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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Rick Santorum, Earmarxists, and the Pro-Life Statist

A number of people read my post yesterday about Rick Santorum and still are scratching their heads. In my book RedState Uprising I spent a bit of time dealing with “pro-life statists” who will be the death of the conservative movement if we do not start standing up to them.

Rick Santorum is a pro-life statist. My friend Ned Ryun introduced me to the term and his post on pro-life statists written in the wake of Congressman Mark Souder’s resignation sums up every issue I have with Rick Santorum.

 

“A hard-line conservative, Souder recently survived a tough GOP primary in the Hoosier State, edging two opponents who held him under 50 percent. Souder’s Republican rivals criticized Souder over his support for the Troubled Asset Relief Program and Cash for Clunkers programs.”

I take exception to that description: no real conservative would have voted for TARP or Cash for Clunkers. The mistake made is the assumption that because someone is pro-life means he or she is a conservative. Someone who is pro-life, but votes to expand the state and state spending, is in fact not a conservative, but a pro-life statist.

As someone who is deeply pro-life, and became even more so when my daughter was born four months premature, I absolutely believe in the sanctity of life. But I have a problem with many elected officials who call themselves social conservatives, as though that were all that mattered, and then go and vote for more government and more government spending.

The bigger government becomes, the more invasive it becomes, the more it becomes the enemy of life and freedom. So these pro-life statists show a deep ignorance of government and freedom: the greatest freedom is economic freedom. I say that because if you are an economic ward of the state, you can neither be politically or religiously free. Exhibit A: China. The invasive state dictates how many children you may have, the free flow of information, and political freedom is not even worth really discussing.

I believe one of the reasons that we have gotten to this stage as a country, with the massive growth of government, is because some have thought only one or two social issues are all that matter, and willingly give a pass on pretty much everything else. To those people I would say enough, stop living under an illusion. You must become more comprehensive in your conservatism.

Rick Santorum participated in raiding the federal treasury as an earmarxist, perfectly happy to pork away on Pennsylvania’s behalf. He did not join conservatives who fought against No Child Left Behind. He did not join conservatives who fought against the prescription drug benefit.

Rick Santorum was part of the problem in Washington. He was one of the Republicans the public rejected in 2006. The voters in Pennsylvania rejected him in 2006 because of his and the Republicans’ profligate ways. Along with Tom DeLay, Rick Santorum led the K Street Project, which traded perks for lobbyists for money for the GOP funded with your tax dollars through earmarks and pork projects.

Sure, you can say 2006 was a bad year for Republicans, but in 2006 Rick Santorum fell 18 percentage points behind his Democratic rival and his defeat and terrible campaign can be linked to the loss of four Pennsylvania house seats.

That was not a defeat for Rick Santorum. It was punishment. He is a pro-life statist and I see nothing in his career since leaving Washington that shows he has changed his ways.

Fred Barnes of the Weekly Standard coined the term “big government conservatives” in an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal. He wrote

IS PRESIDENT BUSH really a conservative? When that question came up this summer, the White House went into crisis mode. Bush aides summoned several of Washington’s conservative journalists to a 6:30 a.m. breakfast at the White House to press the case for the president’s adherence to conservative principles. Aides outnumbered journalists. Other conservative writers and broadcasters were invited to luncheon sessions. They heard a similar spiel.

The White House needn’t have bothered. The case for Bush’s conservatism is strong. Sure, some conservatives are upset because he has tolerated a surge in federal spending, downplayed swollen deficits, failed to use his veto, created a vast Department of Homeland Security, and fashioned an alliance of sorts with Teddy Kennedy on education and Medicare. But the real gripe is that Bush isn’t their kind of conventional conservative. Rather, he’s a big government conservative. This isn’t a description he or other prominent conservatives willingly embrace. It makes them sound as if they aren’t conservatives at all. But they are. They simply believe in using what would normally be seen as liberal means—activist government—for conservative ends. And they’re willing to spend more and increase the size of government in the process.

Being a big government conservative doesn’t bring Bush close to being a moderate, much less a liberal. On most issues, his position is standard conservative: a pro-lifer who expects to sign a ban on partial birth abortion, he’s against stem-cell research and gun control, and has drawn the line at gay marriage. His judicial nominees are so uniformly conservative that liberals are furious.

That’s Rick Santorum. He sees government as the means to conservative ends. But in using government to get conservative ends he has expanded government and set precedents for liberals to use government in the same ways for more liberal government. Rick Santorum was complicit in making Americans more dependent on government and justified it under the rubric of compassion.

Before Rick Santorum was purged from Washington for his pro-life statism, the Washington Post summed up his, George Bush’s, and the GOP’s sins in an editorial titled “Big Government Conservatism.”

Back in 1987, when Mr. Reagan applied his veto to what was generally known at the time as the highway and mass transit bill, he was offended by the 152 earmarks for pet projects favored by members of Congress. But on Wednesday Mr. Bush signed a transportation bill containing no fewer than 6,371 earmarks. Each one of these, as Mr. Reagan understood but Mr. Bush apparently doesn’t, amounts to a conscious decision to waste taxpayers’ dollars. One point of an earmark is to direct money to a project that would not receive money as a result of rational judgments based on cost-benefit analyses.

Mr. Bush, who had threatened to veto wasteful spending bills, chose instead to cave in. He did so despite the fact that in addition to a record number of earmarks the transportation bill came with a price tag that he had once called unacceptable. The bill has a declared cost of $286 billion over five years plus a concealed cost of a further $9 billion; Mr. Bush had earlier drawn a line in the sand at $256 billion, then drawn another line at $284 billion. Asked to explain the president’s capitulation, a White House spokesman pleaded that at least this law would be less costly than the 2003 Medicare reform. This is a classic case of defining deviancy down.

This is why I do not support Rick Santorum. I do not want a co-conspirator to government largess premised on the rhetoric of compassionate or big government conservatism being rewarded.

COMMENTS

  • mjs65

    When Santorum is the nominee, will you support him or Barack Obama?

  • seanl

    When it comes to earmarks, guess what? Almost every single congress person pre-Tea Party movement has inserted their own earmarks into legislation. Santorum was just being honest about it. So you are getting on his case because he is an honest person. Bizarre.

    The things that you list as negatives on his record are the same things that almost every single Republican in the Senate supported. By your logic every single Republican Senator who served pre-Tea Party movement is persona non grata to conservatives. Ridiculous.

    Furthermore, it is not like any of these things you listed are deeply held beliefs by him. In all likelihood the Senate leadership told him to support these things and he obliged.

    You just had a post where you criticized Ron Paul for not be ?one of the guys? and therefore couldn?t get anything done if he were to be POTUS (which I agree with). So it is bizarre that you are criticizing Santorum for being responsive to the Senate leadership and not being a ?maverick? like Paul.

  • chrysostom15

    What more can one ask for? His record in the Senate was consistently conservative. Is he perfect, no. Is he more conservative than Romney or Obama or Paul, yes.

    Santorum is fine with me. In fact, every republican on that stage is better than Obama.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Because I think I can disprove that negative.

  • runner12

    I agree wholeheartedly. If Conservatism is to win the day, the “pro-life statists” must be defeated.

    God bless Bush and this country would be better off with him as President, but he did not reduce the size of government nor reduce spending when he had the chance. Neither did Santorum.

    We need a President and Congressmen and women who are committed to
    a.) cutting spending b). limited government c). social conservatism d). Constitutional principles. One out of the four will not cut it anymore.

  • jakeofalltrades
  • seanl

    Really? That is why he voted out of office? Because Bob Casey is essentially a pro-life communist and he was the one who the voters preferred in a Democratic wave election year.

    Erick, no offense, but sometimes your arguments are devoid of any reality whatsoever.

  • dave2131

    I am a Pro-Lifer, except when the mother’s life is at stake. Now, I’m not a doctor, so maybe the mothers life isn’t really ever at stake – who knows? (background info – I have been blessed with 5 healthy Children – with # 6 in about 7 more months) I am opposed to Gay marriage, and I am a Christian.

    With that said, I don’t think the (Federal) Government should get involved with abortion, marriage or any social issues. Call me a Libertarian that way if you want, but there is a lot of hypocrisy on our side if we preach limited government/individual rights (think about our cries over the insurance mandate) and then go and try to push our personal views on people through legislation (DOMA). How does that make our side any different from the left?

    I think Santorum and others like him have their heart in the right place, but we need to move people by education not through unpopular legislation. Social issues are a death trap for the GOP and we always fall in them.

  • fellowgeorgian

    Everyone hates politicians-they all have a voting history. Even the new “INSPIRATION” Ron Paul. Nobody can convince me that A N Y body in Washington hasn’t had their pockets lined nor lined someone else’s pockets. PERIOD!

  • pdawk

    You now lead Rick Perry in the polls. You must now face nonstop attacks from the front page mafia. You have been branded the devil and must now suffer.

  • arogerss

    Rick Santorum when given the choice between PatToomey and Arlen Specter chose to endorse Specter. And we all know how that turned out. I promise you not one conservative in Pa ever voted for Santorum again. That is why he lost his Senate seat and will never carry Pa in a gereral election and it should disqualify him as a potential VP selection. Erik, you are right about Santorum being a big government conservative. When he inserted himself in the Schiavo controversy in Florida, he alienated not stew conservatives in Pa. It was heavy handed outside interference in a tragic family circumstance and was done solely to showcase his “family values” candidacy. He should have left those people alone instead of adding to the media circus it became. Santorum was misguided then and is now. By all accounts he shold have my vote since I am a conservative, a Catholic, a Pa. Republican voter of Italian descent. He does not.

  • mcpa1776

    Your analysis is largely correct, and it is something I have often thought myself. But can you please explain how this doesn’t apply to your candidate of choice, Gov. Rick Perry? Perry’s response to why he supported the mandated HPV vaccine was because “I will always side with life.” To every “big government” policy he supports in Texas, he basically hides behind the 10th Amendment (the 10th Amendment may say the states have the right to do something, but for goodness sakes, that doesn’t mean it’s good policy!). I could go on, but I’ll leave it there for now.

  • dave2131

    Federal vs. State in this case. The HPV thing was my big hold up with Perry, but I believe it is much easier to repeal poor state legislation than it is to repeal legislation coming out of D.C..

  • dave2131

    Who’s to say Perry wouldn’t try something like that in D.C…

  • tadams1138

    Erick, holy cow, man. Are you serious? Bob Casey was elected because Santorum was a statist?!?!

    As long as we’re on the subject, all other things being equal, you could do a lot worse electorially with a pro-abortion, small govt* guy. There are plenty of Christians in this country who, when not given the choice for a pro-lifer, will either vote democrat or stay home. We still have a lot of work to do to get them to become small govt fans.

    *small govt on all things except abortion

  • tnguy

    ….for me anyway.

    It’s so hard to believe that we have opposition as beatable as Obama and this is the republican field.

  • seanl

    Perry may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he is extremely cynical. That is why he switched parties when it became clear Dems were losing favor in Texas.

  • heraklios

    I talked to several people at work today who vote Republican almost always or always and none like Mitt Romney. Certainly, none will go to any trouble to vote for him and I’m guessing at least a couple feel like me and won’t under any circumstances.

  • seanl

    n/t

  • gtbw

    don’t we just love cry babies.

  • tricianc

    You pop out with things with no basis of facts. You jump on every single story so you can spout off on Rick Perry.

    Everything you just said here (and mostly everywhere else) is just made up drivel and drive by criticism of which you present nothing of evidence.

    I happen to know why Rick Perry left the Democrat party OVER 20 YEARS AGO. Obviously, you don’t but that doesn’t stop you, as usual.

  • lalupa

    God forbid that a Republican tries to prevent cancer… can’t have that/sarc

  • lalupa

    God forbid that a Republican tries to prevent cancer… can’t have that/sarc

  • bobguzzardi

    brilliantly accurate. The voters of Pennsylvania figured this out before I did.

    There is an epidemic of groupthink among pundits who have not looked at the data.

    Rick Santorum Cannot Win the Presidency because Rick Santorum Cannot win Pennsylvania.

    Former three time US Representative and Senator from Pennsylvania, Rick Santorum, cannot win Pennsylvania and there is a reason for that: the more the voters got to know him and his record, the less they liked him and the less likely they are willing to vote for him.

    The Electoral Data

    In 2006, Rick Santorum received 797,000 fewer votes than in 2000.Had he gotten the same number of votes he got in 2000, he would still be US Senator.

    2006 Rick Santorum lost to Bob “98%” Casey, 2,393,984 to 1,684,778, that is, Incumbent Rick Santorum received 709,208 fewer votes than Democrat challenger Bob Casey who was one of the first Pennsylvania Democrats to endorse Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton in Democratic Primary.

    2006Official Penna Statistics Pennsylvania US Senate vote http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=24&OfficeID=2

    In 2000, Rick Santorum ran for an open Senate seat and received 2,481, 962 or 797,184 more votes than he received in 2006
    http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=2&OfficeID=2

    In 2006, incumbent US Senator not only received fewer votes total, incumbent Rick Santorum received fewer votes in every county in Pennsylvania.

    2006 Senate vote by county http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=24&OfficeID=2

    compare to 2000 county by county vote http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=15&ElectionID=2&OfficeID=2

    To put it another way, the more people to know Rick Santorum, the less likely they were to vote for him. And there is a reason for that, Rick Santorum’s Bush Compassionate Conservative Voting Record. Rick Santorum was part of Republican Leadership because he supported the Bush 1 and 2 Big Government Big Spending Polices and he liked his EARMARKS while in office.

    SANTORUM SUPPORTED BIG GOVERNMENT LIBERAL UNION FINANCED REPUBLICAN ESTABLISHMENT?S ARLEN SPECTER AGAINST CONSTUTIONAL LIMITED GOVERNMENT PAT TOOMEY
    SANTORUM No Child Left Behind and Medicare Prescription D

  • David123

    What if Rick Perry folds or doesn’t make it? Rick Santorum would be a very viable solid conservative alternative.

    Rick Santorum is a strong social conservative AND a strong defense conservative. As for spending 1. a Pennsylvania senator should bring some pork back to Pennsylvania – That’s his job!
    2. If he went along with Bush’s desires for more spending, party loyalty probably had something to do with that.
    3. He’s running a frugal campaign, and he had a frugal upbringing; he knows how to be frugal.

  • SoFiMil

    You are definitely *not* a libertarian.

    Life – the life of the baby inside the mother
    Liberty – the rights of the baby
    Property – the rights of the father and the baby himself/herself

  • heraklios

    ..

  • seanl

    in regards to his obsession with getting Rick Perry nominated. Not especially smart on his part for the reason you stated.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Or is it little girls – I can never remember.

    ;)

  • bobguzzardi

    The Schiavo matter should have been private matter and became public grandstanding. I have no doubt that Rick Santorum thought that every life is worth living. Nevertheless, this was not a federal matter.

    Rick Santorum talked about “It Takes a Family” and abortion so that he did not have to talk about big government spending.

    There are many Penna voters like arogers. Rick Santorum cannot win the presidency because he cannot win Pennsylvania.

    His own arrogance and self-importance alienated many conservatives on a persona and visceral level.

  • justonevoice

    I am not a Santorum fan but I don’t find his “pro-life statism” much different from Gingrich, Romney, Boehner, McConnell and pretty much the rest of the GOP leadership.

    Santorum does not deserve the heaping upon he is getting the past couple of days.

  • Tavern Keeper

    I’ve disagreed with Erick and RS plenty when it comes to GOP leadership in the house lately, but suspicion of Santorum is valid. He, as all GOP contenders with possible exception of Dr.Paul (I said ‘possible’) An exponentially better option than our current administration. However, Santorum has done nothing to disprove he’s fiscally conservative. He defended earmarks, didn’t support Pat Toomey, and was a big part of the Drunken Sailor GOP congress.

  • bobguzzardi

    How does defending the sanctity of life require a earmarking a billion dollars for favored constituents? and there were many.

  • justonevoice

    The past few days finally make sense! You captured my thoughts exactly. I’m practically being converted over to Santorum by all the bashing of him.

  • fellowgeorgian

    Welcome to a new political term. Santorum has been “Cained”!!!!!

  • neum432

    and every other Republican in existance from 2000-2008…where is this holy and pure candidate we seem to be looking for?

  • sethellis

    At least we can say that we gave everyone a fair look. I’m sure after the Santorum surge it will be the Huntsman surge in NH. I think Romney has been pretty generous this cycle. I’m sure he’d be ok with us giving everyone second and third chances after that. Maybe we can even get Perry to change his name to “Not Romney”. Perhaps such an reinvention is exactly what he needs to jump start his campaign. I know it sounds ridiculous, but why not? Anything to deny Romney another delegate right?

  • pj2012

    so true… and why I can never support Santorum.

  • seanl

    support the opponent in the primary? That almost never happens. And every politician in Congress does earmarks. Your expectations seems absurd.

  • jakeofalltrades

    n/t

  • pj2012

    High Five love too!

    High Five Cat Holds Paw

  • David123

    I’d prefer that his last name be Santorum, but I’d very happily settle for Perry.

    I think either Rick is a far more consistent conservative than Romney, far more electable and moral than Gingrich, and far better at defending America than an appeasement candidate.

    I think that if Michelle Bachman doesn’t go the distance, she’ll endorse Romney. I can see either Rick endorsing the other one if he can’t go the distance himself.

    I really don’t like seeing conservatives trash either Rick – the Ricks are Good and Better, not Good and Bad. A Rick-Rick ticket would be a very strong ticket.

  • snowshooze

    1 cent for the book.

  • acat

    He’s socially conservative, but he’s *only* socially conservative enough.

    Let me put it in more simple terms.

    Not. Good. Enough.

    Mew

  • snowshooze

    nt

  • acat

    Do you believe Santorum’s had his Road To Damascus experience?

    I don’t see it.

    Fortunately for you, Iowans get to decide his fate, and I’m not one.

    Unfortunately for both of us, if Iowans believe Santorum, he won’t win, but he’ll damage several other campaigns off the rebound.

    Mew

  • Tavern Keeper

    Believe it or not Boehner has never taken an earmark. It’s not so much the action I mind – sure if the systems bad at least make it work to the advantage of your constituency – but please don’t defend the process. Rick Santorum is a good man, but a vehement defender of earmarks is not my first choice.

  • snowshooze

    We can toss Gingrich, Romney, Santorum in there for sure.
    They’ll fit just fine.
    And I would rather see Bachmann as a fail-safe.. even if she isn’t wrapped too tight.

  • acat

    Casey’s margin over Santorum was much higher than many of the others who lost in 2006. That says it was about Santorum, not just that it was Casey.

    Social conservative issues play a role in the primary, they don’t decide the general. Wishing it to be otherwise does not change the statistical reality, and Santorum is not the right candidate to win this election.

    What’s needed is someone who has evidence of all three legs of Reagan’s definition of conservatism – strong families, strong defense, strong economy. Santorum’s a golf tee.

    Mew

  • acat

    (nothing further)

  • acat

    We’ll have to enter you in teh candi-bot hall of shame.

    Mew

  • acat

    Put your paw down, fool.

    Mew

  • SoFiMil

    don’t think there should be a law that prohibits others from killing babies as that’s their opinion/right/

    I hear you on the earmarks, but that’s a separate issue.

  • justonevoice

    I was for Toomey against Specter in that primary but I never thought it very odd that Santorum supported Specter.

  • Tavern Keeper

    It was the intent of the framers that states and localities be able to exercise autonomy which did not endanger the union. The same reason I can legitimately give Governor Romney a pass on his healthcare mandate. It’s not “hiding” to evoke the 10th amendment. Better for a state to decode than the Fed.

  • David123

    Nobody’s perfect, but Rick Santorum does not have weaknesses that Obama can use against him.

    Obama’s going to campaign for re-election against Santorum because of earmarks!!!! Obama????

    Or – Obama’s going to campaign against Santorum because of Santorum’s alledgedly high government spending. Sheeesh – I’m almost splitting my sides laughing about that one.

    Rick Santorum calls Pennsylvanians neighbors; Obama calls them bitter clingers. I think Rick Santorum will carry Pennsylvania.

  • jakeofalltrades

    n/sequitur

  • seanl

    and in fact isn’t:

    “Senate Dems target Boehner’s F-35 engine earmark

    A defense contract important to Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) is among the $6.5 billion in spending cuts proposed by the White House and Senate Democrats.”

    http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/147589-senate-dems-target-boehners-f-35-engine

    I agree with you on DeMint, but he is the exception not the rule.

  • pj2012

    I thought it was cute pic… sorry if I offended you. It was meant for Erick’s article. I liked it.

  • superpatriot

    Rick Santorum and Ron Paul will not be the GOP nominee.

  • pj2012

    but I blew it, see my comment above.

  • jakeofalltrades

    neat

  • seanl

    Santorum is beating Perry in Iowa.

  • jakeofalltrades

    I’m just pissed there’s no earmark for the F-22!

  • superpatriot

    Rick Santorum will not be GOP nominee.

    How many more times should I write this????

  • pj2012

    thank you… but not executed as planned… lol

  • acat

    Not offended. Just, from one cat to another, we say “5″ here. It’s sorta like the “Like” button on that Facebook thing.

    Mew

  • windwaker24

    If Santorum is the nominee, he will have a hard time against Obama. Santorum is not a very likeable or sociable guy. He tends to be petulant, mean and whiny. He turns people off to him very fast, meaning he will not win independents. I’ll give you an example:

    When I came home today from work, my mother saw me walking down the sidewalk after putting my car away and she immediately opened the door to let me in. The first words out of her mouth were not “Hi, Kimberly.” It was “Santorum is a jack—.” My response was “What?” As I came in, I heard the TV and figured out what she had been doing all day–watching national news, something she rarely does. She was telling ME about him. It’s usually the other way around. I tell HER about candidates. My mother is a stronger social conservative than I am, and I was surprised to hear her say that, let alone be “greeted” at the door with it.

    If Ricky Perry leaves the race, I don’t know what will happen, but Santorum will not get past NH. He has no money or organization. So I don’t even see him becoming the nominee. Sadly, if Perry leaves, it will probably be Romney.

  • Tavern Keeper

    So in all the years Boehner has been on the hill and in leadership the best is to cite an appropriation that Democrats targeted? Consider that the company that received the contract was the most appropriate choice?

    Boehner has never gone on record defending earmarking. Santorum has. Let’s keep the discussion honest here.

  • greyeagle

    What programs are you referring to? The HPV vaccine never became a program. He is not hiding behind the 10th admendment. He fully believes in states rights.

  • acat

    Can’t make him (or her) think.

    Mew

  • jakeofalltrades

    If not impossible.

  • snowshooze

    You CAN make them drink.
    It just takes a bit more effort.

  • greyeagle

    There was a parental OPT out for the vaccine like all vaccines.

  • snowshooze

    Think…now you are on dry ground.

  • windwaker24

    besides Iowa. After Iowa, his social conservative message alone will not sustain him. He needs more substance. From what I’ve seen, he got nothing else to lean on–No executive experience, no plans, no money, etc. I don’t think he’s even left the state of Iowa since he announced.

  • acat

    Much easier than the other States where mandatory vaccination for diseases transmitted through socially unacceptable behaviour are the norm.

    Hepatitis B in Minnesota, for instance, which Michele didn’t bat an eye at.

    Mew

  • mong001

    I’m tired of all the bashing of our GOP candidates. I also support both Ricks, but would support the other contenders with varying degrees of enthusiasm. I don’t understand the venomous attacks on Santorum, just like I don’t understand the attacks I’ve seen on the other candidates. It’s fine to debate the merits of each candidates, but there’s no reason for the poisonous comments that seem to abound on RedState recently.

  • acat

    You can lead a horticulture…

    but I was trying to be PG.

    Mew

  • jakeofalltrades

    On the other hand, I don’t denounce hypocrisy, so carry on.

  • sunshinek67

    became President?

  • seanl

    Hard to imagine he doesn’t have loads of earmarks pre-Tea Party era when Santorum was Senator.

  • seanl

    nt

  • whitfox3

    suppor for two reasons.

    1) Not all social conservatives buy into the fiscal wing of the Republican party.

    This was true even before the bubble crashed; the proven bad behavior of Wall Street made this worse. Sure, you can make a good conservative case that TARP was folly. But that was then.. What are we proposing now that appeals to Reagan Democrats? I would suggest our big-news proposals have been ill-considered tax schemes: either giving too much preference to passive investors over producers, or raising our ridiculous deficits even higher.

    2) Not all social conservatives consider a pro-life stand sufficient.

    Somehow, we’ve elected a lot of pro-life officials while maintaining a largely pro-abortion policy. Candidates clearly willing to shake up the status quo merit preference. There’s also more to social conservatism than opposing abortion and promoting gay civil unions instead of marriages.

    I fully agree that it would be good tactics for socially conservative states and fiscally conservative states to join forces to avoid moderates. Huckabee’s 2008 victory in Iowa shows that’s not the way real people do things. If candidates aren’t willing to play to social conservatives in states where that’s the center of the party … it’s hard to argue the state voters are wrong to reject them.

  • acat

    At the risk of tossing invective, you’ve got a nasty case of mission creep.

    Mew

  • texasref

    (obviously)

  • texasref

    nt

  • David123

    1. Rick Santorum does well in Iowa – Wins, or at least does better than anyone else who can be considered a “true conservative”

    2. Santorum gets a boost from this and stays viable; Gingrich fizzles; Perry folds and endorses Santorum; Santorum picks him for VP.

    3. Romney keeps going with his 25 percent or so. Paul keeps going with his maybe 15%. 60% of Republicans don’t especially want either Romney or Paul.

    4. Having won statewide elections in Pennsylvania twice, Santorum is a safe, electable candidate. He is also a consistent true conservative, and he is not an appeaser.

    If the choice is Santorum, Romney, or Paul, who do you want?

  • snowshooze

    I never heard that one…can’t imagine what could go wrong with it.

  • gekster

    ,.,.,.,.,.

  • mcpa1776

    The 10th Amendment is great…But it does not excuse poor legislation or policies on the state level. I don’t think Conservatives should be in favor of liberal policies at the state level, just because the U.S. Constitution may allow it. I’m not saying that is what you meant, or that this is what Gov. Perry or Gov. Romney intended. I’m simply saying the 10th Amendment shouldn’t excuse bad policy at the state level.

  • texasref

    You mean like the cannula in a suction and curettage abortion death trap?

    How about we get “the (Federal) Government” [sic] out of murders and bank robberies. Should we REALLY be trying “to push our personal views on people through legislation?” Some people might deserve to die, and isn’t it really just money? People who take other people’s money and/or lives need to be moved by “education,” not through “unpopular legislation” or prison.

    Thanks for commenting, Pro-Choicer Who Lies About It. (But…but…I’m PERSONALLY opposed!) Tell that to the 4,000 unborn babies who died today.

  • gtbw

    obama only chance to win is to make everybody hate the other guy.
    its already working on the weak minded.

  • windwaker24

    He’s going back to Texas in his not chosen to be the nominee, so Santorum would have to come up with someone else. Santorum would only get my vote if he actually becomes the nominee. If Perry drops out before he reaches Illinois, I’ll write his name in or not go at all. I don’t like Santorum personally. His views on family are solid, but sometimes he just goes overboard into annoyance territory. I have to disagree with you on the appeaser part. From what I am reading and hearing about him, he was a go-along-to-get-along Republican that helped led us into the mess we are in today. I’m tired of Republicans like that.

  • windwaker24

    He’s going back to Texas if he is not chosen to be the nominee, so Santorum would have to come up with someone else. Santorum would only get my vote if he actually becomes the nominee. If Perry drops out before he reaches Illinois, I’ll write his name in or not go at all. I don’t like Santorum personally. His views on family are solid, but sometimes he just goes overboard into annoyance territory. I have to disagree with you on the appeaser part. From what I am reading and hearing about him, he was a go-along-to-get-along Republican that helped led us into the mess we are in today. I’m tired of Republicans like that.

  • snowshooze

    Who could blame him?
    My job is to wait for the President to die.
    Nah. No fun there.

  • Tavern Keeper

    Seems both pro and not so pro santorum folks are discussing the merits of facts and record. Please let’s not get concerned with PC upset feelings here. We’re all on the same team.

  • David123

    not someone who goes along with some of Bush’s non-frugal ideas.

    Rick Santorum is certainly not an appeaser. There is one candidate who is very appeasement minded. It’s NOT Santorum, Perry, Romney, Bachman, Huntsman, or Gingrich.

  • windwaker24

    nt

  • http://electionsanalysis.blog.com paint_it_red

    Don’t get me wrong, Santorum blundered in 06 on trying to defend the Iraq war on the basis of WMDs, but bottom line is the Casey name goes a long, long way in Pennsylvania. Casey beats any Republican in PA in 2006. Other than that, I don’t really disagree with anything you said.

    I’m not sure how Santorum is weak on defense though??

  • nancysabet

    Dig into CNN poll only 4% said Santorum could beat Obama, this is not impressive “Santorum who?” he has “NO”record of leadership

  • nancysabet

    only records matter nothing else.

  • http://electionsanalysis.blog.com paint_it_red

    I understand what it is you are saying. But I find the term “Pro-Life statists” to be problematic. Its disparaging and stigmatizing, and every time someone here says it, it is turning off Pro-Lifers. The “I’m a Pro-Lifer too so I get your issue” does not really help much.

    Many Pro-Lifers, myself included, have come around or continue to come around to a more fiscally responsible perspective as time goes by. But starting a conservative circular firing squad is not going to persuade anybody.

    If you want a 3 legged stool candidate, it is fair game to criticize a candidate for not being able to reach all three groups. Ron Paul is no good for national defense, Santorum’s fiscal conservatism is in question, Romney’s social conservatism is question. All fair arguments to have. But going after one of the three stools themselves, or a large portion of those electorates just because they don’t ascribe at this time to the other two stools is counter-productive. And, it seems that road seems to run one way against Pro-Lifers in particular.

    Bottom line, if you are astounded that someone like Santorum could be getting the traction he is in Iowa, its because that portion of the electorate cannot find someone acceptable among the others. That’s the fault of the candidates in the field, and perhaps those who failed to run. Its not the fault of social conservatives.

  • mcpa1776

    Here is Rick Perry’s answer to preferential treatment of industries at the state level:

    MODERATOR: Governor Perry, you — you have railed against the special treatment of Ford and Solyndra as have the other candidates here tonight. And particularly the tax code incentives for green technologies and allowances that have been made for this industry. But it’s nexus, governor you have afforded the same attention to the oil industry. Back in 2003, you signed a bill that reduced the tax paid by some natural gas companies that have helped them reap since, better than $7 billion in tax savings. So I — I guess what I’m saying is, are you guilty of the same behavior as governor, favoring an industry, that you claim this president has, favoring the green industry?

    PERRY: Today is the 220th anniversary of the signing of the Bill of Rights. And one of those, the Tenth Amendment, I like a lot. And the reason is because that’s how our founding fathers saw this country set up. Where we had these laboratories of innovation. It — it should be in the purview and the decision making process of a state. If they want to put tax policies in place that helps make them be more competitive.

    PERRY: We did it not only for the oil and gas industry, but we also did it for the alternative industry — alternative energy industry. And the wind industry. They came in droves, made Texas the number one wind energy producing state in the nation. But government shouldn’t be picking winners and losers from Washington, D.C. That’s the difference. If in the states — I’ll promise you Terry Branstad in this state, he knows how to put tax policy, regulatory policy in place to make his state be more competitive. And you need 50 states out there competing with each other and Washington out of their hair.

  • axistogrind

    I will not. I will just not vote, or maybe I would even vote for Obama. I will not vote for Rick Santorum for any reason. I will vote for Romney, Huntsman, Perry, or Bachman or even Huckabee should he feel thin enough to get back in the race, but should Sanitorium Rick be the nominee, I will know the fringe right has taken over our party. I will not vote for a man I personally consider to be an unctuous phony.

  • http://electionsanalysis.blog.com paint_it_red

    I would only add that the Pro-Life initiatives involving some measure of government spending tend to be extraordinarily cheap measures given a scale. So, if there is no give there from fiscal conservatives at all, it makes political alliance extraordinarily tenuous. Stigmatizing such Pro-Lifers as “earmarxists” or “statists” is a bit much.

  • Tavern Keeper

    There are plenty of pro-life folks who also believe spreading the wealth and social engineering are morally appropriate. We should pay special attention to this aspect – could have the same effect on use that Reagan democrats did to democrats.

  • Tavern Keeper

    Vote for Obama over Santorum? Please defend . . . With logic . . .

  • acat

    Has he worn the uniform?

    Has he served on any of the armed services related committees – beyond just attending the meetings?

    Has he spoken with veterans at VA hospitals in PA?

    Has he visited PA troops overseas?

    I don’t see how he’s got any real strength on the subject.

    As for the 2012 election, I’m not much on PA politics, but .. seems to me Casey Jr. is one that, with a strong three-legged Republican, we could knock off. (or, at least, force the Dems to spend to defend) That becomes easier with a strong POTUS candidate.

    Because Santorum lost PA – not just because of Casey, as you said – he’s not a good candidate to make that appeal.

    (I’d still be happy to see him drop out tomorrow and try to get his old job back… but the filing deadlines are getting awful close)

    Mew

  • corporateprey

    Rick is getting some of the blow back from funneling money into the religious right. I’ve heard it was quiet a lot of money. VanderPlats is on TV talking him up and he has sent word out through their network of evangelicals and into congregations.

    But at 16% he is at the theoretical top. He is everywhere on TV and looks like a cry-baby, bed wetter. Only the most single issue types would trust such a man-child to run this country. Thank God.

    He has no credibility beyond the religious right and wont win Iowa or any other state.

    On the other hand, Romney is a done deal in Iowa. He finally showed up today and is drawing big crowds. People seem relieved to just have somebody, ANYBODY, who isn’t crazy, bizarrely arrogant, a serial womanizer, unable to speak publically, can’t carry a thought, apparently on drugs, or a bed wetter.

    So you can quit speculating, Romney has won Iowa.

  • http://electionsanalysis.blog.com paint_it_red

    “Parents can opt out” is always the defense of those in the sex ed arena as well. But the issue is the same – the state asserting its primacy over parents as the one who knows best for kids. Its the wrong way to do business.

  • nancysabet

    and has no real experience except losing his seat.

  • nancysabet

    ffor supporting Santorum who?

  • seanl

    I think you misunderstood my post.

  • acat

    Both cover “opt-out” programs.

    Do you suppose that the $300+ HPV vaccination would have been popular with the lower-middle class, the poor, or the impoverished?

    Putting it in very cold terms, their children are also most likely to be exposed, and later to seek public assistance with the cancers and other illnesses caused by HPV.

    Being frigidly short, inoculating the poor would save Texas taxpayers money.

    Mew

  • corporateprey

    By the way, I don’t understand or have access to the details, but I hear Santorum is being investigated for potential illegal contributions to VanderPlatts religious /political group in exchange for support.

    Suddenly VanderPlatts is on TV saying what a great guy Santorum is. Why these simpletons waste their money is beyond me.

    Desperate times in Iowa. All the also-rans that would never have even been looked at twice feel like they have a chance this year. So they’re pulling out all the stops. Its pretty sloppy and ugly.

    Bachman’s campaign manager has jumped to RP’s campaign for the money but is denying it right and left.

    Anyway, they all look like something the cat spit up, so Romney will win rather easily.

  • acat

    The good news is it’ll die down some if Perry wins the nomination.

    Libs don’t see forced inoculations as a problem, just check in Minnesota.

    Mew

  • acat

    Which is, of course, about the caliber of comment I’ve come to expect from you.

    Mew

  • nancysabet

    of a great state with 25 million people. VP is nothing but a “cheer leader” for president.

  • http://teapartisan.wordpress.com Loren Heal

    Today on Fox (America Live with Megyn Kelly), Santorum defended earmarks.

  • sunshinek67

    *sorry*, I was just curious to know if the Republicans find Congress/Senate members electable. Lazy me, could research on my own.

  • seanl

    Boehner never had earmarks.

    You seem to have trouble with reading comprehension, so let me lay it down for you simply. Virtually every Republican politician (not just Boehner) prior to 2009 sought earmarks for their district or state. To be sure, politicians were actually rewarded by their constituents (including very conservative constituents) for their ability to bring back pork back to their districts. Now I will concede there were a handful of politicians (i.e. McCain and DeMint) that did not seek earmarks, but they were the extreme minority. To imply Santorum is a communist merely because he engaged in something that was common practice – even among very conservative politicians – is on its face absurd and frankly petty of Erick.

    Santorum is a family values politician and cares about the well being of American society. On fiscal matters he toes the Republican line. The Republican party line on fiscal issues in 2011 is notably different from the Republican party line in 2002. And as a poster on this thread noted Santorum has verbally endorsed this shift. Santorum is an honest man, and I have no reason to believe he will all of the sudden revert back to 2002. Just like I have no reason to believe that Perry would revert back to 1988 and appoint Gore as his running mate.

  • David123

    Perry – mandatory HPV vaccination – Obama, with his Obamacare is going to criticize Perry for flirting with, but never implementing, mandatory HPV vaccination???? Yeah, right

    No candidate is perfect, but I don’t see Obama being able to make an issue out of any of Perry’s relatively minor flaws.

  • tomatin

    But the only two I would never vote for are Romney and Paul.

    The sad part is they will probably go 1 and 2 in Iowa. Frankly I think the order is the only thing in question now.

    OK Perry supporters every time I want to jump on the bandwagon for him he makes another stupid gaffe. I mean c’mon that’s what I make fun of Obama for and it’s hard for me to watch Perry waiting for a mistake.

    I mean buying oil from Canada is buying oil from a foreign source. Of course I can figure out what he meant but I shouldn’t have to.

    Obviously I would still support Perry in the general happily but c’mon man you’re in the pros now.

  • tomatin

    is because he could not beat Ted Kennedy.

    Unlike you I can’t support Romney or Paul though.

  • tomatin

    He’s a walking gaffe machine but RS ignores them all.

  • tomatin

    Romney is not that guy.

  • acat

    far from every Republican Politician has ever been in the position to earmark something.

    Let’s take Willard Romney. Never a Senator, never in the House, has no earmark legacy whatsoever.

    Let’s take John Huntsman. Same pattern.

    Let’s take Rick Perry. Gee, I see a trend.

    In fact, seanl, it is *only* Republicans in the legislature who have this problem, and historically it is *legislators* who make the worst executives.

    I agree with you that Santorum is a family-values guy. I demand more than just one leg on my kitchen stools, I see no reason to demand less than three on my POTUS candidate.

    Mew

  • zooboy

    Then, Michele Bachmann is the closest thing to a real constitutional and social conservative in this race. Call your Iowa friends to vote for her. Perhaps we need an ‘Iron Lady’ like Margaret Thatcher.

  • acat

    Perry gaffed. Yes.

    Perry went on Letterman and addressed his gaffes. He was funny, he was personable, and the audience seemed to like him. Perry also went on Jon Stewart, and came off as a likeable guy who can laugh at himself.

    Those impressions will linger into the general election, and will stand in contrast to the brittle, narcissistic rock star we have now.

    What shows has Santorum been on again?

    Mew

  • sunshinek67

    Akin to the shepherd leading the sheep to drought stricken pastures. Iowa, one and done, Rick Santorum *sigh*

  • seanl

    only legislatures can do earmarks.

    Anyhow, it would be pretty naive to think that if Romney, Huntsman, Perry, etc. were a senator (and believe me Romney really really wanted to be a senator) they would not have done the exact same thing that the vast majority of Republican Senators were doing.

    And Santorum does satisfy the fiscal leg. When he engaged in earmarking it was common practice – and even perfectly acceptable of a conservative politician at the time – and now he has disavowed that practice. I have no reason to believe a “family-values guy” would lie. I think even you can concede that Santorum is an extremely honest individual, maybe to a fault.

  • sunshinek67

    The election is about jobs and the economy, both of which places Rick Perry above all other candidates on that stage. And remember, gaffes don’t lead, actions do. :)

  • Bill S

    because like all contributing editors of RS, he is pro-life. Strongly, just as you are, apparently.

    But we also realize that someone who tries to perch on a one-legged stool is likely to fall over sooner or later. The problem with Iowa is that it’s a one-legged stool state….and that’s why the “first state” status needs to move away from Iowa, and ideally switch around amongst some of the other small states.

    Santorum is getting the traction he is because his so-con “leg” is far longer than the rest and that is the priority in Iowa. As a so-con myself, I can sympathize…but the GOP just cannot have a one-dimensional voting population exerting the amount of influence that Iowa does. And frankly, any state that is so easily hoodwinked by the likes of Ron Paul probably doesn’t even deserve to HAVE a caucus/primary – or even have the right to vote, period. (but I digress…)

  • acat

    See, my thought is that while Romney would have done well in Congress, and would have earmarked a bit, that’s because he’s a born deal-maker, not a born leader.

    Santorum getting drubbed out of the Senate proves that he’s not… unfortunately, it also doesn’t prove him any more fit for the White House than I am.

    Santorum loses the fiscal leg, by the way, not on earmarks, but for voting for the Bush statist agenda, including the expansion of medicare, creation of the HSA, “No Child Left Behind”, etc. Hint – if you’re voting *with* fat Teddy Kennedy, you’re probably *not* a conservative.

    Erick used the term pro-life statist. He’s right, that’s Santorum. Sure, he’s a stand-up guy, loves his country, salutes the flag, opposes abortion. And if we were talking about Rotary Club president, that’d be great.

    For the White House, I want someone who can think a little deeper, who can see the long-term problems with Medicare and think “Maybe I shouldn’t expand this …”, or who can look at the HSA and think “Is unionizing security personnel a good idea?”.

    Santorum did not do these things. That’s why he’s not a conservative.

    Mew

  • seanl

    prior to 2009 are unfit to be the Republican nominee if they should ever choose to run for President? Is that right?

  • Bill S

    (sorry to answer for you, acat, but I believe most here would agree that there are precious few GOP senators that are fit to run for POTUS. )

  • seanl

    I understand the nature of the job and I’m not going to hold it against Santorum. If anything he knows where the bodies are buried and can get things done because of that.

  • lizzie

    without funding to support it.
    And, The Hammer really gave Pelosi her model for strong-arming Obamacare, which cost the dems their Blue Dogs, that segment of dems now begging the GOP to return to fiscal conservatism.

    I mention this because there was a special House election to fill Hastert’s seat in maybe August or September, 2008. Before anyone knew the economy was in meltdown, so it had to be before 9/15/2011.
    A Blue Dog democrat named Foster (?) won.
    The Obamabots crowed it was a precursor to Obama’s coattails to come.
    I went to Foster’s website to see what he had campaigned on to win Hastert’s solid Red seat.
    #1 was to REFORM Medicare Part D. Serious reform.
    #2 was real fiscal discipline.
    He was a very successful small businessman, and he won.

    Of course, he lost in 2010 because not only did Congress NOT reform Medicare Part D – they expanded it, and then went on to the folly of PPACA aka Obamacare.

    I mention this because a big part of the Dem wave in 2006 and 2008 was a protest against that Bush43/DeLay big government, not just about Iraq.

    and I am that disillusioned dem who was just as angry at the MedPartD and NCLB as any fiscal conservative here (I also happen to be a 10th Amendment fan although, when asked in a Social Studies Teaching Methods class in 2004 to name my favorite Amendment and explain why, I startled my prof and classmates in NYC by citing the 2nd Amendment. as just ahead of the 1st.)

    and, even tho I am on Medicare basic, I am NOT in Medicare Part D, on principle.

    Back to Santorum? he was part of that 2006 protest wave.

    I can not believe that he actually defended on video today his support for that Bridge to Nowhere.

    Mitch Daniels and Tom Coburn are both doing whatever it is they do to vent angry frustration. It IS the Jobs, DEBT and Deficit. There are no other greater priorities. More jobs, more normal tax revenue dents the annual deficit.

    I am still not sure about the F-35. FOUR TRIL over 10 years? Too fragile and complex? I really wanted the F-35 to be a debate question by now.

    Well, enough about Santorum, and protest wave elections.

    Except to write, 2012 is going to be a huge anti-incumbent pox on both parties election Jobs, DEBT and Deficit, and repeal PPACA (Obamacare).

    McCain had such a superior plan on health insurance access and reform.

  • mjs65

    @sgrubbs
    Steve Grubbs
    Internal campaign poll has Santorum in 2nd behind Romney by 2 pts. Paul 3rd. One night calling has error risks, but validates surge. #cnn
    1 hour ago via web
    Retweeted by AaronRupp and 17 others

  • snowshooze

    And try to be humble about it.
    Rub it in with salt.. sok.

  • tomatin

    Voters are not going to give him the benefit of the doubt. That’s how politics works.

    Gingrich is my #1 and Perry is #2. I really really want Perry to do well but he’s got to communicate his message better. I’m not as sold on Gingrich as I once was either. The whole VA thing was just pure incompetence and his explanations are lame.

    I know I’m going to have to pull for a flawed candidate in the general and I’m not the only one who’s not thrilled with the field. Of course if Romney or Paul win both are just too flawed for me to support.

  • tomatin

    But I would vote for him in the general.

    I don’t have much to say about Santorum except I would wish he was more conservative fiscally than socially.

  • Tbone

    You say Perry is your second choice. I say you are lying based on your other posts about Perry. If you like Perry that much, you wouldn’t say such stupid things about him. So, I say you are nothing more than a lying troll.

  • JSobieski

    Policy-wise, they are similar. However, Huckabee to his credit has actual political skills. He learns, he improves, he adapts, and he comes across well. If I didn’t know Huckabee’s low-light YouTube clips and governing record, Huckabee could have persuaded me to vote for him.

    Santorum in contrast has no salesmanship skills, and a record of spend spend spend.

    Santorum has no place in the tea party era.

  • tomatin

    As an old timer I like the historical term Dixiecrat. GWB was a classic Dixiecrat.

  • JSobieski

    She even put an asterisk by her support of Paul Ryan’s most tepid Medicare reform plan.

    Google Bachmann asterisk Ryan Medicare.

  • JSobieski

    Why propose a solution to a problem when you can pound your chest, criticize everyone else’s plan, and proclaim your purity.

    Bachmann has never proposed a budget plan scored by the CBO. She has never even hinted at the cuts necessary to avoid an increase in the debt ceiling.

    Total fraud.

  • tomatin

    I’ve said bad things about Newt too but you don’t question my support for him.

    Yes I have the intestinal fortitude to even challenge candidates, even candidates I like. I’m not some wide eyed supporter who’s infatuated with candidates and is blind to their flaws.

    What Perry didn’t imply buying oil from Canada was buying it from a domestic source? Don’t blame me for Perry’s stupid mistakes.

    The true liars are the people that ignore the flaws of the candidates they like.

    So lose the self righteous attitude it just makes you look silly.

  • tomatin

    ntnnnt

  • http://www.dirkworld.com dirkbelig

    Namely, they are nothing but enslaved incubators in service of the babies inside them and the men who knocked them up.

    Imagine you are a 15-year-old girl whose mother brought home another “uncle” who took a shine to you and thus you woke up one night with him on top of you, being violated why having Bud and Marlboro breath blown in your face, and are now pregnant.

    Congratulations! You get to have the next nine months having the result of that night of terror growing inside you because militant pro-life extremists believe that the life and rights of the baby and that drunken rapist take precedence to your life, your body, and whatever mental damage you may suffer from having to relive that rape and count down the days until you get to bring the fruit of thy womb into the world. Quit crying!!! Hey, put down that razor blade! DO YOUR DUTY AND HAVE THAT BABY!!!!

    Congrats, SoFilMil – You’ve managed to make Rick Santorum – whom I saw described the other day as being uniquely able to make mainstream opinion on values sound like radical extremism – sound like the head of NARAL compared to you. Militant pro-life extremists like you provide steaming piles of “proof” for the liberal meme that conservatives not only hate women, but are hellbent on forcing women to submit to being walking wombs for men to pump babies into. Seeing as you totally forgot (I’m being charitable) about the mother in your declaration of who qualifies for life, liberty, and property, it’s hard to refudiate the smears. Thanks, pal.

    The irony of the militant pro-life radicals is that they’d support a reincarnated hybrid of Marx, Mao, Stalin, Hilter and whatever genocidal madmen and socialist tyrants from history you’d like to add as long as they promised to save the babies at all cost, women be damned. That all these saved babies will live a miserable subsistence existence in a brutal Road Warrior dystopia because the world economy has collapsed under all the statism is no matter. They were born! MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

    Disgusting.

  • texasref

    There is a reason the constitution and the declaration prioritize life before liberty. The right to life of the baby, who deserves no blame for the rape, outweighs the right to liberty of the mother, who also deserves no blame for the rape.

    It is up to each doctor to say no when a woman says “murder my baby,” and for the state to step in and imprison the doctor when he doesn’t!

  • bk

    I’m guessing some non-trivial number of PA conservatives didn’t care to back him in 2006 after his 2004 stunt.

  • bk

    In 2008 lots of people didn’t like McCain and were in the “how much worse could Obama be anyway?” camp.

    Well we learned how much worse he can be, so I’ll vote for the R regardless of whether I can use fingers or need a clothespin or vicegrips to hold my nose while doing so.

  • bk

    1. Rick Santorum does well in Iowa ? Wins, or at least does better than anyone else who can be considered a ?true conservative?

    I’m not even sure I’d count Santorum among the “true conservatives” but I’ll ignore that for now. He could finish 4th or 5th and beat all the “true conservatives”.

    4. Having won statewide elections in Pennsylvania twice, Santorum is a safe, electable candidate. He is also a consistent true conservative, and he is not an appeaser.

    And he got absolutely hammered on his most recent try. So liberals hate him because he has an R next to his name, and some conservatives will never forgive him for backing Specter over Toomey. How safe and electable is he, even if we’re just talking PA?

  • bk

     

  • renl57

    …does it enshrine the right to life before the right to liberty?

    The Bill of Rights isn’t listed in priority from most important to least important.

    The Declaration of Independence was a ringing statement about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness–but it has no legal or constitutional force.

  • renl57

    Federalism isn’t only about conservative states having the ability to choose their own path without interference from Washington. It’s also about liberal states choosing their own path too.

    If California wants greenhouse gas controls or Vermont wants a single-payer health care system, I wouldn’t agree with those policies but I would argue that a President Perry or President Paul would have no right to force them to do otherwise. If you don’t agree with such liberal policies, you don’t have to live in California or Vermont.

  • acat

    ‘s why the most successful of recent memory have been Governors.

    Reagan, Bush 2.0, Clinton, all ran a State before running The States.

    Carter proves it’s not a foolproof approach.

    Mew

  • tadams1138

    I don’t know what stats you are referring to when you say “Social conservative issues play a role in the primary, they don?t decide the general”, but my anecdotal experience from the communities I’ve lived in in IN, OH and FL say otherwise. I know far too many pro-life democrats who vote republican for social issues for it to be coincidental by now. It would seem to me that the Christian Coalition vote would be important in the general. Casey and Stupak are pro-life democrats. You don’t think that played a role in the general?

    Also, can we consider another possibility that the reason the “statist” Santorum lost to Casey is because PA is stupid? Yeah I know we have to work with what we have and we don’t want to alienate voters, but when we lose CA, IL, NY or MA, are we really going to blame it on our candidate? At what point can we accept that the majority populations of some states are not conservative, and so offering them all three “legs” (as opposed to the golf tee) still won’t win. I’m not trying to make a case that Santorum would lose nationally, I’m just suggesting that the PA loss may need to be written off just like we do any CA, NY, IL or MA loss.

    Anecdotally (which appears to be the only kind of info I have :o ) ), I used to live in the Steel Valley around Pittsburgh (OH side). I can tell you that they are social and natl defense conservatives, but their union roots run too deep for them to be fiscally conservative. There is a lot of love of tarrifs, a lot of hate for management and owners, and an assumption that govt has to fix the steel valley.

  • trukerdad1019

    The only way we get a “PERFECT” candidate is if Jesus Christ is on the ballot! I will vote for anybody but OBAMA as it’ll be MY/OUR CIVIC DUTY to throw a Marxist,Socialist,HACK out of the WHITE HOUSE and put somebody in that is FOR AMERICA and not Apologizing for it. So if you choose to “SIT OUT” this election, don’t gripe and complain if it’s the LAST 1!!!!
    GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

  • acat

    have been anti-Perry. Tbone’s just stating what’s obvious.

    Mew

  • whitfox3

    a socially conservative state should not be a burden. If Iowa is excluded from early primaries, should New England be excluded on the basis of not being socially conservative enough?

    My feeling is that we have a platform problem, in that many Republican politicans believe social conservatism is a loser in the general election. At the extremes, this is correct, and we should fine-tune our positions to get more popular support. But to some extent this is wrong, and social conservative voters rightfully want someone who will press their issues, not hedge and do little.

    Let’s take illegal immigration. There’s vast public support for restricting amnesty, if it’s granted at all. Rick Perry, who otherwise has good social conservative vibes, didn’t just shoot himself in the foot on this, he emptied a revolver. And while I can’t prove connection, Newt sank after endorsing Perry’s ideas. It’s certainly not that more Mexigan immigration is unacceptable to social conservatives. But it has to come with checks and balances these candidates aren’t willing to add to their platforms. (And this is coming from a Perry supporter, BTW)

    I don’t think candidates need to be Huckabees to win Iowa. But they can’t be McCains. Is that such a bad thing?

    A similar point could be made about actual-Republican Paul supporters. I really doubt they’re in it because Paul is such an awesome guy, or because they’re OWS fans. We lost a lot of votes in 2006 and 2008, because people thought our nation-building efforts were a waste of life. This is not an unconservative position. I don’t expect Republican candidates to go to the isolationist extreme, and I wouldn’t want them if they did. But if there’s nothing we care to offer Buchanan Republicans, we can’t expect their primary votes.

  • acat

    You realize that’s not a compelling reason to support him now, right?

    If they’re still stupid, he doesn’t really help us in the general, and if they’ve changed their minds and are no longer stupid, they’ll support pretty much anyone other than Obama…

    Mew

  • acat

    will try to make the case. Cognitive dissonance doesn’t seem to slow them down.

    That said, of our current candidates, Perry seems to be the worst positioned for them to try to go after. If there were much dirt there, KBH would have found and used it, or sold it to the highest bidder in this election cycle. (the reason Romney’s proxies were so quick off the mark attacking Perry was because Rove recycled KBH’s oppo research)

    Mew

  • dave2131

    so nice try…Based off your idiotic last sentence I would say you’re a liberal as you can’t debate so you attack.

    I believe it should be up to the states. If you disagree with that, then you’re just another big Gov’t “conservative” (aka liberal) who is part of the problem.

    The problem with letting Washington dictate our lives is that if they say abortion is legal/illegal, what’s next? Will they attack our religious beliefs? How about dictating the number of children we have…Maybe you want them to pick your career path too? Sounds to me, like you want Government to be the answer for all your problems. Just remember that when liberals are in charge – that you asked for Government control.

    Keep it local…

  • unitedwestood

    I was on the phone with my 84 year old mother-in-law who lives in Kansas. (who voted for obama) I was telling her about my neighbor here in Texas that was complaining about taxes and the such. I pointed out to my neighbor that her car tags on that new car in her drive- way only cost her 69.00 to renew this year… in Kansas that would have cost her 800.00 or more. She complained that her property taxes were too high, I asked her how much they were.. she said 1500.00 I laughed and said ” In kansas, that would have been 4500.00

    You see, my mother-in-law was telling me not long ago of the smear job the Wichita eagle was doing on Rick Perry. She complained that he couldn’t put to words in front of the other. I was simply pointing out that, even though he might make a few word mistakes, his state is being ran much better then her’s is. I was also pointing out the the only people I hear complain about Rick Perry that live in Texas, have never lived any where else.

    So, when you DO have the ability to contrast Rick Perry and Texas with other states and governments, the line is pretty clear.

    One thing I made abundently clear … It is sad with all the progress we seem to make in other areas, we have no more evolved in our form of communication. I notice this on bloggs all the time. If you can’t spell something correctly, or finger stutter.. you can always count on a liberal to point out the error. I always figure their too stupid to ” figure out” what’s being said so it really does “have” to be spelled out for them.

    I also point out to her that I would rather have Rick Perry providing jobs and respect to the American people, and fogetting an agency, then B.Obama losing jobs and forgetting you do not bow to another country ( was it Saudi Arabia?) I would also rather have Rick Perry who wants to limit or government, then have B. Obama who gives the Queen of England all ” HIS” greatest moments on an Ipod, or the DvD’s that will not format. One thing to have someone that messes up a few words, it’s another to have someone that messes up around the world.

    I would rather have plain speakig Rick Perry in the big seat then have B.Obama who can read and not always well on a teleprompter ( Navy Corpsman), I think it was…or was it the dead that he could see in the audience… oh, I can’t remember there’s been so many of them.Well, for that matter Joe ” gaffe” Biden as number two on the launch codes.

    But then, that’s just me and my simple way of thinking.

  • dave2131

    should be a state issue. My worry about the Federal Government is that I don’t think they should be involved in any issue like this (abortion). Once they get involved with social issues, that opens the door for more control over the people.

    The last thing I want is for the Gov’t to take control of social issues. Remember 2009 & 2010. Strict Liberal control over D.C. I hope that never happens again, but if Uncle Sam thinks it can get into social issues, just remember that it won’t always be conservatives running the show, so then we’ll have to deal with the liberal agenda. That is why it needs to stay at the local level.

    I agree with your statements above. Regardless of what texasref below thinks, I hate abortion and I don’t want to see it. But we need to look at what happens when we let the Government intervene in social issues because it’s never just a one time deal.

    The point that I’m trying to make (and I don’t think I am very well) is that the Government is run by people, and not every person, or group of people think the same way we do. These are the people who make decisions (think Pelosi, Reid, Frank, etc.). They won’t always go in our favor so if we keep it local we have a better shot.

    I know that most people (especially here at RS) will disagree with me on that point of view. If D.C. ever did make it illegal for abortions I wouldn’t fight it, but I would start to worry at what is coming next.

  • chuckwagon2u

    Earmarks make Government run. Politicians support bills that have their favorite Pork Project attached to it. It is the way things get done in Washington. A Big Government Republican is no different from his Democrat cousins. Big Government is Big Government. Our next real Big Government project is being taxed to support the Big Government Globalist.

  • Tbone

    I called you a liar because you say he is your second choice. He obviously isn’t. That is why you are a liar. Now, not only are you a liar, you are obviously too dumb to discern what I wrote.

  • http://rhymeswithright.mu.nu Rhymes With Right

    Personally, I have no problem with ?earmarks?. Indeed, i believe that virtually every dollar spent by the federal government should be ?earmarked?.

    After all,it is the role of Congress to determine how to spend the nation?s money ? to appropriate it and direct how it is spent. In my eyes, this means determining exactly how it is spent ? not giving unelected, unaccountable, unremovable bureaucrats a pot of money and the authority to divvy it up as they see fit.

    Now some may argue that members of Congress cannot know enough about the projects to make informed choices about them. That is probably true ? and is evidence that the federal government should not be taking that money from the citizens of the several states and making the decisions on how to spend it. Those various spending projects ought to be determined by the states and paid for out of state dollars.

    Let?s take the famous ?bridge to nowhere?. It is a project that ought never have been approved. It was approved, though, because the state of Alaska asked for it, knowing that citizens of the lower 48 and Hawaii would bear the bulk of the costs. If Alaska officials had known that they were going to have to spend state dollars taken from Alaska taxpayers and then justify that expenditure, they would never have considered the project.

    The result? Smaller federal government ? and, ultimately, smaller state government as well. But with the ?no-earmark? position as the default, that just means that Congress is kicking the can down the road, abdicating responsibility for spending decisions, and ensuring more spending every time.

  • http://rhymeswithright.mu.nu Rhymes With Right

    You know — back up your assertion with evidence. Who says the investigation is going on? Who is conducting the investigation? What is the evidence?

    Otherwise it is no different than my saying “I don’t understand or have access to the details, but I hear corporate prey is being investigated for illegal sexual activity with underage hamsters.” — and deserves to be given equal weight.

  • jkines

    I would be very hard pressed not to vote Gary Johnson.

  • unitedwestood

    I’m pretty new here… I’ve been wondering what that meant. I decided perhaps it was a rating of the comment… it rates a 5 on a scale of 1 -10 sort of thing. Now, I get it …. Thanks!

  • unitedwestood

    Romney MIGHT win Iowa…. then he’s done. Obama really does want to run against Romney. It’s hard to run ‘against’ a mirror.

  • unitedwestood

    I will stay home! As much as I believe we need to get obama out of the white house before he rips apart our country…… I WILL NOT vote for Bachman. She’s a liar! She stood on a stage and accused Rick Perry of giving little girls a shot that could do seroius harm. ” You don’t get a do-over, you don’t get a muligan” Then she lied about saying that… but more importantly, she lied about the side effects of the drug. No, she will NOT get my vote… EVER!

    Who needs the liberal vetting of the candidates with half truths and out and out lies when one of our ( supposed) own will do it for them. I can’t stand to listen to her any more.. I mute the television when she comes on.

  • Melody Warbington (rwm52)

    Did you see the comments here or here?

    Conservative in the primary, GOP in the general.

  • circlegranch

    With such a large family and the youngest being very ill, he has to have some livelihood. Does anybody know? Has he released his tax records? We know Mitt won’t, at least for now. Perry released his. Newt says he will when he’s the nominee.

    EE’s post here on the facts about SAntorum and that he’s not the tea-totaling conservative he’s claiming to be needs exposure. 4 days left to get the truth out.

    Santorum needs to come clean about his failure to stand up against NCLB and Medicare Part D. He needs to explain his reasoning for piling on the pork and never bothering to mention that history in this campaign. (Again, a big failure on the part of the media: Hannity, Fox, et al) He’s saying now he’s proud of some of the spending he voted for; please provide us with detail, Sir. Will he be able to devote the necessary time to his young family and his youngest child that he admits has a poor prognosis? If he’s gaining ground in IA for his family values, as president can he be present enough with his own family to live up to the values he espouses? He needs to explain why he supported Arlen Specter (pro-choice) over Pat Toomey (pro-life).

  • http://twitter.com/michael_s_grant msgrant

    this candidate bashing… Politicians do government. Of course Rick Santorum presented Gov’t solutions – no doubt as *alternatives* to the bloody Democrats schemes! But now we rip each candidate as they rise for their impurities… Juvenile and self-defeating. This is also helping loon-Paul in Iowa.

  • snowshooze

    We can hash it all out here.
    Then when we go out into the big world… well… we’ve heard it all before… and we are prepared.
    We have either shot at or seen every single Candidate shot at from just about every direction. Sometime hit, sometimes not.
    But we see it and kick it around.
    Don’t take it too serious. We’re better off for it.

  • gekster

    Posting facts about candidates is bashing them.
    Pointing out flaws is bashing them.
    Would you prefer to just overlook what the Dems will point out about them
    later, or take care of it now.
    The rest of my comment shooze said above mine.

  • unitedwestood

    I will not vote for her with green eggs and ham, Sam I am. If I voted for her at any time it would make me a hyporcrit and not true to my values. She is one that I will not waver on. She is not somoene that I’m likely to change my mind about… or someone that I would have a change of heart about. I don’t like Santorum, but it’s a personal preference ( I wouild just have to hold my nose to vote for him) . Backman is princilple.

  • texashistorian

    yes, but sometimes “doing government” is undoing government. We can’t excuse creeping statism from within our own party just because they work in government. There is a lot of work to be done undoing the mess that began with Woodrow Wilson, and got doubled down on by Hoover, FDR, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Bush 41, Clinton, GW Bush, and now Obama. Quite a rogue’s gallery, yes? Harding, Coolidge, Reagan, they were all politicians, too, but spent much of their energies and work trying to fend off or roll back statism. Is it too much to ask for the same from a potential nominee in 2012?

  • Melody Warbington (rwm52)

    as well as any of the other GOP nominees.

    Conservative in the primary. GOP in the general.

  • unitedwestood

    If you feel that I need to be kicked off this site because I’m stainding on my princlples, then so beit. I am not abnoxious about my distate for her. I’m not combative with others on this site, over bachman.

    I always thought conseratives were the party of principles, I thought we were the party of honesty, loyalty and the best party to be in. I have watched her rip each and every one of the candidates to shreads with half truths and out and out lies. Yet, many still hold to the premise that she is ” conservative” I’ve started to ask myself … who exactly is she working for.

    She’s the one that changed my mind about her.. and she did it all on h er own.

  • Wubbies World

    One of the first and most vital things about integrity is its consistency.

    We go to the grocery store to buy a watermelon. We pick it up and tap on it, if it sounds hollow, we buy it. Why? It’s because we know it has integrity. We know what’s inside every time.

    Just for the sake of demonstrating my point and not trying to offend you, what you are doing is violating a fundamental rule of integrity by not being consistent in your reasoning. If you are adamant about voting principle on one candidate, but not as adamant about that same principle on another candidate, you have by default lost integrity in your reasoning. You may be considered not reliable.

    I am not accusing you of anything, but I am trying to demonstrate the inconsistency of your logic. The laws of physics are reliable and consistent. We need to be the same way at our base reasoning level if we want to maintain our integrity.

    Democrats are very good at never being held accountable on this point, but unfortunately we Conservatives really are held to a standard above what all the others are held too. That is a fact and we have to get use to it. No time like the present to start adhering to it.

    Rule #1: Support the Conservative in the Primary.

    Rule #2: Support the Republican nominee in the General.

    Rule #3: (my addition) be consistent in how you judge and treat candidates. After all, you would be furious if you supervisor at work openly made it known he treated you with a different standard than the others to your detriment at work. You know, it is the old treat others as you want to be treated kind of thing.

    However, this is only my opinion.

  • http://www.dirkworld.com dirkbelig

    While it’s nice for you to feign token sympathy for the incubator life form – can’t really call the enslaved woman you clearly despise a person, can we? – your monstrous belief that it’s just that ILF’s tough luck that she’s going to have her body conscripted to carry a baby forced into her makes you an even more extreme example of radical pro-liferism.

    I’d say you were a liberal troll if not for the sad reality that men – and you are clearly A MAN WHO HATES WOMEN – like you obviously exist and don’t care how medieval you come off in your hatred for women. You are NOT pro-life; you’re pro-MEN-and-BABIES ONLY and anyone who doesn’t like it can pound sand.

    Thanks for making it even more difficult for sane pro-life people to change hearts. All the pro-death Left has to do to “prove” their smear that conservatives are misogynist animals who hate women and want to imprison doctors is point to yours and SoFilMil’s posts and they win.

    I pray that you don’t have any women in your life that must suffer under your cruel and inhuman beliefs.

  • unitedwestood

    said that the drug retarded people, then I will have to back down gracefully. I never heard him say that. I heard him say it was against parents rights, but I must have missed him saying that it would injure the child.

  • texasref

    to the U.S. Constitution, which says, “”No person shall…be deprived of life…without due process of law.” That’s a FEDERAL guarantee in the original Bill of Rights.

    If by “attack” you mean my correct identification of you as a pro-choicer who lies about it, then yes, I’m a mean, nasty, attacker. If I’m wrong, then tell me what differentiates you from the typical pro-choice politician who is “personally opposed” but fails to even try to do anything in their power to reduce the slaughter? At least the politicians are honest (!) about self-identifying as pro-choice, unlike yourself.

    Of all the things you argue to “keep local,” you pick one of the rare examples that should not be kept local, and you do it on the matter to which the Constitution placed the highest importance: life.

    By the way, it gives you more credibility when you accuse someone else of attacking (correctly, or in your case, incorrectly) when you don’t include an attack of your own in the same sentence.

  • texasref

    Anyone on this website who is pro-life care to chime in? Or are we all cool with being called women-haters?

  • jacobite

    Reagan did almost nothing for social conservatives except make a few speeches. Reagan did not cut government spending. Reagan did increase DoD’s budget, along with every other agencys’. Reagan high-tailed it out of Lebanon, instead of flattening much of it after the Marine barracks bombing. He fired the striking air-traffic controllers, but did not (as Coolidge did) make sure that they were not hired by any other government agency (in fact, a lot of them ended up working for the TVA), much less jailed for breaking the law.
    He also failed to declare war on Iran, which had taken over the American embassy (one of the most serious acts of war possible). He did not prosecute Fonda, Kerry, and other traitors. And dare I mention the Immigration amnesty he signed? Lowering tax rates is not the most important agenda for Rightists (the only people who propose to dismantle the Welfare State), and it is far less important than, for example, the systematic elimination of all government funding of Leftist lobbying organizations now in place.

  • texasref

    “No person shall…be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.”

  • JSobieski

    You, me, and a doctor performing an abortion are not subject to the 5th Amendment.

    For example, the owners of Redstate have no obligation to let anyone state their opinions here. The First Amendment does not bind Redstate in any way.

    Nor does the 5th Amendment bind a doctor.

  • texasref

    I wasn’t aware that private parties could deprive me of my life, liberty, and property at will. Thanks for the heads-up.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Get over it.

  • JSobieski

    Laws prevent private parties from trampling on your rights.

    The Bill of Rights prevent government from trampling on you rights.

    Do you want Separation of Church and State in private entitites?

  • conservative_dan

    but I still have a bitter taste in my mouth from when he supported Arlen Specter over Pat Toomey in the Republican primary in 2004. It just showed that Rick was a Washington insider and was willing to compromise on conservative principles. Why wouldn’t he do that again sometime??

  • JSobieski

    or make snide comments and never uncover when you are mistaken.

    Your choice.

    You have no First Amendment right to post on Redstate.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    a person who hates life and hates innocent life.

  • conservative_dan

    had Santorum supported Toomey, and he won in 2004, we would not have Obamacare!!

  • ctredstater

    Governors have to be decision makers and executives.

    Go, Governor Perry, Go!

  • Wubbies World

    I am a pro lifer, and I do not subscribe to abortions except to save the life of the mother. I do think that your description of those who believe as I do to be a bit over the top and unnecessary. My wife has the same view, Does she, a woman, also hate women?

    I think one thing to take into consideration is the psychological implications an abortion can have on a woman. My sister in law (my wife’s sister) happens to fall into the category of abortion you are raging against. She has had to undergo years of physiological counseling, not for the act that impregnated her, though there was a lot for that, but rather because of the guilt she has felt for killing her child.

    Something tells me my wife and my sister in law would be angry and deeply offended by your over the top characterization of how this issue has affected them and our family.

  • SoFiMil

    And you’d only object if the Federal Government made it illegal?

    While I understand the strategic tactic by some in the pro-life community to make abortion and the killing of the unborn a state issue (not saying I agree/disagree with this approach), it’s *not* a moral arugment.

    Pick your state. Slavery is wrong. Pick your state. Abortion is wrong. Following your logic, how can you think it’s okay for a state to allow someone to kill the unborn or to legalize slavery? Both are abominations. You, though, don’t want to get involved because either your poor feelings will get hurt or your are so d—— afraid of hurting someone else’s feelings.

  • SoFiMil

    .

  • texasref

    you bring up 1st amendment issues. I’m talking about the 5th amendment. If you believe private parties have the right to deprive me of my life, liberty, and property, then you and I are just going to agree to disagree.

  • avagreen

    ….have no idea what dirkbelig is screaming about. And, I’m certainly not a “woman hater”……far from it. I would like women to be spared the agony of which you’ve just Wubbies World is talking about. It absolutely wrecks a woman…..far more than carrying the baby to term that can then be….adopted. A “win” all the way around for everyone: the baby, the couple wanting and not being able to find babies (too many abortions) to adopt.

    ……I’ll give you odds that dirkbelig is male.

  • avagreen

    dirkbelig Friday, December 30th at 4:06AM EST (link)

    Namely, they[women] are nothing but enslaved incubators in service of the babies inside them….

    why should an innocent baby pay the price of what adults do?

    As a counselor, I’ve seen the damage these abortions do to women….it may take years, but it eventually takes a toll in broken lives, addiction, etc. to deal with the pain of having killed their child (s).

  • Menlo

    In terms of federal control, it’s insignificant compared to the “social” issues with which federal government has intervened and will continue to intervene.

    No one is talking about an operational or procedural shift or even the reach of any other federal law. The precedent was set by Congress a VERY long time ago, and it’s never going back.

    You may oppose a federal abortion policy, but that’s a poor justification.

  • acat

    Once sperm meets egg, it’s a life.

    I see no reason why the new life is any less important, and should have any fewer rights than the mother-to-be…. even if that inconveniences the mother-to-be for a year. (9 months to gestate, 3 to get back into shape)

    Mew

  • jakeofalltrades

    Though I doubt SCOTUS would see Roe and Casey as violating the 14th amendment.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Since the 14th doesn’t apply federally.

  • JSobieski

    Is this omission a Constitutional violation?

    There is a difference between affirmative govrnment action and passive government inaction.

    Not prohibiting abortions is a passive government inaction—even if something affirmative triggered a change in the law.

  • JSobieski

    nt

  • acat

    …simply because there was no Federal statute under which to charge him.

    Mew

  • Melody Warbington (rwm52)

    .
    .
    .

  • JSobieski

    The Constitutional rights in the Bill of Rights do not apply to private actors. That is simply the truth.

    What protects your life and your property against private actors are laws.

    Laws are different than constitutional rights.

    Liberals are the people who try to constitutionalize every injustice.

    The Bill of Rights are very specific and they don’t apply to private actors.

    Find one link by a conservative Justice/thinker who agrees with you, and I will eat my keyoard piece by piece.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Would definitely violate amendment 5 or 14, even if it was through a writ of mandamus.

  • JSobieski

    States have different laws on protecting life. Some life ending activites are crimes in some states but not in others.

    You are arguing substantive due process under the 14th Amendment, and that is not something a conservative would support.

  • jakeofalltrades

    From my view, fetuses are the most suspect class there is.

  • JSobieski

    there is no Constitutional prohibition on doing so.

    Keep race out of the hypo, since we know race raises other issues.

  • jakeofalltrades

    n//t

  • jakeofalltrades

    You run afoul of equal protection.

  • JSobieski

    If you want to argue the way things SHOULD be, we agree that we should protect the unborn using the instruments of self-government—elected representatives pass laws.

    Conservatives don’t however twist the Constitution to make stuff up that is contrary to self government.

    Substantive due process is the judicial branch’s version of Obamacare—it is an abomination that ends the Republic. Heed Scalia’s words on the topic if not mine.

  • JSobieski

    Use non-protected class analogies, and your argument falls apart

  • jakeofalltrades

    Pre-natal human beings are allowed to be killed but not post-natal ones. Pre-natal human beings are denied the equal protection of state law.

  • JSobieski

    Due process has never been successfully asserted to require that a law be passed or to prohibit the repeal of a law.

  • acat

    are protected via their non-White ethnicity….

    I’d argue that extreme reverse ageism applies, but .. that argument hasn’t been tried in court yet.

    Mew

  • jakeofalltrades

    What’s the hang-up?

  • JSobieski

    Your argument is implicitly based on a protected class status that doesn’t exist.

    Without a protected class, equal protection is hollow.

    In any case, equal protection is DIFFERENT than due process—and the original point was due process.

    The equal protection argument will work before the Due Process argument works.

    Due Process in the context of this discussion is a loser argument.

  • jakeofalltrades

    It’s because SCOTUS refused to determine that fetuses are people, instead rambling about the “sweet mystery of life”.

  • JSobieski

    If two clauses result in the exact same analysis, it begs the question of why both clauses are in the Constitution. Why add redundant clauses? This is basic textual interpretation 101.

    Due Process asks the narrow question—did the state actor follow the laws as written

    Equal Protection asks a broader question that encompasses protected classes and different levels of scrutiny.

    Your use of the Due Process Clause in Article V is contrary to the case law. That ultimately is the argument on which I rely.

  • jakeofalltrades

    The only reason I veered off into amendment 5 and the article is because the 14th doesn’t apply to the federal government, and I was concerned about showing a writ of mandamus from SCOTUS being the state action that legalized abortion.

  • JSobieski

    i don’t know how many ways I can say it.

    This is a silly discussion.

    The prolife movement is hoping to be permitted to enact legislation to protect the unborn.

    You are suggesting that the Due Process clause of the Contitution would actually prohibit the repeal of such legislation.

    Given that the current legal regime doesn’t even PERMIT such laws, the argument that such laws are REQUIRED seems extremely academic.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Which is the best I can do. And yes, it is hollow since I have no suspect class (though I could make a reasonable argument that feti should be a suspect class).

  • JSobieski

    20 comments later—I declare victory and go back to work.

    The 5th Amendment and the rest of the Bill of Rights apply to government, not private parties
    JSobieski (Diary) Friday, December 30th at 3:23PM EST (link)

    You, me, and a doctor performing an abortion are not subject to the 5th Amendment.

    For example, the owners of Redstate have no obligation to let anyone state their opinions here. The First Amendment does not bind Redstate in any way.

    Nor does the 5th Amendment bind a doctor.

  • lineholder

    (Begin rant)

    Let’s not acknowledge the simple truth that woman are as capable of feeling emotions associated with sexual need and sexual desire as men are. And let’s not acknowledge the reality that in most cases, women do have a choice and they could choose to say “NO!”. Let’s not own up to the fact that more often than not they would better of in the long run, mentally, emotionally and physically, if they did. We won’t whisper a word about a woman’s accountability and responsibility for her actions. We won’t say or do anything to encourage young women to develop traits like discernment or prudence of self-control. Heaven forbid that we should consider this!!

    No, we just need to roll over, play dead, and go along with the narrative of the left that every woman who finds herself faced with an unexpected pregnancy is a victim of society. And then it will be all society’s fault, and responsibility can be projected onto society, and society will have to make things right for the woman by condoning murder of an unborn child, and providing her with easy access to doctor’s who perform abortions, and even with coming up medicines like the morning after pill that give her an easy way out.

    Yes, the left’s way has been so much better for our society as a whole, hasn’t it?

    (End of rant)

  • jakeofalltrades

    If fetuses are people, then they have the right to equal protection of state law. State law allows them to be killed but not other people.

    Two major factors for arguing for a new protected class are:
    1. History of Discrimination
    2. Political Powerlessness

    I’d argue the tens of millions of them legally killed over the last half a century proves the first factor, and the second factor is self-evident.

  • jakeofalltrades

    I never made the claim that private action violates the Constitution.

  • texasref

    I agree to disagree.

  • JSobieski

    There are aspects fo the law that grey and aspects of the law that are black and white.

    It is black and white that the Due Process Clause of the 5th Amendment pertains only to actions by governments, and not private parties.

    You are wrong on this. I encourage you to look for a link and share it with RS.

  • jakeofalltrades

    SCOTUS skirts the issue by, as subtly as possible, saying that fetuses aren’t people.

    Only people have rights.

  • JSobieski

    Look at what caused this discussion in the first place—a discussion that you interjected yourself into.

    I responded to the proposition that Due Process under the 5th Amendment should stop a doctor from performing an abortion.

  • jakeofalltrades

    There is nothing in the bill of rights that restricts private action. Everyone knows this. There has never been serious disagreement about that in the legal world.

  • jakeofalltrades

    I was arguing for Roe and Casey to be unconstitutional. I apologize for confusion, frustration, the false accusation, and wasting your time.

    My bad.

  • JSobieski

    May 2012 prove more fruitful!

    Happy New Year!

  • jakeofalltrades

    and not being very organized about it.

  • jakeofalltrades

    And please accept my apologies for the disorganized and tangential arguments I threw at you (given your focus on procedural DP). That would have driven me crazy if the shoes were reversed.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    waiting to have a couple of words with you.

    I seriously doubt you will enjoy the confrontation.

  • RJLigier

    You realize that the battle has finally come down to the core of disagreement between the liberal and conservative wing of the Republican Party. This is a battle between heterosexuals and homosexuals/bisexuals. Rick, like Romney, has his MBA/JD, and are equally capable of leading the nation, but Romney’s record squarely places him in the social liberal camp from the “Father of Homosexual Marriage” to Romneycare in Massachusetts. Social liberals aka secular humanists have always used the argument that the candidates of religious faith are predisposed to not being fiscally conservative due to religious beliefs. Well, that dog doesn’t hunt. Secondly, regarding Tommey, Santorum made a gentleman’s agreement with Arlen Spectre to place Roberts/Alito on the US Supreme Court in exchange for his support for Spectre’s run in Pennsylvania. I can live considering the Senate is/was not in Republican control.

  • http://www.timothy-bladel.com/ center77

    because outside the state of Iowa he is not well liked, and the country will vote for a governor over a has been former congressman. This country has not voted a congressman into the white house in a long time, over a hundred years. This whole Santorum stuff is nothing but a ruse to help Romney, and there is nothing fiscal conservative about the man, he was a king of earmarks. So many complain about this with Paul, and the same goes for Santorum. I cannot see any way Santorum wins the nomination, but he may end up with a show on Fox news if he wins Iowa, and that is what its been about the whole time, just getting his name back into the limelight.

  • tomatin

    You people are so pathetic with your hero worship.

    These guys are all polls and have good and bad points.

    Just because I behave like a grown up and don’t worship any candidate does not mean I can’t support them. Grownups know that’s not mutually exclusive.

  • carolynr

    I agree technically with Dave…it is not in the Constitution, per se. However, if you break it down to the child…yes..I see where you are.
    I am pro-life. I believe in abortion (to be controlled by the vote of the states) if in the case of rape, incest or the life of the mother.

    Too lazy to slap a patch on your butt…you get pregnant..you go to a state where the taxpayers think it is fair that they pay for your sloth! That would be…say Taxachusettes. Oh well, I digress.

    Here’s the thing. Abortion is not going to be the main issue in this economy. There are too many ways out there for people to avoid pregnancy and I don’t think that abortion should be an issue with the economy being so bad. Birth control is available for men and women. I don’t like the funding of Planned Parenthood for abortions without consent of the parents…AND it should be in a state that thinks it is just fine and dandy. I know people that have had abortions…and that one comes back to bite you…once you have morality.

    This is a mega turn off for women. Not for me…but for women…they want to have the pro choice agenda. We need the female vote…we need the Indie vote and we need the Latino vote to win this election…which btw, will be rigged by Obama. So…we have to win big. Abortion is not a Federal Government issue…it should be left to the people closest to their government…the states.

  • carolynr

    Here is the difference and Perry, IMHO, did not shoot himself in the foot. The Legislature, along with Perry, agreed that they would rather have payers rathers than takers. They probably also saw the coming trend of the Marxist group LaRaza (sp) that is in the process of suing every state for “in-state” tuition. That is what Perry was for…in-state tuition with conditions…applying for citizenship being one. His stance on amnesty…the current laws on the books. He is strong on securing the border and I believe would get it done…unlike Bush. He believes that they should have identification, thus allowing us to know how long they are here for, along with catching those companies that are hiring “under the table” to avoid paying FICA taxes….which hurts SS.
    He does not believe in driver’s licenses or sanctuary cities. So..if you overstay your visa…you go back…either through employment records or police checks.

    Gingrich…on the other hand does believe that we must have a pathway to citizenship for those here for a long period of time, thus not only have a division among Latinos as to who is “entitled”…but Gingrich goes one further and thinks that communities should vote on these people. The Hatfields and McCoys all over again.

    THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.

  • carolynr

    nt

  • carolynr

    Where was Rick Santorum concerning the proclamation of his faith? I know he believes in God…I do to. But…if VanderPlatt wants proof of one’s faith…what happened with Perry in Houston?

  • carolynr

    First what he said…ready. It is in the Constitution that the Congress Spends Money. I brought the money to my district (this is paraphrased…can’t find exact quote). So…you see…he is a spender and he uses the Constitution to defend his argument. Oh well, everyone does it and we, the taxpayers get stuck with the bill.

    This is what bothers me more than anything about this guy. He uses the blue collar worker to get his point across. His father came to this county…he was an immigrant…he went to work in a manufacturing plant…we need to bring manufacturing back to the USA.

    OK…do you remember studying the Industrial Revolution and the stages that we were to go through in the USA. I do. I believe farming, manufacturing, service and then technology. Somebody correct me if I am wrong here. Anyway…here we are 2012 upon us, China paying its workers $2-3 a day to manufacture and we are paying our union workers upwards of $75.00 per hour MAKING THAT A $2.00 TO $600.00 Ratio. Santorum…do you know how to do math. Of course you do…you’re a spender. So…how does one overcome this. Well, we could put a tariff on China…but they would do the same to us…if they could even afford our products..so let’s forget that option. That leaves us with this….in order to make the USA competitive in manufacturing we have to give tax breaks (which means higher taxes to taxpayers) to big companies to subsidize their union pensions and wages. That is MR. SANTORUM IN A NUTSHELL.

  • Melody Warbington (rwm52)

    even if your nominee doesn’t win. As I said, I don’t like Romney. It would go against my conservative nature to vote for him, but he and the other nominees beat the liberal alternative every single time. There are surely some things any one of the candidates might do as POTUS that I wouldn’t like, but I don’t think any of them, including Bachmann, would run this country off the cliff into socialism like Obama. And I’m surely not willing to risk losing and hand Obama another 4 years.

    Perhaps Wubbies World can change your mind here.

  • Finrod

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_G._Harding

  • sunshinek67

    Senate/Congress leadership to Presidency. I think it was in the last election cycle with Senator McCain. I have often wondered why that is. Thank you for the history!

  • snowshooze

    The official job of the VP is to survive the President and take over.
    That isn’t exactly chump change.

  • acat

    that their view is incorrect and, given time, will change.

    That’s the great thing about Stare Decisis .. it can be overturned by a later court.

    Mew

  • timkellogg

    There is NO constitutional authority for the FEDERAL government to determine how much and which ways states regulate abortions any more than there is for the federal government to determine how states handle most criminal and civil laws. Roe v Wade was wrong, because the Supreme Court should have said “none of our business”. I believe the STATES should outlaw abortion in most, if not all, cases, but the feds need to stay the hell out. EVERY politician at the federal level who gets caught-up in any aspect of the abortion discussion besides appointing judges that will support the Constitution and take the federal government out of the discussion is acting in an extra-constitutional manner.

  • timkellogg

    we’ve lost. I can not and will not accept the mess we’re in based-on precedent. Precedent is a fancy word for “we let ‘em get away with it, so now we have to forever”. You can’t overturn Roe v Wade with Federal law. It has to come from the states, combined with better Federal judges in-place to acknowledge the Federal government’s lack of authority on the issue.

  • timkellogg

    these things are clearly not the role of the Federal government, even when we REALLY, REALLY care about them.

  • timkellogg

    Alright, now, I still have my “Honkies for Herman” sticker on my pickup, but I don’t think this is comparable to the random piling-on against Cain. I understand perfectly-well some of the reasons people had to not want to support him. I always just replied, if only in my mind, that I understand your concern, whether or not I agree with the premise, but I feel experience with government and top-of-the-head knowledge of various specifics is less important at this point than willingness to do things that politicians in-general will not dare to do. This is what I want.

    Santorum has been worthy of, and receiving, ridicule with few defenders that I can recall, from the get-go. The guy just has a crummy attitude, if nothing else, very angry and petulant, and seems obsessive about gays to the point I wonder if he’s in the closet. The abortion issue is one that politicians are stupid to bring-up. You’re not going to convince anybody. It’s legitimate to vote pro-life. Making a big deal about it in the primaries while ignoring everything else gets you a dictator-minded politician, if that’s how you’re voting. The ones that aggressively court the morals-voters are always the most cynical self-motivated parasites, who love to control the people they attempt to bleed dry. It’s only logical, in politician-thought. Santorum has a poor record, plain to see.

    Right now, I’m hoping Perry will come back into it soon, and I’m hoping he’ll shut the hell up about social stuff and focus on how he wants to cut and eliminate and shrink and confine because I really like him when he talks about that stuff and I cringe when he talks about gays or abortion when he can kick butt on every important issue for getting the government out of the way and letting us bring our economy back. When we’re doing more than desperately scraping-by we can discuss all that other stuff. Why inflame passionate argument amongst people who will not be swayed in the slightest?

  • timkellogg

    little girls are, of course.

  • Dave_A

    And to date, abortion is not.

    The Feds should, however, without an amendment, be able to ban the provision/reciept of abortion in interstate/foreign commerce, and the use of federal funds to pay for the practice…. If that is the view of those we vote in…

    That said, the ‘Roe is bad law, leave it to the states’ position offers an ‘out’ to those who don’t want to take a stand on the issue, but don’t approve of the status quo.

    Especially since Roe and Griswald are both bad law.

  • unitedwestood

    I read a few posts on this very list yesterday that set my tone. Have a great day!!!!

  • romansdaughter

    I don’t really think you need to worry with Bachmann, she is not going anywhere. I feel the same way about Bachmann but of course if it was her against Obama I would pick her but she is not going to be the one. She seems to be going down the tubes in Iowa. I don’t like any candidate who openly lies to smear another candidate..so that doesn’t just include Bachmann…Romney has also done this and Cain. But in comparison to Liar-in-chief, Obama they would all be better. By the way how was your Christmas?

  • SoFiMil

    And that states had the perfect legal right (differentiated from ethical/moral right) to allow slavery?

    Further, would that make the Civil War an unjust war and unjust intervention by the Northern states, as (according to your reasoning I presume) technically speaking the Southern states were within their legal rights to have laws allowing slavery?

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    could have been used to justify federal legislation outlawing slavery in the states and could be used to outlaw abortion. More later if desired.

  • Menlo

    Law enforcement should have laughed at and ignored what the judiciary said 40 years ago. That the court was taken seriously and continues to be taken seriously and respected shows the REAL problem, not so much the judges.

    In practice, no such thing is ever going to happen, at the federal or at the state level in any state or in any branch of government. You can accept it or not, but that’s the way it is and always will be.

  • http://electionsanalysis.blog.com paint_it_red

    In theory, that is, if you have the support of the legislature and the governor’s office on your legislation.

  • http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/ msimon

    Santorum is a Drug War Statist. In fact I’ll go further. Anyone who supports the Drug War is a statist per se. Wait. That is nearly the whole current Republican field. Bummer.

    So I get the choice between a left wing statists and a right wing one. Whoop. eeeee.

    And you know I don’t even like Ron Paul. But Palin is out and Johnson has been sidelined.

  • http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/ msimon

    You wouldn’t want them sneaking off and doing something evil would you?

  • axistogrind

    I don’t like the man, I don’t trust him, I think he is slimy, he is not very strong on states rights, as he applies it unevenly. He is a big spending big government “conservative”, and as a rule I don’t find their brand of conservatism much different than democrats. They are happy to spend a lot of government money, and increase the reach of government on the individual. I doubt he is very willing to take on government unions either. I am not willing to hand over more states rights so he can push his family values on us all. He is also a former legislator, not an executive, and I am only interested in voting for executives, and will support no legislator until there are no governors left in the race. I can at least engage in honest opposition to Obama for the next four years, but I am not interested in elevating someone I don’t respect as presidential to possibly be there until 2020. Jkines is right, I would have Gary Johnson to vote for, so Obama might not be the only choice, but the effect would be the same.

  • tercel

    Perry may not be the slickest speaker but remember he has only been doing this since August. Romney has been repeating his stump speeches and sound bites for at least 5 YEARS. This is Paul’s 3rd run for President.

    45% of all jobs in the entire US in the last 2 years have been created in Texas due to Perry’s policies of low taxes, low regulation and tort reform. Texas has gained 4 congressional districts because businesses and jobs are flocking to Texas.

    Perry is consistently the social conservative in this race. Under his leadership, Planned Parenthood has been de-funded. Women seeking abortions now must have a sonogram first before they destroy a life and he pushed and passed parental consent.

    He is the only candidate that has volunteered for the military and served during Vietnam. No draft, No deferment. He attained the rank of Captain in the US Air Force. He has been the leader of the Texas National guard which has served in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as serving on the Texas border with Mexico fighting the drug cartels and the influx of enemies through our southern border.

    Perry is neither Washington nor Wall Street.

    He is the obvious choice to get this country back on track to being that shining city on a hill.

  • tadams1138

    I don’t plan on voting as a Floridian for someone New Hampshire loves. So no, I don’t think PA’s vote history should have anything to do with compelling anyone to vote for or against him. I think the sooner people start voting for the candidate that matches their values and stop voting for “the guy that’ll win”, the better off the country will be.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    and vote for the guy who’s right on the issues the better off the country will be.

    We’ve reached a point where, for all intents and purposes, values don’t matter. This election is not about reigning in Planned Parenthood, it’s not about outlawing abortion. It’s not about defending marriage as one man/one woman. It’s not about stopping homosexuals from serving openly in the military. It’s about the survival of the nation. Not even survival of a nation that the founders would recognize, it’s about survival period.

    Now let me clarify a couple of things. I’m not saying any of the “values” issues aren’t important because they are – although the horse is out of the barn on at least one of them. I’m saying we don’t have the luxury of comparing the relative “values” of Republican candidates, we need to be looking at the values of the Democrat’s candidate(s) in relation to anybody in our field (Ron Paul excepted – I don’t count people who are not Republicans). It should be no contest, and if it is then you’ve got big problems.

    Newt’s personal life is no shining star, heck it looks a whole lot more like King David than anybody else I can think of (and you can throw in a David & Goliath reference here for taking back the Congress and balancing the budget). Obama appears to be a much better example of husband and family man than Newt. If Obama reflects your “values” better than Newt, you need to reevaluate your values and your life principles and your priorities.

    Santorum is a pro-life statist, his whole history in elective office reflects that. He’s a big government guy. So is Romney. They both talk a good conservative game (and either would be better than Obama – but probably not by much) but they’ve no history of even bothering to WORK with conservatives let alone pursue a conservative small (note: not “smaller”) government agenda. Both them should, on their merits be unacceptable to anybody who has a clue what “conservative” stands for.

    Bachmann has a conservative legislative record – certainly more conservative than Santorum – but she’s got zero executive experience (like Santorum) and doesn’t seem to be able to prioritize issues – Gardisil. She’s also got no traction and no organization.

    That leaves us with Newt and Perry. Newt’s executive experience is at least arguable, he was Speaker of the House. His legislative experience is unmatched for both rousing success and bitter failure, but at least he’s shown he can lead a disparate group like the House Republicans to victory and there’s nobody better at coming up with new ideas, and ideas that are generally conservative in nature.

    And finally we come to Perry. Governor of TX for ten years, before that LtGov and Ag Commissioner (in TX, a big job). All of those are executive positions and require working with the legislature. He’s got one of the most solidly conservative records in the US (see Daniels and TPaw for two more) and is very consistent. Fantastic record on jobs, understands the impact of federal regulations on jobs and energy production better than anybody alive.

    There’s a snapshot for you. Oh, and Perry’s “values” scorecard is at least as solid as Santorum’s. If you happen to be looking at Santorum, with any luck at all he’ll be looking for a job in the private sector shortly after he gets 14 votes in New Hampshire. I wouldn’t expect either he or Bachmann (and most likely Huntsman, who is just Romney light) will be in the field very much longer. No money or organization. Huntsman has money (his own) and might do OK in NH, but I don’t expect he’ll be around after he finds out NC won’t be friendly ground.

  • unitedwestood

    n/t

  • tadams1138

    with everything you wrote just about except the “statist” label.

    My “values” = Your “issues”

    I don’t drag people’s personal lives into it until I need to break a tie.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    federal government and has for a long time. See this article at The Cato Institute.

    Bottom line:

    From his 2006 campaign…

    He said he wanted Pennsylvanians to think of him as a political heir to Alfonse M. D?Amato of New York, who was known as Senator Pothole for being acutely attuned to constituent needs. [NYT]

    So . . . the third-ranking Republican leader in the Senate wanted to be known as a porker, an earmarker, and Senator Pothole.

    [...]

    At least Santorum is right about one thing: sometimes the left and the right meet in the center. In this case the big-spending, intrusive, mommy-AND-daddy-state center. But he?s wrong that we?ve never had a firmly individualist society where people are ?left alone, able to do whatever they want to do.?

    It?s called America.

    Read the whole thing. Bottom line, Santorum is the less liberal, less Marxist version of Obama. Different issues, same solution.

  • tadams1138

    Has he worn the uniform? Has he served on any of the armed services related committees? Has he spoken with veterans at VA hospitals in PA? Has he visited PA troops overseas?

    That is all gobbledygook. You might as well ask him if he any friends currently serving. It makes no difference. Just because someone hasn’t served in the military does not make them unable to lead the military as its civilian commander. Someone who is strong on national defense is someone who favors a strong national defense and policies that would lead to a strong national defense. Period.

    We have got to get away from idolizing the military and its social services. We are seriously running the risk of losing them to the welfare state. Members of the military need to be told that they are fighting for the rights of all and that they will be treated equal to any other citizen as far as govt goes. I know too many members of my infantry company who are now govt employees (non-military) and more who whine about the horrible service of the VA. In past years they may have voted for someone who wanted a strong national defense, but now it sounds like they will vote for whoever promises more jobs and benefits.

    Just my gut reaction to your “has he visited the VA” remark.

  • acat

    I may have mentioned that members of my family have served or are serving in every branch except the Coast Guard,

    One uncle spent over a decade working with homeless vets. He’d go to mustering out events, and speak to the newly minted vets, and one of the things he’d say is “Everything the VA man tells you is a lie.”

    His own journey through the VA system to first identify and then treat a chronic service-related condition took years, and a toll on his family and his post-service career. He’s since retired, but still is the guy the local sheriff calls to go talk to homeless vets living under the bridges.

    My point, regarding Santorum, is that he’s never – not once – in the whole time he was busily supporting the Bush wars spent any time looking at the aftermath, or demanding that America do a better job of taking care of those who have served.

    I am not worshiping anything, which is the root of “idolization”, by the way – I am pointing out that someone who has served is more likely to be aware of the limitations, shortcomings, and downright failures in the system.

    Santorum doesn’t even have that going for him.

    Mew

  • gekster

    ///

  • acat

    They’ll still order your life for you just as effectively whether they are for or against abortion, gay marriage, creation-science, or whatever other “values” points.

    Santorum heard Reagan’s quote about “I’m from the government and I’m here to help you” and thought it was a good idea.

    Mew

  • tadams1138

    Or is this trolling and I should ignore it?

  • tadams1138

    I’ve just run into a few in the past who have tried to play the “he’s in the military” card (see the vets trotted out for OWS) when it’s wholey innapropriate and wrong. I’ve also been discouraged at the number Marines from my company who seem dependant on the VA or other govt offices.

    I doubt we disagree on much (or we probably wouldn’t be on this site), but your comment reminded me of things I’ve grown tired of.

    God bless your uncle.

  • tadams1138

    I also clarified in a comment to mbecker above that when I say values I mean the same as when you say issues. So yes, it matters what issues the overlords at DC agree with us on, but clearly that?s not what you were asking.

  • Spartan4Life

    In a sweater vest, no less! Are you kidding me? This is the best we can do?

    And the Iowa and Iowa State gear just remind us that you are a kiss ass.

  • acat

    You should ignore it.

    Mew