« BACK  |  PRINT

RS

EDITOR OF REDSTATE

When Smart People Write Dumb Things

Whether you agree with Bill Keller of the New York Times or not, the man is not dumb. Whether you agree with Kathleen Parker or not, she is not dumb. Same with Ryan Lizza at the New Yorker. Yes, they may be center-left (or depending on who you talk to, center-right for Parker) and yes, Lizza is arguably more than center-left as is Keller. But these are not really dumb people.

Yet this past week they’ve really written some dumb stuff and it is not just a reflection on them, but a reflection on the entire American press corp and its assorted editorialists. In short, instead of lecturing candidates on how the candidates should shut up about religion, it is really obvious the American political press should shut the hell up when it comes to issues of heaven and, well, hell.

Ed Morrisey noted at Hot Air that the media really is ignorant about religion. More specifically, the media is ignorant about Christianity. Even supposedly professing Christians in the media are ignorant about Christianity, the religion a majority of Americans profess to believe in.

Via Ed Morrisey, I found this great column by Douglas Groothuis, a Professor of Philosophy at Denver Seminary. It is important because it points out the egregious errors in Ryan Lizza’s New Yorker hit job on Michele Bachmann.

Ryan Lizza’s piece is important because a great many reporters in America and editorialists read it and it shaped their world view and opinion on Michele Bachmann and evangelicals. That in turn has colored their reporting and editorial coverage.

Bill Keller of the New York Times admits Lizza’s article shaped his view.

But Lizza was fundamentally wrong on some basic fundamentals. It’s one thing to not like Francis Schaeffer. If you are Catholic, you probably won’t like him. But it is a whole different ball game to get Francis Schaeffer wrong. And Lizza either willfully or out of ignorance flat out misinterprets and misrepresents Francis Schaeffer — a very mainstream Protestant theologian who Lizza portrays as making up some fringy element in Christianity.

Here’s Groothius:

Lizza notes that Bachmann was influenced by the writings of Francis A. Schaeffer (1912-84), an evangelical minister, theologian, and philosopher. Schaeffer, along with the contemporary writer Nancy Pearcey and others, are “dominionists.” That is, they believe that “Christians alone are Biblically mandated to occupy secular institutions until Christ returns.” Worse yet, Schaeffer, in A Christian Manifesto (1981), supposedly “argued for the violent overthrow of the government if Roe vs. Wade isn’t reversed.” Lizza also writes of the influence of the prolific author Rousas John Rushdoony (1916-2001), who advocated “a pure Christian theocracy in which Old Testament law…would be instituted.” Bachman is allegedly thick as thieves with all these “exotic” subversives—and should be exposed as such.

Having read reams of books from all these authors (and every book by Schaeffer) over the last thirty-five years, as well as having taught many of these books at the graduate level, I assign Mr. Lizza the grade of “F.” Consider four reasons.

First, Rushdoony argued for a position he called reconstructionism (not theocracy), which would have made biblical law the civil law of the land. However, neither Rushdoony nor his followers desired to impose this system through violence or illegal activity, but rather see it come to fruition through a long-term change of minds and institutions.

Second, Rushdoony’s devotees make up but an infinitesimal fraction of Christian conservatives. The vast majority of those who have been influenced by certain aspects of Rushdoony’s writings emphatically reject his understanding of biblical law, as do I.

Third, the key Christian influences on Bachman are not Rushdoony and his followers, but Francis Schaeffer and Nancy Pearcey. Schaeffer referred to Rushdoony’s views on mandating biblical law as “insanity,” and never sanctioned any form of theocracy. (The name “Rushdoony” does not even appear in the index of Schaeffer’s five-volume collected works.) Schaeffer explicitly condemned theocracy in A Christian Manifesto (p. 120-1). Nor did he call for the violent overthrow of the government if Roe V. Wade were not overturned. Schaeffer rather explained various ways of resisting tyranny according to a Christian worldview and in light of church history. He saw “civil disobedience” (his phrase) as a last resort and did not stipulate any specific conditions under which it would be advisable in America. In fact, Schaeffer worried (on p. 126) that speaking of civil disobedience is “frightening because there are so many kooky people around.” Further, “anarchy is never appropriate.”

Then there is Bill Keller and his ridiculous quiz for the candidates that has nothing to do with national security, foreign policy, or domestic affairs and everything to do with their religious world view. But Keller admits that Lizza’s article helped shape his view. And if Lizza got things woefully wrong, Keller goes even further off the rails.

Mollie Hemmingway rightly points out that either Keller is engaged in satire or he is a deeply religious bigot — and ill informed at that. Keller is, by the way, fairly well known to have some sort of bias against Catholics or at least does his best to leave that impression with people.

Then, perhaps most egregiously for me because so many think she is one of us, Kathleen Parker weighs in on Perry and his religion. In her Washington Post column, Parker writes:

If we establish Earth’s age at 4.5 billion years, then we contradict the biblical view that God created the world just 6,500 years ago.

This one keeps coming back up with lefties who heard Perry say he believes in creationism. “OMG!!!! He thinks the world is like 6,000 years old,” is the typical reaction and one Kathleen Parker is having here.

What ignorance. That Parker would leap to this conclusion is, along with Lizza grossly misrepresenting a mainstream theologian as fringe and Keller conflating Catholic theology with various shades of protestant theology, either bigotry against actual believing Christians or just simply dumb. I hope I either misunderstand the point or it is just dumb.

I am a practicing, evangelical Christian. I believe in creation. All my friends in church believe in creationism. And to my knowledge, not a single one of them nor I believe the world is 6500 years old. In fact, I, like Kathleen Parker, was under the impression that the world is 4.5 billion years old. But according to Kathleen Parker, if I believe in creationism, i must think the world started 6500 years ago despite what I actually believe. Nevermind that in Genesis the sun and moon weren’t even created until the third or forth day so how could anyone even possibly say how long a day and a night were the first few days, let alone how even biblical literalists such as myself and others recognize days could very well have been phases and not 24 hour calendar days.

Oh, and it is not just me and my church anecdote. The data backs it up. Polling on the subject is horrible if only because the topic is both extremely complicated to ask about and very nuanced, but a Gallup survey in 2010 found that more than 78% of Americans believe in a creator playing an active role in creation. Roughly 40% of Americans believed in 2010 that God created man in his image in the past 10,000 years in a form that largely has not changed — Gallup did not poll to see if these people actually believe the world was created in the last 10,000 years too. 38% believe God guided the process over time. Included in that latter subset are 49% of people with post graduate degrees claiming God played a role.

But somehow, when Perry or any other Christian politician says he believes in “creation”, Kathleen Parker and a host of other editorialists and reporters think he means the whole world was created in the past 6500 or so years.

These examples are, at best, deeply, deeply ignorant of Christianity and have taken atheist formed stereotypes of Christianity and treated them as mainstream depictions of evangelicals. These are complex questions for which even within Christianity there is no settled answer. Labeling the whole of the Christians who actually believe their scripture as some group of fringe nuts is rather vile and we could never expect reporters and editorialists to do the same of other mainstream religions.

In fact, were any Christian to raise similar points about Islam, the media would immediately call them bigots — dare I say despite the Christians having a more thorough understanding of Islam than the same members of press willfully bashing Christians and painting Christians as bigots if they engage in discussions on Islam.

In Ed Morrisey’s great piece on this subject, he quotes from Rick Perry’s book Fed Up!.

Let’s be clear: I don’t believe government, which taxes people regardless of their faith, should espouse a specific faith. I also don’t think we should allow a small minority of atheists to sanitize our civil dialogue on religious references.

What’s sad is the American press corp at the national level is largely devoid of practicing Christians and these largely secular, if not out and out atheist, reporters are attempting to write about and cover a religion most Americans profess to believe in and they write about it with either ignorance or outright contempt.

It’s not the politicians who should stop talking about religion. It is the American press corps who should shut up.

COMMENTS

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …focused on dichotomy when Keller didn’t cover Jeremiah Wright.

    It’s all part of Progressive Hypocrisy, so sad.

  • http://wingright.org bnuckols

    Excellent job on clarifying..

  • SirGladiator

    It’s so profoundly true, as well as highly obvious, that most of the liberal media is either ignorant of, or outright hostile to (or both), Christianity. Ignorance is a very common trait among bigots, whether you’re talking about people who don’t like black people, Jewish people, Christians, etc. these aren’t folks who are extremely knowledgable about the people they hate, these are ignorant people who hate and/or fear what they don’t know and don’t understand.

    Certainly in the case of the far-left media they have multiple reasons to hate Christians like us, because we stand up for what is right while they stand for what is wrong, and they hate being reminded of that. They want to believe that murdering children, sexual immorality, stealing from certain people to give to others, etc. etc. etc. is all just fine and dandy, they hate that there are people who stand for what is true and just and won’t just let them shove their evil agenda down America’s throat.

    Certainly the anti-Christian bigotry of the liberal media is nothing new, but thank you for pointing it out so powerfully and effectively. Hopefully thanks to the efforts of great leaders like yourself, we can at least get some of them to educate themselves, and maybe in the end a few more souls will be saved in the process. Now that’s a possibility we can all celebrate!

  • dajeeps

    As I was reading this post. I would argue that even if one believes that the earth is only 6k yrs old, it is of little consequence to the every day problems of the country verses the kind of hate and venom “dear leader” sat and listened to, and took his wife and kids to listen to, for the better part of 20 years.

    If they really want Obama to be reelected, they should shut up about it lest we revisit and rehash the damning religious evidence against him and compare to, say, some of the stuff his attorney general has been doing.

  • vidyohs

    The phenomenon of a leftist being intelligent yet still devoutly believing in socialism or communism can not be explained in any other way then to recognize that the individual has a break or tear in the brain that prohibits their brain from working logically on social issues.

    There is no such animal as a socialist intellectual. An individual using his brain intellectually has to run from socialism as total idiocy. A leftist does not think on social issues, they emote on social issues.

  • evas

    Smart does not necessarily mean well-informed. Nor well- educated.

  • charlesmartel

    …you give these incredibly ignorant, incurious, bigoted people so much credit for being smart. They wouldn’t do the same for you, or me, or any conservative.

  • Rick_Caird

    When this comes up, I keep trying to point out there is no conflict between the idea of creation and the idea of evolution. First, those who claim there is a conflict usually cite their debunked belief that a belief in creation also implies a belief in a 6500 year old world, but there is no necessary relationship between the two,

    Second, those same people usually believe evolution specifies the creation of life, but it does not. Sure, there are theories such as lightening in the primordial ooze, but that is pure faith, neither fact nor fancy.

  • ihateliberals

    There is a difference between educated people and Smart people. I believe the people Erick was referring to are educated people they are far from being Smart. Smart is what you do with the education that you receive. These people have squandered their education by doing and saying Dumb things.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    There is the one type who just does not believe in the supernatural but has no particular antipathy to religious people.

    There is the second type who hates religious people in general and usually Christianity in particular and never fails to ridicule, rail, and proselytize their own beliefs.

    Then there is the third type who is not a deep thinker at all and only uses the arguments of the second type to justify their own atheism, which is based upon a libertine desire to engage in various immoral behaviors but without having to feel guilty or to be judged by others

    They are usually even nastier than the third type..

  • thomasmitchel

    The distinction among those of us who believe in creationism is typically drawn between young earth and old earth creationists. I am a young earth creationist, believing that God created the cosmos in six literal days between 7000 and 10,000 years ago. For those of you who want to give it fair consideration there is a site called Answers in Genesis that contains a wealth of articles and data, some of it highly technical from a scientific perspective. We frankly believe that the claims of Christ and his redeeming work make little sense without a proper understanding of the literal fall of Adam and thereby the introduction of death into the world.

  • rickdeckard

    The progressives are losing the fiscal argument on a scale not seen since FDR took the White House. Getting moderates to fear for their personal freedoms and beliefs at the hands of apocalyptic, sexually repressed, power-driven, greedy, bigoted, ignorant Christian fundamentalists is the only option they have left. It’s the subtle and nuanced approach.

    It didn’t work in 1980. It won’t work next year either.

  • throwback59

    “Gore-ism” taught him that man could take the earths temperature and make it hotter.

  • handyfiremedic

    This part is perfect:

    “Nevermind that in Genesis the sun and moon weren?t even created until the third or fourth day so how could anyone even possibly say how long a day and a night were the first few days, let alone how even biblical literalists such as myself and others recognize days could very well have been phases and not 24 hour calendar days.”

    …and I love the rest too.

    It’s amazing how egotistical the left is to believe in the absolutism of “human knowledge”. The one thing absolute about human knowledge (regardless of any belief system) is it is flawed.

  • wtbrewer

    Stupefying ideologies can stupefy (make dumb) even the smartest of people.

    billb
    http://historeo.com

  • brojohn2

    I too believe that God created in 7 literal days, however, I also realize that we have no idea how long a time it was between the first man and woman being placed in the garden, and sin entering the world through man wanting to be like God. In other words we don’t know how long Adam and Eve were procreating in that garden, without the trials of childbirth. Because God instituted painful child birth after the sin as he was sending them out into the world. Remember that Cain married a women from a city, there was a complete civilization working in the world. So can we agree that man’s knowledge may just be limited by man’s finite brain? In other words can’t we realize that we were not there when it all transpired and therefore we will just have to wait for the “rest of the story”?

  • johnt

    For about the thousandth time, American Christians are the enemy. Keller’s nasty recent remarks didn’t even hint at islam or other faiths.
    Why should he disdain islam?, after all that religion is at war with us, and just about everybody else for 1400 years. This bigotry is true of our national semi-literates, our press, at large.

  • nepanyrush

    One of the best explanations I have seen of what creationism means:

    http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Creationism

    Also, this online encyclopedia has a good overview of evolution that the Republican candidates could use to battle the ridiculous “raise your hand if you believe in evolution” debate questions that always seem to be aimed at the GOP candidates:

    http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Evolution

  • rattlerjake

    One problem is the basic christian train of thought, ["Francis Schaeffer explained various ways of resisting tyranny according to a Christian worldview and in light of church history. He saw ?civil disobedience? (his phrase) as a last resort and did not stipulate any specific conditions under which it would be advisable in America. In fact, Schaeffer worried that speaking of civil disobedience is ?frightening because there are so many kooky people around.? Further, ?anarchy is never appropriate.?] The Christians right is too pacifistic when it comes to liberal control, they think God will fix everything. Second problem is how so many true Christians believe anyone who professes to be one also. Obuthead is a perfect example.

  • nepanyrush

    http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Intelligent_design

  • gritsandall

    We have forgotten that some people who have enough intellect to write a column may be too stupid to write intelligently. It is not enough to have a brain that is able to learn, one must educate that brain. When liberals go to school they carefully select schools that have the same mind-set as themselves. Or, their parents select schools for them. They take care to be sure no critical thinking can get close to their minds. Whether one believes God or not, there is no excuse for misquoting him or his followers. It is sheer hypocrisy to lie about a conservative’s guiding influences while ignoring Mr. Oboma’s favorite thought police. But, when one looks up liberal in the dictionary, doesn’t it give hypocrite as an example?

  • popster

    You have read my thoughts, too much of this waste of an education is prevalent in today’s world. If they have an agenda, just say so, don’t treat us like the idiots you think we are.
    Twelve grades are just as good as twenty two if you use them properly.

  • johnt

    Where a healthy skepticism is really called for, and which the buffoons named above adhere to like little lambkins No excuses there, failure, broken promises, incompetence are all there for easy observation. One would think that a religion based openly on faith would be more understandable then a faith , political, plainly unjustified, but held tenaciously.
    There are after all, all kinds of faith. I prefer mine to Keller or Lizza’s, speaking of stupidity and ignorance.

  • gawken

    and it is helping us to make our case.

    Abortion is the one GREAT scial issue that continiues to divide this country. 20-30 years ago, we were told that pregnancies in their first months were just “little blobs of protoplasm”……well..not so…

    And science, ( sonograms, especially 4D) is probably more responsible than anything for the wave of revulsion against late term abortions…we see that the fetus is very viable..and experiences emotions…responds to stimuli..

    And until we can come up with a”scienific explanation” for the “infinite, and ever expanding univese,’..well…my faith in Giod works just fine..

  • TFS

    Here is a link to the page on Answers in Genesis with the names of scientists (past and present) who also believe in the young earth creationism. There is a lot of discrimination in the scientific world against creationists because the science-based facts they present refute today’s secular groupthink about evolution.. (This site contains lots of great information.)

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/

    I recently visited the Creation Museum in Kentucky (which I highly recommend!) with my teenagers. Wow! I was amazed at the scientific information that supports biblical creationism and shows giant holes in evolutionist’s arguments. (Again, using scientific facts as the basis for the refutation.).

    We Christians do not need to be ashamed of the gospel! It is the truth and there is science and archaeology to support it.

    Thank you Erick for continuing to be a defender of the faith. God Bless You.

  • dvdmsr

    of the natural world and the laws that govern it could repeal those laws whenever it suited Him. How small and impotent one?s god must be who is unable to do the seemingly improbable, illogical, and impossible. If your god can?t even manipulate the laws of nature so as to create the whole world in 6 earth days, then I doubt very seriously he created those laws in the first place.

    However to Erick?s point: Other than demonstrating the truly omnipotent nature of my God, I don?t think it matters whether He created the world in 6 days, 4.5 billion years or a split second. Honestly, I can?t 100% verify how long it took or what means He used because I wasn?t there and as others have pointed out the Biblical description could be interpreted to allow either answer. But as a matter of faith, I believe He did it in 6 days, and even if he didn?t, he could have because my God is that great.

  • Locked and Loaded

    They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, and they are full of greed.

    The rest of the chapter is great instruction for how to deal with them. Especially important IMO – don’t give the devil a foothold.

  • kajun

    But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. [2 Peter 3:8] [NIV]

    If these people would read the Bible to find the truth, instead of just throwing out accusations, they’d be a lot better off and probably find the truthful answer to their questions instead of their own ignorance.

    —————————————————————————-
    si?ne?cure
    A position requiring little or no work but giving the holder status or financial benefit

    synonymous with Politician

  • http://www.helpawhiteguy.com livefreenh

    Asking a presidential candidate about this would be like asking which style of dance they prefer. It has nothing to do with being president, nor with the future of the country. It might have something to do with the past and the formation of the earth and life on it, but however that went down is all done. My faith cannot change the past, nor can a president’s.

    For these “progressives” who seem to hate the past and “old-fashioned values” so much they sure spend a lot of time rehashing it.

    Perhaps the debate should be something like “would this candidate have been as bad a president as the present one is? Yes or no.”

  • sbm1

    since Schaeffer really never read or properly understood Aquinas while blaming him for the advent of secular humanism, that others would criticize him without reading or understanding him properly.

    And for all the fervent anti-Catholicism Schaeffer preached, I take some sort of cynical enjoyment in that his son converted to Eastern Orthodox, which is about as close to Catholicism as he could probably go without having his dad turn in his grave.

    But I am confident that Bachmann, Perry and Pawlenty will soon see the self evident truth that Gingrich, Novak, Bork, Jindal, Thomas, Blair and Kudlow saw and convert to the only true Church….;-)

  • losmacs

    that reporters are inherently lazy, especially when it comes to doing research, hence the problem with Lizzas inventive data infecting the rest of the members of the fourth estate. In other words, they let others do their thinking for them, and never bother their heads with facts.

    It is a given that most of those who call themselves ‘Christians’, in fact know little about the Faith unless they attend services regularly, read the Bible and immerse themselves in Christian commentary(including social commentary). Religion simply isn’t that important to them.

    As many left-leaning ‘Christians’ won’t darken the church doors on consecutive Sundays, it stands to reason that they will know very little about Christian thought, perhaps confuse Justin Martyr with Justin Bieber, or ignore the writings of the Church Fathers(What, no Mothers?!?! How sexist!!!)

  • dmacleo

    wise fools…

  • skorrent1

    I’m an engineer by training. What’s important to me is what works, and vice versa. If I’m building a house, I’m perfectly satisfied with the assumption that the earth is flat and stationary. If I’m constructing a satellite navagation system, I’d better understand that the earth is round and spinning. Newton’s laws of physics are adequate for me unless I want to build a starship.

    If one wants to study civilizations and draw from history the best principles to guide human civilization, then a 6,000 to 10,000 year timeline is adequate to that purpose. If you want to lay out a geological timeline for the earth, it may be convenient to your studies to posit an age of 4.5 billion years. However, Newtons laws object. Under the current laws of physics, it is essential that the earth-moon system have roughly its current configuration in order that the earth be stable enough to lay down the geological pattern that is being studied. But these same laws prove that the earth-moon system is unstable for periods greater than about 1.2 billion years.

    We’re left with two alternatives. Either Newton’s laws do not apply for periods in the remote past, in which case we have no idea of the age of the earth. Or, the earth is much younger than the geologists would have us believe, and they have been misinterpreting the evidence.

    But we know that scientists are always right and would never cook the books, right?

  • partyless1

    It is sad to see how many Christians have fallen prey to the humanist age of the earth that is based upon faith as well. There is plenty of physical evidence that shows the earth can not be millions of years old, just as there is plenty of evidence that the dating systems used are not accurate. The honest truth is that no one can prove one way or the other on the age of the earth, it is a point of personal beliefs and what you are willing to accept to support those views.

    It is true that many Christians do not believe in a young earth, and have contrived many reasons that allow them to align with the secular models that try to claim millions of years for the earth. That does not make those beliefs correct, nor does it condemn them for not having the full comprehension of what is stated in Genesis. The language is specific, and as such a proper Christian world view should align with the Earth being less than 10,000 years old. Since there is no way for either side to provide honest scientific proof, it will remain a debate based upon faith in evolution or faith in Creation.

  • toadold

    Let the left keep making their attacks on those with religious beliefs especially political opponents of theirs. Don’t try to break them out of their bubble. Let them hoist themselves on that petard. They apparently can’t read, don’t read, or don’t understand polling results or box office receipts. There are more people with religious beliefs in this country than those that don’t have any. For example the movers and shakers in Hollywood repeatedly don’t get it. They make a movie that is critical or mocking of religious belief and it will bomb at the box office. So now the political left is going to bomb at the ballot box.
    “But nobody that I know believes in God!”

  • runner12

    in the media are. They do not have the first clue about Christianity, yet they pretend to be experts on what Christians do or do not believe.

    Why don’t they sit down with a few Christians and talk to them? Maybe even enter a mainstream evangelical church?

    Oh wait, that would involve integrity and objectivity. Two things of which the aforementioned writers in this piece are entirely without.

  • jacobite

    The States’ lost the arguments over secession, nullification, and the 9th & 10th Amendments in 1865. Once the losing States were occupied, white people disenfranchised, private property confiscated, and affirmative-action instituted for blacks (BTW, does this program sound familiar?), it was essentially over. Whites were (geographically at first) second-class citizens under the law. As the old joke goes: “We’ve settled the question; now we’re just haggling over the price.” If you went to law school in the last 40 years, you can’t help noticing that much judicial usurpation is based in the 14th Amendment. The debt-ceiling squabble high-lighted yet another anti-American, proto-totalitarian, aspect of the 14th Amendment — i.e., the Constitutional prohibition on calling the public debt of the US into question. You think those Radical Republicans spent sleepless nights worrying about white people’s free-speech rights? Looking back it’s easy to see that the Abolitionists were much more interested in punishing white people than freeing slaves. More to the point, NY is the anti-America. They hate every aspect of America — the people, their cuture, customs, language, and religion. Not only Jews, but other folks who live in the behavior-sink that is NYC cannot be trusted or allied with on any issue. .

  • pantera

    Mere Christianity by CSLewis is a superb book that a honest journalist would read.

    Anything by Dr. Hugh Ross covers the science side.

    Eric please call the “Reasons to Believe” team. Let’s have that debate,design vs chance. Make so other media can watch. Skype whatever.

    I’ve watched this team in collage debates and they leave atheist scratching their heads.

    http://www.reasons.org/ <—website obviously.

    I'm waiting on their return call. I'm trying to get the events number to give to you.

    Eric you keep bring this subject up so let's move it forward a BIG step.

  • radman

    Excellent article Erick! Experienced writers need to remember that age-old adage that it is almost always better to say/write nothing and let people think you a fool than to publicly proclaim your ignorance on the topic…and remove all doubt!

  • Michael Dugas

    I mean to God time would have no real meaning. It could very well be mans limited comprehension that has left us with the 6 days to creation.

  • uselogic

    Great piece, Erick! It’s evident that these writers or columnists don’t even know any evangelical Christians. Otherwise, said Christians would have set them straight. And you can’t really call Keller, Lizza and Parker “reporters” because real reporters would seek out Christians and get their info straight from the horse’s mouth, so to speak.

    Nope, these three and others who parrot them are nothing but lazy, faux-intellectuals who only commune in their incestuous little circles and proclaim their ignorance for the world to see.

  • rightwingmom52

    Last night on O’Reilly, Bernie Goldberg said, “If, let’s say a candidate believes that the earth is 6,000 years old because that’s what the Bible tells him or her, and that dinosaurs walked around the earth at the same time as people did, look, that may not affect his foreign policy, and that might not affect her economic policy, but that kind of ignorance is going to affect something, and we need to know about it.” (Emphasis mine.) This is at the 40 second mark.

    here

  • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

    Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
    Wisdom is knowing not to put them in fruit salad.

  • theagent

    18Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

    19Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. — It’s important know the inspired Word.

  • theagent

    I think I understand why you say this. My take is that there is no way to convince others, using scientific facts, of a point of view they oppose. This is related to the reason why there is no free will as it relates to salvation. From what I have read there are lots of facts that disprove the old-earth theory. I read somewhere that the circumference of the sun has, for a few centuries, daily been measured by an observatory in the UK. The sun is losing (burning) x amount of its mass per day. Extrapolating backward (faster mass loss the farther back you go) about a million years and the sun would have been so big it would have burned the earth to a crisp. Funny how we always overlook the big light in the sky. Another case of Sol-itis is how the results of the CERN experiment are apostasy to global-warming religionists. Anyway, there are numerous facts that negate the possibility of an old earth, and tons of speculative hypothesis supporting an old-earth theory.

    But how can something be scientifically negated yet still be possible? To understand one must enter the realm of our faith-based, peer-reviewed, scientastical scientists who posit crap such as that science shall be defined only by things observed or in existence in the material world (see Hebrews quote below). What science means is what, where and how Darwinists and other modern-day witch hunters say it means– no more and no less. No cheating. Or as Ben Stein notes, you shall be Expelled!

    The theory of evolution cannot be sustained if the earth is less than billions of years old. Most ‘scientists’ are not even considering the possibility that the earth is young. Any scientific fact that negates the possibility of an old earth is obviously in need of further review, if it is considered at all. I always consider my Christian brethren from centuries past who had not the benefit of being educated (indoctrinated) by our modern Darwinian religionists who scoff at the idea of a young earth. All Christians had in the past was faith and the word of God, which informed them (in unambiguous language) that God’s creation took six days. All they had to do was read God’s inspired word to know about how old the earth is (and this is all we need today, too). All those ‘begats’ in the bible tell us the age of the earth. Now I read an article at RS scoffing at the scoffers who scoff that we ignoramus Christians must believe in a young earth, because, well… the bible says so. “Not so” says the RS scoffer scoffingly, “you are a lefty ignoramus to think such a thing! We know what the bible says, we smart conservative Christians, and we will not be scoffed at by you who know nothing about real Christians like us. You leftards presume to interpret passages that have no literal meaning! Why, there is even a passage in the bible that states to our Lord a thousand years is like a day– so there scoffers! We savvy new-age hipster Christians can reconcile modern science with the bible, and Darwinism too if we try extra hard. So, please don’t even try that scoffing stuff anymore, because honestly we don’t like it… pretty please?”

    There are obviously parables and dark meanings in the bible, only revealed to those whose eyes are opened by God, but the number of days enumerated in Genesis is not one of them (wishful and imaginative thinking aside). In fact, believing otherwise only means that God has not opened your eyes to His word and truth, even when the meaning of His word is obvious and literal. “And the evening and the morning were the first day.” This must mean something like 10 to 50 million years, right? That has to be why He included the words “evening and morning” to add to the definition of “day,” because He really meant a very long epoch! Please decide if you are with the group-thinkers or not– if you are in the world but not of the world, and stop trying to bridge the gap.

    There is only one truth, and my brethren of centuries past knew what to believe. I believe in what the bible actually says, and and not what others (or myself) wishes it to say.

    Hebrews 11

    1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    2For by it the elders obtained a good report.

    3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

    Genesis 1

    1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

    4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

    5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

    7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

    8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

    9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

    10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

    11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

    12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    13And the evening and the morning were the third day.

    14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

    15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

    16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

    17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

    18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

    19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

    20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

    21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

    23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

    24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

    25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

    30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

    31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

  • http://thecorruptworld.blogspot.com/ wayneinnh

    I work in a scientific community with what some would call the best and brightest minds. The Answers In Genesis web site is one of the best apologetic resources there is available. I have used it several times to show that I am not simply a blind sheep covering my eyes and plugging my ears to avoid the “science” being taught as fact.

    It’s always fun to go toe to toe with an MIT’er over carbon dating, fossil records, and flood geology. However, bypassing the intellect and going for the conscience by bringing sin into the light and the need for a savior allows for the Holy Spirit to begin His work convicting the soul.

  • azaeroprof

    (Full disclosure: I am an old earth creationist, but I am not concerned by those who believe in young earth creation. The important thing is not how we were created, but that we were created!!)

    Imagine you’re walking through the woods and come across a box filled with all of the parts from a fine Swiss watch. While it is obvious to you that these are parts intelligently designed and masterfully created to make a precision time instrument, your buddy insists that someone must have collected the parts (which had accidentally appeared in nature). Further, your buddy claims that if he were to shake the box a billion times (or trillion, or quadrillion), eventually the parts would accidentally form into a fine precision timepiece.

    Now, who is the smart one in this analogy? Obviously, your buddy’s position is idiotic and ludicrous and by far the unintellectual one! Yet creationists are constantly having our intelligence insulted by Darwinists whose belief system is equivalent to the box-shaking buddy in our story. Who are the real dummies here?!

  • http://www.deadfishwrapper.com Oregon Conservative

    After reading through the comments above I won’t wade into the young earth/old earth war, but I will point out something one error that is common among those of the young earth persuasion, and that is ignoring the Hebrew verbs used in Genesis 1. In particular, I’m referring to this phrase made by Erick:

    Nevermind that in Genesis the sun and moon weren?t even created until the third or forth day.

    In addition to the mis-spelling, the problem is the assumption that the verb used on the fourth day means created right then out of nothing. That is correct with the verb ‘bara’ that is used elsewhere in Genesis, but the verb used on the fourth day – ‘asah’ – refers to an action completed in the past. In addition, it also refers to fashioning out of something already made, not bringing forth something brand new by divine fiat (as ‘bara’ does).

    That’s just one of the many flaws in the young earth view, but I just wanted to correct this one. As pantera points out above, anything by Hugh Ross will answer any of these questions, both from a science and theological perspective.

  • lineholder

    line of thought as well, which correlates very well to your watchmaker’s analogy.

    Whether they like owning up to it or not, evolution requires as much a leap of faith to believe that the world we live was developed accidentally as the leap of faith that is necessary to believe that there is a Creator who is far more superior to us as human beings in both knowledge and wisdom who designed it.

  • thomasmitchel

    Assuming you are correct about the meaning of the Hebrew in Gen 1:16, recording the creation of the sun and moon, the simplest and most literal interpretation in context is that it refers to the completed act of the creation of the heavenly bodies stated in Gen 1:14. The word bara is the word in Gen 1:1 referring to the fact that God created all matter out of nothing. The word hyh is used in verses 3 (light), 6 (firmament) and 14 (heavenly bodies), and over 3000 more times in the OT. Other words are used for the sprouting of the plants and creation of the animals. Before positing other flaws in the young earth view I would highly recommend you spend some time at the site, Answers in Genesis.

  • aesthete

    *not* creationism, per se. To continue your analogy, you insisting that the watch was created fully-formed in a 7-day period along with the rest of the world sounds no less absurd than your friend positing that it emerged from the natural evolution of a sundial to a more efficient form.

    From a philosophical standpoint, what is important is the origin and existence of the soul, not of our corporeal bodies. After all, regardless, of whether they were formed in a 24-hour increment or through the process of evolution, it’s undeniable that the corporeal bodies in which our souls are housed are not uniquely differentiable from those of the animal kingdom. We all have DNA, anatomical systems, adrenaline which influences our perception of the world, etc.