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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Rick Perry on Federalism & Immigration

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  November 9th, 2011 at 05:32 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

When Governor Perry and I sat down last week in Orange County, CA, I wanted to drill down on two areas of interest for conservative voters.

First, in his book Fed Up!, Governor Perry repeatedly returned to the idea of federalism, but few people have really explored that with him. This transitioned into some questions on immigration, his views on amnesty, and what role the states have to pay in immigration laws with Washington doing nothing.

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  • Change Jar Conservative

    I was excited for the first 2 minutes then I heard “bring them out of the shadows” … really?

    Sigh.

    Look, put e-verify into place for all businesses > 4 people.

    Seize assets of businesses hiring illegals without checking e-verify.

    Ditto on renting / selling property.

    The illegals will leave on their own.

    I have been trying to ignore the tuition part and focus on his love of federalism, but it’s hard to get past what he just said in that video clip.

    Send him back for a different immigration sound bite.

  • bzip

    To give you a more in-depth view of Perry’s stance on e-verify you may want to look at the below articles. Much like all of Perry’s policies he believes ths policy should work, in others words he is for e-verify but in the current form it isn’t working properly. See below:

    Perry on E-verify
    by Sibyl West on November 2, 2011
    http://ramparts360.com/2011/11/perry-on-e-verify/

    and;
    http://rightwingnews.com/interviews/interviewing-rick-perry-on-illegal-immigration-2/?utm_source=The+Perry+Almanac&utm_campaign=ebc47d5b11-Email_19_15_2011&utm_medium=email

    …”GOVERNOR RICK PERRY: I agree that some kind of electronic verification system is needed so we can make sure employers comply with the law not to hire illegal immigrants. E-Verify is a federal government created and run program, and as a result there have been a number of problems with it so far. The Department of Homeland Security estimated the system could fail to identify more than half of all illegal immigrants.

    But just because it has problems doesn?t mean we should throw employee verification out. It means we should make it work. Employee verification needs to be accurate so American citizens aren?t denied jobs based on bad data and undocumented immigrants don?t slip through the system. And it needs to be less cumbersome for employers to use, so it?s not costing them money they could be using to create jobs.

    So as president, I?d work to put in place an E-Verify system that?s more accurate, less burdensome and really delivers the results we need it to.”

  • quill67

    DO NOT:

    Try attack style. It doesn’t work for you. You goofed on this in previous debates (Maybe you’re not the attack type of guy).

    DO:

    Do talk about your plans for our country, your life experiences, your values, your hopes. I’ve seen you talk about these things and you are great at it.

    I like the Rick Perry in this piece.

  • rec0n

    Perry isn’t interested in a blanket amnesty for 12-13 million illegal aliens. What he is interested in is a realistic approach that will address the issue and that approach will necessarily include exactly what he said it would – deportation, work visas, and paths to citizenship. He’s suggested one of those paths might be service in our depleted military ranks, for instance. That’s not a new idea, but it’s still a good one, particularly now.

    “Bringing them out of the shadows” is a necessary first step to being able to identify them and direct this process, not a step towards amnesty.

    Perry hasn’t spent the last two decades bowing to liberals and he’s certainly not going to start now. He has done precisely the opposite, stating quite clearly that the GOP cannot be all things to all peoples and we stand for something, lest we stand for nothing. He’s not stupid, he’s not an amnesty proponent, and he’s got zero interest in promoting a whole new liberal voting block – take it to the bank.

    Interesting little side-note re: E-Verify: there are entrepreneurs out there now that are losing their businesses because the results they got from E-Verify were inaccurate. They did everything right, and they’re being punished.

  • bzip

    I relay my story with e-verify and my work.

    I work in a place that has thousands of employees. We got notice about a year ago to bring the necessary documentation in so we could be verified. They gave us a list of acceptable documents to bring in.

    Now I have been working at this place since 1983. I brought in the paper work required. Guess what, they turned me away and said I didn’t have to show my paper work since I started working prior to (if I remember correctly it was) 1995 the cut off date.

    Does that sound like a very accurate way of doing things. I was shock as was a number of people.

    Look folks, Perry is tough on illegals and he has the experience and the right thinking to this problem. You might not see eye to eye with him on certain items but Perry is NOT soft of the issue at all.

    He presented his case very well in the interview with Erick. Perhaps Erick should have drilled on all aspects so that every single question would have been answered.

  • pttx333

    who he is and what he truly believes. Good man all the way around.

  • Martin Knight

    Attack simply is not his style. He’s extremely clumsy at it. He should stay positive, explain his positions and the reality of things …

    … but come out claws first at anyone who attacks him or badmouths Texas.

  • bzip

    I posted this in a different thread early this morning but my take on tonight debate (and I agree, Perry is a good man with good values and good principles – it shows in his interviews and ads):

    Tonight marks yet another debate. This debate will be very interesting. Since the last debate much has happen. We now have the Cain sex scandal which may be brought up in the debate.

    In regards to Rick Perry:
    Since the last debate there has been much change in Team Perry camp. New people have been added to Team Perry and Perry has released and shown us his vision with: Cut, Balance, Grow (flat tax), he also has his energy plan, job plan.

    Perry has much to focus on with his new policies and vision. Perry has gone into full campaign mode, doing lots of interviews. He has remained much focused and is clearly showing a huge improvement in his overall campaign, staying very much on message. Anyone who has watched Perry?s interviews recently can see how much he has changed, how focused he has become.

    There has been much change in Perry and in Team Perry since the last debate. Think back when Perry first got into the race, he had no visions, no plans and wasn?t in full campaign mode. He even had back surgery shortly before he entered the race.

    I suspect most people would agree that Perry has gone through a big transformation in the past month and ?may? surprise all of us in his debate performance tonight (I don?t what to get my expectations too high but I do expect a difference in Perry?s debate performance tonight).

    I do hope Perry stays away from the bickering, the high negatives tonight and stays on message.I also realize and think that Perry isn?t as good at these 1 minute slam dunk debate formats as he is with interviews or even debates that allow for more time giving us real substance.

  • changeforrickperry

    Since bzip was predicting the debate’s results in this thread earlier, I’m going to make this request here. To any Perry supporters who have TV: what’s going on at the debate? I don’t have TV out here in my rural area and I’m living on HotAir’s open thread. Can anybody give me a summary of the past hour? I’d really appreciate it!
    —–
    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • bzip

    My take so far (half way through it):

    The moderators aren’t asking Perry much BUT what Perry has said has been excellent. Perry’s isn’t negative or bickering with anyone or Mitt. Perry sounds very good with the little time he has been given.

    Newt is doing very well as usual.

    Cain – everything is solved with 999, just don’t understand his substance and how 999 solves everything every time he is ask something.

    my take thus far.

  • florajo

    The decision to attack or not, for Perry, depends on his evaluation of what will happen to Cain in the next month. If Perry believes that Cain will implode, which is likely, then he should be positive and keep running the marathon. Cain’s votes should flow his way.

    If Perry thinks Cain will survive the scandal, then he needs to force the action, create a play. Perry is behind by a lot.

  • changeforrickperry

    I’m following comments on Twitter and seeing that Perry got some good applause at points. At HotAir they keep talking about him being asleep, so I was glad to see plenty of good tweets.
    ———-
    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • tailfins1959

    Perry is toast. That segment in the debate has done him in.

  • Spartan4Life

    He’s my guy but man he flubbed that answer. Said he was going to get rid of three cabinet departments then couldn’t remember which ones.

  • changeforrickperry

    I’m reading on Twitter and HotAir that Perry just flubbed on a question. Ed Morrissey is saying he’s done. What’s going on?
    ———
    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • writescribe

    Perry just said he would immediately axe 3 agencies and couldn’t remember the third one, even when given two chances. It looked really bad, and the moderators have been ignoring him since then.

  • tailfins1959

    8.0 to 3.1 in a couple of minutes.

  • jimmyg

    nt

  • changeforrickperry

    Why should one mess-up–if he did fine the rest of the debate–derail his campaign?
    ———-
    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • tailfins1959

    If you bet he wins the nomination, you can clean up rather nicely if you are right.

  • seth90212

    without even knowing what he wanted to do. Remember when he couldn’t even describe his economic policies? He kept saying “wait for my plan.” Not even a summery, not even talking points. Nothing.

    He was done a long time ago.

  • bzip

    I got to admit, it wasn’t too good at all for Perry. Odd thing, he went into that question really good and was doing very well but at the end he couldn’t remember the 3 program to axe that he wanted to axe.

    a few minutes later:
    Perry: just got done answering a question in-depth and very good. I don’t know if it was good enough to redeem himself or not but I am nervous.

  • bzip

    There goes Cain and his 999 plan again, boy I am sick of that.

    I think Perry did a good come back so there might be hope

  • lucasblack

    Rick Perry ‘Ooop’ clip
    http://www.businessinsider.com/perry-debate-disaster-this-is-the-moment-that-officially-killed-his-campaign–for-good-2011-11

  • Spartan4Life

    Totally lost his train of thought. He was answering aquestion from the CEO of Cat by pointing out that Cat had moved significant jo bs to Texas because of his policies. The he veered into something totally unrelated and lost his train of thought,.

    Ugh.

  • changeforrickperry

    as rsklaroff is always saying. It’s not over till it’s over, and if he made a good comeback…

    Look, no matter what the man does, he’ll be treated like a criminal by the media. It’s what the people think that counts. Rick Perry is still the only man up there who has the experience and the guts to tackle our mess of a country.

    Anybody really think Obama would be any better debating Perry? Without a teleprompter?!

    I’m not even going to Fox tomorrow, because I know it’ll be all about this and it’ll just make me angry. I’ll stick to RedState. Although I’m bracing myself for Erick Erickson’s Horserace…watching his Twitter is worrisome.
    ———-
    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • jimmyg

    He is just adding to his resume.

  • Flagstaff

    Who hasn’t done it. I doubt that it will hurt much.

    Something else about the way he is answering might hurt, though.

  • florajo

    I want to attribute Perry’s dullness to nervousness, but I keep wondering if there’s an age component. I’m not keen on another president going senile in office. (insert joke here)

  • bzip

    I don’t know how it will play out.

    After Perry has his fumble he had a couple more questions later in the debate. and he did very well on them. I don’t know if it will be enough. boy I sure hope he can pull himself out of this.

    He was actually excellent through the whole debate except for missing the 3 programs he wanted to axe…

    Cain – no substance and all 999,

  • pdawk

    And the only one that we will hear tomorrow and for several days is the one where Perry had the worst flub in a debate in my lifetime.

    Larry Sabato said it was the worst debate moment he can ever remember. It was uncomfortable, it was bizarre and it made Perry look like a complete moron. There is no coming back from this.

    Get ready to see Gingrich skyrocket in the polls.

  • changeforrickperry

    Or maybe I’m the dull one. From what I’m gathering, it sounds like he’s nervous. I’m going to watch the video right now, and judge for myself.
    —–
    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • windwaker24

    I really loved Gov. Perry! But I don’t think the Republicans will forgive him for his flub. The Constitution Party it is, then!

  • runner12

    It was so odd because he really was answering the question well until he just blanked out. It seemed like a true brain freeze and CNBC jumped all over it.

    It will not change my vote, but Perry did not help himself tonight.

  • changeforrickperry

    OK, after watching it I’d definitely say he was nervous. You could see it, he just drew a blank. I do that ALL THE TIME. Sometimes I have to draw things out of my mom because she can’t remember something, and I have to ask her, “Did you mean this? We were talking about…” It happens to everybody. Hey, the fact that he could laugh about it and that the audience could laugh about it–seems like a good sign.

    Either way, he’ll have to do some damage control on this one, but I’m not giving up on him. Was John McCain a good debater? George W. Bush? Even Reagan had his flubs. No, I’m not counting him out.
    —–
    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • changeforrickperry

    Keep the good faith! Voting doesn’t start until January 3 and a lot can happen between now and then. Herman Cain is the prime example. Who would have thought three weeks ago that we’d be watching his campaign suffer? Don’t give up the ship yet!
    —-
    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • florajo

    Maybe Perry is cramming too many facts in preparation. I guess that would make these three agencies more of a memorized position than a deeply held conviction.

  • tailfins1959

    For those of us that got kicked in the teeth be this economy, ANY of the candidates on that stage are good enough.

  • sunshinek67

    —

  • pdawk

    The Headline setter just turned a debate no one cared about into a news clip that destroyed Perry’s campaign.

  • runner12

    At least Perry knows that we do not have 58 states in the Union and that you do not hug the Queen of England. I can’t say the same for our current occupant in the WH.

  • texasref

    I was wincing at his brain cramp.

  • windwaker24

    but I don’t think, based on the comments I’ve seen tonight, Republicans are going to forgive him. I do because I understand he’s human, but Republicans seem to be looking for perfection. Is it right? No. But that’s the way it is.

  • dirlie

    think he is God like based on their overzealous bashing of any who doesn’t believe in him. I saw this you tube clunker of his tonight posted on a college football chat board, it doesn’t bode well for him at all.

  • retire05

    left wing National Journal.

    Can we assume you now depend on the left wing press for your opinions?

  • windwaker24

    I’m suffering as much as every one else, but I don’t share the idea of slapping just anyone in the Presidency. That’s how Obama got in there.

  • florajo

    -

  • retire05

    Mitt’s just an overgrown Ken Doll.

  • nathanalbright

    n/t

  • retire05

    I did not sexually harass that woman, Ms. X, oh, wait, it was Ms. Y, no, maybe it was Ms. Z. Oh, hell, I didn’t sexually harass anyone. End of story.

    Now, go to my web site and read about 9-9-9, or was it 9-0-9? Anyway, Mark Block will explain all tomorrow.

  • tngal

    its twitter viral..anything having to do with the debate, dailycaller, hotair has a blurb about some top Perry fundraiser saying campaigns over, although I don’t necessarliy agee with that, national journal, drudge, townhall, politico…all the ususl suspects.
    HE said he’d do 5 more of these.so he’s got four more to go.

    Iknow people tried to clean Cain’s clock because he couldn’t remember some woman’s baseless allegations from 12 years ago, but to not remember which agency you promised to cut just a few days ago is well..strange Lets hope someone starts remembering to fund alzheimers research.. and soon. This could be an issue for the perry people.

  • pdawk

    And whether you like it or not, also sets the news narratives for a very large portion of the conservative news media.

    Perry’s big donors were already on edge. This just pushed them off the mountain.

  • retire05

    drilling here will keep Iran from gaining nuclear weapons.

    So says Herman Cain.

  • runner12

    I will take my candidate whose sin is blanking out over an agency versus the accusations levelled at Cain any day of the week. If this is an “issue” for Perry, Cain’s problems are a disaster.

    By the way, joking about having Alzheimer’s in poor taste.

  • retire05

    Do you think Drudge is the only news source available to conservative or that Matt Drudge isn’t just as biased as Fox has now become?

    Reality. Try it some time.

    Oh, and as to those donors? Perry has access to $55 million in just one PAC. Even Fox says that should make the rest of the candidates a bit nervous.

  • Tbone

    and then lies about all the “baseless allegations” but Perry has draws a mental blank and it’s the end of the world. You are a brainless twit.

  • Flagstaff

    Who hasn’t forgotten the last item in a list?

    How did you like Maria B. giving Perry a list of about five programs and asking him to put them in the order he would cut the most from. I’m surprised she didn’t add, “And why?”

    The entire evening was great TV and great practice for the candidates. Every questioner (except perhaps Rick Santelli) was there to try to get somebody to trip up, not to shed light on any of the issues. The one guy with hair was exceptionally transparent.

  • runner12

    The only people who have any room to gloat over Perry’s misteps are possibly Newt supporters. If I were a Cain supporter I would hardly be pointing fingers right now.

  • Flagstaff

    is a Dem shill.

  • runner12

    Or did you base that off of one of the random tweets from someone. FYI, twitter is not the most reliable news source.

    Time will tell how much this hurts Perry. If the circus continues to swarm Cain, he may get a pass.

  • runner12

    The moderators were clearly openly hostile. Perry was more than likely nervous and just drew a blank.

  • seth90212

    on Cain. It’s simply a waste of time and money to attack Perry, whose campaign formally ended tonight.

  • txpat

    And tell them what the 3rd agency was.
    Some of the news outlets are playing it that he couldn’t name the 3, but that was a lie.
    He named 2, but drew a blank on the 3rd.
    Geez he over all did well, but that will not be the story line coming out of this debate.

  • center77

    The only thing is, the left winged news and the center left Fox, OK center right fox, the Romney channel, all them will make it sound much worse than it was, but who cares, I will never vote for their candidate, theyv’e been beating Perry up for a long time. I’ve had enough of them, and I’ve had enough of Cain supporters denying facts, and twisting logic to fit what they want.

  • pdawk

    Reality is that 90% of the Republicans who get their news get it from Fox News and the Drudge Report. Reality is that most Republicans who get their news from those 2 sources trust them as fair and accurate.

    Reality is that before tonight Perry polled in single digits in South Carolina and Florida in polls that came out today. Reality is that a guy that came in as the supposed hero for this cycle and a fundraising machine has shown to be so incredibly incompetent during debates that it has defined him to the electorate.

    I know it sucks to see a guy that you put so much emotional capital into crash and burn faster than the Hindenburg. I would be pretty upset to, and I sympathize for you and your candidates fall from grace.

  • pdawk

    They have an email from a big donor. Obviously his name was redacted.

  • gracie

    I think he was doing really well. He did not look asleep; he looked engaged.

    He was answering the question and then he segued into his tax plan and unfortunately went too far and lost his train of thought. REALLY a shame.

    Still think we would have made the best president.

  • pdawk

    It will be Romney and Newt at the end. At least they are both good debaters.

  • kestrel

    To believe it will do him in is ridiculous. The commentators who make a big deal of it will only come across as full of themselves, as people who foolishly believe their opinions are the center of the universe.

    As a country, we are facing so many serious problems, from a nuclear Iran to gross government corruption and incompetence, a still-imploding economy and housing market, high unemployment, increasing inflation, a falling currency, domestic energy shut-down, business-strangling regulations, bailouts, and more bailouts (think Solyndra), blame-shifting, fecklessness, and lawlessness nearly everywhere you look in Washington — anyone who is worried about this gaffe of Perry’s is not worth listening to.

  • seth90212

    The audience was laughing at him.. Some of the other candidates were laughing at him.. It was brutal. I laughed uproariously but I also felt a little sorry for him..

    On the bright side, Perry just added an all-time classic to his YouTube repertoire.

  • usedtobelib

    sheer reason I can’t stand to see someone have to endure a moment like that, but yes, he can’t recover from that. It’s simply one more time that he’s looked and/or sounded lost. I tend to think it comes from “studying” what he wants to say, and I tend to agree with a poster above that most of his speaking problems in debates most likely derives from the fact he only recently decided he wanted to be President. Thus, he has had to prep by sitting down with aides and going over the most important points he must make and that has resulted in anxiety. He can speak off the cuff about Texas until the cows come home and do a good job of it, but when the conversation shifts, he has difficulty.

    Human, yes, but the job for which he is applying demands communication skills he has not yet demonstrated.

    Now, I have seen all but the Cain-Newt “debate the other night, and I have had to ask myself over and over why it is Jon Huntsman makes my skin crawl. From this woman’s perspective, his cocked eyebrows, his awful jokes (none tonight, thankfully), his way of moving his eyes and his head, (a kind of rotation thing), and many other mannerisms including his intonation pattern all conspire to evoke from me a truly visceral reaction that says, “Yuck.” On top of it all, his manner seems to scream, “You guys are stupid if you can’t see I am THE ONE.” If I turned off the sound, and I couldn’t hear a word he said so that I couldn’t tell if he were liberal, conservative, moderate, whatever, I would still say, “Yuck.” It is what it is, a negative visceral reaction to him.

    Newt? Tonight was no different from the others. I loved his answer about the college loans for students (loved Ron Paul’s response to this too), but Newt did what he always does if I listen to him long enough–reminded me that he has a hard time avoiding speaking down to people, attacking people ( CNBC questioners, all of whom were pretty darned good, esp. compared to previous groups), and reminding me that sarcasm never wins over those you need to win over–it only serves to win applause from those who already agree with you. Newt can only be a good boy for so long before his arrogance takes over and before he eats his young. I also tire of his deflections. He seems to think he’s better at deflection than the others and_ he_ is, but he uses the tactic too often.

    I am still wondering what role in government suits Newt and the country best.

  • seth90212

    doesn’t have staying power as he continues to surge in the polls.

    By the way, Cain is noted for his debating skills. In fact that’s how he broke away from the pack originally.

  • gekster

    Do you have sites for your numbers.
    You get them somewhere other than the top of your head.

  • florajo

    “Cain doesn’t have staying power”

  • pdawk

    I do not have any “sites” or “cites” to my claims. It was hyperbole as you are more than aware, but closer to the truth than you would care to admit.

  • runner12

    an e-mail. It was a tweet and is hardly substantiated. I saw the tweet live on the Daily Caller so I knew where you got your ” information.”

    I guess we all have our “oops” moments, even yourself.

  • newagegop

    But debates are part of how we pick a Prez…

    Wow that was bad. I think Perry would be a good maybe even great President, but he just can’t communicate his message in the way you have to. Unfortunately style is such a huge part of getting elected I just don’t think he has “IT”. A shame really. More of an indictment of our priorities rather than his ability.

    Well now we’re down to Newt or Cain.

    Suddenly Sarah Palin seems a lot more electable.

  • congressworksforus

    On a list of three things?

    Now, if his campaign is smart they’ll make this about how inconsequential the DOE is (it’s been a colossal failure) so it’s no wonder he forgot it.

    ;-)

  • congressworksforus

    The problem wasn’t forgetting the DoE… the problem was getting it wrong — by saying the EPA!

  • angryguy77

    You thought the mods were good? what planet did you watch this debate from? these mods were the worst by far, at least the others hid their contempt.

    as for Perry, its a shame conservatives are so show that they would vote for him because he’s notv a polished debater. its the ideas that are important, not how they’re said. but many conservatives Wallace like brainless libs and vote for the silver tounge. We’re done as a nation if I’m right

  • noodle

    I think Perry has demonstrated plenty of communication skills in his interviews and speeches and talking to people face-to-face. He wouldn’t be the success he is without such skills. I don’t see why so many are just ready to give up instead of endeavoring to perservere and actually showing support at this low point. If you are a backer of a candidate the time to really show that is when the chips are down. At the end of the day, he’s the candidate I trust the most, based on demonstrated record, willingness to say difficult things, and his proven willingness to serve his country. While he’s a politician, he comes across as a more normal person than anyone else on that stage.

  • Tbone

    Caincrap.

  • seth90212

    Perry by suggesting EPA or was he trying to add to Perry’s confusion? Knowing Romney he probably knew that wasn’t the right answer, but Perry took the bait and agreed EPA.

    What does this reveal about Perry beyond the fact that maybe he’s not particularly bright? Well, agreeing to eliminate EPA when his plan actually calls for eliminating DOE speaks volumes about Perry’s lack of character or core convictions. Perry seems to be motivated solely by a desire to gain the highest office, since if he really believed in his platform, he would certainly know which massive federal agency he wants to cut.

    Further, as Perry was scrabbling for an answer, he quickly agreed he would eliminate the EPA simply because it was the first one someone (Romney) blurted out. If someone has blurted out DOD, I’m sure Perry would’ve agree to put that department on the chopping block. When the moderator called him on that, probably because he did his research and knew it was DOE. Or probably because he knew that only a complete nitwit would want to eliminate the EPA, Perry was caught and so went back to trying to remember the actual agency he wanted to eliminate.

    It was very revealing. It isn’t just that Perry may not be very smart, he doesn’t seem to even believe in his own plans. They’re just there so he can say he has plans.

  • florajo

    You’re right, noodle, I just hate that Bachmann’s so far out of it and Perry hasn’t made enough of his opportunity. We’re left with some stanky choices.

  • usedtobelib

    others because it dealt with one thing–the economy. I saw no contempt from anyone. The only guy I don’t like because he’s so hyperactive it’s hard to understand him when he talks is Jim Kramer.

    I guess I am used to these people because as a retiree, I watch Neil Cavuto and many of the Fox Business Network people and I watch CNBC about a third as often as I do FBN. They didn’t behave differently tonight than they do on their regular shows and on their regular shows they go after the Obama admin and Barry O. big time as well as going after others, so yes, I thought they did a relatively good job. You know, if Newt or if Huntsman feels they can’t respond to a question in 30 seconds, then don’t come on the show at all–they know the rules going in.

    I don’t think Perry’s problem is that he’s not a polished debater. His problem has been that the only way he (or any other candidate) has of introducing himself to the voter is to communicate through the camera and several times he has not communicated well. He needn’t be “polished.” He seems ill at ease and a candidate who seems ill at ease in front of an audience doesn’t instill confidence for now ….or for down the road against Barry.

  • seth90212

    I believe it’s the best run and most informative federal agency we have.

  • red_refugee

    Perry looked like a fool and isn’t going to get the nomination. If you want a conservative nominee, start backing Cain or Gingrich because they are the only conservatives with poll numbers above the noise.

  • tngal

    Romney has always had the plateau that he couldn’t get over. Did he get a bump tonigh?. No major missteps.

    Newt was on the rise before tonight’s debate and didn’t shoot himself.

    I think Cramer goes up in the polls (although he’s not running.)

    Cain wasn’t awful and obviously had a supportive crowd. (wondering if Maria is used to be booed like that?)

    Perry had a brain fart. I can see him keeping his loyalists but did he add any new people?

    Ron Paul – He pushed his strong parts. Don’t think he lost what he had.

    Huntsman – well – maybe a left leaning mod gave him a seocnd look.

    Bachman – No enough bounce to get her to top tier.

    thoughts ( notice thoughts not slams)

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    This just is not good:

    Thank you,

    ColdWarrior

  • usedtobelib

    voice ask, “You mean the EPA”. Then I heard other voices, both male and female, but couldn’t tell whose voices they were.

    It was a very uncomfortable moment–felt like a moment X 1,000.

    For all the oil in Texas the word “energy” just wouldn’t come to him.

  • Tbone

    Can you say Solyndra?

  • pensworth

    Yes it made me cringe but I thought the fact that he volunteered it wasn’t the EPA and went back to trying to remember-tells me he was being sincere and actually meant it. It was a human moment.

  • usedtobelib

    business, the economy, finance. He gestures and his body loosens up with this topic.

  • txindependent

    But anyway, Perry sounded like he was kidding about EPA: “EPA? Yes that’s it!”. But then he said no. He came back later and answered it well.

  • gracie

    n/t

  • paladin1

    Governor Perry with his suggestion. It was a very unfortunate lapse but Perry recovered the answer shortly thereafter. Once again, it is the concentration on any issue OTHER than his plans and performance that his detractors put forward. I note you do not attack him over his solid performance in Texas, his energy or tax plans recently proposed, but only over his speaking ability in debate format. All I can say is, we in Texas are smart enough to see through glitches like this one and vote for performance. Its why he has been governor for three elected terms. By the way, if voters are blind enough to turn him out of this race, I am sure he will find a place for some of their states’ businesses here in Texas!

    I, for one, am still a huge Perry fan and will be through thick and thin.

  • texas214

    his previous poor performances magnified this moment. If he had been more comfortable in previous debates and in this one, this would matter less.

  • arcangel

    I couldn’t watch the debate, and only got commentary from others.

    After seeing the clip, I must say it wasn’t as bad as I expected.

    It came across as a ‘lighter’ moment than I envisioned.

    As a Perry supporter, though, I fear the amount of ‘doom’ headlines this will make.

  • the_invisible_hand

    These narratives build up and you can’t escape them and Perry is feeding into this village idiot narrative nicely. I felt genuine pity for him, but that doesn’t translate into votes.

  • seth90212

    Perry agreed EPA even though he knew it wasn’t EPA. He was being duplicitous but was nailed by John Harwood. Then he went back to trying to remember the actual agency. At this point everybody was laughing at him:: the audience, the moderators and some of the candidates. I know Bachmann laughed because that was the only female laughter from the stage.

    Someone on the stage said “oh my.” I don’t know who that was.

    Unlike some of the others, Cain didn’t laugh or smirk while Perry struggled. Good for him..

  • Menlo

    Can you PLEASE ask him to address the raping of American citizens by the government? None of them has uttered a word.

    Even worse, I see all this outrage over federal agencies, and the TSA is never among the agencies most demonized. No one even seems to think about it!

    This is a VERY serious issue, and it should not continue to be dismissed, ignored, or taken so lightly!

  • seth90212

    into the video below. I recognize his voice.

  • txindependent

    But remember others aren’t watching as closely as we are. This is just another debate of many. Many have this inflated view of Obama’s debating skills. I don’t remember Obama being that great of a debater. CNN mentioned this quickly, then one commentator said it was a flub but he did well overall. Maybe he’ll even get the sympathy vote now.

  • seth90212

    and statistics put out by DOE. The markets wait with bated breath for analysis and numbers crunched by DOE.

    Don’t talk out of ignorance. I maintain that the DOE is a vital agency and the most informative and best-run one we have.

  • arcangel

    Perry agreed that it was the EPA as a joke.

    I know you’re just here to bash Perry and stir stuff up, but you’re revealing your agenda too much. Back off a little, and you might accomplish your goals.

    Nice try making it into something more than it was: a brain fart.

  • nathanalbright

    …it’s part of the Department of Homeland Security and no one wants to be giving opponents easy ways to poke someone as weak on security.

  • noodle

    is what I’m looking for and resiliance, I like his “stepped in it” response. I’ve no desire to be a defeatist, donating 1st thing tomorrow.

  • David123

    not 57.

  • Menlo

    It’s rape! No one is asking to eliminate security or any agency. The systematic raping of individuals is an Obama-initiated policy, and it needs to be addressed.

    Anyone who would call that “weak on security” belongs with Obama and the Democrats, or rather the Islamic terrorists themselves.

  • nathanalbright

    ….I happen to agree with you. But how many of the candidates are even aware of that as a problem? How many of them have been forced to deal with the TSA and its overly eager hands? It’s better to inform them as to what is going on than it is to bash them, or bash someone who gives you a plausible reason as to why they haven’t addressed it yet. Be a little less heated and insecure.

  • Tbone

    or take you nourishment from some other government tit.

  • Menlo

    I was asking that Erick ask about it the next time he talks to one of the candidates.

    I know they have to have some awareness of it. I believe Ron Paul actually has addressed it in debates with them, but he doesn’t have any chance of winning.

  • littlehouse18

    you’d know he is quite smart enough. I’ve been quite impressed with his command of issues when speaking in other formats.

    By the way, Perry had no trouble remembering the three departments in previous presentations, maybe even in a previous debate (I’m not sure about that). This is not the first time he has spoken of this.

    That said, this lapse will cost him.

  • arthurmanger17

    Watched the debate on CNBC touted at the opening as the smartest economic minds at CNBC asking though questions about the economy. The moderators got hammered so they switched to the sex scandal, didn?t work. CNBC brought back that excitable bald headed dude to try to help the moderators bleeding, although he got hammered the first time out. Perry did not have a good night he forgot stuff. Romney did well as he is starting to parrot Newt and Herman. Substance over show . The debate helped further marginalize the NBC brand, and boosted Cain and Gingrich?s.

  • arthurmanger17

    provided by Ron Paul, Perry “yea right”.

  • arthurmanger17

    He got one and Ron Paul helped with the second with a suggestion Perry says yea that’s it. He didn’t forget one he only remembered one. Spin like you want but I do believe the truth was recorded.

  • arthurmanger17

    Which perry remembered after a little prodding from Paul.

  • davesinsanantonio

    it is definitely show over substance. Because, he is NOT a conservative. He will “parrot” because he does not “believe”!

  • davesinsanantonio

    defending him against those of you who claim he is the devil.

  • davesinsanantonio

    Surely this disqualifies him from being president. Everybody knows all the other candidates are perfect, At least if you read their supporters here.
    And Obummer is so supermanish that no mere human can ever get close to defeating him so we need to nominate candidate so and so.

  • davesinsanantonio

    lubricate the robot gears.

  • davesinsanantonio

    this is not a major issue for this campaign. Yes, it is important, but it is not a burning issue for the majority of the traveling public, and not an issue at all for those who do not fly.
    Let’s get this country a few feet back from the cliff before we start to tackle issues such as this. If the country collapses, the TSA will be the least of our worries.

  • zeezil

    The Law on Illegal Immigration:

    Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, “Improper Entry by Alien,” any citizen of any country other than the United States who:
    - Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
    - Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
    - Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
    has committed a federal crime.

    Immigration and Nationality Act Section 237 (a) (1) (B) :
    “Any alien who is present in the United States in violation of this Act or any other law of the United States is deportable.”

    Statistics on Illegal Immigration:

    ? 850,000 illegal immigrants successfully enter the United States each year
    ? Over the last two decades 1,001,715 LEGAL immigrants were admitted to the U. S, on average, each year. That is more LEGAL immigrants admitted each year than all the rest of the world?s countries admit COMBINED
    ? 90 percent of illegal immigration comes from Latin America, with 70 percent of the total from Mexico
    ? About 80 to 85 percent of the immigration from Mexico and Central America in recent years has been illegal
    ? 10% of Mexico now lives in the United States
    ? 4,300 American citizens lose their lives each year by the actions of an illegal immigrant

    ? Illegal Immigrants cost U.S. taxpayers $113 billion per year; a total sum count of their education, medical, law enforcement and public assistance costs. This is based on a population calculation of 13 million illegal aliens within the U.S. The actual number could actually be as many as 20 million or more
    ? Illegal immigrants receive $4.2 billion in Refundable Tax Credits annually from the IRS
    ? Illegals send $30 billion annually in remittances (transfer of money) to Latin America, $21 billion of which goes to Mexico
    ? The annual total combined impact from illegal immigration is $147 billion dollars

    What about Deportation? (Remember ? every illegal alien is deportable by law)
    Wouldn?t it cost too much to deport all the illegals?
    ? In Dec. 2010, DHS stated to Congress it would cost ?$135 billion to apprehend, detain and remove the nation?s entire illegal immigrant population.?
    ? Therefore, it is less costly to deport all the illegal immigrants from our country than to keep them around ($147 billion negative annual impact to the economy)

  • nathanalbright

    …since I don’t get my news from Faux News (and have been particularly incensed with how Murdoch’s holdings in England have been illegally using police phone taps to engage in political mudslinging. And I don’t go to the Drudge report at all.

  • pdawk

    actually tracks back to an email posted on Politico. I didn’t want to bring up their name if at all possible.

  • pdawk

    That is one of the better zingers of the night. Well done.

  • bobguzzardi

    Rick Perry has excellent ideas to energize and grow America and are politically feasible.

    Hammer his ideas and he will win.

    No other candidate discussed ending any of the federal agencies.

    DeptEducation has “federalized” education to no good end.

    Commerce? what does it do.

    and the third???? I would be thrilled if the first two went.

    Rick Perry’s authenticity is compelling.

  • bobguzzardi

    Rick Perry is a gentleman and his ideas can energize the country and grow our standard of living AND ARE POLITICALLY WORKABLE.

    Rick Perry has introduced more good ideas which are politically challenging but feasible .

    Rick Perry is The Guy.

    If pundits were as smart as they think they are, they would be candidates.

  • bobguzzardi

    Rick Perry is the only candidate who has the ideas and skill to reverse America’s slide toward a European Social Democratic Welfare State.

    Rick Perry introduced a clear and practical idea to eliminate a federal agency. If he said Commerce ( and what does DeptCommerce to other than enable Corporatism) and Dept Ed, I would be thrilled.

    Both are expensive and counterproductive.

  • bobguzzardi

    Rick Perry was making an important policy point and no one has challenged him on substance.

  • angryguy77

    This was the only debate where I saw a mod literally role her eyes because the crowd was applauding a candidate. Kramer talked down to Cain, it was despicable. I don’t care if they acted the same way last night as they do on their shows. Last night was not their show, what I saw was a complete lack of professionalism.

    I’ll agree introducing yourself is a part of the game, but we conservatives know who perry is and what he stands for(for the record, I haven’t committed 100% to perry, cain or newt). The base is what will elect a nominee, and from what I see, the base isn’t any better than the obamabots who faint over their savior.

    We need to beat Romney first, and if we select a candidate based on American Idol rules, we might as well let chairman o win again.

    btw Jefferson wasn’t a good speaker either, it’s a good thing that our ancestors were smarter when it came to selecting their leaders than we are.

  • Scope

    Now you need to have a little talk with your friend Dr. S who seems currently to be trying to talk the Perry supporters into abandoning him. As the Cain Wreck has said “Ain’t gonna happen.”

  • bobguzzardi

    Exactly, there is little talk about Middle East and Iran but it could blow.

    The Europeans are not handling their debt issues much better than we are.

    The Texas Model works; it is not rhetorical fantasy.

  • bobguzzardi

    How many houses does he have?

    Obama’s tactic will be Alinsky’s Have Nots v. Haves and Romney is an iconic “Have”.

    Rick Perry is down to earth.

  • acat

    Remind me why we want to keep spending money on both the Department of Education’s micromanagers, and the school district administrators who answer to D.C. instead of in the classrooms… ?

    It’s in part the failure to teach critical thinking and western history (and half a dozen other pieces of what used to be a ‘classical’ education) that have led us to this dumbed-down state.

    Perry’s flawed. Duh! He’s a human being. Feet (and, evidently, tongue) of clay. Unless the fabled Michael or Gabriel apply for the job, I’ll take Perry.

    He may not be a better debater than Bush 2.0, but he’s got the right strategery.

    We need to end the Blue State model and of the current batch, only Rick Perry is moving in that direction.

    Mew

    * okay, Ron Paul makes noises in that direction but, seriously?

  • paco12348

    Been there, done that and I know how it feels. I support Newt, but I hurt for Perry last night. As far as I’m concerned it should not knock him out of the race. Romney did really well, probably the best of him I’ve seen and Perry did well, regardless of his “senior” moment.
    Newt and Cain still won, with Romney in 3rd and Perry 4th, in my humble opinion.
    I also felt for Santorum. Did he even get a second question?
    I guess it was a feeling night for me. I felt for Paul. He did well as always but will never be elected and he has so very much to offer to this country. I do so hope he will be selected for an important place in the new administration, something to do with getting rid of the Fed. Reserve. In fact, everyone on stage could be placed in the new administration and would’t that be great for the country.

  • acat

    The Blue Model has failed.

    We need something different.

    It used to be said that California leads the nation, but .. in the last decade or so, the only direction Cali has been leading is off a cliff.

    It’s time for a new leading State. It’s time for a new model for government.

    Make mine Texas.

    Mew

  • Scope

    not by a long shot. He called two women, whose names are known, liars on national TV. They will provide evidence in the next day of two. All eyes will be back on Cain shortly.

  • Scope

    because every answer he gave for every question was 999. He made just as much of a laughing stock of himself as Perry.

  • pttx333

    in Siberia? Oh, I get it, this is a huge joke. Ok – it is so noted. Uh huh …

  • Scope

    The DOE is solely responsible for the destruction of millions of jobs in the energy sector. The DOE is solely responsible for the US dependence on foreign sources of oil. The DOE is solely responsible for massive amounts of job and business killing regulations by fiat. Salazar is the perfect picture of all hat and no cattle.

  • Scope

    to be about as reliable as the unemployment numbers put out by this administration.

  • Scope

    He has public speaking skills which everyone knows includes alot of spin, misspeaks, jokes and words backed up with no substance at all whatsoever. 95% of Cain’s vocabulary is 999, and he can’t even explain that.

  • tyman

    Throughout all of the debates all Obama spouted were liberal talking points.

    Oh, and McCain was terrible, so that made Obama look a little better.

    I have no doubt that Perry will go after Obama in debates. Obama’s really tested Perry in Texas, and I think that will come out.

    When Perry came back and said “Department of Energy was the one I was searching for”, I noticed that there was a lot of applause.

  • Scope

    Let’s see how much Cain continues to “surge” in the polls. He has already hit his ceiling, and is crashing in the polls, his negatives now far surpass his positives. When the babes come out with the “smoking gun” to prove him to be lying, yet again, he will be finished off.

  • Scope

    that we all did. Perry named the Dept. of Commerce, the Dept. of Ed, and then forgot the third one. Paul said the EPA, and Perry laughingly agreed, but when pressed said “no sir” that wasn’t the third one. He later named the Dept. of Energy.

    You have been posting this falsity all over here. You are obviously a Paulhead.

  • Scope

    who said the EPA, it was Ron Paul. Like everything else you write, you just don’t seem to be able to get your facts straight.

  • izoneguy

  • carolynr

    I know in my heart that Perry would lead this country away from the mess in DC. I know he has the guts to use the veto pen. I know he has a great tax and jobs plan. I also know he is a genuine person. I also know that the American public is more interested in style rather than substance and that is where Perry loses. There’s no conviction in the USA…we just live for the now. We listen to the best quips and then judge someone…as if we haven’t had the incident that happened to Perry, happen to us and it was not in front of a national audience. My heart goes out to Perry…my heart goes out to me because I know that this country is not based in substance…it doesn’t even know how to judge substance. It’s all about the wrapping…not the present inside. So, as with most of you, I feel very, very sad. I have something from the Perry campaign to answer this AM and I don’t want to because what I have to say is not how I feel but to say that our self-centered, gimme country has not values and that is the reality.

    Romney, as usual gave me a pain in the )*(&). Notice in front of a Republican audience…but in his own home state…he dissed his beloved (depending on who he is speaking to) auto industry. While I concur that they should have gone through bankruptcy proceedings, he again contradicted a previous statement concerning them. I am so sick of his pandering I could vomit.

    Cain – I am done. Really done. He knows that the majority of the younger audience (especially OWS) would go for his 999 plan…the problem is they haven’t figured out they will have to pay also. He plays on the ignorance of people. He used 999 to the point that I wanted to vomit. I did find it rude for CNBC to bring up his “problem”…although checking all of Cain’s statements, he has misled the country badly…with the account of sexual charges and his stupid 999 plan.

    Santorum – Go back and look at the study of the Industrial Revolution. We are supposed to be evolving. How can Michican manufacturing jobs compete with $2 a day pay in Indonesia. Dud.

    Bachmann – She had some good answers…but she is Romney’s choice for VP…again…they played into each other.

    Paul – gave some good answers on the economy – understands what has to be done. However his foreign affairs stance is too radical.

    So, now we are down to who gave the best answers and how they answered them.

    Huntsman – He is very knowledgeable and can out-maneuver Romney and Obama in a debate. This guy is smart. He is also arrogant and smug.

    Newt – Gave some very good answers. Too dictatorial with the moderators – came off mean. Besides that….when asked about the $$$ to Fannie and Freddie…my doubts resurfaced…yep…another sign that he is inside the beltway…which, btw…so is Romney.

    This was Perry’s chance. I can’t see him recovering. Fox News is against him and he is not giving enough air time to explain anything. However, stranger things have happened…people might see him as a “real person” like themselves instead of some political hack.

  • carolynr

    What we see and what the self-centered America sees is a completely different picture. Perry can’t afford to opt out of debates and yet they are like watching American Idol. Look at what America has become.

    BTW…CNBC was biased against Perry concerning the most accepted tax plan…they never asked about the particulars…and this would have helped Perry a lot. He did recover…in fact his answer concerning education was to the point…but by that time…people were focusing on the negative…not the positive.

    We just don’t have another candidate that will do what they say…they are political hacks.

  • pttx333

    We can’t give in to those with no substance! At least I can’t … what we’ve gotta do is SHOW them some substance. Obviously, they’ve not been taught to have any such thing, but, by golly, I’m rarin’ to show ‘em. All is not lost – just take the time to read all of the posts here and ignore the stupid talking pointy heads on tv! Do you really think that the ones on RS who are even stronger in their support are the only ones in this country? Not so much. Chin up, cheer up – it’ll be okay. Keep the faith, dear. Check it out …

  • Menlo

    The fact that people are literally being raped and don’t see that as an “issue” is part of the reason this country is such a dreadful place to be at the moment. I am, like others, very ashamed to be an American. This is most certainly NOT the least of our worries; more people need to care.

  • Menlo

    I will add that it is hardly about “tackling” anything. It can be addressed very quickly with a simple yes or no answer. As President, it’s something he can do himself without Congress. It is not that complex and difficult.

  • changeforrickperry

    Please don’t give up, Miss Carolyn. If George Washington had given up at this point, we’d be paying for gasoline with British pounds.

    We just need to take a deep breath, laugh with Governor Perry, and move on. If we give in to despair then we’re doing precisely what the media and Obama and Romney want us to do. There’s a lot of time between now and Iowa. And remember, too, that there’s another debate on Saturday. From what I’ve gathered, Perry did really well up until he said “Oops.” So obviously his debating skills ARE improving–he just hiccuped. (And besides, the audience was laughing WITH him, and so was Ron Paul. I don’t think I’ve ever seen Ron Paul laugh like that.) If Perry could only take notes on his palm like Sarah Palin did, he has a really good chance of hitting a home run Saturday night.

    Today I’m trying to “rally the troops,” so to speak, to participate in an unofficial money bomb.We’ve started a website (www.changeforrickperry.org) where we’re encouraging Americans to save their loose change for the Perry Campaign. We were inspired by descriptions (here on RedState) of families scrimping and sacrificing. Today our family dumped all the money out of our glass jar and counted out $54.69! It was very exciting, especially for my little brother and sisters, who dumped their own hard-earned pennies in.

    The Perry Campaign needs to know that we haven’t given up on them. Yes, it’ll be okay–yes, Governor Perry can beat this–and yes, keep the faith.
    ——–
    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • changeforrickperry

    Oops, meant to reply to carolynr. Sorry, pttx333!
    ——-
    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • carolynr

    If there is a Perry supporter who will go down to the bitter end…it is me. I
    don’t know if you know this…but I blog for you on the papers just about
    everyday. I am knowledgeable and I know how to make a point.

    In times gone by, I have had to get up on stage and make comments and I have
    frozen. I have gotten better…but this was a community thing…not a national
    televised event. I know what happened…it has happened to me…and when it
    did…it wasn’t because I was dumb or old.

    Here is what you have to look at: The electorate in the United States is
    self-centered and lives in the moment. They are way too interested in the
    wrapping than the present inside the wrapping. They don’t care about
    substance…they care about style. These debates are like the Roman
    Games….the audience cares only for the “gore” not the fact that they are
    watching a inhumane act. You will have to take this into account when you
    consider if this is worth going forward. You are the one to bring this country
    out of its mess…you do have the guts…you don’t pander…you do have a
    record…and as you said…”they don’t want you in DC anymore than the devil
    wants to drink holy water”.

    How can we possibly fix this? You have to get air time…mega air time. You
    have to bring the electorate into your boat. For this you have to forget your
    policies and talk about your human side…how you feel…both about your
    commitment to our country and the fact that there are no perfect people in this
    world. You had a human moment…not because of your age, not because you are
    accused of being dumb…which btw…left-wingers love to make that assertion,
    but because you so badly want to project perfection to help save this country
    that you, like all of us, have to fail to win. Bring out your genuine
    side…talk about you as a person…forget the policies for the time
    being…talk about you, your hopes and dreams for this country and the fact that
    when trying to talk policy with aspiration…you fell short the other night.
    Ask the American people for their vote. Promise them that your policies are
    sound…but more than that…your aspiration is THE MORE DOMINANT FACTOR IN
    SAVING THIS COUNTRY AND THEIR LIVES.

  • retire05

    remember this: elections are won, or lost, depending on the work done by women. It is women who determine outcomes. It is women who get out there and do the heavy lifting. It is women who are dedicated, energetic, and active.

    Go vote and make a note of who most of the poll workers are. Join any campaign, and see who is doing the most. The King Street Patriots, who took on voter fraud in Texas, and now all across the nation, was started by women. On the opposite side, ACORN was basically organized by women.

    So if Perry is your candidate, work for him. Research him. Be able to respond to any criticism of him. Have the facts to debate the falsehoods. Don’t try to change the mind of people who don’t support him using defense techniques. Change the mind of people who don’t support him by pointing out what this nation needs in terms of jobs, fiscal sanity, balanced budgets like every family in the nation must use to survive, laws that sap our Constitutional rights (like the absolute violation of our 4th Amendment rights by the TSA) and what the other candidate’s record on these issues are,

    I would not even use Perry’s excellent record on running a state of over 25 million, or his ability to get the Texas legislature the hell out of the way of the market so that the market will create jobs. If people think you are pandering for one candidate over another, you will turn them off. Voting is an emotional thing, and you have to appeal to that emotion.

    Are they out of a job? Have they considered moving to a place where jobs are available? What state is creating jobs in spite of a down economy? Are they tired of being over taxed? Does their candidate have a record of lowering taxes, allowing them to keep more of what they earn? Do they know the debt per capita in their state? Do they support being taxed to take care of others? How has their candidate governed on welfare benefits, including taxes them to “spead their wealth?” Are they on Social Security? Do they think SS will be there for their grandchildren? Are they tired of being told SS is viable? Do they want the truth, so they can elect candidates that will revamp the system to protect it, or do they want their grandchildren facing higher SS taxes and reduced benefits? IL-legal immigration their thing? Ask them to be specific as to how they would LEGALLY remove 12-20 million people and how they would handle the children of those illegals who are American citizens. The hardliners will say “deport them all.” Ask them if they are willing to pay the taxes required to do that. Ask them if they have watched the Discovery Channel program “Texas Drug Wars.” It is a great program on what Texas, and Governor Perry, is doing to try to protect our pourous borders.

    Point out the weak points of the candidate they are supporting. There is hardly a person in America who hasn’t at least tentatively decided on one candidate or another by now. You have to show them the weakness of the candidate they are learning toward. When you do, even tiny weaknesses become important.

    If someone says to you “Well, I was leaning Perry, but he is such a lousy debater”, point out that one of our most revered presidents, Thomas Jefferson, was a terrible public speaker yet no one has ever said that Jefferson was not brilliant or a bad president and that we have to go back to being value voters, not judges for American Idol. Do not defend Perry, defend the absurdity of these debates that are a recent phenomenon that has, in the past, produced bad choices in presidents.

    Learn the Constitution. Memorize the first ten amendments at least to the point where you can quote, from memory, most of them. Be able to defend them and put them into modern practice.
    And if you encounter those who are die-hard liberals, don’t bother. You will never convince them to change their minds. The only people you can bring into the Perry camp are those who are sitting on the fence.

    You can concede that Fox has greater influence than you do, throwing in the towel to the media, or you can get out and work for the person you know will take us back to the concept of the greatest nation in the world. And remember, all elections are won, or lost, by one vote.

  • Flagstaff

    or I did.

    Cain seemed to be laughing along with them, and vice versa. I didn’t think they were laughing at him.

  • pttx333

    your reply to carolyn (and me LOL) immensely. Miss carolyn will be fine and up and running soon – I’m sure of it. Everyone needs to understand that they are not alone, and they aren’t.

    Thank you!

  • Flagstaff

    out of about twenty possibilities. I’ve done it myself and you have too if you’ve ever had enough opportunity. The mind isn’t a perfect, immediate retrieval system. Note that Perry came up with it in a minute or so as he relaxed.

    It could be argued that Perry is suffering from dementia; otherwise, it’s just a slip of memory, and to me a very understandable one.

  • pttx333

    ,

  • Flagstaff

    The problem for us reasonable people, though, is that the left winged news likes to make big deal about this stuff. We still remember Ford’s mistake about eastern Europe, don’t we? Of course, that was a bit more serious, but since when does the LSM care about “serious”?

  • bobguzzardi

    The Obama campaign will caricature the Republican so, in some ways, it does not matter who that candidate is and, therefore, we should pick the candidate who best represents our values and is, most likely, to do what he said he would do, if elected.

    That is Rick Perry as you see. The media, including Fox, is not our friend. Rick Perry screwed up. It happens to us all. What does this prove?

    On the other hand, you know, President is a Harvard grad, a smart and fashionable guy, unlike him [generic Republican] who is just like the Tea Party, stupid and uneducated people who deny evolution, racist, nativist, homophobic and are mean-spirited fronts for Wall Street?s profit driven Billionaires who won?t share while children starve.. This is the Alinsky tactic of demonizing the opposition

    The campaign against Mitt Romney: ?How many mansions does he have??

    The campaign against Herman Cain: ?How many women has he harassed??

    The campaign against Rick Perry: ?He doesn?t believe in Evolution.?

    The campaign against Newt Gingrich: ?Can you trust him?? Read ?Breach of Trust? by Tom Coburn to find out who Newt Gingrich is and what he did when he had power.

  • bobguzzardi

    Exactly

  • changeforrickperry

    And thank you, as well. Your posts have been enormously encouraging to me. I’m so excited about being on RedState now, because I can talk to you and Scope and avagreen . . . oh, all the Perry supporters, I can’t remember all their names right now. It makes me realize I’m not alone and that I just need to persevere even when things look bleak. Not that I think they look bleak right now–I think all this is making a mountain out of a molehill. But I’ve had some low moments in this campaign, and all the wonderful people at RedState have always given me a boost!

    BTW, Rush is defending Perry this morning. My dad, who listens to Rush at work, says Rush is fired up and taking the MSM to task. Also, Perry will be on David Letterman and Greta van Susteren’s show tonight. That means he’ll be up late . . . I sure hope he rests up tomorrow in preparation for Saturday.
    ——
    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …is that the aforementioned narratives can be conveyed as perhaps having an ounce-of-truth [at least] therein.

    And therein lies the problem to those who are boosting Rick today.

    You must deal with EE’s pronouncements substantively, not merely emotionally.

    When he posts his horserace, I will proffer a specific suggestion….

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …but you haven’t been confronted with the need to create a media-persona, let alone a durable image in the national-mind.

    Now Is The Time For All Good Men To Come To The Aid Of Their Country!

    We need to recognize the entrapment of the MSM/LSM within the debate-format, lick our wounds, and band-together.

    [to be continued]

  • pttx333

    have made! In comparing the four candidates, after reading the negatives for Mitt, Cain and the Newt, and then the negative for Perry is that he doesn’t believe in Evolution? Gasp! Bring on the smelling salts. Let’s see, which one would I choose …. Perry? Yesiree, that dumb, swaggering, all-hat-no-cattle, loves-illegals, wanted-young-girls-to-die cowboy from … EWW! … Texas.

    Yep, Perry is the only one who makes any sense, and I have voted for him for many years – won’t change my mind either.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    The ?WSJ Political Diary? of 11/10/2011provides data that must be scrutinized within the context of this ongoing conversation; it is credible, and it corroborates [in my view] the empiric judgments about which I started typing 12-hours ago [straight].

    Romney and Tax Rates
    If you want to know why Mitt Romney is leading the GOP presidential race, you could do worse than consider his response to moderator John Harwood’s tax reform question at CNBC’s Wednesday night debate. Mr. Harwood tried to pin the former Massachusetts governor down by pointing out that, among the GOP candidates, he was the only one who didn’t have a tax reform plan.

    Question: “You don’t have a flat tax. You’re proposing to preserve the Bush-era tax rates. What is wrong with the idea that we should go to one rate? Why do you believe in a progressive tax system?”

    Mr. Romney blew right past that question to hit his talking points:

    “Well, I would like to see our tax rates flatter,” he said. “I’d like to see our code simpler. I’d like to see the special breaks that we have in the code taken out. That’s one of the reasons why I’d take the corporate rate from 35 [percent] down to 25, is to take out some of the special deals that are there.

    “With regards to our tax code, what I want to do is to take our precious dollars as a nation and focus them on the people in this country that have been hurt the most, and that’s the middle class. The Obama economy has really crushed middle-income Americans. This president has failed us so badly. We have 26 million people out of work or in part-time jobs, that need full-time work or have stopped looking for work altogether. Median incomes have dropped 10% in the last three years. At the same time, gasoline prices are up, food prices are up, health-care costs are up. And so what I want to do is help the people who’ve been hurt the most. And that’s the middle class. And so what I do is focus a substantial tax break on middle-income Americans.”

    Now, there is a professional at work: Dodge the flat-tax debate, pivot to a whack at President Obama, and stress that you share the aspirations of tax reform but first we must cut taxes on “the middle class,” who happen to be most voters.

    This obscures the fact that Mr. Romney is only proposing to cut capital gains and dividend taxes on those Americans, most of whom don’t have many capital gains or dividends. He isn’t proposing to cut their income taxes, though he skillfully left the impression that he is. And in cutting taxes only for the “middle-class,” Mr. Romney is also accepting Mr. Obama’s definition of “the rich.” As for reform, how will we get a flatter, simpler system if the GOP nominee won’t make the case for it?

    Mr. Harwood didn’t follow-up, trying instead to coax Michele Bachmann to challenge Mr. Romney. But Ms. Bachmann lives in her own private Idaho of talking points and missed the moment, as she usually does. None of the other candidates followed up.

    Overall, the debate was another victory for Mr. Romney, who is making no mistakes, while everyone else clamors for a moment in the sun. As Mr. Harwood showed, there’s a debate to be had with Mr. Romney on taxes and tax reform, but so far none of the other candidates are making it.

    – Paul A. Gigot

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    Learning to Love Mitt
    Maria Bartiromo and John Harwood, the moderators of last night’s CNBC Republican presidential debate in Rochester, Mich., waited 20 minutes before broaching the subject of the multiple sexual harassment allegations against Herman Cain that have dominated campaign coverage for more than a week. And when Ms. Bartiromo finally did ask Mr. Cain about the charges, the audience booed. For most of the evening, however, viewers were treated to a serious discussion of the nation’s ongoing economic problems and how the candidates would address them.

    Mitt Romney once again acquitted himself in a manner unlikely to threaten his front-runner status. Relaxed and confident, he said that President Obama is more interested in getting re-elected than in implementing policies that will grow the economy and reduce unemployment. Asked if the U.S. has a role to play in helping Europe through its debt crisis, the former Massachusetts governor replied that Europe was “able to take care of their own problems. We don’t want to step in and try and bail out their banks and bail out their governments. They have the capacity to deal with that themselves.”

    Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s inability to remember the names of cabinet departments that he wants shuttered provided the evening’s most uncomfortable moment. In the spin room after the debate, Mr. Perry acknowledged that he “stepped in it.” His handlers insist that the gaffe was one of “style, not substance,” whatever that means. Even worse for the Perry camp, it is all that will be remembered about the candidate’s performance last night, and possibly about his entire campaign, which may well be over.

    What remains to be seen from the rest of the field is who if anyone will emerge to challenge Mr. Romney. Mr. Cain is trying to put the harassment scandal behind him. Asked last night why people should vote for a candidate with character issues, he said that the “American people deserve better than someone being tried in the court of public opinion based on unfounded accusations.” The sympathetic audience cheered. Still, it’s not likely that Mr. Cain is done answering questions about his tenure in the 1990s as head of the National Restaurant Association, where two women were paid money to leave after complaining about his behavior.

    Mr. Romney has seen other potential rivals — Michele Bachmann, Mr. Perry — spike in the polls and then fade, but he continues to have trouble winning over tea party supporters and conservatives who are especially troubled by the health-care law he signed as governor of the Bay State. Newt Gingrich now seems poised to take advantage of Mr. Cain’s recent troubles. But with the Iowa caucuses less than two months away, Mr. Gingrich is running out of time, as are those Republicans still searching for a Romney substitute.

    – Jason L. Riley

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    Second-Tier Strivers
    Several candidates at last night’s GOP debate had their share of memorable moments — both good and bad. But some notably did not.

    Minnesota Congresswoman Michele Bachmann came across as more substantive than in previous debates. Of the five questions she was asked, the former tax attorney seemed especially comfortable answering questions about the tax code. Still, much of what she said sounded like talking points. Even her line that everyone should at least pay the price of “two Happy Meals” in taxes didn’t seem to resonate with the audience.

    Jon Huntsman also managed to avoid drawing major attention to himself. When the former ambassador to China was asked about China policy, his response seemed confident and direct. Yet when he had the opportunity in a follow up question to call out Mitt Romney directly for pandering with regards to Chinese currency manipulation, he declined to do so. Instead, he remarked, “Well, I’ve said it before. I think that that policy is one of simply pandering, just throwing a tariff on for the sake of an artificially valued currency.”

    Rick Santorum has stayed consistently low in the polls. And his performance last night would lead few people to believe that’s going to change. The former U.S. senator was asked four questions, and none of his responses provoked major applause from the audience. Instead, his replies seemed to slip through the blogosphere and Twitterverse virtually unnoticed. In fact, Mr. Santorum’s most interesting comments of the night came after the debate, when he expressed support for the firing of his alma mater’s head football coach, Joe Paterno of Penn State. He was the only presidential candidate to do so.

    Despite not making any major gaffes, all three of these candidates failed to light the spark that their campaigns so desperately need right now. And with 54 days until the Iowa caucuses, time is running out.

    – Matthew Payne

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    Ohio’s Lessons for Reformers
    Most Republicans are attributing the defeat of Ohio’s collective bargaining reforms this week to a gusher of union spending, but the law might have withstood labor’s barrage had Republicans maintained a united front.

    From the outset, when a GOP state senator first proposed the reforms last winter, Republicans in Ohio were divided over the law. Gov. John Kasich stayed on the sidelines and didn’t meddle in the legislature’s business. The reforms barely passed the state senate, 17-16, with six Republicans opposed. Five state house Republicans also voted against the bill. “This is a fundamentally rigged process,” said state Sen. Bill Seitz, who demanded that the law be repealed. By contrast, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker had taken ownership of his collective bargaining reforms, which received nearly universal support from Republican lawmakers. Mr. Walker had also proposed less sweeping reforms, which exempted public safety employees, in part to ensure party unity.

    Soon after the law passed, Ohio unions initiated a referendum campaign. Gov. Kasich tried to head off the referendum in August by telling the unions that he was willing to strike a compromise on the reforms, ostensibly in return for their dropping the referendum. The unions balked and used the governor’s retreat to bolster their case. “We’re glad that Gov. John Kasich and the other politicians who passed SB 5 are finally admitting this is a flawed bill,” said the referendum’s spokesperson Melissa Fazekas. Meanwhile, many Ohio state lawmakers continued to grumble that the governor had gone too far. The state’s popular conservative talk-radio host, Bill Cunningham, also scored the governor for not negotiating with the unions prior to signing the law and urged listeners to overturn the law.

    One lesson from the Ohio rout is that Republican governors should take ownership of reforms rather than allow state lawmakers to take charge. Another is to prepare and rally the troops before waging a major offensive. Ohio Republican lawmakers were ill-equipped to counter labor’s attacks. Making matters worse, they were betrayed by some in their own ranks. The governor took on a war he wasn’t prepared to fight and paid the price. Unfortunately, the biggest casualty may be taxpayers who would have benefited from the reforms.

    – Allysia Finley

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    Romney remains formidable.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …The Minor-Candidates aren’t likely to arise.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …the emerging anti-Perry is now The Newt.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …the GOP cannot make conscious mistakes when choosing a POTUS-candidate.

  • avagreen

    I’m not gonna join your “anti-Perry” them.

    And, I’m trying to stay polite.

  • avagreen

    **

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …a draft-DeMint proposal.

  • MF

    I appreciate that you place this high on your list. I do not, nor do most others. It is an issue that should be addressed, but it does not come close to the top of my list.

  • pttx333

    hear. There are some wonderful people here, and you will be getting an education that you really can’t receive in any school. Please contact any of us, and we’ll try to help in any way we can. I’m fairly new here also, but it doesn’t take long to get your sea legs because everyone is so helpful and kind – not to mention funny. There is so much information to be found here and is where I come to find it – I know it is going to be truthful, factual and expanded so as to explain each and every detail.

    After the debate the other night, I was so upset with all of the faux hysteria of the pundits that Perry was TOAST and all that rot. So I spent the night zipping around RS trying to locate those who were faltering in their beliefs, trying to comfort if I could. All of that garbage spewing from those who hope to bring us down only serves to make me more determined and indignant, so they will be getting push-back from me to the extent that I can. Guess I sounded like a loon in my posts but I was desperate for those who were down to get back up and fight the devils. As a mass, we can and will do it. And so it continued through the night and I didn’t get to bed until around 9:00 last night when I crashed, burned and fell straight into a coma! Boy, by that time I was really sounding like a drunk on the corner. ;-)

    Our guy Perry did a magnificent job all over the place yesterday. He is such a good man and, to me, it just shines out from him like a beacon. Guess I don’t understand why everyone can’t see it since it is so very obvious to me that HE is different. Oh, and do you know that he had back surgery maybe a month or so before announced his candidacy? I’ve been told that you should not stand for too long for many months after such, and that the surgery is accompanied by muscle spasms in the back that have to be excruciatingly painful. I do not know how he has done anything, much remain as our Governor, battle b.o., the wildfires, AND run a campaign. No other person on that stage with him even has a job except Paul and Bachmann, but they don’t ever go there. So I know full well why he has stumbled on some of his answers, but I’ve been amazed that he hasn’t fallen over on the floor from pain and exhaustion!

    Thanks for your nice post, change. I’ll be happy to talk to you any time you wish to do so and will enjoy every minute of it!

  • changeforrickperry

    I’d be insanely jealous of you Texans. You have an awesome leader! When Governor Perry first starting talking about running for President, I was on top of All Things Perry from then on. I read his book, I combed the Internet, I followed his Twitter–my siblings started teasing me and saying I was stalking him. So yes, in answer to your question, I knew he’d had back surgery. I think it’s neat that he used his own stem cells rather than sacrifice an innocent embryo. To me, that was serious proof of his solid pro-life beliefs.

    There are so many things I appreciate about Perry, from defending unborn babies to leading the border war to standing up to Obama. As a homeschool graduate, too, I really appreciate his friendliness towards homeschooling. There are SO many good things about him, they totally outweigh any objections people may have about him. I’ve heard them all–Gardasil, in-state tuition, Trans-Texas Corridor, blah blah blah–and though I may not agree with him on those issues I’m not going to throw him out the window. And I certainly won’t throw him out over a simple “Oops!”

    I’m so excited about the way he’s handled his brain snap. His Top Ten List on Letterman was hysterical. And then it’s so funny to hear Mary Matalin and Rush Limbaugh admitting they have brain snaps, while that holier-than-thou Chris Wallace slams Perry and then forgets Perry’s name on live television. Pride goeth before destruction!

    Thanks for inviting me to talk with you, pttx333. I’m looking forward to helping you and others rally the troops!
    ____________________________________________________________
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts.”–Winston Churchill

    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • pttx333

    and will one day be on the national stage. He just needs more age and experience under his belt, then he’ll be good to go.

    Oh, no, Perry would never have considered embyronic cells. That isn’t who he is. He walks the talk all the way down the line. BTW, love the story about your siblings accusing you of stalking Perry – how cute is that!

    Just remember, change, all of the smears that you hear out there about Perry are because Perry is who they fear the most. From the moment Perry announced they were all over him like white on rice, because they fear him – he is their main threat. Who are these folks? Libs, RINOs, ambulance chasing lawyers (because of the tort reform law Perry signed into law), Rove and the Bushies (just like in the last Governor’s race because they support Kay Bailey Hutchison), of course b.o. and his administration, the Lord only knows who else. Now, why would the RINOs not support a true conservative even though they are Republican? Because they are the McCain/Romney types who are like a windsock, they go whichever the way is going to win – simply because they want to feather their own nests and have their own little fiefdoms. Aren’t they just too special? So, remember, Republican does not mean one is conservative, but conservative are Republicans. Dems years ago were conservative, but decades ago began to morph into the slippery slope of socialism which is rot, decay until there is communism/Marxism. How nice. Barf! And phooey on them all!

    Glad you liked Perry on Letterman. Saw it earlier and am still laughing – that is just who Perry is – one of a kind and a total hoot. Oh, and a little trivia – did you know he has played drums with ZZ Top and plays the piano, Beethoven, no less? How’s that?

    Look me up anytime, change. I’ll be around. If for some reason sometime I don’t reply, it will only be because I missed your post. Just do it again. Okie dokie? Thanks for writing!

  • changeforrickperry

    I didn’t know he played the drums (sorry, I don’t know who/what ZZ Top is :D ) although I did read in that article about his parents that he wanted a drum set when he was in high school. Isn’t that amazing that he can play Beethoven? Wow…I play piano but I can’t play Beethoven. I find it so funny that the media wants to portray him as a “dumb Texan,” but the fact he plays and listens to Beethoven is proof positive that he’s very intelligent. Not only that, but I started reading Friedrich Hayek’s “The Road to Serfdom” after I heard both Ron Paul and Rick Perry loved it. Ever flipped through it? That is a HARD book–the kind where you have to read one sentence two or three times before you understand it. And Rick Perry likes that book!

    I know what you mean about how “they” fear Perry. You can tell by the way “they” react to anything he does. Remember when he came out with his tax plan? Remember who immediately responded to it? Obama himself! Now–if Perry was so low in the polls, and if he was really doing so poorly, why on earth would Obama treat him like a contender? And why on earth would Romney continue to go after him, and not Gingrich or Cain? Hmmm…maybe polls aren’t so reliable after all.

    About my siblings…they’re lots of fun. Yeah, they tease me, but they’re as much on board as I am. My baby sister (2 years old) loves watching Perry’s campaign ads, and she goes crazy whenever she sees him on TV. I get encouragement just from watching my siblings donating their hard-earned pennies. Surely there are other children who are just as eager as they are–that’s what excites me.

    ?The little bodies of children are the repositories of the greatness of a future age. And they must be encouraged, must eat from the tales of those who?ve gone before, and brandished their swords, and slayed dragons.? So quoth Peggy Noonan in “When Character Was King”–a great book about Ronald Reagan. I love this quote because it reminds us how important children are to our future.
    ____________________________________________________________
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts.”–Winston Churchill

    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • pttx333

    Hope this comes through, video of ZZ Top, a very popular group from Texas that has been around a long time. Your siblings get a bang out of ‘em and baby sister will be dancing her little feet off. Will write another reply after this:

  • pttx333

    while I reply. Yep, I’m a senior but love rock ‘n roll since I grew up with Elvis. Favorite song is “Heard It Through the Grapevine” by Marvin Gaye. Look for it on youtube.

    You nailed it, change! Polls are NOT reliable – there are only a few that are, and I wonder about them sometimes. You do know that polls can be skewed, don’t you? It is several things; i.e., the people you ask, the way the questions are worded and so on. Sorta like the example question of “When did you stop beating your wife?” Now, really, how do you answer that one? And, particularly, polls now change daily with the wind because there is no firm barometer to hang on to.

    As for Romney, I suspect that weasel of many shenigans. He has boatloads of money personally, numerous mansions, etc. Now, there is nothing wrong with that, but he is so untrustworthy that it isn’t funny. I wouldn’t trust him to even babysit a kitty cat. How’s that?

    Yes, children are only important to our future, they ARE our future. That is why education, proper training, etc. are absolutely imperative – always.

    Later, change. Hope you enjoy the video! At least you will know who ZZ Top is and can converse with us old folks! HA