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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

In Defense of Holding the Line

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  July 26th, 2011 at 04:25 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

I’m getting beat to hell and back by conservatives for insisting the GOP hold the line on Cut, Cap, and Balance. Even here at RedState, I’m getting accused of “ideological intransigence.” Yeah, here at RedState. There’s a first time for everything.

People want a deal. People want John Boehner’s deal. People are upset with me for not liking John Boehner’s deal. People are telling me, “They only have one house, Erick. You can’t expect them to not compromise. They control nothing.”

I’ve said all along I expect a deal and a compromise. Here’s the problem and I need you to understand this from perspective, whether you agree with me or not.

See, I worked to send people to Washington, DC to solve problems, to make things right, to fix the things that were broken, and to send power back to the states. They are not doing that.

We all saw Democrats go to Washington in 2008 and take the whole thing. They controlled everything and they made everything worse. They passed a stimulus bill that killed or ruined hundreds of thousands of jobs in the private sector while growing the government. They increased dependency on the federal government. And then they passed Obamacare and socialized American healthcare. But it doesn’t fully take effect until 2014. We saw Democrats willing to lose their positions to lurch the nation left.

So we sent to Washington an army of conservatives to Washington to defund Obamacare and stop the White House. And now they’ve gotten there and have refused to fight. They promised and put in writing that they’d cut $100 billion from the federal government budget in 2011 and they ultimately cut only $38 billion. The Congressional Budget Office, when it was done scoring it, said they really were only cutting about $500 million and it would cost more money that it was worth it to actually cut those dollars.

So they said, “But we”ll stand firm on the debt ceiling. We’ll hold the line.” Everybody gave them a pass and said, “Okay, hold the line on the debt ceiling.”

Now here we are the week before the deadline. John Boehner laments they should have done it sooner, but he refused to do it sooner. The Speaker has prevented the Republicans from submitting legislation to ensure we would not default so that he would have leverage over his own members to force them to take a deal. And now they are dealing.What is their deal?

Their deal creates another committee to look at spending — the 18th in the past 30 years. These 18 committees have never done anything except raise taxes. Their spending cuts are put off a decade and future congresses ignore them.

Boehner’s spending caps are easily waived as they’ll be rules, not laws. And they punt.

A lot of you are emailing and getting on twitter saying to take the deal. Take the compromise. Why should we compromise? That’s what we always do. Even when in the majority we compromise. The Democrats didn’t compromise on healthcare. But you people want to compromise. Republicans, whether in the majority or minority, are always compromising in favor of bigger government and imaginary spending cuts.

To make matters worse, why the hell are the Republicans the ones coming up with the plans if they only control one house of one branch of the federal government? Why are they doing it? We’re on the third damn plan. They aren’t even compromising with the Democrats. They are compromising with themselves.

The Democrats are holding their line. The GOP is splitting conservatives. The Democrats are saying “Raise the debt ceiling. Don’t cut anything.” And Boehner is saying okay and putting in cuts that take affect in year eight of ten so none of them will be around to be held accountable. Why?

The GOP came up with Paul Ryan‘s plan. They passed it. They took bullets. The GOP put him in a witness protection program and dropped it like a hot potato.

So then the GOP passed Cut, Cap, and Balance and the Democrats beat them up and again accused the GOP of killing grandma. The leadership was lukewarm to it and never fought for it. And immediately after voting for it, the leadership said, “Now, let’s move on to the third plan.”

Are these all just symbolic votes? If so, I’d rather some substance. This symbolism is getting the GOP killed with nothing to show for it.

Why the hell are we on our third plan when the Democrats haven’t even come up with one plan? They haven’t even passed a budget in over 800 days. We’re in this mess because Harry Reid, in December of 2010, refused the raise the debt ceiling so the GOP could own the problem. The GOP fell into the trap with eyes wide open.

And the Republicans are falling for it yet again.

And now I’m being accused of thinking this is all a game even by long time RedState readers. I do not think this is all a game.

I know the credit rating is going to be downgraded and I don’t want it to happen. You people who want the deal are so worked up in emotion that you are ignoring all the facts. Here are the facts:

1. S&P says we need a deal of at least $4 trillion in cuts to avoid a credit rating drop.

2. Neither Boehner nor Reid get us there.

3. The only plan that gets us there is Cut, Cap, and Balance and the GOP is running away from it as fast as they can. The GOP already passed it and it just four votes shy of a majority in the Senate.

No one wants to fight. “No, we’ve already had that vote. It can’t pass the Senate,” they say.

There will be no default on August 2nd. We know it will not happen. How do we know? Because we have more money coming in each month than is needed to pay principle and interest on our national debt. And we have had multiple prior occasions where we have gone passed the deadline and the world did not suddenly end. It is all political rhetoric. Shame on you for succumbing to fear.

Barack Obama does not want to be remembered as the President on whose watch the nation defaulted. His leverage goes away on August 3rd and the GOP holds all the cards. We won’t default. We can improve our negotiating position.

The GOP could hold the line. And because they won’t hold the line, they are tanking our credit behind a bunch of smoke and mirrors. If the Democrats blame the GOP when the credit rating drops, the GOP will damn well deserve the blame if they stick with Boehner’s plan.

They could at least fight to turn the tide. They could at least hold the line.

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COMMENTS

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  • charlesmartel

    is say I agree 100%. Wish I could do more.

  • bk

    While all we hear from the WH/Senate/MSM is “there is a gap between the mainstream GOP and the TeaThuglicans” there is NOBODY ever mentioning that a couple dozen of Reid’s Senators up for election in 2012 are telling him to agree to ANYTHING that will get this off the table, regardless of how much the Kos wing of the Dem Party hates it.

    The GOP needs to recognize that this split keeps the pressure on the Democrats at least as much as the Tea Party is keeping the pressure on the mainstream Republicans.

  • ghostship

    Don’t let all these squishy RINO’s who want to take Boehner?s deal and cave to the Democrats get to you.

    There are those here who agree 100% with you. I know because I’m one of them.

  • sarg01

    But you’re talking about a bill that can not pass. It has nothing to do with the merits and everything to do with politics.

    The only two Dem senators who might get away with selling out their base – and remember, their base is public-sector employee unions, lawyers and lobbyists – are Nelson and Manchin, simply because they represent states which are considerably to the right of their positions. That means CCB has an absolute cap of 49 votes, and even that’s a bit pie-in-the-sky

    What’s more, CCB provisions its ability to move forward on the passing of a balanced budget amendment. With a 67-vote threshold, it’s even more DOA in the Senate than CCB itself was.

    20 Democrats will never vote for a BBA. Never. They’d amend the Constitution to outlaw abortion and make Christianity the official religion of the country before they’d consent to permanent limits on governmental spending. They can no more exist without that money than they can exist without oxygen.

    Any position predicated on the passage of a BBA through this Congress is just ignoring reality.

    It was one election. That we’ve even managed to shift the trajectory is a huge win – even if all we’ve done is slowed the spending. Limit the damage, get to 2012, then pass all the cuts and tax reform we want.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Lots of people are showing their true colors.

  • avgjo

    You’ve held the line, so you speak to our Reps with moral authority.

    It is a rare, and beautiful thing to see uncompromising principle in action. Thanks again.

  • altexas

    is not a compromise. In any compromise with the devil, the devil wins.

    A balanced budget is obviously right. That is the whole concept of a budget. Anything else is not a budget.

    Our Senate majority leader believes a budget would be foolish. Our President does not want a temporary increase in the debt ceiling. The logical alternative would be a permanent increase in the debt limit that suits what he thinks he can spend in his last 18 months.

    We sent new representatives to the House to stop the spending and repeal Obamacare. As long as they hold to that, the Senate and President are rendered irrelevant.

  • lesueur8

    What has changed with the Republicans dominating the house? How is America better off? Will we be on stronger fiscal footing?

  • Matt In The Hook

    This is reality folks.

    And hell, if you’re so sure that the credit rating will get downgraded whatever we choose, why not choose Reid’s plan and say “it was the Democrats plan that got us downgraded.”

    Selective default is not an answer. No, we will not miss coupon payments but we would miss about 44% of all outlays legally required. The rating agencies would be well within their rights to consider that SD and that’s functionally equivalent of D.

    As for being the party that “always compromises” that’s utter nonsense. We’ve effectively blocked any and everything Obama wants policywise that we could block. Cap and tax, amnesty, card check. It’s dead until at least the next election.

    Let’s not be stupid and fumble away the advantage we’ve earned. The public now wants the debt problem solved. We’ve held the line on taxes even when it’s unpopular and folks I hate to say it but it is. A healthy majority in every poll over the last few weeks wants higher taxes on people making more than $250K and a compromise bill that includes revenue and cuts. Holding the line on taxes when an all cuts bill is getting like 35% support is a pretty damn good place to hold the line.

  • Matt In The Hook

    This is reality folks.

    And hell, if you’re so sure that the credit rating will get downgraded whatever we choose, why not choose Reid’s plan and say “it was the Democrats plan that got us downgraded.”

    Selective default is not an answer. No, we will not miss coupon payments but we would miss about 44% of all outlays legally required. The rating agencies would be well within their rights to consider that SD and that’s functionally equivalent of D.

    As for being the party that “always compromises” that’s utter nonsense. We’ve effectively blocked any and everything Obama wants policywise that we could block. Cap and tax, amnesty, card check. It’s dead until at least the next election.

    Let’s not be stupid and fumble away the advantage we’ve earned. The public now wants the debt problem solved. We’ve held the line on taxes even when it’s unpopular and folks I hate to say it but it is. A healthy majority in every poll over the last few weeks wants higher taxes on people making more than $250K and a compromise bill that includes revenue and cuts. Holding the line on taxes when an all cuts bill is getting like 35% support is a pretty damn good place to hold the line.

  • snowshooze

    Isn’t a good thing. As I say, he placed our goal-post inside theirs.

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    What Erick said about how we got here is what the Republican leadership should be explaining to the American people with one voice.

    Right now Cantor is on Hannity saying “we can’t do anything until Obama is out of office.”

    B.S.

    Thank you,

    ColdWarrior

  • izoneguy

    HOLD THE LINE RALLY

    Wednesday, July 27 ? 12:00pm – 2:00pm

    Washington, DC – Upper Senate Park

    The Tea Party Comes to Town for
    HOLD THE LINE RALLY!
    American’s don’t want a deal…
    They want a solution!

    Media Inquires: Amy Kremer amykremer@gmail.com
    More Information: Jennifer Hulsey hulsey1873@gmail.com
    To be Coalition Partner: Kylie Jane Kremer kyliejanekremer@gmail.com

  • anjinconsulting

    There can be no quibbling or vacillation, or else you will be no better than the RINOs and the Democrats we all know and deplore. Let us know what we can do to help you.

    You cannot compromise on principle.

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    instead of the whole bologna. The Obama hand weakens as time passes. Obama is the one who should be shoved into accepting something tomorrow he did not want today.

    Or August 2nd or 3rd.

  • fpete13527

    You have my full support.

    Hold the line!

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    I have said it before and I will say it again. Boehner should resign. I heard him on Rush today and he sounded like an idiot. I listened to everything he promised and none of it will come true. He offers nothing but compromise when we cannot afford compromise. He does not offer any true leadership and he should be dismissed.

  • miconservative

    Hold the line like General Picket at Gettysburg. Let’s remember what happened…they held the line until the entire division was destroyed and the war was lost. You say the Dems were willing to lose their seats to get their liberal agenda through, but what you fail to mention is that they had the numbers, super majorities in both houses of Congress and a liberal President in the White House, so that it was all possible. GOP has only the House. Only 47 members in the Senate and Obama still in the White House. So General Picket Boehner can hold the line and get his army destroyed and still lose the vote, or take a tactical victory and live to fight another day, like U.S. Grant. I prefer the Grant strategy to Picket all day long. Down in Georgia you might be fond of Picket, but up here in the North we are more concerned about winning the war.

  • fortcollins

    The quickest way to force a Balanced Budget Amendment (I would prefer a Debt Elimination and Capped Budget Amendment) through Congress would be for the states to begin passing resolutions calling for a Constitutional Convention. If the resolutions were open-ended, unlimited as to subject matter, even the Dems would panic and surrender the BBA to avoid a broader revolt.

    This leverage by the states is truly the fourth branch of the federal government. Given the rising level of dissatisfaction with Washington, the odds of a Con-Con are improving.

    Pushing for a BBA vote is not a lost cause. It forces people to take positions. It clarifies both the ideal language and the goal. And it encourages conservatives across the country to start pushing for the states to address the issue.

  • lineholder

    Just out, over at Hot Air. Carney gets hammered with “where’s the Obama plan?”

  • ghostship

    Aug 2nd is almost here and Obama and the Democrats don’t want to so called “default.” so put the pressure on them. CC&B or “Default” and see which way they jump.

    Right now they don’t think they have to compromise because the GOP doesn’t have the guts to do it and it’s because of attitudes like yours that make them believe the GOP are spineless cowards.

    If the Party doesn’t have the will to fight then electing any Republican is completely pointless.

    The GOP needs to fight or there’s no purpose for it’s existence.

  • acat

    You do NOT want to be a Dem Senator, elected six years ago as an anti-Bush candidate, in a purple state, where the economy is now the #1 issue, looking at having to run against “Sen. X helped Harry Reid and Barack Obama crash our economy”.

    When the ads write themselves, on one of the biggest issues likely to face us in 2012, an issue that can be hung albatross-like ’round the necks* of Barack Obama, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi et al and sink their careers like stones…

    The Dems in the Senate are already facing an uphill fight in 2012 – there’s more of them up for re-election than GOPers by almost a 2-1 margin, there’s more of them in purple “unsafe” seats, and they mostly got elected in the days of anti-Bush sentiments. (and, in Manchin’s case, pro-Obama sentiments)

    They can crack, or they can hand their opposition an issue. They can be broken. They can be made to vote “Aye” on CCB.

    Hold the line.

    Mew

    * no, that’s not a racist comment, go read some Coleridge

  • marshmom

    and thanked them for their support of CCB and told them to stand firm and they have my support all the way for standing their ground on this issue.

    I have read so many opinions on this whole debt ceiling issue and have given it much thought and consideration. I agree with Erick wholeheartedly on this issue. The Republicans did pass a solution with CCB. They did their part. They compromised and they did what was best for the country. It’s not their problem that none of the Marxists in our government want to get behind it. If we pass another “compromise”, we’ll just be headed down the same road we’ve been on ever since Obama got elected. The road to ruin.
    We have to take a stand somewhere. Did the liberals compromise during Obamacare??? Did they compromise during the stimulus?? NO! Because they would love nothing more than to ruin America and rebuild her in their utopian image. They are the ones destroying this country, not the other way around. If we default, it will be THEIR fault for not compromising and passing CCB.

    As far as the media goes, they will always find a way to turn Republicans into the bad guys no matter what happens, so screw them. The American people aren’t stupid. They know what the media is up to. The ones who listen and believe their narrative are the ones most likely to vote for Obama to begin with.

    We have to do the right thing. The right thing for America and our children. It may be tough, it won’t be fun, but most things that are necessary aren’t very much fun.

  • Ausonius

    “Realpolitik” is German for “realistic politics” and favors taking the deal that you can get at the time, i.e. being realistic.

    By “being realistic” long-term, Republicans have lost American culture and control of the courts and the bureaucracy, and have fostered, either by RINOism or realism or whatever you want to call it, our present bankruptcy and the beginning of a descent into long-term mediocrity.

    So maybe we should try being completely UNrealistic for once! :)

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/272768/carney-gets-hit-ten-minutes-obama-plan-daniel-foster

    That is a card that needs to be played. And mentioned to the American people. Along with the fact that we’re here because the Senate did nothing for two years. Etc., etc., etc.

    Where are the men (and women) with courage?

    Thank you.

    ColdWarrior
    P.S. Now Cantor is whining about how, if the markets went south and the economy tanked, because of Opuppet, then Opuppet would “blame the Republicans.” Boo hoo hoo.

  • Fla Mom

    You were great today, substituting for Boortz; ‘on fire,’ as my husband put it. Our ‘leadership’ isn’t doing what it can to educate people on why its position (CC&B) is the right one; they should be having a full court press, including TV and radio commercials. How many people even realize that CC&B only lacks 4 votes to go to the floor?

    I don’t even care anymore if we default. If the reason that we don’t default is some lame deal that puts us deeper in the hole, then we should default right now. It would give folks the incentive to fix the problems instead of doing this stupid political game, as if it’s 20 or 30 years ago. It’s not a game; our side should be fighting the war that it is.

    Fla Mom

  • Paul Seale

    Once again, I say this with the most respect, but our side has fought tooth and nail and resisted attempts at everything from a clean debt increase to repealing the Bush era tax code.

    To say that Republicans are wimping out is simply not true.

    You are over playing how CCB is dead. It isnt just 4 votes – it is 4 Democrat votes. Democrat votes who are just as dedicated to “holding the line” and not allowing it a chance to see light of day.

    This is why Conservatives (and Republicans) may be looking at what options are available.

    I think you have a couple of points how the Boehner plan which need to be addressed – but I dont think you do it by derailing the process and handing Democrats as much leverage as they need to bare down and play the blame game.

    The track which is presently being taken is taking the shape of exactly the way the media wants to portray us, the conservative movement, as hard-liners who would rather see the nation burn than compromise.

    While it should be accurate that we want to pair government down, I cannot help but refer back to Reagan’s quote about getting 80% of what we want rather than going over the cliff waving our flag. There is a very good reason for that.

    There is a time to fight and a time to govern. Now is a time to govern.

    Again, that does not mean we take the low levels of TARP when we only had the Presidency and an economy on the brink (it should be noted that in negotiations we were able to strip out billions of dollars of pork).. but it does mean that we should take a common sense and reasonable approach.

    What we should be focusing on, instead of charging in where angels fear to tread, is as follows:

    -4T goal. Does any deal meet this goal in an effort to keep our AAA rating. If it does not, why? This must be a precondition of any deal, other wise problems are not solved.

    -Committees: I really loathe the idea, REALLY. I have heard conflicting reports on this.. does it recommend policy which the Congress votes on or does it decide and pass on its own? I would ensure that their proposals report back to Congress for up or down vote.

    Likewise, I would make sure that before any votes are delivered for ANY deal which involves some off the wall committee that there must be proper representation. That means it cant be full of squishies who want tax hikes.

    -Re-upping the debt ceiling. Any re-upping of future debt ceiling must be tied to cuts passed by the Congress (presumably from the debt commission).

    Our nation deserves solutions, not political rhetoric. This is not a zero sum game, especially since we only control the House.

    I do not believe President Obama or Democrats want a deal. They’ve been pining for this scenario since last fall.

    Erick, while you and other maintain that we will not go into default on Aug 2nd based on statistical analysis which I agree with, I believe that it is irresponsible to bring government to the brink.

    I have never been involved in politics solely for a party or cause. I would much rather be thinking about my family and working where ever God calls me to be.

    Unfortunately, this burden weighs on my heart greatly.

    It was the TARP incident which turned the tide for Democrats (McCain was slightly ahead, I believe, just before the incident).. I am fearful, that as with TARP, we as a community may turn against ourselves again – when we need other the most.

    I pray that we do not repeat history. If we do, it means we have learned nothing.

  • jaykali

    They’ve already released another more watered down bill which in effect concedes that CCB is dead. I suppose their hope would have been to keep pushing CCB altho they know that they would get hammered as being unreasonable (which they are being labelled regardless).

    I think you’ll the Reid and Boehner split the difference on their 2 plans. Reid will get the longer extension in favor of some non-imaginary cuts that add up to 2.4 trillion. I feel like that is the pre-determined outcome. The president and democrats will still rail against the GOP as being hostage takers but the GOP will get their cuts and Obama will simultaneously criticize the GOP for being hostage takers while also taking credit for being a deficit hawk since he’ll have signed the bill.

    So the next time the GOP calls him a big spender, he’ll say “I’ve signed the biggest spending cuts in government history!!” which will be technically true but he’ll leave out the part where he was dragged kicking and screaming. This is going to be just like the extension of the tax cuts in December. He got to be against it and take credit for it at the same time. He LOVES outcomes where he can simultaneously hold multiple (and contradictory) positions on an issue.

  • GopTiger

    If we hold the line and demand the Senate pass CCB, even if it means a possible default and the media bruising the GOP will sustain if that occurs, which four Senate Democrats do you expect to play Judas to the Secular Liberal Messiah in the White House?

    Name names.

    Which four Democrats are lining up to be the most hated 4 Democrats in their own party? Which four Senate Democrats are lining up for the inevitable liberal primary challenger?

    If you can’t give us four names of Senate Democrats that we could reasonably expect to vote for CCB, then your posturing is meaningless.

    Or is it, as I expect, that you know dang well this will never happen and you’re simply angling toward a situation where this is no plan and Obama has to raise the debt ceiling unilaterally?

    If that be the case, you very well may get your wish, because I think it is increasingly likely.

  • avgjo

    -nt-

  • miconservative

    against the Boehner plan. I guess politics does make interesting bedfellows.

  • forwhomthelibertybelltolls

    Let’s deconstruct the arguments of all those who think compromise is the way to go, shall we?

    1. CCB won’t pass the Senate.
    There are a number of moves to get CCB passed on its own merits in the Senate. They haven’t been tried. Try to get it passed on its own and send BBA up separately. Amend it slightly. Pass it in pieces. First cut, then cap, then balance. Try. Fight.

    2. Boehner’s Plan is the only one that will pass the House and the Senate.
    Wrong and wrong. With the GOP spit and only a few Dems willing to vote for it, it may not pass the House; the GOP gets blamed for “default” and the credit rating drop. The WH has said BO will veto it, so the Senate Dems have no incentive to pass it.

    3. The US “defaults” if the debt ceiling isn’t raised.
    Wrong again. BO is even “secretly” reassuring bank execs that the US isn’t in danger of a default. Shhhh! Don’t tell those Republican lawmakers though!

    4. This is the best we deal we can get.
    Now, this is just ridiculous. Several better deals have already been passed. Modifying one of those slightly would be WAY better than this deal and this is the BEST we can do? Don’t think so. Try. Fight.

    Get a grip, people.

  • miconservative

    Last time I checked every single Democrat in the Senate voted to table CCB.

  • avgjo

    We’ve been using what you call the ‘Grant strategy’, but we’re not replicating his success.

    Doubt me?

    Name the government agencies which have been phased out since the Reagan Revolution.

    Name the entitlements which have been sent packing.

    Name the advances we’ve made in winning back the culture.

    Please, I’m listening.

  • ghostship

    Instead of the GOP telling their base they need to elect more Republicans as their excuse for not passing Conservative legislation they should make the Republican Party worth electing by fighting for Conservative legislation.

  • sarg01

    Just not a battle that can’t be won.

    We’ve forced Obama off his position four times:

    1) No Bush tax-cut extension

    2) Obama Big Spending Budget – we turned the message around so forcefully it lost 0-97.

    3) “Clean” Debt Ceiling increase

    4) Must have tax increases

    The Senate has already conceded all four of those points and are close to conceding a 5th – no repeat discussion until after the election. THAT’S the victory we should be trying to win now, coupled with bigger immediate cuts.

  • mich22

    I love Erick Erickson and think he’s brilliant, but when he writes “So we sent to Washington an army of conservatives to Washington to defund Obamacare and stop the White House”, I’m left scratching my head. Yes, we did well, very well in 2010. We took the House. But, for Pete’s sakes folks, we failed to take the Senate! It was a big deal that we missed that mark. We could’ve had it, but we didn’t win it. Why? We didn’t work hard enough, we waited to long to support good candidates, maybe in some cases, we didn’t put the right candidates forward. Whatever the reason…we lost. We didn’t put an “army of conservatives” in to DC – we put a half army in without the ability to do the big things we are asking of them. Now, we can either start the circular firing squad baloney, or we can, like Rush said today, WIN MORE ELECTIONS! Period. We must win the Senate and take the Presidency in 2012. Whatever we do now, we can not do anything, anything at all, that gives Obama or the Dems any political capital to use against us. Know thy timing, conservatives. You don’t fight full out war until you have all your regiments ready and in place, or you lose and you lose big.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    A vote to table without any publicity is hardly the same as a vote to kill the measure in a straight up on down vote. If Reid is so sure of his Senate support and loyalty then why not allow the vote and kill CCB right out. Why? Because he knows it will pass.

  • fortcollins

    If the August 2 deadline is real, it is now too late for any compromise to become law without the Dear Leader’s autograph. Regardless of what eventually escapes Congress, Comrade Obama will actually have to make a decision. That’s one for the books.

  • Paul Seale

    We at least must put our best effort to try and make things right.

    There are many good “compromises” in our government over history, whether it was it tax cuts in the past, present or future for that matter.. It is at the very core of our nation’s history – even bad ones like the “missouri” or 3 5ths compromise

    Yes, BBA is the goal.

    How do you propose to to get Democrats to resurrect CCB, let alone pass with 20 extra votes for a BBA?

    We must be smart – get what we can and then move forward, united, for 2012.

  • chbroussard

    Too bad you’re not Speaker of the House. I don’t know what it takes for some people to finally get their belly full of all the BS and draw a damn line in the sand. And once you draw that line, don’t erase it and draw another one. All that does is confirm that someone can be bullied a little and they’ll retreat every time. All we get by compromising is giving the Dems the upper hand, and they are masters at it. They don’t care what the majority of the American people want or do not want (i.e., Obamacare, more stimulus). It’s all about what Dems want as they transform America into their own vision.

    America’s financial back is already against the wall. Just how much further back can we draw that line.

  • lineholder

    And from an economic standpoint, its knowing that our government will be doing something solid to cut spending and move toward a balanced budget that is likely to provide confidence to a very cautious private sector.

  • Paul Seale

    Care to compare past budget increases? Care to look at everything Republicans stopped Obama from doing and policies which were blocked.

    Dont be blinded.

    Its not complete for sure, but it is not an all or nothing game. To think so is silly – not that I dont wish.

  • marshmom

    Exactly. That is the whole concept of a budget–to balance finances!

    You know, if I’m about to go over my credit limit with my credit card company and I’m having trouble making payments, they aren’t going to say, “Hey, lets raise that so you can keep spending!!”
    That would be insane! And it is insane!! Every household in America has to have some type of budget or our house, car, etc. gets taken away and we can’t buy food to eat.

    The government is a junkie that needs some tough love. No more money. Use what you have and reallocate.

  • avgjo

    Our only protection, the Constitution, will be re-written in the image of a secular, internationalist, socialist document. America would cease to exist, except in name.

    I wish well-meaning conservatives would quit pushing this lunacy.

  • keysconservative

    the press will hail Obama as “The Great Leader” and the GOP will be left holding the bag. Compromise, don’t compromise, it doesn’t matter. As far as the media is concerned the story is already written, Obama is the hero, GOP are the villians, details to come. For those who are saying we should compromise to avoid the GOP being blamed for default, failure, whatever, you’re kidding yourselves. If all goes well, Obama gets the credit. If it all goes to hell, GOP gets the blame. That’s the template-deal with it.
    The only option is to stand on principle. Win or lose, take a stand.

  • Ausonius

    Thanks to AVGJO!

    Earlier today I wrote:

    “I believe more and more that we are seeing a choice between a future where America re-energizes itself and remains a ?shining city on a hill,? and future where the hill is dark and the city in decay.

    Will we be telling the ghosts of our soldiers that we have decided to blow out the candles?”

    See:

    http://www.redstate.com/ausonius/2011/07/26/what-will-we-say-to-the-ghosts-of-valley-forge-gettysburg-and-iwo-jima/

  • kinggold

    Accusations of cowardice are improper. Especially when they can be countered by accusations of impetuous intransigence.

    I would hasten to add that had we been a bit more calculating with regard to the elections of 2010, Harry Reid would be a nonfactor and Cut, Cap, and Balance might well be law by now.

    But there were some among us who believed nominating hopeless crackpots and losing was more important than winning seats with people who might not vote the way we want every single time.

  • jaykali

    This is deader than the public option. Just ain’t going to happen. That doesn’t mean we can’t get as much as we can (like um how about NON-PHONY cuts?) and hope to sweep the 2012 elections.

    Even if we win the senate (very possible) and WH (very possible!!) we still are not going to get everything we want. I think all you have to do is look at the Dems supermajority in 2009, they put all their chips in the health care + stimulus basket and so they weren’t able to get some other lefty goodies.

    Remember there’s always a few moderates hanging around that won’t agree to everything. I think it’s very possible that the Republicans win majorities and the WH and use up all their political capital on serious tax and entitlement reform + healthcare repeal only to get demagogued as grandma killers and lose seats in 2014. But we’ll cross that bridge when we get there, right?

  • GopTiger

    If that be the case (I’ll pretend), then can you name the four Senate Democratts who are secretly itching to vote for CCB and be hated by every Democratic constituency for stabbing the President Affirmative Action in the back?

    Who are these brave souls?

    Names, please.

  • Paul Seale

    A vote to table essentially kills the bill without the senator having to take blame for “voting against” a piece of legislation.

    Now, could you answer tigers question. It is very accurate.

  • snowshooze

    Never open that can of worms.
    There would be so much to lose, over a paltry selection of gains…
    I think it akin to suicide.

  • acat

    is that if we fail to hold the line, there is no reason for the Tea Party to continue to heed Cold Warrior’s call to move the party inside the GOP.

    Take a look at the electoral map and imagine if, in each of theStates where we hope to pick up a Senate seat, voters have a choice of Joe Tea Party, Evan Establishment-GOP, and Denny Democrat. Who wins? (hint: D)

    This is one reason why I still refer to some of the GOP as “country-club republicans” – they’d still rather lose than be represented by a “commoner” like Reagan… or Palin.

    The effort to displace the country clubbers from the leadership of our party is partially determined by whether the madding crowd of the Tea Party are willing to make the effort … hint, if they don’t get results, I fully expect some of them to try a third way…. at least that’s what I’ve been hearing out here in flyover country….

    Mew

  • jaykali

    I think we all know the answer sadly. Finally, FINALLY! The WH gets grilled on having NO F-ING PLAN!! This would have been nice like um 3 months ago but better late than never.

    This could and should be a big story but I imagine it will die pretty quick. It might get covered by Chuck Todd on one of the NBC shows (since he was apart of it) but then it will go away.

    I love the “Who’s on first” routine of Carney trying to explain how platitudes ARE specific even though um they aren’t?

  • d_lamar

    I, like you, am disgusted with the leadership of the GOP on the spending and debt issues. Boehner and McConnell have made it crystal clear that reducing the size of government is not something that they’re interested in. So, until they’re replaced, things don’t look real promising for downsizing the government.

    However, if there is a conservative majority in the house who will stand firm, they do have the power to stop increasing the debt limit. They don’t have to worry about coming up with something that the Senate and Obummer agree to. Just don’t pass an increase in the debt ceiling. They hold all the cards. Nothing gets done without the house’s approval. It’s as if the Constitution has granted the House of Representatives a veto over the Senate and Executive branches. And now is the time to exercise that veto.

    Make the Senate at least pass or attempt to pass a bill.

    Boehner is acting like he has no influence, when in fact he holds all the cards, but wants to fold them in order to get a deal that the Senate and Obummer will agree to. Disgusting!!!!

  • acat

    Harry Reid followed Senate rules. He asked the Senate, which is at it’s heart a debate club, to vote about whether to take a vote. They voted no.

    He put the bill on the table.

    He can bring it up for another vote about whether to take a vote again tomorrow, if he wants.

    Mew

  • http://www.sheetanchor.org Sheet Anchor

    Thank you again, Erick, for providing strong leadership. What we need now are Grants, and Shermans. . We have never won a war by compromising; and make no mistake; this is a war, and we are now engaged. Stay on the offensive!

    This is a fight for our great Republic, and it is time to stand firm. Stand firm, you new Republicans in Congress; just like the 101st Airborne Division at Bastogne.

    We are standing with you now; will stand with you in the next election; and we will send you reinforcements. Do not waver or move. Hold the line at all costs. We worked tirelessly to elect you, and we sent you there to stop this President at all costs. Do not move; and like Marines, keep atttacking!

  • kinggold

    Three reasons.

    1) Ken Buck.

    2) Christine O’Donnell.

    3) Sharron Angle.

    We blew our chance of capturing the Senate, and we blew it big-time. Look closely. Nancy Pelosi is nowhere to be found in these negotiations. If Harry Reid were also gone, we would have whipped this president silly months ago.

    Sadly, not even RedState, who should know better, is interested in winning anything past the next election.

  • Paul Seale

    1) Name the ways. I want details because if you are telling the truth, we need pressure applied to take those routes. I havent seen any pressure on specific tactics so I doubt.. but please, fill us in.

    2) I am guessing you are correct on this matter. The split amongst us will kill the bill, giving Boehner zero leverage. Democrats, on the other hand, may have enough leverage to pass Reids bill (provided he actually puts it down on paper) – in which the pressure cooker gets put on who? You guessed it.

    3) Because Obama is telling banks something doesnt mean squat. He could be telling them something in private to keep them from freaking out – we have no facts to tell us that he and his administration will make the right choices.

    Obviously you have more faith in President Obama than I when it comes to financial matters. I personally find it irresponsible to give him and Democrats the chance.

    4) I agree to a point, but I think its silly to close the door on any deal,

  • jaykali

    We don’t have numbers.

  • lineholder

    Oh, you were just being sarcastic, right? My bad.

  • acat

    that tells me even more than his slap at Social Security that he’s created this crisis out of whole cloth. That is, that the people who have said there’s enough money (without raising the deficit) to keep the lights on were right.

    Mew

  • loganyung

    Everybody said that Walker couldn’t see those budget cuts to the end, and the Democrats in Wisconsin were predicting Armageddon. Just the opposite has happened.

    Republicans should hold the line.

  • Paul Seale

    Nice straw man, but you are not answering the question.

    Until you can find 4 Democrat senators willing to go “ponchus pilate” on Reid, the bill is dead.

    Name those four.

  • sarg01

    I don’t think the “horrible” candidates were inherently terrible choices.

    However, I completely agree that expectations of the House unilaterally killing O-care or erasing 70 years of government expansion is bordering on crazy talk.

    The Senate turns over every 6 years. It’s designed that way for a reason. If you want to affect real, permanent, amend-the-Constitution change you have to win big in 3 straight elections. 1 down, two to go. We’ll win the 2014 one big – we always fare well in off-year elections, especially with the rise of the Tea Party, and the numbers are 20-13 in our favor, plus a bunch of Dems may retire when facing minority status next year.

    That leaves 2012. The numbers guarantee we win (at least on the Senate side), but the difference will be if we win small or win big. A big win will give us power to reshape the government that Reagan never had. Obama’s depressed economy will rebound under a new R administration, and progressivism will be finished for at least 25 years.

    That’s the war. That’s how we win. That’s how the republic gets saved.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    The same Senators who are up for election next year who will not want to have a campaign ad about how they voted for continued spending. In particular I am thinking of Manchin from WV who campaigned on fiscal responsibility.

    No you answer my question of why Reid tabled it without fanfare if he is so sure of his Democrat votes?

  • avgjo

    The Founders were not ‘realistic’. They were idealists in the truest sense. And they changed the world. America has carried on that tradition for over 200 years. The only question now: will we continue it, or will become ‘realists’ like the rest of the world?

    I’m in this fight for the long haul. I hope many, many others are.

  • acat

    Utterly wrong-headed, and about what I’d expect from an establishment republican who’s scared of losing his satrapy, or a Dem who’s scared of actually having to work in the private sector.

    Mew

  • kinggold

    Utterly short-sighted, and about what I’d expect from a True Conservative who demands “victory” even if it costs us every seat in the Congress, or a slacktivist who’s never had to deal with political realities on the ground.

    Hiss.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    Do you even know what that phrase means. acat countered your point that it was killed. Now you smart off about a nice strawman. The CCB bill is less dead than your fighting spirit.

  • Mark Meed

    Selective military analogies are more annoying than enlightening, especially when uninformed. Gettysburg was effectively won on the second day when Chamberlain “held the line” against Oates Alabamians on Little Round Top. Grant sidled and maneuvered when he had to and persisted when he had to (please see an obscure campaign called “Vicksburg”).

    By the way, the Civil War — especially the first three years — is rife with stories of decisive Union victory denied because they didn’t press a clear advantage. Ring the bell if you see any parallels.

    There is NOTHING suicidal or vainglorious about holding this line. There is a great deal of self-inflicted defeat on not holding it.

  • fortcollins

    The Supreme Court has eviscerated the Constitution. It has already been rewritten judicially. (Consider abortion, the near-elimination of the Second Amendment, what passes for speech, and ever-expanding federal powers in derogation of the Tenth Amendment.)

    The current administration has ignored the Constitution, using “Czars” and supposed regulatory authority to undermine it, while ramming home a health care monstrosity that may well be upheld by the Supremes. The Democrats and a majority of federal judges believe it is a “living document” that can be interpreted the way Humpty Dumpty asserted any word could be interpreted in Through the Looking Glass.

    A Con-Con would allow ordinary citizens to demand fidelity to our founding principles. Any crazy amendments that came from a Con-Con would need to be ratified by the states, and that simply wouldn’t happen. The states and citizens are much more conservative and stable than the mess inside the Beltway.

    It’s an issue that needs to be considered openly. Understand that I am not committed to a Con-Con. I believe it is a viable option to be considered.

  • acat

    It’s what I’d like to call a target-rich environment, except then I’d be accused of using “violent metaphors”, so I’ll just say there’s plenty of Dem skulls we should be burying under an avalanche of phone calls, faxes, e-mails, and letters. Metaphorically, of course.

    Mew

  • rowdydfw

    We sent them there to hold the line! And put a stop to the Obama agenda. That is a must do. Hold the line….

    And in the meantime for a little levity…

    Obama finally submitted his plan…we need to reduce the number of states from 57 to 50.

    :)

  • ghostship

    Obama and the Democrats are playing political chicken. The only thing the Republican have to do in order to win is not give up.

    “CC&B or Default”

    It will work if you have the courage to stand by your convictions.

  • sarg01

    Not the BBA (that’s more 2014), but everything short of it.

    Remember, the majority of what we want is to cut spending. Reconciliation applies to budgetary matters. That can all be passed 50+1. We need 55+ so that Snowe/Collins/Kirk/Brown/Murkowski can’t sink us. We don’t need 60.

    And with a big enough wave, 60 isn’t completely crazy, anyhow.

    The reason the Dems didn’t get what they wanted on O-care was the Republican leadership held the caucus together (giving kudos to Boehner/McConnell – horror!) and didn’t give the Dems a single vote. As such they had to individually pander to every Senate Dem, and a couple of them were bought-and-paid-for by Big Insurance.

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    If so, where, and what’s the strength of you local and county committees in terms of the percentage of slots being filled?

    If not, could you become one?

    Thank you.

    ColdWarrior

  • carolina

    Maybe plan A (CCB) that was moved to plan B will have to be brought back as plan A?

  • avgjo

    Take your pick of the 20+ dim senators up for reelection next year. Find the ten weakest. Run ads 24-7 blaming them for the coming worsening of the economy. Coordinate with the grassroots to protest and draw attention at the local level. Use modern marketing to construct a mental association in the minds of the state voters (of your target) between your target and economic destruction. Make it clear (at the gut-level) that all these problems begain in ’08 when Dem X came into office. Push the vote. Whichever of the 10 didn’t vote have just given you a whole slew of new ads.

    The dims do all kinds of dirty tricks to win. We don’t. We bring checkers to their chess. And we get our buttocks handed to us.

    Self-interest is a powerful thing. we should use it.

  • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

    I’d like to know who can be flipped, and how. I’d like to believe that CCB would somehow get past the Senate.

    I just don’t see it. If “CCB wont pass Senate; snowball’s chance in hell; over Reid’s dead body” is too pessimistic view of CCB’s chances in the Senate, tell us how it will get through.

    The disagreement between hold-the-line and accept-Boehner is really a different assessment of what happens going forward. This is chess – think a few steps ahead:

    “A vote to table without any publicity is hardly the same as a vote to kill the measure in a straight up on down vote.”
    Nope. It’s a ‘test vote’. Same thing as support. If any Dim Sen wanted it they would have voted NOT to table, so it could go through debate and a vote and passage.

    “Reid is so sure of his Senate support and loyalty”
    Reid WAS sure, that’s why he had the vote he had!

    ” then why not allow the vote and kill CCB right out.” He didn’t want to ‘waste time’ debating it. Debate and AMENDMENT. Reid wasnt and isnt afraid of CCB. He is afraid / was afraid of a reasonable compromise that COULD win Democrat votes via amendment. He also hated exposing Democrats to a bunch of ‘tough’ votes that the process could entail. That’s why. Reid is about protecting 2 things: Big Government and Democrat Senators.

    And because of that, CCB is dead-on-arrival in Reid’s Senate. Even if we go into default.

  • __t_i_m_o_t_h_y__

    Keep fighting the good fight Erick, I am with you.

  • GopTiger

    So all those Democrats up for re-election in 2012, huh?

    I’m curious, which one of these Democrats in the Senate has given even the tiniest statement of support for CCB.

    If CCB is so popular in Democratic ranks, surely one would have said something kind about it over the past two weeks.

    To answer your question, I have no idea why Harry Reid does what he does. But I do know a thing or two about politics and IF there was a major clamour for CCB in the Democratic Senate Caucus (as you suggest), then Reid would have brought it up for a vote.

    If I’m wrong, I’m sure one brave Democrat would have told at least one hometown paper, he or she disagreed with Reid’s maneuver.

    By the way, where has Manchin made such a statement?

  • lineholder

    It’s like looking at a scope of potential that exists inside who we are as a nation, and recognizing that there are those who are deliberately and intentionally doing everything they can to undermine that potential for purely political reasons and nothing more.

    When someone attempts to undermine that potential, do you just let them? NO. If someone tries to break your spirit, do you just give way at the drop of a hat? NO.

    You keep believing in that potential, no matter what, and you strive to move in the direction living up to that potential in every way you can.

  • http://dreamsfrommyforefathers.com RoguePolitics

    You are doing great.

    Of course we all know eventually we have to “give” the left something to get it through the senate but we control the conversation because THEY are the ones who WANT to spend.

    There is of course no reason to give them one more dime in spending than absolutely necessary. THAT is the BEST deal we can get and it should involve a prioritization bill at least. Given that we can then force a BBA in six months.

    You are right, this isn’t a game, the future of the Republic hangs in the balance.

    Keep up the fight.

  • ghostship

    5555

  • avgjo

    the same corrupt system which allowed this will somehow all of the sudden put on their Founders’ thinking caps on and do the right thing? We ordinary citizens have demanded all sorts of things, from fiscal responsibility to stopping Obamacare. Have they listened? And yet these will be the same sort of people (or the very same people) who would get their filthy paws on EVERY BIT of the constitution; what on earth makes you think they would listen to us? And do you trust the election process? Aside from the NE and Left Coast, the majority of whose citizenry has corrupt thought processes re: politics, Soros has his SOS project in 11 states of the heartland. Not to mention voter fraud, etc. Do you really want to risk the Bill of Rights or the first articles of the Constitution?

  • sarg01

    … the opposition wouldn’t prefer default to CCB.

    And the Dems certainly prefer default to a BBA, with the vast majority of them preferring it to CCB. A lot of these guys would drop kittens into wood chippers before agreeing to CCB.

  • runner12

    You are 100% correct on this one, Erick. Do not let anyone tell you any different.

    To all those who are clamoring for a Boehner plan I would say you will look foolish in the end. I know because I have been there.

    When Boehner came out last time with the compromise on the government shutdown, I cheered and applauded it on this site. I used all of the arguments some of you are stating now; that we did not have the Senate or the WH, that we could get all that we wanted, etc. I defended myself as ardently as you are doing now. I though those who disagreed with me were good souls, but misguided. Oh, how I patted myself on th back for being so wise, so savvy, so reasonable.

    Then I got the details and was stunned. I realized that all along the people who had disagreed with me were right. I had been duped and deluded and had to crawl back on here and eat all of my words. It was all a bunch of accounting gimmicks.

    From that point on I decided that I would never support another wishy-washy, non-specific plan again. I would not be made a fool of by the establishment Repubs anymore.

    Because of that experience, I will proudly join the ranks of those who say “Hold the line” without apology.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    I bet it would pass with more than just 4 Democratic Senators signing on to vote for it. A target-rich environment indeed!

  • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

    Reid’s opposition is actually another reason to go forward in the house:
    - Reid had earlier accepted it
    - we need to have more votes in the Senate and see where they stand.
    - High risk of Reid’s fake cuts plan passing.
    OTOH, it’s too stinky we will get 218 GOP no votes in House.

    I’d rate odds of going to next monday without a deal more than 50/50. Close to zero chance of deal if Boehner plan fails All paths except Boehner plan lead to default/shutdown.

  • lineholder

    Either they get dispirited and look in another direction OR their resolve hardens and those empty spots CW tells us about get filled up very, very quickly!!

    But I don’t know which it would be, and it could be different in one state than in another. Right now, believe it or not, NC probably would do the latter of the two. This state has started waking up and paying attention (finally!!)

  • GopTiger

    Wouldn’t the endeavor you have outlined make better sense and be a better use of our time that relentlessly torching John Boehner?

    Since these Judah Democrats would be inviting a primary challenger from their left, can you name the names of those Democrat Senators who are aching to be the pariahs of their party?

    Many of those 20 Senators are in reliably blue states who would be ending their careers by voting for CCB.

  • Jack_Savage

    Assuming you are on the inside as your post seems to claim, you act like it is courageous to negotiate with other people’s money and other people’s lives, call us “slacktivists”, then collect your check and slink back to your townhouse, rising again to compromise the next morning. The nation sent an overwhelming GOP majority to congress to do exactly what Erick is supporting.

    In order to deal with the utter, complete abdication of responsibility and reckless spending of the Democrats, there will be pain. I would rather bear that pain here and now than pass it along to my children in the name of “compromise” and “reality”,

    Maybe we should try doing the right thing once. This would be a really good opportunity.

  • Aaron Gardner

    How can you guarantee that supporting the compromise won’t, in fact, lose us seats?

    You can’t. This is what makes your argument crap. Also, if you think that Castle would have held the line then you are seriously misinformed.

  • acat

    It’s a lever, Paul.

    Manchin (W Va) is a very good possiblity – he ran as a blue-ish dog.

    Nelson in Florida is a maybe. Florida is full of old people who like their SS.

    Stabenow’s in trouble in MI if McCotter runs against her ..

    Klobuchar’s up for re-election in Minnesota, where Gov. Dayton just crapped the Dem bed.

    McCaskill’s up in Missouri, and her dynasty is falling apart while at the same time her State is economically a mess.

    Tester’s up in Montana. Montana’s interesting because of the bakken formation .. all that oil tied up by the EPA and other Fed agencies would be more available with the GOP in charge…. and it’s not all under North Dakota.

    Nelson’s up in Nebraska. Nelson’s the guy who sold out his State via the “cornhusker kickback” when Obamacare was implemented.

    Conrad’s up in North Dakota – see Tester above.

    Brown’s up in Ohio. I won’t miss him.

    Casey’s up in Pennsylvania, and Santorum’s donations for his POTUS run could be converted to a Senate re-match… one he’d likely win.

    Kohl’s up in Wisconsin. IIRC, he’s seeking retirement. Could be a “legacy” vote…

    That’s not the full list, but I doubt Feinstein or Menendez are likely to sway. Thing is, we don’t need all of ‘em.

    We just need to do to the Dems what they’ve done to us, with the Maine Twins and Sen. Brown’s votes. Split off just enough. Just 4 of the above, who will turn their coats long enough – like Collins and Snowe have done time and time again – to pass a bill their party don’t like.

    Mew

  • tea4me

    …in here knows. I agree with you 100% Erick. And i’ve spent the past week putting my money (and time) where my mouth is.

    NO COMPROMISE!

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    I never said that the Democrats clamored for it or even wanted it. I said if put on the spot and forced to vote for or against it then at least four would do so just for their own political survival.

    Check out the Manchin’s campaign press releases and his ad buys for his commitment to financial discipline.

  • traversecityconservative

    I would call a press conference and announce that they’ve come up with about four or five plans already and that the only plans the Dems have come up with are more spending, more taxes and more lies about cuts. I would say that the ONLY bill on the table is cut, cap & balance. Vote on it and sign it or default. At this point, default doesn’t look so bad to me. 40% cuts is fine by me.

  • acat

    I’ve laid out a target list of purple-state Dems who are up for re-election.

    Yes, some are going to be very tough. I left off California, I don’t see Feinstein leaving her Senate seat except feet first. Some bad crazy in CA.

    Mew

  • avgjo

    Either they face a primary challenge from their left or they get voted out. Helluva fix to be in. And you’re wrong about them being in reliably blue states. At best, many are in purplish states like Mo., Oh. ND, Fl and even in red states like Ne.

    It works out great for us. Either we peel off the four we need, and turn their party against them, or we have a nice big 2X4 to beat them over the head with in the next election and win anyway. At any rate, certainly not a wasted endeavor. I can tell you that the endeavour I outlined would make better sense than defending squishy RINOs and finding reasons we can’t win, though ; )

  • acat

    Not that I’m going to stop you, mind. Just sayin’

    Mew

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    Bravo acat!

  • lineholder

    Regardless of who or what anyone else might think. And it would be consistent with the character of this particular admin to string everyone along for the ride just to give him cover.

  • snowshooze

    Is to examine where the courts went wrong and overturn their decisions.
    But that is now an entire card castle… beyond my powers of imagination.

  • kinggold

    Everyone is to the right of those two fairweather friends. Ergo, Castle would have voted for it.

    I’m really tired of vague generalizations about future voting patterns simply because people don’t think they’ll sync up with some imagined orthodoxy. It’s patently unfair and it’s the same kind of behavior we disparage on the right.

    And, for the record, Coons has been voting in lockstep with Reid in favor of more taxes.

  • sarg01

    If they won’t support it on a motion to table, why would we expect them to support it for final passage?

    I’m pretty sure Kerry showed them how well “I was for it before I was against it” worked – does anyone really think the reverse will play better

    Reid tabled it because why take an unpopular vote if you don’t HAVE to? It doesn’t mean he thought he wouldn’t win.

  • grumpy_old_soldier

    When the Confederate Army was getting the hell beat out of it on Henry House Hill at First Manassas, Confederate General Bee said “There is Jackson standing like a stone wall. Let us determine to die here, and we will conquer. Rally behind the Virginians.”

    I am one American, shoulder to shoulder, with you, sir! I wish I could do more. We need to hold the line.

  • http://www.soitgoesintexas.blogspot.com Shannon Work

    I have a feeling there are many more RedState readers who support your position than don’t.

    We MUST nominate a real conservative for 2012. Moderates get us nowhere.

  • http://www.sheetanchor.org Sheet Anchor

    this President from dismantling our country. They have sufficient power in the House to hold the line. If the President wants to default, let him. Yes, I will risk it. Sometimes you need to risk everything, because you are right; and we are right in holding the line now.

    The President will retreat, when he is made to realize we will never waver. He keeps thinking that we will waver. It is time to deliver a different message. We sent the new House members to hold the line, and to do it now. Tell Reid to bring up CCB for another vote in the Senate; and that there is nothing else to talk about. This nation is divided; we are in a civil war; and compromise leads to more failure.

    Let’s see how much courage the Democrats have for a change. Let’s see how many Democrats in the Senate will risk default and their own elections. Let’s see if Ben Nelson, and McCaskill have the courage of their convictions to let the country default by maintaining their votes against CCB. Send them a balanced budget amendment, and let’s see them ignore it. There are plenty of things Republicans can do to attack in this fight. The people of this nation are behind CCB and the BBA. Put the pressure on the Democrats and the President. Send them bill after bill, after bill.

    Republicans need to get back on the offensive, and stay there!

  • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

    Wisconsin, huh…. That was/is a Republican chief executive and a Republican House AND a Republican Senate, and they are kicking butt. Yes, that would be a joyful experience compared with a Democrat Governor, eg Minnesota. Or the worse experience of an all-Democrat state govt (California) passing left-loonie bills. But STILL in Wisc. they had a huge sturm-und-drang soap opera to get reforms done.

    In DC, we only control one of three key power centers. Our main power is the power of “NO”. Contrary to the kook-aid drinking, we cannot and will not force real, major, positive reforms, either BBA or otherwise. The Democrats will not vote for them.

    What we CAN do, now, is stop the spending. We can say no to more spending and when Democrats ask for more spending, say …. “NO”.

    Anything beyond that is a negotiation, and negotiation implies compromise, and compromise implies getting less than what you really want.

    So, yes, hold the line on things you have the power and leverage to hold on to. But don’t expect to get the real reform we want, when that requires control over more than 1/2 of the legislative branch.

  • GopTiger

    Erik knows CCB is dead. He’s isn’t unhinged. He knows this.

    Erick also knows Redstate is small player in GOP politics. He is maneuvering to make sure there is no deal-that no GOP led compromise has a chance of actually being supported by the rank and file.Thus, no deal.

    Erik also knows that Obama is going to raise the debt ceiling unilaterally if there is no deal. This action would be a huge political win for the GOP as it pivots to 2012.

    Erik is simply doing his part to make sure this happens. And riling the base about standing firm, and holding the line, etc. is part of that process.

    Of course, he will deny it. But that is the calculation.

  • acat

    I won’t take your bet as we’d both want to be on the same side.

    Maybe Paul would be willing to cover the other side?

    The usual wager? $10 donated by the loser to the campaign or charity of the winner?

    Mew

  • snowshooze

    That comes up a lot.
    Believe me, a lot of people have died on a lot of hills, and they are heros. At least the ones that died on our hills.
    So… if we lost every single conservative congressman, but won a balanced budget and blocked the debt ceiling hike…Obama wins the election..
    Would it have been worth it?
    I think it would save the country.

  • Dan Perrin

    n/t

  • http://www.gopmall.com janesmoote

    “Keep fighting the good fight Erick, I am with you.

    Erick, you are not alone in your frustration

    I have a feeling there are many more RedState readers who support your position than don?t.

    We MUST nominate a real conservative for 2012. Moderates get us nowhere.”

  • Jack_Savage

    As a recommended diary has noted, I believe we should pass the Krauthammer plan, then go home. Let the Democrats twist in the wind and let Obama veto it. It solves the problem.

    I have never seen such a strong political hand misplayed so poorly. I am so d*mn tired of the same Wall Street jerk offs who nearly brought us to ruin three years ago offering advice on what to do now. They can all go straight to hell, and if they want any food they can catch it or kill it like I am prepared to do. I am sick of people who should know better who are listening to Wall Street and trembling in fear of a President and a Senate leader who are as stupid as the day is long.

    If we had a leader who could put two sentences together, here is what they should say every time a microphone is put in its place:

    1) Democrats spent us into this mess, and there is more to come with Obama Care.
    2) The House passed a bill that solves the problem.
    3) The Democrat led Senate hasn’t passed a budget in 2 1/2 years, so if they are unable to tie their shoes on this issue, don’t blame us.
    4) Barack Obama is in over his head and always has been. He barely even knows what the issue is. He is most helpful when he is out playing golf.
    5) We are going home to try and explain to our constituents that this is what happens when Democrats are in control of anything.
    6) Good night.

    Keep it up, Erick.

  • gekster

    from:
    http://www.congresslink.org/print_basics_senaterules.htm

    excerpt:
    There is one partial exception to this generalization. The Senate often disposes of an amendment by agreeing to a motion to lay the amendment on the table. When a Senator who has been recognized makes this motion, it cannot be debated (except by unanimous consent, of course). And if the Senate agrees to the motion to table, the amendment is rejected; to table is to kill. On the other hand, if the Senate defeats the motion, debate on the amendment may resume; the Senate only has determined that it is not prepared at that time to reject the amendment. Thus, a tabling motion can be used to stop debate even if there still are Senators wishing to speak, but only by defeating the amendment at issue. Although the effect of the motion is essentially negative, it frequently is a test vote on Senate support for an amendment. If the motion fails, the Senate may agree to the amendment shortly thereafter.

    As I see it, you both can make your claims, if you squint hard enough. ;)

  • lineholder

    in Obama’s speech last night, the WH has come out with a statement that Boehner’s plan will be vetoed if it reaches the President’s desk. So much for presenting himself as the “moderate, reasonable adult in the room!

    http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/26/white-house-issues-veto-threat-to-boehner-plan/

  • sarg01

    Conrad’s retiring. And he’s the Budget Chairman, so the Reid plan is basically the Conrad plan.

    All your close election plays (McCaskill, Tester, Klob) will actually be driven into the hands of the big donors/party contributions. They need to prove how “pure” they are. They’ve been screwing their constituents over for years, one policy vote won’t save any of them. But a vote that costs them party/donor money might sink them.

    Casey, Kohl and especially Brown are big-time liberals. Casey likes to hid it by feigning to be anti-gun-control and anti-abortion. But he pretends to be social conservative precisely so he can get away with being left of his state.

    Nelson and Manchin are the only two Dems who I think would ever be willing to vote for CCB.

  • Jack_Savage

    Just sack up and say it, pal.

  • http://dreamsfrommyforefathers.com RoguePolitics

    Let’s do it now.

  • Matt In The Hook

    The Founders were patient with tyranny for almost a decade. And the Constitution was a gigantic compromise between several factions. The way in which they got the Constitution ratified included a ton of arm-twisting in each state legislature as well.

    Sure they were idealists on self-governance but when they achieved that position of power they were also plenty realistic.

  • kinggold

    there’s absolutely nothing stopping the newly re-energized Democrats from destroying everything we worked to build in one fell swoop. And there’s no way we’re getting 65 votes for a BBA in this Senate. No chance, Lance.

    “Saving the country” for a year and a half is totally unacceptable in my view. That is punting.

  • http://dreamsfrommyforefathers.com RoguePolitics

    Just because history tends to repeat itself doesn’t mean it has to.

  • GopTiger

    Fine list, acat, but giving me a list of names of Democratic Senators from red and purple states who are up for re-election is NOT a list of name of Democratic Senators who have in anyway indicated they might be open to CCB.

    In order to get re-elected, they must first survive a primary challenge which they would undoubtedly get if they stabbed President Affirmative Action in the back.

    Can you give us even one link-JUST ONE-in which any of the above named Democratic Senators has stated anything positive about CCB?

    Just one…

    I would seriously like to see.

  • avgjo

    a speechwriter.

    That was excellent!

  • Bill S

    I am picturing Erick as Gandalf here:

    He may get yanked down into the abyss by the glowing whip of the Democrite party, but he will come back even more powerful in the end and he/we will be victorious over the party of Obama/Sauron and the Democrats/Orcs in the Senate and House

  • gekster

    If you look in the dictionary under “concern troll’, I think it has a picture of him.

  • lineholder

    Or maybe an “anti-integrity” thing. Or even an “old guard superiority” thing. They’ve been crawling out of the wood work on RS for the past few days. Big time.

  • http://www.sheetanchor.org Sheet Anchor

    you are already called them, then call your friends and ask them to call them. Allen West signed on to Boehner’s debt deal. I hope you all in his district will let him know that we didn’t help elect him and others to compromise in this fight.

    Boehner’s deal only has promised cuts – nothing now that is of any real consequence. Compromising for nothing of value must end.

  • lineholder

    .

  • kinggold

    No, not in the slightest. Not unless the condition exists that Mr. Erickson’s bad endorsees = the tea party. Because I certainly believe that the Buckley rule should take precedence.

    I don’t care how conservative a candidate we nominate. If they don’t win, they’re no use to anyone. I’m all about moving the Senate rightward, but I am not in favor of nominating political fools, lying thieves, and certified cranks to make a point about alleged RINOism.

    I don’t particularly care if I’m smeared as some sort of “establishment Republican” who’s on the cocktail party circuit or something. But I saw a slate of strong conservatives get thumped in key races, and we left so much on the table that frankly it should insult our intelligence that Mr. Erickson is demanding so much with what little we’ve gained.

  • Jack_Savage

    Then go to cocktail parties and brag about what good poker players and deal makers they are.

  • fortcollins

    The states would control both the call for a Con-Con and ratification of any proposed amendments. Nothing in Article 5 mandates election of delegates. Historically, delegates were selected, rather than elected. Right now, more state Legislatures and Governorships are held by conservatives than by the “They” you have described. States, rather than Congress, could give directions to the delegates to a Con-Con.

    The 2010 election results and Tea Party movement have demonstrated the ability of ordinary citizens to alter the government. Polls reliably show strong and rising majorities supporting gun rights, defending marriage, and affirming the sanctity of life. The people are at odds with the politicians. Shouldn’t we trust the people more? And if they people cannot be trusted, what is left?

    One example of the ability of people to alter the Constitution is the lengthy process that resulted in ratification of the Twenty-Seventh Amendment nearly two centuries after it was proposed. Congress feared an unratified amendment little. The politicians forgot it existed. But the people remembered, and made a difference.

  • rightwardmarch

    Reminds me of this one guy’s speeches…

    I?m getting beat to hell and back…I?m getting accused…I?ve said all along I expect a deal…I need you to understand…I worked to send people to Washington, DC…I know the credit rating is going to be downgraded

    This one got personal on you Erick, and conservative governance should never be personal.

  • avgjo

    them from everyone else. It is the heart of American exceptionalism. That’s all I was referring to.

  • GopTiger

    I think Obama was angling for a shutdown a month ago.

    But some one (probably the Goldman Sachs crowd) got to him. There will be no shutdown/no default. There is a Fox story to that effect published today.

    He is going to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling, unless the Boehner plan (or some version of it) passes the House and Senate and lands on his desk. If that happens, he may sign it.

    I guess it will depend on how his bruised ego is feeling on that particular day.

  • notpropagandized

    Hey, the heat is on. Rewarm CutCapBalance and resend to HarryReid. It raises debt ceiling like they want to do. Change something around in it to make it new. Send it again!

  • Jack_Savage

    Moderates are no use to anyone, win or lose, because of situations exactly like the one we find ourselves in.

    Either conservatism is right, and the results of its implementation will win the day, or it is wrong. I believe it is right. Period.

  • snowshooze

    But it is the thought that counts.
    If this battle isn’t worth fighting…
    What battle might we be willing to take up?

  • snowshooze

    But it is the thought that counts.
    If this battle isn’t worth fighting…
    What battle might we be willing to take up?

  • sarg01

    I think it was running Dole that led to those outcomes.

    Obama didn’t turn right like Clinton after getting “shellacked”. If anything, he turned left.

    Limit the damage, sweep 2012, end 70 years of government expansion.

    Insisting on CCB is weakening Boehner’s negotiating position and we’re going to end up with a more Dem-favorable compromise as a result. That’s why Cantor and Ryan are backing Boehner.

  • avgjo

    Idealism and reality do connect, if not in imperfect ways, still the ideal guides the reality so much better than merely going with the sensible. Consider for instance circles and the various formulae used to measure them. By considering the ideal, the formulae are derived; despite the fact that there are no perfect circles in physical reality, the formulae remain extremely useful, more than, for instance, trying to measure the area or circumference of every circle you meet without a formula. This illustrates the relationship between the idealism of the Founders and what they wrought. Obviously, I didn’t mean that they were perfect, or that they implemented their ideals perfectly, but they were guided by an ideal and that’s what made their achievements more than just run-of-the-mill.

  • Viator

    A $3 trillion cut is actually a $7 trillion increase.

    I caught Senator Rand Paul talking on the radio this morning and he pointed out an important fact. We all must remember that any cuts mentioned by the President or congressional leaders are taken from a baseline budget. Now we plain speaking folks think a cut is a cut. You cut $3 from an amount and you end up with $3 less, right? Not in Washington, DC. The baseline budget being used in Washington, DC as we speak calls for +$10 trillion increase over ten years. So the if the Boehner plan, for instance, calls for $3 trillion in cuts what we actually talking about is cutting $3 trillion from a $10 trillion increase. Or, putting it another way, they are cutting a $10 trillion increase to a $7 trillion increase. So a $3 trillion cut is actually a $7 trillion increase.

    http://paul.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=258

  • deltazelda

    Establishment Republicans still haven’t gotten the message, and they have no idea of how angry we are. Mine has always been a self-supporting family. But if these weak-minded and cowardly Repubs cave in on the debt ceiling, we are going to help throw out the “conservatives” and elect Dems. We will become parasites and let those who work support us.

  • Bill S

    Last time around, $100B in “cuts” disintegrated into $500M of nothing.

    Fool me once…

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    Of course none have openly supported CCB. None may even wanted it. The question is how they would vote if they had to vote.

    Stop shifting the goalposts. acat gave you what you wanted. Thank him and move along.

  • GopTiger

    Come on, Kipling.

    They ALL say they are for fiscal responsibility.

    That is a far cry from actually voting against your own party and your own president on the most continious vote of the year.

    Every Democrat can and will simply say they supported the President’s fictional 3-1 plan deficit reduction plan.

  • lineholder

    call me crazy if you will, but I think it runs more along the lines of “infiltrate, undermine, divide then conquer”.

    Which makes it even more important to hold the line now, because if that is what is going on…someone is afraid we’ll succeed!

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    So basically your argument is that Erik is lying to us here at RedState and playing us all for saps. As evidence you offer his potential denial of the charge.

    Conspiracy theorist or nut?

  • gekster

    Did HuffPo boot you out, or are you just lost, or maybe both.
    And I have read alot of your posts, and lost would be more like it.

  • sarg01

    The RINO moderates voted unanimously for CCB. The “conservative” Dems voted unanimously to table it.

    Same with Obamacare. Same with card check.

    I’ll agree that ultimately we need more conservatives and libertarians and fewer mods, but I’ll take a RINOy Scott Brown from Massachusetts over a ultra-lefty John Kerry any day of the week.

  • kinggold

    That would be the one after Obama has been thrown from office. The one in which we hold the levers of power and can enact meaningful change.

    The Ryan budget, meaningful entitlement reform, shuttering a department or two. Real action to rein in this beast of a government. This is simply not something we can accomplish right now.

  • clarioncaller

    Get all over your representative.Boehner’s new plan is a sell out to Conservative Republicans and the American people who sent them in November 2010.The Cut,Cap, Spend bill passed a week ago is the only plan that avoids a credit downgrade.This struggle is a litmus test for who should be in Republican leadership…and congress after 2012.

  • lineholder

    Do you have evidence to back up that claim? Because there isn’t a person on this site who has been associated with it for any length of time that is going to take your speculation over what we know to about Erick’s character. No one.

  • GopTiger

    Nice try.

    I didn’t ask for a list of Democrats we would like to magically think secretly want to pass CCB if only that meanie Harry Reid would let them.

    I asked for a list of “brave souls” who would actually play Judas to the Secular Messiah.

    Considering most of these people voted for Obamacare (have you forgotten that), I don’t consider them the be paragons of bravery willing to withstand the barrage of leftist hatred they would get if they “betrayed” Obama.

    But I will wait for that link of even one of those Senators who said they might consider voting for CCB.

    When a person gives you a list of potential converts, it is his or her responsibilty to provide at least a scintilla of evidence supporting that claim. None-ZIP- has been provided.

    I’ve yet to see even a microscopic bit of evidence than any of the Senators listed above are willing to be one of those 4 “brave souls”.

    My goalposts remain where they were to begin with.

  • snowshooze

    Even if there were a short term default…any Banker could identify a re-organization . With guarantees… look at the Civil War, there was ( I’ll be danged..) a formal statement, agreement… we would pay our tab.
    I wonder what Moodys had to say…
    But anyway, better than following the current path, the Bankers respect a good business plan. A real one.

  • avgjo

    If a General Convention were to take place for the avowed and sole purpose of revising the Constitution, it would naturally consider itself as having a greater latitude than the Congress…. It would consequently give greater agitation to the public mind; an election into it would be courted by the most violent partisans on both sides … [and] would no doubt contain individuals of insidious views, who, under the mask of seeking alterations popular in some parts … might have the dangerous opportunity of sapping the very foundations of the fabric…. Having witnessed the difficulties and dangers experienced by the first Convention, which assembled under every propitious circumstance, I should tremble for the result of a second, meeting in the present temper in America. [From a letter by James Madison to G.L. Turberville, November 2, 1788.]

    The ‘present temper’ in America. That was the founding generation. THE FOUNDING GENERATION.

    I have already pointed out the dangers of leaving it to a vote of the people. I suppose this could go on like every other discussion of this sort I’ve had, so I’ll just stop. good day.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    He promised fiscal responsibility. He took a gun and shot the EPA regulations. He spoke out against Obamacare. He did everything but switch parties.

    Manchin can say anything he wants and will. We have to fight and hold them accountable. Not give them a free pass and whine about it.

  • fortcollins

    snowshooze and avgjo, we may have different views of remedies, but in the spirit of compromise, I think we agree on a few things:
    + The courts are a mess.
    + The politicians are a mess.
    + The Constitution matters.
    + America matters.
    + Something has to change. (A lot of somethings, actually.)

    Maybe 2012 and 2014 will produce huge victories that will fix the problems more directly. But at least keep the other option in mind.

  • snowshooze

    Wellllllll……
    Then we all done here.
    I’ll just pack up the kids, fishing poles and head on down the road.
    I know someday.. the sun will shine on fixing the mess. “till then…
    See ya in 2016!!!

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    Please stop parsing your words. acat has graciously provided you with what you asked. I have answered your questions.

    Obamacare came with a huge price for the Dems. My argument is that these guys are not brave souls but will rather do anything to get re-elected.

  • Vegas_Rick

    If not now, when? If not the economic survival of our nation, then on what issue is it deemed appropriate to take a stand? Obama’s intentions as to “social justice” and the means of achieving it are clear. Those policies are, and will continue to destroy the economic foundation of the country. This new House “bill” does nothing to inhibit Obama’s agenda. NOTHING!

    I say stand now or prepare for the fall.

  • Right Reason

    The debt is over $14 trillion! You think it’s an accomplishement that the GOP can make it go up a little slower?!!

  • kinggold

    That might help. That’s certainly my plan of action.

  • loganyung

    The point was that the scare tactics being put out by the left are starting to fall on deaf ears, as people are starting to see reality in places like Wisconsin.

    If not now, when?

  • avgjo

    Good night.

  • amigag

    First of all, thank you Erick for all you do. If it wasn’t for the clarity you bring to this issue, no one would be able to see the forest for the trees.

    Any thread on Redstate will have many comments. It is very easy to read them and separate the wheat from the chaff. The wheat is the Conservative and the chaff are not. Disregard the chaff, as I’m sure most Conservatives do. An easy way to tell, is the chaff are full of confusion and make no sense. The Conservatives are clear, concise and right on target.

    Evil is easy to spot, it’s opposite of all that is good and right, no matter the name they attach to themselves. And it never makes sense!!

    Keep your chin up and do the same no matter where the chaff comes from!!

    I’m sure many Conservatives could make a list of the chaff on this thread and many others. I know I could:-)

  • jerry39

    nt. Last time I defend a Speaker who cant hold back the tears. Perhaps it was the sign of weakness we pretended it wasn’t.

  • Vegas_Rick

    Someone up-thread called standing on principle “impertinent intransigence.”

    What kind of elitist defeatist BS is that?

  • Aaron Gardner

    Thanks for playing.

  • GopTiger

    I think Erik would prefer the Senate to pass CCB and Obama would sign it. I don’t doubt that at all.

    But what I am saying is that Erik does realize the chances of the Senate passing this are slim to none.

    Instead of seeing Boehner and McConnell cut a -what he would view- bad deal with Obama, I bet Erik would prefer NO DEAL.

    I’m sure Erik is aware of what most likely happens if there is NO DEAL.

    And I am sure he is smart enough to weigh the political consequences of that situation.

    So, for Erick its easy.

    Either we win because the Senate Democrats and Obama fold and pass CCB (a big loser for Obama) or Obama acts unilaterally (a bigger loser for Obama).

    I’m sure he would prefer the former, but has already calculated the later.

  • gekster

    With real things in it to get real things done.

  • Right Reason

    when the poster’s profiles showed their time at RedState. I’m betting there’s a fair number of the compromisers who got here just in time for this particular discussion.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    If the Boehner Plan passes then several things will happen:

    1. The credit rating will be downgraded and the Democrats and Obama will blame the Boehner Plan. The media will echo the blame and that will be the narrative for the next year.

    2. Taxes will go up because the select committee will raise those taxes.

    3. Spending will continue to increase.

    4. Everything Boehner promised will not happen and it will be an epic fail for the Republicans.

    When all of that happens, I expect Boehner and the leadership to resign in disgrace for leading us into the abyss. I also expect all the pro-Boehner people here at RedState to publicly post an apology to Erik and the rest.

  • snowshooze

    That sounds good, and the weather forcast is great.
    But today, we have a bit of a problem. So let me introduce to you, the 500 year plan.
    Right.
    How about we just take the bull by the horns.. and do the deal?
    BBA and no more credit…
    Whatever happened to Paygo???
    Otherwize, we are on the same page.

  • amigag

    Well, you’ll get NO votes if you don’t try!! The same could have been said for the CCB. We didn’t even get a chance to get a vote in the Senate, since Reid tabled it.

    Nothing ventured, nothing gained………

    Don’t be so negative, it’s depressing.

  • sarg01

    It’s like saying it’s better for your credit score to have a bankruptcy than high credit balances. It might be better for your long-term financial health, but there’s not a chance it’s better for your creditworthiness.

  • kinggold

    What, that I don’t approve of crappy candidates chosen for the wrong reasons, like those who tell easily-exposed lies and steal from their campaign contributors? Or those who have so thoroughly alienated their own people that they couldn’t hope to win?

    Or are you seriously subscribing to the notion that I’m some kind of defeatist or infiltrator and my sure-fire strategy is to rabble-rouse in blog comments?

  • lineholder

    I don’t know what it is you’re trying to accomplish, but if you think you can march your butt up into this website and attack Erick’s character without being called on it, you’re wrong. I’ll call you on it right now! Don’t you dare imply that he is so ruthlessly calculating and deceitful that he would even remotely consider putting our entire nation at risk to play some stupid, mindless game of politics!

    That is not the kind of man that Erick is, got it?

  • sarg01

    … they can win in 2012 and cut on their own terms without needing Reid and Obama.

  • GopTiger

    With all due respect, if they wouldn’t buck Obama on Obamacare (despite the polls),they are not going to buck him on CCB.

    Considering what happened to Bennett in Utah, everybody has figured out you don’t alienate your base, especially before re-election.

  • snowshooze

    But CCB —–IS—– a compromise. And a pretty darned reasonable one, Gekster. And it has a chance of actually working, which none of the other plans do.
    I’d like to get my hands around the throat of the idiot that requested a plan from the Democrats…
    CCB IS the compromise, and Boehner threw it out the window.

  • bk

    on his bill to increase the debt limit with nothing but pretend cuts is to wait until he hopes the Boehner bill fails. Then he’ll let his loose as the only choice for the non-TeaThuglicans to support.

    You know what a total joke his bill is when he and Obama hope that the GOP will cave and vote for his “plan” because they’ll be too scared to vote no on it after the Dems have demagogued and shot down plan after plan after plan.

    If Boehner loses this vote, will the same Republicans who voted for it vote against the Reid plan? That becomes the question if this fails.

  • gekster

    And you will have to back up your assertions in your first.

  • Aaron Gardner

    The stupid cases against O’Donnell were thrown out. Too bad a lot of bitter idiots like yourself decided to crucify her with zero facts.

    Sen Coons appreciates your help.

  • z06gal

    With you ALL THE WAY Erick. Obamacare alone is killing us and the GOP leadership simply will not fight for us on that issue alone. To hell with what Obama wants. Why compromise with the same person who has quadrupled the debt in 2.5 yrs and destroyed the private sector?? I am beyond sick of the RINO leadership. We need somebody who isn’t afraid of what somebody might say or think and get the dang job done. I cannot believe 54 million people fell for this idiot. GOP needs to get a spine about them from somewhere.

  • snowshooze

    And I have a lot of friends that are artist’s , school teachers and government employees.
    It doesn’t always go well.
    In fact, it nearly never goes well.

  • kinggold

    …all of the mistakes we made in haste in 2010. Another time perhaps. You want to talk, I’ll talk.

    But why should Senator Coons be thanking me? You gave him the easiest opponent he could ask for.

  • http://online.logcabin.org/about/ suzieQ

    Michelle Bachmann (who is my top pick for our next president) has already taken a stand saying she will not vote to raise the debt ceiling under any circumstance. Other representatives have stated the same. Other commenters here at RS have also stated this.

    There is no reason to raise the limit on the government’s creedit card. They will just SPEND more and more. Pass the CCB. Pass the BBA. But don’t raise the debt ceiling!

    http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/polinaut/archive/2011/07/analyst_bachman.shtml

    “This is a misnomer, that I believe that the president and treasury secretary have been trying to pass off on the American people and it’s this,” Bachmann, who’s also running for the Republican presidential nomination, said. “If Congress fails to raise the debt ceiling by $2.5 trillion that somehow the United States will go into default and we will lose the full faith and credit of the United States. That is simply not true.”

  • http://online.logcabin.org/about/ suzieQ

    Michelle Bachmann (who is my top pick for our next president) has already taken a stand saying she will not vote to raise the debt ceiling under any circumstance. Other representatives have stated the same. Other commenters here at RS have also stated this.

    There is no reason to raise the limit on the government’s creedit card. They will just SPEND more and more. Pass the CCB. Pass the BBA. But don’t raise the debt ceiling!

    http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/polinaut/archive/2011/07/analyst_bachman.shtml

    “This is a misnomer, that I believe that the president and treasury secretary have been trying to pass off on the American people and it’s this,” Bachmann, who’s also running for the Republican presidential nomination, said. “If Congress fails to raise the debt ceiling by $2.5 trillion that somehow the United States will go into default and we will lose the full faith and credit of the United States. That is simply not true.”

  • snowshooze

    Chapter 7. 11 or 13?

  • Bill S

    I suggest next time you keep your thoughts to yourself unless you have evidence for accusing someone of willful deceit.

  • bk

    No matter what passes and what happens, anything bad will be blamed on the GOP and anything good will be credited to Obama. That’s a given.

  • gekster

    he should have passed it again, and kept it up until the Senate voted on it in an up or down vote.
    He didn’t throw it out the window, per se, but abandoned it.
    Shame on him.

  • Aaron Gardner

    And lying about O’Donnell did help Coons win. You should be proud of yourself. I assume this isn’t the first time you have helped a Marxist.

  • Bill S

    A) Boehner won’t resign. He didn’t resign the last time he lied about a bill that supposedly cut the budget
    B) You won’t hear a single apology either.

  • sarg01

    It’s a complete yawner. There’s nothing sound-bitey in it at all. Moody’s changing AAA into AA will get one day of press, plus one day of press when the market reacts.

    Do discussions of marginal interest rates sell any newspapers? Apart from the Wall Street Journal, of course.

    Reps have the perfect defense to any charges – that’s Obama’s signature on the deal, right?

    OMG DEBT CRISIS: WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE is the kind of story the media likes. The media is rooting for a shutdown so they can blame Republicans for the economy. Plus, they get to run story after story about this one family who can’t get XYZ service and here’s all the bad things that happen to them as a result.

    Worst-case scenario, anything bad that happens will be blamed on the Reps. Normally, authorities have to answer unpleasant questions about anything bad that happens. In this case, however, the local ATF or NTSB or FBI Director simply says “its not because we’re incompetent. It’s because Congress cut our funding”

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    If the GOP loses the debt ceiling fight and fails to deliver on their promises from 2010, what makes some of you think we will win in 2012?

    What is the reason to vote GOP if they are just a scaled down version of the Democratic party and the leadership refuses to deal with the problem?

    We controlled both Houses of Congress and the White House during the early Bush years. I don’t remember us making any major conservative gains then. Why would it be different now, especially if the GOP still lack guts?

  • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

    1) Credit Rating downgrade is already baked in to the Obama plan. If February, Obama released his FY 2012 budget. It projected deficit spending as far as the eye can see, spending NEVER GOING BELOW 22% of GDP, and our debt going to 300% of GDP in several decades. Our path Greece-like status was baked in.
    The ONLY credible way to get Republicans on the hook for a downgrade is if the GOP gets blamed for the US going into default. This is possible IF Boehner’s plan fails and the Dems use that narrative as a ‘see, the Republican

    2) Commitees propose. The GOP House WILL dispose of any tax increase.
    3) Spending will increase? We can take a bite at that in the budget and appropriations process. Another chance in FY 2012.
    4) Boehner bill promises so little, it will cut some spending, puts ceiling on spending well below the Obama level, get a Balanced Budget Amendment vote, and has a process for more spending cuts down the road.

    Boehner is correct that this is CCB framework. It’s a watered down CCB. Is that why the CCB ‘hold the line’ dont like it? What I don’t like is why CCB and Ryan are watered down from the $10 trillion we REALLY need to cut from the Obama budget. We are arguing over whether we should demand 20% of what we need, or do we compromise and only demand 10%.

    Whatever. We are STILL in the world of unreal ‘cuts’ due to Obama’s absurd over-spending budget that ‘baselines’ an extra $10 trillion in spending. Anything less than $10 trillion in 10 years is too much spending.

  • kellymch

    Erick.

    Kelly from Georgia

  • GopTiger

    You must not have read the post very carefully.

    I’m sure Erick doers favor CCB and geniunely believes (as do I) that its the best plan suggested so far.

    I also believe Erik knows in his heart of hearts it wont pass the Senate.
    And he would rather Boehner and McConnell pass nothing than cave to Obama.

    And, like anybody else involved with politics, he has thought about the potential consequences of no plan.

    Faced with two choices bad choices- a Boehner led compromise or Obama acting unilaterally- I think Erick would prefer the second option than see the GOP compromise.

    That’s not “character assassination”. That’s realpolitik.

  • http://www.sheetanchor.org Sheet Anchor

    supports Boehner’s debt deal.

    Is there any backbone left? Are they really this afraid of President Obama?

    http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/26/paul-ryan-i-reluctantly-support-boehners-plan/

  • drivlikejehu

    You can’t get a favorable compromise from a position of weakness. At the extreme minimum, Republicans should have pretended to have courage. Even that was too much for them.

    What will really happen if the GOP sweeps in 2012? Obamacare is so unpopular much of it would probably be repealed, though not all. But what else? Between Democrat filibusters and “moderate” Republicans, not too much. McConnell will surrender just as happily in the majority, and Boehner will just as happily go along.

    A lot of people just don’t want to face reality. They mean well but feel more comfortable with their heads in the sand. It’s quite evident in the comments here and of course on the Hill. Some people just aren’t wired to fight back and will always choose surrender, because they convince themselves it’s only a temporary retreat. Deep down, they know better.

  • Matt In The Hook

    O’Donnell had zero chance in a solidly blue state. Castle was almost a shoe in to win and would probably have fallen in line on CCB. If the Maine sisters are on board, you have to think Castle would too.

    It was a massive error to nominate her along with Angle. Not that rectifying those errors would have given us a majority, it wouldn’t. I guess the good news is that we have Majority Leader Reid instead of Schumer.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    I agree completely.

    I expect that my expectations will not be met.

    Boehner and his supporters will create a debacle and then move on to create another one – just like they have done before. How many until someone finally calls for their resignation?

    I would have loved it if Rush has simply asked Boehner if he would resign if everything he promised with his plan did not come to pass.

  • drothgery

    Can pass a Dem senate, or get Obama’s signature. That’s reality. The goals here avoiding default, electing a new Senate and President in 2012, and fixing things then (and even then, CCB is probably overly ambitious — there will still be 40+ Dem senators, and they will filibuster CCB).

  • http://www.neoavatara.com/blog neoavatara

    If our goal is to stand and fight, and lose in 2012, great.

    If our goal is actually get this country to the road to fiscal sanity, we have to retake the White House and the Senate. These Democrats are never, ever going to pass CCB. They are INTRANSIGENT. They don’t care about our credit rating or our economy. Does anybody doubt they would rather have 20% unemployment than giving up on Medicare and Social Security?

    We won this fight ideologically, but we need to win at the ballot box to make the ultimate difference. I am not sure holding the line gets us there. Ideologically, I agree with Erick. Practically, I am not so sure.

  • http://dreamsfrommyforefathers.com RoguePolitics

    And he may not have helped in congressional races.
    He was the establishment choice just as now the establishment chooses to fold. The establishment screwed us then just as it is trying to do now.

    What Dole represented was business as usual.
    If Boehner caves it is business as usual.

    Boehner’s plan means $24T instead of $25T in debt.
    I fail to see why that is worth fighting for. We are bankrupt either way.

  • kinggold

    …she wouldn’t have lost because of a few “lies.” That’s delusion if I’ve ever seen it.

    For the record, there are documented FEC violations from her 2008 campaign in which she misappropriated campaign funds. A race, by the way, whose outcome she continually lied about.

    She was a very bad candidate. That you defend her with such vigor says far more about you than about her or me.

  • drothgery

    And barring a radical change in who’s in what party, it’s always going to be us. That sucks, but it’s the world we live in.

  • msctex

    . . .with someone or thing which would do you harm.

    It may look like a Compromise, and without a doubt the other party would love to pretend it qualifies as such.

    But it is only a Concession, and can only do damage. Nothing more, nothing less.

  • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

    “Obamacare alone is killing us and the GOP leadership simply will not fight for us on that issue alone. ”

    OK, but we are holding a line – CCB – that didn’t defund Obamacare either.

    “get the dang job done”
    please define what the job is. If the job is “Make the President be a fiscal conservative” that is an impossibility.

    If the job is defund/repeal Obamacare, fine, but we have got to get more serious about it. Right now, we are doing nothing on that.

    Can we shutdown the Government over that?

  • http://www.sheetanchor.org Sheet Anchor

    in 2012; and $851 over 10 years.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/26/oof-cbo-says-boehners-bill-would-save-less-than-1t-over-10-years-and-just-1-billion-this-year/

  • jphamlore

    It’s painful but someone has to keep tabs on what the other side is openly leaking to the left-wing press. Just look up articles such as Greg Sargent’s.

    The Boehner deal even if passed in the House will simply be subjected to the same maneuver in the Senate as was used for Obamacare. It will be replaced by a totally different bill, some version of Reid’s with White House input. If no Boehner bill passes just as good from the Democrats’ perspective. Either way their plan is to use the mainstream media to paint the Republicans as the obstructionists.

    The plan has always been to repeat Clinton vs Gingrich so that by necessity President Obama has been destroying any chance of compromise before not just August 2 but August 9 and beyond, thus the speech last night that simply poured gasoline on the fire.

    Unfortunately the hostage of the nation’s credit rating is more valuable to one side than to the other. One message that is clear from every speech of President Obama is that we are children, and of course sometimes children must suffer the consequences of their actions. The credit downgrade is to certain Democrats the equivalent of making the nation eat its peas.

    Once the debt limit was not raised without conditions, the Democrats were always going to run out the clock beyond August 2.

    It is bitterly ironic to me that unless a dark conspiracy of major financial institutions exists that can start sending phone calls to give commands to those who would be our government leaders, we are headed to the financial equivalent of World War I.

  • Aaron Gardner

    And you can cite the CCB table vote all you want, that isn’t proof that Castle would have done anything.

    I followed the DE Senate campaign closer than most around these parts and took my fair share of shots for it. I won’t stand by, after the FEC and Justice have thrown out the charges against her, and watch a bunch of sallies who are scared of holding the line further these idiotic lies about her.

    It is a massive error to continue supporting those who would sell your freedoms one slice at a time solely because they have an R next to their name.

    Wake the hell up and look what your style of politics has brought us too.

  • snowshooze

    We all just swoon over you. The RS gal.
    Ok, we kinda nuts abour acat too.. sorry.
    It’s a ruse. An artificial deadline which may be moved by only the Democrats…
    No, we DO NOT have to raise the debt ceiling. Even our own have suggested that the sky is falling. It is not.
    Well, it might be over in Obama’s neighorhood.. but it is all clear in Anchorage.

  • snowshooze

    We all just swoon over you. The RS gal.
    Ok, we kinda nuts abour acat too.. sorry.
    It’s a ruse. An artificial deadline which may be moved by only the Democrats…
    No, we DO NOT have to raise the debt ceiling. Even our own have suggested that the sky is falling. It is not.
    Well, it might be over in Obama’s neighorhood.. but it is all clear in Anchorage.

  • Bill S

    Are you kidding? Kitten? My Boston Terrier isn’t afraid of him.

    The thing the GOP fears the most is the media. They’re scared ****less that they will portray us as the villains here.

    But guess what? They hate the GOP no matter what. There is nothing we can do to avoid that. So why slink around and wring our hands about it? Just do the right freaking thing and stand up to these idiots!

    Guess what else? The credit rating is going down anyway, and it should have been downgraded two years ago, when Obama started ringing up these deficits. There’s not a damned thing we can do about it. Screwing the pooch by passing a bad bill is just a horrid idea. The press is going to demonize us anyway, like always. Making decisions based on perception is stupid, and it’s what gets us in trouble every time.

  • lineholder

    Just knock it off, okay?

  • Aaron Gardner

    ..

  • hertfordkc

    Calling something a “cut” because it reduces a grossly inflated expenditure really sends my BP through the roof.
    None of the current proposals approaches a balanced budget. More infuriation: I don’t believe anyone in the media understands this.
    Hang in there, Erick.

  • kinggold

    Do you think that Castle’s gay, too? Because that’s what Ms. O’Donnell’s people alleged, and you’re quite trusting of assertions she makes.

    I’d also, by the bye, like to know how suing a think-tank for alleged sex discrimination and fabricating a college education makes you a down-the-line conservative.

  • Right Reason

    make me the sickest of all. It’s like watching your house burn down but being satisfied because you can blame it on the dog.

  • bk

    Ref: http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/123xx/doc12336/HouseBudgetControlAct.pdf

    In total, if appropriations in the next 10 years are equal to the caps on discretionary spending and the maximum amount of funding is provided for the program integrity initiatives, CBO estimates that the legislation would reduce budget deficits by about $850 billion between 2012 and 2021 relative to CBO?s March 2011 baseline adjusted for subsequent appropriation action. As requested, CBO has also calculated the net budgetary impact if discretionary savings are measured relative to its January baseline projections. Relative to that baseline, CBO estimates that the legislation would reduce budget deficits by about $1.1 trillion between 2012 and 2021.

    Depending on which baseline you use, you can get either $850B or $1.1T for later Congresses to undo.

    Of course there’s no score for Harry’s plan or Obama’s plan since they don’t score blank pieces of paper.

  • gekster

    If you are dumb enough to argue with an idiot,
    be smart enough to know when to stop
    just my opinion. ;)

  • Aaron Gardner

    Well thought out plan, sparky.

  • Right Reason

    better to get it out of the way. And anyone who says that this agreement doesn’t keep us firmly on the exact same path we’re on now is either delude or a liar.

  • snowshooze

    How many times are you gonna say no… until the money is gone…
    and then you want to close the park..

  • Aaron Gardner

    I actually know the idiots who put out that stupid video and I called them out for it at the time.

    Try again with some other lefty talking point you have picked up.

  • Aaron Gardner

    I have no problem with someone suing for sex discrimination.

    By all means continue ragging on O’Donnell to cover your own cowardice concerning actually fighting for conservative ideas like CCB.

  • Right Reason

    does insisting on CCB make it likely that we get a more Dem-favorable compromise?

    And how does Boehner putting through a compromise that everyone knows is a bunch of BS increase the chances of a 2012 sweep?

    This agreement makes it FAR more likely that 3rd party challengers will pop up all over the place for the 2012 races, siphoning off conservative votes and independents fed up with both who would have otherwise come home to us and making it MORE difficult for a sweep.

    Of course then you guys can blame it all on us ideologues for not supporting the party.

  • kinggold

    She certainly judged them well enough to hire them in the first place.

    But that’s neither here nor there. I followed the DE Senate race quite closely myself, you know, infuriating as it was. And you seem awfully inclined to go to the mat for this woman.

    For one thing, you seem convinced that the only reason she lost was because of intraparty sabotage. Now, I don’t know how powerful the DE GOP is, but I’m fairly certain they can’t swing a race 18 point, which is by how much she lost. That, friend, is rationalization, not logic.

  • Paul Seale

    GOP had majority and had to manuever just to get it to Scott’s desk. No such option here.

  • kinggold

    Which, I hasten, to add, could very well have been averted by now if not for some people’s drive to “save the Republic?”

  • Paul Seale

    Annd up to this point you’ve used “it isnt dead” as a straw man in an attempt to move the arguement away from where it is.

    Again, though you still dont get it.

    McCaskill is my Senator and she is firmly against CCB.

    I know dozens of people who have called her to ask and vote for CCB.. You do not understand this is a woman who cares less about what Missouri voters want and votes as the Dem party needs her to.

    Case in point was during the health care debate she toured the state and talked down to constituents who were demanding her to vote against the plan in droves.

    She still voted against it.

    Again, regarding tabling the amendment – it allows people to vote to kill the bill without taking flack.. all they have to do is claim that it was a “radical” solution and wanted to debate something more “civil” – that is it.

    CCB, as much as it is the best option, is dead until we take over the Senate, like it or not.

    At this rate I doubt we will be able to hold our selves together to retain the House.

  • Right Reason

    when they take the senate. But then, oh wait, we can’t do anything yet. We need 60 votes to get past the filibuster. We’ll do it in 2014 for sure. Oh wait, 60 isn’t enough, we’ve got Snowe, Collins and Graham on our side. We need 63. We’ll DEFINITELY get it done in 2016.

    Sense a pattern here?

  • Aaron Gardner

    Again, say what you must to clear your conscience.

  • snowshooze

    Rather than a paltry 20… price is the same..let’s make her pay…

  • Aaron Gardner

    If you do, you’d be the first.

  • kinggold

    …it just makes you louder.

  • Aaron Gardner

    You fit the bill and you know it. It is why you lash out at women not even in Congress rather than deal with your own inadequacies.

  • kinggold

    Were Joe Biden’s people hiding in the bushes, as well? Because that’s what she asserted to the Weekly Standard.

  • Aaron Gardner

    It won’t change the facts.

  • Paul Seale

    Wall Street in such, I simply see it as being irresponsible to give President Obama, Democrats and media what they’ve been pining for since last November.

    Democrats believed that 1994 was not about government over stepping the boundries – guess what happened? They got their tails handed to them as people spoke out.

    If we pretend 95 wasnt about the government shutting down and people deciding maybe it was a step too far in the other direction, think again.

    As to the Krauthammer plan.. it may be all thats left, although it wouldnt deal with the AAA rating issue.

  • Aaron Gardner

    DIAF.

  • toothpick

    Keep fighting. Lots of redstaters are silent but with you on this fight. Don’t give up. Hold their feet to the fire.

  • kinggold

    why not simply pull a Charles Johnson on me? At least then you could dispense with those pesky counterpoints, and you wouldn’t have to answer my criticisms.

    You’re an admin or something here, right? Show me the man you are.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Get your head out of your ass and stop spewing left wing talking points.

  • gekster

    The GOP establishment had got behind her, instead of doing what you are doing now, and IF Carl “I’m the smartest guy in the room” Rove hadn’t slamed her, she just might have won.
    But they both played to people like you, who would rather have an “electable” candidate rathan than a “conservative” one.
    And if you actually did pay that much attention to her, you would have know that everything said about her was false, not proven, and had no basis in actual facts.
    It is almost like you lost your job on Castles’ campaign because of her.

  • Aaron Gardner

    I’d prefer we keep you around long enough for you to show the whole world how cowardly you are. I mean, I assume after this deal, when the new one comes down the line you will be there to tell us all why it isn’t possible and we should compromise just one more time.

    You haven’t put out a single counterpoint that wasn’t based in a left wing lie. Not about O’Donnell and not about the Debt Ceiling.

  • kinggold

    the fact that we don’t have the Senate, and that we didn’t pick candidates who could win in the environments they ran in.

  • wennejunk

    But its a good start.

    The only real solution is to turn out the Boehners and McConnells and all the rest who have become blind.

    They’ve become so good at politics and survival, they no longer understand why they are there and who they work for.

    They were elected to lead and instead came to believe they were impotent.

    Worse, their illness is apparently infecting the new freshmen.

  • joecollins

    . . . . and everything to gain.

    I don’t think the stroke of midnight on August 2nd will bring calamity. It will probably be a peaceful evening, followed by the sun coming up on August 3rd. Business will go on, and so will government.

    The CBO scored the Boehner legislation and found $1 billion of savings in 2012. This is so WRONG!!!!

    Fight on, soldier on. . . . we have a country to defend.

  • snowshooze

    Republicans playing checkers, Democrats playing chess.
    Republicans cannot realize they are winning, even when threy have a face full of it. Still chasing the Democrats bus with a white flag, hoping the surrender is honored.
    Great. And we actually PAY for this kind of help?

  • Aaron Gardner

    If you had dealt in fact from the beginning it would be different, but you made a choice to lie about O’Donnell. Reap it.

  • snowshooze

    Is the same if we try or not.
    There is always a chance we might be able to pull it.
    If I go down, I pfefer to do so in flames.

  • kinggold

    Okay. We should continue to hold the GOP’s feet to the fire, unless they’re “one of us.” Then everything they say is true despite the facts, a blog post has more weight than your lying eyes and ears, and Mr. Erickson’s guiding hand is all a candidate needs to change impossible conditions for victory.

  • kinggold

    in the world you’ve constructed and this site has maintained in which a candidate can do no wrong and make no error if they check all the right policy boxes.

    No examination necessary, no long-term strategy allowed. End of story. You talk about cowardice? You ever stop and think that maybe biting your lip and letting a RINO slip through is the only way you accomplish a policy goal in the longer term?

  • Aaron Gardner

    When you choose to do so we can talk.

  • Aaron Gardner

    If you don’t think you lied then you should ask the FEC why they tossed the case against her.

    Liar.

  • kinggold

    I went back to look at her Weekly Standard write-up, which is where I started with a lot of my research back when I was eyeing this race, and I completely forgot.

    I forgot that she also accused Scott Rasmussen of taking bribes.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/christine-odonnell-wont-rule-out-third-party-run

  • kinggold

    Oh well. I suppose I’ll just have to go die in a fire now.

    And, again, the accusations of theft concerned 2008, not 2010. The 2008 ones were not examined by DOJ. Count yourself lucky she was cleared – she probably used your money to pay that rent.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Liar.

  • Aaron Gardner

    I’ll pray for you.

  • z06gal

    We are attempting to run a medical clinic. You simply would not believe the rationing that is already going on and the costs that medical clinics are feeling now due to this horrific bill. To say that it is bad is being nice = it is flat out awful and is destroying jobs. People simply are not hiring because of it every day that goes by that much more money will be spent implementing it. Our health insurance premiums have TRIPLED [I am not exaggerating] and we cannot afford it. I utterly refuse to go on any gov’t mandated ins program. Our docs spend their days dealing with seniors who are petrified over what obamacare entails for them. You just really don’t have a clue how bad it is. But guess what, the illegals get great care = whatever they need this gov’t will provide. I am sick of this crap. Ending o-care would definitely be worth shutting down the gov’t if that is what it would take. 2012 will be too late I am afraid to turn back everything that will be implemented by then. It is a law that has been deemed unconstitutional by a Florida judge and what did the GOP do? Nothing to stop the 200 billion that they had set aside for it. Boehner’s comment was, “We’ll take it out part by part.” That will NEVER happen

  • Bill S

    then why are you here?

  • snowshooze

    The O’donnell supporters didn’t care if she bought cocain with the money.
    We are delving in campaign cash, it isn’t a sacred cow…but I think it is a waste of time to fight it.

  • Right Reason

    Newsflash, Paul. The Republicans GAINED seats in bothe the House and Senate. Doesn’t sound too much like the people thought we went too far to me.

  • kinggold

    insofar as it reflects on the honesty or dishonesty of a candidate. In O’Donnell’s case, it reflected rather poorly.

    You are right, though. They did forgive her for things that they’d never forgive anyone else for doing or saying.

  • Aaron Gardner

    I can admit she wasn’t perfect, but she won the primary. I supported the Republican in the race, seem like Kinggold, and now you, figured she didn’t deserve your support.

    That’s fine, but don’t expect to lecture those who did support the Republican after the fact.

    And especially don’t do so with provable lies.

  • Dr. D

    Respect is earned through deeds. Great deeds require the courage to do what one believes is right, not what is necessarily popular or easy. It is time for our representatives to dig in and fight! For goodness sakes, if this not the time, when?

  • Aaron Gardner

    nt

  • sarg01

    … it’s denying the Dems a ready-for-TV excuse for the economy.

    Obama owns the economy now. If he can find a way to spread the blame around to Republicans, it will eat into our margin. It’s the only strategy by which he CAN win – unless you believe the dependency class can outvote the contributing class … in which case the republic is already doomed.

    He doesn’t have to be 100% successful at spreading the blame. Even if he takes 75% and the Rs take 25% … the wishy-washy “independents” who decide elections will back the media’s favored candidate if they can’t decide themselves. I think we know who that will be.

    Our goal should be to increase the immediate cuts in the Boehner plan, and to ensure we have to have this argument again early next year. Obama’s on the wrong side of this issue, and the longer we can keep him talking about it, the less “I feel your pain” BS he can try.

    However, we don’t have any leverage to improve the Boehner plan because we’re refusing to support the Boehner plan unless it is CCB – which can not pass.

    So we’re going to end up with Reid’s plan, or something close to it, because there’s no other way to get 218 + 51.

  • grandma

    So very well said. I really do appreciate that you have been holding firm.

  • wbb1950

    By caving in to the Boehner plan, conservatives will not avoid default. We have the money to avoid defautl. What they will do however is contribute to the downgrading of our bonds, and thereby unleash adverse economic consequences which are real, palpable and enduring. That should be their priincipal concern. $1 billion in savings will not save our bond rating. It is a joke.. Shame on Boehner for even putting it on the table. I think he is behaving like a surrender monkey and conservatives need to hold the line.

  • gekster

    from:
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/59166.html

    excerpt:
    ER, Del. ? Former Delaware U.S. Senate candidate Christine O?Donnell says federal prosecutors have concluded a criminal investigation into a complaint that she used campaign money for personal use.

    O?Donnell said in a Twitter post Friday night that federal investigators had ?slammed the door shut? on a complaint filed by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington.
    Cleta Mitchell, an attorney for O?Donnell, said a letter from the U.S. attorney?s office had been received late Friday.
    U.S. Attorney Charles Oberle confirmed a letter had been sent to the O?Donnell camp, but wouldn?t provide any details, saying his office did not comment on the conclusion of cases.
    O?Donnell has said the accusations were politically motivated and stoked by disgruntled former campaign workers.

    Get yopur facts straight before you spout off.
    Threadjack over.

  • kinggold

    There’s also a big difference between passing legal muster and passing ethical and moral muster, so intent was she to claim the moral high ground against Mike Castle.

    I’m not saying I didn’t support her, however grudgingly, when she got nominated. But I was under no illusions, as ethically bankrupt as she was, that she was going to erase an 18-point deficit in a month and a half.

    No dice.

  • snowshooze

    Possa be a friendly poke.
    Anyway, it would appear the O’Donnel campaign was framed up beautiffully.
    Personnaly I cn forget it. Water under bridge.
    But from a policy standpoint:
    Yall go fish.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Interesting that you have all this knowledge of ethical and legal lapses yet none have ever been actually proven.

    I would bet you probably think it was that icky Palin who lost us 08 as well.

  • Jack_Savage

    It will lead to victory. If we are not, it won’t. If the American people are too stupid to understand that this is a Democrat caused crisis, from beginning to end, and give them back power in 2012, then America deserves the express ride to hell that people vote for.

  • kinggold

    And my conscience is clearer than ever, because I support candidates that don’t require me to ignore their records.

  • Jack_Savage

    The Democrat stance is borrow and spend more. In this day and time, if the GOP cannot mount an effective counter-argument against that position then we are lost.

  • JSobieski

    The vast majority of the criticism of the Boehner plan also applies to CCB plan. Even the Ryan/Republican FY 2012 budget plan that resulted in some back sliding is BARELY substantive. All of these plans that we are beating each other up other involve trillion dollar deficits for as far as the eye can see. A contituational amendment would take a couple of years to be enacted, and even then it phases in the balanced budget restriction.

    Nothing in these plans will survive unless the GOP continues to win elections and continues to win over the public (which includes people who hate deficits but also hate medicare cuts).

    People call the Boehner plan cuts phantoms because they are based on the current baseline budget, but the same is true for CCB, the Ryan/Repub budget passed earlier this year, and the Coburn $9T plan. We have essentially doubled spending, and no plan except for the Coburn plan actually brings a balanced budget within 10 years.

    We are conducting debates and having fights in the realm of rounding errors when you look at the big picture. People are acting as if the survival of the country depends on a certain plan being enacted, or another plan being rejected. None of these plans is going to save the country. All of these arguments are political theater—symbolism at best, and in some cases symbolism to the exclusion of any substance.

    The only thing that makes CCB more than mere symbolism is the constitutional amendment aspect. Spending caps are no more ironclad that spending cuts planned for years 9 and 10.

    I am all for putting a line in the sand and holding it. I am against going in on a line that from a substantive standpoint, does little.

    I agree with the proposition that the August 2nd deadline is bunk. I suspect that we could go several weeks past that deadline before anything serious actually happens. Gamecock and I had a big argument on this point, and I am happy to see that he and others have realized that there is no “magic” about about the debt ceiling deadline.

    It is worth noting that there is nothing “magical” about CCB either. CCB if passed would be a symbolic good start, but it is no source of salvation any more than August 2nd is a day of doom. We are in the process of engaging in circular firing squads over $111B in cuts in FY2012.

    If the strategy was to draw a line in the sand and hold it, drawing the line at the CCB makes no sense to me. If we are going to risk the negative media blowback (something I am willing to do), why are we doing it for $111B FY2012 cuts?

    There is a difference between bravery and foolishness. I am not sure how we ended up where we are, but we seem to be taking on serious risks for trivial de minimis gains.

    It seems to me that we either negotiate the best deal we can with the parameters of no tax increases and some type of “significant cuts” or go for broke with something no less than the Ryan plan.

    The differential between CCB and whatever the House slops together tonight is not a substantive difference. Its smoke, mirrors, symbolism, and politics. That is precisely why someone like Ryan came out in support of the Boehner plan. He knows these plans are symbolism over substance.

    I just don’t see how holding the line matters all that much here unless we are talking political symbolism. If we are talking political symbolism, lets at least admit to ourselves that the stakes here are no substantive.

  • gekster

    from:
    http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20101231/NEWS02/12310354/-1/RSS1210
    Dec. 31, 2010 (see the date)
    excerpt:
    In network and cable television interviews Thursday, O’Donnell charged that two employees falsely alleged she had used donations in her failed 2008 Senate campaign for personal expenses. She backed away from assertions she made Wednesday that Biden had orchestrated an FBI investigation against her.

    Quit while you’re behind.

  • Aaron Gardner

    This guy isn’t interested in the truth at all, but I appreciate you bringing the facts.

  • runner12

    let me point out some significant flaws in your logic. Let us go over the facts.
    Your argument against CCB is that it won’t pass the Senate, right? Added to that, Obama said he would veto it.

    May I point out that Obama has said the same thing about the Boehner plan. So in a sense, you are arguing against the very plan you claim to support.

    The plans are in the same position, why not push for the better of the two?

    ( For those of you who would argue that the Boehner sell out would be more likely to pass, what guarantee do you have that it will? The Senate Dems would have to defy Obama, and you have already declared that an impossibility).

  • Scope

    And if Rove and Krauthammer didn’t keep slamming O’Donnell after her nomination, she had every possibility of winning against the self-described bearded Marxist Coons. I am guessing that she was so slammed and noncredible that many of the Republicans in DE stayed home.

  • JSobieski

    If the logic is that we can win a victory using the tactic of brinksmanship, lets get a victory worth winning.

    In other words, the question of why not push for the better of the three?

  • gekster

    He ain’t gonna see it, why show it.

  • kinggold

    I was working on some bad info. I had read that her 2008 campaign improprieties were not investigated completely by the FEC.

    Oh wait. They weren’t! The FEC’s commissioners deadlocked and let her off the hook!

    http://news.yahoo.com/fec-attorneys-urged-finding-against-odonnell-195332864.html

    But agency records released this week show that the commission deadlocked 3-3 along partisan lines last month on whether to accept the recommendations of the FEC’s office of general counsel, ending the investigation into a complaint filed by the Delaware Republican Party before O’Donnell captured the party’s Senate nomination.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Interesting concept you are working with there. Un-American, but interesting none the less.

  • Spiral

    If we get a S & P credit rating downgrade, we can say, “If was Reid’s plan that put us in this mess.”

    The GOP needs to step back and let the Democrats run the county for the next year and a half, with the House GOP vetoing the bad stuff.

    But the GOP should raise the debt ceiling to avoid default and should pass a continuing resolution to keep the government running.

    Business as usual. That will ensure Democrat defeat in 2012.

    Unfortunately, many Republicans want to act like we won the whole thing in 2010. We didn’t.

  • runner12

    We are having a hard enough time trying to force our CCB, which is already a compromise in and of itself. The problem is that we still have too many weak estsblishment Republicans who would scream and holler at the mention of that attempt. They may even faint.

    The reality is that CCB is a compromise and the best deal on the table right now.

  • Right Reason

    First – I don’t believe that CCB can’t pass. It requires some heavy lifting and some very public armtwisting on the part of the Republican Senate leadership (which is apparently too much to ask of them), but it can pass. Obama can veto, but then there’s the huge political PR victory you guys are craving so much.

    Second – We need to support Boehner’s plan so we can get him to change it?!! How does that one work, exactly?

    Lastly – How exactly, with a Republican majority in the House, do we end up with Ried’s plan?

    And as for the thrust of your post, I said it above. People whose main concern is making political hay out of this make me sick.

  • http://www.sheetanchor.org Sheet Anchor

    fear of the MSM.

    You would think that they have heard of “new media” by now. After all, you would think they must know that it was not the MSM who put them in power in the House. It was we “conservatives” and the Tea Party (I.e., you know, the “astroturf”) who rallied to the cause to save the Union.

    They better start understainding that they need not fear the MSM; they would be wise to fear us. They need to understand that we do the hiring and the firing, not the MSM; and that we are fully engaged and will remain so.

  • Finrod

    .

  • Right Reason

    *

  • http://dreamsfrommyforefathers.com RoguePolitics

    Right now they may not outvote us but we don’t have a meaningful margin either.

    Every current poll shows distrust of Republicans as high as distrust of Obama.

    No wonder.

    The Republicans have had two enormous chances to step up to the plate in the last 20 years and they blew both chances on the alter of moderation.

    If they don’t do something meaningful now…

    Well three strikes and you’re out.

    The Boehner plan offers no reason to turn out and rout the left in 2012.

    It IS one more betrayal by the establishment.

    There is more at stake here than party politics.
    In the past party politics has worked OK except for getting us here to this point.

    We are no longer standing on solid ground.

    The world, as a result of our debt and the constant growth of government, and a creation of a dependent voter class that is statistically roughly equal to the productive class, is teetering on the brink of catastrophic collapse. Even the 47% dependent class number being tossed around is a misleading figure because many we do not consider dependent class depend mightily on the continuity of bloated government. Consider Tax accountants and IRS agents, regulators and regulatory compliance bureaucrats at every medium or large organization, the social welfare bureaucracy public and private, defense contractors all depending on the continued existence of senselessly complex and corrupted regulations and federal largess, etc.

    There are too many who simple do not realize they ground beneath their feet is falling away and by 2012 may not be recoverable.

    I realize for many this puts me in a class of fear-mongering equal to Al Gore’s global warming brigade but there is a difference.

    Man made global warming has NEVER actually occurred.

    Yet, man made economic collapse is a regular occurrence.

    We don’t have any special voodoo to protect us. The US is not immune to the ills that have brought down other nations and empires.

    Long before there were any constitutional laws and twisted Supreme interpretations to turn those laws on their heads there were natural laws laid down by our creator. No congress or court gets to turn those upside down. Though sometimes, like any white collar criminal, they can temporarily conceal the effects and thus their guilt.

    We have broken those laws and we will pay the penalty. Right now if we self correct we may get away with an interest penalty. Prop the house of cards up just a little longer and when the collapse hits there will be no mitigation. It will all come down and what raises up in it’s place will be a 3rd Reich or similar.

    History shows us this is true.

  • JSobieski

    Your argument seems to presume that CCB saves the Republic, but anything less is fatal.

    The CCB cuts $111B in FY 2012. That is the bottom line. 10 year projections are worthless. The Constitutional Amendment aspect is helpful, but by the time it is approved by the states and the phase in occurs, the country will either have addressed the problem or we will be sunk.

    Make no mistake, the CCB is a political PR measure. The differences between these plans is way overstated. It is intended to get positive momentum, but it is not some giant step forward.

  • JSobieski

    Why are some people right and other people wrong?

  • roscopico

    There is a single plan currently “tabled”.

    We have proven they blink when the chips are down, and don’t think they aren’t scared. They know the President takes the blame for a poor economy, high unemployment, record and reckless spending.

    We are at war, and our enemy believes they might paint the House Republicans as somehow responsible for our pending crises… while at the same time believing the voting population too stupid to understand there is one party advocating more and more reckless spending while the other screams to JUST STOP.

    We are really worried about blame here, Speaker Boehner? Stop screwing this up.

    I believe either of the B.S. proposals floated in the MBM result in a reduced bond rating. I believe since it is inevitable, we would be better served to take our lumps and go down swinging. HOLD THE FRICKIN’ LINE.

    In the end, will people blame us for trying to put the brakes to the limp-wristed golfer-in-chief? More likely, the turn both barrels right to the real culprit.

    I’ve long worried that if the American People elected this damned Marxist, there might be nothing for us to clean up after four years.

    We’re about to find out.

    This is for all the marbles, boys and girls. Hold the Frickin’ Line.

  • scott88

    The tea party was co-opted by the GOP after the tea party thought the GOP was its ally. Turns out it was duped. The GOP carves govt up with the democrats at the expense of other interests including the tea party.

    Time for it’s own movement.

  • http://www.sheetanchor.org Sheet Anchor

    three branches of government means that we must compromise. This may sound good under normal circumstances; but these are anything but ordinary times. Let me be clear, to wit: the country is at stake. Therefore such a time requires extraordinary courage.

    The kind of courage needed now we have seen on the battlefield. It was epitomized at Gettysburg by Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain.

    “At the battle of Gettysburg the regiment, now commanded by Chamberlain, held the extreme left flank on Little Round Top, a service for which he was later awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.”

    Chamberlain, commander of the 20th Main Regiment, was charged with holding the left flank of the entire Union Army – at all costs. His regiment was outnumbered and relentlessly attacked until they had no more ammunition. Another attack was imminent. Chamberlain ordered the regiment to “fix bayonets” and led a charge overwhelming the enemy. He held the line, saving the Union Army.

    The conservative, Tea Party, House Republicans, are now in the position of Chamberlain and the 20th Main. They are the left flank They are the bulwark of the entire nation at this time. They must now hold the line at all costs; and we must back them up in word and deed. Call and e-mail them and back them up in holding the line.

  • roscopico

    The leftists are sweating at what looks like an inevitable government shutdown, and we’ll find out who receives the blame. I really don’t care if House republicans do, since the ones currently caving and capitulating are just as at fault as the Statists. We’ll lose a few country-club beltway Republicans?

    Boo Hoo.

    If the crap really begins to rain from the sky, we might lose a couple of ours, but the guy at the top whining about “millionaires and billionaires” will be the first to go.

    A government shutdown is the quickest way to a blanced budget.

  • Finrod

    Radio ads would be good enough. They need to point out how when push came to shove, Manchin stood with other Democrats instead of voting for the fiscally responsible GOP plan.

  • Right Reason

    any solid mechanism to even begin to fix the situation (I’ll give you a hint. It’s the “B”). You guys are overjoyed at the prospect of Obama vetoing the Boehner plan and sweeping a giant herd of sober, thoughtful, reasonable Republicans into office in ’12.

    Here’s a question: What happens when Obama signs the bill? It’s “our” bill so now WE own the consequences.

    This bill will fix NOTHING. It will continue to make it worse. And now Obama’s got a ready made stump speech. “I wanted to do it my way, but I was forced into signing this bill by the Republicans. And now look what has happened.”

  • http://dreamsfrommyforefathers.com RoguePolitics

    If the question is what will our credit rating be in 10 years?

    But more importantly do we recognize their is a point beyond which bankruptcy is inevitable. Maybe that line has been crossed. Maybe not. But it is directly under our foot or a couple of steps behind us.

    We don’t have the time, or resources, to keep playing the standard political games which 100 years of experience teaches us is a failure anyway.

    Hey like Bacha says, let’s eat our pea. Or as Dave Ramsey says, bean and rice and rice and beans.

    Let’s do this so our children don’t have to.

  • JSobieski

    It will take years for the states to adopt. It will take years for the amendment to be phased in. By then, we will either have addressed this problem, or the country will have been flushed down the toilet.

    How many states have deficits even though their constitutions require balanced budgets? I support a CA because I am desperate for SOMETHING, but don’t pretend its some greate savior.

    None of these bills is going to “fix” anything.

  • Finrod

    When was the last time a Democrat was successfully primaried from the Left? Other than Joe Lieberman who came back and beat ‘em in the general anyways.

    The Tea Party can win primaries. The Hardcore Left can’t, not at the Senate level anyways.

  • http://www.sheetanchor.org Sheet Anchor

    sure is standing up for fiscal conservativism, supporting CCB. She is always on the offensive.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    as you do about finance. High credit balances relative to your credit limit will have a significantly greater negative impact in the near term than a BK. And in the long term it just gets worse, especially when the bank raises your credit limit every six months so you can spend more.

  • JSobieski

    an increasing % of people won’t be able to get out of the death spiral. Kind of like light that gets too close to a black hole. At some ratio of debt, individuals, companies, and even countries just become walking corpses.

    In the business world, people like doing business with a Chapter 11 company because they know invoices will be paid.

  • patman2108

    I’ve heard that the government is currently spending 4 billion more than it takes in. Assuming this is correct, this is over $1.2 trillion/yr. Why doesn’t the House stand its ground? After the debt ceiling is reached, we begin to save $1.2 trillion/yr simply by shutting the gov’t down. I think this would force the Senate to begin debate on CC&B.

  • Finrod

    47 + 3 = 50 < 51 = 50 in the Democratic caucus + Biden

    So your whole silly lame point doesn't even make mathematical sense.

    Try attacking the other side for a change.

  • acat

    What she *likes* is pretty much .. meaningless.

    What she’ll *do* is the question.

    Mew

  • acat

    Although Paul assured me, at one point, that he’d had diaries promoted to the front page at one point.

    Mew

  • littlehouse18

    A small turnout weakens them more than no rally.

  • rightwingmom52

    Erick has more than proven his credentials as a conservative, not only through his diaries, but his actions in helping elect conservatives. I have yet to see any such evidence from GOP Tiger, kinggold, corpdt, and a host of others who’ve chimed in since the debt debate started.

  • snowshooze

    No, I didn’t sell out and still haven’t, but as we are off to other wars, I place my efforts accordingly.. that’s all.

  • charm2

    Support you Erick. It is easy to say you will fight before you are on the front line. This is the time to stand firm. Conservatives need to quit giving in at the first signs of resistance. Mc Connell laid down and rolled over before the fight began and Republicans have been biting their nails ever since. Forgeddabout it.

  • sarg01

    51 Senate Dems are on record as opposing it. Even if our cities are on fire, they can’t afford to change their votes. When preventable disaster strikes, the first priority of the politician is to make sure the other side gets the blame.

    Reversing themselves on CCB due to negative consequences is acknowledging their decisions were responsible for those consequences in the first place. Doing that involves loving America more than they love political power.

    Stating how much CCB needs to pass doesn’t do anything. Need doesn’t change reality. It can not pass, short of multiple Senate resignations or the 2012 elections.

  • sarg01

    To turn out and rout the left. Rout the left because they are wrong. Rout them because Obama has failed. Rout them because they don’t understand what freedom means.

    What we need to do is stop eating our own.

  • jlsankot

    I’m on the phone many times a week calling Boehner. Apparently, it has done no good.

    I don’t understand why it is up to us to come up with a plan. This idea was planted by the big zero and we just blindly kissed his hinny and came up with a plan. Then we came up with another and another.

    Does no one have the intestinal fortitude to point-blank ask him for his plan and follow it up with, “Well, when we see your plan, we’ll begin to work on this again. In the meantime,……….”

    Boehner has been a big disappointment in his leadership, in my opinion.

  • http://dreamsfrommyforefathers.com RoguePolitics

    We don’t carry enough weight to turn the election.

    The public needs a reason to turn out.

    If the Republicans screw it up people will stay home. Or they go third party. Some will even return to the Dems because the vote for WINNERS. It is what they do.

    You might not like it but we will still lose or just as bad we will gain a few or lose a few but not enough to make a difference. 51 in the senate means nothing Dems know how to run a filibuster as well as anybody and we have enough RINOs over there to give them what they want.

    And then we can talk 2014 or 2016 or 2036 or whatever.

    if 1994 proved one thing, 4 years or 6 years into an electoral revolution the politicians have gotten used to living the good life and always choose the safe path regarding re-election.

    Look at the resistance we have in the Republican Party here. We are all pinning our hopes primarily on the freshmen class because we know the majority of the rest are to far gone to be reliable.

    If it it doesn’t happen now it is not going to happen from the Republican party ever.

  • Right Reason

    Plenty of congressmen and senators have “been on record” opposing legislation that they later voted for.

    That’s the extent of the fight in you guys?!

    “They said they wouldn’t vote for it, so I guess that’s it.” Thanks so much for all you courage and hard work.

  • Right Reason

    but cuts that won’t kick in for years – and probably won’t happen – are A-OK, huh?

  • duanej

    While it may be a “good start” to help us turn out the Boehner’s and the McConnells, it does not avoid the gravitational pull, nor the sudden stop we face when our credit is downgraded; and believe me it isn’t the fall that will get us. It’s that sudden stop that I worry about.

    Cut, Cap, and Balance does avoid all of that. It forced the beast back into its cage. It cuts its food supply. It declaws and defangs the beast. Anything less than that will leave us defensless against it. It will not only consume us, but it will consume our posterity, our young ‘uns, as well.

    Don’t fool yourself. This is not political theater you see being played out before you wherein you didn’t get the outcome you wanted this time, but next time you will. There likely won’t be a “next time”. This is it. Make or break.

    We are headed for cataclysmic events. We are about to hit the street from a once very lofty perch. Our last best chance is CCB. Anything beyod this will be meaningless. If we fail here, we fail with a great big SPLAT!!!!

    So it offers little comfort to me that we might be able to shed some of the Old Guard after the impact is felt and it is a poor reason to cave on CCB.

  • 2cowboys4u

    Holding the line is the only responsible thing for us to do. We must fight for cut, cap, and balance. There should be no other plans on the table. This is not a perfect plan – a perfect plan is one that would not raise the debt ceiling, stop spending, and deal with medicare and social security. If we don’t hold the line our country will face default. Massive inflation and unemployment has already been predicted by several economists, so massive in fact it will be like nothing we have seen before. So hold the line Erick – it’s the only thing we should do.

  • greycoat

    Senator Nelson (FL) asked for our opinions. Here is mine:

    From Drudge: SHOCK POLL: 46% Think Most in Congress Are Corrupt? Developing?

    You sir are corrupt and part of a corrupt organization. Don?t piss down our backs and tell us it is raining. Both your radical Marxist Obama and the RINO GOP?ers are pushing a ten year plan and we Americans are not so stupid to believe after a year or two that those 8 or 9 remaining years there will be cuts. You can?t bind future Congresses. Your radical party is spending us into oblivion. No to raising the debt limit. You have revenue of $200 billion/month and interest on the debt is $20 billion/month. You have ENOUGH revenue to pay our bonds, our troops, Social Security, and Medicaid. Claims that Seniors will not get their SS checks is a lie, a ruse, and economic terrorism by a government hell-bent on destroying this country with it?s insane spending. It?s blackmail.

    You Senator Nelson used to be an old-fashioned Democrat, but now you support the radical Marxists in your party who have taken over and corrupted what used to be a good party.

    Your party is driving us to bankruptcy, ruin, and civil war.

    Obama is America?s Number 1 domestic enemy.

  • bobtx

    I am as conservative as they come, butI agree with those at Redstate who seem to be realistic enough to know we can overplay our hand, here. Let’s get all we can and get them in 2012. You say all we need is 4 votes in the Senate for CC&B, but that’s not enough to break a filibuster to bring it to a vote. Michael Barone had a great article yesterday about how we need one more election to get what we want. Erick, you’re glass is half empty all the time and it’s getting old. You sound like one who would want to punish Republicans in 12 if they don’t get all you want, instead of helping get them the reinforcements they need!

  • JSobieski

    and another option trivial.

    The people saying there are huge differences are making mounds out of mole hills. People like Art Laffer or Paul Ryan understand that CCB is primarily political.

    If you think the US economy is going to go off a cliff by 2013, CCB doesn’t save us.

  • momofthecastle

    HOLD THE LINE!! DO NOT RAISE THE DEBT CEILING. PERIOD.

  • cwilson

    …those ‘hopeless crackpots’ served a beneficial purpose — two, actually.

    #1, they “drew the fire” of the Dems and the MSM (BIRM) during the election; there’s no guarantee the “reasonable” replacement candidates would have won in their place — as the polls showed re: Mike Castle/DE. However, the intense focus on those races reduced the flak hitting others across the country. Hence, Alan West, Noem, Ellmers, etc.

    #2, the willingness of the Tea Party to primary establishment RINOs — even if that means losing the seat — has put the fear of God into the RINOs left. Did you EVER think the Maine Twins would stand in solidarity with the Republican caucus…on ANY contentious issue? Yet…they have done so in THIS session many times, Why? Did they suddenly get Conservative Religion…or were the DE/NV races “instructive”?

    In short, we would have had a smaller majority in the House; there’s no guarantee we would have won those seats in the Senate, and some of the seats we DID win would be rather more squishy in THIS congress than they have been. I think the current composition — and state of fear in those IN office — is a win, compared to the counterfactual universe where McC/Angle were not nominated.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Lying coward.

  • johngant

    There is one compromise that I could except. I would allow a one time increase of the debt ceiling of $800 billion in exchange for the repeal of the 1974 Budget Act and all subsequent legislation relating to it. This act is THE golden egg laid by a goose which should be butchered and baked for dinner this Christmas. Absent that, I say attack the demorats because they are in a weak and indefensible political position. This is obama’s economy.

  • runner12

    Could you rephrase?