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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

As I Was Saying

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  September 28th, 2011 at 07:04 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

I said yesterday that Herman Cain is now the center of gravity for the GOP’s 2012 candidates. Today, Fox News shows a meteoric rise for Herman Cain. And it is pretty much all at Rick Perry’s expense.

Perry is down 10 points to 19%. Herman Cain has skyrocketed to 17%. They are in statistical tie with Mitt Romney who is at 23%. Last month, Romney was at 22%.

This is telling in a number of ways.

First, Perry really has had as bad a week as many of us have been saying and he could not apologize fast enough for that “heartless” remark. He finally did today.

Second, on the national scene these debates seem to matter.

Third, Herman’s message is really resonating.

But most significantly for me is just how stagnant Mitt Romney is. Even more so, when asked who the voters have most in common with, Rick Perry leads the rest of the field with 17% and Herman is in second place at 14%. Mitt Romney? Only 12% of the voters think they have something in common with him.

This again suggests that primary voters are trying desperately to find an alternative to Mitt Romney and Perry’s performance over the past few weeks, culminating in that debate, has given folks cold feet.

Perry needs to get out now with his jobs plan and get back on the jobs message.

Cain? He needs to translate this into some serious fundraising. The quarterly deadline is September 30th, so if you are a Cain fan, you better pony up. Because the message next week is not going to be his polling, but his money. Same goes for Perry.

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COMMENTS

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  • silentcal2012

    Romney leads.

    Just like he leads in the new Florida poll.

    And in the new Iowa poll.

    And in the new Ohio poll.

    Spin, spin, spin away.

  • onemovoter

    included this time in the Fox Poll as she was included in the August Poll. She had 8% last time.

    Seems there is quite a bit of shifting going around on the conservative side. You are very right on the Romney ceiling.

    I figured I would mention the Palin factor of the poll. I did post a diary about another poll that closely matches the FOX poll. They are called Poll Position. It might help confirm what you are thinking.

  • renl57

    Erickson: “on the national scene these debates seem to matter….Perry needs to get out now with his jobs plan and get back on the jobs message.”

    The reason why Perry was perceived as stumbling in the debates, had little or nothing to do with his lack of a jobs plan. (If that was the worst problem Perry had in the debates, he would still be the front-runner by far.)

    The real reason was Perry’s advocating an immigration policy that didn’t go over well with a significant part of the GOP base. And combined with his “lack a heart” remark, it suggested a revival of Bush’s “compassionate conservatism,” which is also not going over well.

    Plus Perry’s evidently inadequate debating skills made many of us wonder how well he would do in a one-on-one debate with Obama.

    And those are what Perry needs to fix. It wouldn’t hurt him to admit that he’s “heard the voices of the party faithful”–and that as President he wouldn’t toy with giving “magnet” benefits to families of illegals.

    And Perry also needs to give us the confidence that he’ll be able to debate Obama in October 2012 and at least not lose the debate. That means he has to hone his debating skills. He ought to have had no trouble painting Romney as a flip-flopper, except that he flubbed his lines. Let him try that one again in the next debate.

    If he can put those issues behind him, then his path to the GOP nomination will get a lot smoother.

  • wonkish1

    I wouldn’t worry to much about it.

    I tried to figure out where here support was going a little over a week ago when they started taking her out of the polls. My conclusion was that it was pretty evenly distributed.

  • Scope

    for days. The media has taken Perry’s jobs and economic successes and turned the conversation onto issues that have not been the voters main issues. Yes, yes, yes, Perry needs to get back on his successful jobs and economic message, and ignore the distractions.

  • Whacker77

    Herman Cain is great, but let’s get something straight. He’s got almost no government experience. I know most will say that’s a bonus, but the candidates and presidents who are the most successful generally have experience in government. Just look at Reagan and Clinton.

    I know most people here value their heart over their head in primaries, but how much of Cain’s rise is due to the awfulness of the supposed frontrunners? Perry all but failed in the first three debates and Mitt’s whole strategy is to just outlast everyone.

    Other than the last week, Cain’s had a rough summer. He’s stumbled on foreign policy questions like right of return and he’s had trouble keeping staff. If the field were to totally collapse, would Cain have a campaign structure good enough to win a national campaign?

    I like Herman, but the ebbs and flows of this race have me pulling my hair out. The fact so many big names have passed is just crazy considering how vunerable Obama is.

  • californiagold

    Among republican voters, Perry leads in Ohio and Penn.

    And in the latest PPP poll from Florida, Herman Cain is in single digits at only 7%, contradicting the pay for play straw poll that he won.

    The state by state polls are far more important than the others, and from every indication, it’s still a two man race between Perry and Romney.

    One good debate performance will put Perry in a commanding lead, as Romney has a ceiling of support he cannot improve upon.

  • wennejunk

    Romney consistently pulls 20-23%

    Most others seem to say he’s their second, but most electable choice.

    Tells me roughly a fifth of the GOP are RINOs.

  • wennejunk

    Support and workers come out of the woodwork.

  • carolina

    Actually, I wish all of the candidates would focus on states rights.
    Anyway, Perry should have deflelected the illegals’ children ability to go to state colleges as a decision that Texas made, as each state has the authority to do. (several other states also allow children of illegals to attend with in-state tuition)
    I really hope Perry can get his debate act together.
    I like Cain also.

  • Bill S

    Oh wait. No, he doesn’t, does he? Maybe it’s because the sycophants like you are the only support he has.

  • silentcal2012

    Not old polls. Not spin:

    Iowa used to be considered a HUGE state, as everyone told themselves NH doesn’t matter. Now its quiet.

    http://caucuses.desmoinesregister.com/2011/09/28/mitt-romney-leads-new-presidential-poll-in-iowa/

    In FL, Romney is up by 6. PPP is far more credible than that other poll you reference plus its newer. Its a 12 point swing from the last poll, a huge swing.

    http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/mitt-romney-pulls-ahead-of-rick-perry-florida-poll

  • silentcal2012

    “The only support he has” . There must be an awful lot of “sycophants like me” out there. Implying the guy leading everywhere has no support. Grasping now, just grasping.

    Romney has plenty of support. Usually people with real lives, and dont spend all day in conservative chat rooms.

    He support is wide and deep and only seems tepid because he is so familiar, he doesnt seem inspiring.

    There is an immature portion of the base that is seeking there own Obama. But true conservatives are not into idolotry and are not looking for a rock star.

  • Vaughn Harold

    Romney is the only guy for you.

  • Whacker77

    I’m sure help will be there, but what will the quality be? Are the top strategists who know how to run a national campaign be there? I don’t know. The same could be said for Palin, could she ever produce a structure with credible talent. I doubt it.

    I’m just reall frustrated with the entire field. If big names hadn’t passed, Romney would be in single digits and Cain would be a loveable gadfly.

  • jaykali

    Like me some Cain. I hope he sticks around in the top 3. He is a much more legitimate 3rd guy than Bachmann or Ron Paul. I would probably rather him serve in someone’s cabinet and get some high pro-file federal level experience. I think in the end you will have to ask yourself, do we really know how he will govern? Yes he has good valuable business leadership experience and a good message. Is he going to know how to negotiate with a very hostile Democratic caucus who would be reeling from huge losses?

    That is the question we’d have to ask ourselves. The thing I like ab Cain is that he appears to know how to put smart people him around him. Being an executive requires that and so high-level CEO-type experience is applicable to govt jobs in that sense, in my opinion. You have Obama who puts idiot academics around him. Cain would choose smart people, I am convinced of that.

    Anywho it’s still early and it is probably Romney’s race to lose but if Cain becomes the #1 anti-Romney choice, we are going to have to think closely ab him or Perry.

  • jaykali

    Eventually if he surges to a consistent #2 he will get heat and it’s going to be tough. He like Bachmann would difficult to attack. Eventually people are going to dig into his plans and say he’s not legitimate, he doesn’t have the right experience, doesn’t have details in his economic plan, etc. – I am just guessing. He doesn’t have a political record to scrutinize so you have to attack him on ideas, slip-ups etc. I mean do people care that he didn’t know what “right of return” is? I hope he gets more questions in the next debate, it will be interesting to see if he can handle some increased scrutiny.

    There is no doubt he is GREAT on the stump. The guy has CEO written all over him, he is so succinct in his answers. I want to buy whatever he’s selling. He’s got so much energy, it’s contagious. He would definitely get people excited I think. But we’ll see.

  • acat

    If that’s the best Romney can do, his wife and kids will thank him for packing it in soon and saving their inheritance.

    The man needs to find a cheaper hobby!

    Mew

  • minister_of_war

    Perry dropped by 7 points since that last FOXNews poll & Romney jumped by 6 points to move from being down by 8 points in the last FOXNews poll to being up by 4 in today’s poll. That’s a very sizeable 10 point swing. You can spin this however you want. But I’m just giving you the numbers.

    And you want to play like Cain’s jump is the big news & Romney’s lead is insignificant. Like we should move along from the fact that Romney’s up in this poll & that there’s nothing at all to see here regarding Romney.

    Erick, it appears that your cheering against Romney has clouded your judgment.

    So, for those of you who need a clearer take on the issue: according to FOXNews, Romney is now leading by 4 with 23 % of the vote; followed by Perry with 19 and 17 with 17 % support respectively.

    The last FOXNews poll results were from August 29-31.

    That poll showed Perry leading with 26 %; followed by Romney with 18 % and Cain only had 4 %.

    Erick, I’ll give you one thing. Cain does have momentum & Perry dropped like a rock. But you can’t just pretend like Romney doesn’t exist or that his 6 point rise in the poll didn’t even happen. Romney rised by 6 points & holds the lead in this poll. We’ll just have to see what the next polls show & what trends can be seen from looking at them.

  • publiussteve

    I’m glad Cain is gaining; I’d support him in a heartbeat over Perry. But as Dick Morris said on the Hannity radio show today, every debate that passes, Romney is becoming a more appealing candidate and looks more presidential. It’s still early though so time will tell.

    And I’m not impressed with Perry’s phony “apology” for his ridiculous and insulting “heartless” comment. Perry was, is, and always will be weak on illegal immigration.

  • runner12

    NT

  • http://www.sunshinestatesarah.com SunshineStateSarah

    I talked with a lot of the Cain staffers last week. they have good people on board.

  • http://www.fpcr.org balloonjuice

    I happen to agree with Perry on this issue (and I’m one of the Texas taxpayers who is helping “subsidize” this to use Santorum’s word). But I don’t agree because I have a bigger heart than anyone else, nor is it even necessary for someone in Massachusetts or Pennsylvania to give another moment’s thought to it.

    Governor Perry was given 30 seconds to explain a very complicated issue and even those thirty seconds were taken up with Santorum interrupting him and not letting him finish a sentence.

    Here it is in a nutshell. Whether Rick Perry or someone else is the nominee of the Republican party, we will still have in-statue tuition for Texas residents who have been her for three years and met the other criteria. We want it that way. Of 181 state legislators only 4 disagreed. And the most conservative legislator in the state, Leo Berman, voted for it. This is not a conservative v. liberal issue.

    Frankly, if you don’t like it, go back and read the 10th amendment again and again until you realize it is a Texas issue, not a federal issue. Yes, I understand that US citizenship is a federal issue, but the amount of tuition charged in Texas is not a federal issue.

  • http://www.fpcr.org balloonjuice

    said about Bill Clinton when he worked for him? Morris is looking for a job.

    Yes, Romney dresses the part.

  • unclefred

    It is not like primary voters don’t know Mitt. We see what we’ve seen for 5 years. Nothing new, same warts, same issues, same baggage, and the same virtues.

    Were Mitt the first choice, he’d have it sewn up. In states where independents can’t vote in the primary he can’t get over 20 something percent.

    Mr Morris is an interesting man, but his opinion has always been for sale. I suspect he’s seeking a slot in a Romney administration.

  • atlracer35

    CAIN all the way….many of us don’t want George Bush III, or a career politician, or someone who is weak on illegal immigration, or someone who mandates b/c they’re always going to error on the side of “safety” over freedom! Please…we’re not going to vote for Mittens but we’re not definitely going to coronate Perry like all the morons did Obama.

  • luvnthebigsites

    Let me suggest that if you have written him off as a 1st tier contender and he’s not worthy of your “horse race” Threads… Well

    Find somebody else to write about.

  • jstjoan

    It’s right there below the comment box. Maybe you should go hang with the Kos Kiddies if you’re intent on being rude.

  • Bill S

    I’d have to ban myself.

    But thanks for playing.

  • freentn

    winning only 11 States, none in the South. He’s hitting his ceiling again in this race. There is nothing that romney can do to break through that celing because he has maxed out on the liberal moderate rino vote.

    Perry has been beating himself by the poor debate performances. His problem now is not romney who has maxed out but the rest of the field who have taken away conservative voters from him.

    Perry need to have a great debate on October to get his momentum back.

  • freentn

    !

  • freentn

    already apologized for the “no heart” remark.

  • powertothepeople

    Oh, how special.

  • strangebuttrue

    Yes, Perry has been doing poorly in the debates, but that’s just a symptom of the real problem. If, as this poll indicates, Perry has lost about a third of his support, its because these people are getting to know Rick Perry and not liking what they see and hear.

  • freentn

    asked ridiculous questions about building a 1200 mile fence or red herring questions about immigration?

    Those questions are going to keep coming and Perry will have to develop a better way to respond to them. Also he needs to be able to articulately recite romney’s Flip-Flops.

  • Scope

    That’s why he is seen as the John Edwards of the Republicans. All hair and no roots.

  • onemovoter

    Other wise gaffs like he had on Blitzer’s show will put him back down to where he was before this last weekend.

    I still have a problem with Cain kissing Muslim butt to get past his not hiring one statements. I actually agreed with his original statements.

  • strangebuttrue

    And that’s one of his problems. He could have said it in less than 30 seconds. When your supporters have to start saying what you should have said, and have to explain and defend your positions for you, its generally not a good thing.

    Also, yes, Santorum was interrupting him, but Perry has only himself to blame for that- he made a huge tactical error by asking Santorum a question at the beginning of his response.

  • freentn

    be as good as it gets. I suspect that some names may have passed because it will be almost impossible to pull the Country ourt of Depression in 4 years.

  • freentn

    vote.

  • strangebuttrue

    Someone once said that our greatest obstacle to our success is ourselves. True statement.

    My point was, a lot of people are saying that the debates were the reason why he lost some support. While technically true, I believe the real reason he’s lost support is that people are now seeing and hearing Perry in action and learning more about him.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    pets may inadvertently be strapped to the station wagon again…

    {See what I did just there? That was joke you Candi-bots… let it go}

  • aesthete

    …

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    We’ll be here all next week… thank you!

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    N/T.

  • aesthete

    Everyone is expecting some Messianic candidate to step in and fix everything that’s wrong with politics, government, etc. A month ago, that guy was Perry, and those people who expected to find a super-conservative with no blemishes are just now getting off their highs. Looks like Cain is going to be that guy for a while — and with Cain, it just might stick. After all, the guy’s never held elected office; he doesn’t have votes or compromise in his record (though he undoubtedly would if he had held elected office beforehand).

  • minister_of_war

    It’s sad to see her with lower numbers than Huntsman who now has 4 % according to FOX News. Bachmann & Santorum are both at 3 %. Maybe CNN will have to dis-invite those two from the next debate too if they do what they should & don’t let Huntsman participate.

    And one more point about what Erick said about Romney in his post, jumping by 6 points is not “stagnant”. That’s just not being intellectually honest.

  • jaykali

    I dont seriously believe any Republican candidate would be ‘weak’ on illegal immigration. And look people, being a politician in freaking Texas is different than being a politician in Wyoming or something. Like 97% of the Republican-dominated Texas congress gave a thumbs up on the dream act deal and I don’t think they’re a bunch of Rinos. Anyways my concern about Perry is more that it doesn’t inspire confidence in me that he has done so bad in the debates. We need our candidate good on substance and good in debates.

    I don’t think I’ve even seen Cain spar with anybody. I realize debate skills is 1 factor of many but I think we are all looking forward to our little Republican champion taking Obama apart in the debates so I really want a good debater.

  • rightwingmom52

    if you never provide a link to anything you claim.

    If acat has ever posted a recipe in reply to you, you might be a candi-bot.

  • bs61

    support a border fence. Was the stat on one of the talk radio shows today, so that goes across party lines.

  • acat
  • freentn

    Good one!

  • http://www.erickerickson.org Erick Erickson

    From the present survey which shows Romney was at 22% at this time last month.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    We may just have to update the diary with the expanded “best of”

  • onemovoter

    If you read the actual data sheet of the Fox poll you will see that Romney only moves up 1 point.

    Not sure where you are getting the 6 point jump. If you are taking the average RCP compared to to this one poll, maybe. But that is not the way to look at polls as right now they are all over the place.

    Seems Erick is being intellectually honest here and you aren’t.

  • strangebuttrue

    His main negatives (weakness in foreign policy, some of his off-the-cuff statements he’s had to take back and/or clarify ) stem from his lack of political experience and he seems to be improving as a candidate. As long as he avoids any major gaffes and appears knowledgeable about foreign policy, he has potential to maintain his current support and gain even more support.

  • minister_of_war

    I was comparing apples to apples.

    If we go back to the FOX News poll that Erick was speaking of when Romney had 21 % in the poll, this was conducted between August 7 – 9 before Rick Perry had even announced his entry into the race.

    If we’re going to compare the August 9 poll to the FOX News poll released today, then what we’d have to say would be: “Wow, look how Rick Perry has risen in the polls!”

    On August 9, Rick Perry was only at 13 % according to FOX News, but now Rick Perry is at 19 %. He’s had a 6 % jump since then. So, he must be trending upward. Yes, Romney has gained 2 points also, but at this rate soon Rick Perry could even pass Romney & be the front runner!

    But that’s not at all what has happened in the meantime & that’s not at all what the FOX News polls are showing us now because there was another FOX News poll taken & released between these two polling dates.

    In that poll, conducted between August 29 -31, Rick Perry had risen all the way to 26 % from his 13 % in the August 7 – 9 poll that FOX News had commissioned before Perry had announced his run. And Romney had dropped from 21 % to 18 %.

    So, if the point is to show that Romney has remained stagnant, that is absurd. Romney lost support to Perry just like all other candidates, but now he has earned it back & then some. Romney’s debate performances were very good & Perry flopped during the last FOX News debate big time.

    The trends for Romney & Perry actually seem to be the opposite of one another. Romney started high, lost support after Perry entered & has come out even stronger since then. And Perry started with a respectable base of support & zoomed up in the polls only to crash down quite a bit in the latest poll.

    Yes, Herman Cain is also part of the remarkable trending in polling, but Cain is not the main story. The main story is that Romney, who had been leading until Perry joined the race, is now back on top according to FOX News. That is something that a person can’t spin any other way.

  • perry4prez

    That is the whole point, we need a Constitutionalist president who respects and honors the 10th Amendment! The whole reason that Government is spinning out of control is that people have forgotten that states are supposed to be sovereign.

  • minister_of_war

    It didn’t attach itself as I had intended. But my main point was that I was actually using the real trends in polling from FOX News & not randomly leaving out any polls.

    If you want to look at the polling charts for FOX News, here’s the link to find them on RealClearPolitics along with all other polls:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

  • perry4prez

    Are you from Texas? Texas is allowed to do what is right for Texas under the 10th Amendment so long as it is not among the powers specifically reserved for the Federal Government (state tuition is not one of them). I don’t agree with his decision but Texas is different and there is no indication he would do it nationally.

    I do agree with Governor Perry about the fence. There is no way a fence would work because there is a tool called a ladder that allows people to climb a fence, plus the Federal Government would have to use eminent domain to seize the land from farmers and ranchers who live along the Rio Grande. Although this would be Constitutional in theory it is something to be done sparingly and not as a first resort for an underlying measure that won’t work anyway. Ranchers are also big supporters of our Second Amendment right and we don’t want to get on their bad side over a minor issue.

  • ghostship

    Sure, Perry can come out try to distance himself from his idea’s on immigration and that he’s a “compassionate conservative” type of guy but we will know that for what it really is, a lie to get elected.

    Perry showed his true colors in the debate and if we believe that he won’t govern that way should he get elected then we would only be deluding ourselves.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Only an actual tie is a statistical tie.

  • paco12348

    Perry said what he meant and meant what he said regardless of what he says now. Cain says what he means and means what he says. He says we already have an immigration system and need to support it. I agree with Cain and I don’t want another group of “entitled citizens” in America. We have too many and need none.
    My go for the 2012 is Cain/Gingrich.

  • gunslingr45

    You thinking of bringing in the green crowd vote with Gingrich? How about Cain/Perry or Perry/Cain for that matter.
    Anyone but Romney (including Huntsman, yuck.) I am sick and tired of being told I have to vote for “this guy” or be stuck with “the other guy” because really I don’t see much difference between the two.
    Romney is that Brown guy from Mass, he was center of the pile, until he got to DC. Turns out IMHO that any politician from Mass is a liberal at heart.

  • Scope

    Cain told interviewer Wolf Blitzer that “Today I can’t support Rick Perry if he won the R nom. because of his position on immigration” Many want to focus on Cain’s reference to “today.” What does that mean? That he would support Perry if he changed his positions on immigration at some point in the future? One of the big problems I have with his comment is that he holds almost exactly the same views on immigration. According to speeches Cain has been giving on immigration, some quotes from those speeches are listed at the linked site.

    Cain likes to boil his positions down to a number of points. He has repeated his 3 point immigration plan on a number of occasions.

    1. Secure the borders (Perry is for securing the borders, and was actually in a position to have direct knowledge of how to do that).

    2. Follow the immigration laws already on the books (Perry has already said the same).

    3. Follow the existing laws on the path to citizenship. Cain has never addressed the issue of what you do with the illegals already here. Does he believe we should deport every illegal, and how will he go about doing that?

    In one of his speeches, Cain said that the issue should be left up to the states to deal with. Perry has already said that the Texas Dream Act was a states way of dealing with the problem. Where is Cain’s beef with Perry’s positions? Perry has said repeatedly that the Texas legislature passed the Dream Act with on 4 dissenting votes. How is that not a state doing what it felt best for it’s citizens?

    I have said repeatedly that I really like Cain, and that I respected him for staying out of the fray at the debates, and did not participate in the Perry pile ons. Was he piling on Perry with his statements about not supporting Perry?

    Apparently Palin said he was the flavor of the week, and Cain just made a joke of it. Cain also said that he would chose Romney as his VP if he adopted his 999 plan. What is he asking Perry to change when his positions are near identical on immigration?

    Seems that Cain gets tripped up in the Blitzer interviews. Back in June he told Blitzer that “gun control was a states issue” ?????no lie. Look it up.

    Let the vetting begin, and put Cain under the same magnifying glass that Perry and some others have been put under. If Perry is held responsible for dumb things he says, so to should Cain get the same treatment.

  • tyman

    So Cain thinks Obama is a better choice? I had to look that up for myself.

    I still can’t believe my eyes when I read the quote again.

    To me, this is over the top that a supposed conservative wouldn’t support Perry, but he would support Romney???

    If Cain, had been in political office, you really wonder just what he would have done vs. what he says never having held elected office.

    If the next debate on CNN, I can guarantee that this will be a question asked of Herb. “Mr. Cain, you’ve said that you cannot support Gov. Perry were he to be the Republican nominee? Do you stand by that?”.

    This may be a great opportunity for Perry to put Herb on the defense and get him to just state how he is different on immigration than Gov. Perry, and what he knows as a private citizen that Gov. Perry doesn’t as governor of the state with the largest border with Mexico, and 2nd largest Latino population.

  • http://nerds4cain.com Brookhaven

    “Building a border fence is stupid.” — Rick Perry

    Had he said “I support securing the border, but building a boarder fence is impractical, because …” and then given 3-4 logical reasons there wouldn’t have been any flap at all.

    You don’t pick up new supporters by calling their ideas stupid.

  • gawken

    Any sports fan is well aware of the dreaded SI cover jinx? A team, or an individual athlete that appears on the cover is all but guaranteed of imploding in the near future.

    Perry made his debut on the national stage at the RedState conference where he announced his candidacy for the WH. Since then, after an initial success, he’s pretty much imploded.

    Is there a connection?

  • Aaron Gardner

    Here is what Perry said at the Reagan Debate:

    Well, the first thing you need to do is have boots on the ground. We’ve had a request in to this administration since 2009 for 1,000 border patrol agents or National Guard troops, and working towards 3,000 border patrol. That’s just on the Texas border. There’s another 50% more for the entire Mexican border. So you can secure the border, but it requires a commitment of the federal government of putting those boots on the ground, the aviation assets in the air. We think predator drones could be flown, that real-time information coming down to the local and the state and the federal law enforcement. And you can secure the border. And at that particular point in time, then you can have an intellectually appropriate discussion about immigration reform. For the President to go to El Paso, Texas, and say that the border is safer than it’s ever been, either he has some of the poorest intel in history, or he was an abject liar. It is not safe on that border.

    Here is what he said at the Tea Party Debate:

    There’s not anybody on this stage that’s had to deal with the issue of border security more than I have, with 1,200 miles of border with Mexico. And our federal government has been an abject failure at securing our border. We’ve had to spend some $400 million of Texas taxpayer dollars to send Texas Ranger recon teams down there. But the idea that you’re going to build a wall from Brownsville to El Paso and go left for another 800 miles to Tijuana is just not reality. What you have to have is boots on the ground. You’ve got to have 450 Border Patrol agents trained up, 1,500 National Guard troops. You’ve got to have the aviation assets in the air putting real-time information down to the law enforcement. We understand and know how to secure that border, but we can’t do it alone. And the federal government has to step up and do what their constitutional duty is, and that is to secure the border with Mexico.

    These answers can be found here.

    Now, I think it would be appropriate for you to quit lying about the candidates positions at this point.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Perry’s still polling ahead of Cain. He’s even polling ahead of Romney in the head to head matchup in Ohio. That’s not imploding.

  • msjallen

    of Americans don’t realize is that you CAN’T build a fence all along the border of Texas. I know, I have been to areas along the border that a fence would NOT work. Putting troops (with loaded guns) on the ground and in the air along the areas where illegals cross is the best solution. Fences can be climbed!
    Texas needs manpower and it would be great if we could warn Mexico that we will shoot to kill so the illegals will stay on their side of the fence. Our citizens need to be protected and not have to live in fear of those who seek to destroy our land and economy.

  • http://nerds4cain.com Brookhaven

    (1) My eyes glazed over reading that. Longwinded explinations of that sort are the stock and trade of politicians who use them to obfiscate the facts.

    (2) ?But the idea that you?re going to build a wall from Brownsville to El Paso is just — it?s ridiculous on its face.”

    ?If you say that we should not educate children who have come into our state for no other reason than they have been brought there by no fault of their own, I don?t think you have a heart,?

    Calling an idea “ridiculous on its face” is so much different than calling someone stupid. Heck, if someone said an idea of mine was “ridiculous on its face” it certainly wouldn’t make me feel like they were calling me stupid.

    (2) Do you remember the mini tea party of 2007?

    Now that we’ve gotten the sarcasm and personal attacks out of the way, can we get back to talking facts?

    The immigration reform attempt of 2007 is where the Perry supporters are stepping into it. Remember, George Bush was pushing immigration reform (which amounted to actual amnesty) and making snarky, demeaning remarks about Republican voters that opposed it?

    It would have gone through, but grass-roots opposition to it rose up seemingly out of nowhere. I call it the mini tea party movement, because it set the stage for the later tea party movement.

    There is a huge disconnect between GOP leadership and GOP voters when it comes to illegal immigration, and GOP voters know it. Such a big disconnect that it has become a hot button issue for a significant percentage of GOP voters. They do not want another George Bush when it comes to illegal immigration. The don’t want another president that tells them their opposition to illegal immigration is somehow illegitimate and that they should just shut up about it.

    Perry just stepped in it. He still has time to get out of it, I don’t think the damage is permanent. But smart remarks, name calling, saying it’s a 10th amendment issue, or a Texas thing and you wouldn’t understand are NOT helping. It’s just digging the hole deeper.

  • msjallen

    have government experience but he can sure get a good cabinet together to help him. He is smart enough to know this.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Then you go on to put out more “quotes” with no cites to where these supposed “quotes” come from.

    Then you call Perry Bush and claim he supports amnesty.

    Maybe you should quit asking for detailed positions if all they do is make your eyes glaze over.

  • mspector

    Is that the statement remains unexplained (and inexplicable) unless he really meant it.

    Why would a man who understands the TEA Party base and the depth of sentiment on the immigration make such a statement? Because he was in pain? Because he was tired? Because he was addled under pressure? Wow. Any excuse you can think of makes Perry look worse.

    The only explanation that does not weaken the man is that he actually meant it: The policy is a matter of Texas’ compassion for a segment of its population, and only somebody without a heart — or who did not want to be reelected as governor — would oppose it. We could and would argue about that view, but at least we would be having an honest argument about an honestly-held position. With first the statement and then the lame apology Perry evaded that, and in the process painted himself as more than a bit of a weasel.

  • mspector

    Early in 2008 Obama’s campaign was stuck in neutral; Billary was ahead by something like 18 to 20 points and looked pretty much like a lock. Many things happened (among other things liberals decided they would rather elect the historic “first black” rather than the historic “first woman”), but on the money front a small group of liberal millionaires and billionaires in Hollywood decided he was the guy and dumped a huge infusion of cash and connections into his campaign. The rest is history.

    Cain is a great campaigner. He energizes crowds in a genuine way. People meet him, see him, hear him, like him. Somebody on the Republican side needs to do for him what happened with Obama: make a decision and put their money down. The rest will follow. If not Cain, who? If not now, when?

  • Scope

    on illegal immigration.

    On June 11, 2007, Cain wrote-

    ?Namely, secure the borders convincingly, expand the temporary worker program for skilled legal immigrants, establish a reliable legal immigrant identification program and then propose a reasonable program for the 12 million (and counting) illegal persons who broke our laws to get here, but not amnesty.?

    How different is that position than the one proposed in 2007? He says “propose a reasonable program for the 12 million and counting illegal persons who broke our laws to get here, but no amnesty.” What does he or has he come up with as a solution to those already here?

    You said-

    “But smart remarks, name calling, saying it?s a 10th amendment issue, or a Texas thing and you wouldn?t understand are NOT helping. It?s just digging the hole deeper.”

    Are you aware of the number of times that Cain has said it is a “states issue”?

    “When Cain was asked at the 2011 Iowa Straw poll on Aug. 11, about his remarks that we needed to construct a 20ft high electrified fence along the US-Mexican border, he replied:

    “Americans have got to learn to take a joke. We must secure the border with whatever means are necessary. Secondly, enforce the laws that are already there. Thirdly, promote the path to citizenship that is already there. We have a path to citizenship for illegal aliens, it’s called legal immigration. Fourth, I agree with empowering the states and allowing them to deal with that issue. America can be a nation of high fences and wide open doors.”

    More direct quotes below-

  • Scope

    At the debate on Sept. 7, 2011 Cain said-

    “We need to enforce the laws that are already there, and the way we do it, empower the states. I believe that the people closest to the problem are the best ones to be able to solve that problem. Empower the states to do what the federal government hasn’t done, won’t do.”

    On March 20, 2011 at CPAC Cain said almost the same thing as he did in the debate. “Empower the states that are willing to do what the federal government will not and cannot do.”

    So your argument that “saying it?s a 10th amendment issue, or a Texas thing and you wouldn?t understand are NOT helping. It?s just digging the hole deeper.” How is what Cain has been saying any different than Perry saying it’s a 10th amendment issue or a Texas thing?

    I understand you are a die hard Cain supporter and that’s fine, but, calling Perry out for saying what he has, but not also calling Cain out for saying similar things is wrong. If Cain said several times to allow those closest to the problem to solve the issues, what is his gripe for Perry pointing out that it was the state legislature that passed the Texas Dream Act with only 4 dissenting votes. Perry could not have vetoed the bill if he wanted to, as the state spoke.

    If anything Cain has changed his immigration positions from what he wrote in 2007 to today.

  • http://nerds4cain.com Brookhaven

    Stating why you think a candidate has a problem, and how you think they can fix it is actually a positive.

    If you think pointing out where Perry (and his supporters) have misstepped, and what would be a more positive way to handle it is bad, well….

    Immigratiion is a hot button issue with a lot of GOP voters. That’s jus the way it is.

  • Aaron Gardner

    That’s what I think.

  • http://nerds4cain.com Brookhaven

    (1) Those are Perry’s quotes. Look it up.

    (2) I didn’t say Perry had the exact same immigration position as Bush. I said Perry’s statements and how he is handling critics of his immigration policy reminds people of Bush, and that is causing red flags to go up.

  • Aaron Gardner

    It is incumbent upon you to source your quotes, not me.

  • ihateliberals

    I look and listen to the post here and in other media sites I can’t seem to find and real conservatism anymore. the candidates that everyone are a-buzz about are really close to any conservative that I have known in the past. Everyone heckles me when I say I am a Ronald Reagan Conservative. I am in my 60′s and have voted in every election since Lyndon Johnson and Imsut say that After Reagan left GHW Bush managed to tear down wh the had built in less than four years. Bush was the First RINO I had ever met and he set out to destroy conservatives. He hated Reagan and never agreed with hs policies even after he saw them work. My conclusion is that Bush being a RINO is actually a far right Progressive Liberal. That basically is what a RINO is. his son was one, Jeb is one they are conservatives by any standards I have known.

    Now here we are in the most important election in our history and wwe can’t support any real conservatives. CAin may come close to one. Bachman is definitely one, Tim Pawlenty and everyone in the media was so afraid of these people they have demonized them and they have fallen by the way-side. It looks to me like we are trying our best to keep Hussein Barrack Obama for a second term. not one of the front runners has better then a 50/50 chance to win and when you are playing against the most evil president this country has ever known those aren’t very good odds. All Obama has to do is one big thing in the last week of the elections that boost him 2 points into the lead and HE WINS. Not too many people seem to be cognizant of this. the entire RINO (GOP) Party thinks that because his poll numbers are so low that anyone one that runs against him can win. These people are all too young to remember Dewy vs. Truman in 1948. I remember my Dad cursing and yelling because Truman ended up wining. All the polls etc showed Dewy ahead. didn’t happen then and the possibility of it happening now is real.

    What scares me more now is that because we don’t have a very good selection of candidates is that once the Party settles on one this spring the Democrats will decide whether to keep Obama or not. If Obama is dumped and our selection is Cain, Perry or Romney we lose big time. The reason is that the Independents and moderates will flock back to the Democratic party no matter what candidate they pick.

    What is the fascination with RINO candidates? Why can’t the conservatives look past the demonetization perpetrated by the media and the democrats and we select a good conservative Constitution loving Republican? For the first time in my life i fear for the continuation of America. My five kids fought me for years calling me heartless towards people because I was a Republican. That is what they were taught in school. Now that they re all grown up and have families of thier own they hve converted to the Right party. One of my son’s is a police officer in the DC area. He experiences the evil of liberals everyday. One daughter and my wife are teachers and they have to try to teach in a liberal driven environment and to stay out of trouble. these young people under 40 have been brain washed throughout school and while many of them are seeing the light on liberals they still can’t see through a RINO. A liberal is actually better to deal with than a RINO. At least with the liberal you know where they stand. A RINO will throw you under the bus in a heart beat.

  • kevinj84

    Last time around, Huckabee, with a much worse immigration policy in Arkansas, came in 3rd. I don’t believe immigration is Perry’s problem. It’s selling it to the people that vote. I still support Perry because I understand the policy and his position in relation to it. I also give the benefit of the doubt, because he had back surgery recently and a combination of pain killers and standing for 2 hrs. could have an effect on his debating style. He has won elections 10 for 10. With a record like that (bet silentcal and freetn wish their boy had the same record), you simply cannot write him off.

    Just my 2 cents. Take it for what it’s worth.

  • kevinj84

    for including you in my above post in reference to the “Mitt”.

  • kevinj84

    for NOT having the top strategists on your team. Everyone agreed that Ed Rollins is one of the best in the business. But look where Michelle is now. Perry has a good chance because his team has been in place for years. There IS something to be said for having a team that knows how to work together. Cain is just a wait and see kind of candidate. Can he get his message out and his name recognition up? If all the polls are correct and the media keeps his name on the front page, then I think the answer to that question is yes, too.