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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Trayvon Martin — The Facts and the Bubble #EERS

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  March 22nd, 2012 at 05:38 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

Tonight, I’m going to spend a bit of time discussing the Trayvon Martin story. There seems to be a concerted effort by the left to take on this cause and turn it into some sort of partisan issue. But there isn’t a partisan issue. There is, however, a matter of justice. There is also a difference between many of us and what we think is news and what others think is news. What I didn’t think was a national news story is clearly a national news story to a lot of people. Why the disparity? I’m going to get into it tonight. At 7pm ET, Roland Martin will join me to discuss it.

You can listen live tonight on the WSB live stream and call in at 1-800-WSB-TALK. The show starts at 6pm ET.

Consider this an open thread.

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COMMENTS

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  • gekster

    ..

  • http://www.erickerickson.org Erick Erickson

    slowing things down.

  • gekster

    :)

  • runner12

    was at my gym. There are some things that have disturbed me about how the media has covered this story, including Fox News.

    From the little facts that are known, it appears that this poor boy was a victim of a vicious crime. But we live in a nation of laws and facts and people are innocent until proven guilty. No matter how angry it makes us, we cannot engage in mob rule. I feel that the media was almost pushing this kind of a frenzy. Some outlets falsely put out the meme early on that the shooter was white, and he was not, trying to stir up more fervor.

    It appears that some are even trying to push anti-2nd amendment rhetoric and/or try and take down the “stand your ground” legislation in Florida. Despite the fact that the sponsor of this legislation said that the law did not apply in this case (as it looks like the shooter pursued the young man, despite being told not to by 911 operators).

    By using evidence and facts, justice will be done. It will unfortunately not bring this young man back to his family, but it may bring some sense of justice. What we need to ask ourselves is what made this man single this teenager out? Was it based on race? Based on what we know right now, it appears that played a role. Additionally, the police in this case need to be questioned to ensure that they did their job properly. There have been some legitimate questions as to whether they did or not.

  • BuckeyeTexan

    Are you now actively supporting Romney or are you simply taking the position that his nomination is inevitable?

  • westcoastpatriette

    http://www.redstate.com/dan_mclaughlin/2012/03/20/trayvon-martin-and-perspective/

  • RSSS

    that those of us not in Florida are getting exposed to this story, even that I (not in Florida) even ended up forming an opinion about it.

    Hopefully this will fade away from the national dialogue. In the meantime, I pray for justice to be done.

  • Scope

    Zimmerman is saying that Trayvon is checking him out, and then he says that he is following Trayvon. So, if Zimmerman is following Trayvon, he wasn’t the one being stalked so to speak, right? Why would you follow someone just for checking him out, looking like he was up to no good, and that they always get away? Why would you follow someone for “checking you out”? Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon, but if Zimmerman was in fear for his life, why would he follow him? How could he claim self defense if he was the one following Trayvon? I’ve just heard today that Trayvon was in the morgue for 3 days before the police even tried to find his family. Even though Zimmerman called the police something like 40 times in the past for suspicious behavoir of people, didn’t the police know the guy was a ticking time bomb? especially when he said they always get away? I’d love to know who he called the police on before?

  • gekster

    It went pretty much like you say.
    He was told to walk away, and he didn’t.
    That should raise a red flag if anything would.
    And on a side note, I’m sure someone has already said it, but if the victum was white, there would have been no uproar.
    Al Sharpton wouldn’t even have batted an eye.
    And before anyone decides to jump on me,
    any loss of innocent life is wrong, no matter who.
    I’m just saying.

  • runner12

    That was a good read.

    It makes me ill to see Lefty political media hacks using a tragedy to push their own ideology.

    A young boy is dead and a family is grieving. Based upon the facts that are known right now, it appears that he was followed and attacked. I wish he had knocked on a neighbor’s door when he realized he was being followed, but the poor kid probably thought he was okay because he had his cell to call for help.

    A truly sad story.

  • freedom555

    As Joe Scarborough pointed out….the police would have handled this case very differently:

    The shooter of a white teenage boy would have been questioned.

    The parents of the white teenage boy would have been contacted—and consoled—- in less than 3 days.

    Still to me THE IMPORTANT ISSUE in this case is one that affects everyone, of any race:

    HOW is an obviously incompetent and unstable person like Zimmerman, the shooter, allowed to serve as an armed member of a Citizen Watch group?

  • drivlikejehu

    There is no story here except a neighborhood watch captain was trying to do his job, someone attacked him, and he had no choice but to use his gun. This was at an apartment complex which has a massive crime problem the police can’t or won’t fix.

    Zimmerman got out of his car to see what Martin was up to, since who knows when the police would have showed up. Some words were exchanged and Martin attacked Zimmerman and was probably going to beat him to death. When police arrived Zimmerman was on the ground with multiple head wounds. Martin had been on top of Zimmerman, beating him, while Zimmerman cried out for help.

    Note that model student Trayvon was on 5-day suspension from school, which guarantees the offense was quite serious.

    It is really obnoxious to see alleged conservatives fall over themselves to defend some violent thug while so many thousands of true innocents are murdered every year.

  • freedom555

    Yet the voice recordings are of the teenage boy screaming for help..

    He was screaming for help and you hear his voice stop with the sound of Zimmerman’s gunshot.

  • drivlikejehu

    It was Zimmerman, confirmed by at least one eyewitness and Martin’s own father. The scream stops because the gunshot stopped Martin from pummeling Zimmerman further.

  • MrDaveRite

    The evidence is there….the watch captain was being beaten…he had followed and watched and called cops before…and arrests had happened AND CONVICTIONS! This time, the six foot two football plater turned on him, and began to beat him.. He needed stitches afterwards. Witnesses were afraid to intervene and just retreated to call police. The football player was on top of the watchman beating him, and his cries for help went unanswered. He finally had to defend himself. And a racist like Al. :tawana brawley/ sharpton is going to try to stir up a lynch mob. We the people must say NO. Let the investigation happen. Let the grand jury see ALL the evidence. But, IF it shows this man likely defended himself tron this strong athlete who wanted to beat him to death, then it WAS self defense.

  • gekster

    If he had walked away, like the 911 operator had told him to do,
    would he have been beaten.
    And for the sake of arguement, was he walking away and was chased and beaten.
    I’m just asking, as it seams you know more about this than I have heard.

  • drivlikejehu

    You can make the argument he should have just observed. But that’s a judgment issue, not a legal one. He had every right to approach Martin and speak to him (i.e. to ask if he had a right to be on the premises).

    An eyewitness said Martin was walking back to his car when Martin attacked him. Every single piece of information so far supports the self-defense claim. No contrary evidence has been presented.

  • drivlikejehu

    I meant when Zimmerman was walking back to his car.

  • ennaneko

    The neighborhood watch guy probably stopped him and asked him what he was doing.

    Kid is in puberty and black. He’s probably conscious about the “stats” on black kids getting stopped by police. Kid probably gets ticked off because of hormones and gives the neighborhood watch guy some lip or cusses him out.

    Neighborhood watch guy gets into heated argument. Boy in puberty has blood go to his head and he pushes or smacks the neighborhood watch guy. Fight ensues. Gun gets loose and then one thing leads to another.

    Now the media wants to lynch the white guy, enrage people along racial lines, and further divide people so they remain exploitable.

  • gekster

    I have seen a few stories, and heard reports on the radio, but this is the first time
    I have heard that part, or of an eyewitness.
    I would say I wonder why not the acurate reporting, but I think I know why.

  • runner12

    In this it is clear that Zimmerman was following this boy against the advice of the operator. This put both him and the victim in a dangerous situation.

    Additionally, I have heard accounts that the young man was speaking on his cell phone when he was attacked from behind. He commented to his girlfriend on the phone that a guy was following him and it was creeping him out.

    Listen, it makes me ill that those on the Left are using this to further their agenda and stir up racial tension. But the facts, as we know them right now, do not look good for Mr. Zimmerman. It is possible that it was Martin who acted in self-defense.

    The cell phone conversations and the 911 tapes may shed some additional light on the specifics. As to the eye-witness acounts, unfortunately they only saw portions of the incident and not how it unfolded from the beginning.

    The facts will come out in this case and we need to remain calm until it does.

  • rabun1016

    I don’t think the shooter probably did any of that. (Based on the phone call played on the national media)

  • drivlikejehu

    The 911 call only shows that Zimmerman left his car to approach Martin and subsequently Zimmerman is heard screaming for help. It’s understandable Martin would wonder why someone was following him- that’s probably why Zimmerman wanted to identify himself and find out if Martin had a right to be there.

    It is extremely unlikely Martin was acting in self-defense. Again, when Zimmerman shot him, Martin was on top of Zimmerman, beating him severely. Zimmerman was totally overpowered physically by the 6’2 football player. It is hard to imagine any scenario where that would constitute self-defense. Note also that Martin could have easily outrun Zimmerman.

    There is flat-out zero evidence at this point that Zimmerman did anything wrong. To say otherwise is to parrot race hustlers like Sharpton. Don’t swallow media nonsense so easily.

  • Scope

    from your self imposed electronics vacation. I was kinda worried about ya there for a while. Glad to know you are OK.

  • gekster

    I must say I am truely suprised at all the posters who have missed me.
    The concern is appreciated.
    Along with PTTX(Mom) you are one of my favorite RS friends, but I think you already knew that. ;)
    Good morning and have a great day.

  • gekster

    I must say I am suprised by all the posters that missed me.
    You do know you are one of my favorite RS friends, along with PTTX(Mom).
    )I havn’t heard from her yet, do yo know how she is doing?)

    I hope you have a great day and may God bless. :)

  • gekster

    I posted my first comment, and when I posted, it didn’t show up, so I posted again.

    I guess I should check for a moth stuck in my relay. :)

    ( for those of you wondering what I mean, one of the first computers, in 1945,
    wasn’t working, and upon inspection, a moth (bug) was found to be stuck between the contacts of one of it’s relays)

  • MrDaveRite

    The Letter from the city of Sanford Florida makes it clear that the 911 operator did not have authority and did not make an authoritative command. The exact words were, “we don’t need you to do that” They were not, YOU MUST NOT do that. That would be a significant difference.

    The other issue here is the fact that Zimmerman is mixed race himself. Some are mistakenly reporting him as white, but it is not true. His own father says he is multi-racial, with family members from black, white, and hispanic races. It brings to question why this is being misreported. Is it because people have not been looking into the facts and just swallowing what is being pushed by people with ulterior motives?

    Also, it has been misreported that he always made false reports to 9-11. There was at least one conviction with the recovery of stolen goods due entirely to his observation and reporting. He also required 13 stitches after the confrontation with the football player. It seems understandable to me to question the presence of someone loitering in the neighborhood, whom you have never seen before. As neighborhood watch, what would we expect him to do? Watch? Question? Call the police? He did all three.

    It is starting to appear that the actual facts do not matter. There is a lynch-mob mentatlity about this, rather than a careful investigation. It sounded so bad when I first heard it that i was angry for the damage done to the “stand your ground” law. But, I see it differently after looking at the facts and witness accounts. He was within a few feet of his car. It does look like he got out, possibly to question the young man. But even that is not certain. We also know the youth was on a five day suspension from school, but the school is under threat not to tell why, from the family attorney. What is certain is that he was being severely beaten and he was the one calling for help, and they neighbors all went inside or ran away. If the reports of 13 stitches are true, if the injury to the back of his head is true, this is clearly self-defense.

  • Juggernaut

    on senate and house races and would not endorse anyone but would vote for whomever the nominee is. That’s as good as it gets with most of the not-Romney crowd present company included. I think we’ve lost 2012 as the class war rants from the left will hurt Romney if he wins. Plus the states are going after women with contraception and abortion so dems will pursue the 53% of women who vote. Its going to be close if the gop wins.

  • renl57

    The Left has seized on this incident, not just for racial reasons, but to push gun control for the 57,000th time:

    Gail Collins: “I am thinking that the best solution for all concerned would be a strict national gun-control law that makes it very difficult to get a concealed weapons permit, permits gun dealers to sell only one handgun per individual per year, and makes it illegal for even permit holders to keep handguns anywhere but their home, store or car glove compartment unless they are employed in the security business. ”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/22/opinion/collins-pity-the-poor-gun-lobby.html?_r=1

    Read the comments posted to her column, if you want to see the Left’s mentality in action once again.

  • funwithknives

    how many ‘LawBreakers’ would there be, then??
    Answer: Untold Millions. Count On It……….

  • BuckeyeTexan

    “There will be no white knight, no dark horse, and no brokered convention. We have our nominee.”

    was clear that he believes Romney will be the nominee, but wasn’t an endorsement. So I wondered whether or not criticism of Romney will be tolerated at RedState.

    Since Perry dropped out, I have supported Newt and hoped for a brokered convention.

    Tex

  • runner12

    For walking down the street? What exactly was the young man doing that caused so much suspicion and that warranted the man leaving his car? Martin had no idea who the guy was. If a strange man was following me and got out of the car to approach me, I would be terrified. These are legitimate questions that must be asked.

    With regards to the 911 call, it illustrates that Zimmerman followed and approached Martin against the advice of the 911 operator and suggests he began the confrontation.

    As to the media, I am highly skeptical of everything they report. If you read upthread, you will see that I am highly critical of the way they have handled this. I also deplore the Left shamelessly using this incident to push their agenda.

    All of that does not change the fact that there are many things in this case that do not add up and that warrant further investigation. Mr. Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty and a court of law will determine what the truth really is. Until that time, all we have to go on is the small amount of information that is trickling out and that has been often contradictory.

  • drivlikejehu

    Zimmerman was 100% within his rights to just ask Martin if he had business on the property. Zimmerman is a resident and neighborhood watch captain, not that the latter carries legal significance.

    Could Martin have been surprised by this? I guess. But how does he go from ‘creeped out’ to being on top of someone, beating the life out of him?

    Again, this is a place that has a huge crime problem. You have no right to just walk onto private property and be free from even being asked if you should be there. I don’t see how any conservative can be siding with race hustlers and Marxists on this.

  • uselogic

    It was a tragic situation that has been made worse by media and other parties who have flown in to take advantage. There has been a lot of mistakes, misreporting and rushing to judgement. Many questoins are still unanswered but that doesn’t stop “opinionators”.

    Reminds me of the Casey Anthony situation in some aspects.

  • demsaresatanic

    I don’t believe the AHCH media for one minute on this.

  • Stricia

    –

  • demsaresatanic

    AHCH media is a sockpuppet;
    http://www.redstate.com/erick/2012/03/16/against-partial-repeal/#comment-177276
    praytell, what is a lying coward?

  • BillM

    To story where there are any eyewitnesses to the Martin-Zimmerman physical confrontation, and where Martin’s father “confirms” Zimmerman was “screaming for help.”

  • Stricia

    It is clear to see that you have no honest intentions in this thread.
    So, go wash your “sock” — it stinks!

  • BillM

    …and 140lbs. I’m sure every college football coach in America was recruiting him. Link for his size from Sacramento Bee http://www.sacbee.com/2012/03/22/4359797/trayvons-parents-paint-portrait.html

    How big is Zimmerman? He looks to be a burly adult male with hopes (now dashed) of a law enforcement career.

  • westcoastpatriette

    And a lying coward. When are you going to address your very first post here lying about demsaresatanic and avagreen?

  • BillM

    A very “strong athlete” I’m sure.

    Link to actual newsite where there eyewitnesses afraid to intervene to help Zimmerman and ***retreated*** to call 911. All the stories I’ve seen, the 911 callers were afraid to leave their homes.

  • Stricia

    You have no point. I suppose that’s why. My belief about the other poster in question is none of your concern and quite frankly, dems can take up for herself.

  • BillM

    The school can’t release the information about Trayvon’s suspension under privacy laws. If I’m mistaken about FL student privacy laws, I apologize.

    Link please, to letter from Sanford City you reference, and also to news stories *confirming* eyewitnesses saw Martin “severely beating” Zimmerman and “ran away”.

    Trayvon was not “loitering”, he walking (on the sidewalk) to a home in the community where he was an invited guest.

    I agree with you 100% that there needs to be a careful investigation. Almost all the initial reports from Jena, Duke lacrosse, & esp Columbine, turned out to be wildly inaccurate.

  • westcoastpatriette

    of being a sock puppet using demsaresatanic as another name. And you interjected these lies in the middle of an intense dispute that ava and I were having with lapert. You are either a troll of the first order or a vicious liar with ulterior motives or both. In any case, I just like to stay on top of snakes in our midst so I thought I would assist dems’ in trying to confront you to see what you have to say for yourself.

  • freedom555

    “. Kid probably gets ticked off because of hormones and gives the neighborhood watch guy some lip or cusses him out. ”

    “. Boy in puberty has blood go to his head and he pushes or smacks the neighborhood watch guy. Fight ensues. Gun gets loose and then one thing leads to another. ”

    What you see as “probably” what happened requires filling in a lot of blanks in the reports so far.

  • Stricia

    especially when these individuals are your “friends.” When was the last time you all went out for dinner. Get real, sister friend! If you don’t like what I write, ignore it.

  • BillM

    My guess is his interaction with Trayvon Martin would’ve lasted under a minute, and been icily cordial at worst.

    What if Trayvon Martin had been a hardcore gang member? My guess is Zimmerman may well be the one dead now, though his life is essentially ruined going forward regardless of his legal/civil culpability in this tragedy, if any.

    It’s called Neighborhood “Watch” for a reason. Unless they’re inside your home or coming right at you leave the law enforcement to the professionals. It’s not as easy as it looks on TV, and this incident is Exhibit A.

  • westcoastpatriette

    about innocent people — accusations that could get them banned if they were true — without speaking up in their defense. Obviously, it means not a thing to you which explains why you are such a diehard Romney lover. He has no qualms about smearing people either. So, I am making it my business for the sake of the community here. Just watchin’ ya chick.

  • Stricia

    What a joke, right?

  • Addison

    He was 6′ tall, and 160 pounds, according to the police report linked on the City of Sanford’s web site. This is quite normal, and only 3 inches taller (and MUCH skinner) than Zimmerman. So, Trayvon was a football player, but he wasn’t some Wilfork or Gronkowski type as you mean to imply by repeating that label again and again.

    Where is your citation that Zimmerman needed stitches? I can’t find it myself, it’s just this thing that keeps getting repeated like an urban legend. He had blood on the back of his head and from his nose. The police did a poor job of documenting why.

    A lot of this false information about both Zimmerman and Martin is being passed around comments sections. A lot of it appears to be false.

  • ennaneko

    I’m just offering my speculation of how it could have gone down.

    Reading more up to date reports, it does seem like ZImmerman was acting in self defense.

    I think the media latched on to this story because of Zimmerman’s name, gun, and neighborhood watch activities. To liberals he fits the stereotype of a Minuteman or a “redneck” vigilante transplant from Texas. In their minds they think Zimmerman is Yosemite Sam.

    The media may back down because of Zimmerman’s mixed racial background. The media wants a WASP or something close to tar and feather.

  • deVere

    But facts mean nothing to either the howling racist lynch mob, or the so-called conservatives eager to pander to the mob.

  • runner12

    is not walking on private property (which was what Martin was doing). Additionally, Martin was not trespassing. He was walking in the neighborhood in which he was staying. That is not a crime nor is it suspicious in any way. Unless carrying a bottle of tea and Skittles is now considered suspicious.

    As a Conservative, I am always interested in truth above all else. Just because the Left is hijacking this tragedy for their own benefit and trying to stir up racial hostility does not nullify the possibility that Zimmerman was wrong in this case. It also does not mean that the police handled this properly, which by all appearances it looks like they bungled it from day one.

    The truth will come out in the end. Certain facts point one direction, other facts point another direction. This is why it was important for the police to thoroughly investigate initially. It was not an open and shut and it is not now.

    If the facts exonerate Zimmerman, I will be happy. If they convict him, I will be equally happy. Why? Because the truth will be known and justice will have been done.

  • freedom555

    BillM, I agree that one lesson from this case is :

    ” Unless they?re inside your home or coming right at you leave the law enforcement to the professionals. ”

    A question to answer brought on by this tragedy is

    ‘Can We Keep Gun Freedoms ——– while attempting to keep guns out of the hands of the Mentally Unstable?’

  • greyeagle

    Obama is currently working with the UN to register and control small arms in the US and the world. No one is sure what regulations would be in this treaty, but all guns in the US would be registered by a global body. What is known sound very restrictive. In the case of this shooting, the shooter was a neighborhood watch and was not supposed to pull a weapon or even follow this young man. Don’t know how this will turn out, but the liberals are already howling for gun control.

  • MrDaveRite

    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/21/sanford-florida-police-answer-questions-about-teens-shooting-death/

  • gekster

    From the statement from the police chief of Sanford, Florida.
    “Zimmerman?s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon.”
    _________________________________________
    Lets see how many news outlets report that.