they have no principles, except getting re-elected!!!

So, we must primary the weasels and elect people who actually hold conservative principles, and try to live and govern by them.

We the People are still in charge of making it work!

this from the man who has stated he will vote for anyone who gets the nomination…

right.

How would you handle the other facets of this legislation?

It seems to me that Congress is putting on a play by both parties that is an endless series of reruns. I don’t think that there is any real plan or appetite to get the job done. You can play repubs. versus dems. all you want but this is all too familiar.

Erick,

You write:
It has been a defining principle of the GOP that drives the left crazy that tax cuts need not be paid for. Tax cuts generate economic grown which then cause the tax cuts to pay for themselves.

It’s not completely clear that you are stating that “tax cuts pay for themselves” premise as your belief (as opposed to a myth perpetuated by some for rhetorical purposes), but if you are saying it’s your belief, well, with all due respect, I’m astonished that a generally intelligent, informed guy like you would believe that myth, considering that the supposed basis that is put forth for that conclusion is nonsensical and that all the most prominent conservative economists whom I’ve seen comment on the matter say that, generally speaking, tax cuts cause revenues to be substantially lower than they would be otherwise.

Obviously at extreme rates much, much higher than current tax rates, we could be on the wrong side of the Laffer curve such that a tax cut could have a net neutral or positive effect on revenues, but not at anywhere near current tax rates. So say economists across the political spectrum.

Please see
this list of prominent conservative economists
and
a selection of quotes from them making my point.

Yes, lost revenue from tax cuts isn’t as great as static analysis would calculate because they generally* cause incremental GDP and reduced tax avoidance and evasion, all of which generate revenue feedback effects, but not nearly enough to offset the reduction in rates.

To be clear, I’m NOT saying revenues are likely to be lower in the few/several years following a tax cut vs. the year before the tax cut. Tax revenues generally grow, even in real terms, over a given set of a few/several years regardless of whether tax rates are raised, lowered, or kept the same, simply because simply because the economy is more often growing rather than in recession, even in real (inflation-adjusted) terms, let alone nominal terms (which are often used by non-economists who claim a positive effect on revenues, thus compounding their fundamental analytical error with yet another).

I’m NOT making an argument against tax cuts or in favor of tax increases. I’m simply saying let’s not base our arguments and our advocacy on ridiculous, invalid premises. Lower taxes are good for economic growth, efficient allocation of resources, and fairness (letting the earners of income keep more of it).

* The exception would be a case in which deficit-financed tax cuts put enough upward pressure on private interest rates to cause enough “crowding out” of the private sector to fully offset (or more) the positive effects of the lower tax rates.

If you want to pass a clean bill with no other provisions, then you would be dropping the Keystone XL provision too.

That’s unfortunate; because forcing Obama to choose between either signing it or vetoing it on the basis of Keystone XL would be a major embarrassment to the Dems.

has already been vetoed effectively by 0. He, under no circumstances, will approve the construction of that pipeline under his administration nor will he do so if reelected.

A clean bill for one year is a good idea. However, while the plan to have a set point to reinstate the tax is a good one, Congress will continue to punt that can down the road indefinitely. So, how will how will that impact the Social Security “Trust Fund?”

you do not go quite far enough. Not only have the Congressional Republicans abandoned the core Republican (conservative) principle that tax cuts pay for themselves, they have ceded the language to the Democrats by allowing the phrase “Bush Tax Cuts (for the RICH)” to become the standard phraseology rather than what they actually are: Clinton Tax Increases. The value in the proper use of the language can be seen in the fact that following (no, I don’t know how long it took and I don’t care) these Clinton Tax Increases that the U.S. economy slipped into a recession and did not recover until after Dubya was sworn in.

The Democrats have already ceded the point that tax cuts spur economic growth as well as the reciprocal: Tax Increases are a drag on economic growth.

As for the box in which Boehner et al now find themselves, rather than whining or complaining about how the President or the Senate won’t play ball, he should simply do as Charles Krauthammer has suggested: Pass the bill exactly as the Senate sent it to him with one modification: make the FICA cut 12 months instead of 2 months and then shut up. The next one to open his yap loses.

As it now is playing out, not only is he losing, he is looking weak and allowing Obama and Reid to make him look foolish.

I meant to say:
Well, I suppose some myths can be useful rhetorically if and insofar as they exploit ignorance (and inadequate analytical ability in this case) to achieve policy that is in the best interest of the nation (but which wouldn’t be adopted if people were not misled on some related point), but it’s unethical…

One of the paramount lessons new recruits are taught in basic infantry training is the two most dangerous soldiers are the coward and the wannabe hero. The coward is undependable, will shirk their duty in the rear and be missing from combat when needed. Cowards cause good soldiers to work much harder. Wannabe heros ignore carefully prepared battle plans and charge the enemy when they should crawl, they break formation from flankiing manuvers to cross open goround against heavily defended positions. They are 20 times more desperate to win glory and attention than to actually win battles and accomplish meaningful objectives. They place themselves in danger, expose thier comrades to sudden counter attack and must often be resued from situations they never should have gotten into, often at great cost. Wannabe heros get good soldiers killed, often lose battles and can even lose wars.

Mitch McConnell and John Boehner, two of the best legislative field generals in Washington today, are often criticized by uniformed amatuers who could not successfully enact a post office naming bill. Both of them have been hampered by political coswards and wannabe heros. Their current battle has not gone well. But the pending Deomcrat victory is not a failure of the battle plan, rather it is the result of Tea Party wannabe heros insisting on charging streight into a solid wall of predicatble negative fire. These wannabes will dominate conservative talk radio for the next 2 months, they will write blog posts extolling principal over practicality. They will damn McConnell and Boehner as squishy RINOs who lacked the spine to lead a modern Pickett’s charge. They will heap blame on everyone else while patting themselves on the back for their prinipaled idological purity.

But the truth is that in 12 months we will not be preparing to move forward with a conservative agenda after taking control of the White House and Senate. We will instead be looking forward to four more years of Obama and Reid as well as the return of speaker Pelosi. And it will result from the Tea Party wannabe heros failure to ever accept the need to act tacticly to achieve a position to enact real change. Those of us who have toiled in the trenches for the past 30 years thank you for setting us back at least a decade. We have recovered from worse and will do so again.

27% cut in payments will lead to a log jam of Medicare payments.

Last year Congress graciously (and late) passed a retroactive fix. What a billing nightmare. What a cashflow disaster as Medicate decided to withhold payments for a while to see what Congress would do. Payments refunded and then repaid, the excess paperwork – accounts were being adjusted into July if not August. Thank Heaven Blue Cross and others didn’t bother to adjust payments (based on Medicare amounts), and we see it is only to get worse as Govt gets more involved.
Good luck finding a doctor who accepts Medicare in 5 years.

Oh come on. A 2 month extension of a 2% tax cut for a household earning $50,000 is $166.67. Let nothing get done. The world will not end. And instead of extending this 2% cut for one year, have a payroll holiday for both employer and employee (total of 15.3%) for 1 month and an additional payroll holiday for 1 month for employee.

Oh come on. A 2 month extension of a 2% tax cut for a household earning $50,000 is $166.67. Let nothing get done. The world will not end. And instead of extending this 2% cut for one year, have a payroll holiday for both employer and employee (total of 15.3%) for 1 month and an additional payroll holiday for 1 month for employee.

What does happen when doctors and health care professionals won’t work for Medicare wages?

Daniel Horowitz made the point that: “All wages in excess of $18,350 for January and February will be taxed at the old rate of 6.2%. This provision was inserted in order to preclude those with high incomes from meeting their full payroll tax obligation during the first two months.”

Why doesn’t the GOP talk the pipeline up more? Reducing fuel prices and joblessness is more important than a $300 tax shift which can be paid back anyway. Furthermore, when a deal is finally made it can be made retroactive to January 1. Am I correct in assuming the desire for a bicameral conference is about the pipeline?

The DC elites play the political game. They throw a little red meat to the base once in awhile. They don’t mind trading majority/minority status. It’s probably easier to be in minority status. Just do a little opposition for the cameras then off to a swanky DC restaurant with lobbyists and later to a cocktail party. At home later, they check to see how their insider trading deal of the day did in the market.

They have largely fake, back and forth jawboning just like interviewing the wrestlers before and after the fake pro wrestling matches.

What a mess.

EE’s post says (correctly, in my view) that we have already lost this round. EE’s proposal to make the “cut” permanent is creative, but won’t gain traction: Obama and Reid can avoid discussing the merits of anything the House Republicans propose now simply by keeping the Senate recessed.

In recognition of our defeat, perhaps the best thing to do is to pass the Senate bill. The silver lining is that Obama and Reid will own the bill’s warts.

We should focus our energy on future rounds. First and vital lesson: do NOT trust McConnell. The issue is not his loyalty; the issue is his competence. Reid clearly out-generalled McConnell.

What a mess.

EE’s post says (correctly, in my view) that we have already lost this round. EE’s proposal to make the “cut” permanent is creative, but won’t gain traction: Obama and Reid can avoid discussing the merits of anything the House Republicans propose now simply by keeping the Senate recessed.

In recognition of our defeat, perhaps the best thing to do is to pass the Senate bill. The silver lining is that Obama and Reid will own the bill’s warts.

We should focus our energy on future rounds. First and vital lesson: do NOT trust McConnell. The issue is not his loyalty; the issue is his competence. Reid clearly out-generalled McConnell.

For years the Democrats have wanted to eliminate the income cap on payroll taxes to shift more of the SS burden to the middle and upper classes. Lowering the payroll tax rate is a back-door way to accomplishes this goal. Thankfully, the Senate gave the House Republicans an out.

give McConnell the weak candidate something strong to hold on to too get reelected. McConnell is up for reelection so the single most important thing to KY republicans is to primary this azz clown out of office.

Anyway, the idea of a cut in the payroll tax as stimulator is strictly from outer space, note scrambling for alternative financing.
Take note as well of the careful avoidence of the name Social Security, something that the nations heavy sleepers might have noticed.
This bomb should have been fought against all along, killed in it’s crib.

“It has been a defining principle of the GOP that drives the left crazy that tax cuts need not be paid for. Tax cuts generate economic grown which then cause the tax cuts to pay for themselves.”

PAYING for something implies that it takes money to purchase the item in question. Tax cuts are simply allowing taxpayers to keep more of what they have already earned.

It comes down to defining the issue and securing the narrative…and sadly, we have a shortage of candidates and policy makers on our side who can adequately define these realities to the voting public.

I agree. Making a stand when the vast majority of Americans are likely to blame you for allowing taxes to increase for anyone in this economy is not likely to gain much support. Go for some certainty with a year long payroll tax reduction, creating certainty for business and employees without administrative confusion, and come back after the New Year with programs designed increase growth and eliminate government waste.

Do not leave the corrupt-o-crat controlled Senate any political opportunity to claim the high ground, which they don’t deserve. Had it not been for their constant efforts to obstruct any effort at righting this economic or even consider legislation proposed by the House, we would not be in the position of going from crisis to crisis now. As happened in the House during the mid-terms, we need to ensure that we continue the process of removing those that would bankrupt America both socially and economically for their own idealogical and personal benefit. Removal of the corrupt and the go-along-to-get-along in both parties has got to be our primary objective.

What is so difficult about a payroll department continuing to deduct 4.4% from an employee’s paycheck (as they are currently doing) until 02/29/12 and begin deducting 6.4% from that paycheck on 03/01/12 ? Basic math skills in an individual or a basic program change to a computer program will accomplish the task. A 2 month extention …..silly?—yes…….waste of accounting resources?—yes…….a major problem?—–not so much.

First, I’m still at a loss to understand why anyone thinks it’s good to continue a “payroll tax holiday” on Social Security taxes, when Social Security is one of the two biggest causes for our country’s deficit.

And second–and this is what scares me most–I’m not certain that “principle” is a word that can be attached in any way to more than a handful of the 535 members of our Congress.

With the constant, year-long brinksmanship games we’ve been seeing from Congress this year, I am rapidly coming to the same conclusion Peter Schweizer has apparently already reached–and not just because of “insider” stock tradking on the part of members of Congress. Save for the handful of truly principled men (and/or women) there, who actually put country first before all else, “Throw Them All Out!”

You can’t outflank an opponent when surrounded. I give them a week, and then they fold.

If they don’t believe in extending this tax brake, as many of the conference negotiators appointed by Boehner have said they are, then the principled thing to do is oppose it, not double down and make it permanent for political gain.

John Boehner is just a step away from being a liberal. All of the GOP has moved to the center at a minimum. The last time the GOP had any clout was when Reagan was President and the conservatives were in control. Reagan’s biggest mistake ws leaving G W H Bush in office for his second term. Bush and the entire Bush family is just a heart beat away form being liberal’s. The Elite Republicans have no desire for conservatives to take over again. One Additional problem is the John Boehner doens’t have a clue about what he is doing.

While Cantor minimized the differences between the House and Senate, saying they could be worked out “in an hour or two,” another House Republican, freshman Rep. Tom Reed (N.Y.) said there were “major substantive differences” between the two bills.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/200973-house-gop-refuses-to-cave-on-payroll-tax

…is a mess (as usual). Our leaders (?) are either at cross-purposes, triangulating, energizing the base, or lack for a functional communications machine (as usual)… and we’ll be saying this through November ’12, when we’ll all be praying for our leaders to issue that last minute knockout Friday-before-election-day punch through the media – which will never be delivered, also as usual.

Only reason I’m adding this is so redstaters don’t get too disheartened by this particular debacle, which will LONG be forgotten by election day. By that time I guarantee that there will be dozens of other big! unforgivable!! unforgettable!!! messaging matches between the Dems and the Repubs taking top billing in the MSM that will have put this specific can of worms well into the shade, That won’t fix our current leadership quandary or our eternal communications failures, but this won’t bury us.

saying that the House Republicans are caving in on this one. Anyone have more info to corroborate (or refute)?

I have to say, it doesn’t surprise me since most Republican leaders are weasels. I think the writing is on the wall now…Romney will be our nominee and the neo-socialists will be in charge of the RNC, and Senate and House Republican leadership.

The Republican Party sucks…..this country sucks…..

The senate appoints conferees and the ‘special’ tax issue in the senate bill is removed from the 2 month extension.
I wish I still had the link – but this is a big win for the House GOP because of the Conference committee rules – and all of the things that are included and excluded in this conference committee negotiation
The mass media will never get it right, but this is a big win for the House.

The senate appoints conferees and the ‘special’ tax issue in the senate bill is removed from the 2 month extension.
I wish I still had the link – but this is a big win for the House GOP because of the Conference committee rules – and all of the things that are included and excluded in this conference committee negotiation
The mass media will never get it right, but this is a big win for the House.

If we had a Senate minority leader with guts and/or balls, then Obama and Reid wouldnot get away with so much. I hope McConnell gets an extremely serious challenge in his next primary election, and loses.

As they often say in The House, the other party is our opponent, the Senate is our enemy. Of course, the Founders set it up that way, divided in powers and in interest, so that little would get done. That means that sometimes, good things don’t get done.

This is just a test