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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

The Evangelical Vote

The evangelical movement might have just sown the first seeds of division for 2016 — seeds that, like in 2008 and 2012, prevented evangelicals from getting one of their own the nomination.

I had the privilege to attend the meeting of evangelicals in Texas this weekend. Due to pressing matters before me Saturday I could not make the Saturday portion, but was there Friday hearing the advocacy for the candidates, the run down, etc. I did not vote.

As with all meetings of Christian conservatives, we all pledge to have an off the record meeting and a handful of the sinners start leaking like sieves. It is aggravating and typically why I never say a word in these meetings.

Since a few have decided to leak so many details from the meeting as background and anonymous sources, I want to clarify a few things from my perspective and I will do it decidedly on the record.

The first thing you need to know is that taking shots at Tony Perkins for his statements this weekend is both ignorant and wrong. Tony was selected to speak for the group as a whole and he has done a tremendous job reflecting the views of the consensus whether they are his or not. He didn’t really volunteer as much as he was chosen (I cannot have been the only Presbyterian there) and he has done his job ably.

The second thing you should note is that I personally view the state of the Christian conservative movement poorly. It is such an honor and privilege to be in the same room with James Dobson. Truth be told, I’ve been in the room with him several times and have yet to work up the courage to meet a man who has meant so much to my wife and me. Hopefully I’ll work up the courage one of these days.

But Dobson and the other men and women in the room exemplify my problem with the state of the Christian conservative movement — it is getting really old and I do not yet see authentic, strong voices rising up to succeed these pioneers. I take it as a good sign that these men picked Tony Perkins as their spokesman. In the generation that bridges the gap, Perkins is one of the few honest brokers and genuinely authentic good guys in the evangelical community and conservative movement as a whole.

A great deal of the passionate, younger voices of the Christian conservative movement are focused on Christ and not politics. While that’s a far better position to focus on, I fear the Christian conservative movement is going to be handed down to a few good young men and women surrounded by others with less sincere intentions — people who advocate people and positions in furtherance of things other than Christ’s Kingdom. The up and comers will have to rely on men like Tony Perkins to avoid irrelevance and charlatans both.

The third thing you should know about this weekend is just how well the Gingrich and Santorum camps handled themselves and how poorly the Perry and Romney camps handled themselves. I won’t even get into the advocacy on behalf of Ron Paul, which didn’t go well.

There was a decidedly sympathetic view toward Rick Santorum going into the meeting. He has been one of the leading advocates for socially conservative views. They like him on that. I was, frankly, stunned that even when some of the people chosen to speak objectively about the field pointed out that this will be an election about economics, the crowd really was focused on social concerns.

I won’t go into quotes from the men who advocated for the various candidates. Even on the record here, I want to respect the organizers’ wishes more than others have on background, but both Santorum’s advocate and Gingrich’s advocate (each candidate had someone to speak for them) did those men a great service. The Santorum pitch was largely focused on what he had done for the movement, including for the babies. The Gingrich pitch really reflected what Jonah Golberg wrote recently in his column about Newt. If you think the end of the world is nigh, you want the Churchill, not the technocrat.

Rick Perry had a lot of supporters in the crowd, but too few who thought he could win and many who want him to get out and endorse Gingrich or possibly Santorum before South Carolina votes. His advocate, a friend, was not as well prepared as the others, but many in the crowd did speak up for him.

The Romney advocacy did more harm than good and I think the biggest story to come out of this event has to be both the hostility between evangelicals and Team Romney and the absolute endorsement for “Not Romney.”

If you are reading this from the media, I think the story you should tell is that Mitt Romney will probably become the nominee of the Republican Party with even less good feelings between evangelicals and him than John McCain had.

The problem for Team Romney is that the distrust of Romney is overwhelmingly about his record and shiftiness, but the Romney campaign fundamentally believes it is about his religion. When Team Romney concluded the pitch (read from an iPad seemingly without a passionate delivery) with an admonishment to not be an anti-Mormon bigot, it was game over. Several of the attendees felt like the Romney campaign was almost implying that they’d win without evangelicals and would expect everyone to line up when it was over even without Romney reaching out.

Note to Team Romney: when you are in a room full of Christian leaders like those who were in that room and who have all long been attacked by the left as bigots, it is unwise — no, it is damn foolish — to accuse them of being anti-Mormon bigots, something too many Romney supporters have descended to as the only possible explanation for daring to not get on board with Romney.

It’s interesting that the outreach concerns are so universal. Inside the conservative blogosphere, among social conservatives, and among specifically the evangelical community there is a great deal of concern that, unlike John McCain, once the Romney camp has it in the bag they’ll go off to woo independents and leave smoldering or un-repaired bridges back to the base.

As to the vote itself, there was a consensus, but not as strong as the reported vote would have you believe. According to several I talked to who were still there for the vote, it was divided with many thinking Gingrich is the only one who can win and many not sure they want to hitch a wagon to the Gingrich train. On this, there is no difference inside and outside the evangelical community.

What gets me is that given Rick Santorum’s polling in South Carolina, his funding and campaign apparatus, the admonition from one influential person that Santorum doesn’t have the campaign to run for President, etc. separate reports suggest a number of people present decided to vote for Santorum not to beat Romney, but to be Romney’s running mate — something that most likely will not happen.

At this point, a vote for Santorum really does help Mitt Romney, but few are willing to acknowledge that. When given the chance to beat Romney, I was kind of shocked by the people who were already reconciled to his win, though that was not the majority view. Most want to fight till the end, fight to the convention, broker a convention, or do anything else to stop Romney. But by voting for Santorum, the group largely undercut more serious efforts waged by Gingrich to stop Romney and, even more troubling if Romney is the nominee and loses, potentially sets up a claim by Rick Santorum, a man who will have been out of office a decade by then, to be the 2016 front runner.

In a year when we could possibly see Bobby Jindal, John Kasich, Rick Scott, Scott Walker, Marco Rubio, and others, the evangelical movement might have just sown the first seeds of division for 2016 — seeds that, like in 2008 and 2012, prevented evangelicals from getting one of their own the nomination.

That brings up a problem with the evangelical movement within the political sphere — it is often poorly advised on strategy and cuts short term deals that undermine long term goals. But that’s a topic for another day.

COMMENTS

  • wennejunk

    innocent as doves and as wise as….doves as well in a world of serpents.

    Great.

    Good write up, thanks for the summary.

  • colleenb
    So sorry to hear you attended the meeting of the Evangelist group on Friday Erick. This proved to me one very important thing.
    Your ideals can no longer be trusted and I have read you online postings since they started.
    Since I the daughter of a Methodist minister (he passed many years ago) I can remember when a Catholic was as evil as the devil himself….by all ministers! They worshipped false idols you know.
    That thankfully has lifted throughout the years.
    If anyone on here would think for a moment that your group would support a Mormon, they are a bonehead!
    Therefore, whatever you should write from here on..it must be noted that there is a bias..a deep one.
    To even print that if Romney was nominated he would lose…shows how deeply bias you are. You also are helping Obama win the next election. Shame on YOU.
    Rick S..has not a chance and you know it. Newts past makes Romney look like a saint.
    May I suggest to you and all your evangelist friends…stay out of it. The mission is to unseat Obama. It is not to bring down the front runner due to his religion. It would have been best to write nothing Erick!
    Perhaps you have no idea how your religion may affect your thought. Maybe you can think about it for a while.
    YOU DO NOT TRY AND BRING DOWN THE FRONT RUNNER!
    Perhaps this prejudice is why so many are turning away from religion. Don’t be a part of it.
  • arthurjake

    Check out the link. This guy is not going to be the favorite of social conservatives or any kind of conservative for that matter and for good reason.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/ngingrich#p/u/13/Hwh82GtVGh4

  • Christine (Trelaina)

    Spoken like a true Republican ELITE.

    “WE will pick who is next in line, who WE want to be the candidate, and all of you nobodies will shut the ()*&)(*& up and vote for him.”

    We didn’t beat the elites this year. They will get their POS candidate to the general. I can only pray that we have a way to build towards the next election, to dismantle the elitism that is destroying our party.

  • davesinsanantonio

    almost 60 years. Not everyone who is against Romney is anti-Mormon. I do not trust that he is a conservative. I reject some of his political decisions in Massachusetts. So, while there are many who might be biased, not everyone who is against Mittens is.

  • Scope

    I pretty much agree with this article by a fellow Virginian, Riley. I especially agree that Lt. Gov. Bolling, Romney’s VA campaign chair, and the rest of the VA R elites, face a very real possibility of a Ron Paul win here, which will be a spectacular loss for those that did what they could to “clear the field” for their guy Romney. Bolling deserves to lose his Gev. bid in 2013, and this debacle will help him to accomplish that loss. He, and McDonnell have already promised a very bloody fight against VA Atty. Gen. Cuccinelli. That has already started, and has already elevated to the point where Bolling is now refusing to even speak to Cuccinelli, even though he is representing him in some lawsuit.

    I’ve been saying for a while that there are many rabid Paul supporters in this state, and as Riley said, they will come out in droves to vote for their guy, even if he’s toast by then. VA is an open primary, and as has been noted in the latest Insider Advantage poll of SC, Paul draws 58% of support from the Democrats. No doubt the VA Democrats will come out in full force to vote for Paul, but then they will vote for Obama in the General.

    You see what happens when you try to Jimmy things, and to thwart the will of the voters? I know I’m not voting in the primary, and I hearing that many others won’t either, or they will not push the button for anyone on the ballot, and register an undervote.

  • colleenb
    I wish you were right arthurjake…but it does exist.
    The last thing the Evangelist community wants in the White house is a Mormon.
    They do not believe they are Christians AND they want to try and take back some of the power they once had.
    Thankfully, I belong to this beautiful Methodist Church up here in the northeast (not Ma) with a minister that believes all are equal.
    This however is not true in the south.
    For Erick..who I did respect…to actually write that the man who most likely is going to be the nominee…that he can not win…has done a great disservice to all. Almost sounds like Obama is a better choice than Romney. Read between the lines.
    Thankfully though..religious prejudice is much less of a factor now.
    Romney has a very good chance of winning.
    You see..George Washington never did come riding up on his horse to save us.
    OBAMA MUST BE UNSEATED!
  • arthurjake

    If all he is offering is a watered down version of what we are getting from Obama then he will fail. If he does win we get more of the same anyway. I don’t think the republican party has learned anything from nominating people like McGramps, Dole, and electing Bush.

  • mayflower

    Confession: I find this is morbidly mesmerizing.

    My heart is entirely committed to what is best for America, parties be damned; and I earnestly hope for civility in discourse, accuracy in campaign commentary, and a coming together of our people in mutual effort to help our country recover from calamity. Honest.

    But…

    There is also a tiny, unattractive little thrill in watching this electoral train wreck unfold. So far, my personal score is Unattractive Little Thrill: 1, Better Nature: 0.

    I am sorry to admit this, but it’s true. It’s rather like watching Political NASCAR – ostensibly admiring the skill of the drivers and the speed of the cars, but with a particle inside riveted by the thought that one of those suckers just might crash any minute. Not really very nice, and certainly not to be wished for. But there it is.

    And now here before us: We have the Evangelical Christians gathered in Texas throwing their considerable weight behind Catholic Santorum – knowing full well that he has not even been thoroughly vetted yet and heaven only knows what may come of it. When (good heavens!) many of them hold the belief that Catholics are going to Hell and that the Pope is the Anti-Christ. Sit quietly for a moment and you could practically feel the anguish reverberating from The Lone Star State.

    I feel they have done this because they ? unlike most of our population – are aware of what the tenets of Romney’s Mormonism call him to believe. That’s not the official reason they are giving for backing the Santorum. But they know that what Romney believes is worse, much worse according to their lights, and is a principal reason he must be stopped. They don’t say it, but they know the code and signal it.

    Of course they won’t SAY it’s because he’s Mormon, not with Romney campers on hand to label them bigots, though you may hear a quiet reference to differences in “theology”. But of course it is. Good grief, the guy has pretzeled himself trying to please them; he’s done everything on every channel but write it in blood that he’ll reverse Roe v. Wade with the next Supreme; that he’ll champion the reversal of special rights for gays; and that he’ll firmly commit to social Darwinism (though he wisely does NOT to use the D-word when communicating this). He is a poster child for the Perfect American Families they like to see in the pews, he looks like Dudley Do-Right and gets more conservative moment by moment in his progress towards the nomination. But theology IS the base problem, because they actually know – unlike most of the population of the U.S. – what beliefs the LDS church subscribes to, and how stunningly different those beliefs are from your average Evangelical.

    If it were to suddenly become common knowledge that LDS beliefs assume Mr. Romney has a future as a god with his own planet (no kidding) and that the Lord God Almighty is not only made in human form but had physical sex with the Virgin Mary in order to bring forth Jesus (really, no kidding) – we could find the evening news awash with stories of millions of Evangelical Christians flooding the emergency rooms of America with their ears bleeding. It’s one thing to shake your head sadly when your preacher states with grim consternation that Mormons are a cult. It’s a whole different thing to learn that your future president thinks he is personally destined for godhood and that the Lord had sex.

    Right now, the fundamentalist Christian leadership assembled by Tony Perkins wouldn’t want this sort of thing to get out widely, because Romney may STILL become the Republican nominee, and they will want the Evangelical vote in play or power goes away to set agendas. They are in a Major Pickle.

    And then…there are all those lovely Mormons, whom I regard with affection and respect – who so desperately want to be mainstreamed as Christians, and who are convinced that if they could just get a president elected would have a chance for all their missionary dreams to come true. This part is a little heart-wrenching really. Kind of like the first day your child goes off to school happily expecting to have a great time with new friends, and returns home in tears because found trouble on the playground.

    Remember, these are folk who spend two years of their lives as missionaries when they are young. They would view the Bully Pulpit of the White House as a gift and possibly sign from God. Bless their hearts, they mean so well. And it’s not as if they are selling some horrible cruel religion or anything. It’s a perfectly nice religion in a great many respects – but to traditional Christians, it’s pretty darned peculiar when you get down to theological details. Typically, people are pretty big on theological details. Just count all the varieties of churches sometime.

    I’d be willing to guarantee you, when it comes to the part where Catholics are informed that the Virgin Mary must have had sex – well, it won’t be pretty. When – very politely and earnestly and with our best interests at heart – the LDS church to which the new President belongs advises all the Protestant religions that they, along with Catholics, are suffering from apostasy in their apostate little churches every Sunday, that some of their Holy Scripture is flawed, and that…well, there?s quite a list. I sincerely hate to think of how much the reaction will hurt our Mormon friends. In the fundamentalist Christian community assembled by Mr. Perkins, they will find people not famous for being widely embracing of the religious views of others, nor for tolerance regarding matters of biblical interpretation.

    I’m wondering what will the Evangelical community will do if Romney gets the nomination. When it comes right down to it – and the choice before them is to vote for a guy who expects to be a god (in your spare time take a little wander around the Bible) or a Dreaded-Kenyan-Muslim-Socialist-Obama? What will win out? Hatred for Obama, or horror at the theological beliefs of their only choice if Santorum fails to catch fire in the public imagination of America? (And considering that a good number of Americans happily practicing birth control might like to metaphorically set fire to Santorum, this is at least a possibility.)

    I wonder what’s going to happen – watching all this with a guilty fascination, and resisting the urge to reach for popcorn.

    We’d better all pray for America from our various places in God’s kingdom of theological understandings. The country needs it. This unfolding nomination process is looking like it really could crash.

  • colleenb
    Not nice to assume one is anything without knowing them..now is it?
    Another predjudice perhaps?

    Who is WE?
    Did I say VOTE FOR ROMENY?

    Get off the ‘elite’ train and make sure Obama is defeated.

  • zaac

    Is the devil himself running this election cycle? (smh)

    Mitt Romney- Christians are against abortion because it’s murder. They are against gay sex because it’s fornication. Isn’t the worship of a god who is NOT Jesus Christ ( and all the lies by Mormons in the world will not change this FACT) idolatry? So why have some resigned themselves to never vote for a pro-choice candidate but will vote for a candidate who worships a god that is not Jesus Christ? Is the issue of abortion more important? Is it more important to beat Barack Obama or to honor Christ FIRST by not supporting someone who DOES NOT support Him?

    Newt Gingrich-Simply has more baggage than you can shake a stick at. Forgiveness is not at issue. Character is. So except for a silver tongue, why on Earth would Christians who stand on conviction support a Newt Gingrich over a Rick Perry or Rick Santorum?

    Rick Santorum- Nice enough guy. His conservatism is kinda so so and he’s a much better choice than either Gingrich or Romney. But he lacks the “governing” executive experience.

    Rick Perry- A naturally, down to earth, proven Godly conservative who has consistently espoused conservative principles moreso than any of the rest. And he has the executive experience. He is the one, who on paper, should be the logical choice for evangelical Christians to rally behind. So what is the issue here?

    When the Body of Christ fails to give Christ His due HONOR, perhaps it is best that the country get exactly what it deserves in 4 more years of the current administration that WILL destroy this country as we know it.

    There is simply no reason for the GOP establishment to think that evangelical Christians will rally behind a nominee who does not worship Christ. And it is my prayer that after all the stuff that we have gotten wrong that evangelicals at least hold firm in our dedication to Christ FIRST.

    So why is the GOP establishment pushing a candidate who cannot carry the evangelical base? Are they banking that a lot of folks aren’t evangelical but “Christian” in name only and Christ doesn’t really matter?

    Why is the GOP establishment pushing a candidate so much like Obama when Independents can vote for Obama as opposed to someone like Obama?

    Why does the man who on paper seems to have more in common with evangelicals and who has the freshest ideas and governing experience not get the backing of evangelicals?

    An odd election cycle indeed.

  • arthurjake

    You claiming that southern evangelicals are bigoted. I am a southern evangelical and am far from bigoted. If they really were that bigoted they wouldn’t be voting in droves for the two Catholics on the ballot they would be voting for Perry. Maybe you should spend more time in the south and learn how opposite we really are when it comes to that. You might even get to learn what real conservatives are and not pro abortion, pro gun control, tax and spend, socialized medicine loving liberals that call themselves conservative.

  • colleenb
    I am sure that is true. We all have reasons why we stand behind someone.
    I am a Rick Perry person, although I have had to face he is not going to make it.
    At the same time…one must not think that the gathering of 150 Evangelist were PRO MORMON.
    Not a chance.
    I think there were 3 who did vote for Romney. Perhaps the only ones who were not so prejudice, that they could see he is the only one capable of winning. I also must confess, I do not see him in a bad light…he is no different than ANY politician.
  • http://www.planettron.com NickDeringer

    I agree with most of your article. My coffee cup went flying across the room when I got to the part about Gingrich being a great leader like Churchill.

    Newt Gingrich the man who said that FDR was the greatest President of the last 100 years?

    Newt Gingrich the man who said that he considers himself a ?Re?al politique Wilsonian?.

    Newt Gingrich the man who said that Conservatives should join the fight against Man Made Global Warming and wrote an entire book about it?

    Newt Gingrich the man who has changed his position more times than a yoga instructor. “I was for health care mandates before I was against them.” “Life beings at implanntation…ooops….I really mean conception.”

    Video: Gingrich sits down with Hillary and talks mandates

    Speaking of implantation, Newt Gingrich the man who said that life begins at “implantation” leaving the door open for embryonic stem cell production and the turning of human life into a commodity since they use embryos WHICH ARE NEVER IMPLANTED??

    Perhaps Erick should read “The Last Lion: Winston Spencer Churchill, Alone 1932-1940″ before he links a great man like Churchill to a fast talking con man like Gingrich.

  • zaac

    You cannot win without carrying the party base. And as I said before, there are enough evangelical Christians in the GOP who recognize that it is more important to honor Christ by not supporting someone who supports a false god than it is to beat Obama.

    The Body of Christ NEEDS to stand with CHRIST FIRST!!!

  • jmartin70

    but WHAT posting where you reading??? Erik stated that ROMNEY’s spokesman suggested there was and would be religious bias against him…. not the attendees themselves displaying religious bias against him. YOU are the one who stated they have a religious bias against him…… so, were you there?? Because if you were [since you seem to have knowledge of what went on in the meeting], then, as your logic suggests, we must stop expecting that anything you write has the least hint of objectivity. That seems to be your standard…. but, it is early…..

    The democratic process is to SELECT a candidate, not CROWN a candidate – and since we are so early in the process, it seems presumptive to say that Romney is definitely, without a question, stop-saying-mean-things-about-him-because-we-all-know-he-HAS-to-be-the-nominee-and-all-these-other-candidates-are-just-wasting-our-money-and-our-time, the 2012 Republican candidate for President. You seem to be less objective than Erik….. but it is early. “Stay out of it” – wow…..so, we are to believe you don’t one part of the electorate involved in the political process……that sounds like a decidedly un-American sentiment. But……it is early…..

    And, lastly, Erik never wrote that if selected, Romney would lose, at least, not in this article. And, if he has ever expressed that opinion, it has in NO WAY been connected to this particular meeting last week. Erik Erikson is by no means completely objective – is this a surprise to you? But……. it is early…….. have a great day!

  • bzip

    Thanks Erick for the summary of events on Friday. It appears that you are basically confirming much of what has leaked out from what I can tell.

    Let see, the group pick Santorum and thinks Perry can?t win. Odd, can anyone honestly here in at Redstate tell me that they think Santorum can win, honestly? The general election is going to be about the economy not gay rights and social issues.

    Santorum is about the worst candidate there is to go against Obama. This doesn?t even include the fact the Santorum is the least likely to take out Romney. So Santorum is basically being played up for Romney?s VP and/or 2016 is my conclusion and a disastrous conclusion. Is there any doubt that Santorum is only a social conservative as opposed to fiscal limiting reforming conservative?

    Now we have Perry, who has never lost an election in his life, he basically fits the social conservative criteria and holds a true record of conservative governing experience behind him yet they want to say he is the least likely to win. I say Perry is the most likely to win in the general ? Perry has the best record to contrast against Obama than any other candidate (I might here from the Newt supporters on that, but that is okay).

    Did anyone see Perry?s debate in the Huckabee forum on Saturday? The passion Perry showed in that debate should put to rest any doubts as to how well Perry could perform in a debate. Perry was on fire in that debate. I wonder what Erick?s thoughts are on that debate?

    The question is going to be: Who moves on to Florida after SC? Does Santorum have any organization, really money to fight Romney in Florida, I don?t think so? Do Newt and/or Perry go onto Florida? Watch the ad buys, that might be telling. So far Romney is the only one who ads buy in Florida and he is already playing them.

    This coming week, the SC vote will tell us what will happen next. My guess is unless Santorum pulls off strong showing in SC he is out, he doesn?t have the resources to go to Florida and if he does Santorum won?t get a good showing in Florida and will be out for sure after that. What happens to Newt and Perry after SC?

  • circlegranch

    Team Romney has clearly decided to employ reverse discrimination using religion in order to beat Christians that follow Christ instead of Man over the head. Strong-arm tactics from powerful politicians frighten Americans.

    Whether its Dr. Dobson or Mr. Perkins, all rely 100% on charitable donations in order to continue their work of spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In the case of Dobson’s impressive campus, Focus on the Family in Colorado Springs, this organization has suffered its share of economic downturn. Once a prominent employer, they have reduced staff significantly. The money has simply not been coming in over the past several years to sustain the original staffing levels. For organizations that thrive and fail based on the amount of discretionary spending their supporters are able to put forth to now ignore the cold reality of our fiscal crisis is stunning. If we don’t get a balanced budget in Washington; if we don’t slash and reduce spending; not only will the country not survive, neither will these large Christian and faith-based mega-companies that outreach around the world. There was one candidate before them this weekend that can prove he has the abilities to contain spending and thus, assist these Christian organizations in sustaining themselves.

    There is a blatant ignorance afoot amongst many preachers and ministers in both small churches around the country and obviously, at the highest levels of Christian leadership. The Christian faith is under attack in America and those in pulpits and in high places such as at Focus on the Family are doing little about it. There was one candidate before these leaders over the weekend that had the courage to take the national stage and declare that the Christian faith is under full attack; there is a war afoot. More and more Christians are being slaughtered around the world at the hands of zealots of other belief systems. Chinese Christians were murdered on Christmas Day and just days ago, worshipers in a Christian church in Africa were gunned down by extremists. There are many that worry how long it will be before Christians in America will be under such brutal attacks. When hard working people of faith mail in a donation to Focus on the Family or buy a book or DVD at the gift shop, they assume the proceeds will be used to tell the Good News that is Christ Crucified. The evangelical leadership of this nation should have taken the broadest view possible into account before casting votes this weekend.

    Rick Santorum has a big govt record of spending during his years in the Senate. He supported pro-abortionist, Arlen Spector, over pro-lifer, Pat Toomey. Rick Santorum (and Newt Gingrich, for that matter) has no more clear record regarding support for life than Rick Perry. Santorum and Gingrich promise to defund Planned Parenthood, Rick Perry already has. Rick Perry also signed legislation in 2011 that requires ultrasound prior to abortion. That’s being hotly contested now in Texas, yet he stands behind his decision.

    There is a war on religion. There is a war on our economy; the destruction of which will hit home very quickly to Focus and other groups when families must choose between buying bread and the latest DVD or book put out by Dobson or Perkins. There is a war on our founding principles and our way of life. There is a war on American exceptionalism.

    Had the intent this past weekend been to thoroughly vet candidates in a comprehensive way that includes all aspects of crisis in America, their choice would have been different. Rev. Hagee spoke highly of Rick Perry on Sean Hannity’s radio program after the prayer event in Texas last summer. Apparently, a whole lot of common sense has gotten lost along the way to the Republican nomination.

    May God save the United States of America.

  • colleenb
    Yes, they do tend to be more extreme in the South.
    Sorry if that offended you….perhaps you would like to look up the stats. You may find the answer quite quickly.
    Catholics are being considered..because there are no other choice. Rick S…was the ONLY choice.

    Newt…all behind Freddie Mac has not even come out yet. He also is mean tempered and tries to display his vast knowing of American History. I have not yet to hear something he has said that I did not already know..did you?
    Rick Perry was the best..in my eyes. Every time he flubbed up..I was mortified…so there goes your theory that I AM A BIGOT.
    If the 150 Evangelist thought he had a chance…he would have been their choice..not Santorum.
    I always read RedState and I can say honestly..Erick would have voted for Rick Perry if he had a chance.
    I am the opposite of what you stated…no bigotry, that is why I can spot it quite quickly.
    Regards…

  • maybenexttime

    It’s Romney’s turn at the top according to the GOP establishment, and I think that is what most Evangical and Tea Party folks resent. Instead of picking a candidate that best represents a clear contrast from Obama, they are going with this failed “line of succession” approach. The Republican party found out what happened in 2008 when the base was stuck with an uninspiring nominee. Why do they think 2012 will be any different?

  • circlegranch

    passionate and clearly should point to what the man stands for and where his heart is, the gang on Fox and Friends, led by everybody’s neighborhood gossip, Gretchen Carlson, just spoke w/ Trump. No mention of the Huckabee program, what was said, what it could mean. Instead, its all about the rehash of Bain. How dare any American expect transparency or ask a question of the man that wants to run the world.

    This is a very demoralizing and depressing election process at this point. The very idea of so-called Evangelical elites meeting in order to pick the one candidate with the most faithful heart is on its face disgusting. They have no more ability to look into the heart of men and then to play God and judge than any of the rest of us. Judge not, so that you will not be judged.

    The fix has been in on this deal for so very long. The one thing Rick Perry did accomplish is that he brought truth to the arena. He was ignored by media sources that should have jumped at the chance to cast a spotlight on his career and record. Instead, he’s been maligned. Blessed are those that suffer in His name.

  • romansdaughter

    there are lots of Mormons there and she says that most of her Mormon neighbors would not vote for Mitt. They think he is not conservative enough. They are mostly waiting to see who of the more conservative are still in the race when Idaho votes. So mostly to me Mormon religion isn’t as big a factor as his moderate leanings. Mitt is not that conservative.

  • annie54

    n/t

  • tercel

    But true.

    I am an Evangelical Christian and the life vote is my litmus test.

    I love his passion and love his fight for life and marriage. I wish he were still Senator.

    Rick Santorum is running as the Family Values Candidate. He has 7 children some young and home schooled and one (miracle Bella) with severe handicaps. I believe his most important job is mentoring and raising those children.

    POTUS is a job like NO other. You can’t leave it, you don’t stop thinking about it, (evidenced by the gray hair they all don upon taking the position). You literally have the weight of the whole world on your shoulders. There will be no time to go and sit in a hospital room and comfort your wife while you keep watch over beautiful Bella. There will be no time for helping with homework or coaching a Little League team or the important conversations you have on the way to dance practice.

    Santorum is in his early 50′s. He has plenty of time to do this when his family is older. Family values are caught, not taught.

  • HaroldHutchison

    I can understand how Romney’s record can cause concerns for some on the right. Then again, I’d love to see how the preferred candidates (Perry, Gingrich, Santorum) would have done as governors facing a veto-proof Dem legislature.

    However, your paragraph, “The problem for Team Romney is that the distrust of Romney is overwhelmingly about his record and shiftiness, but the Romney campaign fundamentally believes it is about his religion. When Team Romney concluded the pitch (read from an iPad seemingly without a passionate delivery) with an admonishment to not be an anti-Mormon bigot, it was game over. Several of the attendees felt like the Romney campaign was almost implying that they?d win without evangelicals and would expect everyone to line up when it was over even without Romney reaching out.”

    However, reports from article6blog.com show that the Romney camp probably has good reason to question if it is the Mormon thing. Going back to 2006, when an operative with the McCain campaign played the Mormon card (http://www.article6blog.com/2006/09/24/the-gloves-come-off-in-south-carolina-and-the-low-blow-comes-from-mccains-camp/), there have been evangelicals who DID make Romney’s religion an issue.

    The Mormon card was played by Huckabee in the 2008 campaign, as well.

    Need I also mention the Jeffress incident from last October (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/07/perry-backer-romney-in-cult-not-christian/)? Or some Perry backers who urged him to make Romney’s religion an issue (http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/oct/13/perry-backers-lament-errors-in-campaign/print/)? Or the Gingrich supporter who said that Mormons scared her, but weren’t as scary as Moslems (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/287205/gingrich-backer-raises-doubts-about-romneys-faith-brian-bolduc)?

    So, as someone who backs Romney, what do I believe, claims that it’s not about Romney’s religion, or my own experience seeing reports of supporters of Romney’s rivals in two presidential election cycles targeting his faith from not just Romney supporters at Article6Blog.com, but the Washington Times, National Review, and FoxNews.com?

    As hard as being asked that question is, Erick, some of your fellow Evangelicals provided a rational basis for Romney supporters to ask that question.

  • colleenb

    So well written. Thank you.
    I am afraid I could never be a diplomat.

    Everything you just wrote, happens to be truth.

  • pdawk

    that your post is why despite Erick’s musings on how the evangelical leaders based their votes, everyone with a brain knows the reason Romney had no shot was because he is a Mormon. It would be easier if they just had the courage to stand up and say that they don’t want a Romney as president because they don’t see Mormon’s as Christians. At least then it would be all out on the table.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    You prove by your words you are a one issue voter. And not a vey smart one at that. First of all the presidency has not much to do with the life issue, and all of the candidates (even Ron Paul) are pro-life and have said they would appoint strict constructionist judges which is about the only thing the president can do.

    But you would rather support a really non-conservative like Santorum only because he pushes the so called family issues. Our country is in a depression and drowning in debt, Those are the real family issues right now,

    Santorum has only ever been for big government on fiscal matters and wants to start a trade war. He is an idiot on fiscal matters.

  • colleenb

    This is the second post that is so honest and to the point.
    You are a person of honor and truth Harold.

    Well said sir……

    BRAVO!

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …of how Perry “walks the talk”…regarding the ultrasound law:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/14/us-texas-abortion-idUSTRE80C2BD20120114

    “A federal appeals court on Friday ordered the immediate enforcement of a new Texas abortion law that asks abortion providers to play pregnant women the sounds of the fetal heartbeat.”

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Get out of here you bigot, you hate monger.

  • josephine

    I think it has very little to do with Romney’s religion. That is his campaign trying to sway the public into believing that -thus creating more division.
    I’m frustrated with this. It seems to happen every election. I can’t understand why they can’t see that with a true conservative in office, we will be left alone to our faith and the gov’t will protect our rights. Let the Constitution do it’s job.
    By Santorum entering this process he has created a divide and he is not a conservative in our fiscal issues.
    SC Sen. Davis has just put us all in the danger of nuclear attack by endorsing Ron Paul.
    Maybe they just don’t see. ? What can’t they see.? Can’t they see what’s happening? Splitting the vote is going to give Romney the nomination. I wish Perry would throw his support behind Gingrich.
    Thank you for letting us know these things.

  • tercel

    I am not supporting Santorum and I wish he were not running at this point in his life.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …and raises a question you should want to answer.

    You wrote of the confidentiality-clause ["we all pledge to have an off the record meeting and a handful of the sinners start leaking like sieves"] and yet divulged what transpired [candidly, undoubtedly correctly, but not necessarily definitively because you weren't there on Saturday].

    What compelled you to break your pledged-silence, particularly because you must have been transmitting second-hand knowledge/perceptions in the process?

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    If you’re coming into this thread to talk about how you think Southern Christians are all bigots, and you want to keep your account… then rethink your plan.

  • citizenkh

    You really need to pay attention and find more out about this guy who BACK STABBED the GOP here in Louisiana in 2008. He publicly spoke out against Joseph Cao over his actually doing his level best to represent his constituency.

    Perkins will politically ruin the Christian Conservative Movement on a Nationwide scale.

  • westcoastpatriette

    Now I see why so many prominent people are staying mum about endorsing anyone. I wish all of those Evangelicals had kept their thoughts to themselves. I have just lost more respect for them and even feel anger at their apparent stupidity at overlooking the obvious best candidate. No wonder they have failed so miserably at impacting our culture — apparently they are partially blind.

    They do not represent me and like you, Erick, I am feeling like there is a generation gap that might be in play here — I cannot relate to them and do not respect what they have just wrought.

    Did anyone hear Santorum try to defend himself in the Huckabee forum when someone asked him how he can call himself conservative when he had voted five times to raise the debt ceiling? He stumbled and muttered finally making the excuse that there is little that one can do about the debt when in Congress but he would be able to do a lot as president. In other words, a whiny excuse for being a big government conservative.

    Santorum also comes off as a self-righteous, judgmental (angry) Christian — something that really turns me off about most of the so-called leaders of the Evangelical conservatives. And this is the main reason they are so ineffective in our culture, IMO. They present a phony view of perfection that leaves one feeling judged for being human and excluded from their club of the “righteous ones.”

    No thanks.

  • citizenkh

    just a little.

    http://thehayride.com/2010/11/prediction-cao-will-lose-tomorrow/

  • edintexas

    “?no bigotry, that is why I can spot it quite quickly.” At first I thought “She’s having us on.”, as the Brits would say. But then, in context, it is apparent that she really believes this. Amazing.

  • citizenkh

    “I served for years on the Republican State Central Committee with Tony Perkins (aka: the Tooth Fairy). Apparently, the creepy Tooth Fairy is also a ?cannibal.?

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …when asked to defend his pro-labor votes.

    He claimed he was only a Senator and, thus, was compelled to uphold PA policies; when Chris Wallace asked him to compare/contrast with RomneyCare, he conjured “distinctions without differences.”

    This is LEADERSHIP?

  • Bill S

    If you want to talk about him, write a diary.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …emerges:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jan/16/activists-say-pro-santorum-vote-was-rigged/

  • sta46

    By throwing their support to Santorum they have helped Romney big time.
    Please keep in mind as I run through this that we are evangelicals here so we are not slamming their actions based on any bigotry.
    What they did was utterly and completely stupid. Dobson has indeed meant much to many of us as we have struggled through the mine-field which is called parenting. That being said, good parenting does not necessarily make for good (translate SMART) politics. You should have schooled them better on the nuances of that, Eric.
    By supporting Santorum IMO they have cut off at the knees the only candidate who actually had a chance to beat Obama. That would have been Rick Perry. He has been strongly and consistently pro-life, is the most conservative of the bunch by far and has an established track record of governance. What the hell more do they want?
    Did they think Santorum is going to take down the rogue NLRB? He’s one of the ones who years ago voted AGAINST a right to work bill that had come out of the House. He has ZERO governing experience and absolutely ZERO chance of beating Obama in November. So what the exactly did they think they were going to achieve with throwing their support to him instead of to the committed Christian who has the will and the guts to make things happen for all of us? These allegdely smart men made a really stupid decision.
    And for all of you who think we Christians hate Romney because he’s a Mormon think again. His religion didn’t even make my list of reasons why I loathe him.
    Let’s start with the fact that the author of the blueprint for o-care announced at one of the debates that he would issue waivers for all 50 (57 ?) states. Do you actually understand what that means down the road? He is not going to REPEAL it, just issue waivers. That leaves ALL THE STRUCTURE IN PLACE (not to mention the 200,000 federal employees who have already been hired to implement it) for the next round of dems to stuff it down our throats later.
    He is a liar… those 100,000 allegdely created jobs while he was at Bain… check out how many of them were in Chaina and Mexico.
    He will have a serious and extremely damaging effect down ticket. I fear millions of conservatives will not be able to hold their noses and pull the lever for a man whose only difference from little barry soweto is the cost of their suits.
    I could go on all day but will refrain.
    Suffice it to say I am both angry and mystified by their actions. They will prove to have dire consequences for all of us.

  • edintexas

    Are there religious bigots in the Republican Party? Sure there are, a few racists too. But you both are willing to paint the majority with the charge, supported by statements by a few. As someone who has worked with LDS members, including a Bishop, I resent that.

    But neither of you are bigots, or even slightly prejudiced.

  • freedom555

    …The One you don’t” is the phrase that comes to mind when thinking about the coming election.

    Whether it’s Obama or any of our contenders, each have been and will be ‘demonized’.

    So which one are you more comfortable with? Which one is less of a mystery for you?

    I think that’s the problem for Romney against Obama. I don’t see that Romney has the skill to demystify himself with the American public.

  • westcoastpatriette

    Just why are they so worried about confidentiality? It sends another stupid message that these are supposedly upstanding Godly men whose opinions we should hold in awe but the public is not even allowed to know who the heck they are? Why should we even care about what they think when we don’t even know who was there?

  • spinoneone

    The last time I looked the idea was to beat Obama. Frankly, if we want to maintain the protection of the Constitution nothing else matters. If we continue this insane political squabble over social issues we will assure an Obama victory. That will mean the end of the U.S. Constitution as we know and an accelerated slide from Republic to Empire – and I don’t mean with a President! Fiscal rectitude and the rule of law are the two paramount issues for 2012. If you think the most important issue is abortion, Mormonism, same sex marriage, or any similar issue you are deluding yourself. If Obama wins you may all find that mere discussion of those issues in the public forum, such as it may be by then, will be a “hate” crime. Be careful what you wish for, folks.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …this is why Perry MUST remain…to say what others don’t say.

    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/01/15/exp-sotu-perry-marines-incident-115.cnn

    NOT TEPID ABOUT ACCUSING THE WHITE HOUSE OF HARBORING ?DISDAIN FOR THE MILITARY?: ?What is really disturbing to me is just, kind of, the over-the-top rhetoric from this administration and their disdain for the military,? Perry said on CNN when asked about the investigation into the picture of four Marines urinating on the bodies of dead Taliban members. ?Well, obviously, 18, 19-year-old kids make stupid mistakes all too often, and that’s what’s occurred here. But, you know, when you’re — when you’re in war — and history, kind of, backs up there’s a picture of General Patton doing basically the same thing in the Rhine river. And although there’s not a picture, Churchill did the same thing on the Siegfried line? They shouldn’t have done it. It’s bad. But to call it a criminal act, I think, is over the top.? Video: http://bit.ly/xUsokt

    {this is from Politico’s “Morning Score”}

  • tercel

    Romney is running as “job creator” evidenced by his work at Bain Capital. That is his resume’ which makes it fair game to scrutinize.

    Bain Capital was not in the job creating business. Bain Capital was not in the business of producing anything but profits for its investors. Bain Capital made money as it was intended to do whether it created jobs or destroyed them or shipped them over seas. ROI was the point of Bain Capital. That is capitalism and the best system on earth but hardly in the business of creating jobs.

    Romney’s record of job creation (which I contend is one of the businesses of government…to create an ATMOSPHERE for job creation not to make a profit) was as Governor of MA. There he was 47th out 50.

    Now when government is small and regulations are low and taxes are low and government gets the heck out of the way…jobs are created. But that is not the record Romney is running on. He is running on his job at Bain Capital not his job as Governor of MA.

  • tercel

    Romney is running as “job creator” evidenced by his work at Bain Capital. That is his resume’ which makes it fair game to scrutinize.

    Bain Capital was not in the job creating business. Bain Capital was not in the business of producing anything but profits for its investors. Bain Capital made money as it was intended to do whether it created jobs or destroyed them or shipped them over seas. ROI was the point of Bain Capital. That is capitalism and the best system on earth but hardly in the business of creating jobs.

    Romney’s record of job creation (which I contend is one of the businesses of government…to create an ATMOSPHERE for job creation not to make a profit) was as Governor of MA. There he was 47th out 50.

    Now when government is small and regulations are low and taxes are low and government gets the heck out of the way…jobs are created. But that is not the record Romney is running on. He is running on his job at Bain Capital not his job as Governor of MA.

    When you can’t win on the facts or defend your position…scream discrimination. (they hate me because I’m a Morman) Why not everyone else does. I just hate to see Republicans do it.

  • panzerbenz

    That is so over the top. It is a great leap to say the man will not protect our nation because he thinks this problem should be tackled another way. The can of worms that would be opened by further invasions would increase the chances of a nuclear attack in the future. More importantly, our country is broke. Look at what is going on in Europe right now. We have more financial problems on the horizon and more war will only carry us down the same path of economic destruction as the British, Soviet and Roman empires. Ron Paul is the only candidate even acknowledging these problems.
    I have no doubt that Dr. Paul would take us to war if it becomes necessary and I know he would not do so for political reasons, which is more than I can say for others who would hold that office.
    And before anyone starts crying that I’m some troll for Ron Paul, know this: I did not come here to promote Dr. Paul. I came here to exchange ideas and have discussion with other conservatives. I will respect you even if you refuse to treat me in kind.

  • bobguzzardi

    Good point zaac.

    Why isn’t Rick Perry the choice of Evangelicals, especially, Texas Evangelicals.

    What is it that they know or think they know that makes them resist a Rick Perry endorsement?

    I am a Jew and well aware of both theological differences and anti-Semitic history of Catholicism and Christianity and, it is more obvious than needs to be said, that American Evangelicals are philo-Semitic and defenders of a sovereign Jewish State, Israel.

    Religious differences will be resolved when the Messiach comes. In the meantime, we do our best to love our neighbor.

  • bobguzzardi

    who got rich from government and has never held a private sector job, or created a job creating, profitable and productive business.

    The Republican candidate for President is a Lobbyist? What are we thinking. Dazzled by rhetoric again, it seems.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    We ban Paultards.

  • bobguzzardi

    I cannot understand why Rick Perry has not gotten traction. His authenticity and commitment to Constitution and Biblical principles is clear. This is a mystery to me.

  • unitedwestood

    My heart sank. We have only one God, One Jesus and ONE Holy Spirit. Yet, we have so many view points and opinions. Perhaps instead of men thinking with their heads… they should of looked in their hearts, talked this over with God and been Holy Spirit led. Men are easily fooled, the Holy Spirit is not.

    I’m thinking about when Israel wanted a king, but God wanted to be their king. He gave them what they wanted, even though he knew it wasn’t good for them. They ended up with Saul. The hand of God was on him till he messed up. Then the Profet was sent to the house of Jesse to get the next king. Well, of course it needed to Eliab ( miss spellings all in this post) according to what man thought, but no, it was to be David. The one men would not have picked, had it not been for the Prophet being LED by God, they would have put Eliab up for king and messed up again, the boy was a prideful coward. Only God knew his heart.

    When I read Ericks account of what happened, or at least some of what happened, my heart just sank. These men are not led by the Holy Spirit, they are leaning on their own understanding. When Christians look at the record of the candidates ( as many have already pointed out on here, more will come) it’s obvious to some Christian observers what’s taking place in our country and why Christians are been persecuted. I used to believe it was because we are Christains, as the bible states, but I no longer believe that. I believe we are being persecuted because we’re stupid, prideful and are lukewarm. Jesus said he would spew us out of his mouth.

    This election cycle for me has become more about my faith and beliefs then it is about politics. See, I do not believe you can seperate someones polical views from the religious or Christian views, it is who we are…. A few on here have suggested that many are mormon bigots… well, perhaps we are. Perhaps we understand that just because somone can quote the bible, or they attended a church for 20 years, or they claim to be a Christian, does not mean they know or have a relationship with Jesus. The blind lead the blind, they both fall in the ditch. What’s worse, we are accountable for those votes, we are putting our seal of approval on that person, this goes much deeper for me then just the President of a country. Also means that they will only do what is in their hearts. Obama is the perfect example of that. Look where we are!

    If the body of Christ doesn’t come together and rise up as one, we’re all going to get some pretty harsh treatment. We’re all going to find out that Nebuchadnezzar is the leader and we’re in a world of even more hurt. The bible say’s that we will give an account for every idle word… Makes you wonder if we will also give an account for every vote cast. God does care about politics, obviously.

    This is just a side note…. and I’ve already spoken in another post about my Self described Socialist sister-in-law. Well, she visited here not too long ago. She’s supposed to be the pillar of “christianity’ in my husbands family, at least that’s how she holds herself out there to many. I was to the point of searching the scriptures to see if I’ve missed it some where, I stressed this for about a week before she got here. The woman sat at my dinning room table and said ” The bible is not the final authority, and in the next breath she added, Paul was a closet gay” ! Yes, you could have blown me over with a feather. This, this is a type of christian we have running around helping to define who we as Christians are?! So, again, my heart is deeply troubled by the actions I’m seeing by the so-called ” Christian” of today. Sorry to be so long… but I wanted to get that off my chest!

  • unitedwestood

    This wasn’t in reply to anyone …. so it ended up here. I canceled a reply and meant to do a stand along. Please forgive my slowness this morning… Eck gads!

  • unitedwestood

    This wasn’t in reply to anyone …. so it ended up here. I canceled a reply and meant to do a stand along. Please forgive my slowness this morning… Eck gads!

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    is beside the point. What they clearly don’t understand is the meaning of the word “conservative”.

    Folks like Jim Dobson have made huge contributions to our society, but they’ve done it in the role that they were called by God to perform. Dobson has consistently made a fool of himself in politics. Same for the rest of the folk sitting around the table. They do great damage to conservative movement – see Pat Robertson, Mike Huckabee and Santorum – and they damage their Christian outreach. They’ve been called to be ambassadors of Christ, not politicians, and frankly given their record on endorsements I’m no longer sure they understand their calling and they certainly don’t understand the teachings of Jesus on personal responsibility v government.

    The desire to be King makers in our society has pretty well removed all of the respect I once had for these folk. They are nothing more than than the Israelites of old crying to God “Give us a King!”, and that didn’t work out so well.

  • aeaeren

    These choices or bunch of wanna be leaders from both the Dems and the Republicans the best we have for leaders? Really I mean for the most part EVERY ONE of the just plain SUCK! It doesn’t matter if it is Obama, Clinton, Romney, Bush, McCain, ect they just flat plain SUCK! Can you imagine how the founding fathers would see a Debbie Whathername Shultz, or Harry Reid or Mitch McConnell?

    And now look at what we are discussing, are Mormons Christians? REALLY? Frankly I am not worried about Mormons or Catholics or Southern Baptist or even Scientogist, I am WAY more concerned with radical minded Muslims when it comes to religions. We are going to get what we deserve in leadership when all we do is bicker over one’s religion.

    You know I truly don’t see how we avoid a bloody mess. Our leadership treats us like we are stupid. Play wedge issues to the max to keep us at each other throats, have the media backing them and covering up for them and the Drones who are trained like a monkey to VOTE Party period and every election we get the worse of the worse to choose to be our next idiot in charge. Any decent person get’s run off with they are too Stooopid or some other made up media narritive.

    So my question is when is enough, enough?

  • unitedwestood

    This wasn’t in reply to anyone …. so it ended up here. I canceled a reply and meant to do a stand alone. Please forgive me not getting it in the right place.

  • http://www.planettron.com NickDeringer

    Not sure why Eirck is missing this??

  • Locke

    Is this a glitch at RedState, or the curse of blindness on the computers of wrong-believers, or a Cage-Warhol style message technique that is too subtle for me, or something else?

  • bobguzzardi

    I do not understand how Big Spender Big Borrower Rick Santorum gets this traction. It makes no sense. Did Rick Santorum fund these groups with his “faith based initiative”? Are Bush operatives undermining Rick Perry?

    I do not understand why Rick Perry doesn’t get more support from what seems to be a natural constituency.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    .

  • paladin1

    commentary and one which reflects many of my personal feelings as well. I fear that the Christian conservative movement is suffering from a lack of political astuteness that, even more so than in 2008, foils the best hope we have had in years for a real conservative Christian nominee. I am afraid we, as a nation, are all but lost now; sooner if Obama wins and only a little later if Romney does (if he has a chance).

  • aeaeren

    don’t read into this I am not for violent conflict, Ron Paul ect. I am truly concerned with what is going to happen in the future. We are headed to either a Revolution or a Civil War because I just can’t imagine a Nazi or Communist type of take over and the more the Leadership keeps going down it’s pathway the more disent they sow until we reach the boiling point and things explode.

  • janeway

    Most of your comments about MY church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, are completely incorrect and a bunch of lies obviously you choose just to believe them. Don’t like the Church for real doctrinial differences that is understandable but just making up a bunch of stuff put out by excommunicated ex- members isn’t very nice but down right silly. Hey, there is plenty to argue about without arguing about non existant beliefs. You must have watched the flim the Godmakers, and actually believed it. I watched that movie “Angels and Demons” but I certainly didn’t believe that was the reality of the Catholic church or that other movie about Jesus marrying Mary Magnalene and having decendents. Gross.Please, God gave you a brain, he expects you to use it or just do not vote as no telling how many other crazy things you believe but people on Redstate certainly seem to have an agenda. So far, you like no one.

  • avgjo

    Your comment about ignorance among preachers is exactly right.

    I’ve gone to evangelical churches my entire life. I’ve seen the general education level drop. Fewer and fewer are opting for any higher education, instead choosing to go to unaccredited Bible schools to start ‘ministries’, of which from what I’ve seen, over 90% fizzle out within a short period. The mentality seems to be one of cloistering, let’s just hang out with other Christians and hide from the world ’til Jesus comes back.

    I believe He’s coming back. I believe fellowship with brothers and sisters in Christ is good. But I also believe as Christians, we’re required to engage the world as we can. The prior generation (Focus on the Family, etc) failed miserably because of ineptitude, laziness, lack of discipline and lack of priorities. I don’t know if we can pick up the slack they left us. The current generation of young pastors (my age and a bit older) are useless as a group. compromising on every issue from ‘gay’ rights to various false doctrines. They are also glaringly ignorant and sloppy in their thinking. What bothers me most is that I don’t see unity or a plan among those Christians who recognize the problem. Neither do I see them trying to develop these.

  • lineholder

    and I’m a social Conservative at that!

    The situation pertaining to our economy is very weak. What we’ve seen from Obama during his three years in office so far has been restrained socialism. What we will see if he wins a second term will be unfettered socialism. It will have an even greater destructive influence on our economy than the last three years have had. Demands for government to act for the sake of the “common good” and “general welfare” will grow. The left will gladly jump at the chance to impose their own ideology over the Constitution of the United States. The freedoms and liberties we still have remaining to us will be lost.

    The leaders of the Republican Party seem to have neither the will or the fortitude to speak the truth and to stand strongly behind a vision that will protect and preserve the foundation on which this nation was established.

    If Obama wins in Nov, it will be seen as two things. (1) A total no-confidence vote in Republicans and (2) a mandate to support his plan for fundamentally transforming America

    Here we have a group of leaders whose influence could have and probably should have been willing to look at the situation as a whole and to set social issues aside for the time being in deciding who to endorse. They chose not to do so???

    Pardon my sarcasm here….I’m no genius, but even I have more common sense than that.

  • Locke

    point, and I have not found a point of entry to the no doubt voluminous discussions of the lipstick ref.

  • chuckwagon2u

    The Democratic Political machine has pulled together groups of divergent ideas, if left alone would not make a dent in the political process, to steam roll the Republicans. Christians are so unorganized and stiff in each denominations theology they cannot find unity to back anyone. This campaign is not about social issues. It is about economics and the constitution and how the country will be governed .
    I have listened to Christians who honestly believe they should not participate in the Political process at any level so there will not be adequate leadership in local,State and Nation Governance.
    As I read scripture I understand Christains are to be active in all areas of life and especially in Government.
    Unfortunately the Republicans are not that much different from the Democrats in a desire for a strong Central Government. I got the impression from the last pitiful election the Republican Elite want nothing to do with the Evangicals and the same applies today..

  • geotan

    Pride goes before a fall and it seems that many of the Evangelical’s at that meeting you attended fell flat on their faces. It is disingenuous of Erick to claim that Mormonism is “not a factor” with the religious Evangelical meeting behind Romney’s ascent to the nomination. Your pride in admitting that your bigotry is a factor is blinding you to this fact. When Christians meet to conspire against a “non-Christian” then I take that as a religiously motivated test to block the “non-Christian cult member Mitt Romney. We are not electing the Pastor of America but the President. We all are well aware of the inconsistencies and Real Politik of Mitt Romney and I’ll give you that as a legitimate concern of yours. However, when I have heard hundreds of Christians and Evangelicals with my own ears say they will “never vote for a Mormon” then you are either a liar or blind and I prefer to believe blindness caused by pride in admitting your religious bias.

  • sharp

    Does anyone at RS actually have contact with Perry?
    Can we be confident that he will stay in the race?
    I’m still mad at Thompson for quitting too early.

  • http://www.timothy-bladel.com/ center77

    and with Huntsman out, Romney is decidedly better than Newt or Santorum. About the Mormon bias, of course there are evangelicals that don’t want a Mormon, and that does not make them bigots. There are mormons who don’t want a atheist in office, and that is not bigotry either. Huntsman was always going to move to the center to support Romney, and It appears his brief flirt with conservatism was for show, who cares. He was never warmly reviewed by the party.

    Newt, well now he is in a lot of trouble, now he is viewed as running the most negative campaign. Perry cannot get conservatives to wake up from their media induced slumber, but he very well may be the last real antiRomney standing.

    I for one would like to see it come down to Perry against Romney, but it looks like the party is moving towards the center, by now most people know who the candidates really are. It’s amusing to watch half the party trip over itself why the other have moves the chess prices brilliantly.

    I must say, maybe the establishment deserves to win. Erik is right, the evangelicals and others right groups have mucked this up over and over again.

  • supergirl2911

    Call (803) 741-5409 or email chandlerhudson@rickperry.org

  • circlegranch

    and I stuck my neck out with this same issue before the Iowa caucus. Sarah Palin was repeatedly maligned for running for VP when she has a houseful of kids. Alot of voters, women especially, expressed the disdain they had for a mom that believed it was o.k. to turn over the lion’s share of raising her kids to her husband or other caregivers, especially with a teenage daughter about to give birth out of wedlock and a her youngest being a little boy requiring as much time and love from his mother as he can get. Gov. Palin got hit on this over and over, and now enter Rick Santorum; the father of a large family, his youngest child having a poor prognosis for a long and healthy life.

    What’s the difference? He is running pretty much as Super Dad—according to him, no other candidate’s heart is a pure and Christ-like as his. No other candidate knows nearly as much about setting a good example as a father and being a great parent, according to him and now the elitist, ruling class of the evangelical voting block. How does he justify all of that against wanting the most time-consuming position in the world? Who will be the father figure in his kids’ lives when he’s off on extended trips oversees on official business? Maybe he’s in essence actually running s stealth campaign as Romney’s VP after all.

    Whichever candidate in the GOP wins the presidency, there’s going to be little time to ‘snuggle up together and watch the football games’ as Santorum claimed at the last debate when asked if not there at the debate, what would he be doing with his Sat. night. The work ahead will require 100 hours a week at least of his time and thought. He will not be able to set his schedule around his family. His family will go wanting for his attention; that’s an established fact for all our prior presidents.

    The contrast of Santorum’s getting a pass for having a large, young family and the onslaught of attacks Palin got for the same issue is highly hypocritical.

  • lineholder

    on the lack of validity pertaining to any type of religion, why not just simply be honest in saying so rather than generating this type of meaningless, empty, and remarkably poor attempt at being sardonic?

  • kipling

    Let me begin by stating that I do not agree with the vote. As a social conservative and an evangelical, I do not support Rick Santorum. I am a Rick Perry supporter. However, with that being said, some of the comments about the vote of the evangelical leadership is over the top and demonstrate a profound arrogance on the part of the writers. Below are a few examples.

    One commentator claimed that these leaders were led to endorse Rick Santorum out of worldly wisdom and were not led by the Holy Spirit. The commentator then went on to state that obviously the Holy Spirit would endorse someone else. It is rather bold to claim to speak for the Holy Spirit outside the bounds of Scripture.

    Another commentator claimed that these evangelical leaders had stepped outside their calling. He then went on to define what their calling was and how they had failed to honor that calling. Once again, it is rather arrogant to speak about another’s calling and to stand in the position of God in defining another’s call.

    There are legitimate reasons to criticize the decision of the evangelical leaders to endorse Santorum. It is not legitimate to call into question their integrity, their commitment to Scripture, their source of guidance, or even their calling.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Even bringing it up to defend against bigotry is bad. Not to put too fine a point on it, but as recently as 35 years ago, Mormonism held some jaw-droppingly anti-black, racist beliefs, and we’re presently running against the first black president. I know Mitt wasn’t party to them, but this is every bit as bad as Jermiah Wright.

  • nepanyrush

    You state that “At this point, a vote for Santorum really does help Mitt Romney.” The same could be said in spades for a vote for Gingrich or Perry.

    Personally, in my bones, I do not believe Gingrich could win a general election. I have been around a long time and remember well all the negatives of Gingrich. For a while, I supported him in this election because I bought into the view that he was a new person, having adopted Catholicism. And he gave the impression of a new person. But as soon as the Iowa vote went down, the old, terribly flawed Gingrich showed up and I realized he is the same mess that he was when he got booted out of his speakership. In addition, my own daughter, a conservative, said he is the one person she could not vote for because of his cheating on two wives. I am sure a lot of women feel the same way. Gingrich could win a debate with Obama but would lose in a landslide. He is a ethical mess.

    Perry is not worth discussing. He has no chance whatsoever. He spend 5 million in Iowa and came in 5th and got 1700 votes out of 240,000 in NH and is now last in SC. He is clearly only helping Romney.

    Santorum has beat Gingrich in Iowa (by a lot) and in New Hampshire (by very little) and leads Gingrich both nationally and in SC. He twice won statewide office in a Democratic State. Gingrich has never won any election outside of a conservative congressional district. Santorum has beat 3 democratic incumbents in democratic electorates.

    Santorum is far, far more electable nationally than Gingrich. However, because Perry and Gingrich refuse to give up,despite self-destructing over Bain and more, the vote will continue to be split. Santorum is a clear choice for the Evangelicals, as he is the most electable person reflecting their values.

  • unitedwestood

    Who do you see staning there? Nobody? That’s right, that’s why he’s in a black out. There is NObody behind a curtain for him. Obviously the Pharisees aren’t standing their either. Endorsing Perry in today climate will get you NO attention what-so-ever! No man behind the curtain, no traction!

  • acat

    call out the obvious poor political choice here?

    My problem is not with any group engaging in politics, it is with this particular group making fools of themselves along the way.

    Becker nailed it upthread, the problem isn’t the definition of “Evangelical” – or any of the sub-definitions you named – the problem is the understanding of “conservative” that’s far too narrow.

    Mew

  • lineholder

    But in regards to being the best candidate who will provide the kind of leadership this nation is in need of right now for economic reasons, do you still believe Santorum to be the best candidate?

    I do not. He has made it plain that he would have no restraint at all in establishing even more big-government social programs as a means of attempting to try to resolve the problems our nation is facing. These types of programs always end up being high-dollar items. Our national debt is greater than our GDP as it is, and we can’t afford the debts we already have.

  • romeg

    by Chris Wallace and was deeply disappointed by what I learned from the Senator. He is absolutely not concerned with whether a vote he casts is in support of Individual Liberty or the Constitution, which he is sworn to uphold and defend.

    Rather, he’s concerned with whether or not it comports with the views of ‘others’ to whom he appears to believe he owes greater allegiance. Two issues in particular reveal Mr. Santorum’s lack of commitment to individual liberty and property rights as well as his lack of commitment to containing the cost of government. Those are his position of Right to Work laws and Davis-Bacon.

    Regarding his vote against a national Right to Work law, he deferred to his state legislature arguing that, at the time, he represented “…the State of Pennsylvania…” and that it was up to the State to make that decision and not the Congress. This is absolutely the most disingenuous, lamest argument I’ve ever heard ANY candidate for office make for a position (s)he had previously taken.

    In the first place, since the adoption of the 17th Amendment, Senators do not represent “The State” from which they hail. They represent THE PEOPLE of their home state. This is, perhaps, the most unfortunate aspect of that insult to the Constitution and without it Mr. Santorum might not have been placed in a position where he would have to choose between the perceived wishes of the PA Legislature and the Governor and those of the People of PA. But it is what it is. Secondly, the First Amendment unequivocally supports the right to free association, something that Closed Shop Laws utterly and completely abridge, along with the property rights of the owners of those businesses afflicted with union representation of their employees.

    So, on the basis of this vote alone and his defense of it, he is unworthy of support by true liberty loving conservatives for the nomination as our candidate for President.

    Adding insult to injury, he, again, stubbornly refused to acknowledge his error in supporting Davis-Bacon, a particularly onerous bit of legislation that is nothing but a sop to big labor.

    It matters not one whit to me that there are a lot of union members in PA that vote. The vote almost exclusively for Democrats. If Mr. Santorum is so desperate for Democrat votes, he should become a Democrat.

    None of the foregoing should be taken to imply that I am unaware of his support for the despicable Arlen Specter who actually DID revert to his true nature and become a Democrat.

    But I find, in Mr. Santorum, a candidate that is no more reliable a Conservative than his chief rival, Mitt Romney. Romney’s advantage is that at least he understands business and making a profit and what is required to make that happen.

    For me, for now, it still comes down Newt and Rick Perry, neither of whom are perfect but both of whom are willing to acknowledge that they have made mistakes and own them rather than trying to defend them.

    But, let me make it clear, If Romney or Santorum or any combination thereof becomes the nominee, I will support, campaign and vote for him. OMG Obama Must Go.

  • http://www.democratsforsale.blogspot.com soonermom

    Your reply was correct it came from the elitist Rockefeller Republican group led by Bush 41. Same group who gave us Bob Dole. I am tired of this entitlement approach and using every means necessary including lying, cheating, and stealing votes in some areas to make sure the establishment candidate is our nominee.

    I will not hold my nose again and vote for another establishment candidate. I don’t like Romney because he is a liberal. No one seems to mention he joined a group of liberals in 2007 to try and defeat the Alito nomination which tell conservatives he is only conservative for votes and will go left as President carrying on the same monetary policy we have today.

    As some are calling him — he is Obama lite. He will never get my vote or those votes of many people I know.

    Is this going to put a big hole in the Republican Party? It very easily could if the right person came along because there is a whole group including some Big Government Republicans who want us out of the Party because we won’t sit down and shut up!

    Conservatives blew this one and if we are not careful 2016 will come and you will be looking at Jeb Bush who Bush 43 and his wife wanted to run this time. The man who said no to off shore drilling and allowed the Chinese to come into Cuba and take our oil in offshore lateral drilling. The Bush Family is not about energy independence. Jeb he is being set up to run in 2016 as Romney gets defeated big time in 2012 IMHO.

  • therightman

    We are still having a ‘race’ because Perry and Gingrich are still running. Should they drop out today, Romney will declare victory tomorrow.

    Pray tell, what resources and organization has Santorum got to match Romney after SC? Notice the evangelicals want Perry and/or Gingrich to drop out before SC? It is because after SC, Santorum fades into an afterthought. He will most likely be crushed in a majority of the other states but I guess he wants to hang on just to obtain bragging rights as the last Not-Romney standing and probably hopes to win a VP slot.

    Never going to happen.

    Perry and/or Gingrich have vastly better chances against Romney in the long run when all the states are factored in.

  • kipling

    First, the Evangelical Leadership lead by influence and their ability to persuade fellow evangelicals. They are not the final authority. For evangelicals, Scripture is the final authority and Protestants believe in an individuals ability to interpret Scripture and apply it on their own with the help of the Holy Spirit. The influence, and hence the leadership, of the evangelical movement depends heavily on whether or not evangelicals follow the leadership. There is nothing to compel followers.

    For example, I respect James Dobson and have several of his books. He is an authority on family issues. However, I will decide who I vote for in line with my own prayer life and Scripture.

    Second, there is a generation gap on the national level of the evangelical movement. One reason is that the evangelical movement has become more dispersed and localized. Instead of attacking all the issues at the federal level, evangelicals have focused on the state and local governments. Surely, this is not a bad thing. [And no I am not calling you Shirley.]

    Third, and this goes back to the first point, who determined that these attendees were the leadership of the evangelical movement. No one voted for their leadership and no one is bound by their endorsement. The weakness in influence leadership is that people feel free to disagree and either accept or reject that influence based on personal decisions. Splits in the evangelical movement started from the beginning with Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, etc. The evangelical movement does not speak with one voice, especially on an issue that is not defined in Scripture.

    Fourth, the endorsement hurts Rick Perry. It does not help Rick Santorum. I think in the next few days, many of these leaders will have to step forward and clarify how they voted and why. They will have to justify their “leadership” if they want to be followed.

  • lineholder

    If that’s what you’re referring to, I wholeheartedly agree. You know that I’m a staunch advocate for social Conservatism, even though my viewpoint may be somewhat different…I’m not a single issue social Conservative.

    But I find it stunning in this case that Evangelical leaders, who should know better than most what is required to be a “good steward” where finances are concerned, would support someone who promotes big-government, high-dollar solutions when our economy is so weak.

    On that point, I’ll question their judgment until the cows come home, and see no reason to do otherwise.

  • Bill S

    Spot on on all points. One of the most sane responses to this incident that I’ve seen. Well said.

  • jakeofalltrades

    The Ruach Ha-Kodesh is beyond comprehension; He cannot be reasonably cited in this debate.

  • wild4freedom

    What everybody thinks, Christian or not who has a passing knowledge of the Mormon fauth.

  • http://www.changeforrickperry.org louisianapatriette

    Perry won’t drop out before SC and he may even do better than Santorum on Saturday. The evangelicals will have egg on their faces if that’s the case.

    If Santorum does poorly in SC I predict he’ll drop out before Florida. You’re right, he doesn’t have the money to compete in Florida, while Perry still has money in the bank plus that gargantuan SuperPac everyone seems to conveniently forget.

    (BTW, did anyone notice this…Huntsman dropped out last night…Bachmann dropped out day after Iowa…they were both told by a Certain Someone to drop out…while the same Certain Someone said Perry should STAY IN. I say the Mama Grizzly strikes again ;) )

  • citizenkh

    where you will see. Click on the links supplied.

  • teaanyone

    Throighout these postings one theme prevails; (how can a Christian vote for a non-christian, even if he appears to be the only hope for defeating Obama and the chicago mob who have taken over the reins of our government and fully intend t o destroy our way of life?
    I have been a minister (Baptist) for aimost 30 years and I have never been in a quandry about who to vote for. here’s the reasobn; We live in a fallen world and until Jesus returns we will contend with the forces of darkness. God did not leave us defenseless. He promises that” Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world”, referring to the Holy spirit.Then he tells us that we are more than conquerors through prayer. this is why my choice is simple; When nations turn from God, He sends them evil rulers. but He makes it clear that the fate of that nation is in the hands of born-again Christians.iN2CHRON. 7;14 God tells us that “If my people who are called by my name will repent and seek my face and pray, I will hear from heaven and forgive their sins and heal their land.”If America falls, Christuans are as guilty as the heathen for its demise. Who is the best candidate? The Christian, always. “but he can’t beat Obama!” you say. Fiollow God’s instr uctios and let him worry about it.
    THE BOTTOM LINE; Winston Churchill said “God still rules in the affaiis of men”.If yiu don’t believe that, and fail to intercede for America, you have failed God and your country. Forget strategy. forget mormonism, paganism, and all the other “isms’. Relax! ETrust God, and `PRAY1

  • Common_Cents

    to consolidate the field. There is plenty of splintered support and plenty of folks on the sideline just waiting for a catalyst to come out for Gingrich. There is a lot of pent up support for Newt, but waiting for others to make the first move.

    Something does need to happen this week, not so much for electoral delegate reasons but for organization, money, momentum.

    This Santorum endorsement is damaging, just enough to give him a boost to keep him in the game.

    Now is Perry’s chance to make a difference in endorsing Newt and start the ball rolling for Gingrich. The Tea Party has a chance to do the same, are they endorsing this week? Sarah Palin could be the one to do it by endorsing Gingrich.

    Gingrich would then have 2 debates to go head to head with Romney in FL Jan 23,26 and consolidate organizations. After those, there isn’t a debate for nearly a month. Gingrich has to do well at tonight’s debate and somebody has to step up to make a hard decision to get out, to endorse or there is little chance for anyone to have the necessary firepower to take on Romney in FL and beyond.

    This meeting shows how easy it is for people to roll over for Romney at this point. Something needs to happen in the next couple days. However, Gingrich would be smart in pointing out tonight and in his campaign that non romney support is more than romney support and there is a great opportunity right now. If conservatives make a decision and we consolidate now, we have more support between us than Romney has. It would be a positive message and give people a reason to get off their duff and off the fence.

    But there needs to be a catalyst, what that is, who knows. Tonight’s debate is probably the most critical debate we’ll have in the season.

  • kipling

    I appreciate your kind words.

  • romansdaughter

    Dr. Bob and Guzzardi could tell you a lot about Santorum as they are from Pennsylvania and believe me he is not fiscally conservative. I think Santorum knows he will not be President but is hoping Mitt will let him be VP…kind of like Bachmann was hoping. But I have news for Santorum that isn’t going to happen. Mitt is going to have RS as VP. I don’t know what the “supposedly evangelical Christians” were thinking endorsing Santorum, although I hear that a lot of them agreed but were disgruntled and saying they weren’t endorsing and could change their minds. Grief! My thoughts “Unless God was in on the plans” then they should have just kept their mouths shut. It doesn’t sound like much of their meetings was with God in mind. Just all politics.

  • kipling

    “Rick Perry had a lot of supporters in the crowd, but too few who thought he could win and many who want him to get out and endorse Gingrich or possibly Santorum before South Carolina votes. His advocate, a friend, was not as well prepared as the others, but many in the crowd did speak up for him.”

    Perry has better social conservative and fiscal conservative credentials than Santorum. The issue, according to EE, was too few thought he was electable.

    This is not a case of a single issue – abortion, etc, – dominating the selection process.

    I disagree with the reasoning and think Santorum is unelectable but let us not make this into a social v. fiscal conservative contest when it is clearly not.

  • blarman

    Everyone is more than willing to criticize all the candidates and only look at why each one isn’t perfect.

    HELLO, PEOPLE!!! NOONE IS PERFECT!

    Mitt Romney supported government healthcare.
    Ron Paul thinks we should ignore all other nations – including Israel.
    Newt Gingrich thinks a balanced budget plan is “right-wing social engineering” and is a serial adulterer.
    Rick Santorum is more than willing to expand the size of government.

    Good grief! Let’s focus on the ONE thing that the country needs right now from a PRESIDENT: a sound fiscal policy that will get this country back on solid economic ground. IGNORE EVERYTHING ELSE FOR THE TIME BEING.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    reality: Perry has not made the case for himself thru inept debates and vulture capitalism slurs

    see here

    http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2012/01/16/2440/

  • avagreen

    Real good question!

  • lizzie

    DNC will be running against “Vulture Capitalism” and on “protecting women’s reproductive rights”.
    If Ron Paul gets too much influence, except a lesson on why a currency requires a Central Bank (Ridley Scott started that with Sunday night’s episode of “The Good Wife” on CBS)

    The Democrats will destroy the GOP if it is Romney or Santorum, or worse, a joint ticket with Ron Paul’s influence on the platform.

    For those who question Gingrich as Churchill – well, Churchill had far more baggage than Gingrich, but, Churchill’s voice changed history at the moment of true crisis.

    Only Gingrich or Perry can beat Obama. Clear contrast, different voices.

    Yes, I came online to check weather forecast, got distracted by implication of 1) Huntsman’s disengenous endorsement of Romney, 2) Bolton’s attack on Ron Paul (Bolton = Bush 43, not yet a time for anyone to re-incarnate as Bush43), and 3) wondering why Perry did not yet report his fundraising for 4Q2011, to get a sense if he really can run anything but an insurgency in Florida. which is ok with me as long as he does not come in fifth in SC and/or Gingrich can keep Romney below a 35% win in SC.

    Mitch Daniels was prescient in that 2012 is about the debt, repeal of PPACA aka Obamacare, and NOT about “social issues”.

    I can not cite the exact poll that showed it is independents and democrats who have a big problem with Mormonism, but ever since the Commentary pundits tried to make anti-Mormom bigotry as Romney’s single biggest problem, I have been shaking myhead in in disbelief at how little money it takes to buy the pundits.

  • lizzie

    DNC will be running against “Vulture Capitalism” and on “protecting women’s reproductive rights”.
    If Ron Paul gets too much influence, except a lesson on why a currency requires a Central Bank (Ridley Scott started that with Sunday night’s episode of “The Good Wife” on CBS)

    The Democrats will destroy the GOP if it is Romney or Santorum, or worse, a joint ticket with Ron Paul’s influence on the platform.

    For those who question Gingrich as Churchill – well, Churchill had far more baggage than Gingrich, but, Churchill’s voice changed history at the moment of true crisis.

    Only Gingrich or Perry can beat Obama. Clear contrast, different voices.

    Yes, I came online to check weather forecast, got distracted by implication of 1) Huntsman’s disengenous endorsement of Romney, 2) Bolton’s attack on Ron Paul (Bolton = Bush 43, not yet a time for anyone to re-incarnate as Bush43), and 3) wondering why Perry did not yet report his fundraising for 4Q2011, to get a sense if he really can run anything but an insurgency in Florida. which is ok with me as long as he does not come in fifth in SC and/or Gingrich can keep Romney below a 35% win in SC.

    Mitch Daniels was prescient in that 2012 is about the debt, repeal of PPACA aka Obamacare, and NOT about “social issues”.

    I can not cite the exact poll that showed it is independents and democrats who have a big problem with Mormonism, but ever since the Commentary pundits tried to make anti-Mormom bigotry as Romney’s single biggest problem, I have been shaking myhead in in disbelief at how little money it takes to buy the pundits.

  • 4suramcan

    Confusion(of what the Bible teaches) and hypocrites(people acting like they understand what the Bible teaches)
    Confusion; the devils biggest weapon
    Hypocrites; the devils biggest users of that weapon

  • therightman

    Perry and Gingrich are not the same. Perry is a small Govt. conservative, Gingrich (and Santorum) are big Govt. conservatives.

    I wouldn’t mind Perry dropping out to favor another candidate if there was such a candidate. Unfortunately there is not. Perry is the only small Govt. conservative left in the race.

    Frankly, if Perry were to drop out, small Govt. conservatives/tea partiers will have lost this round. Unfortunately, many don’t see it. They will eventually see it – the media will make sure of that – but it will be too late.

  • acat

    I do not think it can be said loudly enough.

    I haven’t had enough coffee to do this justice, but .. borrowing from Sun Tzu, D.C. appears, to this outsider cat, a poor choice of battleground for as large and widespread a group as Evangelicals.

    Evangelicals attempting to *cause* change via D.C. are completely missing the lesson of Thermopylae* – D.C. is the bridge, and the Dems are very capable of defending it.

    It appears, to me, that the American tendency to identify with the underdog has led Evangelicals astray here. Taking the fight to the Statehouses is a much better use of Evangelical strength.

    Why am I saying this when I am not one of you? Because I agree with your goal of ending abortion. My reasons are different, I’m quite up front about that, but … on this we have the same goal and should be able to make common cause.

    Mew

  • ombd

    … for the Evangelicals. But presumably they realize that all of the above for the GOP will represent their interests a lot better than the current inhabitant of 1600. If any more proof is needed, his latest religious fiasco from last week should do the trick … http://bit.ly/qVdDUt

  • AceInTX

    Pride goeth before destruction, and a HAUGHTY spirite before the fall

    As far as bigotry goes, the bigotry is coming from the Willard “The Rat” Camp.

    Are their evangelicals who won’t vote for a Mormon? Undoubtedly, But they aren’t the majority of evangelicals…yet the Romney crowd has insisted on painting ALL evangelicals as Anti Mormon bigots. They have forced arguments on the evangelical community on doctrinal issues that should never have been forced and demanded that evangelicals make compromises on issues of doctrine lest he and his sycophants paint them with the broad brush of bigotry….and this last is the last straw for me.

    When Team Romney concluded the pitch (read from an iPad seemingly without a passionate delivery) with an admonishment to not be an anti-Mormon bigot, it was game over. Several of the attendees felt like the Romney campaign was almost implying that they?d win without evangelicals and would expect everyone to line up when it was over even without Romney reaching out.

    Good luck with that.

    There are exponentially more in the evangelical community that could and would be natural allies with a committed and fundamentalist Mormon running for President than there are who would not vote for a Mormon under any circumstance…Many of them will likely still vote for Romney over Obama if the choice comes to that….so why does the Romney crowd insist on poisoning the well?

    Yet they do…

    For all you Romneybots out there…why don’t you try making an affirmative argument why evangelicals should consider a vote for Romney instead of trashing anyone and everyone as anti Mormon Bigots?

    The answer is…you can’t make an affirmative argument for Romney because no one can determine and make a credible claim as to what her would do as president because the man has never held a consistent belief or followed a consistent path on anything in his life. and it has nothing to do with what his religion is….he is a fraud, an opportunist and I’ll make the charge…he’s and anti evangelical/anti christian bigot and so are his lackeys.

  • avagreen

    Before I could reply, the comments were gone!
    I tire of being told why I’m someone.
    Obama because he’s black.
    Romney because he’s Mormon.

    Gosh! Why don’t I just lift the lid on my head and these people can pour into it anything they want me to think as apparently, I’m not capable and don’t know my own reasons for thinking whatever I think.

    If I don’t agree with these folks, I’m either a “racist” or “anti-Mormon”…….hate speech!

  • avagreen

    ehtu

  • cbartlett

    Guess I’m too new to this process. Is there a secret code or something else to read this blank space?

  • AceInTX

    z

  • acat

    Yes, Perry has not made the case, but a very small fraction of the vote has happened, and there’s a long break between Florida and Super Tuesday.

    The calls for Perry to get out and endorse, especially those calling for him to endorse Santorum, are wrong-headed *at this time*.

    Mew

  • therightman

    *Sigh*

    I always see these comments pop out – that the goal is to beat Obama in Nov. 2012.

    No! The goal is to beat the ideology that Obama espouses that big Govt. is the solution and not the problem. And that is why it is important who we wish to replace Obama with. The only small Govt. candidate left in the GOP race is Rick Perry. Only he gets it with respect to Govt.

    It is fine to hope that a President Romney can be forced to the right by a Republican Congress but I doubt it where such a Congress will be led by other big Govt. proponents like Boehner and McConnell.

    Hence my conclusion in an earlier comment that should Perry lose or drop out, small Govt. conservatives/tea partiers will have lost this round.

  • bzip

    Activists say pro-Santorum vote was rigged

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jan/16/activists-say-pro-santorum-vote-was-rigged/
    “?My view is that the vote was manipulated,? said a prominent social conservative who asked not to be named.”
    —-
    Something tells me that this entire family leader and its vote is going to go down in flames and largely be look upon as a joke and filled with corruption.

    Boy, they just messed it up. Santorum has no chance after SC but he sure will spoil it for Perry and perhaps Newt as well.

    When are these religious people going to keep their nose out of politics.

  • annie54

    I’ve been placing my assigned 200 calls for Perry. All I’m getting in response are “undecided” or “Perry”. I’ve talked with professionals who are 100% Perry.

    I’ve been talking with Jason Smith via e-mail who is in charge of the phone bank. His e-mail address is jasonsmith@rickperry.org. He’s also on twitter@TexasSmitty12. I have his mobile as well as direct number.

    There are many many other addresses we can use. I receive communication from at least 2 per day.

  • barleycorn

    “Newt Gingrich thinks a balanced budget plan is “right-wing social engineering” ”

    (sigh)

    No he doesn’t. Check your facts instead of repeating falsehoods. He never called the Ryan Plan “right-wing social engineering” and he darn sure never called a “balanced budget plan” “right-wing social engineering”.

  • sunshinek67

    sending me information via Twitter on Tony Perkins

    Louisiana GOP Rep. Anh “Joseph” Cao is still smarting over the successful efforts of a leading lobby of the Christian right to defeat him in last week’s election, a loss that denied Republicans a chance to hold a traditionally Democratic seat and ensure a second term for the first Vietnamese-American in Congress.

    While the defeat was easily overlooked in the Republicans’ euphoria after their sweep of the House, Cao remains angry at Tony Perkins and the Family Research Council for launching a last-minute radio ad against him, and for effectively fragging a fellow pro-lifer who is a former Jesuit seminarian and was once considered a model for a more diverse Republican Party.

    “For a conservative Christian organization to attack a Republican pro-life candidate in a general election is as ignorant as it is inexcusable,” Cao told Warren Throckmorton, an evangelical Protestant psychologist and author.”

    I stand by my earlier comments on Tony Perkins and relationship with David Dukes. Regardless of whether or not there is impropriety, bad optics. If he had, say, endorsed Governor Perry….see the headline there?

    “Furthermore, while managing Republican state representative Louis E. “Woody” Jenkins’ 1996 campaign for the U.S. Senate, Perkins paid $82,500 to use former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke’s phone bank for Jenkins’ run-off election with Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-LA). Jenkins was later fined $3,000 for “knowingly and willfully fil[ing] false disclosure reports showing Courtney Communications as the vendor.” According to a July 24, 2002, Times-Picayune article, Perkins “signed the $82,500 contract for the Duke phone bank,” maintained by a company called Impact Mail Ltd., in the fall of 1996, and “said Tuesday that he didn’t find out ‘the complete Duke connection’ until after the 1996 Senate campaign.”

    And now, there is corruption being alleged in the evangelical vote reported here:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jan/16/activists-say-pro-santorum-vote-was-rigged/

    I personally think Newt Gingrich won that evangelical vote. As a Christian, I believe in redemption and success stories of those that have overcome personal struggles in life. Too bad the evangelical “leaders” didn’t think so.

  • sunshinek67

    found here: http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/11/12/louisianas-joseph-cao-calls-christian-group-ignorant-for-atta/

  • Change Jar Conservative

    We really need a governor which is why Romney has been my #3 behind Huntsman and Perry, but Perry screwed things up so badly that we’re going to get Romney.

    Gingrich.

    Sigh, am I really left having to help Gingrich?

    Maybe we make it to a brokered convention, but who are we going to find to unite the Romneys, Pauls, Santorums, and Gingriches behind.

    Well, the Paul’s won’t get behind anyone. The Santorums might get behind a Rubio VP.

    The Gingriches would probably go for Jindal and maybe Christie even with his Romney ties.

  • acat

    “Support the most conservative candidate who can win in the general”, eh?

    Mew

  • jakeofalltrades

    it shouldn’t have been racist against blacks and Native Americans for over a century, Note that I am talking about the religion, not the practitioners.

    Mormonism can be criticized on the same basis as Jeremiah Wright’s church. Even if it flip-flopped in the 1970′s and decided not to be racist anymore, Mitt was still a member before then.

    This will come up in the general btw,

  • 4suramcan

    It will be thru the prayers of the true saints, and not anything that America has done to deserve it.
    while reading your print, circle, this came to mind. Eph. 6-12; for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers,against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spititual wickedness in high places.

  • teaanyone

    Rick Perry is a Christian in a fallen world. He is without a doubt the most capable candidate, but there are not enough christians willing to forsake carnal, earthy, sensual means and trust God to save our nation and give us Perry for president. Politos will not save America. Strategy will not save America from it’s impending doom. America has been sent evil rulers because it has turned it’s back on almighty God. The very idea of someone who professes to be “born-again” and is so faithless they would vote for a pagan mormon for leader of the free world is sickening. God won’t fail us if we intercede for this fallen nation, but sinfu man will. We deserve what we have if we fail to trust almighty God.

  • acat

    (Windows NT)

  • acat

    Usually, when the posts are blanked like that, it indicates the user has been more inflammatory than the average troll.

    Mew

  • avagreen

    and asked how to get on the phonebank. Was told to write joseromano@rickperry.org.

    Have written: waiting for reply.

  • lineholder

    group of Evangelical leaders has put themselves in a position of emphasizing social issues over fiscal issues. There is no other way to view it. If Santorum was a fiscal Conservative, then we could say otherwise. He is not. He is fiscally moderate at best (and leans liberal in some cases).

    So the example that has been set by this endorsement could easily become an influence that divides Conservatives, i.e. social vs. fiscal, rather than unites them.

  • citizenkh

    elsewhere to this article, Tony Perkins is far from the correct person to bridge the generation gap. He will be the suicide pill.

  • westcoastpatriette

    Anti-evangelical bigotry? What happened to his supposed friendship with Rick Perry? Is this blind devotion to a fellow Mormon? Oh, how dare I go there. To suggest that Mormons can be bigots.

  • citizenkh

    one and the same.

    k = Kermit, la = Louisiana.

  • kipling

    I think they failed to consider that Santorum has no national organization and little money. In their case, they failed to support the most conservative candidate and the most conservative candidate who can win the primary. We have not even gotten to the general yet.

  • romansdaughter

    I was so disappointed in the “evangelical Christians” silliness that I almost was physically sick. I get Focus on the Family weekly news and also news from Tony Perkins and just last week Tony was bragging about Rick Perry and Texas and the Supreme Court being in favor of Rick Perry’s Pro Life stance on woman having ultrasounds etc. So I have fired off a letter to him…asking what he is thinking when they pick Rick Santorum who isn’t fiscally conservative at all and is the least electable in my opinion of the candidates not counting Ron Paul. Anyhow back to your point, Mitt is never going to pick Santorum for his VP. That isn’t going to happen and “evangelical Christians” are totally delusional if they think so. By the way, I am from a Bible Church in Washington state not very big 1200-1500 people and my pastor emailed me and was pretty upset about the whole meeting. So no I don’t think all evangelicals are going to buy this stupidity.

  • acat

    By presenting an alternative to Wafflin’ Willard in New Hampshire, Huntsman drew support from the other anti-Romneys.

    Congrats, Jon – if we can get Willard into the White House, you’ll likely get your job as ambassador back.

    Mew

  • avagreen

    Thank you for your continued support. I have attached our Phone Bank Department who will be in touch shortly with call list for you.

    Best,

    Jose Romano

    Strike Force Coordinator

    Rick Perry for President

    www.RickPerry.org

  • acat

    I could understand this endorsement if Santorum were the only “Religious Right” candidate in the race – at that point it may make sense.

    As it sits, I must draw a similar conclusion – this makes no sense politically.

    Mew

  • znjs

    And the idea that his whole campaign was to get a job he already had and quit specifically to campaign doesn’t make any sense. He ran on the idea that there was a place for someone who wasn’t as hawkish as the other candidates but not as isolationist as RP, and that it would be better to try to work with rather then demonize the other side. I still think he was our best chance to beat Obama and get Washington working again.

  • onemovoter

    You mentioned everyone else and their perceived or real problems, but failed to mention Perry and any perceived problem with him. Perhaps there really isn’t anything wrong with Perry other than media types are out to keep him down.

    I hope that Perry is able to find the right way to overcome the media negativity about him and connect with people. Otherwise he won’t be able to finish out this race. Until that happens, I’m going to be sitting here depressed just like 2008 all over again.

    I actually hope Perry hires Erick Erickson to the political staff to direct his campaign. So far he’s been right on a great many things.

  • sunshinek67

    I’ve seen a Kermit haha

  • cbartlett

    There’s that stupid word again that Rush warned us about a few weeks ago. It seems like the main reason Erick reports here that Perry isn’t supported is the fear that he can’t be elected. I even hear that from Texans – “Awww, those people up north won’t vote for him – he sounds too hick and too much like Bush. He’s the best but we can’t get him elected”. My own mother – lifelong Texas conservative Republican for more than 60 years – even said “that’s what Fox News keeps telling everyone”. How many more elections are we going to allow the media and GOP Establishment to choose our candidate and continue to run this country int he ground? Perry is the only one in the field that has all of the conservative values – both social and fiscal – along with real governing experience to take on Obama. It is just incredible that people really, deep-down, could possibly believe that Romney is a better choice for this country. This report from Erick about evangelicals falling for the “electability” trap is disheartening.

  • acat

    Had Huntsman not been the ficon-acceptable anti-Romney in N.H., the role would have been filled by one of the other candidates.

    While I agree that it’s more likely Huntsman will get a better job, perhaps SecState, it’s quite clear that he – like Bachman – was in the role of a spoiler.

    Mew

  • kipling

    I still think we are jumping the gun with the social v. fiscal conservative issue. As EE stated, the gathering had strong supporters for all of the candidates with the possible exception of Romney. EE seems to imply that Perry would have done better and possibly won the endorsement if more had viewed him as electable. Perry is a consistent social and fiscal conservative.

    I hope the endorsement will not divide the Conservatives as it would lead to both fiscal and social conservatives losing. Santorum is the Huckabee of 2012.

    Please see my post below on “Evangelical Leadership.”

  • AceInTX

    I’m sick of Romney clowns starting their posts with this lie and not backing it up.

    Here’s your chance…site examples of what you are talking about

  • AceInTX

    i realized you can still read the rantings by highlighting…don’t bother reading them though….you miss nothing not \reading her rantings

  • acat

    Romney-bots or Willard-ites.

    Mew

  • barleycorn

    All moderators carry two blamsticks at all times (two in case one breaks).

    When posters are blammed their posts under-go a metamorphoses. Some times there is just white space. Sometimes there is a nice video. Sometimes…..?

    Its up to the individual mod I suppose but who really knows?

  • acat

    Comedy is in the eye of the beholder, after all.

    Mew

  • onemovoter

    Santorum got in Iowa that catapulted him to the top in the final week. Are we going to continually find that a candidate basically “bought” his way to a nomination?

    Granted I have absolutely no proof of either situation, other than what has been reported. I am just disgusted that so many people aren’t paying close attention to what’s going on before voting. No wonder this country is having the troubles we are facing.

    Arrgg!! #headdesk – repeatedly

  • AceInTX

    here I am demanding a Romneybot give an example of the bigotry he sees everywhere….and here you are providing an example.

    I’ll fight the fight with you when it comes to the theological points and what is wrong with Mormonism from a biblical as well as scientific perspective, But when it comes to elections…I’ll vote for an orthodox Jew, Catholic…or yes…a Mormon who shares my values and who’ll forward the cause of faith, family and community in this nation…

    I just don’t believe Romney fits that bill AT ALL!

  • kipling

    “When are these religious people going to keep their nose out of politics.”

    Seriously? They have as much right to organize themselves politically as anyone else.

    We usually agree but that statement goes a little far. Take issue with them if you like but deal with the substance not with their religious nature.

  • romans12n2

    The “antiMormon” excuse is just another attempt at deflecting from the fact that Romney is a Liberal. It is a tactic devised by the same people who issued “The Race Card”. The “Religion Card” is the gold care as the “Race Card” is the Platinum Card… Same issuer, different account level. They both carry the VISA/Liberal logo in the corner. I have been a Christian all my life. Even when I was younger and knew that I was lost and in the world sinning up a storm, my core beliefs were chiseled on my heart from when I was a small child in Sunday School. I have the same beliefs now that I had as a child. They were given to us in the unchanging Word of God before the creation of the Earth. Having established that, I have voted in every Presidential election since I turned 18. I have NEVER had the opportunity to vote for anyone whom I believed held my doctrinal beliefs. Not Bush, Not Reagan, Not Dole, Not Ross stinking Perot. If the Romney campaign knew anything at all about “Evangelical” Christians and were honest, they would know and admit that fndamentally we believe that Catholics are no more “Christians” than Mormons. Rick Santorum has been my favored candidate since he entered the race. Do I think he believes in Jesus and holds many of the same values as I do? YES. Just as I do Romney. Do I believe that he holds the exact same beliefs as I do? Absolutely NOT! God has used MANY people through the ages, who have been everything from Pagans to Muslims. We are not voting for a pastor or spiritual leader. We are voting for a representative to lead a union of free citizens in a fallen world or political dealings. Mitt Romney is NOT a Conservative period. And THAT is why he has no support from Evangelical Christians, NOT because he is a Mormon!

  • avagreen

    by several posters.
    http://www.redstate.com/quill67/2012/01/15/huntsman-to-drop-out-romney-is-in-deep-trouble/#comment-420

    Seems there are many hounds on the hunt this morning picking up the same scent.

  • cbartlett

    Ignorance among preachers is most defintely a problem and so is a lack of “real world” experience. My husband & I both work kind of behind the scenes in the finance area in our independent Christian congregation. We have discovered over the years that ministers who have actually worked somewhere outside of the church at some point in their life, as opposed to those who went straight from school into ministry jobsl, have a much more realistic view of the world. They are the only ones who at least approach the idea of taking on political issues. The rest of them most definitely follow the “hanf out with other Christians and hide from the world ’til Jeseus comes back” philosphy!! I believe we are in God’s hands and he will take care of us but I really don’t think God expects us to put our head in the sand and not fight for what is right. I’ll keep fighting for Perry until he decides he can’t anymore. Maybe, just maybe, SC and FL will wake some people up. He will make an incredibly strong president if he actually makes it through this uphill battle.

  • carolynr

    Before I go on about this…and yes I am very mad about this…and I am, for the record, Catholic…let me tell you where the real problem with the Republican Party is…Ron Paul…and that is the real splintering of the Party. As I have said before..right in front of God and country…this man is running a stealth third party run…and nobody gets it YET.

    Do these people hold themselves out to have “vision” of what divine destiny is? To listen to them in Church…they explain what we can’t understand…they interpret for us. OK…fine…I’ll keep an open mind…I don’t know everything. But I do know that they “explain the past, present and FUTURE, based on their view of who and what God is.

    This country is in trouble economically…and if we do not fix it, it will go via the European Union and the UK. Fact…our spending is now at 100% of GDP. So…like Perry said, “we need to grow ourselves out of this”. I think that we can all agree that the economy needs to be fixed and that THE ONLY PERSON that has the proof to show people is Governor Perry. Just a mere, tiny little point to these soothsayers. Santorum’s RECORD…SPEND!!!

    Not only do these people from Texas LIVE UNDER THE FRUITS of Perry’s Governance…they also know him to be a man of faith. Was “The Response” not enough for them as a demonstration of faith. Where is Rick Santorum on his demonstration…but I will get to that later. Is Perry pro-life or not? Did he defund Planned Parenthood or not? Is he still married to the same woman? But his stellar and I mean that word…stellar job creation not enough? Instead of getting behind a man that they KNOW has helped create jobs…a man they KNOW is pro-life. A man that put into law…DEFUNDING Planned Parenthood….they picked Santorum. Do they live in his state?

    So..if I were able to have some sway with these people…and yes…I am mad at the people that live and frequent a state where it is obvious that he is an evangelical by word and deed…I would ask this question. Why…oh why are you considering a man who backed a PRO-CHOICE candidate…yes believed in abortion…no holes barred instead of now Senator Toomey who is PRO-LIFE? You see…these soothsayers must be CONSISTENT…and when they are not..they show the world that they are all talk and no action. They have, for this moment in time become Perry’s Peter. They gave up their mantle for a man that does not consistently practice what he preaches.

    Concerning Santorum’s economic policies and voting record…they are disastrous. I hate to give credence to Obama’s constant mantra…but yes…GWB SPENT TOO MUCH OF OUR MONEY. So…who do these visionaries endorse…another George W. Bush. Hey maybe the Bushies and Rove had some sway? We have to stop spending. Not only that…this guy…via this dumb manufacturing plan…will have us do for the country what we do for Iowa…SUBSIDIZE. And who will we subsidize, via manufacturing…the bloated unions, their pensions and their bosses. Look at the state he comes from and look what he supported.

    And…yes..I did tweet Perkins and tell him how disappointed I was in their vote. No…I don’t regret it. I will not sit by and be silent because that is the same as endorsing their decision.

    When Perry talked too much on social issues…EE,,,you said he needed to get back to his economic record. Perry thought the people of Iowa were evangelicals. Well…yes they were…but not to the point that they would give up their ethanol subsidy.

    When the primary comes around to Georgia…I will vote for Perry. Why…BECAUSE I AM CONSISTENT. Will I vote for Romney…I guess I will seeing how I think Obama is the closest match to the Anti-Christ there is and the USA MIGHT last another ten years. that’s the difference between Romney and Obama…how long we last…not if we fall…that will happen because we FAILED TO LOOK AT THE RECORD. These people are as dumb as the nuts that voted for hope and change and never asked what it was.

  • porkandcheese

    +5

  • richardjones

    The problem may be that these gentlemen need to read their bibles in more depth.

    Standing on the platform of the Old Testament, Jesus gave the story of the Lord chastising a man who failed to invest his coins (and talents) wisely, even though he preserved what he had, and praised the one who was most industrious with his coins.

    Rick Santorum failed even to preserve what he had. He voted and co-sponsored legislation which contributed to our national deficit and created the crisis we now face today. One has the impression that if GW were a candidate this evangelical council would support him again! Rick Santorum never once offered a vision for the economic disaster we now face – unlike others, such as Ron Paul who has been warning us for years. Like GW, Rick Santorum clearly has neither the financial acumen, historical perspective, understanding, nor vision to resolve our nation’s problems – on any front!

    The only standing candidates with the cited attributes are Ron Paul and Newt Gingrich. Both would be praised by the Lord in Jesus? story ? Paul for his visionary (if not prophetic) warnings and votes, which have raised our critical issues to the platform, and Gingrich for actually sponsoring, advocating and passing financially and socially responsible legislation (which to his credit Santorum followed in one in at least one instance) during his tenure in the House. Rick Santorum, for his dismal record on economics – and sadly those who promoted him this past weekend, would be undoubtedly be chastised!

  • lineholder

    I saw you comment on Evangelical Leadership. It was well done! But even since their announcement has been made, there have been numerous comments here at RS, which is a Conservative site for both fiscal and social Conservatives, indicating just how much potential it has to be divisive. It has been those comments that caused me to reflect on this type of potential in the comments I made above.

    I daresay that these leaders meant well, but in the situation we are facing, where the need for positive strong leadership is so compelling, it probably would have been better if they had refrained from endorsing any single person at this time and made a simple statement reflecting the need for the most socially conservative, fiscally conservative candidate that the American people can rally behind to become the next leader for our nation.

    If they had approached it this way, it would at least have encouraged people to stop and think it through before throwing support behind a candidate for reasons other than being the best suitable candidate available.

    I don’t want to pass judgment, but at this point, it seems that they were more concerned about having ‘skin in the game” than offering wise counsel the American people.

    It just seems that we’re seeing so much of this type of response right now, and it saddens more than any words can describe, kipling.

  • jakeofalltrades

    I am sick of this cr*p!

  • avagreen

    Didn’t sound like it was an ‘electability’ issue to me…….more like blackmail.
    (read further beyond this paragraph……all of which is at the topmost of the article.)

    ….Maybe 10% were for Perry. Almost all of them were against Romney. Well, sort of. Caveat below.

    There was an official Romney guy there who explained that “You’ll either work with us now or work with us later, but you’ll all have to get on Mitt’s train, because we have the money and the organization, so there’s no stopping us.”
    http://rickperryreport.com/article/2012-01-15/santorum-revealed-romneys-stalking-horse-brenham?utm_source=Rick

    This did not go over well. It just made everyone more determined than ever to do whatever it takes to stop Mittens. How to do so is what the group could not agree on.

    I’m not going to name names, as I was asked not to. Just about every big name conservative you’ve heard of was there. A number of them didn’t come out for any particular candidate. Others said they were all in for Perry at the start, and just couldn’t overcome his blunders.

    When the case was made that Perry was the only candidate who actually understood the Constitution and the power of the 10th Amendment, the only one who was not a big government guy, the most successful governor in the country who has a rock solid record of job creation and conservative judicial appointments – they just didn’t care. I want that to sink in……

  • irishgirl

    about the meeting and it was also in that report that Perry had a pretty big following in the room but they couldn’t get past his “blunders” early on. But they have made a huge mistake IMHO by endorsing Rick Santorum. Not the first evangelical presence that has made a mistake this election cycle, sad to say.

  • dansvan

    I see so many people bemoaning that Perry is the most qualified; the most conservative, “BUT…”

    Are we really going to throw Perry out and keep speaking defeat over him because of a couple of debate performances early in the game?

    You can parrot the MSM and Fox all you want, but I for one am going to stick by Perry and continue to pray for God’s grace and favor on his campaign until Perry decides to quit OR UNTIL HE WINS.

    And not beforehand.

    C’mon people grow a pair and support the real conservative in this thing!
    Rick Perry 2012!!

  • irishgirl

    “Christian conservative movement is suffering from a lack of political astuteness” Wow. Right on point.

  • carolynr

    The insiders no more want me in DC than the devil wants to drink holy water.

    Part time Congress (although that would never fly)….what have they done this year…NOTHING…EXCEPT HURT THE PEOPLE. We marched, we called Congressman…and for what…to have a bunch of people decide for us who is going to be POTUS…and we thought we lived in a Free Republic…WRONG.

    p.s. Some of us are too stupid to think for ourselves…we listen to Sean Hannity and Fox News…and say…see…those people are Conservatives…they must be telling the truth. If they were…they wouldn’t be backing and pushing who they are. Santorum is nothing more than “cover” for their coveted conservative perception.

  • kipling

    I too have seen the statements and it does cause concern.

    Those of us who are both social and fiscal conservatives will have to try and hold the middle. Otherwise, we will all lose.

    I like your wise counsel approach. It would have been a better way.

  • avgjo

    If Romney gets the nomination, Obama wins.

    If by some great miracle Romney wins, we’ll continue the slide into socialism.

    You know why?

    There is no serious plan on our side for systemic change. Where is the strategy to supplant our treasonous media? Where is the discussion and planning to retake the education system? Where is the organized effort to put fire under our the tails of our GOP ‘leadership’?

    I could go on, but you get the point. If Romney won, our ineffective and impotent ‘conservative media’ won’t pressure him, just as they’ve failed to do with Boner and McConnell. (Hell, they’re pushing him down our throats as we speak, with RARE exceptions.) He’ll eagerly make friends with the dims. This is the same man who signed Obamacare’s test version and was a member of the Republican Main Street Partnership. Look up what they’re about. I’m still trying to figure out the difference between them and the Democrat party.

    I am sadly but increasingly coming to the conclusion that we’re gonna lose America because too many people on our side are too stupid, too lazy or too selfish to work to save her.

  • Scope

    is getting much play, but not all positive. From this Washington Times article an attendee claims that some were conned into leaving after the second round of balloting was cast. They claim that after the first round, Santorum lead by only 9 votes.

    Another participant claimed that he personally saw one person write Santorum’s name on 4 separate ballots, and put them in the ballot box. I thought these were all Christians or Religious leaders.

    I totally go with kipling’s statement that these people attached the term leadership to themselves, no one elected them. No one knows who a majority of the attendees were. No one knows who even decided who should be put on the list of so-called leaders. This is not going to end well, especially when we watch Santorum’s campaign suspension speech which will come sooner rather than later.

    Does anyone know who Bob Fischer is? From the article he was the co-ordinator of the event, I believe.

  • WillWong

    Over Newt was courtesy of $3M of negative ads against Newt! Prior to those unanswered negative and false ads, Newt was leading Iowa, nationally and had double digit lead in SC and Florida! Not that I read much into poll numbers but since you brought it up!

    All in all, it says a lot about the poor state of affairs for the not-Romney group! The one who is leading, Santorum does not have the vision, record, or resources to win! The one who has the proven record, vision, and communication skills to win, Newt, has too much baggage! The other one with the executive skills, resources, and track record couldn’t remember the third department he wants to get rid of! Frankly, unless a miracle happens over the next week or so, it looks like Romney will win the nomination only to be crushed in November!

  • Common_Cents

    I don’t get this talk of a brokered convention, Gingrich is the only one who can challenge Romney but has to do it starting w/ SC. Other than that, there will be near zero chance for anyone.

  • carolynr

    I have the same questions.

  • zaac

    Who cares if they share your values? Atheists and Klansmen and pro-abortionists can share people’s values too.

    For the Christian, CHRIST is to be first. And the support of HIM over other gods should trump all other values.

  • septembergurl

    that Erick finds it amusing that the State newspaper endorsed Huntsman on the day he dropped out. Timing is everything, and the religious leaders endorsement is coming too late to do Santorum any good. In Iowa, endorsing Perry for example would have helped him to a stronger finish, alternatively, Santorum could have won more convincingly against romney, and thus slowed Romney in NH.Now it’s as meaningless as the State endorsement.

    Romney has taken bigger leads both nationally and in SC (before Huntsman dropped out), cracking 40 nationally and rising, now to the low 30s in SC. As I have always pointed out Huntsman is the only candidate who takes votes from Romney, so the 5-8 per cent (not 1% as Erick says) he would win there will go to Romney. It’s possible for Romney to take as much as he did in NH (high 30s).

    I’d be just as happy if everyone else stayed in, but I don’t think that’s going to be possible much longer. The race will come down to Romney v Paul rather quickly, with perhaps one other for a while, my guess would be Gingrich. That has always been my prediction should Huntsman fail, and that is how it will be.

    Republicans will want to shut down the Romney-Paul race quickly, but because of the new rules it will drag on for a while, causing more damage to the nominee. And Romney is the weakest candidate for a long while, and uniquely at a disadvantage vs Obama. Our best issue against Obama (Obamacare) is off because of Romneycare. The economy is improving, only slightly, but that and the fact that Romney’s best argument for his electability
    (Bain) actually works against Romney means that the economy is also off the table. Social issues are off as well, this not being one of Romney’s strengths.

    As a result, Romney will run mostly against obama’s foreign policy. This of course is the only area where Americans think Obama is doing a pretty good job, and one in which Romney has little expertise or fluency.

    As to the Vice Presidency, it makes little difference and would make none here. Palin had little effect on McCain’s loss. Here I always quote Richard Nixon, who stated that a Vice President can never help you, he can only hurt you.

    Rubio or Jindal, to name two, are not going to tie their rising careers to Romney. They can wait for 2016 or 2020 and beyond. Marquee names like Christie or Rice are more liberal than Romney and would hurt him even more.

    back in Huntsman world, I see the knives out for John Weaver. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving person. Now one theory for Huntsman’s very long shot campaign was as a shakedown cruise, a trial run for the real race in 2016 and that’s how I prefer to see it. So he leaves with a decent showing in New Hampshire and no other losses.

    Also, Huntsman is the youngest candidate in the race and he can run again in 2016 or even 2020. Others can’t. Newt, for example, would be in his seventies. Ron Paul will be retired. Perry and Romney in their 60s. Huntsman is 51 and Santorum 53, so you could expect them in the next go-around.

    It’s not likely, by the way, that Romney would run with Santorum. He doesn’t bring much besides the socon cred, and Romney can get that running with McDonnell or any number of others, who might actually be able to deliver their home state, which it is doubtful Santorum could. Romney is more likely to go with Pawleny.

  • conservativemusician

    n/t

  • westcoastpatriette

    And this underscores my point about the insanity of the hysteria over this meeting when: 1) No one even knows who was in attendance at this meeting; 2) Why what they did even matters; 3) Who cares what they think — chances are, I have never even heard of at least half of them. At this point, it seems the main thing they have accomplished is completely insulting our intelligence.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    Never ever did we hold anti-black, or racist beliefs… to a Mormon you’re suggesting that God himself had anti-black or racist beliefs… and that’s just ludicrous… Mormon theology is founded in revelation from Christ to his chosen prophet and apostles.

    I know and understand where those ideas come from, and they’re very poorly misunderstood, most quotes are taken out of context, and often people point to one quote or another to suggest that the whole body of The Church of Jesus Christ somehow held certain notions as doctrine, and not the opinions of men that were offering speculation for an explanation.

    It has nothing to do with Jeremiah Wright, and to suggest that Mitt or any other Mormon that maintains their faith in the teachings of Jesus Christ as such is more than an insult, regardless of intent. For me your words are the equivalence of blaming all Christians for the Spanish Inquisition… that dog don’t hunt. :D

    I know you weren’t being malicious. I’m rather responding because I know you’re more sincere than that, and you actually take things into consideration, albeit with a healthy sense of humor.

  • BrendanW

    this just reads as inside baseball about Evangelicals. Something I’m not that interested in.

    I’ve always found the very religious who directly integrate their religion into political sphere as the easiest to corrupt. “This BIG GOVT program is worth it, because it provides charitable care for the poor, just like Jesus would have.”

  • avagreen

    or so was posted somewhere yesterday.

    I was also under the impression at first that these were all Texas evangelicals, but if I thought about it…….Dobson isn’t a Texan. Neither is the new leader, Tony Perkins (ominous name, heh?…..no insult intended……just my impression when I first heard it.)

  • carolynr

    Rather I go down with someone I know to be a winner than back a person that will fail in the end. That’s me. These people knew Perry’s record…they could have helped him out immensely because…as I posted with a Slap in The Face To Perry….they live under the fruits of his labor. With the exception of ND…TX is the only state that offers HOPE.

    Concerning Perry’s religious beliefs…faith…was there ever a question?

  • dansvan

    You sound about as angry as I feel over this. Thanks for putting my feelings to pen!

    Van

  • BrendanW

    directly integrate – meaning when they look for a political outlet for their religious views. I think it’s entirely right (and something I do) to have religion inform your political actions (voting, advocacy, donations, etc.)

  • Scope

    The Evangelicals are being asked to take the word of the great unknown. Wouldn’t that be like someone taking out a full page ad to endorse Romney, but with no name attached to the endorsement. Yes exactly, it is an insult to the intelligence of everyone, but especially those of us who have been following the campaigns closely, and have made our choices based on the complete records of the candidates, not just where they stand on social issues.

  • conservnca

    And I am a little tired of EE dismissing Perry the Man, (the Gov. of Texas, the candidate with all we need to start turning our country around, and a proven leader), because he believes Perry is running an ineffective campaign. Dr.S, you witnessed first hand his team in action and were very impressed with them.
    Could it just possibly be that they are fighting against every force out there to bury them. What about that EE? Could you run a better campaign or truly compete when a media blackout covers you like a shroud, and the coverage you do get (Hannity’s interview for one, or the hatchet job Rush did on him) is designed to humiliate you?I for one think that the courage Perry is displaying with all of this against him shows his character again to lead this country. It sounds like maybe the reason for your post was once again to show your readers why Perry is the man you hate to love. What about just standing behind him because you know in your heart that he is the best choice.If those of us who know he is the one this country needs just did that, he wouldn’t need media coverage.Word of mouth and this medium we are on right now, would be powerful enough.
    Those that attended the Evangelical sham this weekend put a knife in his back. God uses the foolish things of this world to confound the wise. Sounds like Godly wisdom was MIA in this meeting.Just as God anointed David to become King, if He has anointed Perry to lead this country we should be in agreement. David had his band of loyal men who were there to fight with him until he took the throne.Those of us who believe in Perry’s passion to fight for America and her people need to fight with him too! God kept David hidden until his time to keep him safe, maybe He is doing the same thing for Perry. I can only surmise because of the so-called decision that came out of this meeting in Texas, religion (man’s interpretation of God)was the marker, instead of seeking the heart of God. In the history of man it has always turned out badly when we have turned away from the will of God.Because it seems that our leaders have feet of clay, that we as a Nation should turn to the ONE True Leader,Jesus, and ask what He wants for our country.We all know we need our country to be saved from this destruction.Jesus is the Savior and if we will acknowledge Him in all our ways He will direct our paths as a Nation. Proverbs 3:6

  • zaac

    And that will be the sentiment of many evangelicals. The GOP is wasting its time even spending money if Romney is the nominee. They cannot win without the base.

    It’s as though they have resigned themselves to getting the House and the Senate because they really know Obamalite can’t win, but it’s his turn in the line of succession.

    Yes the country may just get exactly what it deserves in four more years of Obama since the ones who are supposed to honor Christ FIRST seem to in droves be supporting a candidate who worships another god. Just crazy.

  • acat

    (redacted)

    Mew

  • sunshinek67

    you nailed it, in so many words the establishment and msm picking candidates for the nation that have the exact same vision of failed policies. No wonder Perry lacks their God-forsaken endorsements.

  • aesthete

    I used to be a big fan of Focus on the Family, and still support much of what they do. However, Dobson and co have proven time and again that they are either incompetent at politics and political prioritization, or that they don’t care so long as they get to be at the head of the band.

  • supergirl2911

    I met him and we are working in sc now. There are Rick perry signs everywhere. You don’t hear it in the news but he is very much in Greenville SC

  • acat

    Cat’s barbecue rub – works well on pork and chicken, haven’t tried it on beef ribs… yet…

    In a bowl, mix:

    3 tablespoons brown sugar
    2 tablespoons paprika (roasted is better)
    1 tablespoon fresh ground black pepper
    1 tablespoon sea salt
    1 teaspoon oregano
    1 teaspoon basil
    1/2 teaspoon garlic powder
    1/2 teaspoon coriander
    1/4 teaspoon allspice
    1/4 teaspoon onion powder
    1/4 teaspoon ground red (cayenne) pepper (or to taste)

    Whisk together, rub on raw meat.

    For best flavor, store meat, rubbed, in the refrigerator for 2-12 hours before grilling.

    Note – if cooking indoors, 1/2 teaspoon liquid smoke may be added for flavor.

    Mew

  • http://www.erickerickson.org Erick Erickson

    A number of people are leaking on background not just details of the meeting, but quotes from the meeting, which I find appalling. They are also doing it to put various portions of campaign spin on what happened.

    Consequently, I felt it would be appropriate to more fully explain what happened as objectively as possible and defend Tony Perkins who, through those anonymous quotes, is getting attacked merely for playing a role others appointed him to.

  • panzerbenz
    If your arguments only consist of name calling and generalizations, you bring nothing to the conversation anyway.
    Your tactics remind me what the Dems did to Reagan back in the day and we see how that turned out for them. We Republicans used to support limited government, abhor nation building and ridicule as “RINO’s”any Republican who did not follow that line. Now the RINOs run the party and I am not going to change my beliefs for them.. If we had consistent, true conservatives, the Republicans would sweep right in from top to bottom..
  • jakeofalltrades

    it’s pretty-much broken wide open.

  • aesthete

    When it happens several times over the course of a decade, it becomes a pattern.

    While I do believe that most grassroots social conservatives are at least somewhat fiscally conservative, the social conservative leadership has consistently eschewed fiscal conservatism in favor of marginal and irrelevant excellence on social issues. As others have noted, every candidate in the running (even Ron Paul) is pro-life and supports constructionist judges. Yet, Rick Santorum is being supported based on an “outspokeness” which cannot manifest itself in concrete policy in any way? This is a disservice to conservatives, and I daresay that continual support of Huckabees, and GWBs, are an affront to fiscal conservatives.

    Social conservatives have accomplished what they set out to do to the extent that it is possible: they have made abortion a federal issue that every Republican Presidential candidate has paid deference to since Reagan, and which has prompted them to pick justices acceptable to the base. Having accomplished this, the leadership of said organizations has consistently blown out of proportion issues which have absolutely nothing to do with national politics (War on Christmas, gay marriage, etc). It’s high time that they remove themselves from federal politics and work in arenas where their advocacy actually makes sense, like state politics and civil society. At this point, these organizations are a pernicious influence on national Republican politics. Our only solace is that they are continually becoming more meaningless and marginalized — a fate which they have earned for themselves. Hopefully, anti-abortion advocates can create better organizations than those that are being left behind.

  • runner12

    These people do not “speak” for all Evangelicals. On the contrary, most Christians (including myself) of my generation view them with a good amount of skepticism as far as their political endorsements go.

    The real problem is that many Christians in my generation have been taught that politics is “bad” and that Christians should “be above” such things. Add that belief to the overarching apathy of my generation in general, and you have real problems.

    The only thing that is waking us up is the mounting debt and poor economy. This subject will engage any young person. The Conservative candidate that can articulate this point will win these votes. That person is not Santorum. Santorum lacks the fiscal conservative, small government credentials to win the Presidency. Even within my Christian circle, he is not popular.

    I am a social conservative, but I am about to pull my hair out regarding the narrow vision that exists among so-called Evangelical leaders. Don’t they realize that if we do not fix our fiscal mess and shrink government, we will lose the social battles as well? Wake up!

  • ihateliberals

    The are against his politics. Romney is a abortion, High Taxes, more Debt Republican liberal. he might say that he is conservative but that only happens at election time. The Party has openly said they don’t want conservatives and they are fighting against any candidate that is even a little bit conservative, They have worked with the Democrats to demonize the Tea Party. Romney is going to be the GOP nominee because the GOP has decided tht is who they want. The missed dong this to Reagan in 1980 and they swore they would get caught with their pants down again. In 1980 the People chose Reagan over GHW Bush and caught the Elite Republicans off guard. Now they have been able to convince the people tht Romney s the only one that can beat Obama. They are so blinded by hatred for conservatives they don’t realize they have cut their own throats. While there wil be some conservatives that stil vote for Romney becasue they don’t want Obama the Independents are now lost to the Democrats. Without the Tea Party and the Independents there will not be a Romney win in 2012. No Religion has nothing to do with this and everything to do with politics.

  • duramater

    Amen and amen.

  • notpropagandized

    This synopsis is generally accurate imo. As much as core evangelicals are to be respected, the type A personalities are not well positioned to win politically. Tony Perkins, however, is a fine example of a communicator and advocate that does not offend and turn off the sensibilities of those that are not enlightened to the Christian and or moral message of evangelicals.

    Erick’s summary give me even greater trust in the analysis he provides on a regular basis in RS.

    My ranking today:
    #1: I’d give the keys to Perry in a NewYorkMinute, if possible.
    #2: Gingrich
    End of list.

    Santorum is one of many admirable Christians and political leaders, but IMO simply does not have the caliber of leadership required to be USPres. His wife is a compelling mate and would be an excellent First Lady. IMO, it is a mistake for evangelicals to assume that his faith and righteousness will invite God’s deliverance to a sinful and deeply troubled nation.

    Gingrich is a warrior with the needed weapons to accomplish what is needed in the midst of the constitutional crisis and creeping coup d’ etat that is puppet-Obama, puppeteer ValerieJewett and all the other socialist ideologues that intend to subvert our democratic republic. No question, it is an awful prospect for the White House to be the residence for Newt and his erstwhile mistress.

    Type A evangelicals rightly ask, “can God honor a nation or party that elects such a sinner to such a high office”. We need to understand and know the consequences and reality of forgiveness given to those who earnestly, humbly and contritely seek it.

  • jakeofalltrades

    I am as fundamentalist as Christian gets, and I have no problem with Romney if he is nominated.

    I am beginning to wonder if you are a moby trying to spoil the general in favor of Obama.

  • pttx333

    tag teams coming in by the boatloads these days! Ugly stunts they are pulling, too …

  • jakeofalltrades

  • Scope

    After doing a little poking around, starting with the fact that the meeting was held at the Texas ranch of Paul Pressler, both he and Mr. Fisher have a past business relationship.

    Paul Pressler is the past, forced out for incompetence CEO of the Gap Inc. The Board Chairman of the GAP during his tenure was Robert J. Fisher. Mr. Fischer was against Pressler’s ouster, and apparently they remain friends.

    Mr. Pressler is a current partner of the NY and London based private equity firm Clayton, Dubilier and Rice. I’ll bet they were two votes against Perry and Gingrich for using the term Vulture Capitalism.

    I have not been able to find any information about either of the men mentioned above, as having anything to do with Christianity, spreading any Christian programs or issues, nor any other information pertaining to either as Christian or Religious leaders.

    The meeting has the appearance of something other than the voices of Evangelicals speaking out and supporting the best candidate in the race. No wonder there have been no lists Evangelical leaders in attendance, that the religious right is supposed to get in line with, as it appears they were not all Religious leaders. But the Religious leaders allowed their names to be attached to it to give it importance and influence. It’s worse than sad.

  • languedoctor

    We’re finally starting to get to a manageable number of candidates on stage.

    I’ll be interested to watch Gingrich and Santorum tonight, and then again on election night in S.C. There may yet be movement is one of them manages to win and the other finishes a distant third. It takes a lot more money to campain in FL than it does in S.C. Gingrich and Santorum both need money. Will they both get it?

  • acat

    for finding your spacebar! (that title would have been very ugly without it!)

    It does seem that our lists of preferred candidates line up, interestingly enough, even though our reasoning is a bit different.

    Mew

  • unitedwestood

    Fact remains, I am in this world, I am just not of this world. But, while I’m here I have responsibilities, as do other Christians. I’m actually very upset by the climate that I see coming out of the republican party these days. I literally had to defend my postion as a CONSERVATIVE not a REBULICAN once the similarities were slapped ( I mean slapped as in wake up call) that the democrats and the republicans share these days.

    You know, when you can’t tell the difference between the secular world and the Christian world, there is a problem. We are to the point that there isn’t much difference anylonger. I look to the church. We are supposed to have the answers because we’re supposed to have the Holy Spirit who gives us the answers. Yet, we’ve stopped praying and started playing. We’ve stopped following Jesus and started living like the world.

    Obama and those like him can only get away with class warfare because the church itself has been waging this same war for years upon years. I’m often amuzed by the amount of people that believe because Romney has money he must be dirty or a bad man. I believe neither of those to be true. I don’t believe Romney is right for this country because he talks out of both sides of his mouth and therefore he can’t be trusted.

    Oddly enough, we don’t hold people to their word anylonger. Yes, people do change their minds, I change mine as more information comes to light. But, I don’t change my mind depending on who I’m talking to. The bible say’s that a man that does that is unstabble in all his way’s..he has no root. So, if we’re going to have 150 evangelicals that are going to meet and then endorse, shouldn’t the bible be the criteria for which they make their recommendation.. not who is more electable? I feel when we make our choices based on who is electable and not guidence, or even comparing them to the bible.. we’ve injected fear and that is sin. How many times did Jesus say ” Fear not” he must have meant it. This election is based on fear. I have no problem trusting God, it’s men I have a problem trusting.. and many have shown they’re not trust worthy in this primary.

    teanyone – I started off answering you and went another direction as well… Hopefully someone will find it useful. But also keep in mind, these are my view points and opinions.. they do not have to be shared by anyone else.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    will tap him on the shoulder and he can learn what they look like, so that in the future he won’t have to ape leftists and slur capitalists with that term.

    a cat gets scratched! aka pecked by a rooster…smile

  • westcoastpatriette

    We are very much alike in how we think and are able to quickly discern when things stink. This is exactly my thinking at this point. It sounds like the entire meeting was orchestrated to use Evangelicals as dupes by people with agendas. It all makes me want to leave this scene for good and go back to my safe pew where at least most of the good people I fellowship with have good hearts and cannot fathom allowing money and power to influence their love for God and people.

    And I’m serious about that. The political system in this country is so polluted and corrupted that I think we have reached the point of no return in terms of trying to repair it or work within the system. Maybe it’s time for all of the good people to walk away and let it implode so we can start over. No bail outs for any of them. Don’t know exactly how this would play out but I just keep feeling like it is futile to try to fix the corruption in Washington anymore.

  • avagreen

    http://mrctv.org/node/109158?utm_source=The+Perry+Almanac&utm_campaign

  • acat

    it’s headed well into threadjack turf.

    I’ve said my bit to you before, you’re choosing to see it differently. C’est la guerre….

    Mew

  • mblack71

    Let’s not get carried away.

    Love the passion on this board for the various not-Romneys, but the time is fast approaching when it becomes apparent that Romney will be the nominee. So the choice will be Romney or Obama. This should be easy.

    Re Mormonism, their beliefs are no more unlilkely than most other faiths. The only way to find out who’s right is to die. Until then, let’s at least take back the White House.

  • daddyhink

    I suspect we’ve squandered a chance to win the presidency. Too bad, Obama was easy picking.
    Let’s turn our attention toward winning a veto-proof margin in the Senate and widen the majority in the House.

  • Common_Cents

    Where do you see him getting some momentum, if not in SC?

    Have any idea how much money he has to continue? Is Perry going to defy the polls in SC?

    He almost quit after the first go round in IA, what is going to be different if he doesn’t win in SC?

  • notpropagandized

    Don’t ever think that I don’t fondly recall your spacebar admonitions.

    We have 2 brother cats that are nearly identical in appearance and they have space between them. You like a . c . a . t ?

    I shall meander upward to your previous posts to ascertain your excellent reasoning to justify my accurate conclusions.

    Thank you…

  • 2caminos

    I find it very odd for some Evangelical Leaders, and I stress some Evangelical Leaders, who value their religion as the core of who they are, what they identify with, end up supporting Non-Evangelicals. I question, just how much do Evangelical Leaders really believe in their core values?
    Rick Perry is the only prominent Evangelical Christian left in the field otherwise made up of two Catholics, two Mormons and Rep. Ron Paul, who rarely talks about his religious beliefs.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    I NEVER call threadjack. I’m secure.

    smile…great title, you must admit?

    The SC GOP Primary: Vultures, capitalists, evangelicals and gamecocks

    http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2012/01/16/2440/

    In fact, you should recommend it so more people may read your always persuasive arguments!

  • mayflower

    “Yes, people do change their minds, I change mine as more information comes to light. But, I don?t change my mind depending on who I?m talking to. ”

    Excellent distinction! Very helpful in defining the discomfort people feel.

    “…because Romney has money he must be dirty or a bad man.”

    Here’s what I think the deal is about money:

    It’s a blessing, it’s a resource to be used for good purpose, and it like eveything else belongs to God. In matters of Christian character, here are the two things that really matter:

    1. What we have done, or are willing to do, in order to acquire it.

    2. What we do with it when we have it.

  • acat

    Perhaps I thought my comments on one of your other diaries were sufficient.

    Mew

  • pttx333

    where the so-called evangelicals met. They met in Brenham, TX, about 80 mi. NW of Houston. It is a very beautiful area and very expensive – lots of the movers and shakers out of Houston have sprawling ranches with magnificent mansions – quite a sight to see, rolling hills, cattle grazing everywhere, very pastoral settings.

    Reading the back and forth between my two friends here, I really learned a lot! And I thank both of you for the info. Wow!

    Now, I think it would be safe to now call that so-called evangelical conference “The Political Conference.” Doesn’t have a thing to do with Christians/Evangelicals! Nothing but a bunch of political wheeling and dealing going on there it would seem. The entire take-away of “secret” is just not seemly. Why would pastors want it kept secret? My only guess is that if their congregations knew what was going on there, they would be thrown out of their churches on their collective a$$es! As men of the cloth, so to speak, why do they have to wear masks? I support Perry and will stand tall on top of any courthouse to proclaim it – no shame here.

    So much of this election is dirty, filthy politics-as-usual doings, and I damn every single instance of it. IMHO, the only one standing tall here is Perry, and I’m not giving up or giving in, but will take my cues from Perry himself. And I will fight to the bitter end for his election. And I know both of you are the same way.

    Thanks, friends, for all you do each each and every time you’re here. I am honored to visit with the both of you and gain your knowledge and opinions – for free even!

  • TexasTami

    …stand up and tell them the strategy they needed to know to win? ["...the evangelical movement within the political sphere ? it is often poorly advised on strategy and cuts short term deals that undermine long term goals."] Why are you, of all people, tentative about meeting Jim Dobson? He would respect your opinion. And if not you, then direct them to someone who could speak well to strategy.

  • Christine (Trelaina)

    I think we expected too much.

    Some of us forgot that liberals slowly introduced liberalism to us over 40+ years and thought we could take the country hard-right in less than 4 years.

    We should have come together and made our goal the defeat of Obama with someone who would listen to us, even if he/she didn’t always agree with us. We should have aimed for the introduction of true Conservative thinking into ALL levels of politics. Then, we work those true Conservatives up the political ladder, into Congress and eventually the White House…introducing our own “hope and change” at the local level along the way.

    Instead, we put every person who uttered something relatively conservative on a pedestal and shouted “you should be President”. Some of them weren’t really conservative, and we found that out when they threw us under the bus. The others believed all they had to do was talk a good game to win. They failed because they were pushed way beyond what they were ready to handle…and that’s because of US.

    We should have made our goal the abolishment of Obamacare. We won’t get that now….and the ideals of the Founding Fathers will fall further from our grasp.

    Thanks to all of you who believe politics is a microwave where we push two buttons and get exactly what we want in 30 seconds. YOU are the ones who “blew this one”. Enjoy your four years of President Romney….or worse.

  • mayflower

    though it doesn’t really matter since we don’t know one another – I DO believe there is validity pertaining to religion, being a Christian personally. I don’t think every single thing that every other Christian subscribes to in their faith journey is always valid, but I wish them well.

  • pttx333

    h

  • irishgirl

    Wow, thanks for posting that vid. I encourage everyone to watch who didn’t get a chance to watch it in person.

  • avagreen

    And, I’m talking about more than just this “conference”. Personal experience.

    Has been this way since biblical times. Paul’s letter to Timothy.
    I Timothy
    20 But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning.
    21 I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.

    The bible is full of instances where “leaders” fell away.

    So, again, the answer is “no”.

  • WillWong

    The Paul Pressler is a Texas Appeals Court Judge and a prominent Southern Baptist!

  • avagreen

    The applause was deafening at times……

    I can see why the Mittbots are busily trying to get him out and his speakeasy’s are suggesting that he cut & run.
    *Fools*

    Cowards working overtime. May they fail, and fail hard!! Right on their *amned noses.

  • avagreen

    nt
    Suspect:
    NoLongerForPerry
    joshdunn

  • Dave_A

    Is a funny way of ‘acknowledging’ financial problems…

    Paul is as nuts on economics as he is on foreign policy.

    His means to a ‘smaller government’ (massive monetary deflation) would crush the common people long before it reduced the size of government by even one employee.

  • Scope

    You have no idea how much I want to go back to my days of being one of those people who couldn’t name the candidates running for president. It was so peaceful, and a whole lot less stressful. I truly understand how our friend lizzie feels, but I’m dumb enough to just keep digging.

    Remember I mentioned in my post above that Paul Pressler, who owns the ranch where the meeting was held, is a current partner in the private equity firm Clayton, Dubilier, and Rice? Low and behold, CDR worked in partnership with Bain Capital in the high dollar leveraged buyout of one of their major purchases. You can find the information here at the Wiki entry for Bain.

    Also fascinating to find out was that in 2001 Bain Capital also purchased a 30% share in Huntsman Corporation, which is one of the companies controlled, at that time anyway, by the father of Jon Huntsman, who has now suspended his campaign, and endorsed Romney.

    Another interesting find on those pages was the fact that Bain, along with TPG, and Goldman Sachs, at one time announced the leveraged buyout of Burger King. The writeup states that most of the franchisees who bought into the Burger King franchises were in favor of the buyout. Didn’t Herman Cain include on his resume, that as a part of his business experience, was when he took over a large section of Philadelphia Burger Kings, and turned some of them into success stories, by closing down many of the locations, and laying off some of those employees?

    I have no proof of anything, and I’m not sure I want to even know anymore about Bain, because my stomach is in knots right now. The term “stalking horse” just took on a whole new meaning for me.

  • thosjefferson

    Erick, you said even before the evangelical meet that Romney had no chance. Now you’re trying to justify your bias by claiming it’s the fault of Romney’s presenter at the meeting. The timing doesn’t work.

    If, as you suggest, Romney’s people even brought up anti-Mormon bigotry, they made a mistake. Agreed. However, given your animosity toward Romney and your decision even before the meeting that he had no chance, your reports are suspicious to say the least.

    Not that there aren’t plenty of posters on RedState that demonstrate anti-Mormon bigotry on a regular basis…

    The problem is you have evangelicals around the country attacking Mormons on a weekly basis, relying mostly on long-discredited and obscure quotations from the 1800s. Most of us don’t care what a Mormon, or Jew, or Baptist, or Catholic believes so long as they believe in the fundamental values of faith, family, country, and freedom. Those are areas all the Republican candidates agree on, so why can’t we all accept that and focus on the substantive issues instead of trying to settle on an “evangelical” consensus based primarily on religious belief?

  • WillWong

    To come up with a consensus candidate to run against Obama? We can do it the same way…and might take us a few ballots!

  • gracie

    I know this is a cynical way to look at things. But I believe it was stated he paid Pawlenty’s debt. Bachmann shilled for him and stayed in way longer than she could afford. So I think he will pay Santorum’s debt to keep him in.

    Normally yhou would be right; we would see by normal donations who wilol go forward. Not this time to my way of thinking.

    Perry and Newt will have to raise their own money. Can I prove it? No. He also bought Nikki Haley by donated hugely about two years ago to her campaign. I told a friend today, if Romney won it fair and square I could accept it. But he is buuying this election IMO and I resent it.

  • Change Jar Conservative

    I love Perry.

    But if he can’t win in Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina and if evangelicals picking a candidate in Texas don’t support him (despite them being from all over) then I don’t see what help he has.

    If he proves me wrong in South Carolina, I’ll be super happy and sometimes polls are wrong, but they aren’t THAT wrong.

  • pttx333

    They’ve got a lot of tag teams, and I’m watching like a hawk. There are more than NLFP and JD on here. Gonna keep pokin’ ‘em, too. Just take note when I do, just as a double check on things.

    What a job! But I will not stop or back down on anything – I know you won’t either, my friend!

  • mayflower

    I don’t know anything about this film to which you refer, Godmakers.
    And I entirely agree with you that “Angels & Demons” was an entertaining movie, but certainly not to be taken for gospel truth about either history or church doctrine.

    I was sharing what I have learned from my Mormon friends (who I love), directly. I don’t know any ex-members. And from the following references. If I’m wrong, I’m willing to learn differently – I have no investment in being right about everything (Jesus has that covered, in my view).

    Anyway, here’s where it’s written – if there are contradictory or more authoritative teachings, please let me know. I’m always more interested in learning than in being right about everything, and have no interest in only listening to views with which I already agree.

    “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s,” (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22; Compare with Alma 18:26-27; 22:9-10).

    “Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones,” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).

    “The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood – was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115).

    “Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers” (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 547).

    “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. . .” (8th Article of Faith of the Mormon Church).

    The ?Great Apostasy? was marked by the efforts of men to legislate the nature of the Godhead. The creeds written by the early Christian churches after the death of the Apostles have guided every Christian congregation since then” (Direct from the LDS site)

    RE eternal progression and godhood:

    Speaking in the Tabernacle on August 8, 1852, Brigham Young stated,

    “The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like Himself; when we have been proved in our present capacity, and been faithful with all things He puts into our possession. We are created, we are born for the express purpose of growing up from the low estate of manhood, to become Gods like unto our Father in heaven. That is the truth about it, just as it is” (Journal of Discourses 3:93).

    D&C 76: 94-98 (Doctrine and Covenants)
    94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;
    95 And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion.

    Mormon Apostle Orson Pratts:

    “Each God, through his wife or wives, raises up a numerous family of sons and daughters; indeed, there will be no end to the increase of his own children: for each father and mother will be in a condition to multiply forever and ever. As soon as each God has begotten many millions of male and female spirits, and his Heavenly inheritance becomes too small, to comfortably accommodate his great family, he, in connection with his sons, organizes a new world, after a similar order to the one which we now inhabit, where he sends both the male and female spirits to inhabit tabernacles of flesh and bones. Thus each God forms a world for the accommodation of his own sons and daughters who are sent forth in their times and seasons, and generations to be born into the same. The inhabitants of each world are required to reverence, adore, and worship their own personal father who dwells in the Heaven which they formerly inhabited” (The Seer, p. 37).

    Mormon Apostle James Talmage wrote:

    “We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement — a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share” (The Articles of Faith, p. 430).

    Anyhow, if these teaching have been changed, I’m very open to hearing about it. Not trying to be right here – just explaining what I wrote.

    I didn’t intend any disrespect – just was discussing the visceral variance between Evangelivcals and Mormons, who I believe will have have central and continuing differences when these issues are fully aired as a consequence of the political process in the upcoming campaigns and election.

    And, by the way, I like pretty much everyone, unless they give me some significant reason to feel otherwise. I tend especially to like Mormons, irrespective of whether or not I subscribe to their theology.

  • fightnright

    I see the use of the suffix ‘tard’ used frequently nowadays to indicate ridicule or diminishment. I wish someone could explain that usage to me.

    Why would the suffix ‘tard’ be used at the end of a candidate’s name to express contempt?

    Does the use of the suffix ‘tard’ indicate that one is making a connection to something or someone who is – broadly or generally – worthy of derision or disdain?

  • avagreen

    And yes, at one time Cain was associated with Burger King.
    During the 1980s, his success as a business executive at Burger King prompted Pillsbury Company to appoint him as chairman and CEO of Godfather’s Pizza in which capacity he served from 1986 to 1996.[13]

    As I told my husband this morning and as I read some place else, the Democrat Party has been ruined by these corporatists/statists/marxists, and now they are working on the Republican Party. *damned their eyes*

    What’s funny is how Marxism views Capitalism.

    according to Marxist theory can no longer sustain the living standards of the population due to its need to compensate for falling rates of profit by driving down wages, cutting social benefits and pursuing military aggression.
    Course this wouldn’t happen unless we have a socialist in power to make sure all the above happens (by running off business in this nation and killing the rest with regs) and then say: “Look. See how horrible capitalism is….”.
    *sweet, huh?*

  • mayflower

    Could you please explain what ROFL means? I’m not an experienced internet person.

  • zaac

    Now this is so true it is scary.

  • pttx333

    the gravy here is getting thicker by the moment with an overwhelming stench that cannot be ignored! WOW! Ladies, you do yourselves proud in your great research! Bravo!

    Miz Scope, I fully understand your feelings. I suppose it would be nice to be all innocent, robotic Stepford wife, bimbo types, but it just is not me. I am far too nosy/inquisitive and have to get to the bottom of things. But I am compelled to be knowledgeable enough to fight like a pit bull.

    My hat is off to the three of you … thank you! (insert curtsy here)

  • zaac

    What I am is a follower of Jesus Christ who wonders why Christians supposedly have convictions when it comes to abortion candidates, but seem to lose that conviction when it comes to a candidate worshipping a god that is not Jesus Christ?

  • notpropagandized

    If you want to do that, then you’ll need to be sure to get the best real conservative at the top of the ticket that you can find. IMO Romney will not get out conservative vote as much as independents. Getting the conservative vote generally is a better bet to win elections than trying to win over independent. Both must be pursued as best as one can, but if you want down ticket wins, nominate a conservative with as much red-meat appeal you can get.

  • acat

    does not appear to have a hell of a lot to do with who Caesar worships.

    Mew

  • Scope

    and I did miss that. Now, I’ve been trying to find any source that shows any relationship of Judge Pressler, with the Paul Pressler I wrote about. I have been unsuccessful so far. What makes me very curious is the fact that Bob Fisher, a one time employee of the Gap Inc., worked with Paul Pressler (the one I’ve written about) as the CEO of the Gap. The article I linked above states that Bob Fisher was the leader of the proceedings at the Texas confab this past weekend. So there are two Paul Presslers with Texas ties, and somehow Bob Fisher who has ties to the Paul Pressler I wrote about just happened to be at the meeting this weekend, but none of it is connected?

  • gracie

    like we did for Scott Brown….a million in a day if memory serves.

    Erick I respect your opinion about this but given Perry’s truly upping his game to pro status could you consider this??

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    ..

  • avagreen

    until someone gives us permission.

    So far, I’ve given…….well enough to buy a small house. /sarc/

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

  • pttx333

    of what you say is what I believe to be true, and it was planned from the outset.

  • jakeofalltrades

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    If you can’t understand that, you’re part of the problem.

  • Scope

    the Paul Pressler I wrote about is related to Judge Paul Pressler? OK there may be two Paul Pressler’s both with Texas ties. What is curious is that the article I linked above released the name of Bob Fisher as the leader of the proceedings at the confab this weekend. A Bob Fisher worked with the Paul Pressler I referred to. So each of the Paul Presslers both know two different Bob Fisher’s? I cannot find any connection to the two Paul Presslers, but of course why would every person’s relatives be listed anywhere? They can be brothers, cousin’s or any other type of blood relationship.

  • sta46

    and I’ve been betting all along that willard and his $$$$ are behind why they were both in there for so long… and they were both spoilers specifically aimed at Rick Perry.

  • kipling

    One needs a shovel to muck through all the waste you are attempting to pass off as analysis. So, let me hit just a few highlights.

    1. Social Conservatives did not make abortion a federal issue. The Supreme Court made abortion a federal issue with Roe v. Wade.

    2. Social Conservatives and other anti-abortion activists have to fight against abortion at the local and national level. It makes no sense to abandon the national arena when the liberals use federal funds, federal laws, and a federal court to push their social liberalism.

    3. The goal of every conservatives should be to appoint judges who will honor the U.S. Constitution.

    4. You can hardly blame Bush I and Bush II on social conservatives. Would McCain in 2000 have been more to your liking? How about Dole in 1988? Don’t blame us for the fact that establishment Republican candidates are not conservative.

    5. GWB may have personally been a social conservative but his administration was not. His wife was clear about her pro-choice views. Dick Cheney supported gay marriage. Etc. Etc. Need we even mention the Harriet Miers fiasco.

    6. Evangelicals have not fallen in line with a Santorum nomination. Nor did they fall in line behind Huckabee in 2008. Some of the leadership did but the rank and file did not.

    7. I assume in your next post you will blame social conservatives for the sinking of the Titanic and the end of the dinosaurs. We had nothing to do with either.

  • jakeofalltrades

  • trevorb

    like the establishment buying it for him. It’s his “turn” to run for president and they don’t want anyone getting in the way of that.

  • sta46

    there seems to me to have been a virtually complete news blackout of Rick Perry. For quite a while I found it surprising and a bit confusing since one would think he would fall right into their “allegedly conservative” wheelhouse.
    Then I remembered a comment from some Texas Dem when Perry tossed his hat into the ring saying no need to waste time trying to dig up dirt on Perry… that the Texas Dems had been trying to find dirt on him for years and that there simply isn’t any. So, no luck with attack ads.
    Then I remembered the full frontal attack on Fox News from barry soweto and his regeime early on during the o-care mess. So… I wondered if little barry has launched his racist lap-dog from the DOJ on Rupert & Co. with a threat to yank Fox’s FCC license if they didn’t black out Perry. IMHO Perry is the only one who can/could knock little barry out of the box, and little barry, being the ferral political animal that he is, would have been among the first to recognise that fact.

  • pttx333

    giveaway to me! Thanks for the magic wand, Neil!

  • sta46

    nt

  • westcoastpatriette

    you give me too much credit. It’s Scope who is digging up details. The only thing that I concluded was that I was angry at the secretive nature of all of it all and feeling more and more suspicious. I guess we all have each other to hold onto because even though I would like to walk away, I know too much to stop now. And just like you, pttx, the filthier this all gets, the more endearing Perry becomes to me. I truly believe he is the only person running with a solid heart of integrity and it makes my heart weep for how he has to stand alone to fight all of the bast***s. That will be the only reason I keep on fighting — for his sake. And I hope he doesn’t quit.

  • sta46

    last week said Perry has virtually no one on the ground in FL. I think he is about to be out of money and I for one would be all in for a money bomb for him. Please Erick and can we do it soon… like tonight?

  • cbartlett

    Excellent article with documented information about Romney. This is the most extensive list I have seen and should be read by anyone thinking about voting for him over any of the others. The scariest thing is that the Dems will absolutely have all of this information to use against him if he is the nominee against BO. Do we stand a chance of beating him in November with Romney?

    http://noleftturnz.wordpress.com/2012/01/15/mitt/

  • pttx333

    snsn

  • Common_Cents

    1:04 p.m. | Updated Four Christian conservative leaders who attended a meeting of evangelicals in Texas last week issued a statement Monday reiterating their firm support for Newt Gingrich.

    ?While we truly respect both Rick Santorum and Rick Perry, we believe Newt Gingrich to be the only candidate that has the intellectual strength and the capacity to stop the left?s attack on morality, the economy, basic freedoms and our religious liberty.

    ?The statement added: ?In addition Mr. Gingrich is the social conservative that has the capacity to raise funds and produce a national organization that would allow him to compete with and defeat Barak Obama. For the sake of the nation, we remain steadfastly committed to Newt Gingrich.?

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/16/four-evangelical-leaders-reaffirm-support-for-gingrich/

  • gracie

    and Romney will not. There is some reason they want Romney…either he will not change DC or…they think he is the easiest to beat because he is the SAME as Obama with Bain added,

    WHY, or why can the restof the worlod not be as smart as RedStater’s???
    (rhetorical question)

    psst! pttxx333, the gekster’s back!

  • sta46

    was paid for with willard’s cash.

  • gracie

    what I could.
    I don’t know if you were here in the time when Erick did moneybombs…the BIG ones. Like I said for Scott Brown, we tried for 1/2 million and if memory serves had it by mid day and went for the whole million and got it!

    And I mean…Perry is not as important as Scott Brown???

    If Perry does as well tonight as he did Sat and Erick would endorse and we all did a moneybomb to help Perry go forward, what a message it would send to the big league supporters if the grassroots did that, don’t cha think?

  • zaac

    who does care what they believe. The fundamental values of the Mormon faith worships a god that is not Jesus Christ. And that may not matter to some who call themselves Christian in name only and who will cosign with anything for political expediency. But honoring Christ FIRST does still matter to a lot of people in the GOP.

  • avagreen

    Isn’t it the same thing as everyone giving? or is there some sort of campaign to send to other sites, post on CNN, etc?

  • zaac

    The Body of Christ should be worshipping Christ and should not be supporting anyone who puts forth a god that is not Jesus Christ.

    As I said before, the GOP makes a big deal about being pro-life because abortion is murder/sinful. Idolatry is equally sinful . So why on Earth would folks who say they love Jesus ever support a candidate who puts forth a false god over Christ?

  • fightnright

    That clarifies things.

    As in Ron Paulism, certainly. Thanks! – it wasn’t in my dictionary.

  • fightnright

    I would agree with, Neil.

  • cbartlett

    You shouldn’t have to be independently wealthy to run for, or “buy”, a poliitical office. For that matter, it’s just as bad to have a George Soros, ad nausem, buying the office for you too. I’ve heard media types from both ends of the spectrum say for the last few months that Romney “has been running for president for 5 years”. Bunk – looks more like he’s been setting some of this up for TWENTY-five years! Bet he wishes he could go back and “un-say” a few things now, though.

  • pttx333

    is the reason for all of the caterwauling from many groups – absolutely. Their little fiefdoms and comfiness (new word) would prohibit them from retaining/gaining power since Perry would clean up the mess in DC. It has been that way for years with Perry! Look at our own last Governor’s election – Rove, the Bushies, KBH, the trial lawyers, et al. – and what is it all about? $$$ and power! That’s it in a nutshell! Personally, dear one, I think as a group we should win some sort of distinguished medal for being the think-tank political analysts who beat out everybody!!!

    Yeah, I’ve talked to the gek. He’s my bud – in fact, my son on RS! I’m very honored that he calls me Mom. Guess I can box his ears now, huh. ;-) ‘cept I don’t want to that.

  • sta46

    that if you dug far enough back into these guys they might also be Bushies? Or do you think it’s all BainBucks?

  • sta46

    that if you dug far enough back into these guys they might also be Bushies? Or do you think it’s all BainBucks?

  • acat

    Because when your jesus was arrested in Israel, that was one of the things he specifically forbade. .. and the roman emperor, Casesar, was not worshiping him. Further, it would have been that same Caesar’s appointee governor in Israel who passed the death sentence on your jesus.

    Your understanding of scripture is evidently very weak, your understanding of politics appears weaker.

    Mew

  • pttx333

    his arrogance, self-importance and sense of entitlement will prevent him from every admitting to anything negative about himself; i.e., “Moi? Whatever do you mean? I (read that as me, me, me,) am the anointed one and deserve everything I want. And my money can buy me anything or anyone I wish to have.” Can’t ya just see it? ;-)

    Yeah, methinks he has been coached/groomed all of his life for exactly what he’s been doing lo these many decades!

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    Romney is a member of LDS, and I’m guessing from your comment you think he’s not a Christian. I’m just noting what appears to be a fact from your narrative, I’m not looking for a discussion on the subject.

    Obama professes to be a Christian.

    Who do you vote for? A one word answer will suffice, thank you.

  • zaac

    And at no point in the first century or the 21st has Jesus Christ ever advocated followers of HIM pushing to elect someone who places another god before HIM.

    My understanding of Scripture is exactly where it should be. I understand enough to know that JESUS is to be first even before politics.

    Mew.

  • surfcitysocal

    So sad…debating whether it’s about economics or social issues. Debating whether someone can win or not. Evangelicals had someone running who could tackle the economic and social issues and who could win: Bachmann. But they blew it. They sat on their hands…and their sexism…asked her to leave the race…wrote emails (Santorum) about how children would be harmed by her candidacy and how women didn’t belong in the Oval Office…and, frankly, blew it. Oh, and let’s not forget the undiluted damage done by evangelicals themselves, like Thune, a fellow Biola graduate, who endorsed Romney. I now have no doubt that the historic first of a woman president will go to the Democrats because they are not shackled by principle.

    I didn’t support Bachmann because she is a woman. I supported this articulate, knowledgeable debater because she is solidly conservative and has a stellar record fighting the establishment. The fact that she is a woman is a bonus and offered the GOP the chance to say, “See, we aren’t doing the same old thing we’ve always done.” She was also the only one in the values forum who said in no uncertain terms that she asked Christ into her life. The others talked about their church membership. Perry came the next closest, but she was the only one who acknowledged that she was saved by grace.

    Steve Deace, in a Townhall article in December said it well regarding why Christians haven’t had a single policy victory in over 30 years, “We debated who COULD win instead of who SHOULD win.” No matter who gets the nomination, I believe the Republican candidate will lose, and lose badly. Go ahead, blame me, but I have a feeling I won’t be the only one who won’t roll over and do the bidding of the GOP establishment, even in the face of another four years of Obama wrecking the country further. In 2008, I held my nose and voted for McCain. I can’t betray everything that I am again. I’m drawing a line in the sand. I cannot support any of the remaining candidates and will write in who SHOULD win.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    Thank you.

  • zaac

    Neither.

    Obama supports an agenda that is not based in Christ.

    Romney supports a god that is not Christ.

    It ain’t that difficult. Stand with Christ first and be pleasing to HIM above everything else. And if the country gets four more years of Obama because CHRISTIANS could not take a stand for Christ FIRST, then perhaps the country deserves Obama.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Just asking.

  • unitedwestood

    Very true statements. Simple and to the point.

  • kipling

    To render unto Caesar does not mean that one has to vote for Caesar or give approval to his actions. It also does not mean that one has to obey a law or a regime that causes one to sin against God.

    Jesus forbade Peter to resist when they came to arrest Jesus. He did so because He had to die as payment for sin.

    The question at hand is not one of rebellion but whether a person should vote for a particular candidate.

    Whether we like it or not, Mormonism will factor into whether or not many will vote for Romney. jakeofalltrades estimated that perhaps 20% would not. That will be a serious handicap and we need to develop an argument that might convince those 20%.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    With respect to Obama, do you have a problem with his profession of faith in Christ? And with respect to his agenda, how can you say it’s not based in Christ? And, what is an agenda that would be based in Christ?

    Oh and, how about Newt Gingrich, a recent convert to the Roman Catholic faith? Would you vote for him over Obama?

  • zaac

    The very same Constitution that allows people to worship as they wish allows me to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. So why would I be for something that cuts off my nose to spite my face?

    I’m not advocating a legislation of morality. I’m advocating that Christians be advocates FIRST for the One WHOM they are supposed to keep first.

    And supporting a candidate who is an advocate for a false god does not do so.

    So again, serving a false god should be an equal if not bigger issue for Christian conservatives than is abortion.

  • irishgirl

    Newt is not who I support, but glad to see some of the “evangelicals” who attended this meeting step out and make their own announcement, plus actually give their names.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    “a sin against God”?

  • acat

    is that you miss so much of the subtext.

    In this case, I was simply pointing out that there’s a clear distinction, in your own holy book, between civil authority (Caesar) and spiritual.

    Mew

  • jakeofalltrades

    Next question – why stay home? Is it not possible to vote for a lesser evil, since that would be the greater good?

    Are Romney and Obama equally bad?

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    nt.

  • circlegranch

    Christian churches are dumbing down religion in hopes of attracting not just souls to save, but donors to the coffers. In my church, the goal is to attract younger members. They are coming but they are there because of the cool pop music that is played by a rock band instead of traditional hymns. The ‘traditional’ and ‘contemporary’ services are an appeasement to those that would reject faith unless they get to show up in flip flops and torn jeans, listening to music that they can relate to,drinking coffee and being plugged into their iPod during the ‘message’. (Traditional service has a sermon, the hip version offers a ‘message’.) Too many churches today are founded on the principle of “It’s all good. You don’t have to follow a bunch of rigid rules that have endured time for centuries. Tradition is outdated. Just come and hang out and be yourself. Tell us what we can say and do to make you feel good about yourself, and we’ll offer it.”

    We desensitize Christianity, make excuses and allowances that are not found anywhere in the Bible and then wonder why we have the results we see today. Christian Republicans that left the fold to vote for Obama never gave pause to the Black Theology that his churrch teaches which is aligned with the foundation of Kwanza, the ‘new’ Christmas holiday. For those that have never done some research into Kwanza, I recommend it. Same with the teachings of Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

    The millions upon millions that are spent building these huge mega churches or impressive campuses such as Focus on the Family, are not built to the glory of God; they are built to promote the men that run them.

  • kipling

    I never said it was or was not “a sin against God.”

    I am simply pointing out the proper Scriptural context for “Render unto Caesar.”

    Render unto Caesar has little to do with voting in the United States.

  • pttx333

    discouraging folks so they’ll stay home and not vote. Now you and I both know who that would benefit, do we not? He’s on my radar, and it is blipping as I post.

  • kipling

    Scripture is quite clear that God is Lord of all and that government derives its authority from God. Scripture is also quite clear that Christ is Lord of the Christians decisions – both spiritual and political. Secularism is an invention of the 19th century and is not a concept found in Scripture.

  • zaac

    Where is the fruit? I have seen anything from the man( and I’m not privy to everything that he does) that speaks to having a genuine relationship with Jesus Christ. In fact, up until it was time to start campaigning for reelection, I’ve never seen him do or say much positive about Christianity.

    And much like the folks who will support a candidate who does not support Jesus Christ, Obama has a tendency to somewhat advocate every religion except Christianity and following Christ. And for someone to supposedly be a follower of Jesus Christ, nothing of his actions seems to testify to this.

    I can say his agenda is not based in Christ because it is not.

    As for Newt, I use the same manner of discretion that I would use with a pastor. If there is a pastor who has a moral failing, we ask him to step down from a position of leadership until he can be properly restored to the Body.

    Newt however has shown a pattern of doing the same thing. And while it does not disqualify him, if the GOP cannot field a nominee who does not have this issue of bad character hanging over his head, then perhaps they need not put forth a nominee.

    There are Catholics who have a genuine relationship with Christ who understand that salvation was not imparted to them simply because they were sprinkled with water as a child.

    So in that regard, if it can be shown that he has a genuine relationship with Jesus Christ, then I would vote for such a Christian Catholic.

    But Mormons aren’t Christians. PERIOD.

    I however don’t believe that Newt needs to be in a position of leadership anymore than I think a pastor who has had repeated affairs needs to be in a position of leadership.

  • avgjo

    Full disclosure: I’m an Evangelical Christian, I currently attend an Assembly of God Church.

    As many here have told you, Christ did say to render unto Caesar…

    But in America, individual, voting adults are Caesar.

    In the Church, two things stand out: appalling ignorance of history, politics or anything ‘worldly’ and a complete disdain for politics.

    Because of the appling ignorance of history permeating churches today, few know the role played by pastors in the American revolution. (Go look up ‘Ellis Sandoz: Political Sermons…’ and you can read for free on the Liberty Fund website a collection of these sermons. Read some. Then ask yourself how many of our pastors today could think or argue like that. It’ll make you sad. ) Partly because of this ignorance, imo, they seem to think American churches should play no role in defending American liberties.

    The Bible says to ‘study to shew theyself approved unto God’ Churches today think that only applies to the Bible. If Paul had done this, he would not have been nearly as successful as he was in converting people. He used his knowledge of pagan philosophy and Roman Law in many practical ways, as recorded in the NT. Today’s Christians seem to think themselves above this.

    The Church in America has also failed in many ways at evangelism. In my own town, I have seen in a short time churches fall away from doing charity and community outreach. That leaves a vacuum which is filled by government. It has also failed at evangelism, leaving a spiritual void which liberalism, pop culture and deviated lifestyles attempt to fill.

    Earlier, i said we individuals are Caesar in this country. Christians have largely abdicated or neglected this role. God gave us everything we needed to suceed: religious freedom, prosperity, resources beyond belief. We have squandered it. And many, many churches are so self-assured today that they are doing God’s will, it doesn’t even cross their minds to heed 2 Chronicles 7:14: ‘If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.’ Notice the people identified; in America today, that would be Christians, who seem to think the problems all lie with everyone else, and not them.

  • zaac

    I never understood folks and the whole “lesser of two evils” stance. The lesser of two evils is STILL evil.

    As Scripture says, God desires our obedience over our sacrifice.

    As much as we think we are serving the “greater good” or doing GOD a favor by supporting the lesser of two evils, we’re STILL dishonoring GOD by elevating someone who supports a false god over Him.

    God is best served by us obeying HIM FIRST.

    So if Romney is the nominee, Christians who love Jesus Christ should either stay home or write in a candidate who honors Christ.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    Thanks.

    As far as Render…, actually a good case can be made that it has a lot to do with voting.

    In context, Jesus said it to Peter and in that time, taxes were paid based on nothing more than the tax collector’s demand, no 1040s. Evading taxes was a common practice, especially for the poor. Jesus is encouraging Peter to pay his lawful tax and hence, participate in the government of the day.

    Today, we have the right to vote. To shun the opportunity to do so is equivalent to Peter avoiding his participation.

    I have no intention of arguing the point further, this not being a theological forum, just pointing out that a case can be made.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Bowles in, or bowels out:

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    Now then, how about Gingrich.

  • alfromfl

    is that we need to vote for Gringrich or else we will split the conservative vote and put Romney in. Gringrich is the one best suited to take on Pres Obama in the debates and congress if we are to make significant inroads to taking our country back. Romney’s approach is so uninspiring and looks like business as usual except we won’t continue deficit spending. That’s probably why the establishment wants Romney.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    nt…

  • jakeofalltrades

    Bowels in, even though we get the same result: Obama.

  • alfromfl

    in the general election is possible only if a majority of voters have abandoned our constitutional republican form of government and buy the secular socialist view. I don’t believe that the majority of Americans want more of Obama’s policies. The next president of the U.S. will be Romney or Gringrich – the conservatives will decide that by either voting for Gringrich or splitting their vote.

  • zaac

    If nonChristians want to support someone who supports a false god, then they should because they don’t belong to Christ.

    But what sense does it make for those who have been saved by Christ to support someone who supports a false god?

    Christians belong to CHRIST. And thus they should be rendering their love to HIM FIRST and not that which is against Him.

  • acat

    I’m not saying anything deep here, just that there’s “civil authority” (Caesar, being a clear follower of the Roman pantheon at the time) and “spiritual authority”.

    I’m not arguing the merit of one over the other, kipling, nor disputing your or zaac or beckers’ right to vote your faith. I’m merely pointing out that the conflict zaac has appears rooted in his misunderstanding.

    Mew

  • gracie

    would be organized by our dear Leader, EE to be huge and effective. Like I said I have seen them in the past two years…I am thinking EE might not do one unless he had endorsed that person. There are thousands of folks who read here and they might bring in their friends. :)

    What I was dreaming was if Perry does as well tonight as Sat, the powers that be here and elsewhere would acknowledge he is the one who should be in Santorum’s place and show him some real support. To me that would look like an endorsement and a money bomb.

    Then…the really big money supporters would see that the grassroots has not given up and would keep giving him money until Santorum fades. Now of course I cannot really affect EE, I can only ask. But Perry seems to be the right guy but is having trouble getting the support he needs…some his fault by the debates but hugely assisted by the establishment and the media.

    When it was done for Scott Brown, it was asked that we raise 1/2 million and that was done by mid day so we went for the whole million and it was done! It would send such a message as well as needed support!

    BTW, I just saw on TV that Perry states he is going on to Florida even if he does not win SC. That shows to me he is determined to be the anti-Romney! Can’t we support him if he is willing to try his heart out??

  • acat

    Romney would be much better than Obama.

    The trouble is, he’s a very weak candidate and I’m not convinced he can win the general, but if he sews up the nomination, I won’t say another negative thing about him.

    Mew

  • WillWong

    CEO of the GAP stores and prior to that, the President of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts. Two different people! Don’t think there is any connection!

  • kipling

    Paying taxes was a lawful obligation. Voting is a right – a right that one can exercise by voting or by choosing not to vote.

    You use the word “participate” to cover a lot of distinction.

    If you can make a case then please do so. Otherwise you are just making an assertion.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Let’s say Christians make up enough of a country to swing an election, but not to get their people in office.

    The two major parties A and B are made up of godless heathens in a heathen nation. But they give Christians the right to vote.

    Party A runs on a platform of equality for all. Party B runs on a platform of killing all the Christians.

    Would you, in this situation, be duty-bound not to vote?

  • zaac

    And I’ve explained about Gingrich. Much like a pastor who has had multiple affairs, I don’t believe he needs to be in a position of leadership, and thus I would not support him.. If he is contrite about what he did, then spend the rest of his years serving Christ locally through his church instead of venturing back into politics.

  • fightnright

    I just can’t help wondering if Sarah Palin or Rick Santorum and their families (or for that matter Jesus, considering and respecting the thread topic ) would be as enthusiastic if reading redstate and coming across the term ‘tards’.

    (However, Neil, mbecker and jake, and other redstaters, I’m asking forgiveness for posting out of thread context, here. Obviously the whole event was a surprise to me, but I know I should not/cannot refer to this in redstate again if it comes up, no matter my personal feelings about it. sorry. )

  • avgjo

    What does that first sentence have to do with anything I said?

    As to your second, I never said they should or shouldn’t and again, what does that have to do with anything?

    Please give me the Biblical basis for your statement that ‘non-christians are Caesar.’

    This craziness exemplifies what I’m talking about that infects the church. Maybe if US Christians spent more time getting fellow Americans saved and doing the various things God tells us to do in the Bible, and less time whining and moaning and lamenting how unfair everything is, we’d have better choices in candidates.

  • jakeofalltrades

    But voting for Mitt means you’re not a RINO with your bowels hanging out.

  • zaac

    I don’t deal in hypotheticals. I deal with reality. :)

  • alfromfl

    in the debates a sound knowledge of the issues and what the fundamental problems America faces. Romney, on the other hand shows a more shallow politician’s face. The arguement that Romney has the best chance to win does not make sense. If the so=called independents want more of Obama, then it doesn’t matter who the republicans run. If they don’t, then the republicans will win unless they really blow it. The only people claiming that the republicans and tea party folks are radical are those so far left that they can’t see far enough to even find the true middle. That includes the news media. Grincrich seems to be the one best suited to lead this country forward. Romney seems to be the one best organized and funded at this time. Be couragous and vote your conscience for America and not who the media says can win.

  • Scope

    That there is no connection? Do you know for sure that they are not related? I don’t believe you can, because that information isn’t available anywhere I looked.

  • aesthete

    1) Though I agree, it’s not really relevant to my point. My point is that social conservatives made the positive change that they set out to make to the extent that it can be made, at present. They have made the Republican party a thoroughly pro-life party, both at the state and federal level. They have also made judges that interpret the Constitution literally a priority. (Those are good things.)

    2) RE abortion: uh… yes, agreed. See point #1. The vast majority of the other issues of importance to social conservatives cannot be acted by the federal government upon sans Constitutional amendment, and work better as state issues, anyways — if they are even issues relevant to the political sphere at all. The “War on Christmas”, for example, has absolutely nothing to do with anything but perhaps the most local of governments.

    3) Agreed. See point #1 :)

    4) For my part, I would have preferred John McCain as President (though choosing between him and Bush would be the equivalent of deciding between dying of frostbite or infected wound, IMO). To be clear, I am talking about *organizations* which trade support for favors, and generally endorse candidates who go on to ignore or repudiate fiscal conservatives. I.e., Bush II, Elizabeth Dole, Dennis Hastert, Tom Delay, etc. Many defense PACs and organizations suffer from this same problem, and moderate organizations definitely do. However, the base seems to have more of a blind spot in the case of “social conservative” organizations doing this than they do for moderates doing the exact same thing. (It ties into the “pro-life statists” theme that Erick has been discussing recently.)

    5) GWB’s administration not a socially conservative one? That’s true only to the point that it did not realize literally everything on the social conservative wishlist, and past that point it becomes absurd. Not all personnel in any administration, no matter how socially conservative, is going to agree 100% with social conservatives on everything — anymore than all senior government and military personnel under Abraham Lincoln were sympathetic to ending the practice of slavery in the US. Just about every social policy at the federal level promoted as a major initiative by GWB was socially conservative, and GWB put more priority on same than any President in the past (including Reagan).

    6) Agreed. Apologies if the distinction between leadership/organizations and grassroots wasn’t clear.

    7) No, just the premature cancellation of Firefly and the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand :P

  • jakeofalltrades

    duh

  • acat

    Fortunately, as you’ve already confirmed that you won’t be voting, I can ignore your opinion both before and after the election.

    Those who won’t get off their couches (or church pews) and get involved in politics also get the government they deserve.

    The trouble is, you make it harder for those of us who are involved to get anything done.

    Get out of the way, slacker.

    Mew

  • avagreen

    like EE would do much to show the politick world at large that people have not given up on Perry.

    And, yes, a mil or a-half would go a long way.
    In a thank-you letter I got from their Perry org, they said their goal was $250,000 BEFORE the SC election.

    As far as his being willing to try his heart out? :) That’s our guy. We’ve been down this road many-a-time before…..3x to be exact. That’s why we aren’t giving up on him.

    Perry’s been down and out before…. *smile* Familiar territory for him and his supporters.

    He runs silent. He runs deep. Anyone who dismisses him is doing so at their own peril. And anyone who will hitch their wagon to him will do their reputation and career a …….great service. For being so astute.

    .

  • jakeofalltrades

    why the sudden change of heart? Because your beliefs are unjustifiable? Or because you don’t feel competent to justify them?

  • kipling

    Every vote must make that personal decision based upon the criteria they choose. It is one thing to be obedient to a government. It is another thing to give a government your personal endorsement.

    Christians will be faced with the decision:

    Do I vote for an atheistic narcissist?

    Do I vote for a Mormon who holds beliefs quite different from traditional Christian beliefs?

    Or, do I sit this one out?

    If Romney does not want a significant percentage of the people to choose option three, then he needs to come up with an answer other than “Vote for me or you are a religious bigot!”

  • pttx333

    choices we would face – damned if ya do, damned if ya don’t. Same ol’ same ol’ any way you cut it. (Dang, did I just use the word “cut”?)

    Do you know that I purposely did not see this movie? I figured it would be far too gory for me – looks like I called it right on that decision! ;-)

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    A nation’s leader is not a pastor. Your ideas would have left our world short of many very necessary people in the past like Eisenhower, and Winston Churchill.

    Here is just a wild Idea, maybe, perhaps, just maybe, the best person to lead a nation is the person with the best ideas and not the guy who sounds most like a sunday school teacher.

  • zaac

    Biblically get that individual voting adults are Caesar? I’m an individual voting adult and I belong to Christ, not to this world.

  • jakeofalltrades

    I won’t post it here, but let’s just say there’s a scene where Dr. Lecter serves a man his own brain, which he cooks up in small pieces in the fondu.

  • snowshooze

    And that stated, I am for Perry. Yes, biased.
    Romney falls apart in debate when he is pulled off-script.
    And his entire script is either right from the GOP bible, or his own fabrications about his history.
    We saw it more than once. It wasn’t a Perry stumble… it was a Mitt Meltdown.
    Obama will eat his lunch and laugh.
    Oh, did you see the new video of Project Veritas? In New Hampshire?
    It was great.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    because you have taken the christian faith and reduced it to a string of absurd legalities instead of trying to use the judgement that god gave you.

  • avagreen

    *tongue hanging out and stars for eyes*

  • acat

    Same stupid, different label…

    Mew

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    You’ve done nothing more than to find what you are representing as sound reasoning for your personal bias.

    You may be a Christian, but your sound knowledge is all sound.

    You insist, for example, that a true believer cannot vote for someone who is not a Christian, or for whatever reason doesn’t measure up to your standards of what a Christian should be. Let’s expand on that.

    Is it OK for a Christian to do business with a non-believer? After all, you’re giving them the means to propagate their unbelief. And, if they are a religious non-Christian (a Mormon or a Muslim for example) you are giving them the means to engage in what will amount to “holy war” against Christians in a variety of ways, from proselytizing to acts of terror. A reasonable and logical conclusion would be that sort of behavior would be equally offensive to God because you’re giving people who don’t worship Him the ability to not only “build idols” but to engage in spiritual warfare.

    How about sending your kids to a school that doesn’t respect or honor God and teaches, among other things, that all religions – or no religion – are equal? Offensive to God?

    zaac, you are, as a pastor once said, “So spiritually minded you’re no earthly good”. In other words, you’ve selectively decided to draw a line in the sand over elected officials, a line that Jesus would likely have had very harsh words with you over.

    You can sing us a song about your conscience or doing God’s will, but it all works down to the basic fact that you’re simply an ignorant fool misusing Scripture to make a bigoted point.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    Ummm, that doesn’t work. It was actually a pretty easy question that should have been able to be handled with some grace. Instead, we get you setting yourself up as the final arbiter of that which is Godly and that which is not.

    Not a good horse to be riding zaac.

  • avgjo

    IT appears I gave you too much credit at the outset. I thought you were one of those folks I meet all the time in church who only study the Bible. At least a lot of them can apply what they’ve learned.

    Caesar = powers that be. In America, the voting individual is the power that is. Until Christians are not allowed to vote, we’re included in that category. Jesus said ‘Come, let us reason’. I followed His instructions.

    Zaac, you illustrate perfectly why Christians are so often stereotyped as ignorant and backwards. You might ask yourself if you’re playing a role in bringing reproach on the name of the Lord by doing so.

    But let me guess: I belong to the world and you belong to Christ. Therefore I’m wrong and you’re right.

    Roger that, buddy.

  • jakeofalltrades

    <a href=”https://twitter.com/#!/rickperryfacts” target=”_blank”>Rick Perry</a> doesn’t have or need blood. He is filled with magma.

    <a href=”" target=”_blank”>Countdown</a> Until Obama Leaves Office.

  • gracie

    n/t

  • jakeofalltrades

    <a href=”https://twitter.com/#!/rickperryfacts” target=”_blank”>Rick Perry</a> doesn’t have or need blood. He is filled with magma.

    <a href=”http://www.obamaclock.org” target=”_blank”>Countdown</a> Until Obama Leaves Office.

    —-

    That should do it.

  • acat

    Seems pretty clear that’s the direction he’s going in, taking the religious right for granted. “After all, who else are they going to vote for?”

    Could it be that he believes McCain’s press?

    (hint: McCain didn’t lose, despite various whining to the contrary, due to lack of evangelical support .. he lost because he lost the “independents”)

    Mew

  • acat

    It kinda jumped out at me….

    Mew

  • kipling

    Where did Jesus say “Come, let us reason.”?

  • WA_Cowboy

    hosted a meeting of two conservative Christian leaders* in Eastern WA in his home. We came to the conclusion that we need to maintain our firm support for Governor Rick Perry. Therefore we issue the following statement:

    “Rick Perry has, in our opinion, the best tools at his disposal to win a general election against Barack Obama. He has remained committed to family values, life and faith, in addition to having an excellent track record as governor of Texas. We stand united in our support of Governor Perry.”

    This statement is only published here at redstate.

  • WA_Cowboy

    * and yes, I use the term “leader” quite loosely. In this case, it means me and my wife.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    qualified to be President (or another elective office). It most certainly is not a personal endorsement. Many of us – me particularly – voted for McCain in 08 because we felt that Obama would be a complete disaster for the nation. He has been. I personally can’t stand McCain – I like Romney better – but I voted for him because I felt he would do less damage than Obama.

    As far as voting for a narcissist, I seriously doubt there has ever been a Presidential candidate who wasn’t. Goes with the territory.

    As far as holding beliefs that are “…quite different from traditional Christian beliefs”, that is a total straw-man argument. We’re not electing a pastor or a Bishop, we’re electing someone to run the secular affairs of the nation. Would I prefer a highly qualified Christian Conservative? Yes. Am I going to have to opportunity to vote for one? Probably not, unless Perry really catches fire.

    I personally find Santorum’s self positioning as a “conservative” infinitely more offensive than Romney’s insistence that he’s a “Christian”.

    When all is said and done, the question should be “which of these candidates is better right now for the nation and the American people”. Any other consideration is a fools errand.

  • snowshooze

    And he didn’t do anything to brace Obama.
    He had a zillion opportunities… and failed to take advantage of any of them.
    Were the ticket Palin/McCain… it would have been different, even with Sarah’s huge gaps in knowledge beyond Alaska State Politics..
    She would have taken it straight to Obama.
    I am certain she was muzzled.

  • kipling

    It may very well be what he is going for but it is not a winner.

  • avagreen

    THIS is why Rombo is trying so hard to knock Perry out now.

    Just funning around and getting simpled out (need to eat):
    Did a numerology thing on both:

    Romney’s name AND birth came up with an ’8″ = 8. Practical endeavors, status oriented, power-seeking, high-material goals.

    Perry’s name AND birth came up with an “3″. 3. Expression, verbalization, socialization, the arts, the joy of living.

    I’m gonna find some nourishment. My brain needs some direction. :)

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    Standard conventions relating to written communication, especially in a forum such as this, are that ALL CAPS indicate shouting.

  • avagreen

    I’ll get right on that…….

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    But in troll baiting, as in comedy, timing is everything. :-)

  • WA_Cowboy

    apologies to CC if any offense given by my comment. just found it humorous that four evangelical leaders would get together and issue a statement. couldn’t resist the opportunity to display some snark.

  • acat

    to actually win the White House without doing *some* outreach to the base .. and while he’s not flippin’ the bird as Huntsman did, he’s not reaching out effectively either.

    Mew

  • avagreen

    **

  • acat

    MBecker is my master now. (Cheshire grin)

    Mew

  • jakeofalltrades

    I bow to thee, sir.

  • avgjo

    You know, that whole Trinity thing, Jesus is LORD. Cf. Deuteronomy 6:4

    Is that really all you got?

  • kipling

    You can play word games – endorsement, choice, vote, etc – all day long but Romney has to give people a reason to vote for him. He cannot disregard qualms that people have about his policies or his religion. He / we cannot afford to take anything for granted.

    As Moe once said, if you tell someone to just take their ball and go home, don’t be surprised when they do.

    You may dismiss the Mormon issue as a strawman argument but it has already entered the campaign. Team Romney sucks at responding to it. It will have to be addressed – whether you think it is a relevant issue or not, many will.

  • AceInTX

    I didn’t mention Perry, I went after geotan for his Romeny Bot canned answer that always boils down somehow to Rommey people are unwilling to support Romney simply because he’s a Mormon because there simply cannot be any other reason to opposed the Man/God Mitt

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    I’m neither seeking nor am I entitled to significant titles carrying authority. That would have fallen to Franz Prince of Dogness, and with his passing titles and authority were passed down to Mrs908. Should she go first, she takes them with her.

    I’m just the old curmudgeon.

  • jakeofalltrades

    People put Jefferson and Churchill and Acat down there. I’m definitely not worthy.

  • avgjo

    that question was directed at zaac.

    Yeah, to answer your question more straightforwardly.

    Romans 10:9-13, we see ‘Jesus is LORD’. The Isaiah passage referred to puts the words in the LORD’s mouth. a=b,b=c, a=c.

    Further, consider John chapter 1 and Genesis 18 where Abraham is visited by the Godhead on Mamre. In both the English translation and Hebrew ( I received my Hebrew instruction from an Orthodox Israeli), the narrative switches between referring to the visitor(s) in the third person singular and the third person plural.

  • AceInTX

    and who knows whether Romney agrees with me on anything from one minute to the next because he’ll change his position as soon as it suits him

  • pttx333

    own brain, cooked in small pieces in the fondu? And so, the guy’s sitting there watching this? Alive? Aware? Whut???? (No, that isn’t a typo – that is Texas talk. ;-) ) Twilight Zone stuff you’re talkin’ about here, jake! YUCKO – damn, I made a mighty fine decision long ago to avoid that movie at all costs!

  • avagreen

    nt

  • kipling

    Then perhaps you should watch your mouth. I asked a simple question and you begin to talk smack. If Isaiah 1:18 is the basis for your comment then you really have nothing to say here.

    How about:

    “There is a way that seems right to a man. But in the end it leads to destruction.”

    Reason always bows to revelation and the Word of God.

  • avgjo

    also 2nd person plural and singular.

  • avgjo

    also 2nd person plural and singular.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    And I absolutely agree that Romney has to give people a reason to vote for him.

    What I said is NOT a relevant issue is whether or not Romney (and by extension, followers of LDS) are Christians. Some will choose to not vote for Romney because of that and they are bigots and fools. I also think the number will not, in the general election, be large and will be more than offset by motivated Mormons who will make sure to vote for one of their own and will encourage others to do so. Say what we will about Mormon theology, but they’ve got the organization thing down pat. I am guessing his faith will be a net plus.

    And you are right, we can’t take anything for granted. We’re not known as the Stupid Party for nothing.

  • avgjo

    I apologized and stated that I directed that ‘smack’ at zaac, who’s already gotten on my nerves.

    The rest of your statement doesn’t dignify a response beyond that it is uninformed and irrelevant.

  • kipling

    Please forgive an old man.

    I see now where you were headed in your comment.

  • Michael Dugas

    So acknowledging you are incapable is a STEP in the right direction..
    /snark off

    Just kidding….humor is the only way I have to deal with my depression that Perry has gotten zero traction and that there isn’t another honest to goodness small government conservative in the bunch.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    is that there is high probability that Romney will agree with us (as in you and me) more often that Obama.

  • kipling

    You must type fast and have a higher speed connection.

  • marktx

    …and you know what ? Santorum might be correct.

    I was willing to give Romney the benefit of the doubt up until I heard Governor Haley’s reasoning on why she endorsed Romney. She said that Romney told her he would repeal Obamacare the day he takes office (which is impossible) and then went on to say something very revealing.

    Governor Haley suggested that Romney would issue waivers to states that want them because he believes health insurance should be a states rights issue where each state makes its own laws, ie, like Romneycare in Massachusetts. The problem with that is that any state with a democrat governor would refuse the waiver, leaving ObamaCare in place.

    The bottom line – Romney cannot be trusted to repeal or replace Obamacare with private market based insurance.

  • AceInTX

    if it’s a Jew who agrees with you on every point, you won’t vote for them because they are a Jew?

    What of a Catholic?

    Are you a Protestant?

    Where do you draw the line there moron?

    will you not vote for a Baptist who otherwise agrees with you on every point politically?

    or a Methodist?

    Or a church of the Nazarene?

    Do you refuse to vote for a Calvinist who otherwise lines up with your every point politically because he doesn’t line up with your views on predestination?

    Or is the opposite the case and you won’t vote for a non Calvinist?

    where do you draw the line Moron?….I’m curious?

  • avgjo

    I’m exactly guilty of the same thing.

    I feel really bad now that I’ve found you’re older. Please forgive me, a foolish, dumb youth.

  • avgjo

    Please look below.

    Again, I’m ashamed and sorry.

  • kipling

    If he gets the nomination, I want to see who he plans to put in the administration. I especially want to see who will head HHS and the EPA.

    The VP slot should not buy off the base.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    We could beat each other with our canes.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    being a christian means that you recognize that all have sin, and we all fall short, so we need not try to judge the belief or piety of others,

    And furthermore, none of it has anything to do with being a good leader. Golda Mier was a great leader, so was Ghandi. On the other hand Bill Clinton and Barack Obama both go to church regularly.

  • AceInTX

    I oppose Romney 100%…but not because he’s a Mormon….but because she a shifty, slimy sleazeball who will say and do anything to get elected and can’t be trusted to tell us what he’ll do and stick by it…

    but not because he’s Mormon.

    again I’ll tell you…if you want to have a faith based discussion about what is wrong doctrinally, scripturally, scientifically or from any other angle, I’ll likely take your side in the argument…

    but tell me that I am doing something wrong by voting for someone I otherwise agree with 100% just because of the church they go to is wrong…period

  • avgjo

    And frankly, Mr. Kipling deserves the chance, as do you.

    I have gotten much better, but I still let my temper fly ahead of my sense sometimes.

    I’m sorry.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    Wondered when you’d get here. It’s always boring without you.

    Unfortunately, I have a feeling this idiot figured out he was in a tad over his head a while ago. I hope he comes back, darn Moe keeps banning the fun ones.

  • nepanyrush

    This commentary exactly summarizes my view of Newt Gringrich:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jan/15/curl-goodbye-newt-and-good-riddance/

    Until Iowa, I actually bought into the narrative that this was a new Newt Gingrich — that he became a Catholic and had changed his stripes. But he has not. He is the same massively flawed, egotistical person who embarrased the GOP as speaker and helped engineer the government shutdown because Clinton made him leave the back of the plane. Gingrich really does not care about the GOP or even beating Obama — he all about himself. He is on a scorched-earth campaign, and suckered Perry into his bizarre attack on free enterprise. I do not believe for one minute he could win a general election. Even my own daughter and wife, solid conservatives, said they cannot vote for him because he cheated on two wives. He is an ethical mess. And right now, he came in 4th in Iowa and 5th in New Hampshire, despite his high profile. He made such a mess of the speakership that the conservatives wanted him out.

    Right now, it is clear that only Santorum has a chance among the Republicans. And, unlike Gingrich, he has won twice a statewide office, not just a congressional district. Gingrich needs to be asked to leave before he ruins the chance for a conservative victory.

  • acat

    We agree yet again.

    Mew

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    has slowed down from “terminal” to “huh”.

    And trust me, you don’t own the franchise on temper.

  • kipling

    It was my temper that started it all.

  • pttx333

    do that! Perry will rise again – there are many more votes to be cast, and I haven’t send hide nor hair of the fat lady!

    Keep the faith!

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    playing cards with you, acat, jsob, neil, and some of the others while we gum our food. maybe we could sneak a nip of firewater past the nurses.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    they probably can’t be bought. Anybody I’d approve of would probably piss off at least 60% of the base.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    21 year old Glenfiddich.

    A good age for scotch. Way too young for a woman.

  • fightnright

    and ‘fight’nright’ for here; the terms shouldn’t matter nearly so much. Whenever I go off on a tangent like this, I find myself remorseful, considering the hard work of Erick, Neil, and all the other moderators here, trying daily to lift the heavier loads of the greater agenda that we all are praying to achieve.

    My excuse is years of work with the brain-injured young people’s community, meeting so many brave and hard working individuals there, managing despite odds many of us would fold up against. Plus I’ve just been away from redstate for for a while as my elderly Dad had a fairly serious fall in December that temporarily hurt (from the neurologist’s lips to God’s ears please) his cognitive abilities. Thus was I then introduced to another community – of elders dealing, often valiantly – with the effects of brain injury and/or dementia.

    So I’ve been lately sensitized to these issues. But I won’t deny that here this is clearly a subset of the topics that should be taking center stage, and as defined in Erick’s posting. Was seeing it as a Conservative respect for life, values issue, perhaps, which IS highly important to me, but that is my only rationalization. I may not like some matters of style, but Erick, Neil and friends… they’re the bosses after all.

    eccchhh :/

  • surfcitysocal

    As I read Erickson?s close, I can?t help but think of an article by Steve Deace in Townhall ( http://m.townhall.com/columnists/stevedeace/2011/12/03/we_wont_get_fooled_againor_will_we/page/full/
    ) in noting the failure of Christians to enjoy a single policy victory in over 30 years?that is, that Christians began to think of themselves as sovereign over the process, instead of God. I believe God will honor evangelicals? votes if they put it in God?s hands. Maybe not in the way that evangelicals would like, perhaps. And, not in Erickson?s view apparently. He feels it lies entirely with strategy which has gotten us exactly nowhere in 30 years.

    I?ve thought for a long time that the way we?re going to change people?s minds regarding abortion is by bringing them to the saving knowledge of Christ?one heart at a time. Perhaps that applies to politics in general as well. When Christians were being killed in the Roman arenas, some may have prayed that God would destroy the arenas, or even the rulers and raise up one of their own, but instead, history saw a slow implosion and contraction of an entire political empire?in stunning comparison to the explosive spread of the message of Jesus. God heard the pleas of the oppressed, I believe, and answered them, but definitely not in the way that any human may have guessed.

  • WillWong

    Should be a badge of honor any candidate for the POTUS, imo. As a 50 year old, Newt lost the battle for the public opinion against Slick Willie and he may yet have a hard time against Obama. But it is precisely the bull dog nature of the man that gives us a fighting chance of turning this country around. With Mitt Status Quo Romney and Rick Santorum, we don’t stand a chance, not against Obama, nor against the massive macro forces aligned against us!

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    I took a long long road from being a christian activist back in the 1980′s to being a libertarian conservative. But it is not because I lost my faith, My faith is strong, it is because I have become convinced that you have to change people first before you can change their actions.

    And even if you could force people to behave the way you want them to, but did not change their hearts, they would find ways to rebel, and society would be worse off than before.

  • kipling

    If Obama gets another term, we might not be able to enjoy any of those things.

  • acat

    for an old folk’s home.

    I don’t plan to live long enough to need one, mind, but .. thanks.

    Mew

  • JSobieski

    I only wish our candidates could be as pithy.

  • acat

    You get the picture.

    Mew

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    we may be able to get the good Cuban cigars.

  • buddyp

    That line reminds me of what a professor once told me in business school.

    Regarding a paper he had assigned, I asked him how long the paper should be. After saying “don’t quote me on this” (and I’m not giving his name, of course), he said:

    “It should be like a woman’s skirt: short enough to be interesting but long enough to cover the subject.”

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    and all that. We’ll be happy to see you. Scotch and cigars are on you. We’ll get you women.

  • AceInTX

    It goes without saying he’s better than Obama only in that Stalin is better than Satan himself…

    But that doesn’t make it any easier to swallow either

  • greyeagle

    The sad part is that they endorsed Santorum, who can’t win. Perry had the organization and funds, but Santorum doesn’t. Consequently, I will ignore these Evangelicals and vote Perry. Actually if Santorum drops out, he will endorse Romney. Wait and see.

  • nocontest

    Love the quote Buddy. Cheers

  • buddyp

    I’ll be brief. (ok, a pun on a tangent — skirts to briefs, maybe a bit forced, but whaddaya want for nuthin’?)

    Oh, and the shortest joke I know is based on a pun:

    “A cannibal passed his friend in the woods.”

  • http://theo-politico.blogspot.com theopolitico

    These 150 evangelicals were in wide and entrenched disagreement before they came together. But they came in humility, listened carefully to each other, fervently prayed with each other, fellowshiped with one another, and ultimately came to a consensus that was so overwhelming that it was nothing short of miraculous! As St. Luke says in Acts of the Apostles, they were all in one accord.

    http://www.thestate.com/2012/01/13/2111262/santorum-bold-solutions-for-americas.html

    Erickson must paint any picture of Santorum in the worst possible light simply because he has been so utterly dismissive of his campaign from the very beginning. If Santorum wins, Erickson loses all his prognosticating credibility. Indeed, Santorum’s win in Iowa, his defeat of Gingrich and Perry in NH, and his effective campaign in SC already has lost him all credibility on this issue.

    http://theo-politico.blogspot.com/2012/01/ulterior-motive-behind-red-states-erick.html

  • kipling

    I can agree with most of the points but #7 went too far! : )

    I am currently enjoying Firefly through streaming on Amazon. If I thought a social conservative bore any responsibility, I would break out the pitchforks.

    Have a good night.

  • Locke

    nt

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    It’ three plus years and I still have a bad taste in my mouth from pulling the lever for McCain.

  • freedom555

    …is that his new stance against contraception may be righteous……and it may win him the respect of evangelicals (And my respect too though I disagree)…

    …very, very few moral-issues voters would support ending contraception.

  • jakeofalltrades

    is the Heart Plugs in the movie Dune… where the government installs little plugs in your heart so that if you ever displease your betters, they can just pull it out, and that’s the end of you.

  • jakeofalltrades
  • http://www.changeforrickperry.org louisianapatriette

    I think that’s the biggest sustained smile that’s been on my face all day. Don’t feel bad, avagreen–sometimes I have a do-or-die battle with HTML. Thank goodness I have a techno-expert brother :D

  • http://www.changeforrickperry.org louisianapatriette

    Praise the Lord for RedState–helps me forget barn troubles for a while!

  • ohtimtim

    Jim Dobson was forced out of Focus on the Family by a more liberal Board of Directors a year or so ago. He has since started a new radio show with his son, Ryan, called “James Dobson on the Family”. I believe the “new” Focus is more along typical liberal lines of social rather than evangelical Christianity.

  • Locke

    x a person, is an adherent or follower of x, probably a blind or unthinking follower.

    Unfortunately, my understanding remains untutored because I can find little on the web on this subject. Of course it is possible that it is the slow or late meaning as in “tardy, retarded, tardo, tarry, tardive, tardigrade”,

    Villhauer

    I would be very interested in any light that anyone could throw on this.

    Thanks

  • greyeagle

    I watched for an hour and couldn’t watch anymore. This was the Mitt show. Supposedly all questions was 1 1/2 minute answers, but he take anywhere from 2-4 minutes per question. The first question out was an attack by Bret Braier against Newt regarding the ad by his super pac against Bain and Mitt Romney. Newt answered well, then Bret went after Perry, who knocked it out of the park. The crowd cheered and Bret had a real sour look. When I finally had had enough, neither Perry or Newt had gotten more than 1 or 2 questions in an hours. FOX was simply up to their usual tricks in pushing Romney. Perry said Mitt, you should release your income tax records. The audience cheered and Mitt was knocked off center. He was talking a lot, but easily rattled. The GOP wants this guy to debate Obama? What a joke!

  • cactusjack

    it is historical fact Huck played, or adroitly let be played, the “Mormon Card” against Mitt Romney. It cost Mitt support; viewed now in the long run of history it was one more of several interlocking Republican missteps that put McCain in as our nominee andthus Obama in as President. That’s all history not speculation Ace, and Romney’s ground team would be foolish not be ready for it again.

  • cactusjack

    I guess what I resent is how *some* evangelicals feel themselves at full liberty to to a “drive by” on Mormon Doctrine (as well as doctinal speculations to whch any theologians are entitled) and handle certain beliefs it like chopped liver – and here on the pages of RedState(!?) Neil used to blam this stuff pretty fast, I guess I have been away too long. Be careful folks, there is no religion what does not have some unique doctrines, or beliefs that require contexual reading t before they can atlleastbe understood (if not agreed to) by those outside the faith.Transubstaniation, angels dancing on the head of a pin, grace without works – & oh don’t forget some really* outrageous* things said in the past by evangelical preachers about God not hearing anyone elses prayers except a certain denomination’s. They say if a falsity it isnt refuted immediately it “sticks” – well here goes – you are 180 degrees wrong about Mormonism and the Indians – LDS doctrine is, they are a favored people and were treated as such (Brigham Young: “Feed ‘em dont fight em” – you may quote me on that) and, one of the reasons the Mormons were run out of Missouri in 1840 (besides the Extermination Order from Gov Boggs)was, it was known they (the Mormons) were antislavery – Bleeding Kansas was right around the corner. Those are the facts. Be happy to debateyou on any doctinral points you wish. Including documented history – just not here on RedState,and not if its only purpose is to do a drive by on Mitt’ s’ faith.

  • cactusjack

    (faire disclosure I am LDS) What kind of traffic control is going on here? Neil ? Anybody? I have just been called a heathen up-column, and I really get the feeling here zaac just doesn’t like me *personallly* for my religion, however he might retract later from this post (BTW zaac I believe I am a Christian, I do accept the Atonement of Him for me but that is also probably thowing you into fits and paroxysms) But back to good conservative politics which is what I thought (??) this site was about -you say ” if Romney is the nominee…stay home or write in a candidate…” Sheer political madness, man!. Hope you enjoy the four more years of Obama you will assuredly get with that line of thinking. Believe me they (Obama campaign) are countingon conservatives like you to f racture and stay home. So you’llwillingly do that for him? As for me I am still planing on voting for anyone “R” except Paul., But if you and a few millions like you do what you espouse here, I predict you will have your MajorNicholson moment in Dec 2012 (see last five minutes of film “Bridge Over the River Kwai (1959).”

  • cactusjack

    for example, Jesuit Priests some who would say, if you were not baptized with (their) authoirty – sorry!!. This is a political site, though, and a lot of people here are trying to help you with your conservative politcs.

  • cactusjack

    Huck played the “Mormon Card” on Mitt in the primaries in 2008 and it cost Mitt. Everybody knows this – everybody. Romney and his staff would be just stupid not to have at least planned for dealing with it it this time around.

  • JSobieski

    Why is that that every attempt to deal with LDS ends up with a clear mischaracterization of the Catholic Church?

  • pttx333

    to get him out of here – this is a moby or similar type goofball. They’ve have zapped others, but haven’t gotten this one yet. They will.

    Welcome back. I came here in August and like it here. Hope you will ignore idiots and morons.

  • cactusjack

    I was just going for thepoint by way of logical conclusion that a Catholic priest is not going to let a Protestantminister walk into his parish, take control & conduct services and impart sacraments of the church, Aint gonna happen. And the minister (just being hypothetical) might leave feeling he had a great visit, but would be quickly corrected should he proclaim he was “now a member of the Catholic church.” You colud swap in any demonmiations in this example btw – again just trying to make a point of logic. Hope no offense taken and correct me where I am wrongif iyouy see the need.

  • redmymind

    I’m not sure how the Society of Jesus (Jesuits), a religious order within the Catholic Church, fits in to this discussion. If you need some help understanding or clarifying the doctrinal and disciplinary teachings of the Catholic Church, please don’t hesitate to respond. I’d be happy to help.

  • salj

    Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed;when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
    If you’re a Christian you have to ignore the truth to vote against Rick Perry.
    If you’re a Christian you have to ignore the truth to vote for Romney.

  • AceInTX

    Am I Huckabee? are ALL people who consider themselves social conservatives Huckabee…You paint and smear us ALL with a broad brush.

    It is as bigotted for Romney to smear us ALL with the brush of anti Mormon Bigotry as anything I EVER heard said against Romney and the Mormon Church…Not only is it biggotted, it is collosally STUPID to tar people who Romney will need to support him once he’s the nominee with Anti-Mormon Bigotry…it grates on the nerves and enfuriates me..

    I’ve said this a thousand times and I’ll say it again…I started out the 2008 as someone who could and would eventually back Romney and do so happily…and today, I’m at the moint where…if I ever met him I’d spit in his face for the disgusting, arrogant, and petulent way he’s tarred me and the base of this party.

    So…win the nomination by smearing all of us and then expect us to happily unite behind you after you’ve dragged our good names, or reputations and our good intentions theough the mud?

    God luch with that!

  • jakeofalltrades

    So the irrelevance of my comment to yours is… irrelevant.

  • avagreen

    Jan. 17, 2012

    The growing sentiment I see, if only anecdotally, is that Fox News has become an arm of the Mitt Romney campaign, taking with it Sean Hannity. This GOP campaign season has created a wreckage of the conservative message as the big guns at Fox prioritized defeating Obama over principle.

    Of particular note, Fox News analyst Dick Morris and pollster Frank Luntz have been particularly cruel to Rick Perry, as well as the other “non-Romneys.” Here, in a moment of truth, Fox News pollster Frank Luntz is caught on tape in the foyer of the Radisson Hotel in New Hampshire, assessing Romney’s competition. “Rick Perry is George Bush, without the intellect,” he said, before realizing he was being filmed:

    Frank Luntz on Governor Perry, “He’s George W. Bush without the intellect”

    Dick Morris has been harsh on Perry since Perry’s entry into the race. “I don’t want to spend the rest of this year defending Perry’s statement that Social Security is a ponzi scheme,” Morris said in one of his daily “lunch” videos way back in September. The Morris lunch videos are quite good, actually. But I got sick of the anti-Perry stuff and stopped watching. And I stopped caring about his opinion on Fox News, too.

    Morris, whose history lends him to be sympathetic to Herman Cain, spent the better part of six weeks in the role of being Cain’s pimp during this election season. And even after Cain’s disgrace, he is STILL pushing 9-9-9 on us.

    Don’t let me get started with Karl Rove.

    Is Fox News, Hannity, Greta, Rove, Morris, and Luntz dead to you? Are they pushing Romney upon us prematurely? If so, please share your opinion at the bottom of today’s story.

    Yesterday was Rick Perry’s best appearance in all of the debates. Even Fox News contributor Mike Huckabee said on Fox & Friends this morning that Perry’s last two performances, at the Huck forum in South Carolina this past weekend, and last night’s debate, were outstanding. But, Huckabee acknowledged (because he is, after all a Fox News paid informant), that Perry’s excellence is too little, too late. So (he implied), vote for Romney.

    Here are the video recaps of Perry’s debate performance last night, along with links to excellent analysis (click here).

    Rick Perry at the South Carolina debates last night.
    Joe Hyde
    joe.hyde@hydeinteractive.com
    Rick Perry Report
    (Not affiliated with any campaign)

    http://rickperryreport.com/article/2012-01-17/perry-sc-day-9-fox-news-secret-war-conservatives#comment-425

  • avagreen

    Comments needed at bottom of page…

  • duramater

    The strategic denigration of Rick Perry by potential competitors is neither recent nor limited to FOX personnel in this election cycle.

    Here is a sampling from Publius at Breitbart:
    “Perry has steadily improved in the debates, with tonight?s performance being his best, but it may be too little too late. Sad, as I still think he has the record and the temperament to warrant a second look. GOP voters seem stubbornly fixated on never giving him that.”

    “Too little, too late”. When each and every mention of Gov. Perry’s strengths, whether in recent debate format or his many public appearances is followed by the phrase, “too little too late”; taken together with the obvious discriminatory loathing by many so called conservative media hosts to even mention his name on the airways…..Do you think maybe, just maybe that has contributed to the stubborn fixation of GOP-ers NOT to give him the consideration he (Perry) is due?

    Last night in spite of Gov. Perry having several great moments and capitalizing on the limited opportunities given to him, Hannity and the other insipid group of post debate commentators totally ignored him. Hannity interviewed Juan Williams, Juan Williams(!) , but had no time and no mention of Gov. Perry.

    The diminution of Gov. Perry’s bid for the White House seems to have been a strategic goal, going back to commentaries on NPR last Spring. The attempt to smear and distort his support for 10th amendment was evidence back in 2009 when he signed a bill reaffirming same in his state of TX. The false narratives have been out there all this time, whether referring to his regional dialect and speech patterns or falsely suggesting drunkenness at public forums. THAT is the basis for the willful disregard of a solid conservative candidate with a documented, extensively vetted record of accomplishment.

    No wonder Obama’s people think Americans are so stupid that they can’t even chose their own light bulbs. This is exactly the way they used media to dupe their way to Washington last time.

    And Limbaugh and Haley, together, offer yet another example of willful distortion of Gov. Perry’s bonafideds.

    I noted the gallantry and class shown by Gov. Perry when he gave Nikki Haley (and the state) props for going to war with the DOJ over voter ID laws, illegal immigration and the NLRB’s attempt to dictate who and where jobs could be created in a Right to Work state. ….even though Nikki Haley has stabbed this conservative governor in the back by selling out to Mittens.

    In a post debate interview, she does not even mention Perry’s kind reference to her and these struggles. Instead, she reaffirms support for Romney when he made not one reference to any of these issues.

    Rush has tried to defend Haley, claiming she has no choice other than to consider her own future political viability as a Romney advocate. Bull! That’s a cop out excuse that is totally at odds with principled governance. It is that perceived characteristic which placed people like Haley in her current position and her withering under political pressure will knock her out next election.

    My 20-something son contacted me last night after the debate. He is undecided. However, he recognized the disparity in coverage and media’s vile manipulation of public attitudes , including outlets such as FOX.

    Hopefully, the rest of the nation is catching on, too, and soon.

  • avagreen

    I’m back to the same ole/same ole with the sig.

    But, it was fun. :)

  • avagreen

    http://rickperryreport.com/article/2012-01-17/perry-sc-day-9-fox-news-secret-war-conservatives

    Not everyone reads RS. Perry needs all the support he can get.

  • jakeofalltrades

    <a href=”web address goes here: example: http://www.redstate.com“>The text I want to show up for the link goes here.</a>

  • pttx333

    with those who say “Perry is clearly the most conservative with the best record, but it is too little too late?” It is either a blatant coordinated effort to get Perry out of the race by marginalizing him – or – they are so blindly ignorant they can’t see the forest for the trees. Unfortunately, I cannot believe it is anything other than the former – a blatant coordinated effort.

    Rick Perry oozes class and is a true gentleman, and anyone who can’t see that probably wouldn’t recognize class under any circumstances. Regardless, I am stuck to him like a stick-tight unless he says it is time to quit – but I know he won’t say that. I truly believe he will see it to the finish line and be the last one standing!

  • daniel22

    First of all the bit of if you don’t agree with Romney you must be an anti-mormon bigot is a sound an concise description of what is being said by a lot of Romney supporters. Sound familiar? I guess the RNC has borrowed a page from the DNC. After all if you don’t agree with Obama.
    Second is of even greater concern and that is the leadership of the evangelical movement in this country. While the author seems somewhat satisfied at the first level of leadership it is the secondary and support leadership he is even more concerned with. He has a point. If there is a vacuum at that level then there is the real possibility of a collapse of the movement. If there is concern that too many have gone into spreading the word of God then maybe the author should rethink his priorities. If a nations’ spirit is strong then the leaders will follow. You cannot make people go where they do not want to go. More leaders will emerge as needed but first the spirit of this country must be healed and united. Opportunists have a habit of catching themselves so that is of little concern.
    I for one can point out the problems with all of the candidates. I do believe that this time we need to vote for who and what we believe in and not who can win. If the times are going to be tough ahead then don’t you think it makes more sense to vote what you have faith in?

  • celador2

    There is a fool born every minute and the Devil is at work I see. When we violate the First Commandment and make politics GOD this kind of rationalization takes place. Newt is the best politican to make it to WH so therfore I forgive him this and that.

    OK, that sounds like the Pre- reformation Popes! The Christians were outraged that Popes and the Church would give waivers for sin to prominent politicians. Henny II, Henry VI to Henry VIII come to mind.

    Tony Perkins recently made an edit that ‘Evangelicals’ meaning his group, did not hold past transgressions against Newt. The timing was self serving and convenient.

    I recall when mayor Rudy Guiliani held a press conference and kicked his family out of Gracie mansion to be with a scandalous friend in Gracie. The brutality of that public dumping would forever scar his childlren and wife. Even Pat Robertson endorsement of Rudy did not change my mind.

    I decided I would never support him for president out of respect for the family he so destroyed in public. I still stand by that. No amount of dispensation from evangelical popes acting as GOD can change my mind.

    I will decide for whom to vote and character does matter. It matters far more than where a man stands in a cut throat rat race to WH.

  • celador2

    Rick Santorum, Rick Perry and Mitt Romney are good family men.

    Santorum made a name for himself and made popular the ban on partial birth abortion in mid 1990s. He was and is a strong social conservative guided by his faith. I can see why many evangelicals would back this strong Catholic as a man who has been steadly guided by it. Rick Santorum made popular the ban on partial birth abortion. Like an abolitionist of old he stood with his charts and bore witness to that abortion act.

    Gov Perry held a prayer meeting and prayed forgiveness for our sins and guidance for leaders. He too is guided by faith in an open way, its a part of his life.

    Romney if he follows LDS guidelines does not drink, smoke, cuss or drink coffee. He is involved in church and family.

    I take Newt Gingrich’s word for it that he has reformed and repented his sins. Christianity is designed for sinners.

    Evangelicals in politics at conferences ideally seek one who has in common values of faith and community in lifestyle and political values. Do they believe, have a public record and practice what they preach?

    All of us need humility and perspective but none more than a president. The days of John Adams or Lincoln, McKinley TR, Reagan are as alive as the next president makes them.

    Let us have faith to make the right choice on voting and let us pray for the ones running for president to see Light, peace and Love, be upbeat and have faith.

  • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

    Clinton’s veto shut down the Govt.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Your refusal to hand out dispensation is the inverse of the act you criticize Perkins for. If he is wrong, so are you.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Your posting history seems to show you bashing ALL our guys, Rush Limbaugh, and everyone else.

    The only defense I’ve seen you make is of GOProud against CPAC.

  • jakeofalltrades

    Now that’s consistency.

  • APA Guy

    Of course, Newt doesn’t owe US any apologies. He didn’t wrong US by virtue of his personal life.

    Stay focused here…we’re electing a PRESIDENT, not a Pope. His abilities as a policymaker are more VERY relevant given the problems this country faces. His choice of wife? Not so much.