Crossing a Line and Overreaching

http://redmeatconservative.blogspot.com/ Daniel Horowitz

Here I thought all these years that GOP leaders were a bunch of limp weaklings. I guess I was wrong. They are as truculent and bellicose as hell. Noe if they only exhibited such ferocity towards the Democrats…

zornorph

First of all, this is a political argument, it is not the ‘Lord’s Work’ – as a Christian, I actually find that comment offensive.
As for redistricting in OH, there are logical reasons to cut up Jordan’s seat – one GOP seat had to go, after all. Jordan was playing hardball and apparently when the ball got hit back at him, he started crying like a little girl. Too bad; politics isn’t beanbag.

Aaron Gardner

Hopefully Pence will pull his head out of his rear and stand with Jordan.

Spiral

Jordan should just accept the consequences of his decision. I don’t understand why the Ohio GOP carving up Jordan’s district in retaliation is a surprise.

When you vote with the Democrats and Nancy Pelosi on important issues, you can’t be surprised if the GOP higher ups decide that you are too unreliable to be trusted.

clintonformccain

John Boehner is giving a moment’s thought to Ohio redistrcting today. I think he has more pressing issues.

streiff

You’re choosing a very low percentage evolutionary strategy. Just saying.

Repair_Man_Jack

You wouldn’t know the Lord’s work if he told you to shut your pie-hole and go perform it.

streiff

your pursued an evolutionary dead end.

NB to those observing, we are defending Rep. Jordan. If you like what happened to him you might want to express those sentiments somewhere else.

rightwingmom52

to oust Jordan pretty quickly, didn’t they? Imagine what they could do if they focused on the enemy.

streiff

we redistricted you out of RedState.

If you have an issue, hit the contact button. Otherwise have a nice life.

Repair_Man_Jack

We should be generous and arrainge for one his favorite golf partners to have lots of time on his hands in 2013 as well. Primary John Boehner!

rightwingmom52

everything you do to preserve not only conservative principles, but also Christian principles, i.e., the “Lord’s Work.”

As for crybabies, well, Boehner’s record speaks for itself.

silentcal2012

This is over-reaching. Federal politicians have absolutely nothing to do with redistricting. Its a state matter. There is nothing Boehner can do except express his opinion, which he “allegedly” did.

When a state loses a seat, there is always a lot scheming and bad blood. I doubt anyone around here really knows what is going on if the back rooms of the Ohio state legislature, and I doubt Boehner’s influence or concern.

avgjo

Divine Providence was involved in the founding of this nation? If so, then Mr. Erickson is exactly right: those opposing the Boehner trash bill are trying to be good stewards of what God has given, as we are directed to do as Christians.

As a Christian, I find your comment offensive.

runner12

We should begin a grassroots effort to oust Boehner as Speaker. Then we can primary him out of office.

1stRichard

President Bush’s Tax Cuts Have Made The Tax Code More Progressive. The share of taxes paid by the top 5 percent of taxpayers will be 53.3 percent, and would have been 51.6 percent without the cuts. The share of taxes paid by the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers will be 3.4 percent, and would have been 4.0 percent without the cuts. The 92.1 million taxpayers with annual incomes of less than $50,000 in 2003 saw a 47 percent reduction in their average tax bill from President Bush. The 26.9 million taxpayers with annual incomes between $50,000 and $100,000 in 2003 saw a 20 percent reduction in their average tax bill from President Bush. The economy grew at a healthy 3.5 percent rate, added nearly 5 million new jobs and the unemployment rate fell to 4.8 percent.

Why do liberals want to end the Bush tax cuts? I had thought the left wants More Progressive and the right wants Less Progressive, what am I missing?

Aaron Gardner

Absolutely naive.

Aaron Gardner

Because it has no place being under this post.

http://redmeatconservative.blogspot.com/ Daniel Horowitz

of redistricting. Isn’t Boehner from Ohio too?

Jim Tomasik

Cong Steve King get Mr. B’s job?

Jim Tomasik

jdghak

earlgrey

their staff at least believes they have made up their mind to support.

I must admit that I did not agree with you Erick at first, but now as the tide has shifted I do believe they should hold out. Why am I always on the losing side.

Whatever happens with redistricting, I hope Red State and others make this very painful for Boehner. If they cut out Jordan like this, than I want Boehner gone. He should have lost the position anyway after 2006 and 2008 debacles. Why didn’t they pick someone else?

Matt In The Hook

Speaking as a Christian, specifically a Catholic, I do not believe God had any part in our nation being founded nor does he afford it “special protection” above any other nation. The Lord is unconcerned with things of this world and Christ himself refused to be baited into taking any political positions whatsoever except to render to Caesar what is Caesar’s and render to God what is God’s.

Politics is the work of and for men. Not for God. We have a responsibility as Christians to be a good steward of everything we have, including the country, but it is still not a work of God

As for this thread, it’s just astonishgly idiotic. We should be fighting Obama, not one another. Erick’s insistence that voting Boehner’s plan down gives us a stronger hand makes zero tactical sense whatsoever. The Senate will not pass CCB and just because liberals support the nanny state does not mean they aren’t as stalwart in those beliefs as we are on the right. I honest to God believe that Erick thinks Reid and Obama will cave to any and every demand conservatives make because they are liberal and liberals are weak by their nature. That is dead wrong.

Matt In The Hook

Speaking as a Christian, specifically a Catholic, I do not believe God had any part in our nation being founded nor does he afford it “special protection” above any other nation. The Lord is unconcerned with things of this world and Christ himself refused to be baited into taking any political positions whatsoever except to render to Caesar what is Caesar’s and render to God what is God’s.

Politics is the work of and for men. Not for God. We have a responsibility as Christians to be a good steward of everything we have, including the country, but it is still not a work of God

As for this thread, it’s just astonishgly idiotic. We should be fighting Obama, not one another. Erick’s insistence that voting Boehner’s plan down gives us a stronger hand makes zero tactical sense whatsoever. The Senate will not pass CCB and just because liberals support the nanny state does not mean they aren’t as stalwart in those beliefs as we are on the right. I honest to God believe that Erick thinks Reid and Obama will cave to any and every demand conservatives make because they are liberal and liberals are weak by their nature. That is dead wrong.

JSobieski

over $85B in 2012 cuts, a phantom BBA, and smoke-and-mirrors spending caps.

I hope we can de-escalate from this. Any “war” on the right side of the isle is just giving Obama and Reid what they want.

Never before has so much been put at risk for so little reward. The emotional investment that people have in CCB is just that . . . an emotional investment.

I just heard Sean Hannity talking about how (1) he supports CCB and (2) how any plan should not increase the debt ceiling more than the immediate cuts. Well, CCB raises the ceiling by more than $1T while there are only $111B in immediate cuts. The point being that CCB doesn’t come close to satisfying his own standard.

I don’t understand how folks have gotten so locked in to the CCB given their standards. It takes a 2/3 vote of the House to pass a CA. We didn’t get that number, but people nonetheless presume that all we need is for the Senate to vote to send the BBA to the states. We get mad about baseline budgeting, but the CCB savings are based on the same phony baseline that the Boehner plan is.

My theory is that we wanted to believe the CCB was more than it was. The R’s in DC wanted us to believe that the CCB was more than it was. Now we are cannibalizing ourselves based on phantoms and smoke.

Jordon should be defended—he should not be the victim of redistricting. If Boehner doesn’t walk it back, he should be ousted. Otherwise, we need to at least get along if we can’t agree.

This entire debate illustrates that without hard numbers–charts and graphs that people carry arround and point to–budget debates are impossible to have in an intelligent manner because it is challenging to get a proper apples to apples comparison of the data.

We should not insult each other. Nothing good will come of it. All I ask it that those so vehement in their support of the CCB ask themselves if the CCB truly is a line worth digging in for. $85B + gimmicks seems like a cheap prize.

dukeroyal

I couldn’t agree more.

Matt In The Hook

Will probably get you banned these days. This site’s self-importance, sniping and ignorance in recent weeks regarding this issue is devolving into levels I haven’t seen outside of Dkos and FDL.

At least we have a moderating system in place that prevents the vile invective they spew from popping up here.

Seriously guys, we’re in the situation that the Dems were on Obamacare just before they passed it. The netroots were screeching that it was a gigantic sellout to corporations and a massively watered-down version of what they wanted. And what it really was, was a victory for statism and a destruction of personal liberty. Basically it was everything they could have asked for aside from socialized medicine.

We’re getting everything we want here, just in smaller doses. No tax hikes, no revenue increases, some actual real cuts and keeping this issue on the front burner to damage Obama. How the hell does voting it down strengthen our hand? All that will lead to is forcing someone in the Senate to filibuster Reid’s bill, which will further erode public sentiment for our side given how late in the game it is. And if there is no filibuster, then we just get Reid’s bill sent to the House. How is that a win at all?

d_lamar

I agree with my senator, Rand Paul, that none of the proposals being debated are serious about solving this country’s debt crisis. The only thing that is being discussed is trimming a small amount from the increases in spending which are being planned.

Until they start talking about reverting to 2006 spending levels, it’s all just a sham to fool us into thinking they’re actually doing something about the federal debt.

Arguing about cutting a few billion here or there is merely arguing about pocket change compared to the total debt.

It’s disgusting.

Aaron Gardner

Seriously, if we suck so bad then leave.

dukeroyal

If they throw him out of his district he move to Boehner’s district and run against him.

rpopp23

“Jim Jordan and I may not always agree on strategy, but we are friends and allies, and the word retribution is not in my vocabulary. I look forward to continuing to serve with him in the U.S. House after the redistricting process in Ohio is complete, and for many years to come.?

Let’s move on to fighting the Dems.

dukeroyal

I don’t know how he will end up voting but hopefully he won’t vote with Boehner.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

PS the more you people freak out about Erick, the more we know he’s right and has been right.

Matt In The Hook

And I think there need to be cooler, more tactical heads here.

But I have yet to see a genuine plan as to what happens if and when Boehner’s plan gets voted down. How does that give us leverage? How does it force the Senate to pass CCB? No one has explained that. They’ve just been saying “Boehner’s plan is bad, it’s a sellout.” Well great, glad you think that. I don’t think it’s remotely ideal but it’s something that has a decent chance of passing that accomplishes what we set out to do just at a smaller scale.

By the way, the whole “Reid is afraid to put CCB to a vote” is nonsense. It would not pass. The public understands that voting to table it is a vote against it. They’re not fooled by technicalities. Do you think a response to someone slamming a Dem about voting to table a BBA would pass muster if they said “I didn’t vote against it, I just voted to table it.” Please.

The real reason Reid does not want to put it to a vote is because it would set the Senate’s long process in motion and take forever to get to a cloture vote. And what happens then? Dems vote in favor of cloture, then it takes 30 hours to get to an up or down vote on it. He wants as much flexibility as possible to take up another vehicle to pass the debt limit be it Boehner’s bill, his bill or the military bill already passed by both houses.

bk

I wish some of our “leaders” would get as hacked off at Democrats as they do their fellow Republicans.

runner12

Founding of this country. While some were Deists and/or Enlightenment thinking, many were devout Christ-followers who firmly believed they were doing the Lord’s work.

Samuel Adams was called the Father of the American Revolution by Jefferson. He also was a devout Christ-follower and believed that God had a purpose in the American Revolution. He was not alone.

I might also add that many of the Founding Fathers supported the Revolution due to religious discrimination. In fact many ardently opposed the discrimination against Catholics in Britain.

As to Jesus ( since you brought it up), you are correct when you said Jesus dud not comment on politics. But you left out that He did give us many principles on how to live our lives. Being fiscally responsible and honest was one of them. So any time we do these things, whether as a businessman/woman, a doctor, a lawyer, or a politician; we are doing the Lord’s work because we are obeying Him.

Aaron Gardner

Unless you are just trying to cause trouble, it has no point being in this discussion.

Adding that in to the debate makes you look the a jerk who is trying to cause even more division.

And comparing us to Dkos or FDL is absolute BS and you know it.

Fla Mom

Sadly, I guess they are fooling some, but everything they’re talking about is chump change. I remember when John Kasich was in the Congress and was pushing for budget cuts. They couldn’t even agree on $50 billion in cuts, and he said if they couldn’t agree on that trivial amount, that they were sunk. And they were, and we are.

Fla Mom

Matt In The Hook

I believe they were 100% correct that we are endowed by our Creator with unalienable rights. I believe they were morally justified to throw off tyrannical government through the use of military force. I believe they set up a system of governance that still has yet to be equalled in the free world.

I do not, however, believe that God had any hand in creating our nation. The universe? Of course. Our souls? You better believe it. Our redemption? He’s the only reason we have a chance at heaven.

Whether some Founders believed their cause was blessed by God is a matter for themselves and their now long-dead peers. I do not believe God cares a lick about matters of this world, only the next. Surely that means we can do things through government that are good like fighting the Nazis and protecting the unborn. God smiles upon that for sure. But does he care about the national debt? Not a chance.

He wants us to be good stewards. He wants us to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty. I disagree with the left that these things need to be done through government and I find it appalling when they say cutting entitlements is un-Christlike. So I’ll equally refuse to find it acceptable when our side claims a divine mandate.

Matt In The Hook

I believe they were 100% correct that we are endowed by our Creator with unalienable rights. I believe they were morally justified to throw off tyrannical government through the use of military force. I believe they set up a system of governance that still has yet to be equalled in the free world.

I do not, however, believe that God had any hand in creating our nation. The universe? Of course. Our souls? You better believe it. Our redemption? He’s the only reason we have a chance at heaven.

Whether some Founders believed their cause was blessed by God is a matter for themselves and their now long-dead peers. I do not believe God cares a lick about matters of this world, only the next. Surely that means we can do things through government that are good like fighting the Nazis and protecting the unborn. God smiles upon that for sure. But does he care about the national debt? Not a chance.

He wants us to be good stewards. He wants us to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty. I disagree with the left that these things need to be done through government and I find it appalling when they say cutting entitlements is un-Christlike. So I’ll equally refuse to find it acceptable when our side claims a divine mandate.

http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

His staff said he supported Jim Jordan.

They had no comment about whether Boehner had any involvement.

The no comment seemed a little weird to me. Why not just say no Boehner was not involved? Pence may not know if Boehner is involved but he is also not confident enough to declare him innocent.

runner12

You have not made one coherent argument in favor of your position. Anytime anyone points out the fallacies in your point of view, you result to name-calling and attacking.

You have not explained

1,) Why the strategy you are proposing is the right one despite history telling us
otherwise.

2). Why the Boehner plan is so much better than CCB, even though it will be
DOA in the Senate, like CCB.

You have stated in your last pargraph basically any plan will do, as long as it raises the debt-ceiling. You don’t appear to be concerned about accounting gimmicks or the loss of our triple AAA rating.

What do you stand for? What is your answer to the debt crisis?

runner12

NT

wennejunk

If Boehner succeeds in having him re-redistricted out of a job, I recommend Rep. Jordan purchase a home in the next district over and primary him.

PaladinLostHour

Because, as a Catholic myself, I can tell you you might want to google Papal Encyclicals + government, or Papal Encyclicals + democracy, and do some reading.

If you do, you’ll find very little support for your assertion that “The Lord is unconcerned with things of this world” , as extended to government.

PaladinLostHour

People have strong feelings on this issue. Folks are passionate about this issue.

But comparing the discourse here, to that evil melange of self importance hipster doofus, nasty half baked socialist swill that oozes out your screen if you have the misfortune to land on Dkos = you have to have seriously lost all perspective to make that comparison.

http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

Scripture makes it quite clear that God is intimately involved in the rise and fall of nations. He makes it quite clear that He honors those who honor Him.

If you don’t think God cares about a nation, its politics, and how it treats its citizens then you need to read the prophets, Paul, and Peter.

The question is not whether God is on our side or not. The question is whether we are on the side of God or not – whether we honor Him and organize and governor ourselves according to His will.

On a side note, I care more for what the Founders thing than I do your ahistorical and un-Biblical opinion.

wennejunk

“I do not, however, believe that God had any hand in creating our nation. ”

Psst. Fellow Catholic: Brush up on scripture. The non-Catholics seem to think we don’t read it. Usually they are correct.

All government is ordained by God.

1stRichard

I see no established Republicans fighting back again, my bad wrong thread

wennejunk

Thanks for clearing that up.

runner12

Cross reference the word “debt” and you will find quite a lot. That is what being a good steward means. Remember ” the borrower shall be a slave to the lender”? If God calls us to be good stewards does He not call us to support those in government who support the same principles? This does not make any sense.

I also take great exception that God only cares about the next world and not this one. If this is true, then why help the poor, the downtrodden, and the weak? Why do anything to alleviate pain or fight tyranny in this world? Using your logic we should just sit in our basements, open up a can of Beenie Weenies and wait to die.

As this is not a religious/theology site, I will drop this convo. But I greatly encourage you to re-read your comments and ponder the ramifications if everyone bought into your philosophy. Even though I strongly disagree with you, this is last paragraph is meant sincerely and kindly.

rightwingmom52

The claims of God or Jesus didn’t say this or that always amaze me. The Bible is the inspired word of God. As such, the words written of Paul, Peter and others matter – those men were simply the vessels through which God spoke.

However, regardless of your comments and mine above, I believe the budget fight encompasses discretionary spending that funds abortions, does it not? As such, fighting discretionary spending is, in fact, fighting against abortions. That alone makes it the Lord’s work.

Aaron Gardner

Was just letting you know.

runner12

He is just a squish.

kyconservative

One way to get our revenge against the Wall Street controlled, fat-cat/D.C. Establishment Republican Party is to encourage Sarah Palin to run for President on a third party Tea Party ticket. That would show Boehner/McConnell & Co. who is boss. I don’t even like Sarah Palin that much but given how the Republican establishment is selling out our country today, I would support her if she did this. Same for a Tea Party Congressional candidate or legislative candidate running in my area.

I have supported the Republican Party my entire adult life, including service as a County Chairman and elected official. I have canvassed, solicited money and done about everything imaginable for the party, but with what I am seeing today, no more. Moreover, at this point I don’t care if Obama is re-elected or not, because there’s no a dime’s worth of difference between him and the Wall Street/corporatist/DC establishment wing of the Republican Party

earlgrey

that this rumor was probably started by some liberal republicans in Ohio that don’t like Jordan.

If they don’t like him in Ohio, he can come and move to TN and run for Senator . Corker is up in 2012.

http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

Baptists always bring food into the discussion. Hence, the Beenie Weenie comment. : )

Speaking as a baptist of course.

runner12

Sen. Coburn is not running for re-election.

runner12

That was a good one. I am actually non-denominational. I sort of paraphrased that phrase from something I heard from Steven Furtick ( pastor in SC).

But I do live in the MidSouth, where good food is a part of life.

ghostship

I don’t think handle anymore such victories.

I mean, wow! We give the Democratic a raise in the debt ceiling and in return we get…..uh…..um….. What do we get again? Oh yeah, we get a bunch of accounting gimmicks.

Yep! I’m going to need those drugs soon with wins such as this or at least a drink.

Either way I need something with victories like this.

rightwingmom52

I’m not Baptist, but we church of Christ members make a mean potato salad and green bean casserole.

To quote Rick Bragg (my favorite Southern writer) in his recount of the recent tornadoes in Alabama:

“As Southerners, we know that a man with a chain saw is worth 10 with a clipboard, that there is no hurt in this world, even in the storm of the century, that cannot be comforted with a casserole, and that faith, in the hereafter or in neighbors who help you through the here and now, cannot be knocked down.”

acat

Have to remember that.

Somehow, I’ve become a yearly attender of a Baptist pot luck and fireworks display. Interesting group, very good food. I bring marinated mushrooms, and they always go quickly…

Mew

runner12

I love marinated mushrooms or any mushroom for that matter. Not all people are big fans of the little fungi, but I am.

inovrmihd

What are the implications for his speakership and for cantor? is it jsut an emabarassment, or is it something more significant?

jerry39

But I don’t see a boehner benefit to this leaking right now. He should be even more adament that this is a childish and thuggish threat. I have been very hard on the speaker the last few days, but that doesn’t mean he should take the heat for this with 0 evidence.

rightwingmom52

is well worth a read.

http://www.southernliving.com/general/tornado-stories-what-stands-in-a-storm-00417000074341/

It made me laugh and cry all at the same time.

Carner_York

When it comes right down to it, it is the electorate that rules the day. It was Nevadans who put Harry Reid back in power when Bugs Bunny would have been a better choice. It was Americans who were duped into voting for Obama. It’s us. Get it? And I hate to say it but the only thing, and I mean the ONLY thing that will defeat progressives is when they become an impediment to our survival.

Ausonius

Back in APRIL this article was in the Columbus Dispatch, and detailed how Boehner was very much indeed involved and was (implicitly) refusing to eliminate 2 Democrat seats.

And note the last lines which I quote here:

Some analysts suggest that the Republicans might eliminate two Democratic districts by combining Kucinich with Fudge and putting Kaptur and Sutton in the same district; those moves would set off two spirited Democratic primaries.

But Rademacher and others think that is unlikely. “It’s fairly difficult to envision a plan where the Republicans do not put one of their seats at risk,” Rademacher said.

David Wasserman, the House editor of the nonpartisan Cook Political Report in Washington, said that “for Republicans to even attempt to eliminate two Democratic seats would be to create more problems than they would solve.”

Instead, Wasserman predicted that the Republicans will fold Sutton’s and Kucinich’s districts together and eliminate Johnson’s 6th District seat. Another option, according to some Republicans, is to combine Chabot’s district with the 2nd District represented by Jean Schmidt of Loveland.

Analysts also point out that Republicans would like to draw safer seats for Tiberi, freshman Steve Stivers of Columbus and Steve LaTourette of Mentor. Tiberi and LaTourette are close political allies of Boehner.

For that reason, Boehner might be reluctant to eliminate Johnson’s seat because he has loyally sided with the speaker on the temporary spending bills to keep the government open.

By contrast, Chabot, Jim Jordan of Urbana and Schmidt voted against the compromise that Boehner negotiated with President Barack Obama – a measure that trimmed federal spending by $38 billion for the rest of the current fiscal year.

“There is a way to ax any incumbent that you want,” Wasserman said.

See:

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/04/17/copy/gops-new-district-map-has-to-upset-some-ohioans-in-congress.html?sid=101

Lamplighter331

He just doesn’t seem to have the intestinal fortitude to be an era changer. No matter what happens in November 2012, I think the leadership needs to be scrubbed clean and dispensed with.

I don’t think Boehner should get a tenured “I was there” automatic reelection as Speaker.

Something about Cantor and events of this past few months bugs me. I don’t think he should be the presumptive successor for Speaker either.

There’s got to be someone else, who it is? I don’t know. I’m from Florida, and I’m not sure the next Speaker should come from here.

So, who steps up? Ryan? Jordan?

Ausonius

Here again is the salient quote from the article above:

“For that reason, Boehner might be reluctant to eliminate Johnson’s seat because he has loyally sided with the speaker on the temporary spending bills to keep the government open.

By contrast, Chabot, JIM JORDAN of Urbana and Schmidt voted against the compromise that Boehner negotiated with President Barack Obama – a measure that trimmed federal spending by $38 billion for the rest of the current fiscal year.

“There is a way to ax any incumbent that you want,” Wasserman said.”

(My Emphasis Above)

See:

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/04/17/copy/gops-new-district-map-has-to-upset-some-ohioans-in-congress.html?sid=101

inovrmihd

The fact that Boehner embraced the McConnnell plan, as well as the fact that they never introduced the payment prioritization bill which would have given the house mroe leverage, they just wnat to getg a deal done to protect their positions.

Matt In The Hook

I never denied that. I wrote that elsewhere in this thread. God certainly cares if we commit ourselves to unjust war, condone through the force of law the murder of millions of His unborn children or conduct scientific experiments after first destroying human life.

But to argue that government is ordained by God is absurd. In fact, it’s one of the reasons we overthrew the British Crown! Government derives its authority from the people, not from God.

God allows things to happen in this world, hence Christ’s statement about Pilate having the power to release him or crucify him. I cannot understand how anyone can possibly think specific governments, nations, regimes or what have you is the result of God’s intervention.

Jack_Savage

Obviously.

runner12

the more I am convinced that he and Teller are heroes. They and others are daring to go up against the Washington elites. They are the Mr. Smith’s of our times.

charliesalmanack

….and he decides to pull it to avoid failure, my advice is to immediately come back with something that will pass.

Need to put the pressure on Reid to actually pass something.

Need to get the focus off of the House GOP.

Either go with “Cut, Cap, and Balance +” , or the new “Penny” plan by Connie Mack. Either bill will pass, quickly.

Then you can accurately say that you’ve raised the 2 debt ceiling times, and it is now up to the Senate to act.

acat

Smart girl. She’ll do well.

Life goes on. Goes on better with good neighbors.

End of threadjack?

Mew

Finrod

Considering how much we spend every year fighting the War on Some Drugs, and the expected revenue we’d get from taxing it, the net savings would likely be greater than anything anyone’s proposed so far.

Sad, isn’t it?

acat

Try googling “mushrooms acat site:redstate.com” …

Mew

Jack_Savage

“I do not believe God cares a lick about matters of this world, only the next.”

vs

“God certainly cares if we commit ourselves to unjust war, condone through the force of law the murder of millions of His unborn children or conduct scientific experiments after first destroying human life.”

vs

“The Lord is unconcerned with things of this world…”

vs

“Surely that means we can do things through government that are good like fighting the Nazis and protecting the unborn. God smiles upon that for sure.”

Matt vs Matt – who will win? Tune in later for the epic confrontation!

Bill S

It doesn’t get much more explicit than that

1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

(Bolding mine, although I suppose Paul’s scribes might have bolded it also>

rightwingmom52

If she’s heading down south from your neck of the woods without family or friends in the area, you just let me know if she ever needs any help.

I’m at warbington3@att dot net.

bigredone

I have served the Kentucky GOP as a county chairman, member of the state executive committee and elected official too. My political involvement parallels yours.

I am opposed to this sellout of America by the Speaker, and I hope it fails.

It is time for a new leader.

Matt In The Hook

Sorry for the reference to my father’s side of the family but that’s such a massive reach man. The Lord is unconcerned with things of this world such as material goods, business transactions, fashions, pop culture, need I go on?

Wars, abortion, the death penalty, etc all have concern with the next world and the salvation of souls! I daresay God should have concern whether we as a society, through our governments, deem human life sacred or not. I really doubt he’s fretting away about our nation’s debt ceiling though.

That’s not to say that the debt is not an important issue for us. It most certainly is. But it is not an issue on par with say, protecting unborn children from senseless mass murder.

MikeKS

Thank you.

Matt In The Hook

…and so many other murderous governments and nations? No. He permitted them to be in existence, but it was man who created them and man responsible for their sins.

Bill S

He established them through men as part of his plan for the nation and the world. Similarly, the Bible is the word of God, spoken through men. His work is always done through men…but it IS Him who is doing it.

The Scripture speaks for itself.

http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

“For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.” (Romans 13:1)

Pilate said to Jesus: “Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?” Jesus responded, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above.” (John 19:10-11)

I could also point you to Daniel where an angel reveals God’s future plan for the nations. I could refer you to the prophets where God uses nations to punish other nations. An excellent example is Daniel 5.

Bill S

of God, the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God of the universe. To think He can’t be troubled with the aspects of our lives implies that He is similarly unconcerned with the details of our lives that we bring to him regularly in prayer.

“Oh, be quiet, Bill. Those things are too trivial for me.”

No. I don’t think so.

acat

But I do appreciate the offer.

Mew

chamberD

The very fact that Mike Pence would hesitate for even a second in deciding between Boehner and the RSC speaks volumes about where his heart is.

Call his office and try to twist his arm? I don’t think so. If he doesn’t know what the right thing to do is at this point in his life (and career), then no amount of input from us is going to make a difference.

The country is on the precipice of full-blown currency devaluation caused by Congress’s — and specifically the Republican Party’s — failure to stand up for free-markets and limited government. If the Republican Party had performed its role, according to its own platform, of working to achieve limited-government — and not instead put the job onto future generations of Republicans — we would not be at this sorry juncture, sorry and avoidable. I have no patience for these statists in sheep’s clothing.

Aaron Gardner

Scope

to vote for the Boehner bill up for a vote right now. Please put this in your memory bank, all that have been pushing McDonnell for a higher office. He also signed a recent Executive Order that all state government vehicles must convert to alternative fuels. So much goes for what was “supposed” to be a small government conservative governor. There are other items as well. I know, I live in VA.

OTOH, VA Atty. Gen. Cuccinelli has been railing against Boehner and McConnell this entire week and said that he will not vote for anyone who will support Boehner or McConnell for any leadership positions in 2013.

Cuccinelli has not taken a Governor run off the table when McDonnell’s 4 years are up. VA only allows one 4 year term.

http://bearingdrift.com/2011/07/28/mcdonnell-urges-virginia-representatives-to-vote-for-boehner-bill/

acat

Just sayin’

Mew

lizfstone

…has ‘forcefully’ said a lot of things in the past few weeks, giving me a glimmer of hope. But, the end result is always the ‘same old, same old.’ So on this Jordan thing, no trust until I see what plays out.

Jack_Savage

I believe He most certainly does, and there is not a word in Scripture that supports your view that he doesn’t. Not a word.

For someone who doesn’t care about the things of this world, sending your only Son to die for those who reside in it seems kinda silly, doesn’t it?

Matt In The Hook

All our leaders are appointed by God. No reason to be politically engaged whatsoever.

dukeroyal

According to the panel on Special Report on Fox Boehner is two votes short.

http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

God works through human agency. He tells us to be good stewards and to govern ourselves accordingly. Just because one acknowledges that God is ultimately in control does not mean that I do not have a personal responsibility – a responsibility bestowed upon me by God.

Aaron Gardner

The happy face would have been fine, the ‘Just sayin’ bit is what you use when you are trying to imply that your opponent supports what you are pointing out as bad.

Don’t be a troll right now.

rightwingmom52

God may use civil authorities who are themselves evil, in order to implement his ultimate plan for humanity. Nebuchadnezzar was the Lord?s ?servant? for the punishment of the kingdom of Judah who had strayed from God, despite the fact that he was a wicked man who was judged eventually for his evil (Jer. 25:8-12).

A government that abuses its divine appointment to deter evil and re-enforce good will be called to account for its abuse of power eventually, and its authorities will reckon with God (Dan. 2:21; 4:17) as Rome ultimately did. I have no doubt that if America continues on its path away from God, she will fall. Maybe not in my time, but whenever God sees fit unless we follow the example of Nineveh (see Jonah 3:10).

jerry39

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/mitch-daniels-urges-indiana-congressmen-vote-boehner-plan_577704.html

Thus easing the guilt of us pro-lifers who drove him from the presidential race.

dhoerster

Erick, I think your slam on Boehner, no matter how bad his decisions have been in this battle, was irresponsible. Nothing in the article that you linked to implies Boehner is trying to squeeze Jordan. I think your idealism about CCB is getting in the way of your judgment.

I think its sad that were fighting amongst ourselves over CCB which really doesn’t have a chance of passing.

We’ve changed the debate from tax increases and spending cuts to just cuts. Obama has been sidelined. The House is the perceived leader in this. These are all wins…and we only have the house. We should get what we can and prepare for 2012 when we can take the Senate and WH and then be able to pass a clean CCB.

Why fight each other now? I don’t understand what the endgame is if the House doesn’t pass any cuts/debt-plan.

swami7774

And then send this thing over to the Senate, where The Undertaker will bury it.
That’s a better outcome than cutting Boehner’s legs out from under him at this point.

Matt In The Hook

My point is that politics is not “the Lord’s work” and God does not care about the budget. We should be good stewards for sure, but this fight over the national debt is not a life or death moral issue like abortion. We must take stands on this principle for sure, but not because “God wills it” to borrow a phrase from circa 1099. And for sure God does not personally intervene in elections to ensure one side or another wins or loses, just as he does not personally give people cancer or something. He permits things to happen. Does He intervene at times with miracles? I believe so. But I don’t understand the logic in saying that he’s personally appointing the world’s political leaders.

I just fail to see how making the Speaker look weak and having no plan that could possibly get Senate votes gives us leverage. Maybe in the context that the Speaker can’t control his caucus so you better pass CCB Senate or else default. But that’s a crazily risky game and one we’re not going to win in the eyes of the public and probably not when it comes to the votes.

Now the most likely scenario is that Boehner’s bill fails, Reid’s either passes the Senate or is filibustered. Either way our side looks absurd in the eyes of the average voter who frankly just wants this situation over.

logan316

It will show that no plan will pass the House without Democrat support. The Tea Party will block everything. Boehner should go back and do the 4 trillion plan with tax increases and cuts. Then let us split the Republican party, Tea party go your way the rest of us will go our way. Yea Obama will be re-elected. But just like in 2006 when conservatives stayed home and allowed the Democrats to take control of congress maybe a lesson will be learned. Then perhaps, if the country survives, we will get a good President in 2016. At least we will all have out principals. No country but we will have our principals

dukeroyal

How anyone can think that raising the debt ceiling by $1 trillion dollars immediately attached to a commitment that Congress will maybe, possibly, prehaps think about cutting spending $1.2 trillion over the next 10 years is beyond me. I believe they already passed a plan called Cut, Cap, and Balance and sent it to the Senate. They should be fighting for that since Reid already said that Boehner’s plan won’t pass the Senate. Hang it around the Democrats necks that they won’t even vote on it.

avgjo

after Boehner’s ‘get your a**’ in line comment and other arm twisting, this story is all too believable. And all we have to support the contrary is Boehner’s word. for me and a whole lot of others, it’s gonna take a lot more than that.

avgjo

nt

logan316

Sorry I typed the wrong word, but my point still stands.

http://www.sheetanchor.org SheetAnchor

This is Gettysburg, and we are the Union Army. There are no guarantees we will gain control of the government in 2012. No one knows what is going to happen. In fact, if we do not fight now, the Tea Party may well abandon Republicans next year. What we do know is this ? we will be $17 trillion dollars in debt in 2012 when they raise the debt ceiling now, and we have gained virtually nothing other than a promise not to increase taxes from Obama. $100 billion a year in cuts? Give me a break! This year?s deficit alone is $1.6 trillion. We can, and must, hold the line now!

Obama and the Dems do not give two cents about the $17 trillion in debt. They are willing to fundamentally transform America, by spending us into oblivion so that we will be a weak country and unable to even pay to defend our freedom, forcing us to submit to some other world powers.

Do you all not realize that President Obama is determined to end this country as we have known it, and relegate it to being ruled over by Russia, and China, and the United Nations? We have to stop these people and the time to hold the line is now! They do not believe we have the nerve, and maybe they are right. I pray not!

We need courage of conviction now. We need to strike now! We need to get on the offensive now! Republicans have all the ammunition they need to strike ? Ryan?s budget; CCB; BBA; immediate spending freeze; roll back spending to 2008 levels; and now a new 1% annual spending reduction plan by Connie Mack and Rand Paul.

Can anyone in the Republican party lead? How come Republican leaders can never seem to make the argument to the people ? even when the truth is on their side? Conservative talk show hosts have to make the argument instead of elected Republican politicians. Unbelievable!

As General Norman ?Dutch? Cota said on the Normandy beach, with the force pinned down and dying, ?Gentlemen, we are being killed on the beaches. Let us go inland and be killed;? and he and his courageous men lept up and opened a gateway forward from that beach. They risked everthing ? everything; and without taking that risk, the D-Day invasion would likely have failed. Sometimes you have to be willng to risk everything to succeed.

Great Americans have time after time, at the critical moment, risked everything; and time and time again they succeeded. This is one of those times. We must be willing to risk everything to preserve the nation. Establishment Republicans are always afraid to do anything the Dems will not support. Don?t you remember when Republicans had the entire Congress, and Democrats in the Senate blocked Bush?s judicial nominees, and Bill Frist wanted to pull the trigger and stop the filibuster of judicial nominees? What did the establishment Republicans do? They, led by McCain and his gang of 14, stopped Frist ? their own Majority leader! They caved. Hence, there is no reason to believe establishment Republicans will ever stand on principle or stand up for patriotic Americans. Republicans are not going to get a supermajority in the Senate in 2012; hence the Dems will block them every time using the filibuster; and the Republicans will not use the ?nuclear? option to overide them.

House freshman, you are now on the political beach. We must get off the beach. You must risk everything to succeed. Let us go inland and be killed. Open the gateway; it is the only way to succeed.

logan316

The country was built on compromise.

logan316

Republicans will abandon the Tea party next year.

avgjo

As for your other point, while there was a degree of compromise, that was on details. this has to do with first principles. The colonial rebels had more in common with King George and the royalists than we do with libs from our own country.

Xasteius

Jim Jordan needs to move next door to Boehner and run against him.

http://www.sheetanchor.org SheetAnchor

view of the Tea Party patriots. We will not surrender.

logan316

I’m more peeved at my screw up. If you want to talk about compromising PRINCIPLES Think of Thomas Jefferson if he had not we would not have grown as a country( Louisiana Purchase,) Right now we need a political victory to move forward. We must stop playing checkers and play chess.

logan316

To heck with who dies with you.

ghostship

$100 Billion a year in cuts?

We aren’t getting anywhere near that even if you include the accounting gimmicks.

However, I do agree with you. We need to fight now.

No more empty promises from the GOP leadership on how they will stand and fight for Conservative causes next time. It’s always the excuse of next time we Conservatives hear from the Establishment.

Next time equals never.

No to Boehner’s sellout plan.

No to accounting gimmicks instead of real cuts.

No to excuses about how the Republicans will fight for us next time.

THE TIME TO FIGHT IS NOW!!!!!!!

Xasteius

the ball is in his court (which it is) and that CCB is dead (well, tabled), so this bill is his last chance.to hit the ball back at Reid to not get the blame in the eyes of the public. Frankly, I’d vote for Boehner bill v. 2 (after he rewrote it), but if I were in charge, my reaction would be thus:

I’d call EVERY network and say I have a VERY IMPORTANT announcement to make. At the press conference, my speech be something like this:

Over the past month, the GOP leadership has sent (x number) of debt-reduction plans to the Senate for a vote. Not one of the them has come up for a vote (or some such). My esteemed colleagues Mr. Reid (points to stand-up of Reid and Obama with a sign that says Liar! and Thug! around it) has refused to consider any of our ideas and insists that we give in to their demands and call it a ‘compromise’.

Currently, the CCB has been tabled in the Senate by the Democrats. Only 4 Democrats are needed to consider this bill for a vote. 20 Democrats campaigned on a balanced budget amendment platform. They are: (points to easel with 20 potraits, introduces the state and senator’s name, ends each with “This man/woman lied to their supporter and hold hostage the fiscal future of the USA!, or some such ) Finishing the speech: I now ask all of these senators to explain they are refusing to return fiscal responsibility to this country. I call upon Mr. Reid and Mr. Obama to explain to the public how fiscal responsibility without raising taxes and shrinking the size of government will be harmful to the USA.’

smagar

If it’s good enough for Thomas Sowell, Michael Barone and Rep. John Campbell of CA, it’s good enough for me.

You get what you can with the Congress and White House you have, not the ones you wish you had. If we want lasting change, we have to win one more election, as Barone pointed out this week.

Harry Reid knows that he doesn’t have to do his job and the Senate doesn’t need to do theirs. Their base, the ones they’re really trying to please, are regular DailyKos and Firedoglake readers.

More to the point, Reid and Obama know that the MSM is passionately committed to the success of liberalism. Because Democrats are the party of liberalism, the MSM is only going to do so much to challenge the Democratic party. They won’t hold the Dems to account because they don’t want to hurt the liberal cause, THEIR cause.

Oh, sure, they’ll beat up on Jay Carney a bit and write some harsh editorials here and there. But, in the end, they’ll all come home to the Democrats.

If I were Harry Reid, and I knew that, I’d probably do just what Reid’s doing now. Heck, the Senate hasn’t produced a budget for over eight hundred days!, and yet Reid slides. If he can slide on that, why can’t he slide on this? Answer: he can, because the MSM want to see him win. And Reid knows it.

Kudos to Speaker Boehner and the rest of the House GOP for showing up and doing a tough job.

runner12

You can take the big government, progressive Republicans and join the Dems and the Tea Party and sane Independents will reform the Republican party.

Problem solved.

runner12

I meant to say Independents, Conservatives, and sane Independents.

Finrod

I figure the only way currently-illegal drugs will ever be legalized is the tax revenue incentive. After all, we have taxes on alcohol and tobacco already.

Jack_Savage

Maybe it is time to state your case with scripture, or apologize and then be quiet.

And as for your other points, maybe we could try to be “principled” instead of “tactical”. See: Ronald Reagan /Soviet Union.

Aaron Gardner

That said, it always makes me laugh when someone takes a libertarian position on legalization but attempts to sell it to others as a means of funding the federal leviathan in the process.

It is a matter of conflicting interest that is fun to point out.

logan316

The tea party will have to start the new party. You guys are in the minority. The tea party is a faction within the Republican party and after turning this victory into defeat the tea party will lose more power. Laura Ingraham is telling the tea party to take this deal, I guess she is not a real conservative too.

http://www.sheetanchor.org SheetAnchor

66% of the American public support CCB. Republicans just won a landslide election with a clear mandate to stop Obama and the Democrats from bankrupting this country; and all Republicans can do is raise the debt ceiling in exchange for no tax increase and $100 billion a year in spending cuts to kick the can down the road to bankruptcy. Think about it; this year?s deficit alone is $1.64 trillion! With leadership like that the Dems win every time ? even when they are losing!

Ausonius

Any primary challenger can easily find a string of Boehner’s broken promises:

Like this one!

“The man who could be the next House Speaker declared Wednesday he would kill health care reform before it “bankrupts” the country.

In a wide-ranging, hour-long meeting with the Enquirer editorial board, John Boehner said he intends to attempt to repeal or block funding for the health care legislation passed earlier this year.

“They’ll get not one dime from us. Not a dime. There is no fixing this,” said the West Chester Republican.”

My emphasis above.

See:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100908/NEWS0108/9090348/John-Boehner-ll-kill-health-care-law

Scope

Most libertarians I’ve read comments from abhor taxes, some to the point that there should be none. Much to funny that they are willing to pay the hel! out in taxes to get their weed, and more, legalized. Isn’t there some kind of irony, or two sides of the mouth going on there?

acat

…there’s no such thing as a big-government conservative or a big-government libertarian ?

Good.

I did not intend to imply that you believed such beasts exist, although the ongoing anti-libertarian slant (and periodic slag-fests) do make me wonder how you see libertarians.

No, not paulistines nor libertines, a actual libertarians, in the Goldwater tradition…

Mew

Aaron Gardner

Hence the request not to be trolled on the subject.

Scope

and ignore the accusations that have been made against Jim Jordan. Of course Boehner is going to talk nice about Jordan, saying they are friends and allies. The takeaway in his statement is that they don’t agree on strategy. What is this whole entire debt ceiling debate about if not about strategy? Boehner, not so much.

acat

Mew

http://www.sheetanchor.org SheetAnchor

The only reason the Republicans are in control in the US House; and increased their numbers in the Senate by 7 Senators, is because of the Tea Party; and now, after all of the hard work to elect candidates, the Tea Party is supposed to sit down; be quiet, and accept business as usual. Not! What establshment Republicans should be is grateful, and encouraging the Tea Party to continue striving to stop Obama; and they can at least stand firm on the mandate they were given to stop President Obama from fundamentally changing this country into one we will not recognize before it is too late. Use every tool at your disposal to stop him now.

We will send reinforcements to Congress and to the White House in November of next year. But we expect you to do your job that we elected you to do – and to do it now! If you don’t we will primary Republicans who have not performed as advertised. We expect you to fight at least as hard as we worked to elect you. And honestly, do you really think we are the least bit impressed with names, and appeals to authority. We can see where all of these authorities have led us – practically over the financial and economic clift. And when going gets tough, what do they do? Surrender every time. They wouldn’t even have anything to talk about but for the Tea Party today. The country would already be history.

runner12

It was the Tea Party who brought the big wins in 2010. Win or lose, we are here to stay. While we may not garner establishment support, out here on Main Street the Independents are flocking to us in droves. Read the polls, most Americans support the CCB position.

Face it, the establishment elites are losing and we are winning. People are tired of the dishonesty, massive spending, and massive growth in government and they are speaking out.

As for Laura Ingraham, I think she is good on social issues but not so much on fiscal. By the same token, Red State, FreedomWorks, Heritage, Hannity, Limbaugh, Sen. Rand Paul….shall I go on…have all come out against the Boehner plan. That is NOT a minority faction.

logan316

It can be argued that because of the tea party we won only 7 seats in the Senate it should have been 9. It was a wave election and the victory should have been bigger. The tea party helped change the narrative in Washington, this is without argument. We have won this battle! Take this victory and move forward to the next battle, Blow this now and Obama becomes relevant again.

logan316

We tend to believe in the same thing, but the faction that says no compromise, they are the minority. his deal falls through and the Democrats gain the advantage people will remember who caused it.

runner12

but you did not say that people who did not want compromise where in the minority, you said the Tea Party. Then you said that the Tea Party should leave the party.

I might also ask how you can say that the groups and individuals I listed who are against the Boehner plan and what you call compromise ( CCB was a compromise) are a minority?

Sorry, you cannot spew out Leftist talking points regarding the Tea Party and then say we believe in the same thing.

gekster

And another one to blame a couple of lost seats, while ignoreing the sweep that happened, for the spinelessness of our “conservative” leaders.
What, this is about the 20th who have made that claim during this debate.

logan316

I’m not spewing leftist talking points, but since you think so I shall not continue. I was member of the tea party in 2010. I’m not now and I am not alone. Do you remember when the tea party started? It prided itself on including diverse people. Now listen to you;” leftist talking points.” My god, I disagree and you resort to that. You win this battle it is not worth it, The tea party may even win the battle tonight but I fear the war will go to Obama..

runner12

It is like they are crawling out of the woodwork. The funniest part about it is that they are being so clever and that no one here will pick up on it.

Kyle-MI

They won the House, decently but not in a landslide. They did not win control of the Senate. The Presidency was not even on the ballot. Fortunately and unfortunately our nation’s political power does not turn on a dime. That is by design. Most of the time it is good. This year it stinks.

logan316

Because there is something to the argument. The win could have been bigger.

runner12

attacked. You told the Tea Party to get out of the Republican party, that they were a minority. And you dare criticize me for being intolerant and not being for diverse opinions?

I never told you to get out of the party, I really did not even critique your position much. I mainly defended the Tea Party against your malicious attacks.
Please don’t play the false martyr, your words above speak to how attacking you were. My words were tame in comparison.

Just out of curiousity which Tea Party were you a part of and why did you leave?

Aaron Gardner

Which state? Provide some details about why you left.

gekster

More Democrats were thrown out, and more Republicans were elected across the whole US.

gekster

it would have been a whole lot less.
Regular Americans finally paying attention,
getting involved, doing something,
and you can’t see the good.
All you can see is a couple of lost seats.
Glass half empty, I’m guessing.

rpopp23

The point here isn’t whether I think Boehner has the right strategy, or if I think Jordan is getting a fair shake. I was merely responding to Erick’s post with Boehner’s response saying he wasn’t behind this. I believe him. As Erick posted somewhere else today, let’s try to keep this civil. Boehner is not the enemy. Whether you agree with his bill or not, he is still one of us, and votes the way we’d like most of the time. We can disagree (strongly) with this bill and even wish for a different leader – but I think we say he isn’t behind this Jordan story and get back to the debt ceiling business.

And once this bill is decided either way, there is still a big fight with the Dems to face.

logan316

“You can take the big government, progressive Republicans and join the Dems and the Tea Party and sane Independents will reform the Republican party.”

That is not telling me to leave the party? I was member here in New Jersey. I still beleive in the ideas I just also beleive you get there through steps. Not all or nothing right away.

Please tell me what you think was my attack quote it.

rpopp23

Kevin McCarthy would be next in line – he is wildly popular among the House Repubs. But he is a CA moderate that makes Boehner look like Jesse Helms.

Aaron Gardner

Is that correct?

logan316

They are not big groups and many are “uncompromising,” Chris Christie knows you have to compromise and he knows how to take a victory when he gets it. I’m proud to have worked on his campaign and look forward to taking back our state legislature

logan316

my answer below.

Aaron Gardner

I get that, but don’t go thinking that every Tea Party person is like Lonegan. We aren’t.

Hate you local Tea Party group all you want, but don’t project their faults on the greater national movement.

littlehouse18

At this point in time he could probably get a lot of coverage. Then instead of addressing the Boehner/Jordan issue, he lays out the true fiscal situation with visuals for the public to fully understand – vis a vis debt, deficits, projected debt and deficits, and the mechanics and effectiveness of the proposed plans.

Just wishing.

smagar

As I said with Michael Barone upthread—we need two elections to put conservatism into power. One down, one to go.

Obama and Reid won’t making meaningful change because they don’t have to. They have all the power they need to resist change, and an MSM that will spin stories for them.

Only a big win in 2012 will do that.

logan316

But in this case I feel by defeating the Boehner plan you are giving the Democrats more leverage and hurting our position. The national tea party is not taking the victory they earned and moving forward. This is making them look unreasonable. They are chasing away the people who helped form the coalition that caused the landslide in 2010. I want to win in 2012, I want to win big, take the Senate, the White House and then big things can be done.

smagar

The Democrats hold the most secure ground here. They have the White House, the Senate and an MSM for supporting artillery. The president can use the bully pulpit to launch countless stories of woe if we reach default, which the MSM will report in an, ahem, balanced manner. (The hysteria will be above the fold, the balanced part of the story will be on page A26 underneath the Crazy Eddie ads).

Now, we can wave banners and charge into Hancock’s well-aimed artillery. Or, we can wait to fight on ground that’s better for us.

gekster

we will get a larger Tea Party from it for the next election.

Aaron Gardner

The caucus was united until Boehner made a deal undercutting what the caucus had already passed.

Boehner is the one who drove a wedge into his own caucus.

logan316

Is knowing when to do the doable. Chris Christie understands that here in Jersey, he knew when to deal. CCB was and is dead, Now if you want to say Mc connell undercut everyone with his Senate plan I will agree completely. But Boehner is trying to keep the pressure on the Democrats, a deal has to be made, no matter what anybody wants. Well, no vote tonight. We will see what happens tomorrow

http://www.sheetanchor.org SheetAnchor

Obama is waging war now, and takes no prisoners. The battle has finally been engaged as of last November. The Democrats have a winning hand, as long as the Republicans are afraid of going to the mat. When Obama told Cantor last week, “Eric, don’t call my bluff. I’ll go to the American people on this!” Well Cantor should have told him to his face, “Mr. President; We are the American People, and so will we.”

Why is it that Republicans refuse to stand up against Democrats? Why are they so afraid? Oh, how could I forget; the MSM; makes them shake in their boots. Even today, Carney tells the media, “Republicans are trying to kill Christmas!” Still waiting for the Republican response.

The Democrats relentlessly beat them, hammer them, and demean them; every single day; and Republicans say nothing – so the Dems just keep attacking in the public forum, convincing ignorant citizens that Republicans are evil. Right now, where is Romney the so-called frontrunner? Said anything lately? This is what I mean about establishment Republicans always quietly walking away from the fight; looking to fight another day – which never comes!

So, I am with Erick. Republicans always look for ways to compromise – which always means fold. You see Obama compromising? When Obama says “Bipartison” he means the Dems get their way. Republicans being outfoxed by a communitiy organizer from Chicago who never ran anything in his life. You gotta be kiddin’ me. See the problem with establishment Republicans is that they always believe in their own minds, that they are at a disadvantage- even when they are in the majority. They couldn’ t even make the Bush tax cuts permanent when they had the majority. They couldn’t confirm Bush’s judiicial appointments when they had the majority – because the Dems were just outraged.

Democrats always believe they have the advantage, whether they have the majority or not. They always dare Republicans, and keep doing so, because their experience shows that Republicans will fold in the end. You have to be willing to walk away from the table to win; and it’s past time Republicans stopped being weak; stopped attacking their own, and start going on the offensive against the Dems before its too late and this country is destroyed.

runner12

that the Republicans would leave the Tea Party. The ” you” was a general term for those, like yourself, who seem to want the Tea Party out of the GOP. I was simply providing a road map to use.

As for your attacks, there were so many, but to name one: “Tea Party you go your way and we will go ours,” ” the Tea Party will lose more power,” shall I go on?

Your call for agreeing to disagree is in stark contrast to the rhetoric you typed above.

http://www.sheetanchor.org SheetAnchor

reflects about half of the Republican voters now. Dems at 40% and Reps split at 22/21 between Reps and Tea Party people.

http://www.sheetanchor.org SheetAnchor

United we stand.

http://www.sheetanchor.org SheetAnchor

tactical maneuvering, that can have a strategic impact.

Aaron Gardner

P.S. Christie set a goal and stuck to it despite all the slings and arrows that came his way. Boehner hasn’t shown that level of commitment at all.

logan316

If you think that was an attack stay out of Jersey. I stand by those statements, If the tea party screw up this debt ceiling battle they will lose power. That is not an attack, that is a prediction. I’ll try to be more gentle in the future. Have a good night

logan316

think Boehner knew what Mc connell was going to do. I was watching him on a live interview when the Mc connell plan was released, he did not know and was not happy. Christie did not get everything he wanted either he knew when to take his victory.

runner12

Watching you double down and then backtrack, and then come back around and contradict yourself is amusing.

As for New Jersey, with all due respect, we in the heartland have toughness and grit enough for the entire East Coast combined.

logan316

Backtracking from anything. I also do not see were I attacked anyone. I call it as I see it. You don’t like it fine. We will see how it all plays out. As said, I want Republican control of all branches in 2012. Show me where I contradicted myself.

http://www.sheetanchor.org SheetAnchor

CCB and BBA, and walk away and stand firm. The Dems cannot do anything without the House. Yes, they will have to take it to the briink, but they will win this fight by doing so. If not, they lose. The Dems do not believe they have the nerve, and this is what they always rest on. The Republicans need to show them that they will not move.

The House Republicans really blew it! All they had to do was stand firm on CCB. Like Trump says, when you negotiate you have to walk away from the table to win. Boehner should have walked away after CCB. And went out and explained the situation to the American people who are behind CCB by 66%.

He gave up all the leverage by signaling to the Dems he would never walk away from the table. When your opponent knows you will not walk away from the table, you lose. You cannot negotiate out of fear.

Now they may be able to recover by sending CCB back to the Senate, and walking away.

avgjo

As far as Jefferson, that’s a tough one. I understand that national security was a concern; also the great resources were tempting. I guess the difference is that the Louisiana Purchase clearly benefited the country. But it did undermiine many of the Constitutional and Jeffersonian principles. This vote clearly hurts the country; if that stupid commission weren’t on it (which undermines Congress’ authority), I probably wouldn’t be half as ardently opposed.

As far as your last statement; yes. But these guys aren’t chess players. We need to find a Jose Capablanca. And sorry to say, J.B. is not it.

JX12

Me too.

Sorry – I just can’t bring myself to write it with a lower case “C.” Can’t overcome my inclination to view it as a proper noun.

Finrod

I see it as more of an answer. Generally when legalization is brought up, after types like you get through doing their Chicken Little “THE SKY IS FALLING!” impersonation and calm down a bit, I ask them to put a dollar value on the social costs that they think that legalization will cause– additional rehab clinics, what have you. Then I say “ok, we’ll set the tax on them so that we’re collecting more in tax than the cost of legalization.” Kind of like we already do with alcohol and tobacco, two drugs that anti-drug types are fine with for some reason.

Then they never seem to have any kind of response after that other than “Drugs are bad, m’kay”. Which never surprises me; people that are rabidly against drug legalization usually run out of rational arguments pretty quickly.

runner12

then backed down a little, saying that we ” agreed” on many things. Then when called to the carpet regarding your attacks you a). Feigned ignorance, then b). Doubled-down

Do I really have to explain this to you?

But in the spirit of fairness, I will you if you see the Tea Party contemptuously (as some of your above sentences indicate) or do you see them as an ally?

RS

EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Crossing a Line and Overreaching

COMMENTS

ALL

COMMENTS

POPULAR

#RSRH

PICK YOUR STATE & GET LOCAL