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Obama’s Continuing Assault on the Law, History, and Facts

In the wake of President Obama’s moronic and widely-lampooned comments on judicial review yesterday, President Obama offered the following lame (and incorrect) walkback today:

THE PRESIDENT:  Well, first of all, let me be very specific. We have not seen a Court overturn a law that was passed by Congress on a economic issue, like health care, that I think most people would clearly consider commerce — a law like that has not been overturned at least since Lochner.  Right?  So we’re going back to the ’30s, pre New Deal.

And the point I was making is that the Supreme Court is the final say on our Constitution and our laws, and all of us have to respect it, but it’s precisely because of that extraordinary power that the Court has traditionally exercised significant restraint and deference to our duly elected legislature, our Congress.  And so the burden is on those who would overturn a law like this.

The President, of course, is once again either displaying complete ignorance or cynical hackery. Our federal Congress, per the constitution, is a Congress of enumerated powers. It may only do the things which it is authorized to do under Article 1, Section 8. The onus is always on Congress to demonstrate that its actions have fallen within one of its enumerated powers, not on a person challenging an act of Congress to demonstrate that Congress has acted without those powers. However, more importantly, as Powerline pointed out, Obama has once again also gotten his history wrong:

 Is there any truth to Obama’s claim that the Supreme Court hasn’t invalidated any statutes that are “economic” and relate to “commerce” since Lochner v. New York, which was in 1905? Of course not. To name just a few examples a great deal more recent than 1905, the Court ruled unconstitutional provisions of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act that had permitted only “for cause” removal of members of the Public Company Accounting Oversight Board in 2010; the 1990 Mushroom Promotion, Research and Consumer Information Act in 2001 (this case was actually quite similar to Obamacare because the Court held unconstitutional provisions that required mushroom growers to contribute to mushroom promotion programs); provisions of the Patent and Plant Variety Remedy Clarification Act, the Trademark Remedy Clarification Act, and the Copyright Remedy Clarification Act in 1992; the Harbor Maintenance Tax Act in 1998; the Transfer Act which authorized the transfer of operating control of Washington National Airport and Dulles International Airport from the Department of Transportation to the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority in 1991; and many, many more dating back to 1905.

Obama’s bungling on this (which has yet to be called a “gaffe” or more properly “a series of lies” by anyone I’ve yet seen in the media) prompted the Fifth Circuit yesterday to ask a DOJ lawyer who was litigating a case concerning Obamacare to clarify whether the DOJ was now taking the position that the federal judiciary did not have the power to overturn Obamacare. Some folks on the left went absolutely apopleptic over this, because it was an unusual event. Mostly, however, that is because most lawyers aren’t cursed with clients who are dumb enough to say, on the news, that the court currently deciding their case has no legitimate authority to do so. As was pointed out at Hot Air, Obama is the head of the DOJ and the Fifth Circuit was entitled to know if Obama’s statements signaled a change in the government’s position during this litigation.

One final point is in order here, which is to clarify for President Obama what is meant by an activist judiciary. An activist judiciary is not one that strikes down laws passed by Congress. An activist judiciary is one that strikes down laws passed by Congress for reasons that cannot be fairly said to be contained within the text of the Constitution, or more properly one that invents law from the bench.

Allow me to helpfully illustrate. Most conservatives were in favor (generally speaking) of the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Act, which was  passed with broad, bipartisan support in both chambers of Congress. When the Supreme Court struck this act down, I don’t recall any conservative accusing the Court of engaging in judicial activism, because the Court’s reason for striking the bill down was firmly rooted in the text of the Constitution. By way of contrast, an excellent example of judicial activism would be virtually every SCOTUS Eighth Amendment decision for the last 65 years. The plain text of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments indicate that the government can constitutionally take a person’s life (so long as he or she is afforded due process of law). At the time these amendments were enacted, capital punishment was virtually the uniform punishment for all felonies. Nonetheless, the Supreme Court has taken it upon itself to declare the death penalty unconstitutional for every crime other than murder, despite the fact that neither the text of the constitution nor history compels this result. At one point, the Supreme Court actually declared that the death penalty was unconstitutional, despite the fact that the constitution explicitly provides for the death penalty. This is what is meant by “judicial activism,” not “striking down statutes that were passed by Congress.”

It would be helpful, if the President wants to debate using conservative terms, if he took the time to understand what they meant.

COMMENTS

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    Great article.

    I’ll vote for cynical hackery.

    Thank you.
    ColdWarrior

    • ag8tor

      complete ignorance … of this and many more subjects. He evidently didn’t install people around him that are any smarter than he is. To supposedly be the “Smartest man in the World” he sure doesn’t know much about anything but lefty, “Chicago style” politics. Of course when your only real position of “leadership” is commmunity organizer, I guess your scope gets very limited. No wonder he fell for the teachings of Ayers, Wright and others. He seems easily duped. What does that say for the morons that voted for this loser?

      • texmark

        ag8tor,

        I doubt very much that this is complete ignorance on Obama’s part. There is no way that he doesn’t know what the history of the Supreme Court judgments has been. He was a “Constitutional” professor, if you remember. Even if he wasn’t paying much attention in school, he would have had to know at least a basic amount about the judgments.

        No. He was counting on the ignorance of his audience or those who ended up reading his comments. He wasn’t ignorant. He was lying.

        Joe Wilson knew.

        • hls87

          He was never a professor of anything and if he had a clue about constitutional law he wouldn’t have mentioned Lochner v. New York when he was fumbling for an example of the bad old days when conservative Justices took the Commerce Clause seriously. It’s hard to describe just how stupid that mistake is. Lochner is famous as the a key case in the development of substantive due process. It struck down a state statute (hence “New York” in the case name) and thus had less than nothing to do with the Commerce Clause.

          It’s as if a poseur pretending to expertise in English literature made a jsckass out of himself by claiming that Shakespeare was better as an epic poet than as a playwright and citing Beowulf as proof. Obama isn’t saying stupid stuff because he thinks he can sell it. He’s saying stupid stuff because he’s a stupid guy.

          • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

            but also has the Alinsky rules down pat. Regarding the comments about judicial review, he was just mouthing a “Big Lie” as Rush explained yesterday on his radio program.

            On the other hand, he’s a complete ignoramus when it comes to much knowledge about the United States and the world. He’s never had a real job. Undoubtedly he skated into his college and university stints on top of affirmative action. Did not know how to pronounce “corpsman.” Thought there was a language called “Austrian.” Couldn’t figure out how to properly toast the Queen of England. Witness the recent mash-up video of his comments about each of our allies “punching above their weight.”

            He’s a dunce on many subjects, but he does understand that he can tell a Big Lie whenever he wants and the SCUM will cover for him and most Republicans are too timid to say anything and don’t have a media strategy to get any rebuttals they might have effectively communicated to the American people.

            Thank you.

            CW

          • Melody Warbington (rwm52)

            “Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.”

  • johnt

    It would help the hustler if he had a few literate advisors, someone to spoon feed him, people who know past law and practice & willing to enunciate it, to drill it into the Dummies head so that his idiocies are a bit less offensive.
    They are not there, and if they were they would be ignored or dummie wouldn’t understand.

  • garfieldjl

    Anyone have any e-mail addresses for Justice Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Scalia, and Kennedy? I think we should all send them emails of support for standing up to Obama.

    Considering how respected the judiciary is compared to the other branches of Government, I think this isn’t a fight that Obama will win, and he’ll probably be shooting himself in the foot repeatedly.

    He keeps this up and quite honestly we could run Dick Cheney as our nominee despite how the press has demonized him, and we could win.

    • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

      You can snail mail the justices at:

      Supreme Court of the United States
      One First Street N.E.
      Washington, DC 20543

      I wrote each justice a letter after the Kelo decision in 2005: a thank you to the four in the minority, and a shame on you to the five who handed down the decision. Kelo still ranks as the second most foul smelling SCOTUS decision ever handed down.

      I am hoping that I do not have to send another nine letters this June.

  • Mr. Sandman

    knows he doesn’t have a snowball’s chance of getting re-elected if this election is about him. Liberals, in general, seem to be going flying monkey nuts lately out of the fact that the American public is starting to see them in their true colors.

    • jlsankot

      our nominee to consistently point out his disastrous record and not pander to those who would call out “racist” because of his non-white side.

  • http://conjectureandconsequence.wordpress.com tzion

    Insightful erudition Leon. Thank you.

  • johnjohn23

    As a lawyer I have to tell you Obama is correct, the legislature’s actions are always presumed constitutional and proper and the burden is on the party seeking to overturn it that it is improper. The quote Kennedy said which everyone enjoys even starts out by mentioning it:

    *”I understand that we must presume laws are constitutional*, but, even so, when you are changing the relation of the individual to the government in this, what we can stipulate is, I think, a unique way, do you not have a heavy burden of justification to show authorization under the Constitution?”

    The burden is always on the moving party to…move. The law stays as it is until a reason is shown to change it, and merely filing a lawsuit doesn’t change that.

    He’s also correct about the economics cases. Just off the top of my head I’m sure the patent and trademark cases were under the patent and copyright power, and I believe the mushroom cases were under the first amendment. Since Lochner the only cases struck down as being beyond the reach of the interstate commerce clause were the guns-in-school-zones and the Violence-Against-Women-Act cases because they both regulated acts that, even in the aggregate, would not become interstate commerce.

    So…swing and a miss on these powerline people. But I write mostly to point out that we’re doing an awful lot of counting our chickens before they are hatched. Obamacare hasn’t been struck down yet and we are not sure how much will be struck if it is found unconstitutional. I would caution against too much of this talk until a decision actually comes down. You celebrate when the game is over, not when the final touchdown is still under review.

    • JSobieski

      The presumption of Constitutionality does not require a special burden of proof to overturn. The burden is always on the plaintiff. What conservatives object to is the implication that the standard of proof is somehow beyond a preponderance of the evidence.

      This is not a clear and convincing or a reasonable doubt case. Suggesting that there is some special heightened standard is misleading, and that is what Obama is doing.

      • gazill

        the assessment in your signature (disappointment better than disaster) perfectly sums up how I feel, but have not (until now) been able to effectively communicate. I thank you.

        • JSobieski

          nt

      • johnjohn23

        The bolded part is “And so the burden is on those who would overturn a law like this.” Obama’s statement is true. The burden is on the states to show that there is unconstitutionality. Leon says the burden is on Congress.

        “The onus is always on Congress to demonstrate that its actions have fallen within one of its enumerated powers, not on a person challenging an act of Congress to demonstrate that Congress has acted without those powers.” is a facially untrue statement in every respect. Congress never has an obligation to explain what power it is using. In fact, Congress isn’t even given a role in the procedure, it’s the executive that defends the law. But if you ignore the very important separation of powers issue (which I think defenders of DOMA would dislike you for) and expand Leon’s statement from “the Congress” to “the Federal Government” it STILL isn’t under a burden to explain itself until the plaintiffs go forward with their burden first.

        You’re right about trademark, so I went looking for a case. I assume the case being referenced is New Star Lasers, Inc. v. Regents of the University of California, which appears to be struck down in part because it subjected states to lawsuits and violated sovereign immunity. So this is not an interstate commerce case either, it’s an 11th amendment case. This, like the mushroom case and the patent case and I would assume every other case on the list, was not struck down as being beyond the reach of the ICC, which, as the president notes, since the New Deal has not seemed to have any limits on economic activity.

        W.r.t. standard of review, Obama specifically references judicial restraint, he’s not talking about standard of review. I agree with you there is no heightened standard.

        That 5th circuit judge made an ass of himself, asking a lawyer for a 3page single spaced letter when he had no reason to. It does not help the cause to crow about this stuff. We may be conservatives but we’re lawyers too and it ought to give pause that his actions disgust someone on his own political side.

        • JSobieski

          you should give the author the benefit of the doubt and presume that the burden on Congress is a political and intellectual burden in an abstract sense, and not a litigation burden analogous to burden of persuasion.

          I agree with you that as conservatives take hope in the prospects of Obamacare being invalidated by the SCt, that judicial overreach is nonetheless a very real issue. We should take care not to overly embrace all Courts are King arguments since the Supreme Court is not King.

          On that very basis, I argued yesterday that we could amend the Constitution to allow Congress or maybe even the states a mechanism by which to vacate the precedent of a SCt decision (an idea put forth by among other people, Judge Bork).

          I confess that Obama lies and misdirects so much on the issue of Obamacare, that I am not going to police those on our side. If no other economic legislation has been overturned since the New Deal, I would point out that as Obama himself crowed, his health care legislation is the most dramatic legislation since . . the New Deal.

          Obama can’t honestly argue at the same time that Obamacare is dramatic new change on the legal landscape while at the same time using mundane legislation to protect it in the courts.

          The healthcare debate generally speaking has been of even lower quality than the political debate generally. The issue of Obamacare is so dangerous, that I am going to prioritize my efforts accordingly.

          That said, there is some truth in what you are saying.

          • johnjohn23

            Well I agree with you in this, the thing Obama assumes in these statements is that what is being regulated is economic activity. There is no case saying that, and that is what is special and unique. But if you assume that it is economic activity, there is nothing special about this case at all. That’s why his statements are so cut-and-dry correct, the assumes the main issue in the case. But that doesn’t change the fact that his statements are cut-and-dry correct.

          • JSobieski

            His statements are misleading, not cut and dried.

            On the one hand Obamacare is the greatest development since the New Deal, and on the other hand it is synonymous with Air Traffic Safety?

            Cut and dried does not describe what Obama is saying.

          • johnjohn23

            Well like I said, he’s assuming the main point of contention.

            A) Does making someone buy health insurance qualify as ICC economic activitiy? <— the issue that makes obamacare unique/important

            B) Does the federal government have wide latitude in regulating ICC economic activity, and has the federal government's power always been upheld over the past 80 years? Yes, no question.

            He assumes A, then discusses B correctly. It is wrong for him to assume A. That doesn't change the fact that B is correct. Leon cannot argue B, B is bedrock legal fact. A is what is going to cause the law to be struck down, A is what Obama is wrong on, not B.

          • gekster

            n/t means “no text”
            That means that there is no text in the comment box, and the whole of the comment is in the title box.
            Just a heads up.
            (and it is irritating)

          • johnjohn23

            I thought n/t was just no text here. I can’t really think of comment titles when I’m just replying to people.

            Sorry :P

          • gekster

            Just put part of your first sentance in the title box, like a teaser.

            (just being informative here, no complaints) ;)

          • JSobieski

            Its like presuming someone is guilty of a crime to discuss the administrative matter of which prison they will be sent to.

            It isn’t as bad as “the meaning of is’” but it is nonetheless a statement worth of proportional ridicule since that is precisely how Obama used it.

        • hls87

          The President speaks for the executive, including the DOJ. When he announces without qualification that his pet statute should be exempt from judicial review the court is entitled to know whether that’s the government’s official position or merely a particularly noxious bit of demagoguery from a two-bit, hack politician.. What better way to find out than to ask for an answer in writing.

          As a former DOJ attorney, I can tell you with certainty that the 5th Circuit kicked over a hornet’s nest at Justice. If nothing else it gave Eric Holder and his merry gang of thugs an hour or two of heartburn. It couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of guys.

          • johnjohn23

            Well I don’t think that he did say it should be exempt from judicial review, but lets assume he did. The issue can be disposed of with his honor’s initial question: Are you now arguing that Marbury is not law? The response is no. That is it.

            If there is a genuine issue of law the court should ask whether it is in argument or otherwise say “I find the issue of whether I have jurisdiction to be unclear” and require supplemental briefs from both sides on the issue. The court isn’t supposed to be concerning itself with statements outside of its courtroom anyway, but if it does the solution is not to order some random justice attorney to provide him with a single-spaced 3pg paper within 48 hours from one side only. The fact that it’s from one side shows that it’s not really deliberative and is really only to punish an unrelated person for the statements of a president he lacks the constitutional power to reprimand. The judge should be reprimanded.

            That’s kind of like if your boss met your wife and found her to be childish, so he orders you to turn in your next report in crayon. It says more about your boss than your wife.

            See how you’re making me defend Obama? That’s how silly its being.

          • johnt

            and if not, why bother? The O did not say it is beyond review, he denigrated the Court for exercising review, & in the absence of a decision. Any other hairs to split while making no difference?

          • hls87

            You are arguing, with malice aforethought, that it’s inappropriate for a judge to demand that the DOJ explain Obama’s idiocy? Sorry to be blunt, but that’s stupid.

            The President speaks for the executive branch, including its lawyers. When he exhibits contempt for the judiciary, as he did yesterday, it is entirely appropriate for judges to demand an explanation from any government lawyer who happens to be before them. It’s also appropriate to maximize the lawyers’ discomfiture by demanding that they do it in writing and at sufficient length that they can’t do it perfunctorily.

            The fact that Obama spoke out of court is irrelevant. If a DA were to announce, out of court, that the judge in a bench trial would find a particular defendant guilty unless he had accepted a bribe, the assistant trying the case would certainly have to offer an explanation when next he appeared in court. That would be the least of it. When the head of the DOJ flirts with contempt of court, the whole DOJ answers for it. That’s just the way it is.

            Don’t waste your time defending either Obama or his DOJ. They’re both indefensible.

          • johnjohn23

            Yes, i am arguing (though not with malice aforethought, since that doesn’t apply in this context) that it is inappropriate for him to do what he did. First off, the judges know that polticians make political speak, and second, they know that political speak is protected. Gingritch said that the judiciary that decided Prop 8 should be hauled before Congress and made to answer for their decisions or else face jail. Perry complained of runaway judges stopping Arizona’s immigration law. Bush complained of the ruling that gave Guantanamo prisons some rights, does that mean that every judge hearing every case to which the federal government was a party is to immediately make the lawyers on that case write up some homework that they have the power to do what they’ve obviously had the power to do for 200 years? The judiciary is subject to scrutiny like any other branch of government and is likewise subject to the first amendment. People complain, but if they don’t complain in court it’s not an issue. This is wholly different than accusing the judge hearing a case of bribery (which, btw, would probably make that judge recuse himself regardless).

            A judge can’t “maximize the lawyers’ discomfiture” (first, why the lawyer, it’s not her fault?) for speech it doesn’t like any more than a cop can start beating you because you call him a pig. The judges’ job is to decide the case before him. He asked the attorney, she said it was not being argued, that’s the end.

            But let’s say you’re right, that this judge was seriously disturbed about his jurisdiction. If that’s the case, he has procedures to follow. Everyone gets the same procedure, that’s what due process is. That procedure is to have each side brief the issue so he has both sides to consider and rule upon. In this case, since both sides would agree he has jurisdiction, he’d have to court appoint another attorney to brief the jurisdiction issue independently. If you listened to the Supreme Court oral argument you would have heard this done several times on issues both litigants agreed about. Briefs are necessary because they have citation and argument that is necessary to the judicial process, asking for a 3pg letter provides none.

            If you are right, then the Supreme Court MUST, MUST reopen argument in their case to determine if they have jurisdiction. And if that were an issue, and they were to decide they have none, then the lower courts would have none either, and the law would stand as constitutional.

            The whole premise of your post shows you how wrong this judge is. You’re viewing this as a political fight, it shouldn’t be. This judge is supposed to be impartial. He makes the whole judiciary look bad by pulling a stunt like this.

            The judge simply doesn’t have the issue before him, he just wants to take it out on a random lawyer who is just doing their job and may not even like Obama. That’s like yelling at your mailman because you think the war in Afghanistan is being handled badly.

          • hls87

            Obama is not some random politician he is the President of the United States. He speaks for the executive branch. When he takes a position on a question of law that is the executive branch’s position and it is the job of every government lawyer to defend that position. They all work for him.

            When the executive branch officially insults the judiciary, as Obama clearly did with his ham-handed effort to influence a matter pending before the Supreme Court and his idiotic musings on constitutional law, it is perfectly appropriate for the judiciary to respond. The response is appropriately addressed to any lawyer who happens to be serving as Obama’s mouthpiece. If one doesn’t want to defend Obama, one shouldn’t work for him.

            There is no issue of any Court’s jurisidiction here. The judge isn’t concerned about jurisdiction, he’s looking for the executive branch officially and in writing to climb down and apologize for the President’s outrageous behavior, and there is absolutely nothing inappropriate about that.

            Apparently you don’t understand anything about separation of powers, the nature of the executive branch, or the proper role of the judiciary in the constitutional order. If you did, you couldn’t write any of the above. It is nonsense, pure and simple.

          • streiff

            Obama is not “some politician” engaging in “political speak [sic]” hes the chief law enforcement officer of the United States and the clown in the courtroom is one of his minions. The judge has the right to determine if the entire proceeding is a waste of time.

          • johnjohn23

            The judge has the right to determine if the proceeding is a waste of his time. But if he honestly believes that is in question, then there are procedures for arguing the issue. They do not include taking-to-task some mid-level unappointed attorney (who probably started practicing under the Bush administration btw, but it’s not a political position) by making her deliver 3pg single spaced paper in 48 hrs that I’m sure she herself will have to write.

            But we all know he doesn’t consider it to be a real question, because if it is a real question both he and the Supreme Court have an obligation to appoint an independent counsel to argue the issue since the court must assure itself that it has valid jurisdiction even if both parties want to be there. Really the judge wants to make a fool of the president…The president doesn’t need his help to look like a fool. It may make people here feel good but it damages the judiciary and my chosen profession.

            It reflects poorly on the court, it makes life harder for a random lawyer just trying to do her job, and it makes the judiciary seem partisan against Obama precisely when it should appear to be the most rational and fairminded.

            This is something the left doesn’t get and I hope I don’t start seeing it here on the right: The law in this country should function the same no matter what the political view of people stepping in front of it. Obama will be judged in the court of public opinion. The judiciary, as part of it’s job, is to be dispassionate. If he insults them, they shouldn’t care. If he’s their best buddy, they shouldn’t care. Because in either case the job of the court is to determine if the law passed is allowed by the Constitution, and I see no talk of Republican or Democrat or Respect or anything else in that equation. It is antithetical to free speech to suggest you only get the protection of the executive if you respect it, or that your rights will only be upheld in court if you show it reverence. I have said before and I say again that Larry Flynt got a defense and won in the Supreme Court. Terror suspects have won in the Supreme Court. The job of the judiciary is to be dispassionate. This was not that.

          • gekster

            :)

          • hls87

            A DOJ attorney appearing in a federal court is never “a random lawyer just trying to do her job.” She is the mouthpiece of the executive branch, Obama’s emmissary and surrogate. When she appears it is no different than if Obama were there in person.

            When the executive branch spews idiocy on a question of law before the courts, it is perfectly appropriate for the courts to demand that the executive branch explain itself whenever one of its lawyers is before a federal judge. Federal courts are a coordinate, coequal branch of government and that’s one way to carry on a constitutional conversation with the executive which is an important part of the federal judiciary’s job..

            As with so much else, you are confused about what it means for a Judge to be dispassionate. The judicial obligation to be fair doesn’t mean that judges can’t use their inherent powers to smack down the executive when it tries to intrude on judicial prerogatives. If Obama is going to strut aroundlike an uglier and less articulate version of Hugo Chavez ineptly instructing the courts in their business, it is incumbent on the courts to respond. They have the inherent power to do so every time the DOJ has to appear before them. There is nothing in the Code of Judicial Responsibility or in our constitutional practice that should make them hesitate to do so.

          • johnjohn23

            The argument being made on this site and others is to take his words literally, that the court literally does not have the power to declare a law unconstitutional. In other words, you claim he is saying the court lacks jurisdiction. If you agree he is not attacking the court’s jurisdiction, then the courts actions have no merit in any sense.

            If the judge was plausibly questioning the jurisdiction then at least there is SOMETHING the court should do, but it’s not to make one of his “minions” (as if a federal lawyer is his hand chosen successor or something, she’s just a woman doing a job, it’s not a political appointment position) do a 3pg homework assignment with no legal merit.

            When Rick Perry says he believes social security is unconstitutional, should every federal judge handling any social security matter in the state of Texas order one of Texas’ state attorneys to get a 3pg paper from Perry on the already-settled law of the constitutionality of SS? Or maybe should they limit their discussion to the issues actually presented before them? It’s not appropriate for the judiciary to attack a political position they don’t agree with if the issue is not before the court. It makes the court appear partisan and demeans the court.

            If the issue isn’t raised, it shouldn’t be discussed. The judge felt the need to raise it, and the federal attorney said it wasn’t in play. Ok fine. But then the judge went further. Except in going further the proper step is to appoint an independent attorney who WOULD actually argue that the court lacks the jurisdiction to declare the law unconstitutional. And if THIS court does it, then the Supreme Court should reopen argument and do it too. The improper step would be to punish a random lawyer for the actions of the president.

            I find your idea of separation of powers confusing, because nobody considers it to insulate one branch from citicism by another. In fact, I (and pretty much everyone else, including the founding fathers) would tell you that is the point of having multiple branches to begin with, to check each other.

          • Jack_Savage

            He’s the President. That’s why the argument is being made, quite effectively, by his87. He’s not some random guy that is running for the nomination, or a backbench leftist jackass in Congress. He is the President, he has authority, he sets policy, and he needs to answer for his position.

            Thank God someone in this country has the courage to stand up to this idiot thug lawyer wanna be.

          • johnjohn23

            Well I don’t see how it matters if he’s the president or a pauper. Either he is making the argument in court or he isn’t. If he makes the argument then it gets considered and agreed with or rejected. If he doesn’t make the argument the court really has no business seeking out the issue.

            It was wrong to say the argument being made on this site, since the argument was made by the judge himself. If the judge thinks the president’s out-of-court statement raised an issue, he can, and did, ask the government’s attorney and confirm if the issue is raised. When the attorney said no, it really is not the judge’s place to go after the issue any more simply because he didn’t like the out of court statement.

          • Jack_Savage

            The President was making the argument that the courts don’t have the right to overturn laws. The President sets policy for his Justice Department. The judge asked a question of clarification from the President’s attorney, and for the record asked for written confirmation. Simple as that.

            One thing in life I have learned. Don’t screw with a judge. Ever.

            Looks like Obama and his little mouthpieces are gonna have to learn that one the hard way.

            “Co-equal”. You and your fellow Obama supporters need to tattoo that on the back of your hands. It’s going to come up a lot in the near future.

          • johnt

            Only under threat of force or ascertainable conflict of interst can a judge be removed from a case.
            The random lawyer is representing the Presidency, the administration. He did not walk in off the street, randomly.
            The issue is right under his nose, a public attack on the judiciary by a Chicago low life. Your position is that the president can speak out about the entire judiciary, and ignore history in the process, but a judge lacks the same latitude, though both are federal officers, only one has this right. Moreover, in no sense does the judges comments prejudice the case at hand.
            You say “Bush complained of the ruling”, really? You mean after the case was decided and not before ? Do you note a difference, that is the difference between “before’ & “after”?
            If a representative of the presidency is before him how is it the judge does not have the right to comment on that representatives superior who is attacking that very federal bench, that very federal branch?
            The judge, to note your idiotic 3rd para, does not HAVE to do anything in line with your “procedures” comment. He can, and the proof being in the pudding as it were, did and will continue with the case.
            Though I would be amenable to hearing you call for Obama resigning for his part in this. Just a thought.

          • johnjohn23

            The idea that the courts can declare a law duly passed by Congress is not textually in the Constitution. The judiciary rightfully gave itself that power. Obama’s comments, according to this judge, call that 200year old practice into question. The judge is saying “Well Obama claims I lack the power to decide this case (jurisdiction) and call this law unconstitutional, do I?”

            The lawyer for the government responds “You obviously do have the power to decide the case, no question.”

            So the judge responds “Hmm, that’s not enough, go get a 3pg paper from your boss, explaining with particularity that I have jurisdiction.”

            Now putting aside the fact the judge obviously believes he has jurisdiction and that he’s screwing this lawyer for something that is not of her doing at all, what he asked to be done doesn’t even purport to solve the issue. He is going fully outside of his power just to try and stick it to Obama. Except it’s not Obama in front of him, it’s a lawyer who probably joined not during this administration, but during Bush’s. Either way it’s not a political position, she may be Republican for all you know.

            The reason the President can speak out but the judge cannot is because the judge, as part of his job description, is supposed to be dispassionate and fair. Obama has no such restriction. If people don’t like Obama he will be out when voting comes around, but the same cannot be said for the judge. They’re both federal officers yes, but they have two wildly different jobs.

            Let’s say you think that abortion was decided incorrectly, and you went on tv and said “The justices are INSANE, there is no way that there is a constitutional right to an abortion.” Do you think it would be fair if next time you were in court a liberal judge said “I’m not convinced you don’t think we’re insane, write me a 3page paper about why I’m not insane or I will toss your case.”?

          • Jack_Savage

            How does this:
            “I find your idea of separation of powers confusing, because nobody considers it to insulate one branch from citicism by another. In fact, I (and pretty much everyone else, including the founding fathers) would tell you that is the point of having multiple branches to begin with, to check each other.”

            reconcile with this above:
            “The reason the President can speak out but the judge cannot is because the judge, as part of his job description, is supposed to be dispassionate and fair.”

          • johnjohn23

            Come on guys, you’re just trying to make issues here. You know as well as I do that judges get to criticisize the constitutionality of the other branches in their decisions, when all the evidence is in, deliberations have been had, precedent considered. But most importantly it is on issues that are before them. Look you agree it would be wrong if as soon as the law was passed if Kagan had gone on tv and said “Don’t bother trying to fight this in court, it’s obviously constitutional” right? The question of whether they have constitutional power to strike down the law isn’t before them, and the lawyer for the government says directly that, when asked point-blank, and still the judge goes and assigns this just for spite.

          • johnt

            Speaking of insane! How is the judge out of line speaking from the bench, ex temporare? Judges do this constantly, and why can he not query a representative of the Executive office who has just questioned the very legality of Court Review, which in your desperation you refer to, a more than 200 year old tradition and practice. and then ignore. Screwing the lawyer? The presidents lawyer and speaking for the President? Can you grasp this? Hey nut, we did this!! All of it. So the judge questions a person representing an executive who denies and lies about review and you fault the judge? Does the judge not have the right to query the authority of the representative before him after Obama’s drivel? Is not a written statement part of a written record?, not avoidable and for the public, for considered review?
            Pathetic, the President is not supposed to to be dispassionate? Not to defer comment pending a decision? Not to respect the three branches.
            Hey pal, blather gets you nowhere, nor does dishonest evasion. I will continue this until you feel the encroachment of disgrace.
            Back tomorrow, bet on it.
            Please don’t waste my time.

          • johnjohn23

            Your facts are incomplete. I agree the judge might want to bring it up, though he knew that really the president didn’t suggest the court had no power to review, but okay, he can bring it up. He asks the attorney if review is being argued and the attorney says no. So now its in the record that the issue is not before the court. Now the court really has no business questioning further on the issue because it’s not before him. But he wants to make a show of it, and he is making it not of the President who made the comment but of some poor random attorney. It’s not “his” attorney, it’s the government’s attorney, and it’s not a political position, and it’s not the attorney’s fault the president said it, and it’s not in the case, but he wants to make trouble for the attorney just to be a jerk.

            I don’t understand what I’m hiding from? He asks the attorney if judicial review is being argued, the attorney says no, and he assigns not a brief on the issue of judicial review, but a useless letter. How is this not inappropriate to you? Why not assign a poem about the Equal Protection clause while you’re at it, that makes just as much sense.

            The judge can ask for argument and analysis on issues before him. It’s not an issue before him and what he is asking for is not argument or analysis.

            If I was the lawyer I would just go home and do nothing and then tell him I couldn’t get a letter. And then he really couldn’t do anything about it, because what he is asking for has no legal justification.

          • johnt

            The judge can bring it up you say, but he can’t speak freely? We did the bit about the attorney representing the Exec branch, stop with the tears. Obviously the letter is a shot across the bow aimed at a man who has willfully lied and defamed a branch of government. You may not like the judges manners but you have no problem with Obama’s lie? The fact that you don’t like what the judge said is irelevant, come on, chin up, stiff upper lip. The judge is not constrained to saying only what johnjohn approves of, we did that also. And BTW, it is the heart of the matter that what Obama said was critical of judicial review, though I compliment your attempts to read the judges mind
            This is now repetitive, repetitive is boring, you are boring, I do not like boredom.

          • hls87

            you’d be cited for contempt and very rapidly discover just how empty your argument it.

          • windwaker24

            Perhaps you go over to Greta Van Sustren’s blog and explain it to her because she is over there having a hissy fit!

          • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

            Annnnd that’ll do it for me, Sparky.

            Psst.

            Come closer.

            Closer.

            Yeah, that’s perfect.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip7QZPw04Ks

            Freaking concern trolls.

        • unclefred

          Obama’s statement seemed to imply that the burden was on the court not on those who brought the case. He seemed to be telling the court that the burden to find this case unconstitutional is higher than is others. Is it?

          Either the commerce clause of the constitution empowers the federal government to force, under penalty, private parties to enter into contracts which must meet government stipulated conditions or it does not.

          “Can the government force commerce so that it can regulate it?” Justice Kennedy stated that this seemed to alter the relationship between the citizen and the government and asked if such a change did not require a greater justification.

          I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me that Obama has this exactly backwards. The case arrives before the court with the presumption of constitutionality which is set aside when the opponents reveal a fundamental flaw in how it defines commerce.

          Further because the government is unable to provided a limiting principle to government power under their definition, it effectively eliminates the enumerated powers. The burden of demonstrating that the law remains constitutional is commensurate with removing the constitutional limits that the constitution was written to impose on the government.

          As for the 5th circuit. As a lawyer would you allow for a moment your client to stand on the court house steps and make thinly veiled threats against the court where you were appearing on his behalf? Don’t you think the judge might have a few things to say about it?

          Was the 5th circuit’s action ill considered? Perhaps, but this was the administration’s opening salvo in a line of attack that would have been continually ramped up until June. It would have been unseemly for the SCOTUS to engage, so a federal circuit court fired a shot across the administration’s bow. The SCOTUS stands aloof, and the administration has to answer the central question in a way that guts their notion of running against the courts.

          • johnjohn23

            Well burdens are different in different cases, but in this case what he was referring to is two things:

            1) The burden is on the party seeking to invalidate the law. If it’s a coin flip, the law stays.

            2) One of the ways the law could be constitutional is to be found that it is allowed by the necessary and proper clause. The test for that clause is something of a balancing test. Obama’s argument is that the law is an important law that is a large rewrite of the economy, and that is something that should be taken into account in the balancing of the N&P clause. I don’t think there is much argument on this, it’s just that conservative justices would tout the personal liberty factor of that balancing test more than the deference to congress factor. This is something we disagree with him on, but it’s not something that makes him insane for saying.

            Some people are positing a third argument, that he is literally saying the court doesn’t have power to do this. That is red-faced silly. It would be a rejection of the most basic tenets of law and he is a law professor. If he was saying that people should rightfully go insane about it, but he’s not, and nobody involved, including the 5th circuit judge, believes that he is. If the judge believed that, he would be obligated to act differently than he has. Instead, the judge is grandstanding for no particular reason other than to make our judiciary look stupid and make a federal employee, not Obama’s buddy or anything, but just some random federal lawyer, do more work.

      • davesinsanantonio

        This could be the best bumper sticker, one-liner, soundbite of the general election. You should copyright it and make millions.

        555555!!!!!!

    • hls87

      although characteristically inarticulate and sloppy (Lochner?!), if his point is that since the New Deal the Court has shown very little interest in policing the boundaries of congressional power under the Commerce Clause. That’s true, but irrelevant. Just because the Court has been remiss about enforcing certain aspects of the Constitution in the past doesn’t mean that it can’t, or even shouldn’t, do so in the future.

      The Court isn’t bound by its own precedent, except in the loose sense that it doesn’t want the law to be chaotic. It commonly takes a wrong turn and has to adjust course in subsequent cases. Taken to its logical conclusion, the S.Ct.’s Commerce Clause precedent would turn the Constitution upside down and inside out by eliminating all meaningful limits on federal power. A government of limited power would become a government of unlimitecd power. Obamacare brings to a boil the long-simmering question — have events overtaken the constitutional plan for a limited federal government? There is no rational argument that this question is foreclosed by our constitutional history. Everyone of normal intelligence should understand that, but our supposedly brilliant President doesn’t.

      Obama believes that the federal government is empowered to do whatever Congress feels like authorizing it to do, the Constitution notwithstanding, and he feels no obligation (or perhaps has no capacity) to argue in defense of this belief. He asserts it and expects people to fall in line..

      If anything, his remarks today were more offensive and idiotic than those he made yesterday., which takes some doing.

      • JSobieski

        Individual mandates are a new thing, and to pretend they are not is to do what Obama always does–create straw man arguments to impugn the good faith intentions of your opposition.

        Clinton and Carter were annoying, but they were not close to the straw man annihilators that Obama is. Obama is intellectually lazy, and never actually confronts conserative arguments.

        • hls87

          It would kidnap Obama and try him for crimes against strawmanity, a la Adolph Eichmann. He doesn’t just annihilate straw men. He murders them en mass with industrial efficiency.

          You are exactly right. Obamacare presents a case of first impression and, by definition, any result in such a case is unprecedented. If the Court couldn’t reach unprecedented results it couldn’t decide the case at all.

          There is an argument for the proposition that the Court should uphold Obamacare, but there isn’t one for the proposition that it is bound to do so. Obama is trying to express the idea that it would somehow be inappropriate for the Court to strike down the ACA but he just can’t string together a coherent defense of that idea because it’s not rationally defensible. The harder Obama tries to browbeat the Court, the more he looks like a clueless dolt. He’s talking nonsense and he doesn’t seem to know it.

  • http://www.timothy-bladel.com/ center77

    decided to attempt to change what is already there to mean what they want it to mean. That’s why Obama pointed to various precedents rather than the actual wording in the constitution.

  • Thomas_Hauber

    You should also add that an activist judge is one who changes the definition of a common word or the common and/or historical understanding of a concept.

    Take marriage for example. Ten years ago I bet that no one could have found a judge, let alone a federal judge who would have said that marriage could be defined as anything but between a man and a woman.

  • flguy

    I do not believe that this man is uber intelligent as so many others (even many conservatives) give him credit for being. I do not believe that he is any kind of Constitutional scholar, that he got his positions through hook and crook and not by actual accomplishment (probably why they will NOT release his transcripts nor his college papers). I have seen no indication of his supposed great intelligence, nor have I heard a single speech by him that I would call great. He does not know our Constitution nor does he know its history; he only parrots what he has heard from Dorn, Ayers, etc. It is therefore no wonder that he issues such incredibly clueless statements, statements that the students I have taught over the years in government/politics class would be ashamed to have made.

    • avagreen

      Exactly!

      A puppet dolt.

      • davesinsanantonio

        both puppets and dolts.

  • http://barbershopvalues.com daconia

    The left have believed since FDR that all one has to do is utter the magic words, “the commerce clause,” and the court will OK whatever they want. I think they are stunned that the magic words might not work in this case. Without the magic words, their whole agenda is at risk.

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