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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Michael Medved Rejects Conservatives and Embraces Romney

I wrote that if Mitt Romney wins conservatism would lose. Michael Medved has taken to the Wall Street Journal to prove my point, as well as call out both Rush Limbaugh and me. Through his various straw men, Michael Medved does two things.

First, he claims that the GOP will win by being centrist, not conservative.

Second, he claims “electability” cannot be an argument against Mitt Romney.

Let me deal with the second point first. It is the one Medved danced around and the one that gets to the heart of Romney’s flaw. He has lost every single race he has ever run in except one and then could not run for re-election in 2006 because he was sure to lose and couldn’t take getting to the Republican Presidential primary field having his immediate prior election count as a loss.

On Medved’s second point, he posits as proof the GOP must reject conservatism in favor of centrism with the fact that McCain ran ahead of Republicans at the state and congressional level. Two can play that game. On Romney’s electability, an argument Medved must necessarily gloss over to prove his guy is the guy who can win, consider Jonathan Last’s point:

Romney was preceded by Jane Swift, Paul Cellucci, and Bill Weld.

Weld was elected in 1990 with 50.19 percent of the vote. He won reelection in 1994 with 70.85 percent.

Cellucci, who stepped in for Weld, won his own term in 1998 with 50.81 percent of the vote.

Swift, who stepped into office for Cellucci, did not run because the state party pushed her aside for Romney in 2002.

I’m not suggesting that a Republican winning the governorship of Massachusetts isn’t impressive–it is! But it’s worth understanding that Romney’s 49.77 percent of the vote in 2002–a generally very good year for Republicans nationally–was the worst showing for a Republican gubernatorial candidate in the state in a decade.

So in a very good year for Republicans, Romney’s win was “the worst showing for a Republican gubernatorial candidate in the state in a decade” and in the best year for the GOP in 40 years, 1994, Mitt Romney was 17 points behind Ted Kennedy.

If past performance is the best indicator of future success, Mitt Romney will not be very successful.

But let’s deal with Medved’s first point — that conservatives have to give up conservatism to win.

I’d note that Medved’s argument shows exactly why we cannot nominate Mitt Romney. I reject that we will lose with a more conservative candidate, but I flat out know and this piece confirms that if Romney gets the nomination his supporters will sell out conservatism convinced doing so is necessary to win. How much damage will Mitt Romney do to conservatism if he is the nominee? Consider Medved.

Rush Limbaugh’s favorite slogan, “Conservatism wins every time,” is more a statement of wishful thinking than an accurate summary of electoral experience. It’s true that Ronald Reagan’s inspiring, comprehensive conservatism brought two sweeping victories (in 1980 and ’84). But the same supremely gifted candidate lost two prior runs for the presidency (in 1968 and 1976) to two charismatically challenged, moderate rivals, Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford.

Yeah, damn that Ronald Reagan. He should have sold out and he’d have been more successful. That is, in fact, what Medved seems to advocate — selling out.

The notion that ideologically pure conservative candidates can win by disregarding centrists and magically producing previously undiscovered legions of true-believer voters remains a fantasy. It is not a strategy.

I don’t know anyone who has actually made that argument. What I and other conservatives advocate is that we must draw a contrast with Obama. Conservatism sells itself in such a contrast. We woo centrists, moderates, and independents on our ideas. When Reagan won in 1980 he moderated his tone, but he did not moderate his positions.

Medved points to Goldwater as proof that conservatism gets rejected by voters. Well, Goldwater sold conservatism as destroying the welfare state, cutting off social security checks, etc. Goldwater ran as a bomb thrower. It was not Goldwater’s positions, but his willful selling of his positions as proudly turning out the poor and elderly that allowed Johnson to build a wedge against Goldwater.

Michael Medved, though, uses turnout data in 2008 to try to make his case:

Moreover, in the general election Mr. McCain ran ahead of the Republican ticket in every region of the country. He drew 7,750,000 more votes than did GOP candidates for the House of Representatives, winning 45.7% compared to 42.5% for his GOP running mates. Mr. McCain captured 49 congressional districts where the Republican candidates who ran alongside him lost. If GOP nominees had performed as well as Mr. McCain in those districts, the Republicans would have won a House majority of 227 and John Boehner would have become speaker two years earlier.

Contested statewide races for governor and U.S. Senate seats told a similar story, with Mr. McCain running ahead of the Republican ticket in 61% (28 of 46). In most of the few cases where statewide candidates outperformed Mr. McCain, the GOP ran veteran office holders (Lamar Alexander in Tennessee, Lindsey Graham in South Carolina, Susan Collins in Maine, Jon Huntsman in Utah, Jim Douglas in Vermont) with even more pragmatic, centrist reputations than Mr. McCain. Across the country, his performance justified the main practical rationale for his nomination as he won literally millions of votes that other more stridently conservative candidates failed to get.

Just as a short cut to the larger point, I think Medved is mixing apples and oranges. 2008 was a terribly bad year for the GOP across the board, following up on a terribly bad year in 2006.

It is true that McCain ran ahead of many, many Republicans in many other races, but let’s also not forget that he had to put Sarah Palin on the ballot to get conservatives to even take him seriously.

Let’s also not forget he was running against Barack Obama. No one else was. McCain picked up Democrats and independents who might just have voted for Hillary Clinton, but could not stomach Barack Obama. Let’s also not forget that as people go further down the ballot, voting falls off. In many cases in most years votes fall off from the top race on the ballot to those of House races. In states across the country, state wide races are typically listed ahead of other races. House races, not being state wide, are below President, Governor, and others. Likewise, some people do just go vote for President. It is a consistent pattern. Saying McCain drew 3.2% more votes compared to U.S. House candidates may be because he was less conservative or it could be fall off in voting or it could be Sarah Palin.

We’re talking 3.2% in an otherwise terrible year for Republicans. But Medved notes McCain also ran ahead of statewide Republicans in 61% of races with only Republicans with “pragmatic, centrist reputations” running ahead of McCain. The word Medved explicitly did not use was “incumbents.” The people he explicitly cites were incumbents.

In other words, people with higher name identification did better than people with lesser name identification. Moreso, the Republican nominee for President of the United States did better than the Republican nominee for Governor of various states up for re-election. That does not mean that John McCain’s centrist positions won. That means John McCain was running for President of the United States as opposed to Public Service Commissioner for District 4 or some such.

But back to Medved’s specific point — the GOP needs to abandon its conservatism and go with centrism. I’d point out that McCain bounced after the GOP convention and with Palin’s addition, both of which energized conservatives. Then there is the point Medved does not make and kind of throws a wrench in his argument.

In 2008, Rudy Giuliani led John McCain headed into primary season. So you had the two guys perceived as “not conservative” leading in a party dominated by conservatives (putting aside that John McCain is and has always been pro-life, unlike Mitt Romney). Why? Because the primary and general election in 2008, at least for Republicans and a significant number of independent voters, continued to be about the future conduct of America in the War on Terror. Those races where McCain ran ahead of other Republicans? Forget ballot drop off, incumbency, etc. None of those people were actually on the ballot to be Commander-in-Chief. John McCain was.

Michael Medved posits that moderation or centrism wins. I reject that and I don’t think Medved makes a very persuasive case. The Republican Party won 1988 as Reagan’s third term and the nation rejected George H. W. Bush and his moderate tax hikes in 1992 for a guy who ran proclaiming the era of big government over. If you look at the history of Republican candidates in just the past few decades, the GOP nominated George H. W. Bush, Bob Dole, George W. Bush, and John McCain. Only two of them ran as conservatives and won and when George H. W. Bush rejected that, he lost.

Conservatives are not out to run ideology pure candidates who blow off the center. They are out to run a candidate who will sell conservatism in a way that draws in the middle. The GOP will not win with Mitt Romney, who starts by blowing off the Republican base and its values to begin with.

But good for Michael Medved giving the party line. And thanks for pointing out just who ready and willing Romney supporters are to throw conservatism under the bus.

COMMENTS

  • heraklios

    start getting signatures for ballot access and other preliminary organization so maybe we can get the GOP Establishment’s attention before it’s too late.

  • tailfins1959

    I just heard in on Limbaugh. Romney referred to the Lowell Sun in the quote.

  • jkines

    I’m wondering how many other establishment Republicans will take to the op-ed pages in a futile attempt to reconstruct and rationalize Romney as a principled Conservative we should all consider ourselves lucky to have. It would be maddening if it wasn’t all so pathetic. . .

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    to win.

  • heraklios

    and establish a Conservative Party (i.e. like in Canada, Britain, Austrialia) firmly based in the South, Great Plains and Mountain West, devoted to limited government, low taxes, individual rights, national security and a moral and just Christian based society, and just let all of the Wall Street/statist/big government oligarchs (i.e. Mitt Romney, Michael Medved, Peggy Noonan) either join with the Democrats or go their own way.

  • wacowboy

    If Romney is the nominee, the only way he wins is if americans fire BO. I don’t see that happening. people will choose the devil they know over the devil they don’t. Not that I want another 4 years of bo, far from it. It is just what I see happening if Romney is the nominee.

    we’re stupid because the GOP establishment hasn’t figured out after 30+ years that principled conservative candidates win elections. squishy “moderates” don’t.

    This is why I’m going to do whatever I can to see that Rick Perry gets the nomination. America would be better off if it became more like Texas.

    on another note, as much as it pains me to speak of it, what if Obama wins? I don’t think we’ll have a country left to fight for if he does. That’s also why if mitt is the nominee I’ll work to get him elected, even though I know he’ll sell me out. at least Mitts won’t drive us off the cliff at 100 mph — he’ll slow us down to 40 or so.

  • Castor

    IF he becomes the nominee;
    1.Obama
    2. A four letter word – IRAN

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Self-described centrists in one year are not the same from election to election in terms of their policy preferences.

  • heraklios

    …..

  • curtmilr

    The entire quote was that the illegals would be allowed to apply under existing application standards. Romney did not say he was for amnesty, and neither did Newt or Perry. All have indicated that a pathway to citizenship should be allowed, but there should be no preferential treatment for those here illegally.

    There’s maybe a dime’s worth of difference between the three on this issue.

    Romney’s not my guy, but I’d vote against Obama if Romney is the candidate!

  • heraklios

    but do it by voting for someone other than Romney…vote for an actual conservative….I’m sure there will be one to vote for

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    –no.text–

  • heraklios

    If so, then I’m definitely in the RIGHT place…

  • heraklios

    If so, then I’m definitely in the RIGHT place…

  • Return to Revolution

    I’ve listened to him a fair bit ever since 1210 booted Beck and Hannity (the choices at 3:00 in Philly now are Medved and Smerconish). Medved kills me because he sounds pretty solid at times, then turns and drools over a McCain or a Romney. Of course, radio apps are the best way around this problem, but don’t work on my phone half the time. I still enjoy Medved’s specials on history, which are excellent, but those only happen around holidays.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    If you can’t vote for the Republican nominee to beat Obama, you’re a worthless RiNO squish.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Your half a vote for Obama (if the Republican candidate is Romney) isn’t really welcome at a site trying to elect Republicans.

  • partyof1

    Yes, Mitt Romney won’t drive us off a cliff so fast. He’ll take it nice and slow. The tea party fire that burned so hot under Obama will slowly cool, and we’ll all feel quite comfortable as we gently ease over the cliff at 40 mph or so.

    And the water won’t boil right away so the frog won’t jump out. He’ll stay in the pot as the temperature slowly rises.

  • heraklios

    there will be millions of Republicans who won’t be voting for the nominee

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    …wouldn’t you…. Sorry, I laugh every time I see you write that, but only because you could easily do the same with me.

  • heraklios

    You are telling conservatives they are supposed to go against their beliefs and principles? For what?

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Forget to close a tag, that is.

  • Repair_Man_Jack

    It’s like patriotism. It’s just a phony construct. (sarcasm off)

  • wacowboy

    I say that there is very strong evidence that centrists and independents don’t really vote on issues. They vote on leadership and stability. They’ll gladly take a guy they disagree with some but know what to expect over a guy they just don’t know what to expect of him.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    In my experience, people who use the “I’m going with my principles” statement don’t have any.

    Obviously if the site policy is “Conservative in the Primary, Republican in the General”, then there will be times when we’re supporting a Republican that isn’t conservative. If we only ever support conservatives, then the policy would be “Conservative in the Primary, Conservative in the General.” There are other places online that follow that policy. This isn’t one of them.

  • heraklios

    Apparently, he agrees with me then? The only problem I have is that I want a different name. If you are going to call me a RINO then we need some distinction between people like me (and Neil) who are to the right of the GOP and others like Mitt who are to the left. I don’t want to be lumped in together with the lefties.

  • Common_Cents

    Here is where the debate over the gray line lies.

    Electability.

    As conservative as you can with a minimum of electability as you can.

    That is what creates the endless debate, hehe.

  • haroldhervey

    Those who try to impose a “Perry or Nothing” approach on this website should become liberal Democrats. That’s the type of thought police stuff they always do. I thought Redstate was a forum for exchanging ideas not just a Perry home page.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Perry ain’t my guy. I’m not God either, but I play a demi-god at work. It’s not my problem you and heraklios can’t read.

  • Aaron Gardner

    hahahahhahahah

    ohohohohooh my sides…

    hahahah

    haha

    heh

    ah

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Geez….it was a joke. People have completely lost their sense of humor around here lately. And your half a vote for Obama (if you stay home or vote 3rd party) makes you even more of a lefty than voting for Romney would.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    It’s RedState’s.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    =no.text=

  • Aaron Gardner

    ;)

  • lucasblack

    If Romney gets the nomination, he’ll get my support. Not really enthused about him, but certainly enthused to get rid of Obama. I thought McCain was definitely the right person for 2008 but here in 2012, I think we can get someone a bit more to the right, and that’s Newt for me. I can’t stand when people tell me who I MUST support. That just makes me want to vote for someone else that much more.

  • partyof1

    heraklios I agree with you on Romney, but founding another party is not the way to go because eventually it would just mutate into what the Republican party is today, half assed conservatism more concerned with winning elections than acheiving conservative objectives.

    The descrption you posted of your ideal party is the Republican party platform! The problem is Republicans don’t follow it. We can’t take off, we have to take over.

    The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which

    The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which

  • RichmondG30

    Once again Erick sits down to write a lengthy essay trashing Romney and someone who supported him. I don’t particularly care for Romney, but I am at a loss to offer a viable alternative.

    Clearly Erick has an alternative, or else he wouldn’t be trying to destroy the front-runner. Please Erick, enlighten us.

    WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST? Be specific. Who will win not only the Republican primary, but also go on to win the General Election.

    I’M ALL EARS! Don’t keep me in suspense any longer. Tell me who and how for goodness sake.

  • federalfarmer1

    I don’t trust mitt, I think hell be in wall streets pockets and fail to enact any meaningful reform or advance any conservative cause. But every gop nominee knows they can’t screw up scotus picks. Nothing demoralizes the base more than that. Without a doubt, romney will pick better court judges than Obama. Also, Perrys record of appointing judges is very mediocre, especially for Texas.

  • heraklios

    look at William J. Brennan (Eisenhower); Harry Blackmun (Nixon), John Paul Stevens (Ford) and David Souter (Bush). All liberal judges; all appointed by liberal/RINO Presidents

  • supergirl2911

    Did anyone say that about the MANY people who sat out 2008 because of McCain or VOTED for Obama.
    I made calls for McCain and heard the stories. Many people were staying home or changing parties.

  • supergirl2911

    Personally

  • heraklios

    yet we’re willing to push them away again in 2012. What happens to the GOP long term if these people decide to stay away for good?

  • supergirl2911

    moves to the left. I use our current culture to use as an example.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    If theyvoted 3rd party or stayed home in 2008, they were a lefty, because that was half a vote for Obama.

  • supergirl2911

    Perry has the experience and record to win.

  • federalfarmer1

    The growth of conservative legal groups like the federalist society. We have a very deep bench of conservative, well respected legal scholars. It’s a completely different ball game.

    Self righteous jerks who couldn’t do a cost benefit analysis to survive two rounds of monopoly are the problem with the conservative grass roots and why the tea party is doomed to failure. You always favor the conservative alternative, but you NEVER stay home.

  • heraklios

    to vote for Fred Thompson or Mike Huckabee had they been on the ballot

  • heraklios

    1992 Clarence Thomas, G.H.W. Bush felt like he had to nominate Thomas because he needed a black jurist to replace Thurgood Marshall. Bush also appointed Souter so he was at best unreliable.

    2005 Roberts and Alito. Remember that G.W. Bush wanted Harriet Miers who jurisprudence was totoally unknown instead of Alito. Only tremendous pressure from the conservative base forced him to fold his tent and nominate Alito.

    3 for 3 since 1991 but it hasn’t been easy even when we had GOP Presidents.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    I’d say they aren’t reliable voters anyway, and we should be looking elsewhere.

    It’s like trying to convince Ron Paul supporters. They aren’t going to vote (R) in the General election anyway, so why waste the effort?

    Here are my past votes for President:

    Carter (1980), Reagan (1984), Bush (1988), Bush (1992), Dole (1996), Bush (2000), Bush (2004), McCain (2008).

    Tell me who the lefty is, me who voted for Carter 31 years ago and then (R) every election thereafter, or those that stayed home in 2008? I go with the latter. And I’m willing to bet the next Republican Presidential candidate is going to be much more interested in my vote with has been reliable for decades, than the ones that stay home and throw a temper tantrum when they don’t get their way.

  • In The Hook

    Perry’s candidacy is as close to over as it gets.

    I think Erick has seriously gone over the edge with this constant drum-beating against Romney, especially since he’s publicly stated that he believes he’s going to be the nominee. Well if you think that and you want to adhere to the rule of “Republican in the general no matter what” why are you trashing him?

    I’m not a Romney fan in general. But I like him over the alternatives who have no chance of winning (Bachmann, Santorum) the crazy (Paul) the unqualified (Cain), the terrible campaigner (Perry), the just-as-phony-but-with-more-personal-baggage (Gingrich) and the irrelevant (Huntsman).

    Does that mean Romney is my candidate by default? I guess so. Would I love it if we could run people like Jindal, McDonnell or Rubio who are conservative but also appeal to the middle? Definitely. Is that happening? No.

  • concrusade

    Based on our current pathetic lot of candidates, I don’t see how to get excited about anyone. But I don’t think it does us any good to attack the one Repub., RINO or not, that actually stands a chance to beat Obama.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    If your vote can’t be counted on the candidates will look elsewhere. It’s a wonder that people don’t understand this. If conservatives will only support they Party when they get their way, why wouldn’t you tailor your campaign towards those that will vote consistently for the Party even when they don’t? If it’s me, I’m interested in the latter, not the former.

  • In The Hook

    The center has moved to the left on issues like gay marriage over the years but has moved to the right on abortion. If there has to be a trade-off I’ll take the one that saves the lives of unborn children.

  • heraklios

    I voted Bush (1988); Dole (1996); Bush (2000); Bush (2004) and McCain (2008). As you can see, I’ve been played by the GOP several times because all of those candidates claimed the mantle of conservatism. Enough is enough. Conservatives have bitten their tongues enough times over the past 25 years. It is time we have one of us be the nominee!

  • In The Hook

    He sat down with Nancy Freaking Pelosi and cut ads on global warming. He supported the individual mandate on a national level. He publicly blasted the Ryan plan.

    To me, Newt is basically on par with Romney when it comes to squishiness. The only difference is that Romney doesn’t have the personal baggage. What a great tiebreaker…

  • irishgirl

    I know that I, myself, fit this scenario.

  • RichmondG30

    At least you’re telling everyone who you are FOR, and not just trying to destroy one guy you are AGAINST.

    I just don’t find Erick’s tirades helpful at all.

    Perry’s not a bad choice, as long as he continues to have solid debate performances like last night.

  • supergirl2911

    Perry is at 10-11 nationally. He went up more than Cain in a recent poll, yet the MSM covered Cain’s rise.
    Perry is not a terrible campaigner. He made a few mistakes, but nothing fatal. He also has the strength of character to say oops or I’m sorry. Unfortunately, Newt was walking back his comment one minute after the debate last night.
    Furthermore, the idea of running someone else, well that person would have warts and wounds and they would be exposed.
    At the end of the day, Perry is the best choice of conservative candidates. Gingrich will not stand up to the fire and cannot be characterized as conservative. Cain does not have the substance, in my opinion. Romney is not conservative and will not win against Obama. Imagine all the MSM finally vetting Romney while simultaneously turning their guns on him, rather than Bachmasn, Perry, Cain? Because it has not happened yet. The worst he has gotten that I have seen is a few questions regarding his change of record from friendly interviewers.
    Furthermore, it will be a shame if this year is wasted with the TP momentum and current state of affairs.

  • heraklios

    are more conservative than Romney and all could win if conservatives would unite behind one of them. All are sufficiently knowledgeable about the issues and are at least minimally acceptable in how they present their ideas.

    The argument that there is no one else doesn’t hold water.

  • http://www.planettron.com NickDeringer

    He supported McCain in 2008.

  • Scope

    According to zoological research, when the pot of water is heated to a particular temperature, the frog does in fact try to jump out, and is successful provided there is no lid on the pot to hold it in.

    I like to think of those of us that support more conservative candidates as the frogs that are trying to jump out of the pot, but, it is those like Medved, and others supporting his ideas, are acting as the lid on the pot that will prevent us from escaping death by boiling.

  • federalfarmer1

    You have a responsibility to God and your fellow citizens to use the authority you have to project life and the safety of your neighbor. If you don’t do that, you own the results. Period.

  • monty2

    but it’s all been said before. It still doesn’t answer the question, if not Romney then who? When all the fatally flawed are eliminated I think it’s going to have to come down to Rick Santorum.

  • changeforrickperry

    Tell that to John McCain, who was dragging his luggage through the airport around Thanksgiving 2007 ;)

    Also, in 1976 Ronald Reagan’s candidacy was all but over until the primaries started, and then he gave Gerald Ford a run for his money. He didn’t get the nomination, but he made a dent in The Establishment’s universe.

    May God save us from a repeat of 1976, when Republican voters realized five minutes too late that they’d nominated the wrong guy.

  • changeforrickperry

    (though I adore Ronald Reagan). Just pointing out that you can’t declare a candidacy dead by the Omniscient And Omnipotent Polls. Wait until votes start coming in and then we’ll be talking about some cold hard facts. The primaries will tell all.

  • gator_hoo

    Anyone? Bueller?

  • concrusade

    Are we kidding ourselves?! Are we seriously saying that Jon Huntsman is conservative? I don’t know who keeps promoting this idea, but it has got to stop before we all lose all credibility.

  • heraklios

  • heraklios

    what is it about him that’s not conservative?

  • adamd

    Erick is spot on about Romney’s numbers. He has barely won one election. Sure Massachusetts is a heavy Democratic state, but starting with Weld the state has had several Republican governors. The year he lost to Kennedy by 17% he was well financed and that year was one of the best years ever for Republicans nationwide. Republicans knocked off liberal icons like Mario Cuomo, the Speaker of the House Tom Foley, Dan Rostenkowski, Ann Richards and Harris Wofford.that night.

    Ultimately what will doom Romney is Romneycare. America has rejected Obamacare and although Romney says he will repeal it, the true is Romneycare is the blue print for Obamacare.

  • http://www.dirkworld.com dirkbelig

    I listen to him every day and while he is predictably blue-nosed over pop culture stuff – I was one caller away from taking him to the woodshed over his anti-videogame stand when Fox News was misrepresenting Mass Effect as a “sex simulator” – I find him generally adequate until he gets all Nervous Nancy about opposing invaders or socialism. Then he wets himself bleating that unless we pander to Hispanics and grant amnesty to invaders and refuse to mention Obama’s radical anti-American, Alinskyite views because that’s like being a Birther, we’ll lose. Yeah, right. Coming from the guy who prides himself on endorsing McLame ahead of everyone else, it’s weak cheese. He also thinks everyone is too “angry” to appreciate the cool competence of Romney.

    I’m more baffled about Ann Coulter’s flip toward support Romney after swearing at CPAC last year that unless Chris Christie was then nominee, it’d be Romney and we’d lose. With her rabid hatred for Newt, it smacks of rationalization. I just wish she’d cop to it and say, “Mitt’s no conservative, but he’s the least awful of the bunch.

  • MF

    I know heraklios is principled and conservative and all that, but this statement is worthy of banning on RS. (And I’m about as conservative as they come, so I would certainly feel the pain when marking a ballot for Romney, but I also know a losing strategy when I see one.)

  • concrusade

    But how in the world do we reconcile the fact that Mr. Oops would have to go head-to-head with Obama? He’s only had to talk 10-20 minutes at most in each of these debates — in a head-to-head, we’d all be on a white-knuckle ride for 45-60 minutes.

    In a debate-less election, Perry’s our guy.

  • sadams

    to rebut Medved’s assertion that McCain did not lose significant conservative support in the general election: ttp://ns.umich.edu/new/releases/7713. Here is the money quote: “Nearly one in four respondents who self-identified as 2004 Bush voters did something other than vote for McCain in 2008. Fifteen percent of these Bush voters voted for Obama in 2008. Another 7 percent chose not to vote at all, the ANES data showed.” So, while possibly 15 percentage points of the quarter of 2004 Bush voters that didn’t vote for McCain chose to vote for Obama in 2008 (the mind boggles), there were nearly another 10% who either stayed home or voted for third party candidates. That 10%, folks, is enough to swing an election. No study is conclusive, of course, but we don’t have to swallow Medved’s selective empiricism in order to offer a reasoned rebuttal.

  • heraklios

    .

  • bzip

    The answer is right in front of everyone’s eyes and ears but most are so stupid that we will get what we deserve.

    There is only one true consistent conservative running in the race. He has over 10 years of governing experience, record and has never lost an election. You could not ask for a better candidate and don’t give the nonsense of poor debating (he is doing wonderful and is improving each time and doing better then most in these debates). He is great at interviews, stump speeches and rallying the troops behind him. He did an excellent job in last night’s debate. He doesn’t have the enormous baggage that others have.

    He has a great vision good conservative principles, values and wonderful policies: Energy Plan, tax plan, uproot Washington, you couldn’t ask for a more conservative better candidate.. And don’t give me the nonsense he isn’t polling well. With over 60% of the base not committed yet and the resources Perry has there is no stopping him – if people would get behind him.

    Will the conservatives wise up and get behind the only consistent conservative that can win or will they be stupid and we end up with Obama.

    Let me leave you all with an inspiring rallying speech by Gov. Rick Perry in his reelection big in August 2010:

    Sean Hannity Freedom Concert 03
    http://youtu.be/aZCorLNHrwE

    .

  • Bill S

    The next time you promote the creation of a third party, you will be banned from this site. The posting rules specifically forbid it. Redstate is a conservative AND Republican site.

    This is not up for discussion. Either stop or leave.

  • concrusade

    Civil unions for gays.
    Global warming.
    Cap and trade.
    Driver’s licenses and tuition for illegals.

    And he’s uninspiring, not-funny, and the only reason he has the means to run ads/campaign is because daddy is footing the bill.

    To his credit, he’s still better than Paul.

  • jkines

    even libertarian republicans such as myself realize that we will only be able to defeat the left by seeking common ground within the big tent of the republican party. We don’t need to leave the party we need to take it over. That means, neoconservatives, paleoconservatives, libertarians, social conservatives et al need to unite around our similiarities, work to overcome our differences, and realize that all of us have the same principled opposition to the statist leviathan, even if we at times disagree with regards to the details of said opposition.

  • Bill S

    I have no issue with someone saying”so-and-so isn’t a conservative” but we have a big issue with someone saying “if the GOP doesn’t nominate someone who is sufficiently conservative, we should vote for someone else.” That is the issue…

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    just saying

  • sunshinek67

    wth is wrong with how we decide candidates for the highest office in the land, free leader of the world, commander in chief over our armed forces….who delivers the best (maybe a lie) soundbite? Your opinion, shared by a vast majority of Americans it would appear, is what is wrong with American politics!

  • sunshinek67

    !

  • bzip

    I think the key will be Iowa at least based on what is being said and done:

    First on CNN: Key social conservatives secretly meet to stop Romney in Iowa
    http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/23/politics/secret-romney-meeting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

    There is a very concentrated effort to stop Romney among social conservatives. With the Iowa Faith and Freedom Coalition ruling out Cain and Paul the other day for an endorsement and leaving it to: Perry, Bachmann, Santorum, Gingrich as the 4 possibilities I think Perry looks strong for the endorsement and concentrated effort to stop Romney. They are looking for someone that not only meets there social conservative criteria but someone that: has a ground game in place, money to be competitive, etc. That would suggest Bachmann and Santorum are out and most likely Newt (though I have no idea how the social conservatives could get behind Newt with his personal, social baggage).

    ?The effort is said to still be in the discussion phase. Participants were said to have narrowed their focus down to four candidates: Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann, Texas Gov. Rick Perry, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum.?

    So in the end I think the key will be the concentrated effort by social conservatives to stop Romney. Whoever gets that endorsement (strong effort) will lead as the anti-Romney candidate, my guess and hopes is that it will be Rick Perry.

  • In The Hook

    And I would be fully onboard with running a candidate well to right of Romney if a formidable one existed. I just don’t see Gingrich as being to Romney’s right and Perry has, at-best, floundered on the national stage.

  • In The Hook

    We can complain until we’re blue in the face about the primary calendar, the ridiculous ten million debates, the horserace-obsessed media and a myriad of things, but the process is what it is. You play the cards you’re dealt in the game you chose, you don’t look at your hand and wished it was stronger and that you also hit the roulette table.

  • irishgirl

    analogy. Thanks. almost made me spew my coke zero out.

  • Whacker77

    Last night, Twitter was abuzz that Mike Huckabee is ready to endorse Mitt Romney.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    he uses the fact of conservatives not being chosen as the nominee as evidence that Rush is wrong about conservatism winning every time its tried.

    Wrong. Rush is saying that it wins every time the GOP nominates a conservative who run as one.. And that is true with only one exception, Goldwater, who had to run against a JFK’s legacy.

    Reagan twice, Bush41 the first time ran as a conservative, Bush43 was more conservative than McCain.

    The losers have been Ford, Bush41 after raising taxes, Dole and McCain.

  • lucasblack

    You are entitled to your view of where Newt is on the scale. I find him quite conservative – more so than Romney (and for me there is such a thing as going too far – both Santorum and Bachmann take positions that are too far to the right to make me comfortable.) I’m a budget hawk and Newt is the one I trust the most to balance the budget.

  • sunshinek67

    “November 16, 2007
    Giuliani Leads, Four More at or Above 10% in GOP Contest
    Giuliani lead nine points over Thompson
    by Jeffrey M. Jones
    PRINCETON, NJ — The latest Gallup Poll update on national Republicans? preferences for the party?s 2008 nomination shows former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani continuing to lead the field, although his support has dropped below 30% for the first time since June, and his nine-point lead is on the low end of what he has held since February. Four other GOP candidates now register double-digit support, including former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, who now has his highest level of support to date. In general, the Republican field appears more tightly bunched than at other times this year, suggesting the possibility of a highly competitive race for the party?s presidential nomination.

    The Nov. 11-14 Gallup Poll finds 28% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents nationwide naming Giuliani as their first choice for the party?s 2008 presidential nomination. Former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson is second, at 19%. Thompson appears, for the moment, to have halted some negative momentum, as his numbers had fallen slightly in each of the three prior polls. Thompson received a key endorsement from the National Right to Life Committee this week, although it is unclear whether that would have boosted his support.

    Arizona Sen. John McCain (13%), former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney (12%), and Huckabee (10%) are closely matched for third place. Texas Rep. Ron Paul places sixth with 5% support.

    This marks the first time Huckabee?s support has reached double digits in a Gallup Poll. He currently places second in several polls of Republicans in the state of Iowa, site of the first Republican caucus. The leader in those Iowa polls is Romney, who for the first time has seen his national support in double digits for three successive polls.

    Since February, Giuliani has led every Gallup Poll by a statistically significant margin. His largest lead during this time was 28 points in early March (before Thompson?s support was measured) and his smallest lead of 8 points occurred on three separate occasions in May, June, and September.

    Last week, noted televangelist Pat Robertson endorsed Giuliani for president. The poll sought to gauge the possible impact of that endorsement by asking Republicans whether Robertson?s endorsement would make them more likely to vote for Giuliani, less likely to do so, or would not affect their vote. Typically, poll respondents say endorsements do not sway their vote, and that is the case here — 76% say their vote will be unaffected. Nearly as many Republicans say Robertson?s endorsement makes them less likely to vote for Giuliani (9%) as say it makes them more likely (12%) to do so.

    Among the roughly 6 in 10 Republicans in the current poll who say they are extremely likely to vote in their state?s 2008 presidential primary or caucus, Giuliani (25%) and Thompson (21%) are essentially tied. McCain (13%), Romney (12%), and Huckabee (12%) tie for third among this group.

    In the prior poll, 31% of ?likely? Republican primary or caucus voters favored Giuliani, with Thompson and McCain both at 20%. Given the small sample sizes of likely primary voters from a single poll, these changes are not statistically significant.

    With the Iowa caucuses less than two months away, the campaign is beginning to heat up. As Republicans begin to focus more attention on the candidates, their preferences could begin to show change. Already it appears that Romney and Huckabee have improved their national standing in recent months. Giuliani has led for much of the year, and while his support is down in the current poll, it is unclear at this point whether that is the beginning of a trend toward a tighter race or a temporary variation in support.

    Survey Methods

    These results are based on telephone interviews with a randomly selected national sample of 398 Republicans and Republican-leaning independents, aged 18 and older, conducted Nov. 11-14, 2007. For results based on this sample, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum error attributable to sampling and other random effects is ?5 percentage points. In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.”

  • sunshinek67

    :)

  • irishgirl

    from your lips to God’s ears. Substance over style…..Also, thanks for the youtube clips earlier.

  • missourirancher

    For a Conservative than Governor Rick Perry???? I’m just an old Consevative Missourian Rancher. I picked Rick Perry based on his Experience and Record before he even announced his candidacy at the South Carolina Red State Convention. Come on “Brothers & Sisters” let’s get together and help get him elected. Can We Do It???? You Bet we can if we all work together. Let’s Get’r Done

  • jgge

    in this primaries season is really depressing. Elections are won in day to day campaigning, meeting with voters, get out the vote, and of course spending hundreds of millions of dollars in TV and radio ads. The debates in general elections occur very late in the campaign and by then the winner and loser would have be already known as the hard daily campaigning and political ads by each candidate would have cemented the image of this candidate and his opponent in the mind of voters.

    If the damn debates are so important to win elections, and it seems that many fools on political blogs and the media believe it is the most important thing, then the hell with campaigning and going from one county to another in the country to meet voters, the hell with raising hundreds of millions of dollars, the hell with TV and radio ads, the hell with get out the vote, let the candidates do few debates and then let us go on to vote.

    Wake up folks and stop the foolishness of this insane overrating of debates.

  • sunshinek67

    It’s a broken system, and too many of the GOP candidates on the debate stage are not radical enough to make a difference~

  • changeforrickperry

    Never overestimate the power of the All-Knowing All-Powerful Polls! This has been my point! Don’t live or die by ‘em! Anything–and I mean ANYTHING–can happen!

    (Oh, and by the way, Rick Perry is WAY more of a fighter than John McCain.)

  • jgge

    You people want to elect a President based on 30 seconds sound bytes and 3 second zingers. What the hell did you learn from debates when all what the candidate has is 30 second to answer a question.

    President do not govern by 30 second sound bytes and do not make decisions in 30 seconds.

    Wake up people, you are starting a very destructive thing in American politics by insanely overrating the debates as you have been doing all along this year. Hopefully when the real voting start voters are smart enough not to fall to this BS about the debates that is devouring like a plague the political blogs and the media and vote for the person who has the best record not the best debating skills.

  • changeforrickperry

    I’m sending my letter off sometime this evening. Be sure to explain Perry’s socially conservative record (pro-life, pro-traditional marriage, pro-homeschooling, strong family man)!

  • avagreen

    Reminders like this are amusing.
    It helps to keep posting things like to put things into pespective.

    Too funny for words. Heh.

  • jgge

    2007-2008 Republican primaries polls on this realclearpolitics link

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/2012_2008_gop_presidential_race_4_years_ago.html

    Of course Based on these polls Guiliani was # 1 until a day or two before the first vote was cast. McCain was polling at 13% average and he was in third or fourth place all the way until just few days before the first vote was cast.

  • romeg

    would disagree that the voters prefer “The devil the know to the one they don’t”.

    While John McCain was about as well known as anyone in the country, Barack Obama was known only for the quality of the rhetoric he plagiarized, not for any particular accomplishments, legislative or otherwise.

    While McCain’s chief advantage was Sarah Palin, his second advantage was that his name was not “Bush”.

    Obama will require at least a minor miracle and may require a major one to retain even his base. He won’t be garnering all those now retired New Dealers who thought he would get us out of Afghanistan and Iraq. And he won’t benefit from the surge of new young voters that though Bush was Satan incarnate.

  • Common_Cents

    Debates are free publicity. They show who can think on their feet. They show who can argue their position effectively and be persuasive. Tools they need as Prez to be effective in the White House in winning support of congress and American people for their agenda.

    Yeah, the lame stream media has tried to mess w/ the debates and that sucks. Don’t know why the RNC or campaigns agree to the earlier stupid formats either. But they are getting better and more informative.

  • bzip

    Thanks much for the reality check. Some have totally forgotten the fluid nature of any election, more so in this primary. There is no reason why Perry can’t come back strong and win the nomination.

  • avagreen

    Huck is no conservative. Despite what FOX would have us believe.

    http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/huckabee-is-not-a-conservative/question-1407353/

    * I find it interesting and encouraging that Huckabee who is considered the top conservative presidential candidate for 2012 has come out in support of the child nutrition bill that was lead by Michelle Obama and recently signed by president Obama.
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1210/46711.html

    * Huckabee raised taxes 21 times as governor of Arkansas including a 16 percent increase in gas taxes and a 103 percent hike in cigarette taxes. During his tenure in office Huckabee raised taxes by $505 million.

    * {WHO WUDDA THOUGHT,……?? Has he defended Perry on this issue? Now, he’s gonna support Romney??}
    HucKabee promoted a Dream Act like bill as Governor of Arkansas that would have allowed children of illegal immigrant to attend college with instate tuition for at least 3 years regardless of immigration status.

    * Supported Cap & Trade (although he denies it now) , etc. and so on.

    http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/fred_thompson_mike_huckabee_is_not_a_conservative/

    http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2008/01/02/audiorush-limbaugh-huckabee-not-a-conservative/

  • perry4prez

    This is exactly right. All you people who are obsessing over the fact that Perry said something stupid (the Heartless comment) during the second debate and forgot the Department of Energy earlier this month, you are going to bring us a wishy-washy, moderate.

    There is still time for the conservative movement to gather behind ONE candidate and stop Willard from winning the Iowa caucuses. There were some articles this morning saying that social conservatives in Iowa are meeting to try to settle on an alternative to Willard.

    Herman Cain is the real dunce, not Perry so their only real choices are between Michelle Bachman, Mr. Newt and Perry. Bachmann is very impressive but she launched the movement to torpedo Perry on Guardasil, so she is not the choice. Mr. Newt is also great but I fear he has too much baggage, plus his comments on child labor were stupid and are going to be a sound bite for Obama. Why does Mr. Newt get a pass for that senior moment but Perry gets pilloried for his?

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I am no longer a RiNO.

    I wised up. :)

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    But it’s always more fun to only tell half the story, right? ;-)

  • perry4prez

    It does not matter whether Mitt drives us off a cliff at 100 mph a la Obama or 40 mph. The point is that we are still being driven off a cliff and long term the guy who was at the helm will be blamed for it. That means that Republicans will get the blame if Mitt is elected (and the liberal media won’t bother to point out that Mitt is not a true conservative, they’ll lump the conservative movement in with Mitt), Dems will get the blame is Obama is re-elected. I say it is in the long-term interests of conservatism for Obama to get the blame.

    Our next candidate must be a Christian a Constitutionalist and a conservative. Notice that I do not say he “should be” these things but that he must be. I will stay home on Election Day rather than vote for Mitt Romney.

  • perry4prez

    The moderates are taking the conservative vote for granted. When we say we will vote for Romney in the general no matter what we are taking all our cards off the table even before the hand is played. Moderates will vote for Dems if they don’t get their way so they have leverage. We have no leverage if we pledge to support Mitt no matter what.

  • perry4prez

    nt

  • perry4prez

    There is no Perry or nothing approach. I will gladly vote for Mr. Newt, Michelle Bachmann, Rick Santorum in the general. I will even vote for Herman Cain (perhaps not gladly – he has shown himself to be a dunce) because he at least is in the right place ideologically. But not Mitt Romney.

    As for you people saying “conservative in the primary, Republican in the general”, suppose that somehow Ron Paul got the nomination. Would you really vote for him in November?

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    in your support for Perry. I’ll vote for any of the Republican candidates, but you won’t, so I don’t know why I should even listen to anything you have to say now on the matter.

  • perry4prez

    It is you who is not doing the cost-benefit analysis. What will happen long term once Mitt fails because he refuses to embrace conservative principles? People will blame Republicans (of all stripes) for the failure – the liberal media will lump in conservatives with Mitt and then we get Dems in office in 2016, 2020, maybe longer… tell me how that benefits us in the long-term.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    We don’t need fickle RiNOs clogging up the works.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Yeah, Ron Paul for sure. I mean he’s a disaster on foreign policy, but so is Obama, and his more extreme stuff would never get through Congress anyway.

    So yes. If Ron Paul is the Republican nominee, I will vote for Ron Paul.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Want a cookie? EVERYONE is taken for granted in politics. You’re just now realizing this? Why do you think it’s called the second-oldest profession? Candidates have to pander to you or you’ll stay home? Then stay home. We don’t want your kind anyway. We’re interested in electing the best possible candidate, and they’re all way better than Obama.

  • perry4prez

    Perry has created more jobs than anyone else, has a solid pro-life record, is pro-defense, pro-American Exceptionalism, defends Israel, fights the growth of spending and entitlements, etc. But don’t let that stop you. He forgot a proper noun once.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Good grief. Unemployment under Bush was 5%. That’s bad. Unemployment under Obama 9%. That’s good. Do I really need to go on? We win the battles we can and keep fighting to win the next one. If we wage battle based on what others think of us we’ve already lost.

  • perry4prez

    “EVERYONE is taken for granted in politics. You?re just now realizing this? Why do you think it?s called the second-oldest profession? Candidates have to pander to you or you?ll stay home? Then stay home” – this is completely wrong. Look at all the powerful Lobbying groups. Most pro-Israel groups are totally on the same page as Republicans but they do not identify as Republicans (some even identify as Democrats) so that no one in the GOP takes them for granted. The same is true for Senior Citizens and the Democrats. Most of them want more entitlements but they don’t say they are Democrats so that Republicans keep courting them.

    There is much to be said for not tipping your hand early.

    That is what is wrong with this “I’ll vote for anyone with an R after their name in November” meme. Of course the people saying that don’t really believe it. Even they would not vote for Ron Paul (thank God) if he somehow won the primaries.

  • perry4prez

    I agree of course that Obama is a disaster on foreign policy but at least he (on paper) says that he opposes Iran going nuclear. Ron Paul says he has no problem with Iranian nukes. And the president is very powerful when it comes to foreign policy, Congress can’t easily weigh in there.

  • tomatin

    Anyone who supports Romney is not a true conservative.

    Give me a Gingrich/Perry or a Perry/Gingrich ticket.

    Yes Perry had more conservative credentials but Gingrich debate better and can spread the conservative message better.

  • federalfarmer1

    Paul is pro life, but he will let foreign countries harbor terrorists and plan operations against us without interference. At the debate, he said the taliban only wants to be left alone. His foreign policy views are despicable. Pauls admission that he would do nothing to prevent an Al quaeda armed with an Iranian nuke is a reason to vote for Obama. I would still probably vote Paul, because im not convinced Obama will do anything either, but he is certainly to the right of Paul on foreign policy.

  • tomatin

    Romney is a complete panderer. He does whatever the polls tell him.

  • tomatin

    Watch Romney during the presiential election will drift so far towards Obama to get independent voters that there will be no difference.

    Romney invented ObamaCare.

    On the most important issue for many conservatives may most. Savig the sanctity of life Romney sat down is NARAL and said he would do nothing to stop Roe v. Wade. Life is not an issue a true conservative is wishy washy about.

    I don’t even trust Romney to pick Pro Life judges.

  • tomatin

    Romney is being shoved down our throats just like McCain was.

  • federalfarmer1

    You are just speculating on the popularity of a political party. I’m showing you concrete harm to individual lives. Staying home means electing Obama and giving up on abortion.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Because here it’s “Conservative in the primary, Republican in the General”. It’s a good policy too, because everyone could find a reason not to vote for someone. I could just as easily say, “I’ll never vote for Rick Perry if he’s the nominee.” If we all do that, we might as well pack it in now.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Keep trying.

  • wacowboy

    if obama wins, america is dead. RIP usa.

    mittens might slow the process enough for the next guy to have a shot at fixing it.

    key word — might.

  • wacowboy

    in 2004 the dems thought they could trot out anyone and beat Bush.

    I think Mittens is the same mistake for our side

  • federalfarmer1

    Try harder at thinking.

  • ceili_dancer

    Support the nominee 100% no matter who it is. Can you do no less? Now, get out there and make sure it’s Perry.
    I remember a motivational poster in my high school gym. “If you are in second, make sure the person in first is breaking a record.”

  • ceili_dancer

    Is considered full employment in an economic sense. So, 5% is not too bad, not full employment, but not bad. The MSM when it was at 5% had all of the hard luck human interest stories going to tell you how bad it is, but with our current occupant, not a peep. This is the sort of propaganda that we have to move upstream against.

  • supergirl2911

    and I think Perry is a stronger candidate (record) and campaigner than Fred Thompson.

  • oneconservative

    Medved is the classic “establishment Republican”. He carried the water for McCain in 2008 and we all saw how that turned out. I do agree with Medved about 70% of the time; about as often as I agree with McCain.

    I will support Mitt if he wins but we can obviously do better.

    These debates are dumb. They are nothing more than sound bytes. Mitt has now done about 12 of these or so which makes him pretty good at them.

  • supergirl2911

    I think it is a reasonable conversation to have right now. I think it is not out of line to say, “maybe I will stay home” or not post here.
    The fact that they support Perry to the exclusion of others is part of it. Some people obviously supported (Thompson, etc.) to the exclusion of all others and sat home last year.
    It may be lame to say it next October.
    I would say now it the time to debate whether there will be a group that stays home if (fill in the blank) were the nominee. This is our primary, and I want to support a candidate that I like and that I think has a great record. I don’t want to talk about in November how I will maybe support so and so when I do not vote until March.

  • supergirl2911

    so we will support the nominee

  • Wiseman

    Romney is best situated to defeat Obama which is the ultimate goal. I consider myself to be conservative. I consider Erik Erickson to be an extremist. If you don’t march lock and step like a robot to right wing radio, then Red State will throw you under the bus. Ronald Reagan would be labeled a RINO under the Red State standards. Reagan raised taxes multiple times, created huge deficits, was at one point pro-choice, and as everyone knows gave amnesty to illegals! Take a look at the extemist that the Tea Party nominated in Conn, Del and Nevada Senate races. These were all winable if we didn’t nominate an extremist. Romney is conservative but not an extremist. Even Rush stated that Romney was the conservative choice in 2008, even with Romneycare! Why is Obama going after Romney already. He know Romney is the only one who can beat him. While I like Newt, he is so disliked nationwide, he has no chance in general election. Perry is not up to it intellectually and everyone knows it. Cain is not qualified. Romney is electable and especially with female voters. They love his family.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    far be it from me to stop you, but that’s not really what we’re trying to do here.

  • supergirl2911

    However, I think this is a reasonable place to discuss how electable a candidate is and how they will govern. I have admitted that I went to the primary last time and voted for Romney, then volunteered for McCain. I understand the point and I have the experience to prove it. But last time was not successful and I do think running Romney or Gingrich would be a lot like 2008 for republicans.

  • Remington_Steele

    to educate them NT. You are more patient than I am.

  • ashland_avenue

    nt

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    so that we won’t have 911s. I wonder if Sharia will be involved? Can we trade with the Saudis? Jordan? Can our Navy sail in the Indian Ocean? Wouldn’t want to piss off an un-elected Islamist in a cave as they are the moral authority Ron Paul answers to. I’m thinking Ron Paul would gladly negotiate with hostage takers happily.

  • ashland_avenue

    4) Take over Senate
    5) Get 60 Senate seats

  • bonnman

    EXACTLY. I think if Romney is the nominee it will be an Obama landslide. Romney is Obama-lite and once he is the nominee he’ll move to the left and there will be little difference between the two. And then there is little reason to vote out the current President.

  • bonnman

    If Romney is the nominee, I’ll vote for him. I won’t be motivated to campaign for him or donate money or recommend him to friends. Basically I won’t be motivated to fight for him and that will be the difference between 2010 and 2012 with Romney leading the way.

  • ajdx3

    You are so right, nominating an “extremist” candidate does nothing but give the election to Obama and the Democrats. It is shocking (and sad) to hear these so-called Republicans publicly disrespecting the person they assume will eventually be the nominee. I will proudly vote for Mitt Romney or whoever the nominee is. I certainly won’t act like many on this so-called “conservative” site and take my ball and go home.

  • theredrider

    He said a whole lot of stupid. He also doesn’t strike me as a true conservative. He and Newt seem to have the same idea about illegal aliens: let em in. And if you oppose either one of them, you’re “heartless”.

    Perry had the best opportunity of any candidate this year to get his campaign off the ground and get Republicans energized.

    He blew it. He will stay in the race just long enough to draw support away from Gingrich and help Romney win in Iowa and New Hampshire.

    That is an acceptable outcome to me. But all of this Perry rah-rah stuff seems a bit trite at this point.

    Perry picked a poor strategy for connecting with voters, compounded that mistake by repeatedly refusing to prepare for debates, and now he’s stuck in the basement with Santorum and Gary Johnson.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    “I won’t vote for Candidate X” in the general to a discussion about who’s best. The former isn’t acceptable here, the latter is. Heck, I haven’t even settled on a candidate yet (I was on the blandwagon), but I know I’ll vote for whoever gets there eventually.

  • theredrider

    Limbaugh is consistently wrong. I’ve stopped listening to him. I read two of his books years ago (“The Way Things Ought to Be” and “See? I told you so.”). He used to be a guiding light for conservatives who sensed that the mainstream media wasn’t giving us the full story.

    Now that conservatives can get both sides of the story from the internet, Rush’s reason for being has shrunk. He has now become part of the shrill anti-Romney crowd. It has nothing to do with getting a conservative into the White House and everything to do with Rush trying to justify his own existence in a country that proved in 2008 that it doesn’t listen to Rush. Pretty soon, Rush’s new wife will be the only one who even pretends to listen to his show.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Sorry, I couldn’t resist.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    I still can’t figure out why so many people are so anxious for us to become Greece. I’m pretty sure we’ll eventually get there no matter what, but I don’t get what the hurry is.

  • theredrider

    Candidates who are perceived as moderates, such as both Bushes and Eisenhower, don’t win elections.

    Whatever. Listen, Americans will fire BHO next year. But only if they have someone who is not a far-right nutjob on the ballot to replace BHO with. Romney is widely perceived as being a center-right conservative who is well-grounded in facts and knows about the responsibility of governing.

    Those who, like Medved, who realize that Romney is the only conservative who can beat Obama have decided to be a part of history.

    I’m waiting for Jim DeMint and Michele Bachmann to sign on to Team Romney. I know that day is coming soon.

    Eventually Erick, Neil, and everyone else here will change their tune and support Romney. Anything else is aiding and comforting the enemy, Barack Hussein Obama.

  • boonerdan

    WOW! Only took 2 posts for the Perry-bots to come out and try to resell their “epic failure”. Perry had his chance and he blew it, and it had nothing to do with his “heartless” comment. Perry talked tough against DC on the TSA sexual assaults until they threatened TX airports. He could have at least put up a pretend fight for a day or two.

    Move on . . . Perry is toast. Too bad as he had potential. I will vote for any of the GOP candidates in the general, other than Romney. I will NEVER pull the lever for Romney!

  • theredrider

    I voted for him in 1992. My first election. I wasn’t terribly enthusiastic about Bob Dole, but I voted for him in 1996. I voted for and campaigned for Bush, Jr. in 2000 and 2004. I contributed money to him both times.

    I voted for McCain in 2008, although I sent money to Romney and I was somewhat disappointed to learn that McCain would be the GOP nominee.

    I’m sick of the line that “Romney is not a conservative”. Like NightTwister, I’ve seen that used as a slur and I haven’t seen any facts to back it up that don’t apply equally to Gingrich, Cain, Perry, or whoever the “flavor-of-the-day” candidate is.

    Romney has the support of conservatives from coast to coast and I’m proud to support him.

  • theredrider

    I see a lot more “I hate Romney” on RS than “I’m done with Obama”.

    You’ve been consistently fighting the same one-issue or one-candidate voters that Rush Limbaugh complained about in 1998. I’m old enough to remember that rant.

    My question to Erick and the other front-pagers here is: once you’ve cut Romney off at the knees, are you prepared to take any of the blame for re-electing Obama? If the media is saying that conservatives hate Romney, let’s prove them wrong by re-iterating the phrase: “conservative in the primary, Republican in the general”.

    That’s where I’ve been ever since I flirted with the possibility of a Perot vote in 1992. Still voted Republican.

  • theredrider

    Perry may have longer credentials than Thompson, but he’s not a better campaigner.

    I’ve never seen a worse campaigner than Rick Perry. He doesn’t know how to connect with conservatives or centrists.

    It is true that the media has been ruthless to him. It’s Saturday Night Live, for chrissakes, what did you expect?

    But Perry, after being put on notice that they were out to get him, fed them all the ammo they needed to finish off his campaign. Vote for whomever you want in the primary. But come back and vote Republican in the general.

  • nathanalbright

    ….if you don’t want to.

  • theredrider

    We need people here who will walk a mile in the snow for ANY Republican next November.

    I watched with glee as Democrats nearly cannibalized themselves in 2008 in the Obama-Clinton wars. Then I watched in horror this year as we’ve seen the absolute worst behavior from Republicans attacking each other over “who’s candidate is more conservative”.

    As long as Obama is on the train back to Chicago in 2013, I’m not going to snivel about which Republican does the job.

  • nathanalbright

    …what is the problem here? If we as a nation think a straight talking and genuinely Conservative Texan governor is an extremist we are in a world of trouble, and it’s hard to see how things will improve.

  • theredrider

    Your name suggests that you are familiar with Irish step-dance. Are you or have you been a practitioner?

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    We know he ain’t Romney.

    Somehow Obama survived all the vicious attacks against him by Hillary. Once the primary is over most people will have forgotten. It’s not like we’re giving Obama any ammunition to use against Romney. It’s already been out there for years, there’s nothing new.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    But this is utter b.s. (sorry Bill). There has been and likely never will be a worse campaigner than Fred Thompson. As much as I loved what he had to say, he never showed he wanted it (and quite frankly probably didn’t).

    They aren’t going to write any campaign how to books about Perry, but I can pretty much guarantee that Fred will end up in the what not to do section.

  • changeforrickperry

    “Men’s courses will foreshadow certain ends, to which, if persevered in, they must lead,” said Scrooge. “But if the courses be departed from, the ends will change. Say it is thus with what you show me!”–A Christmas Carol, Charles Dickens

  • theredrider

    is misguided.

    I’m sure that there are people here who worry that he’ll put Harriet Myers-type justices on the Supreme Court.

    Well, look what happened to Bush when he tried to do it. He got his hand-slapped and then guided Samuel Alito to a successful confirmation.

    Many people here claim that they don’t know where Mitt stands on the issues. I know exactly where Mitt stands.

    Taxes: Against
    Abortion: Against
    Same-Sex Marriage: Against
    Illegal Immigration: Against
    Nuclear Iran: Against
    Obamacare: Against
    The exportation of American jobs: Against
    Religious freedom: For
    Re-building America by removing governmental impediments to commercial growth: For

    That is as conservative as I need a candidate to be. I trust him.

    I don’t trust Newt. And I did thank you for your commitment to conservatism. I’m thanking you again.

  • theredrider

    You have convinced me. Thompson is worse than Perry.

    When I scour the bottom of the ocean for hours at a time, my eyes get foggy and all the bottom feeders start to look alike.

    Sorry. I’m wrong. You’re right.

  • theredrider

    nt

  • nathanalbright

    …the problem is trust. I don’t trust Mittens. Most of this site doesn’t trust Mittens. It’s hard to get people enthusiastic about supporting you if they feel they have to pull a nanny act on you all the time to keep you in line, and can’t trust you to be genuinely principled about getting America off of the road to perdition. And that is Mitt’s main problem, at least to me.

  • theredrider

    I’d vote for Ron Paul in November if he were able to prove himself capable of winning the GOP nomination.

    He won’t.

    But now that I’ve said that, let’s hear your rationale for this bull-headed refusal to support Romney when your only other choice in November will be the guy that is currently anchoring America to the bottom of a never-ending recession.

    I’m not convinced that you’re the die-hard Republican that is supposed to be here. Romney has been a Republican ever since he was old enough to vote, which is more than I can say for Rick Perry.

  • theredrider

    What’s your point?

    Romney will have the support of every intelligent Republican, every intelligent independent, and as many intelligent Democrats as there are.

    That will be enough to send BHO back to Chicago.

  • theredrider

    Obama invented Obamacare. Sure, Obama claims to have gotten some ideas from Romney, but Romney used ideas which were supported at the time by Newt Gingrich and the Heritage Foundation (that’s a conservative foundation for you n00bs).

    Romney is pro-life and will appoint pro-life judges.

    You sound like the kos kids. Obama wants Republicans to vote for anyone but Romney. Smart cat, that. Obama knows that Romney can beat him and that no other Republican can.

    That’s all I need to know. I trust Romney.

  • theredrider

    Despite voting for the self-styled “centrist” Obama in 2008, I see the U.S. as having moved to the right on fiscal and social issues over the last 20 years.

    It is true that we now have gay marriage in a few states but other states now have constitutional amendments banning gay marriage. And the federal government now has a law banning federal recognition of gay marriage which didn’t exist before 1996.

    So the country is gradually moving to the right with a hiccup here and there. So, as Romney was supported as a conservative candidate in 2008, now, with the country and the party having drifted to the right, he is now perceived as being “moderate”.

    Perhaps it is we who have changed and not Romney. Just sayin’.

  • ceili_dancer

    Started as an adult and kept going . It really is like a second family at feises and ceilis.

    Threadjack over.

  • jgge

    do not debate Congress in 30 seconds sound bytes, do not discuss policies in 30 second sound bytes, do not enact policies in 30 second sound bytes and do not make decision in 30 second sound bytes. And what this quick on his feet has anything to do with qualification for a President or how President acts on a daily basis. You people keep parroting the same stupid stuff about debates and their importance.

  • wacowboy

    people who don’t stand for what they believe in — because they believe in getting elected more than any core principle.

    Bush 43 for all his big government tendencies wasn’t afraid to follow his conscience. People knew what they were getting with him — which is why he was re-elected over plastic man john kerry. in fact, a theme in his re-election campaign was “You may not agree with me, but you know where I stand.”
    bush 41 was elected president on Reagan’s coat tails. he squished and got fired.
    While I don’t know much about Eisenhower the president, one doesn’t get to be Supreme Allied Commander by being squishy. I’m guessing with a good deal of confidence he was consistent in his core philsophy and beliefs.

    Can you tell me what Mitt stands for and support it with actions that he’s taken to show it? All I see is inconsistencies.

  • wacowboy

    but look at his record. how can we be sure?

  • acat

    not as a Moderate, as you assert. McLame was a moderate. Dole was a moderate. So, for that matter, was John Anderson.

    Whoever the GOP nominate, we’re going to be told they’re a right wing nut job. Period. To borrow from Art Chance, this cat’s been called a right wing nut job often enough I no longer give a damn.

    Romney is no conservative at all, this is just Medved showing his East Coaster cred.

    (I do, though, agree that Bachmann is running out of money and will likely – like the other Minnesotan whose campaign she spiked – look to Mitt to pay her campaign debt…)

    Mew

  • wacowboy

    “doesn’t strike me as a true conservative”
    – Neither does Mitt (two can play this game)
    “let illegals in”
    - why not give them free healthcare like mitt did
    “he blew it”
    – really? entering the race 3 months after everyone else did and trying to jump into the mix. one bad debate, one brain freeze and we’re willing to toss out 10 years of conservative governance. and I’ll tell you there hasn’t been one governor who has stood up to Obama more than Rick Perry.

  • bs61

    in the protests of Obama, I turned him off completely.

  • bs61

    Look how badly Cain stumbled and got the MSM after him, yet the polls didn’t go down at first. We can dismiss the elite MSM and that includes Fox!

  • bs61

    His thinking that bringing up Obama’s radical past was a bad way to go, reminds me of McCain – he knew of it and said nothing!

  • bs61

    For me it is time to clean house of our govt, and I will not be voting for anyone who ran before!

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/marktwain141773.html#ixzz1ecMk6XHV

    Mark Twain

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    You are so wrong; as per Nathan, “None of these candidates (except Paul) are extremists about anything.”

    You toss-around personal-conclusions that cry for refutation [from RR to RP]; I will only claim that your self-appointed arbiter-of-truth status doesn’t permit you to conclude: “Perry is not up to it intellectually and everyone knows it.”

    Electability can be debated, but to claim women will support Romney because “they love his family” places your credibility [absent a reference or two] in the trash-heap of history [alongside where Perry wants China to reside].

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …I confronted him with his pro-Amnesty policy.

    He said that this is mandatory if the GOP hopes to elect a POTUS.

    This was unaccompanied by any modicum of rationalization on the Illegals-issue.

    I also stopped listening, years ago, when he denied Illegals had broken any law.

    Just sayin’….

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    requires wide dissemination

  • Wiseman

    None of the republicans have brought this up but rest assured Obama would pound Perry as an extremist who wants Texas to sucede from the USA. Perry is a good man but not ready for national stage.

  • avagreen

    If Obama takes this issue up (which I hardly doubt he would), he’d just look like a fool.

    As Perry never said that.
    Just another myth.
    That’s why none of the republicans have “brought this up”.

    Additionally, the U.S. Supreme Court case Texas v White (1869) established the principle that there is an existing prohibition against any state seceding from the Union without the consent of the other States.

    ~next

  • bobguzzardi

    As the rappers say “Can you feel me?” Rick Perry feels what we feel; thinks what we think and is not better than we are.

    Victor Davis Hanson wrote a compelling piece that Mitt Romney is Republican castor oil. He may be right but I am not convinced that Romney can win.

  • bobguzzardi

    Huckabee is a compassionate Big Government Santorum conservative.

    His endorsement would be helpful though.

  • bobguzzardi

    The country had a brain freeze in November 2008 and haven’t we all screwed up. So Rick is like us. I like that. I trust that.

  • Scope

    is Ron Paul. OTOH, if Romney runs anymore to the left in a general, he will be to the left of Obama. On many issues he is already dead even with Obama currently, and Obama is no where near right of center. Then again, some choose to move the goal posts in order to support their guy.

  • joayn

    home on election day because Romney is the nominee does a major disservice to Governor Perry. I am a Perry supporter. I will vote for Governor Perry in the primary. If he doesn’t win it, I will gladly, happily, and enthusiastically cast my vote for the Republican nominee whoever that may be.

    Look, if there’s one thing that I’m absolutely convinced of, it’s Perry’s dedication, love, and respect for the military. Who, I might add, have to do their jobs no matter who their CAC is and don’t have the luxury of sitting at home if they don’t like it.

    I guess I’m just old-fashioned and hold fast to the belief that one citizen giving his or her life for our freedoms means something and should be honored by fellow citizens. Paid for with blood and injury, those freedoms include the obligation and duty to vote.

    Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! Please give thanks for and bless our military and their families.

  • acat

    Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.

    Mew

  • joayn

    No one
    perry4prez Wednesday, November 23rd at 5:05PM EST (link)
    There is no Perry or nothing approach. I will gladly vote for Mr. Newt, Michelle Bachmann, Rick Santorum in the general. I will even vote for Herman Cain (perhaps not gladly ? he has shown himself to be a dunce) because he at least
    is in the right place ideologically. But not Mitt Romney.

    As for you people saying ?conservative in the primary, Republican in the general?, suppose that somehow Ron Paul got the nomination. Would you really vote for him in November?

  • acat

    I would suggest asking what State perry4prez resides in before condemning this protest vote.

    If it’s a leans-Dem or solid-Dem State (and the Illinois Dems are certainly going to try to steal another election for Obama) then a vote for Romney is pretty much meaningless anyway.

    If, on the other hand, perry4prez resides in a non-proportional and solidly GOP State (such as Texas) then there’s no problem with winning by a lower than expected percentage.

    There is a problem with such protests in a leans-GOP State, but only because his inability to break above 25% of likely GOP primary voters indicates there is no real grass-roots support for Romney, and he would likely lag far behind in the general election.

    Mew

  • acat

    and anything it says should be taken with salt.

    Mew

  • scottishjew

    The ultimate goal is replacing Obama with a true conservative. We did we get with Bush. Two wars, blockbuster budgets, more entitlement drug spending, more federal intervention in primary education and Obama. It is a complete waste of time to knock Obama in and put in a RINO who wont push a conservative agenda. You liberal Republicans can hold YOUR nose for a change. If Romney is the nominee, I sit this one out. Obama or no Obama.

  • Return to Revolution

    Thing that burns me up is how he says Mittens is the one b/c people want a “boring” candidate. Ummm, I’m pretty sure McCain, gore, Kerry, and dole were the more boring (among other things) candidates over the past elections.

  • bobguzzardi

    Rush Limbaugh is terrific source of information and insight delivered in an engaging and self-deprecating manner. Rush is quintessential American Constitutional Limited Government Conservative.

  • damianlewis719

    You summed it up perfectly.

  • theprodigy

    I think Paul realizes the greatest threat to our national security right now is our massive debt. Non-interventionism is not such a radical idea; it was Jefferson himself, after all, who said “Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none.” We have had a history intervening in the middle east ever since the 1953 overthrow of the Iranian prime minster Mohammad Mosaddegh. It just seems we’ve made a lot of enemies and we’ve paid an unfathomable price in lives lost and money spent. But at the core of all our problems, foreign and domestic, is the lack of respect given to economics. Monetary policy is the basis of any civilization. Everything else is a symptom. Sadly, 99% of people have little to no clue what econ is all about, or what the differences between Keynesian and Austrian economics are. This subject is largely ignored in the media and I haven’t once heard the question posed to any of the candidates in the debates what school of economic thought they subscribe to, and I’ve seen every debate. I would urge everyone to look into this subject and have a thorough understanding of it. Failure to do this, I believe, will ultimately be America’s demise.

  • theprodigy

    Looking at the unemployment number doesn’t accurately portray a country’s financial state. People need to understand how economics actually work; how Keynesianism effects the economy, and how the Austrian method would effect the economy. During Clinton, the federal deficit actually stopped growing, unemployment was very low, and the stock market reached new highs while inflation was generally held in check. But the Federal Reserve pumped trillions into the economy during the 90s. How is this possible? The money went into the stock market and caused the market to rise artificially. This artificial rise is called a bubble. It popped in early 2000. Instead of letting the market clear itself of the malinvestment built up during the period of artificial growth, our elected officials are concerned with being reelected. So they have the Fed start inflating again and another bubble is formed. The housing bubble formed under Bush, and because of all the new houses going up and ppl buying them, the economy had a low employment rate, but again, this is artificial. The problem with creating a bubble is eventually it has to pop and everyone will be worse for the wear the longer the bubble is inflated. Recessions happen becuz of inflation, sorry if I sound like a school teacher, but actually you won’t hear economics being taught like this, not by some halfwit Keynesian stooge, anyway.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    There is a natural business cycle that can cause a boom and bust. But under monetary pump priming and lax lending rules a boom becomes a bubble and the resulting crash becomes a full blown recession.

    The extra money itself however would not be the problem (except for causing inflation) The real culprit in every financial crises is that the easy money leads to excessive debt.

    Debt is what is behind every single fiscal crises, And all debt is potentially harmful, corporate debt, private debt and governmental debt.

    We have to start convincing people that they have been lied to for decades. The elites have told us that debt does not matter, but it does matter, It matters a great deal. And soon we will be drowning in it.

  • theprodigy

    Inflation is an ethical problem at its core. Politicians schmooze their way into office by promising people things they can’t afford then financing it through printing money out of thin air. That’s the problem with the monetary system today. There will always be a need to spend more money because the demands of the people are endless. People need to wake up and realize gov is not the answer to everything and in fact, is hardly the answer to anything. IMO, inflation should be phased out and the Fed abolished if the economy is to recover on a long-term basis. This view is reflective of the Austrian theory of economics. There’s much more to it than that, like ending corporate welfare and a lot of other things to provide an actual free market, but sound money is at the core. Look into these issues for yourselves, you will not regret it.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    You might like to spend a little time on this web site. http://cafehayek.com/

    It is run by the two George Mason University professors Don Boudreaux and Russ Roberts. We have great discussions with lots of free marketeers, along with a few lefty trolls.

    As for the Fed, it is probably not politically feasible to abolish it, And it is not at all clear that without a central bank the Treasury would do any better of a job. But certainly some of it’s power ought to be reigned in.

    Funny thing is that all of my professors were Chicago school disciples. I learned a lot of monetarism, but I am not sure now if I believe in the magic powers of money supply manipulation.

    The biggest advantage of the Chicago school over the Austrian school is it’s more rigorous emphasis on hard research rather than pure theory.

  • Carol Tarasewicz

    I am sure you remember that Noonan, former conservative, fell in love with Obama. Let’s keep that in mind. I read the WSJ half the time, I have online subscription.

  • theprodigy

    I’m only slightly familiar with the Chicago school. I know Milton Friedman was their biggest star and I believe they put a huge emphasis on the amount of money in circulation and velocity, as you are saying. I firstly want to see the Fed audited to find out what the hell they’ve been up to. Further action can be taken if need be, but just look at what Jefferson had to say about having a private bank issue our currency. I find it very troubling that the media largely ignores this issue, and in fact, on the family voter forum in Iowa, a man asked that one of the issues that needed to be addressed was the topic of the Federal Reserve. Frank Luntz smiled at him and of course, the topic was never addressed. The left-right paradigm the media tries to drill into the public’s head is perhaps the most disingenuous tactic I’ve ever seen used, and it is the reason I have lost all faith the ‘freedom of the press’. People are talking about social and foreign policy as if the debt doesn’t exist. They are putting the cart before the horse. No one is serious about taking a chainsaw to our debt, save for one, This country will sink into the bottom of the ocean if we don’t get a grasp on the spending now.

  • benson1

    The word conscience means knowing right from wrong. Anyone voting for Obama against any Republican candidate running against him has no conscience. I do not want Romney. I do not want Obama more. I will vote for anyone running against Obama to assure he doesn’t get a second term. If it’s Romney we’ll have our work cut out for us to keep him in line. A conservative Republican Senate could get that job done. If you haven’t already visit Demint’s “Senate Conservative Fund” website. He picks the most conservative candidates running and no matter what state their from you can support them financially. I supported Rubio even before he was considered the golden boy. Demints record is admirable, 5 conservatives he supported are now in the Senate. I do not want Romney and I’m not resigned to having him as the nominee but if worse comes to worse I will vote for him and not stay home, I want Obama out of the White House. I actually care more about my country, even the nit wits in it, than I care about my own personal preferences. So it’s fight for who I want as a nominee now and support who ever wins the nomination and runs against Obama.
    It ain’t rocket science it’s common sense something most conservatives have plenty of.

  • benson1

    we are lost as a nation. For the good of the country and everyone in it we must rid ourselves of Obama. 4 more years will complete the disaster he’s started domestically and foreign policy wise. The Congress cannot stop all of his misguided dangerous ideological dictatorial policies. Do you really want to see his smug face spewing out lies daily while he apologizes to our enemies…for four more years.
    Think about it!!!!!!

  • benson1

    right!!!

  • benson1

    anymore. He’s being deserted by blacks and many Democrats don’t even want him to run again. It looks like even the stupid Independents are turning away, not for the right reasons of course but who cares as long as they don’t buy the Hope and Change anymore. He’s gone from Messiah back to community organizer down to boob. Even if the majority don’t understand what he’s really accomplished and only think him incompetent that’s fine. I don’t really care if they actually know what’s going on as long as they decide to stay home or if they do participate they vote him out. It’s to much to hope for that all will become informed and actually see the evil that has permeated our government at the highest level.

  • benson1

    He’s a disaster that’s for sure.

  • jkines

    as vapid as she is insipid I am not disputing. The distressing thing is not that she is read but taken seriously.

  • Common_Cents

    most people make their decisions from debates, hearsay from friends/family on debates, 30 sec sound bytes in media, media headlines. I wish most everyone scrutinzed accomplishments, records, side by side.

    Candidates get boiled down to a simple thumbs up or down for a simple reason and that’s about it. hopenchange, etc…

  • anneincalifornia

    Seems one of Huffington Posts poster children “kimbanyc” has been shown to be a fraud with multiple accounts, plagiarizing dozens of sources.
    He is also “Avidtennisfan” as one of our HP conservative posters has proven.
    Check out the proof:

    KIMBANYC:?SKQWAAAAAKP[OLLY WANNA CWACKER??????
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/kimbanyc/super-committee-stall-gop-spitball-offer-tax-hikes_n_1102159_119133227.html

    AVIDTENNISFAN: *?TIRED RHETORIC POLLYWANNN?ACRACKER?????? SQUAAAAAK”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/avidtennisfan/millennial-voters-generation-y-support-obama_n_1074543_116633717.html
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/avidtennisfan/millennial-voters-generation-y-support-obama_n_1074543_116637454.html

    KIMBANYC: “WHY DO YOU BAGGERS ALWAYS TRY TO SOUND LIKE CHEAP COMIC BOOK VILLIANS”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/kimbanyc/supercommittee-fail_n_1103722_119298711.html

    AVIDTENNISFAN: ?Why do you baggers always try to sound like 3rd rate comic book villians? Commented Jul 28, 2011 at 15:16:23 in Politics
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/avidtennisfan/debt-ceiling-deadline-_n_911605_99688689.html

    KIMBANYC: “IS WATER WET BAGGUETTE?”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/kimbanyc/newt-gingrich-occupy-wall-street-job-bath_n_1103172_119222240.html

    AVIDTENNISFAN:”ANOTHER EPIC FAIL BAGUETTE”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/avidtennisfan/boehner-obama-bluff-short-term-debt-ceiling-deal_n_907850_98927694.html

    KIMBA: ?WELL DANGARANGA?DINGO I MUSTBE DOOOOOOOOS?SSSSSHHHHB?BBBAAAAAAG?GG?
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/kimbanyc/super-committee-stall-gop-spitball-offer-tax-hikes_n_1102159_119156481.html

    AVIDTENNISFAN:?dddooooooo?ssshhhhhbb?baaaaagggg?ggsssaaaaa?aaayyyssss?what???????????http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/avidtennisfan/boehner-wall-street-debt-ceiling_n_910128_99330398.html

    kIMBANYC: EEEEEK A MOUSE
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/kimbanyc/newt-gingrich-congressional-budget-office_n_1106869_119620169.html

    AVIDTENNISFAN: EEEEEK A MOUSE
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/avidtennisfan/rick-perry-gop-debate-electability_n_952023_106842526.html

    KIMBANYC: ?WE SEE THE REAL LIFE TRAGEDY OF CLUSTERFOX HERE EVERYDAY.”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/kimbanyc/fox-news-viewers-less-informed-people-fairleigh-dickinson_n_1106305_119634339.html

    AVIDTENNISFAN:”stormfront or clusterfox for you?
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/avidtennisfan/barack-obama-approval-ratings-reelection_n_868952_90502568.html

    This guy has 30,000 comments on Huffington Post all lying about conservative values and rick Perry, and he turns out to be the biggest liar of them all.
    Fellow RS posters who also venture to HuffPo can report his abusive profile here.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/kimbanyc

    and his against-the-rules alter-ego here:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/avidtennisfan?action=comments

  • bs61

    that would be the Ron Paul supporters! I’m talking primary.