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Yes, There Will Be Taxes

IF PAUL RYAN, RON REAGAN, OR MITCH McCONNELL HAS CONFUSED YOU, READ THESE SEVEN (LONG) SENTENCES

Normally, I think it’s a waste of my time to debate the merits of a bill the day after it’s passed; however, there is so much really confusing information being circulated on the super-committee, that I find it necessary to clear the air.

First of all, Paul Ryan thinks he is being sooo clever by arguing that the use of the current law baseline would require a tax increase to be huge in order to be large enough to trump the baseline assumptions and count toward the $1.5 trillion mandated savings.

Ryan’s argument has a lot of problems, but, since I have only seven sentences, let me point this out: There are NO limits to what the super-committee can do under section 401(b)(3)(A)(i), particularly since all points of order are statutorily waived, and the committee may, for instance, change all of its economic assumptions, thereby rendering Ryan’s argument moot.

Ron Reagan’s argument that a super-committee bill which raises revenues can be filibustered or amended is based on a misreading of section 402(e)(2), which allows the House to “blue-slip” (kill) a Senate-initiated revenue bill and section 404 (which is routine boilerplate). A giant tax increase cannot be filibustered or amended in the Senate, and the Speaker cannot keep it from coming up in the House.

Finally, Mitch McConnell argues that his stellar appointments will insure that the super-committee cannot vote out tax increases. But, given that Harry Reid and Barack Obama are equally adamant about including tax increases –- and given that the trigger ($800 billion in defense cuts) is much too big to pull -– and, finally, given that McConnell has lost his lunch money to Obama again and again and again -– who do you think is going to win that argument?

by Michael E. Hammond, former General Counsel Senate Steering Committee 1978-89.

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COMMENTS

  • streiff

    I have to point out that the House and Senate can do pretty much what they damned well please regardless of what the law they just passed says.

    1. The Budget Act, a law no less valid than the current deal, requires the Senate to produce a budget. It hasn’t for 820+ days and yet Kent Conrad does not have a SWAT team of US Marshals in pursuit and no disciplinary action against him for this misfeasance is contemplated by the Senate.

    2. If either Reid or Boehner decide to move the bill contrary to the letter of the law there is absolutely no enforcement mechanism that will prevent them from doing so as they control majorities in their respective chambers. In fact, the US Constitution gives the House and the Senate the right to determine their own rules and it is hard to see how this deal trumps the Constitution.

    3. A tie in the joint committee is, in my view, a win. It leads to immediate cuts.

    4. The law doesn’t require either the House or the Senate to vote affirmatively for whatever the joint committee comes up with and it doesn’t require the President to sign it. So while all the procedural stuff you point out may very well be true we all know from experience that an unenforceable law isn’t going to be enforced.

    This is not to say a lot of bad stuff may not come out of this. It may. If that does come to pass it will be because the House and Senate produced a majority vote in favor of the legislation and the President signed it, not because of arcane procedures.

    • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

      Fixes can be refixed. Any deal can be undealt. There is nothing in the ‘deal’ made that forces any particular outcome except the trigger.

      So here’s where I come down: PULL THE TRIGGER.

      We should have all along had a simple stance: You want a debt ceiling increase? Give us the House FY2012 budget numbers and you’ve got it. That would have been simple and defensible.

      Instead we had to go all Rube Goldberg-McConnell on this. We got much less in FY2012 than we should have, and got ‘more’ in terms of complicated long-range guesstimed ‘cuts’. And now the Democrats are insisting on tax increases. This cannot happen and must not happen.

      So here’s what need to happen. Let the Democrats put a crappy proposal out there. Then vote it down in the House, and PULL THE TRIGGER. LET THE DEFENSE AND MEDICARE CUTS HAPPEN.

      Wait, that’ll be a disaster, right? No, not really. Remember these are limp lame Biden-type pseudo-cuts. In FY2012 they are nothing burgers, and down the road we will need to save every penny. If there is anything priority to save … ALL THE HOUSE HAS TO DO IS FIND SOME SUBSITUTE CUTS TO REPLACE THEM!

      Yup. All we have to do is wheel out Ryan roadmap, Coburn’s $9 trillion in savings, heck maybe the joint committee has something … AND PROPOSE THAT INSTEAD.

      But wait, isnt it ‘committee or nothing’? Nope. That was just a mechanism … and this is the key … to ensure that the debt ceiling WOULD be raised. It doesnt lock Congress into a particular path on HOW it would be raised.

      The fly in the ointment is Congressional agreement, aka Harry Reid. It would take the GOP side having the guts to accept the trigger as a fall-back.

      By phrasing it and positioning it as “let’s make the trigger a bit more palatable” they probably can win on keeping taxes off the table and getting a pretty good set of cuts.

      Now this is what the Republican leadership COULD do. Would they do it? As long as they rely on the bizarre reasoning that “Bush tax cuts going away in baseline is an awesome thing” (actually it is a horrible thing that will make it very difficult to extend without a ‘give-back’). I am dubious.

      • snowshooze

        Well, Obama wants to shove everyone into Obamacare if he can, in order to defend it…Kill medicare and medicaid? Sure. Obamacare sealed, constitutional or not.
        And Military? Reely? With Obama out saving the world?
        I am certain any necessary military funding will come right through.
        He has Libya, right? Who is next? There are plenty of countries out there he feels are not liberal enough for him, and if they do not go under the table and contribute to his campaign… he might just bomb them.
        Don’t worry about the trigger. This is supposed to be a game of chicken, but I am in a Mack Truck, and they are on a little red wagon. Thump-thump…

        • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

          The Democrats tried that already. We need to stop it.
          Dont let the trigger be such a bugaboo.

          There are many reasons not to worry about if we take a bite out of the military:
          Havent you been paying attention to Reid’s trickery? These ‘cuts’ are non-cut spending increase projection reductions and were in the bag already as we drew down from Iraq and Afghanistan.

          Also, we spend more than 5X what any other nation pays on military, and the spending is almost 2X what it was about 10 years ago, with barely a larger force structure. Our tens of thousands of military folks in Germany, Okinawa and other non hot-spots could be cut back. Civilian Pentagon employment could be reduced. Tens of billions in waste in the budget in any govt agency as big as DoD.

          Bottom-line, the cuts are a bugaboo only to the spending addicts in Congress. It’s a mirage.

  • Tbone

    After all, they are the American Aristocracy with self assumed divine rights and wisdom.

  • jpat34721

    and agree to the following:
    1) Make the Bush tax cuts permanent
    2) Impose a surcharge on the top 2% of taxpayers the proceeds of which can only be used to pay down the existing debt.

    This strategy would remove the lefts most powerful argument in the next election- that we are only trying to protect the wealthy and don’t really care about the debt., without working counter to our central goal of reducing the size and scope of the federal government.

    • streiff

      getting the bottom 50+% of earners who pay zip in federal income tax onto the tax rolls.

      How about eliminating the EITC and imposing a minimum payment of $1 per wage earner?

      • jpat34721

        Ultimately we need to scrap the entire code to broaden the base and lower marginal rates. But first we need to get elected. Disarming your opponents furthers that goal.

        • jeffreywturner

          Every time we tweak the code it gets more complex and more loopholes are made.

          Those marginal rates aren’t really applicable to most high-income individuals. The only people who really pay them in the traditional sense are people like professional athletes whose income is mostly W-2 income, and who do not own businesses.

          Most high-income individuals either (a) make a large portion of their money in investment income that is not taxed at ordinary rates (ie: cap gains / dividends) and / or (b) own their own business and deduct every family vacation as a “business trip”, to name just one BS write-off.

          Also, at the bottom of the spectrum, it is just unfair to use the code as a means to create more dependency through credits, especially refundable ones.

  • jaykali

    It’s possible we could close loopholes in exchange for lower rates. This deal has been out there for months! I mean what’s more ‘split the baby’ than lower rates for loophole closing, everyone wins!

    The super-committee will be filled with ideologues from both side. If anything this ensures that no deal will be made and we will get the ‘automatic’ cuts that come if no deal is made.

    But look people, Republicans are not raising taxes (unless you count tax reform). No Republican on one of these committees is going to say, ya let’s just raise tax rates on everyone over $200k in exchange for some more ‘promised’ cuts 8 years from now. I know this is great blog fodder to get people enraged, but it’s not going to happen.

    And for the record, when Paul Ryan says something I usually believe him. I know he’s still a politician, but if we can’t believe Paul Ryan then we are all completely screwed bc he’s the best thing we have right now.

    • streiff

      special tax breaks making their way into the tax code. This is a golden opportunity to take a deep look at the tax code and see what we can do to make the system 1) encompass more people, 2) produce more revenue, 3) make the business climate more favorable, and 4) make the code simpler so companies won’t have to engage armies of CPAs and tax attorneys.

      • Death_of_the_Donkey

        though in order for it to stick. The problem back in 86 was that enough exemptions were left in that it became far to easy to slip a few more in here and there and we quickly got right back to where we started. Everyone at a given income level (I favor a flat tax, but that is unlikely) should pay the exact same in taxes (ie no cap gains/dividends/muni bond rates, no mortgage interest, no local tax deductions, no EITC, no anything). We could definitely get support for a plan like this, as it would reduce the tax forms to about 1/2 a page (or make them entirely online) and eliminate compliance costs for everyone. And while we are at it, we need to do the same to the corporate code as well.

        • juumanistra

          While I broadly concur with the sentiment, I think there’re two points that need to be made in response.

          The first is that I think we’re stuck with a business expenses deduction, at least so long as both individuals and corporations share the same tax code. And that’s not a bad thing, either, as income tax liability arising from every dollar earned for a new business with no way to off-set sunk capital costs and other start-up related losses would be such a massive disincentive to entrepreneurial enterprise a new word would probably need to be invented for it. The same probably also holds true for depreciation and carryover losses. Which, really, is a pretty good argument for formally bifurcating Title 28 of the United States Code and separating the personal and corporate income tax systems to a much greater degree than currently exists. Because there’re plenty of legitimate policy objectives that need addressing by the corporate side of the Internal Revenue Code and that, I think, necessitate a more complex business tax code.

          The other point is that we have to always remember that cap-gains are taxed at preferential rates for a reason. I concur that they really should be treated as ordinary income, but we have got to make sure that the marginal rates we end up with do not penalize cap-gains. That, at least from my mind, ought to lead to a compromise rate structure on the order of 12%/16%/20%, with the brackets being rather large. (E.g. <$100,000 = 12%; $100,000-$4,999,9999 = 16%; $5,000,000+ = 20%.) That nominally does what the Left wants — the truly rich pay far more, both in relative and absolute terms — while keeping folks generally within the same bracket, which provides most — if not all — of the benefits of a flat tax. Of course, as such doesn’t horribly punish high-earners, the Left will never cotton to it. But if you go much higher than that with the highest bracket, you start really penalizing cap-gains, which gets us back to the problem of why cap-gains needed special rates in the first place.

          • streiff

            the “flat tax” thing sounds good until you examine how it will play out in real life. The home mortgage deduction is another item. Any idea of what will happen to the real estate industry, the building trades, and stores like Home Depot and Lowe’s if most people are living in rental properties?

            Not to defend the status quo but tax reform requires more than slogans.

        • jpat34721

          Right now the closest thing we have to a cost of living adjustment is the mortgage interest deduction. To take that away pretends that $100k of income in California is equivalent to $100k in Iowa. Without some sort of indexing to account for the cost of living I could never support elimination of the mortgage interest rate deduction.

    • juumanistra

      Because, as someone who’s tried following this, I’m confused as to where Republicans stand on this: Are they opposed to all tax increases, including those that’re derived from base-broadening? Or is it merely assumed that listeners will be able parse out that tax increases derived from taking a meat-cleaver to tax expenditures don’t count aren’t what Republicans mean, and that they really are just opposed to marginal tax rate increases. I know the platform says we support tax reform, but that seems to get lost in the shuffle of most of the Capitol Hill’s politicos discussing the subject.

      As, really, the reason Democrats have been able to demagogue this point at all is because some days Republicans have been saying the former and others the latter. I’d very much like to see Paul Ryan and Dave Camp get in front of a camera, say something like: “The Republican Party is agnostic on revenue enhancement. (Or, at the very least, not actively opposed to it.) What we are opposed to is increasing marginal tax rates and new taxes aimed at the ‘rich’ for the ostensible purpose of deficit reduction. However, we are also amenable, and actively desire, to pursuit of reformation of the tax code along a base-broadening, rate-flattening model similar to that of the Tax Reform Act of 1986.” And then have a little message discipline in actually holding to that.

      • streiff

        and his fellow islamic radicals off the cliff because ATR has a pledge and scoring system is just stupid.

        Raising more money isn’t bad so long as it is done in a way that minimizes economic impact and encourages capital to invest in production.

        • juumanistra

          But it’s been depressing to listen to some of the freshmen House members talk about this subject, because I get that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that they’re genuinely serious and “no tax increases!” is meant in an absolute and maximalist manner. Revenue must be brought back up to its historic average, at the very least, and we’re still a fair ways from that: If we’re going to do major monkeying with the tax code, now’s the best time, for the simple fact that if we screw up, revenues can’t go much lower than currently are.

        • Repair_Man_Jack

          I remember when the bad muppet was calling Tom Coburn a traitor for wanting a simpler tax code. I think Grover is well aware that actually fixing America’s tax code would terminate the necessity of his existence. He is typical K-Street slime. The GOP would do well to eventually repudiate Grover Norquist.

          • streiff

            if we reform the tax code we don’t need Americans for Tax Reform

          • jaykali

            Since everything is a tax increase to Grover I think it can make conservatives look bad. Legit tax reform should be on the table eventually, even if we get the presidency & the senate I think Grover would still oppose tax reform that closed loopholes but I think that’s a legit conservative way to handle the tax code.

          • Repair_Man_Jack

            He might even be like a few Republicans as well….

          • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

            has done very good work in the past, but he reminds me of the old civil rights coalition guys like Jesse Jackson. He just cannot ever let well enough alone.

            Nothing is ever good enough, and everything is seen through one lens.

            While I do not agree with increasing taxes during a recession, and I am generally for lower taxes, I can tell you right now that our problems are not with taxes. Taxes are pretty low right now, what we have is a 100% spending problem, and if we had to gain a few tax hikes in order to get some real, substantive spending cuts, then I would not object.

      • jpat34721

        ..agnostic to revenue increases. We want to shrink government, not give it more money to spend. Any revenue raised via tax reform should go to paying down the national debt, not to feeding the beast.

        • streiff

          but that certainly doesn’t speak for a lot of us in the conservative movement.

          How do you go about “paying down the national debt”? Money received from SS payments, for instance, by law must be used to by government debt. So the more money you bring in from SS the higher your debt is going to be.

          The issue is debt-to-GDP. Just like it doesn’t matter how much your mortgage and credit card bills are IF you can afford debt service and have money left over the aggregate size of the national debt is irrelevant so long as you can service the debt and continue operations.

        • juumanistra

          Much of the current hazard in the medium-term of America’s fiscal outlook stems from the fact that the government wants to fund roughly half of its operations with debt. Now then, major structural changes the Big Three of entitlement programs will ablate the debt explosion, but such will require sizable transition costs and, barring something that radically changes what is politically possible, will take at least a decade to implement and start generating savings anyway. The simple fact of the matter is that, if deficits running at 10% of GDP are not your cup of tea, you have to reconcile yourself with the necessity of “squeezing more blood from the turnips”, as it was aptly put on the front page yesterday.

          And then there’s the entirely separate question about what the size of government actually is, whether one cares about the size of government versus its scope, and all of the policy considerations attendant thereto. But that’s a romp for another thread, as I suspect whatever disagreements we may have about them are mooted by our concurrence that as it stands the federal government is both too large in terms of its aggregate size and too broad in its scope.

      • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

        Have you noticed that the Democrats are ONLY talking about TAXES now for 2 reasons:
        1) They need to get someone to PAY for their Big Government
        2) They have a class warfare tax-the-rich 2012 playbook to run

        the Dem “tax reform” trap is to call TAX HIKES ‘tax reform’ and muddy the waters. That is why Obama talked ‘entitlement reform’ but really wanted TAX HIKES to pay for Obamacare etc. have you not noticed Pelosi argue that they could ‘fix’ entitlements by raising the payroll taxes.

        Now WHY would the GOP give away the farm by saing … “The Republican Party is agnostic on revenue enhancement. ”

        To which the Democrats would answer: “See, the raise taxes but not the rich. They are the party of the rich.”

        Here is what we NEED to say:
        “Our problem is not too little in tax rates, its too high spending.
        Our problem is not enough taxes, its not enough taxpayers.
        Our solution to our debt and economic malaise is 2-fold: Cut the spending and grow the economy. We will grow the economy with a REVENUE-NEUTRAL tax reform that makes the tax code flatter, fairer and more incentivized for growth and job creation.”

        • juumanistra

          Because the GOP does look like it’s made up of a bunch of poo-flinging simians when it sits on its hands, screaming that taxes cannot go up, on anyone, under any circumstances. It also makes them look like flaming hypocrites, as they dig in to defend the current status quo of the tax code, when the GOP’s own platform calls for massively revising it. (To say nothing of the rather yawning chasm between the stated purpose of the GOP to impose fiscal discipline contrasted with its removing a legitimate method of alleviating the debt problem. And as cute as saying “we don’t have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem!” is — and as much as I sympathize with it — such conveniently averts its eyes to the fact that we’re still well off historical norms in terms of revenue.)

          And, on the wider point, the GOP as a matter of principle shouldn’t be opposed to revenue enhancement. It wants to be the party of fiscal sanity? Fine and dandy: Raising more revenue is a valid public policy tool for dealing with chronic deficits, and shouldn’t be shied away from. That said, there are good and bad ways to raise revenue: The party ought to, in principle, support doing it in the right way — as we’ve discussed herein, base-broadening and rate-flattening — while opposing ways that are rather more destructive. The point is to articulate a coherent GOP position on revenue enhancement, as that’s the only way to inoculate it against the Democrats’ inevitable broadsides that they’re uncompromising zealots who refuse to continence even the most modest increase in revenue. And that they’re tools of the rich, intent on obstructing the will of the people for their private jet-owning corporate masters, or whatever the Obama administration’s bugaboo is of the week.

          • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

            You either are watching too much MSNBC or have Stockholm syndrome. How dare you call the principled position that we do not need tax increases with “poo-flinging simians”! If you call liberals that, it’s an unnecessary insult, but saying principled conservatives will look that is worse. That’s rhetorical garbage, and if we ‘look like that’ to anyone, they are leftwing agit-prop team members who deserve no respect or attention for making such a smear.

            I did not says taxes cannot ‘go up’. I DID say that if we want higher revenues, there is one real way to do it – GROW THE ECONOMY. Phony talking points like jets or oil companies is just utter garbage that does nothing to solve anything.

            It’s the DEMOCRATS who increased spending $1,000 billion dollars on a per year basis. And it is the DEMOCRATS who are so thankful to have your ‘reasonableness’ to take advantage of, so they can avoid the real question of how to rollback their overspending, and can instead engage in the pretense that the massive $1.5 trillion a year gap, created by overspending, can be ‘fixed’ by squeezing taxpayers more, killing jobs through more taxes, and somehow we will end up ahead.

            “conveniently averts its eyes to the fact that we

          • streiff

            this kind of disjointed rant only damages your credibility and does nothing to further the discussion.

          • juumanistra

            There’s a lot of ranting above, most of which can’t be rebutted without counter-ranting, so allow me to just respond to a couple of the more salient points.

            Avert your eyes from the fact that revenue in 2007 was at an ALL-TIME HIGH, and that spending since 2007 to 2011 went up by one trillion, that if all we did was re-track spending to 2007 levels, more than half the deficit would go away instantly. That

          • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

            “Raising taxes demonstrates fiscal discipline if a polity has reduced all other expenditures to their lowest possible degree”

            Well, get back to me in another era when that is actually the case. Right now, we are $1 trillion and over 7% of GDP above where the spending should be.

            So get back to me when we have spending down to 18% of GDP or less, and we can talk about the other part of the deficit. Until then, you are just feeding Leviathan.

            “You also cannot claim to oppose tax hikes while simultaneously championing this kind of tax reform. ”
            Clearly, you cannot read. I said I support:
            “reform taxes through a flatter, fairer tax system that does NOT increase the government

        • jaykali

          When liberals talk about reform, they mean overhaul that will reinforce their end goals:

          1. Tax reform = high taxes
          2. Immigration reform = amnesty & new democratic votes
          3. Health care reform = govt controlled health care
          4. Wall street reform = more suffocating regulation
          5. Student loan reform = govt controlled student loans

          • streiff

            we shouldn’t support “reform” for its own sake. But we should support conservative reforms.

      • jaykali

        Many politicians including Ryan are on the record that they are for tax reform if it means eliminating loopholes and lowering the rates to broaden the base. You can find those sound bites all over the place.

        Yet this is not mentioned when Boehner’s $800 billion dollar walk-away deal is discussed. It is INFERRED that Boehner would have taken $800 billion dollars in tax increases (loophole or otherwise) as part of a deal that would ALSO include spending cuts. This was NEVER going to happen. I can promise that Boehner was not going to agree to any deal that was CUTs for TAXES. The Democrats tried and tried and tried to make that the deal but it was never going to happen. And I don’t even think the Democrats BELIEVED it could happen, but it is political posturing to say that the Republicans are unreasonable bc they won’t include tax increases as part of a balanced approach.

        I am pretty sure that the super-secret Boehner deal that is so great it could never be shared in detail with the public would have included the lowering of tax rates. As many have said you can INCREASE revenues via tax reform without having net tax increases for everybody.

        But like I said this distinction isn’t always made and the media is an arm of the Democratic spin machine so when they were reporting on the deal they wanted to carry the narrative that Republicans almost agreed to a CUTS for TAXES deal until those unreasonable Republicans messed everything up. That was never going to FREAKING HAPPEN. If a lame duck Democratic congress wasn’t going to increase taxes, we sure as crap aren’t going to now.

        And so that’s why I keep making the point that these blogs that keep inferring that TAXES ARE GOING UP – just aren’t being either a) honest or b) making the loophole distinction. Republicans will absolutely not agree to ANYTHING that looks like a tax increase. So in all of these committees if somehow tax reform is agreed to Republicans will make triple sure that people understand overall rates will go down in exchange for loophole ending.

    • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

      If you close loopholes for purposes of getting more money into the Government … that’s a tax hike.

      Letting Bush tax cuts expire is a tax hike.

      Using the revenue ‘gains’ from expiring Bush tax cuts to then ‘pay’ down a ‘tax reform’ that closes loopholes … that’s a tax hike.

      We need to (1) make the Bush tax cuts permanent and (2) make any ‘tax reform’ following that revenue neutral … only THEN can we say the ‘tax reform’ is not a tax hike.

      “And for the record, when Paul Ryan says something I usually believe him.”
      Me too, but he is fairly centrist and thought this bill, which did hardly enough, was a great bill. They are playing budget number shell games based on a CBO baseline that shows taxes exploding. Do you REALLY think that this economy will pay $36 trillion in taxes in the next 10 years, when THIS YEAR it barely cracked $2.1 trillion. Do the math. IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE, even with massive tax hikes across the board? Not to me. Trust but verify.

      • streiff

        if reducing tax rates and eliminating deductions increases revenues that is a feature not a bug. It is rather the premise of the Laffer Curve.

        If you ever want to pull out of the death spiral we’re in you have to increase revenues. Increasing the number of tax payers is preferable to raising the rates on those who happen to pay taxes.

        This argument is no more palatable when you serve it up than with Norquist presents it with sheep’s butt and fallafal.

        • jaykali

          And so do most people if you make the distinction. Lower rates for everybody in exchange for loopholes like Ethanol subsidies should be a net positive if you do it right.

          Now of course there is RISK involved here. Some of these subsidies that are called loopholes lower the cost of the item. So if you subsidize like some agricultural product to keep costs lower and then remove that subsidy, that commodity will go up.

          But I do think it is a conservative principle to say that we want low across the board rates that are fair for everybody instead of a million carve-outs in the tax code which are most often the result of lobbying.

          • streiff

            had a certain validity during the Depression Era. Agribusiness can make due without the subsidies and still produce lots of cheap food.

          • jaykali

            subsidies are great for buying politicians, and that is not exclusive to democrats by any stretch. and even if we concede that oh well this is the system we live in where big donors can buy politicians -okay fine but why the CRAP are we have to still subsidize things that some politician got 50 years ago?! I bet there’s all kinds of stuff in the tax code that was some sweet heart deal from a long time ago.

          • mikeymike143

            quoting him or his ideas on a tea party site would be like quoting huff po as a reputable source on this site.

            he is NOT a conservative.

          • jaykali

            i think politicians listen to him

  • oldbird77

    I would be willing to pay higher taxes if I thought the government was going to actually be responsible with it. If real entitlement reform, actual spending cuts (not reduced increases), the elimination of bad and redundant programs and regulations, and a real reduction in the debt (not just deficit) was a real possibility; I’d pay higher taxes in exchange. But, none of those things is actually going to happen and we wouldn’t need higher “revenue” if they did. I’m not willing to pay higher taxes if all they are going to do is feed the ever growing (at an ever so slightly slower pace) leviathan

  • jpalm

    What do I do when the educated & experienced politions are stupider then me???

  • gawken

    I would have stopped reading immedaitely afterr seeing that you cite Ron Reagan..

    I mean, dude, that’s just not gonna cut it…

  • Marcus_Traianus

    This committee is not extra-constitutional and is therefore ultimately bound by that document. So I profoundly doubt that any established legislative maneuver (e.g. filibuster) will be taken off the table. Certainly, they can argue against its use in this particular case, but given the stakes, I suspect nobody is about to fold up their tents- do you?

    You also assume the Democrats have a valid issue pushing tax increases in this economic climate and an election cycle. What will it be; more “us vs them” corporate jets against the “little guy” argumentation. Oh no wait, its going to be arguments about getting big corporations to pay their “fair-share”, those same corporations that can’t afford to hire anyone and already pay one of the highest corporate tax rates in the developed world. Really? When have the Democrats looked out for the “little guy” in the past 2+ years they have been in office? How will corporations (and ultimately the people) benefit by paying higher tax rates?Let them make their case for that right up until the election and we will make ours- or are we afraid of that? Conversely, Boehner and McConnell will be more done than they are now if the tax increases go through. I could be wrong but doubt the leadership is willing to commit political suicide just before the election.

    Finally, if this committee can’t agree the designated cuts kick in. The country wins by getting a cut in expenditures we can’t afford.

    I am getting a little tired of people who have no faith in the righteousness and strength of our arguments using fear-mongering as some type of substitute for that confrontation. Grow some stones.

  • alaskaescapeartist

    How are the mandatory cuts determined? The 800 Billion from Defense for example. Is that going to require another committee of superbrains to pick and choose where those cuts are made within the department?

    Is that a card we need to be prepared to show a willingness to play?

    Where did the 800 Billion figure come from?

    My biggest client is a defense contractor, so I don’t take this lightly…. but when I start looking at a major Defense cut as opposed to not having a country left to defend, it doesn’t present a good choice.

    • streiff

      that those cuts would be apportioned by DoD with the usual interference by members of Congress trying to protect jobs back home.

      • alaskaescapeartist

        From a strategic point of view, it seems to me that our side must be fully prepared to withstand that trigger.

        What other cards do we have left to play?

        • juumanistra

          “I’ve never found a battle plan very useful in the face of the enemy, but the process of planning itself immensely useful,” or something to that extent.

          As much as I hate to say it, but in the event of the trigger being pulled, the Army will in all likelihood need to be thrown under the bus. If we are going to return to more modest defense spending in an era of a more modest foreign policy, than we need to once more evaluate our force structure through the lens of when we were last there, which was for the first three-and-a-half decades of the Twentieth Century, which was a time of an ascendant Navy and a standing Army that was constabulatory at best.

          So, in budgetary terms, we’d be looking at prioritizing the power projection elements of the existing force structure, which is the entirety of the Navy and the Marine Corps, as well as the USAF’s airborne infrastructure, airlifting, and strategic forces, with the costs being borne predominantly by the Army and the USAF’s tac-air forces. (Really, in such a scenario, there’s a good case to be made for abolishing the USAF entirely and assigning its assets to the Army and Navy as is appropriate for their newly envisioned roles.) Of course, this would likely destroy the JSF, as the only form of cost-containment left in it is praying repeatedly that the massive buys that the USAF is obligated to make somehow allow costs to be somewhat restrained by serial production. It’d also require the funding of the EFV, which Gates and his successor have been adamant in killing.

      • Marcus_Traianus

        I mean- have you seen what those guys make? And the bonuses for reenlistment? Geez, do those people know we are in a recession? It’s almost worse than Wall Street.

        Seriously, let’s hope we don’t have to go their. Even Obama’s new JCS Chairman said the cuts would be

        • alaskaescapeartist

          The parade of continuing resolutions with no budgets have made a nightmare out of ongoing procurement contracts. Small contractors are left hanging, and more often than not, don’t have the resources to hang in awaiting the funding of their contracts.

          And these aren’t the contractors that are coming up with zillion dollar bombers…. it’s small, innovative companies that are devising methods of better logistics, safer equipment, etc….. stuff that the boots on the ground would greatly benefit from.

          The irresponsibility of the Left in their abandonment of budgeting obligations is nowhere felt more seriously than in the Defense Dept.

          Since our military is already bearing the brunt of the financial zoo known as our Government, I’m hardly arguing the merits of allowing the trigger to further devastate our defenses…. but if we aren’t prepared to withstand it, then we have no business negotiating anything.

          It would send a powerful message to the Left to see concrete plans being made to absorb those military cuts. Perhaps squeezing military expenditures from some Blue districts would be a good place to start.

          • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

            ” if we aren

  • http://aposematic.wordpress.com aposematic

    McConnell is doing what he always does after completely kissing every D’s backside within range–spreading the BS nice and thick on whole wheat hoping the Cons will partake. There will be taxes is exactly right and McConnell not only knows there will be huge new taxes but will vote for them and then spread more of his seemingly endless jar of BS for the Cons to eat.

    • streiff

      was The Deity.

  • caboose

    in defense will finish it off. Its already been weakened by previous cuts and by allowing Homosexal to clutter its fighting ability. The notion that the United States Air Force should be broken up and put into the army, and navy is not only ludicrous, but is totally stupid. Anyone who would remotely suggest that, is inflicted with a terminal self inflicted ignorance, that could only be attributed to lunancy. The Air Force won WWll. It is the only Military Service Capable of destroying an enemy and preventing total destruction to America. No other Service, Army, Marines and Navy can make such a swift crucial strike, in time to save this country from an attack from Russia and China. The proposed defense cuts by the Simpson, Boles commmission, would destroy the retirement system in the military, It would stop pay raises to those who are leaving their blood and bodyparts on the battle field, while leaving Widows and other dependent survivors destitute. In Addition, no pomotions; and the return of the draft, which might be ok, especially if they drafted those ingrates, who have never served in the military and therefore payed no dues to the freedom they receive from those who sacrifice the most. Those who would gut the defense of this country, had better weight their uniformed opinion with the dire consequences. By the way A Policman, Fireman, maked four times in retirement than a Master Sergeant in the Air Force Makes. An assembly line worker in the auto industry also makes mucfh more in retirement than an NCO in the military makes who is put His/Her life on the line while defending this country. Shameful America! Wake Up America!!!!!

    • streiff

      in WWII, it winning that war was one helluva an accomplishment.

  • runner12

    will push for tax increases. From Obama on down they have explicitly stated that is their goal. This will be a big fight in the committee and I hope that we have the right Conservatives in there to hold fast. The Left’s base will be screaming for redistribution of wealth and the Dems will fight hard to give it to them.

    Republicans can and should look at things like ethanol subsidies, but we must examine carefully each and every suggestion that comes out of the commitee. Remember that reform to the Progressives and reform to us are two very different things.

    • streiff

      if there is a real fight over taxes the committee deadlock. I see the Dems as more willing to endorse cuts than the Republicans are to endorse taxes but even if I’m wrong on this, both houses of Congress still have to approve whatever the committee comes up with otherwise we’re in across the board cuts.

      • runner12

        They would just claim that the Republicans are holding granny hostage because they refuse to accept tax hikes on those big, evil rich people.

        • runner12

          I just do not see this committee working out well for us in the end. Maybe I am wrong, maybe this time history will not repeat itself. It will vastly depend on who is appointed to the committee.

  • izoneguy

    The Washington Post babbled again today about Obama inheriting a huge deficit from Bush. Amazingly enough, a lot of people swallow this BULL.

    So once more, a short civics lesson.

    Budgets do not come from the White House. They come from Congress and the party that controlled Congress since January 2007 is the Democratic Party.

    Furthermore, the Democrats controlled the budget process for FY 2008 & FY 2009 as well as FY 2010 & FY 2011.

    In that first year, they had to contend with George Bush, which caused them to compromise on spending, when Bush somewhat belatedly got tough on spending increases.

    For FY 2009 though, Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid bypassed George Bush entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government running until Barack Obama could take office. At that time, they passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the FY 2009 budgets.

    And where was Barack Obama during this time? He was a member of that very Congress that passed all of these massive spending bills, and he signed the omnibus bill as President to complete FY 2009.

    If the Democrats inherited any deficit, it was the FY 2007 deficit, the last of the Republican budgets. That deficit was the lowest in five years, and the fourth straight decline in deficit spending. After that, Democrats in Congress took control of spending, and that includes Barack Obama, who voted for the budgets.

    If Obama inherited anything, he inherited it from himself.

    In a nutshell, what Obama is saying is I inherited a deficit that I voted for
    and then I voted to expand that deficit four-fold since January 20th.