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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

The Herman Cain Campaign Is Stuck on Stupid

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  November 3rd, 2011 at 04:46 AM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

If I were allowed to use the word retarded these days, I’d use it to describe the Herman Cain campaign these days. But it is another word we’ve axed on the list for some legitimate reasons. Truth be told, I sometimes still use it and I think it might fit here.

Nonetheless, I’ll go with stupid.

The Cain Campaign has made it official. It believes the Rick Perry campaign is behind the allegations about the women. This is stupid, if not retarded, for a number of reasons, chief among them is that if the Cain campaign believes Curt Anderson is responsible (something Anderson denies even to the Politico, which would give the Politico reason to out him if it were him, and they have not done so), then the Cain campaign has known about these accusations since the campaign started and still bungled the response.

Bizarrely, by the end of the day, the Cain camp was not only blaming Rick Perry, but sources close to Cain were claiming the Democratic Mayor of Chicago, Rahm Emanuel, relayed the story to the Perry campaign, though somehow Curt Anderson is also involved. Huh?

More troubling, the Cain Campaign statement was sent out by its press secretary who himself has sexual harassment issues while at the Pentagon. Thus far, all we know about that is he bizarrely accused a female reporter of sexually harassing him.

Even more troubling, in blaming the Perry campaign with no more evidence than those blaming Romney have (several National Restaurant Association current or former executives are Romney supporters), the Cain campaign has managed to take a unified front in defense of him, divide it up, and come off looking like he’d be perfectly okay with Mitt Romney as the nominee so long as no one else but him could be the alternative.

A friend of mine tells me the Cain campaign thinks that so many have gone out on a limb defending Cain, claiming it was the Democrats, that now to save their own credibility these people will have to turn on Rick Perry and finish him off. I don’t see that actually happens. But think about the number of people who rushed to his defense, claimed only the Democrats would do such a thing, and now have Herman Cain claiming Rick Perry did it. Talk about putting these people in an awkward position.

As I have said, the Politico went to Cain with a nothingburger of a story and only ran it after Cain reacted badly to it. They knew by his reaction they had something, though they did not really know what they had. We know more now. We know the Politico went to Cain with a muddied story the campaign could not even respond to.

But it also seems clear the Cain campaign had no more evidence to go after Rick Perry than the Politico had in forming its story.

There is also the most troubling bit of the whole story. If we believe Herman Cain — that it was Curt Anderson who is now with Perry and that Herman Cain told Curt Anderson about it in 2003 — then we are left with two great puzzles, both of which are vastly more destructive to the Cain campaign than the original story.

First, how is it that the Herman Cain campaign knew this was coming since at least 2003 and had no plan in place to deal with it.

Second, in Herman Cain’s own words, Cain told Curt Anderson about it and said there was one woman who claimed Cain harassed her and it was dismissed. If that is so, why are we now on the third woman?

The Cain campaign seems stuck on stupid, should never have engaged in the blame game when everyone was defending him, and now is not only going to further harm his own credibility, but will potentially hurt the credibility of a lot of other good people when the women start speaking.

And they will start speaking.

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  • runningman

    When you bungle your response this badly, the actual facts no longer matter. HC has already been convicted in the court of public opinion, because he failed to get out in front ot this thing with a coherent defense. So now, who will be the next flavor of the month? As HC falls in the polls (which he almost certainly will now), who is the beneficiary? My guess is that Newt picks up a lot of those supporters.

  • josephine

    I don’t know who did what or who said what when..
    All I know is that someone attacked a man that is all around wholesome and would never attack someone in this way. Cain has a standard for himself that he follows. This totally knocked him off his feet and he is not used to dealing with trash-so he stumbled as I would have.
    NOW- IF WE KEEP THIS UP SO AS TO KEEP THE SENSATIONALISM GOING, WE ARE GOING TO MISS OUT ON A HERO.
    WE ARE GIVING THE MEDIA WHAT THEY WANT. IT IS OBVIOUS THAT HIS SUPPORTERS ARE BEHIND HIM AS HE RAISED A PRETTY GOOD AMOUNT IN 2 DAYS.
    I’m ready to go back to attacking BARACK HUSSEIN O’BAMA eme eme eme for his hatred of the US of A. whenever ya’ll think it’s time.
    We better get busy as Napolitano is on the move.

  • bzip

    This is a legitimate question to the Cain supporters:

    If this issue and scandal was Obama?s and not Cain?s what would be your response and thoughts?

    Just substitute Cain?s name for Obama?s name in this entire mess. Would you be giving Obama a free pass on all the various versions and changes in his story? Would you be giving Obama a free pass for finger pointing? Would you be giving Obama a free pass for out and out lies?

    If not, then why are you giving Cain free pass?

    Do we see a double standard and do we see the double standard in playing the race card?

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …from this Perry-supporter, who has blogged heavily elsewhere…
    http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/10/31/the-herman-cain-allegations/
    …is to note how advocates of key-candidates are acting predictably.

    Will try to act unpredictably as the issues are summarized but, overall, will conclude precisely what EE has found [including after he posted his interview of Perry].

    The implications of this type of decision-making from Cain are troubling; Can he really continue to claim self-praise on the ability to apply CEO-level judgment after all facts have been weighed–invoking trusted advisers–when he has acted so conclusively/aggressively based on obviously-circumstantial data?

  • CFPeterson

    Its giving me flashbacks of Ross Perot blaming George H. W. Bush for trying to ruin his daughters wedding and stuff, destroying his credibility.

  • bzip

    Another question for the Cain supporters:

    If Cain has no prior elected office experience and no record to look at don?t you think that this entire issue of the scandal is a legitimate way to see how Cain responds, his decision making and judgment?

    If so, don?t you think by now Cain has shown very poor judgment and decision making?

  • craigbardo

    Recoverable and in some respects understandable, though Erik’s account is muddled and simplistic. This, however, doesn’t accrue to the benefit of Perry who failed to demonstrate that he was serious, conservative or even awake.

  • Ausonius

    I opened up “My Profile” today and found 87 replies – most of them not on topic – to something I had written about the Cain Campaign’s bungling.

    Many are disappointed and angry, and rightly so: I wanted Cain to succeed also. But we need to be realistic and observe what is happening dispassionately: incompetence beyond belief is on display.

    Mr. Erickson is quite right, and the conclusion of the last days is becoming ever more inescapable: for some reason, Mr. Cain, even though he handled a large company, is demonstrating that he cannot handle the reins of a political campaign properly.

    In which case, how could we expect him to handle the multitude of horses in the federal government?

  • josephine

    It really is like a 3rd world country. Our leader is against us in a completely different way. As far as I can tell he despises us for who we are, for our founding fathers and who they were, for our different faiths, for our desire to live decently in a civilized society,for our need to develop our individual potential, for everything we are.
    The very idea that a man in a position such as his would say, “she is just a typical white person” is beyond belief. Did you catch it when he sat in the oval office and said,unscripted, “we can absorb another 9/11″. And all this “ordinary worker” talk, and this “average citizen” talk. Don’t you fall for it.
    I will wait until the present administration is out of office before I tell you what I think of that.
    Don’t you wonder what they are doing in DC while we are distracted.?
    They are attacking the very soul of our country and what props us up. They want all of us to be #occupy. They want to reduce us to trash and foulish people who have no moral standards. They have made a start.Only evil could want this. We better fight for our lives on this one. If he wins the office, we may be in for as long as he proclaims.
    This is the first time in my life time that I have thought these thoughts about an administration.

  • bzip

    Let me ask the Cain supporters another question:
    Who cares who leak the story is my premise:

    Don?t you think it is better that this issues come out prior to the general election rather than have a Oct surprise in 2012?

    Don?t you think Cain has shown was too many gaffes, way too many walking back statements in all corners of the election thus far, i.e GITMO flap, abortion flap, China syndrome flap, blacks are brainwashed flap.

    Is it not a legitimate question to ask anyone if Cain is ready for prime time and to be the next POTUS?

  • avagreen

    He’s proven to be an absolute failure in just about everything except flim-flamming:


    1. Nonsense; humbug.
    2. A deception; a swindle.

    and a pro at obscurantism.

  • AceInTX

    if Anderson is the Politico’s source…and Cain told him about the sexual harassment claim of one woman in 2003….why is it that Politico know about the second complaint since Anderson only knew about the first?

    Unless Cain told him about both complaints, (though Cain says he only told Anderson about the one)….which causes a bigger problem if Cain tries this tack since Cain is on record as knowing nothing about the second complaint/settlement.

    I mean…Come on? are these people serious? I am on record as despising Romney almost as much as McCain…and would do almost anything to see him defeated in the primaries…but I can’t square this circle….Cain has blown all credibility with me over this and the abortion idiocy he put us through last week…

    Which leaves me with the question

    In a choice between Romney and Cain…Which liar do I vote for?

    Do I go with the competent liar who at least makes sense when he’s lying…or the incompetent one who can’t even make sense when he is telling the truth let alone when he’s making it up on the fly

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    Can Cain really rely upon the time-tested posture of “attack the attacker”?

    Dick Morris, who endorsed Cain, has suffered problematic drops in credibility thereafter. He has “advised” Cain simply wait-out this crisis [last night on FNC], citing his interactions with Clinton under comparable circumstances [recall how he advocated for a guilty-party]; this contrasts with the fact that most candid pundits have advised that he push for all data to be exposed.

    Regardless of whether this approach is wise, he revealed overt bias yesterday when he continued to assert that Perry “imperiously” announced he would participate in no further debates. Listen @ the two-minute mark to his luncheon-commentary from yesterday [BTW, which ignores the transformation from 999 to 909].

    [http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/perry-v.-cain-tax-reform-v.-simplification-dick-morris-tv-lunch-alert/]

    As was just said by Perry’s adviser Curt Anderson on CNN, all you have is your credibility and all you should do is tell the truth. Morris has lost his and, by extension, Cain appears to have mirrored this fate.

  • http://www.BTWsociety.org racvt

    Your comment is something to consider.
    I read years ago that running for President is, ipso facto, proof that one is not qualified to be President. (You gotta be nuts to even try.)
    Yet, it’s also true that it is an unremitting test of the ability to organize, control, pace and act under the heaviest of pressures.
    Still wanting to give Cain the benefit of doubt. However, I’m moving closer to undecided.
    My sense is that, if you don’t know how to play dirty, it’s hard to envision others playing dirty with you… and thus are liable to be blindsided.

  • Ausonius

    Yes, it is the crux indeed!

    Our frustration is seen in the over 1,000 replies in the last days to Cain’s situation, with defenders hanging on, hoping that somehow this will still end decently.

    What we need to watch is that our frustration does not turn into an internecine feeding frenzy: if Cain tanks, then his supporters will need to move on to someone else, and I know that the alternatives are frustrating. Blaming and attacking other canddates’ supporters out of frustration will get us nowhere.

    The focus needs to be on the socialist, crytpo-communist evil in the current administration.

  • izoneguy

    You don’t – Rick Perry is the honest, conservative in this race.
    Vote for him with no regrets.

  • circlegranch

    and to Josephine, who wrote Cain would ‘never attack someone in this way’, please review Mr. Cain’s quick and short-sighted statement on the Rick Perry hunting camp rock. Without doing any investigative research or fact-finding, he used the opportunity to kick a guy when he was under attack. Now that a little bit of sunlight is being shown on his campaign, he’s crying foul and running to Fox, asking them to make the scary monster go away.

    Mr. Cain has now pulled yet another card in the political game: Victim Card. He is protraying himself as an innocent victim; that these stories are not true and he’s almost seeming to believe no settlement was made, no accusations were filed and instead, he’s being attacked because of his honor and popularity. This is becoming more sad by the minute. He actually seems to be losing touch with reality and that none of this ever happened and his adversaries are simply making this all up.

    Quin Hillyer at American Spectator breaks this down with rational, sensible factual information, just as EE has done. If these issues were harbored in the backgrounds of any of the other candidates, they’d all be getting the same vetting and exposure. Somehow I bet if these scandals were in the closet of Rick Perry, Herman Cain would be quick to note that a man with even the suggestion of that type of character flaw is not fit to be president.

    I’m not interested in voting in another Cry Baby in Chief. The buck stops with Cain on this. He should man up, stop the blame game, continue to deny the accusations and he’ll come out on the other side a better man that has earned more respect. Add into the fact that he’s been quick to take shots at others when they’re down completely discounts the holier than thou claim that he’s so humble and honorable he’d never dream of playing a little dirty politics when given the chance. He insulted Gov. Perry by flatly saying early on that he’d not support Perry as a nominee and he would not accept an invitation to serve as his VP. He made the mad dash to the mike’s to pull the racism card on Perry and anytime someone tries to get clarification about 999 or exactly what he meant in talking about abortion, the Federal Reserve and now his latest gaffe, not knowing that China has nukes, he gets all ruffled and defensive and uses that condescending tone of slowly repeating the question back to the person as if he needs to help this stupid idiot clean up their questioning and never dare to challenge him again.

    Mr. Cain does not have the demeanor to serve as president. We see what happens when someone with thin skin and a petulant, don’t dare blame me attitude gets into high office.

    He knew about this sex scandal stuff when he ran for Senate. It mattered then that he get it taken care of but for some reason, in running for the top job, its beneath him now to be asked a question about accusations, which happen to be growing in number. Back in ’04 he knew this situation could be a deal breaker. He was afraid of it then. He didn’t want it out and if it did get out, he wanted everybody on the same page with their response. Funny how that all got lost in the shuffle this time. There was something about this case back in ’04 that he didn’t want revealed. It didn’t go away; its back and he needs to stand up and start telling the truth and stop making up stuff as he goes along and having his memory lapse in and out of coherence.

    Thank God there’s EE and a few sane journalists that are able to separate blind emotion from facts on the ground.

  • darl444

    How could anyone believe that this would not come out during the campaign? Mr. Cain should have been prepared, and had his staff prepared, to answer with facts, not with “I don’t remember all the details.” And it doesn’t matter who leaked it to Politico, because no conservative candidate can hide an issue like this from the press.

    The campaign needs to look how Clinton handled Flowers, how Former California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger handled all the charges against him for “sexual harassment”, and the list goes on.

    Please don’t blame anyone for leaking this to the news, face up to the fact, own up to the fact, that it is our there. And certainly, don’t use the racial card. Charges like this have happened to all candidates of all races. This is a non-racial issue.

    It’s not the charges of sexual harassment that is at issue…it’s the way they have handled it that has me concerned.

    No what shall I do with the yard sign I ordered?

  • Vaughn Harold

    happens to your best bud, Perry, and the same questions will be asked of you by the very ones that seem to be your allies at the moment.

    There are only two candidates running that qualify for the prime time, Romney and Newt. Sorry, but Perry has already proven that he is just as inexperienced as Cain.

  • Vaughn Harold

    n.t.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …keep moving towards Perry.

    Watch the CNN interview of Anderson [which probably will appear within a few hours], who unabashedly praises Cain’s personality, notwithstanding a series of “inviting” queries which could easily have yielded a crack in this portrayal of a glowing persona.

    Then decide if this is the type of upstanding citizen you would want your POTUS to appoint to trusted positions, particularly compared with the campaign-chief chosen by Cain.

  • bzip

    It is amazing how I can NOT get a real answer to these real questions. More Perry bashing isn’t going to solve Cain’s problems.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …you are supporting two endorsers of the Individual Mandate.

    Vaughn, your diary is replete with ethics…
    http://www.redstate.com/harold_vaughn/
    …and, thus, one wonders why you would unabashedly predict that Perry will suffer [1]–a comparable fate, and/or [2]–react as poorly as Cain did, to any such challenge.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …I believe it will be interpretable as a “distress” sign.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …just received via e-mail:

    http://mail.verizon.com/webmail/driver?nimlet=showmessages&view=emails#mail_Emails_INBOX

    “The Herman Cain Iowa Fund”

  • bk

     

  • gator_hoo

    Put his two statements together and claim that the Republicans ran him out because he is black?

  • gator_hoo

    It already has happened to Perry, remember the rock? That story went away because the camp didn’t have five different explanations.

    I’m sorry that you obviously consider this gloating by Perry (and Mitt and Newt) supporters. For many of us, it is proof that Cain was not the perfect candidate people were holding him out to be.

  • joayn

    to revamp his campaign by doing interviews, etc. So why would the Perry camp leak the story to Politico so it could totally eclipse these interviews and appearances, not to mention any/all news? And they have been very, very good.

    Why would he go to all that effort then leak the Cain story? It makes no sense.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    Already “outed” is Dick Morris; it’s now painfully necessary to explore Rush/Hannity.

    Cain is advertising on Rush’s show, and Hannity has appeared on-stage with Cain episodically during the past decade. This would ordinarily suffice for those who are reflexly-tempted to attack the MSM/LSM for injecting racism into this kerfuffle.

    I would hope that those who are otherwise credible…particularly Rush…to confront what I haven’t heard during his discussions during this week; hasn’t he handled this poorly? What is the import of the forces-at-play that have prompted Cain to dissemble, then to lash-out, and to sidestep full disclosure throughout?

  • supergirl2911

    Please don’t direct me to dick Morris’s website. He looks fruity and days perry benefits from the lighting and advisors doing a commercial meanwhile he looks like a clown who had an aide bring him breakfast after wich he read from a TelePrompTer I really cannot watch him any more I watched the two minute mark my bad for falling for the choice tic heck it out. Ughh

  • edintexas

    “All I know is that someone attacked a man that is all around wholesome and would never attack someone in this way.”

    Unless, of course, that “someone” happened to be named Perry (or a member of his campaign)? I don’t know the facts, and until I do I’m not ready to ignore the allegations. If the allegations (now three) are baseless , then let’s find out and then we can ignore them. If they are proved to not be baseless, then Herman Cain is neither a Democrat, nor Slick Willie, and we’d better put our votes on another candidate.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …when one recalls his superb interview on FNC, this past Sunday.

  • edintexas

    “We’ll never know, because it would have been covered up better were it Obama -nt”

    That should be changed. Replace “Obama” with “a Democrat”.

  • BA Cyclone

    also disqualifies Rick Perry for many.

    The Perry campaign has often had all the grace of an uncut episode of Jersey Shore. Train wreck 101.

    Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

    Personally, I think the Cain campaign going after any other campaign is ridiculously stupid strategy. Only possilble save would be if they had proof, which is nearly impossible. As Erick has said, rather than letting this thing DIE it’s giving new life and direction to what should have died a natural death, and up to now looked to be adding to Cain’s support if you can believe it.

    Now it looks like they have fantastic aim, at their own foot.

  • BA Cyclone

    also disqualifies Rick Perry for many.

    The Perry campaign has often had all the grace of an uncut episode of Jersey Shore. Train wreck 101.

    Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

    Personally, I think the Cain campaign going after any other campaign is ridiculously stupid strategy. Only possilble save would be if they had proof, which is nearly impossible. As Erick has said, rather than letting this thing DIE it’s giving new life and direction to what should have died a natural death, and up to now looked to be adding to Cain’s support if you can believe it.

    Now it looks like they have fantastic aim, at their own foot.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …the descend of any credibility for Morris, sadly, because I attended a house-party in suburban-philly last year at which he [and his wife] were the speakers.

    Perhaps O’Reilly [and others @ FNC] will now need to think-twice about inviting him to continue to provide disinterested punditry.

  • supergirl2911

    The story on Cain six days ago was he was going to slow down and take some time to be reflective after he spent a week clarifying and reclarifying his position on abortion.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    I recently was reminded that Peter Falk [in Colombo] diagnosed by noting aberrations in established behavior. Applying that deeply-human level of observation to the three cable-news stations is fascinating, this-a.m.

    While FNC has been generally quiet and MSNBC has been unabashedly gloating, CNN has been less distracted by Greece and has relentlessly probed the innards of what transpired with Cain.

    Metaphorically, therefore, the most “telling” posts on this site will be provided [or, perhaps, will NOT be provided] by those who have established “records” [despite the fact that this RedState community is baseline-diverse].

    Thus far, EE hasn’t been discredited in the first 37 posts [this page didn't appear a few hours ago, despite the "blast" having arrived before 5 a.m.] and the Cain-folk have been rather mute…a harbinger?

  • edintexas

    I must be having a bad morning. The second of your two sentences utterly evades my ability to decipher what you are saying. Maybe I should have gone to the website and watched the video. Maybe then your comment would make sense to me. Or not.

    Can you not watch Morris, or Perry? Perry looks fruity and benefits from the lighting and advisors doing a commercial? Perry meanwhile looks like a clown, or Morris? Which one had an aide bring breakfast?

    I’m so confused!

  • gator_hoo

    Until AFTER Politico got the story. Even granting that they were probably in talks before that, no professional worth his salt would make those statements before he was hired, because if you are badmouthing your former bosses, they know you will be badmouthing them in the future.

  • supergirl2911

    Or heard about. Everyone is talking about Cain.

  • Common_Cents

    ?My first advice is what he hasn?t done, which is say nothing until you sit down with your lawyers and with the people who know the facts,? Gingrich said. ?You thoroughly and completely understand them and you go through a period where everybody asks you ? in your team ? every possible negative question so you thoroughly understand what will happen.?

    I think Newt is ready for any 20 yr old baggage crap that will be coming his way as he rises to the front runner.

  • thisisme7

    You reply to questions that you can’t answer. Here’s some advice, don’t reply if you can’t answer the questions!! You are not forced to response, so don’t! You’re making yourself look bad, really bad in fact!

    And you say Perry is inexperienced!?!?!?!?! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!! Oh yeah man, he’s been governor for 10 years of the most successful state in job creation and is back to pre-recession in revenue brought in with NO tax increases, among other pros. Man oh man, if that is inexperience… BRING ON THE ‘INEXPERIENCED’ PERRY!!!

  • jackdaniels11

    resignation if that were the case.

    We’ve been through the saga of harassment-based impeachment. It is too distracting for the country to have to sit through it.

    I would be demanding that Obama resign for the good of the country if three different women made credible allegations that he harassed them.

  • edintexas

    Perhaps an apt comparison. The response is certainly not confidence building.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …recognizing that a little insertion of punctuation could help.

    Read that sentence and drop the word “days” … and then eliminate pronouns.

    Noting that the thrust of the comment is to request not to view Morris, it reads:

    “Morris looks fruity [while] Perry benefits from the lighting and advisors doing a commercial; meanwhile, Morris looks like a clown who had an aide bring him breakfast after which he read from a TelePrompTer.”

    whadayathink?

  • supergirl2911

    It did relate to the video. You do not need to watch it in my opinion- something it seems like you already figured out, I can’t watch Morris any more. I was frustrated by my own choice to follow the link and get frustrated in the morning. My thoughts were poorly put forth in part due to laziness in part due to morning time and in part due to the autocorrect feature that I am depending on too heavily. Heck it out was supposed to read check it out. To return to the original point don’t bother.

  • edintexas

    - but Still a Threadjack

  • tngal

    Hard to be objective there b-zip as we, none of us on the R side, give Obama a “free pass” on anything. Comparing Herman to Obama is a bit rrraaaa….unchy bzip. Even for you. Trying to make this a compare/contrast post, just doesn’t hold water.

    But if you’re still fishing trying to find out if Hermain Cain still has supporters. Yes he does. Mainly because:

    a) the women (what are we up to now 64?) have accused him of nothing serious. There has been no lawsuit there was a severance package. Lawsuits actually require at least some basis in reality. Not much granted, but some. Saying things that make SOME women uncomfortable due to inuendo or gesture tells me more about the woman.

    b) He is not PC. He’s offended illegals, the establishment, OWS, and blacks. You’d be hard pressed to find a group he hasn’t made uncomfortable. Stands to reason he’s offended some women.

    c) There are operatives all over the place,in both the Romney and the Perry camps who could have leaked. Allahpundit even made a tie to Rham Emmanuel. The reason I believe its coming from the Perry camp is because Perry hired a boatload of new staff only a short while before this smear broke. At least 3 from Rick Scott’s campaign.

    In a story on Perry, politico (hmmm coincidence much?)
    says:
    _____
    “The Scott campaign was among the most searingly negative ? and effective ? message machines of the 2010 cycle”

    “Fabrizio, Anderson and Warfield are all veterans of the Bob Dole 1996 campaign with Perry top strategist Dave Carney ? who is no stranger to hardball tactics himself..”

    ?Perry won?t just go negative. He?ll make your television bleed and beg for mercy.?
    _____

    The timing of adding these new advisors and the sudden appearance of decade old allegations raises an eyebrow with me. The story was taken from the slant that Perry was going after Romney. Why??? Romney has stayed at 20-25 popularity.

    Be honest, this year its Anybody But Mitt. Do you disagree?? Perry planned on just him and Mittens, and then getting all the ABM support. But even if he got all the third tier’s support he still wouldn’t be top tier. He has to take out the one with the most popularity.

    The meme from all quarters for over a month was that Cain would disappear because he had no experience, and he always says things that get him in hot water with somebody. But he hasn’t disappeared. In fact, he had the audacity to get more popular.

    I personally don’t know who leaked it, but the timing does give one pause for thought. At least with me. And yeah, I’m still on the Cain Train.

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/66768.html#ixzz1ce3A5LBj

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …however, is that he still supports the Individual Mandate.

    This carries implications regarding my view that he is an elitist/statist.

  • Vaughn Harold

    out by EE. Your question is not legitimate because all you’ve done is try to prop up your guy by going around Redstate posting dozens and dozens of posts at nauseam about how inexperienced Cain is. Perry’s getting a free ride right now with Cain being the current front runner, which is lucky for Perry because his out of the gate performance was a disaster and his poll numbers barely have a heart beat except for the few cult followers here at Redstate such as yourself.

  • defenseconservative

    Your claim is a blatant lie.

  • Common_Cents

    This whole mess has got to impair Cain’s ability to debate Gingrich Sat night.

    “The C-SPAN network has just informed us here at Investor’s Business Daily that it will, indeed, broadcast the entire Cain-Gingrich Lincoln-Douglas debate nationally Saturday evening on its main channel, plus C-SPAN Radio and live-stream it at c-span.org. Starting time is 5 p.m. Pacific, 8 p.m. Eastern. “

  • bzip

    Thanks tngal for proving my point. You impose a double standard, just because of the party affiliation.

    There is no need to “Comparing Herman to Obama” BUT simple replace the names in the story – that isn’t a comparison, its a substitution.

    You have made yourself very clear using a double standard, hypocrite argument.

    Thanks for playing

  • doncorleone

    Never count out team clinton. Billy’s the 2nd worst president, we’ve had to endure, a bolshevik just like our worst and current “president”. But, he and his cadre are unrivaled at the political game. Cain should’ve waited to see how this and who shakes out. Billy and barry’s relationship on the surface is rocky, but you can’t fit a razor blade inbetween them ideologically. The whole lot of them make alot of money at their “work”, and have the same sugardaddies/mommies. Billary makes j. edgar hoover look like an amateur, in the info/gathering, retrieval, utilization game. I think Cain can survive this, unfortunately, as romney’s veep.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Somehow I think you weren’t being truthful with us.

  • aggie91

    by the likes of Rove and Co. The N*****Rock story is about all they have, which was pathetic to say the least. Things got pretty nasty in his last election but nothing really stuck. It is my opinion that Perry is about the only candidate left that can survive the MSM and the Obama machine in the general. Everyone else has far too much baggage or a complete inability to damage control.

  • defenseconservative

    for many reasons, not the least of which is because he’s an opponent of a strong defense, just like his buddy Tom Coburn.

    He?s a proponent of deep defense cuts on top of those already administered and ordered. Specifically, he has endorsed Sen. Coburn?s ?Back in Black? plan, which would cut defense by $1.006 trillion over a decade (i.e. over $100 bn per year), and include the following budgetary-motivated cuts:

    - cutting the ICBM fleet from 500 to 300 (while Russia is adding delivery systems)
    - cutting the SSBN from from 14 to 11 subs
    - delay plans to develop and deploy a next generation bomber type (which has already been delayed for far too long and was identified as a requirement as early as 2006)
    - cancel the Marine and Navy variants of the F-35 and replace the Marine variant with nothing;
    - drastically cut orders for survivable, combat-proven V-22 rotorcraft;
    - and many other destructive cuts.

    The proof: http://www.youtube.com/user/RickPerryPresident#p/u/4/4iE1L35K2aI (begins at ca. 13:30)

  • edintexas

    Some real common sense injected into this mess. I was really hoping Cain would be an excellent choice to settle on, inexperience notwithstanding.

    I’ll be danged if I’ll go with Romney. Huntsman is utterly anathema to me. Santorum has the right positions (pun intended), but has as much charisma as a dirt clod (important to getting elected, no reflection on his ability to serve). Newt has strayed too far (the GW “couch” commercial, healthcare, NY-23, Delaware Senate, and [IIRC] Charlie Crist). Perry has problems with the (so-called) debate format. Johnson isn’t as far into Libertarianism as Ron, but neither is about to be nominated, much less elected. Michelle has essentially killed her own campaign through speaking when it would be appropriate to keep quiet.

    I’ll admit to leaning for Perry. He’s a good campaigner in person, but that isn’t how we elect Presidents these days. As for the viral video, even the Dallas Morning News (no Republican favorite in the past 3 decades) wrote that Perry was not drunk and was just showing his well known (in Texas political circles) whimsical self. So I’m open and willing to be convinced. I just don’t see many viable alternatives – and that worries me no end. Time is getting short and we need to get to work on a campaign to unseat Dear Leader.

  • Vaughn Harold

    Would you give him a pass or would you keep on deflecting how poorly your guy is doing by continuing to focus on the flaws of the other candidates? Oh wait, that is what your doing.

  • Bill S

    .

  • edintexas

    “The campaign needs to look how Clinton handled Flowers, how Former California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger handled all the charges against him for ?sexual harassment?, and the list goes on.”

    So you are suggesting that the allegations are true and that Cain should just deny and designate a staffer to handle “bimbo eruptions”?

    I don’t think that is what Conservatives want, no matter how much we wish to change the occupant of the Oval Office. YMMV.

  • Vaughn Harold

    current list was Cain/Perry/Newt/Romney. I’m waiting for the next debate to see if Perry can improve. Until then I’m strongly considering Newt with all the stupid that Cain seems intent on doing.

  • westcoastpatriette

    I share some of the disappointment his supporters must be feeling right now.

    And what’s happening and how Cain is dealing with it is the perfect example of why being a successful businessman does not necessarily equate with being a successful office holder.

    In the business world, the bottom line is can you turn a profit? If you are successful with that, all kinds of other indiscretions will be overlooked or hardly worth worrying about.

    Even if the accusations turn out to be completely unfounded, pointing fingers at Perry without any proof is alarming. I don’t see how he can survive all of this as the pressure is not going to ease up. And I am not happy about it other than being glad it is happening now rather than later.

  • bzip

    You, Vaughn, are having a very difficult time dealing with Cain and the questions directed about Cain. More Perry bashing doesn’t solve your problem or Cain’s problem – but thanks for playing along.

  • Vaughn Harold

    How is that giving him a free pass?

  • libdestroyer

    I’m not disappointed at all. Cain is being attacked and it’s obvious; not only by leftist media outlets like Politico, but by RedState for Pete’s sake! Cain continues to do well in both national and state polls and it’s eating you Perry people alive!

    Erick I listened to you last night. That will be the last time. I’ll just get my political analysis elsewhere, as your bias has become quite obvious.

  • tngal

    Bzip’s just trying to stir the water. Why the comparison with O? Why not with Clinton? Or Kennedy? Also notice the ” Stop Bashing Perry”in the header. My goodness, someone took a whiz in his cheerios this morning and he’s none to happy about it.

    Its ok to bash Herman Cain, you see. But heaven forbid we actually point out why we don’t like his goofy candidate. He’s spent so much energy screaming “my candidate’s not a birther”, “my candidate’s not drunk” “he speaks better at rally’s” “he’s not a crony”, yada yada. Doesn’t matter if the accusations are false, they are fuel for the net gristmill.
    For all of Herman’s “gaffes” that these individuals are quick to point to..Perry makes just as many.

    Seems to me another campaign may be stuck on stupid.

  • Vaughn Harold

    a Perry supporter is going to reign in bzip for all the unnecessary posts that he/she keeps putting up over and over and over about the same stupid Cain is inexperienced garbage. This normally isn’t tolerated at Redstate.

  • Bill S

    As I tell my wife, I don’t read minds, but the use of the phrase “is a bit rrraaaa?.unchy” could be construed as a veiled accusation of “rraaaa..cism”. Don’t even think about doing that, if you want to stay here.

  • Aaron Gardner

    And if you have a problem with moderation, then hit the contact form and make your case.

  • Vaughn Harold

    I’m not giving Cain a free pass on this, nor will I give Perry a free pass for being overwhelmingly unprepared.

  • bzip

    Okay tngal, “someone took a whiz in his cheerios this morning and he?s none to happy about it. ”

    Thanks so much, I just needed that one. Good to know you have a sense of humor.

    Cheerio

  • Vaughn Harold

    a problem of it being repeated at nauseam by the same individual that is adding nothing to the discussions here.

    I don’t play the contact game. I expect people within their own camps to keep this place the way it’s supposed to be.

  • edintexas

    Apparently Cain knew about this well before it came out. One commenter says it was something which came up in a (2004?) Senate Campaign. I don’t know that to be true, but it obviously is true that Cain knew about it before it came out. The time to follow Newt’s advice has long passed and it is too late now to be consulting attorneys and fact finding.

  • Finrod

    For someone who bashes Cain every chance he gets, you’ve got a lot of gall whining like a stuck pig about Perry-bashing.

    Pot, kettle, black.

  • Aaron Gardner

    BTW, why is it ok for you to post ad nauseam that Perry is a bad debater but for bzip to post that Cain is inexperienced is just too much?

    Get over it.

  • edintexas

    Newt was for it before he was against it. Or was that he was against it before he was for a variation of it, before he was against it again?

    At least we know he was for what he called a variation of the individual mandate before stating unequivocally that he was against an individual mandate – and those two statements were on the same day.

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Newt+Gingrich+and+the+individual+mandate&mid=A3FA86F108F43019111EA3FA86F108F43019111E&view=detail&FORM=VIRE5

  • bzip

    It is amazing. No matter how differently I word things or how I ask I can not get a answer to these questions concerning Cain.

    I get Perry bashing, I get bashed myself but I can’t get a real answer to these questions concerning Cain.

    Just why is that? Maybe the questions ar too hard for you folks?

  • wacowboy

    Cain was almost always my #2. I flirted with making him #1 at some point.

    “we need to be realisitc and observe what is happening dispassionately”

    emotions run high. I get it. but don’t forget about reason and logic.

    well reasoned post.

  • Vaughn Harold

    that I made about Perry’s performance to what bzip has been doing. My only purpose was to get the Perrybots to wake up to the fact that their condidate has serious flaws to overcome just like any other candidate. I never was giddy about it. My goal was for Perry to improve, not be destroyed. I’ve always stated that Cain’s mouth needed to be controlled or he would be toast.

  • Bill S

    “If this issue and scandal was Obama?s and not Cain?s what would be your response and thoughts?”

    Now you obviously don’t have to answer it, but since you seem to see it necessary to respond with anti-Perry blatherings, it seems only fair that you also address the question.

  • edintexas

    There’s always MSNBC.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Let’s not act like you’ve been some above the fray angel here, ok?

  • goformitt

    While I don’t have anything against Perry’s politics (except maybe giving illegals in-state tuition!) but I have to ask a serious question about his mental health.

    Before you Perry supporters jump all over me, just think about it for a second:

    Perry was nothing short of dazed and confused in front of millions of viewers at the debates. You can try to explain that away, but many of us knew then and there we could not support someone with an obvious intellectual – or possibly emotional – deficit.

    I don’t know what was wrong with him, but something clearly was.

    Compound that with his performance in NH and we have a non-player. I got a lot of flack earlier for saying he was drunk, but truth is, that was a generous explanation. If he wasn’t drunk or high then he was exhibiting some other mental condition that makes him even less qualified for the job.

    In my humble opinion, there is something seriously wrong with Perry’s mental state.

  • clintonformccain

    As I have said, the Politico went to Cain with a nothingburger of a story and only ran it after Cain reacted badly to it. They knew by his reaction they had something, though they did not really know what they had. We know more now. We know the Politico went to Cain with a muddied story the campaign could not even respond to.

    We only “know” that because the Cain campaign said so. It is become painfully obvious that the Cain campaign lies and that there is little reason to attribute accuracy to any of their statements.

  • retire05

    If the Morning News is defending Perry against the “drunk” charges, the charges can now be labeled patently absurd. This may be the first time in a decade that the Morning News has had anything good to say about Perry, or for any Republican, for that matter.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …for, after I checked-out “santorum”…
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=santorum
    …I concurred generally with your overview.

    Perry is obviously up for multiple interviews and has released commercials in Iowa; let’s see how it shakes-out [particularly after Cain has been shaken-out].

  • bzip

    I know its hard to believe but there is hope that the media will see the light :-) .

    New Hampshire Republicans to defend Perry speech
    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/02/new-hampshire-republicans-to-defend-perry-speech/

  • Vaughn Harold

    I would respond the same as I would if it where Perry. I would wait till all the facts where out, and then weight the facts in relationship to the positives of the candidate.

  • retire05

    The in-state tuition was passed by a veto proof legislature. How many times do you have to be told that?

    And by your statements, I can only assume you have never heard Rick Perry speak in person. While you claim he was “exhibiting some other mental condition” you also have to claim that the entire audience was not aware of it since Perry got a standing ovation in NH.

    Rick Perry is often relaxed in front of a crowd that he knows wants ot hear what he has to say, whether they agree with him or not. You are trying to judge Rick Perry against the Ken Doll who always looks uncomfortable in front of a crowd, even with his rolled up sleeves. And you ignore that one of Sarah Palin’s traits that attracted so many followers was her ability to appear relaxed in front of the crowds.

    While you bash Perry for what the Texas legislature did, do you also want to talk about the hiring of illegals by Romney will he was still governor, or do you really accept that, as governor, he had no control over who was working on his own personal property?

  • snappy101

    Hasn’t Herman Cain been treated with kid gloves since he began his run for President? I blame this on the media who are not used to asking questions of a non-traditional candidate. We should know his job history not just for whom he worked. Why did he leave one job for the next one? (Promotion, more money, new challenge, incompetence, scandal, asked to leave, couldn’t meet salary demands, etc.) Aren’t we all asked that question when we apply for a new job? Why don’t we know exactly what he did well or badly in his assorted jobs? We scrutinize the governors/former governors/other politicians that way, why not the businessman?

    The veracity of the leak is not in question. Only the veracity of the women’s allegations are in question. Cain is now reminding me of my ex-husband: the “It’s everybody’s fault but mine” deflection tactic. I don’t like it. It makes him look guilty even if he’s not.

    He should have taken control of this issue from the get-go and released and controlled the message himself. If this came out during the general election, instead of now, YIKES!

  • tngal

    I’M A CAIN SUPPORTER!!!. That’s our motto.

  • Vaughn Harold

    is tolerated at Redstate to help prop up Perry.

    For some reason I thought this site was for support of Republican candidates, I suppose for the time being I will accept that it is now Perrystate with the sole purpose of promoting Perry and destroying all other candidates.

  • Bill S

    While I sympathize with you in that those who are defending Cain aren’t answering your questions, you do not get to keep spamming the comment threads with them. Time to move along to another line of discussion. Do not repeat this any more. M’kay?

  • Aaron Gardner

    Clearly you’d rather it be CainState or some such.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    Remember, during the last debate, he quibbled with Mitt regarding whether he had endorsed the posture of the Heritage Foundation…which had endorsed the Individual Mandate…vs. whether he had himself articulated this position [allegedly, to contrast with HillaryCare].

    What emerged was NOT a denial of his initial posture, regardless of whether it was mediated through another entity.

    I bought two of his books [including "Real Change"], and I quote from page 116 of “Winning the Future”:

    #4. You have the right to be part of the lowest-cost insurance pool and YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO BUY INSURANCE.”

    DEFENSECONSERVATIVE, you are cordially invited to rescind your prior comment, along with the motivation to have typed it.

  • radicalrighty

    I can’t forgive him for that.

  • Vaughn Harold

    n..t..

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    after he outlives/d his usefulness, Cain would fall below Hillary in the pecking-order.

  • Bill S

    but I’ll take it as meaning the same no matter who the candidate is.

    Answer received. Thank you.

  • tyman

    He got in the race after everyone else, yet he raised more money than anyone else…in half a quarter. So, he has funds and a national network.

    I think his debate performances were a mixture of back surgery recovery and all of the candidates bashed him at once (remember how boring the debates were before Perry got in? it was like one big GOP love fest).

    If you’ve paid attention to Perry’s recent speeches, ads and interviews, he’s really stepped up his game. And he’s saying things that only a real conservative would say.

    BTW, he’s the only candidate that currently has a day job (Michele Bachmann, I believe, missed every single House vote in August).

    If Perry was unprepared for anything, it was the fact that his fellow Republicans would bash him like they have (yes, I know it’s politics and not hopscotch). Cain singling Perry out was just uncalled for, for instance.

    Mitt Romney’s only job has been running for president for the last 6 years, so he ought to have it down.

    Herbcain had so many missteps in the early days of his campaign, or does anybody remember? I do, because I supported Cain when he first got in, but realized that HE was overwhelmingly unprepared.

    Newt’s staff left him because they felt that he wasn’t totally committed. Apparently they thought he wasn’t prepared.

    Ditto for Bachmann.

    Santorum will not be the nominee, so it doesn’t matter.

    Ron Paul? Not prepared either, and based on his answers about the border and foreign policy he’s unqualified.

    Huntsman? Doesn’t matter anyway, since he won’t be the nominee.

    I’d just like to see why you think Perry is any LESS prepared than the other candidates.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Once you start advocating for one side, as you did last night and you are doing now, to be shut out of the conversation, that changes.

    Now, for the last time, if you have a problem with moderation, follow the rules and hit the contact form.

  • Tbone

    VW bug?

  • redmymind

    In Cain’s mind, “a crisis is a terrible thing to let go to waste.” Might as well use this scandel as cover to finish off Perry, whom he correctly assesses is his biggest threat in the race.

    It’s not the first time Cain has kicked a man when he was down. Remember the “N” rock controversy? Cain was the first to take a swing without evening caring about getting all the facts.

    There’s a definite pattern here. Or as we say out here on the Left Coast, the fault lines are quite visible. Cain has a pattern of wanting to trash Perry so that he can emerge as the only viable non-Romney.

    He does a good job of playing the victim when he messes up. Let’s see how good he is about giving equal air-time to those who are coming out claiming to be HIS victims.

  • radicalrighty

    Lord knows what would happen is somebody ran this ad: “Have You Been Propositioned By Herman Cain?”

    The $$ would probably run out fast . . .

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …because you did not include a key-disclaimer that introduces this discussion…characterizing these as “OPTIONS.”

    http://coburn.senate.gov/public//index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=92a11aeb-a484-45d4-b02a-83071603accf[]

    Some of the options listed here, especially those dealing with the overall size of our military, will be hotly debated. However, we would hope each proposal would be debated on its merits. As an example, an option to reduce the number of aircraft carriers from eleven to ten is not equivalent to an option of permanently decommissioning every single aircraft carrier in the Navy?s fleet.

    It should also be noted what is not included in these proposals. Under this plan, the Army will return to its pre-war size but not be cut further. The Navy will remain nearly the same size as will the Air Force as measured in total number of ships and combat wings. Key modernization programs, even the Joint Strike Fighter, will continue. Procurement of ships such as the Virginia class submarine and the USS Gerald Ford, the newest aircraft carrier, will continue as well. The nation?s nuclear deterrent will remain robust. Pay levels will not be cut or frozen for active duty military service members. In fact if the option regarding defense commissaries and post exchanges is adopted, active duty military pay will increase.

    While the options below represent $1 trillion in savings, the reduced spending from these options listed below would put the Pentagon back on the level of annual funding it had just five years ago at the height of the Iraq surge.

  • radicalrighty

    .

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …because, just as you cited this proposal out of context, you wrongly attacked my credibility infra.

    THEREFORE, you MUST reply affirmatively to these concerns, or withdraw them.

  • gracepmc

    has been that this will be a tough, mud slinging campaign — and apparently, even before Obama goes head to head with the Republican candidate. I respected Herman Cain right up to the point when he started playing the race card, the victim card, and shot the first volley in the circular firing squad (Perry gets points for his response but not for perpetuating this farce onto Romney, if that in fact is so). Following the Perry/Romney schoolyard fight at the debates, this is not helpful. I expect more from the candidates and it is about time they got serious. If we look around the country we can pretty much tell what Obama and the Democrats will do to hold onto power and sink this country. No matter the source, the reason, or veracity this is down and dirty politics and Cain doesn’t look like a contender. Unfortunate.

  • ceili_dancer

    fires raging across his state during the first debate? Also, at that time he just got into the race and was not probably up to speed. While your candidate has been drilled to the Nth degree on debate answers and obfuscation for the last 6 years, since he has been unemployed in that time. Still, during those debates he just sat back and ducked his head as everyone else piled on whomever was the next in line rival. Now that Perry is better prepped and can see how the field is, you will see a more engaged Perry, not sure if you will see the “angry” Perry or the more loose Perry from Cornerstone, but you will see him much more engaged than the first few debates.
    Nothing wrong with his state of mental health to paraphrase the Men at Work song.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    From the perry-perspective, what you recall as the schoolyard fight was important because (1)–Rick was correct, and (2)–Rick had to come-out swinging. The second point is judgmental, perhaps, but I documented the first one elsewhere on RedState, reprinted:

    *
    a contemporaneous CNN Video documents hypocrisy:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLVL_8wKjdY

    Listen @ the 2:00 mark, when Mitt endorses amnesty.

    *

    The Boston Globe has published an update of its two contemporaneous/relevant pieces [which appeared one year apart and cite his ?you?re fired!? letter]:

    http://www.boston.com/Boston/politicalintelligence/2011/10/fact-check-the-story-behind-the-accusation-that-mitt-romney-knew-had-hired-illegal-immigrants/P8deMLtSoAMK7kZ7FnAj2I/index.html?camp=obnetwork

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/politics/candidates/articles/2006/12/01/illegal_immigrants_toiled_for_governor/

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2007/12/romneys_stateme.html

    *

    The overview-piece was based on the debate-quotes, but perhaps-purposefully drew no conclusions.

    The first piece quoted the owner of the landscaping company thusly: ?Saenz said Romney never asked him if his workers are legal immigrants?.Saenz said he had never requested any proof from his employees to show they are here legally. ?I don?t need to tell them to show me documents?.I know who they are, and they are legal.? ? And, in contrast with the claim that Rick is flawed for not supporting a 2000-mile fence, Romney also was quoted as having adopted a comparable stance: ?Romney supports construction of a new 700-mile fence along the country?s border with Mexico and stationing National Guard troops at the border until it is finished.?

    The second piece quoted Mitt thusly: ?Romney said then that he had met with the company owner in 2006, after the first incident, and instructed the company to make sure the people working for them were of legal status. Romney said the owner guaranteed that the company would comply with the law going forward. ?After this same issue arose last year, I gave the company a second chance with very specific conditions. They were instructed to make sure people working for the company were of legal status. We personally met with the company in order to inform them about the importance of this matter. The owner of the company guaranteed us, in very certain terms, that the company would be in total compliance with the law going forward.? ?

    The third piece provides a starting-point of any cogent analysis; review the text of the letter Mitt wrote when he finally ?fired? the company that had hired the Illegals. The key question that follows, therefore, is whether comparable documentation exists?from a year prior?when he says he had warned the company against this practice [??the clear instructions provided on this issue last year??]; the follow-up question that follows is why he had initially ?given them another chance? rather than having invoked the Reaganesque ?trust but verify? approach, taking active steps to ensure it had complied with his demand.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …albeit long-overdue, is this onslaught from ABC-News, just today:

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/11/herman-cain-campaigns-new-message-look-the-other-way-the-note/

    People ask that we substitute our favorite individual for the one under the kleig-lights; mark me down for disavowing Perry if he ever were to emulate the conduct Cain has exhibited throughout this campaign, particularly when he apparently has championed his admitted-ignorance of foreign policy.

  • Vaughn Harold

    the conversation, but what’s been going on on Redstate is not conversation, it’s a firing squad against anyone not Perry. I’ve only asked that repetitive comments by the same individual be delt with, and Bill S has done that.

    In reference to last night, my comments where in response to one poster flat out calling another poster a drunk. That’s not respectful, and it has the appearance that it was only tolerated because the poster was a Perry supporter.

    I’ve said my peace, I’ll now fade into the background noise of all the infighting.

  • Vaughn Harold

    -nt-

  • westcoastpatriette

    I just stated clearly that I am disappointed and not happy about all that’s happening to Cain right now. And your response is that Cain is being attacked by me, RedState and Erick because, as Perry supporters, it is eating us alive that Cain is ahead.

    What about how Cain is handling this? How do you justify Cain publicly accusing Perry of leaking this story without any evidence? Or his many inconsistent statements?

    You sound like a Cain-bot. Bots are unable to accurately critique their candidate or face any of their flaws realistically. This makes them unable to debate effectively as all that is left is to attack the messenger. Not a good strategy–makes you look weak like Cain right now.

  • gracepmc

    However, I was taking issue with the “style”, “manner”, “conduct”. This is a super important election to me, and while I am all for substance,verification and the importance of standing your ground as well as standing out, response command and control is always appreciated. In the back of my mind, I am asking myself how does this relate to this person standing up to Obama and performing as Chief Executive. Not relative to Perry or anyone specific here, but when the candidate is facing the haughty and glacial Obama backed by lap dog media and “the street”, passion or intensity can often be mistaken for or represented as hysteria — rightly or wrongly. I’m going with whoever can win the fight.

  • Aaron Gardner

    It is one of the stated posting rules for RedState.

  • annplato

    of Mr. Cain: who benefited greatest from the bungled debate performance of Rick Perry? Mr. Cain! Whose campaign hired two weeks ago a Herman Cain ?insider?? Rick Perry’s! Who is dreaming of a “re-lunch” of his campaign? Rick Perry!

    Mr. Cain’s suspicions are well founded. He is a mathematician and follows logic; it is the most accurate assumption and I believe him!

    Sorry Erick, I know that for some odd reason you’d like to see Rick Perry win the Republican nomination and that poses the question: WHO IS stuck on stupid? In my rhetorical question stupid is Rick Perry! Can you visualize Perry in a debate with Obama? He’d be minced meat in no time at all. Mr. Cain on the other hand, would be an awesome debater with the pretend “first black candidate”. I’d love to see how a REAL black AND conservative American could perhaps once and for all prove black American voters that THERE IS an alternative for their choice!

  • defenseconservative

    … but it doesn’t change the fact that:

    1) he would prefer to see all of them implemented; 2) he presents them as one indivisible set of policies, whereby defense spending cuts would total $1.006 trillion over a decade and total federal spending cuts $9 trillion over a decade; 3) ANY of his big defense cut proposals, even if implemented alone, would do significant damage to the US military and make America less safe, while implementing all of them would gut the military completely and invite a Russian first nuclear strike; 4) any of these defense cuts would be implemented ON TOP OF, not instead of, all the defense cuts already administered or scheduled (including the defense cuts ordered by the debt ceiling deal, $465 bn).

    As for Coburn’s pious denials:

    “However, we would hope each proposal would be debated on its merits.”

    And that’s what I (and others) have done. The problem is that there is no merit to his proposals at all. NONE. And if Coburn doesn’t know that, he’s mentally deficient.

    “As an example, an option to reduce the number of aircraft carriers from eleven to ten is not equivalent to an option of permanently decommissioning every single aircraft carrier in the Navy?s fleet.”

    Technically true, but this Nation cannot afford to cut its carrier fleet any more. The Congress reluctantly accepted, in 2007, a permanent cut of the carrier fleet from 12 to 11 ships, but promised there would be no further cuts to the fleet and instituted a statutory requirement that the Navy have no fewer than 11 carriers. Last year, that requirement was temporarily waived for the Enterprise-Ford “interregnum” (2013-2015). As numerous credible analysts, including the HF’s Peter Brookes, say, the Navy needs NO FEWER than 11 carriers. With fewer than 11 carriers, the Navy would have no more than 6-7 carriers available for deployment at any one time (the others would be in refit or staying in homeport after deployment), and therefore, executing the Fleet Response Plan would become impossible.

    “It should also be noted what is not included in these proposals.”

    Oh, so we are supposed to be grateful to Coburn that he’s only half stupid and doesn’t rpopose to close the DOD entirely? Again, like I said, the defense cuts that he HAS proposed would, by themselves, gut the military for the reasons I stated earlier. It doesn’t matter what is not included in these proposals.

    “Under this plan, the Army will return to its pre-war size but not be cut further.”

    So we are supposed to be grateful to Coburn for cutting the Army “only” to its pre-war size? The Army’s pre-war size is inadequate, and, as Army Vice Chief of Staff testified recently on Capitol Hill, whenever the Army’s troop strength was cut, it cost them lives.

    “The Navy will remain nearly the same size”

    Only if by “nearly the same size” you mean eliminating an entire carrier strike group, its associated air wing, and the ships that Gates’s savings of January 2011 would’ve paid for. (Coburn proposes to transfer all of these savings into deficit reduction, not military modernization as Gates proposed.)

    “as will the Air Force as measured in total number of ships and combat wings.”

    FALSE. As stated above, Coburn proposes to eliminate an entire carrier strike group, an entire carrier air wing, and 200 ICBMs, which would mean abolishing 1-2 Air Force missile wings (and inviting a nuclear first strike by Russia).

    “Key modernization programs, even the Joint Strike Fighter, will continue.”

    FALSE. Two variants of the F-35 – B and C – would be cancelled (with no replacement for Marines and a pathetic substitute, the Super Bug, for the Navy; the Super Bug is essentially a variant of the F/A-18, a plane that first flew in 1978 and entered service in the 1980s). The Next Generation Bomber program would be delayed until the mid-202s, even though it is LONG OVERDUE (a genuine REQUIREMENT for it was identified 5 years ago and confirmed by the 2010 QDR and by Sec. Gates in January 2011). The V-22 program would barely limp along, severely cut.

    “The nation?s nuclear deterrent will remain robust.”

    FALSE. It will be severely cut to the point that Russia would be tempted to conduct a nuclear first strike against the US. Coburn proposes to cut – for purely budgetary reasons – the ICBM fleet by 200 missiles, from 500 to 300, and the SSBN fleet (with its associated SLBMs) from 14 to 11. Note that the Heritage Foundation already deems the current nuclear deterrent inadequate, and that former SECDEF/SECENERGY/defense expert James Schlesinger deems the arsenal allowed by the New START “barely adequate”, per his Senate testimony on the treaty. Russia has already matched the US in the quantity of strategic delivery systems (and has more strategic nuclear warheads than the US), having reached the maximum quotas allowed by New START, and has the financial and technological capability to add further strategic DSes (ICBMs, SLBMs, bombers). It also has over 100 Tu-22M air-refuelable bombers that the New START doesn’t count. ANY CUTS to the US nuclear arsenal or the arsenal of means of delivery would render the US weaker than Russia on that score, and thus imperil the US. Cuts of the magnitude demanded by Sen. Coburn would cut the US arsenal so badly they would invite a nuclear first strike. And, under his budget cuts, you can forget about any modernization of the nuclear triad. There wouldn’t be any money for that and indeed he says he would delay the NGB program until the mid-2020s.

    “Pay levels will not be cut or frozen for active duty military service members. In fact if the option regarding defense commissaries and post exchanges is adopted, active duty military pay will increase.”

    Oh, so we should be grateful that he will at least not cut military pay and only gut the military?

    “While the options below represent $1 trillion in savings, the reduced spending from these options listed below would put the Pentagon back on the level of annual funding it had just five years ago at the height of the Iraq surge.”

    FALSE. The FY2008 core defense budget was $481.4 bn in then-year dollars, i.e. $526 bn in today’s money. The FY2007 core defense budget was, IIRC, $475 bn in then-year dollars. The current defense budget, under the CR, is $530 bn. Cutting the defense budget by $100 bn a year would mean cutting it to $430 bn, a level of defense spending not seen since the early Bush years, i.e. a totally inadequate level.

    Coburn’s defense cuts would be destructive, dangerous, wrong, and treasonous. Shame on you for supporting them and this despicable traitor from Oklahoma.

  • defenseconservative

    Your credibility, doc, is nonexistent, just like that of the slimy Senator from Oklahoma. Yet, you question MY credibility? Who do you think you are?

  • annplato

    to a “community organizer” whom some females were swooning over his mere presence. Mr. Cain does NOT look to me as a womanizer, while Obama would use any dirty trick to endear himself to ANYONE, be that swooning females or whining homosexuals.

    You know what bzip? You and Erick, in your ideological blindness don’t consider even for one moment the hardest test for the Republican candidate is going to be the DEBATE! Rick Perry, or for that matter Ron Paul could NEVER win over the electorate, while a Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich or Herman Cain, have a fighting chance! Can we agree that the first order of priority is ousting Obama and that requires someone who has the best chance to neutralize him?

  • carolynr

    I think I am about done with Fox. I have never been more disappointed with a one-sided bias in my life. I was one of these people that bought into Fair and Balanced and of all the people on Fox, Hannity appeared to be consistent and Conservative. I’ve changed my mind and I have also changed my mind about Herman Cain. While I am a Perry fan, I have been to Cain’s events. Seems like he did a good job rallying the TPM…but he was not original and he was redundant. Last night, I watched the Perry interview and I thought it was good. Do you think that Hannity spent ONE MINUTE asking his Great American Panel about it? No. We heard about Herman Cain and his race.

    The Conservatives have played the race card and Herman Cain helped them do it. As an earlier poster remarked…he is tired of Cry Baby in Chief. What does race have to do with this…especially when played by the Right…UNLESS THEY HAVE AN AGENDA. Believe me…Karl Rove and Company does…not to mention Buffoon Morris. How can a man forget about a sexual harassment charge or even make the statement that he was unaware of the outcome. Cain was aware of the outcome. As early as 2003…he told HIS campaign about it…is his memory that short? Then we come up with inconsistencies as if we were in some corn maze. I don’t know where anything stands with Herman and furthermore…we’re in mega trouble in the USA and we want to nominate another novice??? Folksy homilies won’t cut it Herman!

    Race has nothing to do with confusion or lies or misstatements. They have no color. It shows the content of their character and Mr. Cain’s is not shining so brightly as he blames everyone in sight besides himself. The one person left to blame is Bush…I guess that will come as this becomes more clear that the man is either forgetful or NOT UP TO THE JOB.

  • annplato

    You and the likes of you want to do the same thing over and over again and expect different outcomes. Cain’s biggest attraction is that he IS an outsider; much more so than Obama ever was. What’s wrong with you? Why can’t you like someone who is a REAL, everyday American successful businessman, who is a REAL-LIFE “from rags to riches” story, which most of us American so love?

    I DO root for him, that even if he appears to have made ?bad? judgment decisions, that are NOT typical for him; you cannot succeed in business if you stumble from bad decision to bad decision. That does not add up for his past “record”.

    Unless I hear otherwise from his past employers, I will trust that he is a very intelligent man who improves himself until he reaches the pinnacle of executive excellence!

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …but know that Rick was probably compelled to create this pivot-point.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    Earlier, I explored the fealty expressed towards Cain by Rush/Hannity/Morris; clearly, there are ongoing relationships afoot, coupled with a driving-force of ideology which–for now–has sufficed.

    The key-problem with your analysis [and I watched Hannity, twice] is that it appears to be end-point oriented. The relative silence thereat [including on the daytime shows] is perhaps illustrative of a sense of tentativeness which may herald a transition to the point at which we have arrived.

    FNC’s posture will undoubtedly be influenced by cogent review of subsequently released data, whether it be via the NRA or the AP or Bennett or Politico. Thus far, we really haven’t heard from O’Reilly, and Bernie hasn’t opined [nor has Dennis, definitively].

    Candidly, I am as dismayed as you are, but I’m optimistic that they will recognize internally that Cain is hopeless, if BHO is to be defeated decisively. We will then learn of this updated posture, perhaps after Cain himself has learned [from those closest to him, if possible] that the jig [of the non-orthodox campaign of the non-politician] is unsustainable [in this world of a MSM/LSM which denudes even the most nattily-dressed pseudo-leader].

    I concur with your sentiments, entirely, particularly with regard with how nauseating it is for Cain to play the race/victim card [and for others to lend support to this tangential thinking]. Certainly, Krauthammer and the rest of the all-stars appear to “get it,” and I can’t imagine that they would be unable to have heart-to-heart chats with their esteemed colleagues….

  • defenseconservative

    If forced to choose between Perry and Paul, which defense cutter (or should I say DEFENSE GUTTER) should I vote for?

  • gracepmc

    acknowledged and accepted.

  • mspector

    Believe it or not, as someone who has opposed Obama since he first slinked onto the national scene, I would respond exactly as I do here.

    These were not allegations of “sexual harassment” but of “inappropriate behavior.” As such they are by definition vaporous and impossible of proof because the only actual issue is that they made the woman “uncomfortable”. Yet and still, she was happy to get some money out of it, which brings me to #2:

    The settlement (or whatever you want to call it) was for “go away money”, as Erick so correctly pointed out a couple of days ago. It was cheaper and easier for the NRA (not Cain!) to pay the money and get rid of the problem than to have to deal with possible commission hearings and perhaps even a court trial. Nobody needs that kind of aggravation.

    I agree Cain’s responses have not been of the highest order; this is a problem he has had before. There is more than enough precedent for holders of high office in how and how not to respond to this sort of thing. This is not it. If you know the “skeleton is in the closet”, have a plan. Keep it simple. Don’t add fuel to the fire. In this case, the allegations of “inappropriate behavior” were made and the NRA decided to pay a few dollars rather than let it all go further. That’s the story; don’t do anything to make the story more than that.

  • ronvega00

    I wanted to support Perry, but he shot himself in the head with his performance and statements. Cain has problems of inexperience, but he is way better than Perry. This site has gone on the tank for Perry, with no real reason for it to do so, based on any performance of Perry, from which, I am left to deduct they have been bought and paid for. If Perry has bought you, and from all appearnces he has, then the trail of garbage that goes from the NRA and Politico to Perry’s campaign and Perry’s staffers, leads me to believe that Cain is right. Perry is behind this whole mess. Now you can delete this post ( which I am copying to other sites, as well as both the Cain ,and Perry campaigns, and the RNC to boot for good measure. But you still won’t change the fact that you are nothing but political whor-s bought and paid for.

  • streiff

    that Perry cash just paid off my Vail condo, maxed my 401k and bought me a Cadillac Escalade. I’m a happy man.

  • streiff

    who lied to his campaign manager about the number of sexual harassment allegations against him in 2003? Cain. Who had two weeks notice this was coming out and was still surprised? Cain. Who claimed Curt Anderson leaked this though he wasn’t hired by Perry until after it came out? Cain. Which campaign has walked back from their claims of blame? Cain.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    I understand that you were sent a link to the above post “to boot for good measure.” Now, I know that the text needs some fairly drastic copy-editing; and normally I’d have done it directly. But we’re going to try an experiment, and do it in comments here.

    Are we ready?

    Excellent.

    Red[]Sta[t]e is a Perry[-b]ot site[.]

    I wanted to support Perry[;] but he shot himself in the head with [both] his performance and [his] statements. Cain has problems of [with] inexperience, but he is [still] way [far] better than Perry. This site has gone on [in] the tank for Perry, with no real reason for it to do so[] [(]based on any performance of by Perry[);] from which, so I am left to deduct [deduce that] they have [it has] been bought and paid for. If Perry has bought you [RedState] [-] and from [by] all appear[a]nces he has [-] then the trail of garbage that goes from the NRA and Politico to Perry?s campaign and Perry?s staffers[] leads me to believe that Cain is right[;] Perry is behind this whole mess.

    [paragraph break]

    Now you [RedState] can delete this post ([]which I am copying to other sites, as well as both the Cain[] and [the] Perry campaigns [-] and the RNC to boot for good measure[)]. But you [it] still won?t change the fact that you are [RedState is] nothing but [a collection of] political whor-s [who are] bought and paid for.

  • Bill S

    I used all my dough to pay off Cain to look like a fool on this. It’s a self-perpetuating gravy train that way.

  • Bill S

    “whor-s” = “whores”. I don’t want my title to be misspelled.

  • streiff

    the amount of money I’m getting entitles me to a better job title than mere “whore”

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    But that one, lonely little nod to decency and site standards appealed to me sufficiently that I could not bear to kill it.

  • Repair_Man_Jack

    Then people will not have to stop and wonder whether you were Michele Bachmann’s Guardasil poster child.

  • onemovoter

    So Cain comes out later saying that Anderson is the leak because Cain and Anderson sat in a closed room to talk privately about any skeletons they might have to deal with.

    What was Anderson’s position again with the Cain 2003-04 campaign? Would Anderson be the person back then for Cain to sit down with to explain and recount confidential info?

    If Cain and Anderson did have this supposed conversation back then and Cain only recounted one woman that had the issue at NRA, why was Politico able to come up with two from the same organization?

    Since Anderson has come out and said that he never had the discussion over possible scandals (refer back to position question) does that mean Cain outright lied in claiming he did talk to Anderson?

    If he lied about that to smear another campaign, what else has he lied about?

    Inquiring minds want to know…..

  • streiff

    we know how this came about.

    Around two weeks ago the NRA board met and one of the agenda items was the NRA endorsing Cain. Someone on the board brought up the sexual harassment allegations. So the endorsement went nowhere. Shortly after that meeting, Politico got the tip. Obviously, one of the board members did the tipping. My contention is that Romney has a lot of allies there, Cain’s successor as NRA president is a big Romney donor, and it makes more sense that a board member tipped the Romney campaign who tipped Politico.

    Cain’s shameful attack of a Perry staffer is just more evidence that he doesn’t have the temperament to be president.

  • gator_hoo

    Unfortunately, it is perfectly possible to be successful in business and be incompetent. Ability is important, but it is far from the only factor in business success.

  • avagreen

    Shame on FOX.
    For not defending a conservative under attack, but will defend another “conservative” (questionable) when he’s being “faced with his mistakes” in the past and they’ve come home to roost.

    Gives me hope.

  • avagreen

    Reduce Non-Defense Discretionary Spending by $100 Billion in the First Year


    Here’s the whole enchalada on Perry’s Cut, Grow, Balance Plan

    If you find defense cutting, let me know. Maybe I’ve made a mistake.

    (Hoping that the links come through properly.)

  • avagreen

    Funny!

  • avagreen

    read my post above about your post about Perry and defense…..

  • avagreen

    …..facts fight smears, lies, and distortions all the time. ;)

    *big thumbs up*

  • avagreen

    …….while still recovering from back surgery.

    This fire (one among many that raged in every county in Texas but one for 300+ days in Texas from the drought) destroyed 1500 to 1700 homes alone (can’t remember how many).

    http://houston.culturemap.com/newsdetail/09-05-11-fires-continue-to-rage-two-killed-in-bastrop/

    This is what Perry was dealing with during the debates, plus the pain from his back surgery. While Cain did whut? Romney did whut? Bachmann did whut?

    The only reason that NO ONE knows about this is that he didn’t get on TV and whine about how he was being treated like some of the candidates have done and have been enabled to do.

    THIS IS MY GOVERNOR AND THIS IS THE MAN FOR WHOM I’M VOTING AND FIGHTING FOR!

  • aesthete

    What about our current engagements in Afghanistan, Libya, Uganda or Iraq has anything to do with “defense”?

    (I’ll leave off Yemen since we actually *are* fighting Al-Qaeda there.)

  • shadowmane

    But this didn’t come from the Democrats. I was saying this Monday after I found out about it. This came from someone in the establishment of the Republican Party. The Democrats think they can beat Cain, so it don’t make sense for them to attack him.

  • retire05

    the number of homes lost was 1,554 in a county of 70,000. The morning of the debate, Governor Perry was in the air at dawn flying over Bastrop County so he could get a good view of the devestation. He was at the Bastrop Civic Center late that morning, and was asked about the debates. He told those thousands who were homeless that he was more worried about them than any debate. You should have heard the cheers. So being up at before dawn, in a helicopter viewing the ashes of what had been over 1,500 homes and trying to confort thousands who were homeless, and he was supposed to worry about a stupid debate full of nothing but gotcha questions from those who had nothing else to do? I don’t think so. Let the others go have an honest job during a crisis and then go debate that evening let’s see how well they do.

    But isn’t that what a governor should do, take care of his own state first? After all, he’s only running for POTUS.

    I can tell you this: the FEMA response to Bastrop County was pathetic. The FEMA support the news reported on was a couple of FEMA people who were taking the names of people, WHO DID NOT HAVE INSURANCE. If you had insurance, you were told to call the 1-800 number for FEMA. Of course, you could not get through. People waited on hold for hours, only to get a recording, or disconnected. FEMA, after the volunteer fire fighters had been fighting these fires for three days, tried to get them to leave, not fight the fires, if they were not “federally” certified. The certification from Texas A & M didn’t seem to be important to the Feds.

    The VFD firefighters were the heroes in all of this. There were only two lives lost in the Bastrop fires. Two. And do you hear anything on the news now about how these Texans are complaining how the federal government is not taking care of them like you did in New Orleans after Katrina? Nope. Still thousands without a home for almost two months. But everyone is squared away, living with friends or in rental homes donated to them by their Texas owners.

    Frankly, some parts of the nation could learn a lot from us independent, take care of each other Texans.

  • avagreen

    It’s up to his supporters and we fellow Texans to get the news out.

    MG! We’ve only been living with guy and his policies for the past 10 years….why in the world should we know anything about him?
    Far better to let FOX and other people from other states tell us about him.

    ROF!

    PERRY FOR 2012!!!!!

  • williamjameson

    Sounds like Cain made some comments and the women were offended or perhaps gold diggers out for cash.

    Regardless, the Clinton scandal was far bigger.

    The white liberal John Edwards got a free pass from all the media, a tabloid scooped the story exposing how pathetic liberals truly are. Race is a factor with the Cain scandal.

  • defenseconservative

    I’ve read Rick Perry’s entire plan. It includes this gem:

    “Washington can demonstrate that it is serious about making the tough decisions necessary to balance the budget. Sen. Tom Coburn recently proposed $9 trillion worth of specific ideas on how to reduce federal spending.”

    And although he mentioned several other balanced budget plans in his CBG plan, he has made clear in a subsequent interview with Chris Wallace (a strident liberal) that the Coburn plan is the one he supports and would try implement as President:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/RickPerryPresident#p/u/4/4iE1L35K2aI

    (the relevant part of the interview starts at ca. 13:24)

    What’s wrong with the Coburn plan? It would slap the biggest budget cuts by far on the DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE – over 1 TRILLION dollars over a decade, i.e. more than 100 bn bucks EVERY YEAR, and would entail, inter alia, cutting the ICBM fleet by 200 missiles, from 500 to 300, cutting the SSBN fleet to just 11 subs, cancelling the Marine and Navy variants of the F-35 program (with no replacement for the Marine variant and with the obsolete Super Bug as a replacement for the Navy variant), cutting the Army to its pre-9/11 size, dramatically cutting orders for combat-proven (in 3 different theaters) V-22 aircraft, and more defense cuts. Read my previous posts for explanations of why these cuts would be destructive. And remember that all of these cuts would be done SOLELY for budgetary reasons, not military ones.

    Either Perry doesn’t know what the Coburn plan would entail, or he knows and doesn’t care what huge damage it would do to the military. Either of which is a disqualifier.

    No to Rick Perry the Defense Gutter. There are already enough pro-defense-cuts candidates running for the GOP nomination. Heck, I’d rather have Ron Paul than Rick Perry.

  • defenseconservative

    And Coburn’s plan would not cut off funding for THESE WARS. Even though it should.

    No, Coburn plan would instead cut – and gut – the meat and bone of the US military: troop numbers, the force structure, weapon stocks, weapon programs, RnD programs, and capabilities.

    And that’s what other politicians (including Obama) are doing right now. They’re expanding America’s military commitments to new and new irrelevant viper pits, while cutting its budget, force structure, troop numbers, and modernization programs. Maybe it’s a deliberate attempt to gut it completely.