HPV and Why It Matters

http://twitter.com/bdomenech Ben Domenech

Politico: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/63369.html

“And this time, Bachmann added a bracing story that she said a woman told her in Florida overnight.

“I will tell you that I had a mother last night come up to me here in Tampa, Fla., after the debate. She told me that her little daughter took that vaccine, that injection, and she suffered from mental retardation thereafter,” Bachmann said.

She continued: “The mother was crying what she came up to me last night. I didn’t know who she was before the debate. This is the very real concern and people have to draw their own conclusions.”

Marcus_Traianus

The only negative for Perry was the way he handled it. I think that is mostly because he was surprised by the scale of his opponents attack. Perry’s fault; prepare for the worst, hope for the best- and all that. But it won’t happen again.

For Bachmannn, it made her look like and opportunist who is light on accomplishments and long on rhetoric. Where are her policy proposals based on personal experience? Accomplishments on jobs? Nothing. Just some screeching about HPV.

At the end of the day, does anyone really think Perry is a big government, force policies down your mouth politician? His record sure doesn’t show it.

Final nail for Bachmann? Linking it to “drug company donations”? C’mon Erick that was just over the top and Ron Paul-esque. Maybe next she can say that Perry supports Obamacare because Texas takes money from the Federal government.

Last but not least; Perry admitted it was a mistake. It was an executive judgement he regretted. That makes him more human and appealing to a certain segment of voters. THat was actually refreshing.

Bill S

is that Perry’s handlers are doing an abysmal job in preparing him for these events. Jeez, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that there are a couple of key issues on which he is vulnerable, and this is one of them. Surely they could have given him some better talking points to use and actually rehearsed how he would respond. His responses to this and the in-state-tuition for children of illegals questions were horrid. To me, that indicates a massive fail on debate prep.

Kyle-MI

n/t

http://www.planettron.com NickDeringer

As a resident of MA we now wait an average of 55 days to see a doctor. The “Exchange” is no bargain. But at the end of the day, it is massive intrusion on our lives that shouldn’t be there.

And there’s no “opt out” provision.

lizabtha

Perry+ emotion =bad. Bachmann+ emotion=good?

Michelle came off as a total harpy-nut on the issue. I say that as a mom of many children, who is religious and conservative.

As long as there was an opt-out, big whoop. These are GOVERNMENT schools, people. Mandates IS their middle name.

If you don’t like gov’t mandates, what the heck are you sending your kids to GOVERNMENT schools for, anyway?

Opt-out-able injections are about the least of your worries in the gov’t schools. Sheesh.

lizabtha

Michelle Bachmann doesn’t care if your daughters get cancer.

lizabtha

Just joining the HPV nutter-brigade, from a different angle.

jkines

Unless said individual commits to a lifelong vow of celibacy this is not a liberty issue but a public health concern. Over 80% of women will contract HPV in their lifetime, and 70% of cervical and penile cancers can be prevented by the Gardisil vaccination. Yet the issue of penile cancer among men is almost utterly ignored by anti-vaccination fanatics who understand neither the demographics nor the science. Thanks in no small part to such anti-vaccine histrionics we are on the verge of cervical and penile cancer epidemics of historic proportions. Due to her insipid vapidity last night, I refuse to support Bachmann under any circumstances. If she in fact gets the nomination, I will vote the libertarian ticket. If that means 4 more years of Obama, as much as I hate that thought, so be it.

earlgrey

seriously?

Change Jar Conservative

If we’re talking about poor decision making then Perry needs to even things out with a slam on Romneycare.

Kyle-MI

Hasn’t he already said that he was wrong in issuing the executive order? He needs to stick with that simple fact and add a little bit of explanation of why it was wrong from a conservative perspective.

I think where he is going wrong is that we wants to argue that it was a reasonable mistake. Some of the anti-vaccine people are trying to paint him as some crazed dictator. He wants to point out that the mistake wasn’t based on any evil intent. Unfortunately, this line of thought comes out as trying to justify the mistake.

What he needs to do is just state that is was a mistake, explain why it was a mistake based on conservative principles, and reassure people that he has learned from it and will not do it again. He needs to just stick to this simple plan and not try to explain how he got into the situation.

http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

This is not an issue in 2012. Not even close. In the world of “I so desperate that I’m going to find something to talk about” this is KING. Kinda like attacking Obama because his aunt and his uncle are both there illegally and ignoring OCare, the NLRB, etc.

This is a sure loser. Spend any more time on this crap and we’ve got four more years of disaster. The candidates should be talking about what they’d do differently from Obama on issues, not this stupidity.

Jim Tomasik

jlt

Bill S

And I am stunned that this isn’t happening. If there’s a candidate with a big honkin’ exposure, it’s Romney and his ObamaRomneyCare debacle. The rest of the crowd should be beating the living crap out of him over this. I attribute the lack of criticism to a) an obsession on Rick Perry, and b) a “debate” format that allows the leftist moderators (e.g. Blitzer) to focus on what they want to, and guys like Blitzer do not want to see socialized medicine take a beating.

Paul Seale

Being a parent let me throw my two cents worth into the discussion on this matter.

Bachmann’s attack last night proved to me, and my wife, that she is nothing more than someone who knows how to attack while offering little leadership or substance.

I personally found her remarks on the matter insulting as a parent who would be unable to make a decision whether to opt out of a policy or not.

Bachmann’s decision to take on Perry in a tone which equated him to essentially hating little girls and puppy dogs should concern all Republican candidates. The discussion focused not on policy, but crossed a threshold into personal attacks which would prevent her from endorsing Perry and helping us engage and defeat Obama in the general election.

Bachmann is doing best what she always does best – throwing bombs at an issue with little or no substance when it comes down to leading and building substantive solutions. She would do well to consider Reagan’s 11th commandment.

The truth is the only person who provided substance beyond talking points and one liner attacks was Herman Cain. The rest could be chalked up to desperate candidacies vying for an opportunity to take a pot shot at the leader and see what would stick.

Erick, you are correct that Perry did not handle the question as skillfully as needed. HPV by executive order was a bad mistake, which Perry did not handle well as governor of Texas.

If memory serves me correctly, the executive order did not take place and Gov Perry since recanted saying it was a bad decision – one he would not do again.

With that said, I did find it odd that Perry took more of a hit for the HPV decision than Romney did for passing what became the model for Obamacare.

In my view, Bachmann’s HPV charge last night was nothing more than a personal attack more about saving her flailing candidacy than finding solutions for America.

jkines

HPV also causes penile cancer in men, the fact that this reality is so underreported is quite distressing in fact. I can’t begin to count the number of patients I have who think this is just a women’s concern.

Paul Seale

But otherwise agree. This should be an issue the Perry campaign knows inside and out.

jiminga

we deserve to lose. Perry made a mistake and admitted it, while Romney continues to support his flawed position on socialized medicine. Obamnycare is a deal breaker but I doubt conservatives will fail to support Perry based on the HPV “scandal”.

In the end, Blitzer did a great job of trying to make sure Perry had a target on his back….mission accomplished. He also gave Huntsman way too many opportunities to shine, but Jon boy wasn’t up to the task.

It was also interesting that Blitzer directed the question on the Fair Tax only to Cain and then ran away from any further discussion.

Overall, I’d say CNN was the winner. They succeeded in pushing their agenda…..ding Perry and showcase Huntsman, while pretty much ignoring the serious questions posed by the Tea Party members.

westcoastpatriette

I am pretty shocked that he is not addressing the illegal immigration issue more comprehensively. He is leaving himself wide open for furious push-back as he is looking more and more oblivious to the anger so many people feel about allowing this problem to fester.

Many people are not willing to accept that there is nothing that can be done about the problem. And there is much more to the problem than just securing the border. So far, his answers are insufficient, to put it mildly.

mriggio

What kind of a mandate allows one to opt-out? Is this the same as the Romney-care mandate? Or the social-security mandate? On reflection it seems HPV mandate is misuse of the word, especially since it was inserted to guarantee insurance payments. Much ado about nothing.

http://twitter.com/TJexcite tjexcite

The the only reason they object to HPV is because it is given to 12 year olds which now means that they are ready for sex. Under this thought those kids will not get it as of the sexual nature is just petty. Just wait until the an Aids vaccine comes out that has to be given at age 2 for life time protection when given to older people it only last a few years.

mriggio

nt

lookingforward

Normally I am right there with you on the issues that matter, and I do agree that Perry needs to (and I think largely has) address why he used an executive order for an issue like this. It was a bad decision, and he has more or less admitted that. All that being said, Bachmann is way off base on this issue. Last night she sounded like a raving lunatic, talking like helpless girls were grabbed from their parents, strapped to a table, and given dangerous drugs against their will. It is quite possible that nobody received the vaccine because of the EO, but if anyone did, it was because they agreed to, as there was an easy opt-out. Bachmann is engaging in baseless, emotional hysterics reminiscent of liberals who talk about children dying every time one suggests cutting a government program. There is no place for that, even if you are in a distant third place desperately grasping for relevance. If I were Rick Perry, when this comes up at the next debate (and it will), I would say, “In the last two debates, this issue has taken up an enormous amount of time. I have admitted that my executive order was a mistake, and the reality is that anyone in an executive position for eleven years has made some mistakes. I certainly have. Unlike those in legislative positions, mayors, governors and presidents have to make real decisions every day. There is no way to hide from them. Nobody bats 1000 in that situation. I don’t think, however, that the American people want to hear us squabble about a four-year old executive order that has long since been repealed. They want to hear about our vision for the future, for getting government off their backs, for freeing up American businesses to create jobs and get America working again…”

annas

Looked like a shrew! Opt out vaccines are not the issue of our time. He said he made a mistake. Did she want him to cut his wrists onstage? PLUS that bogus story about some kid getting mental retardation? The vaccine is given at 12 or so- did she just popup with mental retardation at 12? It is just as well most were watching football! What lame attacks from the folks who are losing!

Change Jar Conservative

Yesterday morning, I was starting to feel as though Romney might win this thing and the debate furthers that.

Perry is still in the lead, but there is some momentum for Romney … economic plan, battering Perry in debate, good web ad attacking Obama’s pro-union bullying.

Oh and I know no one wants Newt to be VP given his global warming and general warming up to the lefties on certain things, but boy wouldn’t he just tear Joe Biden a new one in a VP debate.

jen0517

Every newborn infant receives a government mandated Hepatits B vaccine. One must “opt out” to avoid receiving the vaccine. Hepatitis B is a blood borne, sexually transmitted disease. I don’t hear a huge outrage about that? Is this not the practically the same as the HPV issue? I mean innocent, newborn BABIES are receiving this vaccine!

It just seems that some are making a HUGE deal about this when they had not problems with previous vaccines.

I am a believer in parenteral rights, but I also believe in vaccines. As a healthcare professional, I know that many, many diseases have been eradicated because of vaccine programs.

Perry thought he was doing the right thing. But parents protested and so he listened to them and changed his position. I think it is great that he listened to the people.

I am wrong?

streiff

it IS the same argument.

renl57

Romney was governor of MA, not TX.

If you’re going to reform health care in MA, then Romney’s plan was about as reasonable as you can get passed in a heavily liberal Democrat state. It works through the private insurance companies, rather than abolishing them as with single-payer. He could get away with a mandate because the liberals in MA love mandates, and would love to have even more mandates on more things.

Just across the border, VT is going with single-payer. And that’s what the huge college/liberal crowd in Cambridge MA and Wellesley MA and the Berkshires would have wanted for MA.

So the only other choice Romney would have had as governor was to throw up his hands and refuse to reform health care at all. A free-market reform would never have passed there.

But that’s not the kind of guy Romney is. He’s a problem solver, and is willing to solve a problem in a way suited to the customers (who in this care happen to be heavily liberal).

ObamaCare is different. It’s an attempt to mandate a MA-style health care reform even on conservative red states that would prefer something very different.

edintexas

“Over 80% of women will contract HPV in their lifetime…”. Odd, the CDC, which sort of has a vested interest in promoting issues involving communicable diseases, states that 50% of men and women will be infected in their lifetime. Currently CDC claims 20 million Americans are infected, with an additional 6 million becoming infected each year.

Oh, and CDC also states that there are more than 40 different types of HPV, of which Gardasil is active against 4 (admittedly the 4 with known statistical ties to cervical cancer). CDC states “In 90% of cases, the body?s immune system clears HPV naturally within two years.” Scare tactics, such as you are employing, are counter productive.

And, unlike your suggestion, absolute abstinence (celibacy) is not the only alternative to Gardasil. Abstinence does work, and if one marries and avoids adultery, it isn’t necessarily a lifelong program to avoid STDs. However, safe sex is more effective, it prevents both ALL STDs AND Pregnancy.

edintexas

Safe sex is more effective than Gardasil, not abstinence outside of marriage.

sayoung80913

ITt pains me greatly to say it, because as a woman, I can’t help but want to see others-especially conservative- women succeed,BUT,Michele lost my respect last night with this argument. The reason for that loss is because this woman,whom I had thought was a decent person,purposely mislead viewers about the HPV shot. Not once did she mention an “opt out.” No parents were FORCED to vaccinate their daughters,none,zip,zero,zilch. I thought maybe she misspoke,but then she went on Greta and re-iterated it and this morning she sent out an email with the same line. As a woman who took her daughter in for her exam and vaccinations, it was explained very patiently to us by the doctor and because I wanted to research it , I signed an opt out form myself,researched it and later brought my daughter back for it. It was CLEARLY EXPLAINED that at all times, I could decide to opt out of it. Perhaps I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed but I know the difference between a FORCED vaccination(hubby and kids are now active duty and were FORCED to get a swine flu and anthrax shot) and it being left up to me. Misleading by leaving out pertinent information is LYING. In short ,Michele LIED. She lied and she lied to gain political traction-that is a fatal flaw and she is now dead to me.Sarah Palin as well finally crossed the line with me by backing up Michelle on this and the mental retardation story-pure BS. I’m afraid the women who are conservatives are going to crucify Michele and Sarah for knowingly lying and preying on their fear. I went to DC to see Bachmann last year,twice. I also went to DC to see Sarah Palin. Palin has destroyed herself with her coy “will she or won’t she run” crap and on Greta she said something along the lines of “I love it-nobody knows and everything I say,people talk about”-I’m through with her critiques of people who have actually put themselves out there for consideration while she runs around taking pot shots. To anyone who knows me, they know how excruciating it is for me to say that about Palin. Yet the truth unspoken is still the truth. Michelle also claimed that the constitution does not allow for states to create their own health care program. That is almost laughably false-does she not grasp the tenth amendment? Good Lord she has ruined her credibility in spectacular fashion. she has marginalized herself with this one. The guys may not understand this but women do not take kindly to other women who try to create a sense of fear involving their children and their own bodies. Michelle, the mother of 23 children should have known better than to do what she did here. Fact checking will quickly ruin her as it rightfully should.

streiff

1. the “admittedly” is a huge point, not a parenthetical statement. Gardasil is effective against the HPV strains with a known link to cervical cancer.

2. I totally agree that abstinence works. I don’t think building a public health policy around the idea is all that great. In the case of HPV, abstinence only works if both persons are abstinent before marriage. This may be a laudable goal but am I willing to bet that the person my child marries was abstinent before marriage.

3. For a vaccine to work you need herd immunity. This requires something on the order of 80% of the population to be vaccinated. This is the principle behind childhood vaccinations for diseases, like polio, which the child is unlikely to encounter.

http://lazarusreport.blogtownhall.com/ Tom Lesser

Larger concern on this issue is Erick?s third/other point:

He or his staff should have known this issue was out there.

He or his staff should have prepared a better, simpler response.

If both of the above were done, he should have delivered it better.

Romney has benefited immensely for having gone through the process in 2008.

Perry has a lot of catching up to do. He better be a fast learner.

http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

since it can only apply to a woman.

There is room for at least one more candidate in this, folks. What you saw last night was a far cry from conservative nirvana.

ss396

Perry could have used his position as a bully pulpit to advocate for the vaccine (Merck connections notwithstanding). Instead, he chose to mandate it. I was given to believe that he chose the mandate in order to compel insurance coverage for it. It is an expensive vaccine.

Of course, that opens up an entirely new wing of argument about government interference in the health care market.

audax

If Governor Perry didn’t mandate it (with the opt out) then parents who wanted the vaccaine would have to pay for the series of 3 to 4 shots at $160 or so a pop. With the mandate, the insurance company would charge the co-pay only. Perry should explain this in more detail. This “mandate” never went into effect and shouldn’t become the “abortion” issue of the 2012 campaign.

The HPV mandate isn’t the issue here, it is a politicians reflex to use the power of the state over the individuals free choice to have or not have the vaccine. The opt out blunted the power of the state to impose this tyranny.

The HPV mandate is not why I would vote for or against Perry and it certainly distracts from the real issues and they include:

Obama,
Obamacare,
Sad state of our economy,
Unemployment,
Energy expoloration and development,
Gasoline prices,
Food price inflation,
Social Security Ponzi Scheme,
Out of control spending by the Congress,
Over regulation by the state,
National Security and protecting our borders,
Etc….

I want to hear the candidates expound on these issues and how they are going to take a meat axe to the Federal budget, the bloodier they paint that picture the better, that will be my man or woman!

Mike Ferguson

Here is the link to the CDC information in the above post, jkines, it took me about 30 seconds to find it.

http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv.htm

Yes, it is true that most people will clear the HPV virus, this happens with many other virus’s as well, including Hepatitis.

However, your final point regarding abstinence, I think is just poorly written. abstinence is a lifelong program to avoiding sexually transmitted diseases, which HPV is a sexually transmitted disease since it can pretty much only be transmitted sexually, though most people think of HIV and Hepatitis as an STD, they happen to be blood born pathogens that can be transmitted sexually, they are not simply STD’s.

Secondly, NOTHING is more effective than abstinence. Safe sex only decreases the chances of pregnancy and STD’s. It by no means “prevents ALL STDs and Pregnancy” as you assert.

Please remember Scare tactics are counter productive, but they are no worse than giving people the wrong information, especially when trying to combat the scare tactics.

So before the question is asked, yes I am a medical professional, I have been a Nurse for 15 years and I have 5 year of experience in plasma/blood donation’s which included extensive training on blood born pathogens and STD’s.

streiff

to a certain extent Perry seems to have been expecting the primary to be a coronation. His staff needs to do a much better job prepping him.

edintexas

There may be some people who oppose the vaccine itself, but most oppose the use of the police power* of the state to require this vaccination – and the use of an Executive Order putting the police power into effect.

And you state: “Unfortunately, this line of thought comes out as trying to justify the mistake.” It doesn’t come out as trying to justify the mistake, it is an attempt to justify.

You are absolutely correct that Perry should respond with something like “I made a mistake which I did not/will not make again. I should have taken the issue to the people, explaining why I thought this was needed, and then placed a proposal before the Legislature.”

sayoung80913

This reminds me of a midwife who moved to our hometown when i was pregnant with my firstborn. She was new and a lot of moms to be eagerly went to see her. That is ,until an obstetrician in town started a rumor campaign that she had a string of “unfortunate” births where the babies had ended up with issues in another town. The rumor mill started whirling in the park and at the school-you know how this goes. Her patients stopped coming to see her and eventually she left. Imagine our surprise when her mother came into town one day and in the church informed us all that the “string of unfortunate births” had been the midwife’s own. She had been pregnant with two sets of twins and all of her babies had died in the last trimester because of a genetic disorder. she no longer could have children but chose to become a midwife to help other women realize something she would never be able to. The OBGYN who started the rumor had known this, but you know he hadn’t actually LIED right? only mislead for his own financial gain,like Michelle LIED for her own political gain by leaving out an extremely pertinent fact.

Jim Tomasik

World English Dictionary
shrew (?ru?) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

? n
1. See also water shrew Also called: shrewmouse any small mouse-like long-snouted mammal, such as Sorex araneus ( common shrew ), of the family Soricidae: order Insectivora (insectivores)Related: soricine
2. a bad-tempered or mean-spirited woman

Bad temper…check
mean-spirited…check
woman….check

Yep, it fits.

carolina

.

Mike Ferguson

if maybe they were taking the “just let it blow over” approach, because they are looking to the General election and not the primary? As most people here know they do take 2 different strategies.

I also get the impression that neither Perry nor his staff was expecting the massive dog pile that happened.

Hopefully, Perry will stay true to form and learn from this mistake and do much better next time.

annas

When I hear Bachman again this morning on FOX, I stand by my shrew statement.

lineholder

If what someone is looking for is the same type of ruthless, cunning behavior that all too often pervades the realm of politics, then I guess Bachmann and the other candidates who let themselves get led by the nose down this path of attacking each other have plenty to be proud of this morning.

For myself, I agree with you, becker. Debates like this give the left a stick to beat us with.

katnandu

I agree completely that the Gardasil Executive Order was telling. This is the mindset of a politician that feels he knows what is best for “the masses”. It bothered me at the time and he has not made me more comfortable in his current explanation/ defense of those actions.

sayoung80913

And she just said the same exact thing in an interview this morning. She must think this is a winning issue for her,but she is slowly encircling herself in a web of false facts that she will not be able to get out of.
if I’m a campaign adviser for Perry, I would naturally assume that Bachmann would have seen this as her hill to fight on. I then would wait to see what her response was, and then let her rush out to say it,write it,quote it in as many forums as possible. Then a fact filled newsletter and response would be forthcoming a week or so later that points people to the truth and permanently destroys Bachmann. She fell hook line and sinker for an issue she shouldn’t have elaborated on with more than “it wouldn’t have been a decision I would have made”
Instead she went hog wild,especially with that mental retardation story. I wonder if Merck could sue for that? Is there any proof to what she said-NO, did she check the facts carefully before spouting off-apparently not. Too bad, I thought she was a better person than that and I once happily backed her but now I can see that she is not above scaring myself and my daughter in order for her to attain office.

edintexas

Not my best day. I keep getting interrupted and lose track. I intended to include a definition of “police power”, which is a term used in the legal world to refer to the authority of a government to restrict private rights for public safety and welfare.

johnt

while Obama and the gangsters push us into the enforced poor house/clinic health care sewer. It should be interesting to see how LibScum handle this one. Answer, shamelessly.

travelguy

As a father with a daughter in the target demographic for the HPV vaccination when it was first released, this is such a non-issue. We did not live in Texas, so my wife and I paid the full price for the series.

Perry’s explanation for the EO was to make it possible for insurance to cover the $300+ cost. Should he have done it by EO? In retrospect, no. Is this a fatal character flaw? Absolutely not.

edintexas

You know how to lose a debate through ignoring the substance of your opponent’s position and ascribing to them your best belief of how stupid you think they are.

http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

In the world of inflammatory and wrong your “police powers” statement is way up there on the foolish scale.

I don’t happen to like the idea, or the way it was done. Perry admitted it was a mistake. Move on people. Let’s talk about RomneyCare and the fact that Mitt is still defending it. Let’s point out that it’s raising all kinds of hell with the MA budget and healthcare in general. Let’s talk about what we’d do to get rid of O-Care, start energy exploration again, get the pipeline from Canada moving so we can buy energy from a peaceful neighbor instead of Islamic nutjobs and Mexico, etc.

This is a non-issue. Both Michelle & Erick are absolutely wrong.

Greg Horstman

I think this will hurt Michelle more than Rick. It became apparent to me that she chose this hill as her make or break and it’s not going to work for her after last night’s shrill move. She sounded more Ron Paulian than Presidential.

oldbird77

what’s most frustrating for me watching Perry in debates. There are good answers he could give to defend himself or his positions but he fumbles them more often than not and gives somewhat glib soundbites and talking points instead. I’ve been kinda disappointed with his debates thus far.

pttx333

and Palin. As a female myself, Michelle came across to me as a shrill, b*tchy, whiny female of the kind that everyone shudders when she speaks. Then there’s Palin behaving like a 16 year-old with the very unattractive coy act – I agree with you there. The two of them have confirmed my original stance that in 2012 we need a firm, strong, honest MAN as our nominee. These two women have shown themselves to be unfit to successfully run against Obama, and I certainly do not want them representing me. The bottom line here is to defeat the incumbent(s) and get this nation back on track, and the women have blown it for me – for good. They appear to be quite unstable at this juncture. Michelle’s out-and-out LYING is despicable.

Thanks for your great comment and for saying it loud and clear. Of course, I will vote for whoever our nominee happens to be – I just do not want to hold my nose again while doing so!

juumanistra

Well done, Rep. Bachmann. It takes takes a very special kind of incompetence to rival Ron Paul in the quackery department, but by grabbing onto the Gardassil issue as you have in this manner, you’ve succeeded in doing it.

I wonder if she’s considered getting Christine O’Donnell to campaign with her. They’re so much alike! As, really, is all that much better than opening up your general election with the phrase, “I am not a witch[,]” in terms of utter and abject stupidity?

Sean Davis

The cervical cancer caused by the two most destructive strains of HPV is 7x more deadly to women than Hepatitis B, also a sexually transmitted disease.

Why is this important? Because Hepatitis B vaccinations are required. In Minnesota. For kindergartners.

http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

As you note, hopefully this straw issue will die a violent death at the hands of truth and reason.

And, hopefully we won’t be hearing any more from Michelle Bachmann on anything that doesn’t relate to her keeping her seat in the House.

sayoung80913

they LET opponents make these statements,get them on the record, and then skewer them later with the facts.consider a cat who toys with a mouse,takes a swipe her,another over there and then lets the mouse think it has gotten away,licks it’s paw or something. A cat even lets the mouse take off for a few seconds before it pounces in for the kill. Perry has never been a strong debater, what he is and does so effectively is give his opponents enough rope to destroy themselves. He’ll take a few hits just to give the other side the notion that they need to pursue it further,which they invariably do and then down comes the hammer. It happened with the Ponzi scheme-people talked about it for days and his numbers went up, and it is already happening with the gardisil issue-the facts are being checked this morning and uh oh-Bachmann appears to have WAAAAY over reached just like Romney last week. And just like that folks, two things that the Perry team had identified as a crutch for Perry,one something written in a book and the other an EO have effectively been dealt with and put to bed. If you have ever played chess you can see the long game being played out here by very savvy people.

oldbird77

Did Perry go about it the wrong way? yes. But let’s be honest, Bachmann thinks she can get traction on this because HPV is sexually transmitted. Bachmann got sooo annoying repeating that phrase, “innocent little girls” over and over again as if the threat of HPV was the only thing standing between these young women and reckless debauchery.

The state requires all kinds of inoculations. I don’t really understand how this is different. That HPV is primarily transmitted sexually doesn’t phase me. I’m a conservative Christian with a daughter. As long as nothing comes out saying the vaccine isn’t safe, I plan on having her immunized. I whole heartedly believe in abstinence, but I also believe that just because you sin, you shouldn’t have to be doomed to life-threatening cancer if it’s preventable. If you got AIDS from lying and there was a vaccine, would people be against it because only sinners get AIDS?

http://www.lookoutkokomo.com lookoutkokomo

He is no different than any other statist in government. Find a cause that generates emotion, wield the power of government to “save the day”.

Simply remarkable that we are all willing to rally around “more of the same.”

Like so many statists before him, Perry’s road to tyranny will be paved with good intentions.

Will we ever learn?? Sometimes I feel like I am the only principled conservative left on the planet. However… I know there is at least one more.

kinggold

without resorting to paranoiac conspiracy theory in a desperate attempt to stay relevant.

Bachmann had Perry back on his heels, but as she is known to do, she took it about three steps too far.

oldbird77

As a man I prefer female politicians who carry themselves more like Thatcher and Rice than Palin and Bachmann.

pttx333

recalls all too well when the Gardisil issue came about, I was and still am proud of Perry for backtracking openly and honestly his original belief on the vaccine. I was angry initially, but then I appreciated that Perry was a true man to admit he was mistaken. How many politicians (male or female) do that? And, yes, the pile-on last night by Bachmann and Santorum was absolutely and totally uncalled for. I’m embarrassed for both of them and wish that the two of them would just go away – I have turned a deaf ear and will listen to them no more.

edintexas

You apparently under the misapprehension that those opposed to the EO had a problem with the vaccine. I wouldn’t say there were no Texans who were opposed on the basis of the vaccine, there had to be one or two. But the vast majority of Texans opposed this as yet another government mandate into lives already too full of government mandates, and also Perry exceeding the bounds of his official position in attempting to impose the requirement on Texas families. It is, regardless of what some might say or believe, a “liberty” issue for most Texans.

The vaccine may be fine (probably is), but is it the only way to prevent the spread of the less than 10% of HP Viri which are linked to cervical cancer? Is it the best way to prevent the spread of one STD (or Sexually Transmitted Infection if you prefer the CDC term)? I submit the answer to the former question is an unqualified “No”. And I also submit that a method which prevents all STDs, and pregnancy as a beneficial extra for minors who just have to be sexually active, is available – the use of condoms for “safe sex”. And women/girls certainly have the weapon to ensure that even those boys/men who don’t wish to use a condom will find a good reason to do so.

As for those who buy the rather belated argument that this was done as a good thing which was intended to ensure that insurance companies paid for the immunization, there are several things to say about that:

1. This was not the reason given to Texans at the time. If it was the driving factor, why was it absent from media in discussion at the time?

2. Those who find this a perfectly acceptable reason should immediately declare themselves to be “moderates”. It certainly isn’t a Conservative position that you should be able to transfer costs you incur onto the population at large. If you believe in the idea that the insurance reason is legitimate, how can you oppose Obamacare? It is the same thing, writ large. It even has opt-outs, though only if they are granted by Dear Leader and his entourage,

Tom Armstrong

so… to be a bona fide member of the Tea Party, I need to be in favor of measles, rubella, and diptheria?

sayoung80913

watch and see. First,how do you pick off the other tea party candidate who is a woman without coming off as a sexist(c’mon,of course that would have been next)? Gardisil and over reach by a desperate candidate. Done in by her own failure to simply check the facts and reign in the hyperbole. BYE only female in the race and her voters won’t hold it against him because she self destructed by misleading them herself. SSN and the line in Fed up is over with,immigration has started and you can bet this has been gamed out with past bills and statements from Romney too. Romneycare will be the final blow and Rick Perry will have been completely vetted. Independents and Latinos will appreciate his immigration stance and conservatives will appreciate everything else.

Tom Armstrong

so… to be a bona fide Conservative, I need to be in favor of measles, rubella, and diptheria?

oldbird77

Perry’s answer on Climate Change in the prior debate was very bad. He re-affirmed the idea that global warming “deniers” are uninformed and anti-science. I was very disappointed. I want to like Perry, but I get concerned when I can come up with better answers on the spot then he can.

edintexas

And Obamacare? Same basic principle – spread the cost around. With “opt out” too!

oldbird77

I’m leaning towards voting for the guy who wants to punch cancer in the face.

Marcus_Traianus

Perry is really having trouble finding his footing. That has nothing to do with his opponents and everything to do with his team preparation.

I believe he will get better as time goes on. But there is a limited amount of time and come the General, Perry needs to hit his stride.

jtlfromfredmd

Gardasil argument, all of the Republican candidates need to place a written reminder on their podiums that states “DEFEAT OBAMA 2012″. They should then be spending their time explaining to us how they are going to do it. That is all I care about.

americanmale

I’m starting to think she has really bad coaching. And if her argument is tailored for the woman vote (Sympathy), I fear one of her bullets are being wasted.

She needs to reframe the argument to the question as to whether or not the Federal or State government has any say within the confines of the Doctor – Patient relationship.

Next, affirm her belief in the non intrusive, government hands off approach.

Then, use the Gardasil issue to state that Gov Perry does not fully believe in the “hands off” conservative approach.

After that, she can embellish a bit, group together Romney, Perry…and Obamacare, and win the issue.

Right now, she isn’t winning the issue.

sayoung80913

For me it was the “FORCED” issue. My husband was FORCED,literally threatened with UCMJ action for his refusal to get the anthrax shot in the Army. he HAD to do it,regardless of his own fear and worries. The same situation was repeated with the Swine flu shot-no choice and as a senior NCO don’t you dare cause a scene. Contrasting that with my daughter and I going in for her exam and how the entire vaccination was handled is like night and day. I listened first in disbelief and gave her the benfit of the doubt as just a hurriedly spoken mistake. I then listened in shock and then fury as she went onto talk show after talk show and doubled down on the lie. When I opened my email inbox this morning and found a fund raising email with the exact same wordage it was the last damn straw

oldbird77

Santorum seemed kinda Shrewish to.

pttx333

retardation is akin to something that Ron Paul would say. I do not know any more about medicine than the average citizen, but it just doesn’t compute to me that someone is fine one day, takes a vaccine, and then is retarded the next day. What? I fully believe that Bachmann lied and that there was no such woman who “told” her that story. What a load of baloney!

oldbird77

I wish we could make a new, super candidate by mixing the best qualities of all 3 of those guys.

Scope

It’s the truth. Perry gets attacked by EE for allowing emotions to make his HPV decision, and he claims that it is worrisome for a president. But then he comes out and honors Bachmann “I told her she kicked Perry’s ass” for being an emotional mother in fighting against the mandate. There is so much wrong with that it makes your head spin, if you could even wrap your head around the it’s OK for her, but it’s not OK for him argument.

I am beginning to wonder if the whiners and moaners posting here at RedState that RS is in the tank for Perry haven’t taken control of some minds, and caused a rediculous and very unnecessary attack such as this to go up on the front page.

The desperate Bachmann ploy should have been left to stand on it’s own, as nothing more than shrewish desperation, used for the express reason as to gain some attention for a very floundering and faltering campaign.

smitch61

Anymore about it from her. It is not a defining issue. Perry has addressed this many times. She is crossing a line she may not understand. She has had no executive experience. She is making herself look stupid.

silentcal2012

Santorum is the one who differentiated substance from procedure. If big government is okay to err on the side of life then all bi government health care policies are justified.

wxguy

The 2012 election is not going to turn on the topic of this HPV issue. It is also going to backfire on those that are overplaying it. After the Orlando debate, my prediction is this will go away.

More troubling for Perry is the topic of immigration reform. That is going to be an even harder needle to thread.

sayoung80913

research his past campaigns and compare and contrast.

oldbird77

Perry?s answer on Climate Change in the prior debate was very bad. He re-affirmed the idea that global warming ?deniers? are uninformed and anti-science. I was very disappointed. I want to like Perry, but I get concerned when I can come up with better answers on the spot then he can.

Christian_Reppie

As a Conservative woman..I think she should drop out of the race…She has caused nothing but dissension..She needs to take a cue from Newt,,,Get your point across without a scorched earth outcome..and that is what she has been doing..

She is trying to play on womans emotions…but she needs to know..that most women no longer vote on their emotions..we are very informed and we know the issues..

I have a 10 year old daughter and yes I got her the HPV vaccine..I also got her all of her baby shots and any vaccine that will protect her…

Scope

who should have dropped out of the race long ago, made sure he got his pile on in there. Yes, he was definitely a shrew also. It’s amazing that some are honored for their desperate searches for relevancy, yet so many are quick to call Perry out because he used some terms like treason, and Ponzi scheme. How many have been warning Perry not to use the Texas method of straight talk, and when he avoids that rhetoric, and avoids coming on to strong, he is a weak candidate who should have fought back.

pttx333

Bachmann and Santorum (who piled on also) blew it forever with me. Particularly Bachmann, though, in that she LIED last night and continues with the BS today! Even Palin piled on last night – I’m done with the lot of them!

pttx333

calling out Huntsman (the weasel) for saying that Perry is guilty of treason. I could not believe my ears! What a smarmy, snide, elitist piece of work ….

Repair_Man_Jack

1) Demand an opportunity to visit with a personnally express his regret to this poor, retarded girl. Assumming, of course, Bachmann has compelling medical evidence that it was, without a doubt, Gardasil that caused the retardation.

2) If Bachmann cannot meet step 1, (I’m assuming Perry’s P(S) = 0.95 on this one.), than Perry announces that this sort of histrionic and dishonest emotion is exactly the sort of charlatan’s trick Barack Obama used to pass the lamentable ObamaCare Bill. Explain further that the AMerican People feel the Presidency has already been demeaned by behavior exactly like that which Bachmann is engaging in on the Gardasil issue.

3) If Bachmann even dares to play the poor victim, ask her if she wants to try that pathetic whinning out on Iranian President Ahmmadinajad. Or, better yet, just say “There’s no crying in baseball, or The White House.”

http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

Not only that, but vaccinations that you are not required to take!

My My but you are a very hysterical person aren’t you.

Scope

should be all we need to know about Bachmann. They are both destroying what was good about the Tea Parties, and not for any good substantive reason, just shrilling for more attention.

oldbird77

I think it was an obvious snark and kinda funny actually.

Scope

But, as others here have pointed out, Blitzer went out of his way to make Perry look bad, with his negative leads ins to the Perry questions. He made Huntsman sound like a rational and reasonable Republican candidate. Granted there were some good substantive questions, but, that doesn’t take away his hit job on Perry. Why, of why, do the Republican candidates continue to go into enemy territory with the debates. If I am not mistaken, most of the rest of debates are also CNN debates.

edintexas

Presumably you are a physician, perhaps even in a urology practice. Absent a practice which is dedicated to cancers of urological/genital origin (obviously such a practice would skew any statistics), how many cases of penile cancer do you see in a year? How many have you seen in your total years of practice?

I’m not making light of such cancers, I’m a little over a year from being declared a Renal Cell Carcinoma “survivor” thanks to lucky early detection.

With 90% of HPV infections being asymptomatic and cured by the infected person’s immune system without medical intervention, and not all of the remainder resulting in cancer, I am somewhat sensitive to the use of terms and “statistics” which are more closely aligned with “scare tactics” than good science and fact.

I see nothing wrong with parents deciding to obtain the immunizations for their daughter(s), but HPV does not rise to the level of a public health threat needing mass immunization. You can’t become infected sitting next to a person in a classroom or on a bus, train or plane. And if the government (state or federal) wants to insure that cost doesn’t prevent poor parent(s) from obtaining the immunization, then it can be mandated for coverage under CHPS and Medicaid, or Merc could even engage in a program helping those who can’t afford the immunizations. Those who can pay for the series of immunizations should not expect others paying for insurance to subsidize their choice for their daughters. I would much rather see the issue come to the fore as a reason for people outside of marriage to engage in “safe sex”. That would be neither engaging the police power of government, nor be restricted to providing protection from only one STD. Note that I don’t recommend sex outside of marriage, but I’m a realist on the issue – it happens.

Scope

The fact that the “conservative women” Palin and Bachmann can come out with their claws bared, and fangs exposed is supposed to now be admirable qualities? Add to that the dishonest charges they have made, Bachmann on the Gardasil issue, and Palin on the Perry crony capitalism because of a measley $5,000 donation, and you have a tempest in a Tea Pot brewing. They embarrass me as a women, and the fact that EE gives high kudos to Bachmann in saying “I told her she kicked Perry’s ass” makes me sad to think that some males think cat fights are a good thing. They were not pretty in high school, and they are especially unappealing among presidential candidates, or wannabe presidential candidates. They make me asshamed for my gender, and they make me puke.

It’s OK pttx. There are far more that have lost respect for Bachmann than there are in support of her baseless attacks. I’m sure you’ve read it around the web as well as I. If she is picking up some of the Ron Paul supporters, as EE claimed, that tells you all you need to know.

I hate to say this but, they are beginning to sound like Debbie Wasserman Shultz.

Kyle-MI

If the Gardasil EO was telling, then why isn’t it also telling the Perry admitted his mistake and rescinded the order before it took effect?

If you are looking for a perfect presidential candidate that has never made a mistake, we will end up with four more year of Obama because such a candidate does not exist.

Common_Cents

It will help him immensely in general if he gets the nomination.

I thought Romney did pretty well last night, showing the differences between Romneycare and Obamacare, if you look at the tape again.

Gingrich got the most enthusiastic applause and was never called on the rest of the night. Everyone seems to love Gingrich but always throws in the “knownfact” of baggage. Sheesh, nobody in America even knows who Gingrich is besides political junkies. Gingrich does need to get out front of the Pelosi deal etc…and surprised it hasn’t really came up yet.

Perry was OK but really fumbled towards the end when getting boooed on the illegal immigration. That is going to be the tough one for Perry, not the HPV issue.

He is against a fence? Let’s take down fences in prisons if they don’t work then. He gave illegals in state tuition, in order to not punish them for their parents sins? Well, what if I was born in Georgia and wanted to go to a TX school, he is going to punish ME and my Parents for being LEGAL?

Hey, I like Perry and think he has great potential to unseat Zero. But, he deserves to get scrutinized just like anyone else.

There are those here defending Perry already, saying, oh, he has been vetted already on X issues, case closed. Huh? That sounds like global warming proponents saying XX scientists agree, case closed. Primaries are for vetting and discussion, there is NO case closed until the freakin nomination. It’s open season on everyone, if you can’t accept that, it makes you look very defensive and insecure.

Perry messed up the HPV thing when he said “but”. He should just have acknowledged that he went about it the wrong way and shut up. When he continued he tried to rationalize it and that is when Bachmann and Santorum jumped on him. Perry wanted his cake and eat it too. He invited the attacks. Yet many here are blaming Bachmann and Santorum. Wrong.

I support nobody in the primary yet, and want to see where things go, what comes up and who perseveres. I would fully support Perry if he wins but I’ll want to see more from him before supporting him in a primary.

I am a bit concerned seeing many conservatives projecting their ideals on Perry this early, almost reminding me of the left projection on the blank canvas of Obama. Now, Perry is much much more accomplished and has a track record, but I’m just seeing this projection element going on.

It will only serve to hurt our cause by ignoring potential weaknesses. I say bring em out, vet them to death so they are mundane by the time the general comes around. That goes for any R candidate in the Primary.

It seems that people who have legit questions about Perry are now starting to get ganged up on, being called names, and pretty soon be accused of antiPerry Bots ala Paulbots.

Speaking of, Paul really pulled the life support plug on his own campaign w/ the blame America spiel and also the let the guy on life support die references. Hey, Paul has some good ideas and has had good influence on the candidates/party but surely not competent for an executive job to carry anything out.

Let’s have a civil fact filled discussion on all candidates to find the best one. I hope the candidates stick to the issues civilly and don’t fall for the LSM trap of trying to get them to attack each other. Gingrich keeps reminding us that the target is Obama, not each other. More R’s/conservatives need to start calling out the media and hold them accountable for a change.

Carry on and let’s wipe the electoral map up with Zero and his disastrous regime.

edintexas

I agree that “herd immunity” is needed for a vaccination program to address the public health threat. It is an article of faith – must be since I supposedly had immunity against Polio from the Salk vaccine, and even more immunity when the Army insisted I had to have the new Sabine vaccine, and even more when the Army insisted I needed a booster of a (IIRC) new and improved oral vaccine. Must work, I never got Polio – which is more than I can say for some of the other kids I knew who contracted Polio before Salk’s vaccine was available.

But HPV isn’t like Polio, is it? You don’t get it playing with other kids in the playground, or other public activities in public areas. If you wish to use the police power of the state to force “herd immunity” to this STI, you are welcome to that opinion and position. Just don’t cloak your wish for government power in the clothes of a public health concern,

By the way, the most recent figures I could find for the incidence of annual new diagnosis of Cervical Cancer was 5.7 per 100,000 women in 2008 with a mortality rate of 1.7 per 100,000 National Cancer Institute International Cancer Screening Network http://appliedresearch.cancer.gov/icsn/cervical/mortality.html ). This is a reduction from 13 per 100,000 in 1975. The mortality rate is primarily due to lax scheduling of, or non-existent, PAP exams.

BA Cyclone

but still somehow managed to fumble. The pointed attack on the topic, particularly the crony capitalist angle seemed to set him on his heels.

He can give an easy, simple answer just as you cite and I think that could win the debate on that topic. That he didn’t persist on that line when pressed is what is troubling. He seemed to give up, as if he didn’t believe in the strength of his argument.

rightwingmom52

When I’m yelling better answers at the TV than the candidate to defend his record, it’s worrisome to say the least. And these debates are going to be like playing softball when the Democrats get their chance to pitch.

Perry may be the frontrunner, but he hasn’t been chosen yet, and he shouldn’t be surprised that people are going to come after him on everything. I also think Perry needs to do a better job of demonstrating how the way he governed Texas will work for the country. I certainly don’t want to make any Texans mad because I have lots of friends and family there, and I love the state, but not everybody thinks it’s the greatest state in the union. In fact, many of us think our own states are pretty good. The bottom line is he’s running for President of the U.S., not Texas.

If you’re from Texas, please don’t shoot the messenger. I’m just pointing out some things I’m beginning to hear from fellow conservatives.

http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

Perry is wrapping himself in the 10th Amendment, just like Romney on Romneycare.

I don’t believe the 10th Amendment is a get-out-of-jail-free card on bad ideas legislated at the state level, not for candidates for POTUS, anyway.

runner12

I also agree with Erick on his assessment of the situation. Someone on Team Perry ought to be taking notes.

The only thing that may actually nullify Perry’s poor answer on this issue last night is Rep. Bachman’s comment regarding Gardasil causing “mental retardation.” I am afraid that she may have totally undone the victory she gained on Perry in this issue last night.

edintexas

Safe sex is not guaranteed to prevent all STDs or pregnancy. But it does a better job of preventing multiple STDs than Gardasil, which can be effective with the 2 HP Viri linked to responsibility for 70% of Cervical Cancers. While HIV is a blood born disease, I don’t think you would argue with the premise that it is primarily transmitted by sexual activity .Hence the popular view of it as an STD. I’m sure with your employment, you are particularly sensitive to the possibility of transfusion transmission, but in the US that hasn’t been a significant source of HIV transmission, particularly with the advent of screening in the industry.

I’m unsure why you would define abstinence thusly: “. abstinence is a lifelong program to avoiding (sic) sexually transmitted diseases…”. I guess you weren’t attempting to define abstinence, the sentence was just structured that way.

I’m mystified as to why anyone would consider Hepatitis only a Sexually Transmitted Disease. A is primarily a food born disease, B can be transmitted through blood or mucous membrane contact with an infected person’s bodily fluid, as can C. The CDC incidence of sexually transmitted C is 15% of cases. Presumably B would have a similar, or lower, incidence by sexual transmission since it appears to have a lower overall incidence.

edintexas

You obviously don’t understand the term “police power”.

acat

we’ll keep seeing things like this.

Every issue that Perry’s getting hit on in the debates came up here first… along with decent replies. Every. Single. One.

It’s embarrassing.

Mew

edintexas

How many Opt Out approvals have there been in Obamacare? It “opt out” is the key, then do you have only a minor quibble with Obamacare?

Texans have a different view of the proper role of government than many.

edintexas

The Legislature did that for him. I guess, technically, since he signed the bill, he did rescind. But that is putting the camel through the eye of the needle.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Delusional arguments that state-mandated vaccines are inherently evil, are so stupid as to be beneath response.

Raven

You may not be aware, but Medicare/Medicaid don’t cover breast cancer in men.

dmacleo

the problem I always had (and this does not affect me) was that the decision defaulted to yes (if I understood it right) UNLESS the parent obtained paperwork to say no.

edintexas

My last comment on the issue. Everything a politician does is important in varying degrees. Perry should not have issued the EO. Having done so, and the people and Legislature having duly chastised him on the issue, he allowed that it was a mistake. Good enough for me. Then, in his first debate appearance, he doubled down. Instead of saying something like “I was mistaken in that decision.”, he essentially used the old Leftie “If it saves one life” argument to justify his decision. Whoops, there’s a mistake. He, and his staff, should have known better than to try that routine. So he opened himself up for more attacks on the issue.

It does matter, just as Dear Leader’s having his political “coming out” party in the living room of Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn mattered – regardless of what the MSM told us (well, Perry’s mistake isn’t on the same level as associating with unrepentant terrorists). Will it prevent his gaining the nomination? All else being equal, no. Should it be considered? Yes, until Perry figures out how to put it away as an issue.

That folks from some other states don’t see the “big deal” about the EO doesn’t surprise me. Texans tend to see the proper role of government somewhat differently than many other US citizens.

conservativecurmudgeon

1) Who the hell is Jon Huntsman? Why do we care about him again?

2) Ron Paul, once again, sounded like that fellow you encounter at the coffee shop who needs to be reminded to take his meds before he engages his latest tirade about Bunker Hunt and the seventeen guys hidden in the bushes on the grassy knoll.

3) Remind me again why we don’t like Newt? I’m getting all dreamy-eyed…

4) Michele Bachmann is one tough customer. I think she needs to learn how to modulate her voice as she becomes passionate, but, I, too, was somewhat impressed by her for not allowing herself to be defined by Rick Perry.

5) … And I say this in all seriousness: I tuned in to specifically watch Governor Perry. I have scarcely heard his voice to this point, and I want to start making evaluations now that so many folks I admire seem to be sold on the man… And, well…
…I found him weak and unctuous through most of the debate. I found him unsteady. I would like to think he needs to ripen as a candidate, but he certainly faded as the debate went along. He was actually quite bad — I don’t easily detect a depth of clarity with him.. Clearly, he’s not all that good on his feet. Many of the amateur Tea Party questioners were more solid than he was.
I REALLY hope he gets better. Fast. Also, how much DOES it cost to buy Governor Perry, if he’s “offended” at $5,000. Are we just haggling over price?

pttx333

look bad. He is just a liberal shill to begin with and will always do his darnedest to make our candidates look like morons – and particularly Perry since he is the apparent front runner.

I agree with you on the debates issue. Maybe I’m just not in-the-know, but WHY are we subjected to the msnbc and cnn tactics? Who decides these things?

Huntsman = rational and reasonable? LOL He is such a joke – he and Paul should form their own party with their far-out loony supporters. The two of them have never and will never pass the smell test with me.

BTW, Scope – I wonder if you and I are identical twins somehow separated at birth? I know there is a vast age difference, but still …

Veronica

“Surely they could have given him some better talking points to use and actually rehearsed how he would respond”

I caught the first debate online and am just past the 2nd half of last night’s debate and went through the immigration portion.

I thought Perry’s answers on immigration were fine. I certainly understood them the way he intended them to be understood.. as a Hispanic Texan coming from the Rio Grande Valley, one of the poorest areas in the nation. It’s home to the University of Texas-Pan American, and so encouraging the children of illegals to enroll and finish and “give back” the area makes sense. Case in point: right now, we’ve got progressive Teach For Ameria-ers from Ivy League schools locking to “teach” poor kids in the area in droves. Who better to teach these kids than educated hispanics from the area? No stats on how many “illegal children” will end up teaching, but the potential is there — we know the college educated typically establish roots and stay in the communities they grew up in.

For Texas, this makes sense — which is how he began his response on Texas, with (something to the effect of): No one has more experience than me on immigration, as a border governor.

I think the punditry may think his problem is delivery, but Perry and his crew may very well know what they’re doing by leaving him appear.. “unpolished.”

I think one of the most appealing thing about Perry is when he talks to the people. He seems like one of us.

Everyone else sounded like an over-eager politician. When these politicians make their deliveries with inflections and near-grunts and jabbing fingers, WOW, how they seem like liars. We expect them to be pulling some wool over our eyes, and it”s our job to figure out the BS.

So .. dunno. This may be his style and he’s seeing if it works outside Texas.

You’d think people were done with fake people, especially Obama.

I mean, put these two in a debate and Perry seems like the antithesis of The Silver-Tongued Orator.

Mitt and Barack together and you’d know you were getting played both ways.

Jim Tomasik

to get his “ass kicked” by all the other candidates in the next debate so he will be the only candidate left with any credibility.

Someone mentioned Rope-A-Dope” the other day. After reading reactions on RedState this morning, it sure doesn’t look like Bachmann has much credibility left.

Perry’s gotta be thinking “Y’all go ahead…throw my in THAT briar patch.”

cwilson

Gardasil protects against several — the most common ones — of the dozen or so HPV viruses. All of the HPV viruses can cause cervical cancer (in women, obviously).

Men can carry HPV.

HPV can be transmitted sexually — but (see below) can also be transmitted in other ways.

HPV is ALSO the cause of Plantar’s warts. I’ve never heard that Plantar’s warts are an STD — thus, one can contract HPV without sexual contact.

So…your virgin daughter can contract HPV from her virgin husband on their wedding night, since hubby once had a plantar’s wart. Or, she could get a Plantar’s wart herself, having forgotten to wear her shower clogs in gym class one day. Then, that could develop into cervical cancer.

Doesn’t this remove the whole “innoculating against an STD” argument? Doesn’t the argument become, at that point, the standard risk-vs-benefit argument similar to any other “normal” childhood vaccine?

pttx333

all right. I, too, am ashamed for my gender, but that is nothing new for me either. I’m once again reminded of being in grade school, then junior high, then high school, blah blah blah, and the silliness of some females and their never-ending cat fights. Even all the years that I worked, there was always a segment of female employees who were forever involved in some gossip-mill type of baloney that was disgusting to me. I never got involved with them, and when someone would try to get me to join in, my standard answer was “I graduated Jr. High a veeeery long time ago.” I have posted on RS more than once that we need a true MAN, honest and with a backbone in order to stop this speeding train to imminent destruction. These hysterical women just don’t cut it and never will.

As you mentioned, I think it has something to do with being conservative – I am a natural-born conservative woman and not easily fooled. You are also a conservative woman, and I know that you are the same. Perhaps those who are in charge should consult with us about female candidates – we can spot a phony “conservative” woman in a short period of time. LOL

Veronica

because we know “innocent little girls” are having sex like there’s no tomorrow.

Does she want to say that sexting is no longer a problem? Does she think we should backtrack on laying the blame on Clinton for redefining oral sex as “no sex”?

Someone should ask her, why did you homeschool?

I guarantee you “I didn’t want my daughter to be influenced or ending up like ‘them’” played into it.

Not everyone has what she thinks are her type of daughters, I’m sorry.

There are kids who end up pregnant (especially in Texas) and end up pregnant or having abortions.

This doesn’t mean they’re evil. They’re young.

“Innocent” or not is a non-issue and she’s branding the kids who’ve “done it” as corrupt whores who are doomed to a life of sexual perversion.

Gardasil is just part of that sad equation. It’s part of reality.

Veronica

is what’s “best for the masses” — and it is.

It saves a life and it leaves diminished mental scarring on mothers.

He’s the Executive of a state and made an executive decision, but these decisions aren’t going to please everyone. It’s our job to let him know, and his job to let it get corrected, or we vote him out of office.

Obama’s tyrannical Executive Ordering is the sort you should be worried about.

Perry’s sits on the opposite spectrum.

Veronica

how long have you been here?

there is no one else, lookout, you’re welcome to sit out, but if you’re absolutely anti-government, you’re welcome to make your own little “planet” on some property buried in a forest somewhere.

Texas allows you to do that .. allow you to feel like an anarchist if you want.

Just don’t do it in my backyard.

Walk into my property with your AK and you’re liable to get shot.

http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

I also understand that if I sign the opt-out, the state has no recourse.

And, since the EO never went into effect, the point is moot anyway.

JSobieski

I think Romneycare was the only alternative to something far worse.

Instead, he praises Romneycare.

Big Difference.

Danielle Davis (ocleverone)

I found her over-zealousness contrived and frankly, a bit insulting of the common folks parenting skills. It came off as a rehearsed cross of a Palin mama grizzly and I am smarter than you attitude. I didn’t appreciate it at all.

Our 15 year old son went in for his sports physical a couple of months ago and his doctor recommended the Gardisil vaccination. The first thing, as a regular, normal parent, I peppered him with questions. Where can I find the studies? Which groups are recommending this vaccination for boys? Side effects? How long has this been on the market, etc. He gave me as much information as he had on it and since then, my husband and I are researching whether or not this is something that should be done.

It’s not that we are anti-vaccine (all but this one including the Hep vaccine have been given) but as regular normal parents, we want to make sure the vaccine is indeed warranted.

I don’t need Michele Bachmann fear mongering to score political points.

Danielle Davis (ocleverone)

We are still researching it.

Uma Richie

(My source is the NY State Health Department http://www.health.state.ny.us/prevention/immunization/human_papillomavirus/)

There are 120 strains of HPV.
35 of the 120 strains affect the genital area.

The HPV strains that cause foot warts are not the same strains that cause cervical cancer.

Last I heard, the HPV vaccines target only 4 strains: The 2 strains that cause 90 percent of cervical warts, and the 2 strains that cause 70 percent of cervical cancer cases.

Does this help?

streiff

but 80% of American women will have HPV by age 50.

have you been tested?

streiff

are you saying he has been prepared for the last two debates? Because that is what you are saying if you disagree. That assertion would make me cry for your lost sanity.

audax

I said it isn’t an issue that will determine who I will support for President. Then, I gave a whole list of issues that were important to me. Please read it again because your puttin’ words in my mouth that just ain;t there.

http://www.lookoutkokomo.com lookoutkokomo

You think the federal government should be involved in the public schools?

Good intentions… I know.

bloggb

I think one of the most appealing thing about Perry is when he talks to the people. He seems like one of us.

Everyone else sounded like an over-eager politician.

Yeah… zactly!

Perry was the only one who wasn’t trying to leap frog over his microphone into the audience.

bloggb

We have them all over the place here (georgia), and you can get into see a doctor without an appointment anytime. If you don’t have insurance, it’s typically around $75 for the first visit, and $65 for subsequent visits.

Mike Ferguson

It should have been more along the line of Abstinence is not having sex, therefore it is 100% effective in preventing STD’s.

Yes, popular understanding of HIV and Hepatitis are that they are STD’s, that’s why I brought them up to help clarify the difference.

I understand what you are saying about the Gardasil, but it is not a good comparison with Safe Sex Practices since it was never meant to prevent more than HPV.

Yes, most of the disease I discussed are transmitted sexually, however, I think it is important to note the difference between diseases such as HIV, HBV, and HCV which have more than one method of contagion verses a disease such as HPV which falls into the realm of purely sexual transmission.

Actually, just for information purposes, Hep B has a much higher sexual transmission rate than Hep C. That 15% of sexual transmission by Hep C, is actually assumed if you read the studies. They have never actually documented a case of sexual transmission that I have ever read. But since it is impossible and irresponsible to say that there is no way that Hep C could be transmitted sexually the go with the 15% assumption, because it never hurts to be safe. Also, since Hep C is the number one blood born infection in the U.S. so if you look at the incidence numbers side by side Hep B outstrips Hep C in sexual transmission by quite a bit.

As a Nurse, I am very in favor of all those who are able to get the Gardisil injections to do so at their earliest convenience.

I would also expect this to become part of the standard vaccinations in the not to distant future. Hep B was added to standard vaccination practices because of its very high mortality rate, not to mention the severe long term medical conditions that can happen with this infection. I also believe that it was added to the standard vaccinations because some very high profile people contracted Hep B and it got a lot of press.

Lastly I didn’t mean to beat anyone over the head with my CV, just with somethings it helps to let people know that you do know what you are talking about, keeps the trolls under the bridge and off of the comments, lol.

God Bless
Mike

bloggb

>>It was also interesting that Blitzer directed the question on the Fair Tax only to Cain and then ran away from any further discussion.

You’re right, this question needed it’s own level of debate from all the candidates, not just Cain. I was very disappointed (and utterly Shocked) that Blitzer let the issue fall on it’s face right there!

This morning, Bachmann was on the radio with Neal Boortz, and he basically asked her the same question. I figured she would have been totally on board with this but no, she dodged the issue with her typical rhetoric and platitudes to alternatives to our tax system – ie no commitment.

Perhaps she just doesn’t know anything about it.

bloggb

Bad temper?check
mean-spirited?check
woman?.check
mouse-like long-snouted mammal… check

Oh sorry, I’m going overboard. But this is what she was last night!

bloggb

throughout most of the debate it seems, and I wish he’d close his friggin mouth whenever they ask him a question (or cover his teeth at least) – he looks like he’s gonna have a heart attack and keel over any second.

bloggb

n/t.

http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

Unfortunately, there’s that pesky US citizen requirement thingy. I don’t think the Constitution implies life.

acat

hat tip sweasel.com

Mew

pttx333

In fact, I will elaborate further by saying that Palin and Bachmann have proven to me that they are not ladies. One can be a good and strong leader yet remain a lady. Thatcher, in particular, is a very good example. I see no such qualities in the aforementioned females.

bloggb

Cause Huntsman has been snorting too much of that tea they grow in China.

ATG

Although I think you were a tad too nice, IMO Bachmann came across as a nut job about vaccination, accused him of basically being on the take, uninformed and pretty much just making crap up.

As far as Erick saying she kicked his ass on it, well I’m not really going to get into that much since any endorsement of her position is not flattering on the endorser.

Oh and Erick, since you have mentioned repeatedly that the policy never went into effect, your “if Perry can show that no one had the injection” bit seems a bit odd. If he can show no one was harmed by a policy that never happened is kinda like the Obama saved or created stuff we have all laughed at.

For a long time I’ve applauded Bachmann’s outspoken and feisty approach to things but right now I’d be happy if a sane person were to primary her before her mouth does more damage to the cause.

RS

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HPV and Why It Matters

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