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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

The Horserace for October 27, 2011

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  October 27th, 2011 at 12:50 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

Is Rick Perry wasting our time? He came out with a great energy plan. He came out with an amazing economic plan. But I get the sense the campaign is in denial. Word is leaking that he may start skipping debates.

I don’t blame anyone for skipping some of the debates. There are far too many and they do little more than provoke fights without substantive conversations on the issues. I’m cool with any of the candidates skipping debates. But the Heritage/AEI debate on Foreign Policy must be non-negotiable for all the candidates. They need to be there and answer these questions. Foreign policy is the one area in the constitution the President largely has unrestricted power. We need to know what they would do.

I don’t think the Perry campaign really understands just how uninspired Rick Perry has left his own base of supporters, let alone the existing undecideds. To his credit though, he gave an entire speech this week and did not mention Texas. He’s learning. I don’t think he is wasting our time. But he needs to shore up his base of support quickly — probably more quickly than his campaign realizes.

In the meantime, the Romney camp is still targeting the Perry camp, largely because they don’t see the Cain camp as viable. The Cain camp continues building steam. Ron Paul is encountering his own version of Romney’s problem, and sneaking up from the rear is a guy most of us had written off.

We’ll get into all in the Horserace.

Michele Bachmann

The Bachmann camp really believes she can make a play in Iowa and take on Mitt Romney. She is not a Romney stalking horse. That may be what happens with her in the race. But her campaign really believes it can win Iowa. Unfortunately for Bachmann, the money is not flowing as she’d like it. Her New Hampshire team is gone — not that she ever cared about New Hampshire. But it seems the wheels are coming off the Bachmann campaign as it has veered off a path to victory and onto a path of irrelevance. Notwithstanding that, Michele Bachmann has a strong chance to revitalize at the Heritage/AEI debate. She is very, very good on foreign policy and has a background on the Intelligence Committee the other candidates do not.

Herman Cain

That Herman Cain ad is just weird. This is a mirror of the Perry problem. Perry imploded in debates and proved himself not a credible candidate based on his handling of the debates. Cain has released some of the stupidest ads this campaign season. His problem is the overall image of his campaign.

It has worked to his advantage so far in that the other candidates ignored him and he got into first place. But he can only stay there for so long and projecting a frivolous image in his advertising won’t help. That said, as the race stands right now, any consolidation that happens against Romney is going to help Cain.

We know, however, the Romney camp is not worried about him. Why? They’ve barely touched him. When the Romney camp goes into attack mode, you’ll know Herman’s lead is more locked in.

Newt Gingrich

Gingrich is going after Cain. It’s a wise move for him. His polling is coming up. It has surprised a lot of people, myself included, who thought his campaign was dead. He’s got a pulse and he sees a path to victory. But that path involves taking out Herman Cain and hoping that the Cain supporters come to him.

We’re all seeing the phenomenon. When one candidate peaks and falls, someone else goes up against Romney. Gingrich thinks he is the next guy to go up and it is a smart guess to make. If Cain implodes, his supporters will go to Gingrich or back to Perry. Of course, Gingrich has to throw Cain off his game without seeming like a bad guy. That’s while he’ll focus on the national sales tax part of 999.

Jon Huntsman

Does he still have a campaign?

Ron Paul

Ron Paul has a Mitt Romney problem. Romney is capped out at about 25% of the electorate. For Romney, that’s good enough to be the nominee if the race does not consolidate. Paul is capped out at about 13%. That’s not good enough to be the nominee. He does not have the ability to build a winning coalition. Ironically, a lot of polling shows most Paul supporters would drift to Romney. So Paul staying in hurts Romney more than anyone else. But he will not be the nominee.

Rick Perry

He had a good debate performance in Vegas. But just one really good performance. His campaign now says he may stop debating. He cannot have one good performance after a series of flubs and decide he is good. He particularly cannot miss the Heritage/AEI debate, though I suspect a number of the questioners would be hostile to him. He just can’t do it. Why? Because they are the two big conservative think tanks and foreign policy is a relevant, pressing issue that has yet to be explored.

Perry can skip a lot of the December debates. Hell, he and the rest of the candidates should go on now and say no to NBC’s January debate with the hacks from Politifact.

But he cannot skip this coming debate after just one good performance. If he does, I think it is game over for him because he’ll look both scared and weak.

All that said, Perry’s jobs/energy and economic plans have been super solid, very conservative, and filled with pro-growth, limited government ideas. He can be proud of his plans. He has an expanded team and a lot of money. But Perry needs to re-engage.

I don’t think his campaign understands just how frustrated his core supporters are, how depressed they are by him on the trail, and how badly undecided voters think he has performed. Perry needs to do serious damage control to win hearts and minds and he only has about a month and a half to do it. He’s got the money. I’m not sure he has the time or the self-discipline.

Mitt Romney

The odds grow every day that Mitt Romney will be the nominee. He is continuing to focus on Perry because his analysis is the same as mine — this remains really a Perry v. Romney race. Romney has kept the base from settling for him because of his last debate performance, his Ohio misstep earlier this week, and the rest of his record.

But as long as the field does not consolidate against him, he can survive and win without the race settling. Mitt Romney will be the nominee unless Perry, Gingrich, or Cain seriously step up their game.

Rick Santorum

Santorum will not be the nominee.

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COMMENTS

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  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …is double-bladed.

    On the one hand, there is an obvious sense of urgency emerging BUT…

    On the other hand, no one votes for another two-plus months!

    [to be continued]

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …for this weekly posting to arrive, because I plan to amalgamate input from another site in an effort to reformulate the fear-factors that appear to have emerged on multiple-fronts.

    I will NOT be long-winded, and I will chop-up commentary by – for example – citing what has been uploaded extensively elsewhere.

    http://www.redstate.com/neil_stevens/2011/10/27/perry-had-better-get-fed-up-fast-this-is-herman-cain-time/#comment-16493

    The very fact that a “horserace” even exists is the byproduct of the punditry-class that seeks those who are attracted to pseudo-validators.

    The FNC-component of the problem can be cogently addressed by, for example, noting that Perry will be the sole-guest [lasting a half-hour, not a full-hour, if prior structures--which include the expanded-allstars--is to be respected] on Chris Wallace’s show on Sunday. Noting that Perry did well with O’Reilly hasn’t ameliorated his critics but, to a significant degree, little can.

    Nevertheless, EE’s commentary can be simplified.

    [to be continued]

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    First of all, there is a typo ["word"].

    Second, this may be due to his comment on O’Reilly that the debates appeared designed to create a circular firing-squad.

    Third, however, I suspect he will abide by input from his new-team…which will arm him with a mindset that will permit him to let-loose with quotes from “Fed Up!” while sound-biting his practiced-delivery.

    This is free airtime, and he has an agenda that must target both Romney/Cain.

  • NeoKong

    If the GOP establishment and the liberal media both like Romney then that makes me not want him even more.
    The GOP rode the Tea Party wave into power and then turned around and told them to get lost.
    No boat rockers need apply.

    He cannot seem to get any support among the people who might actually vote for him.
    Having the support of Charles Krauthammer and Bill Kristol are great but unless he can score a few primaries he might have a hard time getting the nomination.
    If Cain has another good debate and Romney gets mired in another brawl with Perry he’ll never break out.

    Don’t forget that he was knocked out by John McCain and McCain was destroyed by Barack Obama.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …is basically dominated by The Newt, who is really the only one who could rise. As noted by EE, Romney/Paul are capped, Huntman/Santorum have such negligible constituencies that it wouldn’t even be worth pondering which other candidate would benefit from their disappearances from the scene. The world of Michele/Sarah may benefit from discussion of world-affairs, but the caricatures are destined to dog the remnants of the TEA Party Movement who have been slimed by the MSM/LSM.

    The Newt is smart but, remember, he resisted in-vain being tied to the Individual Mandate. Try as he might to escape the elitist label, he isn’t a TPM-oriented candidate [notwithstanding support he enjoys, for example, in Bucks County, PA]. I constantly cringe when replaying video from FNC as he stridently attacked BHO’s moves on Libya…even as they evolved. His “baggage” injures potential TPM-supporters who weigh social-issues, and these constants are not likely to evolve…even if a “comeback” narrative emerges.

    I know that I’m subject to critique when adhering to a bilateral race, but this is the model upon which the campaigns themselves are basing their plans. Rick has $ and is generating policies methodically. His base of supporters is rock-solid, albeit wary. When conversations turn to policy, he is unscathed. Key-conservative endorsements are pending. The primary-season has yet to play-out.

  • dankingbooks

    The old saw is you only get one chance to make a first impression. Rick Perry beat the odds and has had three chances and screwed up every one of them..

    In the first two debates he essentially wasn’t there. And for the third one he tried to convince us that the most important issue of the day is who mowed Mitt Romney’s lawn five years ago.

    Needless to say he’s dropped in the polls, never to recover. No amount of money or pandering tax plans (he even keeps the mortgage deduction!) is going to dig him out of that hole.

    Rick Perry will not be the nominee.

  • clintonformccain

    <blockqoute.McCain was destroyed by Barack Obama

    That has absolutely no relevance to 2012. Not even a whiff of predictive value to the 2012 race.

    There was no way a Republican – any Republican – was going to win in 2008. The country was sick of Republicans at that moment in time.

  • cajungirl2012

    Too. Much. Baggage. Come on people. Are we going to make it that easy for Obama?

    Correct: The longer the conservative field remains split among a handful of candidates, the more likely it is that a RINO with no core values, no personal appeal and no real following will lose to Obama.

    Voters reject candidates like John Kerry who twist in the wind. Romney would be lampooned mercilessly by Obama’s media who, by the way, are currently anointing him inevitable.

  • bzip

    That is the take home message I get from Erick and what has been said many times before by a number of people. From Erick above:

    Mitt Romney:
    The odds grow every day that Mitt Romney will be the nominee. He is continuing to focus on Perry because his analysis is the same as mine ? this remains really a Perry v. Romney race. Romney has kept the base from settling for him because of his last debate performance, his Ohio misstep earlier this week, and the rest of his record.

    But as long as the field does not consolidate against him, he can survive and win without the race settling. Mitt Romney will be the nominee unless Perry, Gingrich, or Cain seriously step up their game.

  • gator_hoo

    He was the only candidate during the whole debate cycle to ruffle Romney, but “he’s a horrible debater.”

  • gator_hoo

    And we will never know because McCain didn’t even fight.

  • Massachusetts_Transplant

    . . . of where the race actually is. About time

    I actually think it probably best that Perry skip the foreign policy debate. As inarticulate as he has been on domestic issues, I am guessing that his knowledge on foreign policy is even worse – and his answers will either be slogans (you are either with us or with the terrorists) or they’ll be some embarassing gaffe where he confuses Pakistan and Peru or India and Ireland. Plus there are no easy ways to attack Romney in this forum, as this will likely be more a gang up on Obama’s weakness in the face of China, Russia, and Iran and his failure to stand by allies like Poland, Israel, and India.

    Therefore – in all likelihood, Romney and Gingrich will easily come off as the two most knowledgable and informed guys here. Of course, unless he cracks a few bad jokes – Huntsman should also do well based on his China experience. I just don’t see how this debate helps Perry at all – better to play it safe.

    I think folks have to start coming around to the fact that Romney is likely to be the nominee and that the goal at the end of the day is to beat Obama. Therefore – if you are concerned about Romney, then re-double your efforts to

    1) re-elect the Republican Congress
    2) elect a Republican Senate (with more than 1 vote to spare)
    3) elect Republicans in down ballot races as well as in states like North Carolina, West Virginia, Montana, Washington etc.

    The first two are obvious – because you will want Romney to sign legislation put forth by a GOP Congress. Even if we win the Senate and the House, we can’t do anything as long as Obama is standing in the way. Where pressure will be needed is on judicial appointments – much like when we all threw a fit when W. nominated Harriet Miers.

    And for #3 – our lack of depth and choices in this presidential field was brought on precisely because we had a weak bench from our failures in 2002 (not electing Governors in PA, IL, MI, OH, WI, AZ, TN, KS, OK, and on and on) and because of our wipeout in 2006. Contrast that to our bench for 2016 and beyond and thanks to Rubio, Sandoval, Martinez, Haley, Snyder, Walker, Kasich, Christie, Jindal, McDonnell etc. – we have some future presidential and or senate contenders there and a much stronger bench than we did before 2009/2010.

  • cajungirl2012

    It was Mitt saying:

    “I can’t have illegals. I’m running for office!”

    The whole fight was worth Romney’s slip of the tongue.

    Whatever happens, Perry will be a beloved, successful governor. Mitt will always be an also-ran who believes in nothing but his own ambition.

  • cajungirl2012

    It was Mitt saying:

    “I can’t have illegals. I’m running for office!”

    The whole fight was worth Romney’s slip of the tongue.

    Whatever happens, Perry will be a beloved, successful governor. Mitt will always be an also-ran who believes in nothing but his own ambition.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …and doesn’t befit the reality of a horserace…particularly noting the fact that Rick has justification to attack Mitt on his having hired Illegals [twice]….

    These are the aggregated data justifying the attack on Mitt’s having hired the illegal/undocumented alien:

    First, the key-quote from Mitt: ?I don?t think I?ve hired an Illegal in my life.? This is untrue, obviously.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/us/politics/western-republican-leadership-conference-wrlc-cnn-debate-at-the-venetian-resort-hotel-casino.html?pagewanted=9

    Second, the subsequent-claim from Mitt: ??[W]hen that was pointed out to us, we let them go.? This is only true a year afterwards, not initially.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/us/politics/western-republican-leadership-conference-wrlc-cnn-debate-at-the-venetian-resort-hotel-casino.html?pagewanted=9

    Third, the provoked-admission from Mitt: ?So we went to the company and we said, look, you can?t have any illegals working on our property. That?s ? I?m running for office, for Pete?s sake, I can?t have illegals.? This reflects political ambition, rather than recognition of right/wrong.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/us/politics/western-republican-leadership-conference-wrlc-cnn-debate-at-the-venetian-resort-hotel-casino.html?pagewanted=10

    Fourth, the final-claim from Mitt: ?It turns out that once again they hired someone who had falsified their documents, had ? documents, and therefore we fired them.? This recapitulates quote-#2 [supra] but, again, doesn?t address the initial reaction.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/us/politics/western-republican-leadership-conference-wrlc-cnn-debate-at-the-venetian-resort-hotel-casino.html?pagewanted=10

  • cajungirl2012

    for the double post!

  • avagreen

    Not a good show for either, but if you can excuse one, you must excuse the other.

  • craigbardo

    The only contest is for the anti-Romney consolidation.

    I think the process is working. Bachmann, Santorum, Newt and even Paul have been important to this vetting. Though it looks doubtful at this point, one of them may emerge.

    The leading contenders for the consolidation are Cain who is leading and Perry who by virtue of both his establishment bona fides and money is getting a mulligan. I’m ok with Cain’s missteps and Perry’s (to a lesser extent) provided that they can be sharpened by Santorum, Bachmann and Newt.

    I favor Cain in the consolidation contest because what Cain has, he can acquire – foreign policy primer, an icky political consultant (provided he doesn’t allow himself to be over-handled like Palin was by McCain’s goons) infrastructure and money. I don’t know if Perry can get what Cain has – the ability to connect.

    If Perry loses to Cain, Romney will draw some of that support because a lot of it is establishment. If Cain loses to Perry, there won’t be much leakage. However, either Cain or Perry can beat Romney if he doesn’t route them in the early primary states, particularly South Carolina and Florida.

    If I were Cain or Perry (who’s got to get out of the running for president of Texas mode too) after shoring up weaknesses, I’d be camping out at Palin and DeMint’s doorstep and would refuse to leave. Those endorsements will put either over the top in the anti-Romney consolidation contest, which means the winner will be the next President of the United States.

  • streiff

    Those are really the choices. Gingrich simply can’t win. He’s been made radioactive with a wide swath of the electorate and he is really, really, really uninspiring working a room (I say this from personal experience.) Cain is the dog that has nearly caught the car. My fear with Cain is that he will get beaten so badly that it will hurt us down ticket.

    I have no doubt that either Perry or Romney can beat Obama though it won’t be easy for either.

  • avagreen

    I don?t know if Perry can get what Cain has ? the ability to connect.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …for your powers of suasion won’t allow rejection of core-principles.

    Essentially, you mangle “inevitability” by “killing Perry with faint praise.”

    “Fed Up!” is replete with Foreign Policy references [both direct and indirect, when discussing National Security]. He also made the unprecedented move @ the UN when staking a claim against Palestinian Statehood.

    Recall the unprecedented gumption that yielded?a month ago?the press-conference in NYC regarding the UN vote on ?Palestinian Statehood? that has been captured [compiled after much Internet-searching]. Experience the uniqueness of his standing astride Congressman Turner [who hired Rush, decades ago] and Deputy Knesset Speaker Danon [of the wing of the Likud that assuredly cannot stomach the mega-release of terrorists]. Then project the type of forthrightness that he will project when dealing with America?s enemies; his history of shooting a coyote that threatened his dog should serve as ample warning to political/military adversaries of the risk entailed when confronting his forthrightness.

    Perry distills the issue
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q0Sqlj_I9o

    turner
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q0Sqlj_I9o

    danon
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxgWSPMLu44&feature=related

    perry answers questions
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgsumGJswWk&feature=related

  • clintonformccain

    segment on FOX last night of Charles Krauhhammer pressing Ron Paul on his conspiracy theory that “they” will use a border fence to keep us in.

    By the time Ron Paul finished digging his hole, I really thought the men in white coats were going to walk into the studio to take him away. That man is certifiably insane.

  • cajungirl2012

    is Perry. No one else will go after him. He shook him up at the last debate – just keep poking him!

    As a matter of principle, I cannot work to elect someone I do not respect. I could never cast a vote for Mitt Romney. He’s just like Obama – it’s all about me!

    My prayers and my support remain with Governor Perry.

  • tngal

    all the “anybody but Romney” crowd is going to start wearing Ron Paul buttons to keep Mitt flat?? Boy, this could be fun to watch.

  • craigbardo

    Like the economy since Obama took office?

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …is that you have completely ignored the TEA ["taxed enough already"] Party Movement; recall how his one appearance @ a TPM-event was picketed!

    I will modify – and reverse – the thrust of the plea to ignore principles, thusly:

    Therefore ? if you are concerned about Romney, then re-double your efforts to

    1) invite him to discuss both the statist underpinnings and the skyrocketing costs of RomneyCare.
    2) invite him to rectify a pattern of support for legislation based upon Global Warming [including his having pandered for Iowa-Ethanol voters].
    3) invite him to rationalize support for an unbridled TARP [Wall St. v. Main St.].

  • bzip

    Yep, that is my opinion to.

    I am sure that Perry and Romney can beat Obama with a lot of fight.
    I am of the same opinion of you in regards to Cain. In the end Cain will lose so bad that it is going to hurt the conservative base in the end.

    I guess I am bias but do hope others see with someone else agree with me.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …by touching Rick [remember how Rick Lazio lost to Hillary a decade ago when he violated her personal-space?], but he also was forced into that killer-quote ["I can't be perceived as hiring Illegals when I'm running for office" paraphrased]. {Details are provided elsewhere.}

    This Romney-Perry Exchange was the main-event. Romney?s two hit-ads targeting Perry presaged his fears, and Perry?s intro targeting Romney presaged his attack; obviously, claiming he was the ?authentic? rather than ?convenient? conservative was thematically corroborated, and the ?emperor? was revealed as lacking in ?clothing.?

    That final elitist quote ?You really have to let both sides talk if you want to be POTUS? cries for an attitudinal readjustment that the upcoming ad-war will convey to the ? of the Conservatives who have constituted Romney?s glass-ceiling in polling.

  • http://www.planettron.com NickDeringer

    Conservatives hate him. He’s a slick politician who dissed the Tea Party. Where is his support coming from?? How can he be leading in the first 4 primaries states??

    Do people know the difference between progressive-lite and a true conservative anymore??

  • Death_of_the_Donkey

    While the flat tax sounds good, it is going to play right into Obama’s class warfare campaign (huge tax cuts for the rich, keeps everyone else at same tax level in current expensive system). Also, it is going to increase deficits (even with the Ryan budget in place). It may make for some good primary soundbites and give Perry a needed bump, but in the general his tax plan (like Cain’s) kill him.

  • http://www.tooncesthecat.wordpress.com tooncesthecat

    But only after the voting in Iowa and New Hampshire. At that point Romney, Ron Paul, and one other candidate will be left standing. I say that because no one is going to get out until after Iowa. It is, therefore, anyone’s guess as to who will emerge as the anti-Romney candidate. Cain, Gingrich, Perry, and even Santorum all have a fairly equal shot at winning the title. Fortunately, however, the primary calendar provides three weeks of breathing room after Florida for the eventual anti-Romney to reload. My guess is that most conservatives will rally to whomever is left standing after New Hampshire, and actively combine to bring down Romney.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …it was doubly-necessary to Rick to puncture Mitt; although spattered transiently with blue-blood, Rick demonstrated gumption while revealing [for the first time, to a national audience] the prickly-side of Mitt’s smooth demeanor.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    We’ll take our chances with conservative policies that work and with the usual Dem attacks.

  • http://www.tooncesthecat.wordpress.com tooncesthecat

    because anyone who can’t beat Ron Paul is not a credible candidate. Paul is likely to finish 3rd or 4th in both Iowa and New Hampshire, thus knocking out a significant portion of the field. Honestly, how could anyone stay in the race if they finish behind Ron Paul?

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …after Rick releases the rest of his budgetary plan.

    He will show that cutting taxes will spur growth, and cutting spending will preclude a burgeoning deficit.

    He will be able to demonstrate to the electorate that American Exceptionalism can be tethered to a decreasing D.C.-profile…in the $-realm that The Forgotten Taxpayer knows best!

    THE ONLY PROBLEM is that the recipients of Big Government will be tempted to maintain a [pseudo] status-quo, fearing further cut-backs. THIS is where the education will be necessary, starting with reminding them how very quickly their Obama-Money was dissipated, during 2009. Beyond that, if the battle will be fought in the ‘burbs, growing dismay with all-things-Obama has even seeped into that classic repository of fundamental political discourse [my barber's shop]. He has a way of “bleeding” people until they reveal essential truths, and he has noted a great turnaround during 2011.

  • clintonformccain

    any mention of Herman Cain drinking white wine at breakfast. I’m sure the instructions went out to keep the powder dry on that one until it can used to do real damage.

  • jachsso

    I don’t think Rick Perry is pro illegal but I do think Cain is anti-hispanic.I’m hispanic and would never vote for Cain.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …starting with his appearance on FNC with Chris Wallace.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I don’t want to settle for RomneyMcCainDoleBush41. If he skips debates, he self-inflicts a fatal wound and his campaign will be over. Please don’t let the rumors be true.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    Very little of Perry’s support would go to Romney; most would probably gravitate to The Newt. [Recall, for example, that The Newt wrote the intro for "Fed Up!"]

    The endorsements would be huge, and you could add Rush and Mark Levin [plus The Donald],

  • Doc Holliday

    mine as well pray for Larry Echo Hawk; The Assistant Secretary of the Interior for Indian Affairs.

  • acat

    but I’m wondering if Perry’s floating this rumor to get folks, some of whom post here on Red State, who put an excessive amount of weight on debate performance to rethink.

    Mew

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    during the internet-delivered follow-up, they tried to be polite [almost jovial], but the aftertaste lingered.

  • mikeymike143

    Tea Party Fort Lauderdale is proof the tea party movement is alive and well!!! Next week will be the 140th CONSECUTIVE WEEK that our group has held some kind of public demonstration or event.

    And let?s look at our record of picking candidates here at Tea Party Fort Lauderdale.

    When everybody was saying establishment favorite Charlie Crist was a lock for the senate seat, we overwhelmingly backed a then unknown named Marco Rubio. When the liberal media said Ron Klein was unbeatable in District 22, we strongly supported Allen West for the seat. And in our last tea party presidential straw poll in May, our winner in a very close race was Herman Cain with 18.5% of the vote. And this was BEFORE Cain was well known. : )

    Anyway, we just had another presidential straw poll. It was ONLY open to active members of TPFL(Tea Party Fort Lauderdale). We voted for the candidate we thought would make the best president and also the candidate we liked the least. And both categories were landslides with our tea party members. I was in Asia when the last straw poll was taken and didnt get to participate but I sure voted in this one. My choices were Rick Santorum for the candidate who I most wanted to see as president and of course nutjob Ron Paul as the candidate I least liked. Anyway, i will copy and paste the email I got from TPFL with the results below:

    Date: Monday, October 25th, 2011

    To: National & Florida Media Outlets, Tea Parties, Grass-Roots, & Conservative Networks

    Herman Cain Wins Tea Party Straw Poll; Ron Paul Not So Lucky

    Tea Party Fort Lauderdale, America?s longest running tea party, just completed a nine-day straw poll for the 2012 Presidential race.

    Herman Cain has been on the rise nationally ever since winning the Presidency 5 Poll in Orlando in late September. Businessman Cain received 53% of the first-place votes in our poll, followed by Newt Gingrich finishing a distant second with 13.5% of the first-place share. Cain also won our straw poll in May taking 18.5% of the pie.

    Ron Paul was unfortunate, finishing at the top of the list of ?who you would least like to receive the Republican nomination to run against Barack Obama,? with Jon Huntsman next down the ladder.

    1st Place:

    Herman Cain 53%

    Newt Gingrich 13.5%

    Mitt Romney 9.5%

    Michele Bachmann 6.5%

    Rick Perry 6.5%

    Rick Santorum 5%

    Less Than 5%:

    Ron Paul

    Jon Huntsman

    *Jason Chaffetz

    *Sarah Palin

    *Donald Trump

    *Allen West

    Undecided

    *Write-in Votes

    Tea Party Fort Lauderdale Presidential Straw Poll

    The question was asked;

    Who would you least like to receive the Republican nomination to run against Barack Obama?

    1st Place

    Ron Paul 38%

    Jon Huntsman 16%

    Mitt Romney 13.5%

    Rick Perry 12.5%

    Undecided 9.5%

    331 people participated in this straw poll that ran from 10/13 ? 10/21

    Tea Party Fort Lauderdale, America?s Longest Running Tea Party www.TeaPartyFortLauderdale.com

    http://www.redstate.com/mikeymike143/2011/10/25/tea-party-fort-lauderdales-presidential-straw-poll-results/

  • czs

    …and this is coming from someone who gave Cain $100 yesterday.

    It seems like no matter what camp your in, most of the political realists here see the campaign the same way. I think there’s a huge upside to Cain if he can grow into the role, but I think most Cain supporters know he has to grow into it fast or see his support drift to someone more plausible.

    I also wouldn’t write off Gingrich. I am sure many people in ’67 would have said Nixon was too radioactive with the electorate. If the #OWS people show up in Charlotte, this could be ’68 redux!

  • runner12

    are correct. My hope is that more people will get behind Perry.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    “I am (still) a Perry supporter. I grew up near Paint Creek and I?ve voted for him in every race he?s been in, but he must do better asap or I?m switching over to Gingrich.”

    http://www.redstate.com/neil_stevens/2011/10/27/perry-had-better-get-fed-up-fast-this-is-herman-cain-time/#comment-16545

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I am a fan of Perry’s positions on policy and his good work in Texas and want him in the mix to be the not-Mitt. I think skipping debates would be fatal to his chances.

  • streiff

    is that this is an issue

  • sethellis

    I haven’t seen much discussion in the political sphere about how the rising stock market plays into this. The dominant narrative has been a dismal market on the verge of a double dip coupled with high long term unemployment. However, today the market is saying that scenario is unlikely.

    This should give some in the party pause. It challenges the most basic assumptions we have made about the political climate. We must be careful to not back ourselves into a corner with the nominating process.

    I can see one scenario where the main issue becomes the deficit and the endless deadlock in congress. I think this situation benefits a moderate like Romney. What if the public mandate gets overturned? This would be deadly to Romney. Corporate corruption could also become a dominant issue. Both Romney and Perry would get slaughtered in that battle.

    There are situations that can turn the climate for or against anyone in the field. The way we are attacking everyone including Perry, Romney, and Cain could be a costly mistake. I am particularly conserved when the attacks become personal in nature like many of the his this week.

  • clintonformccain

    But I darn sure know that the media is not going to protect a Republican nominee who is known to tip a few. Ted Kennedy. Chris Dodd? Yeah. Those stories won’t get written, but a Republican?

  • Doc Holliday

    and it would show he is not capable o handling the presidency. I still think Cain or Gingrich would be much more effective taking on THE ONE. Cain needs to tighten up a bit though, he is starting to get sloppy.

    I do want Perry in the race, I do want him to do well, I want them all to do well and I want our choice to be a difficult one.

  • Scope

    The questioning of Paul started out slowly, but the questions kept building up until Paul was even wringing his hands. I looked at Krauthammer’s face while Paul was speaking, and you could almost see the wheels turning in Krauthammers brain, just waiting for the attack. When he asked Paul if America was a prison, I thought Paul would need a ventilator. He stuttered and didn’t know what to say. He knew he was caught as an idiot and a kook, and he had no way out of it.

    Just the looks on the faces of the inquisitors was classic. They were laughing at him without laughing out loud. When the clip was played where he was shouting his speech about the fence keeping Americans in, when they came back to him he looked totally embarrassed, and I didn’t think you could embarrass the old kook.

  • Scope

    he has had Paul on so many times, much more so than any others. I suspect that all that face time on Fox has also contributed to his tiny bump in the polls. Yet, he had a media blackout moneybomb, and raked in a few million more, despite the fact he is not being ignored by the media.

  • streiff

    but white wine for breakfast is questionable in terms of behavior and taste. If you’re going to drink in the morning go with a Bloody Mary or Mimosa.

  • Vaughn Harold

    experience (I’ve heard the whole Reagan thing), but I have never seen anyone perform as badly in a debate as Perry. It’s obvious he was not even prepared. It brings into question many things about him.

    Anybody can have people put together great videos and have scripted interviews. Live debates expose things about the candidates real knowledge of what they are proposing and how they think.

    As has been stated, Perry has imploded because of the debates.

  • Scope

    of some polls, like the latest Fox poll, it shows much more support from the so-called Tea Party people for Romney than I will ever believe. That is yet another reason why I have little faith in almost any of the polls.

  • clintonformccain

    by changing the channel whenever Fox interviews one of the nobody candidates: Bachmann, Huntsman, Santorum, etc. I just about changed the channel last night, but I knew that Krauthammer getting an opportunity to question Ron Paul would be priceless. Krauthmanner has such dripping disdain for imbeciles and crazy people.

    But, actually, it was kind of sad. Ron Paul has such obvious mental problems that it was hard to watch him talk about what “they” would do.

  • Scope

    There is only one choice for the hispanic voters. Rick Perry.

  • Doc Holliday

    his campaign manager smokes cigarettes. I think you convinced me, I will now write off Herman Cain.

    Hmm, what can we celebrate my conversion with? I have some English Cider, some Sam Adams, and good ol’ Cope; that should hold me till cocktail hour :)

  • bzip

    Rick Santorum on Cain abortion flap

    http://youtu.be/GM9IKOWI-vc

  • clintonformccain

    And Krauthammer nailed him:

    “In 2011, capital moves instantly around the globe by computer entry. Are you really saying that the fence would be used to stop people carrying bags of money across the border?”

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    In this instance, you should take into account the total database. Therefore, you cannot conclude Perry has “imploded” when you fail to integrate his turnaround during the CNN event last week.

  • texabama

    Can’t for the life of me see why anyone would want a 90′s retread. People have forgotten all the ethics complaints (most not warranted, but some had teeth) including the bounced checks. Money seems to be an ongoing issue for Newt and I personally don’t want our executive in chief to be that bad with our nation’s checkbook. I was hoping to find someone who could solve that problem.

  • clintonformccain

    Plus, consider the questions. If you asked whether or not I support the Tea Party principles (keeping in mind I’m a registered Independent), I would say yes. But, I am by no means what the media considers a stereotypical “Tea Partier”. IMO, the whole construct of a “tea party voter” is false premise to begin with.

  • Doc Holliday

    over wine? that is not your style.

  • acat

    At this point I prefer Perry, which I think is pretty obvious.

    I also don’t think that you put too much emphasis on debates. I was and will continue to avoid naming names.

    I agree skipping any debates would be a problem, but .. my point was that by putting the word out that he’s thinking about it, Perry will spur some to rethink the value of the dog shows so far.

    I trust you see the difference between words and action, counselor.

    Mew

  • tommyfrisco

    white people aren’t the only ones capable of being racist. That’s just thing we don’t know about Herman Cain.

  • clintonformccain

    I don’t know if he’s an alcoholic. That’s the problem with candidates who have never been vetted.

    All things being equal, I would tend not to vote for a President of the United States who starts drinking before noon.

  • acat

    citrus is contra-indicated for people on some heart medications and some folk just don’t like tomatoes.

    Mew

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    Even when given the opportunity for self-rehab, Cain can’t quite stick to “I’m Pro-Life and feel that all life begins @ conception.” Indeed, his endorsement of “illegal abortions” and newfound rejection of all abortions [pick a clarification] serve only to complicate matters. This 3-minute video could be expanded by a montage of his follow-up quotes, for this would serve to enhance the confusion experienced by the typical viewer.

  • daniel22

    look at what the anybody but Bush election got us. For Pete’s sake we either stand up for who and what we believe or we fall that is it in a nutshell. Playing political chess has really fouled up this country by re-electing politicians with agendas instead of beliefs. Look at what happened in Nevada. The Democrats ran the Republican elections in both primary and general. they engineered the primary for the candidate who they could beat. They are doing the same this presidential primary season. Keep republicans home by letting Romney win, encourage independents to vote Obama by letting Perry win. Ensure a liberal versus Tea Party fight let Cain win. Gingrich would tear Obama a new one in any debate. Yes, I know he has baggage who doesn’t?

  • texabama

    and he didn’t want others to focus on this health issue. Having just had back surgery in June and then jumping into a political campaign was dicey and we see that he suffered for it.

  • avagreen

    I don’t want an alcoholic for President. We had one addict (JFK) for President. Actually, I think FDR was also suspect because of all his pain. Don’t want another. He’s already flippant enough w/o drinking in the a.m.

    This is from a master’s level (LCSW) chemical dependency counselor of 20+ years.

    Not a good sign! Don’t care how much ETOH is eulogized (which it is today along with other vices). It’s not something for a Prez to be doing, and certainly not something to be kept under covers. Just makes it worse! It’s called “enabling”.

    We just had an entertainer die of this who was enabled by everyone around him, who started out “just wanting to get some sleep”.

    And, I’ve had wonderful, wonderful clients die “just wanting for my back to stop hurting”, etc. I could just cry.
    Double addictions abound (if you’re addicted to one downer, you’re addicted to them all). Try to get pain relief at the dentist’s office if your tolerance to any downer is high, which includes ETOH. Some people hate dentists because “there isn’t enough pain killer to kill the pain!)……..well, guess why.

    This is not a simple problem. I know to (word deleted) to take this as just some cute aberrant behavior on the part of a candidate.
    /rant off/

    Another reason for me not to vote for this guy.

  • bzip

    I think the point should be made that this ad depicts a small percent of the problems of Cain and the ease of attacking him

    I am no Rick Santorum fan but you should be looking at this from the point of view of how easy Cain can be attack and using Cain’s own words to attack him with.

    As far as I nobody is really attacking Cain that hard (except for this).

  • rightwingmom52

    runner’s comment goes further up – not to the wine comment.

    As for me, I’m not a drinker, but I don’t see how this is an issue unless there’s a lot more to the story. No doubt if there’s something there, we’ll be sure to hear about it.

  • retire05

    Bachmann: may place in Iowa, but Santorum is chomping at her heels. In the end, she will not take Iowa. Bachmann is not raising money and her [current] campaign manager recently said that Iowa is a must for her to be able to stay.

    Cain: generating a lot of excitment now, but when people can’t explain to you what there is in his record that lets them know how he will govern, that excitement is not transferred to others. His gaffes, which are numerous, have either been played down or totally ignored (he is black, you know, and poltical correctness doesn’t end at the news room). And while Cain creates excitement, he is not pulling in the $$ for the long haul. He recently said on a Houston radio show he has pulled in $2 million in October. Out of that, even though he is not really campaigning being on a book tour, he has spent $1 million of that money. Compare Cain’s $2 million in 25 days (since he has seen a bump the first of October) to Perry’s $17 million in 49 days.

    Cain’s campaign is in disarray with the lackies not happy about how they are treated. He is going to Alabama when he should be in Iowa, and Iowans are not unaware of that. His ads are like eye catching ads for a used car lot. Not classy, not informative, not good.

    Gingrich: the adult in the crowd, or so he thinks. Tons of experience, a decade ago. And tons of baggage, not the least being the ethics charges which will certainly come up, if Romney sees Gingrich with a good bump in the polls.

    Huntsman: Who?

    Paul: his supporters, while energetic, are like petulant children. He pulls in the college crowd, but if they hold true to the last GOP primary, they will sit it out if Paul has little chance of winning. And they will boycott the general election out of spite. Paul supporters do not flip for another candidate. As I said; petulant children.

    Perry: needs to get his sea legs underneath him. But don’t count him out. Charlie Cook, who is brilliant at calling elections, said last week this will be a Perry/Romney shoot out. And don’t discount the affects of boots on the ground retail politicing. I don’t think Perry will avoid any of the debates (a rumor being floated by spinners who had to spin what was said to reach that conclusion) but Perry understands that Newt is right; so far the debates have been designed to be nothing but a cage match between candidates. As to discipline: if Perry has one talent, it is being disciplined while not appearing that way. That preception is what made his past opponents let down their guard, knowing they were more disciplined than Perry and it would cause him to lose. KBH learned the hard way.

    Romney: he understands his only real opponent is Perry. That is why he dusted off his old website, bought via a proxy in 2007 to attack McCain but never implemented, to attack ONLY Perry. It is also why Romney is running from his tenure as governor, playing on his business acumen. Romney was solidly in the lead in 2007 while McCain was draggins his luggage through airports and had lost almost his entire campaign staff. But Romney seems to be running a repeat of his 2007-08 campaign, attacking opponents over the same issues. His problem is going to be trying to stay one step ahead of Perry. Romney’s 59 point plan was waaaaay too long, and could not be explained in simple terms. That will hurt him. That, and the trust factor.

    The polls, as I have shown, at this point are basically useless. Huckabee flipped Iowa, McCain flipped Florida. And Perry has seemingly changed tactics, hiring experienced “national” campaigners, including someone who was high up in Romney’s last campaign. The bump that Romney was looking for with the Christie endorsement didn’t come.

    Undecideds and independents are still not being polled. They are not a small bloc. But they do take a good, hard look at the candidates and really don’t get pumped up about any of them until after Christmas.

  • Vaughn Harold

    look under the Cain heading.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …and can summarize 219 comments [only a handful from me] without committing a Kowalski…but while trying to achieve a 55555 [explained therein by Gekster]:

    “If you like or agree with a comment, you give it a rate of 5.

    “kowalski is a reply to yourself. If you have an afterthought to one of your own comments, and would like to add to it, you give it a kowalski. It is named after a RS poster who would and still does reply to himself over and over again. I think I counted ten times, but I don?t know thw actual record of replying to himself is.”

    *

    There is generalized agreement with the need for Rick to attend all debates.

    There is controversy as to what’s happening @ FNC, with the leading conspiracy being the divergence of attention by Murdoch over Ailes; unexplained is why Ailes would dislike Perry, however.

    There is recognition that Mitt must be monitored, but there is silent-resignation that leverage would predictably dissipate [such as his need to clarify support for Kasich] following 1/20/2012. [The opposition to SCOTUS-nominee Myers was the result of extreme-dismay, and such efforts cannot be mounted regularly.]

    ____

    It would be wise to listen once-again to the calm presentation of the woman who SHOULD become the next FLOTUS. Unlike reports in the MSM/LSM, she was not ?tearful? when lamenting the attacks on Rick; rather, she welled-up when recalling how she remembers the influence of her grandfather.

    http://blog.chron.com/rickperry/2011/10/anita-perry-says-she-and-rick-have-been-brutalized-by-fellow-republicans-press-because-of-their-faith/

  • streiff

    that the atmospherics of a presidential candidate drinking wine in the morning aren’t good. I am fairly confident that when it becomes in anyone’s interests to inquire further that we will find this seems like exactly what it is.

  • cwfoster

    Mikeymike, I took the liberty to copy and paste this to the Maryland for cain website, to help keep our people motivated! (not that we aren’t LOL) and I apologize if I overstepped. Hope you don’t mind, i got excited and posted before I thought to ask permission.

  • Doc Holliday

    the holier than thou types are starting to get on my nerves. BTW, tell me why a glass of win before evening is a sign of weak character? What about Europeans who drink wine with most meals but have very low rates of alcoholism.

    I have an idea, listen to the man’s commercials, watch him in the debates, and stay out of his medicine and liqour cabinets.

    I am pretty much disgusted by the crazy Cain attacks today. But then again, that they are off the wall shows these people have nothing for real to say. Bad news Elmer Fudd, I mean Rick Perry.

  • Doc Holliday

    do you have a link to something? This is the first I have heard about Cain and wine. If he is a a connoisseur I might have to like him more. I know pizza and wine go great together.

  • runner12

    regarding Perry/Romney and that they are the most likely to beat Obama. I have no comment on the wine thing. Cain has had a lot of health problems, so for all I know it is for health reasons.

    I am not going to make any rash judgments at this time, the truth will come out eventually. Until then, it is not an issue for me.

  • Doc Holliday

    but really it was not a mistake, I knew you would not go along with such a cheap shot even though you support someone else.

    and thanks for the heads up RWM, you were quite correct. :)

  • streiff

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etoh

  • Scope

    I hope that makes you happy Dr. S. It is very interesting that you talk about the Murdock/Ailes thing as I posted a comment about that here earlier this morning. I have never heard anyone else talk about that angle. I have just been trying to think of why Fox has been so anti-Perry, and, Fox has most definitely changed with their nicer and kinder guests talking up Obama and the liberals. I connected the Murdoch legal problems with the Ailes Fox changes as they both seemed to have happened simultaneously. What Ailes has against Perry, who knows, probably nothing. But it would be in Fox’s best interest to help get the moderate to run against Obama, and who would have no valid arguments against him.

  • Marcus_Traianus

    is that Hillary Clinton polls above all GOP candidates.

    If that is not a wake up call, well I am not sure what is.

    OR how about that every Democrat now seems to be calling it The Republican Congress. Really? A do nothing golfer in chief that used a historic Democrat majority in Congress to do zero for jobs, raise the debt to historically destructive levels and overall divide neighbor against neighbor. Oh and let’s not forget the President and Senate, which is blocking just about everything is occupied by Democrats.

    The establishment GOP response? Crickets.

  • Doc Holliday

    .

  • Scope

    n/t

  • streiff

    right now. I’m sure ABC/NBC/CBS/CNN/Politico will have something substantive if Cain is still standing in late January.

    Maybe we just come from different areas of the country, Doc. Where I was raised, drinking in the morning isn’t what a “connoisseur” did.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    Bachmann: Were she ever to re-emerge after Iowa, she would fail once her Gardisil-performance were to be recalled.

    Cain: Were he ever to maintain traction, he would fail once self-contradictions [and faulty "conservatism"] were to be emphasized [as Santorum is now advertising, focused on abortion].

    Gingrich: His “experience” is actually TWO decades remote, and any narrative regarding RomneyCare would encompass recognition of his core-endorsement thereof [even if it is lamely claimed (a)--he was critiquing HillaryCare, and/or (b)--he was channeling the Heritage Foundation].

    Huntsman/Paul/Santorum: Irrelevancies.

    Perry: His boots-on-the-ground [whether it be Texas Rangers patrolling the Border or supporters trolling Iowa for clear-thinking caucus-voters] will indeed affect the evolution of this race; the effect thereof will extend far beyond Florida,, notwithstanding what transpired @ Ft. Lauderdale.

    Romney: HERE, I cannot agree [although I'd really want to do so]. Polling matters, and Romney keeps getting lumps on his scalp from the glass-ceiling.

    THEREFORE:

    Rick must not permit ANY sound-bites to be subject to being misconstrued during his chat with Chris Wallace. Granted, the “Morning Joe” crowd on MSNBC will snidely label him “stupid every-hour-on-the-hour [for ~15 minutes, starting @ 6 a.m.]. But the pivot-point must be his ability to demonstrate he would be a Constitution-Conservative in all realms.

    Rick should ANTICIPATE that ALL of the opposition-research will be poured into each/every query, replete with video sound-bites. He must answer the gravamen of each question crisply, and then segue within 10 seconds to a concept derived from “Fed Up!” He must then STOP, so that Chris need not appear to be interrupting him. He must flash his refreshingly-pure grin, but must minimize any aw-shucks-I’m-a-Texan euphemisms. BUT he must NOT deny his heritage or his background [particularly military] and must enjoy the occasional anecdote that emphasizes how his ethical/family values were shaped in the world of American Exceptionalism that continues to generate jobs/jobs/jobs. He slayed KBH, and he can portray his unique positives with authority!

  • runner12

    NT

  • avagreen

    Europeans are taught to drink in moderation from childhood as part of their culture. It’s considered in bad taste to get drunk, and will be looked down on by others if you doe.
    That’s the difference between their culture and ours.

    And, they don’t drink wine with breakfast. They drink coffee usually.
    They drink wine with lunch, dinner, and afterwards as ap?ritifs or digestif to help with digestion. Not to get hog-wallering drunk like many Americans do, and brag about.

  • westcoastpatriette

    Your analytical skills enable you to think up things I would never even imagine. Are you part engineer? Or just a super thorough curious kitty?

    I am just teasing, okay?

  • septembergurl

    Polls are interesting, the national polls are still to a great extent measuring name recognition, etc, while the state polls are getting interesting and starting to sharpen the differences from state to state.

    I look seriously at two indicators: Intrade President 2012 and Rasmussen’s head-to-head against Obama.

    Interestingly enough, these register much the same as they did in August. Intrade shows the same two-man race(Obama and Romney) with no one else even in double digits. On Ras the same four – Romney, Huntsman, Cain and Perry — are in single digits vs Obama, and by almost the same amounts. This week Romney leads Obama by 2 (they have traded the lead but it remains a few points — effectively a tie), while Obama leads Herb by 6, Huntsman by 7 and Perry by 8. Everyone else trails O by double digits.

    In other words, the race is more static than it appears, or than the media would like you to think. Debates, tax plans, gaffes, money and endorsements, straw polls, mean less than the fundamentals.

    So, we have the same 4 top tier candidates as earlier in the year. 3 governors and a CEO. Romney does best, but not overwhelmingly so.

    Cain — there is a fundamental unseriousness about his campaign in its messaging, fundraising, staffing, organizations etc that people seem to find authentic or refreshingly unprofessional or something. This is ironic since Cain has one of the most carefully crafted images of any politician in the field. He’s a very good marketer. Sooner or later the lack of substance will catch up with him, as it seems to be doing.

    Perry — His campaign seems to think that the way to turn his decline around is to limit his unscripted appearances — debates, etc, in favor of paid media, big speeches, rolling out endorsements, etc. That strikes me as a bad strategy for Perry who really needs to rekindle the passion and trust he had.

    Romney — He seems to think his strategy is working. go after Perry, be nice to the other Not Romneys, hope he can wrap it up in a few weeks. That would be a good strategy in a normal election year.

    Huntsman — Let’s say I’m looking forward to the foreign policy debate. Although I understand that Herb’s crack foreign policy brains trust is feeding him one-pagers on all the issues, so look out Santorum and Paul!

  • Common_Cents

    Or are people so dumb they don’t know what congress means?

    It’s obviously a lame attempt of obama to swipe at house republicans by blaming congress but I would think some Dems would speak up and for sure the freakin GOP.

    The stupid party continues.

  • notpropagandized

    Quite a tortuous path to Newt. Amazing you can divine all those plots and arrive at such an obvious conclusion.
    Out of the bunch, my guess is that RonPaul is the only one that might lose to O. He’s become the American conscience, however.
    My ranking at this nanosecond in time:
    Cain Perry Gingrich Bachmann Huntsman Santorum Romney Other

  • acat

    Curious, with a good recall of obscure facts, and a voracious appetite for the written word. I suspect I’d make a bad engineer, I’m not very good at math.

    Mew

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    http://www.redstate.com/neil_stevens/2011/10/27/perry-had-better-get-fed-up-fast-this-is-herman-cain-time/#comment-16553

    It is replete with wise commentary, with only minimal repetition and “noise.”

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …is dashed when viewing the following contemporaneous CNN Video that documents unambiguous hypocrisy:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLVL_8wKjdY

    Listen @ the 2:00 mark, when he endorses amnesty.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    which won’t resonate well among Main St. voters.

  • tommyfrisco

    after his embarrassing performances in his first three debates. That would be equivalent to admitting defeat. Maybe he can skip some debates later on, but not now.

    Erick, you are right. Perry must recover quickly. That may be why he has changed his strategy and started accepting interviews on FNC.

    May God help him speak fluently and wisely!

    BTW, anyone that considers the debates to be unimportant are just dead wrong. The people I know, here in Dallas, who have watched the debates are shocked and dismayed at Perry. Considering our limited options, why would we now be considering any other candidate if the debates were not important?

  • westcoastpatriette

    A colleague once used me as a guinea pig to do some psyche testing that measured various behavioral traits on a scale between one and ten. One of things measured was attention to detail–I scored a one.

    To this day, I find myself avoiding detail but I love to give the overall essence of things. Some traits are just innate and cannot be altered that much. Anyway, I enjoy reading your detailed analysis from a cat’s perspective.

  • Common_Cents

    Many of the attacks on Newt will be seen as real petty. Sure they will come up. Is the lefty media gonna attack him for the Pelosi couch moment? hardly. They’ll go personal and that can rally support for him and be detrimental to opponents. Gee, they gonna support Slick Willy affairs and then try to skewer Newt?

    The rest of the voters are looking for new ideas, new plans, a good communicator, an adult(opposed to obummer), and someone who demonstrates confidence to get things done.

    In this day and age of an economy being wrecked by Obama I say most people won’t give a flying flip about baggage if they feel a candidate is the best to turn things around for America.

    On the GOP side, Gingrich is the one candidate that can unite most GOP factions. Most every campaign group looks to Gingrich as viable. That cannot be said for bad blood between perry/romney camps etc…

    Gingrich is being underestimated here and should be given a fair shake and fresh look. Why does his old baggage matter but other candidates don’t to a similar extent? Wasn’t Perry a freakin democrat back when Newt had some baggage?

  • celador2

    Unlike in past presidential primaries where few bothered to view debates and there were fewer of them, this year they are now the sole standard of how the voting public picks a nominee in polls.

    Perry is a conservative of the basic foundation like Bachmann, Paul and Cain perhaps. But his debate stye is only slightly stronger than Bush’s style. This year the rapid fire and inspiring sound bite matter more than ever before. Perry loses out on support by that standard but for the wrong reasons.I

    If he stays he will not shine and glitter as brightly as voters expect in debate winners. If he dodges debates pundits will attack him as lacking something.

    But, Perry alone is not flawed seriously and he alone has organization, money, job experience and a bio that touches all!

    Perry stands the best chance to defeat Obama after Pawlenty dfropped out.

  • renl57

    McCain himself admitted that he was more comfortable with foreign policy than discussing economic policy.

    When the financial markets imploded in September 2008, McCain acted like he didn’t know much about it or what to do. His whole domestic agenda at the debate with Obama consisted of attacking earmarks.

    Romney certainly knows economic matters far better than McCain. Better than Obama too.

    Besides, McCain had all of Bush’s baggage to contend with, including Bush’s unpopularity (as indicated by just about every poll at the time).

    Not since 1876 has a highly unpopular President been succeeded to the White House by someone from his own party. That’s what McCain was up against.

    In 2012, the highly unpopular President won’t be from Romney’s party.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    He’s the best of what’s left. If he’s out, it’s Romney or Perry. Flip a coin at that point, it doesn’t make much difference to me.

    Deja vu 2007…FRED!

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …were you to provide the hyperlink to the data that you are interpreting.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    that desired effect, but I could be wrong. Seems a tenuous expectation to me.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    ?were you to provide the hyperlink to the data that you are interpreting.

  • Aaron Gardner

    See here.

    I’ll add, if he were Cain, or Palin, he could just say this is an unconventional campaign and everyone would just accept that as gospel.

  • Doc Holliday

    it is that I am not willing to trash a guy over any tidbit of gossip simply to further “my guys” cause. In fact I am starting to get a little weary of all of them. The conservatives I want to elect want to reduce the power of the government. It is hard to REALLY get someone to put it all on the line in order to win the prize and then destroy it.

    To put it another way, these guys want it too much. They don’t want Obama out too much, you can’t want that too much. They want their own bodies at Penn Ave too much. I am not naive, but I am becoming jaded. It doesn’t help when unsubstantiated accusations of “wine with breakfast” are swirling around lol.

    This is the time every 4 years when we all seem to NOT put our best foot foward. IF RS was a tv station, this time would certainly be “Summer Rerun” time, I little breaking of new ground but lots of breaking of moral codes.

  • avagreen

    regarding all issues.

  • Doc Holliday

    blame it on the Petit Verdot for Breakfast and the Gewurztraminer for lunch.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    ?but worthy of mini-critique.

    Intrade still has Rick as #2 behind Mitt [https://www.intrade.com/v4/home/].

    Concur regarding Cain, but wonder how anything could rehab Huntsman.

    Your comment about Romney suggests this isn’t a normal year, but you don’t explain the import thereof [in your opinion].

    Perry is being rolled-out on FNC, as per your strong suggestion; hope springs eternal.

  • renl57

    There are going to be debates with Obama in October 2012. Most likely three of them. I’ll guess at least one on domestic policy and one on foreign policy.

    Perry can’t run away from those.

    And he can’t get chopped up by Obama in the debates like McCain did in 2008.

  • streiff

    I think Cain is a horrible candidate for a multitude of reasons. Those flaws will become manifest if we are unfortunate enough to have him as a candidate. This, btw, is not an “electability” argument it is a “fatally flawed candidate” argument. Little things, like his wife not actively supporting his candidacy will become huge if he is the candidate because you have to ask why the person who knows him best won’t campaign for him and the candidate’s wife is a huge asset on the trail.

    In the end I’m not sure I could support Cain with any more enthusiasm than I did McCain in 2008.

  • mbauer

    A balanced budget, with a path to paying off the debt. I’ll take that retread.

  • tommyfrisco

    anyday over Romney. Hopefully, we won’t have to make that choice. Maybe Perry will soon learn how to walk and talk in front of a television camera….traits that he should have developed earlier in his political career.

  • acat

    ..and the quality of the discussion at them has been dropping.

    Not sure if you’d get the meaning but .. the signal-to-noise ratio is dropping badly.

    It’s a little like the proliferation of Hollyweird self-award shows. There were the Oscars (sorry, Academy Awards) as the gold standard, then there were the Golden Globes which were some years a joke and some years taken seriously .. now there’s the MTV awards and on and on.

    Or, being a red-blooded American male, perhaps GC would prefer to contrast the Miss America contest with Miss Universe or Miss Hawaiian Tropic.

    At some point, the also-ran debates, like the also-ran pageants and awards shows detract from and clutter the “serious” ones.

    Keep in mind, G.C., that, like the Ames, IA caucus, the debates are about the payoff – Ames is about fundraising for the Iowa GOP, the payoff for some of these debates are in terms of ratings – so perhaps Perry’s on the right track…

    Mew

  • renl57

    Cain appeals to folks for the same reason that Ross Perot did: They wish they could find someone who wasn’t the usual same politics.

    And that feeling lasts up until the moment that they actually have to think about the guy being Commander-in-Chief. Then they decide not to. In the end, Ross Perot got 19% of the popular vote.

  • Scope

    for skipping some debates was that those watching the debates that have already given their heart to another candidate are unlikely to be swayed to Perry’s side. A Democrat watching from Maryland is unlikely to be swayed to vote for Perry. OTOH, Perry himself can stay in Iowa, cover as much ground as possible. meet and shake hands with as many people as possible, and that would be more likely to result in more Perry votes.

    I also like that he would create a “buzz” with some watching to see if he will be in that debate or not.

  • red_oakster

    He needs to improve in debates and turn things around on the ground in Iowa. End of story.

  • Vaughn Harold

    What’s your thoughts on Perry being his possible VP?

  • renl57

    If Perry does well in the next debate, you’ll see him announce that he’s had a change of heart and has decided to participate in more debates.

    Governor Perry, PLEASE. I don’t care if you have to cram every night and hire twelve debate coaches. Win the next debate.

  • Vaughn Harold

    nt

  • Vaughn Harold

    n/t

  • red_oakster

    Romney’s weakness as a front-runner has left him vulnerable to losing 4 of the first 5 contests (lose Iowa, win NH, lose S Carolina, lose Florida, lose Nevada). If Cain and Perry stay in, they may keep Mitt’s totals down. If Romney does lose those first four races, his claim to inevitability is gone. Then either Cain or Perry will pick up the mantle or we’ll get a brokered convention dominated by conservative delegates. Conservatives should focus on beating Romney first.

  • Common_Cents

    He still smokes doesn’t he? or has during his presidency.

  • Doc Holliday

    can say about it. My concern with Cain is he is acting too much as a loose cannon right now. He needs to spend more time doing the Clinton War Room thing. I want to see Cain without the smile, arguing with and creating with his campaign team. I like what I have seen from him so far, but there needs to be an Act 2.

    As for Perry, I just don’t trust him. I don’t want to take anything away from him, but some make it out like his string on Texas electoral victories is some kind of rare occurrence, and sign he is unusually adept at winning elections. But I know Texas and they would elect a yellow dog over a Dem. Look at GWB, he had no political success before he defeated Ma Richards, he beat her when she had approval ratings pushing te 70s I believe. Why? He had the “R”.

    Look, I know Perry will bring in Western cash by the bucket load. He will get the best advisors, etc. He does have something to offer, but without the votes, it will all crash. One terming Obama is too important for us not to put up the best man. Time will tell.

  • reggie182

    the article I found about it indicated that he was “nursing” a glass of white wine in the morning. He wasn’t “poundin ‘em” or anything.

    It’s not unusual for people to have a Mimosa in the morning. A glass of white wine isn’t much different.

    Big deal.

  • Scope

    what Perry’s foreign policy knowledge or positions are so you just spout that his foreign policy knowledge is non-existent. Have you ever even looked anything up with Perry’s positions and/or speeches? I bet not as you are buried deeply in the Romney camp.

  • Doc Holliday

    nt

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    But I’d be fine with that. I’d also be ok with Perry/Gingrich, but I don’t see Newt accepting VP either.

    My prediction is Romney/Pawlenty. Cain thinks he’s gonna be VP, but his usefulness to Mitt ends when Perry is no longer viable.

  • bdirks

    Hate on Romney all you want, but give it a rest with the electability argument.

    Tell me with a straight face ONE state that Perry, Gingrich, or Cain could carry that Romney would not in the general election. In other words, tell me one state that would pick either Obama or Perry, but not Romney.

  • acat

    I’d say “Cain OR Perry in this as long as possible”.

    I think either could defeat Romney. With both in, I think Romney ends up looking good enough – from the squinty MSM point of view – that he may lock the nom up, just as McLame locked it up with Romney and Huckabee still in back in 2008.

    Mew

  • littletboca

    I believe there’s much more to Ric Perry – time will tell. Can he stand toe to toe with Obama in a debate, not at this time, but with practice and polish he may surprise all of us.

    Like Cain, but he better get his money machine rolling!

  • red_oakster

    Newt is completely unacceptable to the social conservatives who dominate the Iowa caucuses. The only conservatives who can do well in Iowa are Cain, Perry, Santorum and Bachmann. I want Perry, I’d settle for Cain, and I hope both get a ticket out of Iowa, so that we can keep Mitt’s ceiling in place for as long as possible.

  • clintonformccain

    …….like school immunization and punishing Mexican college students. Those are the really important issues facing our great nation in 2011 aren’t they?

  • avgjo

    He’d show him for the 3rd rate intellect he is.

    AND, the same thing Gingrich is always criticized for, his bluntness, is exactly what would let him control the conversation with BHO, the media and whomever else.

    I hate to say it, but Gingrich shows more rhetorical and political (q.v. the shutdown) courage than the vast majority of people calling themselves ‘conservative’ today.

  • clintonformccain

    do not generally start drinking before noon. Especially when they are running for President and sitting in a public space in a major hotel with a reporter.

  • Doc Holliday

    did the guy go to a champagne brunch and the haters just decided to go with it? I know we are debating the propriety of a man drinking a glass of wine, but where does this story come from?

  • red_oakster

    Why? Because McCain then put together an unstoppable avalanche of blue state primaries like California and New York. Romney saw that his money wouldn’t make any difference and he pulled the plug.

    Suppose, McCain had lost Florida by a small plurality to Romney. The race would have continued and McCain would have been badly weakened.

    If Cain and Perry are both drawing meaningful support when we get to Florida next January, Romney could lose again, but this time his inevitability will have been shattered. If it’s a 2 person race early enough, Romney will lock things up. The multi-candidate race is our friend because it allows a conservative to win a primary with 30-odd per cent of the vote.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    I get excited at the thought of Gingrich putting that spoiled Marxist brat in his place.

    And a debate against Biden would be like pure slaughter.

  • Doc Holliday

    most here are focused on fratricide, and using the most absurd weapons imaginable. You know, people here love to talk about how candidates like Newt and MItt have so much baggage. But it seems these same people are trying to throw so much baggage at all our candidates, the left will likely have little room for it when it is there turn to use it.

  • streetwise

    you can broaden your knowledge base on this subject:

    http://www.tonyaspler.com/pub/articleview.asp?id=288&s=5

    “The champagne breakfast is an established gastronomic tradition, although a restaurateur friend of mine believes that champagne by itself is breakfast enough. But, then, he’s a Montrealer and probably subscribes to the sentiments of Alain de Vog??, a former director of Veuve Clicquot. I once asked him when was the best time to drink champagne. His reply: “Before, during and after”

  • Scope

    and according to his campaign spokesperson, he will decide on future debates on a debate by debate basis. I would expect that he would tell Fox, with Chris Wallace and Brett Baier moderating to hit the road, and he would be completely justified in doing so. All he has to do is to remind everyone that Wallace and Baier sat and strategized as to how they would destroy him in the last Fox debate.

  • Common_Cents

    n/t

  • Aaron Gardner

    Here.

    Word on the street is that this isn’t a one off for him.

  • septembergurl

    being another “wave election” like 2008 and 2010. In that case, Romney’s careful approach, running out the clock, etc, could be overtaken by a more passionately supported candidate.

    I think it’s hard to predict where the Tea Party goes. I thought they would go to Perry, but they haven’t.

  • reggie182

    http://powerwall.msnbc.msn.com/politics/why-herman-cain-is-angry-1702589.story

    there are other links to be found on google as well.

    The fact that the man happened to have a glass of white wine in the morning with a fancy hotel breakfast is of no concern to me at all.

  • Doc Holliday

    does he know about saturated fat?!?!, does he realize the sodium content????

  • Doc Holliday

    ..

  • cbartlett

    As soon as I heard he is doing the Chris Wallace thing Sunday, I said this could absolutely make or break him. Chris can really get in an attack mode when he wants to. All of the Fox guys all day long on Monday (and sometimes all week) will play sound bytes from that show. He needs to make sure he talks positively about his positions and doesn’t let Chris force him into Romney-bashing. His strong, conservative positions contrast with Romney’s without actually trashing him – that just makes him look petty. Also – I keep hearing O’Reilly making snide comments about his immigration stance. I don’t know if he is just referring to the in-state tuition deal for immigrant kids or if he thinks Perry is actually supporting amnesty for some reason. Perry needs to be very pro-active in talking about his border enforcement, why and where it is and isn’t appropriate to build a wall, his stance against sanctuary cities and defend the “Texas Dream Act”. I’ve thought about emailing his staff but I have no idea if they really read those sort of things. He needs to realize that there is a huge audience – all ages – that watch Fox News and could be a very strong base of support if he does a good job of getting the word out. The good news is – he usually does much better one-on-one than he does in debates with the huge group. Bad news is – Chris Wallace has the potential to be a real jerk sometimes.

  • gekster

    get a decent meal in New York.
    And truth be told, white wine goes good with sweets, cereals, eggs,
    and most other breakfast foods.
    I know of a few who do have white wine with brealfast, have tried it myself,
    It isn’t bad, but not a habit of mine.

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    conceived my Mark Block and Herman Cain at a champagne brunch and filmed immediately thereafter outside the restaurant while they were having their after-breakfast smokes.

    Thank you.

    ColdWarrior

  • NeoKong

    He said he would rather lose an election than lose a war and Obama said ” Good luck with that John. Come visit me at the White House sometime”.

    McCain was a crappy candidate…but he beat out Romney.
    In my opinion if Romney wasn’t so telegenic he wouldn’t be polling nearly as high as he does.
    Romney is a RINO and he will have a tough time winning over Tea Partiers in the primary when they have the choices of Cain, Perry or Bachmann.

  • reggie182

    Honestly I liked the smoking man commercial. Smokers are people too. People shouldn’t be demonized because they make health choices that don’t meet everyone’s approval.

  • avagreen

    And, it’s not from people who are pro-Cain, either.

    Is it because a pro-Perry made the statement(s)? [Is there anything that a pro-Perry person can say that is "correct"?

    Even if it's backed up with training and experience in this particular field?]

    Or, something else?
    This is waaaayyyy too much attention being paid to this one statement.

    Get over it. There are many more things more important than to spend these many posts on.

  • Doc Holliday

    that might not be far from the truth. I think Cain said he was in Vegas and he and his campaign manager decided they needed to put something out there quickly. Maybe they were lit up? Either way, the ad was a smash hit.

  • Doc Holliday

    some bubbly, and fresh squeezed oj, nice treat.

  • westbrook348

    as long as that candidate didn’t support any bailouts such as TARP or support in state tuition for illegals.

    After 8 years of Bush and 3 of Obama, I want a true fiscal conservative. So go ahead. Nominate away.

  • Doc Holliday

    guess I have Saturday breakfast planned in Herman’s honor!

  • westbrook348

    nt

  • reggie182

    I love em. I may have a couple if the Rangers win tonight.

  • Doc Holliday

    over that joint. Time the end the Rangers o fer existence.

  • carolina

    I suspect that his recent speech where he did not mention TX was an early indication of some professional national campaign advisors.
    I really hope Perry can get his campaign going. I would much rather vote for Perry than Romney in the general election.

  • irishgirl

    I did.

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    CW

  • westbrook348

    mentioning the birth certificate makes you fringe, but asking to see Obama’s college transcripts and test scores is a legitimate issue, especially for a guy like Rick Perry, whose grades have been well publicized and he’s been mocked because of them.

    I really want to see Obama’s scores, because you know they’re awful; otherwise the arrogant dirtbag would’ve released them to brag about them all the time. Forcing him to admit his mediocrity would be the icing on the cake for me, and Rick Perry could’ve been the one to do it.

  • clintonformccain

    Frankly, the only way I could imagine such a muddled abortion answer from a Republican presidential candidate would be if he had been drinking.

    I think it’s time for people to start asking, “Who is Herman Cain?” We really no nothing about him….

  • westbrook348

    Is it because he’s losing steam according to the narrative? He seems to still be doing pretty well in the polls. Peter Schiff brings up the fourth 9 all the time.

    Cain’s plan should be called the 9-9-9-9 plan. His corporate tax of 9% does not include an exemption for employee wages, as the current corporate tax does. This means that Cain is lying when he says he would abolish the payroll tax. He would get rid of the 15% current payroll tax, but install a 9% payroll tax in its place. This is a big problem because the inability to deduct workers’ salaries hits businesses with a tax regardless of whether the company makes a profit or not. If a company loses money, it still pays a 9% tax for each of its employees. And unlike the corporate tax, which is passed on to the shareholders, a payroll tax is passed on to the workers, lowering wages and inhibiting the hiring of new employees. This is unacceptable in our current 20% unemployment environment.

  • gekster

    Perry was asked a direct question in an interview.
    He did not bring it up, the reporter did.
    He didn’t say anything tio imply Obama wasn’t a citizen or a legal holder of the office of President.
    He said that the issue was just a distraction.
    The reporter, and then the MSM tried to take a nothing story and turn it into something to hurt Perry.
    It worked because some people with little to no mind take the fake story, and without doing any reaserch on thier own, run with it.
    It appears you are one of those people.

  • Scope

    The Bret Baier Romney hour just played a hit piece on Cain including that his campaign staff sent a memo to anyone driving in the car with him to not speak to him unless he speaks to them first. Here we go guys, buckle up. We all knew this was going to happen when Cain started topping Rpmney in the polls.

  • izoneguy
  • westcoastpatriette

    but I don’t think he would risk offending his social conservative base that much.

  • izoneguy

    From a lefty website.

    Going after the OWS crowd….LOL

  • rightwingmom52

    And CW, I passed on your request on the ads already. Hopefully, I can tell Herman tomorrow in person at our tea party meet and greet. I’ll let y’all know if I spot him with a beer or glass of wine. Of course, I’m no expert on the subject, but I think I’ll be able to tell if he’s under the influence.

  • rightwingmom52

    since I had additional comment, and I’m not even drinking. But then I’m not perfect, either.

  • pantera

    Great. The one conservative that would of brought any excitement to the GOP ticket was the main target of establishment scorn. Now it’s probably going to end up with two status quo nominees.
    Obama and the GOP shape shifter Obama.

    Eric are you going to do a hour by hour countdown for Obama’s election day victory. Just make sure you keep it going till Alaska’s votes are counted.

  • bobguzzardi

    Rick Perry has, actually, held elected office; has actually run in many hotly contested political campaigns, has actually won all of them even against the Texas Bush Establishment, and has, actually, governed successfully…unlike all the all-knowing pundits, many anonymous.

    As Governor, Rick Perry has “gotten it done” even Gardasil and immigration policies are testament to his governing skills. Whether you like it or not, Gov. Perry “got it done.”

    His Flat Tax Plan is not policy perfect but it, radically, at the root, alters the dynamics of tax code. As an experienced politician, advised by the reliable Steve Forbes, it may well be that Rick Perry calculated that his 20 Flat Tax could actually be enacted. When has policy perfect proposal actually been enacted. Answer Never.

    Clearly, Flat Tax is not business as usual. The plan is Goldilocks Plan – just right – moves radically to reduce cost of compliance for more growth and higher standard of living for everyone and not so radical as to be politically impossible to enact or implement.

    Gov. Perry presents as someone with Main Street authenticity against slick WashingtonWallStreet Establishment types and notice all the snarkiness is coming from Northeast, Rs and Ds.

    Any Jew who was not moved by Rick Perry’s support for Zion and his promise to move the embassy to Jerusalem, Israel’s eternal and undivided capital, is a heartless Liberal.

    Rick Perry is the Guy

  • westbrook348

    Sure the reporter brought it up. But Perry said it was “fun” to keep the birther conspiracy alive. Took him 3 tries before he finally called it a distraction and shut up about it.

    The MSM is full of demon worshippers, but Perry fanned the flames by calling it “fun.”

    And anyway, my point was not about Perry feeding the birthers. I couldn’t care less. If I was Perry I would have mocked the media hackery by simply pointing out that the Obama campaign made a t-shirt joking about the birth certificate. If they can have fun w/ it and not take offense, then so can anyone.

    But my point was that Perry missed an opportunity. He should’ve emphasized the lack of Obama’s transparency in not releasing any transcripts or test scores. Because it’s my opinion that BHO strongly does not want anyone to know how his paper trail does not match up w/ the “Harvard Law Review” narrative of brilliance. And since Perry’s grades have been all over the front pages, he has a legitimate gripe about lack of fairness; he could’ve done what no one’s done in 4 years: gotten BHO to release his miserable scores, destroying one of the media’s favorite narratives.

    But yeah, sure, I have little to no mind. Whatever. Bet you in a debate I wouldn’t look as braindead as Perry. He sets a pretty low bar though.

  • beach91

    Agree completely! Enough said!

  • Scope

    Baier just said that when he was asked about the possibility of a third party run in 2012, that he would not rule it out. I believe he has said in the past that he would not go third party, but he is a politician after all. Did anyone see that?

  • avgjo

    Specifically that Baier and Wallace sat and strategized? I have no doubt that that FOX is in the tank for Romney (Ailes and moderation crap), but beyond our own observation and common sense, is there is any evidence? I’m asking this question in earnest, because I would love to have such information.

    Thanks.

  • avagreen

    Agree with beach and bob.
    ;)

  • avgjo

    He gave them the rope to hang him with.

    His arrogance is starting to show, by the indications. First, the memo you mentioned. And they said at some recent event, he stayed on his bus until it was time for him to speak while other candidates worked the crowds. You know who else did that? Bachmann. And some Iowa Tea Party guy called her out for her ‘rock-star crap’ and how it’d better stop. Look at her numbers now.

    We still know nothing of Cain. It is hard to measure whether he was really that successful with Godfather’s, since so many numbers have not been released to the public. He is a gaffe machine. He played the race card against an innocent man, and then went on to make very ‘insensitive’ remarks about electrocuting farm laborers with a fence. To add insult to injury, every time he is caught in a lie or gaffe, he claims he was ‘taken out of context’ ,or ‘joking’ or that his opponents are lying. He talks out of both sides of his mouth (q.v. the abortion comments from last time) and his petulance at the last debate when he was hammered on ‘nahn-nahn-nahn’ was embarrassing. Then he doubles down on that the next day, saying that those who were questioning his plan were on his ‘last nerve’. Real mature way to handle adversity. And the people who are supporting this clown think he’ll be able to handle the Obama smear machine and the anal exam from the media? IF by some fluke he gets the nomination, he’s toast.

  • lineholder

    According to the article, Cain’s ad went viral. Oh, it was risky, I don’t deny that at all. It’s very unconventional and nontraditional, but as the outsider in an anti-politician environment, it’s possible that the risk could pay off.

    If nothing else, it increases his name recognition.

  • Common_Cents

    with the most conservative record, governing experience etc…

    All this is great but the world does not beat a path to your door for your better mouse trap.

    If he can’t communicate his value through campaigning and debates, then does it matter?

    If he can’t do it for conservatives in his own party, how the heck can he do it in the general election?

    Nobody really questions Perry’s record or experience. There is a lot of spilled digital ink over his record, duh, we get it. He’d be a great CIC. People question his ability to close the dang deal, with good reason.

    Cmon Perry, get it on then!

  • clintonformccain

    do or do not drink wine in the morning. I am concerned with whether a Presidential candidate, whom we know absolutely nothng about, is or is not an alcoholic.

    Is there anyone on this thread who knows Herman Cain well enough to judge if he has a drinking problem? When I hear that somebody is drinking in morning, it raises a warning flag.

  • onemovoter

    Looking back at the comments on that debate most said that it was about even for Perry even though expectations were high.

    It was the second and third debates that really hit him in the polling.

  • tommyfrisco

    I couldn’t vote a straight Republican ticket because I liked Charlie Stenholm and Rick Perry. Anyone that compares the Democrats out in West Texas back in those days to the Democrat Party of today is either ignorant of the truth or they are distorting it.

  • westcoastpatriette

    nt

  • cbartlett

    of Big Government” include not only a substantial number of voters who get some kind of entitlement payment, BUT also include tons and tons of federal government employees (and probably spouses and other family members) who would stand to lose their jobs if a true conservative abolishes all of those federal agencies that are consistently wasting our taxpayer money producing job-killing regulations by the bucketful. And, sadly, a large percentage of those voters are uneducated and uninformed – they will vote to protect the staus quo based on a handful of sound bytes that the Dems will serve on a silver platter in TV spots next fall. We most definitely have our work cut out. How does the saying go? –
    For evil to prevail, all that is required is for good men to do nothing.

  • onemovoter

    I’m sure they get 10′s of thousands of emails all the time. I think most staff of candidates disregard these and go with their own ideas.

    I did one time get an unprompted email from the Cain staff asking for permission on a research paper I did on Aquila and Cain’s time there. This was in response to the Ronulans claiming this issue was Cain’s “Enron” problem. Otherwise I was always brushed off when I submitted what I thought were quite brilliant ideas for Cain.

    This is why I’m asking about responses.

  • Scope

    Granted it is from the leftist Howard Kurtz, but he includes direct quotes in his article. We all know that Fox has gone middle of the road at best. If you watched the Fox debate, do you not see that Baier and Wallace did in fact set Perry up? The first question in that debate was from a YouTube video asking what the candidate would do to insure that as a small business owner, that he would be able to grow his business, and feel comfortable to hire more employees. Baier gave that question to Perry. Perry talked about lower business taxes, tort reform, less regulation etc. At the end of Perry’s response Baier came back at him and said that the people want more details and specific plans. He noted that some on stage already came out with plans, and why hasn’t he put forth a plan? No question at all that it was a set-up or more appropriately a sabotage against the Perry campaign.

  • anxious4change

    and I looked at my husband and said OH NO. And seriously, any respect I have for the man would be totally gone if he did such a thing.

  • daemonocracy

    So your Tea Party branch supports yet another revenue stream for the Federal Government in the form of a National Sales Tax that enthusiastically? I am VERY concerned Herman Cain is another Sharon Angle; the TP makes mistakes.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    no text

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    given that Perry announced no debate schedule when he entered, it would look bad now to skip any after not doing so well.

    I lean to Cain but expect Perry to rise and hope he does.

  • avgjo

    Oh no, I agree that they were setting him up. FOX is clearly out to deep six Perry. But I was looking for somethiing you gave me, so that if I tell others, they know I’m not just stating my own idea.

    Thanks again.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    and said it was due to the best use of his time, I think he could survive that.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    good point

  • cbartlett

    We have an engineering consulting firm and our employees’ time and work is what we sell, not “things”. That 9% corporate tax on gross receipts when you can’t deduct your employees salaries, is a huge tax increase for service-based industires. The average taxpayer (not business owner) may not understand how businesses work but I sure thought Cain would know better. Maybe it’s because he mostly sold pizzas and only had minimum wage workers making them?

  • cbartlett

    nt

  • avgjo

    nt

  • acat

    with the “Social Security as Ponzi scheme” punch?

    Seems to me like he’s consistent in tone.

    Concur, by the way, that Perry’s flat tax does seem to be calibrated very nicely. Hadn’t thought of Goldilocks but .. it works.

    Mew

  • westbrook348

    GOP needs to be careful who it nominates. People are sick of the bailouts and absolutely done choosing the “lesser of two evils.”

    Notice how none of the GOP’s top tier beats Obama with any regularity in polls. Pres Obama has done such an abysmal job, been an absolute failure, and it’s still difficult for Romney, Cain, and Perry to beat him in polls. Independents have really been turned off by Obama, but that doesn’t mean they are that interested in voting Republican this time around. 2008 was “Anyone but Bush” for a REASON. No more bailouts, no more crony capitalism, no more wasteful nation building.

  • Scope

    I’m just watching you on with Anderson Cooper, and you decide to go all in with Perry bashing. Do you adjust your message to who you are on with at CNN? You have bashed the debates, and called them useless when you wanted them all to skip the debates and come on with your debate idea. Now, according to your comments, Perry is nothing more than apiece of useless crap, and he is as dumb as the leftists have called him. What a champ for conservatism EE.

  • onemovoter

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/us/politics/as-cain-touts-management-skills-ex-aides-tell-of-chaos.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

    It’s a pretty devastating hit piece with a few named people but the rest are off the record but still talked on the record.

    Seems Nate Silver is also quizzical about Cain’s rise in the polls.
    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/herman-cain-outlier/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Champagne or Hock for breakfast.

  • westbrook348

    Perry’s record is better than Romney’s or Cain’s. By far. BUT

    I didn’t want Bush to “get it done” on Prescription drugs.
    I didn’t want Bush to “get it done” on No Child Left Behind.
    I didn’t want Bush to “get it done” on invading Iraq.
    I didn’t want Bush to “get it done” on TARP and the bailouts.

    And that’s precisely why I am not an avid fan of Perry. I don’t want someone who was able to “get it done” on Gardasil or tuition for illegals.

    His Flat Tax is a step in the right direction but doesn’t really address one of the main problems. The huge corporations and the few billionaries who game the system and tax code to reduce their taxes still have their deductions and loopholes protected. The Flat Tax will be a very hard sell in the general election when a majority are still ignorant enough to want the Bush Tax Cuts to expire (at least, they think they want it). It’s a huge tax cut for the wealthy. Sure it would boost the economy, but it’s a very hard sell, and I don’t think Perry will be able to sell it, given his debate performances.

    But I’ve already determined that I will never vote for Romney or Cain if either is nominated, due to their support of TARP, sooo..

    Peter Schiff 2012??

  • tyman

    It seems that everyone at WSB Radio here in Atlanta is in the tank totally for Herman Cain. Newscasters, you name it.

    I guess Erick has to be objective, but not to the point where you tear him down.

    I think it was Avagreen that said that Rush said to disregard the polls. I had forgotten he said that, but he did and he was right.

    The polls are completely designed to discourage supporters of certain candidates. I don’t for a minute believe that Romney and Cain are at the top in South Carolina, while a gun toting, southerner is only at 6%. Just don’t believe that. In NH, I get it, but not in South Carolina.

    Someone else mentioned the Romney camp and the rumors of shenanigans that went on in the Florida straw poll. I never went along with that thought, until something clicked in my brain that it plays right along with what Fox is doing: build Cain up to take Perry out. After all, Romney didn’t campaign for the straw poll, why would he have won? Something would have REALLY looked fishy. So they went for the enemy of their enemy (the enemy of my enemy is my friend).

    Maybe Perry playing coy with the debates is a trick to keep everybody guessing.

    I really hope this fires up the Perry base. I know it’s fired me up!

  • Scope

    The one that was so disparaged for creating a pig fight in the debates, where Romney actually called Anderson, Anderson, please help me. So many took Perry to the mat for being so mean and awful. Then EE gets on with the same Anderson Cooper, whose debate moderation he called awful, and then agrees with Cooper that Perry is just an awful horrible terrible debater. We all know Perry isn’t the greatest debater. No one doubts that. But to sit on CNN and take Perry into the pigpen? I am thankful for the other front pagers here. If I had to go by EE, I would probably have thought the DailyKos would might be more fair to Perry, and more steady in the arguments. The Perry horserace has been all over the map, and then some. I’d bet that at this point, Perry is as sorry he announced at the RS gathering, as EE is sorry he allowed him to do it there. That’s what it sounds like to me.

  • jrhode2873

    I thought his comments were spot on. I’m a former Perry supporter and I realized early on he was an awful Presidential candidate and was running a terrible campaign. Some people are still in denial about this. Really no way back for Perry with his unfavorables so high.

  • aesthete

    Perhaps it’s just due to my odd schedule or some sort of cultural difference, but I see nothing wrong with drinking in the morning and have done so semi-regularly. It would be strange if it were something stronger, but white wine isn’t much to complain about.

  • tngal

    On October 13, a story went up on RS by Brad Jackson about Cain’s 999. The pros and cons were weighed by various posters with Perry supporters in heavy supply.

    I posted,…. “ok its not a flat tax and he’s no goldwater.” and continued on, seeking tweaks for the plan from other posters.

    Turns out , maybe he is a Goldwater. Jeffrey Kuhner the writer of this Washington times article, describes him as a “black Goldwater”. Excellent article for those still trying to find out what it is that makes Hermain Cain so appealing and why he comes up high in the polls.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/oct/27/herman-cain-the-black-barry-goldwater/

    While Cain does well in most debates, I’m looking forward to the modified Lincoln-Douglas he’s got going with Newt. Hope he can hold his own since Newt is also a great debater. Perry need not prep for this one.

  • aesthete

    If he is, then it’s just one more problem with Perry’s truly terrible campaigning.

    You don’t want rumors that your campaign is collapsing or unserious about winning. Threatening to not attend a debate does just that, and no one wants to donate to a candidate who is perceived to not be a value for funds invested.

    Perry needs to debate, and get at least one *win*. Not a draw, not a loss — a win. He’s done a terrible job convincing primary voters to pull the lever for him, and conservatives will not rally around him if he doesn’t give them reason to. So far, he has not.

  • daniel22

    where the tea party support will go. Bachmann was counting on it for her main support. Palin was working it for influence. Ron Paul needed it to be plausible. Perry had it until he opened up his mouth. Romney sure is not a tea party favorite. Gingrich may need it but states his case and lets the chips fall where they may. Cain support is questionable until he gets better organized. Finally, Karl Rove absolutely detests the tea party as does the main establishment republicans.
    They will stand up and be counted when there is someone to be counted with. The old game of tailoring your campaign to fit the audience is over. So far the only candidate to come close to that would be Gingrich. It is his baggage that slows support. With Cain it is his lack of history and experience within the political realm that has slowed him.
    If this campaign boils down to who can beat Obama we will lose more than just an election.

  • joayn

    and I don’t think the Perry camp would just say this without some plan behind it. He said he was committed through to Michigan, but after that? No matter his bad performances, he does add a certain level of anticipation to the debates, no?

  • supergirl2911

    that winning the straw poll contributed significantly to Herman Cain’s rise. It brought him recognition and media time beyond what he had before that.

  • rightwingmom52

    Thanks for the heads up. So many good things in there it’s hard to pick a favorite, but I’ll try.

    Mr. Cain?s visceral appeal is that he is the outsider, the anti-establishment candidate. Unlike Mr. Romney, Mr. Cain is not a conventional politician. On the campaign trail, Mr. Cain?s answers are often not scripted; rather, they are blunt, raw and honest. He is articulate and passionate and uses simple, clear language that resonates with the electorate. In short, he is not a phony.

    Moreover, he is a populist reformer who embodies much of the Tea Party insurgency against the decrepit governing class. Mr. Cain?s candidacy is tapping into Middle America?s frustration and anger with Imperial Washington. Politicians have brought America to the brink of collapse. Inside the Beltway, Mr. Cain?s lack of political experience is seen as a huge negative. In the heartland, however, it is viewed as a virtue.

  • supergirl2911

    of all of them, Perry’s demeanor (maybe a Texas thing?) just comes across as “the winner” I watch him and I am excited. (I do not mean a thrill up my leg…please!) However, I like what he says and how he says it. He has made mistakes and ADMITTED them which most candidates don’t do. They keep talking and over explaining. Although the common consensus it Perry would not do in a debate against Obama, I think he would do great. I think his style would be a great contrast. I think both Obama and Romney come across as patronizing and I am smarter I know better I will lecture you like a college professor. I would not vote for or support on style alone. I would not discount him on style alone.

  • unclefred

    Perry is in single digits but he is the ONLY choice other than Romney?

    Not a single caucus held. Not a single primary vote cast. Yet Perry is the only alternative? Not so much.

    Sorry. I like some of what Perry has to say and dislike, profoundly dislike, his tin ear on immigration.

    Sure I’ll take him over Romney but. at least at this point, I’ll take Cain over Perry and maybe, despite all his flaws, even take Newt.

    We have a at least three viable choices other than Romney, and they, and Romney, all have flaws. I’ll watch this play out quite a while longer before I’ll sign up for the two man race that the MSM and the conservative pundits have been trying to sell for months.

  • supergirl2911

    nt

  • lineholder

    Thanks for sharing it. I think the author has identified significant factors on why voters are responding as positively to Mr. Cain as they are.

    I just finished reading an article earlier about Cain, the Outlier…the candidate who is defying all odds and changing the shape of politics in the process.

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/herman-cain-outlier/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    LOL, I’d say that the author, as a political pundit, isn’t very happy about that right now.

    I’m looking forward to the L-D style debate as well. Given that it focuses on entitlements, it should be very interesting. It will definitely be both an opportunity and a challenge for both candidates.

  • supergirl2911

    is the confusion of the media about Perry bringing up immigration. They want to convince the public that Perry is weak on immigration and use words and phrases to start a story. They are shocked that Perry would attack in his weak area. I don’t think it is his weak area and I don’t think Perry thinks it a weak area. And it looks like Mitt knows nothing about immigration (as far as solving a problem) and HIRED some. Really. Where is the HYPOCRISY OUTRAGE over that and his political ambition? I want to see a billboard.

  • unclefred

    I had a wind fall a while back and ended up finding a small highly specialized financial management company. I’m not rich, nor can I retire, but the chunk of money that I received demanded full time attention, which I can’t provide and work for a living.

    So when the market started to take off I pinged him because I see no basis for it. Neither does he, nor does his analyst group. You are looking at a contrived response. In the past we have seen currency and credit manipulation by this administration to pump up the market. I have to believe that we are seeing it again. If so they won’t be able to sustain it through Nov. 2102.

    We’ll just have to wait and see what falls out.

  • avagreen

    I think every person that does not appreciate their attempt at engineering an election would do good to STOP watching FOX, and write them to say so.

    They can make a choice of who they wish to serve.

    As I’ve said before: I’m watching the alphabet news programs…….and have written FOX telling them so.

    I believe in grassroot movements, and FOX deserves one right now.

  • supergirl2911

    I thought it was early in the morning…. as in 10 am not before evening. Personally I have watched someone very close to me grab a beer before lunch time and I had an inner twinge…. and I said something.
    I hope that I am not judgmental. Generally, I don’t drink but I figure most people do.
    Personally, I thought the morning wine thing was just a rumor.
    I woulld not give or take away support because of it.
    However, back to the previous note, he has not been “vetted” so we don’t know.
    On a humorous note, perhaps it is the wine that brings out the at times funny comments.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    he has diet under control.

  • uncmike

    Honestly, too many people think of the mythical “Tea Party” in monolithic terms. It isn’t a monolith. In fact, it represents a large, but diverse (in terms of thinking), collection of patriotic Americans who think Obama and the Democrats have been pushing policies, both social and economic, that are destructive to American traditional values. I attended 2 tea parties myself, but I sure don’t take marching orders from anyone regarding how I think or whom I will support. In fact, I support Rick Perry, who is the only conservative (Romney does not fit that definition), that has a real change to defeat Romney, who is a pseudo-conservative, but really a big government liberal in disguise. I simply cannot believe Cain can sustain a national campaign over the full course of the primary–fact it, face time on Fox alone will not get you over the finish line. The rest of the field, i.e., Santorum, Gingrich, Bachmann, Huntsman, Paul, simply do not have at this point in time (just over 2 months until Iowa) the resources/support to continue much past Iowa unless they really win, and I don’t see that happening. Like it or not, if Perry stays in, it will be between Romney and Perry in the end in my view. Thus, I fully intend to stay with Rick unless and until he drops out of the race should that happen–I think most Perry voters are rock solid in their support of this man. Where the followers of the other not-Romney candidates will go if their man/woman drops out is hard to tell. Several of them seem so close to Romney (Cain/Bachmann) that they may well move into his column. If Romney wins, his job will be to energize conservative Republicans to go out and vote for him (McCain redux), while beating back a withering barrage from Obama and his minions in the media, Hollywood, and elsewhere.

  • unclefred

    Santorum is history. To bad really because he has a number of good points. I never could figure out why he failed to get traction.

    The tarp attack is grasping at straws. Answered long ago. This borders on a specious attack, which generally we expect conservatives to forswear.

    Cain dealt with the abortion confusion as soon as it came up. Perhaps his answer wasn’t good enough for the extreme edges of the bell curve, but the simple fact that people here, with strongly held views, first indicted him and the retracted that indictment, should tell you this has no legs with the broad voter.

    Plus for those of you concerned with Roe vs Wade, Cain has said that as president he would nominate judges in the model of Clarence Thomas. You could hardly do better.

    Devastating? Perhaps. But more for Santorum than Cain. As Bachmann learned when she did this with Perry, specious charges hit the person making the charge far worse that the target.

  • lineholder

    If you choose to picket Fox News by lending credence to uber-liberal media, that’s up to you. But I’d rather not, thank you.

    FWIW: Please, be very careful about the correlations drawn between the “evil media” and Rick Perry. It sounds all too familiar to many of the “poor Sarah” type of comments heard from many Palin supporters. That didn’t turn out too well. As Conservatives, let’s not repeat that error again, please.

  • joayn

    I would hope, that if by some horrific, horrific turn of events Romney won the nomination, you would reconsider. There’s no doubt in my mind that Perry would support him against Obama. Please reconsider not voting.

  • retire05

    at how we conservatives complained in 2007 and 2008 how the left could even remotely consider a junior senator with no governing experience as even a possiblity for the highest office in the land. We conservatives tried to tell them “Don’t you know that pretty speeches do not a President make?”

    “Oh, but” the liberals said, “Obama will be a change. Our hope for a better nation. He will end the war. Unemployment will decrease. He knows how to get things done. Obama is different.”

    Now, I find that conservatives are doing the very same thing. They are hanging on the every word spoken by a man they have no idea as to how he will govern. A man who has even less record to judge him on than Obama did.

    Pretty speeches, unconventional ways of campaigning, do not give any insight in to Herman Cain’s ability to govern a nation as large as ours,

    And let’s be really clear about one thing: Cain is NOT a populist reformer. A reformer reforms. Cain has reformed nothing.

  • unclefred

    I’d say that is rolling, wouldn’t you?

    As for Perry, he has to face that he is out of step with the regular voter on illegals already in the country. He can launch all the tax and energy plans he wants, but until he addresses this he is not going anywhere. I really don’t get it. This single issue has dropped him 20+ points in the polls. You’d think he’d get it, but either through arrogance or ignorance he seems unable to grasp the importance of this issue to voters. If he doesn’t get it he will have no chance to stand toe to toe with Obama.

    Perry and Cain both have a number of positives. We’d all be better served if they deal effectively with their issues. So far Perry has been unable to so do.

  • malachi45

    I am very afraid the tea Party is going to screw us with this attitude that inexperience and sound bites are the best criteria for choosing a nominee.

  • lineholder

    It isn’t all up to just Conservatives to elect the next President of the United States. Republicans comprise only 33% of the electorate, and Conservatives are a subsection of that total, not the entire total.

    The author of the article has identified reasons as to why portions of the electorate are in favor of supporting Cain.

    Conservatives can moan, groan, belittle, ridicule, scoff or mock at it to our heart’s content, but that isn’t necessarily going to alter the reality.

    What would actually be wiser by far to do in this particular context for a candidate who might find themselves categorized as a “politician” is to consider in what ways they could present themselves as being “not just another politician”. Something outside the status quo of typical politicians.

  • unclefred

    When I first saw this I was very concerned. Seriously very very concerned. Still Cain built his success in a high labor industry on paper thin margins, so I did not see how he would support a tax plan that disadvantaged businesses with a high labor cost.

    First direct labor is not taxed. Indirect labor is taxed. The tax hits administration and support staff. For most companies this is relatively minor. In the case of services industries virtually all labor is direct labor. Your “product” is the service you provide, so your labor is direct. You may have to structure you contracts a but differently, but products are not just things you can pick up and carry around.

    In my business, none of our payroll would be taxed. This is because we administration is performed as an adjunct by people who otherwise are direct labor.

    I’m sure that some businesses would fair less well with regard to payroll. However with 100% immediate deductibility of all capital investment and the other things in 9-9-9, I have to believe that when it all rolls to the bottom line even businesses that have a payroll downside will be better off.

  • retire05

    Ummm, seems to be some discrepancies here. Cain was on the Michael Berry show (Houston) on Oct. 25th. He told Berry he had raised $2 million in October. That’s a wee short of $1 mil a week.

    Even if Cain could keep that pace up (saying he is now collecting $1 mil/wk) he will only gain $12 million by January 1st. It has also been reported that Cain has few bundlers and that is a major problem. I also heard tonight on Fox that Cain has been scheduled to appear at fund raisers created just for him and has been a no-show. It seems that he only has six staff members in Iowa and New Hampshire.

    Now, an unconventional campaign might win the day, but not a stupid one.

  • unclefred

    What you see is what you get…
    Cain may win the nomination or not, but it is devastatingly difficult to go after someone who simply is himself.

    Love him or hate him, Cain is authentic. He admits when he misspeaks, and corrects when misquoted. His life is pretty much out there.

    I predict that no “hit piece” will hurt him much because he isn’t hiding anything.

    Cain is not a politician, and as such is not vulnerable to typical political attacks.

  • clintonformccain

    And, he would certainly run 3rd party. But, that would be the end of Rand Paul’s political career and I don’t think Rand Paul is crazy, He won’t let his dad pull that kind of nonsense.

  • retire05

    but independents will elect the next president, just as they elected Obama.

    But independents tend to look at issues (the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, a crashing market, jobless rates rising, etc) and are going to vote those issues again. With all those things still on their radar, are they going to be willing to take a risk with a guy who has no record of governing?

    That is the real question of this campaign season.

  • lineholder

    Because these articles all indicate that his fundraising has run at about $1million/week for the month of Oct.

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/10/herman-cain-fundraising-9-9-9-tax-plan-/1

    http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-10-23/politics/30312658_1_herman-cain-brit-hume-blunders

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/189299-cain-raises-more-than-1-million-per-week-in-october

  • lineholder

    I live in NC, which is one of the coveted “swing states”

    Cain is leading Obama here, 46/41

    http://www.nccivitas.org/2011/civitas-poll-cain-leads-obama-in-n-c/

  • tngal

    I knew you guys could appreciate it. I was hoping some of those who ask “what is it you like about cain” would finally get their answer.

    Don’t believe that people are really looking for the answer anymore. At this point people have taken sides.

    And its looking like a vampire – werewolf fued. Rise of the lichens or something.

    Also, while numerous articles do offer good words for Cain, they feel obligated to insert the now-tired “even though he has no real chance of winning” line. Not this one though.

    And Lineholder, I read the article abot “Outlier”. Silvers I think was the author. That was definately a math thing. (not my strong suit) I got through much of it, though. Yeah I took the same meaning as you. Lots of methodology, No candidate has ever done what he’s done, its unprecented and he’s set the historical statistical world on its ear, lots of numbers , …..then comes back with the “but he’s not going to win’ meme.

  • lineholder

    It blows every statistical analysis pattern and political analogy they’ve ever relied on slap out of the water to even consider it.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    pivotal to gaining “experience” is not adopting-by-reference
    it’s preferable to perform personal due-diligence research
    otherwise, you cannot claim to “own” all of your opinions

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    please do not pigeon-hole Rick regarding the Texas-only immigration policy; its geography is unique and – ultimately – border-control is a Federal issue.

  • retire05

    Michael Berry has a website

    michaelberry.com

    I think. Perhaps the interview with Cain is there. But I do know it was a live interview. Berry comes on at 2:00 p.m. cst, and when he first came on Tuesday he said that Herman Cain was set to be interviewed by him at 3:00 p.m, but there was a problem. It seems Cain’s campaign manager wanted to give Michael Berry a list of questions he could ask Cain. Now, Berry has a rule with candidates. He takes questions for a couple of days prior from listeners, and then picks the ones he thinks best serves his audience. In this case, Texans.

    At about 2:45, after a commercial, Berry said the problems had been worked out and Cain would answer his questions. So I listened to the entire interview.

    Most of it was pretty good, but I found one thing wrong: Berry asked Cain if he still felt Perry was “insensitive” over the rock. Cain tried to divert the question by saying he didn’t how how Perry felt about Iraq. Berry cleared that up, and Cain said he never said Governor Perry was “insenstive.” But that was not entirely true.

    I remember Cain’s interviews over the “rock” and remember how he seemed to want to place blame on Perry over it, yet the information Cain was relying on seemed to be sketchy at best, simply going along with the interviewer and what the WaPo had said. So I wanted to email Berry that Cain was spinning and I copied down exactly what Cain said.

    “There isn’t a more vile, negative word than the N-word, and for him to leave it there as long as he did, before I hear that they finally painted over it, is just plain insensitive to a lot of black people in the country.”

    Now, if that is not calling Perry “insensitive”, I don’t know what is, but Cain tried to distance himself from that on the Berry show. And it is being dishonest.

    I’m a Texan, lineholder. I don’t like that the federal government refuses to do their job when it comes to illegals anymore than the next person, but I don’t like people playing the “ethnic” card anymore than I like them playing the race card. Cain threw the race card down on Perry before he had all the facts, and then his statements about “electric” fence, just killed all the respect I had for Cain. You see, I was a Cain supporter for most of this year. No more. He isn’t ready for prime time. And he damn sure is not going to be able to pop off to someone like Putin and then come back the next day and say Putin just needs to get a sense of humor.

    Cain popped off about “the rock” before he was in possession of all the facts. And he used the WaPo story to go after Perry. It was a shoddy thing to do. If Perry went after Cain over a hit piece in the WaPo without have first gotten all the facts, I would be raking Perry over the coals for that, as well.

    Now you know where I stand, and why.

    As to Cain raising $1 mil a week. Maybe so. But it won’t hold without large bundlers (which he has none) to keep that momentum going.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …and note capacity of Perry to replicate Reagan’s performance.

    As a principled conservative, he would have a greater level of acceptance throughout fly-over USA.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …instead, they are merely plotting for “good TV”!

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    and, unlike the Gardisil attack by Michele, this broadside is well-documented.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    don’t forget the newt

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    “fun” … but that’s all!

    i’m an anti-tobacco activist since the 1970′s…and i found this to be hysterical

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …first of all, as a close-pal of guzzardi, I’m THRILLED with the reception he has received; you should all look forward to more emanations from the Buddha of Ardmore…and you can read his compilation of personal thoughts here:

    http://thelibertyblog.org/

    [Guzzardi and I and my son were in-the-room when Rick announced @ the Red State Gathering; we signed-up exclusively to be @ that site...as soon as his presence had been announced by EE.]

    …secondly, he can “get it done” regarding the key-priority of the TEA Party Movement, namely, a Reaganesque dismantling of D.C. This will entail a reduction of entitlements that should satisfy the core-desires of those who harbor the litany of objections such as has been provided by Westbrook.

    [The only exception would be Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan, for he deeply is committed to the war against Islamists...wherever it leads.]

    [Also, don’t forget that no one got a Gardisil injection and that he admitted error in this regard; perpetuation of this concern impugns your integrity.}

    …and thirdly, regarding tax-reform, he must first introduce a parallel system before dismantling the onerous components of the current one.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …he/she will coalesce and dominate BHO.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    First, “it ain’t over until it’s over.”

    Second, has anyone found the video of EE’s comments?

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …because he could simply integrate quotes from “Fed Up!”

  • hweila

    The rules for this year’s Republican Primary are RADICALLY different than previous. Unlike previous years were almost all Republican contests were “winner-take-all” this year all contests through the end of March (30+) are proportional (plus any later ones that set their rules that way).

    This means that, unlike previous years, Romney CAN’T win outright with just 25%,-30% plurality. This is why he isn’t going after anyone other than Perry. If he goes after Cain and/or Gingrich, he runs a much higher risk of not being able to deal with their delegates at the convention to end up on the eventual ticket.

  • avgjo

    I meant ‘…side of FOX’.

    And for people who claim to be ‘fair and balanced’, it IS disgusting.

  • lineholder

    And for the moment, just take out personal factors of who supports whom.

    I live in NC. The demographics of the population here are 27% Conservative, 10% Moderate Republican, and the rest are either Independents, Mod Dems (yes, we do have “blue dogs”) and liberals.

    There’s been a fairly strong anti-government, anti-politician, anti-status quo environment in this state, which played a part in Republicans winning both state house and senate in 2010, the first time since the late 1800s.

    Amazingly enough, there’s also a fair amount of ABO sentiment in this state right now.

    Perception of the top four Republican candidates is Romney farthest to the left, Perry farthest to the right, with Newt and Cain in between.

    Natural inclination for people of a state with demographics like what exist here in NC would be to go with someone to the left of Perry. I’m sorry to say that, but it’s true.

    Conservatives here could yell about it until we’re blue in the face and it wouldn’t do a bit of good. Perry himself would have to convince them.

    Regardless of what you might think about Cain, as far my state is concerned, he’s tapped into both the anti-politician environment and the ABO sentiment here, and he’s doing better than anyone expected him to do.

    When I see people expressing this notion that all that has to happen is for Cain to get out of the race and his supporters would automatically revert to Perry…not in my state they won’t. They’d move to Newt or Romney first. Depending on how it goes, chances are greater that Romney would be the one who would benefit the most from it. (And it’s usually at this point that I get ticked off, because I don’t want Romney to be the nominee).

    What I’m going to say may sound harsh, and I don’t really mean it in that context, but the whole world doesn’t revolve around Texas. There are 49 other states in the nation of ours, and those of us who live outside of Texas are likely to consider what kinds of things could happen within their own state.

    Is there a chance that Perry could win a state like NC? I don’t know. I really don’t. If Perry wants to win a state like the one I live in, then he’s going to have to really step it up and do an exceptional job from here on out in changing people’s minds.

  • westbrook348

    I know so many people who are fed up with the “rigged” system. They think Obama is terrible, but also want to see the GOP go down if it doesn’t return to its small government platform. They are independents and they outnumber either party. They are tired of bailouts and crony capitalism and all the warmongering.

    You seem pretty confident that the eventual nominee will be able to appeal to these independents, but I am much more skeptic, especially if the nominee is one of the “big three”: Romney, Cain, Perry. They WILL vote 3rd party to prove a point to the GOP. And it’s a pretty significant size of the electorate.

    The tea parties were just the beginning. After the 2010 elections, the House caved on the budgets and the debt ceiling. Many Tea Partiers realize that the “tea party candidates” such as Cain are pro-TARP Greenspan lovers.

    The GOP is in danger of splintering, and that’s why I’m urge you to be cautious and don’t take these people for granted. Obama would love to see a GOP civil war, but the GOP has to earn these peoples’ vote. “Lesser of two evils” is an idea of the past.

  • westbrook348

    he’s not “crazy”; you just disagree w/ him on certain political issues. Name calling won’t get you anywhere.

    Furthermore, if Ron ran 3rd party, it would have nothing to do with Rand. They are both adult men who have minds of their own. Rand will be fine regardless. He’s the best senator we have, and I’m including Rubio in that assessment.

  • LibertyWins

    leaves me far more confident that he cares about Hispanics who are legal immigrants and proud Americans. He certainly was very friendly to Hispanics in his appointments as Governor.

    Cain is still an unknown. What does surface is not flattering for a conservative or a serious candidate. Cain better get serious otherwise, down he’ll go.

  • westbrook348

    I hate CA elections where my vote doesn’t matter

  • westbrook348

    backing a candidate who supported TARP

  • westbrook348

    Perry would certainly dismantle DC more than Romney or Cain would; I have confidence in that. I’m not so confident he can win the general election though. (By the way, Reagan did not “dismantle” government; he only talked about it. He cut taxes and ballooned the deficit).

    You’re right that Perry will have trouble w/ many independents who are tired of the wars. Afghanistan was justified (but after 10 years and one bin Laden later, people are tired of it), Iraq can’t be justified, and it’s laughable that you call the Iraqi invasion a “war against Islamists.” Sure Iraq was Islamist under Saddam, but they weren’t terrorists threatening the USA. Iraq was concerned w/ Iran, not America, and Iran was (quite frankly) GLAD we took Saddam out.

    Furthermore, what does “commitment” mean with regards to Iran? How far would Perry go? War with Iran, particularly invasion, would be outright madness. Sure we would win the war eventually, if our economy didn’t crash first. But the cost would be insane. War with Iran would make the Iraq debacle look like a party. Heck, it would make Vietnam look like a party. It’s the last thing we should be considering. This warmongering needs to end; there are better ways of dealing with terrorists and defending our soil without threatening to invade yet ANOTHER country.

    The Gardasil issue will always concern me. Apologies are just words, and mean nothing unless backed by action. Especially from a politician. “Impugns my integrity” haha funny.

    You may be right about tax reform, though I think one could at least dismantle the most onerous component concomittantly with the introduction of the alternative. Why wait? There is absolutely no reason to allow big companies to keep their loopholes and avoid paying the same tax rate as smaller companies with less resources.

  • LibertyWins

    1) His ground team is of no consequence in Iowa, NH, & SC
    2) He is campaigning s if there is some sort of national primary.
    3) His foot in mouth disease is a mortal illness for a candidate with no record in public office.

    Utilimately, I think Perry’s better ground game and war-chest to flood the airwaves in Iowa, NH, & SC will beat Cain’s 999 World Tour. When Perry beats Cain in Iowa, Cain will simply implode until he drops out after losing NH to Romney and SC to Perry. Perry wins Florida and rides to the nomination as Romney sees the writing on the wall. Cain cannot compete with Perry or Romney to buy air time in Florida. Its Game Over for Cain by then.

    Perry may be down in the polls but, he is not out, his energy plan and economic plan may not excite voters yet but, they did impress big donors from Corporations, Oil & Gas Firms, and even Wall Street. Perry will keep raking in the money until he owns the narrative in the media and locks in voters with some good old fashioned retail politicking. Perry is the one to watch.

  • avagreen

    You’re not a disappointment at all.

    This wasn’t addressed to you at any rate as you are obviously anti-Perry.
    Don’t care what you choose to call the other networks, when they give a more balanced portrayal than Fox, they are being more balanced.

    Take a look at the post below mine. Apparently, I’m not the only one of this opinion.
    You’re picking fights with Scope; now, I’m on your radar?
    Ignore.

  • avagreen

    Coupled with that tasteless ad he’s recently put out with what looks like a bong the guy is smoking, now this look at the inside of his campaign.
    We also have enough of this kind of runaway arrogance and ignorance in how to handle problems in the WH now. Don’t need a repeat.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/us/politics/as-cain-touts-management-skills-ex-aides-tell-of-chaos.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

    Cain Promotes His Management Skills, Ex-Aides Tell of Campaign in Chaos
    Josh Anderson for The New York Times

    By SUSAN SAULNY
    Published: October 26, 2011

    If Herman Cain feels his management skills are up to any challenge, some of his former staff members think he should have started with the disorder in his own campaign.

    Mr. Cain has hardly shown up in New Hampshire and Iowa, they said, spending the bulk of his time on a book tour through the South. He occasionally mishandled potential big donors or ignored real voters. His campaign churned through the small staff; last week, his campaign announced the appointment of the veteran campaigner Steve Grubbs, his third Iowa leader in four months.

    Even bumper stickers have been hard to come by.

    And then there was that e-mail to the staff about traveling in a car with Mr. Cain: ?Do not speak to him unless you are spoken to,? the memo said.

    ?I found it odd,? said a former staff member who liked to prep Mr. Cain for appearances while driving. The aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, quit not long afterward, citing the e-mail as one of the deciding factors.

    Mr. Cain?s campaign has generated much promise since it began over the summer. A former business executive rises improbably from anonymity to the top of the polls, using the strength of his speechmaking, folksy charm and catchy policy plans.

    But Mr. Cain?s campaign may have undermined itself with questionable decisions and a series of missteps, which have led to the impression that the candidate lacks focus and preparation.

    Mr. Cain has made several contradictory, and sometimes befuddling, remarks on abortion and foreign policy, which have forced him to spend days clarifying and defending himself.

    This week, an online video became an instant punch line, so untraditional that Mr. Cain faced questions about whether the video was a parody, given its low production values and a sequence in which Mr. Cain?s campaign manager takes a long drag on his cigarette and the candidate grins.

    All presidential candidates make mistakes ? including experienced candidates like Mitt Romney ? and campaigns are chaotic and unruly by nature. For its part, the campaign acknowledges that it has been hard to keep up with Mr. Cain?s explosive growth in popularity. ?We?re working overtime to make it all happen,? said J. D. Gordon, a spokesman.

    But interviews with Mr. Cain?s former staff members, volunteers and supporters give a glimpse of a candidate who appeared to show ambivalence toward basic campaign management, which led to problems in hiring, scheduling, fund-raising and messaging.

    Together, these problems are at odds with a central theme of his candidacy. Because Mr. Cain does not have a legislative or political track record, his campaign rests heavily on the contention that he would bring proven, executive-level expertise from the business world to the White House.

    Several former workers interviewed for this article said they were directed by the campaign not to speak with reporters. (Two said they had signed nondisclosure agreements, a rare demand within political campaigns, and they had been reminded, they said, by the campaign not to speak with the news media.)

    Mr. Cain, a former chief executive of Godfather?s Pizza, has announced that he will increase the number of staff members in Iowa and New Hampshire as well the number of his appearances in the early voting states. Mr. Cain now has a total of six paid staff members working in Iowa and New Hampshire, with 44 more workers across the country.

    Some former aides said they had longed to see the problem-solving side of Mr. Cain, or to see Mr. Cain at all. Over the spring and summer, he did not spend much time with workers. He did not plan conference calls or staff meetings and was given to changing his mind about appearances, sometimes with little notice, a tendency that angered his field workers.

    ?It was frustrating because we couldn?t get him here as much as I was led to believe he was going to be here,? said Kevin Hall, who worked for Mr. Cain in Iowa in June.

    ?Everything we tried to do was like pulling teeth to get accomplished,? said a former staff member in Iowa, who asked for anonymity. ?I?ve never been involved in a job that was as frustrating as this one. We couldn?t get an answer on anything. Everything was fly by the seat of your pants.?

    Some of Mr. Cain?s staff was put off by his devotion to publicizing his newly released memoir, ?This Is Herman Cain! My Journey to the White House.? His book tour took him mainly through the South, where primaries will not be held until February at the earliest. The tour helped increase his name recognition and has been ?very successful for us,? Mr. Gordon said.

    Not everyone agreed. ?When I found out about the book in June, I thought, ?Are you kidding?? ? said the same aide who found the e-mail troubling.

    ?That approach alienated some of his former staffers,? said Chris Buck, an unaffiliated Republican strategist in New Hampshire who said he considered working for the Cain campaign earlier this year, but changed his mind. ?I think everybody was bewildered.?

    Setting up offices was also something of a trial. ?When I told people, ?You?ll be getting offices and phone lines,? I?d have to postpone that,? the former staff member in Iowa said. ?It was like they were running for sophomore class president.?

    Mr. Hall added, ?We couldn?t even get our own e-mail addresses,? for the campaign.

    Mr. Cain?s workers said basic supplies, like signs and bumper stickers, were hard to find. In many cases, they have to buy their own, said Donald L. Overman, a retired marketer who is a loyal volunteer for the campaign in New Hampshire.

    He thinks the campaign can do better. ?You can?t go out and buy bumper stickers,? he said.

    Management problems extended to important events. In July, a businessman and Tea Party supporter, Bill Hemrick, invited some 200 friends to the private Standard Club in Nashville to meet Mr. Cain. Mr. Hemrick said the Cain campaign had asked him to serve as its financial chairman for Tennessee.

    After speaking to the crowd, Mr. Cain was to attend a private club dinner for a select group of conservatives, who were in a position to donate the $2,500 maximum.

    But somehow Mr. Cain forgot, or his staff failed to follow through. After his speech, Mr. Cain called to thank Mr. Hemrick for the evening. ?I said, ?I?ll see you upstairs,? Mr. Hemrick recalled, where the potential donors had gathered. ?He said, ?Well, I?m at the airport.? ?

    ?I thought, wow, good communication there,? Mr. Hemrick said.

    Mr. Hemrick, a founder of the Upper Deck trading card company, said that shortly afterward, the Cain campaign named someone else as its Tennessee financial chairman ? which he first learned from his replacement.

    Mr. Hemrick, who is now a fund-raiser for Representative Michele Bachmann, likes Mr. Cain?s conservatism and bears him no hard feelings. But he is a bit mystified by the candidate?s lack of attention to detail. He also figures Mr. Cain left a pot of cash at the Standard Club.

    ?This is his first rodeo, so people make mistakes,? Mr. Hemrick said. ?But I wish he would have called and said ?Bill, I?m going in another direction.? But he never did.?

    As the months have passed and Mr. Cain has continued to rise in the polls, his attitude toward retail politics seems not to have changed much. ?He can?t be everywhere at once, but we are doing everything we can as best we can,? said Mr. Gordon, the spokesman.

    On a trip to Iowa last weekend to participate in the Faith and Freedom Forum, a meeting of evangelical conservatives, Mr. Cain stayed on his campaign bus until it was time to take the stage, while other candidates worked the crowds. Shortly after he finished speaking, he left the room.

    Trip Gabriel contributed reporting.
    A version of this article appeared in print on October 27, 2011, on page A19 of the New York edition with the headline: As Cain Promotes His Management Skills, Ex-Aides Tell of Campaign in Chaos.

  • avagreen

    Went back and looked at it. It was a parody, for sure. Early this a.m. with no coffee, yet….didn’t realize there were two.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …when I discussed the TPM…

    http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/10/27/right-now-its-the-message/#comment-137830

    …and noted the urgency that it become reactivated ASAP.

    It will be difficult to find any one 3rd-party candidate who would satisfy any discomfiture among independents, but this is all more the reason why the TPM’s interests must be satisfied by NOT nominating Mitt.

    Remember, the ONE TEA Party he attended was picketed; he has not reached-out to this hungry constituency.

    We learned already how lassitude can lead to a BHO, and we must not allow this conduct to be repeated [see: definition of "stupid"].

    Rick is authentic; he cannot be accused of any flip-flops. He is THE candidate of the TPM…and the sooner that fact is recognized, the better.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …but, as a pundit, he has accommodated himself excessively to the questioner [just as Cain did when he reacted to the N-stone issue by decrying any linkage with Perry on a national ticket].

    I testify in med-mal situations, and each-and-every-query must be scrutinized for its “leading” nature; vigilance is vital when, for example, parsing hypotheticals.

    This supercharge political environment is no different, but [as noted earlier] Rick need only rely confidently upon what he already has articulated in “Fed Up!” as he formulates replies to questions.

    He has a lot of “educating” to accomplish, far more than his competitors [and potentially far more beneficial to listeners who wish to receive a crash-course in federalism/ethics/responsibility/economics].

    The RedState audience is encouraging Rick to seize the moment!

  • conservative_dan

    To me, there is a certain amount of truth to the circular firing squad aspect of these way too many “debates”. I mean, really, isn’t a “debate” supposed entail two opposing viewpoints backing up their respective arguments with facts and logic? Is that what we see in these free-for-alls? If we wanted a tag-team Presidential race, we might as well look to the WWF for our candidate. I had gotten on the Cain train based on the last two debates, but I’m gravitating back to Perry. He has the solid conservative governing experience over a substantial period of time that the other candidates just cannot compete with. We’re going to need a firm leader with solid convictions like that to start to heal the country and get us back on the track to greatness. I just get a feeling from Perry that he really, authentically cares about this country and wants to do whatever is in his power to set us right again.

  • bzip

    Remind me – Perry will be on Fox Sunday with Chris this Sunday for the entire hour. Critics, supporters and people on the side line should try and watch the interview.

    From the interview I have seen with Perry he does an excellent job nothing like the debates,

  • libdestroyer

    yeah if only there was a PERFECT candidate… one like…like…

    RICK PERRY (angelic choirs singing)

  • libdestroyer

    will perry simply skip the debates against obama if he’s the nominee?

  • libdestroyer

    have you checked the polls lately?
    Cain is narrowly leading Romney in the polls, Like it or not (and I know you don’t) Cain is currently the Tea Party’s best chance at defeating Romney.

    Perry just needs to drop out, along with Bachman, Santorum and Ron Paul (who perry is tied with lol)

    Now cue the angry comments below:

  • libdestroyer

    Now HERE is someone with a brain!
    Like your candidate all you want but be willing to vote for whoever can beat Romney!

  • libdestroyer

    Perry is immune from any discussion of immigration.

  • acat

    Have you checked the bank account balances lately?

    Bachman and Santorum don’t look so good, and bluntly neither does Cain.

    Mew

  • libdestroyer

    is perry going to “skip” the debates against obama if he’s the nominee?

    HE NEEDS TO BE A BETTER DEBATER. Period. that’s why Perry is in single digits…

    Interviews are great (don’t get me wrong) but Ozero is slick on the debate stage.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    a movement is afoot [supported by Gov. Corbett] to allot Electoral College votes by assessment of victors in each Congressional disrrict [supplemented by two for the statewide winner]

  • acat

    Don’t be afraid, just make sure you bring some actual facts.

    Perry’s quite good on border issues. He used Texas tax dollars to set up a Texas Ranger naval (brown water) unit to do interdiction on the Rio Grande and Falcon Lake, as just one example.

    Mew

  • lineholder

    please read this

    http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/10/27/the-horserace-for-october-27-2011/#comment-137812

  • acat

    Couple things we like to call facts.

    Obama sucks when he’s off the teleprompter, or have you forgotten that McCain looked pretty good in their debates?

    Given the way Perry got under Mitt’s skin at the CNN debate, I’d be happy to see him tangle with Obama.

    Also, your Brad Majors routine is getting old.

    Mew

  • JSobieski

    Some peopel have positions and statements not backed by reality. It is easy to talk tough and say the right things when what you say doesn’t matter and you aren’t responsible for anything.

    An example of the “easy to sound good when you have no responsibility” phenomenon is Bachmann on the deficit. She is against raising the debt ceiling by even a penny, but she has no plan to cut spending that would actually result in no debt increase.

    In contrast, someone like Paul Ryan has specific plans to cut spending, but voted to approve the debt ceiling increase.

    Bachmann sounds better on the deficit than Paul Ryan does, but who is actually better on the issue?

    That analogy applies to Perry on immigration. Neither Cain, Perry, nor anyone else running the Republican nomination except Governor Johnson has had to deal with the realities of immigration. it is very easy for them to say a whole lot of things, but its all just talk.

    Where was Cain when Bush was pushing amnesty?
    Where was Romney when Bush was pushing amnesty?

    Become a more sophisticated consumer of political debate. If we reward the person who talks the best game but doesn’t have the actions to back it up, we are being stupid and deserve the negative outcome that will inevitably result.

    Personal disclaimers:
    1. I support Perry
    2. I have been critical of Perry on the tuition issue
    3. I have been highly critical of Perry’s campaign

  • Vaughn Harold

    nominee is lots of cash.

    I thought this was about ideology and leadership.

  • bzip

    From what I can see it appears that no experience and being likeable is only requirement – that is what I get from Cain folks.

  • acat

    Seriously.

    Mew

  • JSobieski

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAUS2JJib88

    So be critical of Perry for the issue, but be at least skeptical of whether what others are SAYING matches what they did or said in the past.

  • Vaughn Harold

    Sorry, but you don’t beat Obama’s snake like charisma with someone who can’t articulate his own vision for America without scripted videos and interviews. I don’t like Cain for the reasons you’ve stated elsewhere, but he connects with people. I’m even considering supporting Newt, but I would prefer to support Perry, if he can get his act together. Time will tell.

  • Vaughn Harold

    gets his act together.

  • gekster

    ..nt..

  • acat

    Do that. Just that.

    Mew

  • JSobieski

    It seems that Rubio supports what Perry did, yet Rubio is adored by the same people who despise Perry.

    I disagree with Perry on the issue, but I do find the lack of coherence on this issue by Republicans to be … interesting.

  • Vaughn Harold

    the Republican nominee. I can even find things to like about Romney.

  • gekster

    did you mispeak, or what.

  • iidvbii

    I have previously been of the mind that I would support the GOP nominee regardless as a vote against Obama. However over the last few months I have come to see that Romney shares so much in common with Obama I just cannot support him.
    Obomneycare
    Global warming
    Gun Control
    Gay marriage
    A chronic allergy to the truth

    It seems hypocritical to bash Obama and then vote Romney.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    [in the professional world of medical oncology]

    Your analysis provides a microcosm for Rick’s challenge; it’s a keeper!

  • JSobieski

    nt

  • acat

    I will now answer the question you asked above.

    It’s about a little of everything, ideology, experience, cash…

    It’s politics.

    Ideologically, I like Cain and Perry. Perry has the experience.

    Right now Perry’s down in the polls, and you and libdestroyer above seem ready to write him off but .. Perry’s got the cash to change the poll numbers and voting doesn’t start for a while yet.

    I’ve said before that it’s a race to see who steps on their {tongue} first. Whoever blows up their own campaign – and Cain’s come close – gets to be an also-ran while the other takes out Romney and goes on to challenge the Dem nominee.

    Unlike Cain, Perry’s got a $afety net. I see nothing new to change that view.

    Mew

  • westcoastpatriette

    on the complexities of the illegal immigration mess, their rigid stances on this issue will ease, I believe.

  • gekster

    …nt…

  • iidvbii

    If we are to judge the issues of the day by debate subjects and the content of attack ads then I would say you are exactly right. Seems odd that ever since Rick Perry entered the race the discussion has become anything but jobs and economics. I mean really we have huge multi page discussions on obamas birth certificate. Kinda tells ya how secure the other candidates and the fox led media are in their pick for our nominee.

  • acat

    Some people just don’t seem able to think beyond bumper stickers.

    Mew

    (for those not familiar, that’s a Dalek.

  • iidvbii

    I will stick with Rick (Perry that is) until the bitter miserable end…

  • iidvbii

    But as I understand it there are quite a few non televised events on the calendar. My opinion is that time would be better spent in Iowa, New Hampshire or South Carolina. You are right that he can’t let a major debate show a screen without him though.

  • westcoastpatriette

    Once I identify someone as a hate-only Dalek, I move on.

  • iidvbii

    my

  • uncmike

    It will be interesting to see how Newt does in the next couple of months.

  • Vaughn Harold

    n/t/

  • carolynr

    With a minute and one half to get a concept out…that hardly gives anyone the chance to answer anything correctly, let alone letting some misfit (Romney) put his hands on you. That being said…here is my two cents.

    Perry will debate. He will not pull out of the debates. However, please be aware that ALL of these debates, especially those of FOX have been “gotcha” questions to pitt one candidate against the other and not work towards the solutions. How many times did Newt comment on that…just about all the debates. Here you are Erick, a part of the MSM and you feed into this BS. This crap has become like the Roman Games…send out the person to the lions and let him get gored…while the American public cheers as they are put down and insulted. I want solutions…I don’t want the “games”.

    Here is a prime example of what happened JUST LAST NIGHT. That ))() Letterman announced he would have Perry on his program. I recorded it. Know what I saw this AM. I saw Letterman asking Perry questions and either Perry’s earpiece was not connected or he took pictures of him pre-recorded without any answers. So Letterman asked questions Perry blinked sometimes waiting for the interview to begin…which it didn’t and it made Perry appear as though he had no answers and was stupid. PEOPLE…HOW MUCH DO YOU LIKE CBS NOW? Do you think they have an agenda?

    If anyone thinks this is any different than what is going to happen on Fox News Sunday…you are mistaken. Wallace will come up with a “Flake” question again. What the heck is wrong with us…does the media want our country to fall…it will with the re-election of Obama. Hume, Huckabee, Rove will give their analysis of what is wrong with Perry…this doesn’t even take into account the left-wing people that extremely biased. Here we are, sheeples, following along with what Brit and Karl say because they are them. Well, does their opinion count more than yours. Your vote has as much impact as Karl Rove…that is unless he votes numerous times.

    I like Rick Perry…and quite frankly…this is the rumor. He’s supposed to be on the Sunday shows…let’s see what he has to say instead of listening to O’Reilly…who proudly calls himself an Independent…GUESS WHO HE IS VOTING FOR…DIPSTICK ROMNEY.

    Yes guys…I’m mad. Why wouldn’t I be. Our press has turned into OWS with ties on.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Gotcha.

  • retire05

    Last night I had Fox on (recently have quit watching it because they are so blatantly biased) only to hear Dick Morris sing Cain’s praises and how he just looooooves 9-9-9 (or is it 9-0-9?). I thought I would throw up when Brit Hume said that Romney wasn’t responsible for having illegals on his own personal property, as if as governor, Romney didn’t have the right to have his security (yes, all governor’s have security) check I.D.s so they know who is walking onto a sitting governor’s personal property.

    I am not a Bachmann fan, but thought Wallace was waaaay over line with the “flake” question. She is a sitting Congresswoman. Would he have asked that of John McCain? Or Paul Ryan? And when is the press going to descend on Cain’s home town, looking for rocks, or friends who he hung out with as a kid, or release Romney’s grades, or even examine his record as a governor?

    The left wing press decided they would Palinize Rick Perry from the start. Now that there is a movement to recruite Marco Rubio for VP, the MFM is going after Rubio, and doubling down on a false story. Did we not get enough of that when the press was trying to destroy Sarah Palin? Obviously not.

    These debates have been designed for nothing but fodder for Obama’s tv ads. The moderators have been horrible, asking stupid “gotcha” questions, and trying to create a food fight between the GOP candidates. If I were a candidate, I would contact all the other candidates and make a decision that until the debates are run in a respectful way, no more participation by any of them.

    I am done with watching debates. I know who my candidate is, I know his record, and I know the records (or lack of) of his opponents. If I want to watch a food fight, I’ll watch Animal House. At least it’s funny.

  • wearethevigilant

    The Paul crowd, of which I’m counted amongst, would not turn to back Romney. Personally if Ron Paul were not in the race I would most likely be backing Michelle Bachamann . I understand many here have profound disagreements with his foreign policy. Need I remind you that he did support Reagan’s SDI aka Star Wars agenda. Unlike Romney however, Dr. Paul can build a grand alliance to do what we all want done and to quote Michelle Bachamann, “Make Barack Obama a one term president.”

    To lineholder, The top 4 are Romney, Cain, Paul and Perry
    Romney is the furthest to the left and we must make sure doesn’t get the nominee.
    Them Perry and Cain with Paul at the furthest to the right. Newt is in 5th

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    Perry can clearly communicate, but we can’t overly-exaggerate his imperfections.

  • retire05

    that you place so much value on stupid debates that are not really debates, but just answers to a bunch of “gotcha” questions.

    Are we now to pick a president because he can be the captain of the debate team? If so, it tells you how far we have fallen as a nation. It tells you how much better off we were when candidates were chosen by the words they wrote, not by the way they said those words.

    You would have been one of those who voted against Thomas Jefferson, and deemed him to not be very smart because of his speaking abilities. Yet, most recognize that Jefferson was one of our greatest presidents and gave us one of the most two valuable documents in the history of mankind.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    .no.text.

  • explodinghead

    As I see it, the feuding between Conservative supporters of (insert name here) can only lead to Romney as our nominee. I was initially a Michele bachmann supporter, but changed to Perry after she imploded on the Gardasil issue. I gave Cain a hard look because I really liked the guy, he seemd charming and charismatic and then I looked at his policies, his lack of experience and his refusal to choose Perry as his VP coupled with his support of Romney and II stuck with Perry.
    I think each corner has solidified behind “their” guy and the vast majority of Cainiacs will not change to Perry, even though Perry folks would hold their nose and vote for Cain rather than Romney.
    In the overall scheme of things, the fervor of Cainiacs is like the devotion to Obama in 2008. Tthey truly believe he will be the President, because of his failings, rather than, in spite of them.
    I am and have been a TEA party supporter, but this is another case of Sharon Angle. Don’t get me wrong, I sent her beaucoup cash and really wanted her to beat Harry Reid, but when push came to shove her inexperience killed her. The MSM will eat Cain for lunch and that is if he manages to beat Romney in the GOP primary (highly unlikely).

  • Scope

    and excellent advice re don’t let the media, and those who make a living making news, rather than reporting news, choose our next candidate. If a study was done, I think the most popular job right now is that of “political pundit/commentator/analyst. They are becoming a dime a dozen, and not one of them is worth even a dime. Yes, carolyn, I am as mad as you are. We know better than to fall for this garbage, but it is still happening everywhere.

  • Scope

    listened to anything Perry has had to say, other than on the debate stage. If how someone answers stupid, set up questions, by the Obama leftists, and the likes of Chris Wallace, in debates, the country is much worse off than what we currently have occupying the WH.

  • bzip

    I agree, kind of my feelings and what I have been saying.

    I mention in another thread the other day – haven’t we learned from our past. Didn’t the Bush days tell us we needed to be sure we had a true conservative.

    Didn’t 2008 Obama tell us we needed to pay attention to experience and not the likeable factor. Can’t we learn from our past.

    We lose if we win with Obama lite Romney, we lose if we have Obama likeable Cain. Have we lost sight of what we have fought so hard for.

    A true tested and proven conservative is out there and has shown through 10 years of service who he is and that he can do the job.

    True, Perry has a few flaws but who doesn’t and yes he has to meet us half way and improve in what he is lacking BUT don’t you think we should at least meet Perry half way as well and give him a chance.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    What if I told you I haven’t seen a single debate? Naw….that would ruin your narrative.

    In any case, I’m not the one you have to convince. I’ve voted for the Republican candidate for President in every election since 1983.

  • westbrook348

    hope PA succeeds, and more states go for it as well. don’t see it happening in CA in my lifetime – the state is a lost cause, & i have no desire to move back

  • westbrook348

    but he has to prove to voters on a national stage that he can vocalize/enunciate small goverment, free market views without sounding mentally deficient. Throughout the last half dozen debates, he has made George W. Bush look like a genius. I have a few qualms w/ Perry over policy, but I could at least support him if he got his act together. I can’t say the same for TARP supporters like Romney and Cain.

    What I do not want to see is a repeat of 2000-2008 where Bush acted like an idiot, promoted big goverment policies, ballooned the national debt, and gave conservatives a bad name, leading to the situation in 2008 where independents were so annoyed w/ the GOP that they elected a loser like Obama. They have since come to regret their votes, but the Republicans have given them very little be excited about.

    The 2010 election was supposed to be huge, and it did stop the insanity from accelerating, but the House has not been effective from the Tea Party’s point of view. The GOP has repeatedly passed budgets that continue the deficit spending, rolled over on the debt ceiling increase, and formed this farce of a commission.

    Perry’s problem is not his record; it’s his presentation and messaging. The way he’s debated, even the stutering failure of a president Obama might beat him. He has to prove that he can hold his own in a debate and speak with intelligence. Interrupting Romney in that last debate, like a little child, really turned me off. He may be a warrior for Tea Party ideals, but I’m just not sure he can be the spokesman or leader that we need on the national stage.

  • westbrook348

    Peter Schiff were running

  • tngal

    retire05′ you stated the debates are “just answers to a bunch of ?gotcha? questions” . TV allows us to not only hear a candidate but to pick up on a lot of nuances.

    How are the candidates sitting, or standing? Do they appear nervous, anxious or relaxed.

    Can they answer the question in the alloted time? If not how do they handle it.

    Do they “talk over” another candidate or the moderator? Does this occur frequently?

    Do they give an honest answer to the question no matter how uncomfortable the question may be , or do they merely bs until time is up.

    Does the candidate’s smile seem genuine or is it fake.

    How do they respond to a “bad” or biased moderator?

    Do they appear condescending to the moderator or other candidates?

    Does the candidate appear preoccupied while another candidate is answering a question.

    Do they speak clearly, too softly, too loudly? How often?

    Do I enjoy hearing the speaker? Would I like to have a non-political conversation with the speaker? Would I invite the speaker to my house? Would I trust him with my money or my daughter?
    —
    Reading a quote in a newspaper,mag or online only uses our eyes. With radio, its just listening. But with television we use both senses and our gut.

    Its like meeting a new person for the first time. You know if you’ve connected. If you don’t like the guy from sales on the third floor you didn’t make a connection. Something happened in the hallway or the cafeteria. Make sense? I know it sounds like warm/fuzzies but that’s how connections are made.

    The debate is needed for a connection. Not a two mintue read that some reporter typed up. Sure the reporter made a connection. But not me. And tv ads are fine, but scripted. Show me the real you.

  • Scope

    when he gives 30 second sound bites that have no substance at all whatsoever, but Cain smiles while he says absolutely nothing. Cain has yet to say much of anything, and can’t even get the most basic conservative views across, without have to go back and study up to get it right. Why do you think he is taking time out from the campaign trail? Even his own team has pulled the leash in because he is saying things to damage his own brand of conservatism, or has that become libertarianism?

  • tngal

    The subtle point you didn’t catch was that we garner MORE from a debate thatn just the words. Anybody can smile if they a little effort in it. Even YOU. The quesiton is, is that smile genuine.

    Bill Clinton never seemed genuine. He seemed too politiciany. I wouldn’t trust him with my money or my daughter.

    But I could always trust Fred. Sometimes George W, but never Gore. And truthfully, nobody trusts Obama. The gut is a hard taskmaster.

    Why would I waste time reading an article about sombody pushig their latest policy if I didn’t connect with them somehwere. Not jsut the easy places, like a 10 second shot on the nightly news.

    You don’t support Cain. Tell me, are you more likely to read an article titled…”Cain the greatest thing since sliced bread” or “Cain, look what he’s done now, how embarassing”. You and he never connected. You’re gonna read the latter. And proclaim the former a “distraction.” Or not read either about him. Why should I react differently to your candidate.

  • tngal

    So tired from long work day…too many typos in my wet-noodle slapping of scope. I even think I spelled Mr or Mrs Kewlisky’s name wrong here. Or Zabrinsky or whatever …Geeze. I need more something and it ain’t coffee.

  • Scope

    I expect you Cain guys to do a run on the rose colored glasses any day now. Get them before you have an added 9% national sales tax on them, in addition to your state sales tax. Make sure to also stock up on medicine and food before you have to but used food and medicine at the local Goodwill.

    Wet noodle lapping of Scope, that’s a classic.

    You also have no clue of what stories I would read first, because you have not been allowed to rent space in my brain. Thanks for responding though.

  • tngal

    Hah! I got one out without a typo. Yeah for me!

  • aesthete

    but what goodwills have you been to that serve “used” food and medicine?

  • gekster

    Read your comment title again.

    But kepe trying. ;)

  • tngal

    the problem is ice. I’m not using enought ice. Or the cups are too big.

    (I swear I proofread that) Thank you gekster for pointing out.

    See how civil we can be towards each other

    (everyone take notice how the cain and perry camps are playing nice)

  • Scope

    you can’t buy used food and medicines at the Goodwill, or anywhere for that matter. Therefore the 9% sales tax, applying to all “new” items would be taxed at 9%. Thank you for asking.

  • Scope

    and they would be bad tenants. I’m very selective.

  • Ausonius

    I will vote for either one, and have also noted how “touchy” some people are tonight! :)

    Perry/Cain or Cain Perry 2012: count me in! :)

  • tngal

    I enjoyed your response. (Loved the sig line where “..gratian was assassintated, Ausonius THREW UP….)

    My goodness if I just saw someone assassianted I’d throw up too. Can’t fault you for than man. No shame there. It’d creep me out)

  • Xasteius

    Um….smiles are only skin-deep?

    A person’s policies should be more representative of a person rather than their outward appearance?

    Nixon and Kennedy…..

  • tngal

    Outward appearance…part of it. Notice the things about outward actions.Not how they look but how they behave. How they “come across”. How they treat others. I want someone who listens to me. What good is joining a million other people people in a rally if the guy I want to talk to isn’t going to listen to me. We got that now.

    How foes he treat others? The moderator and other candidates. General behavior? Its an overall perception.

    Night All!

    If u think I spell words badly tonight on board you should see my texting. Looks like I’m cussing out everybody for no good reason whatsoever. Lots of %hey#lcanyus9ds… Big thumbs, little buttons.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    sweat it…one of my longtime sayings

  • intensity

    ,,.has never held a political office in his life

    …is getting a lot of criticism over and getting his 999 plan shredded to shreds

    …has absolutely not clue about foreign policy

    …has claimed to be conservative and then supports Romney

    …will definitely =2 Obama terms

    Cain is definitely not able

  • http://www.4cadventures.com windworker

    !