I know you need to quash silly talk, and radical nonsense about secession and revolution and all that. But play it out, Neil. Red State’s own stated objective is, in part, to increase participation in GOP activities to return the GOP to conservatism from which it has strayed. It exists to elect Republicans, over Democrats, conservatives over liberals, constitutionalists over progressives, though sometimes those goals conflict.

So this is not the place to foment rebellion. I get that. But it’s rather glib on your part to dismiss Texas’ very natural right as a sovereign entity to disband its ties to the Federal government by threatening it with violence should it so choose. And while one might claim to be on the side of Liberty when picking the Union over the seceding Confederate states, one could hardly make such a claim today. Who is the oppressor now? Texas, or the Federal leviathan that threatens its funding for wanting to act in the interests of its citizens? Who here on Red State would actually take up arms to fight Texas and force it to comply with Federal laws everyone here agrees are onerous if not outright unconstitutional? Not I, nor I suspect not Neil.

Regardless, it is the natural order that ALL governments eventually over-reach and fail. And it is hardly silly radical nonsense or over-hyped rhetoric to point that out.

(In fairness to Neil, he did not claim the talk of secession was silly, radical, or over-hyped. He merely suggested we blockade Galveston and start a war — facetiously, I’m hoping.)

While re-fighting the Civil War here is pointless, the bottom line is that the states that make up this Union are in fact sovereign. They did not sign a suicide pact. So notwithstanding Mr. Lincoln’s achievements, secession is still very much a tool in every state’s toolkit when it comes to fighting Federal oppression. Long before that happens, however, I suspect that the 34 states necessary to call a constitutional convention will find reason to do so, and drive a stake in the heart of the federal leviathan. Failing that, however, liberty will out, and there are those who are going to be willing to fight and die for it.

Finally, given this government’s inability to seal a border, I doubt the people of Texas would be much concerned with a “blockade”. Unless of course the Feds also wanted to go to war with Mexico for selling good to the citizens of Texas, so many of whom are Mexican. And who would enforce this blockade? Democrats??? Hell, not only would they not fight, they’d wish Texas and others in fly-over country “good riddance”!

Bottom line, our hope lies not with squashing talk of secession, but by making the threat of a constitutional convention, secession, and any other tools at our disposal, very real and visible weapons against a federal government openly in defiance of Constitutional principles and liberty — whether that government is ruled by Democrats or Republicans. When they understand “enumerated powers” then we can put such talk behind us. Until then, everything’s on the table, and with Texas, Arizona, Virginia, and now Missouri begining to stand up, that show-down is coming sooner rather than later.

The question I have for you Neil, if all these states lose, and the Federal government wins, then what? When voting “Republican” isn’t enough because a judge or a court says we’re wrong, then what? What’s your Plan B?

As I said…play it out. The solutions get unpleasant in a hurry. So yes, vote Republican. If you’re in Chicago, vote Republican often. Hold this new Congress accountable, as it begins to control the Beast. But if this is just about growing the beast slower rather than faster, I assure you there’s gonna be he++ to pay.

I’m sorry…so because we might “lose” then we should just abandon any notion of fighting back as a last resort, because they have more guns, more weapons, more power, and because the Feds send my local constabulary money for new cars, and laptops, and such, even the local government will be against we, The People.

Um…no. (Especially my local police force — they would no more enforce an illegal order from the Feds than fly on the backs of pigs. The ones I know DESPISE this administration).

Aside from how utterly depressing that notion is, I find it eerily similar to the situation faced by THE COLONIES IN 1776. In fact, back then, even the local governments were a part of the of the Crown, and every member of law enforcement, every member of the military, and every member of the government worked for the King. Britain had the biggest, most powerful army and navy on the planet. We were just a bunch of farmers who thought a 25% tax on our morning beverage was good enough to go to war over.

And since 80% of the military would rather walk than help someone like Obama kill American’s because we won’t submit to a judicial or regulatory “boot to the neck”, I doubt we’d find a conflict that lasted more than oh, about the time it takes for 400K service members to resign simultaneously.

Veronica, there IS no exit strategy. Liberty triumphs or it dies. We either win, preferably through the ballot box and by enacting legislative changes that dismantle what this government has become, or failing that, through a constitutional convention that specifically addresses the government’s excesses. Failing even THAT, then yeah, there’s this thing called war. Because like our Founders, most of us would rather die than live under tyranny.

That not patriotic firebranding, that’s the price of freedom, and I didn’t coin the phrase, Patrick Henry did.

There are, we agree, a million peaceful and reasonable steps that can occur between today and some distant conflict. That Texas and Arizona, Virginia, and now Missouri and soon 21 other states are using court challenges shows we still have plenty of peaceful solutions before us. My exit strategy failing all else is the same exit strategy that Washington and the Continental Army had — fight and win, or die trying.

So what’s yours? Acquiescence? Acceptance?

And really — the “women and children” argument? If federal bombs get dropped by an Air Force willing to kill its own citizens, half the pilots doing the bombing are going to be women. So there are no protected classes in a conflict — there certainly weren’t any in 1865 either. When I think of the consequences of “losing” if we “duke it out”, that consequence is tyranny, oppression, confiscation of property, loss of any and every freedom we hold sacred. “Death” is quite preferable, thank you.

In the meantime, vote Republican.

Surely you did not mean that only Tea Partiers would be willing to die for this country’s freedom??

I’ve a degree in both political science and history from the University of Virginia. I know how one informs the other.
People try to separate history from current events, which is why history keeps repeating itself, as if those lessons are not themselves the very pragmatism we all seek. I also have a military service background. I know FULL well the extent of the Progressive cancer, and the “thread” the Federal government has woven into every facet of state and local authority. I also know personally, members of law enforcement, national intelligence, the FBI, the Secret Service, and a number of active and retired senior military personnel. And to whatever lengths you think the Federal tentacles reach, I assure you, there is not one among them that would raise a finger against an American. On the contrary….

NO ONE was trying to spark a war — or discourage the votes of the “stupid, timid, weak, and psychotic” to use your words (though stupid, weak, timid people tend to be Democrats). Neil mentioned it — facetiously, I’m hoping — when someone mentioned secession. I argue that secession is still on the table. Neil disagrees. My point is simply that at some point in the next 25, 50, or 100 years, there will be some kind of tipping point beyond which people will refuse to go. And my question to him was, if you don’t like secession, what’s your alternative? You seem to think that living under the progressive cancer you so rightfully called it, is preferable to death. I do not. And I CLEARLY said we should do NOTHING to hasten anything, secession or otherwise, until every option afforded to us is exhausted — including something that wasn’t available to those Americans in 1776 — getting a Congress to make the changes necessary.

So we are light years away from when anything we’re discussing here academically — in an extreme, worst-case scenario — would need to be acted upon. But it is interesting to see, even here in Red State, that there are those who may only be willing to take their principles so far, and in the face of “reality”….well, we don’t know, do we?

I have a three year old little girl, a 5 year old little boy, a 15 year old who wants to join the Army, and a 19 year old daughter.

Your point?

I and every male ancestor going back to 1863 have fought and or served in the military at some point. My father was an Army general. We knew far better than most what the cost and the price of war is. The cost of acquiescing and not fighting is far worse, I assure you.

But the question still remains….when everything else has gone to hell in a handbasket, and every court has ruled against you, and your state’s sovereignty is worthless, and your constitutional rights are adjudicated away, and you find yourself working not just January through May for Uncle Sam, but rather January through November, then what?

You’ve taken secession off the table, so there’s no place to move to. What exactly is the price you’re willing to pay to live free? It’s all fine and well to go die on foreign soil and fight for “Freedom” against bad guys, but what are you going to do when the bad guy is your own government (and this is a hypothetical…our government is not a “bad guy”. Yet.). It’s an academic exercise, Neil. No wrong answer.

I ask this because if not in your lifetime, but perhaps in the lifetime of your children or grandchildren, they’re going to be asked to pay that price. Here. Inside this country. So think about it…

Among all the alternatives, I’d argue that secession is the LEAST unpleasant, but I’m dying to hear what your choice would be.