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A Response to Jim Hoft on the Matter of Lara Logan

Just for the sake of clarity right up front, and in order to avoid sucking anyone unwillingly into any controversy it might cause, this post represents only my personal views. You will notice that my tagline does not say Erick Erickson.

By now I am sure that most of you have heard that CBS reporter Lara Logan was repeatedly sexually assaulted and beaten severely last Friday during the course of covering the protests in Egypt. The details on what happened at this point are unclear, but given that Logan was hospitalized for almost a full week (reports are coming out that she was released today) the extent of her injuries was apparently quite severe, and the indications are that she may well have been subjected to serial rape. In any event, it is clear that she suffered terribly for doing her job.

In immediate response to this story, the execrable Nir Rosen publicly remarked that Logan essentially got what was coming to her for being a “warmonger.” Rosen’s comments were so repugnant that he has since thankfully been excused from his association with NYU. The Rosen fracas has been covered elsewhere extensively and I do not wish to rehash it here – anyone who is surprised at this kind of behavior from Rosen has clearly not been following his career.

I would like to take this opportunity to respond to this only slightly less offensive post from GatewayPundit’s Jim Hoft. Until I read this post yesterday I was a fan of Jim’s work in general and so I hope he will take this in the spirit of someone who is not, like MMFA, constantly out for gotcha quotes from conservatives, but rather from an ally who generally agrees that the media soft-peddles the dangers of Islam and that many liberals are likewise dangerously blind to its ills.

Jim, your post was appalling and should be apologized for without qualifications.

First of all, it is necessary to clarify some misconceptions that people in general seem to have about this story. Logan did not wander alone aimlessly into the middle of a rioting mob, as some of the “blame Logan” crowd seems to suggest. Her crew – which included several male camera and production personnel and a trained security detail – were from all accounts that exist surrounded by a moving mob of approximately 200 men which forcibly separated her from her crew and her security and repeatedly assaulted her. This is not whatsoever a case of a lone female injecting herself into a dangerous situation (even if one grants the fallacious premise that this is relevant to whether the female in question is in any way to blame for being repeatedly raped and beaten half to death).

Second, Hoft (and many others) seem to be of the opinion that Lara Logan is somehow blind or ignorant of Muslim culture and its treatment of women and/or Westerners. This is of course uninformed commentary of the highest order. Whatever Logan’s political beliefs, she has spent the better part of a decade essentially living in primarily Muslim countries and reporting from the front lines of dangerous and hairy situations. An attractive female reporter like Logan simply does not survive that long in those situations without being more aware of the dangers posed in that part of the world than Jim Hoft will ever be from his perch in St. Louis. The suggestion that Logan was a doe-eyed naïf in this circumstance is just eager jackassery of the worst sort, and is advanced only because it fit Hoft’s pre-conceived narrative of what the story should be.

It is that preconceived narrative which exposes something ugly about Hoft, which I truly hope he did not mean. Hoft’s post begins:

Lara Logan is lucky she’s alive. Her liberal belief system almost got her killed on Friday.

Later, when criticized by Media Matters, Hoft doubled down:

The far left does not like it when their tenets are questioned. It must be hard when someone holds a mirror up and you see that your twisted agenda has caused such havoc and pain around the world. These warped individuals must have missed that day of school when they talked about playing with fire.

Hoft’s instinctive – and completely factually unsupported – leap to blame the victim of a serial rape on her own behavior does more than play into the liberal caricature of misogynist conservative men, it actively exhibits it. Lara Logan was on-scene because her job required her to be there. Her stock and trade is reporting on ongoing events in the Middle East and there is no more newsworthy event occurring right now than the riots in Egypt. Whatever deficiencies might have existed in the size, firepower, and rules of engagement of her security detail may squarely be laid at the feet of CBS, not Logan.

Boiling this down to the point: what sort of alleged conservative man witnesses a woman subjected to a near-death beating and repeated sexual assault and has a first instinct – before almost any verifiable facts are and before the victim herself has been even released from the hospital to cast about for reason to blame the woman for being there, rather than her assailants who are – as sentient beings – morally responsible for her treatment? The question is rhetorical mainly because I prefer not to speak aloud the answer.

Hoft’s analysis of Logan’s brutalization is at least to some extent morally distinguishable from Rosen’s. Rosen explicitly said that Logan got what she deserved, which implied that her attackers were in some sense justified in raping her. Hoft merely implied – out of ignorance – that Logan’s naïveté caused what happened to her. Both reactions, however, were borne of the same misguided impulse to assume that a perceived political enemy is responsible for whatever tragedy befalls them. I find Hoft’s remarks to be materially indistinguishable from Markos Moulitsas’ widely condemned “screw them” remarks concerning the American contractors who were brutally murdered in Iraq, or the remarks of many of Roman Polanski’s defenders who always seemed to want to focus on the choices made by a 13-year-old girl and not the monster who forcibly sodomized her.

When a circumstance like this occurs, I would hope that human decency – not political correctness, mind you, but simple human decency – would compel commentators (conservative commentators in particular) to confine themselves to words of comfort and solace for the victim and her friends and family. All of us at times in the blogosphere have succumbed to the tendency to troll for controversy or to be the lone voice with the “edgy” or contrarian opinion on the hot button story of the day; I hope that upon further reflection, Jim Hoft will realize that succumbing to that temptation in the context of a story like this was beneath him, and recant.

COMMENTS

  • fleshbomb

    I completely disagree. Jim’s story was spot on. It was not a “blame the victim” story.

    Rather, it was an article written, in my opinion, not about the sexual assault itself, but about the pc culture that our media is obsessed about.

    To say that Hoft’s article was “to some extent morally distinguishable from Rosen?s.” is utter stupidity.

    You lose all credibility with that line. He wasn’t “blaming the victim” he was pointing out that liberal pc fantasies can lead to such atrocities.

    Next.

    • WY_Cowboy

      Next.

    • Leon H. Wolf

      Doesn’t encompass calling me stupid because you can’t comprehend what I wrote. Toodles.

    • SoFiMil

      1. take a look at the screen-name

      2. first-time post

      3.explicitly calling the well-spoken diarist “stupid.”

      • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

        ;)

        • SoFiMil

          It appears offending parties no longer get the tell-all strike-through indicator, which was the first thing I looked for.

      • SoFiMil

        4. The cavalier comment title,

        The poster is a fraud.

      • Vannek

        Is this BG, Gateway Pundit’s attack dog, defending Hoft from afar?

        When I read the GP post, I took it as nothing more than a gleeful smack at liberal journalists… at the expense of a human being who suffered an undeserved attack.

  • WY_Cowboy

    I hope the Grace of the Lord comforts and heals Ms. Logan and her family and friends. I say special prayers for her husband. As a husband myself, my heart really aches for him. Ms. Logan needs all of the support she can get, and so does her husband.

    • Brian Faughnan

      NT

  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Jacobson get2djnow

    And we know this because every report about what actually happened makes clear that no rape occurred. Still, something awful happened to her. I wish her a speedy recovery, which is what Hoft should do, and then walk away.

    • WY_Cowboy

      I’ll start praying for you too.

      • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Jacobson get2djnow

        Thank you.

  • http://kevin-wardsworld.blogspot.com/ kevinaw2

    I was pondering writing something on his comments, but your post here hits it on the head. It’s about common humanity, not politics

  • Finrod

    In every case where a woman (and a man too for that matter) is violated without their consent, the entire blame goes on the one(s) doing the violating. Period.

    • rickbull
    • bass_man

      Hear Hear!

  • jerry39

    But I have to agree with your sentiment –

    “simple human decency – would compel commentators (conservative commentators in particular) to confine themselves to words of comfort and solace for the victim and her friends and family”

    Thats always correct, and I am still seeing red over the media’s snow job over there. Especially CBS covering it up. I have contempt and loathing for “the media.” But decency gives makes me feel for this woman, and I cant blame her for the criminal and immoral actions of others – or even go down that road. Its just not a valid expression of the dignity of this person – no matter their ideology. I do wonder if she supports CBS’s suppression of the story for political reasons, but not in a hostile way, more it makes me feel even more sorry for her if she does.

    But there is also the sense of this crazy unspoken alliance the left has with radical islam, that the left will remain silent as to their atrocities until their combined efforts destroy western society and judeo/christian values and then they will fight it out betwen them as to a socialist utopea or an Islamic state. So war is hell and I am not going to write somebody off for losing his decency at a time when the media can be so discpicable, but I wont condone it eiher.

    • Locked and Loaded
      • jerry39
  • throwback59

    (as much as is possible) we should remember this attack as Congress debates allowing women as front line troops. The horrors that befell Logan would be visited upon any female soldier captured by Third World soldiers & civilians. Their treatment of male service members is bad enough, I shudder to think of the treatment women would get.
    I look forward to seeing Lara back on the job soon.

    • SoFiMil

      Anderson Cooper getting beaten up is one thing. Torture is worse. A sexual assault on any man or woman (and far more often it’s women) is far far worse. My prayers are with Ms. Logan.

      • biglarryk56

        Let’s not forget FOX News journalists Greg Palkot and Olaf Wiig who wer also severely beaten in Cairo doing their jobs as well…but of course, the idiot MSM kinda buried that one, didn’t they, because it was the hated FOX News reporters who got what they deserve,right?

  • conservvoter

    The blame does fall on CBS. It wasn’t her belief system that almost got her killed, it was theirs.

    I do think you’re being a bit harsh on Hoft though.

  • sheila

    Once again the holier-than-thou new-born “conservatives” bring down the PC hammer on anyone who violates their personal interpretation of reality. Well kudos to you, Mr. Wolf, for noting you’re not Erickson. How noble and up front of you. There are many of us, who were conservatives long before some of you suddenly moderated your liberalism after 9/11, who believe that racial and sexual differences are biological reality, and that women do not belong in certain professions or situations. Any Western woman assuming her professional credentials or paid “security forces” will protect her from the local culture during a violent uprising is naive, at best. It is precisely her belief system – i.e. liberalism, feminism, and multiculturalism – which got her sexually violated and almost killed. It is your belief system – classic liberalism and feminism – that is condemning anyone, including Hoft, who recognizes that by Muslim Egyptian standards, she was asking for what she got. By their beliefs in their country (in which almost 90 percent of women suffer clitoridectomies and similar numbers, both local and foreign, report being sexually harassed) her very presence in public, in what they consider revealing clothes, signaled her availability. Yes, reality sucks. She ignored it at her peril. Did she “deserve” her ordeal? Of course not. Should it be a surprise, given the situation? Of course not. Good intentions are just dandy, in the best of all possible worlds. In this one, recognizing sexual, racial, and cultural differences matters. She ignored these, to her cost.

    Now go ahead and decry my right-wing intolerance and hatred, while ignoring the carefully-worded logic of my response. You may operate on emotion; I prefer reason – I’m a conservative.

    • hoosierteacher

      …blame women for getting raped. The woman, regardless of her beliefs, was doing her job (a dangerous one) and took precations. Despite that, she was brutaly attacked. It is no worse or better than if a man was risking his life to pursue his journalistic profession. As with the murder of Pearle, this was a horrific crime against a member of the press (whether we like the press or not).

      This wasn’t “good intentions”; this was a reporter doing her job.

      This isn’t being holier than thou, pal. This is common decency. Your intolerance and hatred isn’t right or left wing, its just pathetic.

      • chipbennett

        Initially, my biggest problem with Jim’s post was that it was horribly-timed. Even if he were right (and, I don’t believe that he is), we have yet to reach the appropriate time to start laying such blame.

        First, the mob of 200 sub-humans who attacked her are fully and solely responsible for their actions. Period. End of story.

        Second, I have seen zero evidence to corroborate the assertion that Logan was in any way ignorant of the risks she was taking in the performance of her job. She had a security detail, but clearly it wasn’t large enough. (By the way, that would be the fault of her employer, CBS, not the fault of Logan herself.)

        Rather than comparing Jim’s post to Nir Rosen, I would compare it to the Left’s knee-jerk, blame-Palin reaction to the Giffords shooting.

      • Scope

        and post what they do. Some seem to think that they have an ability to change the minds and hearts of these kinds of people. Some seem to think that if they use intellectual words, and logic that they can change the minds of these people. Intellectual discussion can only be had with the less than radical. This is a radical that you have given credibility to, simply by trying to fight something that you will never penetrate, change the minds of, or out debate. Even Reagan recognized that there are some that must just go their own way. We are not this desperate for votes. Why ever are you trying to explain the incident, that the poster surely knows, probably better than you? Why do we keep doing this junk?

      • voicefromthevoid

        Who are you to tell us that because Logan was victim we all have to stfu and keep silence about horrible misinformation and indoctrination wave that drowns this country? “She was doing her job” you say, but it was exactly her job to misinform us by the very fact of her doing this. She was trying to indirectly reassert that moslems are peaceful and islam is religion of peace by her own example. Well, reality backfired and proved otherwise, that always happen when someone start to calculate his/her behavior not using reality but some ideologically twisted virtual world.

        No one deserves this. Nor she deserved. She is not to blame for what was happening there. But she has to share blame for all such crimes that happen when anyone indoctrinated and misinformed puts herself into harm’s way. She worked actively to promote this indoctrination, she relentlessly spreaded her propaganda, she shares the blame as co-conspirator for all those who were harmed because of this including herself and for all who will be harmed in the future. I pray to God for her recovery and I’m asking Him to let her see the light and remedy all the terrible harm he has done by whitewashing islam.

        • hoosierteacher

          I guess in your twisted world, you would say that you are praying to God for the recovery of the congresswomen who was shot, but you just HAVE to add a prayer that she sees the light for being a democrat too.

          Politics comes to a screahing halt when people are victims of a violent crime. I don’t care if its someone on my side of the fence or not.

          When you have to say that your so sorry for what happened to the victim, “BUT…”, you’ve lost the highground to speak on anything with any level of credibility. Grow up, and do some praying for yourself.

          (How would you feel if your sister, mother, or daughter was raped, and some idiot on some website said they were praying for your loved one, but also praying that she “has to share the blame for all such crimes that happen when anyone indoctrinated and misinformed puts herself into harm?s way”. After all, your loved one is a conservative that favors draconian cuts in spending that led to the criminals not having any other options in life? Yeah; sounds damned ridiculous.

          Grow up, or just keep on typing so that one of the contributers bans you.

          • CincoSolas_del_Bronx
    • Leon H. Wolf

      OK, there sparky. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

      • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

        At least she didn’t call you a moby.

    • Bill S

      HEHE HAHAHAHAHAH BWAHAHAHAHAH

      :gasp:

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      :snort:

      wait…

      AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

      :sniff: That’s the best laugh I’ve had in days.

      I won’t “decry” anything, but I am sorry for your utter lack of intelligence. It’s a pitiable situation.

    • http://kevin-wardsworld.blogspot.com/ kevinaw2

      I don’t care about the so called values of native Egyptians and whether she violated local custom. Such a custom is utterly barbaric and anyone subjected to such a violent initiation into a “culture” is not justly entitled to any consideration by more civilized people. Ignorance is not an invitation to assault. Any rationalizing of such act is nothing but a false pretense to indulge the basest instincts.

  • pamela1631

    Rape is irrevocable. The results are profound and the aftermath can haunt the victim possibly forever. Recovery of self does not happen for many, and for those that don’t , seek to silence the pain in drink, drugs or death.

    It’s a club no woman wants to be a card carrying member of.
    There are too many members as it is and blaming the victim no matter the circumstances in which the assault occurred should not be tolerated. Shame on those casting blame on Lara.

    How well she recovers is up to her. Strength, endurance and support will help. Grace of God will help. Tracking down , castrating and pounding the rapists into sand, works for me.

  • Jack_Savage

    First, saying that she was there because of her job and that her belief system had nothing to do with the fact that she was assaulted is fine, but then constraining commentators to only offer words of comfort is having things both ways, in my view. Either it was part of the danger of her job and should be discussed, or it wasn’t, and shouldn’t.

    I would agree, however, that having covered that area for quite some time, she had to be aware that in a culture that treats women as little more than property this assault was surely a possibility. The fact that she even *had* a security detail indicates that this was the case, and her comments to her friends indicating that this will not stop her also indicates that she had considered this possibility and her reaction to it should it occur.

    I have to believe that her colleagues in the media who were on the scene soft-pedaled the situation. The whole “Times Square without the party hats” view of the media was being sold to everyone, and if the “reporters are being detained and beaten to within an inch of their lives” theme had been more prevalent, she may not have gone.

    Her mistake – not her fault, but her error in an event which was out of control for the most part – is not a liberal belief system, but a belief that, in this particular situation, the bad guys were the authorities and the good guys were the protesters. She perhaps believed that if she stayed away from pro-Mubarek supporters or the military, she would be safe, or at least safer.

    The thing we need to look for, which will either support Hoft’s position or undermine it, will be her assessment of the situation in its aftermath. If she comes out and says her attackers were simply common, worthless, thug rapists, then I would say that Leon’s post it pretty much on target, and our comments should be limited to words of comfort. If her assessment is some sort justification along the lines of “they couldn’t help it, they were just doing what they had been taught”, as if they were animals who turned on their captor, or “they thought I was a Jew, who has raped their land and humiliated them in warfare, which would mean that I deserved it”, then parts of Hoft’s posts would have to be viewed as accurate.

    Right now, we just don’t know, so words of comfort and seeking further information would seem to be the best route to take, which I believe is the point of the diary.

    • Leon H. Wolf

      I agree that there are facts which, if they come to light, might make Logan more culpable or Hoft’s point more plausible. However, those facts are not available to us now. So why is Hoft saying it? The reasonable explanation is that that’s what he wants this story to be. Which is a problem for me.

      • Leon H. Wolf

        “Culpable” is not really the right word to use here, as I reject the premise that one can be truly “culpable” in their own sexual assault. It might be the case, however, that Hoft has a point about Logan’s blindness to the evils of Islam, which is what I think you were trying to say anyway.

        • voicefromthevoid

          You say: “I reject the premise that one can be truly ?culpable? in their own sexual assault.”

          Reject it all you want but this happen time and again. Embolden the thugs who are inclined to do assaults like that, support them, whitewash them, promote their acceptance into civilization and inevitable will happen inevitably. Why? Because in their own eyes when you support them, you support what they are doing, then you support this and you are getting what you was working and calling for.

          • Leon H. Wolf

            Nor do I really think this is the right political party for you but I don’t get to make that call.

          • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

            So are the other women-hating comments in this thread.

            Talk about the ills of society all you want, but never in the same discussion about a woman that was just physically and sexually assaulted.

            I can’t believe there are still so many people out there with the she deserved it mindset.

          • voicefromthevoid

            women-hating. If you consciously making this substitution you are no better that any lying leftie.

            What I’m saying is that indoctrinator who misleads the people to think that dangerous situation is safe, in that case that moslems are largely peaceful and in all respects are just like us, and that it’s pretty safe to be among them, that we must accept them into our society, that indoctrinator is guilty in crime as co-conspirator to those rapists. Should indoctrinator be so stupid as to believe in his/her own telltales, the worse.

            Logan was such indoctrinator, that’s my point. Hopefully she will stop being one.

          • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

            There’s no better example of this than many of the comments in this thread.

          • Leon H. Wolf

            she was to blame for her own rape. This based on your perception of how she behaved and acted which is totally not rooted in fact and completely ignores everything I said in my post. Additionally, you ascribe “indoctrination” efforts to Logan without the slightest hint of any evidence. But I will tell you what: you hit the contact form with some evidence that Logan said all the stuff in this comment, and we will consider letting you back in, depending on the quality of your apology for suggesting that she got what was coming to her.

          • Jack_Savage

            Even though it makes me feel a bit slimy to even be thought of as considering your point, can you give specific examples of where Logan was an “indoctrinator”? Or “whitewashed Islam”?

            And if a person actually were doing that, and were murdered by someone in the name of Islam, your point is that they deserved it? Murder, or rape, is OK just to prove someone wrong? So we can say “told you so”?

          • CincoSolas_del_Bronx

            in a sense:

            And judging by what I know about their methods, there are plenty of fifth column types among conservatives, some like RINO, some posing as real ones just to seed FUD and confusion to divide the movement and incite internal struggle and some sleepers, by word and by deed indistingushable from real people but waiting for their time to strike in the back.

            One perennial problem with suppressing the truth in unrighteousness is that it so quickly jumps back into view, with fangs bared, from another corner of reality.

          • jerry39

            are trying to say is not that she is culable becasue she knew the risks. Not that she was culbable becasue she willfully ignored the risk either. But culbable because she was intentionally decieving other people about the risk.

            Its a wierd analogy, but say Joe knows Old man Smith is a molestor, but he somehow benefits from people having a good opinion of Smith, so he tells Johny that Old man Smith is totally safe and harmless and he goes in and pets his dog all the time. So Johny goes in thinking its safe and gets molested. Thats what they are alleging all liberal media does to the America people with regard to Muslims. What there saying in this case was that Joe tries to prove Smith is safe by going into Smiths house himself, but he takes his big brother with him for protection. Smith knocks out big brother and molests Joe, who they dont think we should feel sorry for because Joe was only there trying to get others molested in the first place.

            I think the problem is you cant put that on Logan personally without more than just the fact that she is a reporter. Its just too much. I know squat about Cairo Eqypt, but its a tourist destination and business community I believe, and surely Western women have been able to travel their without getting gang raped. To me the big complicity of the media in general is the cover up to maintain their storyline – not that they alwasy knew gang rapes were the reality before their storyline ever began. So I dont agree with their positions, but the position is not as harsh as it sounds if you accept their premise.

        • Jack_Savage

          I tend to agree with you in being critical of Hoft’s posts, because at first blush they struck me as being not much different than the leftist tweets after Rep. Giffords was shot, regardless of how true they may be. We simply don’t know enough about what Logan believes to associat this with her belief system, even IF her belief system could somehow be said to have played a part in her assault.

          Here is what bugs me, though, and I may well end up arguing against what I just wrote. I think we all regard rape as a crime which is different from other crimes, for a whole host of very good reasons. Even those in jail hold rapists and molesters in special contempt. Rape is utterly horrible and repugnant, and the crime is in a despicable class all by itself…

          …and yet Lara Logan seemed to know it was a very real possibility, and evidently thought the risk of being raped worth it. Why? Is the crime of rape not as traumatic and unspeakable as we believe? Hardly. Should we grant her more sympathy than the soldier who is paralyzed or tortured or has both legs blown off? Although these are horrible outcomes, deserving of all our sympathy, the soldier knew they were distinct possibilities.

          Hoft has made a point without knowing he made it. The issue is not that Logan was doe-eyed and naive, which you argued against quite well. The point Hoft made accidentally was that whatever Logan’s political belief system, she apparently believed that being raped was just one of many occupational hazards, and came with the territory. The question is *why*? Where did this belief come from?

          I simply cannot agree with the premise that rape as a possible bad outcome relating to one’s work is acceptable, and this is the basis of my opposition to women in combat positions. As we know, however, leftists have led the charge to allow women to be put into military situations where, if captured, rape is actually a *likely* outcome. They would surely lead the charge to allow women like Logan to continue to do what they are doing, despite what just happened to her.

          When looked at this way, it is difficult to argue that Logan’s sexual assault is anything but the culmination of the left’s desire to have women be able to do any work available to a man. Hoft argues (if you can call his posts an argument) that her personal liberal beliefs led her to a situation where she was raped, where I would be more likely to entertain a proposition that there is corporate responsibility for her assault, both with a Middle Eastern culture that treats women as property – of far *less* value than a man – and a Western culture that treats women as *no better* or different than men, even having them possibly be subjected to horrific violence all for the sake of “equality”. Although the perpetrators are ultimately responsible, we can’t ignore the effect of culture in the matter.

          I believe that the quest for purity on the left dehumanizes in the name of an ideology – partial birth abortion is OK because the alternative is abortion restrictions, letting the mentally ill roam the streets and shoot Congresswomen is more acceptable than restrictions on anyone’s civil liberties, and having rape as an occupational hazard is worth it in the name of equality.

          Much to ponder.

          • Leon H. Wolf

            There is a time and place to ponder whether the risks attendant to certain professions (e.g., combat soldier, middle eastern correspondent) are such that women should not be placed in them. I tend to agree on the former, and disagree on the latter, but these are matters on which reasonable people can disagree.

            Where we are wandering astray, is that the discussion Hoft is provoking here is not about that. It is his belief that Lara Logan’s liberal belief system (which he uses here metonymously for ignorance of the dangers of Islam) got her killed. That’s just a preposterous thing to say, especially at this juncture. A rioting mob nearly got her killed. Show some [redacted]ing decency, man. That’s all I’m saying.

            I can promise you that there is going to be a thorough internal review of CBS’s security policies and procedures after this that is probably going to ponder a lot of the questions that are asked in your comment but there really is no call to put it in the light Hoft did.

            As far as Logan’s own personal belief system is concerned, the fact that she considered it an acceptable occupational hazard I am sure did not make it more pleasant to endure.

          • Jack_Savage

            It really isn’t too much to ask for us to give a human being time to heal and pray for as full a recovery as can be hoped for given the situation. Like I said, Hoft’s posts made me uncomfortable and struck me as just a little unseemly and premature, much like the tweets after the Giffords shooting. The more I think about it, the more I believe what you said needed to be said, and we should do what should have been done after Tuscon. Pray, comfort, wait, gather facts, analyze.

            I have three daughters and a wife, all of whom are balls of fire and don’t give much of a damn about someone who tells them what they should and should not do. Again, much to ponder.

  • immortal_fish

    I spent a few years doing volunteer work at a local Women’s Shelter. Although it was rewarding, it was equally taxing and I have both literal and figurative scars for it.

    Mr. Wolf, I respectfully disagree. The best way for a woman to be safe is to remain out of harm’s way. There should be no shame in stating this painfully obvious fact.

    This is not like the Big Dan’s rape case aka Jodie Foster’s “The Accused.” A woman should be able to enter a public place and be served without harassment in America. Logan was not in America.

    Logan made a conscious choice to endanger herself by going to Egypt just as much as Nick Berg endangered himself by making a conscious choice to go to Iraq. They knew these were dangerous, lawless places. They went anyway. I would like to think that their employers counseled them about their decision that they ultimately made for themselves.

    This is not to say that Logan deserved her fate. Being held accountable for the decisions you make doesn’t necessarily mean you deserve whatever outcome they lead to. I chose to enter my vehicle this morning in order to get to work. If someone had T-boned me on the way and I was killed, I wouldn’t have deserved it. Yet it would have been an unfortunate conclusion that stemmed from the choice I alone made.

    I do not think that Logan’s ill-fated choice means she deserved what happened to her. Hopefully, that is what Jim Hoft thinks too. I would like to think you entertained this possibility before arriving at your conclusion and would be interested to hear why you rejected this possibility before you wrote your piece. What was it that convinced you Hoft believes Logan deserved assault?

    • Leon H. Wolf

      I am just a big old liberal who has mistakenly been volunteering on Republican campaigns since before he was elementary school but I think women should be allowed to work as foreign correspondents for the BBC, CNN and/or CBS. You know, if this was Anderson Cooper and he was really and seriously injured rather than just mildly bruised I’d be saying the same thing here. The salient facts are that someone got injured doing their job right reaction is to express sympathy, not blame because they’re a liberal.

      And, I drew the reasonable conclusion based on necessary inferences. Why would Hoft jump to this conclusion without facts?

      • voicefromthevoid

        It’s a fact that her correspondence and line of work was whitewashing islam, no?

        And, IIRC, it’s an old and fundamental liberal belief that freedom amounts to impunity. Unfortunately or fortunately it is not. You make wrong choice and reality hits you hard. And for reality it does not make a slightest shadow of difference why you have made that choice. But it should make a whole world of difference for you.

      • rickbull

        you are a compassionate conservative.

        We have a lot of people here and in the MSM/LSM using Cindy Sheehan logic. Ms. Logan chose a risky profession, but I take a big risk every morning driving to work in Nashville traffic. Ms. Logan did not “ask for” what happened to her, but I am sure that she knew it was a possible occupational hazard.

        It happened, and I do believe that if they thought they could get away with it, the media would be blaming George W. Bush for it.

        Just like a soldier injured or killed in war (another risky profession), Lara Logan deserves our sympathy and our prayers — and the ones to blame are the ones who did this to her. End of story.

      • immortal_fish

        “I am just a big old liberal who has mistakenly been volunteering on Republican campaigns since before he was elementary school”

        Where, exactly, did I write anything to that affect in my initial post? I have no clue what your personal politics are, though I did presume you are conservative leaning, given that you are able to publish articles here.

        Could we please re-engage critical thinking and dispense with Alinsky’s fifth rule?

        “I think women should be allowed to work as foreign correspondents for the BBC, CNN and/or CBS.”

        Where, exactly, did I write that women should not report from abroad? I wrote that they should be advised of and acknowledge that they may be subjecting themselves to potential danger. Shouldn’t they understand the reality of that possibility?

        A press badge is not a cape that grants the bearer invincibility and immortality.

        “You know, if this was Anderson Cooper and he was really and seriously injured rather than just mildly bruised I?d be saying the same thing here.”

        I am just about convinced that you merely skimmed my post and did not absorb it. Did you not see where I mentioned Nick Berg? Nick Berg was not a female.

        “The salient facts are that someone got injured doing their job right reaction is to express sympathy, not blame because they?re a liberal.”

        I agree that all cases like this should begin with sympathy and condolences first and foremost. I do not disagree with you (and I doubt Hoft disagrees too).

        However, does this opinion of yours not suggest that that should be the total breadth of discussion and it should end there? Should we be disallowed to talk about what went wrong and how it could have been prevented? You cannot mean this, yet I cannot interpret your words to mean anything else. In that event, we are doomed to see this tragedy like this repeat itself.

  • EagleWatcher

    This poor woman was attacked by 200 men who have been taught to view women as second class human beings.

    The MSM is already trying to excuse the act of these 200 men in an AP article saying that the sexual abuses are the result of joblessness and boredom. R U kidding me?????????????????

    • voicefromthevoid

      Having their way many of them would dream to see American Khaliphate proclaimed today. And trust me, they would love the consequences until it will happen to them.

    • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

      And in my experience, the sexism is actually WORSE on the left than on the right.

      Those MSMers fancy themselves a bunch of enlightened, progressive, liberated people — but their eagerness to be making excuses for men who behave worse than animals and victimize women speaks volumes about their deep-seated misogyny.

  • WarEagle01

    Jim should have left this alone. I understand what he was trying to do, but ultimately his post was unnecessary and hurtful.

  • america1st

    but only the most bizarre of the SM crowd deliberately seek to be hurt as part of a relationship – much less with a mob of 200 strangers. Clearly the focus should be on her attackers and SeeBS’ security failings.

    Look for more of this sort of thing as the muzzie brothers take over Egypt. The RoP ? is incompatible with the 21st Century, indeed it is incompatible with even the most basic tenets of civilized behavior of the 19th. It is folly to treat with these mad gibbering fanatics. The only thing they respect is force and the time is fast approaching where we will not be able to apply it without horrible loss – if indeed it has not already come, thanks to the leftist morons such as those running SeeBS.

  • barleycorn

    I understand that you disagree with what he wrote and you have eloquently stated the counter argument.

    But why ask for an apology? Can’t two well meaning adults disagree about basic issues without apologies being necessary?

    Another poster here said that what Hoft wrote was “hurtful”. Hurtful to whom? And what standard should be applied? Most of the news is hurtful to someone but it is still news. Much political commentary is hurtful, but in a free society opinions can be expressed even if they are delivered in a less than diplomatic way.

    It may not be pleasant to consider, but there are larger issues at stake here than one person’s well being.

    I don’t think Hoft owes anyone an apology.

    I think he does owe his readers facts to back up his theories if he wants to be taken seriously.

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
      • barleycorn

        I actually don’t “hit” anyone, female or male.

        Which of my comments lead to your inquiry?

        • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

          Because it would be hurtful? Hurtful to whom? And what standard should be applied?

    • Leon H. Wolf

      And not just an avatar displayed on the glowing box in your living room.

      Hope that information is helpful in answering your question. Give a man a fish, teach a man to fish, etc.

      • barleycorn

        And what happened to Lara Logan in Cairo will be happening to our wives, sisters, daughters, and mothers from New York to San Diego in a few years if we don’t focus on this most important fact:

        Egypt, a vitally important country in the Middle East, is falling into the hands of people who despise our country, our culture, our laws, and our way of life.

        And our dominant media is silent.

        • Leon H. Wolf

          And it doesn’t have a damn thing to do with the appropriateness of Hoft’s post.

        • http://westforwestwing2012.com heartlander

          I guess this is why my opposition to Islam is so fiercely, deeply personal and emotional. As a woman, I feel not only disgust and repulsion, but gut-level, visceral fear.

      • PaladinLostHour

        … people tend to be much more accepting of the rationale behind one’s argument when delivered without unnecessary condescension.

        You make good points Leon, but your answers to pushback have the tone of the smartest man in the room forced to explain himself to chimps. The former is doubtful but conceivably true; the second surely is not.

    • E Pluribus Unum
  • jaxinbotox1

    I think that in fact, placing blame on people who put themselves in danger is right and correct. It should not take away from the blame lain on those to attacked her though. If she had enough information to know that there was a high (5% sounds like a high enough chance) chance she would be assaulted or worse, then I would say that it takes much off the sympathy I will feel for her.

    The drunk who dies of liver disease. The smoker who gets lung cancer. The kid who runs from the cops and dies in a crash. The dirty cop who gets killed in a drug deal gone bad. I am sorry, but these people do deserve sympathy, but the level of sympathy would not and should not ever be as much as for those who were not complicit in the outcome. If what he wrote about the situation on the ground is true, and she had every reason to know all those points, and to finish out the list, she was only there to twist the story for her political beliefs, then my sympathy for her is reduced. I think that is a morally correct thing.

    • Leon H. Wolf

      And I can think of no better exemplar than this comment. If you can’t see the difference between alcoholism and smoking on the one hand, and Lara Logan doing her job on the other, then you need to seek help. Your logic bone is broken, perhaps irreparably.

      It is not Lara Logan’s job to assess the defcon level on the ground everywhere CBS sends her. THat’s CBS’s job. Her job is to look into the camera and relay what is going on on the ground. If you want to grouse about someone’s negligence here, place it where it belongs.

      Finally, a lot of people here seem to be of the assumption that Lara Logan is politically and professionally like Greg Sargent, only on television. I can pretty much guarantee you that her political beliefs and professionalism are materially indistinguishable from Megyn Kelly’s. Your (perhaps understandable) hatred for the media has blinded you to the existence of any facts actually associated with this case.

      Either go read up so you stop beclowning yourself or get lost.

      • jaxinbotox1

        I can also imagine that she was on the job with the express intent to twist the news to show the American People not the truth on the ground, but to show it as something it was not. If that is the case, then my feeling of sympathy for her will and should be reduced.

        • Leon H. Wolf

          You’re here presenting it as fact without the slightest shred of evidence. You don’t even have evidence that she has done any such thing *in the past*. You’re just hoping it’s true so you’ll feel justified in not caring about what happened to her.

          • hotspur

            say without proof. We need to take the high road and be people who require evidence, not rhetoric. I expect rushing to judgment from the left, not us.

        • jaxinbotox1

          To Escape Blame, Be a Victim, Not a Hero, New Study Finds

          ScienceDaily (Feb. 16, 2011) ?

          • CincoSolas_del_Bronx
          • jaxinbotox1

            I am simply me.

    • Icythus

      For being involved in nations like Saudi Arabia and the former Yugoslavia.

      For all the misogynist cretins this thread has brought swarming out of the woodwork, lets break it down into simple, easy-to-understand terms: NO WOMAN EVER DESERVES TO BE RAPED. FOR WHATEVER REASON. FURTHERMORE, RAPE AND SEXUAL ASSAuLT ARE THE SOLE FAULT OF THE RAPIST. ALL THE TIME. EVERY TIME.

      The fact that rape is still a common occurrence in some parts of the world is proof of only two things:

      1) There are too many evil men.
      2) There are too few hanging trees.

      That righteous men have failed to remedy the former by way of the latter does not cause any blame to fall on Lara Logan for her horrific ordeal. Our prayers should be with Ms. Logan and her family, and with the nation of Egypt as it is caught on the knife’s edge.

      • Bill S
      • jaxinbotox1

        .

        • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908
        • Icythus

          When you rescind your assertion above that a rape victim can be in any way complicit with her rape, and make loud noises of apology and self-abasement, to Leon in particular. HEARTFELT noises and abasement, thank you!

          Otherwise, go suck on a stovepipe.

          • jaxinbotox1

            . You chose to see that in my statement, I guess because I did not just simply follow the rule of any victim is automatically pure. Now I am remembering why I do not frequent this site much.

          • Bill S
          • Locked and Loaded

            nt

  • NeoKong

    Photobucket

    His name was Timothy Treadwell. He was a bear enthusiast, photographer and film maker who was known for his up close and dramatic film about grizzly bears.
    To make a long story short…well read for yourself.

    In October 2003, Treadwell and his girlfriend, physician assistant Amie Huguenard, visited Katmai National Park. In the film Grizzly Man, Werner Herzog states that Amie feared bears and felt deeply uncomfortable in their presence. Her final journal entries indicated that she wanted to be away from Katmai.[7] Treadwell chose to set his campsite near a salmon stream where grizzlies commonly feed in the fall. Treadwell was in the park later in the year than usual[2], at a time when bears struggle to gain as much food as possible before winter, and limited food supplies cause them to be more aggressive than in other months. Food was scarce that fall, so the grizzly bears were even more aggressive than usual.[8]

    You guessed it. They both got munched. Not much left really.
    Should we blame the bear….?
    Or was there slightly a little more a little responsibility to place in Treadwell and his girl friend’s column ?
    Can’t a guy just camp out next to a salmon stream in grizzly country without everybody laying blame at his feet. After all… it was his job.

    There are some places you just shouldn’t go sometimes. To do so anyways is to take an unnecessary risk that could go south pretty damn fast.
    She went swimming in an alligator pond.

    Let me put it another way in case you think I am merely trying to be edgy or heartless. What if it wasn’t Egypt ?
    What if instead there there was a huge prison riot in Mexico ?
    Lara Logan decides to do a report from inside the prison.
    Would that really be a good idea…?

    She risked her own safety in a situation that clearly had no guarantee of safety.
    I myself would not have walked into that crowd no matter how many people were with me.

    • Icythus

      NeoKong, I cannot believe you are placing the same amount of moral culpability on humans, rational beings with a God-given innate capacity to distinguish right from wrong, as you would on grizzly bears, mere animals lacking an immortal soul driven by instinct and basic needs. Are we humans no better than animals, unaccountable for our moral actions? Or are you saying that Arab men are no better than animals, which opens up an entirely new can of worms?

      And she didn’t “walk into that crowd”. As Leon pointed out, she and her crew were out in the open, and deliberately surrounded and attacked. Stop pushing a false narrative.

      • NeoKong

        What are you talking about…?

        Obviously the point went right over your head.
        It was not about humans and souls versus animals blah bluh bluh.
        It was about the consequences of making risky decisions.

        Do you not have eyes ?
        Lara Logan on her own free will waded right into the middle of a full blown riot.
        You understand that right.
        It was not some peaceful demonstration by people just yearning to be free. IT WAS A RIOT.
        Cars and buildings burning.
        Hundreds of people beaten and killed.(Don’t leave that part out)
        Angry and frenzied mobs attacking each other.
        News crews getting beaten left and right.
        She had no reasonable expectation of safety and made a terribly poor decision.
        She chose to be there and it has nothing to do with the word deserve or not. That would imply some sort of karmic justice when it was simply a matter of bringing risk upon herself unnecessarily.
        She did not have to be there.

        If I had to go with one situation or the other I would choose to take my chances with the bears.
        At least in the end someone would get a good meal.

  • JadedByPolitics

    should never happen to any woman/man/child I believe rape is worse then any other crime against a human being, it is something a person lives with the rest of their lives, whereas if you are killed well its over. NO ONE asks for it! NO ONE wants it to happen to ANYONE, except for Nir Rosen who not only said she deserved it but wished it on Anderson Cooper as well. Lara should not have went back, job or not, she was separated from her security and camera crew about 5 days earlier and had a discussion with Charlie Rose about her safety and going back, she went back and that was a decision she will think about the entirety of the rest of her life.

    I went to CPAC last week, I knew I wanted to be down in DC late with my friends and I had two choices, the train (two actually w/a transfer) and driving. I hate driving in DC, I am unfamiliar with it and my husband does all the driving when we go there. I also hate taking the trains late at night by myself because bad things happen (you have to follow local blogs to know because the WAPO really doesn’t do those local stories) and standing on a platform by myself at 9:30 at night changing trains had to much danger to my well being for me to do that, so I drove myself. I made a choice to protect myself, now I know its her job, but dammit she knew those dangers, she knew those people and I wish in my heart of hearts she had chosen her safety over a damn story, I wished CBS, after seeing what happened to other journalists over there had chosen differently and my stomach turns at the thought of what happened to her. When the story broke I spread that story far and wide, w/Rosen comments to show the ANIMALS that infest that part of the world.

    I want there to be a world where there are not ANIMALS like that in it but that is a pipe dream and to deny otherwise is to put yourself in danger. I don’t want women to have “no go” area’s for any type of job, whether militarily or otherwise but the facts are that it is dangerous for women in certain jobs and to let the PC crowd continue to say “women can do anything/go anywhere” is to lead us down a path of insanity. BTW for any who don’t know I am a woman!

    In the end news stations, papers etc., are going to have to re-think how they cover stories in violent regions. I don’t know if that encompasses packs of journalists together with a large security detail or what but this abuse cannot stand. I would also add, the media needs to be mindful of becoming the story ie: celebrating as if it is their own democracy march and just TELLING THE STORY!

    • barleycorn

      Obviously my comment below was meant as a response to this post by Jaded.

  • barleycorn

    From the heart and spot on.

    Thanks for posting this.

  • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

    The law of the jungle. There is no justice, no real pathos, and no real victim, except to the extent you might call a wildebeest calf being taken down by a lioness a victim. This was a vicious attack by primitive wild animals, do what wild animals do. You can find them on many American street corners after lights out.

    So, I think your opening comments were correct, Leon, for Jim Hoft imputed things, and attempted to politicize motives which are so above his pay grade to impute as to be laughable.

    As for lessons learned, only Ms Logan can know them for only she can know whether she believed, as Hoft implies, she was cavalier, or felt herself immune, or disregarded security advice. Only she can know whether she truly assumed the risk, or it was just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Bad joss. In the jungle sometimes, despite all precautions, bad things happen. Even in Detroit.

    I think that NeoKong’s candid story of a grizzly and a man in the wild was very apropos. All we can do is assume the proper pose for the injured (in this case) or the departed (in others).

    • Common_Cents

      They showed the video of her being confronted and warned, many of the protesters were not having foreign media in the square, period.

      I think today’s media have been ‘spoiled’ into being overconfident in walking into any situation and interview anyone in America without worry about safety(except an SEIU protest). The world is a dangerous place.

      • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
    • streetwise

      It’s one thing to have a security detail when there is a functioning government and police forces. In that case, the risk may be acceptable. (but it’s there)

      Even if she wanted to go, they should still have cancelled it.

      • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

        ..we’ll never know, but she does. That’s what matters. Ask Ernie Pyle, or a fellow you probably never heard of, Richard Harding Davis (WWI)

        • acat

          The security detail in both cases didn’t have the .. punch .. required for the jungle they headed into…

          Mew

      • itrytobenice

        If a typical manufacturing plant in America had treated the safety of its employees with this cavalier attitude, OSHA would have their heads on a pike.

        • NeoKong

          Good one.

    • NeoKong

      555
      N/T

  • jerry39

    There is a lot to discuss about this incident.

    CBS cover up. Can we makesure mainstream media recieves the black eye it deserves for this, and the whole charade of coverage down there. How many other atrocities went unreported? A composite of media deriliction should be made. I know I heard on Rush one reporter trying get the “celebrants” to cheer Obama’s role, and they all basically said buzz off Obama – but then the idiot concludes by stating how grateful they all were for Obama’s support.

    What this says about the role of “social conservatism” and the ability of countries to have meaningful democracies or republic’s if they do not have the foundational value of the rights granted by God that we have. The respect for the dignity of the human person. Viewed also vis-a-vie IRAQ as a democracy that murdered, terrorized and chased away their tiny Christian community that did in fact survive under the regime, brutal as it was. Or Africa – freed from their “opprressors” into a nightmare of muder, rape, disease, kidnapping, and starvation.

    Should we abondon a Bush Doctrine of promoting Democracy around the world, or should we more focused on promoting our own interests – which may indicate promotion of Democracy only in those areas where the population has a legitimate moral code.

    Certainly some wait and see is necesary – but there is a lot to talk about other than this issue.

  • benson1

    between what actually happened to Lara and the totally made up lies about the Giffords affair. Lara actually went into a situation and was horribly attacked. No one, not Palin, not Rush or any other Republican or conservative had anything to do with what happened to Giffords. It was a total fabrication spread by a desperate state run media to boost their boy in the white house.
    I have no quarrel with Hofts article. I don’t think he went over the line at all. We’re being put in harms way every day by the lies and PC attitude of the liberal press. Our country is in peril financially and physically because of their deception. Lara did not get what she deserved but she did get what should be expected from barbaric animals. The sad part is I doubt anyone at CBS cares as much about her or her recovery as what I’ve seen posted here. It just doesn’t fit their narrative of Islam the religion of peace.