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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

This Goes Both Ways, Right? Some Republicans Start Rooting for Conservative Defeat.

Chris Cilizza as an interesting story in the Washington Post in which some Romney supporters are openly wondering if the Republican Party needs to be wiped out in 2012 in order to win big in 2016.

“I’d personally enjoy all the ‘we can’t nominate another Republican In Name Only’ crowd getting a stomping by an incumbent with an 8.5 unemployment rate,” said one senior party strategist, granted anonymity to speak candidly, warning of nominating a strictly conservative candidate like former Pennsylvania senator Rick Santorum.

My only wonder is if this is a two way street. Because the party is finally deciding to rally to Mitt Romney. I suspect he will win Ohio and, with it, he will begin wrapping up the nomination. And then I think we will see the Democrats unleash unmitigated hell on him in a way in which the GOP is ill prepared.

The Mormon Church will be the first major attack. Then Bain Capital and all the individuals who blame Mitt Romney for their unemployment. Then we’ll get into Romney’s flip-flops. Etc. Etc. Etc. It will be nasty. It will be ugly. And Romney will be left to complain about just how unfair it is that the media isn’t paying as much attention to what Barack Obama’s policies have done to the nation.

And he will lose unless the economy, driven by gas prices and Europe, begins to decline again.

So I hope this is a two way street. If Romney gets stomped by an incumbent with an 8.5% unemployment rate, I hope we can be rid of him and people who give the Washington Post these sorts of quotes.

Of course, then there are people like me who are pretty sure that as much as Romney will struggle against the President, why yes, Rick Santorum would be toast too. We are going against the second coming of Jimmy Carter battling to find the tallest midget to put up against him.

COMMENTS

  • http://www.timothy-bladel.com/ center77

    but if there is a bright side to nominating Romney, it is conservatives will be able to say I told you so, but then again, that has not mattered the last two times, so.

  • johnjohn23

    we can’t win, but if we take that premise as a given, wouldn’t the most logical thing to do is run two candidates?

    First off it would ensure that everyone comes out for us in a way that neither an establishment nor a true conservative would to benefit all the down-ticket races. Second it would finally provide a real, absolute, nationwide referendum on where the party has to go.

    If you concede 2012 and play for 2016, you ought to run two candidates.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …because, as per the RS-mantra, must be on displacing BHO [even if the "midgets" must stand on each other's shoulders].

    1. I have argued that “Neutorum” [see Diary] could displace rich-guy Mitt, with the individual garnering the greater number of delegates being the POTUS nominee and the other being the Veep nominee. This could unify the non-Romney wing of the party, deflecting the types of anticipated personal attacks you have conjured [and others gigantic flaws abound, such as RomneyCare hypocrisy].

    2. I have also learned that people who lose arguments will predictably reformulate to evade attacks on their credibility. Every time Zbigniew appears with his daughter on PMSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” he spins more deceit…that can be traced to 1979′s errors; every time another Peace Plan is generated by Israeli/American Leftists/Progressives, the inability of Arafat to provide a counter-offer @ Camp David II [& reprised @ Taba]…is ignored. Brzezinski can accept an Iranian Nuke, and Israel can continue to be bullied. It’s all in a day’s work.

    The point, here, is that the blame-game doesn’t have “legs.” The same people who failed can retain power…to continue to fail, politically insulated by those who perceive their self-interests to reside in maintaining the status-quo. It is a useless enterprise, just as is the “talk” of pivoting to focus upon the Congress [as per allegedly "conservative" punditry]. RINO’s would shift the discussion from what must be accomplished urgently, to protect ego/power/$/whatever.

    This is a trap, and it must be recognized/ignored…and those who promulgate it must be condemned.

    Whether or not my idea emerges from the rise of The Newt [and the falls of Mitt and Santorum], the bottom-line must remain the urgency of vetting whomever to optimize the ability to muster Fly-Over-America to displace BHO…THIS YEAR!

  • hisgirlfriday

    No way does any GOP nominee fare as badly as Goldwater in ’64. Even if Paul somehow got the nom that wouldn’t happen. The GOP base of support in the south/Great Plains/west is too strong for that.

    If this election is like any ’60s election, I see a Romney nomination leading to something like 1968 was for the Dems with Humphrey when the establishment of the party was in one place and the base/activists of the party were in a totally different place. Now obviously I’m not expecting Tampa to be anything like Chicago ’68 in terms of violence and all of that insanity. But there’s just such a divide from where the base is and where the establishment/professional political class is.

  • goodgovernance

    They kept criticizing McCain even after the convention (which is why the “stop criticizing Mitt now, you’ll damage him for the general” argument by Rombots makes me laugh). They raged against Sarah Palin because she wasn’t Romney, even before she gave her convention speech. And they even bragged about voting for Obama that year, for the transparent objective of giving Romney another chance this year.

    Yes, Romney supporters have shown a willingness to be disloyal to the party. So this news doesn’t surprise me at all.

    I disagree with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright on just about everything. But there is one thing we agree on – chickens do eventually come home to roost. Romneybots, your man just isn’t a winner. At some point, sooner or later, money and organization won’t be able to keep that truth from manifesting itself in decisive fashion. I just hope Romney’s not in a position to do damage to this country when it happens.

  • mikelindell2

    on MSNBC a week or so ago. A lot of the establishment dreams of having a tea party or conservative nominee losing badly so that they could then regain “control” of the party. I’m trying to figure out why the Republican establishment has been acting like a shadow party set up by the left. Newt represents the biggest threat to them, that’s why they have launched a jihad-like attack against him for months now. Let’s see if he can overcome it all, or if Obamacare and the establishment remain the norm.

  • ghostship

    Wouldn’t that actually require that Conservatives have a dog in this fight? The only real difference between Romney and Obama is how hard they are willing to step on the gas as the nation drives over a cliff.

    It doesn’t matter a hill of beans who beats who in November if those are our choices. The only thing worth bothering with in that case is the rest of the ticket. Conservatives might as well just flip a coin to decide who to vote for on the top.

  • major

    You are echoing exactly what I have thought!
    Dam! We need to think outside the box!
    And, on the issue of consistent concessions that we are going to lose….that will cause us to lose!
    I know it started out as an incentive to action, but it is really beginning to sink into brains!
    NO! We will win!!

  • major

    The greatest sacrifice we face, and the most courageous activism, will be to vote for whomever wins the GOP nomination…and I ‘aint no establishment Republican either.
    I am a New Republican! And that is how we have to treat and replace that party!

  • Marcus_Traianus

    A faction of the Republican Party has spent a fair amount of the entire primary season bent on destroying Romney. Why? Not based on the positions he has provided- in writing and available to all on his website. Frankly, I have yet to see a good contrasting of those positions against other Primary candidates and more importantly, the one man wrecking ball that is Obama. The opposition is largely based on what writers and their psychic friends have speculated Romney will do…along with that ethereal, conspiratorial secret sect called the “Establishment”. And these magic thoughts have been articulated and printed, ad nauseum. It has damaged not only the candidates, but our party.

    Now this faction wants to change the subject, focus on other alleged negatives and ignore the results of their handiwork. Read this mornings WSJ poll and how “corrosive” the Primary process has been in a historical sense. It ain’t that way based in some intellectual screening by the voters. It’s based on a bunch of memes and divination that people have hung around the parties’ neck like an albatross.

    Congratulations. You have done something I previously thought was unachievable. You have elevated probably the worst, most destructive, unelectable President in our history into a position of superior voter approval.

    You wonder why people are pissed and behaving irrationally?

  • naraht

    Agreed, for 2012 to be worse than 1964 (with all states moving toward the Democrats equally), the Republican candidate would get only NE-3, WY, OK, UT, ID, AL, AK & LA with KY being the last state to go to Obama. Kentucky went to McCain by 57.4 to 41.1. I just can’t see that happening unless there is a major division in the Republican party. (With a convention that goes on long enough that the Tampa Bay Times forum has to kick out the convention to set up for Hockey)

    And as for a 1968 like convention, I think they only way that happens is if Romney has fewer committed delegates than Santorum but gets the nomination do to the votes of the uncommitted superdelegates.

  • spolson

    All the speculation will do us no good. If we lose to Obama there will be nothing holding him back. He will be free to dismantle out country to such a level that his Arab allies will walk into our government and take over with out a shot. Then slowly turn us into Iran.

    We don’t have the time to play with politics anymore. Two years of a house majority has gained us almost nothing.

  • Dave_A

    Up there with the supposed ‘NAU’, Mexicans ‘conquering’ the SW US, and the theory that BJ Billy would nominate himself president-for-life.

  • goodgovernance

    Fear is the mind killer. There are plenty of real things to be worried about without getting swept up in a false hysteria that plays into the hands of those who would manipulate you and control you in the first place.

  • goodgovernance

    Mitt (and his supporters) are pristine, and completely blameless in all this.

    If he was a strong candidate he would have had this wrapped up after South Carolina. Weakness doesn’t sell.

  • edintexas

    What do the Hispanic students attending Northern Arizona University have to do with conquering the SW states? :-)

  • jon11

    Many have made cillizas point already.

    A lot good candidates fear the far right and have to pander to it so the best thing that could happen to the republican party, so the argument goes, would be to let the tea party nominate another Sharon Angle type for president and after he he/she gets murdered that wing of thr base would be weakened and the less shrill Majority of traditional conservatives (the 300 year old kind not the 2 year old kind) could wrest back control.

    Probably some truth to it but I don’t want to hand Obama another term to find out.

    All ericks fears of what the media will do to Romney are overblown.
    The Mormon thing is easy. You just point to Harry Reid every time they mention it and act outraged and call them all bigots…just what the left does.

    They can take the gingrich/occupy line that Romney looted companies at Bain and he can point to staples and the thousands of middle class jobs he’s created. The public is smart enough to decide for themselves on that one.

    The thing I don’t get about ericks theory is why he thinks there is more dirt on Romney than anyone else…because there isn’t…and what makes him think the left won’t unleash hell on whoever the nominee is.

    There is only one guy not in the race that would be better than mitt and that’s chris Christie. All these other supposed “saviors” would be even worse. Mitts going to do just fine.

  • virginiahiker

    I read Clizilla’s article 3 times. The quote you pull was not attributed to a Romney supporter and unless you believe that everyone who opposes self destructive extremism is a Romney supporter, there is no way to tell who they back. The most prominent source of the “Republicans need to lose in order to win” idea who Clizilla quotes by name is George Will, whose wife worked for Perry and who has been a leading critic of Romney. Yes, there are many people who believe conservative orthedoxy, particularly from the social conservatives, is leading the party over a cliff. No, not all them support Romney, although I will conced most are more ready to accept him.

    Personally, I think the lose in order to win idea is incredibly stupiid. We need tobring the party together, not tear it apart. Tim Carney says it better than I can; “An alliance between libertarians and [social] conservatives is natural and right today. But Santorum [social conservatives] has repeatedly behaved as if he [they] want to drive the libertarians away.”

    http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/article/santorum-liberty-morality-and-culture-wars/409511

    As a fiscal conservative and libertarian, I want to work with, not against, social conservatives. But if the price of cooperation is the loss of my freedom or constant denigration as a RINO, than I can find better things to do with my time, money and political efforts. We are not RINOS simply because we understand that a government large enough to impose our moral principals on our neighbors is also large enough to impose theirs on us.

  • Marcus_Traianus

    Weak? Thanks for proving my point.

    Maybe you can very specifically articulate, based on facts and Romney’s actual positions why you state he is weak. Then tie that to voting patterns, exit polls and real outcomes.

    Not what you personally believe.

    Not by repeating what what others have said.

    Not by diving what Romney will do as POTUS.

    Then tell me how that stacks up vs. Obama. Again, real facts- not a bunch on nonsensical collection of non sequiturs and appeals to emotion that you thought you read in a unicorn scat.

    Then tell me how we will be worse off under someone like Romney.

  • vangoghssister

    The burden of proof that Romney can beat Obama in the general election is on his supporters. Surely you have noticed many of us here at RS have asked time and again for one of his supporters to specifically delineate how they think he will defend himself against the Obama machine. I won’t go into the list of Romney negatives, we all know what they are. I would like to respectfully ask if you would be willing take on the task since no one else here has put forth the effort. A point-by-point rationale would be much appreciated.

    EE, you are correct about the Mormon church being the first topic to be brought up. Just last night, there was a story on my local ABC affiliate regarding the practice of baptizing the dead. So, it has begun.

  • acat

    First, the media will, naturally, cover the anti-Mormon bias. There was an entire “Mormons are weird” miniseries in 2008 – when Romney looked to win the nomination over Dem pick McCain – not to mention “Big Love”. On the other paw, who’s going to move the media to cover Harry Reid’s religion? They haven’t done so yet …

    Second, Kjellander. Good starting point for why people think Romney’s got problems. Copy that word, paste it into the search box in the top right corner, and see if you can get educated.

    Mew

  • goodgovernance

    Pie charts or bar graph? What sort of statistical analysis would you like?

    Is this how you see us winning over voters in the general campaign? Cold, hard data points that everyone will absorb, process, and then spit out the desired response to?

    Romney is weak because he changes his positions more frequently and more rapidly than any national politician I have ever seen. One day is he is promoting a national mandate for health care. Later on he changes his mind and states that is unconstitutional, when he realizes his earlier position would kill his campaign. The worst part is he denied ever having been for a national mandate.

    This pattern of flip-flopping happens again and again, on any number of issues. Is he for pork barrel politics, or against it? Is he a champion of pro-abortion forces, or pro-life? Is he a severe conservative, or a progressive?

    It ultimately doesn’t matter what Romney states his positions are now because all too often there is no correlation between what his current position is with the position he takes up in a year’s time, or six month’s time, or sometimes even three hours time, except that the later position will often be 180 degrees in opposition to the earlier one.

    Now I’m going to venture back into the world of subjective analysis. You might be surprised to learn there are elements of reality that you can’t hold in your hand or put into a spreadsheet, but it’s the truth, whether you choose to accept it or not.

    Nothing has happened to Romney that isn’t a normal aspect of the rough and tumble nature of campaigns. In fact, Romney himself predicted it would take until April before he had the nomination locked up. If you believe him, everything’s going according to his own schedule.

    The fact Romney is viewed less favorably in the polls than Obama himself is ultimately Romney’s fault, for not being able to effectively counter whatever others are saying about him. He is a politician, and wants to be a leader. His entire job is dependent on his ability to persuade people to join his cause. He is doing an awful job of it, as measured by the metric no Republican nominee in the past two decades has had to fight this long to secure the nomination.

    Your own subjective opinion that it’s everyone else’s fault that Romney is viewed less favorably than Obama is built on none of the factual evidence you demand from others, and also speaks to a sense of entitlement: No one should say anything bad about Romney.

    Sorry. Your man is weak, whether that shows up in Excel or not. He’s timid. Overly cautious. He’s got no vision, beyond that patriotic songs are really fun and cool. He’s a manager, not a leader. And I don’t want him as the standard bearer of the Republican Party.

    The people of America, the women, the independents, the Hispanics, the swing voters, won’t want him as their president. You can argue that is a subjective conclusion, and not fact. Don’t worry – it will be fact in eight months time.

  • Ender

    I sure hope you will be able to rally behind our nominee as soon as it is obvious who it is. The nonsense about Obama being unbeatable is pure primary-time spin designed to try to get people to vote for Newtorums or whatever. Obama is weak and entirely beatable.

  • acat

    Or more like Carter was entirely beatable, but Reagan was too extreme?

    Mew

  • Repair_Man_Jack

    I guess the thistles are just never crunchy enough for some miserable, little donkies. Take the GOP will !LOSE! meme and sodomize yourself with it.

  • goodgovernance

    If by any chance you were one of the Romney supporters who kept publicly bashing McCain after the convention, or if – even worse – you voted for Obama in 2008 to give Mitt another chance this go around, you have no right to demand we rally behind anybody.

    By the way, I see you’ve named yourself after Ender Wiggin the sci-fi character created by orson Scott Card. Ender himself of course was a brilliant child with deeply ingrained sadistic tendencies, as exhibited by his brother’s skinning an animal while it was still alive, and Ender’s own actions in killing a fellow student.

    Does your taking the character’s name mean you see yourself as a similar kind of brilliant and ruthless advocate for Romney?

  • northeastred

    He’s weak. He’s a milquetoast loser of elections. A palatable good fellow who goes along to get along. But he’s absolutely embarrassed by the conservative positions he has to spout in order to make it through the primaries. That’s why you hear him make so many blunders, where, in interviews, he’ll ridicule positions that seem preposterous to him, only to be reminded later that he has to take that position. Whoops. Misunderstood the question!

    He’s embarrassed by those positions because he spends his time, not around NASCAR types, but around educated Republicans who also don’t believe in any of the abortion/gay rights/women social issues. But they put up with it to appease the base they despise.

    Romney might make for a closer general election than Santorum or Gingrich, but he’s an uninspired leader, and the public is on to him. What you fail to understand is that most real Republicans see this coming and we don’t want to put the Romney foot forward because we know he will abandon his conservative positions for the general election. He’s gaming the GOP.

  • Ender

    And I disagree with your characterization of Ender, especially weirdly ascribing his brother’s skinning an animal as contributing to Ender’s sadistic tendencies, when by then they were far apart and completely different people.

    I was for Romney back in 2008, but I don’t remember publicly bashing McCain after the convention and I dutifully voted against Obama, as I’ve always voted against Democrats and for the GOP nominee.

    I am not a ruthless guy but a regular not very confrontational conservative voter. I want what most conservatives want – defeating Obama, and I would support whoever is the nominee, including Santorum or Gingrich.

  • Ender

    turn out that way, but what is evident is that Obama is a weak candidate mostly hovering below 50% approval, in a weak economy.

    To prematurely admit defeat is non-conducive to having a chance in this election. I am quite optimistic myself.

  • nybill

    GG, at least in my case, this is not at all true. I was a Rudy guy, and when he flopped I went straight to McCain. I was initially excited about Palin on the ticket until she proved herself (literally) to be not ready for prime time. This go round I started with Cain. We all know how well that worked! Now it’s time to get serious, focus, and win this thing. IMHO, Mitt is the only one capable of getting a broad base of support to beat BHO.

  • Marcus_Traianus

    But I actually have read the various positions and plans he put forth. Obviously those types of details escape many people. To wit, nobody has named one yet and in tandem intellectually voiced their issue with the policy as compared to Mr. Obama. Then articulated how it spells certain defeat for Republicans.

    But there are certainly plenty of “you” and “we” statements magically ascribing values or thoughts to others based on a personal perception. Which, by the way. appears to be a byproduct of the most vocal Romney detractors.

    Oh and several people for whom I have great respect know Romney personally and vouch that he is a rock solid, intelligent, caring and likeable guy. But don’t let any of that get in the way of building your emotional appeals or contra-intellectual Tom Foolery.

    I’ve been here a long time. But I dare say, this level of Pavlovian-uniterrupted-by-intelligent-thought-group-think is relatively new to me.

  • acat

    but it’s not okay to look at historical parallels and point out where we’ve gone wrong?

    Deming would like a word…

    Mew

  • Ender

    with the parallels that I do not see as accurate. McCain was much more disliked for stabbing the party in the back in the senate, while Dole was truly an uninspired candidate who was nominated as someone who was due for a nomination. In Dole’s case he was running against an incumbent who had great economy behind him. In McCain’s case he was running during a huge downturn in the economy, that started during the GOP president’s time. Those are huge negatives against the GOP campaigns.

    Dole and McCain trailed the incumbents most of the time. Mitt, as the presumptive nominee, has been up and down against Obama, and economy is not a positive or a negative this time, but could go against Obama. I do not see the parallels you are talking about yet.

    Also where did I say that it’s not ok to look at those parallels? But I argue that we should look at the entire picture, and polling suggesting Romney as in best shape against Obama, is a legitimate part of that picture.

  • tngal

    From the article:

    ” The GOP?s problem, according to party insiders, is most evident when it comes to the issue of immigration. All of the major Republican presidential candidates ? with the exception of former House speaker Newt Gingrich ? have largely rejected the idea of a path to citizenship for the 11 million people in the United States illegally.

    That view has contributed to a broader sense among Hispanic voters that the Republican Party is not a friendly place for them.”

    In this he says we not embracing amnesty and so we’re losing a large chunk of voting population. He also points out Newt is the only one who has not rejected amnesty. If Cillizza argument were true there’d be this huge, massive amount of latinos supporting Gingrich, right? Where are they? Since we’re not seeing this en masse movement from Latinos to get behind Newt I don’t think immigration is the ‘most evident’ issue as the author purports.

    (Although I do believe its keeping some conservatives from voting for him)

  • acat

    what you meant by this:

    it’s too early to speculate whether it would
    turn out that way, but what is evident is that Obama is a weak candidate mostly hovering below 50% approval, in a weak economy.</blockquote

    I'll just note here that you ignored my other example – Carter.

    The trouble I have with your declaration is that Romney is much closer to a Dole – he's *boring* on the stump, he doesn't inspire or "do the vision thing", he's not a leader – than he is to a Reagan…

    Mew

  • acat

    what you meant by this:

    it?s too early to speculate whether it would
    turn out that way, but what is evident is that Obama is a weak candidate mostly hovering below 50% approval, in a weak economy.

    I’ll just note here that you ignored my other example ? Carter.

    The trouble I have with your declaration is that Romney is much closer to a Dole ? he’s *boring* on the stump, he doesn’t inspire or “do the vision thing”, he’s not a leader ? than he is to a Reagan?

    Mew

  • elayman

    Really ? An utterly unlikeable, weird flip flopper with no core principles except being a great vulture capitalist without a solid, steady, dedicated electoral base ? I guarantee if Mitt enters the White House while being seen as a ?mushy, moderate, yet electable? candidate from the point of view of the party?s core supporters will mean being all but deserted by his own rank-and-file the minute things get hard.

  • Ender

    race as it was before my time, but Dole/Clinton was when I was already into politics.

    We disagree on the characterization of Romney, that’s all. I don’t think Romney is boring.He is no Reagan, but he has a strongly conservative economic vision of smaller government and lower taxes. And unlike boring Dole, Romney has executive and business experience and is energetic and ruthless in his campaigning. We need that against Obama.

  • Ender

    I am not imagining Romney to be a great president, that is hard to predict with any candidate and would be decided by his actions. But there is no reason for Romney not to govern as a conservative if he wants to be reelected with support of the conservative base. It just makes no sense.

  • Ender

    nt

  • shadowmane

    I’m not loyal to the Republican Party, I’m loyal to conservatism. If the Republican Party nominates Mitt Romney, that’s where I get off the bus. I’ll vote for the Conservatives on the down ballot, but I’ll leave the Presidential box blank.

  • acat

    He has a Centrist one.

    He doesn’t have a problem with the principles of Obamacare, just the implementation.

    He thinks the “safety net is working fine”.

    He doesn’t appear to see the gigantic flaw with the too-big-to-fail mentality.

    The guy isn’t a fiscal conservative, he’s a centrist. He wants to give the government a tune-up, not trade it in.

    And he is boring! Perhaps you’re too young to remember Reagan, and perhaps you’re too centrist to have liked Palin or Perry, but .. the successful candidate needs *some* charisma.

    During the debates, Romney kept going into the weeds instead of hitting the high notes, he gave off this weird “Why am I explaining, you should already know this!” vibe…. came across as a manager, not a leader… and I haven’t seen anything different in any of the (very few) interviews since.

    Mew

  • JSobieski

    Every Republican “supports” smaller government and lower taxes.

    Romney’s original economic proposals were basically SQ and “tepid”.

    Romney deserves a certain amount of benefit from the projection of Republican ideas onto any Republican candidate—but he adds little if anything to that base line.

    I love hearing how he will cut so much spending and trimming government while offering no specifics. It inspires confidence . . . that nothing will happen.

  • shadowmane

    Conservatives should simply leave the Republican Party. If they don’t want us, we might as well leave. They can take the moderates and re-form the party in their own image. The Democrats might benefit for one election cycle, until the moderate Republican Party dies. Then the Conservative Party that comes out of it will be able to take the Democrats to task.

  • marge3

    Erick is one Republican who has been repeatedly fighting for Conservatism to lose and Obama to win. For months he was in the tank for Gingrich and now has been fostering a wish for a brokered convention. He has been so full of hate for Romney that even CNN has announced his overt anti-Romney bias (Hard to believe they would still consider him as an objective “analyst”). His hatred has spewed onto the airwaves and his writings on a nearly daily basis that it is HE that is discouraging voters from becoming enthusiastic for a candidate that is truely ELECTABLE against Obama. There is no last minute “news alert” about Romney’s individual mandate. Romney will repeal Obamacare…that should appeal to all conservatives. Instead, Erick Erickson continues to dig and dig to find anything negative he can find against Romeny so Obama can be elected. I see no value in what he has been doing for months other than rooting for Conservatism to lose.

  • shadowmane

    The Republican Party is not Jesus. We don’t have to follow their directives. You may be a New Republican, but I’m an Old Conservative. I simply don’t have time for the games of “New Republicans”. Those games lose us elections… as its likely to this year.

  • Aaron Gardner

    nt

  • rememberthealamo

    I see little difference in voting for Obama or Romney. They will make the same type of decisions and appoint the same type of liberal judges. So I will not vote for either. I will at least have the joy of knowing Romney will never get to buy the office he so desires, nor will he ever get the nomination again.

    Conservatives are tired of hearing the RINO Rstablishment line of “vote for our guy or we all lose”. They never seem to have the same outlook when a conservative candidate gets the nomination – president, senate, whatever.

    So let them try and carry Mittens over the line without the conservative base. They’ll have the same success as with Dole, McCain. I’ll vote for conservatives only. No more accepting the Establishment Republican sloppy seconds they hand down to us, patting us on the head and telling us we’re lucky to have them.

    “What? You lost with Mittens? You naughty kittens! Now you shall have no White House pie”. ;)

  • marge3

    Don’t continue like the main stream media to think that Hispanics are a monolithic block of voters. Overwhelmingly, the Hispanics in Florida (largely Cuban and Puerto Ricans) supported Mitt Romney who has a strong enforcement position against illegal immigration. Newt, on the other hand, has the weakest, most liberal position as he told Univision that he would give “work visas” to all of the illegal aliens who were outside of his amnesty plan for all illegal alien “grandmothers”. Good grief, Not all Hispanics support lawbreaking and we need to apply our laws to all groups equally. Newt is a total panderer and has been silent on this issue in Georgia where illegal immigration is a major issue. Erick Erickson should raise this point on his RedState site and on the airwaves instead of focusing on his obvious hate of Romney. Newt is NO conservative on this issue.

  • kaheo

    1. He told them they should learn English and not the language of the living in a ghetto.
    2. Not many Latinos are participating in the GOP primaries – most of them probably don’t agree with the GOP platform not necessarily just immigration.

    You’re right though that conservatives are probably not happy with Newt for being slightly open to amnesty!

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    She’ll spend it on crack.

  • kaheo

    That Romney will reverse his “tough” stance on immigration once he gets the nomination. I wonder if you’ll still defend him as being tough when he flip-flops this fall on this big issue!

  • Cowboy

    .

  • jon11

    …obviously, because all the evidence points to him having the best chance against obama.

    By evidence i mean the fact that he continues (despite how weak he supposedly is) to defeat all other republican comers. And remember, for those who will say thats only because of money, that Perry had plenty of money and he fared the same as the rest.

    AND

    because all the polling shows Romney better ahead of the other candidates in head to head match ups with Obama

    That, my friends, is all the evidence available to any of us.

    Everything else is pure speculatioin.

    Now, could speculation turn out to be true? Sure it could. A blind hog finds an acorn every now again. But speculation is nothing to stake a presidential bid on.

    My claims about romney have never been that he WILL beat obama. Only 4 incumbent presidents have been defeated in the past 100 years. My Claim has been, and remains, that he is republican candidate in the race with the best shot at it.

    thats based on polls. Thats based on vicotries over rivals. Thats based on organization and preparedness.

    Its not based on hunches or guesses or gut feelings.

    the not bots are the ones basing their claims on that.

  • Cowboy

    Three

  • streiff

    really.

    Are you one of the Larsen brothers in drag? The style looks familiar

  • JSobieski

    Using your logic, we should have supported Bush over Reagan in 1980.

    Romney is barely squeeking by even though he has tremendous monetary and organizational advantages.

    It doesn’t take an Einstein to reason that without those advantages (neither of which will exist in a general election), Romney will make a poor showing.

  • JSobieski

    nt

  • elayman

    t’s hardly unusual for candidates to avoid committing to difficult right wing proposals (entitlement reform, austerity, etc.) but it won’t help Mitt contrast his leadership with Obama. And even if he does intend to govern as a conservative, not being able to rally the middle of the spectrum who don’t like Romney in equal measure isn’t going to be helpful.

  • rememberthealamo

    Conservatives lose with either Obama or Romney as POTUS. Why help hang ourselves by voting for Romney? The Establishment RINOs want to ” take the party back”. Fine, take it back -back to those winning days of Dole and McCain.

    At least the Golwater loss eventually gave us Reagan. The Dole loss gave us ……McCain and Romney !?! No thanks.

  • JSobieski

    So lets see:
    (1) Tea party movement was the big player in 2010
    (2) R primaries involve center right voters
    (3) Romney still didn’t seek conservative support until after it became clear he wouldn’t be able to win the PRIMARIES without them.

    Plenty of circumstantial evidence to conclude that Romney will be a disappointment as President.

    In any case, I am skeptical that he could win anyway,

  • Seedyrom

    that’s the bottom line. The stupid party doesn’t know who to go out and find candidates, they sit back and conspire behind closed doors and side against the people choosing whom they want. Micheal Steele gave the party a longer process to weed out the worst and give voters a fairer electoral process but we still have the DC shills and the sellouts who are lying for the worst candidate ever. Romney’s a joke, disaster after disaster just like John Kerry only the alleged conservative doesn’t care what people think of him because he’s out of touch and rather apathetic towards the public.

    Worst thing about it, the left refuse to vet Romney just like Fox news and the conservative media. Sites like this have done the legg work while the right wing shills conspire against us. Sad case for America.

  • Cowboy

    NOT baptizing the dead. It is a proxy bapisim that the baptized can accept or reject and it in no way claims they are members of the LDS.

  • rememberthealamo

    Having convictions and core beliefs, and valuing them over a political party, really is foolish. To establishment types, any way.

  • Melody Warbington (rwm52)

    however, it’s better to dig and expose now rather than wait for Obama’s opposition team to leak things out to benefit the libs. Or did you think Romney would get the nod and go untouched by Obama?

    As for “discouraging voters from become enthusiastic for a candidate that is truly electable against Obama,” Romney needed no help from EE or anyone else on that score. That’s one accomplishment he can claim all on his own.

  • lineholder

    along with a few other things, like the way he continues to defend Romneycare.

    There are two factors that I’m not sure the candidates are taking into context in how and what they communicate with us. (1) During the past three years, Conservatives have taken it upon themselves to learn and to become informed on topics (2) During the past three years, Conservatives have become far more proactive than were prior to 2008.

    Someone who is a leader would be more inclined to look at those circumstances and be consciously aware of an opportunity to harness those changes in a positive way. If that meant communicating some details to people re: what they had in mind…if it would allow them to have a greater chance in achieving their objectives, then that is what they would do.

    But a manager is often inclined to take the attitude that they should be vague, offer blanket statements with no details, that they should dictate what to do, how to do it and when to do it, and people are supposed to just blindly trust them and follow their lead.

    I don’t know how much these types of factors are playing into the situation, but I think Romney has been coming across as a manager rather than a leader. It’s a real shame in a lot of ways, because there’s a lot of energy on the Conservative end of spectrum that could be harnessed for good in this case.

  • Kyle-MI

    I certainly don’t remember Romney supporters coming out against McCain (or Palin) . Do you have any references to back up your claims? I remember some GOP people who attacked Palin but they were never associated with Romney.

    All I know is I voted for Romney in the primary last time and for McCain in the general. And I was one of the people on RS urging folks to suck it up and vote for McCain despite having misgivings about him.

  • redmymind

    That the conservative base should wear itself out and now cave in and accept the “inevitable” is precisely what the establishment has been counting on.

    Interesting how those jerks, CanTOR and CoBURN, would make their establishment endorsements right before Super Tueday. I’d be interested to see how many of the sheepish, ill-informed masses would go right ahead and follow “whatever sounds or looks good.”

    Folks, the problem is not really the duplicity of Romney and his attempting to “buy” the nomination. It’s not even the “divided” conservative candidates. IT’S A DUMBED-DOWN AMERICAN PUBLIC THAT’S LOST TOUCH WITH ITS FOUNDING PRINCIPLES AND GOES FOR ANYTHING THAT GLITTERS OR “EXCITES” AT THE MOMENT. This didn’t just happen overnight. It’s what’s been drummed into them day and night through the societal institutions well imbued with liberal spirit.

    EE, your assessment as far as Romney’s standing very little chance against BHO but that the other candidates standing even LESS of a chance may pass off as being merely “descriptive” of what might be the case, but such assessments hardly exist in a vacuum and therefore end up being “prescriptive,” triggering a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy as far as how things will turn out.

    I can opine with little or no consequence as much as any one of the bloggers here, but your opinion–by virtue of your position here at RS–potentially carries a far greater prescriptive effect. The portrayal of a pessimistic picture as far as the prospects of the two conservative candidates currently in the race, however “accurate” in your mind, only has the effect of bolstering Romney’s aura of “inevitability.” It helps Romney, regardless of how you think he will ultimately fare against BHO (the part of your assessment I agree with, by the way).

  • lineholder

    being genuinely honest with Conservatives about a centrist agenda wouldn’t help him that much. We might respect him more for the honesty, but that’s about it.

  • Ender

    How did Romney distance himself from the tea party movement? When did he not seek conservative support?

  • Melody Warbington (rwm52)

    and since many of those newly involved conservatives read and/or blog here at redstate, I give Newt and Santorum both points (and Perry before them) for posting diaries here and taking whatever heat and questions were thrown at them.

    Let’s consider why Romney hasn’t reached out on “the most widely read right of center blog on Capitol Hill, is the most often cited right of center blog in the media, and is widely considered one of the most influential voices of the grassroots on the right?” (I’ll cut Ron Paul a break on this one because he might be banned depending on what he submitted.)

    Perhaps it’s because there are a lot of vocal Not Romney supporters here. Shouldn’t he be trying to woo us? Convince us he means what he says, i.e., he’s a conservative? One of us? We’re the people who always vote because we consider it a privilege and a duty to country. Does he not want us?

    There are also a handful of Romney supporters here. Why is he leaving them to fend for themselves and try to make his case for him?

    Could it be he doesn’t feel comfortable among conservatives (many of whom have been all their lives) who can actually make a case for conservatism? Who can articulate what it means and why? There have been plenty of comments claiming that Santorum and Gingrich aren’t conservative, either, yet they entered this arena. If Romney can’t take the heat or make his case here, how is he going to hold up against Obama and his opp team?

    Can any Romney supporters answer why he hasn’t posted a diary here? Preferably a reasoned answer other than because we’re just a bunch of Romney haters or bigots.

  • nord357

    Thats why I support the Constitution party.
    I never have to hold my nose to vote.
    If you vote for a man knowing he does not support your values you have sold yourself down the river.

  • lineholder

    After what’s happened with Obama, and some things we’ve seen unfold in Congress (even with Repubs), it’s very difficult to do the blind trust thingy right now. It truly is.

    I made an appeal for more info on a different subject of the weekend. No response. Not a one.

    But I wish you better success with your appeal than I had. Maybe there’s a Romney supporter in the bunch who is willing to step up to the challenge.

  • Ender

    who was able to fundamentally change our government? I do not think any one of our current or past or magical candidates would be able to do it. You need support of congress to do anything major, and even if Romney does have both House and Senate, it still would be a long shot to do anything beyond tinkering due to the large amount of cowardly and pathetic representatives on our side.

    It takes more than a president to do it. Yes, it takes a president to lead, and I think that Romney, as someone with executive experience is best capable in making tough decisions and sticking to them..

    I am not centrist in my views but I stopped liking Palin fairly quickly. I also did switch my support to Perry initially as I was excited about his record, but when I realized he was not going anywhere decided to move back to my man Romney.

    Nothing wrong with being a manager. Plenty of “managers” are in leadership roles, much more so than community organizers for example. As a manager myself, I make independent decisions affecting others almost daily.

  • annplato

    to make your point whom you support? I never call Romney Willard, but I can point by point prove that he has the potential to lose to the Obama machine allied with the dishonest MSM. Gingrich may not be affable nor popular, but that is something that speaks poorly about the majority of conservatives not being educated enough to either like or understand the rather professorial presentations made by Gingrich.

    Gingrich is the only one who has a plan for succesful econimic recovery, regardless that he did mention a ?moon colony” with larger private enterprise money contribution! He also is the only ONE who fought successfully against the Clinton machine and establishment Republicans. The slogan this time around as in 2008 is about “change”, except this time around we have someone who has a background of success in changing Washington. Everyone who followed the assassination of Gingrich when he was Speaker knows that was just payback from Democrats allied with professional Republican politicians for attempting to clean house in a BIG way!

    If we want the status quo to continue we elect a Romney or Santorum. If we want REAL change we elect a Gingrich or Paul. With Paul we may win the national debt issue, but lose on foreign policy issues. With Gingrich we have the best chance of winning both the national debt AND foreign policy concerns.

  • acat

    You’re in good company, Leon H. Wolf also calls for a presidential nominee with executive experience.

    That said, we can’t just wave a wand and install Romney in the White House – he has to win it.

    The trouble is, he’s only been able to win by narrow margins, and by outspending his opponents 5-1 or more.

    Do you think he’ll suddenly get a charisma transplant for the general election? Do you suppose he’ll be able to outspend the Dems – ignoring the free MSM-in-the-tank bonus for Obama – 5-1?

    This is the problem with supporting Romney – we get both a lousy candidate and a lousy president.

    Mew

  • annplato

    ever a candidate for nomination to have spent so much money to assassinate a member of his own party as Romney did against Gingrich. Why? Because he KNOWS that Gingrich is better than him! If he would have just tried to run on his own ideas (if he has any) or his political accomplishments, as Newt did prior Iowa, this divide would no longer be, but one solid, enthusiastic Republican voter bloc behind Newt Gingrich. That way by now, we would be battling Obama, rather than each other!

  • Ender

    I used a combo name for Newt and Santorum that was coined by a pro-Newt supporter here on RS.

  • Ender

    let’s just say unfriendly to the idea of Mitt Romney being our nominee. I have to be careful speaking up for him, as my support for him is almost treated as trollish. That’s despite the fact that I’ve been conservative since my long gone teenage years, and have been proudly capitalist and hard right on most issues.

    Also given some hostile RS member responses to other, not as hated, public figures posting on RedState (Santorum recently comes to mind), I can imagine that no one in Romney’s campaign would want him to be exposed to even harsher response than that.

    It’s not that he can’t take the heat, he’s been taking worse heat this entire campaign, but it’s more of what’s the point of taking this particular heat? RS is a tiny sub-segment of the conservative movement whose leader has been bashing Mitt non-stop. We, Romney supporters, are gluttons for punishment, posting here only for our conservative credentials to be questioned. I don’t mind because I love arguing back and forth, but Presidential candidates can pick and choose their battles. I think RS is a battle Romney can safely skip.

  • papabear

    Seriously? MTittens has ethics problems in his closet too???

    I thought I knew all the major issues. Now you had to go an reveal this!

    At least I have a consolation prize – I will have a lot more personal time this year. The only political activism I will engage in will be for my senator/congressman. With FNews’ turn to MTittens, I rarely even watch the evening news on TV. The spin on the internet is much more tolerable.

    I guess I should thank you for the heads up …

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    GC gets tired of MSM pretense with no historical evidence…in freaking March!

  • acat

    Its not based on hunches or guesses or gut feelings. the not bots are the ones basing their claims on that.

    You’re right in part – but wrong in part as well.

    It’s a fact that Romney’s outspending his opponents 5-1 or more.
    It’s a fact that Romney is losing the majority of the GOP vote.
    It’s a fact that Romney’s record in Massachusetts isn’t conservative.
    It’s a fact that Romney’s opposition to Obamacare is recent, and that he’s never backed away from Romneycare.

    It’s only my gut opinion that Romney is an uninspiring speaker, a moderate, and will follow his own counsel rather than strive for conservative ideals.

    Will Romney be able to have the same fact of cash advantage on his side in November?

    Mew

  • drifter

    a conservative party. Over the years, as the the Democats moved to the Fabian left socialist viewpoints that they hold today, The GOPers sensed a vacuum in the ‘Big Tent’ middle and went after it. Sort of lost in the process was the fact that to do this, they moved to the left.

    In many ways, they are what the Democrat party used to be but the fact remains that they are no longer the natural home of conservatism…

  • joeydavis

    We’re not going to support Romney PERIOD.

    The first fault is anyone left enough to be elected in Massachusetts is FAR FAR FAR TOO LEFT to ever be even considered a Republican.

    This second fault is this idiot is so politically motivated that he actually tried outflank Ted Kennedy ON HIS LEFT.

    The third fault is his previous stated positions on Abortion, Gun Control, Minimum Wage, Gay Rights etc. are far outside the Republican mainstream. He is whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear.

    The fourth fault is his main accomplishment in politics is THE SAME AS Barack Obama’s main accomplishment in politcs, government mandated health care.

    So me and the base, we’ve been stockpiling resources for a while. We’ll make it 4 more years. Moses and the nation of Israel spent 40 years in the wilderness, we can handle 4 more with Obama.

  • acat

    Shall I summon the ghosts of the Larsen Brothers for you?

    Mew

  • Ender

    in congress and how many support Santorum or Newt? Or our elected representatives do not count? Which conservatives are you talking about?

  • joeydavis

    Santorum polls as well nationally as Romney does.

    In addition, when you go state by state (like Presidential elections are) Santorum polls BETTER than Romney.

  • joeydavis

    elected officials in washington have been bought and paid for by the Romney campaign in the last 3 elections cycles?

  • acat

    Why aren’t they backing Romney?

    Could it have anything to do with Romney himself?

    Mew

  • Ender

    % of the people who support Tea Party in recent contests. I am not denying that Romney struggled with the “most conservative” segment, frequently more associated with Tea Party, which is obviously due to all the various problems Romney had – flip flopping, governing in MA, strafing gingrich, assault from the anti-Romney talk radio, etc.

    All the things I listed above is why the “most conservative” voters have not been supporting Romney as much as others.

  • drifter

    are the left. There is nothing shadowy about them. They are not that subtle.

  • gallifet

    “The Mormon Church will be the first major attack.”

    I just stumbled across this bit of Mormon theology at lds.org. Evidently, an early head of the Mormon church performed proxy baptisms on the Founding Fathers of the United States of America. His name was Wilford Woodruff, he claimed that the dead ‘fathers’ gathered around him and asked to be baptized as Mormons. This would make a very interesting line of questioning for Mr Romney. Here is the link, scroll down to “God raised up wise men”.

    http://www.lds.org/ensign/1987/09/the-constitution-a-glorious-standard?lang=eng

    You could google lds.org and “the constitution a glorious standard” as well. This is the gold standard for LDS theology. This will be too easy for the Democrats.

  • myron_j_poltroonian

    Rush was right: “Undeniable Truth of Life (insert # here)”, to wit, I believe: “Feminism was instituted to give unattractive women equal access to the mainstream of society”. This is the first time I’ve actually seen this 30 year old female “Student”. Unless I miss my guess, she’s the one paying for sex. (And, before you berate me for my whatever-it-is-you-think-I’ve-said, let me remind you of such comparative phrases as, “Caribou Barbie” and all the rest of the ugly, slanderous slurs of a conservative woman made by all of you “Tolerant-Progressive-Practitioners-of-the-Religion-of-Gaea” in the past few years.

  • myron_j_poltroonian

    but does anyone remember McCain – Palin in 2008? Or perhaps I misunderstand yer meaning. (RINO’s take note: If you promote a “Win at any cost, even if you have to be just like the other guy – you’ve turned into “The ‘Other Guy’ Light”. And, even if elected, most likely you’ll still lose out to the real “Other Guy” where it counts – in votes taken while in office. By the way, “RINO’s” lack what I call the “H” factor, they have very thin skins, unlike Rhino’s, who can take an extraordinary amount of punishment and still keep charging ahead in unwavering pursuit of their principles.)

  • acat

    I still don’t see either a winning strategery nor a particularly conservative president coming out of this.

    Mew

  • arizonajohnson

    would it be appropriate for the media and the opposition candidate to question the Jewish candidate regarding Jewish religious attire, Jewish religious customs, Jewish religous rites? Would a candidate of the Jewish faith have to explain the logical reasons for male circumcision and other customs? Hell no!

    The appropriate response to religious questions of any kind–whether Christian, Jewish, Mormon, Quaker and so forth–should be the same type of response as given by the Jewish community or the anti defimation league. There should be a public outcry against it.

    Or maybe I’m wrong and Mormons shouldn’t enter public life.

  • Melody Warbington (rwm52)

    Hostile territory. Why bother? So just skip it. I already put these excuses out and more. You offered no valid reason, so I’m left to assume that our votes just aren’t worth the trouble to Romney. Tell me again why I should hand over my vote to him when he’s not willing to walk through fire to earn it.

    Newt and Santorum are both coming to Alabama or have already been here. Free events. Do you know what Romney did? Sent the missus to attend a fundraiser that costs $500 to $2,500 per person (See here.) That’s the way to reach the average voter in a state with areas devastated by tornadoes last year.

    And you made my point exactly about being exposed to harsh treatment. Romney had better get used to it now because Obama’s not going to handle him with kid gloves, but again, he just can’t be bothered with those who won’t fall in line.

  • http://www.timothy-bladel.com/ center77

    Its been one positive segment on Romney, with someone talking up his positives aspects and down playing his flip flops and stuff. The establishment still has control over the party because they walk in step and only back one candidate when it matters. Conservatives always split their support to a few strong conservatives. Reagan was able to unite conservatives under one candidate. Until conservative can do this again, we will run elitist blue bloods. I hope Perry or Jindal can pull it off in 2016, while facing a party split between Christie and Jeb. Santorum will run again I’m sure.

  • rightland1111

    I am Conservative also and I don’t like Romney. However, you need to find the piece…on this site and read it. You will go to the polls or you will be one of those that put the Communist back in to take what is left of America down. Please vote R.

  • independentconservative

    “I see little difference in voting for Obama or Romney”

    one is a Socialist vs.one who is a Capitalist

    one promotes green energy all the time, the other does not
    abortion, gay marriage, healthcare are all matters of perspective. I believe Romney when he says he’s conservative on all these. He said over and over he supports one man and one woman marriage and will nominate conservative judges to the Courts. That’s more than Obama would do and has ever done.

    One believes in empathy while the other believes in putting in a hard days’ work. One believes in a welfare society while the other believes in sink or swim capitalism. One believes in American exceptionalism and doesn’t apologize to rivals overseas and the other does the opposite. One believes in a dependent society while the other does not.

    Shall I go on?

    One believes in a balanced budget and proved it in MA while the other doesn’t even submit a budget nor force the Senate to do so. One rams through healthcare legislation in the dead of night by any means necessary and the other at least does it out in the open in a bi partisan fashion.

    One wants to increase our National Debt to greece like levels and collapse the economy from the inside out in order to re-brand America and the other does not.

    One is appreciative of the military and won’t support cutting funding or troop levels and the other wants us to be just another weak European country.

    One is an ally to Israel and the other is not.

    Really, you can’t see a difference? And this is just off the top of my head. Get a clue, man!

  • independentconservative

    see my above post of the differences between Romney and Obama.

  • independentconservative

    Colburn and Cantor good enough for you? They are known as some of the most partisan conservatives. Add this to Red State favorite, Gov. Nikki Haley, Sen. John Thune, UT Rep. Jason Chaeffetz, CA rep, Darrell Issa , NC Rep. Patrick McHenry, MN Rep. Erik Paulsen,

    Also, Romney brings one thing that Santorum or Gingrich cannot and that is the establishment base in Washington. So many of you hate them, yet you can’t win an election without them. Do you see them rallying behind Santorum if he’s so great? Romney has the endorsements of 10 Governors to Gingrich’s 2. Santorum doesn’t have any. Romney has 83 congresional endorsements, the next closet is Gingrich with 11 and Santorum with 4. All these numbers were on Fox News yesterday with Carl Cameron. #s don’t lie and I specifically picked out the undeniable conservatives and not the RINOs since that would go nowhere with this crowd on RS

    http://innovation.cq.com/pub/table/index.php?id=69

    Argue that, ideolagues.

  • independentconservative

    nt

  • independentconservative

    so what does that tell you?

    Romney has 7 wins: WY, ME, FL, NV, WA, MI, and AZ a nice cross section of the country

    Santorum has MO, MN, and IA

    Gingrich (aka the Keebler elf) has SC

    Paul is a joke

    Tell me again, how is YOUR candidate doing again? Also, if your answer is “I dont have one because these candidates are all bad” then get over it. This is what we have. Sure it could be better. I wish there was a Christie, Daniels, McDonnell, but guess what there isn’t so we have to make best with what we have and try and win in November.

  • Cowboy

    against the Marxist?That is is foolish. I don’t much care how you slice it or dice it.

  • redinsf

    You cant call yourself a real republican if you supported DEMOCRAT LITE JOHN MCCAIN. this is why NOBAMA will win in 2012, because we still have people that will settle win RINOS.

  • texastory63

    This fight has been going on since at least 1960. The country club GOP doesn’t like the great unwashed. People like Rick Perry, Ronald Reagan, Sarah Palin and Rick Santorum don’t have the right pedigree you know.
    They might drag mud onto the carpet.

    If I were voting tomorrow, I would vote for the proles.

  • conservative_dan

    If Republicans can’t win in 2012, there will be no country left in 2016. And this is not some quaint notion.

  • JSobieski

    Romney is relying on advantages that he won’t have in the general election.

    Meanwhile, the nominee will not have such severe disadvantages of the other 3.

    These facts can’t really be disputed.

  • independentconservative

    Romney has money to fare better than the rest once he gets the nomination. Plus Sheldon Adelson of the Las Vegas casino fame is going to be key if and when he really does contribute $100M alone to the GOP nominee. Foster Friess will probably get on board and others like them once Santorum is out. Adelson it is believed, wants Obama out so bad, he’ll give tens of millions (rumors of $100M) just to whoever gets the nomination but until Gingrich is out, he is Adelson’s guy.

  • dennis1111

    I see it that way too. Thanks for saying it. Principle will win in a principled Nation. We shouldn’t give up on our principles or our Nation. Vote Newt. Best, dlc

  • major

    One step at a time, dorks.
    WE WILL WIN AGAINST OBAMA.

  • iluvit

    This post by shadowmane remiinds me of the Perot debacle. I have a good friend who is an anesthologist and quite brilliant except for politics. He was so sold on the plain talk (lunacy) of Perot that he still voted for him even when it was evident that he had zero chance of winning. The combination of those protest votes made the difference and look what we got for that stupidity.

    Romney is certainly not a safe choice but he sure is better that a full blown socialist who will destroy the country with another four years unrestrained by the fact that he cannot run again. Think about what your saying protest voters. The next president will appoint two or three Supreme Court Justices which is more important than the Presidency itself considering the thought of having Ginsberg clones. No way! You gotta be kidding me.

    So whomever we nominate grow up and do the smart thing instead of a kicking and screaming tantrum. that gets us nowhere. If he turns out to be milktoast then we primary him in 4 years. If we get the house and senate we can keep Romney under control.

    I am praying for a brokered convention and someone else to get in with real fire in the belly. Rubio would take the country by storm and could be drafted in a single second ballot.

  • iluvit

    If you really believe that Romney and Obama are in the same universe when it comes to politics then you have no credibility whatsoever. He would be my third choice but given the choice there is no choice. I cannot advocate for Romney in the primary but in the main event, there is no question.

    It is true that he might not (who knows) fight aggressively for the big cuts in government and promote expansive shifts in policy like some of the others, but we do know what Obama will do. So nobody is going to take your argument that they are generally the same.

    Do you really believe that they will have the same energy policy, tax reforms, regulatory policies, social policies, and basic protections of our freedoms. No way.

  • iluvit

    so I would put more faith in the electoral charts. We will do ok matched up with Obama either way.

  • iluvit

    so I would put more faith in the electoral charts. We will do ok matched up with Obama either way.