The Closing Argument: We Are Filthy Hobbitses

bornafterreagan

He told a National Review reporter “this could be the last train leaving the station.”

fpete13527

This is the fight that matters.

izoneguy

Because once that train leaves the station, it will all end in disaster.

http://www.sheetanchor.org Sheet Anchor

We will not yield in this fight for our great nation. Like United States Marines, stay on the offensive, and keep attacking.

chipshirley

Debt Ceiling Repair
The Simple Truth is…
life is not simple

and that’s a fact.? We all wish it was but it’s not and we just about shoot ourselves in the foot every time we jolt too strongly in one direction or the other. There are gigantic emergencies like the Great Depression and World War II that called for big social moves like the drastic increase on taxation of the wealthy (up to 70% to 90%) but that was largely due to WWII. We kept those taxes for a few more decades and that revenue allowed us to do most of the great industrial accomplishments in the history of our country from 1940-1980. We dropped the taxes as severely as we’d raised them in 1980, but we’ve gotten by fine, but we have fallen into debt and let our infrastructure get run down and out dated. We have to fix ourselves up and modernize as a nation and there are some projects so large that they must be led by a government. How do you think we did it before and how Germany and China do it today? You don’t have to be a communist to have a great railroad.

http://thedixiedove.com/

baserunr

and the tracks go nowhere, Congressman Flake. Get on the train if you must, but there is no way it doesn’t end in disaster. Anyone else would know with the flood of spending that the bridge would be out. You go on pretending that the rain wasn’t really rain,it was just clouds, and so everything is just fine.
It is only necessary to get 4 more Senators to sign on to CCB. How about Tester, Nelson, McCaskill, and Conrad? Could it be done if you spent as much effort on them as you are expending worrying about catching the train?

lizfstone

to be optimistic that CCB will prevail, I’m beginning to think it is all theater and the American taxpayer is once again the pawn.

I think Boehner’s frustration is that he already has a deal with Barry and Harry but now those pesky conservatives are preventing him from delivering on his promises.

God protect WE THE PEOPLE from the deals being made to buy votes to pass this mess.

If CCB fails, Boehner and Cantor no longer have my faith and trust.

__t_i_m_o_t_h_y__

Boehner must step down as Speaker. He has failed as a leader of conservative principles.

clarioncaller

We have leaders…President…Congressional and Senate leaders who are going to be responsible for costing taxpayers hundreds of billions for years to come with our reduced credit rating/Increased borrowing costs.And they sit there with the reality staring them in the face…and let it happen.Unforgivable

http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

We need to start acting like Jim Demint and actually go knock on some doors and recruit conservative candidates.

sarg01

You’re eliminating your ability to make the bill better.

When you say “make this $850 billion cut into $1.2 trillion and I’ll vote for it” – that helps move the discussion forward and strengthen the bill.

When you say “I won’t vote for anything, because CCB already passed” – you’re putting yourself out of reach and Boehner will has to ignore you and add one more allegedly-moderate Dem to support the bill. This means weakening the bill.

http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

If Boehner wants a Super Commission then let him and McConnell name the members now. Let us hear who the conservative nominees will be.

bigredone

2013? 2015? 2017?

If we continue to give away the treasure of these assembled States, the correct answer is never.

The time to fight is now. This is the issue to make our stand.

banzaibob

But I know all the cuts Reid and Boehner are just smoke and mirrors. If they were serious they would start cutting now. Cut back on spending, layoff some federal workers, etc.

Also I don’t want anymore commisions that the politicians can hide behind. Do your job, thats what we pay you for.

Academic Elephant

That the question everyone in DC is asking is “What have they got in their pockets-es?”

(I know, I know, I stole it from Crank, but it seemed to fit.)

Paul Seale

Before and after CCB vote.

McCaskill voted against the will of Missourians during the health care debate and is so now.

For her, it matters not.

ghostship

If the Establishment Republicans get their way and pass the Speaker’s plan then they will never stand and fight.

If the Republican’s cave to the Democrats now then they will never stand up to them.

HOLD THE LINE! STAND AND FIGHT!

sarg01

Our focus should be on limiting the damage of the Obama administration … and then limiting the duration of the Obama administration.

We’ve repudiated Obama 4 times on this issue, and if we pass the Boehner plan, it will be a 5th.

1) Obama’s initial deficit position was “let the Bush tax cuts expire on job creators” last December. He didn’t get that, despite having the Senate and veto power. Is that not fighting?

2) Then he submitted his budget. We tarnished the idea of big spending so effectively, not a single Senate Dem was willing to vote for it. That’s not just fighting, it’s domination.

3) Then he demanded a “clean” debt ceiling increase. Basically, he insisted we couldn’t even have the current discussions. But we defied his demand, and even got the Dems to do so as well.

4) Then he demanded tax increases and threatened to veto anything without them. Is he getting his tax increases? No, he’s not … not even in the Reid plan. Again, we won.

5) His one final line in the sand was that he won’t sign anything that doesn’t extend the ceiling beyond the elections. The Reid bill gives him this by spuriously claiming the reductions in defense spending from already-scheduled troop reductions as part of his plan. The Boehner plan doesn’t do this.

If we win this battle of Boehner over Reid, we will have repudiated EVERY ONE of Obama’s budget stances this year. We’ll have guaranteed another showdown early next year … and thus an opportunity for more cuts.

Is it permanently fixing the problem? Of course not. But there’s no permanent fix without the BBA, and a BBA can’t pass this Congress.

We’re doing what we can – and what we can is already a lot. We’ve moved the throttle from Full Speed Ahead on spending to arguments over whether cuts are fake or not. Win in 2012 and we can put the throttle on Full Reverse.

Paul Seale

How much more could we have “got” by saying – the bill is a start, but here is what needs to be fixed?

Boehner was man enough to pull the bill and rewrite it when he found it did not do what he said it would.

We should pressure to ensure there are checks on that committee to ensure that it does not become out of control, as many govt agencies do.

However, to say CCB (which is dead in the senate) or nothing weakens our hand and tells the American voter that we really arent serious about solving the problem. Such rhetoric implies, as Obama’s “plan” which doesnt exsist, that we would rather engage in political theatre than doing the will of the people.

http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

who is helping the meme that Republicans are nothing but fakers when it comes to real fiscal restraint?

Thanks for nothing, Mr. Speaker.

PatriotForLiberty

We’re getting PWNED here. Look what happened when the FAA stopped collecting air ticket taxes (which are insane but that’s another subject). Did the airlines reduce fares? Heck no, they are keeping that money for themselves.

When crude dropped like a rock did pump prices go down equally? Heck no, the oil companies are keeping the difference.

If we get downgraded, at a minimum interest rates will go up 1% for everything, including mortgages and credit cards. We’re already in terrible financial shape with interest rates so high. Think the banks will try to help us? Heck no, they’ll just pass along these charges (plus a % for themselves).

We’re as angry as anyone at the shameful overspending and corruption in Washington, but to suggest that maybe default or losing our AAA credit rating might not be a big deal is suicidal. In addition to the huge increase in federal interest payments that will result (has anyone scored that in?), consumers already close to bankruptcy will be pushed over the edge with less available credit (which will happen) and higher interest rates (which they can’t afford).

Wal-Mart CEO Mike Duke:
Wal-Mart customers, he said, are running out of money at a faster pace. He sees it in end-of-the-month sales figures, when sales drop off more sharply than in the past. As for the drop-off in late month purchases, Duke calls it a growing concern at the retail giant. Wal-Mart customers typically live paycheck-to-paycheck and a drop in spending is viewed as a barometer of the overall economy.

We think that for one election win, our team has done an amazing job of refocusing the government. But if anyone thinks anyone is looking out for us we respectfully disagree. We’ll see in a week what happens; if interest rates jump and the markets drop 10%, the politicians still have their jobs and big business just passes the costs along (and profits from it). And we, the struggling taxpayers, will be hurt deeply with higher costs on everything. And our team will get the blame when 401(k)s drop and credit card rates go over 25%. Please, consider letting the Democrat Party raise it and be responsible for this or our team will be seen as PWNING America and the great momentum we’ve built up will be lost.

Paul Seale

If they want the commission – make sure part of getting a vote means having someone like Rep Jordan or Sen Lee on the commission (or both) as part of the deal.

Paul Seale

Boehner is fixing the bill – I pray that it will cut more than Ried’s bill.

We needed the CBO report to make sure that any such deal is legit and works.

However, at least Boehner was man enough to rework the bill instead of trying to amend it to appeal to Democrats and push it through that way.

http://online.logcabin.org/about/ suzieQ

As Michelle Bachmann and other great conservatives have already said, there is no reason to raise the debt ceiling at all. Push CCB through the Senate. Pass the Balanced Budget Amendment. But DO NOT raise the debt ceiling. Do not increase the borrowing amount on the government’s credit card. Do not continue to let them spend more. They already call us the “party of no”. It is time to actually start saying “no”. Say no to raising the debt ceiling under any circumstances.

Instead of giving them more money to spend, it is time to cut spending. Cut entitlement programs like medicare, medicaid, welfare, and food stamps. Cut fnding for Planned Parenthood. Cut funding for Obamacare. Cut, cut, cut. Not spend, spend, spend.

clarioncaller

If Boehner is going to rely on Democrat votes to jam this down Republican throats….he can rely on Democrat votes to try to retain his Speakership after November 2012.

Simpleton

I really hope you folks are right about this deficit business. My wife and I are both retired and living on a fixed income. When the economy cratered when the half-breed stole the election we were in a really bad way. My wife has some health issues from a stroke she suffered 4 years ago and we need to get goverment the damn hell out of her medicare. We can barely make ends meet if everything goes right and if we have to pay taxes so some jungle woman can have 50 illigitimate kids we’ll never make it. Now I’d rather eat dirt than see that mongrel re-elected but I can’t put my wife through those troubles again. And my boy was injured in an equipment accident during exercises and was discharged after his amputation annd can’t help us out like before.

I pray every morning, noon and night that Michele Bachmann will be elected and deliver us from this dark evil that currently resides in the WHITE House.

JSobieski

The discrepancy about the proper baseline (which explains the lower CBO score) is discussed at NRO

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/272814/wonk-city-yuval-levin

My point is simply to correct the factual record. The CBO has not scored Reid’s plan better than Boehner’s because Reid’s plan has not yet been scored.

sarg01

… if we had devoted our energies to making the bill better instead of demonizing it. Or we could have pushed for more of the cuts to be upfront. We probably could have insisted on getting at least to CCB’s 111 billion in upfront costs.

Too late for that now, though. The bill’s got to be marked up in committee in the next couple of hours. So at this point, it pretty much is what it is.

gekster

You should refraise your comment to reflect at least a modicum of respect.

http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

If Boehner has to spend more and more time slapping down the conservatives in his own caucus, he’s just a pretender, and the CBO gaffes are just an accessory after the fact.

msctex

You almost had me convinced you were actually spouting the kind of associate-professor level liberal boilerplate which got us into this mess to begin with. But that last line was so bad/good, it made me realize if you were really that dumb, you’d forget to feed yourself.

Keep it up!

JSobieski

The apples to apples comparison is best summarized below:

“But don’t look for Republicans to flock to Reid’s proposal. They have complained that nearly half the cuts in Reid’s proposal – $1 trillion – comes from ?winding down? of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Republicans have said this is a disingenuous way of counting money that would not have been spent anyway since the wars are already winding down.

Discretionary spending cuts in Reid’s proposal would result in $840 billion in lower authorized spending, the CBO report said this morning and $750 billion in actual lower outlays in the next ten years.

Speaker of the House Boehner?s plan, scored yesterday by the CBO found $850 in savings ? less than the Speaker had anticipated. Boehner has delayed a House vote originally scheduled for a vote today in order to find more savings, and rally more votes in the House for the plan.”

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/07/cbo-score-senate-plan-cuts-deficits-by-22-trillion-over-the-next-ten-years.html

To his credit Boehner didn’t include $1T in savings by ending the Iraq and Afghanistan wars to pad his numbers. If he did, the statement about the CBO scoring would be literally false. As it is, the CBO comparison is merely misleading and devoid of substance.

avgjo

It would help if those who run sites like RS and others would make a general proclamation: “We will support any conservative who challenges Boehner in the primary.”

Don’t forget the fop – Eric Cantor- either. He is complicit in all this.

__t_i_m_o_t_h_y__

He says, just freeze spending this year and that = 9.5 Trillion in “Cuts”

Boehner must go.

http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

Liar, too.

http://www.soccergaming.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1481019&postcount=14

“I’m in my 30′s and I’m 100% Democrat. ”

You’re never coming back here. Understood?

bigredone

If we don’t stand now, we never will.

Tell you what. Freeze spending at exactly the level of today.

Guess what the resultant savings total?

9.5 TRILLION!

All this talk of $1.2 Trillion in savings results in over $8 TRILLION more in spending.

Hold the line!

bigredone

Freezing at today’s level results in $9.5 TRILLION in savings over 10 years.

Anything less is just adding to the debt.

Hold the line! Cut, Cap, and Balance.

Bill S

that you are Gandalf?

It still works.

CMaree

“I know. It’s all wrong. By rights we shouldn’t even be here. But we are. It’s like in the great stories,… The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn’t want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer.
Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. [Erick], I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn’t. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something.
…there’s some good in this world… and it’s worth fighting for.

HOLD the LINE!

mkozikowski

Stand strong for Cut,Cap and Balance.

Stop with the gimicks. Conservatives were elected to do a job. One that is needed and has been needed for over 50 years.
One that every house and senate member has promised and ignored.

CCB is THE Only correct move here. It is Checkmate. It is the start of America’s rebirth. If you falter, America FAILS.

Simple, simple, simple.

All you have to do is stand behind the bill you already passed.

e_rowe

It’s not even worth having all these talks.

Just don’t raise the debt ceiling. Period. You don’t have to raise it, so don’t raise it, no matter what the package includes. If you want big cuts, then there’s nothing you can do that would ensure them better than just not raising the debt ceiling.

Why do so few elected Republicans get this?

shadowtax

occured only after the ring was destroyed.

Just sayin’

clarioncaller

Boehner is saying….”I’m one of them”.Just another politician who’s got us in this mess. He certainly doesn’t deserve the Speakership of the House.

Whats the worst thing that can happen…if Boehners plan doesn’t pass. We have the Cut Cap Spend bill that directly addresses our problem that we can take to voters in 2012 and say “we did what we could do…Democrats stopped us from helping”

Why do we have to demonstrate Republicans are just like the Democrats when it comes to spending ??

http://www.skiloveland.com skicougar

I was a little disappointed over the 100 billion dollar pledge amounting to squat, but i gave them a pass knowing they had to change a culture in DC and get past a democratic senate.

The Boehner plan amounting to squat has shown what reality is. The congressional GOP can still be bought, will do the minimum and the tea party people are either not enough to change that or are going along(I shudder to think of the future if its the later).

Face it, the economy is going to get worse, unemployment is going up, prices and inflation are going up and thats not going to change until 2012.

I’m hunkering down and trying to keep what I have until then. The optimism I had in November 2010 is gone and the pessimism I had in 2009 is back and here to stay.

http://www.skiloveland.com skicougar

I was a little disappointed over the 100 billion dollar pledge amounting to squat, but i gave them a pass knowing they had to change a culture in DC and get past a democratic senate.

The Boehner plan amounting to squat has shown what reality is. The congressional GOP can still be bought, will do the minimum and the tea party people are either not enough to change that or are going along(I shudder to think of the future if its the later).

Face it, the economy is going to get worse, unemployment is going up, prices and inflation are going up and thats not going to change until 2012.

I’m hunkering down and trying to keep what I have until then. The optimism I had in November 2010 is gone and the pessimism I had in 2009 is back and here to stay.

mkozikowski

Boehner is ‘Old School’ and must believe that this is his last hurra.

It is imperrative that he be removed from his position. He cannot or will not hold to the decision which put him in power.

That is to fix the problem. CCB fixes a lot. His plan(s) do continue as usual.

1 trillion savings over 10 years VS 2 trillion borrowing increase each hear.

That is a plan of weak failure.

americanmale

You’re absolutely right, that the AmericanTaxpayer is once again the pawn. We are all being taken for a ride. Here’s Why:

We hold the line with no debt limit increase: Pathetic ratings agencies downgrade us based upon credit limit and not on past payment history. Bond rates increase maybe to 5%….China and the Fed , Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan roll over their current holdings and immediately get a 100% increase on their original Return On Investment.

Debt Limit Gets Increased: .

Geithner holds an auction, Bernanke makes a computer entry and increases the money supply (prints money) to purchase our bonds (cause no one else is buying), Pathetic rating agencies downgrade us based upon mismanagement and diluted money supply. Bond rates increase. China, the Fed, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan roll their bonds over to the new interest rate thereby realizing a 100% increaase on their originally expected Return On Investment.

Result:

With Increased bond yields, China and the likes can begin offloading them to the world.

Bottom Line:

Current Bond Holders want a pay raise. The pathetic 2.xx% they are currently getting just doesn’t cut it in their minds.

ghostship

I’ve come to the opinion that the people saying we should support the Speaker’s plan and that it would be a win for the GOP just don’t care about the country. It’s only a political game to them. They don’t care about the long term effects their policy’s would bring. All they care about is short term political blame games.

Something must be passed so the GOP can claim a win. Who cares if it’s only smoke and mirrors and does next to nothing to address the real problem. It’s just a game.

We must appease the Senate and White House so the Republicans can pass something so WE must compromise our principles yet the same argument is never applied to the Democrats. I don?t hear anyone saying that Reid?s plan can?t pass the house and THEY need to compromise.

That’s because the principles this fight is over don’t matter to them. Only the game counts as far as they are concerned.

WE THE PEOPLE CARE!!!!!

WE THE PEOPLE WANT A SERIOUS EFFORT TO FIX THIS NATION’S FINANCES!!!!

WE DON’T WANT STUPID GAMES!!!

It?s ALWAYS us Conservatives who must bend their will to the Left but there is NEVER a call for them to bend to ours.

Well I?m saying what a lot of real Conservatives are thinking. It?s past time WE stand OUR ground and DEMAND some concessions from them.

If not now then when? If we don?t do it now we never will.

HOLD THE LINE! STAND AND FIGHT!

mkozikowski

Commissions are not the answer. We already have Senate and House representatives that MUST obey our command.

What power do We The People have over the commissions?

I guess commissions are to the House like Tsars are to the President.

bk

If it’s DeMint, Rubio, Lee, Jordan, Chaffetz, and Hensarling or some similar line-up, that wouldn’t be bad.

acat

That the Boehner “compromise” scores lower than the Reid one tells this cat two things.

First, Boehner is leaving money on the table. Can we at least get politicians into leadership who push for the best deal they can get? This is pathetic.

Second, Reid’s position is, obviously, in part a reply to CCB; so knowing how CCB compares is kind of an important detail.

Mew

funwithknives

or comic relief? A sly attempt to show Americans Vapidity, up close and personal? Why not Chaka Fattah? Bobby Rush? Michigan’s Own John (DSA) Conyers? (He’s my Favorite PROG., by far. So many deficiencies, so little time)
The time for commissions is past. BHO appointed one and ignored all of it. What else do you need shoved down your throat? It was Always just a stall and this proposal is no different.
WE’ve got a committee. It’s called our elected officials. If a committee is needed, let it focus on Congress’ job performance, similar to what many teachers have to undergo now. How about performance metrics on That Subject. Start on value for dollar and see where that tact goes.

e_rowe

Because they are.

The problem with this whole issue is that the only way the Republicans could actually have any leverage would be if they were really committed to not raising the debt ceiling. And with the exception of at most a dozen of them, they’re not. They desperately want to raise the debt ceiling, and they’re just posturing to make it look like they were somehow forced to do it against their will, like the guy who makes it look like he wants to fight someone, while putting a nonplussed friend in front of him to make it look like that friend is holding him back.

sarg01

That has nothing to do with the debt ceiling. And CCB has nothing remotely resembling 9.5T in cuts. In fact, there is no plan I’ve heard that does – Coburn’s is closest.

However, the bottom line is even our most conservative congresscritters haven’t proposed what you’re proposing. Ask yourself why not.

I do agree Rs should be making arguments relative to existing and even historical spending numbers. Spending $X worked in 2008, why is spending $X + inflation% + population growth% considered throwing grandma off a cliff. I think that’s a great argument that I wish we would make a lot more often.

I am an extremist. I really do want to see rollbacks of at least LBJ’s “Great Society”, and I’m pretty sure I want FDR’s New Deal mostly gone, as well. However, I’m also a realist. The American people don’t support me on that, and we’ll need to win some elections before we can even discuss things on those lines.

http://www.sheetanchor.org Sheet Anchor

and what Obama will say about them. So you know what, we need to start telling Republicans that if you will not stand up now and do the job we elected you to do, and that is, to stop the spending now, we will primary you out of your job next year. They need to understand that their fear is misplaced; they need not worry about the MSM, but rather we conservatives and the Tea Party – who will do everything in our collective power to stop the destruction of these United States.

clarioncaller

That’s what Speaker Boehner’s actions say. Yes I’m the Speaker now….but the message the voters sent…..STOP THE UNFUNDED SPENDING NOW …he refuses to hear the people . He has identified himself…he talks the talk…but heck no he won’t walk the walk(though he can fake it pretty well with a CUT CAP SPEND bill. He took a whole week before he ran away from it like it was toxic).Now he has defined himself.We must remember who stood up..and who ran away.

westbrook348

They just don’t want big cuts. They are scared to death of shrinking government & alienating the electorate. That’s why Boehner’s plan only has $1 billion in cuts for next year. The RINOs will try to argue “the cuts would be bigger but then the Senate Dems would never vote for it.” This is a lie. The cuts are so small, not because of the liberals, but because the GOP leadership wants them that small. That’s why you didn’t see any real cuts in government when we controlled House, Senate, & WH from 2002-2006. To these guys in charge of the GOP, a balanced budget isn’t something to work toward. It’s a fictional goal that can never be achieved because it requires too many politically painful choices. Sure, they play lip service to the idea of fiscal conservatism, but their actions prove that they’re not interested in it. Anyone who trusts the GOP establishment is a fool.

e_rowe

They positively don’t want to raise the debt ceiling. They positively like the power they have and want more, not less of it. They’re not small-government conservatives who are just buckling under the pressure. They’re yes-men for a grab bag of interest groups that have grown dependent on the role of the federal government in their respective industries.

I used to think that the Republican establishment was just always succumbing to political pressures when things like this happened. It was when I saw how they treated Ron Paul in 2008 that I realized, nope, that’s what they really are.

e_rowe

I wholeheartedly agree.

e_rowe

If not, we need to get on this.

ghostship

I hope there are primary challengers for all of the Republican leadership.

They’re all a bunch of losers and I would be glad to see them go.

Doc Holliday

Of course we should get the largest reduction we can get. But my personal goal is to see Obama out of office and Reid out of power. My “last stand” requires a victory at the polls.

We need to come out of this debt ceiling debate stronger, not weaker. Even if we do reduce the size of Obama’s government, it will still be a malignant threat to freedom. Even if we do defeat Obama in this stand off, he will take credit anyway and get plaudits from the MSM.

I am with those who want to reduce spending and reduce government. I am not with those who want to tear the Republican house down out of some internecine power fight.

bk

Apparently McCain has picked up on the hobbit line and she was asked about it. Her reply was (paraphrasing), “John McCain is not President because he wasn’t tough enough to show that he was much different than Obama, and we’re just seeing more of the same now.”

e_rowe

Who needs it?

Just vote not to raise the debt ceiling.

e_rowe

?

e_rowe

If he’s willing to do that, he should just do it.

If he’s not willing to do it, then he has no ability to get any other deal.

westbrook348

We desperately need a fiscal conservative in charge of the GOP.

GJ wants:
Balanced Budget ASAP
No more deficit spending
Abolish entire federal agencies
End wasteful federal war on drugs
Would vehemently oppose all tax hikes
Would roll-back job-killing regulation
Corporate tax rate of ZERO
Social issues decided by the states, not federal govt

I know everyone at RedState will now proceed to laugh at me. But I’m sick of watching Boehner as speaker. I’m sick of my GOP primary choices. I’m sick of RINOs & political games. I want a new direction for the GOP, because it’s the only way we get a new direction for our country.

banzaibob

Because i know the feds will spend more now and more later.

e_rowe

I like Johnson a lot. If Ron Paul weren’t running, I’d support Johnson without hesitation. As it is, I am more comfortable with Paul’s social conservatism.

But your prediction is correct. Prepare to get mocked. There are a lot of Red Staters who will pretend to hate the Boehners of the party right up until the time comes to support a serious proponent of limited government. Then, all of a sudden, guys like Boehner are their heroes.

westbrook348

Because Reid raises the debt ceiling much higher than Boehner does. Reid gets us past the election & into Jan 2013. Boehner’s bill is a short term increase with smaller cuts; theoretically they get more cuts when Obama comes back to congress to ask to borrow more.

In the end though, all the cuts are fake. There is no reduction in the deficit. Government spending will continue to increase. And we will keep having this debt ceiling fight year after year because our GOP leadership is gutless & disinterested in fighting for REAL spending cuts. To Boehner, it’s more important to get a deal than to get a good deal. We could’ve gone with Obama’s clean debt ceiling increase weeks ago & we wouldn’t be much worse off. I’m tired of this game.

powertothepeople

and yes we mock foolish supporters of fools like the two of you.

We will take a pass on supporting a high on weed nutcase, thank you very much.

powertothepeople

the idiot you support sure is a proponent of limited government all while cashing the pork checks he is such a fan of. And he is able to find time to cash those checks all while blaming the USA for the 9-11 attacks.

Pure ass idiot and when he retires, hopefully all his fools disappear right along with him. Pure embarrassment to normal republicans.

unclefred

The ‘B’ in CCB is the requirement to vote out a balanced budget amendment to the states. If we assume the 18% of GDP cap stays in the amendment, the states can enforce a pretty massive spending cut by ratifying the amendment.

That is what a “balanced budget” does. You spend what you take in. We’re currently spending 25% of GDP, at 18% you have cut spending by 32%. 32% of 3.5 trillion is 1.2 trillion dollars in a single year. It also eliminates mandated increases unless the economy grows enough to support them.

CCB gets a BBA to the states, which can end this spending very quickly.

bigredone

You missed the whole point.

CCB has passed the House. It is 1/3 of the way there. Everything else is a non-starter.

Freezing spending makes 9.5 TRILLIONS difference using the convoluted logic of the CBO. It is all out of whack. All of it.

If we give in on this, we will never stand for anything, and we will end up controlling nothing in 2013. I have never forgotten McCain giving in on TARP, or for that matter, Boehner’s ‘crap sandwich’ on the same question. Remember that famous line in the sand?

We never fight when we should fight, but now is the time to fight.

Hold FAST.

amigag

We had a great railroad; it’s now Amtrak, LOL

Get a grip!!

amigag

We have one here in Ohio, but he’s going to be taking S. Brown out:-) Josh Mandel, our State Treasurer and he literally knocked on doors. Has done a fantastic job is not only finding fraud but eliminating it and is saving the State a lot of money.

I’m sure if John Boehner follows thru on his plan and doesn’t hold the line, we’ll have Conservative volunteers.

amigag

I wouldn’t “d” the Country or anyone for that matter. Vote them out, just like 11/2/2010.

amigag

John Boehner was so eager to make a deal with Reid and the Administration that he presented a plan that wasn’t ready.

Saying he was “man” enough is using the wrong term to describe that decision. He had no choice in the matter, unless he wanted to ignore facts.

Away with any Committee!!!!!!!!!!!! You need to read some of what you try to give an opinion on. As I said to you before, you are all over the board and suggested you pick a side and stick with it.

The CCB is not dead in the Senate, it was never voted on or discussed, since it was tabled. However, the main point is that the CCB IS ALIVE IN THE HOUSE!! And that is what we mean by holding the line. Good grief, do you have to have everything explained to you??? I, for one get tired of your wishy washy comments!!

Get with the program and if Redstate is not to your liking, move on.

concap

I will throw any one from either side under the bus, to make sure that happens.

amigag

LOL, CC I don’t think it will be up to the House Dems tho.

Hold the line!!

amigag

Glad to see the much needed monitoring.

JSobieski

I support a BBA, but if you don’t think accounting gimics will get around it, I have some bridges to sell you.

The bottom line is that the only way to reduce spending is continuous political diligence to do so. No caps, amendments, commissions, etc are going to control spending. Only continued monitoring/management by the population will do that.

It will take years for the BBA to get through enough states, and by its very terms there is a phase in (the amendment is not immediately effective).

So basically the BBA is another outyear mechanism for reducing spending.

sarg01

… a vote that will fail. It won’t get within 10 votes in the Senate or 15 in the House.

You can’t get around the Constitutional requirement for a 2/3rds vote by passing a bill with 51%.

The BBA can not pass this Congress. Even if it somehow could, it would be years passing in 38 state legislatures.

We might have an outside chance at a BBA with a huge 2012 win. Realistically, 2014 will probably be necessary to pull that off.

sarg01

What makes you think it does?

http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

“Push CCB through the Senate.”

Really. And which 50 Senators will vote for this?

I like and was considering supporting Michelle Bachman, but the unreality behind this is troubling.

amigag

Thanks for stating the issue and the solutions in a clear way. I hope some of the “other” visitors commenting will take note:-)

As I said elsewhere, why should we compromise? The majority that they were given by the hard work of Conservatives/Tea Party/Redstate in time/work and money was not done so they could “compromise” away our values.

Great comments.

Christian

nt

amigag

There are a lot of Red Staters who will pretend to hate the Boehners of the party right up until the time comes to support a serious proponent of limited government. Then, all of a sudden, guys like Boehner are their heroes.

The opinion you stated above is first of all not true. How you can read just the threads of one day that Erick puts up and come away with that opinion is strange. Can you not read or not comprehend?

You are also wrong about Redstate hating anyone. Erick and other Conservatives disagree with policies that will harm the Country and the American people.

How you can say Redstate consider John Boehner is their hero is astounding to me.

All of those that comment on Redstate are guests. Be respectful and try to respond truthfully to what Erick has said.

powertothepeople

like what I type or feel it violates house rules, hit the contact button and sit back and wait for a reply. But do not presume to be a mod or my father.

Thanks!

powertothepeople

if the word ass offends you to the level you feel the need to whine on this blog, you really need to get out more.

Oooops. I did it again.

Repair_Man_Jack

I don’t buy his entire program, but I’d vote for him in a primary over Gingrich, Huntsman or Mitt Warmney.

http://www.redstate.com/repair_man_jack/2011/04/26/gary-johnson-brings-libertarian-philosophy-to-the-gop/?amp&amp

amigag

It appears that a “report” feature needs to be added for those that lack manners and are not respectful.

This is not your website. You need to go back to the sites that speak like you do.

powertothepeople

above whiner applies to you. Now when you and Christian are through attempting to be the sites conscience, maybe you can post something worthwhile.

And if you want to complain about the word ass, may want to file complaints on just about everyone on this site including some mods and owners.

Now grow up and move on.

sarg01

However, I’m all for pushing Boehner to cut more. That’s a very viable and even laudable position. However, saying “hold the line on CCB” doesn’t push Boehner to cut more. It pushes Boehner to threaten his caucus and maybe even try to get a Dem vote or 5.

powertothepeople

if you are referring to my above statement concerning Ron Paul and the poster who made the silly post about him, trust me, I am in the majority here. You will find no sympathy in your speak nice about Ron Paul and his supporters crusade.

rightwingmom52

if he and McConnell name a Susan Collins or Scott Brown to the panel? Remember it only takes 1 Republican to vote with 6 Dems to raise taxes.

gekster

that imploring him will do no good, as I have repeatedly asked him to refrain,
the reason being I encourage my Grandchildren to read this site.
It is to no avail.
I have fell back on telling them that it is hard for someone to have manners when they were not taught manners as a kid.

no offense pttp, you allready know how I feel.

sarg01

A committee vote is dead if 218 Reps vote against it in the House. And in reality, there’s probably 20-30 Dems who wouldn’t vote for any spending cuts anywhere except defense.

e_rowe

RP’s voting record is more impeccable than any other member of the House. The only times he ever puts earmarks for his district in any bill (which do not add one cent to the cost of the bill) are when he votes no. He actually votes against his own earmarks.

I’m not sure I know what you mean about blaming “the USA” for 9/11. Even to the extent that he blamed the federal government (which I’m pretty sure he didn’t put all the blame on, only some), the federal government is not the same as “the USA.” To say that every time we accuse the government of some mistake must mean we’re accusing the entire nation smacks of the same kind of sophistry as when Nancy Pelosi said it was unpatriotic to support the repeal of Obamacare.

e_rowe

Just stick around. You’ll see it happen.

amigag

Thanks gekster. I don’t comment on Redstate too often but read it daily. The nastiness and rudeness never used to be permitted. I’m registered on several other sites, some political and some Tech sites. The Tech sites will ban quickly and take appropriate action for much less than what I’ve seen written here.

I don’t think cursing and using bad language should be allowed.
Expressing an opinion should not be met with that kind of language.

e_rowe

The anti-establishment mood sometimes picks up some steam here. But when most Redstaters see where that leads, they want nothing to do with it.

Of course, part of that is because of the way they purged Ron Paul supporters in 2007. If not for that, who’s to say who would be in the majority?

e_rowe

She’s right. Just don’t raise the debt ceiling. That’s all they need to do here.

They can try to get CCB through the senate, and if it fails it fails. But not raising the debt ceiling is more important than getting CCB. And if they’re really willing not to raise it, then there’s no reason to tie the two things together.

clarioncaller

This frenzy over plans..name calling..attacking ourselves is just plain stupid. Democrats do nothing and Republicans devour THEMSELVES !

This is what you get when Leaders don’t have principals. They zig then zag and continue to loose elections. Now Boehner is positioning the Republican party(and the TEA PARTY element) to repeat in 2012 because they reveal themselves to be just what the public saw in 2006 “Democrat light”.

e_rowe

Maybe the votes will turn out different. But as it is now, the solid no votes reads like a who’s who of the Ron Paul wing of the party.

Meanwhile, the yes votes (i.e. the Boehner votes) include Paul Ryan and Mike Pence, both of whom I’ve seen inexplicably touted here multiple times as solid conservatives who would be the best candidate in the field if only they’d run for president.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/173745-whip-list-on-boehners-new-plan-on-debtdeficit

acat

Unfortunately Johnson has two problems.

First, Ron Paul is running, and Luap Nor has far deeper pockets and an existing group of followers.

Second, Johnson is, well, Johnson. He’s not a compelling speaker, he seems too laid back, and he hasn’t successfully made his case on the above to the social-issues voters who pick the winners in Iowa and South Carolina.

I had hoped, at one point, that Johnson would get enough traction that some of the other candidates would be forced to stake out positions on them. Hasn’t happened, which is really a shame.

And no, Ron Paul can’t force the issues onto the agenda .. he’s too easily dismissed as a cranky, nutty, doddering old coot. (which he is, more’s the pity)

Mew

lineholder

Oh, I know that isn’t how they intended. They were trying to imply that we are too simpleminded to understand what is really going on, and that it is time to get back to “business as usual”. Given the hard cold reality that it was business as usual in the realm of politics that got us to where we are today, and that continuing down the same path with lead to the collapse of our nation….maybe it is only those of us who see things clearly in black and white, good versus evil, truth vs. lie, right vs wrong, who see the dangers of going back to business as usual.

I’d rather be a hobbit every day of the week than to be a Boromir, caving under pressure when the lure of the Ring got the better of him.

In Tolkien’s writings, it was the hobbits who displayed the determination, perseverance, and initiative to take the Ring of Power, through the land of Mordor, against the greatest of odds, to dispose of it in the Mountain of Doom. It wasn’t the Boromirs who got this done.

If they choose to be the Boromirs, so be it. It was the hobbits that preserved Middle Earth.

runner12

I actually take it as a compliment. Whoever meant it as an insult should brush up on their English literature.

Tolkien’s heroes were not the elves, the men, nor even Gandalf. He intended his writings to reflect the Hobbits as the heroes. J

powertothepeople

if your feelings are hurt by the word ass, get over it. And if you are unable to find peace about a non cuss word, cry a river via the contact button and see if they can provide you some tissue paper.

powertothepeople

with your ankle biting nor your incessant need to come after me for such petty things since your existence does not even bleep on my radar. But the next time you feel the need to bring my parents into the discussion and make some jab at their job or failure to do their job raising me, I will have a major issue with you.

I have never attacked your family even through all you silly pettiness and hypocritical behavior. Try to do the same or at least be man enough to let me know you wish to degrade my parents and I will let you know when I will be in Shelby Township, Richmond, or another city in Michigan, we can meet at any of my offices or a nice coffee shop, and you can be man enough to disparage my parents in person.

CMaree

Now if only we could clean up the muddles of debt plans that hurt your head analyzing but do little but scrape the lint off a pile of our multi-trillion debt.

Tbone

LOL.

gekster

Whether your parents, your brothers or sisters, your nanny for all I know,
whomever brought you up did not instill manners in you.
I will not rehash your foul mouth with you again, as I stated above, I tried and it did no good.
It was just telling the two posters how unreasonable it was to make reasonable arguements with you as to your language.

If you would have read my comment, it was to explain to my Grandkids why some have bad manners, and use words inappropriate for kids to read.
I could not very well tell them that some people use bad language because they are a dumbass, now could I.
I’ll let you have the last word, so go ahead and rip me a new one.

Oh, and I guess you missed
“no offense pttp, you allready know how I feel.”

acat

at least, it’s made me nauseous.

What Ron Paul does is to insert his pork into “must pass” bills. That is, bills that everyone knows are going to sail through. He then votes against them.

So, he gets his pork and eats it too.

It’s despicable. If he’s opposed to pork then he should lead by example; if he’s not actually opposed to it he needs to quit lashing out at others.

He’s the example of a pork hypocrite, and I for one won’t mind his retirement.

Mew

acat

is far beyond the pale. They were banned on sight at the time because they could not act with decorum, construct an actual fact-based argument, spammed the polls, and in general acted like internet troglodytes.

And no, Red State is not generally a very Libertarian place.

For the record, if Ron Paul wins the GOP nomination, I will vote for the Green Party candidate in the general. I despise the man.

Ron Paul has done more to send libertarianism and its’ associated small-government ideals back to the stone ages than any member of the Libertarian party could ever hope to.

Mew

acat

This cat does not mind salty language, but recognizes that you’re now just pouring it on to get a reaction, as you may with a slug.

Chill out.

Mew

acat

when the one ring resurfaced, washing their hands and sailing away.

I’d rather be a hobbit any day. Unless, of course, I can be an ent.

Mew

runner12

May I also add acat you have garnered a lot of respect from me over this debt ceiling debate. We may have our disagreements, but you walk the walk when it comes to fiscal conservatism. You do so with wit and satire, and have made me laugh out loud more than once.

Three cheers for the kitty!

jaykali

Republicans do have some leverage, but they don’t have all the leverage so at some point the opposition can and will draw a line. This is the case in any negotiation, I think some people I am hearing on the radio think this is a deal where one Mr. Smith goes to Washington can drive the whole thing by holding out and I just don’t think that’s realistic. Negotiations aren’t all will, although with this particular one ‘will’ is a big part, no doubt. But look there are some things Obama and the Democrats just won’t sign onto. They will draw a line.

Cuts only? They have given in…Cuts that can actually be scored by the CBO as being kind of real? Pretty much. Balanced budget amendment? Not so much. Repeal of Obamacare? Sorry. A promise that the president will submit his resignation immediately after a compromise is met? Ya now I’m getting ridiculous but you get the idea. I think we know the end game, the Republicans have done pretty well to get a dollar for dollar debt for cuts agreement that is actually scorable by CBO. Now even CBO is a shot in the dark after like the first year or so but it just appears to me to be the best deal they’re going to get with controlling congress and the WH. They can’t make Obama sign anything, otherwise they’d attach Obamacare and more to the bill.

So I don’t know how I feel about all this. I DO think it is DUBIOUSLY reported that somehow not having tax increases is a win for Republicans. That was never going to happen. The only thing that was possible was tax reform which included loophole closing and the Democrats got too greedy on that. Even loophole closing makes Republicans nervous bc technically it is a tax increase even though it’s in exchange for lower rates.

So I don’t count ‘no tax increases’ as a win for Republicans. I am though disappointed that it seems like the books are cooked in these numbers in every plan. Even if the CBO scores the cuts as sort of real, why do they ALWAYS have to be stacked in the later years? That makes them phony to me. I only care about cuts in the near future, and I would think we could cut more than 1-20 billion dollars in a 4 trillion dollar f-ing gov’t budget next year. I mean 20 billion is a rounding error. Come on people.

So to summary, I am a bit torn. I don’t know that I’m calling for people’s resignations but I was kind of hoping we could come up with a better deal. If the president DOES have to sign a deal that is only like 6-9 months that will make me a bit happier though bc I know that he hates that more than anything.

acat

Not at all the same fatalistic nobility of Galadriel or Elrond. One wonders just what J.R.R. was thinking. Can’t ask, and don’t think I ever saw an answer.

I am what I am, runner. I am in favor of a small government, one that, to flip Gerald Ford’s words on their head, may not be able to supply all my needs, but which certainly is too small to take everything I have.

One way to get there is to starve the cancer, and one way to do that is the BBA.

It’s not ideal to me – what I’d really like is a rewrite of the 10th amendment – but I’ll take what I can get. And what I can get, what we can all get, is much more than Boehner is willing to accept. That, to me, is hard to get around.

Mew

acat

Simple. Obama either keeps spending under some constitutional-scholar-interpretation of the 14th amendment (creating a constitutional crisis and throwing the whole mess over to the Roberts court) or he has to face immediate cuts of about 40% because there’s not enough income to balance the outgo.

The only downside for Conservatives is that it lets the Commander in Chief in Training make the decisions about which constituency groups he screws, but …

… even if Erick wins and the Senate passes CCB, there will be a debt ceiling increase, so the screwing will be reduced. Somewhat.

Mew

powertothepeople

you can lean down to tie your shoes without busting open your head.

A) This is not a kids site. Never was meant to be a kids site. Not my job to shelter your kids, your job to keep them away if you do not like items on the site. And I have never, NEVER, used excessive language, obscene language, and any other language that any non sheltered person would find offensive. So cry a river to someone else. Grow up is all I can say.

B) I have always followed directions from mods and so far they have no issue with the words I use. In fact every one of them have used the same words multiple times. Go address your issue with them and lets see how far it goes.

C) As I stated, it is obvious you are a coward. So either keep your mouth off of folks not here to defend themselves or be man enough to tell me you would like to attack my family in person.

D) And sooooooo sorry for not meeting your “level” of manners. How about chasing me around the site asking for an apology.

E) Putting ” no offense” at the end of an insulting moronic rant does not do away with the words.

So once again, keep my family out of your mouth or at least be man enough to wait till I am in Michigan and you know where I will be. Cowards are lowlifes, try not to join that sub human group. I have way too much class to talk about your grandkids and insult them based on my opinion of you but still try to imagine how that would piss you off and try to demonstrate some decency.

gekster

as they have to put up with you.

And the roll of toilet paper for a sig line is most appropriate.
You can use it to clean up all the crap you spew.

And like I said, I knew you would rip into me.
Ripping people is all you got.

gekster

as to meating me, just what do you mean to acomplish?
Cuss at me in front of my face.

Finrod

Saruman tells Gandalf that his love of the halfling’s leaf has addled his brain, but then Merry and Pippen find that Saruman had a couple barrels of Old Toby himself.

Finrod

.

Finrod

Thus, none of them ever saw the light of the Two Trees that lit the world, before the Sun and the Moon.

Galadriel was there, she made the journey. The light of them still glows on in her, hence “Galadriel, Lady of Light”. Elrond is descended from those that did, IIRC.

(Yes, I’m a Tolkien geek. Finrod was Galadriel’s oldest brother.)

pacajka

Those haflings were pretty tough folks. Frodo and Sam walked into the middle of Mordor to get rid of the Ring.
I guess I’m one of those little people to Senator McCain. I’m a proud precinct captain in Mordem(more Democrats than Republicans). It’s a tough job, and it takes tough people to do it.
The Senator looks like the King of Rohan. Is Grima Wormtongue his chief of staff?

Scope

there is a contact button to hit, and to send all your complaints to. While it is not powertothepeople’s website, it is not your site either. No one appointed you the language moderator, or moderator of anything here actually.

Go out to any other website and read the Ron Paul supporter’s comments. They are rude, vicious, name calling, vile, and have only one purpose, and that is to try to attempt to “clear the field” by lying, misrepresenting, and trying to deceive the readers into thinking that any other candidate than Ron Paul is corrupt, big government supporting, globalist supporting Bilderbergs who are conspiring to overtake the US, and who want to send everyone to the gulags. Many remind me of those that followed Jim Jones to their Kool-Aide deaths, they are that gullible.

You are more than welcome to hit the contact page, send your whimpy complaints, and see how far you get.

acat

…..

acat

And it’s now a race to see whether the Illinois, New York, or California debt bomb goes off first.

Mew

rightwingmom52

Wonder what they’ll call us around November, 2012. Next time the NRSC or NRCC calls and asks for money from Mrs. W., I think I’ll tell them the Hobbits live here.

runner12

I will have to remember that one.

http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

They can call me whatever they like. They just cannot call me for money anymore.

Kudos to your sentiment, RWM!

rightwingmom52

Your flip of Gerald Ford’s words for one, but more importantly, her point about respect in the face of disagreement.

This debate has been enlightening to say the least, and I have no doubt as to who I want to have my back in a fight, and it ain’t those who want to cower in the corner. I’ve always been up front that I’m a Christian (social) conservative first, but I think I and others have more than proven our fiscal creds in the last few days, despite concap’s insistence on linking us with moderate Dems.

acat

Guy’s got his head on straight and doesn’t seem too happy with the Boehner/McConnell RINO circus.

Just a thought.

Mew

acat

… someone thinks you’re a moderate Dem. Just .. wow. That’s … just wrong.

I’ll remember this next time we’re at odds. I’d appreciate the same being true from your side.

I don’t expect us to always agree, but .. I think we have a better measure of one another.

Mew

rightwingmom52

a couple of dollars (literally) every now and then just to stay on the list. That way when they call, I can give them a piece of my mind for free.

snowshooze

DeMint is our hero in the Senate.
He can take the heat in the kitchen. He knows that taxes cannot be raised high enough…to cover this spending spree. The math proves the point.
DeMint deserves our support. He will get mine. With luck, if nothing else, we will put him in leadership in ’12.
If anyone could manage damage control there, it would be him.
And with Boehner, we could have a lot of damage.

http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

I will make the necessary arrangement in the next couple of days.

snowshooze

I can’t remember.
But the Hobbits, I do remember, were clearly the humble little people, the masses, the average workers… the peasants…and they came to save all.
Without the hobbit… nothing.

acat

haranguing some poor soul in a call center* somewhere, whose next call could be trying to sell extended warranties or whatever. Not worth it to me.

Mew

* and the call center folks have a tough enough job

http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

Sent a little note with the empty fundraising reply letter to the NRCC.

It read:

“When Speaker Boehner gets his “ass in line” and does what he was elected to do, then give me a call. Until then or until he resigns, bug off.”

youngconstitutionalist

You don’t have a record here. Your first post was earlier this month. I would never say I have a record here, and I have a slightly longer one than you do.

http://pocketchangeproductions.net/ anotherindyfilmguy

Just a thought…

If “we’re Hobbits” (feeelthy or otherwise) where does this place the fools who look down on Hobbits? A bunch of Saruman wannabees who see what the Enemy wants them to? Who then lose sight of their objective and forgo all hope to conspire to be part of the “new order” etc?

lastgopinillinois

What is obamas 2.4T/18month debt limit increase for exactly ?
Is all that money going to service the debt, or is some of it….
to finish implementing obamacare?
more money for Czars?
additional funds for Dodd-Frank regulators?
funds for EPA forced cap and tax ?

Shouldnt Republicans have disected his request prior to all this?
Maybe we could have defunded his agenda in a defacto method by shrinking the debt limit increase.

acat

I look for candidates I like, but .. that does take time. DeMint’s PAC makes it easier to find the good ones, and the Senate is our (meaning Conservatives, not just the GOP) “must win” for 2012.

Mew

acat

And handing your opponent an economic reason to pick the other guy, going into 2012 in an economy that can’t help but get worse .. that’s just dumb.

We may despise the Dems in the senate, but let’s not underestimate ‘em.

They’ve got internal polling already, they know 2012 is going to be bad for Dems… that’s why several have already announced that they’re retiring rather than being fired. (Kohl D-WI comes to mind)

Your palantir* seems to be broken.

Mew

* Tolkien’s equivalent of a crystal ball

jaykali

Obama isn’t going to do an executive order and congress is going to pass something at the 11th hour, so I guess it’s purely hypothetical. Even though August 2nd is an arbitrary date, the markets would go nuts and there’d be some panick around town for a while and a deal would get done. They wouldn’t go months having to shed 40% of costs..it’s just not going to happen.

Personally I think that you get the best deal done you can otherwise you run the risk of co-owning the economy if a deal is delayed even a couple days past August 2nd. The Republicans want Obama to own the economy solely so they can win in 2012. I feel like we’ve got the inside track to win the Senate and the presidency so that to me is the only serious way Republicans will be able to do anything significant.

To me the 2010 elections were about bringing Obama’s agenda to a screeching halt, not about getting about of new reforms done. There’s only so much they can force. We’re not talking about a new 30 billion dollar jobs bill every month anymore or cap and trade or amnesty or any other garbage. Obama is completely on the defensive so I would just say to keep eyes on the prize and that’s long-term reforms that require Republican control.

e_rowe

I’ve been here since 2007 and have posts going back that far.

e_rowe

http://www.redstate.com/e_rowe/2010/05/03/hostettler-for-senate/

It’s not from 2007. But that’s just because it took me that long to write a diary here. At any rate, it’s hardly from less than one month ago.

e_rowe

For the most part, the Republicans who say they’re against earmarks are the most egregious big spending ones. Jeff Flake is one exception to that rule, who I think is pretty sincere about wanting less government. But I see all these progressive Republicans who join these silly anti-earmark pledges, and then vote for things like Medicare D, TARP, the Iraq war and this Boehner plan, and I can’t see any way around concluding that those are the ones who are the hypocrites. If anything, pork just makes the government less efficient in spending money on all those things, and for that we should be thankful.

Ron Paul’s earmarks have never added one dollar to the budget. And he does the one greatest thing anyone in the House can do to stop them from passing, which is to vote against them. You call these bills., “must pass” bills. But they’re not must pass bills. All Congress has to do to stop them from passing is to vote No, like Ron Paul does.

e_rowe

Of course that’s very different from banning people solely because they say anything at all supportive of someone whose ideology comes closer to that which Redstate ostensibly has than any other presidential candidate of that campaign did.

And when I look at the things that have transpired in the years since then, it couldn’t be more obvious to me how false your last statement is. The tea party movement, the uproar over this Boehner plan, the elections of Rand Paul, Mike Lee, and Justin Amash, the party nominations of Joe Miller, Ken Buck, and Sharon Angle, the respectable showings of Debra Medina, Peter Schiff, and John Hostettler in their primaries, and the popularity of Bachmann and Cain, as well as Ron Paul, in this year’s presidential primaryall tell me that small-government ideals are enjoying a resurgence of popularity. I personally think Ron Paul had no small role in helping this happen.

Scope

CLINICALLY SPEAKING, WHAT IS THOUGHT REFORM / BRAINWASHING / COERCIVE PERSUASION?
Margaret Thaler Singer, Ph.D., Professor at the University of California at Berkeley, acknowledged leading authority in the world on cults says: Thought reform?is the systematic application of psychological [i.e., through indoctrination and emotional manipulation] and social influence [control of your environment and social circle] in an organized programmatic way?The goal is to produce specific attitudinal and behavioral changes…Contrary to popular misconceptions, a thought reform program does not require physical confinement?[However} thought reform is environment-dependent.
IN SIMPLE TERMS, WHAT IS A CULT?
Any group that uses abusive, manipulative methods to attract and retain members.
WHO IS MOST AT RISK AND HOW BAD IS IT?
18-25 year olds going through identity crisis; college students having trouble finding a major or friends Recently divorced Those with insecure or negative self images Those anxious to find instant answers Christians who have not had enough Bible study In 1997, the US Census reported more than 10 million people belong to about 3,000 destructive cults in the US alone.
HOW PEOPLE BECOME INTRIGUED WITH CULT MEMBERS
Recruiter is self-confident and sincere; seems knowledgeable and seems to have genuine interest in person. Oftentimes the recruiter is wearing a tie or dressed very professionally?seems nonthreatening. Potential convert is invited to a weekend retreat, a dinner or Bible study Potential convert is showed with love/attention (love bombing) Potential convert becomes impressed with group?s devotion and sense of community
HOW TO DETERMINE IF A GROUP IS A DESTRUCTIVE CULT OR GROUP
Ask yourself these questions:
? Is the leadership considered the supreme authority and claim to have a special mission in life?
? Does the organization have double standards? Are members encouraged to be honest to the leaders but at the same time encouraged to deceive and manipulate outsiders?
? Does the organization have two purposes: recruit new members and raise money in some manner, without regard for bettering the lives of their members? Does the group make charitable social contributions?
2
? Is the leadership breaking with tradition and offering the only viable system for change that will solve life?s problems?
? Do the leaders expect absolute obedience?
? Does the organization expect you to jeopardize your family relationships or isolate you from society in some way?
HOW A CULT OPERATES
New convert is taught that emotional or social attachments to anyone outside group will hinder or jeopardize your spiritual development. Group becomes convert?s new family as convert is taught not to trust others.
Fund-raising drives are constant. There?s a sense you can never give enough. Eighty-year old woman: ?I can?t attend my granddaughter?s dance recital because I have to get more preaching in this week.?
Everything in life is censored: how you dress, your hairstyle, what you watch on TV (Smurfs) or view on the internet (no apostate websites), what you read, who you talk to, what you eat (Heath candy bars/well-cooked meat), what decorations you have in your house (wind chimes/crosses).
In beginning, group is secretive, deceptive and manipulative. They consider themselves ?outsiders? to the rest of the world while trying to blend in. Example: ?We?re Christians.?
Demand total obedience. Excommunication and shunning.
They are a-cultural; i.e., ostracized due to their differences, which inevitably tightens the communal bonds between them. Their elite status gives them a sense of purpose and a mission on this planet that no other organization can accomplish.
New convert only receives positive feedback when he/she doesn?t make waves. He soon learns only to accept and not to disagree with cult leaders and is made to feel guilty when he/she does.
New convert is kept busy; little time to reflect or think independently.
Conversion is done on emotional level first, then psychological, then theological level
What really happened? The convert has been isolated from the world both physically and psychologically. Deprived of his ordinary frames of reference, he has been conditioned to accept only what the cult leaders teach is true. The individual is no longer in control of his own free will; but what?s worse; he doesn?t even know he is being controlled. In essence, because the
3
convert no longer trusts his own thoughts or feelings, he has become codependent on the group. Codependency in adults is dysfunctional.
HOW CULT MEMBERS PERCEIVE THEIR RELIGION/THEMSELVES/THE WORLD
Their religion is the truth, the way, and having a personal relationship with God isn?t possible unless you are one of them.
Ethically and morally, they are exemplary, above all others in the world. To leave is to fall into darkness. There is no abuse/crime/dishonesty within their fold.
The world (i.e., all nonbelievers) is evil and must be destroyed by God?soon. To have associations with nonbelievers is to jeopardize your relationship with God.
They alone are happy, successful, at peace, uniform (not simply united). [In actuality, they are typically depressed, lonely, have low self-esteem, are over dependent and frustrated, confused and have an inability to concentrate.]
They believe they have no value, except to serve the organization/God. Their guilt about who they are (i.e., inherently unworthy)?perhaps they don?t find enough converts or log in enough preaching hours, or they don?t keep their property immaculately groomed, or don?t give enough money to the cult?all these things keep them in a hamster cage, on a perpetual treadmill, trying to always run faster to gain the leadership?s approval.
Their standing within the cult is the most important thing. God is secondary. Family eventually falls to the wayside.
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU REALIZE YOU?VE BEEN DUPED?
Post traumatic stress; nightmares; depression; split personalities; psychosis.
?It?s like a Twilight one, where everything you thought you knew is suddenly not that way at all. The rug had been pulled out from under me.?
?It?s like being spiritually raped.?
?Suddenly I?m seeing this nice spiritual leader as an utterly sinister person.?
?It takes years, or even a lifetime, to heal from a cult experience. I had to learn how to trust my own instincts and to make my own decisions. And I had to learn what real intimacy was about. I had to learn to trust again.?
?Living under the tyranny of the cult may become intolerable, but leaving is wrenching. You?re perfectly free to leave; but scared to death to try.?
4
?Imagine growing up within the confines of Disney World, where all you know is that culture. Now imagine stepping outside the gates after 20 years and into the real world for the first time. That?s what it?s like to leave.?
WHAT MAKES IT SO HARD TO LEAVE?
Dependence Financial instability Estrangement from family Feelings of guilt and shame Trust issues Friendships in the group All other spiritual paths have been discredited
WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH IF YOU DO LEAVE?
Rejection Shame/guilt Isolation Grief Loss of identity Anger Poor self-image Futility and feelings of inadequacy Regret for lost time Fear Confusion Trust issues
WHERE DO PEOPLE DO WHEN THEY LEAVE A CULT?
For some, they become involved in a similar cult that helps them feel like they haven?t left God; they still believe some of the original cult?s tenets and feel it must have been their own spiritual weakness that ?stumbled? them.
For others, they become involved in a more mainstream church; although they often feel confusion and resentment at such phrases as, ?Jesus saves? or ?be teachable.? They want to become spiritual again, but are afraid of being controlled. Post-traumatic stress is common.
Still others become agnostic or atheist.
Many withdraw from the world, feeling detached, angry and confused, afraid to reconnect with the extended family they distanced themselves from.
5
Others enter into another dysfunctional/codependent relationship, repeating the same patterns, unaware of what they are doing.
The fortunate ones take the journey to emotional healing through introspective research, education, surrounding themselves with emotionally healthy people, and counseling with an experienced cult professional who understands that therapy must be intense, personal. Good rehabilitation will seek to avoid unhealthy dependency while providing healthy group support.
A survey of 350 ex-cultists from 48 different groups found that former members suffered from residual effects that lasted an average duration of 81.5 months (almost 7 yrs).
- Conway, F., Information Disease: Effects of Covert Induction and Deprogramming, Update 10 (2) l1986, 63-65, and Update, 10 (3), 45-57
REHABILITATION: WHAT WORKS (study on 300 ex-cultists)
Love and support of parents and family – 64% Insight and support by former cult members ? 59% Establishing new friends unrelated to cults ? 50% Helping others emerge or recover from cults ? 39% Finding a job and establishing a new career ? 36% Getting away from the cult ? 29% Going back to school or college ? 25% Professional mental health counseling ? 14% Acting to recover lost money, possessions, etc. ? 9%
It?s hard to get out of a cult. Getting the cult out of us is even harder. Our closest relationships, cherished beliefs, our whole way of life goes up in flames. The lush greenhouse-like intensity of life in the cult shrivels to spiritual wasteland. Sensitive rehabilitation and counseling after the intervention enable cult victims to sift the ashes for the gold and find streams in the desert.
- The Dark Side of Discipleship by Lawrence Pile, Wellspring Retreat and Resource Center, Albany, Ohio
______________________________________________

I posted the entire pdf file because I don’t know how to post links that can be accessed from a post. Just exchange the word in the Document “Christian” for Ron Paul, and the situation is identical. Oh, and, this isn’t Margret Sanger, she was evil.

Tbone

of decorum? I know I’m not very good at all that color matching stuff.

e_rowe

I always love it when you and Neil Stevens get going on Ron Paul. I posts like these and say to myself, “Wow. I sure do hope some undecided conservative voters come across this to get an idea about what the anti-Ron Paul crowd thinks like.”

Bill S

You need to increase the font size in your browser.

CNTL +

acat

Now that you mention it…

Mew

acat

I’m sure Erick doesn’t mind if you spit on the carpet every now and again.

e_rowe

By the time I got to the end of that, I had forgotten whose name was at the top.

Add Scope to the list too.

Tbone

Wow.

I thought cats all had linoleum. Something about slicker than something or other.

RS

EDITOR OF REDSTATE

The Closing Argument: We Are Filthy Hobbitses

COMMENTS

ALL

COMMENTS

POPULAR

#RSRH

PICK YOUR STATE & GET LOCAL