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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

The CNN Debate: Where Has This Perry Been?

My quick thoughts before I get back on radio (you can listen and call in):

1. Where has this Rick Perry been? Finally, the guy showed up with unscripted, from the gut answers. The few scripted answers fell flat (see e.g. Jeffres). The rest were good. He’s not the best debater. But he certainly did not lose that debate.

2. Rick Santorum is too angry to be President and came across as a jerk to everyone. Rick Santorum conveniently forgot to mention he got his butt kicked in Pennsylvania, was not a fiscal conservative, and endorsed Arlen Specter over Pat Toomey.

3. This debate hurts Mitt Romney more than anyone else. Why? Because the candidates started piling on him. A lot of polling seemed to indicate that voters were getting ready to settle. This pile on and the Newt-Santorum-Cain-Perry pile on of Romney “lying” will keep voters from settling for him. He got flustered tonight for the first time. Perry got under his skin. I don’t know where so many enthusiastic Romney supporters came from, but though he was cheered on stage by the crowd, he was clearly flustered.

4. As the candidates were piling on Romney for Romneycare, Captain Stubing . . . er . . . Michele Bachmann . . . interjected and totally shut down that line of attack. Was she returning the favor for Mitt’s lifeline at the last debate?

5. Herman Cain continues to shine as the great optimist. He stayed upbeat with a sense of humor. But this debate showed his serious weak point — foreign policy. He is going to have to seriously, seriously beef up by the next CNN debate, which will be a foreign policy debate.

6. Newt Gingrich, hands down, won the debate. He was confrontational, but polite. He was good on faith issues. He really hit every answer out of the park, though nuclear power is his and everyone else’s ethanol.

I suspect Perry saved himself tonight. Gingrich will go up a bit, probably drawn from some Cain votes. Romney will stagnate. Santorum and Bachmann will go down. Paul will hold steady.

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COMMENTS

  • sethellis

    But he didn’t win the nomination. Although he made a huge improvement over the past debates, I think his combative nature hurts him. The reality TV public pays more attention to the fights, and Romney was able to respond well. His comment that “if you want to be president of the united states you need to learn…” will get a lot of air play. This plays to Romney’s advantage.

  • txindependent

    The other good news is a lot of people watch CNN.

  • cajungirl2012

    I thought Perry was going to finish Mitt off. Then Mitt asked Cooper to save him.

    Cain and Gitmo. Yikes. I don’t have the words.

    CNN – much better debate than Fox. No contest.

  • http://www.planettron.com NickDeringer

    Cain with his “apples and oranges” answer made him look like he hasn’t thought out his 9-9-9 very well. He needed to come back with facts and figures not nursery rimes.

  • tailfins1959

    If he gets elected, we can avoid a national Pete Wilson effect.

  • domingos

    Its seems that the spin machines claims Romney is hurt after every debate, but after a few days the polls vindicate him.

    Perry looked provincial, angry. Too much swagger. It wont go over well with middle America.

    Romney rised above the fray and stayed with big themes and attacked Obama. Bachmann did too but she is irrelevant.

  • conservativemusician

    Cain looked unsure of himself tonight. He is great on the stump with his populist rhetoric, but he can’t back up his plan with specifics. All he kept saying was everyone was misunderstood the specifics, but if he can’t explain the details, then who will? I also found if annoying how he kept saying go to my website, go to my website to get the details. Not very impressive.

  • bonnman

    He seemed more comfortable and genuine. Romney looked more stiff than usual and lost confidence when under pressure. And while Cain is likeable he just doesn’t have it.

  • tailfins1959

    Cain is just begging to be called fruity and nutty.

  • craigbardo

    When he turned on Obama’s green goo and pushed Cooper aside to boot.

    Too bad Newt is so tarnished, they should all take lessons from him. I love Michelle Bachman but it seems that she’s vying for the Romney VP sweepstakes. I agree with Erick and have been saying for a while, Santorum is too angry.

    They piled on Cain for a while, it will be interesting if he takes Moore’s advice and goes for a payroll tax instead of consumption tax, will he get hammered for flip flopping if he does and yes, he’s got to get some foreign policy coaching.

    Ron Paul had his least offensive performance to date. Perry got back in the game for the non-Romney vote tonight. Romney has pockets of support but nothing broad based. The contest won’t settle until there’s a definitive non-Romney and that contest seems to be down to Perry v. Cain, winner take all.

  • snowshooze

    Always has the best comebacks of all.
    He took a shot at Cooper too, which was well deserved.
    I didn’t see it all, just the last 10 minutes..
    Michelle seemed to do very well for herself.
    Most troubling.. Romney was applauded to levels I cannot account for. Ok..I do not like him. I tyhink everything he says is a lie, as in everything he said about Jeffress. He twisted the words, and it was not a mistake. He did it on purpose, and Perry should pay more attention.
    I’d rather Perry came out and said Romney was a liar, rather than softballing him. It is a waste of time to beat around the bush.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    a pretty good, conservative choice.

  • Robbrou

    Perry did better? Big deal! It’s not like he had to improve much to do “better” than his last abysmal debate performances. I was very excited when he entered the race. Now I think we nominate him at our own risk. Presidential debates do matter and Obama will make him look like a fool.

    The dems will be able to ang the “Dumb Texan” sign around Perry’s neck and conjure up meomries of GWB. Maybe that’s not fair… but it will resonate. Remember 1/2 the voting public has below average intelligence and are easily swayed by appearances.

  • lucasblack

    I didn’t think Perry came across well at all. He seemed kind of pissy to me when he was on attack and the rest of the time he was his usual, stumbling self with awkward pauses like in the Mormon question.
    I scored it Romney-Gold, Cain-Silver and Newt-Bronze. I would love to see Newt get a bit of lift out of this in the next month, but I think right now we will have a Cain-Romney race with Perry using his money to try to get back into it. But $ didn’t much help Phil Gramm and I’m not sure it will do it for Perry, either.

  • jonerik

    That line just sounds like more of the Romney style of jerkiness. Think about it, Perry took it too Romney tonight, but not in ways anyone, especially Romney would expect. At first the whole illegal gardner line didn’t seem like much of anything. But Romney was clearly surprised, and then flustered. So its not always the attack that stumps a candidate, but often the response, which in this case was rather un-presidential, totally negating his ‘if you want to be President…’ schtick.

  • lucasblack

    Did you notice he mangled the word ‘nuclear’ the same way Bush II did? Yea, I was open to Perry when he got in, but now he’s disqualified himself to me. Only Bachmann is below him on my list. I’d quicker vote for Buddy Roemer.

  • Bill S

    with GWB, didn’t it?

    Worked great with Reagan, too.

    :eye roll:

  • conservativemusician

    Perry shur isss dum…like a fox.

  • Danielle Davis (ocleverone)

    Obviously, you haven’t listened to Obama speak when off the teleprompter reservation.

  • cajungirl2012

    Please, you are embarrassing. Mitt sucked. Get over it. It happens.

  • craigbardo

    Since we now know the architects of Cain’s plan, Stephen Moore and Arthur Laffer, it’s hard to argue that the plan is not sound and based on well defined conservative principles. The take down is political because Perry and Romney both were wrong from a policy perspective.

  • http://electionsanalysis.blog.com paint_it_red

    Like Erick said, Newt won the debate. He comes off as Presidential, he is successfully billing himself as the “substance” candidate, and his conservatism is not in question. I really think the other candidates are secretly afraid of attacking him at all. He has remained above the bickering fray, and he is the one who has taken the media to task for their fight-picking nonsense.

    A primary election is like a courtship. Going in we need to have two eyes wide open. After a nominee is selected, we’re in the marriage phase – have one eye half shut. In other words, though I’ll support whoever the nominee is, at this time I think its fair to criticize. Romney is not conservative enough for me, I don’t trust him. If he was sincerely converted to Pro-Life and other conservative stances, he would be more forceful about it. That he’s not is the proof in the pudding. He’ll never get above 25% without so committing himself. Cain’s 9-9-9 has problems as does his foreign policy in my mind, but there is a lot to like there too. Santorum is an ex-Senator. He is not ripe for this stage. Bachmann is a great conservative, but she is about as inexperienced as Obama. Ron Paul makes some great points, but I can’t help feeling he could lead to the end of the republic. Perry, even in his best debate tonight, is not eloquent. I shudder when I think of him in a debate against Obama. I could heartily support him, but I just don’t see him winning a national campaign. Like Palin, he’s been a great governor, and like Palin, the media will eat him and his speaking style alive. I sincerely hope he can show more and prove me wrong, but he’s not there yet. Gingrich had personal life problems, but I can live with that.

  • cajungirl2012

    Sad. Can’t even give Perry credit. Typical Romney supporter.

  • ThePoliticalHat

    The bickering was horrendous, and Cooper was smiling as he egged them on.

    Perry did not win it — not by a mile. He, along with Romney and Santorum were bickering like school children, and his “gotcha” question was pathetic. He may have the money, but he is far too easy of a target for Obama.

    Romney also did terrible. I no longer believe that he’s necessarily defeat Obama in a debate. His bickering and inability to cut the albatross of Romneycare from his neck has hurt him.

    Cain was not able to defend his “9-9-9″ plan, particularly the sales tax portion. If he is the nominee, Obama will turn this election from a referendum on himself, to a referendum on adding a national sales tax in addition to a federal income tax.

    Santorum was whiny and the biggest bickerer. While he always has something good to say about the importance of family, he has yet again shown he does not have the temperament to be either the nominee nor the president.

    Ron Paul was Ron Paul. The sad part of this debate is that he came across as more presidential then the aforementioned candidates.

    Bachman hasn’t done anything to bring her back up to the top tier. She didn’t do anything particularly stupid, but it is easy to look competent compared to the bickering that went on.

    Gingrich, as before, did best in the debate, though even he suffered a zinger (i.e. the individual mandate quip by Romney). He is the only candidate that could verbally butt-kick Obama and his silver-forked tongue. Though he has baggage and his occasional stupid idea, he is still the best articulator of conservative first principles; since this election, more then any other in recent memory, will be about first principles, this is a big plus for him. I also like the idea of 21 hours of LIttle Barry Obama getting his butt handed to him in 7 Lincoln-Douglas style debates.

    tl;dr WORST DEBATE EVER; Santorum and Bachman need to be dropped from future debates; the person who allowed Anderson Cooper to be the “moderator” should lose his job.

  • redmymind

    “Nice try.”

  • txindependent

    ..for Perry to get post-debate attention. They are spending a lot of time replaying those moments. It will help him in the long run.

  • http://www.planettron.com NickDeringer

    Not good. Cain hasn’t thought out his positions very well and it shows.

    Newt looked the best over all tonight.

  • atlasshrugs

    right now I see the race being between Perry and Romney. I agree that Perrys debate performances have been poor, but tonight he did pretty well.

    Romney seems to programmed, while Perrys answers seemed to come from the gut.

  • lucasblack

    I’m a Newt supporter.

  • izoneguy

    999 is a bomb

  • cajungirl2012

    Period.

  • miconservative

    When Perry zinged him for hiring illegals to mow his lawn and doing nothing about it for a year and until the newspaper found out was Romney saying he told the lawn mowing company “I am running for office, I can’t have illegals working here.” He didn’t say he couldn’t have them working there because it was wrong, he couldn’t have them working there because he was running for office.

    Romney was more than happy to take the cut rate lawn mowing of illegals as long as no one found out about it, but the second the newspaper found out they had to go. The guy is full of it.

  • Aaron Gardner

    The Rom-Bots are a sad breed.

  • http://www.planettron.com NickDeringer

    What terrible answer. A tax is a tax. Are you going to repeal all the states’ sales taxes or not. In MA we already pay 5%. Add 9% to that and now were looking at 14%?????

    Cainu didn’t answer the question.

  • bonnman

    Romney has just been sitting back while Perry showed some real spirit tonight.

  • APA Guy

    I just LOVE how Rick Perry is castigated for being unengaged when he doesn’t fire back at the endless attacks against him, yet is somehow “pissy” when he throws roundhouse rights and knocks flat the people who attacked him.

    This was BY FAR Rick Perry’s best performance. I predict he will move back up in the polls…and that we’ll have a statistical 3-way tie by the end of the weekend polling.

  • jonerik

    Mmmm hmmm. So?! There’s surely nothing wrong with supporting your preferred candidate with passion, is there? I definitely am one of his supporters, and I just happen to read Red State. Perry had a good debate tonight and he was MUCH better than his previous debates.

    By the time the Presidential debates roll around Perry will have honed his skills. I liked his feistiness in this debate. He took it directly at Romney and never flinched. If Perry were the second coming of Daniel Webster in debates “they” would still pin the dumb Texan label on him.

    One more thing, Perry is a great governor, he just is. You can quibble around the edges on this policy or that, but he has been the nation’s best governor over the past decade. He hasn’t debated much though and certainly not national debates. I happen to see him getting his sea legs right before our eyes, and in the national spotlight.

  • domingos

    Perry was lucky just to get shots off. His supporters take that with so much heart that they are overreacting.

    Sarah Palin agreed with Greta that he threw a cheap shot and his exchanges were unpresidential. Perry did not look like a president tonight. He will not inspire anyone.

  • miconservative

    Romney said nothing when he first found out a year earlier, but when the newspaper found out Romney said, “I am running for office I can’t have illegals working here.” He didn’t say because it is wrong, he enjoyed the cut rate prices until the newspaper found out.

  • sethellis

    I agree that he looked surprised. I think the thing is that we all assumed that this issue was resolved during the last primary when it was brought up.

    However, I still maintain that all the public will see is that one exchange. They’ll just see Romney explaining how debates work, and standing up for his right to speak uninterpreted. We’ve all had it happen to us. You’re trying to lay out your position and your opponent just tries to shout you down. Perry being that person trying to shout someone else down makes him look unpresidential. Romney’s response and ability to hold his ground on the other hand was something I think we all wish we could do as effectively when placed in the same situation.

  • sethellis

    I agree that he looked surprised. I think the thing is that we all assumed that this issue was resolved during the last primary when it was brought up.

    However, I still maintain that all the public will see is that one exchange. They?ll just see Romney explaining how debates work, and standing up for his right to speak uninterpreted. We?ve all had it happen to us. You?re trying to lay out your position and your opponent just tries to shout you down. Perry being that person trying to shout someone else down makes him look unpresidential. Romney?s response and ability to hold his ground on the other hand was something I think we all wish we could do as effectively when placed in the same situation.

  • paladin1

    with these words,”Remember 1/2 the voting public has below average intelligence and are easily swayed by appearances”.

  • APA Guy

    Perry easily got the better of him and showed many of us what we had hoped to see from him all along.

    If he debates this well the rest of the way, he’ll win the nomination…no question in my mind,

  • atlasshrugs

    Picture Gingrich in a debate with Obama ?

  • conservativemusician

  • redmymind

    CNN is in the tank for Romney so that he gets nominated and then gets soundly beaten by BHO in 2012. Liberals butter up and “protect” the GOP candidates who have the best chance of losing to their Anointed One.

    BTW, got a good laugh out of the phony Romney crowd that applauded EVER single spittle that came out of the snake oil salesman’s slithery mouth. Very obvious where they all came from.

    “Oh save me, Anderson Copper 180!”

  • APA Guy

    nt

  • atlasshrugs

    I still like Perry to be the nominee but Gingrich/Perry would do.

  • txpat

    This is the guy you want that’s a scrapper who not going to let someone roll him.
    He shows he can be tough and can stand his ground.
    He will be a fighter for conservative values, and fight to get government off our backs out of the way to get this country moving again.

  • jonerik

    I honestly thought that was a weak line of attack by Perry when he brought that up. I figured, ‘Oh, Romney will easily swat that away.’ But no, he showed his true colors, as you point out. Its rare that you can get a candidate to do that in a debate. But there it was, Romney thinking of his political aspirations instead of the suspect morals of hiring low-cost illegals.

  • cajungirl2012

    Really? Newt was gold. Mitt choked.

  • gekster

    has below average intelligence and are easily swayed
    by appearances juthe same as you.

  • atlasshrugs

    Gingrich’s personal baggage pales in comparison to Romney’s political baggage.

  • vicfirth

    Jeeze…anyone else feel like Santorum acted like a little middle school weasel? What is he 13 years old?

  • florida772

    How can you say Romney didn’t win the debate? He picked apart 999 and responded to Perry’s cheap shots especially when he said Rick’s just frustrated about a couple of bad debate performances.

  • APA Guy

    Romney didn’t rise above anything. He looked like a flustered high school debater. Perry took him apart…period.

  • jonerik

    The public won’t see that as Romney being a scold and lecturing people about how to keep the rules? People talk over eachother in debates all the time and almost always go over their allotted time. So why doesn’t this paint Romney as the highly unlikeable finger wagging schoolmarm?

  • runner12

    I think initially his attacks on Romney were good, but later on he needed to back off. His actual answers to the questions were quite good. He hit a home run with talking about defunding the UN. For Perry, it was a definite win.

    Gingrich, as usual, was great. There is no doubt that he is the best debator.

    Cain had some weak points including foreign policy and defending his 9-9-9 plan. But he did have some high points and his plain-spoken rhetoric played well for him.

    Santorum made a few good points, but he is so shrill and angry that he becomes irritating.

    Bachmann was stellar on the tax issues (no surprise) and began the debate with very substantive points. But then she fell back into her old flaws with debating. Bailing out Mitt when he was finally getting questioned on RomneyCare was not good.

    Tonight Mittens looked angry at times. The shot about Perry’s debate performances was low and immature. He acted shocked that anyone would question him on his record. He made a few good points, but my overall impression of him was poor.

    Paul as always was a mixed bag. He made a few good points and then others that were downright batty. Some of his positions just do not make much sense.

    Here is where I would rank them in order:

    Newt
    Perry
    Romney
    Paul
    Bachman
    Santorum

  • Right_Again

    The federal government cannot repeal the MA sales tax.

    Cain was absolutely right. You will pay that whether his plan passes or not. He will never have any ability to repeal it unless he moves to your State and runs for public office.

    I personally don’t like the sales tax component of his plan. I think he should have stuck with the revenue stream to which we are already accustomed: the payroll tax. Reducing it to 9% from the current rate would have been an easier sell.

    His “apples and oranges” comments were also perfectly correct. His plan is completely different than our current system.

  • texas214

    winners and losers; looking in the eyes eyes of Perry and Romney during their exchange and Romney vs. Cain, was that Romney looked like the aggressor and the others looked very defensive. In picking a candidate I want the person who will go for the jugular when attacked. Romney, when attacked hit below the belt, like the person I’ve been looking for in these debates.

  • texas214

    winners and losers; looking in the eyes eyes of Perry and Romney during their exchange and Romney vs. Cain, was that Romney looked like the aggressor and the others looked very defensive. In picking a candidate I want the person who will go for the jugular when attacked. Romney, when attacked hit below the belt, like the person I’ve been looking for in these debates.

  • conservativemusician

    Than to woman up and run for office and go through the process of getting vetted, which she never had the stomach for. Perry kicked Romney’s butt tonight…period.

  • joayn

    resort to the “you were Algore’s campaign manager” neener, neener dig. The Mitt’s cage was definitely rattled by that dumb ol’ Perry.

  • APA Guy

    “Romney seems to programmed, while Perrys answers seemed to come from the gut”

    This is what the country loved about Bush when elections rolled around. He was genuine…the real deal. You knew he believed in what he was doing, for better for worse.

    Perry has that same genuine quality, but he strikes me as a little stronger where conservative principles are concerned. He also has some bite…as Romney found out the hard way tonight.

  • baracksolyndraobama

    Gov. Perry was horrible. He stammered and stuttered tonight on a village idiot level. Reminds me of my study abroad experience in Chile. Except, I was trying to learn a foreign language. Perry is toast. I say this as one who was a backer weeks ago.

    Perry’s implosion provides an opening for Newt Gingrich (Cain’s Gitmo response does the same). I have a feeling that his 15 mins are at hand. Make the most of it Mr. Speaker.

    As a matter of fact, I think Perry is so far gone in terms of electability, that he should bow out and endorse Gingrich. No joke. It will take such collusion for our nominee to be one with conservative street cred.

    All that said, if Mitt Romney is the nominee, I will not only vote for him, but will carry as many as possible to the polls to do the same 11/6/12.

  • carolina

    I ‘trust’ Perry to be the best president out of this group – because I have more trust in his upbringing, experience, character, and values. Whether or not Perry’s character can shine through the primary process, or not …… remains to be seen.

    I like Cain OK, but fear his lack of political experience will be his undoing.

    Romney is just another establishment sponsored professional politician imo. ugh His main plus is that he is NOT Obama.

    I sure hope we get some more solid conservative Senators in 2012. We need all of the constitutional conservatives we can get in DC.

  • lucasblack

    I don’t mind attacks, but I thought Lawngate was an extremely weak thing to aim at. And then he didn’t want to let Romney respond.

  • texas214

    you could see in their eyes Romney had ther upper hand with Perry.

  • APA Guy

    That’s why.

  • sethellis

    Cain has stuck to what he said the first time: “The problem with that analysis is that it is incorrect”.

    Almost every organization that has looked at his plan says the same thing. It’s a tax increase. There’s a certain credibility issue when EVERYONE is saying you’re wrong.

  • lucasblack

    That was based on how I saw it effecting their campaign. I don’t think Romney was hurt and nor Cain very much. Newt gained a bit more ground back, but he needs more before he’s back in the 1st level. I’m hoping he is able to continue to gain in the polls.

  • florida772

    was standing his ground

  • rudyardkipling

    That was my first thought. It actually indicates his mindset pretty clearly: my actions (and words?) should be examined not for what they are, but how they’ll LOOK when I’m running for office…

  • txpat

    I see a future flip flop on that.

  • APA Guy

    Sheesh…Ron Paul has a better grasp on reality than you do with that “analysis”. You definitely either watched a different debate than the rest of us or were drunk when you wrote this.

  • jonerik

    Did you get your body language reading skills diploma from the University of the Cayman Islands?

    When attacked, Romney looked like someone had just stolen his wallet.

  • intensity

    …Perry had a good night tonight. He was strong on his opinions and went after what he believed in.

    I think Romny got mauled tonight. He was nothing but defense, but looked on the shorter end of the stick in most dialogues.

    Cain did OK. But I reallly think this cross-examination of his 9-9-9 plan by all other candidates and Cooper will lead to more investigations and questions about it’s credibility and will bring him down. Just my opinion.

    Peace all.

  • lucasblack

    You left out Cain in your list.

  • lucasblack

    Were you studying the Chilean Model?

  • APA Guy

    He has been given a pass on issues like his illegal immigrant disgrace for far too long because an ignorant few believe they have a SOL.

    Tonight he got a dose of what he needed to feel for a very long time. He was vetted on a national stage…and he looked flustered.

    Perry looked confident and ready for a fight…and you can bet the rest of the field took note of it because every analyst on every channel – including Fox News – is saying the same thing.

  • gekster

    with a picture of Mitt on the lens.

  • Right_Again

    It does not serve us well to have one of our candidates look as though he would like to punch another of our candidates. Perry looked that way tonight.

    Gingrich is right, as are you, in stating that such bickering serves the media well. They’ll replay it for days. It also serves Obama well.

    Our candidates need to channel their anger at Obama, not each other.

  • rudyardkipling

    While Lawngate may not be the biggest issue, getting Romney to say he can’t have illegals because ‘I’m running for office’ was a win by Perry.

  • texas214

    after this debate Romney and Newt. The nominee will have to be able not only to deal with Obama, but the MSM. So far Perry has be apologetic for his debate performances, not a good trait, and Cain has to modiffy and every remark before sundown.

    Newt and Romney are the only ones who have stood by by their past and reduced the others to also rans.

  • florida772

    “MSM trying to keep Perry alive because they want a horse race. It’s Romney. It’s over. CNN returns to mediocre ratings”

  • joayn

    candidate hits below the belt? Yikes!

  • conservativemusician

    Now the fight for the nomination has really begun. It will be Perry vs. Romney.

  • snowshooze

    I think Romney has little baggage out there… of the personal sort.. but I heard he was hiring illegals at his residence. That ain’t good.
    Then there is the dog…. that is a complete disqualifier right there… anyone that stupid cannot seriously be considered as the leader of the free world. Period.
    What else is there?

  • goformitt

    Romney may have hired a lawn care company that employed an illegal, but Texas has tens of thousands of illegals living and working there every day – which is worse?

    When Perry could have done something about it, he extended in-state tuition instead – essentially rewarding illegals.

    The truth is, many businesses require illegals and politicians know this too well to actually do anything about it. They blather because they know voters want them to do something about it, but the guys who who write the big checks want the illegals.

  • Vegas_Rick

    Make him play fair! Make him play fair!

  • rudyardkipling

    NT

  • runner12

    immature attacks when questioned on his record?

    Yikes, we already have one of those types in the WH now.

  • texas214

    and when I look into someones eyes and see weaknes, no matter how much i want them to succeed, I call it like it is. Perry showed Romney was getting under his skin.

  • APA Guy

    There is no SOL on bad judgment. Romney is accountable for his past actions…and given his desire to attack Perry on immigration, he had this one coming. Frankly, I was waiting for someone to vet Romney in front of the American public. I sure am glad it was Rick Perry.

  • APA Guy

    There is no SOL on bad judgment. Romney is accountable for his past actions…and given his desire to attack Perry on immigration, he had this one coming. Frankly, I was waiting for someone to vet Romney in front of the American public. I sure am glad it was Rick Perry.

  • center77

    the problem Romney has is everything he says is a lie. People have been calling for Perry to attack more, and when he does, those same people say well he was combative. The good thing for Perry is people can check facts, and they will see this

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2007/12/lawn_work_at_ro.html

    And the thousands of other video, plus articles that calls Romney out on everything he says. The man has no chance if Perry keeps this kind of debate up, because on the stump, Perry is above all the rest. People like him, people do not like Romney. That would not bold well for someone who is trying to get votes from people they do not like him. Romney has had everything fall his way because of the establishment, but they cannot get him over the top. This is why Roger Alies from Fox had once called Romney a loser. Plus Perry got a lot of applause line.

  • Vegas_Rick

    agrees with man made AGW theory, supported Cap and Trade, architect of Obamacare, was pro-choice before he wasn’t….Gee what is there?,

  • joayn

    “If Mitt Romney is the nominee, I will not only vote for him, but will carry as many as possible to the polls to do the same 11/6/12.”

    Come on, at least be honest about it.

  • acat

    States. Do. Not. Have. The. Power. To. Deport. People.

    ICE. Stopped. Deporting. Illegals. From. Texas.

    Do. The. {accursed}. Math.

    Mew

  • sethellis

    Certainly Perry will overtake Cain in the polls at this point, but this isn’t a moment that boosts you to the nomination. Perry was basically breaking the rules, and repeatedly interrupted Romney. Palin said that Perry’s attack was petty, and the audience seemed to agree as well. I just don’t see how anyone can view such behavior by Perry as presidential.

  • miconservative

    “Have at it” in your defense of Romney. He is the most typical politician on the stage. “I am running for office for Pete’s sake, I can’t have illegals.” That right there was the first picture of his true character we have gotten and is his typical flip/floppy self. And we only got it because Gov. Perry would not back off. Keep the punches coming and let’s see how tough Romney really is.

  • supergirl2911

    ha ha it’s almost funny. It;s like the talking heads just have to say something to sound authentic and interesting but it is so transparent. I am referring to news reporters. 2 weeks ago it’s “Perry didnt have any energy hes not a good debater.” Then “Perry is contentious.” It’s not just Perry, they do it with all of them, I think.

  • texas214

    The Democrats and media will not play fair, so we better have the toughest possble candidate.

  • miconservative

    That was manicured beautifully by his group of illegal aliens.

  • APA Guy

    She is in the bag for Romney now that Christie has endorsed him. She is some kind of conservative…you know, supporting one RINO after another.

    Come back with this when a true conservative says the same thing instead of a media hag.

  • baracksolyndraobama

    …while uttering “uh” as conveying confidence.

    Gingrich, however, came across as a brilliant, confident, and level-headed leader. He stood out in the crowd.

  • txindependent

    So he needs to distinguish himself from the others. It’s easy for Newt to sit back and be the voice of reason. But that doesn’t help him in the polls.

  • center77

    was the news today that his plan raises taxes on 84% of the people, and that if you make 20,000 a year your taxes will go up by 950%, thats no typo, that is something you can find on Fox. You can find this here

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/18/study-cain-tax-plan-raises-taxes-on-84-percent/

  • joayn

    who hire illegals as their gardners when they’re a governor of a certain state starting with the letter “M” – and get caught twice doing it.

  • Vegas_Rick

    It’s not like she has shown any political judgement.

  • APA Guy

    ..and he can’t win.

    You need to watch the debate again. Perry wasn’t saying “uh” all night, and they ALL say it at some point.

    You’re grasping for straws trying to slam Perry. What’s your real motivation here? Inquiring minds want to know.

  • onemovoter

    Watching the CNN after debate debate and the CNN “Truth meter” where they repeated Romney’s response to Cain’s 999 plan that it would raise taxes on the middle class.

    Shocker… they rated it as completely true. (rolls eyes)

    That will get some play around the bloggoshpere. It will start to hit Cain on his polling.

  • westcoastpatriette

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    Romney threw in with the 99%, by name the other day, and Christie compared then to the Tea Party.

  • Vannek

    6. Newt Gingrich, hands down, won the debate. He was confrontational, but polite. He was good on faith issues.

    I have always respected Newt’s intelligence and policy knowledge. Tonight I came really close to forgiving him his personal indiscretions. A candidate who knows what he’s talking about vs. a naive President. If I have to hold my nose and vote for someone, I’d rather it be Gingrich than Romney.

  • APA Guy

    it must be because she needs more ratings.

    Sheesh…first an “Ann Coulter said…”, now a “Sarah Palin said…”

    What’s next….”Snookie said…”?

  • center77

    in 2007, and that is not old. Perry passed the in-state tuition bill seven years before that, but some how , and Romney has sent people to Perry’s town halls to lie, so do not give me your whiny argument. The only way Romney wins is if the conservative do not support one guy.

  • damianvincent

    GO Perry!!!

    I’m so glad he showed up to this debate, he handed Romney his butt over his hipocracy on immigration. I agree Perry did great tonight, and I’m pumped up about it. Romney flat out lied, I don’t know what you are talking about, then gave a romneyesqe answer in I was running for President I cant have illegals.

  • supergirl2911

    This is not a new revelation, but holding his own comes across as idiotic. Someone says something and he has the same smile. Botox anyone?

  • nepanyrush

    I have been extremely critical of Perry over the past three debates. He was so horrible in those debatesI completely gave up any hope in him and I thought it would be embarrasing to have him on the stage with Obama. I no longer feel that way. I thought that he resurrected himself.

    And, Romney, to whom my support had gone, looked bad to me tonight. Since the debates have started, and I have watched each one (some on the computer), Romney has been terrific. I was very confident in him taking on Obama. But he showed a somewhat arrogant/curt side tonight that is not endearing in his exchange with Perry. Perry, quite frankly, was masterful in bringing out this side of Romney. I am not sure that Obama’s camp will not exploit this to bring out the same side that I saw tonight. People want to elect someone that is not only smart but likeable and Romney took some steps back in this tonight.

  • baracksolyndraobama

    estudie’ el idioma y la cultura chilena.

    Oye juevo’n, escu’chame bien, Gov. Perry is toast.

  • APA Guy

    Methinks we have ourselves resurrected Romneybot…

  • goformitt

    the same laws Alabama has adopted. He could have gone after businesses that employed illegals. He not only did nothing that made an impact, he instead actually rewarded illegals with in-state tuition.

    That sends a message.

    Perry, like all politicians, are happy to do the “little tiny bit” that allows them to crow about their tough stands on this issue, but in fact they are just duping us while they pander to the big check writers – who HAVE to have the illegals to keep their businesses viable.

    If Perry was at all serious about immigration he would have done something in Texas when he ha the chance. But he has seen the demographic writing on the wall and is scared to take a principled stand on this issue.

  • Right_Again

    It doesn’t serve us well to have Perry look as though he would like to punch Romney. It serves the media and it helps Obama. This is no way for Perry to distinguish himself.

    Verbally attacking Romney is ok. Disagreeing with him is ok. Displaying a face that says he would like to punch Romney is not ok. Unfortunately, that will be the story from this debate.

  • sethellis

    Earlier in the debate Perry said Romney “lacks credability”. Romney was called a liar on multiple occasions.

    Romney was playing on home turf. Believe it or not Romney does have a few enthusiastic supporters. There are many over here in the west have supported him ever since he fixed the Olympics. Utah practically begged him to stay, and was very disappointed when he insisted on going back to run for governor of Massachusetts.. So it did not surprise me to see a crowd friendly to Romney.

    Of course as long as the crowd doesn’t end up in another DNC ad I’m not so sure their applause really matters all that much anyways.

  • AceInTX

    and then he just overwhelmed her…The dumb Texan thin is a put on. It causes people to underestimate him and they don’t see him coming till he’s run them trough.

    If this goes like his other campaigns, this is about to be one hell of a ride!

  • damianvincent

    Here are the articles in question notice the year long gap between the two reports. This is just what he was caught by reporters doing.
    Illegal immigrants toiled for governor

    December 1, 2006

    Outside his aqua-colored concrete house here, Rene Alvarez Rosales paused under an almond tree to answer questions about a subject with which he has surprising familiarity: Governor Mitt Romney’s Belmont lawn.

    http://www.boston.com/news/…
    More immigrant woes for Romney GOP candidate fires landscaper after Globe shows continued use of illegal workers

    December 5, 2007

    Standing on stage at a Republican debate on the Gulf Coast of Florida last week, Mitt Romney repeatedly lashed out at rival Rudy Giuliani for providing sanctuary to illegal immigrants in New York City.

    Yet, the next morning, on Thursday, at least two illegal immigrants stepped out of a hulking maroon pickup truck in the driveway of Romney’s Belmont house, then proceeded to spend several hours raking leaves, clearing debris from Romney’s tennis court, and loading the refuse onto the truck.

    In fact, their work was part of a regular pattern. Even after a Globe story in December 2006 highlighted Romney’s use of a landscaping company that employs illegal immigrants to tend to his grounds, Romney continued to employ Community Lawn Service With a Heart – until yesterday. The company continued to employ illegal immigrants.

    http://www.boston.com/news/…

  • texas214

    in this debate, as he has with the others. He has the best message, if only conservatives can forgive him for his personal failures. I generally agree that his past personal life issues matters shgouldn’t matter As a Christian, I struggle with the concept of forgiveness vs. judging a persons character from their past actions.

    Help.

  • evilleramsfan

    has a fetish for Christie…. Mittens cant break 30% and wont….

  • westcoastpatriette

    Trying to make a point?

  • damianvincent

    I agree even Santorum had romney reeling.

  • Vegas_Rick

    not the governor. The voters in his state supported the tuition decision as did the legislature 181-4. We have a man in the White House now who doesn’t care what his constituents think. That’s how we got Porkulous and Obamacare crammed dowqn our throats.

    I prefer a guy who listens.

  • gherkin

    It seems obvious that the state sales tax is a factor in the current structure as well as the proposed 9-9-9 structure. The federal sales tax is a replacement for -federal- taxes. I was frankly somewhat nonplussed by the other candidates willful ignorance on this point. Newt’s criticism was fair (more complex than it sounds), but the others need to retake economics 101… or something. (Disclaimer – I’m a Cain supporter).

    I don’t think Cain looked nearly as bad as you seem to want to believe.

    And as others have said, I was a bit surprised by the loud applause for Romney. Certainly disproportionate to his polling. Maybe Nevada is a stealth Romney stronghold?

  • center77

    how many times did Romney say wait a minute, and respond to something Perry said in the other debates. Perry just did what everyone else did to take shots at him. Plus,Romney even admitted tonight, when he said I know I am not supposed to ask people questions, so tell me how is what Perry did any different. This matters because he is showing that he will not be pushed around anymore. What people wanted from Perry was fire in his belly, and he showed tonight that he will not just sit and let people lie about his record or plans. I suggest others do the same. Romney lies every time he is confronted

  • damianvincent

    yes it would

  • westcoastpatriette

    ….

  • sunshinek67

    I thought his red face and eye popping neck veins transcends very un-Presidential for him while responding to a well deserved hit from Rick Perry or from the Rick Santorum exchange on Romneycare-Obamacare. His very personal intentional attacks on Perry’s “rough last two debates” was extraordinarily weak. Fact is, he has hammered Perry on instate tuition for kids on a path to citizenship but could not handle Perry throwing it down that the real “magnet” for illegals crossing the border is to provide gainful employment which Romney did when he hired undocumented Guatemalans to manicure his rich expansive lawn. Even after the Boston Herald came to his door step with inquiry, Romney still had the same company with the same illegals a year later.

    Romney came across on my television screen as an angry and rude candidate running for the highest office in the land. Beyond rational thinking to believe that Romney will gin up the conservative base on Election Day. As Rush points out, he is not one of us~

  • gherkin

    In the sense that he steps in as the class monitor to steer the debate onto the proper course.

    Although I like Newt, I’m not so sure about his unimpeachable conservative credentials. The global warming ad still makes me queasy.

    I wish he was as able to put his policies into -action- as well as he gives voice to them. At this point I’d certainly rank him above Romney.

  • sethellis

    I think you have a lot of great points, but I disagree with you that the other candidates are afraid of Newt. The fact is he follows the 11th commandment and doesn’t get involved in these spats.

    However, Romney was not afraid to go after Newt on the issue of healthcare. In fact Romney was very effective in getting Newt to trip over himself on Newt’s past support of the individual mandate. It seems that even Gingrich can be bested by Romney’s debate skills.

  • onemovoter

    nt

  • Xasteius

    This GOP nomination is drawing lots of blood (most of it bad).

  • gherkin

    Did Romney’s anti-Perry site rile him?

  • aesthete

    Tastes great, less filling!

  • conservativecurmudgeon

    …the Newt/Obama debates. They’ll be $10,000 per seat, and $500 pay-per-view. Newt would absolutely, completely eviscerate Barack Obama. The only rejoinder the President will have is “You-you-you-you-you-you-you-you-you-you are against middle Americans!”

    Now, if I could only convince myself that Newt will govern as a conservative, then it would be game over, put away the bats, rake the field, and go home.

  • AceInTX

    especially when he said Rick?s just frustrated about a couple of bad debate performances.

    Puts me in the mind of Huntsman’s petty and snarky wise cracks

  • joayn

    Cheap shots from the cheap seat.

  • runner12

    Here it goes again:

    Newt
    Perry
    Cain/Romney
    Paul
    Bachman
    Santorum

  • Vegas_Rick

    Mormons here in Vegas. The crowd support shouldn’t surprise.

  • http://nerds4cain.com Brookhaven

    It was the most bizzare thing I’ve ever seen. I’ve heard people argue the 9% retail sales tax might turn into a VAT (I don’t buy the argument, but it’s at least an arguable point), but I’ve never heard anyone argue that the 9% corporate income tax was a VAT.

    If she thinks Cain’s 9% corporate income tax is a VAT, what does she call the current 35% corporate income tax?

    They’re both income taxes. Some how she’s OK with a 35% business income tax, but she has a problem with a 9% business income tax?

    And no, she wasn’t talking about the sales tax, because she kept talking about a tax that would raise prices at every step of production. That would be the income tax, as the sales tax is only applied once–at the cash register when the final consumer purchase is made.

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    n/t

  • baracksolyndraobama

    Perry’s wide-eyed attacks seemed awfully desparate. A true gem: his ” your at the, uh, uh, uh top of the list” attack on Romney for hiring a contractor. Way over the top and…desperate.

    Guess you would not only have employers use E-Verify (a reasonable proposition), but would require the same of those who hire contractors to do work at their home. I don’t yearn for your red tape world.

  • westbrook348

    because i’m a Ron Paul/Gary Johnson sort of guy. Both Romney and Perry suck imho. But in the exchange between the two, I thought Romney won. I can’t stand it when candidates interrupt. If someone lies, call him on it during the rebuttal; don’t talk over him for the full 30 seconds. Both looked petty but Perry came off terrible (not as badly as Santorum), especially when Romney zinged him about having a string of bad debate performances.

  • baracksolyndraobama

    Put simply, and in English: Gov. Rick Perry is toast.

  • AceInTX

    1

  • snowshooze

    I just think Romney is stickey… uungh.
    I think he cannot tell the truth.. even at gunpoint, and he twists everything to his advantage in the cheapest way.
    It isn’t that I don’t like him.
    And hate is a stong word.
    I hate his stinking guts.
    But, still, better than Obama, but certainly, were he elected in the next term, it would be a gift to the Democrats. TKO.
    And really, that would be stupid at every level.

  • ThePoliticalHat

    Whenever he said that, I kept on thinking of this:

  • westbrook348

    Perry supported the measure and signed it. So it doesn’t matter that it originated in the legislature. He could’ve made them override a veto and let THEM call HIM “heartless.” Instead he gladly signed it. One of the reasons I wish Governor Veto were allowed at these debates.

  • gherkin

    …and did he actually turn red when Perry launched into his attack, or was it just the lighting?

  • Aaron Gardner

    Cain’s 9 percent business tax is also a problem. It is similar to a value-added tax (VAT) because it would disallow a business deduction for wages, which would make the base much broader than the corporate income tax base. And like a VAT, Cain’s business tax would apparently be imposed on all businesses, not just those currently paying the corporate income tax.

    The result would be that American businesses would be collecting a large tax on workers’ wages ? but workers wouldn’t see this major government grab. One caveat is that the Cain business tax would allow a deduction for dividends paid, which would narrow the base compared to the standard VAT

    See here.

  • AceInTX

    x

  • GregInFla

    if you don’t get the tax credits you used to get for buying that Volt so you end up paying some tax now. That’s okay with me.

  • bs61

    But somebody better address the issue of half the country having no skin in the game, before it becomes more than half!

  • AceInTX

    with that much green, he is anything but out

  • baracksolyndraobama

    Newt’s personal failures pale in comparison to Mitt’s Romneycare. With our economic situation, I’m not sure the public will focus on his personal failings at all.

    Who knows, the electorate could embrace a brainy conservative who offers clear solutions this time around. Sure beats “fundamentally transforming America.”

  • westcoastpatriette

    What do you base that on?

  • westcoastpatriette

    Let’s really rag on Romney…LOL

  • explodinghead

    1. Newt was for a form of amnesty earlier this year on the campaign trial in Iowa:

    http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/05/19/newt-gingrich-endorses-a-form-of-amnesty-that-would-work-like-the-draft/

    Perry got hammered by the base on what they perceived to be immigration weakness on in-state tuition, how do you think they will respond to his support of amnesty in his May 2011 presidential campaign speech?
    Not to mention global warming and Nancy Pelosi. He has political baggage as well as personal baggage.

  • GregInFla

    if you take cash payment for work while on unemployment compensation and spend that cash money. I’m okay with that.

    Your taxes rise when you spend your drug dealing cash on that new Porsche. I’m okay with that.

    As far as SS payments go, increase them 10% to account for the sales tax.

  • Carol Tarasewicz

    I haven’t been online that much lately. Where is the Romney anti-Perry website?
    Thank you.

  • joemc133

    being “record” for the future. I trust his judgement. I’d rather my candidate fumble in language about his good decisions, than articulate bad ones (Romney). Tonight, Perry did well, and has a good record to back up all his low and high blows. Romney and Cain reeled like pinatas tonight. Turn about is always fair play like it or not.

  • GregInFla

    when your Earned Income Tax Credit goes away. So instead of getting $X back you get $(X-200) back from Uncle Sam.

  • florida772

    could muster was a 5 year old attack? come on

  • runner12

    several of the candidates were parroting what Perry has been saying regarding border security. These are the same people who bashed him for being “weak” on protecting the border.

    Secondly, did anyone note Mitten’s gaffes when he was attacking Perry on the influx of illegal immigrants into TX? He first compared TX to two other border states, specifically CA and NM (with more focus on the former). If Mitt had brushed up on his geography he would know that CA shares the smallest border with Mexico, while TX shares the largest. In the words of Cain, “it is like comparing apples to oranges.”

    He then went on to pursue his attack, substituting FL for NM the second time around. The only problem is that FL does not share a border with Mexico. Oops! Looks like Mitt needs a refresher course on geography 101.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2011/10/18/garden-gate-attack-of/

    We will look back at his display tonight as the end of any chance to win the nomination. He lost it and its on film and the public did not like that attack on the hiring of a landscaping company.

  • explodinghead

    It was the first time I had seen Romney actually look out of sorts and red in the face. When Santorum started in on Romney and then everyone else pitched in on Romneycare he started to get really defensive and I think he even stuttered at one point. It was so uncharacteristic for Romney, the facade cracked.

  • center77

    that has a huge Mormon population. So they will cheer when he says anything. The fact is, when the ads start hitting mitt with every statement is has flipped on, and he will be done. People will see Perrys plan, and they will understand he is the best man for the job. Just because Romney can lie very well, does not make him somebody that would be a good president.

  • uncmike

    I concur in your analysis of tonight’s debate.

    I’m was not at all surprised that Newt looked good–he’s always been quick witted in events like this. Were it not for so many unfortunate skeletons in his closet and other muffs (the commercial in which he appears with the left wing idealogue, Pelosi), he’d be doing much better with the base. But time has passed him by, and I say that as someone who grealy admired Gingrich in the past, and still do in many ways.

    Romney, like Icarus, can’t stand the heat, and he finally felt it tonight. His record really does not hold up well when it undergoes serious scrutiny. I can’t see him really getting much more than 25% in the polls, and these polls are basically registered voters, not likely voters who will represent the base more accurately. Romney has seen his high water mark. His new anti-Perry website is worthy of a Democrat, ummm.

    Herman Cain is a good man and would doubtless be 1000% better than the hack partisan know-nothing who currently parades as president. But, Cain has peaked, and his 999 economic plan is really taking on water now. Not only that, he seems unable to articulate answers to the growing number of concerns with that plan. I’m hearing that the guy who helped design it is now suggesting Herman needs to drop the sales tax aspect. To be honest, his whole economic plan is a non-starter with too many smart people who vote.

    Since so many establishment Republican have already admitted tongiht that Perry and the other candidates landed blows on Romney, but still assert that he is bloodied but unbowed, this really suggests they believe Romney was hurt tonight. His avid supporters need to face the fact that he is running an uphill battle for the nomination with conservative Republicans and Independents because of his past liberal/progressive record. That will wear more and more on Romney in the days ahead as analysists finally start looking seriously at him and his record.

    I agree with the view that Santorum seems too angry for his own good. I would be angry too if I had his record of sucking up to the Republican establishment, especially by supporting Arlen Specter–a traitor to the conservative cause if ever there was one. He’s probably OK, but he has blown his chances for the nomination and should simply get out of the race.

    I used to like Bachmann, but she too has scared off potential supporters with her quirky performances in these debates. Michelle, go back to the House where you can be a voice for real conservatism.

    The rest of the field, other than Perry, are in it because of their own egos, and because they think any R who emerges as the winner will beat the teleprompter in chief. They need to accept reality and bow out of the race. I know the Paul supporters are diehards, so expect them to throw away their votes until Ron finally tells them to stand down. It will be interesting to see who they back at that point, though it will be hard to tell since the effect will be within the statistical noise in the polls.

    After tonight’s CNN debate masquerade, I am even more inclined to believe that Perry will prevail as the consensus ABR (Anybody But Romney) candiate. As I have explained elsewhere on RS, this is not a race, it’s a triathlon, and Perry’s strong events are yet to come. Should I be wrong, and Romney is the nominee, then I belive Obama will have met his dream candiate for 2012.

  • capitalistpig

    then they wouldve hated Christie even more.Perrys team did say they were not playing by the rules anymore,I agree.He’s been too nice and restrained in these debates.Reminds me of how he took Kay Bailey Hutchinson to the woodshed awhile back.I think,no,im confident Perry would take Obama to the woodshed as well.Obamas been crapping on Perry and Texas for along time already and I would love to see Perry deliver a Texas sized buttwhoopin on Barry.
    Who cares if the Liberal crowd booed him,they were obviously Romneybots.About time the real Rick Perry was let loose tonight.
    Romneys “I cant have illegals” comeback was pathetic.

  • AceInTX

    besides…it’s not five years old if Romney rehired the same crew again is it?

    In the words of your hero…”Nice Try”

  • goformitt

    By “promoted” I didn’t mean that he had to actually write the legislation.

    Yes, the illegal’s in-state tuition was supported by the legislature – most of them are beholding to big business too. And I don’t doubt that the majority of the Texas public supported it too – since there are tens of thousands of illegals plus their relatives living in Texas – thanks to Bush and Perry.

    The illegals, their relatives and the big business interests that promote the influx of illegals into Texas should not become the national model. Apparently Rick Perry thinks it should.

  • Aaron Gardner

    that doesn’t really change anything.

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    Told me a lot about what Romney’s motivations are.

  • redmymind

    Mitty broke apart like the MIR space station at the first signs of hostility. He clearly shouldn’t be the one lecturing others on being “presidential.” He clearly shows he can’t take a hit. What are we doing wasting time on this extremely thin-skinned loser whose idea of “physical hardship” is suffering a mere papercut?

    We’ve already got a slick, one-term loser in the White House who could out-debate Mitty in a New York second and also flash the same “Hah-vahd” law degree. Been there; done that, folks! . . . And where are we today? . . . Seriously, do we not learn from past mistakes???. . . BAD mistakes?

    And to ask Anderson Cooper 180 for help when Perry was throwing those heavy haymakers at him??? Wasn’t his obvious crowd of clapping drones enough to rescue him???

  • http://nerds4cain.com Brookhaven

    “It is similar to a value-added tax (VAT) because it would disallow a business deduction for wages, which would make the base much broader than the corporate income tax base.”

    Similar to is not the same as.

    We don’t allow all expenses to be deducted now. So if you’re going to follow that rule, then you’d have to say the current system is “similar to…”

    And I would not have had a problem if she had explained it exactly as you did in your first paragraph. I happen to think wages should be deductable also.

    But to simply call it a VAT without any further explination is simply dishonest. It’s lying by omission.

  • devereaux

    Buffoon on immigration. The company Romney hired to cut his grass had some illegals working for them. But when asked about anchor babies Perry refused to answer. Bottom line. Perry is bad on immigration.

  • baracksolyndraobama

    Not sure the $ helps much. He has sunk to single digits in my home state, FL, while raising said funds.

    Despite my verbal smacks at him, I love his record as governor. I lived in Texas a while, too, and voted for him. He has simply created too many doubts in voters minds (and even attacked voters for being heartless).

    Truly, though, he had me questioning his viability in the early days of the launch. Look back at the footage of him pitiching his suit jacket to his wife while talking to the crowd about her doing his laundry. Seriously? Suburban voters in swing states going to flock to that?

    Toast.

    Dream ticket: Newt/Marco

  • florida772

    that it wasn’t his fault so to quote your guy “have at it”

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    Don’t you think?

  • Aaron Gardner

    Take it or leave it. Doesn’t really matter to me because 999 will never be implemented.

  • ripusa32110

    It is good news that, in my opinion, Ron Paul won the debate.

  • westcoastpatriette

    Sometimes what’s good for the goose…Perry has been putting up with being mischaracterized as well as judged harshly regarding problems with illegals in the state of Texas and many saw his attack on Romney as a legitimate way to vent his anger toward people that don’t have a clue how difficult it is to deal with the problem in border states. Romney is a hypocrite on so many issues and Perry was within his bounds to call him on this.

    Perry’s right about states’ being abandoned by the feds on this issue and his anger toward people who don’t understand is legitimate.

  • explodinghead

    If Perry is so weak on immigration how come La Raza is organizing Democrat hispanics to register as Republicans in the GOP primary to vote against him as the nominee? Answer: because he is tough on immigration enforcement:

    http://www.ktrh.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=121300&article=9261275

    “You will know who they fear by who they fight the hardest to defeat.”

  • center77

    can fight back, and do it well. He called the lies out for what they were, and if anybody thinks Cain is anything more than a Failed politician then they are letting their love for his rhetorical smoke screens. I loved watching Perry beat these guys over the head with their own actions for once.

  • center77

    very telling. How come people are not picking up on that line. Romney basically told the country he got rid of illegals working for him because it would hurt his chances to win a race.

  • ripusa32110

    I guesss Romney wouldn’t mind the illegals taking jobs from Americans if he wasn’t running for president.

  • redmymind

    The dude obviously can’t take the heat when it’s directed at him. In sparring terms, he can’t take a punch without going all hysterical as though it weren’t supposed to happen. Perry has discovered Mitty’s psychological weakness (one of many, that is). I hope Perry goes at him even harder at the next debate–without the fake drone crowd and lib moderator to bail him out each time!

  • center77

    people have you tube, and the people who vote will see ad after ad of Romney lying about the issue. That is what is going to happen. All conservative wanted to see is Perry fight.

  • runner12

    state with the largest border with Mexico to the one with the smallest, Mittens did. Mittens also seemed to not be aware that FL is not a border state.

    Oh, and Perry did answer the question. It was on the 14th amendment and his answer was no.

    Nice try, though.

  • redmymind

    This is the Perry we know!!! . . . Tell his handlers to back the hell off! Let the man loose!!!

  • lucasblack

    Phil Gramm and Steve Forbes had $ too – didn’t do them a damn bit of good. I agree that Perry is toast.

  • center77

    have anything to do with it. Reality is not subjective, and Romney lied. Period. Romney got a whooping tonight, even if he sounded smart doing it, substance does matter.

  • GregInFla

    That would be worth the price of admission.

  • center77

    Romney looked very bad tonight. He got called on each one of his lies. He knows the establishment media will cover for him, and he knows he has to just give them a sound bite to do it, but substance matters, and Romney will only win if conservatives decided not to get behind one candidate, and Perry is in the best position to take it to Romney.

  • ripusa32110

    Newt has some ideas that haven’t been talked about lately due to his low poll numbers. It might be helpful to look into Alvin and Heidi Toffler’s ideas and how Newt Gingrich buys into their ideas.

  • explodinghead

    Perry is Governor of a border state. I don’t know which state you live in, but Governors of border states (specifically the southern border with Mexico) have a lot of hard decisions to make.
    Last I heard Massachusetts didn’t have the influx of illegals on a daily basis that Texas is forced to educate (federal requirement), or the drug lords shooting at our Texaas rangers and border agents, (unless those pesky Canucks are flooding across the border to use our healthcare facilities again). So until Romney has had to deal with similar issues he has no ground to stand on, especially hiring illegals to workin his garden for goodness sakes.
    Perry is absolutely not for amnesty and his border enforcement has even gotten La Raza mad at him. Lots of US citizens are flooding into Texas from all over the US for the jobs.

  • center77

    because now he has a plan, and in doing so he exposed that the establishment media will say anything negative against him. If he is calm, then he has no fire, if he fights back, then he look out of control and desperate. Conservative will get behind Perry soon after they see his tax plan, and understand he is everything they have been waiting for. The man sticks to his guns, he told the crowed America wants someone who is not going to pander to the various groups, they want real.

  • baracksolyndraobama

    …in my home state of FL. If Perry were viable, he would be leading this fellow Sun Belt state.

    Despite our sometimes wishy-washiness with the huge retiree population, we did elect Rubio. Given Obama’s economic mess, Perry should be in the lead. I think the idea has hardened in the primary electorate that Perry is all swagger and very little substance. May be unfair, but he only himself to blame. Likely due to his gaffe-prone, stammering debate performances.

    Or, am I being heartless?

    Source: http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/content/fla-poll-romney-28-cain-24-gingrich-10-perry-9

  • center77

    is hardly who I would want to write tax policy. That bank has taken so much money from me. Cain will not even say who advices him most the time, and his knowledge of the world is insulting. How can he just make fun of some country because he gets a question.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    change.

  • gekster

    You go ahead and let the polls tell you who to vote for.
    They are ‘allways’ right.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    know the legal status of sub-contractors? That is unacceptable to me.

  • Change Jar Conservative

    Sigh… actually, I think it was KJL over at the corner said that all undeclared including Daniels did well.

    But back to reality, Newt. Time to be flavor of the month.

  • tyman

    in Texas. Illegals are a huge drain on the state.

    The Federal gov’t won’t deport them, and yet the Fed requires the STATES to pay wellfare and other benefits to them.

    The Federal government also requires that they be given a K-12 education. Isn’t that money wasted if they can’t go to college?

    Judging by the small amount who take advantage of the in-state tuition, compared to the HUGE amount of illegals in Texas, it’s hardly a magnet.

    I certainly don’t support illegal immigration, but there are a lot of illegals who could teach American ne’er-do-wells any day of the week about hard work, etc. And, I don’t feel any better about my taxes going toward undeserving lazy Americans than I do about illegals.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Doesn’t justify the attack and certainly doesn’t negate his loss of cool in the exchange. That angry look was over the top, imho….and yes, I will be voting for the GOP nominee over The Messiah that has wrecked the country even if our nominee is the dogsh*t I stepped in when I took the dogs out last night…

    But now, we choose the one to beat Obama, and cain and even Mitt look better than Perry to me now and I doubt I can erase that Perry temper moment unless it comes down to Perry v Paul!

  • politicalgal1

    Starting to see a chink in Mitt’s armor. He was obviously flustered tonight. Can’t figure out why the other candidates don’t tie him to the environmental and health care consultants he used in Massachusetts who are now advising Romney. By the way, did his NV operation buy all the tickets for tonight? He received applause even for poor answers.

    Perry needs to replace his Mitt opposition research staff. The immigrant worker story fanned out in the 2008 election. However, Mitt should have been called on his claim that he authorized state police to detain illegals. Romney signed this order in 2006 (in his last month in office as he was eyeing a presidential run) that deputized 30 specially trained State Police troopers to detain illegal immigrants. This never was executed and was reversed by Governor Deval Patrick in his first week in office in 2007. He was obviously flustered at times tonight.

    Cain’s 9-9-9 plan is not good for small businesses or retirees living on fixed incomes who have to put gas in their cars and buy food and clothing. People are taking his advice and doing their own calculations. Many of them will find out they will be paying MORE in taxes. I did one on a family business today. It literally gets the shaft from 9-9-9.

    It is a golf shaft business – small operation. The shaft is manufactured in Asia and then sold to companies in the United States. Currently a small business owner can deduct cost of goods sold, labor, marketing, costs of providing employee health insurance, business insurance, and state income taxes (California business – state taxes very high). Under current IRS tax tables, federal income tax $60,281. Under Cain’s plan, 9% tax on gross income $90,000. Cain does allow deductions for purchases from U.S. located businesses. Since the company’s largest expense is cost of purchases from Asia, this business would not get to deduct the largest cost of goods sold item.

    Assumptions: $1,000,000 gross income
    Cost of Goods Sold and current IRS business deductions : $750,000
    Filing Status: LLC (Schedule C filed on individual return)
    Current Taxable Income: $250,000 (gross income less business expenses)
    Tax Rate: 33% (married filing jointly)
    Tax: $60,281 (tax of $82,500 less $22,219 according to IRS tax table)

    Looking forward to seeing Perry’s flat tax plan.

  • center77

    memorable line when he stated “I supported the concept of TARP… but I was then against it.” For it before he was against it? Come one people, Romney and Cain, how can anybody pick them over Perry after watching Obama for three years Record matter.

  • goformitt

    The easiest way to get after illegal immigration is to go after employers who hire them. Perry did not support e-Verify in Texas. Nuff said.

    Perry may pretend, but big business runs his show.

  • center77

    think lying is a endearing trait, what does that say about you.

  • politicalgal1

    Meant to say Romney advisors now advising Obama!

  • GregInFla

    Cain’s challenge of being Main Street vs. Romney’s Wall Street (which is fair) brought Romney to say that saving the Olympics was a Main Street task. Not quite, Mitt. That said it all to me. And as for 999, Art Laffer on Cavuto today said it best: “It’s just a plan. You need a big change, not tinkering, to reform the tax structure.”

  • center77

    that shows that Romney lied once again about the job record in Texas. He does not get called on this, but reality is not subjective bud.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/279607/cis-and-texas-immigrant-job-myth-chuck-devore

  • center77

    and Fox is a Romney shill all the way through, but not even they can get people to like him. Its funny, the most powerful voice in news cannot get their guy to be liked. Whats that say about Romney. LOL

  • wonkish1

    According to Newt’s own daughter that went to the hospital with Newt to see her mom who was dealing with a very minor surgery for a very small amount of malignant cancer, apparently the topic was never brought up.

    The divorce was brought up months prior and not at the hospital. Of course multiple divorces and having an affair are personal failings, but some of the stuff that has been said about Newt personally is wrong according to many in the family.

  • center77

    liar a few times. he said Romney needed to stop lying to the American people. Romney always gets the win according to the media, but he never gets credit with the voters. We are on to the media trick. Not again.

  • Danielle Davis (ocleverone)

    and he did. He flustered the heir apparent and made him expose the chinks in his armor.

    Look, we have been begging our side to fight and then we get aggravated and throw up our hands when they do the “gentlemanly” approach.

    Perry showed tonight that he would fight. A couple of times, he took Romney to the mat. Since the base is not cracked up about Romney, I think Perry showed them that he would fight.

    I think his bringing up the illegal wasn’t a cheap shot. Too often Congress has a not for me, only for thee attitude and it placed Romney square in that camp. Romney’s answer about “hey I am running for office” didn’t help.

  • center77

    to like Perry, because he is true to who he is. People do not want Romney to win, they know he is not conservative, they know he lies, and they know he is a liberal. Romney is a garbage man, he is just cleaning up the trash from his past. People know substance matters.

  • izoneguy
  • rickperryreport

    Mitt Romney came across as an arrogant snob, ready to pounce on anyone who didn’t follow the rules. Could you imagine playing golf with that guy?

    Joe @ The Rick Perry Report

  • center77

    cannot stand he cleaned your candidates clock tonight, even if the lame stream media will not give him credit. Mr. 47th in the nation will only win if the media can still keep the conservative vote split. Romney lies about Perry being the chairman to Ale Gores campaign.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/279607/cis-and-texas-immigrant-job-myth-chuck-devore

    Romney has a Mormon problem, and Bain Capital problem, and a PROBLEM

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    prevent him from checking the status of the parents of those illegals that pay in-state tuition but require that Mitt Romney check out the employees of landscapers and dry cleaners or be called hypocrite? What about bowling alley employees? Can Perry pass this hypocrisy test?

    I didn’t see Mitt get flustered at all. I saw Perry lose it on camera. The pics are bad. Have you seen them?

    I lean to Cain.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    display of temper and accusations of crime without proof. Perry lost me tonight. Cain is the adult conservative.

  • powertothepeople

    is a little bit deceptive gamecock. The workers in question were hired directly by Mitt’s son and Mitt himself from a personal friend of the family who himself was a legal immigrant.

    They claim they only hired the crew after asking the friend/owner of the company if he was still using illegals. They asked because he had been in trouble months prior for using illegals. They claim they received assurances from their friend that he was no longer hiring illegals in the company. Then they fired the crew once it became public that the crew was made up of illegals.

    That being said,

    I have a problem with their explanation for a few reasons. One, being a very public figure and with his aspirations for the presidency, one would think that friend or not, if someone has just been busted for the use of illegals, he would avoid using the company as if they were the plague.

    Second, again, being that they were busted recently, a prudent person would require proof of their legal status. Even if you want to claim he believed his friend, belief and trust only go so far especially with who Mitt is. At least he should have demanded proof the weekly crew at his house were legal.

    And third, I question the whole “we asked him and received assurances” claim given that records show the friend was using many of the same employees he had prior to receiving the summons for using illegal workers. Mitt was not new to using this company, he had used them in the past. One could explain away his use of the company prior to the summons, but not after.

    Mitt used illegals and he at least should have been aware that the more likely scenario was that his friend was still using illegals. with the position in life he is in, it was his job to know who he was paying especially considering the fact he was fully aware of past business behaviors and the summons.

  • damianvincent

    Romney had to be told twice about the illegals. One time okay that can be a mistake, but twice, come on now, it was the same company no less. Perry deals with immigration every day. He’s pumped half a billion on that border, sent the Guard and Texas Rangers down there. Perry joined Az in it’s immigration suit, and he vetoed a bill giving drivers licenses to illegals. Perry even pushed, with emergency legislation no less, to ban sanctuary cities.

  • tyman

    and forced Romney to come out and say “I’m running for office, I can’t have illegals work in my yard”.

    Romney definitely had it coming the way he’s misrepresented Perry on illegal immigration.

    And Romney was spouting the liberal talking points about the jobs in Texas were either low wage or they went to illegals and the Texas unemployment rate blah, blah, blah. Romney really had a bad night to have to resort to all that.

    No wonder Romney has tried to keep the focus off of Perry’s jobs creations record in Texas. It’s real and Romney can’t compete with that. In fact, no one on that stage can.

  • powertothepeople

    that if you were in his position of being berated non stop and having your record distorted, that you would not lose your cool even once?

    Or are you holding him to a higher standard than you would, say yourself?

  • onemovoter

    where companies used it and hired the people who showed legal. However later it was found out by the Feds that several of them were illegals using legal SS#s. The companies still faced fines for hiring the illegals even though they followed the law. Some states that have this requirement are having to put in exceptions for these kinds of problems, however that takes out the bite of e-verify to begin with.

    That is why Perry is correct when he says it doesn’t address the real problem of securing the border and having the Feds actually getting the illegals in the country.

    ^555 for izoneguy

  • bloodshy

    But he still didn’t look good.

    Rather than use substance Perry reverted to name calling: “hypocrite,” “liar”… seriously? Mr. Triple-Pinocchio is going there?

    And at the end of the day, he lost in every single 1v1 vs. Romney.

    That said, he was more fiery and I expect it will give him a very small positive bump.

  • txpat

    And it will come back to hurt him.
    PLEEASE!!!
    Spare me and The Rino Romney spill.
    They are more concerned Romney was bloodied tonight.

  • lucasblack

    I’m in FL too – I won’t let the polls tell me who to vote for, but it certainly won’t be Rick Perry. I am amazed at how badly he has run his campaign (in this state in particular) and I have no confidence in him. Unless Newt drops out before FL, he’s got my vote no matter where he is in the polls.

  • politicalgal1

    It may be unacceptable to me. However, when Mitt is speaking to his gardeners in Spanish, don’t you think he might have a clue?

  • bloodshy

    Rick Perry reminded me of his former mentor Al Gore vs. Bush w/his inability to shut up when it was his opponent’s turn to talk.

    Furthermore, Perry really needs to watch his name calling. Liar? Hypocrite? Whether you feel that way or not (as all non-Perry supporters feel about Perry), you find more diplomatic words and beat your opponent with substance–not name calling. Very tacky approach by Perry.

    I think Perry threw out a little red meat that his crowd will enjoy and I think he’ll get a very small bump from this debate. But he looked like a classless buffoon for much of the debate.

  • Danielle Davis (ocleverone)

    I have not seen the pictures. Most politicians have snapshots that are, shall we say, less than flattering? I don’t put much stock in those.

    Please see powertothepeople’s response to you regarding Mittens & the illegals. If Mitt owns a bowling alley or a dry cleaners, then the answer is yes, it would be his responsibility to check out those employees.

    As far as passing the hypocrisy test, Mitt failed tonight.

  • tyman

    I’ve researched E-verify and I’ve found the same things over and over.

    E-verify isn’t used until AFTER the employee is hired. If they’re found to be illegal what do you do? Fire them? No, you can’t until their appeals process is exhausted. Then what? They go get another job, and the process repeats itself ad infinitum because they won’t get deported.

    E-verify is also not very effective against ID theft.

    The biggest reason that I’ve heard Perry is against e-verify is that it was proposed as a Federal mandate, and we all know that is something we need more of.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    that. Perry went beyond the pale.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    nt

  • Menlo

    However, I suggest Gingrich supporters take a look at the history, content, evolution, and effects of HIPAA.

    I find his record on policy and statements with regard to health care and health insurance, from as far back as 15 years ago, seriously troubling.

  • eldstenorge

    I am not the biggest Romney fan, but have pretty well decided, especially after tonight, that I will support him. Rick Perry was so rude and so arrogant that I could not see myself voting for him, even if he, by some miracle, wins the nomination. Maybe Rev. Jeffress can say a few prayers for him and give him a few blessings, it might help because that was not even as bad as Perry was tonight. Too bad, Mr. Perry, I do have a heart and I am just so tired of the viciousness in politics. I will just leave the Presidential spot blank if he is nominated, but we do need to elect some good conservatives to the other offices, so I will show up and vote for those races. We need a GOP House and a GOP Senate.

  • rec0n

    about ‘cheap shots’ when she’s been taking them from the cheap seats at Perry for quite some time. She’s in the bag for Cain, imho.

    Her cronyism accusation against Perry were made when he ran against KBH and pretending she ‘always THOUGHT’ there was something to them but the light had just ever-so-conveniently dawned when Bachmann and Cain rolled in is true transparency.

    Palin’s a mouthpiece. She has about as much value to the rest of us as Dick Morris.

  • shadowtax

    I like him. I find that Erick Erickson believes him to be a jerk and citing him as bullet point Number 2 intriguing. How is super nice guy Tim Pawlenty doing in the race? I also remember myself dismissing Barrack Obama based upon his temperament in 2008.

    The rest of the criticism in point 2 is not new. Every candidate on that stage is flawed. I don’t consider losing a Senate election in 2006 or endorsing Arlen Specter particularly fatal when a candidate has his own record.

    I don’t expect Santorum to win, but he may yet win my vote. I need more than old news and a dismissive attitude to be dissuaded.

  • redmymind

    We’ve already got one in the White House, lest anyone forget! Falling for Mitty will be like being dumb and then taking a stupid pill on top of that!

  • AndrewHyman

    The thing that bugs me the most about these debates is when Michelle Bachmann does her ritual shout that Obama is a one-term president. It’s an applause line, and it may motivate some people, but when I hear it it sounds like a JINX. Talk is cheap, and making Obama a one-termer is something that you DO, not something you SAY. It’s a waste of time to hear this kind of wishful proclamation, and it can only serve as a JINX on the whole Republican field.

  • redmymind

    Boy, as the candidate goes, so goes his drones–mindless as ever. And they say Ron Paul supporters are weird???

  • redmymind

    I too am getting a little tired of the bravado and rhetoric. As much as I’d like to see BHO go, I wouldn’t underestimate him. BHO is no slacker when it comes to self-preservation.

  • http://www.redstate.com/thesophist TheSophist

    I know many of you thought Romney, Bachmann, and others somehow took down Cain’s 999 Plan with the whole “you’ll raise taxes on the middle class” thing.

    I have to tell you, I was really disheartened by it all. Bachmann is a tax attorney by training. Mitt Romney ran Bain Capital. These are smart people, who are extremely savvy about finance and tax policy. For them to demagogue, pretending like they didn’t know the truth about the 999 Plan was disappointing. The pandering was simply unreal. Is this really a Republican field?

    There are numerous valid criticisms of the 999 — many have been explored here on Redstate — such as the impact on lower income taxpayers, or the “slippery slope” argument. But at the very least, don’t pretend not to understand the damn plan when you do oh so very well.

    Yeah, you could call it politics as usual. But I was hoping for more than politics as usual.

    To be fair, Perry didn’t launch any ignorant attacks that I could tell, and promised to “bump plans” with Cain. I look forward to seeing it this Friday (Perry said he’d release it on Friday).

    But Romney completely lost me tonight. Yes, I’ll vote for the man if he’s the nominee, but not with pleasure or with any real hope for substantive change. To pretend like he didn’t know the difference between replacing the Federal tax system and state sales tax… the hypocrisy is staggering. I know he’s been running for President since junior high, but good golly Mr. Romney… Pretend a little more, why don’t you?

    No, at this point, there is nothing you can do or say to get me into that brand new BMW today.

  • Flagstaff

    one far right” crowd? Let’s not.

    They should both set the record straight, not twist the record of somebody else. They were both wrong.

    I call for a President who is fluent in the English language, one who can persuade, one who can win a debate without misrepresenting either his own record or his opponents’. Voters get this stuff, and even if they don’t they can recognize petty behavior.

  • LibertyWins

    They know one of their own. Rick Perry is second to known in that camp.

    Good Luck to you and Herman “Apples & Oranges” Cain.

    I’m firmly locked in the Perry camp. I had my doubts but, I never gave up on Perry. This is the man I want debating Obama next year.

  • LibertyWins

    They know one of their own. Rick Perry is second to none in that camp.

    Good Luck to you and Herman ?Apples & Oranges? Cain.

    I?m firmly locked in the Perry camp. I had my doubts but, I never gave up on Perry. This is the man I want debating Obama next year.

  • LibertyWins

    Typo!

  • LibertyWins

    Perry-Gingrich

    or

    Perry-Ryan??

  • mahlalie

    Romney is so terrible, I’d go third party before I vote for him, but Perry was just abysmal in my mind. I can live with people going briefly over time, but not allowing a candidate to respond is just downright rude. And his line to Anderson Cooper about answering questions however he wants was just plain disrespectful to the whole debate process in my opinion.

    Outside of Ron Paul, Cain is the only candidate I would consider at this stage. I really wanted to like Bachmann and Perry, but they get worse for me every debate. I’m even wavering on Cain at this point.

    Oh, and I totally agree Santorum is worse. I was pleading to my video stream for them to turn Santorum’s mic off during last week’s debate.

  • mahlalie

    It’s not just Romney and Perry out there.

  • center77

    Romney has done the same thing to Perry for a month now, Perry has decided to fight back. Whats funny about Romney supporters is they only see the exchange, but do not even think of the substance. What Romney says is nothing but a lie, and Perry should hold Romney’s feet to the fire, because if Romney does win, Obama will. Romney has a long record of changing positions, and that makes him a weak candidate, even if he is as practiced as they come. Obama was the same way, and look what we got. We cannot afford to be blamed for an Obama like president after we just took a hit with a Bush like president.

  • rechts

    McCain was probably the most pro open immigration candidate ever to run. It was he, with Ted Kennedy, who pushed so hard for amnesty. Yet, he still lost the Hispanic vote by 2/3rds.

    Immigration enforcement and securing the border are extremely popular issues among all American by any poll conducted in the past decade.

  • avagreen

    I tire of people and governors that have no experience with living in a border state and their holier-than-thou sneers and punches on this issue, along with their totally ignorant “solutions”.

    *thumbs up*

  • avagreen

    **

  • avagreen

    Ugh!
    Great disappointment for their choosing to turn into yet another MSM type.

    Roger Ailes has done them and conservatives wrong by telling FOX to become “more moderate”. It shows. Wonder how long it will take them to notice the downturn in their ratings?

  • rechts

    The case with Romney’s landscaping contractor having illegals with falsified documents is exactly why E-Verify is needed.

  • natch

    is unable to change his stripes. He is nothing more than a junkyard dog – unleashed.

  • avagreen

    I’m glad that Cain’s plan is getting the critical review it needs.

    Sorry, Cain. Catchy phrases don’t make good plan.
    I’ve noticed his nervous movements recently….rubbing his hands almost raw, and his mouth drawn into a pressed lip straight line.

    I think he knows he’s running on vapors (financially and point-wise).

    Just don’t like the way he’s been so cagey about the details of his “economic advisors”…….too “political” for someone supposedly “not a politician”.
    And, his refusal to support Perry, but will support Romney is just petty (“political”).

    His performance tonight put the exclamation point behind my “Not supporting Cain!”

  • avagreen

    ala Newt’s dress down at the end.

  • avagreen

    appealing to Cooper for help.

    Why does he think he needs to be propped up with this fake crowd and then this?

    What a sissy.

  • APA Guy

    I guess the other 99% of observers were just wrong..YOU are right…yep…

  • avagreen

    The same folks that Texas aren’t allowed to deport, and that Texas got sued over trying to cut out of welfare handouts (to discourage their coming for that particular “magnet”), and that the Feds won’t help stop at the border, and that ICE won’t deport, with a border that shares 1200 miles with Mexico.

    THEY ARE COMING FOR THE JOBS BY 100%!!!!
    Not the in-state tuition which accounts for 1% of total college students.

    Sometimes in the life, the only choice is between “shyty” and “more shyty”.
    Perry is choosing the less shyty choice of trying to make the best of a situation created by the Feds.

    What bright ideas do you have for handling 1.2 million in your state that YOU aren’t allowed to deport, the Feds sue you when you try to cut their state handouts, and the ICE refused to deport when they are caught?

    Tell…….. I’m listening.

  • avagreen

    Brewer?s AZ law wouldn?t work in Texas we are too big.
    But he also defended her when the other border-state governors wanted to shut her shut of the border-state conference. And in fact, he said he wouldn?t attend, and without Texas a border-state conference doesn?t fly.

    Get some facts before posting.

  • avagreen

    We must have been watching a different debate.
    He gave a one-word answer.

  • avagreen

    Where have they gone?

  • bzip

    In my opinion the winner was Rick Perry. Perry restarted his campaign last night; he did very well in debating and in the end Perry comes back to life showing us this is really a Perry Romney race as it was before and as it will always be.

    I think as many had stated that Newt did really well as always. Newt could be the partial recipient of Cain?s bad performance and Perry could also regain some of Cain?s lost support.

    I think Romney did okay but in general lost.

    I think Cain did really badly. His 999 plan was torn apart he look more irrelevant, his GITMO hostage answer is sure to toast him. Cain has reached his peak and is going to go down from here.

    Rick Santorum I think landed some good punches but he isn?t going anywhere.
    Bachmann isn?t going anywhere.

    My overall take
    Winner:
    Perry, Newt

    Losers:
    Cain, Romney

    This race goes back to a Romney and Perry fight.

  • SoFiMil

    Then Perry won the gold. He didn’t win the debate, but this was his best debate performance of the campaign. If he had performed as well as he did last night, he’d still be well on front in the polls. And he turns in future debate performances compared to last night, I’m confident he’ll regain his previous poll numbers.

    Rope a dope. Pow! Bam! Zow!

    The conservative in the race is alive and well.

  • avgjo

    Don’t believe me?

    Look who make his eyes shine: Rudy Giuliani, Chris Christie…

    I also think the man would rather donate a kidney without anesthesia than say one word of criticism of the GOP. He comes across as a partisan hack, pure and simple.

    (And by half-donkey, i mean a substitute for a profane word; i don’t want to imply that he is half-democrat. He is half-conservative, half-mainstream Republican, IMO.)

  • avgjo

    Don’t believe me?

    Look who make his eyes shine: Rudy Giuliani, Chris Christie…

    I also think the man would rather donate a kidney without anesthesia than say one word of criticism of the GOP. He comes across as a partisan hack, pure and simple.

    (And by half-donkey, i mean a substitute for a profane word; i don’t want to imply that he is half-democrat. He is half-conservative, half-mainstream Republican, IMO.)

  • jedison

    consistently has been good in these debates and despite his “baggage” I think his “stock” is rising –at least in my eyes. I still have my eye on Herman Cain, but he needs to expand his repertoire beyond 999.

    I was glad to finally see Gov Romney take some flak. He has been coasting at these debates and hasn’t been made to sweat very often. Gov Perry was a bit like a prize fighter last night. He got some good hits and also swung and missed a few times. But he was at least in the ring.

    I don’t think he is “toast” yet, but he needs to really start contrasting his policy vision with Romney’s if he wants to score some big points.

    But as I said in my reply post to Erick’s “Nostalgia and Decline” post, I didn’t see any “Happy Warriors” last night. The media coverage is going to focus on the bitchiness on display last night, and as long as the GOP keeps agreeing to debates “moderated” by MSNBC and CNN, this is what we are going to get.

  • sowa1

    If Obama was in a debate with Neut, Neut would wipe the floor with him. Republicans should not have any debates on CNN, CNBC.ABC.CBS (all in Obama’s pocket). This fighting and bickering is just what they want. Go after Obama and his horrible policies and make him a one time President. He is traveling around the Country (on our dime) deliberately lieing to the American People.

  • davesinsanantonio

    is not a plus!
    Neither is waffling.
    What is needed is to explain how you came to understand it was wrong and what you intend to do in the future.
    Otherwise, it looks like you will keep making the same dumb mistakes over and over again. Read that as an attack on Mittens defending Romneycare while trying to say Obamacare is bad. Can’t have it both ways!!!

  • jlsankot

    Perry continued to bring up his energy plan. There’s no doubt he could debate Obama on this as I think he feels very passionate about getting our country energy independent.

    He will need to brush up on a lot of other areas, i.e. giving a solid argument for giving the OK to illegals to obtain in-state tuition. But I do agree that his handlers are holding him back. No one, unless you’re a professional actor, does well when they wonder if they are pleasing their coaches. (I’m not sure this is the way I want to phrase this last sentence, but my mind isn’t working very well this AM. I think you can get the gist of what I’m trying to state.)

  • dvdmsr

    says some good things and they both speak well, but based on their past words and deeds in government I don’t know that I can trust either. I don’t have that problem with Perry. On Newt’s conservative credentials – I think I saw somewhere that as President he would push for vouchers. Vouchers are a very conservative idea, but I got the impression that he was going to use the federal government to to bring them about (please correct me if I’m wrong) Using the federal government to provide for vouchers is not conservative – what happened to diminshing the role of the federal government in education? This is a small issue, but may suggest that Newt could be more of an imperial president/anti-state righst guy than this Conservative can stomach.

  • The_Gadfly

    Come on Erick, the problem with that statement is its tense. Romney has had trouble breaking 30% except maybe in NH. If he were truly the great oak of a Presidential candidate he claims to be, his numbers would be in the 50-60% range with everybody else fighting to break/stay just over the cusp of double digits.

  • jlsankot

    is another Slick Willy, in my opinion. Just can’t trust the guy.

  • avagreen

    Tastes great, and is much better than Migas.
    :)

  • davesinsanantonio

    will listen to his conservative message.
    The independents will only remember his personal baggage, and will not buy what looks like his daughter trying to cover it up years later.
    In addition, the love fest on the couch with Queen Nancy over global warming will stick in everyone’s mind.
    Newt says many of the right things well, but for too many voters he doesn’t pass the smell test. If he were the only person running he might win, but he isn’t, and he won’t.

  • avagreen

    No text.

  • Craigpennsylvania

    Some Red Staters have rederred to the 9 percent corporate tax as a VAT. Of course, when one is running for president, one should know better.

    We need a debate with Perry, Romney, Gingrich and Cain.

  • AceInTX

    What I said was, “he’s had 5 years to prepare a response and he wet his pants”

    The point is, he was finally pushed after months of coasting along watching everyone else fight and it rattled him….

    And again I’ll state the reason why it’s not a 5 year old issue…he rehired the same bunch of illegals to redo his lawn after the spotlight was off him…

    so it IS an issue whether you want it to be or not

  • circlegranch

    Sour grapes doesn’t cut it now. But, she’s doing what is most profitable for her, getting paid by Fox. Both she and Huck decided on a steady paycheck over service to country. It would be nice though if they could leave their personal bias at home and stop sucker punching a candidate they both hate and wave that “Fair and Balanced” banner instead. I bet Palin has never read the SCOTUS ruling in Plyler v Doe and we know she’s never been the governor of a border state. Rick Perry has battled for 10 years; she quit when the going got tough. Go ahead and listen to her if you think she’s really got something to say that’s relevant these days, but she can’t quit on big job, decide not to run for another and still be credible.

  • powertothepeople

    will more remember his couch session, his leaving a woman as she was dealing with cancer in order to run off to his mistress who he then also left in her time of sickness to run off to his current wife, and his new found “middle ground” views on GW and such then you give us credit for.

  • AceInTX

    he looks like toast early on and then he sneaks up and crushes the opposition….I don’t know if it’s been skill or blind luck but I’ve learned to never count him out….and $17 Million buys a lot of oppo research and an ability to get a message out that will turn things around.

  • Craigpennsylvania

    Texas214 – We both saw the same thing last night. When Romney explained that it was a lawn service who had the illegals, t was clear that it was a non issue.

    Perry started great. He never should have gone down the road to Romney’s lawn care service.

    He should have stayed on message that the in state tuition (about which he was attacked last night) was NOT a “magnet for illegals”.

    It WAS an act passed by (Appx) 180 out of 183 members of the legislature to allow children who were brought here by their parents a chance to pay a fair price to go to University. These children had to graduate with grades good enough to enter a university and still pay a lot of money to go to school. AND they needed to provide proof that a path to citizenship was occuring.

    A point could also be made that the USA does not hold children accountable for the actions of their parents.

    Ok … the parents illegally brought these children across the border.

    Let’s look at this in another manner: If Mom and/or Dad of a 12 year old rob a bank, and sent to prison, the parents are felons. Do we tell the children they are less worthy?

  • SoFiMil

    Are we conservatives or the lesser of the evils of two mushy political parties?

  • nepanyrush

    If Mom and/or Dad of a 12 year old rob a bank, it is true that we do not tell the children they are less worthy, but we also do not tell them they can keep the money that was stolen. In other words, If Mom or Dad enter the country illegally, we do not tell the children that they (and the parents actually) get to reap the benefit of tax-payer funded educational support. Heck, if the parents rob a lottery ticket from someone in the country illegal, we do not let the children keep the winnings. One does not get to benefit from the illegal actions of one’s parents.

    I agree that the illegals working on Romney’s lawn was a non-issue. The problem is that Romney revealed an unpleasant character in the exchange with Perry that I had not before seen. Obama’s team will see this as a weakness they can exploit, because, quite frankly, and (coming from someone who like’s Romney), people want to vote for someone not just competent but also likeable.

    Romney did not come off very likeable in that exchange. Previous to this debate, he had used humor to make himself likeable, but this time he came off as a curt, scolding, I-am-above-you lecturer. If I, who likes Romney, and whose wife and two college-aged daughters are enamored with Romney, saw this, then I am sure many people had the same impression.

  • ag8tor

    or is anyone else tiring of the Romney-Perry spats at the expense of letting others have some airtime? I wanted to hear more from Newt and I’m glad he stayed above most of the infighting. I would like for ALL the candidates to answer the question taht was asked instead of roaming off into a completely different topic. I think it is time for Santorum to back out. He is far too angry and argumentative even for a so-called debate. Bachman seems to be playing the role of Romneys deflector. She also needs to bow out.
    I thought Newt won with Perry coming in second.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    for their legal status each time he hires companies? 0%.

    He is the bigger hypocrite and how dare he suggest that he should be the next President because a company Mitt hired had done so.

    You don’t accuse someone in this way of this kind of matter. Its low and I hold these pols to the same standards as I would any human being and myself. I would not accuse someone of violating the law in this way in any event, but especially not without proof and would actually leave it to law enforcement and not force a public trial on such a matter.

    The premise is venal. That Mitt would have to check the legal status of any company he does business with? Not falling for the cheap shot from a desperate candidate with a bad temper that can speaks worse that Dubya ever did.

    Perry is no tough guy. He’s pathetic.

  • powertothepeople

    the same thing, yet you fail to address the real issue, the company owned by his friend had just been busted for using illegals, he was aware of the bust, chose to use them anyway, chose to use them based on a “promise” he says he got from his friend that he was not breaking the law anymore, and considering his position in life and his ambitions, did not make the prudent choice to use a company recently busted for using illegals and made no effort despite the so called promise to make sure the ones he was paying were legal.

    You are wearing this on your shirt sleeve, you are trying to justify a bad decision on Mitt’s part, you are playing lose with facts, and acting as if Mitt’s poor decision and even worse excuses should not be fair game.

    No one would have a right to complain had the situation been different and the ones Mitt were using were illegal prior to the bust. Had that been the scenario, you would be right. But since that is not what happened and Mitt at best showed a serious lack of judgement, it is a valid thing to be raised and you are wrong to act otherwise.

  • Craigpennsylvania

    Ok – So you think it is not the best analogy. Great. You have just stated that allowing someone the opportunity to pay in state tuition is comparable to allowing someone to keep stolen money.

    There are no winnings here. Getting in state tuition at almost any school is a simple thing to do. Some schools are even advertising this. Telling someone he/she has to pay $40,000 is not “giving” that person anything. The University of Texas has 48,000 students. If each student there paid the $10,000 in state tuition, the school would bring in $480 MILLION per year in tuition alone.

    Taking this concept to the “nth” degree. Let’s say all 48,000 students at UT were the children of illegal aliens. The university would collect $480 MILLION per year in tuition from these students. That is not exactly a government give away. In fact, unless UT is a model of inefficency, that should be more than enough funds.

    In addition to this, the Texas Legislature approved this bill by about a 180 votes for to 3 votes against. It isn’t as if Perry rammed something down their throats.

    My daughter applied to UT. It took about 10 minutes of a phone conversation to have it made clear how easy it would be to get in state tuition for her.

    In regards to Romney, Perry and the rest of the field, I have no personal favorite with any of them. Your family and my family are quite in disagreement with what we saw last night.

    Gingrich was, in our opinion, the best on stage. Romney was, in our opinion, the second best. Perry started great, and had some great moments. That being said, his approach to Romney’s “illegal alien hiring” was very similar to Bachman’s hits on Perry about the vaccine.

    Let’s hope Perry does not do what Bachman did, and that is to continue on a non issue.

    In respect to RomneyCare and Perrycare (the in state tuition), in both states the measures had overwhelming approval from the respective legislatures and populace. In the case of Romneycare, 8 items that Romney vetoed were overturned by the legislature.

    One of those items was in regards to the mandate. The Federal government forces states to pay for people going to emergency rooms by mandating that no one can be turned away who shows up at the hospital.

    Romney wanted the mandate to be one in which the person either had to purchase health insurance OR opt out of paying for health insurance but accepting responsibility for paying for one’s own health care cost out of pocket. The opt out was put back in by the legislature by a veto proof margin.

    This was the same idea that Gingrich had in the 90′s – making people either buy insurance or requiring that people pay for expenses out of pocket. Both ideas had imbedded a subsidized insurance plan for those who could not afford it.

    When people try to equate this to Obamacare, which did not allow for an opt out, it is disingenuous.

    Both Romney and Gingrich were supporting the idea the we all must pay for our own health care.

    ObamaCare is, by definition, the first step towards single payer.

  • Craigpennsylvania

    Ok – So you think it is not the best analogy. Great. You have just stated that allowing someone the opportunity to pay in state tuition is comparable to allowing someone to keep stolen money.

    There are no winnings here. Getting in state tuition at almost any school is a simple thing to do. Some schools are even advertising this. Telling someone he/she has to pay $40,000 is not “giving” that person anything. The University of Texas has 48,000 students. If each student there paid the $10,000 in state tuition, the school would bring in $480 MILLION per year in tuition alone.

    Taking this concept to the “nth” degree. Let’s say all 48,000 students at UT were the children of illegal aliens. The university would collect $480 MILLION per year in tuition from these students. That is not exactly a government give away. In fact, unless UT is a model of inefficency, that should be more than enough funds.

    In addition to this, the Texas Legislature approved this bill by about a 180 votes for to 3 votes against. It isn’t as if Perry rammed something down their throats.

    My daughter applied to UT. It took about 10 minutes of a phone conversation to have it made clear how easy it would be to get in state tuition for her.

    In regards to Romney, Perry and the rest of the field, I have no personal favorite with any of them. Your family and my family are quite in disagreement with what we saw last night.

    Gingrich was, in our opinion, the best on stage. Romney was, in our opinion, the second best. Perry started great, and had some great moments. That being said, his approach to Romney’s “illegal alien hiring” was very similar to Bachman’s hits on Perry about the vaccine.

    Let’s hope Perry does not do what Bachman did, and that is to continue on a non issue.

    In respect to RomneyCare and Perrycare (the in state tuition), in both states the measures had overwhelming approval from the respective legislatures and populace. In the case of Romneycare, 8 items that Romney vetoed were overturned by the legislature.

    One of those items was in regards to the mandate. The Federal government forces states to pay for people going to emergency rooms by mandating that no one can be turned away who shows up at the hospital.

    Romney wanted the mandate to be one in which the person either had to purchase health insurance OR opt out of paying for health insurance but accepting responsibility for paying for one’s own health care cost out of pocket. The opt out was put back in by the legislature by a veto proof margin.

    This was the same idea that Gingrich had in the 90′s – making people either buy insurance or requiring that people pay for expenses out of pocket. Both ideas had imbedded a subsidized insurance plan for those who could not afford it.

    When people try to equate this to Obamacare, which did not allow for an opt out, it is disingenuous.

    Both Romney and Gingrich were supporting the idea the we all must pay for our own health care.

    ObamaCare is, by definition, the first step towards single payer.

  • nycmiddleman

    Perry was flailing. Literally flailing.

    The guy looks confused, and the most un-Presidential of any of the people up there.

    He is now, officially, and finally done.

  • florida772

    you haven’t checked your facts

  • eldstenorge

    I would have loved Sarah Palin to run. And there were three candidates who bore false witness last night. As I remember, that is still one of the ten commandments, and for someone who believes he can pick and choose who is allowed to be a Christian, he needs to remember them. They are still the Ten Commandments, not the Ten Suggestions.

    I have not said much, Romney has not, until now, been my favorite, and I may change, but some interesting points to contemplate.

    1. Why did the prolife organizations in Massachusetts endorse Romney the last time he ran if he is so bad on abortion?

    2. Why did Richard DeLand of the Southern Baptist Conference endorse Romney if he were so bad?

    3. Why, in October 2006, when the evangelicals were holding what they called “Justice Sunday” events throughout the nation, to try to get voters to elect those who stood for original intent of the Constitution by those appointing judges, invite, Oh, Lordy, of all people, Mitt and Ann Romney to speak at their event? Seems like they liked Mitt when they needed him and could use him, but, Mormons, other than that, get to the back of the bus.

    4. If was Mitt Romney who, with a Democrat legislature, was able to get them, twice out of the three times required by Mass. law, to approve placing the citizens initiative on the ballot overturning the court decision in Mass. outlawing gay marriage. The third time was when Gov. Deval Patrick was Governor and Nancy Pelosi and other rabid Democrats went to Mass. to make sure the legislature did not pass it the third time, thus the law stands. Mitt stood up here, even in liberal Massachusetts.

    There is a lot more which can be said. And, the hiring of an illegal to mow his lawn. Come on now, be reasonable. He hired a registered company in Mass. When he found this one hired illegals, he did not just fire the illegal worker, but fired the company. That says a lot.

    The more nastiness and hatred spewed at Romney and Bachmann make me turn from the other candidates to those who look Presidential. And, Romney won the debate last night. I have read the analysts today, and it is clear he won and looked the most Presidential. Perry looked mean and hateful. Rick Santorum, who I support for a long time, and always have liked, despite this column’s attacks on him for losing his last election as Senator in Pennsylvania. If this column had been truthful as well, they could have told us about his book, “It Takes a Family,” which everyone should read and how the liberal women were so upset as they took it to mean that he thought, of all things, women should put their children first, before a career. It was a take on Hillary’s nastiness in her “It takes a village,” crap. That is where we have gotten all this state interference in the rights of parents and so many broken homes because parents do such terrible things as teach their children that homosexuality is against God’s laws, and home school their children. We should get over all this viciousness toward each other and tell what is good about what we believe. That was Reagan’s way and we always set him up as an example. What we saw last night were those who like to reference Reagan and his accomplishments, but do not want to follow his example.

  • wbedding

    we need someone in this group of candidates to express passion for where this nation is headed. good on perry. if perry had shouted slurs or attacked romney with personal slander, then yes. that would have been over the top. glad to see perry stepping up his game. he still has a long way to go to win over voters, but it was a step in the right direction.

  • angryguy77

    Lets vote for the nice guy who believes in nothing and lies over the guy who believes in something and fights for it. Whats wrong with you mIttheads? The man is not a conservative, let me repeat, HES NOT A CONSERVATIVE.

    This clown will set conservatism back decades. Bush gave it a bad name and Mitt will do the same.

    if our choice in candidate hinge on how they do on stage over what they believe in, our nations best days or truly behind us.

  • mahlalie

    although it was that, too. I said disrespectful to the debate process. What good is a debate if you’re not going to answer the questions you’ve been asked and, instead, just say whatever you want? Also, disrespecting Cooper in this scenario is disrespecting authority. It’s childish and not a characteristic I want in my president. We have enough of that already.

    Incidentally, I don’t have a problem with Anderson Cooper last night. I thought he did well enough, about as good as any other moderator.

  • http://nerds4cain.com Brookhaven

    The current 15.3% payroll tax is a direct tax on labor, and it gets eliminated un 999.

    If Cain’s 9% tax is a problem, how is a 15.3% tax OK?

    Cain eliminates:

    35% corporate tax
    15.3% payroll tax

    and replaces them with a 9% corporate tax. Even if you grant that Cain’s 9% tax is a tax on labor, it’s still less than the current 15.3% labor tax.

    How is 9% worse than 15.3%? And if Cain’s 9% is a VAT, what is the 15.3% tax?

  • http://nerds4cain.com Brookhaven

    For the first time Romney really came under attack, and imho he paniced.

    Whe people start with the “are you going to let me finish?” statements, you know they’re in trouble. I’ve never seen anyone in a debate that resorted to it that ended up winning the debate.

  • kaheo

    because he tried to turn 180 degrees on his earlier stances on immigration when he started running for President. He even stated he would vote against his own bill that he co-authored with Ted Kennedy! I bet the Hispanics were for him until that point but he had to pander to the base! How will Perry get Hispanic vote if he’s against the DREAM Act yet he feels sorry for the same kids who would benefit from it??? Sound hypocritical and confusing? Hispanics will decide who wins in 2012 – stick to anti-immigration stances, and lose the election or pander to Hispanics, and win the election. It’s that simple!

  • Spartan4Life

    Fast, Furious, Solyndra, Soros, Union, SEIU, Dodd, Frank, Stimulus, Holder, Bankrupt, Reverend, Wright, Far Left, Socialism, Broke, Greece, IMF, Bernanke, Geitner, etc.

    These guys should stop taking shots at each other and start talking about some new ideas. If we had a composite candidate that could have the good from all these guys and lose the bad we might actually have something.

  • http://nerds4cain.com Brookhaven

    For the first time, he was animated and had a solid, clear statement on what he would do about illegal immigration.

    Then he went after Romney on illegal immigration. The company Romney hired to maintain his yard hired illegal immigrants–not Romney, but the company he hired? So, if I hire a company to put a new roof on my house, I’m supposed to review the employment records of every one of their employees to make sure they are legal?

    I thought it was a dumb attack the first time, but then he did it a second time.

    There’s so much to go afer Romney for, that there isn’t need to go after him on something like this (that only let’s Romney play the victim of an unfair attack).

  • kaheo

    and I think I know why – It could slow down businesses in Texas from hiring the right folks for the job!!! Just goes to show you how anti-illegal immigration he is!

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Eh?

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    A written law with no real moral underpinning because we have had a de facto open border rule of law for 20+ years and we all wink about hiring illegals, ie human beings willing to work, like we once winked about bootleggers.

    And for Perry to break the code in a personal way is ugly and uncouth.

  • izoneguy
  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    just my opnion

  • izoneguy

    And they do not.
    As a matter of fact when a state does step up to enforce the border they get sued by Obama.

  • izoneguy

    As Romney has done. That is what is pathetic.

  • izoneguy

    Mitt is just his sparring partner.

    That glass jaw of Mitt’s won’t last until January.

    Just my opinion.

  • danandsis

    Newt Gringrich won the debate hands down. He is the most informed, intelligent of all the competitors and his brief answers have substance on any subject. His answers don’t have the same old standard replies in the brief time he’s allowed and a breath of fresh air compared to the Romney-Perry same old in your face spit battles.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    lose my cool in a bad way, and if I did, I should be held accountable and possibly not be the nominee. I can tell you that I am not qualified to be President! There, I admitted it.

  • izoneguy
  • horizonscanner

    Perry reminded me of Gore in his manner. Maybe he is a “Conservative.” But why is he unable to conceive of a Great Wall of Texas? Why should he care how “long” it will take to build this wall? Why? I look at this man and think, “He opines in received sound bytes. He is not a generator of Conservative thought, as was Reagan or Goldwater or Mike Pence.

    When Republicans stage Night at the Opera pie fight, the American public is poorly lead and loses clear direction.

    Republican debates ought to be staged like debates in the House of Lords. No ad hominem attacks. Proper citation for all points of concern. No gang rapes. If our leaders behave like children in a sandbox, where do we go for mature leadership?

    Very disappointing.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    seriously, you are right

    We are all duplicitous on illegal immigration…which is why I moved to the “far left” a few weeks ago. see here

    http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2011/10/03/gop-can-affirm-rule-of-law-and-define-amnesty-down/

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    being hired by Mitt!

    That was poor campaign strategists.

  • acat

    Willie Horton comes to mind.

    I do have to disagree on one point. If I recall correctly, you’re a native son over the age of 35. You’re qualified to be president. You’re not qualified to be a candidate.

    This is a rather key distinction, to my mind.

    Mew

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    workers?

    I think not.

    Don’t we count on the police to make sure that the laws against hiring illegals are enforced, whether a company violated that law in the past or not?

    I think so.

    There, was that enough variety for you? smile

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    on file in my diary.

    No candidate owns DeVine….ie Cain better watch out!

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    imho

    or Romney/Cain?

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2011/10/03/gop-can-affirm-rule-of-law-and-define-amnesty-down/

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    4 years and 4 months after the Second Coming! smile

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    just wait

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204346104576637310315367804.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    seriously so

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    perpetrate fraud. Amen. Otherwise it would continue the non-everify situation that encourages hiring based on race to reduce the chance of hiring illegals.

  • all6mom

    What a good choice comes down too, is a really solid gut reaction to the candidates. I am one who voted for Clinton but felt some how uncomfortable with my choice. I was right on that one. I voted for George Bush and it was a feeling that it would be a catastrophy not too, Considering 9/11/2001, I was very right. Saw a key note speaker at Dem convention in 2004. Thought “where did the Democrats get this moron from”. Democratic debates, like 10 candidates on stage. Saw this guy; reaction: “lights on nobody home”, not even democrats would be stupid enough to nominate this guy. Well they were and they did. The only thing that has surprised me about Obama has been his immediate and continued
    decline in confidence by the American people.
    My point do not judge by these debates alone. Think quietly about your reaction to them, your discomfort level with them. Before you vote consider everything that intellectually is important to you. Do not decide based on media coverage. Vote your most important issues even if they do not apply well to your favorite candidate.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    and remove the risk from businesses.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I could have missed it.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    smiley face

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    newt gets big govt spasms periodically and w/o warning

  • acat

    applies to politicians, Gamecock.

    Mew

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Hamlet

  • izoneguy
  • powertothepeople

    not even a close comparison.

    I know you are a hell of a smart guy just because I know you made it through law school so it can not be hard to understand that while you may consider the whole issue a mute point, it is a legitimate issue based on the situation.

    Like I stated above, had the whole issue arisen prior to the company getting busted just months earlier, you would have an argument and a good one. But since Mitt knew they had been busted, had used them prior to the incident then separated himself from the company after the bust, then CHOSE to accept a cheap guarantee that the illegal behavior had stopped, he had the responsibility to ensure said company was not doing the same thing again. In fact, considering his position in life and his ambitions, the prudent person would have stayed as far away from that company as one could.

    Now to answer your police question, lets not play coy. Most people know who are not even in the political world that the fed/police are useless against illegal immigration. Mitt would know that better than the average person. He should have walked away from the company after the raid and summons and we would not be having this discussion today.

    You may not like what Perry said, but you should at least be willing to admit that Mitt failed to make prudent decisions when it came to going back to that company. If you are honest enough to admit that, then the comment from Perry was justified.

    Lets put it this way. I hire you as my attorney. Setting aside your ethical requirements to be my advocate, what would you think honestly if I gave you this story about my arrest.

    A company offered me a job driving tractor trailers across the Mexican border into the USA. Weeks prior multiple trucks of theirs had been busted loaded up with cocaine. When they offered my the job, they promised me their drug dealing days were done. I got in, drove the truck to the checkpoint, and am now sitting in jail for transporting cocaine.

    I guarantee the first question you would have is why did you not open the truck and see what was in it especially considering the fact the company was a known mule of drugs.

    Same applies to Mitt. This is a small issue and in the big scheme of things not going to matter much. But for you to act as if Perry was out of line is absurd and to act as if somehow Perry started the mud slinging is even more absurd. Perry was hit with mud from all candidates hours after he announced and at the first debate. They all have dirty hands and we all know it.

  • Robbrou

    Not at all. I never said *I* would not vote for Perry because he comes across as a dolt. I fully understand the difference between substance and style. If Perry is the nominee, I?ll get behind him fully.

    My point is that it is folly to underestimate the power of an uninformed electorate and the media that panders to them (often emphasizing style over substance). It?s what got us an Obama presidency in the first place.
    When the media is bombarding the airwaves with a polished Obama (with the bully pulpit of the presidency) juxtaposed with Perry struggling to get a coherent thought verbalized, it won?t help us to regain the White House. That?s just a fact. It?s a fact you can choose to ignore by instead attacking me if you want but it doesn?t change the landscape of the electorate.

    Pointing out that an uninformed electorate often chooses style over substance doesn?t put me in their ranks. It just makes me honest.

  • all6mom

    My estimate is my fed taxes would double, triple if all my income which would include my social security was included.
    My fed tax on all new things 9% plus what ever state tax was added.
    My monthly expense out of pocket to cover my taxes for the year would triple was well. I have run my math by people who can do these things in their heads and on my calculators (2) of them and i would have less monthly income under the Cain 999 plan.
    He stated that his plan did not factor in state taxes.

  • irishgirl

    And no matter how many times you state “…..in the South won’t appreciate Perry’s ugly….. isn’t going to make that statement come true. Lived in the South all my life.

  • SoFiMil

    I hoped Perry or another candidate would call him on his support for ethanol subsidies for Iowa farmers.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    meow

  • all6mom

    My taxes will double, plus state taxes also. A gallon of gas now has $0.54 in taxes on it here in California. Mostly state taxes but figure that on top of a 9% fed tax. A dominate phrase might be “on all new goods”. Well food products are bought new, a gallon of gas is bought new, medicines are bought new..etc..
    Bachmann’s statement “the devil is in the details” might be more in line than most people are giving her credit for.

  • irishgirl

    so I doubt Perry will have his feelings hurt that you don’t respect him.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    The personal attack even if all true doesn’t make Perry a better choice for President. I don’t blame Mitt for continuing to hire a grass cutter that had a prior problem with an illegal employee. It was a fluke that Mitt’s lawn guy was caught and a fluke that as far as we know Perry hasn’t had a garden or nanny-gate problem.. Plus, I don’t think it is proper to accuse a person of criminality in this way.

    But if you want to reply with 500 more words, have at it. I’m writing today, legal work tomorrow…smile

  • irishgirl

    was reporting on that very situation. Excellent question, Exploradinghead.

  • irishgirl

    n/t

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I am not excusing Mitt. Maybe this helps…

    http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2011/10/03/gop-can-affirm-rule-of-law-and-define-amnesty-down/

  • acat

    Regarding Romney, that we *know of* two instances doesn’t mean there weren’t more.

    Regarding Perry, your assertion fails. If he had a gardener or nanny problem, the Rove team would have used it when they were trying to get KBH for Gov. Further, had there been a problem, Rove would have used it before now. Both Rove and Mitt want the Perry campaign strangled in its’ cradle.

    Mew

  • irishgirl

    well put explodinghead

  • irishgirl

    Don’t kow where you got that info, but when I read it, I nearly fell off my chair. Richard Land has a radio program on AFA, which I listen to every day. Did a quick Google search and saw where he talked about politics and religion in the last week, but no “endorsement”. What he actually said was if Romney ends up being the NOMINEE, he believes that conservatives et al will vote for him versus Obama. FYI, No one associated with AFA has endorsed any of the candidates and doubtful they will.

  • all6mom

    I should have said the only thing that has surprised me about Obama is his instant and beyond rapid decline in confidence by the American people.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    e-verify doesn’t prevent the filing of lawsuits, but few laws do. Lawsuits can be won, even thrown out at an early stage and if one uses e-verify they have huge evidence against intent. The Georgia law here specifically does much of what I desire on employment and charity for illegals so long as one is not harboring, narrowly defined.
    \
    I read your link and much of what it bemoans is that e-verify is “not perfect” because it relies on docs the employee provides. That would be true of any system unless the system is quite totalitarian and so has negatives we would not want. Such is life.

    What e-verify is an improvement upon is not the unattainable perfect system but rather an system that holds employers STRICTLY liable for verification hence making them law enforcement with liability.

  • acat

    Does the Governor have a way to determine whether someone is, in fact, illegal?

    No.

    That’s the exclusive domain of ICE.

    Further, as you well know, there’s case law that illegals who pay taxes (i.e. sales or property as part of rent) are entitled to the benefits that those taxes support. Perry’s in-state tuition holds illegals seeking those benefits to a higher standard than, say, an Oklahoman who seeks to become a Longhorn. (3 year residence rather than 1 year)

    Mew

  • rechts

    That’s crazy. As I said before, immigration enforcement and securing the borders are extremely popular among every demographic — including Hispanics.

    “73% of Republicans are opposed vs. 20% in favor. Independents have even stronger views: 74%-15%. Even Democrats are strongly opposed 58%-32%.

    In fact, a majority of every major subgroup opposes giving illegals in-state tuition rates ? men and women, rich and poor, urban and rural. Hispanics, who have more conflicted views over illegal immigration than is commonly known, are opposed, 54%-28%. Blacks, who often see illegal immigrants as rivals for jobs, are the most opposed, 80%-12%.”

    http://blogs.investors.com/capitalhill/index.php/home/35-politicsinvesting/5357-69-oppose-in-state-tuition-illegal-immigrants-perry-romney-cain

  • powertothepeople

    no more words. I have always enjoyed your point of view and will continue to do so in the future. But on this, you have thrown away reason and reality, facts and proof, and substituted it with nonsense, poor comparisons, and foolishness. You are repeating things that are debunked and trying to make a capitol case out of a misdemeanor at best. You are way off base on this, and while entitled to your opinion, it still does not mean you have not made yourself to look foolish due to your persistent rants void of reason, facts, and reality.

    By the way, you can claim the first bust was a fluke, fine will give you that one. But Mitt being caught with illegals in his employment was far from being a fluke and was at least a very very poor choice on his part and one he will have to face in this election many many times.

    I will say you should approach the Mitt team and offer to be the distraction service for him. You do it better than his own folks do.

  • onemovoter

    This company that was doing lawn care was hired by his son who had a close friendship with the owner of the company. Mitt should have learned from the first time after learning they had illegals working for them. Should have told his son not to do business with them again. But…. the next year they went right back to the same company and had the same problem.. .AGAIN.

    The biggest point of the debate where my jaw dropped was when Perry first brought this up looking at Mitt. Mitt responded by lying.. saying he didn’t know what he was talking about. Of course Mitt knew what he was talking about. But he lied right on the spot.

    That is Mitt’s real problem in this race and his 2008 bid. Conservatives don’t like liars and won’t support liars. That is why Mitt’s support level is still around 20%, and won’t really go up more than that. Us Midwest folks might not like every candidates stance on the issues, but as long as that candidate stands on their positions honestly, without doing the politician hustle, we’ll end up supporting them over the slick willy types. And yes I am calling Mitt a liar, several times last night he did so outright.

  • Aaron Gardner
  • izoneguy

    And that my friend is why employers DON’T want e-verify.

  • wonkish1

    http://www.redstate.com/wonkish1/2011/10/19/a-play-by-play-on-newts-transgressions/

    Enjoy!

  • Flagstaff

    One of your best.

  • runner12

    Romney is a no-go for me in the primaries. Cain is much better, but his foreign policy answers and failure to defend the kinks in his 9-9-9 plan are troublesome for me.

    Unless Perry absolutely implodes or drops out, that is who I am leaning towards right now.

  • runner12

    that employed illegals. The issue was that when he found out about it, he kept them employed. Only when the press got a hold of it did he let them go.

    It became an issue when Romney went after Perry on immigration. If you are going to attack somebody on an issue, you better make sure that there are no skeletons in your own closet relating to said issue.

    To make matters worse, Romney initially played ignorant in the debate and then had to admit it was true when it was clear Perry had something in print to back it up.

  • runner12

    the question was, ” Do you think the 14th amendment should be repealed?”

    Sorry if that was not clear in my original post.

  • Common_Cents

    Rope a dope?

  • carolynr

    Perry did not come across Pissy…Romney did. This arrogant little prig does not need to be in the White House. Why don’t you see his record on the Big Dig. Why don’t you look into his running to the left of Teddy Kennedy. He talks about not being a professional politician…well he sure spent a lot of years on it. He’s a three time loser..lost to Kennedy…lost 2ne GOP bid in MA and lost to McCain. If he gets the nod…I’m not going to the poles. I don’t see any daylight between his policies (when you finally catch him in his lies) and Obamas. Enough people…enough.

    Herman Cain lacks the gravitas to be POTUS. We have a beginner…we don’t need another. We need someone with a JOBS records. Isn’t that what you all wanted. Now…you think you are watching American Idol. I want someone who had the evidence of job creation and if Perry’s state has half of the entire USA … well then…I guess we know what we should do. So…if it is not Perry…it will be Newt…Oh..Erick…I agree…Bachmann had Romney’s back when being attacked. God…she’d sell out her Conservative values just to be VP.

  • Common_Cents

    The back and forth bickering was a total turnoff loser.

  • Common_Cents

    These are the only viable candidates going forward.

    Give them EQUAL time. Gingrich has done well with the least amount of time. I wouldn’t be surprised if its 1/5 the time the others get in all the debates.

  • Common_Cents

    That type of nuance the public will not accept.

  • Common_Cents

    I read some very complimentary words from Palin on Gingrich post debate. A Palin endorsement would be a huge boost for the Newt.

  • carolynr

    Oh…now we should be politically correct. A lie is a lie is a lie. Oh…I know…we will call it a misspeak. The man lies and he deflects. He won’t answer questions. I guess Santorum finally say the point that Perry was asking about the book. How does that affect you…poster…you will still have the Federal Government administering healthcare if left to Romney…that is unless he changed his position one more time and lied. The man will say whatever he has to say to whatever crowd he is playing to. Who does that sound like? Why it’s Obama.

    Asked about backing Obama’s centralized EDUCATIONAL PLAN…you know..the one that backs the unions and the students be da*ned. ….yes that one. Well, Mitty backs centralized education, i.e., Race To The Top. Asked about it in the previous debate by Perry…HE MISSPOKE. I’D RATHER SAY LIE…that way we know what we are getting…more of the SOS that we have with Obama.

    Al Gore was not his mentor. You might want to take some truth serum. Al Gore ran on family values and 2nd Amendment rights. Al Gore has abandoned the former…Perry still holds true to both. What did you think a Southern Democrat was going to run on in 1988…ABORTION!!!

    If the man paying the bills hires Illegals…after making such a big deal and mischaracterizing Perry with his excellent handling of the border (which is not his responsibility)….then yes..he is a hypocrit…but then, I guess he always was one…he just changed his stance on policies to please the crowd. NO PRINCIPLES…JUST MOST OF THE SAME JUNK WE HAVE IN DC.

  • izoneguy

    Just like Arizona & Alabama are….

    Perry is playing to get in the big game.
    He wants to affect all 50 states – not just Texas.
    You watch, he will clamp down on illegals but
    it won’t be in the traditional way people are thinking.

  • acat

    Did Mitt do that?

    Mew

  • Common_Cents

    Several times Newt has won debates, called by many people, but he’s not getting the media attention he deserves. He gets way less time in debates than others do.

    This bias is very curious.

  • wonkish1

    That is the most important endorsement in New Hampshire and without it there was no way McCain could have won in 08.

    The only thing nice the editor has had to say about any of the candidates when asked about the endorsement was directed at Newt.

    The endorsement is still worth about 15-20 pts in New Hampshire after all these years making it one of the most important endorsements in all of the primaries.

  • bzip

    Newt won by staying out of the fray and being upbeat but Perry won too because not only did he restart his campaign but this debate but he also seriously hurt Romney.

    Call Perry what you want but het took on Mitt and showed Mitt for what he is.

  • avagreen

    ………and that’s why Andersen got kinduv pizzy about it when Perry didn’t answer. The whole group had been going off the reservation with answers that didn’t match the question. It was only with Perry that he got miffed.

    Perry well-deservedly told him who was in control of the answers, probs very aware that others before him had done the same and got away with it.

    Andersen was the one that looked/acted juvenile. His little trick didn’t work.

    Good on Perry!

  • bzip

    I am afraid Newt has to much baggage. Though I honestly will go with Newt if Perry some reason bows out.

    I can perhaps excuse some of New’t baggage but Newt leaving his sick wife for another women I just have a very hard time with and I don’t think it will sit too well in a general election.

    Perry and Newt in my opinion are the only two candidates that are even worth considering.

  • carolynr

    Santorum made some good points. He is a good Conservative but someone needs to explain that unless and until we get rid of union contracts, we cannot bring manufacturing back and be competitive. I’d love to, but unions are everywhere.
    Paul – Too far out there on foreign affairs. Agree that we should not be in all these countries. He is an isolationist and unfortunately…the way things are set up…we’re tied to the world.
    Bachmann – She preaches to the choir. Everyone knows that Obama is no good..so why tell us again. I also agree with Erick…she has Romney’s back. When he was getting pummeled from all sides…there was Michele to get him out of it. He (Romney) never did answer the question (AS USUAL).
    Cain – people are beginning to see he needs more foreign affairs experience. He needs to watch how he says things, i.e., electrifying fences. His 999 Plan will not work. Cain and I live in the same state. 1st..how is he going to get rid of “hidden” taxes…micromanage all the businesses in the USA? Second..in GA we have state sales tax, state income tax…and with Herman’s 9% consumption tax…I’m paying upwards of 20% on purchases. I’m busted….as are most seniors.
    Newt was excellent. However…there was a question concerning healthcare and mandates I would like to hear more about.
    Romney – Romney is a prig. A snooty, arrogant person that believes he is better than other people. He is rude and he either lies or deflects and now that he has his secret weapon…Bachmann to pull him out of the fire…I guess we’ll never know how he feels about certain subjects. If he is the candidate…I will not vote for him…THAT IS RIGHT..GOP…I DID IT FOR YOU ONCE…I WILL NOT DO IT AGAIN. Besides, Romney is nothing more than Obama in “sheep’s” clothing and the GOP will pay dearly for his nomination. It will be the end of the GOP. Too big on Tax and Spend…Besides during his tenure as a professional candidate…he lost three times. Oh…and Bain Capital…none of those people with the Wall Street protest will vote for him. He’s all about money…and it is not ours…except if it is in his pocket.
    Perry. OK…Perry did a lot better. Perry has some really good ideas concerning how to get us back into a positive revenue stream…i.e., JOBS. His state does have a AAA rating. His state’s employment is not half Mexican. He does have good paying jobs in his state..heck…he took part of Silcone Valley to Texas…his state is business friendly. Part I of his jobs plan is great. No need for Congress…this can be done immediately. Every item we buy is affected by energy. Gas is too high and with the Middle East in turmoil…we need our energy. Those are high paying jobs and those jobs create other jobs and so on down the line. This is a winner folks…A BIG WINNER. No subsidies…not tax breaks..if you are a good company…you make profits…it is pure capitalism…the government does not subsidize anything. So..even our groceries will go down…they will start feeding the corn to the cows.
    Oh…and notice (with the exception of Bachmann) that all the candidates now prefer Perry’s approach to the border..boots on the ground; avionics (drones) and fences in urban areas. So..yes…I am a Perry fan…after that…Newt

  • wonkish1

    Read my diary on the right.

  • bzip

    It isn’t some much about a silly lawn and illegals as it is about 1) Romney first lying about, 2) Romney using the line, ?I?m running for office, for Pete?s sake. We can?t have illegals!?? which shows just how corrupt and i=dishonest Romney is.

    That is where Perry hit it out of the ball park and showed Romney for who he is.

  • bzip

    I caught that too and was confused why Anderson was upset with Perry and everyone else was doing it. Clearly Perry took control and Anderson sure got peeved :-)

  • tyman

    I think Newt would have gone further had time allowed. Would’ve loved to see Newt take Romney to the woodshed.

    Perry has tried to stay positive, but it’s awfully hard to do this when your opponents are bashing you and misrepresenting your positions.

    I like Newt, but I don’t think he has a chance to win the nom. Aside from Romney bringing up the mandate issue, everyone’s pretty much left Newt alone because they don’t see him as a threat.

    If you could mix Newt with Perry and his organization, you’d have one awesome candidate for sure.

  • carolynr

    Look…this is a federal issue…this has nothing to do with Perry. The Federal position is that if you are born in the USA…you are a US
    citizen. This has nothing to do with Perry’s excellent job on the border…which I might point out is the Fed’s job.

  • Common_Cents

    But Gingrich hasn’t broken top 3 in polls, yet, steady climb so they will ignore him and hope he goes away money wise.

    They all defer to him in every debate. They do not want to tangle with him. Romney did a bit last night on healthcare reform, that was a first.

    The lame stream media are afraid of Gingrich because he will call them out on their BS. they do not want to give him his time.

    I think this last debate will give him a boost and creep up on polls and deserve more media attention.

    He has done the most with very little time given to him in the romney/perry jerry springer argument shows called debates.

    If he were to get Palin’s endorsement, he is our nominee.

  • tyman

    It amazes me that Herbcain said he couldn’t support Perry as the nominee because of “a whole host of reasons”. Particularly immigration.

    They’re all mimicking Perry’s plan for sure. Maybe they’ve realized that he does know what he’s talking about after all. I wanted to alert Herb to the fact that since much of the Texas border is the Rio Grande, an electric fence wouldn’t be such a good idea for obvious reasons.

    Mark Steyn filled in for Rush today and I was sorely disappointed. I think Mark has bought into the rhetoric that Perry is soft on immigration. He asked why it would take 15 years to build the fence. He ignorantly stated that the Chinese built The Great Wall in 14 years.
    Mark, I hate to tell you, but it took CENTURIES to build the wall. Did it work? Nope, because the Mongols figured out that they could get in by bribing the Chinese guards…hmmm, integrity issues even back then.

  • izoneguy

    What naive world does Herman Cain live in?

    As soon as the 20 ft high electrified fence is built the drug cartels will blow it up.
    They are better armed and more ruthless than the US border patrol.

    Besides they have multiple ways they are smuggling people, weapons & drugs into the US. Most people caught crossing the border are decoys anyway.
    The drug cartels pay them to create diversions while they get busy with the heavy duty crossings. That is why you need drones and a military presence on the border. Perry will get the manpower & firepower down to the border.

  • wearethevigilant

    Best comment of the night was when Newt said ” How
    can I trust you with power if you don’t pray?” my fellow Christian conservatives would agree ;to paraphrase Peter Grieg “We pray as if it all depends on God and work as if it all depends on us.”

    Paul’s refute of 999 was great. How is cutting a trillion in spending and eliminating 5 cabinet positions.

  • wonkish1

    Twice in reputable national polls, recently. And about 5 reputable state polls conducted recently

  • jackdaniels11

    Herman Cain’s first name, there is very little chance that he will consider backing Rick Perry. Have you noticed that Rick Perry has not picked up a single endorsement from a governor, U.S. senator, or U.S. Representative since September 23rd?

    As much as people are saying that Romney supporters lack enthusiasm, Perry can’t seem to get elected officials to stick out their necks for him. He won’t get the endorsements until he starts polling in the top two. And he won’t get that without going negative. Sad.

  • notpropagandized

    Perry may have slimed himself a little while clearly getting under Mitt’s skin, but the fallout for Romney could be disastrous!!!

    Quote of the Day – October 19, 2011
    “You can’t have any illegals working on our property. I’m running for office, for pete’s sake, we can’t have illegals.”
    — Mitt Romney, at last night’s Republican debate.
    http://politicalwire.com/archives/2011/10/19/quote_of_the_day.html

    Yes, whether anyone likes it or not, Perry is a player, again..

  • tyman

    I guess the same world where they have a 9-9-9 tax plan.

    This may seem snarky, but I really liked Herman until he started joining in with Mitt Romney and misrepresenting Perry, as well as being an accomplice in the media’s story about the rock.

    I thought Herman was above that, but he played right into their hands.

  • gekster

    No greenies or such to stop them

  • Common_Cents

    Because they’ll just be blown up by terrorists?

    Are you going on record saying the west bank barriers didn’t reduce violence?

    I’d like to know how it is any different.

  • avagreen

    Saved me from having to repeat it again……;)

  • Scope

    and I was disgusted with his comments. A caller said that he supported Perry because he thought Perry was the best Conservative on the stage last night. Steyn started going through the list of his “negatives.” He brought up Gardasil, and in-state tuition, and a few other points. Then he finished with saying that Perry was using leftist talking points with his heartless comment. My immediate thought was that Steyn just used leftist talking points against Perry, because he did not explain why he was against any one of those positions, but just pitched them the same as the leftists would. I make a bet that Rush’s emails are overfilled with disgust at Steyn’s positions. Rush has a lot of listeners, and a fill-in just trashed one of the candidates that many like and support. The only one Rush has gone against is Romney. Rush has called Perry a conservative.

    Speaking of Herb, that reminds me of Palin of course. She trashed Perry after the debate last night, on her lapdogs show Greta. She said that Perry was “petty.” I guess when you realize that she is working for Fox, the anti-Perry channel, what else would you expect. Also, she may have gotten in if Perry didn’t get in and steal her thunder, or so she thinks. Interesting that she didn’t hit Romney for being so petty in his constant attacks against Perry. Wasn’t she supposed to be the real true and great conservative? yet she goes after the conservative, and in essence backs the liberal R Romney.

  • avagreen

    Could not AGREE with you more.

    Yes, it is telling that all of a sudden the rest of the crowd is repeating Perry’s techniques….guess they got tired of beating the dead horse about his being “against building a fence, yada, yada, yada”.
    Good grief!

    Sneaky Petes, all!

  • cbartlett

    I have no problem if that 950% increase comes because they are no longer getting MY money back! I just don’t think that most legitimate taxpayers (i.e. people REALLY working for a living) realize that a substantial number of people in this country not only don’t pay ANY taxes, they actually get refunds from the federal dollars YOU pay. And yeah – everyone needs some skin in the game. Those people who do not pay anything (OR don’t pay anything AND get money back…) have a vested interest in voting for people who will continue the status quo. bs61 is right – when they become more than 50%, all bets are off – we’re all screwed!

  • Scope

    that Romney is picking up endorsements from the old line incumbent Senators and Reps. Notice most newbies in Washington have nor endorsed him, and many never will.

    What Governors or Congresspeople have endorsed Cain? What big organization or major donors have jumped on the Cain Train? The libertarian Koch Bros.?

    Perry has already picked up at least 4 Governor endorsements, last I heard. Romney picked up an endorsement from another liberal R governor and we are supposed to be impressed? That went over like a lead balloon.

    So if the Perry supporters learn Cain’s first name, which Palin is the only one I know that calls him Herb, then Cain will jump on Perry’s bandwagon? Not likely. Cain has proven himself to be a Romney lap dog.

  • avagreen

    and the 24 elected officials and conservative leaders in Arkansas, including 19 state lawmakers, four GOP county chairs, and National Committeewoman Reta Hamilton,
    http://www.rickperry.org/news/twenty-four-arkansas-elected-officials-and-gop-leaders-endorse-gov-perry-for-president/

    And, Florida House Speaker Dean Cannon, One of Florida?s most high-profile Republican politicians, U.S. Sen. Jim Inhofe?

    There are quite a few, actually. That have endorsed Perry.

  • acat

    It is great information, I’m just not sure what it’s in reply to.

    Seems to me, from your summation, that Romney is getting endorsements from big-name insider types, while Perry is winning at the grass-roots and statehouse level.

    Guess which one’s going to matter more come election day?

    Mew

  • cbartlett

    It occured to me today when buying something online, most states do not get sales tax on online sales. With Cain’s plan, everyone would at least pay his proposed national 9% on everything. Wonder if he’s counting on getting those millions of $$ in his profit/loss sheet for the 999 plan?

    Newt made one really good statement that I haven’t seen any mention of – concerning the relative time frame for all of these economic improvement/job creating proposals. Cain’s 999 plan will require repeal of an amendment and complete restructuring of the tax code. That absolutely will not happen overnight – it might be a good start and heaven knows, something needs to be done about the tax code, BUT it will probably take several years, IF he is able to get Congress to go along (doubtful?). What happens in the meantime? Newt’s plan and Perry’s energy proposals address job and general economic issues immediatley – then work on the long-term fixes.

  • wonkish1

    ??

  • nepanyrush

    That statement that you will not vote for Romney if he is the candidate overrides all the good that you wrote. Do you honestly believe there is no difference in Obama versus Romney or that there would have been no difference between McCain and Obama?

    As far as I understand it, the motto of Red State is to pick the best (most conservative) GOP candidate that is electable and then support any GOP candidate that gets the nod over Obama. By sitting out the general election should Romney get the nod, you are in effect casting a vote for Obama.

    Let’s be honest, there is a good chance that Romney will get the nomination. Perry got off the mat last night, but Romney has money and organization and has proven to be a formidable debater. I had thought Perry did really well last night, and Romney came off bad, but I also trust the instincts of the writers at National Review and many of them came away with another view — that Perry came off looking bad in the exchange with Romney and that Romney (and Gingrich) were again the best on the stage. (National Review had also endorsed Romney in 2008, citing a number of conservative positions that he had held since 1994.)

    But whatever your feeling about Romney, there is no way that anyone should sit out the 2012 election. I could see America going in irreversible decline should Obama get another 4 years.

  • cbartlett

    He has ALWAYS said that the in-state tuition is right for TEXAS and NOT for the rest of the country. He needs to emphasize in these public forums that the alternative for Texans is much worse. The next step for these kids who were not born here but dragged here at a very young age is that they drop out of public school (which Texas is required by federal law to provide to ALL of them, legal or not) and have an anchor baby as soon as possible so their chances of staying here increase dramatically and they can qualify for all sorts of government handouts. It is the only way they know how to survive – have a baby, get a check – based on the great example of their parents. The we have one more generation perpetuating the broken system. At least if a few of these kids (and don’t kid yourself, not all of them can, or have the intellectual ability to), take advantage of the opportunity to get in-state tuition, those few stand a chance of breaking that mold. And they are required to apply for citizenship – maybe they’d actually learn something int he process. Perry consistently says we need to enforce the borders FIRST. You can’t solve any of the other problems until you STOP THE FLOW.

  • avagreen

    I make comments, and then find I’m not logged on, and when I log on, then my reply goes someplace else.
    Sure did think I was responding to him as I hit the “reply to this” button under his post.
    But, thanx for asking, and the comments. :)

  • Scope

    and it appears that he has chosen to take the turn that leads away from away from conservatism. What a shame, but I’ve said for a while that we were going solely on what he said, without having any record to go by.

    This morning Cain was interviewed by CNN’s Carol Costello. She asked him about the fire he took in the debate last night concerning his 999 plan. He told her that those that questioned his plan were “getting on his last nerve.” He accused many in the debate last night of not understanding his plan, and kept telling everyone to visit his website to learn the details of the plan. The problem happens to be that he himself doesn’t provide the details to answer the many questions that some have. So he accuses his opponents of not doing their homework to look for the answers, even though those answers are not provided.

    Cain was interviewed by Piers Morgan. Morgan asked him who he would support for the presidency out of the field. He said he was getting up there in the polls, so of course he supported himself, OK. After that he said he has an enormous amount of respect for Gov. Romney and Newt Gingrich. Morgan asked him who he thought would not be a good president, and Cain, in a protective stance, said Ron Paul. He said that Ron Paul wanted to just through things out, rather than to try to fix them. WHAT!!! Now we know that Cain will not shrink government, but like the best intentioned socialist who thinks they are the ones that can make it work, so does Cain think he can “fix” the problems in big government, rather than getting rid of them.

    Morgan asked Cain about his positions on gay marriage and abortion. Cain still believes that gayness is a choice, but as to them marrying, it should be left up to the states. He said that he is pro-life and doesn’t personally agree with abortion in almost any case. He said that he would not inflict his personal beliefs on the population, and that abortion should be an issue left up to the states. So, the states can murder the unborn? He, and Romney did not sign the SBA pro-life pledge.

    Who in the hel1 is this man becoming?

    BTW- His 999 plan is rapidly becoming the Nein Nein Nein plan.

  • cbartlett

    Newt / Biden debate would be SO much fun!

    And you guys who think Obama would beat up Perry are wrong. Perry is much, much better one-on-one than he is in these wide-open formats. And Obama is so far out there on the left, Perry will have no problem sacking him on every issue. Obama can’t do anything without a teleprompter. His advisors probably know that it’d be a disaster and might try to get out of it. Obama is such a narcissist, he’ll probably take it on….

  • izoneguy

    Israel?s Security Fence

    I know all about Israel?s Security Fence.

    The secruity fence is the largest infrastructure project in Israel’s history. The cost of the project has ballooned from an expected $1 billion to more than $2.1 billion. Each kilometer of fence costs approximately $2 million.
    So 1800 miles is about 2896 kilometers or about $5.8 billion if you use the figures of the Israel?s Security Fence. Not at all unreasonable. But you are talking about the federal govt building the fence….so I would budget about $50 billion for a fence that would go from the Texas Gulf border to the California pacific border. How long would it take? Let’s say you could
    build 300 foot per day working 24/7/365. At that pace you could build one mile of fence in 17 days. 1800 miles x 17 days would be 30,600 days or about 83 years. So yes the border fence would be ready to go in 2094.
    Of course you could hire 10 times as many people and cut that down to
    about 8 years. I imagine building a border fence would be great for all those big union contractors that the feds love so much.

    Of course the new fence would have to be better than what we have.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    that makes lawsuits much harder to get to the jury much less be successful (although many employers settle cases due to the risk, even when microscopic).

    The threat of allegations of fraud will always be there.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    has or hasn’t a garden-gate. Does Perry investigate all in-state tuition illegals to make sure that the income that pays the tuition is earned legally? no

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    and again, does Perry make sure that all those in-state tuitions are paid by legal workers’ incomes?

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    Since states cannot enforce the immigration laws only the feds can do that, and since they are stuck with people who might have been here since infancy and consider themselves Americans, but they don’t have the the paperwork.

    It makes no sense to deny them education and create a permanent underclass. This makes good economic sense in the long run.

  • bzip

    I had lived in San Diego and I can tell you building a fence the entire border isn’t going to solve the problem. Perry is right, fence the areas that will gain the most out of it.

    In San Diego massive tunnels have been dug, big enough for drug traffic and even car traffic :-) . Fencing isn’t the answer, it is only part of the answer.

  • izoneguy

    Obama says the border fence is “now basically complete”

    But the same day as Obama’s speech, Sen. Jim DeMint penned an op-ed for National Review in which he countered that the Obama administration has “not done its job to finish the border fence that is a critical part of keeping Americans safe and stopping illegal immigration.”

    “Five years ago, legislation was passed to build a 700-mile double-layer border fence along the southwest border,” DeMint wrote. “This is a promise that has not been kept. Today, according to staff at the Department of Homeland Security, just 5 percent of the double-layer fencing is complete, only 36.3 miles.”

    So what gives? Is the border fence “now basically complete” or not?

    Not to go all Clinton on you, but it largely depends on how you define “fence.”

    You need to go back to the Secure Fence Act of 2006, which was passed by a Republican Congress and signed by President George W. Bush. It authorized the construction of hundreds of miles of additional fencing along the border with Mexico. The act specified “at least two layers of reinforced fencing.”

    But the law was quietly altered in a significant way the following year.

    Responding to urging from the Department of Homeland Security — which argued that different border terrains required different types of fencing, that a one-size-fits-all approach across the entire border didn’t make sense — Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, proposed an amendment to give DHS the discretion to decide what type of fence was appropriate in different areas. The law was amended to read, “nothing in this paragraph shall require the Secretary of Homeland Security to install fencing, physical barriers, roads, lighting, cameras, and sensors in a particular location along an international border of the United States, if the Secretary determines that the use or placement of such resources is not the most appropriate means to achieve and maintain operational control over the international border at such location.”

    In other words, Border Patrol would have the leeway to decide which type of fencing was appropriate in various regions.

    But is it accurate for Obama to claim that “the fence is now basically complete”?

    DHS reports that there is now fencing for 649 of the 652 miles described in the Secure Fence Act of 2006. But the vast majority of the requirement was met with vehicle barriers and single-layer pedestrian fence. The original act specifically called for double-layer fencing, and only 36.3 miles of double-layered fencing currently exist. However, the act was later amended to allow Border Security the discretion to determine which type of fencing was appropriate for different areas.

    So Obama can make a case that the vehicle barriers and single-layer pedestrian fences meet the amended letter of the law. But we also think Obama misleads, particularly when he mocks Republican opponents, saying that even though the fence has been built, “They’ll want want a higher fence. Maybe they?ll need a moat. Maybe they want alligators in the moat.” The Border Patrol has not gone “above and beyond” what Republicans requested, as Obama claimed. What they originally requested was a double-layer fence, and they didn’t get much of it. And so we rate Obama’s statement Barely True.

  • bzip

    I was initially sicken by this, living by the border it hit home with me and it took my a while to get over this. After reaching and listen to all sides on the in state tuition I have come to not only accept it but tend to agree with it (at least until there is a better answer). I would much rather have educated than non-educated people who can be a asset to our society rather than leeches.

  • cbartlett

    Wish Perry would say it like that! the rest of the country doesn’t know it – they only know the “shyt” that the LSM (and the Romney campaign) put out there. Opportunity for in-state tuition for illegals is right for Texas – Perry has NEVER said the rest of the country has to do it!!!

  • cbartlett

    n/t

  • LibertyWins

    or the closest thing to Obama in the GOP field. If Perry can throw a few verbal punches at Romney, he can do the same to Obama. Obama has never been challenged like Perry challenged Romney last night. Obama would have a mental meltdown on national television.

    Perry just proved he can take it to the enemy and hit him hard. Perry is a street fighter and precisely the man to take on a Chicago politician such as Obama. I believe Perry just embodied the Conservative Bull Dog we have been waiting for since Ronald Reagan rode into the sunset 22 years ago.

  • LibertyWins

    Perry would mop the floor with Obama.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    conversion just a few weeks ago on amnesty NOW sans voting rights. The moral underpinning of all laws against non-felon illegals that have been here for many years is suspect since the de facto rule of law was open borders. To now insist on calling these de facto Americans criminals is akin to the Prohibition era.

    I still favor a fence and enforcing immigration laws but even to treat these human bings like criminals before a fence is morally indefensible, imho.

    Hence, I wrote this a few weeks ago “admitting” my change

    http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2011/10/03/gop-can-affirm-rule-of-law-and-define-amnesty-down/

    I think this new position affirms my morals and conservative principles.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    to make prudent decisions – Yes, given the Prohibition dynamic game. I agree; and 2) They all have dirty hands… – YES, and in that context, I went too far to write Perry off. He’s human and worse, a politician. Conservatism demands understanding the limits since Eve bit the apple.

    But, NEVER again must you concede that me or anyone else is a “smart guy” simply because they graduated from law school! Never!

    Yes, I am brilliant! smile, but you have taught me more and this lawyer thinks too much deference is given to lawyers in this society.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    smile
    Force yourself!
    I admit that I have not read the link but I will. I was an econ major (summa cum laude, phi beta kappa) and read econ for fun!
    But one thing that this 9-9-9 debate (and it has been very intellectually invigorating and informative, not in small part thanks to you and streiff) has been to show how our current system (and any system) has many of the same inbed aspects of Euro VATs that we abhor.

    And 2) that ALL tax systems have many bad aspects and that we too often attack change by comparing the change to a perfect system that has and will never exist.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    It will retain many INHERENT aspects of VATs and that it doesn’t prevent adulteration down the line, just like 9-9-9. They all do.

    And could I suggest that much of the assault on 9-9-9 is driven by fear of Cain as a viable candidate. I think so. I admit that I, a former Mitt supporter in 2008 and a leaner to Cain now, does harbor a certain wish that Perry be the nominee due to his long great conservative record in Texas and the “safety” of a Flat Tax.

    And I think that no matter which Republican wins the nomination, will defeat the already Depression dead Obama. And that no matter who is the GOP nominee there will be an economic boom immediately that will be GREAT for a time.

    But that we are in a crisis that is very severe and that over the mid- to long term, the only we hope we have is a radical and bold change that only Cain offers.

    This is my rogue(ish) politics and vasser inspired view.

  • AceInTX

    It’s bad form to make an accusation and back it up with nothing but dead bandwidth…

    you opened your pie hole…now back it up with facts or begone!

  • AceInTX

    but in election after election I’ve seen him start off looking like a buffoon only to cream the opposition over time…

    Maybe it IS a rope a dope…maybe it is just an uncanny ability to make mistakes early…learn from them and turn the errors into pluses later on…or it’s just luck…but he’s never lost an election and each one he’s won has followed a similar pattern of early flubs followed by back breaking efficiency and brilliance down the stretch. and a W in the win loss collumn

    What I am sayin without equivocation is…Don’t count him out…especially when he is sitting on a fundraising machine that can turn out $17 Million in one quarter and running against a favorite who leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the base and can’t get over 25%

  • Scope

    but when someone goes so far off the reservation, and onto a reservation that is so unrecognizable, it is time to call foul. And that has been what your posts have reminded me of, stinky.

    Vassar would have rejected your ideas, methods of supporting your candidate, methods of attacking those you don’t like, and ever changing principles as not being rogue, but more than a little shallow, vain, and unintelligent and misinformed.

    Your weak, and over board attacks, and more so, your weak supports, have put you in the non-credible column. I’m sure that many are scratching their heads at your latest diatribes and shilling. You never used to be like that. Sad.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    more specific

    and hey gal, can GC be allowed some emotional moments? Not that you ever respond in that way….smile…pweese

  • supergirl2911

    why am I listening to Dick Morris who also slammed Perry. It’s like he is living on another planet. He just said Perry is like a concert performing musician feeding off the crowd’s energy. And he said that Romney is like a studio musician who just does it and doesn’t need the crowd’s energy. Really? Really? I have to turn the channel.

  • supergirl2911

    for Perry….. Bill Burton says Perry won.

  • GregInFla

    Like Rush says, I do not know why these guys cater to the liberal press. It does them absolutely no good. Every question usually is based on a false premise. And no answer is ever correct.

    WRT gayness, I agree with Cain. It is a choice. No established scientific evidence has been found to the contrary.

    I agree with his statement on marriage. In fact, a libertarian would say the same thing, and marriage would have no place in the law anyways. To the courts, marriage is a partnership contract of unknown content, with said content to be determined when the parties of the contract want to dissolve it, and determined by people who had no part in the forming of the contract or its execution while in force. That’s why the State should likely not get involved in it. The State is only involved in marriage because it has decided to bestow benefits on those who are married. And the cost to the married are the issues with its dissolution described above. And no, I am not against marriage; I’ve been married (to the same wonderful lady) for 27 years.

    His statement on abortion is same as Fred Thompson’s was, and I’m a Fredhead. I don’t like the statement, but legally it is likely the best we can hope for.

  • conservativemusician

    Morris also said he was going to be having interviews with all the candidates on their positions on the issues, but I haven’t seen him interview Perry yet. I wonder why? Hmmm. He’s in the tank for Cain, I think, and his take on the Romney-Perry immigration flare up was that Romney schooled him and Perry looked unpresidential. I normally like his analysis and he’s a smart guy who knows a lot about strategery, but he’s just plain old wrong on this one.

    I’m noticing that the general reaction from the talking heads is negative on Perry and positive on Romney. This speaks volumes to me in that the establishment is working overtime to get Romney over the finish line as soon as possible. I think, though, that the fight for the anti-Romney votes have just begun and Perry signaled to everyone last night that he isn’t going to take any more crap from anyone without a response. It’s a beautiful thing…and about time.

  • supergirl2911

    I have wondered about it…er…perhaps hopefully?

  • Right_Again

    he was out of control.

  • GregInFla

    should have their taxes “rise”. We agree there. It might be from a negative amount (credit) to zero.

  • acat

    As the in-state tuition is paid for by tax dollars – sales and property – it is therefore earned by any who are provably domiciled in the State, legally or not.

    An Okie, living in his car in the parking lot of a Plano, TX office complex is just as much a resident and pays just as much sales tax on his nachos con queso as a Mexican who just crossed the border as a native son of Texas, and therefore – legally – is just as entitled to that in-state rate.

    Looked at that way, what Perry did was to hold illegals to a higher standard than Okies. (the latter only have to live in Texas 1 year to get the in-state rate)

    Mew

  • supergirl2911

    why again do I watch Luntz bring out people who think Perry did poorly and that Mitt won? Really? “That is one of the worst things we have ever seen since we have been doing this.” “That is one of the if not the highest rated things we have seen on this show.” Blah, Blah, Blah…..

  • onemovoter

    during the debate and he was cheer-leading more than doing analysis. His reactions were contrary to others I was following on Twitter. I now generally don’t listen to Dick on the candidates, I will listen to him on issues to see if I can pick up some kind of inside scoop.

    Otherwise Dick is useless right now. At least with Erick, you are getting strait up analysis for the current point in time.

  • florida772

    MEREDITH, NH ? According to the Associated Press, Republican Presidential candidate Mitt Romney fired the landscaper for his suburban Boston home after learning for a second time about undocumented workers laboring on the property.

    In a statement issued Tuesday after he concluded his campaign appearances for the day, Romney said: “After this same issue arose last year, I gave the company a second chance with very specific conditions. They were instructed to make sure people working for the company were of legal status.

    “We personally met with the company in order to inform them about the importance of this matter,” he said. “The owner of the company guaranteed us, in very certain terms, that the company would be in total compliance with the law going forward.”

    Romney termed the recurrence “disappointing and inexcusable.” The company, Community Lawn Service of Chelsea, Mass., did not return a call seeking comment.

  • californiagold

    The more I learn of Romney’s record, and the more I listen to him in the debates, the more I have serious concerns regarding many of his leftist big government positions.

    Not to repeat the obvious, but RomneyCare is the model for ObamaCare. Romney has yet to denounce RomneyCare. In fact, Romney praises it to this day using language that a typical liberal would make when supporting ObamaCare.

    On the social issues, Romney has flipped flopped so many times, I doubt he even knows what he latest positions are.

    With respect to foreign policy, I doubt Romney would be much different than Obama. In fact, Obama hasn’t been much different than Bush with respect to the wars, Gitmo, etc….

    Finally, if Romney becomes president, along with Mcconnell and Boehner, the tea party movement will be isolated. If that were to happen, it will mean more government spending, more regulations, and less liberty.

  • californiagold

    The more I learn of Romney’s record, and the more I listen to him in the debates, the more I have serious concerns regarding many of his leftist big government positions.

    Not to repeat the obvious, but RomneyCare is the model for ObamaCare. Romney has yet to denounce RomneyCare. In fact, Romney praises it to this day using language that a typical liberal would make when supporting ObamaCare.

    On the social issues, Romney has flipped flopped so many times, I doubt he even knows what his latest positions are.

    With respect to foreign policy, I doubt Romney would be much different than Obama. In fact, Obama hasn’t been much different than Bush with respect to the wars, Gitmo, etc….

    Finally, if Romney becomes president, along with Mcconnell and Boehner, the tea party movement will be isolated. If that were to happen, it will mean more government spending, more regulations, and less liberty.

  • mahlalie

    that people weren’t answering the questions they had been asked, something Bachmann more than anyone does on a continual basis, incidentally.I felt like it was a last straw kinda moment. No matter how you dice it, Perry’s attitude was very disrespectful to the process as are the actions of most of the candidates when they ignore questions in favor of saying whatever they darn well please. They have campaign speeches for that.

  • AceInTX

    This is not at all inconsistent with what I said…it fact…it supports what I said. He was called on the immigrant issue by the press. He explained it away and said he’d fix it….went back to situation normal when he thought the heat was off and then fired the landscaper only after he was called on it the second time by the press

    Make an accusation…BACK IT UP!!!

    You said I haven’t checked my facts….BACK IT UP!!!

    If you can’t back it up try to learn from this because long time posters hear are expected to defend their comments with facts and if you can’t do that…you have no business here.

  • tyman

    He’s filled in for Hannity on Fox Noise. Maybe he wants his own show there and he CAN’T be for Perry.

    I’m glad I turned it off before I heard that. I really hope the dittoheads have inundated Rush’s e-mail about that. Very disappointing.

    If anyone calling themselves a conservative was offended by the “I don’t think you have a heart” comment, then they need to do a gut check. To have a knee jerk reaction like that is typical of the leftists. So many conservatives have not really looked into those issues. Perry is a pragmatist, and while those issues may not look conservative to the casual observer, there is WAY-Y-Y more underneath that folks don’t see.

    Regarding Palin, is it any wonder she didn’t run. I’m glad she didn’t. She, of all people, should understand about defending yourself against lies and distortions and that’s what Perry did. I might add, he showed that Romney is NOT unflappable. You betcha! What an opportunist hack she is. If she’s Perry’s “friend”, she’s got a funny way of showing it.

    And what’s up with Gretchen having Michele Bachmann? My goodness, what is the point? I guess Fox knows that Bachmann is helping Romney so they’ve got to help her stay in it for as long as possible.

    Even if I didn’t like Perry, I think I’d support him just because of all the manure he’s taken from all sides. Speaking of fertilizer, it would have been hysterical if Herb had called his plan 10-10-10. That really would have been apropos!

  • Scope

    so many Ron Paul supporters. And now that he is being funded by the libertarian Koch brothers, he suddenly forgets his strong positions and speeches that convinced the conservatives he was one of them. If getting funding for a campaign that was not doing well in the fundraising column means changing your core principles, then that makes him no better than the flip flopper Romney. No thanks.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    no…text…

  • defenseconservative

    Those are issues reserved for the states, not for the federal government. The Federal Government has no right to either legalize or ban them. It is up for every state to make its own laws on these subjects.

    Don’t get me wrong. I am as opposed to abortion and gay marriage as anyone. I merely recognize – unlike Scope – that they are state issues.

    The problem with abortion and gay marriage is NOT that they used to be run by states. The problem is that the federal judiciary has seized both issues and has issued illegal one-size-fits-all decrees to states on these subjects.

    You can’t be pro-10th Amendment some of the time and anti-10th Amendment some of the time. Either you believe in the 10th Amendment or you do not. As your beloved RINO, Rick Perry, recognized a few months ago, “Our friends in New York have decided to legalize gay marriage. And you know what? If you truly believe in the 10th Amendment, stay out of their business.”

    It is none of your business what the marriage and abortion laws are in states other than your own.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    and Dad’s (also a legal worker, ie US Citizen). Perry bemoans a Mass gardener’s income yet accepts the illegal income for instate tuition payments.

  • florida772

    He went back to the company told them only legal residents could work on his lawn, when they still refused to comply he fired them. Look i understand your fustration but dont take cheap shots.

  • acat

    None of y’all can deport a single illegal.

    Romney’s reaction was about him, his career, his future.

    Perry’s was about the future of the illegals themselves.

    Mew

  • westcoastpatriette

    I think Perry’s strategy in calling out Mitt’s personal involvement with inadvertently employing a company that employed illegals was simply a way to magnify how the issue victimizes all of us to a degree. And rather than the point being that Perry was accusing Mitt of committing crimes, Perry was just trying to neutralize Mitt’s assertion that Perry is weak on illegal immigration by showing that Mitt’s involvement could be looked upon with disdain as well–if that’s the way you wanna play the game. This is why it is dangerous to start attacking each other over this issue because the problem can easily come back and bite ya’ leaving you with a big hypocrite label.

    With respect to solving the problem, I have been consistently clear on the way I think we should go and why I think it is the best solution. If we would stop pointing fingers and remember the following three points, we could stop fighting about what is fair to the illegals.

    Based upon the fact that our system of governance revolves around respecting the rule of law as it applies to all Americans, the three primary offenders that should be dealt with are thus:

    1. The illegal aliens who chose to break the law to come and stay here.

    2. The employers who hire them.

    3. The federal government who has neglected the problem.

    The answers lie in correcting the problem at its root which can only happen when we correct number three first who should be enforcing the laws with the full cooperation of the states. Together, they should be enforcing the laws so that illegals no longer are tolerated and employers are treated like the felons they are when they choose to hire illegal labor.

    In my opinion, the reason there is so much outrage and resistance toward granting any kind of amnesty is because it is fundamentally unfair to the vast majority of the rest of Americans who are very law abiding and see no reason we should change the rules and make exceptions for the millions who are here illegally. That would be unjust and has proven to do nothing but exacerbate the problem.

    I disagree with those who say we can’t do anything until the border is sealed. I also don’t buy “there is no way we can deport millions of people” and feign powerlessness over the problem in order to justify granting amnesty.

    We would be pleasantly surprised to watch the majority leave on their own if we would all simply get on the same page with respect to enforcement of immigration laws.

  • kaheo

    in the sense that 35% do not support illegals in any shape or form. The other 65% are for border security but are sympathetic to those who’ve made it here already. If this was not the case, they would not have voted Democratic in 2008. The legal Hispanics view the SB 1070 law and other similar laws as potentially racial profiling thus they will swing to the Democrats if Republicans keep pushing for such laws. I’m guessing also that most Hispanics/Blacks/White in Texas support in-state tuition for illegals due to sympathetic reasons. Rick Perry and the Texas legislature supported in-state tuition for this same reason – failure to do so would have resulted in the Hispanic vote swinging the other way. I fail to understand why Hispanics have been increasingly departing the Republican party if its not for this reason. Please enlighten me.

  • AceInTX

    you accuse me of not checking facts and by implication distorting or getting facts wrong and your answer is to regurgitate Romney Talking Points as if there are facts contained therein.

    Just because Romney says something doesn’t make it so. The FACTS are the press called Romney for having hired a lawn company who employs illegal aliens…he went through a stretch where he said and did the right things until people stopped paying attention and went back to situation normal until the press called him on it a second time.

    If you want to take his lame excuses as gospel as if just because he said it it must be true that’s fine with me. I choose not to believe him because he’s never given me reason to trust what he says about anything…but the demonstrable facts remain what I said they were and you have yet to show me that I have made an assertion that can’t be backed up with facts.

  • AceInTX

    somehow my comment title got cut off

  • florida772

    the issue at hand, he was confronted with evidence that a private contractor hired illegal immigrants, Romney gave them a second chance to correct the issue after they failed to comply he fired them. Secondly for Perry to criticize anyone on immigration is hypocritical as he is the weakest of anyone in the field on that issue. Finally, AceinTx have you ever hired a contracted to do work on your house, if so did you ask to the immigration status of each employee working on your home?

  • AceInTX

    because you can’t back it up…the facts and specifics are as I laid them out…we both agree on the facts and the details….that leaves us with whether we believe Romney as to what he did and why…I don’t trust him because he’s proven over and over and over again that he can’t be trusted and will say anything to hide the fact that he isn’t perfect in every way….

    I believe him to be a liar so what he says has little relevance to me….

    as to whether Perry is worse than Romney on immigration and who is the bigger hypocrite, Romney opened the door knowing full we Giuliani slammed him on the lawn company in 2007 so why in hell’s half acre he’d be surprised like he obviously was the other night is beyond me…he opened the door and by attacking Perry relentlessly on the issue and Perry simply showed Romney does no have clean hands on the issue.

  • florida772

    i guess Romney has a heart? I get confused on which rick perry is running this time around. In response to the rudy attack it fell flat in 08 just like it did when perry tries to use it. see every media outlet beside redstate for example. I also see you didn’t respond to the question of whether you check the legality of anyone who works on your house?

  • AceInTX

    You can not

    retract the accusation

    As to whether I check the immigration status of every person who has worked on my house, the answer is no….I used to live in San Antonio and I’d be surprised if 60 % of the people who have worked on my house weren’t illegals…that’s not the point…had Romney fired the lawn company and hired another this wouldn’t be an issue…but he didn’t…he waited till the press called him on it the second time before taking action….

    The point is….Romney’s hands are not clean on the immigrant issue….yet he chose to attack Perry continuously over the immigration issue over a period of weeks and Perry responded

    As to whether Perry’s question on the subject fell flat….really?

    Your initial post to me was in response to my pointing out Romney has had 5 years to put this issue to bed yet he pissed his pants when Perry dropped this bomb on him. He was visibly shaken and made a gaffe that has been reported far and wide that he was running for Peresident….”of course he could have Illegals” working for him…

    it fell an anything but flat.

  • AceInTX

    he was running for President?.?of course he couldN’T have Illegals? working for him?

  • florida772

    it was brought to his attention, he sat down with the company told them to not have undocumented workers moving his lawn, after a year it was brought to his attention and he fired the company, he didn’t check immigration status just like you. You make it seem that this is a continuing problem for him when it was clearly addressed in december of 2007.

  • AceInTX

    c

  • powertothepeople

    not even close.

    If you are going to defend him, so be it, but at least be decent enough and not try to pass of made up crap as his defense.

  • florida772

    that he used the same company after December of 07?

  • florida772

    reply to aceintx

  • AceInTX

    If you can’t man up and admit when you are wrong when you accuse a person of playing fast and loose with facts when you are demonstrably wrong, I will say without equivocation or hesitation…you sir are a coward of the first order….

    and with that….I bid you good day

  • AceInTX

    If you can?t man up and admit when you are wrong when you accuse a person of playing fast and loose with facts when you are demonstrably wrong, I will say without equivocation or hesitation?you sir are a coward of the first order?.

    and with that?.I bid you good day

  • westbrook348

    because he’s a good debater and uses a tone of righteous indignation and impatience for time-wasting, unimportant topics.

    Perry can’t get way w/ it because he comes off as a low IQ doofus just trying to dodge the question because he doesn’t have a good answer for it.

  • LibertyWins

    noted