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Ohio Issue 2: Let’s not over-react or fall for media templates

Issue 2 in Ohio has failed. Unions poured a gazillion dollars into Ohio and won.  Despite having a sense of this outcome for some time it still stings.  Believe it or not, a great many felt that these reforms were important steps in bring fiscal and structural sanity to government.  The voters clearly did not get that message.

The media is going to try and play this as horse race politics. Governor John Kasich lost and the Democrats won.  And obviously, in some important sense – even if only in the fact the story and perspective being conventional wisdom – this is true. Kasich and Republicans passed this legislation and it has been rejected.  Fair enough.

But I personally believe there is a simpler explanation.  Voters like their local cops, firefighters, nurses and teachers.  In many ways, they idealize these type of positions even if they don’t like the state of education or public safety, etc.  Thus opponents of reform had a very easy and emotionally effective message: Senate Bill 5 is an attack on the “everyday heroes” who protect our communities.  It doesn’t really matter if this was true or not.  In a 30 second ad it is easy to say and makes an emotional connection. This is a huge advantage in a statewide ballot issue.

Combine this with the huge financial advantage the opponents had (unions could take dues from union members regardless of their political beliefs and spend it on this election) and you have an uphill battle for supporters (and of course there is a minority of voters – public sector and labor unions – who are simply voting their self-interest).  All they had to do was blanket the state with pictures of police and firefighters opposed to the issue and the lasting impression is that the bill is an attack on the people we value the most in our communities.

We can debate the wisdom of keeping fire and saftey forces in the bill (and the larger strategy & process) later. But what I want to note tonight is that this is not an ideological victory in my mind.  I don’t believe voters saw this as a smaller or larger government debate. Nor was it about lowering or raising taxes. It was about not attacking public safety. It was about a simple but effective message with overwhelming financial superiority. The nature of modern elections means this was not an upset but par for the course given the nature of popular ballot issues.

Is Kasich unpopular? Sure, the economy sucks and doesn’t look good any time soon. People tend to blame people at the top.  Kasich didn’t have any real political capital left to win on this issue. But that doesn’t mean Kasich is suddenly a defeated governor.  He is going to ultimately be judged on the success of his policies in the medium to long term. He passed a budget that puts Ohio on a path to success. He is fundamentally redefining economic development in this state and he is selling Ohio like mad. If the Ohio economy gets better and the policies he has implemented begin to bear fruit he will be just fine.

And this is not the sign of GOP over-reach either.  If this was such an ideological turning of the tide that how to explain the passage of Issue 3 – a clear repudiation of health care mandates?  If Ohio voters suddenly turned to the left that win seems to make little sense. I think it is much easier to see this as another reflection of message and popular sentiment. People saw health care mandates as threat to their care and likely to raise costs.  They rejected the idea. Exactly how is this going to help Democrats (or the president for example) in Ohio?

If Democrats think the ground has shifted significantly I think they are getting carried away.  Unions felt their backs were up against the wall and they leveraged their financial advantage to great effect. They rallied the troops and used their message, however deceptive, to great effect. This is a big win.  I get that.

But off-year ballot issues of this nature do not mean fundamental change.  As I said on twitter, “If you have an emotionally effective message, and can spend five times as much, you have a good chance of winning ballot issues.” This is not sea change in political philosophy or a rejection of the party in power (neither party are particularly popular when it comes right down to it).

So ignore the union gloating and the media stories about how independents reject extremism and over-reach.  Instead, conservatives need to find ways to better communicate their ideas and continue to build the institutions and organizations that can move their ideas and policies forward.  Fiscal reality is not going to change. The nature of what government can and can’t accomplish given its nature and this fiscal reality isn’t going to magically change because of this vote.

Conservatives took one on the chin, yes, but the larger war is far from clear.  There are even bigger battles that lie ahead. Let’s get ready.

COMMENTS

  • annas

    In Ohio. I guess this says that Americans just don’t get the message about how bad unions, Democrats, and Obama are for this country. They want to vote in things for themselves that there is no money for which to pay the bill! I guess we have gone too far with the nanny state to reclaim our country. I think you will see more talk about states seceding as we go forward. If there is no good reason or benefit to a United States, we may end up with redstates and blue states.

    • florajo

      I don’t think many actual Middle Class workers agree with our anti-union rhetoric. They may tolerate the reasoning intellectually, but not in their gut. You can’t slice up good workers and bad workers like we do and not lose people along the way.

      If I agree that this guy’s ok but that guy is a slacker then who knows when I’m on the chopping block.

      • Adjoran

        because they cannot afford to pay them and their luxury benefits.

      • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

        is a broken union

        • izoneguy

          Probably 10% to start with a hiring freeze….
          Of course the union shlubs will slow down
          and not work as hard….

          What your house is on fire? OK we will get there
          in about an hour…..

          • carolina

            revenue vs expense issues. Each community will learn the hard way how much more they will get to pay to keep their ‘beloved’ public ‘servants’ happy. This was just the first round in the public education process.

            I applaud the 3 largest newspapers for supporting SB5. They will have to continue to educate the public one editorial at a time.

      • goformitt

        This is exactly the type of tone deaf rhetoric that will ensure our defeat for years and tears to come. What the he** is wrong with supporting the people that actually work their *SS off every day?

        Once again, I’ll point to the most recent polls – the country is starting to see us (Republicans) as heartless, greedy and selfish. We ignore this trend at our own peril.

        Here in Iowa, a very heavily funded race that drew hundreds of thousands from out-of-state organizations resulted in a HUGE victory for the moderate candidate (Liz Mathus). The main issue was gay marriage. Another non-issue that far-right republicans just can’t let go of.

        Lets get real folks – quit chasing the extremist vote. We’re loosing our viability as a party and giving Ron Paul’s Independent run a real boost.

        • lucasblack

          Society’s view on gay marriage has evolved so quickly. I wish this was one that the GOP would stop pushing for. It’s really only going to be of political value in GOP primaries.

        • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

          That is the sure fire way to be in the minority for another forty years.

          For decades I watched a republican party afraid of being called names, afraid of standing up for waht is right. Going along with the Democrats and apeing their class warfare rhetoric. And they got defeated all of the time.

          It is only when conservatives decided to be real conservatives, to speak out boldly, to condemn people who were public leeches, It was only then that republicans began winning elections.

          Here is a truth that you ought to learn: THE DEMOCRATS AND THE MEDIA ARE GOING TO CALL YOU NAMES AND PAINT YOU AS HEARTLESS NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!!

        • renl57

          I remember the 1980 campaign. Back then, the GOP reached out to blue-collar workers (even though half of them were union members). Many of the “Reagan Democrats” were union members.

          Not since the 1940s has the GOP been this much against organized labor per se.

          We have a real problem with public employee unions, but it’s NOT the union *members* who are the problem. It’s simply an inherent tension between the desire of public employee unions to make things better for their members and we taxpayers who will have to pay for it all.

          I am certainly for “right to work” laws. But if in a state with such a law, workers still want to organize themselves into a union, I have no problem with that.

          • Spartan4Life

            You people all make it sound like the public sector unions and private sector unions are the same thing. I think the GOP inability to make this distinction is what is losing them this issue. Private sector union members get hurt by overly powerful public sector unions the same way the rest of us do. I think you could frame the issue in such a way as to not make unionism the issue but public sector unions the issue.

            What is disappointing is that we have created an environment where people seem willing to vote for their own financial ruin. We have seen it in Greece and California and now Ohio. I think the assumption is that at some point the Obamas will come in and bail them out by “taxing the rich”. That is why I favor a Constitutional amendment to prohibit state bailouts.

    • retire05

      are a bunch of states going bankrupt because they can’t afford to keep the promises they made to the public sector unions.

      So they will tax the guy making $50K/yr to pay for the public sector worker who thinks he deserves $80K/yr plus a tony retirement. Eventually, the $50K worker will realize he can move out of that state and earn just as much in another state where his tax liablity is not as great, allowing him to keep more of his earnings. When states start losing non-public sector workers who fund the public sector workers, there will be massive cuts in services and public sector labor force.

      What these public sector unions are doing is writing the death certificate for the states they push in. Sooner or later, the cancer will kill the host. And when they do, those states will be looking to the federal goverment, via taxpayer dollars, to bail them out.

      That is when the the real war begins. People in Texas, Louisiana, Wyoming and North Dakota are not going to want to be taxed to pay for public service workers in Ohio, Illinois, New York and Michigan.

      There is no happy ending to this.

      • florajo

        Perhaps the $50K worker is stupider than the $80K worker–for giving up $30K a year, if he is even qualified for the better job. Presumably no birth or class segregation prevents this worker from going for the better job. So, is he too stupid? To ideologically principled to be a union hack? Are we punishing people for taking the better job? It feels anti worker.

        • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

          Hey, why not just join organized crime? I here they make a lot of money too?

          I know, why don’t we all just become government workers? Then we can all have job security!

    • SoFiMil

      I want more of this and will take the good with the bad. Let’s send to the voters of states other high impact legislation.

      • Fr_Martin_Fox

        Then the legislature will be off the hook for any hard votes, because they’ll shunt them to the ballot. The electoral consequences of casting such votes are what defeat leftie legislators; so fewer hard votes mean the legislature will have more lefties.

        Hypothetical? It’s what happened to California with its incessant ballot-legislating.

        In fact, why have a legislature at all? We can put everything on the ballot!

        Fact is, referenda are a terrible so-called reform. Make the legislators vote and hold them accountable. If you don’t have the juice to hold legislators accountable, you don’t have the juice to get a ballot initiative passed. Going for the ballot measure is a trick play that is poor strategy.

    • pm9262

      Enough foolish talk about secession, red states, blue states, etc. It’ll never happen. You may or may not agree with my views, and I may or may not agree to your views, but that’s part of the greatness of this country. For the (approximately) 237 years of this country’s history, we’ve been able to for the most part agree to disagree – and did alright. The one time it didn’t work out that way, we had this thing called the Civil War (some call it the War of Northern Agression), a conflict which killed more Americans than did any other war. You are surely not suggesting we go back to that, are you?

      • gunslingr45

        on what you are saying. Should I just sit by and let this country become another USSR? We see how well that worked out with the government in charge of everything.
        Funny thing is with Marx and Hitler alike, unions were the FIRST thing to go right after the free press.
        And what do I do with that pesky oath I took to defend this country from all enemies foreign and domestic?
        Any soldier will tell you they hope it never comes to that but we are still loyal to our country.

        “For those who have fought for it, Freedom has a taste the protected will never know.”
        IN GOD WE TRUST

    • Fr_Martin_Fox

      The stupid Republicans never listen. This was easy to foresee.

      What should the GOP have done?

      They should have focused on union dues. What fueled this onslaught? Forced dues. What was the union’s pitch? How this would cost jobs and lead to houses burning down and people dying.

      Hard to make that argument when all you are doing is taking away union bosses’ forced-dues power.

      You do that, then you can address the other issues.

      Stupid GOP doesn’t like advancing Right to Work. Why not? Oh, because it’ll get the unions all fired up. So they tried this instead. Worked like a charm.

      Second problem here was there is no evidence, I can see, that the backers of S.B. 5 had a plan for this. They got their bill passed and signed and were finished. Stupid! How could they not know the unions would file for a referendum? And do just what they did?

      When they planned for passing their bill, they should have planned right through the referendum fight. Why didn’t they?

      Third: where was Kasich laying out, before the vote, the consequences of repeal? Why not come out and say, here are the projected shortfalls, layoffs, etc.?

      • Martin Knight

        … so they decided to just grab their ankles and hope the Democrats and their union buddies would use the jar of Vaseline they so helpfully brought to the event.

    • mirac777

      Kasich announces the layoffs of 10,000 Union slugs due to state law that mandates a balanced budget be passed. It will either be that or no snow removal services in 2012.

  • popdaddy

    Well, you know, that vote is a problem for Ohio taxpayers to be burdened with until Ohio wants to join the list of blue states thinking the Federal government will bail them out.

    As long as we focus on local Senate and House races in 2012 and beyond, we can tell these states to suck it up and suffer their ignorance.

    Much better results on telling Obamacare advocates to stick it. Curious mix but at least America wins out beating socialized medicene!

    • pm9262

      It’s called Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA.

    • writescribe

      In light of Medicare, Medicaid, VA and the Affordable Care Act, exactly how is American winning, popdaddy? Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for cheering on the team and boosting morale, but it shouldn’t be done at the expense of throwing all objectivity out the window.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    who are robbing you blind and bankrupting your state. Oh well, you get what you pay for.

  • texas214

    it is your future. Good luck and God Bless.

    • izoneguy

      And be President of the Red States – Obama can keep the blue states.
      Game On.

      • iidvbii

        Bring back the republic and let’s go it on our own. Cotton, cattle, natural gas and gasoline for sale who’s interested…..LOL

        • goformitt

          Who do you think you could sell any of that to with out the federal welfare that supports it? Try selling cotton on the world market at the actual production costs – you’ll be bankrupt in a month.

          • acat

            without the EPA, FDA, and other ABC agencies poking their noses in where they aren’t needed….

            Let’s see any of the 49 remaining States compete then, eh?

            Mew

          • iidvbii

            Hey genius, why do you think they are trying to build more pipelines from Canada to Texas? Give up? We have the vast majority of the refining capabilities. Notice how I said “gasoline” and not oil? Think about that when your at your local gas pump tomorrow. Another fine gallon brought to you by the hard working folks in Texas. Yeah I don’t think we will have any problem selling our wares. In fact I bet your friends and neighbors will be first in line… You know it and so do I.

            While we are on the subject of Texas I have had just about enough of twits like you feeling like they need to tear down Texas to support Romney. Ever wonder why you need to insult the entire population of the second most populas state in the union? Wonder why Romney does it? Because like Obama Romney’s record and back ground is crap. Otherwise Yall could be bragging about him and what he has done. Instead you have to try and tear down the one bright spot in the US economy. Must really stink to be so insecure and bereft of accomplishment that your whole campaign is “your jobs suck, your schools suck, you have illegals” very inspiring. Of course yall don’t have under performing schools or illegals up in your socialist paradise do you? You certainly don’t have any jobs…..

          • ohiohistorian

            Despite what you think, the US is an IMPORTER of refined pertoleum. We are in the range of 500-1500 bbl/day of gasoline imports. I think that the pipeline is important to get us off from the tankers, which are an environmental hazard, to a pipeline, less of a hazard.

          • johninohio

            “Onus” means an obligation, duty or burden. Probably, what he meant to say was “impetus”, which means driving force or incentive. Or possibly “foundation”.

  • Jack_Savage

    Because they are now residents of North Carolina and are busy turning Wake County into a frigging sewer hole, without the slightest thought as to why they hauled ass in the first place.

    • txpat

      In Texas.
      I see so many Yankee plates in our state, and thinking they bring the liberal garbage with them.
      Geez I think don’t go trying to turn my state into the cesspool you left from.

      • iidvbii

        Liberals are just like the Muslims in the regard that they flee their debt ridden cesspools. Migrate to places that have worked under the very opposite ideological premises from their own and are therefore successful. No sooner than they unpack their boxes they set about trying to turn the place into the very same hellhole they just fled. Like freaking locusts, wholesale destruction where ever they go.

        • uselogic

          My native state of Florida is sinking under their weight. Even the democrats used to be fairly fiscally conservative here. Now, it’s gimme, gimme, gimme with all the manners of Atilla.

  • winslow

    You have voted yourselves into the poor house.
    You union members are unwilling to pay for YOUR OWN HEALTH CARE or pay into YOUR OWN PENSIONS?
    And yet YOU expect your neighbor who is out of his or her job to go on paying higher taxes from which your salaries are paid?
    Selfish SOB’s beyond belief.
    When you are laid off and out of a job you may rethink your stupidity.
    You are sheep.
    Instead of thanking your neighbors for your existence, you have slapped them in their faces.
    Hope you reap what you have sown.

    • iidvbii

      Stay the HELL out of Texas. We don’t want your union crap here.

      • goformitt

        The illegal aliens are working out better for ya?

        • gekster

          It really doesn’t seam you do.
          How can you take what he said as prefering illigals to union scum.

        • iidvbii

          That is why I won’t be voting for Mitt “I’ll have taxpayers provide you with health insurance” Romney. Just imagine how many we would have with tards like you and switch hit Mitt incharge…

  • dajeeps

    If the citizens of Ohio want to be looted by state employees unions, that’s what they get to deal with, and I will be sure to look elsewhere for a place to relocate. But at least they voted to tell Uncle Sam to butt out, which is a a far larger win on philosophical grounds. The Ohio legislature now has no excuse to not nullify that healthcare monstrosity and their governor has all the ammo he needs now to enforce a nullification as needed.

  • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

    The take home message is that numbers and logic are not enough, you need to gain the moral upper ground as well. And rightly or wrongly, the left prevailed at that level.

    So it wasn’t a vote against fiscal responsibility per se, but voters saying that they put a value on public safety workers that was greater than the benefits of SB2. That’s the message that they bought, any way, so there’s a lesson there for the next round – because there will be a next round.

    • golfermike

      I agree they lost the narrative. The ORP and the NRP should have seen this coming just by how quickly the petitions to put the issue on the ballot were turned in. We lost the narrative from the get go, and there isn’t any making that up.

      The reality of repealing SB5 is that local communities will have no choice but to try to raise taxes through levies or to lay teachers, police and firefighters off. With tax rates already high, I suspect most tax levies that increase taxes will fail.

      Basically, the people of Ohio fell for a straw dog that pulled at their heartstrings and, without thinking of the consequences, manged to screw themselves. As soon as possible, I am outta here.

      • renl57

        So far, in this discussion, we’ve seen comments like

        – Union workers “are robbing you blind”

        – “Union scum”

        Most public-employees–first responders, teachers, etc.–are NOT robbers and they are NOT scum.

        They go to work and work 5 full days a week just like you or I.

        You need to stop making this personal, as if you despise the public employees. Because that message was rejected overwhelmingly in Ohio, and it’s going to be rejected everywhere else.

        It’s only an intellectual question about the monopolistic economic power of a union in a state without right-to-work laws.

  • winslow

    At least Obama Care was voted down.
    So the voters were half bright.

    • nathanalbright

      That’s my name, after all xD.

  • florajo

    Yes, this makes sense intellectually, and is the correct answer, but politically it plays a bit differently. We are putting down police officers and firemen. We are elevating private sector workers who may not be on our side. Simply based on who signs their paychecks.

    I agree with you, and still think it’s shaky politics.

    • gekster

      I don’t think I understand your post.
      Not picking just asking.

    • miconservative

      Need to be careful on how you play the politics to achieve the goal. All out frontal assaults on cops and firefighters can backfire.

      • JSobieski

        How we play politics matters. Look at the pro-life initiative in Mississippi, the most prolife state in the country. If we aren’t smart about what we do, we will lose.

        Principled conservatism + sound strategy/tactics = victory

        Snyder did more with less and causing the least stir imaginable. I must admit that I am very pleasantly surprised by Snyder who pretty much ran a stealth issues-free campaign (an approach I don’t generally agree with).

      • goformitt

        You mean a full assault on police and firefighters isn’t a good idea? Geez, who woulda thought?

        Maybe we should save our wrath for the road crews, the iron workers, the auto laborers – you know – the worthless scum who are trying to steal from us every day while they sit their fat ass*s in air conditioned offices picking their nose all day.

        Yea, I think thats the ticket – lets attack them. They are the enemy right? I mean, can’t we get our friends to the south to do the same work for less? Like minimum wage or even less?

        I think thats all a great political position to take, but lets make sure we throw in blind protection of the super wealthy while we are at it, OK?

        Thats the real winning ticket!

        • gekster

          What local park are you trashing..

        • JSobieski

          They don’t work for monopolies. Even GM can’t avoid competing indefinitely

          • florajo

            Public sector unions aren’t exactly employed by monopolies, since the work would not be performed by any company whatsoever if not handled by the commons (the guvmint). It’s unprofitable to run a police department. Private won’t do it. It’s not a monopoly in the traditional sense when the government does it. (And we shouldn’t be surprised that it’s a drain on taxpayer dollars.)

          • Martin Knight

            What makes this pernicious is that it’s an avenue for corruption.

            They collect dues and then turn around and use those dues to get candidates who offer them more goodies elected. The public union-bought pols then vote to give them more taxpayer money, which they then use to get even more candidates elected, who will then give them more taxpayer money … and so on it goes.

            In other words, they’re on both sides of the negotiating table. Who gets the shaft? The taxpayer.

            Union negotiations in the private sector are a different beast altogether. It’s a proper negotiation, not a collusion, because the two sides are represented.

          • renl57

            Again, you’re singling out the public employee unions as if corruption is a consequence of them.

            It’s not.
            It’s a consequence of a mixed economy where politicians a) dole out favors and b) need lots of money to get re-elected.

            Anybody can play.

            We’ve seen corporations donate money to politicians to get favors in return.

            Unions do it.

            Special interest groups (environmentalists, activists on both sides of the abortion issue) do it.

            Fighting corruption isn’t a call for sticking it to public-employee unions.

            It’s a call for limiting government’s ability to hand out favors (which will result also in politicians’ campaign war chests getting smaller).

          • Martin Knight

            Because you’re dodging the issue … public sector unions get to have people on both sides of the negotiating table, and it’s completely legal. In the case of corporation, if you can prove a quid pro quo, you can get people thrown in jail. The result is governments going bankrupt.

            Here’s another thing, why should anyone be forced to join a private organization (a union) in order to have a public job?

            Until Obamacare, no corporation was ever guaranteed customers whether the customer liked it or not. In non-right-to-work states, unions have that privilege.

            I don’t think that’s right. YMMV.

          • JSobieski

            Private entities can be (and should be) allowed to expire when they are inefficient users of capital.

        • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

          He of the UAW bailout proposals last time. You know, the ones Obama ended up actually doing.

          • renl57

            Getting sympathetic politicians elected to Congress is what this is all about. A special interest contributes to their political campaigns, they use that money to get elected, and they never forget who their friends are.

            And as I said, anybody can play.

            http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/index.php

            But you can be in favor of right-to-work laws, you can even be against public-employee unions, without damning the workers themselves as somehow corrupt, worthless, lazy, or destructive of the economy. They’re not.

            The cops that have to deal with these OWS loons don’t like them anymore than you or I do. There aren’t a lot of bleeding-heart cops.

            Yet you prefer to treat these men as some kind of political enemy because their unions support the Dem Party. I don’t remember this being a big complaint in the days after 9-11, when 240 unionized firefighters were incinerated.

            Here are some of the “public employee robbing scum” you have such problems with:

            http://www.fdnylodd.com/9-11-Never-Forget/Memorials/343-Firefighters.html

            http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/home/memorial_911.shtml

  • annas

    I will continue with my “”anti-union” rhetoric! Unions are a blight on this country! They do nothing but bleed the “middle class” you cry for dry to pay for union bosses and Democrat donations!

    • miconservative

      I agree that unions are a problem, but here in the Midwest their members are seen as the middle class and an assault on unions as an assault on the middle class. There are other ways to reach the same end without going on a direct frontal assault that makes sense to voters. I know you want to do direct battle and kill them, but in this part of the country that can be a suicide pact instead.

      • florajo

        Yes. This is about as good a summary as I’ve seen. Most people I know hear our “union attack” and think that we are upset about the individual policemen, firemen, and electrical workers. Sure, they’re misunderstanding the message, but I often have difficulty explaining the fine distinction. Perhaps others have noticed this.

  • miconservative

    Should have gone the route of Gov. Snyder in Michigan. Not a direct assault on collective bargaining rights. Instead he passed an emergency manager law that allows the Governor to put in place an emergency manager in communities that cannot pay their bills. This bill gives near dicatatorial powers to the emergency manager to break union contracts and forces the unions to bargain in good faith or face the wrath of an emergency manager. He also passed an 80-20 bill that forces teachers and other public employees to pay at least 20% of their health care costs. Not a direct assault on unions (and the people the represent) but more an attack on overspending. It has worked here in Michigan. Also looks like our one State Rep who was facing a recall over this issue will survive (barely, but in a suburb of Flint where the teachers spent countless money trying to beat him.

    The overwhelming passage of the anti-Obamacare referendum in Ohio does show we can still win. Not good news for Mitt Romney as it shows Ohio would reject the key aspect of his Mass health care reform.

    Good news on VA Senate also. Split decision but not a bad night.

    • gekster

      I remember the people on the street corners trying to get a recall petition signed.
      I would allways yell out, “Why don’t you recall Obama, he’s the one who is destroying the country”.
      I would only get blank stares. They didn’t have a clue.
      The thing about Paul Scott, he is a Republican, a conservative who votes that way, and they want to recall him because he didn’t vote the liberal way on certain issues that passed in the legislature.
      He is the only one up for a recall.
      Why pick on him, when what he voted on was also voted the same way by other representatives, Republicans and Democrats.
      What makes him so bad that he is the only one in the Michigan legislature to face a recall election.
      Which by the way, is money spent that we don’t have.
      What makes him the only one to get picked on.
      Well suprise suprise.
      He is conservative.
      He is a Republican.
      And here is the problem folks.
      He is an American of African descent.
      He left the plantation, and the Dem idiots in Michigan can’t have that.
      He is my Representative.
      I voted for him in the last election.
      He did what he said he would do.
      And like little babys throwing a fit, they don’t like it.
      Well, to bad. Elections have consequences.
      I hope he beats this stupid recall.

      I havn’t found the election results, but when I do, I will post them.

    • carolina

      and I think he is smart to attack the problem one community at a time.
      However, each state constitution is different, so Kasich may have not have had that option.
      I agree with the analysts that say that OH should have not included the fire fighters & police. (save them for later)
      So, now, OH residents will get to ‘learn’ one tax hike (or service cut) at a time.

  • gator_hoo

    It still feels weird to say that.

    • iidvbii

      Alot of progresses has been made in a relatively short time. Let’s not loose sight of that. One battle lost but a whole war left to fight.

  • http://www.skiloveland.com skicougar

    Unfortunately, every odd year election, whoever spends the most locally; seems to get what they want.

    The whole city of Houston is now paying for light rail because the light rail election was an odd year and areas of Houston that would’ve defeated it showed up at less than 10% off a presidential election year.

    Tonight, at 6pm; I walked in an out with more voting booths than people waiting to use them.

    I suspect it was the same in Ohio, except for areas that unions were populated by. I suspect those groups got every union member, their family, their friends and neighbors to go to the polls and they bought, er; won it.

  • PaladinLostHour

    ?When you get beat, you have to admit it, and you have to congratulate and shake the hand of the folks who prevailed,? Kasich said. ?It?s clear that the people have spoken.?

    ?I?ve heard their voices,? Kasich assured the press. ?As a result of that, it requires me to take a deep breath and to spend some time reflecting on what happened here.?

    The people of Ohio have shown themselves to be shortsighted fools without the fiscal competence to assure themselves any shot at a successful future. And now comes the Kasich, content to be Lord of the Idiots. Or, if you prefer, yet another empty suit Republican, content to choose convenience over leadership, and mouth emptier platitudes: ‘the people have spoken’. Well, John, here’s a bit of wisdom for you, courtesy of Men in Black:

    “Agent J: People are smart, they can handle it.
    Agent K: “A *person* is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it.”

    • miconservative

      and the people slapped him down. I thought we agreed with that concept. Please look at my post above on how Gov. Snyder achieved the same thing in Michigan in a manner that wasn’t a direct frontal assault. We saw in Ohio what a direct frontal assault will bring in this part of the country. We need to be smart about it.

      • JSobieski

        OH voted overwhelmingly on this. Kasich needs to acknowledge the will of the people (at least for a while) and act accordingly.

  • Stinger808

    have said that 2+2= 5, despite all evidence to the contrary.

    They are within their rights to do so, but it doesn’t change the fiscal facts of the Buckeye state.

    Enjoy the tax hikes and spending cuts to come.

    And I hope Kasich sticks to his guns on no state bailouts for municipalities.

  • annas

    I live in Texas-a right to work state. I will match our economy with yours.

    • goformitt

      Take away your oil, natural gas and hundreds of thousands of illegal workers an see how your economy stacks up.

      • gekster

        But it has been redacted.
        It is be nice to idiots week.

        • acat

          And I would like to see how candi-bot’s State would fare without gasoline and other petrochemical products from Texas oil wells, and electricity and heat from Texas natural gas fields, not to mention Levis from Texas cotton. We’ll assume a vegan, so no need for Texas beef.

          (although I gotta say I prefer Alabama’s approach to barbecue…)

          Mew

          • goformitt

            You’ll see that the original poster was bragging about Texas’s ability to go it alone. I wasn’t bragging about any other states ability to do so.

            The idea that any one state could get along without the others is laughable. The heavily subsidized cotton, the heavily subsidized corn for cattle feed are two easy examples.

            Texas would have neither if we didn’t have federal price supports that funnel my tax dollars into Texas cattle and cotton.

            I expected a more informed response from you.

          • gekster

            With out the huge amount of money paid to the feds, there would be no need for the subsidies you mention.
            Think it through before you post.
            Wait, you have shown you don’t do that.
            Never mind.

          • goformitt

            When foreign forced invade, let ‘em defend themselves. See how that works as a political platform.

            Think it through before you post.

          • acat

            I mean, it’s only been posted about since before Perry got in…

            They already are defending themselves.

            Mew

          • goformitt

            And I hope you have some idea just how stupid that was? I mean, sure, for TV – looks great. Have you been along the Texas border? It is kinda long.

            How about going after employers who hire illegals? Easiest and surest way to combat the problem. He didn’t do it. Thats all I need to know.

          • acat

            “I’ve put guns on the border” Perry?

            You are making a very non-serious argument here….

            Mew

          • gator_hoo

            having a complete monopoly on federal subsidies and all, I mean all the ethanol subsidies we get… umm, wait, that’s not right, I mean, think of how much money we got directly from the government in the bank bailouts… oh wait, no…. the car company bailouts… oh, wait, not ours either, umm… the permitorium on drilling!, oh wait, not a handout…

          • pttx333

            even begin to describe how many car dealerships were shut down in Texas because they weren’t the “favored” ones as so ordered by His Royal Patoot! Texas was punished severely because we didn’t vote for the … dare I say it … b*stard. There ya go, done deal.

          • acat

            You’d understand that Texas is one of the States that *could* go it alone.

            All those subsidies are, as gekster pointed out, in part due to all the added (governmental) costs. As I said. EPA adds cost. Not just cost in “It must be done this way”, but also in “And forms must be filed regularly showing that it’s still done this way and all staff must be trained in how to do it this way even if it’s not their jobs…”

            Government does not produce value, it can only take away value produced by others. Reductions in government result in increases in value available to the private sector. This is not rocket science.

            Mew

          • gator_hoo

            I agree with your point in general, acat, which happens a lot. Here I am going to differ slightly. I think government, when it does what it is supposed to do, adds value, by creating a consensus and order. If a road needs to get built, I think the government adds value by establishing a type of communal consensus where the roads are most useful, and if people disagree, they get to choose a different government. Establishing order through a military, which should be a government, not a private function, has value.

            However, with the size and bloat of this government, yes, THIS government does not produce value.

          • nathanalbright

            Indeed, government as an institution has the responsibility for acts done in the common defense, fair enforcement of law and order, and the establishment and upholding of justice. The problem is when government goes beyond its proper boundaries and starts trying to do the jobs of other institutions like families, voluntary associations, churches, and so on.

          • gator_hoo

            I am guessing that a cat is not an anarchist, and agrees that government has a legitimate role. My point is more that, when fulfilling it’s role, there actually is value. The value is in establishing a consensus. It’s almost like a retail shop, which doesn’t produce anything, but has value in that you don’t have to go to the cattle farmer to buy milk, the chicken farmer to buy eggs, the wheat farmer to but flour, etc. Likewise, with government, you don’t have to fight over where every road goes, how much money should go to defense, what the rules of commerce are, etc. because the government acts as a proxy consensus.

          • nathanalbright

            …but I would argue that the role of government gives some idea as to its value. The defense of a country and the defense of law provide a value by protecting against fraud (thus allow customers some confidence that businesses are providing the goods and services agreed upon), and also allowing the opportunity for workers to gain a fair wage and not be exploited. Again, government need not be a big nanny state to fulfill its job, and the more just the people at large, the less government needs to do, because the less enforcement is necessary. If you want a limited and just government, you need a law-abiding and godly people.

          • acat

            I am not an anarchist. I am, however, a libertarian-leaning small-government conservative.

            I agree that government has a purpose, but I see it as much more of a necessary evil than a neutral thing.

            I take the position that decisions should be made at the lowest level of government possible. i.e. the local school board should set the curriculum and control tax rates to pay for schools. The local fire protection district should set taxes, hire firemen, etc.

            The role of the Federal government should be limited to its’ constitutional functions – defend the borders, decide disputes between States as needed, print money, etc. The constitution does not speak to abortion, marriage, fuel economy, air quality, work rules for train crews, etc., so .. these need to be State or private sector issues.

            I probably want to move much further away from a strong central government than many here .. but since we generally agree that some movement is good, I am happy deferring the discussion of “how far” until we’ve gotten things moving.

            Mew

        • goformitt

          Thanks. I was going to say something critical of you too but saw it was be nice to simpletons week.

          (Here is were you threaten me with your subtle “prison guard” mentality.)

          • gekster

            Being nice to simpletons week was last week.
            I was honered for a week to myself.
            This week is be kind to idiots week.
            You are on the platform. ;)

          • goformitt

            Well it is good to know a discussion about the fate of our nation can be so easily reduced to name calling.

            And here I was actually worried about what the he** is going on in our country.

            Silly me.

          • acat

            Whichever one wins?

            Good to know.

            Mew

          • goformitt

            If Cain or Perry were to win, I would vote for Ron Paul or write in Huntsman.

            I won’t vote for someone I now believe is guilty of sexual assault, and I won’t vote for a GW Bush Lite with an apparent drinking problem.

          • acat

            Now it makes sense.

            Mew

          • goformitt

            If name calling makes you feel better.

            So lets see, I guess I’ll call you something reminiscent of sexual assault or public intoxication. … Hmm have to think about that. But time well spent I’m sure.

            Certainly advances our cause.

          • acat

            Since your cause is to nominate a guy who couldn’t get re-elected… your time would be better spent insulting me.

            Go ahead.

            Mew

  • goformitt

    Obama can’t win without Ohio. This Dem win unnerves me. I have no time for whistling past the cemetery. This is bad news. Our message is falling flat.

    We were all riding high after the tea-party movement got some traction. But now its starting to look like we are failing.

    Time to get tough – rethink the extremist strategy that has pushed the current crop of candidates to the far right.

    Here are a few tips:

    1.) Middle class America is NOT our enemy.

    2.) There is a disturbing disparity in wealth in our country.

    3.) Being kind is not a weakness

    4.) Hate speech is not leadership

    5.) Science is not scarey.

    6.) What people do in their own dam*n bedrooms is not governments business

    7.) There IS a separation of church and state – its a good thing for religion just as it is for the state. Don’t crucify me because I’m Mormon – or Muslim – or Buddhist.

    8.) Wealth is not a hero’s life goal

    9.) Love thy neighbor

    • Bill S

      Leftist talking point machine, are we? I think maybe your username is wrong – goforbarack is more like it.

      I think you need to go find another site.

      • goformitt

        That is exactly the mentality I’m talking about. We are all aboard a sinking ship, and any one who suggests we recheck our ships course is shot down.

        Don’t take my word for it. Check the polls, check todays votes. Houston – we have a problem. And your suggesting what – full steam ahead?

        Congratulations.

        • Bill S

          But a Mitt Romney fan probably doesn’t understand that, what with supporting a human weather vane for a candidate and all.

          • goformitt

            Look at how so many Perry supporters are all the sudden OK with illegal immigrants. Or Cain supporters like Hannity, Limbaugh et al who think maybe sexual assault might be OK after all. We all have our flip-floppers and shape shifters.

            I don’t care about too much of that, I just want to know if a Democrat or a Republican is going to be in charge of our economy come next year.

            Looks like many hear are OK with Obama running things for another 4 years.

          • acat

            Mitt’s a born tinkerer. He’ll try to fix Obamacare. He’ll try to “streamline” Sarbannes-Oxley. He’ll try to “improve” HIPPA.

            He’s not about to tackle the real problem of reducing government since, to Mitt Romney, Government Isn’t The Problem.

            And that’s the problem with Mitt.

            Mew

          • goformitt

            I think anyone who thinks the president can “fix” the economy is delusional. All available evidence indicates that short term stimulus followed by long term reigning in the deficit would be the best way to deal with the economical slump.

            All these silly tax plans are nothing more than simplistic populist politicking.

            Mitt understands this and so doesn’t want to go out on an unproductive populist limb just to win the support of the marginally important far-right.

            The tea-party’s days in the sun have come and gone.

          • acat

            Revenue isn’t the problem, spending is.

            Romney didn’t fix spending in Massachusetts, he cut it to the point that he couldn’t get re-elected, while compromising with Libs every step of the way. Massachusetts is now in worse shape than when Romney was elected.

            I do not think I want to repeat that at a national level.

            Yes, the President does not, by himself, “fix” the economy – but he or she does have a great deal of influence, both through working with Congress and directly via departmental mandates and executive orders.

            The problem, as boiled down by Ace of Spades is that we need to move away from the Blue State model, that is, we need *less* big government.

            Cain knows this, as a businessman he’s seen the problems with what Reagan called “red tape”, and how over-regulation is strangling growth, especially in small businesses.

            Perry knows this, he’s been fighting the Feds as Lieutenant Governor and Governor of Texas for over a decade.

            Mitt, though, is the posterboy for big government. Sure, he made Massachusetts run better, more efficiently, but he never moved it to a sustainable model.

            He’s wrong.

            Mew

            p.s. you’re right about the Tea Party. Their banner has been largely co-opted by various SIVV groups and Ron Paul, but the anger that drove the 2010 tsunami is still present; if you’re not seeing it, something’s wrong with your vision.

          • thescreaminghead

            You can’t cut your way to prosperity. Ask any businessman.

            You have to have productive activities. If I were in office, I’d definitely compromise with you jokers on a couple of things – I love what North Dakota is doing right now.

            But I’d tax the living crap out of any oil and natural gas company that didn’t have an alternative energy R&D initiative. Gotta move forward and force people forward if they don’t wanna move (u guys)

            BIG NOTE!! I am NOT against spending cuts – that’s another problem – people think that everything is so mutually exclusive. I am for forcing this nation forward into alternative and green energy sources, and forcing resources into the school system so our kids don’t grow up as DUMB as you and I are.

            But especially YOU. XD

            http://thepurpletruth.blogspot.com

          • nathanalbright

            And that’s the problem. You’d use government and taxation to crown winners and losers based on possibly bogus science and biased ends. You’d crown new Solyndras because of your devotion to anthropogenic climate change so you can prove you’re just as big government as Obama. How does this make me (or anyone else here) support you or your chosen candidate any more?

          • Martin Knight

            … is that they’re incredibly scientifically illiterate – listening to Henry Waxman, you realize he has absolutely no idea what he’s talking about. Beyond screaming about the Global Warming “consensus”, they really have no idea how energy is produced, refined, stored, transmitted and converted.

            They don’t know how much energy is required to actually keep America working and produce the jobs they claim they want, how much of it is needed to power their laptops, iPods and iPhones. They have no idea how much it costs to produce these so-called “alternative” energy solutions (in terms of both money and the environment) and the fact that there are trade-offs that need to be made to keep things affordable.

            “Force” people to move forward? The worst thing about that is that when energy costs go up and poor households are suddenly hit with massive increases in their utility bills, you’ll claim you had nothing to do with it. You’ll start blaming the “1%”.

            You’re ignorant and arrogant at the same time. That’s your problem. I know what e=mc2 means. Do you? Do you even have the beginning of a clue on how you get the energy you use to boot up your computer?

          • Martin Knight

            Most people who get degrees in Womens’ Studies (like you) haven’t and never will.

          • acat

            A business extracts revenue from its’ customers by providing value.

            Government extracts revenue from its’ citizens by providing … what?

            They’re not nearly the same thing.

            Government does not *produce* anything. It offers some services that cannot be offered by private entities – the USMC comes to mind. In some cases, government offers services that can be more effectively provided by the private sector – Chicago has its’ own fleet of garbage trucks and unionized sanitation workers, some other cities (and most of the suburbs) contract out for this service.

            In no case does government produce *value* in the way a private business does.

            Further, our current federal government doesn’t have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem. While a business cannot cut its’ way to prosperity, the same logic does not apply to government. because, again, government is not a business and does not produce value.

            Reducing the amount that government takes (taxes, fees, tariffs, whatever) does not reduce its’ productivity since it has none to start with.

            Go read up on the Laffer curve, then tell me which side of it you think we’re currently on.

            Mew

          • iidvbii

            Mitt is Obama light. We heard that exact short term stimulus long term debt reduction crap come out of Obamas mouth almost word for word in 2009. Just in case you missed he is repeating it daily now again.

            NEWS FLASH….. IT DOESN’T FREAKING WORK….
            Are you suffer from some mental illness that keeps you from logically processing information?

            The government needs to get the hell out of the way…. Cut the regulations, provide tax stability, implement tort reform and unleash our energy producers. Let the business community know what the cost of doing business in the united states is going to be and then stand back and shut up.
            Want to know our secret? WE DO EVERYTHING ON THAT LIST IN TEXAS. While twits like you are busy trying to discredit our governor with misstated facts and more times than not out right lies Texas is the fast growing most rebust economy in the country. Oh and by the way that is inspite of Obama’s war on oil and gas. It also includes the thousands of illegals he refuses to deport driving our costs sky high. Throw in a drought and the worst wild fires in our history and the fact that Texas taxpayers are having to pick up the boarder war tab and guess what? We are still kicking a$$, frankly we could be doing a lot better with less government.

            Compare with your boy Good ol Mitt “If you don’t like what I stand for I’ll change it” Romney:

            Mitt ranked 47th in the nation for economic growth when the US economy was soaring. Consider that for a minute, Mitts tenure was during the hay days of the US economy and he ranked at the bottom in all economic measures. What right does your beloved Mitt Romney have to claim he is presidential caliber? He was a failure in good times. His policies are bankrupting his state and his much touted business experience is that of a wall street insider. Yeah I am sure that’s going to play well in the general.

          • gekster

            Isn’t that an OWS talking point.
            Wait, isn’t that an OWS crying point.
            “Wah, you got money you worked for, give it to me”.
            Had to get it right.

          • pttx333

            “Out, out brief candle!” Wishful thinking on my part …

          • thescreaminghead

            You guys are so scared that someone else is going to take your money and spend it on marijuana that you fail to see that you are voting against your own economic interests.

            You also fail to see that OWS and the Tea Party stand for the same things. Case in point?

            I’m OWS (cuz I can’t be Tea Party; I’d get lynched because I’m black), but I don’t want a dime of your money,I’m not on welfare – actually, I’m a self employed writer. All of my friends are all employed, tax paying citizens and awesome people, too. I don’t hang out with folks who want a handout.

            Deal with that! LOL

            http://thepurpletruth.blogspot.com

          • Martin Knight

            What this means is that you’re obviously a liar.

            Thanks for playing. Hope you haven’t spent all your welfare money.

          • Locked and Loaded

            Seeing how you like to write such foul language, it’s easy to surmise that foul language is what normally comes out of your mouth. That is the reason you would be kindly removed from any Tea Party gathering.

            Lynched? No.

          • pttx333

            Romney as a “serial windsock” then another person on the panel asked “What is a windsock?” I’ve never agreed with Carville – ever – so this is a first for me. Hilarious clip it was …

    • Martin Knight

      1.) Middle class America is NOT our enemy.

      List one Republican who has ever railed against the “middle class”.

      2.) There is a disturbing disparity in wealth in our country.

      So I guess we should all support taking from people with “too much” according to your definition, right? You’re obviously an “Occupy” idiot; it’s amazing that anyone thinks that a 23 year old one-year out-of-college graduate in Women’s Studies should have no income disparity with a 52 year old heart surgeon with 23 years of experience.

      3.) Being kind is not a weakness

      What the hell is that supposed to mean?

      4.) Hate speech is not leadership

      Wow … give us an example of hate speech by a Republican.

      5.) Science is not scarey.

      Learn how to spell “scary”. Besides, I’d bet you anything that any random three people on this site have forgotten more science than you’ve ever learned in your entire life.

      In fact, check Congress – you’ll find more Republicans with degrees in the sciences both in raw numbers and by percentages. So go f@$# yourself.

      6.) What people do in their own dam*n bedrooms is not governments business

      And? Cite me one law enacted by Republicans that says different.

      7.) There IS a separation of church and state ? its a good thing for religion just as it is for the state. Don?t crucify me because I?m Mormon ? or Muslim ? or Buddhist.

      And? Cite me one law enacted by Republicans that says different.

      8.) Wealth is not a hero?s life goal

      And the government should enforce this, how? Not only set a minimum wage but a maximum wage as well?

      9.) Love thy neighbor

      There’s already been studies that show that people who self-identify as conservatives donate more of their money, time and effort to assist those in need. So we’ve got that covered.

      Goodness gracious. I bet you wake up every morning thinking you’re better than anyone else around you, don’t you?

      • Bill S

        Great response. I got too tired to compose that kind of response to goforbarack.

      • acat

        #3 sounds like a Buddhist thing. Something about “Life is hard for everyone, be kind”.

        The problem is these soft-heads didn’t apparently understand any further, so don’t get that sometimes the kindest thing is to let someone fail, then help them to learn from it.

        Mew

        p.s. nope, cat is not a Buddhist.

  • omegamale

    Believe me, my opinion has gone down considerably over the years. but that was where the real heavy lifting was done. They actually had firemen dressed in their fire fighting gear in front of polling locations. Real classy.

    Take out the union thugs no one cares about first. Walker was smart enough to leave cops and firemen out of it so the other side couldn’t make any public safety arguments.

    A federal “right to work” law would solve all of these problems overnight instead of letting the Unions isolate one state and throw tens of millions of dollars at it. The next Republican Congress should make this a priority.

  • thescreaminghead

    this article goes a long way in showing the vacuous nature of the conservative argument in collective bargaining. There was a whole lot of “We lost, they won” stuff, but there’s one little gnawing thing…

    WHY IS COLLECTIVE BARGAINING BAD AGAIN?

    You really have to explain why you are voting against your economic interests on that one. I don’t get it. I really don’t. Liberal or conservative, if you are in any blue collar profession, why would you vote against unions?

    http://thepurpletruth.blogspot.com

    • nathanalbright

      Last time I checked the main difference between public sector and private sector employees is that when public sector employees get pay raises it comes straight out of our pockets in increased taxes. If you’re not in the public sector, you’re not voting against your interests by voting against public sector price gains. Just a thought. Maybe if you bled red instead of purple you’d understand.

    • Martin Knight

      There’s a major difference between the private sector and the public sector.

      Here’s a question for you; should I have the freedom to decide whether I want to join a union or not without risking my job?

      PS: I get to define my economic interest, not you.

    • cwilson

      The full letter is here but the key bit:

      All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters.

      .

  • florajo

    Most union-card carrying Republicans I know are pretty mellow on the collective bargaining topic because they understand the realities of working life. Although, I do know a couple who are oddly self-loathing, or are like those Muslim dudes who beat themselves with metal chains for their ideology.

    • jakeofalltrades

      n/t

  • ohiohistorian

    Great idea, right idea, lousy publicity.

    • HaroldHutchison

      He carried out the political equivalent of a banzai charge.

      Just like Christine O’Donnell, Sharron Angle, and Ken Buck.

      We cannot afford that this election…

  • btpull

    I understand the Democrats pander to the unions for money, but the media and reporters need to wise-up and understand unions are greedy and are killing middle class jobs,

    • Martin Knight

      The unions give their dues money to Democrats – most journalists approve of this.

  • danf1789

    In these battles against public sector unions, police and fire fighters must never be included. Instead just index their salaries and benefits to those of state politicians. If state senators make 80K, then cops and fire fighters make 80K., etc.

    Dan Foley

  • geoph

    Let the layoffs begin!

  • Ausonius

    As I (unfortunately) predicted correctly in my diary on this issue a month ago, the defeat means that Republicans are excellent at being incompetent, at being afraid of the unions and the MSM, and at being ham-fisted and tongue-tied in their communications.

    This is a lesson for the national election: the message needs to hammer Dem lies head-on, fairly and clearly. Rpeublican and Conservative ideas can win, if they are explained in the light of personal freedom and justice. In contrast, tidiocies occurring on the Republican side in this election were dismaying.

    Yes, Ohio was never specifically and CLEARLY given the message by the Republicans that the failure of this bill would actually lead to fewer police and firemen on the job.

    And the case can be made that such municipal workers should never have been included to begin with. Overreaching? Apparently voters thought so, but we can never really know, because our side’s message was never properly explained for over 8 months.

    The lesson for next year: stop the fear of the MSM. When they and the Dems attack, meet their attacks head on, clearly, and then counter-attack with a positive message of freedom and optimism. Oblique, bland ads with hokey music will not work.

    • Martin Knight

      Which is entirely natural.

      When it comes to communications, the GOP is stubbornly 19th Century. We continue to possess the most pedestrian and fear-ridden consultant class in politics.

      When the unions started up their campaign and made it clear that nothing short of a defeat at the polls would stop them, what did the OHGOP do? Absolutely nothing. They simply sat on their hands and decided that their Virtuous Silence would win the argument for them.

      It’s the exact same mindset at the root of the Bush ’43 Administration’s disastrous decision to not respond to the crazed Left-Wing accusations that he lied the nation into war.

      Once, when I publicly complained about Bush’s silence in the face of these accusations, I had a so-called “moderate” Republican (he eventually voted for Obama of course) worry that challenging the Left so directly would only make them angrier and more motivated to come out and vote on Election Day (2006).

      His conclusion; better to just take the calumniation, leave the allegations unchallenged and not “relitigate” the past. This, he argued, would have the added benefit of increasing bipartisanship on Capitol Hill.
      PS: There’s absolutely nothing circa 2006 moderate Republicans hold more dear than “bipartisanship.” They’d vote for the National Slap Your Mother Day Act if you called it the Bipartisan National Slap Your Mother Day Act.

      Either way, I’m guessing (and I’m 99% sure I’m right) the same thinking won out in OHGOP HQ. “Fighting back would only make the unions angrier {lips trembling}, so let’s not fight.” John Kasich pleading for compromise (a sign of weakness) and then not going to full battle stations after he was rebuffed pretty much sealed this as a loss for our side.

      Once battle is joined, join in and give no quarter. What happened in OH was a unilateral disarmament – the OHGOP failed to defend it’s own handiwork and failed to make an argument beyond anodyne oblique references.

      They lost. And they deserved to. Too bad OH is going to suffer for it.

      • Ausonius

        see my diary of about a month ago, if you are interested in this defeat:

        http://www.redstate.com/ausonius/2011/10/09/ohio-republicans-show-america-how-to-lose-in-2012/

        Martin Knight is quite right about the pusillanimous nature of Republicans here: “Don’t make the unions even madder!” seems to have been the philosophy.

        And yes, as my diary comment delineated, Kasich’s absolutely foolish and disastrous attempt in August to “compromise and avoid a referendum” showed only his knees shaking. The Dems and the Unions laughed and refused to come to his compromise meeting.

        DEMOCRATS DO NOT COMPROMISE! Republicans need to lose this bipartisan mantra. And yes, the dealings of both Bush Administrations with the Dems should have shown us that bipartisanship is a stupid, one-way street for us!

        The comment by Marcus Traianus below is also on target: how hard was it to demonstrate that in a 30-second ad?

  • florajo

    Your analogy is outrageous.

  • Marcus_Traianus

    The message was pretty simple and best illustrated by math;

    - Union members pay more of their benefits and give flexibility to the state (e.g. the taxpayers)= current level or jobs.

    …or the converse;

    - Union members don’t contribute to their healthcare costs (like almost every taxpayers does) and keep their collective bargaining status on benefits= layoffs, less jobs and higher taxes.

    Republican messaging and organizing sucks. If you can’t articulate this very simple message and center people around it- how do you expect to win in November? Simple answer; you don’t.

    It should be a wake up call that we need to stop the cannibalism and start working together. That is, if we truly want to win.

    It shouldn’t be an opportunity to produce a litany of excuses and inside baseball reasoning for defeat. That approach simply ensures we will never learn appropriate lesson and correct our weaknesses.

    • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com;http://news.unifiedpatriots.com/ Beaglescout

      The Republican Party of Ohio proved that its GOTV plans suck. There was no coordination between phone banks. There wasn’t a way for casual callers to help with the effort. Something has to be fixed before next year or Obama has a good chance of getting reelected to finish America off.

      • Marcus_Traianus

        NT.

  • Katie

    The opponents of #2 were smart to capitalize on firefighters…this article explains:
    http://www.econlib.org/library/Columns/y2011/Strowfirefighters.html

    But I disagree with Erick on this one: This is a huge loss for Republicans specifically and the future of Ohio’s prosperity in general. By a ratio of 2-1, the Unions got the vote out. Sure, they spent a fortune, but they still mobilzed the vote. And that is worrisome for 2012!

    • Katie

      Just noticed that Kevin wrote the article, not Erick. Woops.

  • timmycrw91

    I read this, and including the last line. Is this the same morning briefing that just yesterday threw in the towel and declared defeat by abandoning Cain, declaring Romney the candidate, and foretelling the end of conservatism? My, what a difference a day makes. Now you want to prepare for the bigger battles coming. Make up your mind. But whatever you do, the sentiment from now on must be to distance ourselves from Romney and throw him under the bus. You also may want to address how the unions were able to afford this battle after Wisconsin. Guess the money’s still there.

  • johninohio

    The lesson the Obama team will learn from the shoot-down of SB5 is that they need to find or invent an emotional trigger for Obamacare. Obviously, emotion trumps reason among voters.

    Make claims that without Obamacare, women and children will suffer. People with rare but terrible afflictions will go bankrupt from medical costs, and then die painful deaths.

    Maybe war veterans will have to go without the care and therapy they need.

    Pay and benefits for nurses and other female caregivers will be reduced (female–because men aren’t sypathetic figures, especially if they are doctors).

    If they do something like this, say hello to Obamacare in 2014.

  • eldstenorge

    I must say this is disappointing, but I hope they bring back the parts of this legislation that polls show Ohio supports. If the unions do this again, they will lose, no matter how much money they pour into it. I must say that I am ashamed of my home state today. I will not be visiting or spending any money in Ohio for a long time. The voters deserve the economic destruction that their votes indicate will occur. No wonder Ohio is always losing Congressional seats because so many people are leaving the state. Jobs and business are unimportant to Ohio, their goodies and toys are more important to them than sound economic policy.

  • cazzguy

    360,000 government workers, plus all their spouses and other family members? Do the math. That’s why we were given a constitutional republic and not a democracy. Democracy is mob rule, they just vote for those that promise them free stuff. There should be something ILLEGAL about voting for the people who determine how much benefits your going to get from them….period. Yahshua said in the last days lawlessness would abound. Covetousness, and stealing by fraud are right on top of the list.

    • johninohio

      Lawlessness, covetousness, and stealing by fraud have always abounded. Sometimes it’s just more obvious and widely known than other times. This is, after all, the information age.

      Someday, actions based on emotions instead of reason will bring it all crashing down, and the things we should have learned and understood through reason we will learn and understand from experience. Painful experience.

  • carolynr

    Oh…people of Ohio….these people can’t contribute to their own healthcare…these people can’t contribute into their retirement and we are in a bit of a mess…say like Greece.

    So…here’s the long and short of it. The Governor will balance the budget which means the taxes will have to be raised in order to keep supplementing government worker’s salaries (which btw are above that of the private sector). So…government workers…have you let the big bad union chiefs chart your future. Think about this…you lost. Oh..you say…how. Well…here it is. You get paid $300 a week but because the budget must be balanced…you not only hurt the people on fixed incomes..you hurt yourself. BECAUSE YOU ARE, VIA ANOTHER CHANNEL, paying for your own retirement/healthcare through higher taxes. Get what I mean…your $300 a week will go for the higher taxes you have to pay to supplement your income. Meanwhile…the big union boss walks away with the majority of your union dues for deposit into the DNC.

  • rcastonjr

    is why the GOP does not articulate better why unions in government are bad and totally different than unions in the private sector. Let me explain.
    Unions in the private sector understand that there is a “Golden Goose”. There is a delicate balance that unionized workers must take into consideration when negotiating with their employer. Reach too far and you may kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. That benefits no one and unions in the private sector do a good job, for the most part, of not pushing too far. Why? Pushing too far often leads to bankruptcy. No union wants that even though some have indeed done this inadvertently. Unions pushing so hard the Golden Goose dies is not good advertising for unionism.

    On the other hand we have Public Sector unions. With these unions the Golden Goose is not the government. It is YOU, the taxpayer. Uncle Sam simply raises taxes to cover the increase in expenses so the union can hard ball negotiate since they do not worry about killing said Golden Goose. Why? Because the government ain’t going anywhere.

    So here is my point. Republicans need to frame this in a different way. They need to make sure that the TAXPAYERS fully understand the difference in private sector unions vs public sector unions and why the latter is bad for their financial well-being. (Unless of course you are a public sector unionized employee.) The taxpayers need to be told over and over and over the difference between the two and how it is them that pays for the extravagant pay, work rules, and benefits of public sector employees. They need to hear how these folks make far above (35% or more) their private sector counterparts. This war needs to be launched so that when we go through this again, a state like Ohio won’t fall for the union’s BS.

    And finally, I am not against unionism. As long as it is in the private sector where the Golden Goose is respected and protected or it dies. Here, if unions reach too far, bankruptcy assures that balance is regained by abrogating overly lucrative contracts. In government, especially the federal government, the fear of going out of business doesn’t exist and unions run amok, leaving the taxpayers holding the bag.