« BACK  |  PRINT

RS

EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Creationism and Smart People Gone Stupid #EERS

I’m not sure when so many smart people became so stupid, but suddenly as a Christian who believes in creation, Kathleen Parker, Bill Keller, Ryan Lizza, and others want me to know I think the world was created 6500 years ago, not the 4.5 billion or so years ago I’ve always thought.

What is making so many smart people so stupid.

We’ll get into that tonight and revisit some broken windows. The show starts at 7:05 p.m. ET.

You can listen live at http://wsbradio.com and call in at 1-800-WSB-TALK.

Consider this an open thread.

COMMENTS

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    whether Christian or not, whether it be with respect to climate, war and peace, economic choices etc

  • dmacleo

    pretty sure its not 24 of my hours…

  • Bill S
  • westcoastpatriette

    that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    2 Peter 3:8

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    So what?

  • d_lamar

    nt

  • acat

    I don’t agree with your beliefs. I respect your right to hold them.

    I also don’t see where your beliefs nor Ericks’ nor mine are provable, so .. I don’t see why they’re particularly germaine to elections, other than to let snobs who insist that their unprovable is the correct one feel better about themselves.

    Mew

  • Bill S

    one’s beliefs on either creation or evolution would qualify or disqualify them for any public office. I suppose if you’re an evolutionary biologist, it might be helpful to believe in evolution, but beyond that – I do not believe one’s beliefs in this area inhibit their ability to function in the workplace or in politics.

    But it does give the Left something to froth at the mouth about….

  • http://billbotex.blogspot.com billbotex

    I am a scientist, and without exception every time I have had a discussion with another scientist who thought that he/she was NOT a Christian, the ultimate cause was because of their complete confidence in Science, coupled with their lack of knowledge in some area of Science.

    acat, the reason you believe religion is unprovable is because you have never given serious thought to what actual, undeniable, objective, scientific method proof would be for you? If you can’t answer that question for yourself, you will always think religion is unprovable. I can assure you that God/religion IS ABSOLUTELY provable in that way.

    See my conservative (not religious-religious topics are best discussed elsewhere), blog: http://www.billbotex.blogspot.com

  • williamjameson

    remember their fictional facts. It never ceases to amaze me how many read liberal garbage then repeat it as fact. Proof liberal dummies use smart tactics to con people into believing anything without questioning the source let alone the history of the world.

  • DonPMitchell

    Evolution is a not a problem for many christians, but just for a very specific literal interpretation of the bible. Many religious people believe that the universe is a mechanism set into motion by god, and evolution is one of many awesome consequences of how the universe works.

  • Tbone

    all cats go to Hell. :-)

  • Tbone

    mosquito bites wouldn’t itch.

  • westcoastpatriette

    That was cold.

  • acat

    In case you get there first, save me a seat near the bar.

    Mew

  • acat

    It’s the feeling of “something’s on me” that starts most folks slapping at skeeters, the histamine reaction to the anticoagulant takes a while to show up.

    Sorry, just had to scratch that one.

    Mew

  • http://www.MuskogeePolitico.com jamisonfaught

    Was Christ in the grave for three thourand years, instead of three days?

    Was Jonah in the fish’s belly for three thousand years?

    Were the Israelites actually in the wilderness for 14,600 years, instead of 40 years?

    Sorry, but the only correct interpretation on Creation is literal, 24-hour days.

  • http://www.MuskogeePolitico.com jamisonfaught

    Argh – this text is so small I missed the misspellings. “Thourand” should be thousand, “on” should be “of”.

  • Rhampton

    Regardless of how some in the media want to present Republicans and Tea Partiers, there is a fundamental conflict between Science and Faith. Furthermore, the (Young Earth) Creationists are quite vocal that the findings of Science should not be respected if it conflicts with a literal interpretation of the Bible. While the one third of the public hold such beliefs, among Republicans that jumps to 52% (Gallup poll. 12-7-2010)

    “each time the scientific establishment issues a consensus understanding of what is found in nature, should Christians rethink their views on other issues of biblical importance, such as the virgin birth or Christ?s resurrection from the dead? Are we going to take our cosmology or the redemptive historical understanding of Scripture and submit these to interrogation by what we are told are the assured results of modern science? Doing so will certainly lead to disaster, to a head-on collision that should compel Christians to understand just what is at stake theologically and to be prepared to give biblically-sound answers.”
    - R. Albert Mohler, Jr., Ph.D.
    Why Does the Universe Look So Old? – The Theological Costs of Old-Earth Thinking

    Good, bad, or otherwise it’s a view held by a substantial number of Republican voters, and it does have important implications:

    “Are science and Christianity friends? The answer to that is an emphatic yes, for any true science will be perfectly compatible with the truths we know by God?s revelation. But this science is not naturalistic, while modern science usually is. Too many evangelicals try to find middle ground, only to end up arguing for positions that combine theological surrender with scientific na?vet?. As Jerry Coyne makes very clear, there really is no middle ground.”
    - R. Albert Mohler, Jr., Ph.D.
    Science and Religion Aren?t Friends?

  • sdsundevil

    especially the social sciences since they believe everyone is exactly the same. This can be disproved genetically, but they conveniently ignore that and shut down discussions on the subject by labeling people as racist or sexist if the topic is brought up.

    Science has always been resistant to differing opinions. It’s like anything else – once enough people have a stake in a particular theory, it becomes a gravy train that people rely on for funding, etc. Alas, something else will come along to take its place and then the remaining folks can feel free to publish without fear of retribution.

  • jb13

    Sooner rather than later, I’d like someone to ask these God-haters to explain what they actually mean by their question, and ask them to trace the logical conclusions of their implications.

    For instance, most of us here on this site would agree with the following statement: Those who believe that political speech should be censored are unAmerican, and should be considered unfit to hold public office.

    Or alternatively, those who profess to believe that trees are akin to human beings and should be afforded rights akin to those granted to human beings, are mentally ill (or at least disturbed) and should be considered unfit to hold public office.

    Therefore, when attacking Christians who actually believe what is in that thar’ holy book of theirs, instead of just paying it lip service, are you asserting:
    a) that they are mentally ill and in need of psychiatric care? or
    b) that they are unfit to hold public office, because they suffer from powerful delusions that do not fit with the demands of governing in a “real world?” or
    c) both of the above?

    Please, please, someone (ahem, cough, Erick) ask this question to some random “smarter than thou” leftist next time the situation arises. It’s time to challenge this dangerous anti-religion and the free exercise thereof garbage.

  • Jack_Savage

    …because the question “Do you believe in evolution?” is really three questions in one, and should be clarified then answered by any conservative as such.

    The first question should be, “How do you believe life originated on earth?”. I happen to believe that God created the heavens and the earth and all that dwell here. Liberals believe that a lightning strike hit some primordial ooze and somehow, a single cell life form was created which evolved into all the species you see today. Tell me again which requires more faith? Of course, if you believe that earth was seeded with humans by the Star People, that is something we can all agree on.

    The second question is, “Do you believe that there is evolution within a species?”, Of course I do. I believe, for instance, that humans 100 years ago are shorter than they are today. We have evolved. I believe Darwin’s finch beaks evolved. Etc, etc, ad nauseum. Yes, certainly I believe in that sort of evolution.

    The third question is, “Do you believe that one species can evolve into another?”. There is scant evidence suggesting that it can. I don’t believe spiders can evolve into mice, or dolphins into hippos, or apes into humans. The fossil evidence is virtually non-existent, despite the bone fragments that scientists trot out as proof.

    It sickens me that conservatives constantly play defense on this, particularly on origin of life, which is the central issue. It takes far more faith to believe that this is all just an accident, that the perfect position of the earth relative to the sun is just really good luck , that we came from nothing and are going nowhere, and that love and hope and happiness are just the effects of evolutionary psychology, and that science explains everything. Again, tell me how much faith THAT takes.

    Let the left defend that stance for once, and see how well they do.

  • ragstoriches

    NT

  • davidb99

    the reality is that as lowly mortals we don’t really know why the Bible seems to be at odds with science. There are some things about God and spirituality that we are just not meant to understand and that’s just fine with me.

    I think that when people get bogged down arguing about the age of the earth and “creation science” they totally miss the point of Christianity and salvation.

  • westcoastpatriette

    I wasn’t trying to imply that God created everything in six thousand years–I only quoted a scripture to answer dmacleo’s question.

    So just what might that scripture mean? (2 Peter 3:8)

  • snowshooze

    At face value, standing aside of creation, Jesus, and all else…
    I believe so. How long is a day to God?
    That is well beyond me. I have big days, and small ones.
    I could care less what the clock watchers think.

  • oblio

    How old is the Earth/Creation, or do you believe in evolution?

    but rather

    Who is Christ?

  • SoFiMil

    Is there anyone on the left willing to go on the record and assert a yeah or nay to the above, and not dodge the question?

  • Tbone

    I already got a couple of smart guys running a tab. Think about it.

  • Tbone

    nt

  • Tbone

    put the next iteration of his children here on this planet, some Phd is going excavate a junk yard and tell people Peterbilts evolved from lawnmowers.

  • snowshooze

    And my mouth shut.

  • jerry39

    …and the internet and talk radio – go man made global warming theory.

    A reading of of the articles Eric referenced clears up the point he is making. Liberals assign beliefs to all Conservative Christians based on the most disputed beliefs among Christians. When Christian Republicans don’t have the sense to keep their mouths shut about their beliefs, Liberals pounce to exploit that division in the apparent minutiae and to remind the stupid Christians that they are stupid and un-electable when put up against the sensible Democrat who accepts all “settled science.”

    Since most Republican politicians are weak-kneed about their faith to begin with, they tend to profusely apologize for their beliefs and disassociate themselves with those beliefs.

    But the nice thing about 2012 is that we have the internet, we have fox-news, we have talk radio, and we have President Obama. If we had the scopes trial and President McCain, man made global warming would be settled science today. The issue isn’t the age of the earth, the issue is whether we were created by God or not. The fact is that more scientists believe God created the earth than any one of the big bang theories or its progeny. That issue is no more settled than man made global warming or homosexuality being genetic. If scientists don’t want skeptics, then they shouldn’t falsify data for political and personal gain.

    I am confident that when presented with a choice, American’s would vastly prefer a Christian who believes God is the creator, than a Christian who attends a church whose principle purpose seems to be to create hatred and disdain for America – but claims not to have paid enough attention to realize it.

    I can’t advise politicians to blame natural disasters on God’s wrath. I am certain it crosses all of our minds from time to time, but as it comes across (because it often is) as assuming, arrogant, and callous when applied to a particular tragedy, But even here – it is probably defensible to be considering God’s judgement when compared to Obama who views such tragedies merely as political opportunities.

    At least this election cycle, the only wrong answer to the question of being “too Christian” is profuse apology and denial.

  • westcoastpatriette

    .

  • CincoSolas_del_Bronx

    included calculating what fraction of the length of the living-room floor would suffice for a time-line of my life at the scale of 1 earth-diamter=1 earth-age, tackling (poorly) portraiture of Zinjanthropus and pals, and grinding (with brother and Dad) an 8-inch Newtonian which could not only, at 480x on a dry day, distinguish the color of parkas at the top of the Killington chairlift 13 crow-miles away, but, also with a wide-field Erkel at 80x, pierce through the eons back to the dawn of time…

    I also believe in a young universe.

    So what, indeed.

    (For the sake of the agog, I attribute the move partly to having grown up in a number of ways during the interval, including, but not limited to, having learned more about the astonishing degree to which Mr. Occam’s poor razor has been dulled in certain fields of inquiry. But I will not be drawn further on that here–our goal, after all, being to coalesce.)

  • Tbone

    Has anyone every seen Lady Gaga and Obama in the same room at the same time?

  • acat

    (cheshire grin)

  • pantera

    Uninformed people seem to not understand the Old Testament was written in Hebrew then translated into English. The words have different meanings.

    It should be called Intelligent Design to be more accurate.

    Get Dr. Hugh Ross and let’s have the design vs chance debate.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.

  • Menlo

    They are the same ones who claim it is unknown whether an unborn baby is a live human.

    It seems like most modern-day “biologists” don’t know what a human is. Despite the different subject matter, they are exactly the same as their elitist counterparts who teach and study “Constitutional law.”

    I can’t take such people seriously on anything.

  • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

    You weren’t supposed to figure out that Lady Gaga is actually a man. The gig’s up: Yes, Lady Gaga is 0bama.

  • avgjo

    In Hebrew, ‘today’ is ‘hayom’, literally ‘ the day’.
    ‘Hayom yom yafeh’ is Hebrew for ‘Today is a beautiful day’. Here, ‘yom’ is used identically to the English ‘day’. (I knew those Hebrew lessons would come in handy one day!)

    In the Psalm, it is written:

    For a thousand years in thy sight [are but] as yesterday when it is past, and [as] a watch in the night.

    Again, the word ‘yom’ is used. It is used sometimes to refer to a longer time period, but the context makes it clear. Otherwise, its main signification (perhaps even default signification) is a 24 hour period.

    Note the ‘in thy sight’. This is simile, to illustrate God’s majesty and eternity.

    In Peter, it is Greek, using ‘hemera’ as in Modern Greek ‘Kalimera sou’ ‘hello/ Good day’. Again, a ‘day’ as we use it.

    The passage from Peter:

    But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    If we tried to derive a formula from this, we’re in trouble. Clearly 1 day does not equal 1000 years. This statement makes sense only if we consider that God is not bound by time. He being an eternal being, omniscient, sees all and knows all as one. His perception of a day is as easy and complete as His perception of 1000 years. That’s the obvious sentiment behind this statement if we take it as it is written. Unfortunately, that’s not a popular practice concerning the Bible.

    As for the earth’s age, I don’t see the problem with YEC, or God’s creation day being a 24 hour period. He’s God. He can do what He wants. And I have heard plenty about the unreliability of radioactive dating going way back.

    God knows, literally.

  • avgjo

    we are given the definition of ‘day’:

    And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

    And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    Note the very last sentence.

  • westcoastpatriette

    With regard to the scripture in Peter, however, I think there may be more significance than you may know.

    The word “yom” and or “day” are interchangeable and sometimes are referencing prophetic time clocks in a literal sense.

    The millenium, for example, the thousand year reign of Christ, is sometimes referred to as “the day of the Lord.” So I think Peter was giving a clue to interpret scriptural timelines in the verse that you quoted.

  • Menlo

    Moses wrote the account. I think precisely how it was revealed to him would make a difference. Compared to today, any language would have been quite limiting in terms of what one could communicate.

    Even for us humans, the concept of a day is not so simple if you account for factors such as distance from the sun and time dilation.

  • Return to Revolution

    The left flaunts evolution as an all-encompassing science but it is not. It is a hypothesis, and one (as you illustrated very well) with a lot of holes in it. Evolution is wholly untestable, can predict nothing, and there is not a single technology that exploits an evolutionary principle (if there even is such a thing).

    In any other discipline, such a hypothesis would not be regarded as a very good one and we’d be flooded with a mulititude of new and original ideas. Just compare with physics. It can make any number of concrete predictions and current theories and hypotheses are regularly tested and weeded out.

    There is a whole lot more respect for differing views on how the world was created here than if one dares question any aspect of evolution.

  • rightwingmom52

  • avgjo

    everyone has their perspective. In my own, I make certain assumptions:

    If the Bible is true, then the God in it exists.

    If the God in it exists, He is omnipotent.

    If He is omnipotent, He can reveal Himself with sufficient language to given an accurate account of whatever He wants. After all, He created language.

    (He revealed the Creation to Moses for a reason. I believe if it were beyond man to understand it, God wouldn’t have given such an explicit account of it.)

    I only list these to clarify my position. I am not trying to correct anyone.

  • avgjo

    of the Peter passage, or any other for that matter; I’m not qualified to do so anyway.

    Scripture is so deep because one statement has application in so many different contexts.

    I just wanted to point out what I believe is the pertinent meaning of that passage to the discussion at hand.

    Thanks for the nice insight into a deeper meaning of that scripture!

  • rightwingmom52

    From what I’ve read, you can only carbon date something that lived above ground like land animals and trees. It is based on the fact that once something that processed oxygen dies, the carbon in it begins to decay at some set rate.

    You cannot carbon date rocks, at least not without making some major assumptions that are not proven science. Rocks are dated using other techniques, based on other isotopes they contain. For example, scientists claim that it takes 5 billion years for a rubidium isotope in rock to degrade/change into strontium. I would love to hear a scientist explain to me how they can prove that how anything’s degradation can be measured over a 5 billion year period. All dating processes are suspect and have serious flaws in their assumptions.

    Apologetics Press is a Christian group out of Montgomery that has confronted this issue head on. Lots of material online and in their bookstore at apologeticspress.com that you might enjoy reading.

    Here is one of their articles on the age of the earth.

    here

  • westcoastpatriette

    at the beginning of the comment section and another writer challenged me as if there could be no other meaning for “day” than twenty-four hours.

    Glad to see you are more open to other meanings or interpretations.

  • rightwingmom52

    that there are those who seem to have no problem believing that an all powerful God could and did create our wonderful world and all therein, but then have trouble believing that he needed billions of years to do so instead of the 6 days he says.

    From apologeticspress again here

    Note that I’m trying to blockquote the text for the first time, so it may not work.

    “There is no question that God is not bound by time. He is the infinite, eternal, all-powerful, all-knowing Creator. The point, however, is not whether God is outside of time (cf. Psalm 90:2), but what God has revealed to us?both in Genesis 1 and in the rest of the Bible. God could have created the Universe in any way He so desired; in whatever order He wanted, and in whatever time frame He so chose. He could have created the world and everything in it in six hours, six minutes, six seconds, or in one millisecond?He is, after all, God Almighty (Genesis 17:1). But the question is not what God could have done; it is what He said He did. And He said that He created everything in six literal days. When God gave the Israelites the Ten Commandments, He stated:

    Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it (Exodus 20:8-11, emp. added).

    This Sabbath command can be understood properly only when the days of the week are considered regular 24-hour days.

    Based upon God?s use of words throughout Scripture which represent time periods that are much longer than a regular day (cf. Genesis 1:14; 2 Peter 3:8), we can rightly conclude that God could have revealed to man that this world was created over a vast period of time. [He could have used the Hebrew word d?r, which means long periods of time.] The fact is, however, God said He created this world and everything in it in six days (Genesis 1; Exodus 20:11; 31:17; cf. Psalm 33:9; 148:5; Mark 10:6).

    Question: What?s wrong with the way God said He did it?”

  • avgjo

    However, I have studied the languages and logic of the Classical World (Latin, Greek, Hebrew, some Egyptian and Ugaritic). I know that older languages were more synthetic, not only in their grammars, but in the signification of their terms. That’s a major reason why Ancient Philosophy is still so hotly debated today. The other meanings or interpretations, for me, fall into a rather narrow range. For instance, you will not see me take an allegorical approach to the Creation, Virgin Birth or Resurrection. I also happen to be one of those crazies who believes in Bible prophecy ; )

    Please take this comment as a mere disclaimer. I’m not perfect, but I take that admonition at the end of Revelation about adding to or taking from the Scriptures very seriously, so I want in no wise to appear that I am guilty of that.

  • rightwingmom52

    answered O’Reilly this way when asked if he was voting for Perry:

    “Yeah. It comes down to this. Do you prefer a President that doesn’t believe in evolution or do you prefer a President that doesn’t believe in Israel?”

  • westcoastpatriette

    but sometimes the more I study, the less I know–if you know what I mean.

    Scripture is something that I believe we will study for eternity as its depths cannot be measured. I have seen and heard too many brilliant scholars argue regarding bible interpretation and I think God must chuckle sometimes knowing we each have a small piece of the puzzle.

    We all see through a glass dimly compared to God’s vision.

  • avgjo

    everything you just wrote.

    It is interesting….

    Scripture is simple enough for a child to understand many of its profoundest teachings. But many of the best minds in history have been confounded by it.

    I remember someone said that playing Mozart’s music is too simple for a beginner, and too difficult for a professional. Maybe something along those lines applies to the Bible but to so much greater a degree…?

    Maybe that’s why Jesus said we need the faith of a little child….

    Good night and thank you for a pleasant discussion.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    is that federal judges quit imposing an established religion of Darwinism on local schools. It should be up to states and local school boards what is taught in local schools.

  • pttx333

    a good guy. And funny as the day is long. Have you heard about his Five Mexican Generals Plan for illegal immgration? Or that when he was running for Governor against Perry that he was going to give Willie Nelson some big VIP job – don’t remember which slot. He kept us laughing and still does. He certainly isn’t PC either. What a hoot!

  • lastgopinillinois

    That dinosaurs became extinct 65 million years ago.
    In the book of Job 40:15-24, Job describes a couple of dinosaurs. He called one a Behemoth and another a Leviathan.
    I always thought that his description of the Behemoth sounds exactly like a Stegasaurus.
    Job is believed to have lived around 2200BC.

  • Jack_Savage

    The answer to that question informs the answer to every other question ever asked.

  • BA Cyclone

    You said “Science has always been resistant to differing opinions.”

    I’ll take a slightly different tack. People are resistant to different opinions, and sadly some of them cannot separate that human condition from their science.

    There is no “vote” in the scientific method. The nature of science itself promotes the very idea of proving concepts by differing opinions shooting arrows at theorems.

    The truly sad state is that AGW types and their sycophants in the media have so deteriorated the very idea of “science” in general that the general public looks at science in general with a skeptic eye.

    Skepticism alone is not bad, but the problem is not with science itself, just some of the nutty practitioners — and people who don’t know better, but should.

  • BA Cyclone

    It’s one thing to see “evolution” as it were happen through the nature of a species.

    It quite another to take said observation, raise it to the nth power in reverse, and show that this must mean every living creature sprung from some goo and maybe some lightning bolts.

    I’ve said before that it takes more faith for an “evolutionist” to believe in their theory of origin than it does most “creationists.”

    Going forward, I am not sure why either matters, except in matters of a person’s actual religious faith.

  • dmacleo

    mans ego far surpasses his affinity for knowledge.
    seems sad that some think its easier to believe that out of nothing came something (seems at odds with the word nothing) than it is to believe in a creator.
    in todays world seems to me it takes a stronger mindset to believe in a creator as we are constantly barraged with ridicule for it.

    really, except for the timing, bible and evolution are not too far apart. I see no reason evolution can’t be the mechanism the creator (God) used.

  • dmacleo

    we all know it :)

  • acat

    I’m not exactly sure, the 2nd paragraph of your post is a tad unstructured.

    It’s not that I don’t think the religious or scientific viewpoints are “provable” or “unprovable”. If any were conclusively “provable” then they’d be taught in schools as proven, and this discussion wouldn’t be taking place. The existence of the discussion disproves the existince of the proof.

    I view young-earth, old-earth, humans-from-monkeys, space-alien-seeded-earth, riding-on-the-back-of-a-turtle, as all equally non-proven, non-provable, and therefore faith-based, and I am apathetic about what someone puts faith in, provided they are willing to recognize that it is, in fact, faith based, and they are honest about it. Obama, for instance, fails for me because his words say his faith is in one thing, but his actions say his faith is in something else.

    That’s what’s relevant to this web site; I don’t see any particular faith as superior, although I would look askance at space-alien-seeded believers, and have found that humans-from-monkeys folks tend to be much more thin-skinned about challenges to their beliefs – all their beliefs, not just humans-from-monkeys…. and this tendency makes them poor politicians.

    Mew

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    My young universe/earth belief is that God created the heavens and earth in six 24-hour days in an adult state, just as he created all of the plants, animals, and man as adults. These objects would appear to have a much longer age (e.g. carbon dating, etc.), so scientific dating of objects to be much older doesn’t really affect my belief. Occam’s razor, you know, as Cinco mentioned above. Sure, I can’t prove my belief anymore than anyone can theirs, it just makes the most sense to me, and doesn’t do damage to science or scripture.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    the worst! smile

  • aesthete

    The scientific method is a process, or a methodology — and one that is specifically designed to allow for change. *People* are the problem, not *science*.

  • aesthete

    they have trouble believing in that possibility, as that they don’t believe that that was the way that God chose to do it. Obviously, God is not bound by time — he created it! 24 hours is no less arbitrary a time period than billions of years. Most Christians who believe that the Earth is billions of years old note the stylistic similarities between the creation story in the first chapters of Genesis with Egyptian and Israelite non-creation related myths (whereas later parts of Genesis are written in a more straightforward fashion).

    Of course, none of this matters for the purposes of government: no one is demanding that we shut down biology departments using the force of government, and creationism/ID will never be taught in a classroom dedicated to biology, because it is not scientific. In reality, this dispute is best resolved through vouchers, where parents who have a problem with their children being taught evolution can subsidize the school of their choosing. Ignorance on economics, medicine or hard sciences on the left have resulted in many more real-world impingements on my liberty than anything that I have heard from creationists or IDers.

  • aesthete

    but I would also like to state that there is no inherent conflict between what one finds in the first chapters of Genesis, when applying cultural context, and what one finds in nature. I don’t begrudge Christians their view that what is described in Genesis is a literal recounting of how we were created. For myself, I find that the stylistic similarities between the creation story and the myths contemporary to Moses’ time and place lend credibility to the notion that the first part of Genesis was not intended to be a literal recount in the same way that other parts of the Deuterocannon were.

  • rightwingmom52

    As I said, my omnipotent God is just that. Knowing that God created man with a sense of humor, sometimes I wonder if he did certain things just to mess with the so-called intellectuals. Not really, but as pointed out in the article, Syncretism and the Age of the Earth, here

    If the Bible is correct that Satan is the ?god of this world? (2 Corinthians 4:4), and he is the father of lies (John 8:44), and he has blinded those who do not believe, what better way to ?blind? people to the truth than by using the respected ?scientific? avenues to propagate misinformation? In reality, many of those who suggest that the available scientific evidence points to a young Earth have not bypassed the scientific process. On the contrary, they have been excluded from the process by those who refuse to accept anything that allows for a straightforward reading of the Bible to be correct (see Butt, 2008). Credentialed scientists such as Henry Morris have critically assessed the scientific evidence and have demonstrated that it favors a young Earth (Whitcomb and Morris, 1961). Others such as John D. Morris and Don DeYoung have done the same (Morris, 1994; DeYoung, 2005). In fact, John Ashton edited the book, In Six Days, in which 50 credentialed scientists give their reasons for believing in a Creation that happened in six, literal days (Ashton, 2000). Additionally, Kurt P. Wise, who earned an M.A. and Ph.D. in paleontology from Harvard University while studying under Stephen Jay Gould, maintains that the scientific and biblical evidence converge to show that the Earth?s age is measured in thousands of years, not billions (2002).

  • rightwingmom52

    which has major implications on society, i.e., it’s led to acceptance of vertical evolution as well as a more humanistic belief system. Liberals and scientists have a vested interest in espousing the old earth theory because it supports the theory of evolution. As noted in the article, The Implications of Rejecting the Literal Days of Genesis 1, here

    Once a Christian accepts the idea of an ancient Earth, he automatically is placed in a position where he must abandon a literal interpretation of the biblical Creation account. He must reject the ?days? of Genesis one as literal twenty-four-hour days (or accept some other compromising concept such as the Gap Theory, Modified Gap Theory, etc.). Historically, in their frantic need to maintain their own credibility as a valid academic discipline, liberal theologians reevaluated their views of Genesis 1, and altered their assessments in order to accommodate the evolutionary framework. Consequently, the Creation account was stylized as a ?myth? or a ?hymn.? It is incredibly na?ve to think that Christians can use the term ?myth? to refer to Genesis 1, and there be no connection with liberal theology, evolution, and a devaluated view of the inspiration of that sacred chapter.

    and

    Generation X arrived, and has been genuine and honest enough to see and embrace the logical implications of the ancient Earth viewpoint. Consequently, they have adjusted their perceptions of the integrity of the biblical text. They recognize that since Genesis 1 may be interpreted rather loosely, so may the rest of the Bible and, for that matter, the whole of their parents? religion. Generated by a secular, humanistic society, and perpetuated by careless parents, the children have come to adopt a relativistic view of Christianity (if they have not abandoned it altogether). Alarmed, even panic-stricken, parents look on with wonderment at how their children can so easily throw overboard such ironclad certainties as God?s laws governing marriage, New Testament worship, and the plan of salvation. They apparently are blind to the fact that they, themselves, in league with humanistic philosophy, have sown the wind that yielded the whirlwind! … Once the biblical text is compromised, once the obvious meaning of Scripture is whitewashed in order to make its teaching more palatable and in step with secular culture, once Scripture is adjusted to fit human ideas rather than human ideas being adjusted to fit Scripture?the battle has been lost and Satan has won.

    There are over 450 well-researched, sourced articles on creation vs. evolution alone here dating from 1994 to present written by a group of Christian ministers, scientists, doctors, etc. that layout why old earth belief is inconsistent with the scriptures. If nothing else, think you would find the titles amusing. The argument for young earth is beautifully laid out here, and summarized as follows:

    We would like to suggest two courses of action for those who so willingly wed themselves to such extravagant misinterpretations of the Scripture: either (1) admit that the Bible and contemporary uniformitarian geology are at odds, reject biblical creation, and defend geological and biological evolution over billions of years; or (2) admit that the Bible and contemporary uniformitarian geology are at odds, study all the geological indications of the recent creation of the earth, accept the implications of Noah?s flood, and believe the recent creationism of the Bible. One must choose either the chronological scheme of uniformitarianism or the chronological scheme of the Bible, but the inconsistencies of this sort of interpretation of the Hebrew text for the purpose of harmonizing mutually exclusive and hopelessly contradictory positions can no longer be tolerated (1976, pp. 178-179, all emp. in orig. except for last sentence).

    I know this is long. Maybe a diary is in order.

  • aesthete

    I’ll shoot you a response.