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Perry v. Schwarzennegger: A Proposition

Judge-Proofing Marriage

A judge-proof marriage amendment (I think).

Whereas marriage in the state of [state] is recognized as providing the best and most stable environment for the procreation and upbringing of children, only marriage between a man and a woman, who do not share the same parent or parents, and none of whose parents share the same parent or parents, and neither of whom is a parent or sibling of a parent, or otherwise a direct descendant of the other, is valid or recognized in [state].

Judge Vaughn Walker’s Perry v. Schwarzenegger decision is being hailed as a sweeping victory for same-sex marriage advocates and crushing blow to supporters of the traditional definition of marriage as it has been since the existence of the institution. The conventional wisdom is that this is the first step to making same-sex marriage a civil right in all of the 50 states and Territories.

Unfortunately, it would seem that the conventional wisdom is right. For marriage proponents, appealing the decision to the notoriously liberal 9th Circuit is almost certainly a waste of time, a mere formality – they’re almost certainly going to uphold the decision which would take it up to the Supreme Court, where Justice Anthony Kennedy is very likely to come down on the side of fashionable elite opinion.

They should appeal anyway.

But that’s about as far as they should continue to play by the rules. My recommendation, unless otherwise prevented by the California Constitution is for marriage proponents to mount up another campaign to get another Amendment proposition on the ballot as soon as possible before Perry v. Schwarzenegger makes its way to the Supreme Court.

This time, they should word the Amendment specifically to address Judge Walker’s “findings of fact.” Most especially his “finding of fact” that basically declares that children have no bearing on the institution of marriage.

As I’ve maintained over and over on RedState, the only way a court can mandate a states to recognize same-sex marriages is by discounting the central role children play as the raison d’etre of institution i.e. to tie a man to his offspring and their mother to provide the most stable and sustaining environment in which to raise them. The fact is that the decoupling of procreation with marriage within many inner city communities is perhaps the primary cause of the devastation one finds there.

Ultimately though, once the role of children is discounted, there is simply no valid reason why any state would refuse an incestuous couple i.e. brother-sister, mother-son, father-daughter, father-son, sister-sister, mother-daughter, etc. who are both consenting adults a marriage license.

I therefore recommend marriage proponents in California quickly get another Proposition on the ballot and this time make sure to add the provision against incest, and an explicit whereas statement;

Whereas marriage in the state of California is recognized as providing the best and most stable environment for the procreation and upbringing of children, only marriage between a man and a woman, who do not share the same parent or parents, and none of whose parents share the same parent or parents, and neither of whom is a parent or sibling of a parent, or otherwise a direct descendant of the other, is valid or recognized in California.

I submit that it would be one hell of a task for any judge to claim that children are irrelevant to marriage so gays should be allowed to marry while siblings should not be allowed to marry because their children could have genetic abnormalities.

Another twist of the Gordian Knot would be that the judge would be forced by necessity to address the issue of same-sex siblings who want to marry. They cannot have children so there is no reason to deny them a marriage license – which incidentally would bump up against the 14th Amendment.

COMMENTS

  • acat

    because there are enough blind adoptions and bastards (in the literal sense of the word) out there …

    Mew

  • coldair

    The only sure way to do away with Judge-made law, is to do away with Judges who make law – and replace them with Judges that respect existing law.

    And the best way to do that is to stop voting for these ninnies who appoint activist judges (or, if judges are elected, to stop electing them). Activist judges are simply part of the Liberal Apparatus designed to buy votes from the beneficiaries of their activism. Elect people who believe in individual responsibility and end appointment of judges who remove the need for responsibility.

    The fact is that gay couples do not raise children responsibly – they raise them selfishly. It is probably true that gay-couple children are raised with love and all the material things they need (or even want). That does not mean they are raised in the best way to become part of an enterprising society – they are raised to give pleasure and comfort to their parents.

    Illustration: a child is with parents, and takes a tumble at the mall; boo-boo results. It is the mother’s role to comfort and console. It is the father’s role to tell the child to get up and “shake it off”. The child needs both those role models in order to function well in society. Gay couples are almost never equipped to fill this need.

    That is an illustration of the reason judges need to let society alone, and let it function as it has for hundreds of years without the need for some elitist to reform it overnight. Activists buy votes, but do not improve society.

    • http://www.FranBaker.com frankieb

      Because the left will continue to sue until they find a court that will rule in their favor.

  • melvinwinter

    http://optoons.blogspot.com/2010/08/judge-holds-divorcing-constitution-is.html

  • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

    I came to this thread thinking this would be a comparison between Texas and Cali’s Governors.

    Here is the REAL problem: The law itself doesn’t need the justification, but it needs to be defended – in the media, in the courts, in the churches, in academia, etc.

    The defenders of prop 8 did a poor job, and the ‘gatekeepers’ like Cali’s AG are part of the ‘elites’ who are wanting to let this happen.

    But fundamentally, those who defend marriage cannot just rest on “its popular” or on religious faith (th ejudge tossed that out of the courtroom). You eally think a man and a woman are best for raising children? Prove it, show it, make the case.

    It’s time we make the case for traditional marriage to the modern secularist elites who want to toss it aside.

    • http://www.2010blog.net jsanzone

      Even if they prove that a “man and a woman are best for raising children,” that’s not enough. That doesn’t prove that two men or two women are incompetent, or detrimental. If you wanted to prove that, then you’d have to. But if that’s what you believe, I wouldn’t count on the pro-Prop 8 legal team, who managed to prove nothing but personal moral bias.

  • jackhammer

    what about the Amish?

    But honestly, in Muslim countries more than 1/3 of marriages are cousin to cousin. I know that is was rather common in the farming communities in rural europe up to abotu 100 years ago as well.

    I hate to admit it, but in my current in law family there are 2 cousins (both of their moms are sisters) and they have 2 kids. The doctors say one generation of such “inbreeding” is considered safe, multiple generations are when the dangers start. So you could probably fight it on the basis of weak scientific proof of necessity.

    • Martin Knight

      Whereas marriage in the state of California is recognized as providing the best and most stable environment for the procreation and upbringing of children, only marriage between a man and a woman, who do not share the same parent or parents, and neither of whom is a parent or sibling of a parent, or otherwise a direct descendant of the other, is valid or recognized in California.

      Either way, if Vaughn Walker had been faced with this as the Amendment in question, he’d have had a major problem on his hands trying to reach the decision he had planned to reach from the onset.

      • hellome

        does your law make it illegal for a man and a woman to marry if they are not intending to have children (maybe the man has already had a vasectomy, for instance)? what about widows and widowers who sometimes remarry at advanced ages, and also have no chance at producing children?

        • hellome

          your law makes it clear that marriage is for producing and raising children – so when a barren woman or a man with a vasectomy is married, and gets certain tax benefits associated with marriage, i should be able to sue them because they are extracting benefits from society without any plans to use marriage for its statutory purpose?

          • Martin Knight

            … only marriage between a man and a woman who not closely related would be recognized by the state. It simply restates what have been the principal guiding laws about marriage for millenia.

            So no, you wouldn’t be able to sue them.

            That said, I have some questions for you that gay marriage supporters so far have run away from like a bat out of hell whenever I bring them up. I hope you’d have the courage to stay and answer it.

            Do you support incestuous marriage given both parties are consenting adults i.e. a 30 year old brother and his 28 year old sister? Yes or no? If no, and in light of your support for same-sex marriage, why?

          • hellome

            marriage is usually a symbol of a commitment which includes physical love (i.e., sex).

            i have a problem not only with brothers and sisters marrying, but having sexual relations at all. the result of a brother-sister sexual relationship is the dramatically increased likelihood of a genetically unfortunate child, which is not fair to the child.

            now, on the other hand i have no issue at all with gay people having sex outside the confines of marriage, which follows into not having a problem with them marrying.

            beyond the point made above, i find the argument itself to be fairly specious – there is no large swath of the country which is hoping to be able to marry their siblings. even if gay people are only 1% of this country, that’s 3 million people. my guess is that the people who are truly and singularly sexually devoted to their siblings number closer to 3 than 3 million.

          • Martin Knight

            … or so we’ve been told by gay marriage advocates and Judge Vaughn Walker in his decision, so what does it matter one way or the other whether or not the brother-sister pairing produces a child – genetically compromised or not? That’s a double standard. And besides, what if the incestuous couple is homosexual i.e. father-son, brother-brother?

            i have a problem not only with brothers and sisters marrying, but having sexual relations at all … now, on the other hand i have no issue at all with gay people having sex outside the confines of marriage, which follows into not having a problem with them marrying.

            Which just means that you’re prejudiced against incest – basically, you think it’s “yucky”. But according to gay marriage activists and Judge Walker in his Perry decision, societal disapproval is an invalid reason to deny anyone the right to marry whom they want. Besides, wasn’t this exactly what people were saying about gays within living memory? Is societal approval suddenly enough?

            What makes your having a problem with brothers Jack and Jim having sex any different from you having a problem with Henry and Homer who are not related, having sex?

            beyond the point made above, i find the argument itself to be fairly specious – there is no large swath of the country which is hoping to be able to marry their siblings.

            I think you’re a bit confused about the concept of “rights”. It’s not dependent on numbers. Even if only Mildred Jeter and Richard Loving (of Loving v. Virginia) were the only interracial couple in America who wanted to get married, the state of Virginia was wrong to deny that to them.

            In other words, siblings William and Gretchen’s right to have their marriage recognized by the state is not made any stronger by them being one out of a million sibling couples, or made any weaker by them being the only sibling couple desiring to be married.

          • hellome

            you are correct. there is no reason to ban incestuous marriage. in fact, in a quick google search i found a case of a brother and sister, separated at birth, who eventually met and married, and after having children finally found out their familiar nature (fortunately the children turned out alright). they chose to separate, but if they had remained in love i see no reason the government should force them to part.

            (i recently read a book called “How Pleasure Works” and in one chapter the author discusses that universally across cultures humans have an aversion to sexual relations with people with whom they grew up – this explains aversion to incest and also why many teenagers are not sexually attracted to very good looking members of the opposite sex if they have been friends from a very young age. it also explains why a brother and sister separated at birth would not feel similar aversions.)

            i would still say it should be against the law to intentionally have an incestuous child (as a mirror to this case, i also believe it should be against the law to drink to excess during the parts of pregnancy which can crucially damage a developing baby).

            as far as the Loving v. Virginia case, i am astonished to see anyone against gay marriage bring that up with a straight (no pun intended) face. when that case was decided, the country as a whole had much lower support for interracial marriage than there is for gay marriage today – gallup said only 20% approved of it! 43 years later and it takes a true racist to be ready to prohibit interracial marriage…43 years from now i fear opposition to gay marriage (which is already at about 50/50 support) will seem similarly parochial and misguided.

            http://www.gallup.com/poll/28417/most-americans-approve-interracial-marriages.aspx

          • leftylurker

            The 14th Amendment was clearly intended to prevent racial discrimination. It was also clearly not intended to prevent discrimination on the basis of sexual preference.

          • hellome

            which is indicative of someone who only supported tearing down an outrageous and racist law because aw shucks the constitution made us. human dignity and respect is one of the things that the founders took for granted among the people they considered “people.” (unfortunately they grew up in a world where white men were considered superior to blacks and women, and where homosexuals were virtually 100% out of public view or closeted, which is why blacks and women began the American era with inferior rights.)

            the founders would never have required a 14th amendment in order to be disgusted at a law prohibiting interracial marriage if they grew up in an era where these people were respected members of society, and the same is true for homosexual marriage.

          • leftylurker

            If I were a dictator, I could make the law any way I want it, but I’m not, and I’m glad I live in a Republic.

            You contradict yourself. You say that the founders would never have required the 14th to prohibit interracial marriage, yet you admit that they allowed slavery and the restrictions on rights inherent in the odious institution.

            Ummm…you can’t have both.

          • hellome

            when i said that what i was saying was only if they had grown up in a society respecting black people as equal human beings.

          • leftylurker

            And if they had grown up in a world of magic unicorns, those might have been covered too.

            But they didn’t, and we have to accept that as reality and deal with it accordingly.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • Martin Knight
    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
      • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

        I saw your call in Recent comments and popped over.

        • Martin Knight

          Can another proposition effort be mounted?

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            Could probably do one in the next year or two though.

            We get lots of ballot measures all the time.