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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

No Girls Were Harmed During the Production of This Executive Order

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  September 13th, 2011 at 11:23 AM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

From Ben Domenech’s most excellent Transom comes this, backing up what I think ends this as an issue for Perry:

The attacks on Perry’s HPV vaccine actions five years ago have now taken up roughly 15 minutes in both the MSNBC debate and the CNN debate. Perry’s message on this has been straightforward: that he made a mistake on the way he did the approach, that he’d approach it differently if he could do it over again, and that he listened to opponents and took his chiding from the legislature. He’s defensive about the fact that he did add a parental opt-out (Santorum’s assertion that all vaccines should be opt-in indicates that he has zero understanding of herd immunity), but that’s the rule for all of Texas.

But here’s the real reason this is a silly debate: the policy never went into effect. Not one girl was vaccinated under the policy. Not one shot was given. Demanding apologies from Perry for a policy that never went into effect gets tiresome after a while – particularly when Mitt Romney has never apologized for his namesake health care reforms, in effect in Massachusetts still today.

Now, you can still say that Perry shouldn’t have done it, but the attacks diminish when, in fact, no one was affected by a policy then undone — compare that to Romneycare.

More so, Michele Bachmann today has crossed a line she should not have crossed in expanding the attack — going anti-vaccine. The “morning after pill” comparison last night has people riled up too. I missed that comment last night.

Bachmann claims the vaccine causes mental retardation, which is not only factually not true, but also puts her into a fringe category of anti-vaccine crusaders convinced of links to autism and other ills that again and again again major studies show are baseless.

In other words, in twelve hours, Michele Bachmann went from a serious win on an issue to, as of 11:23 a.m. this morning, crossing a line that loses her real credibility.

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COMMENTS

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  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    They say that girls would have been “forced” to get the vaccine. Not true. Even under Perry’s exec order, there was an “opt out”, i.e. no one would have been forced to get the shot.

  • Duke

    I usually reserve the liberal use (not to be confused with Progressive use) of the ‘mute’ button to President Downgrade, but last night I watched Gov. Palin on Greta’s show and, gawd man…, I can’t take it anymore. Both the esteemed Governor and Deer-in-the-Headlights Bachmann sound more and more everyday like they’re running for Captain of the Cheerleading Squad. I MUST hit the anti-stress button on the remote for either of them.

    Perry needs to be wary (is there a campaign slogan in there somewhere) of Romney, however. The purveyor of government health care in MA is a well-practiced, slick east coast politico, who’s been drilling at not losing again for the past three years or so. Perry is coming across as too much of a West Texas Cowboy. I happen to like West Texas Cowboys and how they thiink, but I’m afraid he’s being talked to death by a slick silver-tongued devil!

  • Duke

    Perry missed a golden opportunity to end the debate last night regarding vaccinationgate: “Ms. Bachmann – I take it you DO realize that my Exec. Order was never implemented, and there were NO “innocent 12-year old girls” actually vaccinated, don’t you? I guess that turns your central debate issue into little more than what we call down in Texas, politcal clap-trap. And now, can we get an apology from Gov. Romney for all the innocent little 12-year old girls who are, even as we speak, still being vaccinated undere Romneycare?”

  • bk

    She won’t say anything different than what Bachmann does apparently, and at least it will liven things up and make it more tv-friendly.

  • pdawk

    the name of the site should be changed from RedState to RickState. Any criticism of Rick is now deemed unfair, silly and should be ignored.

    The guy legislated from the executive position to force an innoculation on 12 year old girls for a disease that is transmitted sexually. Thank God the legislature quickly put him in his place.

    Let’s not causually skip over the fact that his former chief of staff was the lobbyist for Merck or that his (at the time) current chief of staff also had a big time conflict on this issue. This is an article from the time period where he issued the order. This wasn’t a one way hit job by an opponent, but rather a outline of why this entire issue just doesn’t pass the smell test.

    http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/5546651.html

    By the way, you can’t just let the government know you aren’t going to take part, you have to fill out an affidavit giving a reason why you object on religious or philosophical grounds. People gloss over opt-out like you can just passively jump over the paperwork and hassle.

  • CMaree

    on vaccinations, whether an order was given or not, as it was never made a statute in Texas.

    I wonder. Has Congressman Bachmann has ever railed against Minnesota’s Statute mandating Hepatitis B vaccinations during her term in the State House? No parental consent is required in this statute.

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    with Perry in these debates now.

  • nepanyrush

    Too much time and vitrolic attacks on an executive order that Perry apologized for and that was never implemented. But this is a major issue we have known about for a while. It is the first that I have heard, reading this site, that it was never implemented. How did Perry miss this golden opportunity to make that point? It concerns me that he never brought this up. His rebuttal of the conflict of interest was also weak.

    But Bachmann has completely lost me now. I was a big fan of her and enjoyed watching her in these debates. But she gave a misleading impression of Perry’s action, making it seem as if mandatory without an opt-out, and then later tying the vaccine to mental retardation. I went from a fan and hoping she were the VP to just wanting her out of the race.

    Santorum was strong on the issue, but I really feel he is consistently principled in his answers. What make something that is spread through sexual transmission mandatory as opposed to mandating vaccines that protect the students generally from outbreaks.He also mentioned that there was an opt-out. He has no chance of winning, but I enjoy his principled views.

    The debates are good in that they are preparing the canidates. But if only Perry, and earlier Romney, get piled on, then the other candidates are not getting vetted. They might as well exit the stage if they are only there to blungeon the others.

  • Scope

    is exactly and precisely what they now sound like. Thank you God they will now fade onto the political ash heap. So much for those “strong conservative women”, who are acting like some of the most hated women Pelosi and Debbie Blabbermouth Shultz.

  • acat

    ’nuff said.

    Mew

  • sayoung80913

    at the time my daughter got it ,2007(?) we could opt out. granted this was on base at a military hospital and may have been under different rules, but I signed a release stating that I did not want my daughter to have it at the time until I could research it further,which I did and brought her back later for the sets. The doctor didn’t even bat an eyelash, just had the nurse bring me a release form, I signed it, and we left. Easy Peasy. Perry’s EO would almost certainly played out the same way and everyone knew they had to mandate it-with an opt out-so insurance would cover it- I heard it was somewhere around $300 plus dollars so a lot of people probably would have passed otherwise.

  • powertothepeople

    that Bachmann has led herself out into left field. It all started shortly after Perry entered the race in Iowa where she refused to meet people, stayed in her trailer, missed the first call to stage, and so on.

    I agree she is playing like Ron Paul with this whole vaccine issue, but…

    Perry had to know this type of behavior was coming and if we think the “attacks” that his fellow republicans are bringing against him are way over the top, just wait till Obama and Perry go head to head. It will be the first time you see the left claim they are against government mandates and Obama will constantly attack and stretch the truth (lie) a hundred times worse than what we have seen so far.

    When Perry got in he knew some of his past bad decisions would be brought to the surface. He knew and I am sure he is ready. The pile on happening right now is good training for what is coming when he gets to the real race to fire Obama.

  • streiff

    1. Hepatitis B vaccine is mandatory and no one cares.

    2. I don’t like cancer so a vaccine that reduces it has an appeal. YMMV.

    3. Funny everyone keeps bringing this up without mentioning there are two HPV vaccines and there is no allegation that there was an ethics violation here.

    Sorry that upholding your rights takes work. Where should we send your nanny?

  • lizabtha

    That’s real tough, filling out the opt-out clause. If you feel that strongly about any vaccine, but you haven’t the wherewithal to type a few lines, well, you probably should give up your parenting credentials.

    https://webds.dshs.state.tx.us/immco/affidavit.shtm

  • bk

  • Common_Cents

    He starts out great, saying he went about it the wrong way. Then he puts his foot in his mouth saying “but” and rationalizing because he hates cancer. Gee, who doesn’t?

    Perry, apologize, and shut up. Period. Stick to your guns. That’s all he needs to do and he takes the wind right out of the opposition sails.

    As a potential supporter of Perry, ecstatic that he is in, especially the governor part, but he needs to polish up a bit.

    I’m a little confused about this diary and the other one where it was said HPV matters and it hurt him.

    Anyway, this issue is not perry’s toughest, it’s going to be illegal immigration where he got booed.

    He needs to go through the ringer like anyone else, its better to be beat up a bit and vetted in primary rather than coasting into the general unprepared.

  • sayoung80913

    I never thought I would say this about these two women. I always had the utmost respect for Bachmann,heard she was deeply religious, and fought for what she thought was best. Unfortunately, she either knowingly lied or didn’t research enough to know that she lied. Both scenarios are very bad. One points to a calculated politician and the other speaks to incompetence and the willingness to smear without having proof. What if someone in the media actually tracks down this mother who said her daughter had become retarded-if she even exists? What if she is proven to be a quack or worse,a complete fabrication? How can this woman claim that Perry’s FORCED use of gardisil caused her daughter to become retarded? His EO was never implemented, so that means if this woman exists-she CHOSE to get her daughter the vaccine. Bachmann is in way over her head on this issue-one she surely thought was her best. first mediscaring now vacciscaring? Palin jumped right on board,perhaps not knowing about the whole retardation thing and now has hitched her wagon to a dead horse. The “it’s all about ME,will she or won’t she ” sideshow has completely turned me off. I donated a ton of money,watched her t.v. show,bought and read her books and even watched her movie,along with traveling to D.c. to hear her speech-no more of that and should she back a candidate, I doubt it will have any impact on me at all. Sad

  • ajdx3

    diminish your argument by doing so. It’s not whether the policy ever went in to effect or not that is the issue, it’s the fact that Perry actually promoted a big government intrusive policy that is against what every conservative should stand for. You cannot defend the indefensible, which is why Perry had to admit last night that it was a mistake. Sure, he says the “mistake” was not going to the Legislature. No sir, the mistake was promoting a policy whereby the Government was mandating that my child and yours be injected with a substance that had no justification (and the “opt out” doesn’t save him either, as Mr. Santorum pointed out). When it comes to our children, it should be a “hand’s off” in terms of government intrusions.

  • red_oakster

    Bachmann will implode now. That’s good news for Perry …unless Palin gets in. Bachmann’s collapse creates a vacuum.

  • gregorysstewart

    Perry really needs to step up his performance at these debates. Bachmann was asking why this was not an “Opt In” program, and yet I am certain she knows why.

    As an Opt In, Insurance companies would not have to pay for the vaccination and it would become a program for the well to do, and leave the poor to fend for themselves. As an Opt Out, everyone could be covered.

    Secondly, Bachmann tried to explain that parents would not have any idea that they could Opt Out. That sounds mighty Democratic Michele. Conservatives believe that an individual adult is informed, and acts in their own best interest, without Big Government assuming they are sheep.

  • gekster

    Whooping cough. Chicken Pox.
    Any of these?

  • Bill S

    embracing the anti-vaccy crazy also, then?

    Marvelous.

    Just remember, folks, not everything the government does is bad. We are not libertarians and/or anarchists. Sometimes the government does good things. While this one is up for some debate, it is NOT a cut/dried bad thing.

  • snowshooze

    You condensed it well enough.
    The opt out was so easy to obtain, all you had do was make the request. It would be issued without question.
    Michele was ranting. That is all I heard from her on this topic.

  • http://teapartisan.wordpress.com Loren Heal

    Why make it mandatory in the first place, if you’re going to have an opt out?

    AceofSpades points out that insurance will pay if it’s mandatory, but that opens another problem: a government mandate that insurance would pay for, instead of government paying it.

    But the problem is that is sets up this bureaucratic hurdle people wishing not to be vaccinated — for reasons they absolutely do not have to justify — must leap in order to not to be. It places the burden on the citizen to remain free.

    Further, Ben’s argument that this is all vapor because it was never really implemented and Perry apologized for his mistake misses the key point to it all, and the sole reason to pay attention to the issue: is this how Perry thinks?

    Because what happens the next time there is an issue placed before him where he has to choose between protecting people and protecting liberty?

    Perry does appear to have a strong love of the 10th Amendment. That’s good. I’m interested in finding out which is really stronger: his fear of trampling on liberty (both for states and for 12-year-olds), or his desire to save people from harm.

    It’s that decision-making process we need to uncover, not any of the particulars of the Gardasil case.

  • JSobieski

    The idea that the “opt out” is irrelevant is silly. There are many things schools do that require to get an opt out to get out of. Sex education is but one prominent example.

    Would you prefer there be no opt out for sex ed? Is that a fig leaf, or a means of protecting liberty and addressing certain inherent tradeoffs.

    What I am interested in is seeing how Bachmann could have balanced the budget in 2011 (the factual premise of her no debt ceiling increase position).

    I am interested in knowing what Bachmann’s plan was.

    I am interested in knowing if ANY plan by any person in DC actually provided a result that made increasing the debt ceiling increase unnecessary.

    I am interested how Bachmman manages to talk such a big tea party game without backing it up with any kind of plan.

    Legislators vote yes or no, executives have to lead and make decisions that inherently involve tradeoffs.

  • runner12

    Let me preface this by saying I think Perry was absolutely wrong on the Gardasil thing. But to say that other vaccines that are communicable diseases should not be required may, in fact, violate my rights.

    For instance, if you refuse to vaccinate your child with the MMR booster, you pose a threat to my child at school, the grocery store, etc.. Additionally, if you refuse to vaccinate your child and I am bound my profession to treat your child, you are putting me at risk.

    I might also add that many, if not all states, allow for an opt-out of vaccines for religious reasons.

    On a side note, it is ironic how far we have come regarding our attitudes towards vaccines/injections since Pasteur. The hint that he may have developed a cure for rabies by utilizing the strains drove people from as far as Russia to beg him to experiment with their children who had been infected. These parents would do anything to save their children from such a vile death. We should be grateful that certain death from those diseases are only relics of the past to us.

  • Jack_Savage

    First of all, as the father of three daughters, we did a little research into the Gardasil vaccine. Perry was exactly right to recognize this as a huge public health issue because it is. The effects are now being felt as cancer caused by the HPV virus begins to show up more and more.

    As a result of the research we did, all our girls had the vaccine (as a side note, it is not just one shot, but three over the course of a few months.) We were aware of the safety issues but given all the information, it was a no-brainer. I would have chafed at a directive from the government, but would have come to the same decision regardless. And believe me, when it comes to my kids, if I feel like we need to opt out then, by God, we will opt out. Period.

    Politically, the hint of an anti-vaccine stance that Bachmann may not have meant, but that everyone heard, will be debilitating to her. It plays into the media narrative of Bachmann as fringe and slightly nutty, even though I get her point.

    In my view, Bachmann has just torpedoed her campaign, and this issue actually makes Perry more electable.

  • http://teapartisan.wordpress.com Loren Heal

    You’re saying that the onus should be on the citizen to remain free.

    OK, if that’s what Perry thinks.

  • JSobieski

    If this is his most “big government” infraction, his record is even better than Reagan’s. Remember that Reagan signed an abortion bill that he later regretted.

  • septembergurl

    The whole issue here is about Perry’s decision-making. It’s also about how he deals with criticism of that decision-making.

    First of all, it was a very bad decision, one which, I believe, no one else on the stage would have made (for a variety of reasons, ideology, governing style, caution, etc).

    Perry then explains that emotion drove his decision, as if that’s a good excuse. Because isn’t that we want in our President? The supreme excutive, who makes dozens of decisions every day, big and small, that affect hundreds of millions of people, to be guided by emotion?

    Actually, we want the opposite. We want to know that the President in the course of his life, has gained the self-mastery to be able to put normal human emotional engagement — empathy, anger, passion, etc — aside when making decisions.

    He is even worse on immigration. He defends the Dream Act he signed — in an audience of Tea Partiers!– by saying that both parties supported it in the legislature. Right.

    It’s not like the split between elites (government, both parties, business an the media) and the people first appeared during the attempt by Bush, McCain and Democraps in Congress to ram thru an immigrant amnesty bill in the secodn Bush term.! That’s what started the Tea Party!

    Perry is on the side of the elites vs the people and he doesn’t even know it.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Um, yeah. Isn’t that one of the main points of the Precinct Project as well?

  • Veronica

    Paid-for Palin and Bad-Byte Bachmann need to go.

    I don’t want either of these women to be my president.

    Makes me cringe to think of what funny ideas they have floating around in their heads about Putin, Assad and the Taliban.

  • JSobieski

    There are already lots of opt-out policies implemented through schools. Until you start a nationwide movement to end such infringements, I question your sincerity.

  • dagnyt

    I’m getting sick of the focus on vaccines that never actually happened instead of Obama’s policies.

    I don’t think the Republican candidates are doing themselves any good.

    On the vaccine issue, would it be ok if the vaccine was administered to girls at age 2? Are people really thinking that getting that shot makes kids have sex more quickly?

    Wondering why it wouldn’t be a potent reminder that sex has consequences and a few shots that might sting are the least of the problems that unprotected / irresponsible behavior can bring you.

    The lesson of what HPV can bring on might be very useful in terms of prevention.

    “The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has reported that as many as 80 percent of women ? and 50 percent of men and women combined ? will get a type of genital HPV at some point in their lives. ”
    http://www.thehpvtest.com/about-hpv/hpv-faqs/?LanguageCheck=1

  • sayoung80913

    Looks like “crony capitalism” isn’t limited to only Perry-http://www.ace.mu.nu/

  • ajdx3

    and if I decide not to have my child vaccinated for certain communicable diseases, he/she does not go to public school. But government does not get to innoculate my child against any and all diseases just because it’s the government.

  • sayoung80913

    She accused Perry of crony capitalism last night but forgot to mention that she aslo took money from the federal government for Gardisil implementation. Did she forget? This is a HUGE gaffe.

  • ajdx3

    for not blindly drinking the Perry-aid.

  • lizabtha

    http://www.hss.state.ak.us/press/2007/pr053107fed-funding-hpv-vax.htm

  • colonelflagg

    The order shows how Perry thinks. He turns to the state first.

    Such an argument could be shot down in flames by simply saying “This isn’t about Governor Romney’s attempt at statism, Governor Perry. It’s about yours.”

    And I don’t buy the ‘opt-out’ argument either. Supposedly done for insurance purposes — which means you and I get to pay for sexual promiscuity in Texas. Isn’t that charming?

    Contrary to Mr. Erickson’s belief, the Gardasil issue isn’t going away for Perry. It’s only just getting started. Wait until the liberal “we control our bodies” crowd gets a hold of him.

  • acat

    For a cell to become cancerous, it needs two mutations – the cell-proliferation gene needs to go into overdrive, and the tumor-suppression gene that acts as a check on over-proliferation would have to be damaged.

    This damage can be caused by a number of factors – carcinogens like exposure to gamma radiation or asbestos cause cancerogenesis, the double-mutation I described above, but certain viruses can also cause this, among them HPV and hepatitis B. The first sarcoma-linked virus was found back in 1910.

    You’re welcome to not innoculate your child, just keep it the {pock} away from me and mine.

    Mew

  • http://teapartisan.wordpress.com Loren Heal

    But that doesn’t mean I want to elect politicians who will make it more difficult to do so.

  • acat

    and do not ask me to pay one thin dime for any damage to your child caused by your ignorant choices.

    This relates directly to Texas, where the population most likely to develop HPV-related cancers are those also served by the States’ public health system.

    Gardasil is a heck of a lot cheaper than treating cancer.

    Mew

  • Veronica

    Rick is saved, from the Palinistas, at least.

    Sarah is the biggest crony-ist I know, because she’s rubbed elbows with and propped herself up as The Crony everyone needs to be knighted by to think they have a prayer in politics.

    I’m sick of these paid pundits. They’re paid to take positions, and in my opinion, don’t have the spirit of “we the people” to truly be taken seriously.

    I think her followers are mistaking her for the Virgin Mary.

  • Finrod

    That’s the bigger point that’s being lost in the whole kerfuffle about opt-out et al. Perry’s former chief of staff had gone to work for the drug company that was going to be providing Gardisil to Texas.

    Providing something and requiring it are two different things as well. This is all smoke and no fire as far as Palin goes.

  • http://teapartisan.wordpress.com Loren Heal

    is noted. You’re saying that unless I battle every loss of a little freedom with equal vigor, I should accept all of them? Because as you say, we’re not beaten or chained.

    Do I have that right?

    If so, that’s called tu quoque, and I have to say I haven’t seen it tried in a while.

  • Aaron Gardner

    The truth is, he didn’t. The truth is, he allowed an easy opt out for anyone who didn’t want to have the vaccine. The truth is, he attempted to lower the cost of a life saving drug.

    I find it troubling that so many seem to think that their liberty is infringed by others being able to avoid the horror of cervical, or penile, cancer.

    What I see is a bunch of people who I usually respect acting like reactionaries.

    I also don’t hear these same people calling out Palin for accepting federal monies for Gardasil when she was the governor of Alaska.

    I also don’t hear these same people calling out Bachmann for comparing a cancer preventing drug to “the abortion pill”.

    I also don’t hear these same people going off on Bachmann for doing nothing to repeal the mandate in MN for Hep B vaccinations which didn’t even need parental consent.

    Until I do, I will continue to reject the liberty and judgment argument from those who are attacking Perry.

  • Change Jar Conservative

    Yeah… I know, they have problems too.

    I think that:

    Bachmann has jumped the shark,
    Gingrich is too in love with government solutions(AGW),
    Romney is too in love with government solutions (Romneycare),
    Huntsman is a Democrat,
    Perry is weak on Illegal Immigration (against E-verify, etc),
    Cain is too gaffe prone and inexperienced,
    Paul is a loon,
    Palin is unelectable.

  • JSobieski

    Vaccines are given every day on an opt-out basis. Sex ed is opt-out in most school districts. With the exception of this issue, have you ever spoken out on the issue of opt-out vaccines?

    I have every reason to suspect that your outrage is selective.

  • JSobieski

    jump on the Daniel’s bandwagon?

  • APA Guy

    The guy is openly discussing entitlement reform, which is the key to fundamental budget reform and strengthening our economy and dollar. He supports conservative tax reform. On all matters economic, he is king among these candidates – and the economy stands to be the chief election issue in 2012.

    Imagine for a moment that a Republican congress sends legislation to Perry’s desk strengthening the U.S position against illegal immigration. Do you imagine for a second that he wouldn’t sign it?

    We can’t afford to be issuu voters this time around. We need the best conservative who can pound Obama into dust, and that person is Rick Perry.

  • APA Guy

    The guy is openly discussing entitlement reform, which is the key to fundamental budget reform and strengthening our economy and dollar. He supports conservative tax reform. On all matters economic, he is king among these candidates – and the economy stands to be the chief election issue in 2012.

    Imagine for a moment that a Republican congress sends legislation to Perry’s desk strengthening the U.S position against illegal immigration. Do you imagine for a second that he wouldn’t sign it?

    We can’t afford to be issuu voters this time around. We need the best conservative who can pound Obama into dust, and that person is Rick Perry.

  • Tbone

    Standing next to Perry? Yep, that would work.

  • APA Guy

    nt

  • Change Jar Conservative

    Aren’t these three of the biggest issues that Republicans and conservative Independents agree on?

    We can’t find one person with those views and someone who can fund raise to some degree?

    Sigh …

  • Change Jar Conservative

    By far.

  • acat

    He’s definitely small government, he’s from a border state so gotta have some positions on illegals, and entitlement reform goes hand and glove with smaller government.

    Mew

    (removes tongue from cheek)

  • Change Jar Conservative

    Johnson’s so far off my radar that I didn’t even THINK of him at all.

    Sigh … I guess I’m stuck with Perry at this point… was hoping to have someone I *liked* and could *fully support*, but that doesn’t appear likely.

  • acat

    I’m also supporting Perry at this point… and I also don’t like all of his views.

    The problem with selecting a president is that we insist these people be good candidates first … and we’re losing out on some very talented folks who are just lousy candidates as a result.

    Mew

  • aesthete

    …

  • pttx333

    ,,,

  • aesthete

    to some extent, and cancer isn’t communicable. Unless you’re prepared to ban just about anything that makes up modern life, you’re going to be exposed to some level of carcinogens — and I’m OK with that risk. It’s arbitrary to ban some carcinogens, or compel something of others when it has to do with a small effect on cancer, given how many things have an effect on various forms of cancer.

  • acat

    HPV and Hep-B both cause the double mutation necessary to trigger carcinogenesis, and both are contagious.

    Let me give you another example. Would you object to me walking around your neighborhood with a gamma radiation source?

    Mew

  • aesthete

    but my understanding is that the medical knowledge on this issue is 1) relatively recent and 2) developing. The medical establishment has been researching the effects of secondhand smoke on others for decades, and there’s still not a clear answer beyond “it’s not good”. Forgive me if I don’t jump on board a government initiative based on very recent and still-changing science, just because Perry said it was a good idea.

  • acat

    sarcoma-related virus was found back around 1910. Viruses causing cancer is not “new science”. The links between HPV and cancer or Hep-B and cancer are solid enough for me to seek a vaccination.

    Like I said above, I’m fine with you making a choice for your offspring, but please keep them away from mine, and don’t ask me to subsidize them, should they become ill due to something that you rejected.

    Fair enough?

    Mew

  • Mike Ferguson

    is that in my experience as a Nurse, when there is an opt out option for any kind of vaccination or procedure, that option is made VERY clear to the patient or guardian and they are usually made to sign something saying they chose not to receive the service. So not only was it an option there would have been paperwork to support the person opting out.

  • runner12

    cancer is not communicable, but HPV is. That is NOT to say that I agree with Perry on his position on this one. Mainly because of the differences that exist between the way HPV is communicated versus the way measles is.

    I share your concern regarding government intrusion and in this situation our government actually worked. The people protested and the law never went into effect.

  • acat

    HPV isn’t the only transmissible carcinogenic virus or bacteria, there are many others. Hepatitis-B has been brought up already. The new part about Gardasil is the vaccination, not the virus.

    Yes, it’s disturbing to think about vaccinating young girls for an STD, but .. the alternative is an increased percentage of women will contract cervical cancer later in life.

    Yes, government reacted properly in this case, and Perry has admitted it.

    That said, it would not surprise this cat to see the exact conclusion Perry reached – mandatory vaccinations with an opt-out – as a requirement in most States within a decade.

    Mew

  • http://pocketchangeproductions.net/ anotherindyfilmguy

    Especially when they lie in the face of faces and double down on the lies when they should be smart enough to realize that in this golden information age we live in the truth will come out rapidly.

    At some of them are self destructing way before the primaries…

    If they are going to act like democrats/the left regarding the truth, such as omitting that the policy had an opt out clause/did not go into effect etc then they deserve being pilloried and watching their funding drop to nil as the object of the pile on gets even more momentum out of the whole deal.

  • http://pocketchangeproductions.net/ anotherindyfilmguy

    “lie in the face of facts” etc…

  • kywrite

    It’s not just a genital-genital or genital-oral thing; if a kid bites another kid, for instance, he could pass Hep-B. And Hep-B has been pretty well studied and proven to work well with minimal risk. HPV is exclusively sexually transmitted or, rarely, transmitted at birth. It is 95% effective and usually lasts throughout a lifetime

    Gardasil, at the time Perry signed his order at least, was nearly untested in young girls. It was an in-vitro experiment. Gardasil and the other vaccine are also both only about 70% effective at preventing cancer, and both are expensive vaccines that must be repeated after about a decade.

    They really can’t be directly compared, in other words.

  • 4thegreatergood

    You are right; the cost of this vaccine against CANCER would cost $300 and the insurance companies would not cover the cost. However, if Perry could get it as a “required” vaccine, then the insurance companies would have to cover it as a well-visit cost. This wouild make it “available” for everyone. There was always an opt out: with no strings: simply I don’t want it would suffice. There was no requirement to deny the vaccine based on specified or “allowable” reasons. I have no idea why Perry can’t defend himself on this issue. It is pretty straightforward. Can anyone explain the landmines he is avoiding by stumbling through this?

  • blarman

    “But here?s the real reason this is a silly debate: the policy never went into effect. Not one girl was vaccinated under the policy. Not one shot was given. Demanding apologies from Perry for a policy that never went into effect gets tiresome after a while ? particularly when Mitt Romney has never apologized for his namesake health care reforms, in effect in Massachusetts still today.”

    Mitt Romney’s policy failures are his own just as Perry’s are his. You can’t cry foul about complaining about Perry’s mistakes because of anything Romney did. That’s called a “guilt by association” fallacy.

    I don’t agree with Romney’s healthcare policy. I don’t agree with Perry’s mandatory vaccination policy – regardless of whether or not it went into effect. It was a policy decision that deserves to come under scrutiny, and you are foolish to try and defend him for it.

  • msjallen

    I like your comments. I think the same way you do.
    Perry reminds me of Reagan, down to earth yet knowledgable about our Nation’s needs.

  • blarman

    well put.

  • msjallen

    through cancer. I know, been there, done that. So I understand why Perry thought the vaccine was for a good cause. I would rather have the vaccine instead of cancer anytime.
    My two oldest granddaughters had to have it here in CA where it is mandatory by the (evil progressive) government. There were no reactions and they are just fine.
    Remember the aspirin bottle problem when ONE child took too many and they had to start putting safety caps on ALL medications? There are going to be some girls that are going to have a reaction but that does not mean the vaccine is not good.
    Perry knows how to stand up for what he believes and more power to him.