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People are gonna lose their jobs over this…

By: LaborUnionReport (Diary) | October 30th, 2010 at 04:15 PM |

RESIZE: AAA

The postman delivering the mail this afternoon is long gone. Good thing. At least he didn’t hear the expletives that were thrown out to anyone within earshot as the envelope from Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield was opened and the 2011 rate increase was read.

It appears that, rather than making health care affordable as was promised, ObamaCare is taking our health insurance costs even higher—about $300 per month (or $3600 per year) higher. [Not that anyone with an IQ above an average AFSCME or SEIU member couldn't have figured it out anyway.]

Now, the “right” (read: soon-to-be mandate) of having health care insurance will only cost this family of five $17,705 per year. And, for what?…A couple of doctor visits per kid per year? The occasional prescription of antibiotics? The privilege of having a ‘just-in-case’ policy?

This is something you can take to the bank: People will lose their jobs over this…

As more and more companies, small business owners and workers begin to feel the pinch of ObamaCare’s health care cost increases, there will be less money to spend on economic activity.

Perhaps it will be a few thousand more UAW members who lose their jobs because there will be less people who can afford the monthly car payments due to ObamaCare.

Perhaps it will be a few thousand SEIU janitors who lose their jobs because there are less offices to clean as more companies eliminate office space to help defray the costs of ObamaCare.

Perhaps it will be the SEIU health care worker whose hospital or nursing home is forced to close due to cost rationing.

Perhaps a few thousand more Teamsters will lose their jobs because their companies experience the drop in business from less freight being moved.

Perhaps it will be a few thousand more UFCW grocery workers will lose their jobs because customers shift over to larger big-box (and non-union) stores in order to save money.

Perhaps it will be the union workers in union resort towns like Orlando or Las Vegas who see more jobs lost because fewer Americans will be able to afford vacations.

Perhaps it will be the unionized airline workers who see fewer air travelers taking the vacations, or less businesses holding conventions in faraway cities.

The ramifications of ObamaCare are only now beginning. As more and more see their costs increase, others will feel the effects ripple across the economy—people will lose their jobs over ObamaCare.

They say, over and over again, that elections have consequences.

While most people who will be losing their jobs don’t deserve it, a few do…

Hopefully, on Tuesday, the American people will see to it that those most responsible (219 in the House and 60 in the Senate) will be held accountable.

__________________

“I bring reason to your ears, and, in language as plain as ABC, hold up truth to your eyes.” Thomas Paine, December 23, 1776

COMMENTS

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smagar

From what I’m told, the health care issue REALLY resonates with independents.

For those of us trying to motivate them to go to the polls and vote R, this is powerful stuff.

Links, please? Should I just google “Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield 2011 rate increase?”

powertothepeople

concerning the specific company referred to above, but his story is his own personal experience of opening his own bill, so not sure he is willing to place that personal info on the open web.

I wish I had time to look for you right now and maybe someone will pass you on a few links, but there are things on the net that show the increases in HC coverage since the Obama bill and some show the rising cost is not over.
onemovoter

http://www.pwc.com/US/en/press-releases/2010/Employer-healthcare-costs-expected-to-rise.jhtml

It is a yearly survey by Price Cooper Waterhouse on health care costs. The only bad thing about it is, it was put together over several months before Obamacare was passed. However, it does give a lot of info across the scale of business and insurance companies.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande?currentPage=all
This is an interesting read as well although I don’t think all the info is included in the different aspects.

smagar

Something like “Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield users will see their monthly premiums increase @$300 for 2011.”

http://www.laborunionreport.com LaborUnionReport

I assume ever business will have varying rate changes, just as it will change with companies with different experiential factors.

texasgalt

Annual cost of this increase, $47,000. This is the biggest annual increase we have ever seen in our 29 years.

I could have hired 2 entry level people for this amount.

Let those congresscritters/looters with ears to hear and even a small bit of common sense:

Job creators can not always “find a way” to survive your nonsense laws.

smagar

texasgalt
SteveLA

texasgalt

So what do you plan to do as a small business owner?

Eat the increase or pass along to your employees as a higher set of cost for their contribution?

My company was/is (not sure after a recent merger) self insured, so not sure what is going to happen come re-enrollment.
texasgalt

We’ve barely had a plan since Fall, ’08. We are too small to play ball in the face of Obama’s onslaught. So we’ve been running in place and trying not to lose too much more ground.

With regard to our health care situation, we have tried to bid with other companies, but two of the largest have said no mas. They’ve left the state.

I guess I will eat 1/2 of the increase and pass 1/2 along to our people. They’ll blame me for this. It is inevitable. It will be terrible for morale.

Left purely to my own desires, I’d probably chuck it all and go to the gulch with some net worth while I can. That would be a hell of note . . . to be forced out by a cheating, race-baiting ghetto hustler after 29 years. As it is, we’ll probably try to muddle through. . . betting on Texas, flying on one wing and much prayer.

Regardless of how the election goes, I see the potential for 2011 to be just dreadful in so many ways. The market is way ahead of itself and you can’t cheat people forever with zero interest rates. The piper will have to paid and soon.
http://www.laborunionreport.com LaborUnionReport

I will be right behind you.
lineholder

These are legal in the state of Texas for small employers. Here’s a link

http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/health/lhcoopjoining.html

There’s a lot of different information on this site about the legal rights of small employers, coalitions, and cooperatives. Maybe there is an option for your business hidden in their somewhere.
texasgalt

I’ll check it out.

6eorge Jetson

or a little over $18k/yr

Just my anecdotal evidence, but I’m guessing it’s rather commonplace.

SteveLA

6eorge Jetson

But eventually, in equilibrium, I’m sure my employer and other employers will account for their contribution to my total compensation.

And that’s the point. People are going to lose their jobs over this. Or they are going to see their contributions to their premiums skyrocket.

SteveLA

I haven’t looked at mine, but I beleive mine total is the about the same with around $600 coming out of my paycheck a month as my contribution. Going up for sure under ObamaCare.
http://www.laborunionreport.com LaborUnionReport

BUT, as a small business owner, guess who pays that?

Adjoran

10-25%, most them effective immediately.

See, they are now forced to offer coverage for “pre-existing conditions” which raises their costs without any new source of revenue to offset them. Higher premiums is the only choice.

It’s part of Obama’s plan to drive private insurance companies out of business by raising their costs, squeezing their profits, and forcing their rates up to become unaffordable. Then the government can ride in and save the day.

Big Brother is watching.
erp617

Most people are under the delusion that we geezers

6eorge Jetson

nt

bobmontgomery

….from Obama to the Republican leadership to come to the White House for a ‘bi-partisan’ meeting on (any issue you care to name) be good-humoredly accepted as a good faith effort at cooperation and understanding?
We have Supreme Court Justices who understand that there are three separate and co-equal branches of government who will NOT be attending Obama’s dog-and-pony, ridicule-you-in-front-of-the-nation show at the State of the Union Address. Respect for the office is one thing, but it should be pretty obvious to the lunkheads on The Hill by now that the O is not there to play nice.

Xasteius
6eorge Jetson

for an apology to all of Obama’s fellow Americans he called “enemies”.

http://charlemagne-the-hammer.blogspot.com/ DerKrieger

…but my premium on my BCBS family policy went up 30% from $60/month to $80/month. Yes it’s still cheap but I have a high deductible plan, $6,000, and an HSA. For those at my employer that didn’t choose a high deductible plan the traditional plan is being eliminated and replaced with an HRA, health reimbursement account, style plan. Not sure of the details but I do know it costs more.

My 17 yr old son thinks he’s a Liberal and I try to explain taxes to him using a small town with a single restaurant as an example. I set it up by explaining that the restaurant employs a dozen people, who pay taxes, and is supported by a regular clientele. I then tell him that taxes are raised on each family by the amount they spend on their meals at the restaurant. I then let him walk me through what happens to the restaurant and its employees. When he made the logical conclusion I asked him what would not have to happen to taxes if those former employees now will need public assistance. I think he’s starting to get it. Especially now that he has his first job.

http://charlemagne-the-hammer.blogspot.com/ DerKrieger

meant “…what would NOW happen to taxes…”
texasgalt

University of Georgia PHD explains taxes with a little help from Pink Floyd.

http://www.laborunionreport.com LaborUnionReport

libertyatstake

EVERYTHING the Progressives inflict on us is designed to redistribute wealth, “rights” (meaning privilege), and power. They figure the jobs lost in the private sector will be redistributed to their big government machine. They fully intend for the entire health care industry to be redistributed to a socialized national health service. They are who they are, and they are not us.

http://libertyatstake.blogspot.com/
“Because the Only Good Progressive is a Failed Progressive”
Scope

I heard this advertised on Glenn Becks radio show, and went to see who they are. It is the conservative alternative to AARP. You don’t have to be over 50 to join. They offer discounts on Health Insurance through Health Plan One, I believe. They have several high deductible plans to choose from. If you don’t spend much on medical care through the year, it can save you money. You would in essence be paying for catastrophic coverage, and you can have your own form of a health savings account, called under your mattress. I don’t know how long these plans will last with Ocare though.

http://www.laborunionreport.com LaborUnionReport

My understanding is there are only three companies who offer only three types of plans in the entire state.

In essence, our costs are high because of a government approved monopoly that has restricted all forms of true competition.

JSobieski

Some insurance companies don’t favor them, and others may feel that people are really looking for traditional coverage.

http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/public-affairs/hsa/

http://www.medsave.com/

http://www.submityourarticle.com/articles/Wiley-Long-1659/Health-Savings-Accounts-90466.php

http://www.healthquote360.com/Health_Insurance_Companies/Top_25_Health_Insurance_Company_Review.php

victrola

Then the Democrats get to save the middle class by offering a public option.

Universal healthcare used to be something only the poorest Americans longed for since most working Americans could afford it, but if it becomes something that the middle-class can no longer afford, Americans will want some sort of Medicare type solution.

Republicans need to go beyond just repealing ObamaCare, and find real solutions to lower the cost of healthcare moving forward.

oltex2

The first step needs to be to restore FREEDOM.
We first need To Pass the Freedom of Speach in Science Act (don’t have the #) It will allow the publication of peer reviewed scientific info regarding proven
benefits of products. Much more important than it sounds.
We currently have science by consenus, witness climate change.
#2 We need The access to Medical Treatment Act S.2140
You should search and read the Act. It will do more to reduce the cost of Health Care than any other single thing we can do.
In case you hadn’t noticed, there is a terrible disconnect in the Medical Profession. Individual Doctors are fine folks trying hard to do good in spite of the most corrupt leadership imaginable. As regards trauma, and emergency care the science has made great advances, bu as regards the diseases we are right where we were 80 to 100 years ago. There is a reason for that called MONEY. outright repeal the FDA They do more harm than good.
The 2 steps above would reduce our costs about 1 Trillion$$$ per year.
texasgalt

The wait is forever and the care is substandard.

The best path for best medical care is repealing the monstrosity just passed. Then state governments need to get out of the business of telling health insurers what they will cover and where they can sell their insurance. That’s the ONLY thing government can do to make health care more affordable. Anyone that is afraid of this needs to turn in their conservative card.

Anything more than this is government trying to design something they know nothing about. Can you point to any “real solutions” by government that ever LOWERED the cost of anything? What lowers cost is LESS government.

OccamsRazor

First we focus for three more days.

Then, contrary to Steele’s thoughts that the first test of the new Congress be debt balancing (a high priority although on the back burner), we enforce and hold new members’ feet to the fire on submitting a repeal of obamacare.

Force him to veto himself out of office in ’12 NOW while we have momentum and memories are fresh and we’ll sort out who we count on moving forward. Force his legacy into a corner.

While people’s insurance climbs, we take back the senate and the office in order to repeal (and win this time) and institute the plans so thoroughly discussed here prior to this economic monstracity was forced on us.

Strike while the iron is hot now while we have momentum, then we’ll make the iron hot by striking it in ’12.

texasgalt

>> Force his legacy into a corner.<<

I like the sound of that.

JSobieski

Republicans (at least some of them) do and have gone beyond “just” repealing Obamacare.

The only good thing about the prescription drug benefit that Bush signed was the HSA stuff.

victrola

Just repealing ObamaCare is not going to solve the health care problem in this country. There’s conservatives out there that think everything will fall in place if we can just overturn it.

ObamaCare made things MUCH worse, but it wasn’t a great situation to begin with. Costs were skyrocketing, and it was gradually becoming unaffordable. Obama just sped that up dramatically.

Republicans should not only repeal ObamaCare, but offer solutions like tort reform, allowing the sale of health insurance plans across state lines, tax incentives, etc.

SteveLA

victrola

What is the proper role of the Federal Government in Health Care given that I can’t find anything in the Constitution about this topic and there is the 10th Amendment. Maybe down the commerce clause rabbit hole, but that’s iffy.

I’m sure as heck not convinced that you can mess with this topic in way that is not getting into troubling areas when it comes to the question of what is the role of the Federal government or should be. The question of how to square the demands for smaller government with Federal powers messing with health-care is one I have not figured out.

victrola

I would love to see a “back to basics” approach to government, but let’s be honest, that’s not reality right now.

There’s nothing in the Constitution about Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stanps, unemployment benefits, the EPA, the Dept of Education, OSHA, minimum wage, the Civil Right Act, etc, yet they are the law of the land, and no one is seriously thinking of legal challenges in the Courts to end these government programs and policies because they aren’t in the Constitution. It is settled law, the issue is how do we get Congress to repeal or reform these laws, not how do we get judges to invalidate them on Constitutional grounds.

I see no violation of the Constitution if the federal government say passed a law allowing individuals to expand health care savings accounts, write off premium payments, fined plantiffs if they lost frivolous lawsuits against doctors and hospitals, etc.

Conservatives need to formulate pro-market solutions to figure out a way to lower costs. Doing nothing is not an option, and there needs to be some thinking outside the box because if someone who is doing everything “right” can’t afford health care for his family, they’re going to start clamoring for “free” healthcare from the government once again.
GregInFla

Dred Scott was settled law too.
JSobieski

Moving from federal control to personal control is a directionally correct move. We can argue later about how far we continue to move in that direction. Frankly, individualized patient-driven accounts would be so sufficiently awesome that I would be more than happy to land at that point and leave it to future generations to move from there.

To talk about just ending things like Medicare or Medicaid is simply nuts, and given the reliance of people on those programs, unfair.

Even the most aggressive termination of those programs would need to be phased in over a long period of time. Even that objective would be far easier to achieve if the federal roll is limited to enhancing individual choice.

wethepeoplevstheprogressives

Please read the last sentence. It is obvious to us but when put in context of your car and home insurance it makes it that much more of an epic fail on this country! I pray everyday we get the chance and repeal this nightmare!
SteveLA

LUR

I have not seen my next year’s insurance bill, re-enrollment period has not hit my company yet , but I do expect some amount of increase for thecoverage for my 21 year old son still at home. I don’t have a problem paying for that, and do hope in the Republican re-work of health care that this provision is kept.

The fact that parts of Obama care has some appeal, limited though it may be, is going to make the job the new R majority is going to have on reforming ObamaCare hard.

janis

Why? Keeping him there legally costs all of us money because we can’t boot out own kids off our plans when they hit 19. Why on earth would you want to keep him on your plan when he’s 21 and should be out on his own at this point?

It’s comments like this, Steve, that make a whole lot of folks wonder just what side you’re really on.

SteveLA

janis

Many people have sons and daughters who because of the economy/lack of jobs and other issues are living at home. Would I like to see my son out on his own, yep, but the reality is he is living at home and if something happens to him in a medical sense I sure don’t mind that he is covered by my health care insurance.

I don’t mind paying that insurance cost out of my pocket, and don’t really see how that is “costs all of us money “….can you explain that? Maybe in the sense that family plans have gone up, or we are expecting them to go up, you are correct, is that what you mean?

But reality is, if your son/daughter who is over 19 and who is living at home gets sick, do you want to personally bankrupt yourself to pay for his/her care or rely on public heath care, or just what? I don’t know what other options there are, and private insurance is just about not available in CA.

These sorts of issues are going to be tough for R’s to figure out and untangle when they propose a new version of health care reform to replace ObamaCare. Maybe being able to buy insurance across state lines is the answer, same result and I’d be glad to do so for my son.

JSobieski

are the answer. A single parent with one kid isn’t priced like a family of 7.

Capitalism works. HSAs are the closest to capitalism in health care that we will be able to get.

SteveLA

JSobieski

Sign me up, soon as Republicans get this passed.
JSobieski

nt
SteveLA

I’d like to read more. I can go to the evil Google search if you don’t.
JSobieski

http://paulryan.house.gov/Issues/Issue/?IssueID=9978

http://www.house.gov/budget_republicans/entitlement/roadmap_detailed_entirereport.pdf

Doc Holliday

The government is not the solution to the problem, the goverment IS the problem. I am not just disagreeing with you Steve, I am also disagreeing with those who say “the government won’t let us boot out out 19 year olds”. True conservatism says we should be able to do anything we want if we can pay for it. How huge is the difference between paying for an extra family member and helping your son pay his own private insurance while young? Sure there is a difference, but the point is, each person has a right to do his own thing, and should not rely on the government to alter the markets out of “compassion” or “tough love”.

I argue that much of the generally accepted medical insurance industry is a blight on freedom and health. I have known many doctors and they always charge much less to the uninsured that will pay in cash. the reason is they charge astronomic fees to those with insurance because they know those fees will be reduced, and whatever they can get the companies to pay, is just gravy.

There was a time when a doctor had to charge what he could actually get from his patients. Sometimes that was a wad of cash, other times it was a chicken and a few rides to town. The medical insurance industry, metastasized with federal gov bureaucracy has created an insatiable being that does nothing but take from the producers and spit out crumbs to the victim class.

If there were a true free market, Steve could keep his son on his plan, for a price. And those that think anyone over 19 should pay their own way, could do that too. But the system we have is bloated, unfair, and extremely wasteful and not based on any semblance of a free market.
GregInFla

And anyone just sitting at home doing nothing better be doing something to improve themselves. Community college enrollment is up bigtime because of the tightness of jobs. The problem is that employees with responsible older kids will be paying for the kids of others.

SteveLA

Greg

You are correct, but right now a lot of kids who graduated in the last 2 to 3 years are stuck in McJobs and living at home.

My son has been in and out of college, so he was and then wasn’t covered. He’s working a couple of McJobs now and saving up to go back to school, his sister who went away to school probably put some fire back in the belly.

Reality is that there are mostly McJobs out there right now, and they don’t usually have bennies. Heck ask a few 20 something kids just out of college how it goes with finding good jobs, not a lot for them ether.

David123

If you’ve got a wife or husband, there’s no disadvantage for you to cover your kids as well, because once you choose family your whole family is covered regardless as to how big it is.

SteveLA

DAvid123

I tend to think that Insurance companies will not discriminate on the cost of family plans based on the ages of your children. So in that sense the proviso to allow children up to 26 to stay on your plan and you don’t have children of that age can be seen as a tax, valid point.

I would buy some sort of catastrophic plan for son if I could, but one is not available. Make that a priory for the R heath care reform, that will be good by me. Or make the argument that the Federal government should not be involved with heath care at all outside of Medicare or Civil Service/Military health, that’s probably something I wouldn’t argue with ether. I don’t read much on anyone taking that stance.

Scope

it’s the mentality of the dependency society. If an adult, at 21, cannot take responsibility for his own life’s expenses, it only breeds more dependency. It is Obama’s goal to make as many dependent as possible, and, parents that further that goal, only hurt their offspring. Sometimes life’s experiences are tough and rough. There is alot to be said for tough love.

SteveLA

scope

Gee that’s a great plan, maybe there should be a Republican party “pro-family” plank on that. We’ll call it the Scope Marie Antoinette “let them eat cake” plan.

By the way, the change of allowing children up to 26 to stay on parents medical plans was related to “not enrolled in school”. Maybe your get tough approach should apply to my daughter in college too when she turns 21? That might actually be a good thing and encourage her to hurry up and graduate from college by the time she turns 21. I know that the money we are spending sending her to college could be better spent on a new car for me…..not that I’m selfish or anything but a new car would be great.

Scope

It is wonderful to love your children. It is better to teach them to be independent, and, to be able to fend for themselves. God forbid, you were not there Steve, what would they do without your financial support at least. You are growing some real dependents. They are eating your cake, and, you are unwilling to teach them how to live in a world without mommy and daddy support. Hey, they are your offspring, I am absolutely in belief that you should do with them as you will. You put them here, have at it.

nepanyrush

My family blue cross/blue shield in PA also went up. And I have to pay for it myself, since my nonprofit employer cannot afford to give me health care nor can my wife’s. In the past, I would just go some months without health care to save many thousands of dollars, but now Obamacare would rather I be bankrupt.

And while I make too much (but little) to get Obamacare for free, a colleague who doesn’t work claims he is now getting health care for free thanks to Obama and he is delighted with Obama for that. Of course, I am among those paying his healthcare but he thinks the money comes from some hole in the ground.

Absolutely infuriating.

davesinsanantonio

she had to have it at the university she worked at. After the divorce it dawned on me that it was cheaper to pay out of pocket for dental work at my dentist than it was to pay the co-pay at her insurance’s approved dentist. Plus, and a big one, I didn’t have to pay any premiums. So, my out of pocket expenses for paying everything myself was cheaper than have insurance pay some of it. Go figure! Maybe there is something in that free enterprise stuff after all. Huh! Maybe America should try market capitalism some time, it actually works.

http://charlemagne-the-hammer.blogspot.com/ DerKrieger

How many people believe that their benefits are “free” to them rather than simply offset by their receiving a lower salary than they otherwise might if an employer offered no benefits but instead paid the cash value of those benefits as salary? ANY company that provides health coverage as a benefit would save money if they paid their employees the cash value of those plans instead because they could eliminate most of their HR departments. More companies need to make this case to the public at large, Congress, and their employees.

GregInFla

government will start taxing us on the so-called value of those benefits. Your 2011 W-2 will have the value on it. How long before that value moves into the taxable column? Not long at all.
pragmatic

When I started a new job at the beginning of the year my employer was touting all the benefits that came with the job. I asked if I could get a higher salary if I turned them down. The look I got was priceless, a mix of disbelief (why would I want to turn them down), confusion (how to answer the question), and anger (how dare I ask something like that). They finally just said “No.”

I have discussed this with some coworkers and most of them don’t understand, because to them the employer pays for those benefits and it doesn’t affect our wages. It saddens me that so many of them don’t understand.

geemen73

The end game to Obamacare is this, new W2 forms will be coming out with a box to check about whether you have health care insurance or not. If you get it through your employer, they will fill out the information with how much is the policy Example.$.14,000 for a family plan. In turn the IRS will add this amount to your anual imcome at the end of the year, counting it as income to be taxed, even know you never see a $14,000 increase. So this added income which you dont see moves you up on the tax scale. This is how he plans to fund this Cr@p. So every anle he figured out to collect money some how, If your employer drops the health care benefit because it cost mid six figures for a staff of 25, they will just pay the find which is way cheaper then the cost of insurance, and we know the other mandatory fines if you refuse to buy a plan and so on. Also noticably missing from all these laws are the unions , teachers etc…..
Hancock

I run a small business now and have an individual insurance policy covering just me and my wife. Our carrier is Anthem BC/BS Virginia, and the plan was certainly not a ‘Cadillac’ plan even though expensive.

From 9/08 to 9/09, with a $2500 deductible, the cost was $1200 per month.

From 9/09 to 9/10, the same policy was $1573 a month.

In 8/10, I got a notice that next years premium was moving up to $2251 per month. I was outraged, could not understand any reason why my monthly health insurance premium on a so/so plan could cost more per month than most people pay for the house for a couple in their early 40s. (of course, other than Obamacare.) We had had basically no claims of any size the previous two years, but did have several prescriptions each.

I called Anthem and asked why. Hilariously, they claimed that ‘not one single cent’ of my premium increase had anything to do with federal health care reform. I laughted at the woman and said I didnt believe her, that obviously it did. She kept wanting to change the topic, and sell me a different plan with a higher deductible. I held off, I had til end of Sept.

Long story short, I investigated any other alternative out there. Virginia does not have any health insurance community pools for small business of course, since Dems didnt want that in the bill. Bottom line, I had three choices — risk it with no insurance, take a very high deductible, or try to find a part time job with insurance benefits somewhere (perhaps at the store that sells unicorns lol).

In the end, I had to go with a $10,000 deductible policy, and still have to pay $1273 a month. I dread next September, for I know it will go up again, and again, to the point where I will eventually have no choices in the private market.

Being a former Hill staffer for many years, I know that even a GOP victory wont change this. To repeal Obamacare, we will need 70 in the Senate, and 300 plus in the House, or close to the same numbers with a GOP president after 2012. I hate to be negative, but defund/repeal aint going to happen any time soon, we have much more work to do to elect many more conservatives for that day to come.

Meanwhile, in answer to LUR’s original point, jobs will be lost. I drive a 1999 vehicle and had planned on replacing it with a new/newer one. Cant do that anymore. Could have bought 4-5 cars for the $2250 a month premium, but now even with the $1273 premium, I have to be ready for the 10K deductible. So no car purchase now, and since I expect the h/c situation to get worse in 2011 and beyond, I am not planning on doing anything until the wheels fall off my current ride.

Overall, I feel very badly about the h/c situation. I feel like I am fighting a losing fight — over the long term, I have already maxed out the deductible to keep things affordable, and the premium is still $1273 a month. There is nowhere for that number to go than up — meaning withing a couple years I fully expect to be back over $2000 a month again with a $10,000 deductible. I see this ending only one of the three ways, none of them happy for me — 1) go back to work for the govt or a big corp that can offer health care 2) be uninsured entering my late 40s, right when I may need it 3) go into some $%#@(!@( government run plan, and face restrcited care/rationing.

SteveLA

Hancock

I tried to start a small business back in early 2000, went through the same thing. Went with a HMO deal that cost like $650/month for a family and was darn glad to get it.

But the other side of the question, is it a Federal government role to be involved in health care outside of Medicare and government employees? ObamaCare is crud, but the fundamental question of Federal powers involvement in health-care seems to be one that is not discussed. I tend to think no, outside of perhaps forcing states to allow across state issuance of insurance and formation of health associations that you talk about above, and even then I’m not sure it’s the Federal government’s business.

JSobieski

I don’t think you want to increase taxes, but if you get rid of the ability to make health insurance tax deductible, you are enacting one heck of a tax increase.

I don’t think we will be able to get the federal government out of Medicare or Medicaid. I do think that those programs can and should be voucherized. Similarly, I think the federal tax code can be used to support/enhance/facilitate HSA accounts, which are the best way to actually get costs under control.

SteveLA

Jsobieski

Using the tax codes to force change in the health care market place is something that I could support, but how do you force real market reforms by making health insurance something you can buy across state lines and through pools or something like that?

You get into where the lines are of the powers of the Federal government and forcing states to do things like insurance reform, a real 10th Amendment bear trap.

JSobieski

so even without anything else, you are going to jump start some real market forces.

Allow anyone (not just small business owners) to set up HSA accounts so long as they purchase a qualifying HSA high deductible policy.

Federal power can be used to sanctify high deductible policies in the same way that Obamacare uses federal power to shut down high deductible policies.

As far as I know, HSA qualifying plans are permitted in all 50 states. Is this due to some affirmative federal law?

To my knowledge, the lawsuits on Obamacare do not focus on the ability of HHS to define “minimum” requirements for health insurance.

My plan is to make the minimum requirements truly minimal.

Read Chesterton

I see this ending only one of the three ways, none of them happy for me

pamela1631

That’s the increase that went into effect on 09/01/10.
For my husband and myself that totals out to $6300.00 a year for HMO coverage.

A friend of mine has a plan which will kick in picking up 80% of the bill once a $2500 deductible is met-per person. The kicker is prescriptions are not included to meet that $2500.00 deductible.
Her husband’s meds run between $700-$1000.00 a month.
And this plan is supposedly in line with Obamacare.
So where is the affordability?
http://www.800cart.com Ron Robinson

Sorry for those of you who were effected, but we’ll have the fun of watching Obama and Congressional leaders try to beat this down on Monday…

…schedule congressional committee hearings…

…subpoena Anthem executives…

…threatening statements unlimited…

…promising waivers – even if the law doesn’t allow for them….

…accusing Anthem of crimes, fraud, misleading…

Did Anthem/Blue Cross think to craft the sTatements (and perhaps include a letter) to make it really, really obvious to the oblivious that their health care is going up a lot lot lot?

texasgalt

was careful to assign about half of the increase to “new government mandates.”

The majority of of group plans come up for renewal in the October and November. Too bad for the Donks.

Praying

That’s all. What more do I need to say? Stupid democrats. Zero knowledge of the economy and how the private sector works. Thanks a lot.
JoeG

It went up 41%!

I’m out $880 a month plus my employer kicks in another $650. And this isn’t that impressive of a policy.
smagar

If you can give me more examples of how your individual premiums went up, I’ll collect them together as evidence. I won’t use anyone’s screen names.

Moderators—if you don’t want me to do this, just let me know.

I’m looking for a topic that will catch people’s eyes the day before the election—I think this is it.

Scope

and it should be telling how they are now giving more donations this year to Republicans, when they heavily funded the Democrats in 08. I have no doubt that this insurance company in particular wanted the individual mandate. That was a guaranteed number of customers for them. When we talk about being able to buy medical insurance across state lines, what would we do, buy a Blue Cross/Blue Shield policy in the next state? If they have the lock on medical insurance sales, it is similar to when AT&T had the lock on telephone service, before they were broken up. Gotta break up BC/BS in order to get true competition.

smagar

Folks, keep the personal experiences coming. Especially if you’ve been told the rate increases are due to the new healthcare law.

JadedByPolitics

$505 it SUCKS and that is Blue Cross as well. If the tax rate goes up in January I will pay an additional 6K a year in taxes which means everything I enjoy doing will no longer be done, I haven’t checked how much more my husband will pay (I am to terrified to). There will be no eating out, no movies, no donations to anyone there will be nothing but working and paying bills and writing on the internet and I have to say that these Socialists deciding that our way of life was unsustainable just to give it to some lazy bum who wants to lay around watching the View is despicable!

THEY MUST GO!

willy506

I spoke with a buddy of mine who works for a major airline and is getting a 52% increase in premium. The company told him it was in advance of 0bamacare. He was livid. He’s a registered indy and blames 0bama and the dems for this.
izoneguy

That should be what the Republicans start saying in January….

And they should be brutally honest. They should SAY – we will push for REPEAL – LOCK, STOCK & BARREL…But we cannot do it unless the democrats push for it also. The democrats must implore Obama not to keep vetoing a repeal bill.
(Of course we know Obama won’t repeal his baby)
So you get it out on the table and say Beyond Repeal we will do this….
And show the American public what a mistake ObamaCare is….
This strategy will keep Obama down in the 20% approval rate.
He will NOT be able to get anything else done and he will LOSE all support from all but the most socialist of dems.
The idea is to make him so unpopular that he will get pushback when he tries to foist his agenda through his leftist bureaucracy.

Yes many thousands of people will lose jobs and many thousands will be from health insurance companies, this was the Marxist stategy all along.

izoneguy
OldNuc

There just may be a reason that the Republican party insiders are not real big on pushing Obamacare repeal now, or ever. Take a look at this post, “Do you see now that the Cocktail Party GOP establishment DELIBERATELY did not rail against Obamacare because…” over at HillBuzz. Sounds like a perfectly good explanation to me.

izoneguy

Those who don’t will be kicked out in 2012 as well…..

The whole corrupt weasel class will be thrown out ever two years.
The America people will do what they need to do to get rid of Obama & ObamaCare. It will be reversed. If it takes a 100% Republican Congress then it will be done. The liberals will not have a voice and won’t have a platform left.

On a side note – Chavez Says Venezuela’s Golf Courses Should Be Seized, Put to Other Uses

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-31/chavez-says-venezuela-s-golf-courses-should-be-seized-put-to-other-uses.html

Now where is Obama going to golf when he ~~moves~~ flees to Venezuela

SteveLA

I wonder how big the hit is going to be on health insurance cost for Federal retirees and on Medicare Part D precipitants? Would also be an interesting real world bench mark for what ObamaCare is costing.

SteveLA

Or TRICARE increases? I wonder what the premium increase for retired military will be, anyone know?

Scope

I remember seeing a story that some medical insurance provider in California was increasing their rates by some huge percent. I think it was a Blue Cross/Blue Shield company. Then there was another story about Connecticut increasing their rate by a huge percent, again, I think it was a Blue Cross Blue Shield program. I really don’t remember for sure. Those articles disappeared pretty quickly.

I’m reading the comments above, and, many are talking about their Blue Cross/Blue Shield premiums going way up, under whatever their state calls the Blue Cross Blue Shield plan. Take a look at how this company has lobbied and/or given their campaign contributions to the party in power, or who they think will be in power. There are way too many Republicans that are on the receiving end of their money for my comfort.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000109

A year or so ago, there was an insurance agent on local radio here in VA. He said that something like 94% of all medical insurance groups/individual policies were sold by Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield. Anyone have any problems with Blue Cross/Blue Shield?
bcourt17

It is utter nonsense to think that some how by covering your adult child on your insurance is creating some dependency syndrome. If your child is in school or is unemployed what are you supposed to do. If you are familiar with family plans at all, it does not cost you anything more to cover 1 more person. The cost differential comes with how much you use it. Let’s get real and not sound utopian here.

SteveLA

bcourt17

I’m not trying to ignore the fact that increasing costs on insurance to cover children beyond 21 who are not in school is a bit like “free beer”. There is a price I expect to pay and to be honest there is probably a price others will pay for that too due to increases in family heath care costs.

For me it comes down to my own personal economics. I can’t afford to privately insure my son (not even sure if I could buy a policy right now), and at the same time if he got sick I sure as heck could not sit by and watch him perhaps die from an illness or go bankrupt trying to pay for care out of pocket. Tough choice but one that if you are actually thinking about responsibility of a parent then you are faced with those sorts of choices.

A R plan that establishes a way to buy policies across state lines, at an assumed lower cost, I’d be all over that, or rather all over my son to buy it and reduce the risk to my own personal finances. But right now, this option does not exist.

That’s the real world and real responsibilities where people live, the uber Conservatives who are so free with their negative comments must live somewhere else I guess.

tollen

is writing on this, also:

http://hillbuzz.org/2010/10/30/do-you-see-now-that-the-cocktail-party-gop-establishment-deliberately-did-not-rail-against-obamacare-because-they-are-protecting-romney-to-be-their-cucumber-and-mayonnaise-soggy-choice-for-2012/

lineholder

Who would have thought they would even remotely consider being allies to conservatives? That is just filled with irony, isn’t it? I love it.

Sorry, didn’t mean to jump OT, but the comments they made about Palin and DeMint as “Resistance Generals” (and actually mean it as a compliment) caught me off guard.

blooch

the PUMA’s didn’t slink away after “08.

http://hillbuzz.org/2010/10/27/an-open-letter-to-rush-limbaugh-and-his-listeners/

lineholder

Part of me thought it was just a fluke or they were trying to play some sort of game. (Well, they are Democrats.) But after reading this tonight, I’m astonished!!!

blooch

Big-time Hillary supporter and straight-ticket Dem in CA…until Obama’s ’08 primary shenanigans.

I’ve been lobbying her these past few months, and she’s onboard with Fiorina and Whitman next week. She can’t wait for Hillary to Primary Obama in ’12. Barring that, she’s voting ABO.

Hell hath no fury…
Scope

http://sharmajee.wordpress.com/

They still like and admire Hillary, but, they now claim to have hitched their wagons to Palin, and it seems to all other Republican women.
lineholder

in reading the blog posts. I had heard recently that Hilary had stated that she didn’t want to run for President. I thought at the time that it was just talk, a smokescreen of sorts. If there was a chance of her running, the PUMAs would know about it, wouldn’t they? So maybe they have an inside track on some information that we don’t know.

I will say that they also mentioned Herman Cain for consideration. I like Herman Cain and I think he would be a formidable candidate if he ran against Obama in 2012. Can you imagine Cain versus Obama in a debate? LOL.

I have questions about the stand Cain takes on certain issues, but I do think that having Cain as a candidate would minimize the race issue on both sides of the political spectrum. He would provide a strong, positive example for African-Americans in the respect that he has for this nation, and perhaps this would encourage this sector of our society to be open-minded to the conservative point of view.

Progressives are shamelessly manipulating the race issue to the hilt. I’d love to see this particular tactic minimized to the point that it is no longer effective.
Scope

Americans that happen to be black (I hate anyone using hyphenated before American for anyone) that will do the Republican party, and conservatives in particular, proud. Allen West is one, Ryan Frazier is another, and, I’m sure there are many more. It is heartening to see blacks running, and ahead in the polls, for the Republican party. It is clearly not true that all blacks are all Democrats, but, not many came forward to run on the Republican ticket in the past. The Republicans are a much better fit, politically for the blacks, and all minorities than the Democrats are, and thank you God, these great candidates will hopefully be able to bring many of the disillusioned minorities around to seeing that.

I have heard Herman Cain only a few times, but, was most impressed with his resume, and his way of articulating conservatism. He is a force multiplier for our side, unlike Colin Powell that turned up his heels, and obviously went for one of his own, simply because he was one of his own. I respect and admire some of my fellow Scots (or any of the other 56 varieties in my family tree) but, I wouldn’t vote for one simply because he/she is one of my own. Our newly elected Americans that are black, will go a long way to moot the racism charges, maybe. Some of the worst on the left will call Uncle Tom on our members, and, so be it. We will be behind them, as long as they are with us. Beck’s history on our American’s that are black, who fought in the Civil War, and those that held very high honorable positions in Government, and everywhere else to be true, had to have had a profound affect on the black people in knowing that that history has been erased by the Progressives that needed a victim class in order to promote their sick policies. We are absolutely gaining on them lineholder.

I wondered, just as Rush did, how can you be for Hillary and Sarah at the same time? It seems the PUMAS have made the conversion, and I will guess, completely. They are working their butts off for many of our Republican candidates. I have no doubt that if Hillary challenges Obama in 2012 (and I still think that is a good possibility), and, if Palin is on the ticket, they will go for Palin. I love every minute of it, and, welcome every one of them to the party of sanity. It’s all good.
blooch

They have reviewed all of the old bag-ladies the Dems have to offer and found them wanting. Hillary may have read the handwriting on the wall, may be tired of it all, and she’s just punching the clock until a graceful exit in two years. I don’t think she’ll be back for a second Obama term if he runs and wins.

But Hillary could also be laying low until after the midterms to see how bad it is for the Dems, if Obama’s approval continues to crater, and whether he pivots to the center. If the answers to these questions are: Really Effin’ Bad. Moho Deep and More Leftovers, Please, then she’s gone by June…and I say that because she’s sitting on a terrorism time-bomb that she needs to pass on to someone else real soon.

It doesn’t mean she’ll run again, but she’ll be able to make her intentions more obvious when she’s on the outside. I know you and lineholder have probably seen the rumors about the fear, disgust and disillusionment that pervades the atmosphere among the underlings in Obama’s administration. I take that stuff with a grain of salt because it’s too pitch perfect for conservative ears, but it’s possible that the grownups are getting the courage to kick down the door to Junior’s room. Hillary might like to be a part of that intervention. In that case, I bet the PUMA’s would be back at her side in a heartbeat.
Scope

if you read some of the articles, on the site I linked above, they are not just Hillary supporters at this time. I don’t agree with them that Hillary “loves America”, but, what would they say after coming on strong for her in 08? They seem to have gone all in for many of our Republican candidates, and, that is something very very welcome for our side. They are way too into Sarah Palin at this time to go back to supporting someone from the party they know is destroying our country. I believe they will always hold their ideas that Hillary was treated very badly during 08, but they also know that Palin is still being treated very badly for the past 2 years. They are angry at O’Donnell’s treatment, and at Angel’s treatment, even by some in their own party. I personally don’t think they will switch sides again. They are not dumb by any means.
blooch

then I don’t think Erick has to worry about the “Angry White Male” meme too much. Everywhere I turn, the signs(except for the signs at the Daly/ Colbert freakshow) say that this election is a whole different animal. The Dem establishment and the MSM haven’t wrapped their heads around it yet, and the GOP establishment is just beginning to limn what’s going on. From your link, looks like some of the Dem rank and file are ahead of the curve with us. I hope their numbers are significant, but I welcome them all.

http://www.alyssakaeding.com Alyssa Kaeding

Yeah, I saw this coming. My father owns a small real estate/appraisal company and I remember years ago I was asking him various questions about his business. At the time he had 5-6 people working for him. He always struggled with the health insurance issue because he wanted to provide it for his workers, but it made more sense to just pay them well and let them choose insurance on their own, and a few of them got insurance through their wives already. I distinctly remember him saying that if were required to pay for everyone’s health insurance, it would put him out of business in a heartbeat. But I suppose Obama and the Democrats weren’t thinking about companies like my dad’s when they put this bill together, huh? Now, even the precious unions will have to face some reality.

RS

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