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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

All You Need To Know About The House Republicans

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  July 27th, 2011 at 05:13 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

One week ago the entire conservative movement was unified behind Cut, Cap, and Balance as was both House and Senate GOP caucus — no small feat to be sure.

Then, because Harry Reid denied CCB a vote through a procedural motion, John Boehner produces a crackpot plan that rips the conservative movement apart at the seams and after taking two stabs at it, still can’t get to the promised $1.2 trillion in cuts he initially claimed it would have.

The bill is being whipped against by Pelosi (which CCB was not) and will likely draw less Dem support than CCB. The bill is said by Reid to be DOA in the Senate.

But Boehner believes that it is strategically smarter to die on this hill and force it down Senate Dems throats rather than try to do that on a bill in which he has the support of all his members, all the movement, and 66 percent of the American people.

These people need to be put in a mental ward.

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COMMENTS

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  • sarg01

    She knows that unlike CCB, the House passing this conflicts with Obama’s one hard stance – that no deal is acceptable if he has to ask for another increase before getting tossed out of office in 2013. It’s important to the Dems to face save on this as the Republican leadership has already forced Obama to major compromise four times.

  • dhoerster

    …force CCB to be voted on by the Senate?

  • traversecityconservative

    Every bill should have gotten stronger along the way, not weaker. I’m not sure if they can force a vote on CCB, but they could re-write it and re-submit it and tell them it’s that or nothing. Because to us Conservatives, it IS that or nothing. Boehner has to get a clue. We don’t care what HE wants any more than we care what Obama wants. This is what WE want – the voters, the taxpayers – the people whose money they are stealing and the ones who gave them all jobs.

  • swami7774

    Boehner sent CCB over to the Senate. Reid killed it.
    Boehner will send Boenher II over to the Senate. Reid is trying to kill it.

    Thus, Boehner can say “We sent those clowns TWO different bills and they wouldn’t even vote on EITHER of them.”

    Anyone who sees that and still blames Republicans should not be allowed to vote. ;)

  • GopTiger

    Is this what you and this site have been reduced to?

    This is sad.

    There was a time when this site was a bit more respectful about Reagan’s 11th Commandment.

    No more.

    Now, when genuine conservatives like John Bolton and Paul Ryan disagree with you about tactics, they are now told they should be placed in a “mental ward”.

    Erik, you are doing much more harm now than good.

  • luvnthebigsites

    Dingy Harry says its DOA? Fine. The republican party should quit writing bills that everyone hates and that will never pass and let the Senate dems write a bill and get it passed. The imaginary “default” be damned.

  • jccbin

    Dear Obama:
    Please don’t compromise. Let 40 percent of the gov’t stay home in August. Come September 1, I bet most Americans will realize just how little they’ve missed. Then they will be on our side.

    Cut Cap and Balance or we are hanging all of Congress. Trust the American people. BLEEP Compromise!

  • JSobieski

    Smaller debt ceiling increases coupled with $30-40B in 2012 cuts. A debt ceiling increase tied ot the repeal of the baselining requirement.

    People see that the Senate hasn’t passed anything and that Obama has put anything down on paper. Crank out the paper—and have the plans be better than the Boehner plan (i.e. things that people will support).

  • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

    Yes on Boehner and passage in the House will be like passing a live hand grenade to Reid and saying “here, hold on to this” He earlier supported this sort of a plan.

    So it gets a Senate vote. “NO” from Democrats with no other plan means they get

    Vote “NO” to see TeaParty-RINO circular firing squad donnybrook meltdown. the Republicans will be too busy fighting amongst themselves to fight the media blamegame when default happens.

    As for this: “Then, because Harry Reid denied CCB a vote through a procedural motion, John Boehner produces a crackpot plan that rips the conservative movement apart at the seams” …

    This is overheated. A week ago, the flavor of the week was “gang of 6″ and it was unclear the Senate would even deign to vote on CCB. The lack of substance to gangof6 saved CCB from a diversion. And then the week prior it was McConnell cave-in. And the week prior, it was “would we be forced to raise taxes?” Answer – no. And yet STILL the President plays the corporate jet card and demands ‘sacrifice’ (is he giving up AF1?)

    Indeed throughout the whole process, it has NEVER been the conventional wisdom that is was CCB or bust. Beohner’s position was no tax hikes and spending cuts more than the debt ceiling raise.

    “The bill is being whipped against by Pelosi (which CCB was not) and will likely draw less Dem support than CCB. ”

    Pelosi knows the Boehner bill is a bigger threat, for the simple reason it may become law in the next 7 days.

    “The bill is said by Reid to be DOA in the Senate. ”

    FINE! Then it’s Reid’s and Obama’s problem. 2 bills and we are done! Let him craft HIS solution and try to get it passed. we sit back and watch a replay of the Minnesota -style meltdown of a chief executive who forgot he’s not dictator.

    One termer for sure.

  • luvnthebigsites

    Every new effort (or deal) has just gotten worse… Its been nothing but down hill since CCB got through the house. *sigh*

  • jccbin

    are politicians, not people. They are part of the ‘ruling elite’ who think they know better. Screw the whole game. The so-called ratings companies were complicit in the financial crash; they can be shut down, humiliated and even destroyed if necessary.
    This is not a political exercise any longer. This is an exercise in Freedom.

    Get out of our way, pols. You’re done. Go play your polite and civilized games and call each other gentlemen. We are building guillotines and gallows. Our way. Cut, Cap and Balance.

  • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

    JS, I am with you.

    There is ONE SIMPLE BILL that could go a long way towards REALLY meeting our goals and making it stark and simple … and worth fighting for.

    Simple bill: $200b FY 2012 cut, that over 10 years is $2T savings, with a $2T debt ceiling increase.

    The key is to FRONT-LOAD not backload savings, to get the spending cuts NOW.

    3 options is enough though.

    Rush has a point. The Dems have no plan. If they have something, cook it up and pass it through the Senate and we will consider it. We need to stop negotiating with ourselves. This is what got us this “CCB vs cut-down dishwater compromise” argument. At some point, the Republicans simply need to say “put up or shut up”

  • moosewing

    The Republicans are fighting the wrong fight. They should pass a “clean” increase in the debt ceiling that goes until about March or April. No cuts at all. Then pass the Mack Penny budget and send it to the Senate. Tell the Senate that there will be no continuing resolutions. Period. They have two months to pass a budget if they don’t like the Ryan plan or the Mack Penny plan. Then stop. Don’t do another thing until the Senate acts. If they refuse to vote or vote down the Mack plan, shut the government down. Make the Senate pass a budget. Stop any negotiations of any kind budget related until they pass a budget. The debt ceiling will come back up in March/April.

  • supercap

    Well duh, the GOP won the senate in 2010. Senate Majority leader McConnel just has to call for it. I’m sure senators Sharron Angle and Christine O’Donnel will rally people to the cause. They’re senators aren’t they? No?

  • atlasshrugs

    I thanked you yesterday, but I want to thank you again. You have become one of the my hero’s in the debt ceiling debate.

    Keep calling for the line to be held! ?

  • JSobieski

    Lets go back to Ryan. Take the FY2012 parts of it, tie it to the debt ceiling increase, and see what happens. If Reid and Obama agreed to more than trillion in “cuts” make them eat half that amount . .. in FY2012. Instead of backloaded cuts, we go for a smaller number of exclusively front loaded cuts. Use their own DC-speak against them.

    How is this for a headline “Obama vetoes debt ceiling increase because he refused to sign on to $200B in cuts after agreeing to cut $3T”?

    There is an amazing lack of creativity on our side of the isle. The House can ram stuff through. We could force the Senate to vote on (or not vote on) all sorts of stuff that is popular.

    Repeal the statute that requires baseline budgeting. Force Reid to defend calling a 5% increase a cut. If the deadline is going to pass, lets at least do some things with it.

    CCB is hardly some great plan. I am all for fighting, but lets open up the field if we are really going to play.

    Real 2012 cuts for a raise in the debt ceiling. Stop factoring in 10-year plan cuts. Make the transaction as clean as possible. Let Obama explain how $200B-$300B is both too small and too large at the same time. Make him eat his own words.

    Or we can just engage in a circular firing squad over something that is almost certainly not going to happen, and isn’t all that great anyway,

    The opposite of DC-crap is to focus exclusively on 2012, and by that I mean FY2012 the current appropriations process.

  • johnnyd

    Obama is going to claim he has the power under the 14th amendment so he can go around Congress once again.

    Obama will say that if he did not act we woud default and be down graded.

    He will say he was FORCED to ACT for the good of the country. He is manufacturing a crisis.

  • runner12

    Erick never said Bolton and Ryan need to be placed in a mental ward. Perhaps you need to reread the piece.

    His point was similar to one I made yesterday which is the same arguments you and others are making against CCB are the exact same that exist for the Boehner plan.

    Obama and Reid have said no go on both. So why negotiate for the weaker deal when both are in the same boat so to speak? It makes no logical sense.

  • luvnthebigsites

    nt

  • youngconstitutionalist

    Reagan’s Commandment, unlike the first Ten, was not inscribed in stone by God Himself. Republicans deserve criticism. Or are we just a bunch of party loyalist hacks? I’d rather be in violation of the so-called “11th Commandment” than a party hack. Fact is, some of our fellow conservatives are capitulating to the liberal narrative. How that helps conservatives who aren’t nobody knows. Funny thing about the “11th Commandment” is that the RINOs and mushy conservatives rarely seem to follow it. It only ever gets called out for we conservatives who oppose what the compromisers and RINOs do. They were the first to start bashing the Tea Party for nominating O’Donnell and Angle. Why aren’t they getting indicted for violating the “11th Commandment”?

  • silentcal2012

    … with a lot of strong, smart, principled conservatives.

  • JSobieski

    Even liberal D’s in the Senate would turn on him—a plurality at least. His own vote against raising the debt ceiling would get a lot of coverage. The D’s would be running for cover.

    Obama is not going to go the 14th Amendment route. He has already said as much. He knows it is a political loser.

  • youngconstitutionalist

    I do not oppose compromise in all situations. I only oppose compromise on matters of principle.

  • Whacker77

    The fact is everyone would prefer CC&B. No one denies that, but it’s NOT going to happen. If Republicans just sit on their hands and say they’ve done their job, the Democrats will allow default and the media will put all of the blame on Republicans.

    If we follow the mentality that produced some goof ball candidates in 2010 on this issue, we will lose the House and the presidency in 2012. It’s that simple. Anyone who says differently is just fooling themselves.

    Like everyone else, I want immediate change, but Republicans don’t have the power to do so. They control one chamber of the Congress. They don’t even have as much power as they did in 1995. Republicans will lose if the hardest of hard lines prevail.

    What this imperfect bill does is establish the idea that cuts, not taxes, are the way to affect the deficit. This bill will also mortally wound Obama’s re-election chances. He has been beaten, but Republicans can fumble on the goal line if their not careful.

    With the passage of this bill, Republicans will be seen as the poltical winners and Obama the loser. It will destroy his base and make it very likely Republicans sweep the 2012 elections.

    If you want real change, accept this bill because it will produce a Perry presidency, a large House majority, and 55 or more seats in the Senate. That’s when we can get the change we’ve always wanted.

  • jccbin

    Come up with an inverse debit card for businesses to give to their Senior Citizen customers. It starts a zero and goes up. When the social security checks are finally paid, the business submits an electronic charge for the amount on the card.
    See? Who needs the effin Govt?

  • JSobieski

    So rag on the guy if you want, but he does “know better”.

    The Ryan plan (particularly his early roadmap) has far more extensive cuts than Cut Cap and Balance. The Republicans abandoned that plan and you say nothing. They adopt the lesser plan of CCB and you dig in emotionally. Now you accuse the author of the far superior plans as being part of the “ruling elite” even though his plans do far more than anyone elses?

    The lack of logic coupled with the “guillotines and gallows” comment reveals quite a bit. Anyone whose language and thoughts drip with envy of the French Revolution should be suspect in the eyes of conservatives. In the Tale of Two Cities, London wasn’t perfect, but Paris was a hell hole.

    The only person being humiliated here is you.

  • GopTiger

    Since I misread Erik’s comments, to whom is he referring to when he says “they”.

  • Scope

    Aliens from another planet?

  • GopTiger

    If you were reading this site back in the fall, you will recall when anybody questioned the electability of O’Donnell, they were told questioning the Republican nominees would not be allowed.

    Mushy conservatives? Allen West, Paul Ryan, John Bolton, Fred Thompson, Haley Barbour. Mushy?

    Count me “mushy”. I stand in excellent company.

    Tell you what, young, I’ll stand with the majority of the House GOP caucus if they give the Boehner Plan the thumbs down.

    However, if the majority of the House GOP caucus in favor of the Boehner Plan, will you stand with the majority once the dust settles?

  • Aaron Gardner
  • gekster

    conservative candidates who lost thier elections because they were too conservative for the GOP elite and the great guru Carl Rove.
    wonder if they would have won if they had gotten behind them and supported them.
    Two more senators does not a majority make.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    The House can repass CCB and send it to the Senate. Boehner can simply say – “We have passed several bills that already await your vote or an alternative.”

    McConnell can get off his elitist establishment duff and make life miserable in the Senate for Reid or filibuster anything Reid offers until CCB gets a vote.

    Any number of scenarios here.

  • Tbone

    Aliens from another planet would also be people as they would have also been created in God’s image.

    OTH, they don’t call politicians political animals for no good reason.

  • Spiral

    If I remember Francis Cianfrocca’s last couple of posts here on Red State, Francis is not in favor of going over the cliff on the debt ceiling issue. However, I would think Francis is in favor of reforming our large entitlement programs, like Medicare and Social Security.

  • youngconstitutionalist

    capitulates at some point. It’s going to happen, I get it. I mentioned that I forgive West for doing this, but he is still wrong! I get the pressure. However, it’s up to us to reinforce our allies and point out that they are flat wrong. Fact is, the Boehner plan is a complete capitulation. It cuts little. Its cuts aren’t worth the effort to write them all down. 6 billion out of an over trillion dollar deficit? Give me a break. You can find 6 billion in error over at the Treasury. I don’t want to increase the debt ceiling in the first place, and neither should any other Republican. The only we should accept for it are massive cuts.

  • GopTiger

    I questioned the electabilty of ONE GOP candidate. You know, the one that acknowledged she dabbled in witchcraft.

    That’s a far cry from going after the likes of Fred Thompson, Haley Barbour, Allen West, Paul Ryan, Laura Ingraham, the Republican Speaker of the House, etc.

    Even Mike Pence is saying favorable things about the Boehner Plan. I guess he is a RINO too…

  • gekster

    It was back the primary winner in the general elections.
    It was the “conservative in the primary, Republican in the fall.
    ODonnel was choosen by the people of Delaware to be thier nominee.
    She needed all the support we could give her then, but the Gop elite didn’t want her, and didn’t back her.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    : )

  • red_oakster

    And the Pontius Pilate, mental ward, Kristol is not one of us rhetoric has further undermined his cause.

    Moreover, every bad day in the market will bring more House members into the fold. The notion that a chronic ongoing default (as opposed to a short-term default while the two sides moved toward a resolution) would benefit the Republicans was always a dubious proposition, though I am surprised how quickly the House caucus is coming together. I thought it would take longer.

  • Spiral

    Here’s the problem.

    The difference between the Cut, Cap and Balance legislation being tabled on a 51 to 47 vote isn’t much different from that same legislation being defeated on a straight up and down vote.

    Here’s why.

    It’s hard to get straight up or down votes in the US Senate. This is because of the filibuster/cloture rules of the US Senate.

    In order to get a vote on a piece of legislation, one of two things must happen:

    [1] Unanimous consent.

    A Senator can say, “I ask unanimous consent that we proceed to an up or down vote on the Cut, Cap and Balance legislation.” If no US Senator out of 100 objects, a vote can be held immediately. However, if just 1 single, solitary US Senators says, “I object,” a vote can not be held because there was no unanimous consent. Which leads to the other option.

    [2] Cloture motion.

    16 US Senators can write up a cloture motion and get it filed. This is basically a request for a cloture vote. Once a cloture motion is filed, a cloture vote will be held two days following. So, if 16 US Senators sign their names on a cloture motion on Tuesday, the cloture vote will not happen until Thursday.

    On Thursday, a cloture vote occurs. If 60 US Senators vote “Aye” on cloture, then a vote can be held on the Cut, Cap and Balance legislation.

    Now, Senate Majority Leader Reid could have gone through all that long drawn out process, just to get to an up or down vote on Cut, Cap and Balance and then had his Democrat caucus defeat it on a 51 to 47 vote.

    Instead, Reid simply said, “I motion to table,” which resulted in an immediate up or down vote to brush Cut, Cap and Balance off of the Senate agenda.

    So, essentially, the 51 to 47 tabling motion was a short cut way of killing Cut, Cap and Balance in the US Senate, ending debate on Cut, Cap and Balance by tabling it.

  • youngconstitutionalist

    has been doing this since Goldwater. We get our guy, and then they attack us. Half the liberal Republicans wind up openly supporting the Democrat in these situations. These “moderate”/liberal types still control much of the party apparatus, and we need to kick them out once and for all.

    Of course, many conservatives will then say that we ought not to fight for our principles then, fearing a Goldwater ’64 repeat. I say, does it matter when we vote for the candidate in the primaries who will take us down the road to perdition half as fast as the other guy?

  • GopTiger

    I don’t mind honest disagreements over tactics. I’m sure you are a terrific guy/gal who will fight the good fight against the left long after I’m gone.

    But when one faction begins to scream “-RINO” -”gutless”- “they should be in a mental ward”, well, we have moved beyond honest disagreement and into the realm of destruction.

    I

  • youngconstitutionalist

    No one is saying supporters are necessarily RINOs. We are saying they are capitulating to the liberal narrative. They are wrong, not the enemy or RINO. We need to convince them.

    However, Boehner needs to be replaced as Speaker. I don’t care if that means kick him out of his seat.

  • ghostship

    This is what the Republican Party will get if they pass the Speaker’s bill.

    The base cannot stomach the same old dog and pony show of fake cuts and kicking the can down the road.

    It truly is madness that they can’t see this.

  • runner12

    Fred Thompson- leans toward moderate, definitely establishment
    Ditto on Barbour

    Allen West- everyone has a bad day, he is allowed a few.

    Ryan- God love him, he has done a lot of good. But he is not perfect, he voted for TARP. Just sayin’……..

    Ingraham is a great social conservative, but I am not sure about her ficon credentials.

    EVEN SO, a rational, educated, and principled man or woman does not make difficult decisions based on pop political icons nor even their friends in Congress. They make decisions based on conscience, truth, and what is best for the country and the American people.

  • Aaron Gardner

    P.S. I didn’t call anyone a RiNO. I just called you out for breaking the same rule yo wish to see enforced today.

    You aren’t a RiNO, you are a hypocrite.

  • Spiral

    Red_oakster,

    I agree with you. If the purpose of this debate is to save the country, why are we threatening to drive the country off the cliff?

    Now, some have said, “Don’t worry your little self about scare words like default and the Washington Monument being shut down, Defense contractors not getting paid. It will be one quick 40 percent cut in federal spending. And no one will miss it.”

    The problem, as I see it, is this. Not even the most tea party oriented Republicans in the House or the Senate have proposed and detailed a budget whereby the federal government cuts spending by 40 percent immediately.

    Sure, Coburn has detailed 9 trillion dollars of “cuts” (actually cuts from an inflated baseline) over many, many years. But nobody, and I mean nobody, has introduced into this discussion a budget that shows us how we manage, overnight, with 40 percent less money than before.

    Paul Ryan’s budget did not get the federal budget into balance until 2030.

    So, the “let’s drive this country off a cliff” idea has always seemed a bit insane. It’s as though many conservatives figure that the voters will never elect the right kind of Congressmen and President, so why not just throw the long ball, hail Mary pass and hope we get an end zone catch.

    I think it’s nuts. But I’m in the minority here.

  • GopTiger

    Perhaps. But I read the words “RINO” and “cowardly” quite a bit here.

    But someone is saying “they” should be in a “mental ward”.

    Again, who is the “they” Erik is referring to when he says “they should be in a mental ward”?

    Does anybody know?

  • runner12

    the same illogical argument. I will ask you again to rationally and logically explain how supporting Boehner’s plan over CCB makes any sense when Obama said he would veto both.

    If both are in the same situation, why not support the better plan?

    Your turn to answer the question, if you can.

  • avgjo

    According to Hotair.com, who is in turn quoting Politico, that House Republicans are getting their, um, backsides in line.

    You know what this means, right?

    We’re gonna have to give them the same town-hall treatment we gave the dims in ’09.

    Conservative media will have to gear up and prepare itself to savage these people when they step out of line… our line.

    We’ll have to make Boehner get his donkey in line.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Just wondering since you aren’t actually quoting anyone, what is the purpose?

  • youngconstitutionalist

    However, we need to be strong and forceful. We need to be clear that the Boehner plan is bad for America. We need strong conservative leadership against this. If public opinion is against us, which I’m still not convinced it is, then we need to be out there making the case and letting our GOP Representatives know that we have their back if they won’t capitulate.

  • Spiral

    Not sure who “they” is. Maybe Congressman Mike Pence, hopefully my soon to be governor.

  • Aaron Gardner

    I don’t get it, you aren’t quoting anyone. What is your point?

  • GopTiger

    And I would add to that list…

    Erik Erikson- everyone has a bad day, he is allowed a few….

    Of course, I don’t recall any of those people listed suggesting those conservatives who disagee with them should be in “a mental ward”.

  • runner12

    dollars in debt and whose tactics have proved a colossal failure.

    The definition of stupidity is continuing to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result.

  • avgjo

    is what Michael Hammond wrote about this special commission last night. They can apparently pass ANYTHING they want with it.

    Just something else to consider when deciding if your representative’s support for this monstrous bill is akin to blasphemy
    (i.e., unforgiveable) or not.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    Which is exactly what they have done. Democrats find ways to make things happen. Our leadership sits still and keeps quiet – except when attacking their own caucus.

    McConnell allowed the Gand of Six proposal to undermine CCB. Then he proposed his own bill that undermined support. Boehner has been cutting and running since the CCB vote.

    Either these two are incompetent leaders or they are RINO establishment big-government supporters.

  • GopTiger

    You got me there!

    While I supported Angle and Buck (I sent him money), I thought O’Donnell is the exception to the 11th Commandment. That bit about witchcraft was just a bridge to far.

    So, yes, I can be a bit of a hypocrite about not supporting one candidate. One candiate.

    Thats a far cry from torching the entire leadership of the GOP House.

  • runner12

    calling everyone who dared oppose the Boehner plan every name in the book. Have you read the other diaries today? We have got people furious over people pointing out the accounting gimmicks in Boehner’s plan.

    The WSJ took out an editorial excoriating us. Trust me, Erick’s “mental ward” comment pails in comparison.

    You still have not answered my question upthread. Care to now?

  • GopTiger

    Who is the “these people”?

  • ghostship

    First of all, there is no danger of a default. The government brings in more than enough money to service it’s debt.

    Second, all that would happen is a government shutdown. That’s not the end of the world.

    Finally, the media blames the GOP for everything. If I stub my toe a reporter will pop out of nowhere to yell at me that’s it’s all the Republican’s fault.

    If you want real change grow a spine.

    HOLD THE LINE! STAND AND FIGHT!

  • Bill S

    .

  • Scope

    $1.5 trillion in spending cuts spread evenly across the board of discretionary spending, exempting defense. No debt commission required. The cuts are reflected in the 2012 budget. $1 trillion debt ceiling increase. No default allowed on debt interest payments, SS, Military Pay. Obama can request an additional debt ceiling increase one year from now in August 2012, but the same conditions apply.

    The Republicans get their meaningful spending cuts, Obama gets his debt ceiling increase, the credit agencies know we are serious about reigning in the out of control spending. Will it pass- absolutely not, but it’s simple enough for everyone to understand, and to get behind. No hidden agendas, no special interest groups favored, complete and open transparency.

    Our focus must be on the 2012 elections. Most knew and acknowledged that 2010 was only the first wave, and understood it would take 2 or 3 election cycles to take Washington away from the Socialists/Marxists. The Senate is critical, the House needs to be expanded with conservatives, and Obama must be thrown out on his big ears. When the conservatives have control, not necessarily the Republicans, we cut, slash, burn, and repeal repeal and repeal some more.

    One of the things that keeps going through my mind at this time is, when we are a few months away from the 2012 elections, are we going to be rooting for all the Republicans that we are currently burning at the stake? I thought the sentiment at one time was that any Republican is better than any Democrat. Has that changed?

  • Francis Cianfrocca

    That’s because there isn’t time to negotiate a proper deal with significant entitlement reforms that are likely to actually come to pass. I think we should force the Democrats to keep debating the question of fiscal discipline right up till the next election, if that’s what it takes.

    I’m NOT in favor of extending the debt ceiling for a long period of time without getting meaningful, non-phony spending cuts.

    Although I’ve said nice things about Boehner’s handling of the situation recently, I’m with Erick now. The endgame isn’t going well for conservatives.

  • GopTiger

    I don’t think the “these people”/ they is me considering I’m not mentioned in the post.

    Frankly, I support both CCB and the Boehner Plan. I would prefer the first, can live with the second.

    If the Senate and the President will not support either, as far as I’m concerned we-the GOP-are done.

    Now its up tp Reid and Obama to present a plan.

  • Aaron Gardner

    O’Donnell can’t even affect anything at this point yet you lay blame on her. I at least am putting the blame on those who are actually putting out these God-awful plans that end up costing more in 10years than they save.

    If the GOP Leadership came out for tax hikes on the rich I would blow them up. If the GOP Leadership decided that they now believe in Canadian style HC, I would blow them up. If the GOP Leadership came out in favor increased entitlement spending I would blow them up.

    You seem to be of the opinion that when you masters speak, you fall in line. This is, of course, the exact opposite of what a representative democracy is all about.

    Why don’t you go back to where you have been hiding since the 2010 elections. I assume that is John Boehner’s trousers by the way.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Maybe you can find some other contribs words and try to use them against Erick next.

  • lineholder

    and thanks for standing with Erick as well.

  • GopTiger

    I just hope you are tenacious in fighting the liberals in your district and state as you are with me!

  • lineholder

    I do agree that a lot of conservatives will be disappointed and disillusioned if the Repub leadership fails on this point, but there is a far too much at stake now for conservatives to just sit back and allow establishment Repubs to get back to “business as usual”.

    Not this time. If anything is true, we have to pick up the pace of what was started last November.

  • runner12

    Let me repeat it. You have two plans right? The Boehner plan and CCB. Obama has said that he will veto both.

    You and others have been repeating the meme over and over that the Boehner plan is the only one that will pass, we only control one part if the government, that CCB is dead BECAUSE Obama and Reid said it was DOA. The problem is that they said the same thing about the Boehner plan,

    So the question remains, if both plans are in the same boat, why not push and whip for the better of the two (CCB)?

  • rightwingmom52

    The first one, the re-written one or the next one?

  • doncorleone

    The repubs do this everytime they’re up against it on the really big issues, especially the fiscal ones that they allow the “liberals” to demogogue them on ad-nauseum. They spey and neuter themselves, instead of doing that to their opposition (verbally, rhetorically and logically, of course). Instead of allowing these situations to be a shining example of how our Constitution republic is supposed to work, they allow the democrats and their state-run media lackeys to portray us as demotivational speakers.

  • lineholder

    .

  • GopTiger

    That is so unfair. My “masters”… Come on, you are better than that.

    I actually agree with you about these God-awful 10 year plans. Thats why I’m not willing to die on the CCB hill. Key components of it can easily be undone by the next Congress.

  • runner12

    dying breed ( thank God ). But we do have quite a few pro-life statists and/or big government, go-along-to-get-along Republicans who need to go. I am just as focused at ousting them as I am the liberals.

  • doncorleone

    Almost forgot, heard rustlings thru the trees about h.b. 4646 getting another look, is that true?

  • acat

    So …. that’d mean no CCB undoing until what, 2015?

    The ‘B’ part, the BBA, should be working its’ way through the States by then.

    Mew

  • Aaron Gardner

    And I am really interested in you answer to acat below.

  • avgjo

    Your plan is a lot better than Boehner’s. At least you’re not handing the keys to an oligarchy, which is what Boehner’s commission does.

    I will remember all the House Republicans who capitulate on this in ’12. I cannot root for a party that has clearly demonstrated a willingness to turn on its base to appease the MSM, RINOs and the cocktail crowd in D.C. Will I support them? Yes. Will I vote Republican? Of course. Just don’t expect me to get too excited. Boeher, West, all those of their ilk disgust me and I will not forget.

    I remember when Boehner capitulated on the CR, everyone was telling me, this isn’t the fight to focus on, the debt ceiling and ’12 budget are. I told them that if he caved once, he’d do it again. Now, he’s caved twice. All that does is make it even likelier nothing will change.

    As far as any Republican better than any Democrat, I have never bought into that idea. As far as I’m concerned, a RINO does far more damage than a dim; the dims are upfront about who they are. The RINOs disappoint, cause conservatives to stay home, and give dims more rope to hang liberty with.

  • GopTiger

    You have me confused with someone else.

    I don’t think the Boehner Plan is going to pass.

    Neither will CCB.

    Obama will not sign ANY plan than in ANY way limits spending. His words are just a pretense for the mushy independents.

    However, we-the GOP- can at least say to the public we actually passed two plans,and Reid and Obama were so unflexible they would not vote for either.

    Frankly, I’m where I have been for quite some time-I think there will be NO PLAN and Obama will raise the debt ceiling unilaterally.

    Instead of us going after each other about CCB or Boehner’s plan, I think we all shoud start preparing for this outcome.

  • acat

    and then, who do so only by attempting to bloviate the opposition to death, more often causing boredom and laughter.

    Mew

  • Scope

    Aliens would be considered God’s creatures, not necessarily of the human makeup. I think Kucinich has been attending too many Ouija Board parties, and thinks his departed loved ones are the aliens coming back to talk to him in sign language, in a seance. ET phone home, Dennis and the politicians need your advice.

  • Scope

    a brain freeze. I don’t know what you mean. Please explain.

  • carolina

    is the way to go. He said the point of the select committee is to FORCE the senate to cut. “The dysfunctional senate” is the problem per Ryan
    .
    I don’t understand what they are going to do when the Boehner Bill fails in the senate. Ryan bashed the Reid plan of gimmicks.
    So, Reid plan won’t pass the House. They must have some kind of secret plan for the Conference to resolve the differences between the plans.
    Maybe they have ‘stacked’ the Conference committee?

  • carolina

    is the way to go. He said the point of the select committee is to FORCE the senate to cut. “The dysfunctional senate” is the problem per Ryan
    .
    I don’t understand what they are going to do when the Boehner Bill fails in the senate. Ryan bashed the Reid plan of gimmicks.
    So, Reid plan won’t pass the House. They must have some kind of secret plan for the Conference to resolve the differences between the plans.
    Maybe they have ‘stacked’ the Conference committee?

  • GopTiger

    I work under different assumptions than some.

    I think all of our angst over CCB or Boehner’s Plan or the McConnell Plan is simply misguided. We shouldn’t be ripping each other and good conservatives over this.

    Why?

    Because Obama isn’t going to sign any plan that cuts any spending.

    It was never in the cards to begin with. All his talk was just that-talk!

    I’m more than willing to admit I could be wrong, but I’m sure come Aug. 2 Obama is simply going to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling and claim the Congress is so dysfunctional he had no choice. He thinks he can win that public relations battle.

    Obama doesn’t realize this won’t save his presidency.

    And when he begins to act like the dictator of a banana republic by unilaterally raising the debt ceiling, it will be a huge winner for the GOP in 2012.

  • Spiral

    Francis,

    Yes. I understood your “a way around the impasse” post as supporting a monthly extension to accomplish 2 things:

    [1] Avoid going over the cliff.

    [2] Keeping the debate over debt and spending in the public eye.

    I tend to agree, although I think that even if the extension was longer, Obama and the Democrats would still be on the defensive due to the sluggish economy and high unemployment.

    However, if you were a betting man and you were in Las Vegas right now, what do you think the likelihood would be of a deal between Obama, Reid and the GOP on entitlements?

    I would say it would be pretty low. The Democrats want that issue for the 2012 elections. They won’t give it up. It’s their only hope (besides the country going over the cliff.)

  • acat

    The actual drop dead date keeps moving, y’see. Obama’s already said it’s closer to Aug. 10th, and that’s what, the 5th revision?

    Obama’s birthday gala is Aug. 4th, IIRC. Wouldn’t it be just terrible for all the people who are so worried about a fiscal crisis to *still be worrying* when Obama throws a massive shindig to celebrate himself?

    The result of the House and Senate passing nothing is a 40% cut at an uncertain future date. Anything – literally *ANYTHING* including CCB – is better for Obama than complete inaction.

    The longer we hold the line, the more worried the Commander in Chief in Training gets. Let the {illegitimately born individual} sweat. Who knows, maybe he’ll decide to retire early!

    Mew

  • acat

    Some of us don’t have good memories for specific bill numbers, eh?

    Mew

  • acat

    Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘Press On’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.
    —Calvin Coolidge

  • Spiral

    Because Obama isn?t going to sign any plan that cuts any spending.

    It was never in the cards to begin with. All his talk was just that-talk!

    I agree. And it reminds me of an Elton John song from wa–aay back in the early 1970s, when I was about six years old.

    Trying to get Democrats to cut spending is like

    It’s like trying to find gold in a silver mine.

    It’s like trying to drink wiskey, oh, from a bottle of wine.

    That’s why I was never enthusiastic about this show down. A lot of too-ing and frow-ing and very little savings for the US taxpayer.

  • Spiral

    I don?t understand what they are going to do when the Boehner Bill fails in the senate. Ryan bashed the Reid plan of gimmicks.
    So, Reid plan won?t pass the House. They must have some kind of secret plan for the Conference to resolve the differences between the plans.

    Yep. This has been the problem all along. The Senate has been like a friggin’ statue during this whole event, just loud sounding nothingness coming from that deliberative body.

    I’m afraid that in the long run, the Senate’s delay results in a conference bill, worked up between the Senate and House, that is even more watered down than Boehner’s. Then we have to wonder if that can get passed both the House and the Senate.

    That’s the Democrat plan. Under Clinton during the Lewinsky scandal it was deny, deny, deny. Under Obama and Reid the strategy is delay, delay, delay.

  • gekster

    we elected these people to go into Washington to stop the spending.
    They could have done it the last time we had this situation,
    and they said no, we will do it later.

    Well, IT IS LATER!

    If we let them tell us again that they can do it later, well,
    fool me once, shame on you.
    Fool me twice, shame on me.

    We are tired of our leadership not standing up to fight for us,
    since that is what the majority of them ran on to get elected in the first place.
    How many times do we here, “I will go to Washington and fight for you”,
    only to see them NOT fight for us.
    They may not wnt to toe the line, but if we don’t make them toe it now,
    just when will we.
    And when these congresscritters don’t do what they temselves promised us they would do, it is up to us to make them live and legislate to the promises they made to us.
    And calling them out on that simple but important fact is our job.
    If we don’t, then just who will.

  • Aaron Gardner

    You are telling people to get in line with the Boehner plan just so it can be vetoed. Why? It is a crappy bill. There is no sense in putting our names on it if it is both crappy and won’t ever be signed.

    If you really believe that Obama will unilaterally raise the debt ceiling using some extra-constitutional authority then you should be happy holding the line on CCB.

    By putting up crappy bills you just poison the pool of public perception and give Obama an out.

    This isn’t brain surgery.

  • Scope

    was and has been all along, while Obama and Reid still have the reigns in two of the three houses, and nothing, absolutely nothing, can happen without those two houses, we take whatever we can get, without going backwards. It is very great and wonderful to stand on conservative principles all the way, but, when those stands only are symbolic, and there is no chance of passing anything near to what conservatives want, get the very best deal you can out of the Libs, without going backwards. I agree Boehner’s plan sends us backwards, and he gives up way to much for the sake of bipartisanship. The idea is that in 2012, if we send more reinforcements to Washington, Boehner can and hopefully will be replaced as the speaker. For any Republican, running for the House or Senate, one question must be asked of every candidate, will you support Boehner or McConnell back into Republican leadership positions? If they say yes, or vaccilate in any way, don’t vote for that candidate in the primaries.

    Why is it that the Democrats never burn their members in the public square? They find a primary opponent, fund him/her, do all that is necessary to elect the opponent, and send the turncoat back home, with no real fanfair. OTOH, it is starting to feel to me that the recalcitrant Republicans, such as Boehner, Cantor, and in some cases all the Republicans in the House are being painted as the dumbest boxes of rocks in Washington. How does that help the Republicans win in 2012 when they are just total idiots? There really is an element out there claiming that the Republicans are no better or different than the Democrats. Are we trying to help them along with the start of a third party? It should be a real and serious concern for all Republicans, as we know what third party Republican leaning movements have done with Ross Perot. We got Clinton out of that mess, and he still won’t shut the heck up.

  • doncorleone

    Was a bill introduced by rep. chaka fattah, d. Pa. 2. It was a bill that proposed a 1% tax on all transactions. I didn’t think that it went anywhere, maybe they are trying to re-introduce it.

  • GopTiger

    I actually think its far better politics (if I can engage is something so grubby on a political website) for the GOP to pass several bills so they can clearly point out just how intractable Obama and Reid were.

    Just about every Republican can say he or she voted for CCB.

    Then they can say “when the President rejected CCB we gave him something a bit more and he still rejected that”…

    You are right-it is not brain surgery. It is far more complicated.

    By the way, do I have to be in Boehner’s trousers? I mean, there are several attractive women in the House and if I’m going to be someone’s toady, could I at least beholden to someone a bit more acceptable to me (forgive me for the levity).

  • gekster

    Deposits, withdrawles, checks, debit and credit cards, transfers.
    Anything that involves money and a bank.
    Is that the one you speak of.

  • Aaron Gardner

    I don’t understand why you don’t see that you are giving Obama an out. Ask the Speaker to unzip so you can see more clearly.

  • OccamsRazor

    Albeit our dollar’s reserve status. BO now has two legacies which future generations will read about in disdain and from learn-obamacare and President downgrade.

  • gekster

    sorry, couldn’t help myself. LOL :)

  • doncorleone

    It’s supposed to replace fed. income tax. I think they all need to follow the sage advice of apollo creed, “be a thinker not a stinker”.

  • gekster

    nt nt nt nt…….

  • baserunr

    passed 2 plans:

    The Ryan budget, and CCB,

    So now we do a 3rd budget plan? And maybe a 4th? All of which Obama et al pronounce as doomed. Johnny B needs to remind the public of only a few facts….

    1) the Dem Senate has not passed a budget in over 2 years
    2) the Constitution requires all spending bills to originate in the House (got to have a bit of theater!)
    3) Obama’s plan failed 97-0.
    4) The House will have sent multiple bills for action. All have been killed in the Senate. That’s where the problem lies.

  • acat

    I mean, I’m not gonna get paid in ca$h no matter how much I might want to – so my direct-deposited cheque will lose 1%, and then I’ll lose another 1% when I withdraw it all, put it in my pocket, and live ca$h-only…

    “But what will you do for investments, acat?” Simple. Jewelry and silverware. Gold jewelry of reasonable quality and – ideally – used pieces in outdated styles. Silver serving pieces and silverware, again used and in outdated styles.

    Mew

  • acat

    (using a golf metaphor for Obama)

    Option 1: The Paul Ryan roadmap. I confess, I’ve forgotten whether the GOP passed that, or just kicked it around some, but .. it’s *written*, it’s “shovel ready”.

    Option 2: Cut, Cap, and Balance. Again, the GOP have already passed this. It’s ready for anyone who wants to read it to do so. Nothing hidden.

    Option 3: 40% immediate cut due to nothing getting past the Senate and Obama.

    I think giving Obama and Reid three choices is quite enough, don’t you, Aaron?

    Mew

  • acat

    You owe me a bottle of brain bleach.

    Mew

  • gekster

    He did say a woman, just didn’t say which one, his fault.
    And I got half a botttle of scotch, if that will do.

  • acat

    “Don’t give us none of your aggravation
    We had it with your discipline
    Saturday night’s alright for fighting”

    I’ve had just about enough of the RINO nonsense, insisting that somehow, because the Dems won’t capitulate, we must. It’s a false choice.

    The Dems don’t *want* to capitulate, but .. what happens if we just do nothing?

    Not much on Elton John. How about some David Byrne?

    “Watch out, you might get what you’re after
    Cool babies, strange but not a stranger.
    I’m an ordinary guy.
    Burning down the house.”

    We’ve teed up three options – see below. Let Obama and Reid pick one of them. Teeing up more is just wasting trees.

    Mew

  • gekster

  • Tbone

    could do that kind of stuff, my dog would have already jacked my Z4.

  • Bill S

    (just to show my age here…)

  • acat

    “Glamour Boys” by Living Colour.

    Check out the lyrics and tell me it’s not a good fit. (no, it’s not their best work)

    Mew

  • gekster

  • gekster

    Six angels sent from Heaven to make me happy.
    And the do.
    Sailing, from A New Journey

  • acat

    “The glamour boys have it all under control
    Always dancing always laughing
    The glamous boys are playing the role
    The glamour boys never have no money
    The glamour boys wear the most expensive clothes
    The glamour boys are always at the party
    Where the money comes from heaven only knows”

    “The glamour boys have it all figured out
    A very, very dubious position
    When you got no clout”

    “The glamour boys’ whole life is a gamble
    They might get over or fall flat on their face
    But if one does, there’s no need to worry
    Another g-boy will take his place”

    “The glamour boys don’t think about tomorrow
    The glamour boys just need tonight to play
    But just like things you can’t afford on credit
    Time catches up and you have to pay”

    Mew

  • gekster

    But after reading the words, you are correct.

  • audax

    ….nt

  • acat

    *as interpreted by Dana Carvey, that is.

    We can disagree on many things and still work together toward common goals, gekster.. and that’s a good thing.

    Mew

  • Adjoran

    we can never win against the Democrats.

    People need to remember who the enemy is. If you don’t want to be a part of the Republican Party, that is certainly your choice. Go ahead and form or join a third party. Only one of two things WILL happen:

    Either you pull enough support away from the GOP to throw the election to Obama, or you disappear like every single third party in American history since the Republicans supplanted the Whigs.

    Which of those outcomes helps the country, or solves the problems?

    Boehner’s plan was seriously flawed. He needs more cuts in the early years, caps to enforce the cuts going forward, and to lose the committee idea. It’s never worked before, and won’t work now.

    But that doesn’t make Boehner a RINO. And it is frankly stupid the way the term is thrown around. It does not reflect well upon the people doing it, and they are not serving America’s interests with their internecine battles.

    It is good to disagree and argue your positions. When the first argument is always, “I didn’t get my way – that makes you a RINO who must be driven from the Party!” it shows you’re just not intelligent enough to sell your beliefs to fellow conservatives, how will do it to the public?

    Here’s a clue: it doesn’t matter how right you think you are, nobody’s mind is EVER changed by the guy screaming and poking his finger in your chest while flecks of spittle fly about.

  • runner12

    You are essentially saying the same thing. You are changing your argument now. On every post you have agreed with Spiral, et al. to accept the Boehner plan.

    I am really, really trying hard to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not a troll. But when you shift you argument midstream when someone calls you out it makes it harder.

  • averagevoterdotcom

    Erick – you assume that Obama is of sound mind.

    Erick – you assume that Obama – in Rush’s words – is not a saboteur.

    Erick – you assume that taking this tactical situation to the brink will inure to our benefit next November.

    Erick, I see Obama as immoral, sociopathic, arrested-development, father-and-mother-less, abandoned, angry-child, wanting to get back at his father and the world for his life wounds. He has shown no regard for the law, the Constitution, others’ plights, and is downright dangerous.

    I see this situation as a single move in the middle of this chess game. We are not down to a few pieces on the board.

    We are in the middle of the 2nd quarter of this football game. We are not in the two-minute warning.

    Do not let pride get in the way of better judgment.

  • averagevoterdotcom

    may be more applicable to Obama.

  • runner12

    Goptiger, I meant to amend my comments to remove the word “troll” but my internet crashed and when it came back up the original comment sent rather than the amended one.

    I apologize.

    But I still am confused by your lack of consistency with your position, I must admit.

  • jccbin

    JSobieski, I’d much prefer CCB AND the Ryan Budget. The Amendment is the important thing here. If ratified, it cuts the big spenders off at the knees. Then one can apply Ryan’s budget if you like. The elegance of the Amendment is the simplicity, it’s readable for normal people. It’s clear and understandable to citizens who will ratify it. Federal budgets are for wonks.

    Ryan being right on most things doesn’t make him right on Boehner I,II or IX. He still thinks like a politician, if a conservative one. If the balanced budget amendment and these cuts got passed and signed, every Republican could lose their office and we’d still have won the day. Because then, the budget is limited, and that limitation counteracts many of the factions that currently get to spend as they wish. They will have to justify their existence, and many will fail.

    References to the bloody and horrid French revolution are intended to scare you, the pols, and anyone else whose subconcious notion is to get along. It’s a mark of high honor for America that half a dozen congresspeople haven’t been hung in public, as at least that many have committed high crimes and destroyed millions of lives (I’m looking at you, Barney Frank, and you (ret.) Chris Dodd).

    We are perilously close to a bloody revolution, French or American. We’ve had our “Let them eat cake” moment: “everyone has to eat their peas.” We haven’t seen real justice dealt to a corrupt politician of stature in decades. It’s been country club prisons or early retirement to lobbying firms or censure. There is nothing French about a good public hanging.

    “Every politician is like a carpenter given a hammer: everything becomes a nail.” Without a deep understanding that 95 percent of his job is to get out of the way, most politicians commence to hammering. That is where fear of the people comes in for the majority of dense-skulled pols. The people already have the solutions to poverty, welfare and retirement. Get your gov’t out of our way. Or we might smash your dense skull in lieu of letting you use incumbency to win another election.

    With all that said, this viewpoint is moderated by those who are kinder, more respectful. Note that moderation is the result, not the starting point. As in all good negotiation, in making you pull me toward you, I’ve pulled you toward me. As Peggy Noonan wrote a few months back ( I paraphrase): If political views were a yardstick, with the most liberal on the 36″ mark and the most conservative at the other end, then, for years the Democrats have not budged from the 34″ mark while Republicans have begun every negotiation from the 18″ line and wondered why we saw every compromise as a loss.

    Now, rarely, the Reps started at their end of the yardstick, refused to budge and gave the Dems a taste of their own medicine. Until they decided to give in again and move to the 18″ line. From there, the Dems will ‘compromise,’ because every compromise is a victory for them.

    No. No. No. If contemplation of bloody revolution scares them into right action where pleas, prayers and pondering has failed, so be it. A tyranny of laws is still tyranny and must be rejected as strongly as a mad dictator.

  • SirGladiator

    As pathetic as this Boehner bill is, what makes it even worse is we have such a HUGE WINNER in CCB, a bill that’s been poll-tested and has the support of 2/3 of the American People! Why on planet earth would anybody want to abandon it, even if Boehner’s bill were BETTER, instead of considerably worse like it actually is? There’s just no logical reason to abandon our most popular, and best, bill for this pathetic excuse for a compromise. A compromise that, at the end of the day, likely will be rejected by the Senate and result in yet another compromise or two before the Dems finally decide they’ve gotten enough from us. If they want to reject a bill and shut the Government down, make it the one the American People strongly favor, CCB all the way!

  • jccbin

    They are amorphous embodiments of narcissism, sociopathy, and the kind of children who demand complete adoration as they do the most unadorable things, all in an amazingly human-looking Amoeboid Sac.

  • http://pocketchangeproductions.net/ anotherindyfilmguy

    it’s called “inside the beltway of Washington D.C.”…

  • snowshooze

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/1083285905001/best-bets-for-ending-debt-talks-deadlock/

  • zooboy

    It is amazing how quickly all these closet RINOs jump in to refute with the first several comments immediately after Erick’s original, and correct, post. Makes me wonder if some of these people are being paid for doing this.

  • http://www.sheetanchor.org Sheet Anchor

    All they had to do was stand firm on CCB. Like Trump says, when you negotiate you have to walk away from the table to win. Boehner should have walked away after CCB. And went out and explained the situation to the American people who are behind CCB by 66%.

    He gave up all the leverage by signaling to the Dems he would never walk away from the table. When your opponent knows you will not walk away from the table, you lose. You cannot negotiate out of fear.

    Now the only way to recover is if the Dems actually do reject Boehner?s debt deal as all of them have promised in their letter. They will then send Reid?s bill to the House. And if the House Republicans get one more shot at it, they need to stand on the Ryan Budget, and CCB again ? and walk away from the table. Then tell the American people that the Dems refuse to pass a the Ryan budget, CCB, or a BBA – and stay away from the table until the Dems accept CCB.

  • davesinsanantonio

    The person receiving that Social Security check!!!

    Not all government is bad. We need roads, mail delivery, national defense, to name just a few governmental needs.

    What we don’t “need” is a government nanny state to tell us what to eat, what to drive, what to fuel it with, nor to get in the way of us making the money to pay for those things.

    So, government is necessary, but certainly it is not the end all that liberals believe it should be. If the government shuts down, some things would get better, others would get worse. Hopefully, the American people would be able to figure out which is which and vote for those who would get rid of the bad or unnecessary parts and bolster the effective and required parts.

    Maybe we will get a chance to see.

  • davesinsanantonio

    If you keep backing down from your principles and campaign promises, then how do you “sell your beliefs” “to the public”???

    If you don’t believe in them enough to “hold the line”, how can you get anyone else to believe in them???

  • patlandy

    It got the votes it did because leadership and Washington insiders knew it wasn’t going anywhere while it provided a platform for the pseudo supporters to go on record for the next election. That is the reason leadership does not stand up and demand a vote in the Senate.

  • edintexas

    Do you happen to know that Spiral’s real given name is “Erick”, or is this a general comment mistakenly left as a reply to Spiral?

  • edintexas

    Surely you aren’t implying that Republican Party “Leadership” decisions, like spending an extra $10 million on the California Senate race by What’s Her Name might have been better used to help some other Republicans win their contests?

    And I didn’t call you Shirley.

  • gunslingr45

    maybe they can join the GOP circular firing squad? maybe they can just surrender to each other and that way no one gets hurt and the demorats can use them for whipping boys?
    just a thought.

    HOLD THE LINE for our children?s sake!

  • gunslingr45

    I love Ronnie but these people who sell out for ice cream (Lugar is one, I tell him all the time) need to be called what they are which is Republicans In Name ONLY!

    HOLD THE LINE for our children?s sake!

  • gunslingr45

    Owe me a new keyboard!

    Know Liberals/RINO?S, Know Despair.
    No Liberals/RINO?S, No Despair.

  • jpmhofct

    Democrats love to refer to ‘The Party of No”. Has the Democratic Senate passed or even responded to pass the House budget which is a basic requirement of a resposible government. NO!
    They did, however, reject the budget Obama submitted 197-to-0.
    Boehner has no basis for expecting his plan to be passed by the Senate or if passeed to be signed by Obama.
    The House passed A BUDGET AND passed THE CUT, CAP AND BALANCE bill.
    Both REJECTED BY THE DEMOCRATIC SENATE.
    Shouldn’t that mean THE BALL IS IN THEIR COURT.
    The SENATE must pass a version of ONE OR THE OTHER to get the House to do anything.

    Thr message needs to be:
    THE HOUSE IS STOPPING DEFICIT SPENDING NOW!!
    IF THE DEBT CEILING RISES IT CAN’T ADD TO THE DEFICIT!

  • jpmhofct

    It is nonsence to think that the Democrats in the Senate can stop the bills the house passed that are clearly likely to reverse deficit “Tax and Spend” but can be forced next time.
    Fool me once ok, you can be forgiven.

    However, allow yourself to be fooled again and you do not deserve to be in office no matter how hard you tried before being duped again.
    THE 2011 election is close at hand and 2012 is just around the corner, You should realize the radical liberal, progressive drive toward socialism sees this as a fight to the death for Their Cloward /Plevin” strategy to “tax and spend” to criple our free enterprise economy-.
    IF NOT YOU ARE IGNORING WHAT IS HAPPENING..

    SADLY IT IS TIME TO FIGHT WITH A DETERMINATION THAT EXCEEDS THEIRS AND IF WE ARE DEFEATED VOTERS WILL OUST ALL WHO CAVED AND DID NOT FIGHT.

  • jpmhofct

    This whole issue of the debt ceiling is ignoring the Democrats liberral/progressive – Cloward/Piven stategy t5o weaken the free enterprise economy of USA so as to hasten Government’s total control of the economy and advance a socialist system.
    They fully reco0gnize the 2010 election of the Republicans to the majority in the House which led to the Ryan budget passing and the Cut,Cap and Balance bill passing signal this is a poitentially fatal b low to their TAX & DEFICIT SPEND approaches to government.

    They will not agree to anyrthing that stops that approach without a fight to the death.
    Republicans who seek to reverse the deficit situation must fight with at least as much determination.
    If they cave in and allow the Democrats to continue through the end of Obama’s term they will see themselves facing primary challenges to find those who will fight- along with a new president and a new majority in the Senate – hopefully, also elecrted , to reverse this destructive course we have been following under the Obama administration and unfortunately even under the prior Republican administation of increasing DEFICITS AND DEBT.
    .