling unilaterally as a matter of “national importance.” I actually think Posner is correct, but I disagree with him about the outcome of Obama doing so.

    Americans can look at the history of debt-limit raising in the past 20 years and if they were honest with each other, they would all seriously have to agree that the ceilings aren’t even the celings anymore: they’re like these exponential growth curves stretching up into infinity. Posner can argue that Obama can do it, but looking at the charts there’s no good reason for him to do it.

    He argued against it as a candidate. I think he was sincere then, don’t you?

    More importantly, while it’s theoretically possible for Obama to raise the debt ceiling and have people from Harvard University support him in doing so, unilaterally, I think it’s a terrible political decision for him to do it that way. Right now, most Americans that I know of are trying their best to argue to themselves how they should *constrain* their budgets, not how to explode them again.

    I looked again at Posner’s arguments and couldn’t find anything of substance there. His attitude is that the President has the authority to do it, he should do it just like FDR, and that the American people will “forgive” him for it. I don’t think they will. Posner has a lot of attitude when it comes to talking with other people’s money. He invokes Habeas Corpus and its suspension under Lincoln as a historical parallel.

    This is a person who teaches at the most esteemed University in this country.

    Raising the debt ceiling is nothing like Lincoln’s suspension of Habeas Corpus except in the eyes of people at the New York Times. I especially get a kick out of how he says: “Throw the country back into a recession.” As though the past year has been a boom time! Must be nice to be at Harvard.

    It’s terrible to see someone as esteemed as Posner sink to this level in an argument: that spending more of American taxpayer dollars, when everyone is awake and watching 24/7 without Congressional approval is somehow equivalent to what Lincoln had to do during the Civil War. These are Harvard professors.

    For reference here is the article. Posner really talks about nothing except Obama’s so-called “authority” to do so, which I think is a constitutional farce – but let him go ahead with it and watch Harvard twist themselves into pretzels.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/22/opinion/22posner.html

    The President’s “Paramount Duty” is to right America’s fiscal ship. It is his duty not just to us but to the world to make sure that on the basis of sound economic data the debt that America carries is sustainable. Posner sits there and tells it like it ain’t, once again.

  • Green_Lantern

    You are right, man. You are not selling us out. You are not selling the country out. You look in the eyes of a person like Harry Reid, who is LIVID that he won’t get more money to spend.

    You know why they want the money. They need that money to buy their votes. It’s not about the good of the country. Never has been. Heck, we have had plenty on our side do the same thing over the years.

    We may very well default or have our rating lowered. Obama could really do that out of spite. While the Democrats in the House and Senate love their power, and their easy lifestyles, Obama is an ideologue at heart. I really do believe that. I think he wants to crush what he believes is an arrogant United States. It’s his upbringing, after all. Upbringing counts for a whole lot.

    Maybe his own people in the House and the Senate will finally kick him to the curb over this. They saw how many of their number got whacked in November 2010. Maybe they got the message. We’ll see really soon.

    DON’T. BACK. DOWN.

  • kowalski

    Nobody sane should want to increase the exponent on this.

    http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Debt-ceiling-chart.png

  • EliTheBean

    This fight is why the GOP holds the House today. If they cave, it will be the end. The end of the GOP, the end of the country, the end of Freedom.

    Hold the line!

  • joecollins

    Please don’t cave. Our nation is desparate. Two thirds of America supports Cut, Cap and Balance. Two thirds. Imagine two thirds of this nation supporting anything!! We support Cut, Cap and Balance!!

    Steer a steady course.

  • willy506

    The path to victory is holding the line.

    We didn’t send you to Washington to give us more of the 0bama agenda. We the people want the 0bama agenda stopped.

    Make 0bama stand out there all by himself. Currying favor with the media and dems is fool’s folly.

  • taxpayer1234

    Thank you!

  • kowalski

    Is what has gotten the Greeks into the situation they’re in. Starting with Onassis in the modern era. And it will be the same way in the United States unless people here refuse to accept it.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    The House needs to hold the line in fear of the American people. If they do not hold the line then they will alienate their conservative base and the American people who overwhelmingly support the CCB plan. They will be seen as cowards and Obama will crow over their political corpse.

    The House needs to hold the line in fear of what will become of the American people and our great nation if we cannot get spending under control.

    I think the debt ceiling is a “You are either with us or against us kind of moment.” Yes, I know that includes Coburn and others with a strong record but they made the decision so don’t blame me. If they cannot stand up now and do what is right to save the country, then I have little compassion for them.

  • msctex

    . . .of our own Government willfully and maliciously denying people their own money is bad enough. But giving in to such a threat, might actually be worse.

    Especially when they are led by a man who has already admitted he is bluffing.

  • willy506

    “We want great men who, when fortune frowns, will not be discouraged.”
    ~Col. Henry Knox

  • dontell

    You should be more afraid of us. Cave and all heck will break lose!

  • runner12

    Do not cave to the fear-mongering. Do not let Boehner blow this by retreating and giving in. Now is the time to stand for what is right. This is what we sent you there for. Please do not disapoint us again with politics as usual.

    Do not cave, we are with you on this. Two-thirds of Americans support CCB.

  • http://www.AmericanThinker.com Hammer2008

    A victory in this is holding the line, no matter how small the cuts are or how short-term the debt limit is raised. Even $1 trillion for $1 trillion, which should extend things into Spring 2012. All Obama wants, as with ObamaCare, is to put off until 2013 the realities of today. Enough is enough.

    Be bold. Those who are will be rewarded come election time, as will those who become “Jello”, the way Speaker Boehner described President Obama. And in time, those “leaders” of the GOP who have shown themselves to care more about their future vice Americas, will be shown the door too (hint: Mitch McConnell).

    Hold
    Hold
    Hold

  • kowalski

    What’s really amazing about Posner is that he believes Republicans will be “privately relieved” if Obama unilaterally raises the debt ceiling. When did his mind in the Midwest get twisted up this badly?

    No Republicans will be “privately relieved” in that circumstance, Eric. Doing so on Obama’s part would be just another indication that neither fiscal prudence nor just plain old financial responsibility are anything attributable to Washington. Obama doing so wouldn’t be a matter of saving the Republic, it would be a matter of putting more nails into its coffin.

    If you really want your man to do that, then by all means….

  • gawken

    When you come to a fork in the road, take it…

    The nation is at a fork in the road..you can’t go in both directions.to Congressional Republicans..pick the one you were given directions for when we sent you to the Hill….

  • conservachic

    Thank you, Erick! This is the same old ‘dance & song’ – everytime the GOP gets it right & is right up to the finish line…they drop the ball, and on purpose it seems. GOP – stay the line!! Either way, you will be blamed. No matter what you do, the Dems will demonize you. But if you stay the line, history will be on your side. If you give in, you’ll continue to carry the blame.

  • fastfission

    I hope all those Senators, Congressmen and staff that called you are reading this post and comments. Please, for once, listen to the people who sent you there. Our country’s future depends on you!

  • Paul Seale

    I would submit that instead of trying to ratchet up rhetoric that we pray for leaders of both sides on this matter.

    There is but one thing I will not compromise on, and thats the Bible and its principles.

    No, I havent gone squishy, but after spending a long time talking to a minister about this and related topics, I got perspective.

    While I agree that we should not give in to tax increases and such. Likewise, it would not be smart to give back (bush era tax rates) what we compromised on in December for extended unemployment benefits, I do not agree that we should fold our arms and stand on the sidelines while the issue blows up.

    However, we are talking about changing the contents of the Bible or doctrine of salvation.

    To treat it as such is over the top.

    Should we accept a terrible deal like TARP? No.

    Should we accept a compromise? Yes.

    Should we remember the lessons of 86 and 91? Absolutely.

    However, accepting no reasonable compromise is akin to policy which is on par with life and death decision, or the equivlancy of treating the measure as scripture. This is not that type of decision.

    I would only add that the Republicans and those who we elected in 2010 DID NOT fail at the healthcare vote.

    If people believe that a Democrat controlled senate would have passed repeal of Obamacare, let alone President Obama signing such a measure, then let me sell you a bridge. It aint happening.

    We must do what is right for the right reasons and be smart about it.

  • Tbone

    the Republican party goodbye.

  • runner12

    I am not sure what the Bible has to do with striking a compromise. If anything, the Bible sides on the side of fiscal responsibility and being honorable with what God has given you.

    CCB honors what we have spent by raising the debt-ceiling. It also sets forth principles to prevents us from spending ourselves into oblivion. If anything it supports the principles in the Bible regarding fiscal matters.

    With regards to it being a lost cause, I would quote Jimmy Stuart in Mr, Smith Goes to Washington when he states that ” sometimes the lost causes are the only ones worth fighting for.”

    I am certainly glad that our Founding Fathers did not give up in fighting for a just cause against insurmountable odds in the American Revolution. Statistically speaking, they had about one chance in a million in obtaining independence given they were fighting against the world super-power at the time. For many, it was their faith that gave them courage.

    It was Edmund Burke, a British philosopher and statesman
    who wisely said that “All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.” Any compromise that does not support CCB is effectually doing nothing to solve the debt problem, thus allowing evil to triumph.

  • derechista76

    Obama was elected because of the market collapse in ’08. Could it be that big gov Wall Street types (of the Jeffrey Immelt, John Corzine, Rham Emanuel variety) caused the run on financial institutions at the opportune time to benefit the Hopey Changey Vote Present (Obvious Leftist to Anyone with a Brain) Dude?

    His antics Fri could have been aimed at this very formidable group to create similar mayhem now. Last time, though, he would have made the request for financial meltdown in secret. Now, he has called for it in a nationally televised speech. This public call for panic may backfire on him politically, though. For, if the markets melt down, many will recall the aforementioned speech, and especially his wretched tone.

    Bonus O Nickname: Hysteria Man in Mom Jeans.

  • lesueur8

    We all would love to “hold the line”, but it will not happen. Our government leaders have broken our system. We have allowed it.

    Mr. Seale, compromise on small things is fine. The compromising should be directly tied to Cut, Cap and Balance, which is the only real idea on the table that has been passed by a legislative body.

    Will we hold the line now? If not now, when?

  • gekster

    when have the Democrats compromised with us since 2006.

  • Spiral

    We have to remember that the voters elected Barack Obama in 2008 for a4 year term.

    Also, they elected a Democrat US Senate Majority in 2006, 2008 and 2010 (although in 2010 the GOP made gains and now holds a larger minority).

    Now, I think the voters made a huge mistake in 2006 when they elected Reid Majority Leader and Nancy Pelosi Speaker of the House.

    In 2006 unemployment was below 6 percent. Yet many Americans bought into the argument that the Bush economy was awful.

    I also think the voters made a mistake giving the Democrats even larger majorities in the US House and US Senate in 2008 and also electing Obama in 2008.

    Because the Democrats won so many US Senate seats in 2006 and 2008, the Democrats were able to maintain control of the US Senate after 2010 despite many GOP gains in the Senate.

    Because Presidents are elected for a 4 year term, Obama is still in the White House. (I think it is likely that if Obama had to stand for reelection in 2010, he would have been defeated, assuming the GOP had provided a decent alternative).

    The bottom line is that we can’t take the attitude that because the GOP won the 2010 elections, the Democrat Senate and President are likely to cave and accept GOP House policies.

    And if Obama and Reid refuse to accept GOP proposals like cut, cap and balance and/or the Ryan budget, we should not argue that this represents a failing of the GOP.

    We have a huge spending problem in the US. A huge debt problem.

    But there is a remedy. It’s called the election of 2012. The GOP can ask the American voters, “Did you get the hope and change you voted for in 2006 and 2008?” and then say, “If not, elect Republicans. We will get the economy moving. We will stop the government spending.”

    Remember. In a representative Republic like ours, power and responsibility go together. We should not assign too much responsibility to the GOP at this point because the voters have not assigned the GOP too much power.

    Yet.

  • 6eorge Jetson

    it will be his decision alone.

    The $14.2 trillion debt ceiling is on the gross Total Public Debt Outstanding, which includes $4.6 trillion of intragovermental offsetting assets and liabilities, above the real ~$9.6 trillion of true legal claims in the Debt Held by the Public (issued to entities outside of the govt which can’t be wiped away with a mere accounting consolidation of offsetting assets and liabilities).

    http://www.redstate.com/georgeclymer28/2011/07/22/august-social-security-payments-will-not-increase-the-debt/#comment-37

    The real economic problem is that we are running up our true $9.6 trillion dollar debt at the rate of $1.6 trillion/year. And how are we to deal with that? The President “promises/proposes” to deal with it with immediate tax increases and “spending cuts” when he can’t name a single specific spending cut.

  • Spiral

    One could view that as a compromise of sorts.

    The Democrats did not pass Obama care in 2007-2008. They waited until they had the US House, the US Senate and the White House.

    That’s smart politics, not to mention “populist” in the sense that it allows policy to be based on the magnitude and depth of election victories.

    Right now, some are demanding that the GOP act as though it controls all levers of power when it only controls 56 percent of the US House, 47 percent of the US Senate and 0 percent of the White House.

    It really doesn’t make sense.

  • Paul Seale

    My point is that we are not discussing Biblical truths or life and death decisions. We are deciding on a budget agreement with serious financial implications if something isnt done – like it or not.

    Earlier this year I pointed that this was the fight we take on. I meant it.

    If we get significant cuts with no tax increases it should be marked as a victory given Democrat controlled Senate and Presidency.

    From there we can take things on the 2012 election and make more serious changes.

    However, to act like this current battle is the equivelence to fighting a revolutionary war, or great theological debate which must be won now is just not right.

    I want to be clear on something.

    The McConnell plan was worse than terrible. Dont support that.

    The Gang of Six deal was fairly slimey and I was greatly troubled by it.

    Boehners plan he mentioned Friday evening sounded decent – and probably was until Democrats in the House and Senate saw it had no tax increases and threw a fit.

    So am I saying we should take a bad compromise? Nope. It would need to be a good deal for the country.

    I am saying that we should be open to compromise instead of treating this fight like some sort of fight over something as sacred as Biblical truths.

    I hope that makes sense.

  • tea4me

    I hope every member of Congress reads that.

  • Paul Seale

    by extending the tax rates while we had to suck it in and pay for extra unemployment.

    Of course now that its nearing election time President Obama and Democrats want to reverse that decision.

    Another example was when Bill Clinton compromised with Republicans on welfare reform back in 1996 (i think it was 96) and a host of issues.

    Of course the nost nefarious is in 86 and 91 when dealing with tax and debt increases.

  • gekster

    If they had not funded the war, it would have been murder at the polls, in an election year, and Bush would not have sighned onto all the spending they wanted.
    The only way for Bush to get the wars funded was to let both houses spend what they wanted, and the Dems and Repubs both knew it.

  • Paul Seale

    Yes, part now.. when after retaking senate and presidency in 2012.. unless of course everyone decides Republicans are whimps and need to 1) go third party 2) primary everyone while Democrats save up money for the general election.

    That said, I agree in theory that it should be tied to CCB – it was passed last week and tabled by Reid.

    However.. if we can get something substanative (reasonable deal in which we get “80% of what we want” – ill take it.

    This is not a zero sum game. It should not be all or nothing.

    Thanks! :)

  • gekster

    and they held the tax cuts hostage to get what they wanted.
    They knew it would not bode well for them to let them exspire.
    No compomise, hastage negotiations.

  • rick554

    NOW we will see who can be trusted in DC!

  • runner12

    We will just have to agree to disagree.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    The GOP House has passed a budget and CCB. The Democrats have done nothing in the hopes of provoking this crisis. You cannot say the GOP has done nothing.

  • Paul Seale

    in 2006 moderate republicans, who were afraid of media and democrat talking points failled to fall in line and vote for an extension/making the tax cuts permanent.

    Do you know of such a block of current Democrats?

    Is there any such pressure on Congress right now?

    I would note that Democrats have not been in any sort of compromising mood since the election of President Obama and Pelosi recieving the gavel and now being the minority leader.

    Still, as my post originally stated, is this deal such that it is the equivilent to holy scripture? I think not.

    As Regan once said, I’d rather get 80% of what I want then run off the cliff with my flag flying high.

  • Paul Seale

    No saracism intended or such, but I want to make sure I am understanding what you are saying.. You believe this fight is on the same level as debating Bibical doctrine and theology and as should be treated as such with no room for “reasonable compromise.”

    It is certainly cool to beable to agree to disagree, I just want to make sure I understand your position completely.

    Thanks! :)

  • gekster

    nt

  • runner12

    rational sense. In 1776, Great Britain was a constitutional monarchy. We were supposedly “represented in the House of Commons, but in reality we were not. Hence the meme ” no taxation without representation.”

    We were not only in the minority, we were not even being represented. Should we have waited till we won a few more seats in the House of Commons? Or better yet, waited until Lord North, the PM, or George III gave us more power?

    Prior to the signing of the Declaration of Independence, we did try multiple ways of compromise to avoid war. But there came a point where they had to draw a line, thus a nation was born. Had our forefathers followed your advice, we would all be a part of the British Commonwealth today.

    Sorry Spiral, we have tried it your way without any ounce of success. Time to draw the line in the sand, time to declare our independence from runaway government spending.

  • Paul Seale

    Absolutely correct. Dont think I said or implied such.

    What I simply said is that there should be room for reasonable compromise as a pose to saying this an all or nothing decision.

    Any compromise should be good and acceptable to the nation – and not an excuse to grow government and raise taxes.

    However, there should be room for compromise.

  • rickdeckard

    Maybe the endgame is, and always was, for Obama to unilaterally raise the limit. Such a move gives him what he and the party wanted all along: a backstop to the dems excessive spending binge, and no accountability until after the election. Whatever the downside risks are for such a bold move, the recent nudges from the “experts” indicate that they see it as manageable. I doubt that Posner and friends have started opining on this topic without some guidance from the war room.

    Geithner’s letter to Boehner last January was nothing less than an admission that the dem leadership predicted this fight. They know what happened in November, and they know that they can’t win this debate with open and honest transparency.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    “… I do not agree that we should fold our arms and stand on the sidelines while the issue blows up.”

    I said that the GOP House cannot be accused of that even if they do nothing else.

  • Paul Seale

    The way the government works is that we have two legislative branches and an executive branch.

    The two legislative branches have to agree on legislation, then it goes to the president for signature or rejection.

    The House of Representatives (what Republicans control) can send as many bills to the Senate as they want. Unless the Senate approves a similar bill (which is then sent to conference and then resent to both chambers) – it never makes it to the desk of the President.

    This is what happened to cut, cap and balance (which is the prefered piece of legislation). It passed the house, but then Harry Reid decread the bill vial (litterally) and then tabled it – essentially killing the bill.

    Similary, the Senate can send as many tax anything that moves bills as it wants, but unless the House passes something it wont get any move ment either.

    Of course President Obama gets a say – so what ever comes out of those two bodies must be agreed on by the President.

    What Spiral is trying to say is that do you what you can now, play for 2012 and get control of all branches and then push what you want.. Just like Democrats did in 2009 (and over played their hand, significantly).

    Spiral is at least strategically right.

    I wish we were a little longer ranged thinking and smarter some times.. Just glad to see people passionate about limited government and hope to see them in droves next year voting President Obama out.

  • runner12

    You did initially, in a way quite frankly that I did not understand (read where I stated that I did not understand what the Bible had to do with striking a compromise).

    My point was (since you brought up the Bible) that while we are not debating Biblical theology, we are in a sense debating Biblical principle. If we go along with a compromise that in fact says one thing and does another, we are supporting a lie and a deception. If past history is any indicator, any “reasonable compromise” will most likely involve accounting tricks and a whole host of lies. Truth is always worth standing for.

    I would also add that I think CCB is a compromise of sorts. I do not believe we are being unreasonable or overly demanding. We are simply standing on
    principle.

    It is also an odd twist of logic to say that just because something is not as important as another, that it is not important to take a stand on it.

  • Paul Seale

    Sorry bud, history does not record the Democrats getting legislation through during 06 or any other recent history just by threatening or taking the country to the brink. Just didnt happened.

    We can agree on any number of relevent policy in this discussion.. but ont hat matter, I am sorry we cannot.

    Nor can I look at someone in the eye if they lose their job because of this whole matter and say “darn it, I held the line for a balanced budget when there was a reasonable deal on table that got me 80% of what i wanted.”

    Sorry, no thank you.

    I will play for a deal that includes not tax hikes and significant cuts then camplaign hard in 2012 for those who will help finish the deal.

  • Paul Seale

    I simply am maintaining that we should leave the line open to reasonable compromise.

    We are not debating items which are to litterally die fore.

    We are debating budget and policy which comes and goes – and there fore is no where on the same level of significance.

    CCB is nothing of a compromise. It is the holy grail of where we need to be.

    Unfortunately there is but one way to pass it, own the Senate and Presidency – even though 75% of the country wants it.

  • Paul Seale

    Is more about right now.. as in do nothing and let the debt limit run out and decide that CCB is passed and that it is all or nothing.. especially given the environment.

  • runner12

    government works. Again please re-read my statement in which. I referred to his/her last paragraph. In it, Spiral asserted that since the GOP had not been assigned all of the power in Congress, than they should not be assigned any responsibility regarding reducing the debt. That is quite odd, given that it is the House who writes the checks.

    My point was that according to his/her logic, because the colonists were under-represented they should have waited until they were a majority before signing the Declaration of Independence. That is all.

    I might also add that the one thing Dems have is fortitude and persistence for their agenda. Even when in the minority, they fight tooth and nail to the death to win the day. It is the only thing that we could use a lesson from them on.

  • runner12

    our principles worth dying for, especially our Founding Fathers. Many others followed their same example.

    I used to be like you, all for compromise and “reasonable” solutions. I detested politics and could not understand why people got so worked up about it. I thought Democrats were a little different from me from a socially conservative standpoint, but all in all loved the country and would never do anything to destroy it or hurt it. The Obama presidency changed all of that.

    Even so, I have been open to compromise. If you look back at my comments, I initially cheered the conpromise Boehner made to avert the government shutdown. Then I found out it was all a lie, a gimmick. I will not fall forvthat trick again. If by some miracle, another solution is found other than CCB, great. But I am bot holding my breath, and neither should you.

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

  • izoneguy

    OLD VERSION

    The ant works
    Hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

    The grasshopper
    Thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

    Come winter, the ant is warm
    And well fed.

    The grasshopper has
    No food or shelter, so he
    Dies out in the cold.

    MORAL OF THE OLD STORY:

    Be responsible for yourself!

    MODERN VERSION

    The ant works hard
    In the withering heat and the rain all summer long, building his house
    And laying up supplies for the winter.

    The grasshopper thinks the ant
    Is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

    Come winter, the shivering grasshopper
    Calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be
    Allowed to be warm and well fed while he is cold and starving.

    CBS, NBC, PBS, CNN,
    And ABC show up to
    Provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper
    Next to a video of the ant
    In his comfortable home with a table filled with food.
    America is stunned by the sharp contrast.

    How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper
    Is allowed to suffer so?

    Kermit the Frog appears
    On Oprah
    With the grasshopper
    And everybody cries when they sing, ‘It’s Not EasyBeing Green…’

    ACORN stages
    A demonstration in front of the ant’s
    House where the news stations film the SEIU group singing, We shall overcome.

    Then Rev. Jeremiah Wright
    Has the group kneel down to pray for the grasshopper’s sake,
    While he damns the ants.

    President Obama condems the ant
    And blames President Bush 43, President Bush 41, President Reagan, Christopher Columbus, and the Pope
    For the grasshopper’s Plight.

    Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid
    Exclaim in an interview with Larry
    King that the ant has
    Gotten rich off the back of the Grasshopper,
    And both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

    Finally, the EEOC drafts
    The Economic Equity &
    Anti-Grasshopper Act
    Retroactive to the beginning of
    The summer.

    The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number
    Of green bugs and,
    Having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes,
    his home is confiscated by the Government Green Czar
    And given to the grasshopper.

    The story ends as we see the grasshopper
    And his free-loading friends finishing up the last bits of the ant’s food while the government house he is in, which, as you recall, just happens to be the ant’s old house, Crumbles around them because the grasshopper doesn’t maintain it.

    The ant has disappeared in the snow, never to be seen again.

    The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident, and the house, now abandoned, is taken Over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the ramshackle, once prosperous and peaceful, neighborhood.

    The entire Nation collapses Bringing the rest
    Of the free world with it.

    MORAL OF THE STORY:

    Don’t give in to Obama and Be careful how you vote in 2012

  • gekster

    just what have the Democrats compromised on since 2006.

  • rightwingmom52

    I agree that if Obama makes this move, he will have underestimated the people. He thinks we non-Harvard types don’t understand the issues or won’t care, but he’s dead wrong. His arrogance will only carry him so far, and this could very well be the straw that breaks the camel’s back.

  • averagevoterdotcom

    and I agree.
    this battle must further 2012 win and gains.

  • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

    Do not compromise on principles, compromise on details and ways to get to where you want to go.

    The principle at stake was stated will by Senator Marco Rubio. We dont have a debt ceiling crisis, we have a debt crisis.

    We have to handle our debt crisis and we need to start now. If the debt ceiling increase DOES take us in the direction of fiscal responsibility, fine.

    OTOH, if it is a phony, weak, spend-more tax-more solution … its not a solution at all. There is no reason to back off Cut Cap and Balance for a bad deal.

  • Paul Seale

    nt

  • Paul Seale

    Yes, there are principles to die for. Freedom and individual liberties. That is what many men and women have sacraficed for this nation in time of war.

    I am sorry, but this debt deal, in my view, does not rise to that level.

    Im not sure what you mean by “used to be like me,” in that I dont buy into the roll over at first shot fired mentality.

    I am pretty steadfast in that we must make the right decisions.

    Ive went nose to nose with a lot of people in and out of DC about many policies and point blank said no to a lot of “good” ideas just for the sake of bipartisanship.

    Further more, if you re-read my comment you would note that I am not saying that we should sign on to a bad deal. We cannot or should not.

    Bad deal would be tax increases such as repealing the Bush era tax rates.

    However, if the Coburn proposal or some similar piece of legislation is proposed which cuts spending and follows through with some sort of “compromise” which closes abusive loop holes – then I am fine with it.

    This is not the time to cause a financial market collapse just to make a political point.

    This matter is not the same weight as scripture or the Bible. Sorry, it just aint.

  • gekster

    But since you can’t or won’t answer, I’ll let it go at that.

  • amigag

    They say a picture is worth a thousand words. This picture you have painted is much more than a thousand words izoneguy.

    When all the opinions and pros and cons and posts are read and considered, what you have written is the one that drives home what is at stake for our Nation. This is clarity at its best.

    This needs to be sent to every member of the U.S. House. If you would give me your permission, I would fax this to each member. It is an undertaking that I have done before during the Health Care debate. Not only each member of the House, but all of the Senators and especially those on the various Committees as well. And more than once and many phone calls also.

    You must be very talented, it’s very impressive.

  • Paul Seale

    If we get 80% of what we want and move the ball down the field, it is a win.

  • gekster

    If we don’t pass a raise in the debt ceiling, the sky will not fall.
    But I know you won’t hear of that.
    You fall for the Democrats nonsense.

  • http://www.ipsnational.com Craig Whitelock

    financial carnage that is real. The world markets will be roiled and our currency will be worth much less than it is today. The American Dollar may be replaced by a new reserve currency, with the BRIC’s at the helm.

    It’s not in anyone’s best interest except Obama to let this happen.

    But you’re right, the sky won’t fall.

  • amigag

    I’ve read your several posts on this thread and find it odd that you seem to think the Republicans/House/CCB need to compromise.

    Compromise with what? The “plan” that the White House doesn’t have? Or the “plan” that the Senate doesn’t have?

    Or is your definition of compromise in fact surrender?

    Just wondering.
    .

  • dbkohl

    I think there is going to be a mutiny within the Democratic ranks at some level. I don’t know how strong it will be and I don’t know which bill will be the catalyst. However, there are still some vulnerable Democratic House seats out there that managed to still swing blue last year. Also, 22 Democratic Senators have to defend thier seats. I think some middle of the road Dems will vote with the GOP in the near future. Also, we may find a few defectors from the Democratic Party to the GOP.

    The whole self-preservation mentality is to strong for some kind of movement NOT to happen.

  • dbkohl

    With all due respect for your history of very constructive commentary up to this point.

  • Spiral

    runner12,

    I see a large difference between the situation the colonists faced prior to independence from Great Britain and the situation conservatives face today.

    In the period just prior to the start of the revoluationary war, the colonists did not have represenatation. Period. This lack of representation was not due to losing a string of competitive election contests.

    King George did not become King of England as the result of a competitive election process, narrowing edging out Prince Harold by a few thousand absentee votes cast in Liverpool.

    So, asking the colonists to wait until they won an election before they demanded the right to govern would have been nonsense.

    Our situation today is different, much different.

    The American people are rapidly tiring of the decisions they made in 2006 and 2008. The Republican election victories of 2010 seem more reflective of current voter attitudes than do the 2006 and 2008 election results in which, overall, the Democrats beat the Republicans.

    However, we have in the United States staggered electoral terms for the US Senate and the President. About two-thirds of all US Senate seats were not contested in 2010 and the White House was not contested in 2010.

    So, one must have a sense of perspective when looking at the GOP victories in 2010. They were wonderful victories. But additional victories are needed before the bad policies of the last several years can be reversed.

    This should be common sense, both in raw civics terms and in political terms.

    The American people don’t like it when one political party, while not controlling all of the levers of power, acts like it should be able to call all the shots. To the American people, that looks like arrogance. If the GOP takes the position of, “We won in 2010. Do it our way or the US will welch on its legal-financial responsibilities,” we will not see a follow-up victory in 2012.

    But we badly, desparately need a follow-up victory in 2012.

    Back to back victories for the GOP are rare. But right now, such victories might be the only way the United States can avoid bankruptcy.

    Instead, some conservatives have decided to place all of the emphasis on these debt ceiling negotiations.

    I say that if we take a very flexible negotiation position, while rejecting any tax increases, we can win everything, the whole enchilada, 16 months from now. Then, in January 2013, we won’t need to worry about whether Harry Reid likes cut, cap and balance.

    Not only that, we can the bonus of being able to replace Ruth Bader Ginsberg with a conservative on the US Supreme Court, assuming we nuke the filibuster, since Democrats will filibuster any conservative judicial nominee.

  • izoneguy

    I am just a humble town cryer – this was sent to me by another town cryer.
    I do not know who originally wrote this. My hats are off to them.
    The sentiment I am sure is felt by all other town cryers…

    Please send it along.

  • amigag

    Thanks; then we’ll all be town cryers!! I will certainly send this on and see if I can enlist others to do so also.

    It will take a united effort to win this, so all hands on deck!!

  • gekster

    Start it off with what you have said here.
    More people will see it than if you leave it as just a comment.
    If you don’t want to, I’ll do it for you.

  • izoneguy

    http://www.redstate.com/izoneguy/2011/07/24/the-modern-version-of-the-ant-the-grasshopper/

  • judges176

    Ummm… You stopped one step short, we don’t even have a debt problem, we have a spending problem. We’ll never conquer the problem if we don’t attack the spending.

  • judges176

    …or kick the can down the road? Really, sometimes it’s tough to tell the difference. How bout, if we can’t tell, we just assume it’s “Kick the Can Down the Road”, and put a stop to it?

  • judges176

    This was supposed to be a reply to Freedoms. Now why won’t it do what I tell it?

  • http://undo4me.com WmCraig

    There is no Social Security surplus anymore for Congress to embezzle.That means ever dollar Congress borrows has to be paid back by us.

    The days of stealing from the future ended in 2010. Now not only are we being asked to pay back all the theft for services and benefits given away in the past, many to people that aren’t even alive today, we are also being strapped with additional debt to pay what Obama calls “necessary expenses”. That is day to day expenses.

    Stop lying to us, you want us to borrow money we will ave to pay back just so you can’t buy votes. This isn’t our grand children’s money your are spending. It isn’t even our children’s money. It is our money from next year you want to spend to day.

    This is theft, this is slavery, this is wrong.

    HOLD THE LINE

  • gettingsl

    Absolutely the right thing to do. I hear the republicans crying they have no power because they are only one voice in three. Instead they should look at it as though they hold all the power they need to stop this runaway transformational government. they are holding all the cards. If Obama wants to get something done he has to come to them. If he truly doesn’t want to stop the spending, and it’s clear he does not, no mount of compromise will save this country now.

  • clarioncaller

    The Democrat plan was always to get Republicans to the edge .Maybe even go over the edge if necessary to collapse the system. Cloward -Piven Strategy. Stand firm.be reliable.Let voters know that you stand for something.They support ending the financial madness.

  • bygeorge

    The reality is we?re screwed and don?t realize it! As reported by Michael Filozof, in ?The American Thinker? (21 July 2011), America is already a socialist country. With nearly 23% of our population (70 million) receiving some form of government check for their entire subsistence, then we have within our midst a vast class of voters who do not know the meaning of money or how it is earned.They only know where it comes from: It comes from the government. Just let those wicked Republicans meddle with that formula and see what happens! And worse, under Obama?s (peace be upon him) rule, socialism is quickly morphing into true fascism or, socialism with guns. He has taken a gift, the Patriot Act left to him by George W. Bush, and is using it as the core of his new police state (TSA). He is redefining the term Terrorist, to specifically include white people, TEA Party activists, complainers, etc. and is pointedly omitting Islam and all the while creating a crisis mentality we don?t recognize as the Potemkin Village scenario it is.

    But where does all of this money come from? Why is it dispensed so freely by the Left? What is the formula that makes it work? Well, where it comes from is easily discerned: The Federal Reserve Bank. What most folks don?t know is that the ?Fed? is a private Bank largely owned by private European Banks. The Fed has only one customer, the US Treasury. They make one product, Treasury notes, by the trillions, right out of thin air with no limit on production. This stuff has nothing to back it up. It is simply play money. Social Security was looted empty years ago.

    It is dispensed so freely because it makes hugh profits for the bankers which becomes an endless circle of more spending, deeper debt and then seeking more ways to spend it. War is a good place to spend a lot of paper money. So is the multi-generational welfare that destroys families creating a permanent welfare dependent underclass. And, when those avenues of expenditure fill up then the Fed feels compelled to give it away to foreign governments, and illegal aliens for their education, medical care and housing. It goes to anyone else with their hand out for easy money like community activists, planned parenthood, arts councils, Public Broadcasting and any other dumb ass grifter or organization whose goal is Americans destruction. It also goes to ever increasing salaries of our politicians and expensive airplane rides for the chief office holder. But most goes to the moochers, looters and non producers.

    Filozof calls Obama (peace be upon him) ?a poster boy for a ?money happens? mentality.? Filozof quotes Obama (peace be upon him) as saying he felt like he was ?behind enemy lines? in the only private sector job he ever held in his entire life. He has a long list of pre-governmental accomplishments amounting to absolutely nothing. His books were doubtless ghost written yet made him a millionaire and yet, somehow, he lost his license to practice law. His wife, who also surrendered her law license, filled a useless position in a Chicago hospital when her husband became a US Senator. The position was abolished after she moved to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. To the political left, money isn?t earned, It?s just there to be used by them for their purposes, to take from the the producers and re-distribute it. It?s as simple as that.

    So, what happens when our side actually cuts or tries to cut entitlements? We lose elections. Raise taxes and what happens, we lose elections. We get trashed by the left whatever we do and this cycle will be no different. It is clear that the political class, I won?t call them elites any more, are quite unable to resolve the current debt problem. One side works with threats and intimidation, the side in fear. The realization will come when no other entity will loan us any money any more. That?s the reality. (24 July 2011)

  • gizmo

    OK, since we lack leadership with any … ummmm…

    What if we let them do what they are gonna do anyway & play their games for now…

    And we, as the populace & those that OWN this country pulled a full-blown TAX REVOLT refusing to PAY any of these taxes? We could set aside $ to “prove” that we are able to, but then just not even FILE…

    Think about it… Millions of non-filing citizens… millions of non-paying businesses… OUR coffers would be holding strong…

    Where would the FEDS be?

    There’s NO WAY that the courts system, even the IRS, would be able to handle this volume of rebellion!

  • edintexas

    You mean like LBJ did in ’67? Like Carter did in ’79? I think I’m beginning to see a pattern here…

    Charlie Gasparino was on Fox and Friends this morning, pointing out that there is no reason for default, and if there is a default it will be a chosen path. He called Geithner a professional financial bureaucrat who knows default isn’t necessary, so his “performances” are really pitiful. Gasparino stated that Dear Leader NEEDS default, or at least the threat of it, to destabilize world financial markets. I believe that is calling a spade a spade – maybe even pointing out it is a shovel too.

  • http://www.periodictablet.com superamerican

    Reducing the massive buildup in government employees number back the Pre-Obama would barely reduce his deficit. But it isn’t even being talked about in this way. Liberals have defined the term “cut” or “reduction” not conservatives. And defined it as over ten years. A trillion dollars seems a big number, four trillion even bigger. But $4,000,000,000,000 over ten years averages $400 billion a year.

    Consider that Obama’s present non-budget deficit will be over $1,500,000,000,000. Let’s see $400 billion is more than a rounding error of $1.5 trillion, but even if actually cut (which will never happen in real life, only on the liberal’s paper) it leaves a $1.1. trillion deficit.

    THIS IS NOT CUTTING, THIS IS GIVING THE LIBERALS THE GOVERNMENT.

    It is clearly too late. The nation is doomed by fearless, power-mad liberals and frightened, losers…the Republican Party. Well, I guess we’re all the losers.

  • bleusmon

    my greatest fear was that the newbies which make up the bulk of the Tea Party movement which forced the changeover in Congress would lack sufficient political seasoning to realize – and accept – that with one house we can only block some things while forcing only some concessions until the aftermath of 2012. My worst fears are coming to pass.

    The biggest thing Republicans (not RINOs but genuine conservatives) have to fear is NOT Obama, the dems, or the media but Tea Party patriots who don’t grasp what is achievable. You can scream til you’re blue in the face; you can stomp your feet and dig in your heels on principle all you want, but nothing – absolutely nothing – will ever change the fact that with the Dems controlling the other house AND the WH we are limited in the gains we can make in this term.

    Certainly it sickens and infuriates me to see what is happening in DC right now, but I am also a realist. Folks, when you simply lack the power to force your will on others in government you MUST settle. You try to get the best deal you can, but the most important thing we can gain (and this is considerable) is to position Obama and the Dems with egg all over their face as our programs are shot down. Positioning our issues for 2012 is the only option genuinely achievable by the right at this time, and by demanding no compromise on the debt limit we have instead compromised our chances for positioning the Dems in the most unflattering light in the minds of the mushy middle for 2012.

    Surely you know we are losing the PR battle in this struggle, and that should be the problem Obama is having. Instead, we have once again snatched victory from the jaws of defeat. We could have turned a loss at this time into major fodder for a rout in Nov 2012.

    Instead, we have made the fatal error of believing our own rhetoric and acting on it instead of realistic strategies. Yes, I believe in the severe reduction of government but I also recognize what George Custer didn’t: we are outnumbered by superior forces which attitude alone cannot ameliorate. Therefore, our best strategies must be aimed at making the Dems and Obama pay the highest price for the short-term victory which will be theirs today.

    However, by focusing on no compromise, we have hamstrung Republicans efforts and if we throw them out and replace them with still more angry but unseasoned amateurs who will make even more tactical errors then we will lose big time with the mushy middle. You can’t change the laws of physics, and you can’t alter the rules affecting the formation of public opinion in every segment of the populace. Quite apart from graft, there are rules for what is effective in political struggle, and when you’re losing in public opinion you must see this ain’t it.

    Tea Party patriots need to learn how to persuade the undecided, not have temper tantrums which only play into the hands of Obama, the Dems, and the press,

    I know I’ll be attacked by the ideologically pure but I can’t disagree more with you, Erick. Right now is NOT the day to draw the line in the sand, no matter how emotionally satisfying to do so it may be. Ironically, I believe Republicans are scared of Tea Party members (and RedState) precisely because you’ve put them between a rock and a hard place from which there is no emergence. They lack the leverage to actually satisfy your demands but in the attempts to do so they’ve been out-maneuvered. Charles Krauthammer should be their quarterback. He has a clear-eye for the playing field and can easily distill the best options to the achievable.

    Unless this situation changes prepare yourselves for a reversal of the tide in 2012. You may well see a loss by the Republican presidential nominee.

  • jout99

    Support for them if they hold the line. Email this article to your friends and get the word out for the House to hold the line. No Compromise. It is up to us to do what it takes to let our representatives know that we support them . If we make enough noise , maybe a Tea Party in Washington is in order, then congress will get the message.

  • rickindenver

    We did not. I would prefer to hold the line now than rather than bet on controlling both houses and the presidency in 2012.

    Color me skeptical but didn’t the voters put these idiots in control of the Senate and White House in the first place?

  • JSobieski

    The colonists had no system by which to mobilize political support since they had no representative in Parliament.

    Dems fight, but they rarely commit suicide.

    Were the Bush tax cuts repealed in 2007?
    Was the Iraq war defunded in 2007?
    Did 2007 include a $1T stimulus package?

    You can’t have perspective on your own sides capabilities if you unduly build up the enemy in your own mind.

  • sccrenny

    do you propose we take a stand? With 75% of the American public supporting a BBA. With the Democrats (and some Republicans that it appears you align with) reacting like a demon to holy water, like a vampire to a cross. They don’t want to be “hamstrung”, as you put it, from compromising and capitulating our Republic into another European socialist blob. Being between a rock and a hard place should be a natural position for a Conservative. Hard choices are what we expect our representatives to be capable of.

    It’s called LEADERSHIP. It’s called COURAGE. It’s called CONVICTION. It’s called HONORABLE. It’s called TAKING A STAND FOR WHAT IS RIGHT.

    HOLD THE FREAKING LINE!

  • sccrenny

    guess i blew that responding to bleusmon above. Sorry! (not)

  • Green_Lantern

    There was a caller in to Rush today that was really interesting. Especially after Steve Wynn blew his top. I’m sure he and Reid have spoken recently. This President is probably not Evil, but he is definitely evil.