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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

What’s in Romney’s Unreleased Tax Returns: He Overpaid His Taxes

By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  July 19th, 2012 at 11:43 AM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

Ben Domenech has been doing some pretty solid reporting in The Transom (you’ve subscribed, haven’t you?) about what might be in Mitt Romney’s taxes. He offers this morning the best and most informed theory.

Why most informed? Well, he talked to people who were familiar with the veep vetting process for McCain in 2008.

Here’s what he reports:

So what about the years before 2009? We know he turned over more than two decades of returns to the McCain campaign during the veepstakes vetting process. What was in them? “Mitt’s taxes were complex, but clean. He overpaid his taxes.

An honest appraisal would find nothing to criticize, though Romney’s staff, for better or worse, doesn’t seem to trust the returns to be honestly appraised by the media,” says a source closely familiar with the 2008 vetting process. “To be clear, there’s stuff in the tax returns the dishonest or ignorant can snark at, though it pretty much comes down to criticizing Romney for being rich. There’s nothing indefensible, but as with a lot of the attacks on Bain, Romney isn’t defending. As a game theory matter, people are going to assume the worst. But presidential general election politics seems to be about something other than dealing directly and straightforwardly with issues, so maybe this strategy is focus-grouping better with disengaged independents.”

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COMMENTS

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  • wintermute

    Look, I like Romney and when I step into the voting booth im going to be pushing the button for him with the fury of 1000 angry gods, but c’mon… if he overpaid his taxes, right now would be the absolute perfect time to demonstrate that but he isnt going to. This is a big stretch.

    I do no understand why we arent just brushing this aside. Engaging in the discussion about his taxes is just surrendering. The people pushing these arguments should be mocked, not debated.

  • 1bunny

    it just helps and feeds Obama’s meme. It’s not hurting him except inside the Beltway. Article I read yesterday says that local papers aren’t even writing about RomneyTaxes they focus on the local economy instead. Have you seen the latest poll Obama favorable down from the nasty campaigning he’s been doing – he only hurt himself not Romney.

  • ctredstater

    if he releases three more years, they will howl for more. if he releases 20 then it gives the media and the Obama campaign (but I repeat myself) several more weeks of “stories” to distract from the Ongoing Obama Disaster. no thanks.

    what frosts me is all the self-appointed, self-annointed Beltway Strategy Geniuses (many of the McCain 2008 and Bush era re-treads) who are trying to garner a few more Georgetown cocktail party invitations by their enlightened call for more returns.

    Instead, they should be hammering Obama to remove the bogus Executive Privilege claim and release details on his academic background, his real estate sweetheart deal, etc.

    Hang Firm, Mitt!!!!!

  • teaforme2012

    then Romney has the most inept campaign staff since McCain, I guess. Come on. I don’t think the tax issue is hurting in national polls, but the electoral erosion is palpable. Ohio, PA, Michigan, Iowa, Virginia…those are the states where this is likely to resonate most, and team Obama understand the politics of the heartland better than anyone.

    Intrade.com has Obama pulling ahead by almost 20 percentage points. That’s not from the Supreme Court decision. Or Bain, or dressage. It’s the secrecy of his taxes, and blue collar voters turning their backs on the GOP, and even our own party is smelling blood on this. Someone has to tell Ann to be careful with her “all you need to know” quotes, too.

  • http://redpillreport.net/ RedPillReport

    No matter what Romney’s taxes might show, the Obama attack team will spin then into a class warfare weapon. That is what this is all about anyway. For the past few weeks, they have successfully kept Obama’s massive failures out of the spotlight while Romney has been engaged in the Bain outsourcing and tax return red herrings.

    Go on offense, Mitt! You’re better at offense than defense, and his record is indefensible!

  • wintermute

    of the battleground states you cite i think one has a poll since the intense anti-bain and tax kerfuffle started…and it has Va closed to a TIE.

    The whole thing is irrelevant, on the merits and in the minds of the voters. Its just not working. And further, blue collar workers arent fleeing the GOP, its the opposite.

    We’re doing well.

  • dragan

    So to sum up, Romney is not releasing his tax records because he has overpaid taxes and the O team would bury him on that. If this is the logic of the Romney campaign staff, no amount of conservative enthusiasm would save Romney.

    Why let meaningless perceptions build up ? Just release the tax returns and get quickly back to the serious issues. Is this something difficult to comprehend ?

  • wintermute

    then a foot becomes a mile.

  • swami7774

    …in “The Thomas Crowne Affair”:

    You overpaid.

  • MSU_Charles

    It could be that he has a low effective tax rate in 2008 & 2009. Most serious investors did due to the massive losses incurred across capital markets during those two years. The White House has been harping on the so-called Buffett Rule regarding tax rates for years. If his effective rate puts him at or below the current capital gains rate then perhaps the Romney campaign feels that is a vulnerability. I don’t believe it to be, but I’m not a political strategist either.

  • FlyingTigress

    Anything that he does will be spun.

    He overpays his taxes? “See, he has so much money that he doesn’t have to worry about overpaying the IRS!”

  • yuripup

    Like zero.

    Apparently the average *cough* $30+ millionaire had losses of around 25%. Those kinds of losses could wipe out his tax liability for 2009.

    Also kicked about is some fancy footwork to realize fewer taxes in the last year of his retirement package, or taking advantage of the IRA Swiss bank account amnesty program–though I can’t believe he would actually run if he had taken advantage of the last.

  • AndrewHyman

    There’s definitely something to be said on both sides. On the one hand, ransparency is good. On the other hand, the returns would inevitably be distorted, and the mire returns that are made public, the more returns would be demanded.

    I can support Romney’s decision to not release more. McCain only released two years’ of returns in 2008.

    However, if I were advising Romney, I’d suggest that he find out what Tex preparation firm does Obama’s tax returns. Have that firm confidentially look at ten years’ worth of Romney’s tax returns, and publish a ten-page executive summary. Compromise reached, issue settled, distortions avoided, decisions maintained, transparency promoted.

  • benko

    Simple. Say it out loud.

  • acat

    Are you the same yuripup who posts over at Jim’s watering hole?

    I’ll just point out that if Romney stayed within the letter of the law on taxes, he’s already done better than .. what was the last count, 36? of Obama’s appointees.

    Mew

  • teaforme2012

    I tend to rely on intrade, probably too much, rather than the polls, because I think the odds more accurately depict elections. I remember McCain/Palin looking strong until the Palin media onslaught started, and those intrude numbers started moving, well before the polls.

    But I don’t think we’re doing THAT well in battleground states. Mitt can’t flip and release these taxes in increments. None of it will look good.

    Either release them now, or don’t do it ever.

  • wintermute

    i dont look to them for anything though. we do have an uphill battle, but its not a steep one. Obama has an easier path to 270 for sure. Ive been saying from the beginning romney all of ohio, va, fl, and nc or its obama for 4 more years. when i was saying that i never imagined that romney would be within striking distance in places like michigan or wisconsin. I dont believe he will win in those places but its a testament to how crappy this president is doing.

    And he had better not release those tax filings. Do not show these jerks that you can be pushed around by a bunch of lightweights.

  • wintermute

    *romney must win all of ohio…

  • JEM

    Right now nothing the Plouffe/Obama monkey cage is hurling seems to be sticking enough to cause real harm, and about every third or fourth time one of them winds up to fire another load he steps on his pecker instead.

    Now, I believe that Romney and his bunch are smart enough to be doing their homework just in case, but at this point the Romney tax returns are a little like the Obama birth certificate – it’s that pinata the other side can’t quite reach, and when they jump to swing at it their pants fall down.

  • tnfriendofcoal101368

    Unlike Romney, convicted tax cheat, that Obama put in charge of the IRS.

  • Jack_Savage

    I feel embarrassed because he paid over one penny more than he should have in taxes to be squandered by those hot tubbing wine drinking green energy partisan hack no budget in the Senate curb the First Amendment worthless bastards.

    Don’t hate the playa, hate the game. Or is it easier for you idiots to whine than actually get off your rear ends and make enough money to worry about taxes?

    Don’t answer that. We already know.

  • rpjkw11

    Obamao is trying to control the dialog; the tail wagging the dog so to speak. Romney AND we conservatives cannot let that miserable White House ensconced POS control the election any longer! When he tries, Romney et al must change it. The MSM is always has and will continue to carry the liberturds water, but we CAN make our points to that part of the electorate that truly cares about this country.

  • lapert

    It seems unlikely he overpaid his taxes – if that can be proven he should be suing his I’m sure well paid accountant for malpractice.

  • yuripup

    Yes, from Baen.

    And while he could very well be well within the letter of the law with 0% (I don’t think he was stupid enough to cheat in ’09, and everything before was vetted* by the McCain team) it would blow holes in all sorts of policy positions and arguments that he would make–and I don’t think it would sit well with the average (repeat average) republican and independent voter.

    *for certain values of vetted.

  • AndrewHyman

    Obama did end up releasing a copy of the original certificate.

    Again, I?d suggest that Romney find out what tax preparation firm does Obama?s tax returns. Have that firm confidentially look at ten years? worth of Romney?s tax returns, and publish a ten-page executive summary. Compromise reached, issue settled, distortions avoided, decisions maintained, transparency promoted.

  • rightlane1111

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-07-18/arizona-sheriff-obama-birth/56296272/1

  • http://www.mtgriffith.com independentmike

    Yes, that’s a very good point–that the McCain campaign gave Romney a clean bill of health on taxes after they examined over 20 years’ worth of his tax returns. That’s a point that the Romney campaign should make when this issue comes up.

    Ann Romney made the point today that she fears that if Mitt released more of his tax returns, critics would unfairly snipe at them even though they contain no indication of wrongdoing. I suspected that this was the reason he’s not releasing more tax info, and it’s a valid reason.

    But when Romney people are asked about this, they should make the point over and over again that the McCain staff carefully studied Romney’s tax returns going back over 20 years and found nothing wrong.

  • tnfriendofcoal101368

    Every year he has filed them and found that Romney was completely within US laws unlike that noted tax cheat, Timothy Geitner who Obama put in charge of the IRS.

  • renl57

    I wouldn’t think much of a man who said “I’ll stop cheating on my wife when my neighbor does too.”

    Romney’s honesty and truth telling shouldn’t be dependent on anybody else. Would you really want a President Romney to say “Why should I level with the American people when my predecessor didn’t?”

  • riverwood

    Theories that Barack Obama is not eligible to the Presidency of the United States, or political movements based on that idea. Birthers must post their theories elsewhere

  • AndrewHyman

    The recent press conference by Sheriff Arpaio questioning the birth certificate should not alter the Redstate policy about prohibiting ineligibility theories. This was not Arpaio’s finest hour, and there still has not been any evidence presented to prove that Obama released a fake. National Review has already demonstrated that there’s nothing weird about any “layering” in the PDF that Obama released. Regarding penciled code numbers on the released form, it appears that the Arpaio team misinterpreted them, using a set of 1968 instructions instead of using a 1961 manual. This BC issue is now a minor distraction. It would probably be a major distraction if the president had refused to release the long form.

  • http://lukos.com Ed54

    nt

  • Common_Cents

    Romney can say if you don’t like the IRS rules, elect people who will change them

    Its cheats like Geithner and Rangel that should be prosecuted.

  • wintermute

    he has already released tax info. obama says thats not enough. he can go cry about it.

    if romney releases his tax docs i will be severely disappointed. do not cave to these thugs and their media sycophants.

  • tedjones

    Ya right, Mittens overpaid his taxes but he won’t release them because the big bad liberal media will make him look bad anyways.

    You guys are hilarious!

  • avagreen

    nt

  • avagreen

    nt nt

  • renny

    You libby trolls who come out from under your bridges for a breath a real air on occasion are not hilarious at all but are the fairy tale symbols of evil and mindless destruction even in the mind’s of preliterate children.

  • gekster

    Is it your turn on the group computer?

  • dragan

    I cannot believe that there are still these idiots who want to hurl trash at the conservative movement. Please note that the LSM is trying to bring this birther crap from time to time. We need to stop falling prey to this BS. I would even go one step further to repeal Sheriff Joe’s republican membership.

    We will have a big tent but we will not accommodate the birthers.

  • http://stevemaley.com Steve Maley

    Too bad for you, my favorite movie Goodfellas is on the cable.

    Do you know what happens when Nicky (Joe Pesci) goes to get “made”?

    (SPOILER ALERT)

    Blam!

  • trutexan

    and giving them up only feeds the insatiable monster.

    I agree with the posts above about if they were good enough for the McCain vetting process and the IRS hasn’t had an issue with them, then move along, nothing to see here. Love the dig on Geitner too.

  • trutexan

    And how did that work out for her?

  • citizenkh

    And once again us amateurs, Erick included, have failed to see that he could well be waiting to surprise the Left.

    Look, he really did not have to have much of a response to Obama’s “You didn’t build this yourself” had already backfired. All that he did this week in his speech is pay out more rope for the Obama Campaign.

  • PowerToThePeople

    did you go from the right lane into the crazy lane? Did you drink the kool-aid?

  • nick1936

    Where Mitt’s money comes from.

    Hey you right to lifers how can you support a man like Mittens who made money from a business that was in the process of disposing of the bodies of aborted babies. Oops I forgot he was pro Choice then that position at the time seemed to be a good business decision on his part. These are the types of enterprises that a person engages in when making money is the sole objective an be dammed with any morals.
  • edintexas

    It seems to me that a website which requires paid membership has a self-limiting universe to draw on. I suspect John Q. Public has never even heard of Intrade. Add to that the element of futures trading and the predictions may, or may not be worth much. Not having a few decades of results in predicting elections doesn’t add much to the confidence level.

    Polling has been, and is being, skewed to produce certain results, at least those polls which are public. So we can’t totally rely on polling results. That being said, polls surely have to be one element of the decisions members of Intrade use in placing their “bets” (after all, trading futures is legal gambling in the end).

  • commonsenseobserver

    By the way, at least try to avoid clashing with LifeNews.

    http://www.lifenews.com/2012/07/19/pro-abortion-catholics-united-runs-misleading-attack-on-romney/

    “Assuming Romney was involved with Bain through the end of 1999 and involved in the deal obviously doesn?t make him responsible for Stericycle?s business collected aborted babies from abortion clinics. Bain itself ? after Romney left the company ? divested from Stericycle well before it began its abortion-connected operations”

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    .

  • cactusjack

    when the WH dirt team has searched furiously for 12 months, but in angry disbelief can’t find a Monica or Rielle anywhere out there to come forward. (“We’re trying boss, honest we’re trying”) . After this, look for more stories again about the car garage thing in California.

  • bobguzzardi

    Obama’s college records will be interesting reading. Something to hide, Mr. President?

  • bobguzzardi

    Mitt Romney is rich and good looking — good for him.

    Envy is self-defeating.

  • camurd

    Who cares? Better questions is who paid oblamo’s way through out his entire life?

    Gov. Romney is a successful and knowledgeable person that would be a far better President that the never achieved anything on his own POS maxist that is currently holding the office.

    I say hold your Taxes Mitt at least until oblamo releases his college transcripts.

    This adminstration is a complete deja vu to the last days of the Nixion adminstration, and oblamo was going to change Washington and have the most transparent adminstrationin history, how’s that working out?

  • edintexas

    It may be that he considered slightly overpaying his taxes as cheap insurance. Cheaper than paying high-priced accountants and attorneys to defend an audit.

    I’ve experienced a nasty auditor once.

    “You didn’t provide proof that you paid anything for the house you sold, so it was a gift and the amount you sold it for was all profit.”

    “Where are your receipts for this line item (line item was (Charitable [or cash I no longer remember] contributions for which you have no receipts)”? “I put $X.xx in the collection basket at church on Sundays.” “Why don’t you have receipts from the church?” “Deduction disallowed”

    The whole audit went like that..

    At the time we had a joint income of around $12,000 (early 70s), and she claimed we owed about $3,000.00 in additional taxes and penalties. On reconsideration by a panel, the amount was reduced to $300.00 due to receipts lost in the move to my first job after college.

    It may well have been considered cheap insurance if someone with little income can be treated like I was.

  • edintexas

    If he did any sort of compromise, it would only feed the beast. And if he ever complied with all their demands, they would simply move on to the next red herring.

    Jeff Lord has a good article on this:

    http://spectator.org/archives/2012/07/19/mitt-is-right-no-more-tax-retu

  • ihateliberals

    Reagan with give a slight mention to the attack but would instantly push his agenda to the people. He stayed on message through the campaigns. Biggest problem Romney has right now though is there doesn’t seem to be a clear agenda or message. When Reagan spoke and presented his message he made you feel like he was talking to you personally. You felt a sense of patriotism and wanted to go find a flag and hug and kiss it. he didn’t spend much time attacking Carter or Mondale but staying on message every time he got a chance to speak. Obama has no platform to run on so his strategy is attack the opponent and create diversions. MSM has bought into Obama’s methods.

  • goodgovernance

    come off either too clever by half, or just feel so calculated they come off as condescending.

    In the debates he’s going to get the question where it’s pointed out he demanded Ted Kennedy release his tax records, when Mitt ran for Senate. The footage will be shown of Mitt doing it when he debated Kennedy. Then the moderator will turn to Mitt and ask, “So if releasing tax records was good for Ted Kennedy and the state of Massachusetts, why isn’t it good for you and the country now?”

    Mitt better be ready with not just a good, but great answer when that moment comes up. This should be Politics 101 but given how Mitt at times has been caught flat-footed, maybe somebody ought to go remind his campaign staff not to forget about this.

  • goodgovernance

    those paying members are drawing on all the data they collect from nonpaying sources all around them. Sure, their conclusions are nonscientific, but when you get a large enough sample size it tends to cancel out the biases and the crazies, and you’ve got as much chance of getting the right answer as any other means we have of predicting future voting patterns.

  • goodgovernance

    The birthers are on a self-destructive death spiral. Listening to anything they say would only help Obama get re-elected.

  • spolson

    Don’t the democrats realize that Peloci can’t stand up to a review of her tax returns. And there is a huge difference between Rommney’s money and Obama’s millions one worked for his the other has never worked a day in his life and can’t account for where his millions came from.

  • ihateliberals

    This is one approach Romney could take. I have a philosphy though that has done me well in my 60+ years. “Never wrestle with a pig…all that happens is you get dirty and the pig likes it”. Obama & the MSM being the pigs here. Romney needs to get a message that resonates with the people and push and stay on that message no matter what. Every time the press ask him about some stupid question make a point of getting his message out and not responding to the question. It would be like free national advertising.

  • lapert

    For you a conservative approach may be cheap insurance (though overpaying whatever your bottom line on your 1040 doesn’t seem like the way to go in any case). But for someone of Romney’s wealth where you have accountants on staff anyway managing your financial accounting there really is no point to not do all you can within the law.

  • cbartlett

    Agree with posts above – Romney doesn’t need to feed the “class warfare” mantra the Dems have created as a distraction by releasing any more returns. He needs to very simply say that the IRS is fine with what he filed and that should be sufficient. THEN turn and ask what Obama is hiding by not releasing his college records. Deflection and distraction goes both ways.

  • vhashrroberj2

    I think Romney should make an offer to release his tax returns on demand that it be at the time that Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi release thiers, and that Obama releases his college records with his passport records. All in the name of transparency that Obama and his progressive minions advanced in 2008.