« BACK  |  PRINT

RS

FRONT PAGE CONTRIBUTOR

What is America’s *Goal* in Libya?

Denial of airspace is a strategy, not an outcome

Update by Jeff 3/20/11 22:15: According to Jake Tapper, it now appears that SecDef Gates is warning against setting any goals for this action whatsoever. How’s that for clarity and sound military strategy?

Update by Jeff 3/20/11 18:10: The muddling continues, as it’s being reported that SecDef Gates, who initially opposed any action in Libya, is now opposing any action that would specifically target Qaddafi.

As you may have heard, the U.S. is now at war in Libya, leading a coalition of a dozen or so countries (including some nebulous group of “Arab nations” of which only Qatar will allow itself to be publicly named) in offshore SEAD strikes and anti-aircraft patrols against a country whose sole resources are oil and terrorism.  In this case, of course, there have been no presidential addresses to the nation explaining exactly what our rationale is for this action, and laying out our specific goals (contrast this to, to pick one example from the Iraq War run-up, President Bush’s statement to the nation explaining exactly why he was preparing to go to war there, and giving Saddam Hussein and his sons 72 hours to leave Iraq as a means of averting that war).  In fact, the president isn’t even on this continent right now; he’s in Rio, and he’s canceled any opportunities the press may have had to ask him questions about anything, including Libya.

That lack of explanation doesn’t appear to reach only to the American people themselves. Based on the statements of Sens. John McCain and Joe Lieberman, and of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen (whom you’d think would be a fairly important player in this action), Obama hasn’t bothered to tell the Senate or his highest military brass what the actual goal of our action in Libya is.

According to Mullen, the purpose of the multinational No Fly Zone over Libya is to “protect civilians and provide for humanitarian support.” To that end, Mullen said, the military participants hope force Qaddafi’s troops to “withdraw to their garrisons” to allow for that distribution of humanitarian aid. Surely, though, that’s not the entirety of the goal…is it? As in, once Qaddafi’s tanks and trucks are safely parked back in their motor pools, we’ll declare victory and sail away once again from the Shores of Tripoli?

The short answer is, nobody seems to know. As Candi Crowley pointed out on CNN this morning (yeah, I know, but I was on a plane and there were no other news channels available), both President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton, among others, have declared that Qaddafi must be removed from the position he’s held for the last 42 years. However, if this is the actual goal of the military operations in which we are now participating, somebody seems to have forgotten to pass that information along to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff – who, when asked what the goal was after Qaddafi’s forces have “withdrawn to their garrisons,” plead ignorance about the “political” goals or aspects of the action in Libya.

So, can Qaddafi keep his title, his position, and his country simply by calling off the dogs he’s set on his own people? It sure sounds like it, or not like it, depending on who you ask and what time of day it is.

Senators McCain (R-AZ) and Lieberman (I-CT) seem similarly confused, though they both stated they hope the action in Libya will result in Qaddafi’s removal (though they were very vague about their preferred means reaching that goal). McCain said this morning that Qaddafi had to be deposed in order for the mission to be called a success, a statement with which Lieberman not only agreed, but about which he said that, if the President of the United States said Qaddafi has to go and he doesn’t, then Obama’s (and America’s) credibility is shot.  Those sounds like some pretty high stakes there, yet – again – nobody seems to know whether the goal of this entire exercise is Qaddafi’s removal or not.

McCain did note that allowing Qaddafi to remain in his position would send a message to other Arab dictators that the correct course of action to take in the face of anti-regime protests is to “kill as many as you can in order to stay in power.” Lieberman concurred, warning that the so-called “Arab Spring” could meet a premature end (though today’s passage of a national referendum in Egypt which paves the way for the Muslim Brotherhood to rise to political power should once again warn westerners about getting prematurely excited about such “spring” events as those we’ve been witnessing over the last two months).

McCain also unleashed a sharply critical salvo at Obama for waiting too long for the UN and not acting on Libya far sooner, at very least by moving an aircraft carrier into position in the Mediterranean “a couple weeks ago.” McCain too, though, was nebulous about what means would be acceptable in the effort to depose the dress-wearing dictator, saying, “a couple weeks ago [a No Fly Zone alone] would’ve been enough,” but “now it’s not enough” – but, regardless, “no ground troops” should be committed to Libya. Enough to do what? Did that last sentence make any sense to you? Me either, yet that’s what the man said this morning. Such incoherence by a senior elected official in the face of a third simultaneous war being embarked upon by his nation is seldom encouraging.

Immediately after uttering the aforementioned incoherent statement about it being too late for just an NFZ to accomplish whatever the goal of our action is in Libya, but still being against ground troops there, McCain threw down a rhetorical gauntlet, saying that “the most mightiest [sic] nation in the world” is now matched against a “third or fourth-rate power,” and that he is “confident we can prevail.” I’m sure our soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines thank you for your confidence, Senator, but allow me to ask: What is it that we’re so confident we can accomplish here? Does anybody know?

With respect to accomplishing anything in Libya, the US and its coalition, which apparently includes the war version of sports’ infamous “players to be named later” from the Arab world, is not in as strong a position as McCain, Lieberman, and apparently Obama seem to think that it is.

This can be seen in the resistance to putting “boots on the ground” in North Africa.  It is a truth of warfare that air power alone – or even standoff weaponry alone – cannot win wars unless complete obliteration of the opposing territory is an acceptable outcome and an acceptable definition of “victory.”  Does anybody remember the Iraq War being won through the “Shock and Awe” campaign alone? Of course not. People must be present on the ground to fight, and to facilitate offensive standoff activity by providing intelligence, direction, and guidance to those on ships, in cockpits, and in command centers elsewhere.

If the coalition’s only goal is to enforce a No Fly Zone, then boots on the ground may not be necessary – but preventing Qaddafi’s air forces, such as they are, from reaching the skies will do very little when it’s the dictator’s armor and soldiers who are doing so much of the terrorizing and killing.  Are we willing to simply enforce the freedom of the skies over Libya while Qaddafi continues to slaughter his own people?

Adding a significant air-to-ground component to this action runs huge risks, particularly without troops on the ground. Yes, the US has ultra-accurate weaponry, including GPS-guided bombs that can be accurate to within a single meter – but without intelligence about where that targeted meter should be, they are next to useless.  Laser- and IR-guided bombs are similarly imprecise without a controller on the ground marking targets for these weapons. Further, given Libya’s makeup – it is constituted largely of desert with a small number of large cities – the majority of actual fighting is destined to take place in urban terrain, which is incredibly difficult and dangerous terrain in which to utilize standoff weapons without ground-level intel and terminal attack controllers.

Further, utilizing such weaponry in urban settings plays directly into the hands of our opponents PR-wise, as well. We’ve all seen it before, in America’s wars and in Israel’s: a guided bomb is dropped, and the next thing you know the enemy is claiming that women and children were killed, and is producing pictures to “prove” it. Sometimes this is true; sometimes it’s a result of the use of “human shields”; and sometimes it’s propaganda. Regardless of which category any instance fits into, the result is a disastrous optic event which plays to those in that part of the world, and here at home, who are already predisposed to think the worst of the West and its military activities.

Finally, McCain also made an interesting comment today about the “other capabilities” the US would make use of once it relinquished its role as leader of the coalition (a development Mullen spoke to repeatedly, but which seems, to put it mildly, less than realistic). McCain said the US can engage in “jamming [Qaddafi's] communications” – naturally – and in “getting some people trained.”

“Getting some people trained.” That, as I’m sure the Senator knows, doesn’t happen from a TLAM launch platform or from the cockpit of an F-15E or F-16CJ; it happens on the ground. This, of course, brings us back to a question I asked in the wake of the UNSC Resolution’s passage: What, exactly, constitutes a “ground troop” to those who make our military decisions (top among whom is President Obama)?  Are we really going to risk not only our pilots for a goal which nobody seems to know or understand, but our Special Forces as well (and, if anybody in the chain of command has half a brain, the aforementioned terminal controllers who absolutely should be accompanying SF into the country), who are already being worked beyond the limits of most humans’ ability in Iraq, Afghanistan, and several other locations around the globe?

The answer to that one seems obvious: of course we are. The answer to the more important question, though – what on earth is the goal of our action in Libya, and how will we know when it’s been achieved? – is, like the truth in X-Files, still out there. I wish I had confidence that the Chief Decider, President Obama, had the slightest clue what that answer was. However, if he does in fact know, he apparently isn’t telling anybody else, including the highest-ranking general in his own military.

How’s that for a confidence-builder?

COMMENTS

  • horizon3

    You don’t think for one instant that they sent B-2s all the way from Missouri to drop a few dumb bombs did you?

    There are SF teams on the ground there now, they are providing human intelligence and target direction.

    Our military rarely sends a plane in to attack anything without a scout and rescue crew in the area. Pilots, planes, and smart munitions are way to valuable to waste blowing up a hay barn, or a oil field parts warehouse.

  • Wayne

    The U.S. International policy is so convoluted it’s a wonder citizens are not being drafted to fight the far flung actions precipitated by 911. I have no problem with a war on terrorism, but this policy is so off the mark, I’m amazed that more conservative Americans aren’t up in arms (no pun intended) about all this. It would seem that we are being led by educated idiots, completely unfamiliar with what the Constitution mandates, or there is no intention to honor the limited role government is suppose to take in our lives. If we are going to fight terrorists, there are much more affective ways of doing so without violating the constitution and relieving us of our Inalienable rights.

    About all the Tea Party can do, is to keep the pressure on until either our representatives get the message, or we recognize it will be impossible to return to the limited government this nation was founded on and take a different tack in their attempt to bring reason and Constitutional governance to back to within the limits originally intended.

    I am not a peace freak. I am a patriot, former Marine that would not hesitate to stand and fight the “right” fight. But, this is far from that.

    My two cents…

    • aesthete

      Feelings that they feel strongly about! Feelings are totally a good way to chart policy in an unstable region with developments that we don’t understand, right?

  • Getting_Back_to_Basics

    While it is necessary that the Administration state clearly what the objective is and how they plan to accomplish it, let us not lose sight of how this war began: a military strike without Congressional authorization on a country which does not threaten the U.S.

    Setting aside whether this is the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do, the basics of how the President can go about starting a war need to be addressed, The lack of Congressional authorization is enormously serious for our republic. Yes, it has been done before, but that does not make this time correct.

    This is an impeachable offense.

    • irish2dabone

      This or any President doesn’t have the authority to bypass Congress.. but since when has that stopped this President? How many weeks have passed since the tragic shooting in AZ took place where Congresswoman Gifford’s was shot and other died as collateral damage? Several weeks… and as with Libya, this Pres has waited several weeks to comment and act on this.

      Well, you may recall last wk that Pres Obama finally weighed in on the AZ shooting, making a “proposal” on further gun control laws, since “Guns” are the reasons we have the problems in America. This elated the far-Left Groups and while such a proposal would never pass Congress, guess what… According to the Huffington Post and other L-winger’s, don’t be surprised when this Prez hands down another Executive Order, devastating the 2nd Amendment, despite last summer’s Supreme Court Douglass decision.

      Justice Dept Spokesperson Matthew Miller indicated via the proposal that “We should focus on sound effective steps that will keep guns out of the hands of the criminals, fugitives, people with serious mental illness, and others who have no business possessing a gun and who are prohibited by laws on the books in owning a gun…”

      I find the proposal interesting to say the least… while there are ALREADY (un-enforced) laws in place, keeping ” guns out of the hands of the criminals, fugitives, people with serious mental illness…” he goes on to include “…and others who have No business possessing a gun” so who’s left?? I believe he is referring to people like you and I… law abiding citizens.

      You may not care about the 2nd Amendment & that’s fine… but look around at other “freedom’s” going by the wayside the past two yrs

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    From the good folks over at TheRealRevo:

    Question to then Sen. Barack Hussein Obama on Dec. 20, 2007:

    In what circumstances, if any, would the president have constitutional authority to bomb Iran without seeking a use-of-force authorization from Congress? (Specifically, what about the strategic bombing of suspected nuclear sites ? a situation that does not involve stopping an IMMINENT threat?)

    Obama’s answer:

    The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.

    As Commander-in-Chief, the President does have a duty to protect and defend the United States. In instances of self-defense, the President would be within his constitutional authority to act before advising Congress or seeking its consent. History has shown us time and again, however, that military action is most successful when it is authorized and supported by the Legislative branch. It is always preferable to have the informed consent of Congress prior to any military action.

    As for the specific question about bombing suspected nuclear sites, I recently introduced S.J. Res. 23, which states in part that ?any offensive military action taken by the United States against Iran must be explicitly authorized by Congress.? The recent NIE tells us that Iran in 2003 halted its effort to design a nuclear weapon. While this does not mean that Iran is no longer a threat to the United States or its allies, it does give us time to conduct aggressive and principled personal diplomacy aimed at preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons.

    Some Dems are mad (reported at Politico):

    Liberal Democrats in uproar over Libya action

    Thank you.

    ColdWarrior

  • sta46

    but doesn’t congress have to appropriate the MONEY for this?

    • edintexas

      Yes, Congress has the “Power of the Purse”, but once the troops are in “harm’s way” there are few politicians who will pull the funding (not that I consider their reticence to defund the troops in that situation a bad thing).

      I suffered through the Mark Davis show this morning (Dallas, WBAP) talking about how thoroughly he detested the so-called War Powers Act (Congressional Resolution) and how in favor of this action he was. He believed it was simply another “front” in the War on Terror, though he acknowledged that we might be helping the Muslim Brotherhood, or other Jihadists, take over the country. He said he believes the President is the Commander in Chief and has the power to order the attack without the Congress. I’m not a fan of that resolution, but neither will I support a President who has attacked another sovereign country, which is an act of war, without at least obtaining a Congressional Resolution (passed by both houses of Congress) in lieu of a formal Declaration of War (which we don’t seem to bother with since 1941). If a country had attacked the US (recently, we’re not talking about Reagan’s action, or Lockerbie), then any President would be free to take action to defend the US without going to Congress for approval. But conducting war against another sovereign nation without a Declaration of War from Congress SHOULD be an impeachable offense. And the UN can not “authorize” the US to conduct war against another nation.

  • tennesseeg

    While I also wish that the fundamental question raised by this post (what is the goal of this military operation?) had a clear answer, as one of the more liberal readers of RedState I can’t help but feel a little twinge of schadenfreude.

    Watching events unfold in Libya, it’s hard not to think back 8 years to the lead up and beginning of the Iraq war. The author briefly mentions that President Bush laid out “exactly why he was preparing to go to war there.”

    I just have to take exception with that. I seem to remember a myriad of constantly shifting rationales laid out by the Bush Administration: first it was for the WMD, then it was to preempt terrorism in the region, then it was to build democracy in the Middle East, etc. The goal of our mission in Iraq seemed to morph (and still does) into whatever is most politically useful to the administration in power.

    For any conservative to criticize Obama for the lack of a goal (which, I should state again is a totally legitimate criticism) seems awfully hypocritical to me. Especially given the wide international support for intervention. The U.N. Security Council agreeing unanimously on anything is nothing short of a miracle.

    Again, I agree with everything the author says here and applaud him for saying it. One of the refreshing things about this recent Libyan situation is seeing the diversity of opinions among conservatives. If nothing else, I think we can all agree this is a messy situation and all available options are different shades of bad. There are plenty of good decent reasons to oppose any intervention in Libya and there are plenty of good decent reasons to support a full-blown ground assault. At the very least, this diversity of opinion seems to be reflected among conservatives, which is good to see. It would have been nice to see just a smidgen of this displayed in the run up to the Iraq war.

    • Tbone

      How dare you lie about how Bush laid out exactly why we were going into Iraq? You don’t remember? You never even paid attention though it is doubtful you have the reasoning capacity to have comprehended what was happening then any more than you know what’s happening now.

      • grateful_red

        The only hippocrit is stiing in the oval office.

        According to O’s standards, he’s in violation of the constituation. He didn’t get congressional approval or an authorization of force.

        The WMD argument was clearly laid out. It may have been based on incorrect intel and therefore wrong but we had a clear goal.

        I seem to remember there was an authorization of force, one that H. Clinton signed off on.

        Sucks when it’s your man in the hot seat dosen’t it?

        • GregInFla

          If a criminal shoots ten people, says he still has his gun and will kill more people he is holding hostage, should the police believe he is a threat? Would you fault a policeman for after asking the criminal to disarm and come out, but instead the criminal makes a move towards the hostages, shooting the criminal?

          Saddam did exactly this, but with chemical weapons, aka WMD. Case closed.

      • powertothepeople

        and funny, the leftist idiots love to proclaim there were no WMD, when in reality, quite a few were found.

        Even the old wiki leaks site has shown multiple WMD were found such as mustard gas, nerve toxins, chemical labs dedicated to weapons, blister weapons, etc. The only thing the left does is chant nonsense and then attempt to redefine what is a WMD even when all types of WMD are defined by the UN and other countries.

        And all this being detailed by a site that is clearly leftist/anti war/anti American and its chief officer is the same.

    • johnnyd

      The French and others in Europe were the ones calling for this and it is because they get their OIL……………………………………From Libya.

      I still get progressives throwing that BS claim around that we went to war for oil from the Iraq war and the last time I knew, we did not benefit from ANY OF IRAQS OIL.

      How about having the UN reimburse us for our costs to create the no-fly zone? Why are we the only ones that pay too keep the world safe?

    • tennesseeg

      I don’t post here often, but when I do I try to keep it respectful.

      Anyway, a couple of follow-ups to the responses to my post. First, I agree completely that there is a Constitutional issue here. I think that’s a debate worth having and I don’t blame any conservative for raising that issue. As some of you pointed out, Congress authorized the Iraq war with plenty of support from Democrats, in contrast to the current war in Libya.

      However, my larger point, which I stand by, is this: It is hypocritical for conservatives to complain that the President is leading us into a messy, complicated, civil-war type conflict in a Middle Eastern country. What seems patently obvious is that many conservative hate Obama so much they oppose this policies no matter what they are, even if they are uncomfortably similar to the previous President’s.

      Here are some non-rhetorical questions: What would a Republican president do differently in this situation? How would that be a better solution than whatever it is Obama is doing?

      • Tbone

        Besides, the liberal MSM and all the Democrats in Congress would have never let a Republican President use our military force just to keep a despot from killing his own people, at least they never have yet, have they? Cambodia ring any bells? Cuba? Do I need to list the other 20 or so over the last 50 years?

        Don’t you liberal realize that Muslims are against everything you think you stand for and will kill you for believing that way. Gawd you people are stupid.

        • aesthete

          Has there been a major attempt on the part of a Republican to invade or overthrow the Castros since the Bay of Pigs?

          Also, Cambodia’s king was a douche, but the Khmer Rouge actually took over after (and partly as a result of) our departure from the region.

          • Tbone

            In fact, liberals never seem to really care about people dying unless the US is causing it.

          • aesthete

            Just the other day, I was reading a book that stated that the USSR’s brutality was due to “the West” isolating it. Utter nonsense.

        • acat

          I don’t disagree, mind… the Hamiltonians especially strike me as kinda out there. Just checking.

          Mew

          p.s. http://www.lts.com/~cprael/Meade_FAQ.htm

          • Tbone
          • acat

            I provided a link to the sheet music.

            Mew

      • Raven

        And Constitutional authorization from Congress and there was a national interest in the invasion of Iraq.

        3 rather major differences between Bush’s Iraq policy and Obama’s Libya policy.

        All of which has been pointed out in the responses to your initial post. Please try to pay attention.

      • aesthete

        1) There is a difference between having a plethora of sometimes confusing and varying reasons for engagement, and none at all: whatever you think of the various rationales for war (and I agree that the terrorism link and nation-building rationales were garbage), they were out there. In the case of Libya, there was no discussion or explanation from the executive branch. If anything, there was an overabundance of garbage rationales for Iraq, not a complete lack thereof.

        2) Libya and Iraq are not even close to being substitutes in foreign policy: while Libya has not been a factor in our policy for 30 years, Iraq was a thorn in our side for the 14 years prior to invasion. Prior to that, it played a significant role in our Cold War politics in the region. Moreover, Iraq was a country whose economy and politics spilled over to and greatly affected the region; it wasn’t possible to just ignore it as we did Libya for all of these years. Bottom line: Iraq was important. Libya? Not so much.

        3) What would a Republican President do differently? If it were McCain, not much beyond getting Congressional approval. Other Republican Presidents may very well have either avoided interloping. I hardly see how this is relevant, given that the article does not posit that Obama is uniquely idiotic and that it mentions the “bipartisan” fools in favor of non-specific “intervention”.

        4) You mean some people are so much of partisans that they will oppose Obama no matter what? Perish the thought! Next, you’ll be telling us that politicians aren’t fully straightforward in their dealings with the American people. :) You’re not really telling us anything new here; it’s a non-sequitur and germane to the point. It’s really no more or less surprising than Dkos’ recycling of some Republican arguments for intervention in Iraq to support intervention in Libya.

        5) No one on this site cares about “international support” or the UN except insofar as they translate to something tangible.

        I think that Bush’s record, including foreign policy, was pretty terrible and worthy of critique, but you’re doing it wrong.

    • http://jeffemanuel.net Jeff Emanuel

      A goal is different from a rationale. The stated *goal* of our Iraq action was regime change. Period, dot, full stop. Everything else – WMD, terrorism, brutality – was rationale (which, to put it simply, is just gravy). *Reasons* are not *Goals.*

      This is a huge distinction, and you’re far from the only person who seems unable to recognize it.

      • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

        …to achieve the goal of never, ever thinking about how they had a moral choice to make, and how they flubbed it utterly.

        Eh. Antiwar progressives. Can’t live with them, pass the beer nuts.

    • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

      We really don’t need anybody here who confesses to taking pleasure at the sight of any of our readers being distressed that Obama has managed to reproduce everything about Bush’s foreign policy except for the competence. In case you haven’t noticed, those are real people that are going to be offered up to your man-god’s reelection eff…

      Wait. Why am I bothering?

  • itdiehard

    among independent uninformed voters!

  • Tbone

    McCain and all other Republicans should be screaming bloody murder about this illegal action by Obama. The Joint Chiefs of Staff should have refused his order. The are as crazy as he is.

  • Patricia_C

    But, according to Obama’s response regarding American participation in the air strike bombings in Libya… he assures the world that, although he authorized these air strikes, “we” didn’t actually hit anything…. Blame the French… blame anybody but the United States for accuracy in an objective…

    …. GOD, this man is embarrassing….

  • Marcus_Traianus

    they just hit Gaddafi’s compound with a missile.

    My this is quite a no-fly zone, isn’t it?

    I guess we could kinda understand taking out the GTA defenses. That keeps us safe in the air,,, But infrastructure, ground troops that are not engaged in battle and now the chief terrorist himself? Boy this sure sounds like an undeclared war to me with a goal of putting the “rebels” in charge.., because after all, we are staying in the skies- right?

    • edintexas

      Indeed, it is astounding. I’ve been just bowled over by the technical superiority of the Libyan forces. They have flying tanks and trucks! Must be, I heard a report that there were lots of tanks and trucks destroyed by air attacks. Since all we’ve been told we are doing, and the UN “authorized”, was enforcing a “no fly” zone, those tanks and trucks must have been flying.

  • Raven

    toward running against Obama next year. She has certainly laid the stage for resigning in disgust this summer.

    • edintexas

      It was, wasn’t it? One never can tell with the current administration just who thinks they are holding what position.

  • ghostship

    There is no national interest served in trying to help the rebels in Libya try to oust Qaddafi. If anything the ones seeking to overthrow Qaddafi will be much worse than him.

    Furthermore, our national interest would be best served by that region stabilizing so oil prices will go down. That’s not going to happen if another regime falls over there.

    Finally, in case some of you forgot WE’RE BROKE! We can’t afford another war and the money for nation building that so many so-called Conservatives are salivating about. Even if we did have the money, trying to build western styled democracies in Muslim countries is a PIPE DREAM that will just be another exercise in failure.

    The Jihadist’s have got to be doubling over in laughter at us stupid westerner’s helping them fulfill THEIR GOALS out of our blind naivete.

  • drfredc

    It’s time to step back a couple of notches on the US goal in Libya. There’s no US goal, other than to be involved. The overall goal is to restore the flow of oil to Europe.

    If Obama we truly shrewd, he have come out early and said something like the Libyian crisis is a humanitarian issue for the people of Libya and an economic crisis for Europe that get’s a lot of it’s oil from Libya. The US is here to help restore order to this mess, but Europe (NATO?) needs to take the lead in resolution as their economic well being is at stake.

    The goal of this dispute is to restore the flow of oil and to help the repressed people of Libya assume some sort of democratic control of their own resource instead of having it ‘stolen’ by thugs such as Qaddafi.

    • http://vladenblog.tumblr.com Steve Maley
  • averagevoterdotcom

    then let the tribes sort it out. Oil revenue has a way of making them work it out. Coastal nation. Not like the other two wars we are in. Death for him is long deserved and will serve notice that US justice may be long but will not be denied. A no brainer at this moment of internal rebellion.

    • edintexas

      Or perhaps Kim Sung Il? Mahmoud Armageddonwhackjob and the Ayatollah Cockamamie? I’m sure you can think of a few other tyrants who deserve death and we can send the troops in to those countries as well. Some of them deserve our “justice” even more than this tin pot COL.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    “War is an act of policy” designed to achieve a political objective and therefore “the political object . . . will thus determine both the military objective to be reached and the amount of effort it requires.” (Clausewitz, Ch. 1)

    The key, as Mr. Emanuel pointed out, is the policy objective behind the intervention. My guess is that Mr. Obama has no clear policy objective other than to counter the impression that he was weak and indecisive.

    Without a clear policy objective the intervention is doomed to failure since we cannot construct an accurate military strategy to achieve the undefined objective.

    • davesinsanantonio

      go to waste. It does not matter to them how a crisis is used, only that it is used somehow. They do not have any real long term goals except to increase the power of government and, by extension, their own. They do not care about real world consequences to others, only about their power, although they will try to couch that in “good intentions” rhetoric. The end (power for them over others) justifies the means (lying, cheating, stealing, usurping, destroying, even making stupid decisions!).

  • Michael Dugas

    You have multiple conflicting statements coming from various members of the administration. You have a foreign policy with no direction with everyone from members of the administration to our allies confused about where we stand. It’s a sad joke that has weakened our country immeasurably.
    Now countries that actually need Libya’s oil have gotten us to fund their little conflict, through the U.N., and bear the brunt of a policy that Obama doesn’t even want to claim and that goes against EVERYTHING he ran and and claims to believe. The word hypocrisy doesn’t even come close to being an adequate description of the Obama Administrations actions.
    Now will Republican Leadership use this or continue to duck and run from any fights over anything of significance?

    • edintexas

      Neither the original, created by Mack Sennett for his Keystone Film Company pictures, nor this bunch had anything to do with the Klondike (well, maybe the ice cream bar for this bunch).

      Then again, it is a dastardly slur to equate this bunch with the Keystone Kops – the latter were professionals who were doing exactly that which they intended.

      • Michael Dugas

        who finds this confusion, mixed messages and weakening of our country quite satisfying. The puppets themselves are an insult to the
        “Keystone” Kops (not sure where I got Klondike from) , at least the Kops could follow a script. These Bozo’s screw up their screw ups.

        • Michael Dugas

          of which Klondike Kat was a member, a Mountie I believe. So maybe the description was fitting after all. =)

        • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

          Or Vlad Putin? Or both?

          • Michael Dugas

            Personally I think that Obama is just jealous of dictators like Putin and Chavez and the Castro Brothers. He sees in them the power and control he wishes he had, that he craves. This man, and I use that term loosely to say the least, will be a thorn in the side of, a security risk for and an all around pain in the ass to this country, our country,
            for a long long time.

  • Viator

    Introducing R2P – Aimed at Israel?

    “U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon also said on Thursday that the justification for the use of force was based on humanitarian grounds, and referred to the principle known as Responsibility to Protect (R2P), “a new international security and human rights norm to address the international community’s failure to prevent and stop genocides, war crimes, ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity.”

    “Resolution 1973 affirms, clearly and unequivocally, the international community’s determination to fulfill its responsibility to protect civilians from violence perpetrated upon them by their own government,” he said.

    Inside the NSC, Power, Smith, and McFaul have been trying to figure out how the administration could implement R2P and what doing so would require of the White House going forward. Donilon and McDonough are charged with keeping America’s core national interests more in mind. Obama ultimately sided with Clinton and those pushing R2P — over the objections of Donilon and Gates.”

    http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/03/18/how_obama_turned_on_a_dime_toward_war

    “The always astute Omri Ceren has more regarding the R2P concept over at Commentary Contentions. He notes that there is a bit of history regarding the concept’s application to the Israel-Palestinian conflict. There was a group created in 2009, the International Coalition For The Responsibility To Protect, that has spoken out against Israel, notably during Israel’s Operation Cast Lead in Gaza. The Coalition released this statement:

    The recent escalation of violence in Gaza has raised serious questions about the use of the Responsibility to Protect to urge international action to protect civilians in the conflict. The Responsibility to Protect has been referred to, notably by Richard Falk, UN Special Rapporteur on the Occupied Palestinian Territories, but also others who claim that crimes committed in Gaza by Israeli forces have reached the threshold of R2P crimes.”

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/03/the_rise_of_samantha_power_and.html

    • skorrent1

      Of UN power beyond it’s Charter. Of the dozens (hundreds?) of instances of the use of police/military power to quell internal disturbances within countries around the world (Darfur, Tibet, Colombia, Sri Lunka, West Bank, Mexico, etc., etc.), the UN would love to have the power,and its own military force, to intervene selectively and bring about its own desired outcome. This is the most blatant example. Even Kosovo was a NATO operation under a similarly flimsey pretext. Do we really want a One World Government?

      • edintexas

        There are many, almost exclusively in the ruling class (or wannabe’s), who do.

  • Viator

    http://www.responsibilitytoprotect.org/

    http://responsibilitytoprotect.org/index.php/about-rtop/learn-about-rtop

    http://responsibilitytoprotect.org/index.php/document-archive/listserv

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_federalist_movement

    http://archive1.globalsolutions.org/who/who_home.html

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Citizens_for_Global_Solutions

  • Viator

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R2p

  • Wayne

    of the International Communities having trumped the United States Constitution?

    If R2P is going to take precedence (no pun intended) over a Constitution than an “actual” representative government, then we are in more serious trouble than I thought. The conspiracy theorist are now not seeming so conspiratorial!

    And, if this isn’t a “wake-up” call for the average American, then again, we have reached a point in American history that I refused for many years to believe we could ever be. The idea that “It can’t happen here” is far more difficult to defend now than at any time in recent memory.

    Is there really any need for a house and senate? Other than the dog and pony show it’s deteriorated to over the last 60 years? The Tea Party is having more relevance than ever! Time to turn it up a notch!

    My two cents…

  • Viator

    http://www.fpif.org/articles/ban_ki_moon_and_r2p

    http://www.brookings.edu/press/Books/2008/responsibilitytoprotect.aspx

    Gareth Evans President and Chief Executive, January 2000-2009, International Crisis Group (George Soros who is chairman of the Open Society Institute is on the Board of Trustees)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Crisis_Group

    Gareth Evans and Collegium International

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collegium_International

    Co-chaired by Michel Rocard, former Prime Minister of France, and Milan Kucan, who at the time of the Collegium’s founding was President of the Republic of Slovenia, the group’s members include: former Presidents Fernando Henrique Cardoso of Brazil and Alpha Oumar Konar? of Mali; Ruth Dreifuss, former Federal Counsellor of Switzerland; philosophers Edgar Morin, J?rgen Habermas and Jean-Pierre Dupuy; international law professor Mireille Delmas-Marty; Mary Robinson, former President of Ireland and UN High Commissioner for Human Rights; Nobel Prize winners Joseph Stiglitz and Amartya Sen; as well as former Ambassador of France to the United Nations St?phane Hessel, who was also present at the creation of the United Nations itself, former ambassador of the USA William vanden Heuvel. Its Secretary General is Sacha Goldman, film producer.

  • Marcus_Traianus

    The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.

    No national discussion of consultation with Congress. Weeks of dawdling and no concise explanation of the goals. Just a quick press release from vacation in Rio;

    “Today, I authorized the armed forces of the United States to begin a limited military action in Libya

    Seems like a pretty unilateral declaration and political decision aimed at appealing to the rube neocon war-hawks. Problem is, we understand the Constitution and “national interest” much better than him. I am sure he is puzzled why we are not laying palms at his feet.

    • edintexas

      Sadly, some alleged “Conservatives” are “laying palms”. Some are self proclaimed (a certain South Carolina Senator comes to mind), while others actually have been mostly Conservative in the past.

      What they are not, is they are not Constitutionalists, or well grounded in the Constitution. It isn’t hard to recognize the difference between “Commander in Chief” and “Power to Declare War”, even almost 225 years later.

  • shadowmane

    …but doesn’t the President have certain powers that allows him to begin an attack first, and seek Congressional approval afterwards? Seems I read that somewhere. My whole take on all of this is that if France and the UK wanted to do this, we should have just let them do it, and provided AWACs and other support mechanisms. If the mission is theirs, will always be theirs, and will be abandoned to them in the end, what was the initial purpose of our involvement outside of the feel good, humanitarian “lets save the citizens of Libya” line? In other words… why are we even involved?

    • edintexas

      The President has the power to respond to an attack from another country, and then go to Congress for formal authorization. War can progress far too fast, in the modern world, to allow nothing to be done (with an attack on the US in progress) while the President seeks the authorization from Congress to respond to the attack.

      However, unilaterally (or in concert with “allies”) attacking a sovereign nation without that nation attacking the US, is not covered by “responding to an attack”. It is covered by the Constitution’s provision of power to the Congress to Declare War. As I said above, we seem to ignore the “Declare” part, but prior Congressional approval has been sought, and given, in the past.

  • Marcus_Traianus

    Rebel fighters in Benghazi had now pushed down that highway to the outskirts of the city of Ajdabiya (snip)

    The rebels swept into the nearby oil port of Zwitina, just northeast of the city (snip)

    http://tinyurl.com/4db2txh

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack

      Here is what I would want AQIM to do.

      1) Let the coalition blow some place away, while massing troops and supplies.
      2) Move in like lightning and shoot all serious non-AQIM forces left breathing.
      3) Crank up the loud speakers and announce immediate hard-core shariah in the blessed name of Allah!

      Here is what I would then do myself. Shoot a new video in which I would do the following.

      1) Graciously compliment President Obama for his wisdom of helping Al Qaeda spread goodness and enlightment to troubled souls in troubled times.
      2) Question the wisdom of continued American resistance to AQ in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
      3) Point out the glaring contradictions we see in US motives when we help AQIM in Libya, but still wage war against their just Muslim Brothers in AfPak and Iraq.
      4) Remind him that Even Pres Putin has accused him of waging medeival Crusades against Muslim territories and that by bringing US forces home from the ME, he could forstall all of these nasty insinuations…

  • silkywiley

    At this point I would prefer the fellows behind the counter at the local auto parts house. Obama should continue his world tour and the rest of us should lay low for the next two years and hope that he will quite stepping on it.

    Democrats are so muddled in their thinking about war waging that they haplessly stagger all over the place. They apparently cannot think logically about it.

    Clinton, a good old bubba, who had some fair karma got lucky in Yugoslavia but actually advanced the Islamic cause and the press reported the Serbian atrocities and were deaf and dumb about the Islamist attrocites.

    Now as to his wife Hilary and the good ole’ gals that hold her in such high esteem, perhaps they should all seriously consider baking cookies. Hilary is setting back the cause of serious feminism by decades.

    I’m not a chauvanist (sp?), I love Michelle Bachman, Sarah Palin, Ann Coulter, and all the rest of the moxie, fiesty conservative girls (women?) bet they don’t mind being called girls.

  • irish2dabone

    So while your pondering our Goals in Libya, keep the following in mind…Did you know that between ’07 and ’09 Qaddafi undertook a massive PR Campaign in hiring a Boston Grp (The Monitor Group) to enhance his global profile as being an “intellectual thinker” and all around good guy? The Monitor Grp was founded by some Harvard Professor’s? Check it out for yourself! They called-in Cass Sunstein, George Soros, Richard Pearl, Lord Anthony Gibbons, proclaiming them to be Independent and objective experts. They were to go into Libya to interview Sr/ Officials and eventually write a book. Lord Gibbons was a Prof at the London School of Economics, which BTW is where Soros said he learned all about an “Open Society”… later being its largest contributor and later forming his own OSI group (Open Society Institute)… chk it out while your Googling.Soros informed The London School of Economics that it was ok to accept a $1.5M gift because Qaddafi was seeking to be an “Open Society” ie New World Order… but as part of the gift, they had to admit Safir into the school where he received numerous accolades; however, later exposed in the UK’s Guardian that he had plagiarised his thesis. What’s interesting about the London School of Economics, is that it is the home of the “Fabian Society” (look it up…) and remember George Soros’s ties here.

    So return to the Pan Am plane crash in Lockerbie, Scotland where 270 people were murdered, ordered by Mummar Qaddafi, and within the past year or so the Lockerbie bomber was released for “Compassionate”reasons. around July 20, 2010 Pres Obama held a news conference with UK’s PM denouncing the release. Remember! BO pointed a finger at the UK inferring its ties with BP, this after the BP spill. Think that diverted attention away from our Pres then? Then came the Wikileaks that revealed BO’s secretive plea to release the Lockerbie bomber… yet, nothing was reported on this.
    So after doing “your research” on the above, ask yourself again why our Prez took so long to react to the Libyan crisis and what exactly are the goals of this Administration. One last point… while the WH is not directly tied to the Monitor Grp and the enhancement of Qaddafi’s global profile, I believe Cass Sunstein and George Soros have intimate ties to this WH (one being a Regulatory Czar on a campaign to push for greater gun laws and the other being shown to have the highest # of WH visits in ’10). Go figure… but hey, after sitting in Rev Wrights pews for 20-yr’s citing him as his spiritual leader, our President wasn’t closely tied to him either.

  • Wayne

    That our Presidential hopefuls put more stock in the United States, its Constitution and responsibility to its citizens than the United Nations Security Council. And, that they make that a part of their campaign to get elected. I know that I will be looking for that specific language as part of their policy issues.

    I am so angry over this I could bite a nail in half!!!