The Great Divide

By: Erick Erickson (Diary) | July 27th, 2011 at 02:36 PM |

RESIZE: AAA

If you want to stop the GOP from taking a bad deal out of fear, go to http://www.redstate.com/action right now and call your member of Congress to oppose John Boehner’s plan.

This morning took an interesting turn of events. First the Wall Street Journal called us hobbits. Then Bill Kristol proclaimed us “pro-Obama.” Then John Boehner told his members to get their “asses in line.”

And then a handful of Republican members of congress started attacking me, this site, conservative members of congress, conservative staffers in congress, and conservative organizations including the Heritage Foundation, the Club for Growth, FreedomWorks, Americans for Prosperity, and the list goes on and on.

Friends, this is why the fight is so important — the legacy of the Republican Party.

During the Bush Administration, many conservatives got co-opted. It became more important to be on the team than fight on principle. Consequently, we got No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, TARP, the GM bailout, etc.

We almost got stuck with Harriet Miers and immigration reform.

When the GOP was finally tossed for its “culture of corruption,” there were very few Republicans standing in Washington that the GOP felt it could trust. Mike Pence was one. Jeff Flake another. Jim DeMint for sure.

So conservatives rallied to send them reinforcements — Tom Graves, Dave Schwiekert, Tim Huelskamp, Marco Rubio, Mike Lee, Rand Paul, etc.

The GOP told us they had turned from their big spending ways. John Boehner went so far last year to say he appreciated outside conservative groups holding their feet to the fire.

And then today —The GOP would not fight for smaller government when it was in the majority and now it seems it intends to cave abjectly in the minority hiding behind its minority status instead of fighting.

If the GOP won’t fight in the majority and it won’t fight in the minority, what good is it? Even now, guys like Jeff Flake and Mike Pence seem to be going wobbly.

Like TARP, No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, Harriet Miers — these are the fights that define a conservative’s legacy in Congress. The new guys might not realize that. But ultimately, we conservatives remember.

And we also remember the outside groups and pundits who are urging compromise and urging Boehner’s plan. Many of these same people urged on the bad plans of the past only to then claim they got duped.

We sent to Washington a group of men and women to repeal Obamacare and cut Washington spending. Now we’re confronted with the fact that they want to pass off their obligations to another deficit commission, give Barack Obama a too clever by half pass at rising the debt ceiling, and claim they did all they could. But they haven’t.

These are not easy times or easy decisions. But we sure as heck should expect more from these guys. This isn’t about being on John Boehner’s team. It’s about doing what is right. And it is not right to punt obligations and make ephemeral cuts.

If we’re real honest — the GOP helped get us into this mess. John Boehner’s plan does nothing to redeem the GOP’s legacy. But along the way, attacking conservative heroes, hiding how his plan will lead to tax increases, and not fighting both hurts the GOP’s relationship with its base and will seemingly cause a few long time heroes of the conservative movement to pollute their legacy with what amounts to a political cop out.

But hey — they’re in the minority.

The real conservatives will hold the line.

Tags: debt ceiling, John Boehner, Republican Study Committee

COMMENTS

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avgjo

and others? I would LOVE to give their staff a call. I may not live in their district, but I have money to send their primary opponents. And I want very badly for the @#!&?s to know it.
http://barnettlaw.org Frozen_Man

nt
__t_i_m_o_t_h_y__

Thanks for holding the line Erick.
fpete13527

nt
jphamlore

The rumors I have been reading are that contrary to some terrible deal with the devil being made, both the House and Senate proposed bills that aren’t actually bills are collapsing in support:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jul/27/boehner-reid-both-back-drawing-board/

Meanwhile CNN’s website is pouring gasoline on the fire by basically asserting black is white, the Earth is flat, and the American people support tax increases by a huge majority if only the obstructionist radicals in the Republican Party would get out of the way. (I’m not going to dignify that with a link.)

Even with the unspeakably low standards for a bill’s passage that have been embellished by the Democrats, I don’t think sides that are writing separate bills can possibly give something to Obama to sign by August 2 like slipping a homework assignment under a professor’s door just before midnight.

I don’t see how any conclusion can be drawn other than the Democrats are deliberately running out the clock on a deadline they themselves established for their own purposes.
kripto

Eric, while I completely disagree with you on your treatment of Romney on your show and previously here on this site.

I am 110% behind you here. In my opinion Default is better than the John Boehner plan. I also think we need to tie what is going on with ObamaCare. We should point out that ObamaCare is main reason why we are where we are.

I have always believed that you do what is right and let the consequence follow. If we always cave, we become democrats. We need to hold the line or throw these bums out and get a different set in 2012 for any republican who votes for the plan. We need to let these Republicans know that we will primary them out if they vote for the plan.
ramcclain

I elected to fax both of my senators, Corker (maybe a RINO) and Alexander (RINO), and also my rep. Steve Cohen. I know fax will mean nothing to Cohen, one of the Socialist Dems of America, and far lefty. I choose to fax because they canNOT be deleted like email, and you can’t be put on hold forever, AND faxes must be recorded!

I hope the conservatives will stand firm against the DemocRats and the RINO republicans. I think a lot of this has been political posturing. It is past time to clean house, both the House and Senate!
gawken

So what’s the big deal?

Senate will have killed off TWO House bills, and Reid’s bill..whatever it is?..won’t get out of the Senate either..

Seems to me we get what we want, and the Dems get the blame
kripto

I don’t, don’t give them the chance to switch.
mspector

I’ve e-mailed and called him in the past and don’t believe he will fold.

If anything, the Republican position should be stronger now that we are hearing from the international credit rating agencies that the debt ceiling is not the issue. The issue (as we have been saying) is the level of spending relative to GDP and the corresponding debt load. It’s almost too obvious to mention that raising the debt ceiling will only worsen this problem.

Now more than ever we need to reject the notion that when the going gets tough the tough start compromising.
http://bouncingporcupine.blogspot.com/ ct236

We’re all in this together. It is RINO’s and fake conservatives attacking us now. HOLD. THE. LINE. Any “Republican” who goes with Boehner and his insane spending and taxing plan can expect to be replaced next year in a GOP primary election. COUNT ON IT. Hold the line, or be replaced with someone with who DOES have some brains, courage, and steadfastness.
AndrewHyman

Well, if the House of Representatives won’t pass any bill to rescue our AAA rating, except a bill that requires a constitutional amendment, then the GOP is going to be in big public relations trouble. That goes triple if Wall Street crashes. Beohner’s plan seems better than the GOP strapping dynamite to its waste and threatening to blow everyone up.

On the other hand, public relations is not everything. Taking thus up to the brink may be a useful warning that next time it may well go past the brink.
rowdydfw

Called: Cornyn, Barton, Burgess
AndrewHyman

waist
oldfox

This is starting to look like the start of a third party. I know it would give BO the election, but if he does win, the GOP will be useless as they are now, so whats the difference. I have had it with the GOP for many years now, hoping and praying they would see the “Conservative light”, but my faith in them has faded completly. They have made their bed, now they must sleep in it!!
tonystake

It really doesn’t matter. Our government has made it clear they would rather sell this country of ours to China rather than cut spending. If your not cleaning your guns and buying ammo, your on the wrong side. We cannot survive another two years of this. It’s time to fight or put on chains.
avgjo

nt
http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

or anyone else’s plan, for that matter.
tonystake

I will not vote the Republican ticket any longer. I will only vote for true constitutional conservatives who can prove to me by their record or word that they will do what I send them to Washington to do. I would rather we loose to Obama than send a RINO like McLame to the White House.
acat

and there are more Dems in the Senate than the House.

I do not see your logic here, gawken. If Boehner can get his bill past Pelosi, Reid’s a push-over by comparison.

Mew
http://www.politicaljules.com politicaljules

He is working against everything conservatives stand for on the debt. He will get obama a second term. Now to find out teaparty patriots are working with him to say that tens of thousands of us want Boehner fired. News flash… We dont. PLEASE Stop lying. I do not think we should trust redstate, tea party patriots and possibly Erick

I urge everyone to read the article that says Erick was involved with secret emails to blast republican leaders to vote against cut cap and balance.. http://www.rollcall.com/news/republicans_dress_down_jim_jordan_rsc_aide-207730-1.html?pos=hln

“The GOP rank and file tore into Republican Study Committee Chairman Jim Jordan (Ohio) on Wednesday for his role in coordinated attacks on Republicans who have backed Speaker John Boehner?s (Ohio) debt limit proposal.

According to participants, during a closed-door Republican Conference meeting Wednesday, Jordan and a top RSC staffer came under fire from their colleagues for their role in the attacks.

The RSC, Heritage Action for America and others have closely coordinated their opposition to Boehner?s debt plan ? including circulating a public pressure hit list of Republicans prepared by the RSC.

Significantly, several of the Members on the list are also members of the RSC and were none too pleased that their dues were being used to gin up attacks against them, according to numerous lawmakers and staff.

The list was circulated to Heritage Action and other members of the Cut, Cap and Balance Coalition and Erick Erickson, an influential conservative blogger who has often waged open warfare against Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.) and other Republicans he views as too moderate.

In the email, a RSC junior staffer wrote: ?Today is the day to kill the Boehner deal. We need statements coming up to the Hill every hour of the day in mounting opposition to the plan. If we keep this from ever coming to the Floor, we have a greater chance of victory than defeating a vote on the floor.?

In an apparent reference to a previous email from Erickson, the aide continued, ?To echo Erick?s email, we need some serious heat up here,? before listing the Republicans whom the activists were to target.

During the meeting, Jordan apologized for the list and promised his colleagues that it would not happen again, participants said. RSC Communications Director Brian Straessle also apologized in a statement, saying, “This action was clearly inappropriate and was not authorized by the Chairman or any other members of the staff. This has never been ? and never will be ? the way we do business at the RSC.”

Reps. Renee Ellmers (N.C.), Bill Flores (Texas) and others who found themselves on the list gave angry speeches about the incident, and at least one lawmaker demanded Jordan fire the junior staffer for sending out the email.

Rep. Greg Walden (Ore.) also read the text of an email that Paul Teller, the RSC?s top staffer, sent to outside activists. According to a copy of the email, Teller wrote: ?Guys ? not feeling good. Just got out of Conference, and there was a lot of rally-?round-the-Speaker sentiment, even while admitting the plan was ?not perfect.??

Teller?s email went on to complain about the process outlined in the closed meeting, noting that the ?bill text will be available tonight and will likely be on the floor Wednesday morning, in clear violation of the 3-day layover rule. The CCB pledge is nowhere to be found in any of these deliberations.?

Walden, who bluntly told Teller that he was ?privileged? to be in the GOP Conference meeting, then lit into the aide, arguing that, ?You should not use that privilege to tear down this team for outside organizations.?

Following the meeting, Jordan insisted he had no knowledge of the emails and said he was discussing what to do about the aides internally.

But the RSC Member list is not the first time conservatives have stepped out of traditional bounds during the debt fight.

On Tuesday, former Rep. Ernest Istook (R-Okla.) took to the House floor to lobby his former colleagues to vote against Boehner?s plan, raising questions about the propriety of such actions.

Istook is a distinguished fellow at the Heritage Foundation.
JohnStanton@rollcall.com”
http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

Staff said he has not endorsed the Boehner plan. Wants a Balanced Budget Amendment.
http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

But a resignation will do just as well.

As to the pressure brought against the Boehner scheme, I say give ‘em hell until they slink away in shame.
gekster

“WE” are working against “YOU”.
gawken

Boehner has to get it past his conference.

Reaid has said multiple times that the bill, if it gets to the senate is DOA, and if, ny a miracle, it passes the Senate, then Obama vetoes it..

So, while I don’t liek the bill, and hope that we can KILL it in the Hosue..uf it gets to the senate, it won’t become law…and the Dems look lousy, IMHO

I’m just trying to see the downside here
gekster

nt…
Adjoran

But I cannot imagine what he was thinking with this nonsense.

Not enough immediate cuts – and I know the biggest numbers will always come in the out years with a baseline budget, but $1 bil is a joke – and no cap to enforce them down the road.

But the real poison pill is the “committee” to come up with future cuts. This has never worked in Washington, and won’t work now, and should not be supported by Republicans.

Unfortunately, I was districted into a “safe minority district” as a sacrifice to ensure GOP domination of the rest of the delegation, so “my” congressman is part of the problem.
acat

When in danger
Or in doubt
Run in circles
Scream and shout
—- RAH

Which group of GOPers does this currently describe? Those of us saying “Hold the line”, or those who insist the sky is going to fall if we don’t accept Boehner’s plan?

Mew
Adjoran

so there isn’t the urgency to make it part of this deal. It’s the one part of CCB that can be deferred.

Besides, until we add some more seats, it’s not getting 290 votes in the House and 67 in the Senate anyway.
amigag

I don’t believe Reid. Did he have an epiphany and now is a truthteller? I think this is just to give Speaker Boehner help in getting the latest plan passed in the House. After all, isn’t this “compromise” agreeable with the Senate? And isn’t it the House that Speaker Boehner is having a problem with?

What better way to get the House to pass a bill that Reid agrees with?

That’s how I see it anyway.
acat

Or .. do you really think Pelosi wouldn’t let some of her conference, in purple-red districts, “break ranks” and vote for Boehner’s bill, if it seems a better deal than CCB?

Do you really think Reid, whose bill is ..disturbingly similar .. to Boehner’s would really kill it just because it doesn’t have his name on the front cover?

I do not trust Reid and Pelosi on this. To be fair, if Reid or Pelosi told me the sky was blue, I’d demand the opportunity to verify for myself.

Mew
sarg01

It’s clear he believes the Dems will fold like Dayton in MN. He’s wrong.

However, his being wrong doesn’t make him a liar. It doesn’t mean he’s “working against everything conservatives stand for”. He just doesn’t see that the Dems are in a corner. They can not vote for CCB after voting against it.

I’ll extend you the credit you won’t extend Mr. Erickson and assume your personal attacks on his integrity are because you’re just frustrated, and maybe having a bad day. It’s disrespectful and you need to apologize.
ghostship

Who is this us you speak of?

I think this us you speak of is the Establishment Republicans. I’m glad Erick is working against you because it’s the Establishment Republicans who are absolute poison to the Republican Party.

It’s the Establishment Republicans who are absolute poison to Conservative principles.

It’s the Establishment Republicans who are want to keep the status quo.

It’s the Establishment Republicans who are want to keep playing games instead of actually addressing the very real problems we face.

The one working against US is YOU!

HOLD THE LINE! STAND AND FIGHT!
amigag

I agree with your comment to politicaljules!! Conservatives don’t work against themselves or negotiate with themselves either:-)

We find a line worth fighting for and HOLD it!!

You are right Erick, ignore the fakes/trolls/enemies and the rest that can’t see nor hear.

The Right isn’t called the Right for nothing!!!
dajeeps

Nothing? Does anyone know?

If I know the score correctly, no matter what we do short of more than a few trillion in real cuts our credit will be downgraded anyway. Right? So it only costs more in interest to punt, plus whatever overspending they would be doing anyway. I wish we would have had this fight in the spring over the CR instead of doing it now.

I don’t know if I understand the sitution enough to really weigh in on it, except that I think there are better ways of solving this problem than with the “Cut, Cap, Balance,” mainly because I am opposed to either version of the Balanced Budget Amendment for a couple of reasons:

1) For either version one could consider that if we had had this in the constitution for the last 10 years, it would have changed nothing, for the fact that we were involved in military conflict. It also wouldn’t have stopped anything that happened in the last 2 years because the Democrats had a supermajority to override the caps. We still would have had the bailouts, stimulus, and ObamaCare, and we’d still be in the same place with debt, spending and big government hosing the economy.

2) Setting spending limits at 18% of the economy acquiesces to all the extra-constitutional stuff government does. If big government is the cause, it would seem like a better deal to abridge its power rather than attempt some sort of arbitrary limits that have no definition and constitutionalize everything its been doing. Bad idea.

3) The BBA doesn’t even touch agency debt, which was one of the ways government got us into so much trouble with housing. Just imagine a world where the only way for government to get what it wants is to jack the financial system and leverage public/private partnerships. The kind of corruption, undue influence and distortions in markets would likely make things pretty bad when it comes down to trying to make a living, save and invest. And I think that is the opposite of what many hope to achieve with this.

And so I don’t want it, and I son’t understand why we are leaving the main reasons we are so booged down economically intact. Are we really so addicted to big government that we just can’t give it up?
silentcal2012

One of the smartest toughest conservatives out there strongly defends boehner.
BA Cyclone

because it is a quid pro quo. Raise the debt limit, send the BBA to the states.

Compromise.
BA Cyclone

because it is a quid pro quo. Raise the debt limit, send the BBA to the states.

Compromise.
concap

.
Aaron Gardner

That’s the problem with using an appeal to authority as an actual argument.
amigag

The Dems have the White House & the Senate and we have been continually told on Redstate that we can’t do anything since we only have part of the House. I don’t understand how that puts the Dems in a corner tho.

My understanding of the CCB that was tabled by Reid in the Senate is that the House can send them another one? If I don’t understand that clearly, please explain. I’ve read so many different opinions on that, that I may be confused on how it’s handled.

Thanks
BA Cyclone

Republicans selling out now adds fuel to the fire of the populist “there is no difference between the two parties.”

Rather than clearly coalescing behind conservatives, we risk pushing conservatives 3rd party and/or flatly losing any electoral momentum to continue electing conservative Republicans.

As Erick has said we all likely knew that the debt ceiling would be raised, but the leadership has so totally lost control of the marketing on this thing that I’m not sure they can save it.

If there was a way to save this for conservatives, I am not sure this group of elites has the stomach to do what that would take.
BA Cyclone

Republicans selling out now adds fuel to the fire of the populist “there is no difference between the two parties.”

Rather than clearly coalescing behind conservatives, we risk pushing conservatives 3rd party and/or flatly losing any electoral momentum to continue electing conservative Republicans.

As Erick has said we all likely knew that the debt ceiling would be raised, but the leadership has so totally lost control of the marketing on this thing that I’m not sure they can save it.

If there was a way to save this for conservatives, I am not sure this group of elites has the stomach to do what that would take.
BA Cyclone

.
ashland_avenue

nt
wvfii

looks like you’re in my area.

I sent a letter to those guys, too! it went something like this:

I was born and raised in deeply Republican home. I grew up unquestioningly supporting the ?limited government? and ?values? of the GOP. I still do. I’m very much pro-capitalism. I’m a small business owner. Over 90% of my entire life’s savings are in equities. I WANT corporations and the very wealthy (which I very much plan on being) to do well.
But the fact remains that we have a spending problem …AND we have a revenue problem:
http://economiccrisis.us/2011/04/60yearlow-tax-revenues-contribute-deficit-growth/

Reaganomics architect David Stockman has said so. Former Reagan senior staffer and Ron Paul economic adviser Bruce Bartlett has said so. Alan Greenspan has said so. And you know what? All of these men, along with the S&P ratings agency, have called for the end to the Bush tax cuts. I think it is paramount to note that NONE of these men are politicians. None of these men make their money off of partisan punditry. But all of these men are fiscal conservatives. Are they lying to us?

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/31/are-taxes-in-the-u-s-high-or-low/
http://economix.blogs.nyti?mes.com/2011/07/26/are-the?-bush-tax-cuts-the-root-of?-our-fiscal-problem/
http://money.cnn.com/2010/?08/09/news/economy/elders_?economy/index.htm
http://www.frumforum.com/ratings-agencies-also-want-to-see-bush-tax-cuts-lapse

And if their words and experience don’t carry enough weight, let us not forget that Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times:
http://www.forbes.com/2010/02/02/barack-obama-ronald-reagan-budget-taxes-opinions-contributors-rob-shapiro.html
http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/08/news/economy/reagan_years_taxes/index.htm

I am no fan of taxes. I am no fan of an over-reaching federal government. But our deficit and debt issues are very real, and they will affect me and my potential family greatly over the coming decades. Closing loopholes and subsidies that allow many corporations to pay an effective rate of zero (or less than zero!), or allow billionaires to pay an effective rate of 17% based on dividend income, all while I pay 33%, is NOT an un-conservative endeavor. Perhaps if the GOP is willing to compromise in this area, the Democrats would compromise on tax credits that allow the 47% of lower earners to effectively pay no income tax? Or perhaps they would relent on some of the more unsustainable aspects of our bulging entitlement system?
I implore you to exercise your influence and see that a prudent, equitable deal is made and we are able to avoid default. Thank you again for your service.

Sincerely,
XXXXX
p.s., My apologies for including so many url links, but I definitely think they are worth your/ your staff’s time. You’ll notice they are all from non-partisan or fiscally conservative-leaning sources.
sarg01

It doesn’t mean the result would be any different.

The people arguing about table versus a vote are missing the point. The point is there are not 51 Senate votes for CCB, and the Majority Leader has no interest in helping get around the process.

51 of the Dems are on record opposing CCB. They simply can’t turn around and approve CCB after the markets tank, or checks don’t go out. To do so would be to acknowledge THEY were responsible for the shutdown. That’s a political disaster. With the possible exception of Manchin, who seems kind of reasonable, the Senate Dems would happily take a disaster for America then a political disaster for themselves.
Danae

(Drum roll please)

Kill Obamacare.

Problem solved.

Ok, I know that isn’t a possiblity right now, we need the house, Senate and the White House before we can do that. Honestly though, Obamacare is the single biggest reason we are here, and the democrats frank disregard for the insanity of what they forced down our throats.

Now, that being said, every 6 months or so, there is ANOTHER damned “Crisis” that the Oblidiot in chief comes up with to shove something else down our throats. Crisis to crisis to crisis…. anyone else want off this sick twisted pony ride?

The federal government is the problem. From the cost of milk (OMG have you bought a gallon of milk lately?? It’s more than GAS for heaven’s sake!) to the cost of dog food, everything costs more, fewer people have jobs, fewer businesses are hiring, and all of it can be traced back to D.C, Congress in particular. At no time in history has the federal government had more power over the people, and they are blatantly molesting all of us.

If we have the courage of our convictions, that means taking the power the fed has stolen from the states and returning it, forcibly if necessary (and I use THAT term loosely).

I do not like Bohner’s plan. But lets be blunt for a moment. We have to play this game with an end-goal in mind. Nov. 2012. That means hedging some bets, and swallowing some things we do not like until such time as we own the House, Senate, and the White House. THAT is what we really need, and all of us would do damn well to remember it. This is a game of thrones, and that means playing to win. The Oblidiot is tanking in the polls, and we MUST help grease that particular downhill slope. The harder he falls, the better we do in November.

Keep the target in sight people, and don’t pull the trigger until the right time. Now isn’t the right time. Patience grasshopper. Patience.
__t_i_m_o_t_h_y__

A Boehner sypatico just got his ass handed to him by El Rushbo.

Rush just turned the tables on the idea that the failure of the Boehner plan is a vote for Obama.

This fight is just now getting good!

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!
nvrepub

nt
Marcus_Traianus

I will also wait for Boehner’s reformulated plan tomorrow.

That said, I suspect ultimately his plan will be the best deal we, as American’s can get at this time. The speaker, with whom I have often very vocally agreed, will pass CCB if we get a Republican President and Senate. He has said so, and I take him at his word. It can not pass now.

I believe not raising the debt ceiling will seriously undermine our party.That was never an option at this juncture. It will hurt our candidates with the public. It will make us no better than our rivals, who have no plan and put us in this situation. Whatever happened to the “party of ideas”?

I believe that the inter-party warfare is destructive. Both to Republicans public image and our negotiating position. Witness, this type of behavior is often provoked by the other party.

I believe private coordination which works against the party, not with it is questionable and can hurt one’s credibility. The RSC’s actions were very questionable.

I believe in standing on principle, but not to the point it becomes an existential threat or personally diminishing practice.

I believe that attacking others who have been Conservative stalwarts, because you don’t agree with their position, which they have rationally presented and articulated is shallow and destructive. Reasonable people disagree. But those differences are settled in rational, productive way which ultimately benefits the common philosophy we share.

Just my $0.02.
Aaron Gardner

That is unless he wants to be impeached.
sarg01

The only thing he might try it with would be the Social Security checks — but he can pay those regardless.
acat

See, you’re saying “Let’s not take the first step at this time. Wouldn’t be prudent.”

And I suspect you’ll find reason after reason after reason to not want to take that first step. It will never be prudent, and you’ll stay on your couch.

I .. choose differently.

Mew
silentcal2012

is worth two trillion dollars.
Danae

I agree with you Marcus. This really is a game of thrones, and there are many players on the field. Who wins the day is often the side which makes the best alliances. The GOP center must deal with the tea party, who’s biggest modivator is “Taxed enough already” and THAT mantra needs to be repeated OFTEN.

This being said, no one can trust anyone in D.C. to keep their word. That word has to be forced somehow or another. There is little honor left in that place. Knowing this, the Tea Party is likely the most honorable there, that makes them both strong and weak at the same time.

To use a poor analogy, the brittle tree will not stand the windstorn half as well as the flexible willow. Yet, we cannot be so flexible that we get molded so far as to become what we hate.

No, it’s a dangerous and difficult thing to be holding an honorable position. When in that position, you MUST give those who would work with you something to work with. A specific set of areas you can compromise in, and then leveraging that. Once the moderates have that bit of leverage with the tea party, the tea party can add in caveats. All of which must be flexible enough to pass the Senate.

I do not envy Bohner in this. He really has a very very difficult position. He has gone up in myestimation a lot in the last couple of weeks, he is doing a seriously difficult job, and one that takes a certain brilliance.
constitutionalconservative

+1000 for everything you are doing
__t_i_m_o_t_h_y__

I want to help work against Boehner too!
rickey5825

We have 1/2 of 1/3 of the government!We are in a position to influence policy but not dictate it!Stubborn refusal to take small victories now insures NO victories in the future.We need to take what we can get now and work towards replacing demoncraps and rinos in the next election,especially Obumble!Starting a civil war in the party now is just stupid.We need to primary the faux republicans and beat the demoncraps if we want change.Throwing actual conservatives under the bus is counterproductive!
concap

With or with out the bill passing
tea4me

Time to start primary plans.

And Allen West is off any and all of my national office wish lists.

Not only was he the first to cave…he lead the charge,
Repair_Man_Jack

Is that your sock-puppet?
http://nerds4cain.com Brookhaven

CCB was tabled in the senate, because the GOP leaders in the senate didn’t even attempt to fight to bring it to a vote.

Polling shows over 60% of Americans support this approach; over 70% of Americans say the support a balanced budget amendment.

The GOP only needed the help of 4 Democratic senators to bring this to a floor for a vote. Surely they could have gotten at least 4 of the Democratic senators up for reelection in 2012 from red states to help them if they had tried.

Nelson (FL), McCaskill (MO), Nelson (NE), Tester (MT), Conrad (ND), Casey (PA), Webb (VA), & Manchin (WV) are all up for relection in 2012, and face tough relection fights in states that are turning redder. Are you saying we couldn’t have gotten at least four of these to go along with bringing CC&B to the floor for a vote IF we have really applied the public relations pressure?

Heck, there’s every chance it might have passed the senate if the GOP leadership had gotten 100% behind it. But the senate leadership didn’t even try.
joecollins

. . . and the cost to borrow money goes up? Is the extra cost to borrow at more expensive rates included in this debt ceiling raise? Or are we going to go sliding into the 2012 election with another debt limit raise a few weeks before the November election?

Sorta, kinda, maybe a new debt ceiling request would be fitting revenge for all this crap. It would be fitting to see these Republican & Democrat politicians face the voters with a fresh request for more money at the eleventh hour.

Harumph.
ghostship

There’s a story linked by Drudge of a Dem lawmaker who’s saying that nobody he knows has seen Reid’s bill.

Maybe Boehner’s bill and Reid’s bill are really one and the same and they are working together to pull a fast one on the Conservatives.

YAY! I CAN HAZ CONSPIRACY THEORY. LOL

Hmm….I made this comment in jest but then again……
lineholder

Obama has said that this is what is tempting to him to do and what he would prefer to do. And depending on the circumstances, I could also see him wanting to go after a huge increase in spending, just for the purpose of doubling down on anyone who dares to stand against him. That was sort of scary when I first thought about…that much power over our entire economy in the hands of someone who has admitted to the weakness of being tempted to misuse it.

But Moody’s and S&P have both said that the spending cuts are what will make the difference in whether or not we maintain our current credit status. And realistically speaking, there is any positive political collateral to be gained for Obama to take this one on.

Obama is a very political creature, and I can’t see him blowing everything he has ever tried to accomplish in one fell swoop by responding out of pure malice. No matter how much he might wish he could double down, this is one case where he won’t.

So he would have to have spending cuts. There’s only so much of defense spending that he can legitimately cut before even his own base cries “foul”. This only leaves entitlements…the sacred cows of the left.

He isn’t going to want to take sole responsibility on cutting entitlements, especially not now, a little over a year before the election, with people from his own base already whispering that he needs to be primaried. None of the Dems want to take on cutting entitlements right now. Even for the ones who are actually objective enough to recognize that cuts in entitlement spending have to happen don’t want to touch it.

So they are laying it all on the shoulders of the Repubs, yet continuously letting it be known what they (the Dems) want in the bill and refusing to countenance any efforts put forth by Repubs that don’t include what they want.

For all that we say about Repubs being cowards, the Dems are much, much worse.
silentcal2012

He’ll eviscerate the military first. Announce rapid withdrawals, base closings, and furloughs first.

One thing he wont do is go crawling to Congress and pass ccb
That would be like Reagan embracing socialism. He’s a hardened radical.
http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

anyway?

Credit markets aren’t fooled by the hocus pocus of cuts in out years that never come.
nighthawk

We will live to fight another day….especially after we have the Senate and White House..
.I know, I know, sometimes we just have to hold our noses and do it
rightwingmom52

I doubt your letter looks anything like what most redstate regulars have sent. It sure doesn’t look anything like mine.
__t_i_m_o_t_h_y__

So, when the Boehner plan fails, it won’t just be Obama and the press against the timid rhinos; rather, we will have strong conservative candidates taking it right to Obama’s glass jaw.

A Boehner fail will not be an Obama victory.
Right Reason

*
sarg01

There’s no “surely” about it. None of those senators have had anything positive to say about CCB.

By the way, Conrad and Webb are retiring, so the redness of their states doesn’t help.
Aaron Gardner

Take your meds.
concap

Meaning
Disadvantage yourself in order to do harm to an adversary.

This was made up for people just like you.

Only instead of yourself, it will be the Nation you will be placing at a disadvantage.
lineholder

that I am currently questioning the judgment of those who came out in early support of Boehner’s bill, before it was scored to even determine whether it would meet the prerequisites that would keep us from losing our credit rating. West is one that surprised me, and so did Paul Ryan.
blaze422

I might be a one trick pony but I think that mobilizing the nation behind cc&b requires better messaging. l Rush reminded me that the budget goes up 7% each year going forward…and that is starting with obama’s inflated current budget.
He said it is like a man who figures he’s going to gain 100 pounds this year….when he gains 75 pounds instead it would be crazy for him to claim he lost 25 pounds. That’s exactly what congress is drawing up.
Rush’s metaphor needs to be repeated….
traversecityconservative

got in the mix with his stupid letter in Townhall. They don’t get it – this is OUR HILL to stand on and defend. Boehner doesn’t understand that. I think Obama does though – I really think this is all about splitting our base. But I really believe the Republicans are 80% Conservative (the people, not the legislators). The House GOP needs to hold the line for us. So what if the debt ceiling isn’t raised. I’m to the point now where I welcome it.
__t_i_m_o_t_h_y__

.
youngconstitutionalist

The House that the GOP has just so happens to be the one where spending and revenue bills are supposed to originate! As far as the Constitution is concerned, beyond the proposal of a budget and a possible veto should a bill get to the President’s desk, the President has little say in the matter. Executives have zero, I repeat zero, authority to demand tax increases. That is the job of the House of Representatives.
youngconstitutionalist

West on this one, but he is definitely on probation from now on. Almost everyone will cave at some point, but this a bit too early for my liking.
http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

“Nelson (FL), McCaskill (MO), Nelson (NE), Tester (MT), Conrad (ND), Casey (PA), Webb (VA), & Manchin (WV) are all up for relection in 2012″

They all voted to table (ie KILL) the CCB.
They are AGAINST CCB.
You can run 30 second ads on it.

“Are you saying we couldn?t have gotten at least four of these to go along with bringing CC&B to the floor for a vote IF we have really applied the public relations pressure?”

Apparently not.
If there was an error, it may have been to not whip the activists harder on this.
http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

Now people are asking “What Hill are we willing to die on?”

I wouldnt be willing to parse the $30 billion difference between CCB and Boehners caps and call it worthy of risking default … but

Kill Obamacare

That is a hill worth dying for.

So why not make it so? Why not insist on defunding Obamacare in FY2012? We do not need ANY GOP vote for that. ZERO.
runner12

because Boehner told them to get their a**** in line? Surely there are men and women who have more courage than that. I hope one or more told him to kick rocks.

Note to Speaker Boehner: These people were not sent to Washington to kow-tow to you or anybody else. They were sent to represent the American people and what is best for this country. If your “revised” bill stinks as much as the first one, it is you that will be toast.

To all of those establishment Republicans who have name-called us, attacked RS, FreedomWorks, and other true conservative (principled) organizations, I would say thank you. Thank you for showing your true colors and your absolute disdain for the American people and the Tea Party. Now we know who NOT to listen to and who will try and use us to garner political points. Be forewarned, we are going to do everything we can to take the GOP from you and I believe we will succeed.
http://uslibertyjournal.blogspot.com/ Daezy

We will support you. Now is when you separate the men from the boys, to use an apropos euphemism. A lot of this was unanticipated, but the war goes on.

It’s not a pretty sight, the left fights dirty, but the weak-kneed Republicans must be weeded out, or we’re looking at a 3rd Party. Of course, this means more of Obama than any of us want to think about.
ihateliberals

has never been anything other than a RINO. We are in deep Sh&T for the 2012 elections and it is all because of these RINO’s that are still attacking the conservative branch of the GOP. they still don’t get the fact that without the conservative Branch there would be no problem for congress right now passing the Debt ceiling or any other liberal law they wanted to because the Democrats would still be in charge. Actually with Boehner as the Speaker of the house the Democrats are still in charge. They learned early on with the 2011 budget fight that all they had to do is wait until the last minute and Boehner would cave in. That is what they are doing right now. Because of the fight that Boehner is fostering within the Party Obama’s chances for re-election increase everyday. it is to the point of breaking right now and the Tea Party or what ever you want ot call the conservative branch is to the point of breaking away and that will assure a Democratic President in the next two elections.

I have feared this since the day the Tea Party Marched to stop Obamacare and the Republicans did not sign on with them Then Karl Rove started attacking candidates and actually gave Harry Reid another go at Majority leader. If not for Karl Rove reid would have lost his seat and The Democrats would have had to pick someone else as the Majority leader.We conservatives need to make sure we don’t split before the 2012 elections and we have to show Boehner and the other RINO’s that we mean business. We need to go back to the Reagan Era Conservative GOP. The RINO’s fear Reagan almost as much as they Fear Tea Party members. WE need to create a New Name for the Conservative Branch of the Party and then not allow Karl Rove, Boehner, McConnell, Cantor, McCain or any of the other RINO’s to deface us with out them understanding they are defacing themselves. They need to realize we mean business and that we intend to take over and make this country Fiscally sound once again. That means we do not compromise with the left and we become relentless with the Senate until we get what we want. Look what Reagan did and he had a fully Democratic congress most of the time. He stopped the Jimmy Carter carnage and put the country back on it’s feet. the Worst mistake Reagan ever made was having George Bush as his VP. Second mistake was keeping during the second term. He didn’t need the votes that Bush brought to the table the second time around. Bush immediately began to dismantle The Reagan legacy within the first year of his Preisdency. then he turned the country over to Bill Clinton. I could go on withthe legacy of RINO’s but it is a long sad story. One last thing, what is the difference between a Liberal and a RINO? A Liberal doesn’t lie about who they are.
glaucon

“During the Bush Administration, many conservatives got co-opted. It became more important to be on the team than fight on principle. Consequently, we got No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, TARP, the GM bailout, etc.”

“We sent to Washington a group of men and women to repeal Obamacare and cut Washington spending.”

The battle is right now, not sometime in the future. Less than a year ago, the Democrats had the majority in both the House and Senate. They crammed their borrow, tax and spend agenda right down our throats. In the election of 2010, we took their majority away in the House, so that we could say “no”. Now is the time to use that veto.

We can not cave into Obama’s scare tactics. He wants to continue on as if he still had a Democrat majority in the House, with the added benefit that once he gets his way he can claim that it was “bipartisan”. He is bluffing. The Tea Party came to prevent borrowing and spending, not to become useful tools for Obama.

While the slim GOP majority in the House gives us our ability to “veto”, we went one step further and passed a compromise; the Cut, Cap and Balance Bill (CCB). There is no doubt that CCB was a compromise, but instead, Obama and the Democrat Leadership want it all. They want everything their way, and then they want to claim bipartisan support.

Now is the time to stop Obama and his agenda of borrow, tax and spend. There will be no better time.
JX12

It’s whether or not the Republicans in the House – the last line of defense against an ever-expanding government – will pass a bill that they could have otherwise united to defeat, thereby destroying their credibility with the base and almost guaranteeing formation of a third party (which would then lead to the re-election of Obama). Even if a House-passed Boehner bill dies in the Senate, the damage will have by then been done.
littlehouse18

then you will vote third party. Then try looking your kids and grandkids in the face and tell them that , yeah, Obama won because of a third party, and now we are suffering under Socialism, but gosh darnit, those RINOs needed to be taught a lesson.

Sorry to put it in those terms, but it really is that stark. I am fed up too, but this is the worst of all possible times to go third party.
clarioncaller

Republican leadership has so little regard for the awareness and intellect of the public… the TEA PARTY…or the savvy of the Democrats. When out credit is downgraded and the Boehner plan is passed…guess who gets blamed.

I’m coming to believe there is a ruling aristocracy in Washington…and they are the majority of Democrats and Republicans
tea4me

But Paul Ryan sure is good. He was just on Greta…and he sure did articulate the Boehner bill in an articulate reasonable way. If we’re bound to have this, he made it a bit more palitable.
tea4me

…the bar is set way to low and how much more are they going to negotiate away when the loons balk at it?

They just got to back away from the table and quit negotiating. CCB is still the way to go.
gpclaw

Although he was doing a PR pitch for the Boner plan, you could tell he was pissed about it, and wasn’t trying to hide it.
tea4me

…he’s brought me back down to reality.

Boehner’s plan still increases dept by 7 Trillion.

Unbelievable.
tea4me

That should have been “now”….and Rand Paul
Michael Dugas

Ending the Bush Tax Cut in Rate and some Class Warfare BS about the evil rich and the robber barons? And that’s supposed to be a good Conservative position? Those job creating, capitol risking, prosperity making rich who pay an enormous percentage of the income tax in this country already, not to mention the taxes their businesses and investments pay, need to be squeezed a little more…right.
And those evil corporations who already pay amongst the highest corporate taxes on the planet and who get double taxed on any out of country money their business makes if they try to bring that wealth back home….just give a little more right? Sure that’ll work great….Fail.
And you should here yourself talking how you pay 33% like that’s fair in the first place and you have no problem paying more if the Bush tax Cuts go away…Cuz you do know your tax rate will go up too don’t you? You didn’t really fall for that Bush Tax Cuts for the Rich BS did you ? Because you would be wrong…sorry
And really it’s time to let Reagan rest in piece! Even Obama’s trying to steal his legacy.
You know what wvfii, maybe this time we should force the Government to tighten it’s own friggen belt first, get is fiscal house in order FIRST before we just give them even more money to throw away. They need to make cuts, balance the checkbook and tighten the purse strings first before taking more money from our already meager pockets.
You’re never going to become wealthy like you claim you want to if you think it’s ok to throw good money over and over again at a badly managed business. Sorry to pop that bubble but news like that will toughen you up and build a little character……don’t know if it well you become an actual conservative but it can’t hurt.
Oh and BTW, the NY Times, CNN and blog posts….non-partisan? Really?
Michael Dugas

The Dems know it won’t actually fix anything and they’ll be able to say see we went with that Boehner Bill, did it their way, and it didn’t work.
Sure is odd how similar Boehners bill is to Reid’s.
gekster

It’s the “I’m the greatest conservative in the world” line I’ve seen before.
snowshooze

Um, Romney sucks. I will leave it at that.
But I agree, a short government ” Shutdown ” would be a good thing.
Remember, when Newt went to the line, after he got done, Clinton had absolutely no choice but buy in. We won, Clinton took credit. After 5 budgets.
So, it has already been proven, we just need to take it to the line.
Government = Overhead lose that, and we all win.
Oh, and the Government doesn’t really shut down, just the stuff you actually want from them. Like Parks…the business office…( Bills get paid ) Any help line stuff… yeah, it never shuts down. The employees go on paid vacation, they will get their pay for not working.
Too bad on tht note.
Still, we need to play the whole hand. Obama is bluffing..just like he said.
Boehner is gutless. McConnel is a sellout.
We can fix this mess if we move now.
Remember, 1/3 of the country works for the Government, or is on the dole in one way or another. They are rank and file, and will oppose us at every junction. Do not heed their claims.
It is time to jerk the rug out from under them.
Flagstaff

“We” are addicted. Even now, polls indicate people are in favor of fixing the problem, but not if it affects them personally in any negative way, apparently even if they have a net BENEFIT from the fix.

Which is why I’m coming around to supporting a BB amendment. To answer your other points:

1) You are right about the war expenses, but national defense is definitely a legitimate responsibility of the federal government. As to the Democrats overriding the limits with their super-majority, I believe they wouldn’t have had the nerve to do so if they would have had to vote on it in that way. And had they been forced to do it, there would now be no doubt whatsoever that the reason we’re being asked to raise the debt ceiling while even so our credit rating would be downgraded starts with a “D” and ends in “rats.”

2) The limit would be 18% or so, but the goal would be to hold it below that. I know it probably wouldn’t work that way, but it would still be better than it is today.

3) I’m not that familiar with this subject, but it sounds like something that could be handled by law, which I know leaves it open to manipulation.
tex41lb

I sent the following email to Boehner,cc’d to McKeon. Also called McKeon, received a frigid response. Primary anyone?

“Get your ass in line”? Really? I suggest you get yours inline with the majority of Americans who want spending decreased now, with or without the scare tactics associated with raising for the 100th + time a truly imaginary debt ceiling.
I supported the new members of congress election with as many dollars as I could. Most I could not afford to spend. Now you have the nerve to tell them to get in line. Where to, the bankruptcy of our Nation?

Mr. Speaker, if I were in Congress my response to you..NUTS
bcomber38

Read my hand writing.NO NEW TAXES.CUT,CAP,BALANCE.no end to Bush tax cuts.Starve the beast.

RS

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