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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

What’s the Difference Between the Heritage Foundation & Newt Gingrich & Mitt Romney

UPDATED: Corrected to note that, like Heritage, Gingrich too no longer favors the individual mandate.

——

The individual mandate is an idea from the Heritage Foundation. Unfortunately, the person who came up with the individual mandate never lost his job and Heritage as the brain child has given cover to both Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich for their support of it.

But the individual mandate is not conservative despite its Heritage Foundation origins and gives to the congress more power than is allotted it in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution.

Consider, though, that MItt Romney stills cling to the individual mandate as a good idea. The Heritage Foundation itself has long since apologized and repudiated the individual mandate. Back in 2010, Robert Moffitt of the Heritage Foundation wrote, “Our research in the ensuing two decades has led us to realize our initial idea was operationally ineffective and legally defective.”

Unfortunately, its creator is still around no doubt coming up with other bad ideas using the Heritage label to defend. But fortunately, the Heritage Foundation and Newt Gingrich, unlike Romney, is willing to admit when it makes a mistake.

COMMENTS

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Romney hasn’t.

  • ajdx3

    President Romney.

    Get used to it!

  • heraklios

    .

  • heraklios

    Daily Kos, HP, TPM, New York Times are probably more to your liking

  • http://boldcolor.blogspot.com/ Paula

    It’s cowardly for these candidates to continue to take cover behind Heritage. If you agreed with the mandate at the time, own it and move on. Saying you only agreed with it because Heritage told you agree with it makes you look like you can’t make your own decisions.

    As an aside, Newt has a habit of doing this any time his past positions are called into question. He did the same thing on embryonic stem cell research, hiding behind Sen. Bill Frist.

  • quill67

    He has said so very clearly AND explains why:

    “Once you have a mandate, the government has to specify exactly what coverage must be included in insurance for it to qualify. This introduces political considerations into determining these minimum standards, guaranteeing that nothing desired by the special interests will be left out,” it says. “In the 1990s, Newt and many other conservatives, such as the Heritage Foundation, proposed a mandate to purchase health insurance as the alternative to Hillarycare. However, the problems outlined above caused Newt to come to the principled conclusion that a mandate to purchase health insurance was unconstitutional, unworkable and counterproductive to lowering the cost of health care.”

    http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/273085/20111227/newt-gingrich-mitt-romney-health-care-massachusetts.htm

  • jakeofalltrades

    n/t

  • jakeofalltrades

    he just doesn’t like how the Democrats would mangle it.

    The Conservative position is a little more libertine.

  • Marcus_Traianus

    Article

    How does repealing ObamaCare, which all the candidate have pledged to do, qualify as “clinging” to the individual mandate?

    It seems to me all the candidates have disavowed the “individual mandate” and cited it as basis for repeal.

    Whether they supported it in the past is another discussion. As it is for Heritage.

  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Jacobson get2djnow

    and Newt would. What else is there to say on the issue?

    Newt said he would when speaking with JC Watts on Tuesday. Mitt was on the Today Show defending Obamacare.

    Everything that Newt is saying comes from a Conservative position. Romney won’t “lower” himself to moving for the primary. Really he can’t he can bring himself to espouse Conservative views.

  • heraklios

    He is more than welcome to express his opinion but a conservative site that clearly indicates in its posting rules that it is a conservative site, is no place for Romney propoganda

  • heraklios

    He is more than welcome to express his opinion but a conservative site that clearly indicates in its posting rules that it is a conservative site, is no place for Romney propoganda

  • quill67

    Just as the first settlers hoped they could share equally in the crops they produced, but quickly learned that people would not work if they got everything without working.

    You could say Newt learned that you cannot require someone to buy health insurance without the government getting too involved so that it becomes unworkable.

    Romney has yet to learn this obvious lesson.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Newt opposed the mandate but still thinks there should be 100% coverage. He’s looking at ideas on how that might be possible.

    Conservatives also want 100% coverage, but the solution so far has been to sit back and whine about it. That seems to be the default position on a lot of other issues too.

  • romansdaughter

    He just got done saying on National TV that he thought Obamacare was actually conservative. I think Willard thinks he has this election in the bag and now is starting to get over confident. I hope he starts opening his mouth more and more— as he is not one bit conservative.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I want freedom of choice in the marketplace. I don’t want the old and inform force-subsidized by the young and healthy.

  • carolynr

    nt

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    100% of the people pay for their own care. How each person/family accomplishes that should be up to them, and government should get out of the way so people can choose.

  • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

    I’m trying to figure out a scenario where -anyone’s- position on healtchare could be considered “libertine.” Maybe Jennifer Aniston’s character in “Horrible Bosses.”

    And almost everyone on “Grey’s Anatomy.”

    Sorry.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    I’m in favor of a safety net for the truly poor, and have no problem paying for that. Even then, their choice should be market-based, not government-mandated.

  • carolynr

    Look…this country is in big trouble and we don’t need some dolt that lies to be our president…that is unless you like liars. Anyone but this guy. I will not listen to this crap. Shoot…I would just as soon move out of this country than to watch it go down the crapper with Romney.

    So…no…I won’t get use to it…and yes…I will do what I can…if he gets elected…get the heck out of dodge. Oh well…there goes another taxpayer that won’t be around to support WILLARD’S regime.

  • jakeofalltrades

    A very distant second to Perry.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    That’d be pretty dang libertine.

  • jakeofalltrades

    I knew it was wrong when I was typing it, but I didn’t care enough to fix it.

    Nip Tuck?

  • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

    solid point.

  • romansdaughter

    We do not need another Liar-in-Chief. Pride comes before a fall and Willard has bucket loads of it.

  • Bill S

    is perfectly acceptable here.

    Do that again and you’re gone.

  • jakeofalltrades

    My policy: if I didn’t get the pleasure of knocking her up or infecting her, I shouldn’t get the pain of paying for her abortion/contraception/VD care.

  • Bill S

    This kind of comment is unproductive. Next time do something other than poke people in the eye with sharp sticks.

  • snowshooze

    And it is fun to discuss them. Pick one, and I’ll find the other…
    Heraklios… I understand. I am sure a good deal of us agree with you.

  • jakeofalltrades

    nt

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    I’d like a reference for future discussions if you have it please.

  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Jacobson get2djnow

    The media would just bash the living daylights out of another Texan with an inability to string 2 intelligent sentences together. When Perry blew the question, that he set up, about what agencies to shut down, that was when I decided that Perry as the top dog on the ticket, was done.

  • Melody Warbington (rwm52)

    Like Viagra for instance. Based on your reasoning (I agree in principle), if one doesn’t get the pleasure provided as a result of the ‘scrip, one shouldn’t have to share in the coverage thereof. Further, without the Viagra, one might argue there would be fewer pregnancies. Agreed? I just get a little tired of seeing only one side of the equation discussed.

    Note: I am in no way implying that the real men of redstate are in need of such a prescription. Real men of redstate are reminiscent of the real men of genius ads, so I offer a video tribute to anyone who might be offended. As a non-drinker, I am not endorsing Bud Light or any other alcoholic beverages. I just like the ads. And I hope this isn’t too far off topic. And I hope nobody I know sees this comment. LOL.

  • Samsara

    not a dimes worth of difference, except Mitt has slightly better hair.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Holy crap. I guess it should be a deductible business expense for male prostitutes in Nevada, but that’s about it.

  • Bill S

    There are medical conditions such as prostate cancer that cause real, live “ED” (see: Bob Dole). Viagra and other similar drugs are important treatments for a condition that arose from surgery, illness, etc. Contrary to popular belief, they’re not just used by porn actors and “male prostitutes” who want to, uh, perform longer.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Will the indigent die or suffer without government reimbursement for Viagra?

    I just don’t think government should pay for every creature comfort. If it’s necessary, then I’m okay with it.

  • Bill S

    (For medically-appropriate conditions) And if you consider that a “creature comfort”, then you obviously haven’t had prostate cancer. I have…at age 47.

  • Melody Warbington (rwm52)

    no text

  • jakeofalltrades

    The problem I’m having here is that I see a distinction between:

    1. Life-sustaining medicine (penicillin, insulin, anti-coagulants, immunosuppressants, anti-depressants)

    2. Life-enhancing medicine (rogaine, breast implants, viagra, sexual reassignment surgery)

    For a 47-year-old man, I think the Viagra belongs more in category 1 as an anti-depressant.

    It’s a line-drawing issue. These issues always get messy, which is why I try to stay clear, as there’s no principled answer to give here other than “cover the bare minimum” and “cover everything”.

  • Bill S

    Yes, all clear for > 3 years. I actually started on RS when I was recovering from the surgery.

    The point you make is certainly pertinent. I wouldn’t expect coverage for an 85-yr-old victim, but for someone younger it is more than “enhancing”.

    The point I’m making is: one cannot generalize about stuff like this based on stereotypes and TV ads.

  • heraklios

  • heraklios

  • jakeofalltrades

    n.t.

  • Wubbies World

    … granted Romney’s changing positions are not encouraging, but Romney has executive experience and is not a narcissistic man-child. Romney may be an establishment guy, but he is a capitalist and not a socialist. He is also realistic too. Those are big differences.

    Now I am absolutely not a Romney supporter, and I will have to drink to pull the handle for him, but if it is between Obama and Romney, I will pull the handle for Romney every time.

  • heraklios

    Just Sayin…

  • Wubbies World

    … my family still lives there. Yea, the socialized medicine thing is bad news and is one of the things I am unhappy about, but please reference my “not a Romney supporter” comment.

    However, you don’t work for Bain Capital and not be a capitalist. He is a business man and always has been. You can criticize his integrity for being a squish, but you can’t call him a socialist.

  • Wubbies World

    Gosh, I do not believe I just argued a supporting position for Romney.

    Wow, I didn’t enjoy that, but between an (R) and Obama, the (R) is absolutely better, except for Ron Paul of course.

  • lineholder

    Our health care system operates more under the principles of Managed Capitalism, not free-market capitalism. It’s still something of a hybrid, meaning that free-market capitalism hasn’t been totally eradicated. But after reading some of the comments here, I’m not sure how many people understand how the elements of Managed Capitalism limit the choices we have.

    And I’m not trying to sound like a know-it-all or anything of that sort. It’s just that being able to understand the difference between the two does influence what options we have and how to approach it from this point forward.

    Maybe one of the mods might consider presenting this topic in an article of some sort. Just a suggestion.

  • heraklios

    Today’s Wall Street, especially the investment banks, capital management funds and hedge funds receive so many tax breaks, support and subsidies from the government that it takes gross mis-management for many of them to fail. The government has gotten so involved with Wall Street (TARP, fed discount window, 15% tax rate for hedge fund interest income and investment income, cash for clunkers, Fannie and Freddie, along with hundreds of tax loopholes and breaks that only tax experts know about) that Romney’s financial success at Bain can hardly be attibuted solely to his business acumen and status as a “capitalist”

    On the contrary, Romney grossly interfered with the markets by approving mandatory health coverage and government run care in MA. He also presided over big government in MA, which he may not have created, but he certainly did nothing to roll back.

  • heraklios

    Today’s Wall Street, especially the investment banks, capital management funds and hedge funds receive so many tax breaks, support and subsidies from the government that it takes gross mis-management for many of them to fail. The government has gotten so involved with Wall Street (TARP, fed discount window, 15% tax rate for hedge fund interest income and investment income, cash for clunkers, Fannie and Freddie, along with hundreds of tax loopholes and breaks that only tax experts know about) that Romney’s financial success at Bain can hardly be attibuted solely to his business acumen and status as a “capitalist”

    On the contrary, Romney grossly interfered with the markets by approving mandatory health coverage and government run care in MA. He also presided over big government in MA, which he may not have created, but he certainly did nothing to roll back.

  • Wubbies World

    … I do not consider Romney important enough to waste a whole lot of time arguing over.

    For what its worth. I am a Perry supporter and have been on this site over 5 years. I just work crazy long hours and don’t get to comment much anymore. I am enjoying the holiday slow time right now.

    I would quibble one point though. All the things you accuse Romney of are consistent with a Fascist type of government / business relationship. That is not the same as socialism.

    Fascism is the epitome of Crony Capitalism where the government makes sure business are well controlled, but not owned by the government. As we learned in the 1970′s and 1980′s and the unraveling of the interstate commerce laws and airline regulation under Reagan, government regulations can be undone. What Obama wants is socialist and involves the government owning the jobs engine totally. They don’t call GM Government Motors for nothing now.

    The central difference is private property rights and Obama and the Democrats would rather the government own it.

  • Ann_W

    It has changed significantly since then. And much of his time there was actually hands on with the businesses that they were trying to turn around.

  • Ann_W

    A businessman that made very successful decisions to turn around businesses is going to have much better instincts than Barry’s socialist instincts. He also succeeded very well at turning around the Olympics when other businessmen tried and failed.

    He’s not my favorite candidate by far, but he will be many, many times better than Obama. You guys need to calm down, he may be the nominee.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Newt’s latest position on the mandate.

    I will admit that Newt has been all over the map on this. He saw the problems with it in Mass. Enough to know it was a bad idea after all. I think that’s the case with some other people too.

    Seems to be typical Newt. He’s got a thousand ideas on every issue running around in his head, and they flow out of his mouth without restraint.

  • drfredc

    The core problem with “Health Care Reform” in many wonk tanks is their solutions are predicated upon the notion that any solution must come from the top down, rather than bottom up. Apparently, this virus also exists in some closets in the Heritage Foundation.

    For starters, if one honestly tosses out all the disguises and masks surrounding “health care reform” one uncovers this question is all about “health care financing”, not health care reform. Dive a little deeper and one discovers the core financing issue forks into at least two roads as far as those not paying into the system goes — those who have limited means, and those who could pay, but chose not to.

    The individual mandate only applies to this second group AND makes the FALSE assumption that one must prepay into coverage to get care. Yes, boys and girls, the Supremes have already ruled on this — those in need must get care.

    The real issue is how to get Bubba, who has the means to pay for care but choose not to, to pay for Bubba’s care. Seems like at this point, the only folks in the room must have been insurance geeks, as the only solutions are about Bubba (beyond their will) prepay for his care — otherwise known as insurance. Yet, if there had any honest banker in left in the room, at least one other solution might have been offered — let Bubba post pay for his care thru some sort of loan. Or perhaps the banker and carrier might have had a lunch and figured out how to offer a combo package that mixed in paying off the loan for uncovered care, and coverage for the duration of the loan. Perhaps a truly creative goup might figure out how to amortize the time Bubba was not paying his share for catastrophic coverage into the mix and toss Bubba’s expenses into a pool.

    In other words, there all all sorts of market place options available to help stabilize the health care financing social marketplaces. Additionally, these solutions don’t require a top down federal law solution. Rather it would seem prudently eliminate federal (and state) laws that restrict the market from adapting more flexible payment systems for care. Responsible solutions do require systems and markets that promote, if not reward, personal responsibility to take charge of financing one’s own health care. In other words, proper solutions focus will “promote the general welfare” rather than mandate it.

  • marktx

    …and by his second term in as president, the US economy was on the verge of a depression.

    Romney’s record as governor is far more indicative of what type of president he would be than his resume in the private sector.

  • marktx

    Back in 1993 Hillary Clinton’s “Hillarycare” scheme failed for one reason. And that was due to the insurance lobby’s strong opposition to the plan. Why ? Because “HillaryCare” didn’t include an individual mandate. The health insurance lobby wasn’t willing to support legislation that forced them to increase benefits that cut into their profits unless they could bring in new premiums. And without a mandate, they opposed HillaryCare.

    Since that time, numerous think tanks have come up with new ideas on how to “influence” public opinion on forced mandates, while at the same time giving politicians political cover for such support. The Heritage foundation is one such organization.

  • bs61

    and any other candidate that we put up there, so I’m sticking with who I like best. In my opinion, America doesn’t need another smooth talker!

  • David123

    and I didn’t watch the one where he forgot the third agency – but heh, people sometimes forget things. I won’t hold a momentary brain freeze against Perry.

  • quill67

    be reduced to pay for the assistance they recieve or they could choose to use reduce SS to pay for insurance IF THEY Chose.

    See post here:

    http://www.redstate.com/quill67/2011/12/27/health-care-safety-net-without-individual-mandate/

  • Ann_W

    GWB’s record doesn’t comapare at all to Romney’s in the private sector, much less extensive. The Olympic turnaround was public/private as well.

    I, too, hope that Romney wouldn’t be the same in DC that he was as the gov as a DEEP blue state like Massachusetts. I guess that’s a risk. However, he’s not as horrible as people here are making him out to be. If Tim Pawlenty, Mitch Daniels, or even a pre-allegations Cain I would be happy to vote for them. However, they aren’t and if you looked in detail at Romney’s leadership experience it counts for something vs. Newt’s going around pontificating combined with simply legislative experience.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Newt’s been a successful businessman since he left office in 1998. One could say his experience as a small businessman is better than Romney’s hedge fund experience which will hurt him in the general.

    And at least Newt’s legislative experience includes improving the conservative cause. Romney’s is quite the opposite.

  • acat

    then let me point out that Cain’s trumps Romney’s…

    Oh, and don’t forget that Bachmann has some as well.

    Seriously, business experience is good, but – as with executive experience – it’s not a jacket all by itself.

    Mew

  • Ann_W

    having been the speaker of the house. I couldn’t get that gig, could you?

  • Ann_W

    I donated to him when he was. But he isn’t around.

  • satchman3

    If folks wh are above the ‘truly poor’ leven decide to decline insurance and then need it, are you willing to let them die for their decision?

    This is an issue that I struggle with quite a bit. Previously I was in the libertarian camp where you get the consequences of your decision including death but as I’ve gotten older I’ve decided that I don’t want to live in a society that let’s dumb people die.

    Not trying to start an incendiary comment war but this is something that I think about so I’m curious for others thoughts.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    So we aren’t supposed to use our prior experience to enhance our employment opportunities? Perhaps I erred when I put my previous experience on my resume that I used to acquire my current job. I was certainly taking advantage of those previous employers who gave me a paycheck while gaining that valuable experience.

    So no, I couldn’t get that gig, but then Newt couldn’t get mine either.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    –no-text–

  • acat

    The question is what rationing strategy heals the most people.

    My conclusion is that the strategies that reduce the number of middlemen, thus increasing the dollars available for doctors, nurses, equipment, and supplies, is the best one.

    Remove insurance as a “benefit”, let people see it as a “cost”, and let them choose what insurance they need, and what they’re willing to pay.

    Mew

  • acat

    So .. some may caucus for him.

    And he’s been circulating his name as wanting to be the next SecDef.

    Mew

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    I’m still struggling to control the laughter.

  • acat

    getting a pizza delivered could scale to getting the USMC delivered…

    Sorta.

    If I squint.

    Hey, maybe he could improve MREs to where they’re actually edible!

    Mew

  • Ann_W

    Isn’t exactly my ideal of developing capitalistic instincts.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    They really weren’t that bad, and because I liked the ham & eggs I could trade for almost another entire meal, especially if I had the franks & beans.

    As for Cain, I’ve had real pizza in Italy, and I’ve had Godfather’s. Trust me when I say, Godfather’s is to real pizza what Army food is to real food.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    I mean, if truth be damned, let’s just call Romney out loud what everyone is thinking anyway. And if I have a choice between the influence peddler that was never a lobbyist and the socialist, I’ll take the former every time.

    At least Newt’s actions while he was in a government position were capitalistic and conservative. That’s just not the case with Romney. And we are, after all, trying to elect someone to the highest government position, not the CEO of a private company, so prior government experience would be the most telling of future performance.

  • acat

    Italians don’t think much of what we call pizza.

    Never tried Godfathers. Why, when there’s Gino’s or Giordano’s or Uno’s or Chicago Pizza and Oven Grinders or a dozen others ?

    You’re generally right about mass-market pizza – Little Caesars or Dominos or Pizza Hut aren’t bad, but they’re not great either.

    I don’t see where any of this qualifies Cain for SecDef, but .. a lot of goofy stuff could happen at a brokered convention.

    Mew

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    I’ve been to Chicago and had pizza there too. Having said that, New York pizza is still better, and pizza in Italy is way better than either. I’m going to be there in a couple of weeks…..can’t wait!

    I don’t see us getting a brokered convention. I think Perry or Gingrich will come out of South Carolina alive and kicking and take Romney down on Super Tuesday. If neither does, Romney runs away with it.

  • Melody Warbington (rwm52)

    Loved the pizza in Italy during my one and only visit there many years ago. Better bread/crust and not too heavy on the sauce. We actually have a couple of local joints here in Birmingham that are much better than any of the chains. Hard to believe, I know.

    I hope you’re right about Newt & Perry. Have a good time on your trip.

  • acat

    New York pizza is soggy-crusted, greasy, and in general disgusting.

    (but it is a matter of taste, and I’m not a purist)

    I hope you’re right about S.C. and FL giving enough of a boost to an actual conservative. I’m also hoping Romney pulls an “Asian F” (i.e. anything other than an A) finish in New Hampshire…

    Mew

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    Yeah, I know all about the Chicago vs. NYC pizza thing. Compared to Italy, you both suck. :P