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Scott Brown, Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Mark Kirk, and Lisa Murkowski are Cowardly Liberal Extremists

Support for taxpayer funding of abortion is outside the political mainstream in this country. Depending on the poll, between 60 and 75 per cent of Amerians oppose it (see here, here, and here). In other words, belief that the government ought to be in the business of funding abortions is roughly as mainstream as the belief that the United States Government was behind 9/11. Now, Planned Parenthood has tried mightily to avoid these results by dishonestly claiming that the funds they receive from the government aren’t used for abortions. This is one of the most idiotic arguments ever made since the defining characteristic of money is its fungibility. Nonetheless, as Lori noted earlier today, some percentage of people will be fooled by any idiotic argument – however, funding for Planned Parenthood is still soundly opposed by the American people by a 54-39 margin. Which is why it is a real mystery to find that it is supported by a 58-42 margin in the United States Senate.

It is inexcusable that these five Republicans in the Senate have embraced a position that is not only leftist but is outside the political mainstream on the left. It is as inexcusable (or worse) than Republicans publicly espousing trutherism. Not one of these five needs to take this extremist position in order to win election. The only explanation is that they really are outside the political mainstream.

These five alleged “Republicans” should be opposed in their next primaries by everyone, even libertarians. There is nothing libertarian about supporting the government spending hundreds of millions of dollars on Planned Parenthood. However you feel about abortion per se, neither Republicans nor Democrats should find refuge for supporting funding for Planned Parenthood from anywhere. We need to clean house of these faithless cowards so that this extremist position will no longer be “bipartisan” by any stretch of the imagination.

And by the way, Junior Casey and Joe Manchin, we are coming for you, too.

COMMENTS

  • Mike Ferguson
    • http://www.voteforteri2010.com teridavisnewman

      We didn’t want Mark Kirk in IL either but we had to choose between Mark Kirk or a known mob banker in Giannoulius so we held our noses and voted for Kirk but we are hoping to find a different Senator in 6 years and get rid of Durbin in 2014. We had no choice and we took the lesser of two evils. Kirk is a pariah to all good conservatives but the consensus among the conservatives was that putting Obama’s corrupt banker buddy in the Senate would be far worse. Getting rid of Durbin is our goal in 2014 and hopefully we will be able to get rid of Kirk in 2016. Judge Don Lowery was the correct choice for the Senate seat as the judge is a great Constitutional Conservative (and everything one could ever ask for in a Senator) but Kirk had 10 years of fundraising and moderate support that was an insurmountable advantage. Don’t think the conservatives in IL are happy about him because we aren’t–but we’re going to primary him in 2016.

      • acat

        What was in the water in Illinois in ’08? First the Dems nominate a Lt. Governor candidate who is a literal crook, and then nominate a Senate candidate who is an unindicted crook… Stranger than usual.

        Anyway, given how close Durkin came, running a very under-funded campaign against Durbin a couple elections back, I think Durbin could be defeated – but it would take the Illinois GOP insiders getting out of the way and actually supporting the nominee.

        I didn’t see significant Brady (R-Cand, Gov) support in Suburbia, which is where the race was lost. From where I’m sitting, the Illinois GOP is still a party in chaos.

        Mew

        • acat
        • adair

          Getting the Illinois GOP insiders out of the way and actually supporting the nominee.

          One wonders where the money goes that is sent to the Illinois GOP. They glance over the list of Democrat incumbents and just check off “will win again” and give absolutely no attention to candidates running against them.

          We had several good candidates for both Governor and Senator running in the Primaries. Kirk had been picked a year or so earlier by Fred Barnes in his magazine and on Fox News a time or two. He was the Establishment candidate, and the only one who got any party support.

          Durbin lucked out in ’08, sliding in on Obama’s coattails. He should have been pounded into the ground for his disgraceful “U.S. military are like Pol Pot or the Nazis” speech and subsequent crocodile-teary “apology.”

          It’s annoying to have to end conversations about our disgraceful politicians with, “Well, you have to remember, this is Illinois.”

    • http://www.resistnet.com/profile/semperfi sirjason

      They will always be around just like the poor in our midst. Why the RINOS choose to be in their political party and NOT vote for legislation presented and promoted by their party is baffling!

      Why in bloody hell do they NOT run as a progressive socialist and join them in the destruction of our Republic rather than oppose every bit of legislation of governance of the people, by the people and for the people?

  • http://www.mysimplehomegarden.com tbaleno

    They called two days ago asking for money. I told the person that I will not give him any money because he won’t defund planned parenthood.

    I hope he gets the message.

    • djvu

      Apparently he didn’t get your message. He will be easy to beat in the primairies. Unfortuneately, without Republican support he will be beaten by a democrat but ‘C’est vie’!!!!!!!

      • goodforall

        Scott brown is a turn coat-he did and said enough to get elected, then he went the totally liberal route. The rest on here are embarassments to the GOP and need to be voted out. We all have questions about the Murkowski election-something funny about all those write in votes.

        • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

          you might want to pull your brain out of mothballs.

          Who is going to be an acceptable Republican to in either MA or ME. Please list some names. Or just shut up. Brown is a disappointment only to those who paid no attention. He’s never been a rock ribbed conservative and he’s been very consistent since elected to the Senate. Would I prefer somebody to the right of Attila? Absolutely. Are we going to get someone to the right of Brown? I’m no expert on MA politics, but I certainly doubt it. Same answer for the ME Girls.

          Come hell or high water Brown is better than Kennedy or a Kennedy clone replacing him. Get over it.

          And the only funny thing about the write in votes is the idea that a schnook like Sarah’s boy-thing could win in any format. If you’ve got evidence of fraud with write-in ballots, write a diary about for starters. Until then, put your other foot in your mouth.

        • lightfootletters

          It would be a liberal position for the individual to decide their own health care issues, including child birth and not the government (especially the Federal Government), church, or political party. However, it is not a liberal position to force your neighbor to pay for your health care or your personal decisions regarding health care.

    • tlhanger

      When Scott was running, it was us that supportoes a write in and beats himed him. Giving money outside my state doesn’t usually happen, but we did. Makes me question why we do it. We supported the man in Alaska too, and Murkowski did a write in and beat him. The party better know who is running and if they are RINOS if they want more support!

      • tlhanger

        I hate it when the cursor jumps around and I don’t know it, sorry

  • Michael Dugas

    …and hypocritical regardless. Obviously this is about abortion and abortion alone. Everything Planned Parenthood does, other than murdering the unborn, will be covered by Obamacare. So why the need for double funding of the same services, especially during tough fiscal times? It’s abortion plain and simple. The only thing left that P.P. does that Obamacare doesn’t cover, because it would be illegal, is abortion.
    Also according to P.P.’s own financial reports, ’08 – ’09, they make a tidy profit in the millions. Why in the world would we need to subsidize
    a supposed Non-Profit Organization that’s making money? I’ll tell you why. So they can keep doing abortions AND donate enormous sums of money to their Democrat Sugar Daddies.
    Has our county’s moral center so decayed that a majority see this as ok? Business as usual? I don’t think so, not yet anyway, but that doesn’t stop the Left and their media minions from lying, cheating and out right stealing to get their way.

    P.S. Scott Brown sure has turned out to be a disappointment.

    • Finrod

      Republicans should pass a bill putting a 100% business tax on Planned Parenthood’s profits.

  • akafroman

    Mike Pence is pretty much the only one who explains the gimickery of how tax dollars pay for abortion. The majority of Americans don’t want to pay for abortions, but they believe the lie that “only 3% of the activities….” or “there is a taxpayer firewall between the funding and abortion…” . PP uses taxpayer funding to pay for everything administrative/equipment/building/personnel, and then uses all of the freed up funds to pay for the physical abortion procedure. Its like paying for a drug addict’s food/clothing/housing, and then claiming that you are not enabling him. As long as the Repulicans do not explain this, there will be less support, and the public will be lulled into complacency by the a budgetary equivalent of moving money from one pocket to the other.

  • Bill S

    NOTA in Maine.

    No trucers.

    • edintexas

      I’ll admit to being out of the “mainstream”, particularly with words and phrases common among the not near ready for Social Security crowd. I still don’t know exactly what “Kowalsky” means, or at least how it relates to the English “exactly” or “agreed” and how a Polish surname came to have the meaning.

      NOTA? This may be a commonly understood abbreviation in ME, or among younger people, but what exactly does it mean?

      • MikeG (Icythus)

        who became famous for responding to his own comments. Not in a crazy-person way, but in a “Oh, and another point I forgot to mention…” way.

        So now it has become traditional here at RedState to put “Kowalski” in your subject line if you are responding to your own comment.

        • MikeG (Icythus)

          Like so. I just “pulled a Kowalski”.

      • http://www.twitter.com/AWG9_yoyo yoyo

        …the definition for when a user replies to his/her own reply, usually to correct a mis-spelling or to expand or clarify a thought, without anyone else replying to it first. There once was a user named Kowalski who was infamous for doing it. Thus, in the RedState vernacular, the pronoun became a verb.

        NOTA, on the other hand, is something that Bill would have to explain. I have no clue.

        • http://www.twitter.com/AWG9_yoyo yoyo
      • audax
  • unclefred

    We tried to knock off Lisa and missed the opportunity. So don’t expect her to even listen to the right at least for 4 years.

    As to Brown and Kirk: Do you really think that we could do any better in either state? There are areas where we can expect to push them and there are areas where that expectation is completely unrealistic. People are free to with hold support as they see fit, but you may wish to consider that Brown is a very long shot in Mass in 2012 and that any dem who sits in that seat will be far far worse.

    As for our Maine girls, Maine is changing. It is changing rather rapidly. There is a real possibility that we can primary Snowe and win the seat with a MUCH more conservative candidate. If we can primary Snowe there is a good chance that Collins will get the message, but still do you think it is remotely possible that we won’t go after her in the 2014 primary? I don’t and I doubt very much that she thinks we won’t. The most we can to is to brace her on votes that she fears a leftward vote will harm her with the middle. If we can take down Snowe we can force Collins somewhat to the right.

    It may be in excusable, but it is reality. If we can take the Senate by a decent margin in 2012 we can try to toss these guy out down the road. But for now, Brown is the only game we have in Mass and we would be very foolish to with hold support in 2012.. It will take time to gain conservative dominance in the Senate and in some states moderates/RINOs are the best we can do for the immediate future.

    Lets focus on 2012 and the races where we can either successfully primary RINOs and win, or knock off more dems. This is NOT a sprint it’s a marathon.

    • america1st

      in the People’s Kommonwealth of Kennedy. Even if he were a closet Goldwater, he could not reveal it among the zombie progs of his constituency. I think he’s better than Kirk, but that’s just me. The three female RINOs gotta go as their terms conclude.

      • Leon H. Wolf

        So I buy this argument about as much as I buy that there is a prince in Zambia somewhere who needs my bank account information so he can transfer me some funds.

    • belcatar

      If we can find an actual conservative candidate to run against Senator Snowe, I’ll do what I can to lend support. Snowe as a pretty long arm when it comes to Republican politics in Maine, but the election of Paul LePage shows that you’re right about Maine changing.

      Of course, there’s always the risk of someone like Tom Allen or even a guy like Elliot Cutler (who is independent but supports abortion rights) slipping through. Although, with Snowe’s voting record, it would just be more of what we’re used to.

      Here’s hoping we can find someone to unseat her.

      • nivlem

        • http://www.twitter.com/AWG9_yoyo yoyo

          …and no, I haven’t (I am a guy), but neither has anyone in my family or anyone I have ever had a close association with.

          What is your point?

          Regardless of what “services” are “utilized” by whom, it is NOT the Federal (or State, for that matter) government’s responsibility or jurisdiction regarding the administration or subsidization of Health Care Services – for ANYONE.

          It is the “General Welfare” Clause – not “Complete” or “Specific Welfare” Clause.

          And finally, what does your question have to do with Maine Politics?

    • Michael Dugas

      In this economic situation he could have framed his vote, with some face time with the media and online media to inform his constituents, about redundant spending, P.P.’s financial s, and a variety of other facts to make his vote to defund palatable.
      I believe it could have been done. Proper framing, proper exposure….
      I just have also come to expect “less” from Scott Brown than I had hoped for.

      • http://www.mysimplehomegarden.com tbaleno

        This wasn’t a vote he had to give up to get re-elected. He could have absorbed the negativity of the more liberal voters that voted for him by doing as Michael said

      • edintexas

        But getting “the message” out is something Republicans simply don’t do. One or two might give a half-hearted try, but their PR abilities absolutely evaporate between election campaigns. I’ve never understood it, but there it is. Pick any 100 people off the street and give them a position to explain. 90 to 95 of them will do better than a randomly selected Republican politician in D.C. (if the Republican even bothers to try).

    • akafroman

      He could be the best candidate for the Massachusetts, but he doesn’t deserve nation support. Monetary support would be much more effective supporting candidates in swing states like ohio, or “reaching” states like wisconsin or michigan.

      • Michael Dugas

        Info Campaign and those are who he needs for re-election. Now all of that depends on who or if he has a Republican Opponent come election season. He didn’t get any hard Left support or much regular Dem support I think given he ran on a Anti-Obamacare Fiscal Responsibility message.
        Independents are the biggest group there, if I remember correctly, followed by Dems and then Republicans. Republicans cannot get elected there without winning a large majority of the Independent vote.
        Again I believe that Brown could have voted to defund with a properly framed fiscal message based on many of the reasons I gave above.

  • Praying

    The Maine sisters and have ALWAYS been outside the mainstream – the only reason they haven’t been tossed out long ago is because no legitimate Republican would get elected in Maine. Or Massachusetts, for that matter. Kirk was never a solid conservative, but again, we settled for the “best we could get” in Illinois. And Murkowski was going to be the Achilles heel in everything going forward, just because “I won” even if she had to cheat to do it. Having a majority in congress won’t get the GOP anywhere – look at the House, and the debacle of a budget “deal” that Boehner got for us. Yippie! $352M in cuts – the gov’t spent more than that during the time it took to do the roll call vote. I do not think these folks fully understand the rising anger of the American people. This will not end well for some of these folks next election.

  • freemanja1991

    Our founding father’s didn’t believe in political parties, and believed people should vote their district. I don’t agree with their decision but we have to let blue state republicans break with us sometimes.

  • e_rowe

    If the regime in DC didn’t want to use any our money to fund abortion, then they wouldn’t give any of our money to organizations that spend any portion of their money on abortion, such as Planned Parenthood or the government of Israel. Anybody who supports such uses of tax dollars necessarily supports taxpayer funding of abortion.

    • Leon H. Wolf

      You’re a Ron Paul supporter, aren’t you?

  • nivlem

    If we are going to fund it, we should make the performing of abortions illegal due to taxpayer funding.

    We should insist that family planning includes adoption, abstinence, and birth control.

    We should insist it gives they have counseling on what an abortion does to a child.

    Defunding PPH the way the Rep. Party has approached it is a lost battle. We need to reframe the issue if we are to win this war.

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

      And shiv the conservatives who don’t want to fund birth control?

      No thanks.

      • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

        Fixed it for you.

        Taking over and “redefining” the mission of a private company is so far removed from Conservatism, that I almost can’t believe we keep responding to this guy. It’s becoming clear he doesn’t understand the first thing about what Conservatism IS.

        • Bill S

          I’ve been thinking about an approach for a diary around that idea. There’s a bigger concept at play here: how anyone can be a conservative while being a total social liberal. I don’t believe a social liberal can be classified as a conservative, at all.

          • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

            It depends on exactly what is meant by “social liberal,” but as far as the abortion debate is concerned, I think you and I are in agreement, and I hope my above comment wasn’t misconstrued to mean otherwise. It meant nothing more than what it said, in context.

            But yes… I DO think that outlawing MURDER is the ONLY Conservative position.

          • Bill S

            And the clarification of “what is meant” is where my struggle arises. I would have to be very specific about that to avoid an overly sweeping generalization.

        • etlib

          “Red State,” note the name, is a Republican first, Conservative second site. This has been made clear to me in responses to some of my posts, some of which seemed to threaten to ban me for suggesting that maybe Conservatives should vote third party or not vote at all if the republican isn’t “Conservative”.

          You’re responding to one of the enforcers.

          • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

            Don’t comment much anymore, but I’ve been around long enough to know both the purpose of the site and who the mods are.

            This comment doesn’t really appear to be addressed to me, as it doesn’t actually pertain to anything that was actually said by me… but as it was posted as a response to my comment, I’ll assume it was.

            If you read what I wrote (reading comprehension has long been a friend to RedStaters), you’ll see I was not only NOT disagreeing with Neil (though it happens from time to time, and it’s okay to do so), but I was also not advocating a third-party. At all.

            So that said, I’ll toss it back over to you, and you can decide whether you meant to post that to me, and if so, tell me or not exactly what part of what I said you disagree with. Then we’ll go from there.

          • etlib

            I don’t really want to get into an off topic discussion here. perhaps I misinterpreted your meaning when you substituted the upper case “Conservative” since I consider Neil a lower case “conservative”.

          • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

            No, the “fix” I was proposing was merely the removal of the second part of his statement. Neil and I don’t disagree on this discussion. I was simply saying that the above poster’s continued calls to federalize Planned Parenthood were in no way conservative (Big C OR little).

  • jeffreywturner

    Throw them in with Manchin and Casey as the allegedly moderate Dems that we will be going after for this vote. With those two, plus the two Dems you mentioned and the Republicans, we win this vote.

    • Leon H. Wolf

      At this point it is just a contest for which Republican will replace him. He’s the Blanche Lincoln of this election season.

      • red_oakster

        We need to elect conservatives where we can so that the votes of folks like Brown or Snowe will be moot. The point is to get conservative strength up to a level that we don’t need to rely on the social liberals.

        • jeffreywturner

          where we can comfortably elect the right conservative.

          Take the 20 or so deep red states (ie: Utah, Wyoming) where we can get solid conservatives elected as long as they are competent and not corrupt. Add to that the 10 next most conservative states (ie: Florida, Indiana) where we can get conservatives elected as long as they are personally popular and that gives us 60 seats in the Senate without breaking a sweat.

  • DGaines

    As the vote was a foregone conclusion it allows them to pander to the liberal states they represent. In my opinion the greater blame lies with Boehner and company who call themselves conservatives but couldn’t get it done. It would have been much more difficult for the aforementioned Senators to vote this way if the defunding was a part of the CR as it should have been.

  • nivlem

    In the last twenty minutes no one has admitted to utilizing PPH services. Do you even know what they provide for the poor and indigent? Are you so myopic that you are missing the true battle because you cannot see the true value the enemy provides?

    Please understand what you are fighting against. PPH provides a lot of needed services. Defunding it totally is a waste of our effort.

    Let us focus on what is important and redefine their mission and the services they provide.

    • Leon H. Wolf

      Rest assured it has been given all the weight it deserves.

      • nivlem

        ..

        • powertothepeople

          was not intending his comment to be praise for the pig feces you spread on this board. In fact, I can guarantee he was being quite sarcastic. But since you seemed to miss his meaning, let me interpret for you,

          Hey Left, the moronic pig crap you just posted is as absurdly ignorant as I have seen in a long time and it will be taunted without mercy.

          • Leon H. Wolf

            Next you’ll be telling this guy that when someone says “Your call is very important to us, please continue to hold,” that his call is not actually very important to them.

          • powertothepeople

            I ruined the fun for us all. I will punish myself accordingly by making myself go snuggle with the wife. That will teach me………..

            I bet he still does not get it though………..

        • http://www.mysimplehomegarden.com tbaleno

          It has been said, everything PP offers is taken care of by obamacare. Why are we funding them twice. Besides, how are they different from any for profit hospital? Not very since they make a profit (funny thing for a non-profit entity)

          • nivlem

            Unfortunately, you do not know if I am a man or woman. Let me give you an insight… I have worked with many of the indigent utilizing PPH. None of them has had an abortion there or a mamogram. I am 50 plus years old. I have seen PPH evolve. Defunding it is not the answer. Redefining it is.

            If you want to see the reality of the situation, use their services for the last 30 years and then get back to me.

            In the meantime, please laugh yourselves all the way to a losing battle.

          • rightwingmom52

            none of the indigent you’ve worked with at PP has had a mammogram. Because they don’t offer them, They choose to make their money victimizing women and killing babies.

          • nivlem

            Please do not judge me or others until you have been there. We have a great opportunity to make changes, but not if your eyes have not even experienced the reality of the situation.

            Please do not judge or diminish our affecting a change because we are naive to the workings of an organization.

            We can control the abortion issue with a hard fought battle. But it is not going to be won by defending it. It can be won by redefining it’s mission, and funding it accordingly.

          • Bill S

            And yet I know it’s a bad thing. Stop with the chickenhawk logic.

          • aesthete

            “redefine” the mission of a privately-owned institution? The delineation between private and public may be getting blurrier (thanks in part to PP workers), but it isn’t quite that far gone. That is neither acceptable nor feasible as an option. It is also something that has nothing to do with the general mandate to cut spending on the Hill.

          • nivlem

            ..Let is try this….

            The original PPH …

            Subsidize physicals…including pap smears… Now maybe mammograms which we do not provide.

            Provide birth control to indigent clients at a subsidized rate.

            Add to it:

            Add….family counseling,

            Provide birth choice counseling.

            Eliminate abortion funding.

            Please think outside the box. I have watched you for a ling time. You are better than this.

          • aesthete

            Even if we accept more government involvement in the economy, and even if we wanted to “improve” PP instead of supporting someone else with less stigma and no record of baby-killing, the fact is that Reps were sent to the Hill to cut spending, *not* to reform PP or any other private institution through the use of subsidies. In fact, the game that government plays with subsidies and selective taxes is one of the motivators of the Tea Party movement. Even if your proposal were a good idea, it is a non-sequitur in the current environment and irrelevant to the question of whether to defund PP.

            If you do good work at Planned Parenthood, that’s great. Don’t force the rest of us to pay for it, and don’t blind yourself to the evils perpetrated by the organization just because it provides some things of value. Hamas and Hezbollah distribute toys to impoverished children and food to their constituents. The KKK set up mutual aid societies and provided medical and quality of life services for poor white sharecroppers. That did not, and does not, expunge from those orgs their bad deeds. One does not get to keep a ledger where one’s good deeds can atone for their bad.

            To get back on topic, defund PP (regardless of other schemes)? Yes, or no?

          • nivlem

            I don’t do any work for PPH. But I work with people that this is their only option.

            Honestly, every time abortion comes up on this site, would think it was the only sin God sees. The most vehement and irrational attacks that come down
            Are amazing and irrational.

            Before you judge something, please experience what you are judging.

          • powertothepeople

            a person does not have to partake of the sin in order to know it is wrong and dangerous ( or for your small mind me no have to do to know it bad.)

            And while the Bible states that all sins cause the person to be in the same condition of being lost, way too many, yourself included, try to twist that verse into meaning all sins are equal. People were put to death for some things while others only required a fine. Abortion is no the only sin God sees, that is the only correct thing you have stated to date but even then you twisted it, but few other sins this country is committing cost over a million lives a year. And what makes it bad is that the 1.2 plus million killed have not even been given the chance to live yet. So please tell us what other sin this country commits causes the devastation that abortion causes?

            Waiting………

            Still Waiting……..

            Now shove off with your moronic nonsense. Even stupid people know when to shut up and move on. Please tell me you have that much common sense.

          • powertothepeople

            Hate to break it you, those “poor” people who only have the “option” of PP put themselves in that boat. Do not ask us to feel sorry for those who made their own bed and instead of lying in it want us to pay their way. You will find no compassion here for nonsense like that. Drop out of school, get hooked on dope, get knocked up before you are capable of providing for your needs and the needs of the child, get a felony record, learn no viable skills, etc etc etc tough, pull yourself up by the boot straps and earn (key word EARN) your way back to the top. But in the meantime, stop using such a silly argument as they have no choice. We all have choices and we also have to live by the choices we made. That is except the mooches on society that you feel “must” use the murder kings of this country.

            Now with no further delays, carry on with the slapping.I am really hoping it knocks some sense into you, but I am not holding my breath.

          • aesthete

            and I did say “if” you work for PP…

            However, there’s a pretty good reason that abortion gets the attention that it does — it is one of only a handful of aggressive actions against another that is still tolerated in polite society. Downplaying the issue, or casting it as the nattering of busybodies, misses the point in a tremendous way. I have not attacked those who work at PP, nor I have not attacked you or demeaned your character, so I would appreciate it if you would reply to my point of exactly how your proposal makes political sense at a time when Reps were elected to cut the deficit, not to help reform PP. Only then can we have a discussion about the moral and practical ramifications of using government subsidy to “reform” a group whose claim to fame is being the number one abortion provider in America.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
          • Aaron Gardner
          • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

            is that Planned Parenthood is NOT a government institution. It’s not OUR mission to “reframe.” What can you not understand. The government cannot simply “redefine” what Planned Parenthood does because it doesn’t belong to the government. I’m not sure how many other ways it can be said.

            By God, you are thick.

          • rightwingmom52

            seems to be you. The rest of us are well aware that PP kills babies and victimizes women. The abortion issue is not one to be “controlled” nor do you win it by “redefining its mission.” How, pray tell, do you propose to redefine the mission of killing babies? Liberals have already done that by calling PP health centers.

            I suggest that before you continue singing the praises of PP and how to save it, you should read a couple of diaries that have been posted. Links below.

            http://www.redstate.com/heartlander/2011/01/25/who-the-gets-an-abortion-when-theyre-7-months-pregnant/

            http://www.redstate.com/repair_man_jack/2011/01/25/life-death-abortion-and-genghis-the-green/

            http://www.redstate.com/heartlander/2011/01/27/i-regret-my-abortion-and-i-am-silent-no-more/

          • nivlem

            I am only stating we can only win this war if we know it, understand it, and change it we will not win now by trying to eliminating it.

            Have you been to one. If not, go. Then you will understand what I am saying.

          • rightwingmom52

            those who have abortions, those who perform abortions and those who support abortions. Moreover, I cringe when you talk about “we can only win this war” because I’m pretty sure we’re not on the same side. More suggested reading for you below. If you choose not to read the heartfelt and eloquent words others here have written on the matter, then nothing I say is going to get through, so I’m not going to waste any more of my time trying. Instead, I’ll just say a special prayer at bedtime for all the pro lifers fighting the good fight, for all the unborn babies in danger, and for you as well.

            http://www.redstate.com/snarkandboobs/2010/04/14/feminists-rejoice-at-idea-of-abortion-for-convenience/

          • powertothepeople

            I want to say that all nude strip clubs are not the immoral slut pens that so many have claimed them to be. While they may have been that way years ago, they have reinvented themselves into the following:

            A stress free zone filled with extremely moral women whose only desire is to see the male patrons learn how to be better husbands, boyfriends, or partners to the women waiting at home for them.

            They provide marriage counseling in lieu of the table dances they use to offer.

            The women no longer wear nothing, now they approach the men with their Sunday best and a Bible,

            No longer will drugs and sex fill the walls of these establishments, instead they are filled with sermons on the sanctity of marriage and being faithful to the trusting women.

            Instead of pounding alcohol down, the men sip various varieties of imported tea.

            Now, until you ma-am visit one of these reinvented clubs, you can not know the utopia they provide the men and the community. You can not know the peace that can be found inside until you partake of their business.

            Absurd right? Now you know how we view the nonsense you keep trying to feed us.

          • gunslingr45

            by defeating an enemy, not by funding the part of his war machine that does not shoot!

            If ignorance is bliss, then liberals must be euphoric!

          • belcatar

            If you think the federal government has any business funding health care, you’ve already tacitly agreed to a federal government that surpasses its constitutional authority.

            Yoyo already brought up this point, but somehow you might have missed it.

          • powertothepeople

            who you work for or your bleeding heart BS, I could care less how old you are or how you feel about our approach, PP will be have its funds taken and the day it closes it doors, that will be a day we will alll rejoice.

            You may buy into their nonsense, but we do not. They are the largest provider of abortions in the country. Most of their revenue comes from the murder of our unborn, they are trash, they are murderers, and their business needs to be eradicated.

            I could give a rats ass that they “help” a few indigent people for multiple reasons.

            A) “Helping” others is not why they stay in business nor is it how they make most of their money. Helping a few, even a lot, does not make up in any way shape or form for the 350,000 they murder a year, period.

            B) Not our job to fund any persons health care, period.

            C) They are scum as well as their supporters. Over looking the death factory in favor of the tiny little help shop is absurd. We do not need to reinvent them, we need to destroy them and it will happen soon. We are not forgetting about them nor are we giving up.They will be done sooner or later and I would be willing to bet it will be sooner.

            Lastly, but not least, you do not know what the people you work with have had done at PP. Just because you did not know them or deal with them at the time of their abortion does not mean they did not use PP to perform it. So stop with the nonsense. And if you have no issue dealing with them, then you are no better than they are. And unlike you, most of us on here have morals and are not going to utilize their murderous services for one day much less 30 years.

            In closing, I have no more time to deal with a moron or their moronic postings so I am done with this. You are on the wrong site period. You and your willingness to deal with the scumbags at PP shows us all you would fit in much better with the rest of the scum over at KOS.

            By the way, love how you claim they have reinvented themselves. Are you saying that now instead of being black haters and haters of all others not white they are now just killers? What a wonderful makeover.

          • nivlem

            Reinvented themselves? Black/white haters? Scumbags? Yeah…somebody is at the wrong site.

            Visit a PPH office.. Then get back to me…

            Let us see how we can change it. Because if we fight to close it, we will lose.
            But if we restrict it, curtail their operations, limit their finding we will win.

            Cuss me, threaten me, whatever, I am right.

            Right now we are losing because of our approach. If we continue on this path develop continue to
            Ode.

          • gunslingr45

            Kind of thinking is why we have so many LIBERAL Republicans now. Two words that should never show up together but have become commonplace it seems.

    • sablegsd

      This non profit makes millions. Why do they need to be funded? Women should pay for their own abortions. If they can’t afford birth control, an abortion or a child, keep your legs closed.

      • nivlem

        Let us determine what PPH should/should not do.

        We can WiN this argument. We cannot win the defunding argument.

        • rightwingmom52

          and should not do. They should not kill babies and they should not use taxpayer money to do so. Period.

          • nivlem

            Is that asking to much? Let us fund it on that basis…

            Oh, and let them perform a mammogram and add birth choice counseling…

          • rightwingmom52

            No to any taxpayer funding and no to expanding PP’s services. PP’s priority is performing abortions and making money at it. They have no interest or incentive in steering women in any other direction. There are many wonderful pregnancy centers who have the well-being of the mothers, the babies and even the father at heart. If it wasn’t clear before, you gave yourself away with the “birth choice” counseling.

          • nivlem

            They were there when there doctor was not to provide affordable pap s,ears and birth control. They counseled them on issues other than birth control.

            Please see the big picture we are fighting. We see it as abortion, but many, many women never came close tom having thar conversation whrn PPH counseled them.

            This is what we are up against. We MUST understand lots and list if people have PPH do not have the experience we are trying to frame as PPH. This is why we are losing the battle.

            We have to understand other perceptions.

          • powertothepeople

            crap

            And we are not buying it

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            Get out. Don’t return.

          • Bill S

            You are unlikely to get one iota of sympathy from the contributing editors if you bother to email for reinstatement, so save yourself the effort.

    • bk

      We should pour tons of aid into North Korea because a quarter of the people there are starving and they have no one else to turn to. The NK govt need only promise that the aid will be used for food and not nuclear weapons and that should remove any concerns we have about sending them money we borrowed from China.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    unless, of course, you’ve got a list of possible replacements to discuss.

    Would I like to have solidly conservative, pro-life Senators in those ME & MA? Absolutely. As it stands, and I could certainly be wrong because I live a long way from the East Coast, we have no candidates who will do anything in 12 but drain money out of the current Republican Senators campaigns and weaken them in the fall. Better to primary Dick Lugar because we’ve got a credible candidate who can beat him and win state wide.

    Without an accompanying analysis of who’s available to run against them, you’re doing nothing but striking up a chorus of “To Dream The Impossible Dream” and getting prepped to stick a lance in your foot.

    • Leon H. Wolf

      But there comes a point when you have to just pick up your torch and pitchfork and this is one of those times, for me.

      Do not take my tax money and give it to an abortion provider and you won’t have this problem.

      • aesthete

        and probably could have scrounged up at least one Dem if they’d tried cutting PP funding. Are we going to primary those guys who let PP funding happen during that time, as well? That’s a lot of primary challenges — and a very weak Republican party for 2012. Politics means dealing with monstrous people, unfortunately. I’m not particularly keen on a repeat of Christi

        It looks like Boehner might have a credible challenger: the OH Tea Parties are none too happy about him, and there are conservatives in OH. From what I read upthread, Maine voters might be inclined to support more conservative candidates (though where those candidates are, no one knows). IL and MA voters? Not so much. I’d rather not have a repeat of Christine O’Donnell, if y’all don’t mind.

      • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

        I’ve been various degrees of active in the pro-life movement since 1975, from giving money to specific groups to starting the first (non-Catholic) Christian based pregnancy counseling and adoption group in New England. In all that time, the one consistency in the movement is that it made herding cats look easy.

        We are on the verge of potentially being able to win the Presidency and substantial majorities in both Houses of the Congress as well as controlling the vast majority of State Governorships and State Legislative seats in 12.

        The best part of the pro-life movement is that it is the one truly “bi-partisan” movement – in a good way – that has ever reared it’s head. There are many elected Dems who serve pro-life constituencies and as the Stupak lesson sinks in, and there will likely be some additional body count in 12, those Dems will potentially more than offset your list.

        If you want to stop spending “government” money on abortion, and specifically on PP, there are lots of ways to do it and relying on the feds is the least reliable. The most effective way is to go after them at the state level with new Govs and AGs. The most effective thing that could be done would be to regulate abortion-mills as outpatient surgery clinics, which to my knowledge is done no where. Vet surgeries are vastly more regulated than PP (see Philly), and the fall out from Philly – where the “doctor” may well get the needle – can easily be used as a model in other states. And it can be correctly done under the guise of “protecting women’s health”.

        Passion is good. A solid plan is better. The pro-life movement has always lived on the first and rejected the latter. Maybe that’s why we’re still butchering a million plus every year.

        • aesthete

          http://hamptonroads.com/2011/02/stricter-regulation-abortion-clinics-likely-pass-virginia

          Bob McDonnell continues to impress. I don’t have quite as much experience with the pro-life movement (about 5 years of involvement for me), but from my limited experiences it’s pretty clear that it has all of the conviction, moral standing and practicality of the pre-Civil War abolitionist movement.

    • cja99

      SAVE AMERICA IS 2012 – $14 TRILLION AND CLIMBING – Obama won’t stop until is finished America off. Vote this Dope out!

    • Finrod

      We need to make sure we boot Lugar and Hatch first. We also need to find and promote viable candidates in every red state with a Dem senator running for re-election.

      • acat

        Seriously, Daniels is a reasonably popular governor in Indiana, he could win statewide, and he appears to be further right than Lugar…

        Perhaps this, instead of his POTUS run, would make more sense?

        Mew

        (yes, I know, it’s highly unlikely he’ll make his decision based on a cat’s scratch on a web site…)

        • carolina

          That was the last that I heard. Besides, he may still run for president????

          • acat

            But, like I said, I don’t expect Daniels to go for the Senate when he thinks he should have the oval office. It just seems like it might be a better fit for him.

            Mew

          • ffc99

            How so? Daniels has spent the past 20+ years in executive positions (both in the public and private sector). I suspect he’d rather have a colonoscopy than serve as one of 100 in the US Senate. He’d be absolutely miserable as a Senator (and he knows it). If he runs for anything (and I’m betting he doesn’t) it’s going to be for the White House.

          • acat

            It’d also give Daniels the opportunity to rebuild his conservative cred, which he’s burned a bit of already with his truce gaffe.

            Yes, he’d likely hate it, but .. it’s not forever, there’s 2016 and 2020 and the (likely) possibility of an appointment or (less likely) a veep draft.

            Mew

          • ffc99

            would be a better ideological fit for Indiana than Lugar. I responded to your comment simply because, having spent some limited time in Indiana Republican circles, the idea of Daniels running for Senate is simply preposterous. He would never do it, so it’s a possibility not even really worth discussing.

          • aesthete

            He has stated a number of times his desire to return to the private sector after completing his terms in IN, and he’s served in executive positions all his life, so I don’t see him going that route. At any rate, we already have a good conservative running against Lugar.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            paraphrased, is on the order, of “I’ve always respected Dick, he’s done lots of good things for IN, and while I’m remaining neutral in the primary I’m looking forward to voting for him in the general.”

            It was a classic non-endorsement endorsement. As of right now I think Daniels is the only statewide office holder or party official who’s come out for Lugar. His conservative opponent has a list of names that runs to about 100.

      • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

        At least Lugar is acting like an entrenched politician and giving us the finger. Hatch is acting like the pathetic suck up he’s always been. I’m not that close to boots on the ground in UT, but I get the feeling that he’s going to be a no-sale this time around, especially since there are at least a couple of very strong conservative replacements available.

        Build the bench!

        • Finrod

          IIRC he wanted to give copyright owners the right to break into peoples’ computers so they could check if any ‘unauthorized’ media was there. Even with all the stupidity emanating from DC on a regular basis, this was one of the biggest.

  • drfredc

    The Scott Browns of the world aren’t liberal extremists. What is extreme is trying to force your opinion, one way or the other, on to others. Abortion and Planned Parenthood provides a clear picture of how this should and shouldn’t be done.

    What shouldn’t be done is taxpayers who don’t want to pay for abortions should not have their tax dollars funding abortions. Those who feel differently shouldn’t have that right taken away. The solution is relatively simple — convert PP into an NGO and provide the option for taxpayers who want to fund PP (and abortions) to get full tax credits for sending PP a percent of their tax dollars owed. Allow conservatives who feel otherwise to send their tax dollars to some government expense they believe in — perhaps that’s as simple as paying down the debt, or perhaps donating to some local health charity for the poor (government or not).

    It’s flat out wrong for politicians to be making these decisions with tax dollars taken from people. There is the fifth amendment that says there should be just compensation for property taken — well, fine… This should apply to tax dollars taken thru the income tax. The just compensation could be provided by offering taxpayers some say in how their tax dollars are spent… PP vs other health charities is a perfect example. Most every government program could be offered as similar choices…

    • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

      it’s reverting to the proper role of government when it comes to private or charitiable institution, which is: none. If people feel so strongly about funding Planned Parenthood, why not just have them send PP the money? Why even filter through the government at all?

      I’m not sure whether your above “proposal” is sophomoric or just naive.

    • davesinsanantonio

      that government services is the just compensation.
      The problem with that argument is that the government is now involved in way to many aspects of our lives, stretching the commerce clause and others way out of shape to justify their power grabs.

      The silliness of your suggestion that we all get say in how our taxes are spent is over the top. As if the government wasn’t already way too big and powerful, imagine the size of the bureaucracy needed to manage such a hodge-podge of spending opinions. And, what do we do when someone changes his/her mind about their desires?

      A much better idea would be for the government to get out of the micromanaging nanny business and let us keep more of our own money and we can spend it however we wish directly, without any government interference at all.

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

      RONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAUL
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      RONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAUL
      RONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAUL
      RONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAUL
      RONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAUL
      RONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAUL
      RONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAUL
      RONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAUL
      RONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAULRONPAUL

      • aesthete

        Paul is actually very good on abortion.

        • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

          He’s a liar and a fraud.

          He needs to be expelled from the House for his trutherism, his racism, and his lunacy.

          • aesthete

            He’s still quite good when it comes to that one issue.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            You have to support the passage of bills to be very good on an issue.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            Very quickly found his NRLC rating in 2006: 56 out of 100. Not good at all. A squish.

  • GregInFla

    The government always wants to insist that if an organization takes government money, then they have to do X, Y, and Z because they need to follow rules for the fed govt. Good example is $$$ to school districts or colleges, or to adoption groups. So, it should be obvious that if you take fed government $$$, then you cannot provide abortion services, since it is forbidden to use fed govt funds to provide abortions.

    So PPH simply has to split off the abortion services to a new unrelated company, Dead Babies R Us, which would not take fed govt $$$.. And when they do that, I want to see all the people who each month donate money to this organization with checks made out to Dead Babies R Us. I am sure all those who donate proudly to PPH today will write out those checks.

  • johnthebaptistmoore

    It’s not just the RINOS that true conservatives have to, successfully, defeat, at each and every political level, but it’s also the “establishment Republicans”, at each and every political level, and the “elitist Republicans”, at each and every political level, that need to be, successfully, defeated, too, by true conservatives. Too many “elitist Republicans” want amnesty for illegal immigrants to happen for cheap labor purposes and despite all of the problems that illegal immigration creates for everybody, throughout the entire U.S. and U.S. territories. Steve Forbes is one example of an elitist Republican who is, often, very quiet about the illegal immigration issue.

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

      No, I won’t let you take Leon’s abortion post to whine about illegal immigration.

  • redpenny

    abortions at PPH might be a cost saving program over the long haul.If you don’t get all bent out of shape over the act of aborting;consider the “Nanny State” dollars that might be saved since so many who abort @PPH will likely be or are already on the dole and will likely stay there for years to come.Population control in it’s nastiest form——yeah,I know an unsightly mess any way you look at it!!!!!

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
    • Bill S

      if you don’t get all bent out of shape over the act of shooting someone in the head. Consider the “nanny state” dollars that might be saved by not paying them Social Security, Medicare, etc.

      “Decrease the surplus population” as a social policy. I’m sure Pol Pot and Josef Stalin would welcome the idea.

    • aesthete

      for advocacy of such a grisly and morally bankrupt plan to save money (assuming that your assumptions are valid).

    • ceili_dancer

      Hey Redpenny, Carousel just called, your gem turned red and you are needed in the robing room.

    • YnotNOW

      was meant only in ironic jest.

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack
  • america1st

    abortion is THE issue of the *religious* right. While this group is a large constituency within the conservative electorate and
    can be critical to success in the GOP primaries, the *ISSUE* itself is at best a non-factor in general elections and often a net loser.

    All of these Senators can be – and the weirdlings of Maine *should* be – pursued on financial / administrative issues, whether their votes for ?shamacare, sotomayer / kagan or other matters. In the court of public opinion, however, which is where we win or lose, going semi-postal over a PPH funding vote because of the organization’s predilection for abortion is inferior to one founded on principles of financial responsibility. See, e.g., funding for PBR.

    And no, I am not “pro abortion,” but my views on this matter do not fall into the simplistic binary universe many on both sides embrace.

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

      No, being a worthless squish is not the high road.

      • america1st

        would I still have an account on the site if I were to characterize another writer, much less a mod, as a “worthless squish?” ;-)

        While there are only two possible outcomes, I would submit the issue is far more complex and nuanced than either the femNazis or Bible thumpers present it. I would further submit that a majority of the American electorate, a large one in fact, fall somewhere on the continuum between these two extremes.

        • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

          If you have a problem with Christians, you may want to go to another site, Sparky.

        • Aaron Gardner
    • Bill S

      “My issues matter more than your issues”

      Piss off.

      • america1st

        Interpretation 101.

        (1) I specifically noted: “. . . abortion is THE issue of the *religious* right” and “. . . this group is a large constituency within the conservative electorate . . . .”

        (2) The comparatively lesser importance attaching to the issue was stated to be in “general elections” in which those less vociferously religious are the majority.

        (3) Corrected interpretation: while abortion dominates the agenda of the evangelical right and “feminist” left, it does not resonate anywhere near as strongly with the rest of the electorate who currently worry about their personal and national financial survival. Financial issues are near universal .

        • powertothepeople
          • america1st

            Thanks for the guffaw. I’ve been called many things, not a few of which would be banned on this site, but this is the first time in my life I’ve been accused of being a political centrist, much less an uncommitted, dispassionate one. Damn, but that is FUNNY. As for”moron,” I’d recommend you not pin your hopes for survival to attracting acolytes to honor your obviously formidable intellect.

            It would seem some here, you among them, cannot comprehend the possibility of a conservative who does not share their Pavlovian reaction to this issue. This would be hilarious if it did not taint the rest of us and the movement as a whole as sharing your religious zealotry.

            Nevertheless, at least we share the over-arching goals of smaller government and greater personal responsibility.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            You were warned. Take your bigotry elsewhere.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            Calling me a religious zealot is as idiotic as you can be.

          • Aaron Gardner
          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            We ALL know you’re a religious zealot. You do own an Apple after all.

          • http://www.twitter.com/AWG9_yoyo yoyo

            Neil is most likely a leader of the Anti-Microsoft fringe within the Apple Conservatory Crusaders (or whatever “they” have named it…)

            ‘:o)~

          • GregInFla
          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            I saw this in recent comments, thinking ACC was a sports reference, and was ready to make a sports crack.

            but then I see the context, and now I’m feeling ignorant for not knowing what ACC is in this context :)

          • http://www.twitter.com/AWG9_yoyo yoyo

            That fringe Anti-Microsoft cult you belong to….

            ‘:o)~

          • Bill S

            I was in airports and on a plane most of the day, so I missed the fun with that jackwagon. Well-placed gak, I must say.

  • cja99

    Planned Parenthood is just a taxpayer funded agency for killing babies and the TAXPAYER should not be made to pay for that. It’s a huge lie that they provide for mammograms as it has been proven.

  • dx2krudop

    I contacted Senator Durbin’s office in Washington to argue against funding PP. His staffer suggested that PP could not survive as an organization without Federal Funding but wouldn’t accept or admit that what he said was tantamount to saying that the Federal funds were actually funding abortions.

    • Xasteius

      Specifically Title X of the Public Health Service Act. It’s not earmarked specifically for PP, but it needs repealed anyway.

  • romeg

    that has the funds to contribute, roughly, $1,000,000 to politicians and pacs needs ANY funding from the taxpayers of this country?

    This is an even smaller circular path for those funds than union dues collected by governments, a considerable portion of which we know flows directly into Democrat coffers.

    • runner12

      PP receives 350 million dollars per year. We are on a financial crisis. PP should not be treated as a sacred cow because Dems are rabid pro-abortionists.

      All of these people should be primaried by quality candidates, and I emphasize the word “quality.”

  • Locke
  • Locke

    was behind 9/11. Your third sentence is a little hyperbolic, no?

  • Marcus_Traianus

    Snowe is allegedly a member of the Greek Orthodox Church. If she practices the faith and purports to subscribe to their doctrine, they condemn and abhor abortion.

    Collins is purported to be a Roman Catholic. I am guessing she does not subscribe to church doctrine given her support for abortion.

    Scott Brown is said to be a member of the CRC (Protestant). Guessing he is not practicing, since doctrinally they also say their members should speak out against the ?atrocity? of abortion.

    Shall I go on?

  • swissrmeman

    Did Scott Brown ever hoodwink us into thinking he was one of us?

  • dajeeps

    I agree with the notion of defunding PP in itself, but I think we are missing the larger picture about what?s going on around us when the overtones of the arguments we have to make seem to be all about money and the one thing most of us have put the stake in the ground and refuse to compromise on as if we could salvage anything among the losses it should be the unborn. When it comes down to these kinds of arguments we have already lost because our problems that encompass these issues aren?t just about money or abortion. They are about the culture of death and enslavement promulgated by the nanny state that says if you?re not wanted by your biological parents, you?re not wanted by society and are better off dead; if you?re elderly and infirmed or disabled you?re not productive and are better off dead than having the state pay for your care. It?s about corrupt politicians stealing from posterity for political power today and making command and control choices with that power about what life for those who come after us will be like with their money. After all, we will not be repaying anything that is being spent today ? we can?t.

    With the 150th anniversary of the bombardment of Ft. Sumter getting the press lately, it seems that we would be reminded of the reasons that the old compromises that kept the nation united despite the existence of slavery were no longer valid. At least from the Northern perspective, it wasn?t so much about slavery itself as it was about what happened to slaves after they were acquired, and something lacking in humanity in treating human beings as property, measuring their worth in terms of productivity and treating them accordingly.

    I don?t think people realize that the nanny state is no longer about societal benevolence and command and control economy isn?t about protecting investors or anyone else, as if they ever were. Especially with the radical left coming to the fore, it?s about leveling the playing field with the insistence that what is good for the poor is good for everyone else with a certain kind of disregard and disrespect for those who can and do take care of themselves. They hold deep contempt for those who have the means to do so and intend nothing but violence toward it as a matter of progressive principle. If this were not the case, they would not have made health care the center piece of their agenda in the face of the worst economic catastrophe since the Great Depression. And some folks wonder why they seem out of touch with reality, but the truth of the matter is that they detest the current reality and wish to create a new one in their ideal image, one that likely resembles China.

    I also think many conservatives forget that conservatism isn?t just an economic theory or for those who feel morally superior to the rest in capitulation to the entire goings on of big government in the process of molding society into an ideal image. And when we make it about the bottom line and moral superiority, at least to the rest of the nation, we do violence to the philosophy of republicanism as the foundation and protector of freedom and personal liberty shared by our founders. We also end up losing the battle because we fail to present the underlying philosophy behind the cuts in the budget wherever they are made making them appear as arbitrary and capricious. In that state, they are open to attack from all sides and we have very little to defend them with in the absence of articulating the principle driving them.

  • annplato

    Most people scream about defunding PP BECAUSE we elected the latest round of conservatives to cut government spending.

    I am an accountant who understands numbers better than emotions. So, if PP is responsible for 1.2 M abortions to indigent women, that means the 300+ millions of government money was spent for one abortion is about 400 dollars. If these abortions would have become newborns, how much government (taxpayer) money would have been spent to have them be born and be placed into homes? Isn?t abortion cost-effective considering the alternative?

    If you would concentrate the discussion on the morality of the action of aborting a human life, you could make a better case. On the other hand, the morality to force someone to birth a child she does not want once again goes against the basic tenets of unfettered individual freedom of conservatism.

    Taxes will be a reality of life as death is. Where the government spends that money is up to the elected representatives and obviously no one came up with the answer to either the morality of allowing irresponsible birthing or saving taxpayer money via illegalizing abortion.

    As long as abortion is legal it CAN be called a subsidized health service for indigent women. This argument is always won by liberals because it is logical.

    As for the ?enslavement and nanny state? argument, it is nonsense. Poverty is slavery and any government, including the ?nanny state? should be against the proliferation of poverty.

    • aesthete

      In the US in particular, poverty is simply when one is below an arbitrary income level. I am below the “poverty line” right now — I am far from a slave. I can do what I want, travel to where I please, and work where I choose — what I (and everyone else) cannot do is take appropriate something that is not mine to begin with. Even the desperate, grasping poverty of Latin America, Asia and Africa are not a form of slavery in and of themselves — they are horrible, yes, but not slavery. Check your definitions.

      Abortion as a subsidized health service like any other has already failed as a proposition — the federal government, and the vast majority of state governments, have already banned taxpayer funds going to pay for an abortion. They have failed precisely because people do not see abortion as a health service like any other, and because even many pro-choicers see the problematic nature of forcing people to pay for things that they are strongly opposed to from a moral standpoint.

      And yes, I imagine that paying for Those People to get killed would be cost effective (at least, on the state level), but that is irrelevant to the morality of the whole proposition: it is wrong to kill, and to do so for fiduciary pecuniary gain or to avoid mild discomfort is monstrous.

  • yragnostaw

    I say primary all five of these RINOs and every other RINO in others states. We conservatives should all rally and vote their sorry behinds out of office. That includes our RINO, Dick Lugar from Indiana. What a sorry Senator. We will get rid of him in the next election. We have a true conservative who will challenge Lugar. Finally, we will get rid of this piece of garbage. Just you wait.

    • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

      if you hope to be involved in “primarying” Lugar.

      http://www.daveweb1a.com/GOP/pcelect.html

      Thank you.

      ColdWarrior

    • LibertarianHawk

      And, as such, I’m very much supporting him in next year’s primary (and would be even if I didn’t know him).

      But I have to admit: if I were a Democrat, I’d be licking my chops at the prospect of Mourdock beating Lugar. They’ve long seen Lugar as unbeatable…and rarely run anything but token competition against him.

      If Mourdock wins the primary, look for Joe Donnely to take him on in the GE. And it would be a close race, I bet.

      • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

        and it’s called “BOs BO”.

        I don’t know anything about IN politics, so feel free to set me straight, but I’m guessing that BO at the top of the ticket won’t be helping anybody next year, especially in places like IN. So unless Lugar hauls out all sorts of dirty laundry, any Dem will have a big problem in a statewide race.

  • greyhairandgreymatter

    I have a slightly different take on this discussion. Supposedly, 72% of black mothers and 47% of white mothers are unwed. [I may be off a percentage point or so.] We don’t need more planned parenthood. What we need is to take remedial measures to ensure that we have responsible prospective parents in our country of any race!

  • calvin58

    Look it is screamingly obvious that the country would be better off with ,ore people who function as responsible” parents. Realistically though…how do we get there? Should we leave the citizenry to develop their own sexual mores and follow their own practices? Look where that has us.
    Should we require citizens follow one of the many religions that teach about sexual morality? Can’t require that in this country.

    Perhaps we could take an already existing structure (PP) and better utilize it to focus on responsible sexual practice and provides basic sexual health care. Don’t defund it-Change it’s focus and practice.

    • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

      Planned Parenthood is essentially a private organization. We CAN’T change its focus and practice. That’s one. Second, you haven’t supplied an argument for NOT defunding it? Why not?

  • calvin58

    My comment was to that point-not directly to funding or not funding PP. If PP can be used to the greater good toward healthier sexual practices then that can be good for the country, yes? I take it that you (quite understandably) think that our tax dollars should not be funding the effort to do so. Fair enough, The problem posited by the poster about lack of responsible parenting in this country still remains

    • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

      See below.

  • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

    The “Reply to this” button, which is actually much more easily located than scrolling to the bottom of the page to find the normal comment form, helps to clarify your responses, and makes comment threading easier.

    • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

      As a ___ing hipster in training, the above was done totally on purpose for the sake of irony. Nothing to see here. Carry on the actual conversation.

  • mong001

    Does anyone know if Paul Ryan’s budget addresses family planning/Planned Parenthood? It would seem easier to defund PP by cutting funds in the 2012 budget rather than by passing a “rider” to the recent CR. Couldn’t we also skin this cat the way Dems do by adding so many regulations to use of family planning funds that the extra paperwork would make any organization think twice about requesting taxpayer money? If any organization is crying out for increased federal oversight, it’s PP with its well-known problems, including being caught offering condoms with a high failure rate.