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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

The Perry Problem and the Romney Alternative

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  September 23rd, 2011 at 02:36 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

Rick Perry is a horrible debater. If you did not think so before last night, you must now concede the point.

Reading through the book about Dave Carney and Perry’s eggheads, the Perry camp concluded that debates really are not that impactful. Perry has not had a debate since 2005 2010 (corrected. Perry had two primary debates in 2010, but otherwise has refused debates with Democratic opponents since 2005) and, I am told, is simply not a good debater — staff and prep have nothing to do with it.

But in this cycle, we have just concluded the third of five debates in a row. The debates have become the best way to introduce the candidates to the largest possible audience of GOP voters at one time without spending gobs of money. Consequently, while debates may not have a typically large impact, they are having an impact right now. It is reflected in Perry’s poll numbers drifting downward.

At the same time, there are a lot of people who still crave an alternative to Mitt Romney. Romney, for all his attacks on Rick Perry and social security, is doing himself no favors. His campaign team may think it is a winning issue for them, but Romney continues to stand as a less likable John McCain in this election cycle.

I’ve already gotten the opposition research book on Mitt Romney that the McCain 2008 campaign prepared. It is 198 pages of stuff that McCain never seemed to get around to using. If I’ve gotten the book, others have gotten the book. Some of the stuff is no big deal. A lot of it is a big deal if only to highlight the consistently changing positions of Mitt Romney.

That’s why voters don’t like him and want an alternative.

Rick Perry stands on the precipice. He is about to fall off. If he wants to be the anti-Romney candidate, he needs to do a few things quickly. First, he needs to get a comprehensive economic plan out soon. Second, he needs to answer some tough questions on immigration. Third, he needs to talk about America more than Texas. Fourth, he needs to not lose the next two debates. He does not have to win. He just cannot lose.

If Perry can hold his own in the debates he’ll be fine not winning the debates outright. But another performance like last night could push him off the edge of support among people who want an anti-Romney alternative, but who really want to beat Barack Obama even more.

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COMMENTS

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  • Marcus_Traianus

    Oddly, I am leaning Gingrich after last night. How strange is that?

    Fruitless, I know. But that’s how I feel.

  • swami7774

    …I think “what might have been.”

  • bornafterreagan

    Against Hutchison and Medina.

  • NeoKong

    I’m giving him a second look too.
    I’m starting to think I can overlook the Scozzafava thing.

    This race is not shaping up at all.
    In fact just the opposite.
    After every one I want a different candidate.

  • http://www.erickerickson.org Erick Erickson

    The campaign says he has not debated since 2005.

  • KBDay

    Perry needs to hire a top tier debate coach. And frankly he needs to rattle a stick at some staff. Last night I could have easily defended his positions–straight out of his book. Perry’s positions on both social security and the tuition deal for illegals’ children are defensible. He just didn’t do it.

    He sort of reminded me of when I was a kid and we’d see a deer freeze in its tracks. No headlights necessary.

    I also wonder if others noticed something I noticed in the CNN-TP debate. Before it, actually. When Bachmann came onto the stage, there was a very warm greeting from Romney. He even made a sort of MMMM sound when he gave her the customary kiss on the cheek. I haven’t reviewed the video, but I don’t think I imagined it.

    With all the Bachmann rants about Perry’s EO on the HPV vaccine, she hasn’t said much of anything to Romney.

    So I’m wondering if there’s a behind-the-scenes camaraderie there.

    Debate skills can be learned. Debate material can be prepped and organized and the candidate can be briefed. I’m not sure who’s in charge of that with Perry’s campaign, but he better grab his narrative or his challengers will run away with it.

    On Newt, I constantly puzzle over conflicted feelings about him, but I have and always will admire his intellect.

  • bornafterreagan

    There’s video evidence and everything:

    http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/291322-1

    Weird that they would say that.

  • westcoastpatriette

    Especially, he needs to stop talking about Texas. He keeps debating from the perspective of a governor not a president. It won’t be long before people really resent hearing him brag about how great Texas is compared to the rest of us.

  • Jim Tomasik

    Gotta be. That one seems to be able to debate pretty well.

  • Xasteius

    nt

  • florajo

    Either Bachmann or Santorum are better conservatives. Newt wanders where his abstract theories pull him.

  • mikej75

    I would add a fifth action item. Perry needs to let loose with the oppo research.

    The candidates need to be forced to answer the difficult questions now, instead of waiting until the general election. If Romney can’t answer, then he shouldn’t be the nominee.

  • fredforamerica

    we need to keep in mind that this debate last night was horribly done, and I don’t really know if it allowed anyone to stand out that much. Fox News’ poor running of the debate might lessen the impact of every candidates’ debate performance last night – good or bad. I sure hope they don’t use last night as a model for future debates. If they do, I will stop watching.

    Given that, Perry really did do a bad job last night. He seemed distracted and almost woozy at some points. I thought maybe the candidates couldn’t hear very well on the stage area either. I would like to support him, but if he doesn’t step it up, I’m afraid I won’t get to vote for him by the time the Tennessee primary comes around next year.

  • acat

    And this is where Romney has benefitted greatly from Rove and the ragin’ cajun… Romney hasn’t lifted a finger, let alone set a hair out of place.

    Mew

  • jeffreywturner

    Romney entire record is low hanging fruit for any conservative wishing to take him down. I could not believe how incompetent Perry was in going after him. I mean it was really painful to watch. I wanted to yell “shut up and just let me say it!”

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    She’s keepin’ her powder dry, dontcha know.

  • bornafterreagan

    But it’s a little weird if the campaign is unaware of the last time its candidate debated.

  • clefi

    Scozzafava; Sitting on the Global Warming bench with Pelosi; While Speaker of the House allowed the RINOs to spend like a bunch of ginned-up Socialists which broke his ‘Contract With America’.

    If he didn’t constantly show us we can’t trust him, it would be very tempting to support him.

  • virginiahiker

    If Romney is the nominee, Obama will agree to no more than 2 Presidential and 1 VP debate, they will be scheduled against major football games, get minimal lamestream meda followup and have marginal to mediocre impact on the election results. If Perry is the nominee, Obama will insist on 4-6 debates, the lamestream media will cover them like a rug, they will be youtubed in real time and become fetured entertainment at Obama’s 2nd inaugral balls.

    I really hate this fact because I wanted to like Perry but if we turn this election into a choice rather than a referendum by nomminating someone who simply cannot communicate; we lose. The choice is ours.

  • virginiahiker

    If Romney is the nominee, Obama will agree to no more than 2 Presidential and 1 VP debate, they will be scheduled against major football games, get minimal lamestream meda followup and have marginal to mediocre impact on the election results. If Perry is the nominee, Obama will insist on 4-6 debates, the lamestream media will cover them like a rug, they will be youtubed in real time and become fetured entertainment at Obama’s 2nd inaugral balls.

    I really hate this fact because I wanted to like Perry but if we turn this election into a choice rather than a referendum by nomminating someone who simply cannot communicate; we lose. The choice is ours.

  • tyman

    I’ve wondered if his back is hurting after his surgery, and he’s on some kind of pain medicine.

    To hear his campaign launch speech, and some of his other speeches, it just isn’t the same man.

    I sure would like to let him know how many Americans are counting on him. Mitt Romney may be better than Obama, but I have no doubt that Romney is power hungry and he would inflate the federal government’s power even further.

    Could Perry be waiting on something or some other forum? Is he just biding his time? Is he playing a sleeping giant, waiting for the right time?

    This is just agonizing…I’m ready for him to silence everyone that says he isn’t conservative, and he could do it very easily on immigration, etc..

    Reading comments from folks at Redstate and other boards is almost painful, and I simply don’t have the time to continuously defend Perry.

  • Common_Cents

    He has been the winner when looking at all the debates combined.

    Nobody wants to challenge Gingrich toe to toe, the others always agree with him and he was most selected by others for hypothetical VP.

  • Darin_H

    Second Look at Newt?

    Here’s something to keep in mind: What is causing the desire to flip? Perry said something that runs strongly counter to the conservative orthodoxy.

    But these things pass. You hear these awful things, you react badly, eventually you halfway forget about them. Not completely, but they don’t drive the train any longer.

    Proof? The very fact that people are jumping on the Gingrich Express, apparently forgetting completely that three months ago Gingrich completely screwed the pooch by calling the Ryan Plan — a thoughtful, realistic tough-love solution to a problem that absolutely requires a solution — “right-wing social engineering.”

    Remember? Or has everyone forgotten?

    Read the whole thing as they say.

  • notpropagandized

    I watched it. He’s simply not a good debater. Not at all. Stop expecting him to do well in the next debate. He won’t. He’ll do everything else superbly, including governing.

  • Jim Tomasik

    Seriously.

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    He is who he is. His coronation as the Great Right Hope so quickly was a mistake.

  • Jim Tomasik

    A Texan and a silver tongue yankee liberal.

  • Whacker77

    I’m not sure an economic plan and opposition research is going to help Rick Perry. By all accounts, he’s a craptacular debater and he’s seems to be getting worse. People may say they prefer governance over debating skills, but this is politics. How a candidate presents himself is very important.

    I wanted to be a fan of Perry, but he’s beginning to remind me of the way I felt about Palin in 2008. She gave a great speech at the convention and then it was all downhill. I tried to excuse her performances, but it was too much. Same with Perry. I tried to excuse his first debate, but I’m not going to do that anymore.

    The fact people are now reassessing Gingrich and Cain and Santorum knowing full well they can’t compete shows how bad the top of field really is. If we can’t really find anything good to say about the frontrunners, we’re in trouble.

    I think it’s red alert time for Republicans. This field isn’t going to win and it’s probably doing more to hurt us than we realize. We need to coax a big name from the sidelines who can both debate and think at the same time. I’m not going to go through the list because we know who they are, but we need a real choice, not a fallback choice.

    Erick is a fan of Jeb and I think we need to start there. I know all about his last name and his weakness on immigration, but he was a true conservative governor in Florida who turned the state ruby red at the statewide level.

  • notpropagandized

    As a Texan, I cringed from the very outset that Perry kept invoking Texas this, Texas that. We’re tired of idiot Texas haters, so prompting their stupid Texas hatred and contempt is not desired. Rick, please realize we’re doing this in the USA. Lose all the Texas “stuff”, to be polite.

  • mdw9661

    It was painful watching and listening to Gov. Perry last night. He has clearly struggled with the debates and I can’t help wondering how he performed in debates leading up to his election and reelection as governor. Rather than being unprepared, as some contend, it may be that he is being over-prepared.

    Romney was ungracious with ridiculing comments like “nice try,” etc. Clearly Gov. Perry was struggling and Mitt gave the impression of piling on. But that’s what happens when a blue-blood tries to sound and act tough and lively when he is a manikin.

    Fortunately for all of us, there are no debate for 3 weeks.

    Meanwhile, everyone is waiting for superman or superwoman to jump into the race. Due to limited name recognition, the window has closed for Christie, Paul Ryan, Mitch Daniels, or Rudy.

    It is hard to believe that the two supposed front-runners are converted democrats. Yikes.

  • tyman

    The Bible talks about putting your confidence in man and what a bad thing that is. I know all that; I mean the counting on him as a show of support to rally the troops, so to speak.

    I like Herman Cain, too, but I just don’t think that Herman has a path to victory in terms of organization, funding, etc. Did Herman really say that he would pick Romney as VP, though?

    I still plan to support Perry, and I’m encouraged by the loyalty of a lot of his supporters. Unfortunately, it’s the people that only hear soundbytes, etc. that will probably be the deciding factor in the general election. It’s like someone on Redstate has as footer to their posts from Winston Churchill: The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter.

    Reality almost never meets expectations, and I fully understand that.

    I still don’t think Romney can win the south, and he may have other problem areas as well. I’m thinking ahead more to the general election, as I think Perry will still win the nomination.

  • dio55

    After strongly defending perry from day one he tells me I “do not have a heart”. its not his words that will stay with us for the long run its our NEW perception of him and that is VERY hard to shake.

  • http://wingright.org bnuckols

    I get the feeling that the Governor doesn’t enjoy confrontation and he’s a little hyperactive. I agree that a debate coach would be a good idea.
    I liked the lobbying answer and look forward to more explanations and less pinata sessions.

  • aeaeren

    “Can I call you Joe” moment. Biden was doomed from the start! Perry needs to create this moment and put Romney out for good! Down for the count, HISTORY. Working on his next Presidental Campaign for 2016 the day after the debate! Bye bye see ya laters! Romney should have been sent packin soooo long ago it is just mind boggling how he is still in the race!

    For Perry the immigration issue is hard one to deal with and will require a careful walking thru the mine field but I think he can get make it, needs to work on that Dream Act as that is the real KILLER issue against him.

    This HPV issue should have been shot dead a while back. He has already said it was a mistake but he didn’t kill the crony aspect by simiply looking Bachmann in the eye and saying “NO OTHER DRUG COMPANY MAKES IT YOU DOPE” maybe without the Dope, hmm maybe a bit more PC but you get my drift. In fact he opend the aircraft hanger door again by trying to defend it by using a victim, but now we find out the visit to the lady was after he Executive Ordered it. He best have a explaination for this quick!. He should have stuck to I said I did it wrong and “NO ONE ELSE MAKES IT YOU DOPE!” and rinse repeat every time it comes up!

    My problem with Perry isn’t those things as much, he is a BIG STATE government dude and he has no issues with Exec Orders or pushing his weight around in the State Government, will he still be against the Federal Government running everything once he is the Fed Man? hmmm inquiring minds want to know. Also spending 20+ years in da Gobnment means you play the game and I guess, well I am sick of the game so how would he change it?

  • Darin_H

    It was insulting (and I agree with Gov Perry on the TX Dream Act), but there is no perfect conservative running. Pick your best, that’s what the primaries are about.

  • http://parsoned.blogspot.com parsoned

    The guy is a Reagan conservative down the line. He’s good in the debates. He has a proven record.

    Compared with the other conservatives like Bachmann, I believe Santorum could actually do the job if elected. Based on what I’ve seen of him and on his record, I don’t think Perry could do the job. Of the current field, I can only see Gingrich, Romney, and Santorum passing the competency test. Romney’s a continual flip-flopper and Gingrich sells out values for expediency on a shockingly regular basis.

    What is it about Santorum that I don’t know that keeps endorsements and cash from coming his way?

  • streiff

    anyone who is successful governor of a large state has the inherent political skills it takes to be an acceptable president. Perry is the longest serving TX gov since the Civil War and only the second since that time to win reelection.

    Santorum isn’t a particularly good politician. I don’t know how competent he is but he’s not really likable.

  • acat

    all those years he was in Pennsylvania.

    He’s always come across, to this cat, as a slimy preacher-wannabe, mostly focussing on social/religious ideas that play well in rural PA but not nationwide.

    Mew

  • buddha1556

    I’m somewhat torn because our primary in Indiana almost never matters all the way back in May. If we have something similar to the D’s in ’08, I think that greatly favors Romney.

    That being said, assuming I have a choice come May, I can’t see Romney ever climbing into my top 2. I was an early supporter of Gingrich, but gravitated away from him when FDT entered race for ’08. I was an early supporter of Cain, but have gradually gravitated toward Perry, assuming he was the candidate that the establishment and the Tea Party could unite behind.

    I have to say Perry is probably still at the top of my list, but Cain and Gingrich have narrowed the gap considerably, and I am reconsidering my allegiance on a hypothetical primary ballot. Obviously Gingrich has a history of going off the deep end in a hurry, so maybe Romney could sneak into the 3 spot. I have to say that with his inconsistent positions, I would pull the lever for Romney, but not as gladly as some others have indicated.

  • streiff

    first, the executive order did not specify the use of Gardasil, it specified HPV vax. And there was a competitor. Cervarix, made by one of Bachmann’s big campaign donors, was already in use in Europe and in the final stage of US licensing. Any monopoly Merck had was going to be a matter of months.

    second, state governments have powers the federal government doesn’t. The 10th gives rights to people and states.

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

    So an action by a governor is of a different type than that taken by a president.

  • TXgoldengirl

    Primary debates are more challenging for a novice debater because there are fewer differences between the stated positions of the candidates. Primary dabates are won or lost based on nuance instead of general principles or philosophies. In primaries, skill and practice really pay off and Perry is definitely rusty. This does not mean that Perry would not match up well against Obama. He would have a much easier time in a general election where there are so many clear differences between the two sides.

  • clarioncaller

    Newt has been sharp on all the debates. I don’t think he’s Mr Conservative as some do. BUT with ROMNEY never a serious candidate for us Conservatives and PERRY not looking so great….BACHMANN…NEWT should be looked at.

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    He definitely needs to bring some game we have not seen so far.

  • http://parsoned.blogspot.com parsoned

    I think Santorum’s record and rhetoric show that he is a social, fiscal, and national security conservative. Not sure why you’d question that, other than reflexively disliking social conservatism?

  • acat

    I’ve seen nothing from him that leads me to conclude he’s got a clue on defense, and he seems to have only discovered fiscal issues last year.

    You’re welcome to post cites and prove me wrong on facts, of course.

    Mew

  • red_oakster

    This was Perry’s race to lose and he lost it.

    The best hope for conservatives is for Ryan to reconsider.

  • aesthete

    First of all, you have to define what, exactly, “national security” means. Santorum certainly gets the cake for being Chief Apologist for whatever it is we’re doing in Afghanistan and Iraq — but whatever it is we’ve been doing in those countries since 2004, national security sure ain’t it.

    Secondly, fiscal conservatism… oy vey. Santorum is the guy who is on record as a compassionate conservative, who has made statements praising Medicare Pt D (the largest entitlement expansion since the Great Society… well, until ObamaCare came along), supported NCLB, and was a big proponent of GWB’s big-government programs, in many cases forwarding suggestions for how to “improve” (read: expand) these programs. Regulation-wise, Santorum supported and continues to support a whole plethora of business-killing and freedom-limiting regulations, both as part of GWB’s big government conservatism, and sometimes going further than GWB and Bill Frist. Whatever Santorum is, he sure isn’t a fiscal conservative.

    Social conservative… eh, I’ll give him that one, but he’s a poor advocate for that cause.

  • aeaeren

    and yes he CAN do those things in Texas. My issue is how is he going to restore the 10th back to what it should be when is USED to doing it one way? We are not going to hear this in these gotch debates but I would like to know his thinking on it. For me Perry’s record is something I can live with as to fixing the jobs ect, but we have more issues then just jobs that need to be addressed.

  • defenseconservative

    Actually, Santorum is very strong on defense and FP issues, whether it’s missile defense, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, or Israel. The problem is that 1) he is not specific enough on most issues 2) he’s probably a social conservative who is just trying to pretend being a broad-based conservative, i.e he’s probably a single-issue politician.

    Remember that any single issue candidate can be swayed and bribed. Just promise to give him what he wants on his pet issue, and he’ll gladly compromise on everything else.

    By the way, remember that, so far, Rick Santorum is the ONLY candidate who has dared to stand against Ron “Blame America First” Paul and Jon “Defense Cuts and Global Warming” Huntsman. And he has never said anything about defense cuts, whereas Paul, Huntsman, and Johnson (who, during the debate, proposed a whopping 43% reduction of military spending) have all called for massive defense cuts.

  • bornafterreagan

    If you want to go toe-to-toe with B.O., it would have helped if you didn’t get blown out in your last election.

  • http://parsoned.blogspot.com parsoned

    Having political skills is a necessary condition, but not a sufficient condition of being president. Perry is not a good communicator. I haven’t seen in him any depth of thought that would indicate to me he can weigh the competing information coming at him, make good decisions, and lead in that direction.

    Being the governor of a large state is not prima facie evidence that he could do the job of president, else Jerry Brown, Pat Quinn, and Andrew Cuomo should be seriously considered for the job.

    He hasn’t shown me a core set of convictions. He hasn’t brought into view any problems he has solved by his determination, tenacity, or administrative skills. No guiding star by which he’s navigated a storm and come out victorious on the other side.

    He has changed positions during his political career along the same magnitude as Romney. Why is he the “conservative” alternative to Romney and the current front-runner?

  • http://www.scragged.com petrarch

    So was Reagan. No better way to know your enemies than by having been one of them.

  • http://parsoned.blogspot.com parsoned

    these are the kind of specifics I can research.

  • drfredc

    One thing that the GOP candidates need to figure out is for every vote they might gain attacking some other GOP candidate, they are probably losing at least as many voters.

    Case in point, MB really started to tank with her over aggressive attack on Perry. She quickly lost whatever ground she had gained by attacking Obama, and then some…

    Perry gained his lead by leading the attack on Obama, he’s been losing ground (or other’s are catching up) every since he’s lost focus on that goal.

  • perry4prez

    Jeb Bush has the same weakness on immigration as Perry. The Bush family are not great debaters, same as Perry. We know Perry is a conservative, a Christian, and a great executive. Jeb Bush has the same weaknesses as Perry. He may have some of the same strengths but we don’t know for sure, it could be that he will fall into the same traps as all the previous Bush presidents.

  • Right_Again

    I agree. As a Utahn, I too cringe when Huntsman invokes Utah. Last I checked, the nation wasn’t clamoring to be Utah. These guys need to realize this is a national campaign. They can tout accomplishments in their home states to some extent, but not this much.

    I’m fairly certain Huntsman would have no chance being re-elected in Utah now that he has shown himself to be such an elitist moderate. I liked him as a governor, but now find him obnoxious as a presidential candidate.

  • wonkish1

    Nobody has given any adequate reasons as to why they can’t compete.

  • dio55

    run ryan run

  • Whacker77

    Have you ever watched Jeb Bush in a debate? Have you ever seen him conduct interviews on TV? Apparently not. You’re so caught up in immigration, you’ll willing to go with a guy who can’t talk on the fly.

    As for Perry’s Christianity, why is that an issue. Are you applying a religious test? Are you saying Jeb can’t be president because he’s Catholic. Perry’s Christianity should have nothing to do with whether he’s a good or bad candidate.

  • Whacker77

    Public perception. Money. Campaign structure. Campaign operatives. Fund raising bundlers. There’s a few for you.

  • http://wingright.org bnuckols

    Against truther-Medina and RINO Hutchisom.

  • http://www.libertygirlusa.com libertygirlusa

    Perry needs to start talking about his plan for America. I don’t care that he brags about Texas, but I need to hear how he will address issues as President.

  • http://www.libertygirlusa.com libertygirlusa

    though I have lived in Virginia for close to 15 years now and love it here, I am from Illinois – Chicagoland area. Imagine my shame with Obama as President!

  • wonkish1

    John McCain was flat broke going into NH in 2008. He was so broke that he had to dismantle his campaign structure, lay off campaign operatives, consultants, pr and ad guys, his bundlers deserted him. He had to fly coach to New Hampshire for the primary. And he was so broke that he had to take out a personal loan secured by his donor/contact list just to keep a not even bare bones campaign going or he would have had to bow out. Furthermore, the average republican primary voter hated his guts for 8 years straight.

    Clinton in 92 was at 4% in the polls at this time, had next to 0 staff, 0 money, 0 pr, 0 ads, etc.

    John Kerry may have had his own money in 2004, but was performing bad throughout most of the 04 campaign until Dean screwed up and Kerry leaped up in the last minute.

    I’m sorry, but history has shown that there have been more surprises than non surprises(when you aren’t talking previous VPs and Pres. seeking reelection).

  • oldfox

    After watching the 3 GOP debates, I believe that there is only one candidates that could beat Obama. These debates do serve a purpose in weeding out those candidates that can not go one on one in a debate with Obama and win. The debates with Obama are the only ones that will count, all polls will not matter until the final debates.

    I would pick Newt Gingrich as the only one that will be able to out debate Obama on the issues that will bring this country back to it’s greatness. Perry is a poor debater…and would lose. Romney talks sound bites…and would lose. The other candidates are impressive, but no match for Obama….

  • Whacker77

    Very true and good points by you, but he was able to regain his mojo because Romney, Thompson, and Huckabee split the conservative vote in such a way that left McCain able to shoot the gap.

    Still, the fact he lost those top operatives showed in the general election. His campaign was a disaster lead by two non-conservative operatives, Rick Davis and Steve Schmidt.

  • wonkish1

    nt

  • wonkish1

    Its a very powerful endorsement in New Hampshire among conservatives.

  • jedison

    I too saw that headline. Christie is one of those kooky Global Warming believers. He stood up to Big Labor in NJ and for that he deserves major credit but why would we nominate someone who agrees with Algore on such an issue? Surely that says something about his smarts (or lackthereof) –besides we already have Romney.

    A bunch of scientists in white coats surrounded by beakers and test tubes, agreeing (not proving) that climate change is caused by human beings is not science. I don’t understand why these “Republicans” or “Conservatives” continue to buy this science-by-consensus argument? I guess they think this is good politics.

    I don’t care how many scientists sign petitions or write articles in scientific magazines, when your argument for man-made climate change boils down to “50,000,000 Elvis Fans Can’t Be Wrong, and here’s a PowerPoint presentation in case you don’t believe me” that’s bad science and bad politics.

  • TXgoldengirl

    Christie is a moderate Republican and that will quickly be found out once he declares, and the primary process may damage his chances of winning again back in New Jersey. I think people are drawn to him because he’s a straightforward guy with integrity. Doesn’t mean he’s as conservative as votes are going to want though.

  • acat

    That’s a reply with specifics.

    My read on Santorum lines up well with your 2nd point. His primary issues are social. His career indicates that’s the case.

    My hope is that Santorum will drop out soon and announce a rematch with Casey Jr. in PA, get his old seat back. I think, with the raised profile and new, angrier demeanor, he’d be good there.

    As for hitting Ron Paul .. do they give medals for hitting the pinata? Or, if you prefer, hititng Ron Paul is “punching down” for everyone else on the stage, but only Santorum doesn’t realize it.

    Mew

  • jaykali

    He acts like a governor running for president, I agree he needs to tell us what he’d do as president. I think in the end it might go Romney’s way just bc he’ll sweep the moderate states and Perry might be weak enough for others to nip at his heels. I think Romney could benefit like McCain did in that way.

  • grazibella

    You seriously are a weasel. Now Rick Perry is not doin’ for you, so you throw him under the bus? Maybe it’s best you stop promoting the “flavor of the month” candidate, and just concentrate on the Republican field in general. You obviously suck at picking winners. Meanwhile, Sarah Palin is sitting in AK laughing her ass off at you.

  • perry4prez

    @whacker77, I didn’t even realize that Jeb Bush was Catholic. Either way, I have no objection to his religious affiliation.

  • kyconservative

    I don’t think Perry’s performance was that bad anyway, but regardless, NO WAY I support Mitt Romney for President. The GOP is a southern party. The vast majority of electoral votes we receive will be from Southern states. We went with the “electable” candidate, John McCain, in 2008, and look what it got us. Since 1968 we have had McCain, Dole, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and two faux southerners, George H.W. and George W. Bush, who were elected from Texas but both had east coast roots and pro-Wall Street/corporatist values. Out of all of those nominees, only Ronald Reagan can be considered a true conservative and none are true southerners. This is pretty pathetic considering how much the GOP relies on southern votes to control Congress and win the Presidency.

    We must DEMAND an authentic southerner with solid positions on social issues and a more populist rather than Wall Street/corporate approach to the economy. Someone who will support and identify with ordinary people rather than the elites. With Mike Huckabee choosing not to run, Rick Perry is the only candidate that meets this criterea.

    The southerners on the site must demand the party insiders quit disparaging Rick Perry in their lame attempt to promote Romney. Fair is fair

  • http://lukos.com Ed54

    to just have the political skills it takes to be an acceptable president. To be our nominee, he must have the political skills it takes to WIN the presidential election. If Perry truly has some kind of innate inability to perform well in debates, then he stands a goot chance of getting trounced by Obama in the general election.

  • californiagold

    ….after watching the rerun of the debate (ya, I’m nuts), Perry didn’t look nearly as bad as the bloggers and media spin doctors suggest. In fact, had Perry not messed up the flip flop attack line on Romney, many of you would be saying what a great job Perry did last night.

    Having said that, the issue that hurt Perry last night was immigration. It’s easy for Erick Erickson to say Perry needs to come up with a better answer on that issue, but you can’t have it both ways Erick. Perry stated what he believed, and that’s his position. And that position has helped him get reelected governor in a state with a large hispanic population. Are you suggesting Perry flip flop on immigration like Romney ?

  • http://www.rightreality.wordpress.com andysmith

    Period.

  • californiagold

    Of the current republican field, there is no doubt that Rick Perry is the strongest candidate. Here’s why…..

    In order for a republican to defeat Obama, that person will need to increase support among hispanics. Rick Perry has a proven record of being able to do that. Whereas Mitt Romney has pandered to the far far right and will end up turning off the hispanic vote.

    When pollsters say “independents” or “swing” voters determine who wins elections, who do you think represents a large percentage of that group ? Hispanics, that’s who.

    A few weeks ago I listened to a well respected democratic pollster who was discussing who they’d rather see in the general election, Romney or Perry. He stated that the Obama administration fears Perry because of Perry’s ability to get the hispanic vote, and that Perry would lock up the southern states. Whereas Romney would allow Obama to be competitive in certain southern states.

  • californiagold

    ..so does that make Perry better than Reagan ?

  • Thomas_Alan

    For over a year we kept hearing about the anti-Romney rising from the pack. That’s a part of being the frontrunner. After searching and searching, dead ends like Pawlenty, and refusals to run from the likes of Barbour, Huckabee, Daniels, Pence (who I think could have risen to 2nd tier status had he run), etc. Perry came in and finally filled that void. People were willing to overlook the warts to give him his opportunity.

    There isn’t much desperation for an anti-Romney now. What we have, instead, is a growing concern that Perry just isn’t up to the job. The guy falls asleep 30 minutes into every debate and says that anyone who doesn’t agree with him on favoritism for illegals over American citizens doesn’t have a heart. For everything that’s ever been said about Romney, he doesn’t have a habit of turning on the conservative base like that.

    Where Perry was once the anti-Romney, I think Romney is now becoming the anti-Perry.

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    Oh, and Californiagold. a GOP candidate who is weak on immigration will be a bigger liability than one who throws a few crumbs to illegals will be an asset for the so-called “Hispanic vote.”

    Think Meg Whitman.

  • runner12

    People need to be careful what they wish for. Cbristie would be exposed on his weak points and it could really hurt him. He is not really all that conservative when you get down to it.

    If anything, he would steal votes from the Romney camp. So in a way, his entrance may ensure a Perry candidacy.

  • Ann_W

    I seriously doubt people would go after his wife. Everyone has had personal sadness.

  • Doc Holliday

    he is the best debater, and the smartest man we have. Now if people could get over the fact that he is Newt Gingrich, we might have something.

  • californiagold

    Meg Whitman had no history of support with hispanics (unless you consider her illegal house cleaner)

    Perry, and GW Bush before him, understand the changing nature of US demographics. And hispanics have become a significant group of voters, the majority of which identify themselves as center/right. The republican party has done a rotten job of appealing to the hispanic vote. Perry is one republican politician who knows how to appeal to them.

  • californiagold

    Rick Perry doesn’t land the knockout blow to Romney last night and now you all want to throw Perry under the bus ?

    This is crazy….the campaign has just begun, and Rick Perry realizes it’s a marathon, not a sprint.

    The nomination will be won or lost with retail politics and campaign ads, not debates.

    Ironically, the best thing that could happen to the Perry campaign at this time would be to lower expectations. Let Romney take back the frontrunner status and all the negative media attention it receives.

  • aesthete

    …

  • gekster

    Alot of these posters are like the fans who think thier team is the greatest,
    but loose one ball game and they have no use for them any more.

  • acat

    Smartest? Yes, in many ways.
    Best in a debate? Easily.
    Newt Gingrich? Yep.
    Conservative? Waidaminit.

    I’ve gone back and taken a look at the halcyon days of the dittohead caucus, and come to the conclusion that the CwA was quite conservative, but that .. once it was done, Speaker Gingrich was more likely to merely oppose Clinton than to actually push Conservatism.

    The two paths parallel quite closely, of course, but .. a Conservative would not have backed down on the government shutdown, for one example, but Gingrich did.

    I’ve arrived at the conclusion that the Contract With America used conservatism as a way to build popularity, and the Tea Party proves that the ideas still resonate, but for Gingrich himself, it was about winning, not the ideas.

    This, I think, is why he found it easy to endorse Dede Scozzafava, and to sit on a couch with San Fran Nan in one of Al Gore’s “people are evil!” PSAs .

    Would I vote for him if he won the nomination? Yes. I’d even leave my noseplugs at home. I just don’t entirely trust that, in his gut, he’s anything but a wonk who knows a popular idea when he sees one.

    Mew

  • Doc Holliday

    he is so smart that he is a “thinker” that is always dangerous. I am not sure I agree on the Clinton opposition goal, but I do agree he lost control as speaker. I remember the attempted coup, always bad when a coup fails, bad for those who pushed it.

    I had a pretty good view of the goings on, Gingrich certainly did make a mess of things. But I am looking at a field with a lot of Bragg’s and Burnside’s, I am not seeing a single Forrest or Cleburne. I am concerned that Perry can not finish the job. That is the thing about politics, just like war, you either win or you are ruined. We simply can not afford a loss here, we can’t have a “rebuilding year”, we have to give our best and play it ’til the end. I am not sold that Perry can do that, and it goes without saying I don’t trust Romney.

    I say we go with Gingrich because we can trust him and he will fight. If we go with Gingrich/Cain, I can sleep well, at least we threw all we could at them. In 2000 I doubted that W even wanted to be president, I was wrong about that. But I doubt Perry wants it by an order of ten, and I doubt he can take a hit like George could.

  • wbb1950

    Eric, I agree with your comments about the last Republican debate. Neither of the two front runners came across well. Perry came across to me as stupid, and Romney came across to me as too slick. And that is a problem because one or the other of those candidates will face the man who is destroying our country Barack Hussein Obama next year, unless new blood enters the race.

    Today, Perry supporters concede that he did not do well. However, they go on to say, that even though he is a poor debater he has the ability to win elections. In addition, they argue that the ability to debate does not determine the election.
    That argument is unpersuasive however. If you think back to prior campaigns from Kennedy vs. Nixon to Reagan vs. Mondale to Clinton vs. Bush, the winner of the debates became the president. The only exception of record was Hillary vs. Obama. It is now generally conceded that Hillary won 24 of the 26 debates but Obama got the nomination. That is an anomaly which is attributable to the undue lies, manipulation and undue influence exerted by big media. Big media will do everything it can to make Perry look stupid– and promote Obama.

    Romney supporters are quick to claim that he won the debate. But that depends on the meaning of the word ?won?. I will vote for whoever the Republican nominee turns out to be, but I must tell you he does not inspire me. And although he has executive experience, his signature legislation Romney care is highly problematic, and his efforts to distinguish it from Obama care are to me at least unconvincing. It causes me to wonder whether he is a Republican in name only, like Jon Huntsman. His answers do not reflect a deep understanding of policy or a willingness to fight hard against Obama as well as his policies. Big media will endeavor to make Romney look phony, and to promote Obama.

    This begs the obvious question what kind of candidate do we need to crush Obama? I think there are four (4) salient requirements i) first, he must come across as an intelligent well informed leader–in the debate forum, ii) second, he must have a credible plan to solve our economic problems, iii) third, he must have proven track record of success in an executive role to demonstrate that he could in fact deliver on that plan, and iv) fourth, he must have the killer instinct to defeat the Chicago Machine, to fend off the disingenuous attacks that big media is famous for, and to prove to the world that Barack Hussein Obama is not merely inept but a dirty politician and his programs are an unmitigated disaster.

    Reasonable minds can differ on whether Perry or Romney can meet those criteria. Governor Christy however can. And because he can he is a far better choice, and is the man to crush Obama. I hope he enters the race.

    Finally, I am concerned that Republican strategists will counsel their candidate to stick to the issues and not attack Obama personally. This is a monumental mistake. They have no idea how bad the attack on their candidate is going to get–no idea. The best defense is a good offense, and that means go straight for the jugular. The reason McCain won the third debate, after losing the first two was because he went after Obama personally. That is what the country wants the Republican nominee to do, and if he confines himself to policy issues, he will lose.
    Republican strategists need to know this. After studying Obama at close quarter throughout the primary, I sent his Washington State and national campaign manager a series of articles advocating an ad homonym attack, based on the treasure trove of information which big media was censoring. When he finally did it, he won and his staff sent me a big thank you. But as I told them the successful strategy was not my work. It came from the website Hillaryis44. This website should be required reading for Republican staffers.
    Not surprisingly, that website is giving the same advice to Republicans now, and that site gives accurate hard hitting argument which can be used to destroy Obama before he can destroy the Republican as he has destroyed every other opponent. He is after all a scion of the Chicago Machine, and Chicago has not had a Republican mayor since 1932. In order to win, the Republicans must defeat Obama, the Chicago Machine & big media. Here is how Lee Atwater would do it:
    http://www.hillaryis44.org/2011/09/22/sexist-misogynist-flim-flam-man-treacherous-corrupt-boob-%E2%80%93-narrative-from-big-pink-hits-big-media-big-time-part-ii-on-republican-debate-night/#comments

  • wbb1950

    Eric, I agree with your comments about the last Republican debate. Neither of the two front runners came across well. Perry came across to me as stupid, and Romney came across to me as too slick. And that is a problem because one or the other of those candidates will face the man who is destroying our country Barack Hussein Obama next year, unless new blood enters the race.

    Today, Perry supporters concede that he did not do well. However, they go on to say, that even though he is a poor debater he has the ability to win elections. In addition, they argue that the ability to debate does not determine the election.
    That argument is unpersuasive however. If you think back to prior campaigns from Kennedy vs. Nixon to Reagan vs. Mondale to Clinton vs. Bush, the winner of the debates became the president. The only exception of record was Hillary vs. Obama. It is now generally conceded that Hillary won 24 of the 26 debates but Obama got the nomination. That is an anomaly which is attributable to the undue lies, manipulation and undue influence exerted by big media. Big media will do everything it can to make Perry look stupid– and promote Obama.

    Romney supporters are quick to claim that he won the debate. But that depends on the meaning of the word ?won?. I will vote for whoever the Republican nominee turns out to be, but I must tell you he does not inspire me. And although he has executive experience, his signature legislation Romney care is highly problematic, and his efforts to distinguish it from Obama care are to me at least unconvincing. It causes me to wonder whether he is a Republican in name only, like Jon Huntsman. His answers do not reflect a deep understanding of policy or a willingness to fight hard against Obama as well as his policies. Big media will endeavor to make Romney look phony, and to promote Obama.

    This begs the obvious question what kind of candidate do we need to crush Obama? I think there are four (4) salient requirements i) first, he must come across as an intelligent well informed leader–in the debate forum, ii) second, he must have a credible plan to solve our economic problems, iii) third, he must have proven track record of success in an executive role to demonstrate that he could in fact deliver on that plan, and iv) fourth, he must have the killer instinct to defeat the Chicago Machine, to fend off the disingenuous attacks that big media is famous for, and to prove to the world that Barack Hussein Obama is not merely inept but a dirty politician and his programs are an unmitigated disaster.

    Reasonable minds can differ on whether Perry or Romney can meet those criteria. Governor Christy however can. And because he can he is a far better choice, and is the man to crush Obama. I hope he enters the race.

    Finally, I am concerned that Republican strategists will counsel their candidate to stick to the issues and not attack Obama personally. This is a monumental mistake. They have no idea how bad the attack on their candidate is going to get–no idea. The best defense is a good offense, and that means go straight for the jugular. The reason McCain won the third debate, after losing the first two was because he went after Obama personally. That is what the country wants the Republican nominee to do, and if he confines himself to policy issues, he will lose.
    Republican strategists need to know this. After studying Obama at close quarter throughout the primary, I sent his Washington State and national campaign manager a series of articles advocating an ad homonym attack, based on the treasure trove of information which big media was censoring. When he finally did it, he won and his staff sent me a big thank you. But as I told them the successful strategy was not my work. It came from the website Hillaryis44. This website should be required reading for Republican staffers.
    Not surprisingly, that website is giving the same advice to Republicans now, and that site gives accurate hard hitting argument which can be used to destroy Obama before he can destroy the Republican as he has destroyed every other opponent. He is after all a scion of the Chicago Machine, and Chicago has not had a Republican mayor since 1932. In order to win, the Republicans must defeat Obama, the Chicago Machine & big media. Here is how Lee Atwater would do it:
    http://www.hillaryis44.org/2011/09/22/sexist-misogynist-flim-flam-man-treacherous-corrupt-boob-%E2%80%93-narrative-from-big-pink-hits-big-media-big-time-part-ii-on-republican-debate-night/#comments

  • defenseconservative

    He is not just a chief apologist for American policy regarding Iraq and Afghanistan. He’s an advocate for missile defense elements in the Czech Rep. and Poland and has criticized Obama for cancelling the Bush Admin plans for such elements of missile defense. He backs Israel to hilt. He believes America’s total foreign policy should be based, at least partially, on values and human rights. He believes that the US military is not a guinea pig on which politicians should experiment.

    Most importantly of all, he is still, to this day, the ONLY candidate who has dared to take the saintly Uncle Paul to task when Paul badmouthed the US, its foreign policy, and its military and blamed America for 9/11. No other candidate has dared to do that or even to agree with Santorum.. That shows me that the other 7 candidates are just cowards too afraid to challenge the saintly Uncle Paul. And if they are too afraid to criticize Paul, what guarantee do you have that they would criticize Obama?

  • radicalrighty

    .

  • rec0n

    “He sort of reminded me of when I was a kid and we?d see a deer freeze in its tracks. No headlights necessary.”

    Rick in the debates reminds me of my high school oral reports…I was painfully nervous. There was absolutely nothing upstairs – I couldn’t have told you my own name.

    I will support him all the way, but he makes it inordinately difficult to do when he makes comments like ‘heartless’ and can’t articulate his argument in these forums. And as much as I believe in him, he’s going to need to reach others besides myself.

  • rec0n

    I would have climbed Rombama’s frame like a mountain lion.

  • rec0n

    on Paul. He bothers me on a lot of levels, but the fact that he seems to attract a lot of young people has been on my mind quite a bit lately.

    I keep coming back to the fact that Conservatives for many years turned a blind eye to liberalism in their schools. I don’t want to make that mistake with Libertarianism as well.

    Perhaps an election or debate forum isn’t the place to address that concern, but I think dismissing the issue entirely would be a mistake.

  • kestrel

    From an IBD editorial:
    “Sound-bite debates in which you thrust and parry… with eight other candidates, as well as the pundits, are one thing. Comparing your job-creating pro-growth record in a booming state to the record of the arguably worst president in American history is something else.”

    Incidentally, Perry got a standing ovation in Michigan today, which is Romney territory.
    http://apps.detnews.com/apps/blogs/watercooler/index.php

  • freentn

    If Romney wins by default now that Perry is fading, then Trump will run as an Independent and BO or Hillary will win.

  • Marcus_Traianus

    He changes his mind more than his underwear.

    Ace keeps alternating between Christie and some other choice. I can’t even keep up anymore. Just what we need- another Blue State RINO in the race.

    Short story; I don’t think anyone has the market cornered on the next nominee. This is far from over.

  • Marcus_Traianus

    “Pick your best, that?s what the primaries are about.”

    There appear to be many people that have lost sight of this.