I got tipped on this by RedState diarist BigGator5, who is as gobsmacked as I am that this happened to a (presumed) Chris Dudley (R CAND, OR-GOV) supporter. Short version for those who can’t see/haven’t seen the video: a guy was filming Democratic candidate John Kitzhaber at a political event held in a church. He was asked to turn off the camera: he refused, on First Amendment grounds. Now, let me establish, for the record: this is a shaky argument, at best, when it comes to private property – even when the site is hosting a public event. So, I can easily enough concede that a duly-authorized representative of the church, Kitzhaber campaign, and/or group hosting the event may have indeed had the right to demand that the man turn off his camera.
I do not concede that said representative had the right to smash the guy’s camera in his face.
Note the use of a second camera, which is useful for establishing that no violent activity on the cameraman’s sparked the assault and battery. That was pretty much an unprovoked attack, there: and I’d like to know whether or not the assailant was involved with the Kitzhaber campaign or not. I’d also like to know whether the Democrats quite understand that if you want to punch back twice as hard, you have to wait for your opponents to actually punch you in the first place…
Moe Lane (Crossposted)
Jeff Emanuel
All they can do is ask you to leave
JoeG Friday, September 24th at 4:44PM EDT (link)Being private property they can ask you to leave. Dragging you out is iffy. Punching them is definitely out. The best route would be to call the police and ask to have them remove someone.
Are we expecting assault charges?
Does he pray in that church with hand
tngal (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 4:53PM EDT (link)he punched the cameraman with? That’s sad. I haven’t been in a while, but I don’t remember this as being a good missionary for God. This will blow up nicely around the blogosphere.
sorry ... Church is private property
spim Friday, September 24th at 4:57PM EDT (link)even if “open to the public”
think if this had been someone’s home
First Amendment is in public and publishing … you can’t come in to my home (or Church) and just say or do anything you like
I’m no lawyer … but that is what is proper and right (and just polite darn it!)
. . . now . . . the ridiculous punching/assault thing … really dumb
just my 2¢ (rounding up)
Not so fast there.
acat (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 5:25PM EDT (link)If the organizers did not send invitations or require registration but instead put up fliers or put an ad in the paper, then they did lose some control.
Specifically, again, they can ask a person to stop doing something, as they did, and they can ask a person who isn’t willing to comply to leave. I don’t see where they did this.
They can’t physically remove the protester unless they’ve already asked him or her to leave, and the best thing for a private org to do is to either have some off-duty cops on hand to remove such protestors, or to just call the cops and ask them to remove the protestor.
We agree, though, that the physical assault just opened up a whole can of worms. First, the guy who threw the punch needs to go to jail. After that, depends on who these two thugs were, and who they work for.
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
More Obama violence
wolfster38 (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 5:05PM EDT (link)More Obama violence, remember Obama said: “Get in their face.” “Bring a gun.” The President advocates violence.
“A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.”
The Declaration of Independence
Separation of Church & State
erp617 Friday, September 24th at 5:30PM EDT (link)Why were they campaigning in a church?
Because there is no "separation of church and state"
Neil Stevens (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 5:32PM EDT (link)That’s a lie told by the left.
RS contributing editor and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
There is a separation of chuch and state
wolfster38 (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 5:51PM EDT (link)but no separation of state in church. They want to control the church, well the Christian church and the Jewish temples.
And it was never about keeping the church out of government, it was about keeping the government out of the church.
“A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.”
The Declaration of Independence
Could you please point to the Article and Section
WY_Cowboy (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 6:01PM EDT (link)in the Constitution that delineates a separation of church and state? I must have missed that. I know where it says that the government “shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” However, I just can’t seem to find where it says that there shall be a separation between church and state. Hmmm . . .
I could be wrong, but
wolfster38 (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 6:14PM EDT (link)If the founders and framers wanted the church out of our government I believe they would have made no reference to a Higher Being in our founding documents. And we all know they did many time along with all the praying they did together. They , the founders of this republic brought God to the forefront of our nation.
“A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.”
The Declaration of Independence
That's just it
Neil Stevens (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 6:16PM EDT (link)They wanted government out of church, not religious beliefs out of government.
RS contributing editor and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
And...
Kudzu (Diary) Saturday, September 25th at 12:12AM EDT (link)My polling place is in a church. I’m sure the early Americans met in church and discussed politics… fact I’m certain of it.
It always did take two of you to take down one of me. – Jo Bob Priddy, North Dallas Forty.
Now on at http://kudzu630.wordpress.com/
My polling place...
stephaniet Saturday, September 25th at 12:16AM EDT (link)…is in a church, too. That must drive the libs insane–well, more insane than they already are…
“*They* say the best weapon is one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I *prefer* the weapon you only have to fire *once*. That’s how Dad did it; that’s how America does it… and it’s worked out pretty well so far.”
campaign finance
doncorleone Saturday, September 25th at 10:22AM EDT (link)It drives the progressives crazy, until they get the hats full of tax free campaign contributions. The black churches have engaged in this for generations.
The phrase isn't in the Constitution, Declaration, et al.
acat (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 6:26PM EDT (link)It’s only in, iirc, Jefferson’s letters. Something like “There shall be a wall of separation between church and state” is the part usually quoted, but the second part is left off… where the author goes on to say something like “but it shall be a one-way wall”, meaning that the government would be prevented from messing with churches, but churches could take an active role in government.
That’s why, even while the Libs may scream “separation of church and state”, the punishment is not via the justice department, it’s via the IRS.
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
There shall be no official religion.
acat (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 6:00PM EDT (link)It’s the tax-exempt status that’s the real sticking point, and the IRS who are the selectively blind and deaf watchdogs.
Chicago’s black churches open their pulpits to “sermons” from candidates (always Dem .. it is Chicago) and nobody says anything about “separation”.
Let a conservative church leader (there’s case law…) say anything more than “I’m going to vote for {candidate}” and the IRS is all over ‘em.
We’re not punching back twice as hard as long as the first example remains true.
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
I favor free speech and tax exempt status but recognize the problems with either and/or both - more later - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 6:08PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Excellent point -
america1st (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 5:35PM EDT (link)Using a church for partisan campaign purposes might affect it’s non-profit tax status. That might be a productive route to pursue with this group. And now the statute of limitations will run past January, 2013, so holder won’t be available to protect ‘em.
Logic in the mind of a liberal is like a snowflake in the desert: lost, alone and soon destroyed by a hostile environment.
Now you see, this is what I am really upset about
Bill Friday, September 24th at 6:35PM EDT (link)Does this “church” enjoy tax exempt status from the IRS? Probably, right. By the name of the church and the members holding the podium, moderator, etc., it is probablly a predominantly black church? Maybe or maybe not, but probably. Well I attend a predominantly white southern baptist church and our pastor is scared out of his mind to invite a politician to come and talk to our congregation because he is afraid he’ll loose the church “Tax Emempt Status” from the IRS if he allows “political activity” in the church. Can I say this is just a DOUBLE STANDARD that Democrats are always allowed to do and it seems certain churches are never afraid of losing the IRS “Tax Exempt Status”. Stupid, isn’t it!
Thank God! November 3, 2010. U.S. House, GOP 290, DEM 145; U.S. Senate, GOP 70, DEM 28, IND 2. Keep on praying!
Been that Way All My Life
edintexas Friday, September 24th at 8:21PM EDT (link)As long as it was a Democrat being supported, nothing has ever been done about church involvement, at least in the South (and obviously Chicago). And Republican Administrations have mostly left the status quo alone.
IRS Tax Guide for Churches & Religious Organizations
patrickdalroy Saturday, September 25th at 10:05PM EDT (link)Bill,
Your pastor need not be afraid – he just needs to arm himself with the facts in this document:
http://www.priestsforlife.org/elections/p1828.pdf
There’s a whole section in there that describes inviting candidates to appear at churches and church functions.
Assault & Battery is regular leftist activity.
america1st (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 5:31PM EDT (link)Remember the two campaign staffers mauled in Louisiana for having the audacity to work for a Republican candidate, one of whom had a leg broken? Or the fellow beaten by SEIU thugs outside of the St. Louis event in 2009? The tool who bit off a man’s finger?
Now, put 2-3 million _patriotic_ (i.e., not “liberal”) Americans on the National Mall and there are how many violent incidents? To say nothing of all the trash, right? One of these days, some goon is going to attack the wrong person and have a short time to reflect on how the 1st Amendment is backed by the 2nd.
Logic in the mind of a liberal is like a snowflake in the desert: lost, alone and soon destroyed by a hostile environment.
My take on this . . . you will not like it.
WY_Cowboy (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 5:33PM EDT (link)Okay, the guy who punched the guy with the camera was out of line.
However, the guy shooting the video is kind of a tool. I was with him right up until the end when he was showing his owie on his nose. For crying out loud! Learn to take a punch. It is a prerequisite for growing up in Wyoming.
I guess that’s the big difference between conservatives in the mountain west and on the coasts. On the coasts the reaction is to call the cops and try to get the two guys in the video arrested and make the claim that Kitzhaber is obviously a bad man because he didn’t do anything about it. He must have seen it, right?
In Wyoming we would just advise the guy with the camera to stop whining. He might consider turning off the camera next time as well.
Stop apologizing for Democrats, WY_Cowboy.
Moe Lane (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 7:01PM EDT (link):holding up hand: That was not an invitation to discuss this further, nor is it a request that you clarify your meaning. It is an instruction from a site moderator to refrain from minimizing assault and battery.
Thank you in advance.
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
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Here here
Kudzu (Diary) Saturday, September 25th at 12:15AM EDT (link)And why wasn’t the second camera man… ala Grassy Knoll… confronted and attacked in such a manner?
It always did take two of you to take down one of me. – Jo Bob Priddy, North Dallas Forty.
Now on at http://kudzu630.wordpress.com/
Been in Wyoming
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 8:05PM EDT (link)my sister live in Wyoming, and just as many pansies in that state as any other. The camera guys could have just as well been from your state as it is no tougher than any other of the great states in this country.
Out of Line
edintexas Friday, September 24th at 8:24PM EDT (link)I know Wyoming has some different ideas than Texas, but I didn’t know that Assault is not a criminal violation in Wyoming, just considered being “out of line”.
I guess this is how Geroge Allen should have handled the guy stalking him with a camera. -nt
bk (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 6:39PM EDT (link)Welcome to my life!
lbjgal (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 6:48PM EDT (link)Church is where my community gathers. As a child I smacked around without a camera when I disagreed. So if I am a member of the very community that smacked you well you can put two and two together.
lbjgal
Dr. Kitzhaber seems to be perfectly OK with assault and battery
WarEagle01 (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 8:02PM EDT (link)since he didn’t stop his speech or do anything after the assault occurred. In a church. Odd behavior for an emergency room physician and (I assume) Christian.
“A wise, doughy leg with rich tingly experiences will always reach better conclusions than will a more tanned, muscular leg that hasn’t felt those thrills.” –Chris Matthews’ Leg
“The alternative to the awful extremity of abortion is the indispensable joy of introducing this flawed world to someone who might make it better.”–John Hayward (AKA Dr. Zero)
Not a Constitutional right, but
Kyle-MI (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 8:31PM EDT (link)IMHO, videotaping politicians is very close to the spirit of the First Amendment freedom of speech. Specifically, the founding fathers protected freedom of speech especially for political speech as a check and balance on government power. Videotaping politicians making political speeches in order to let others know their views is very much in the same spirit as talking or writing about a politician’s views. It does not matter where the politician is and I do not think they should have any right to stop someone from videotaping them if they are talking about political issues. I would not go as far as any liberal or activist judge and create a right to videotape in the Constitution as it is clearly not there. On the other hand, there is more support in the Constitution for this then there is for abortion or gay marriage.
What was Kitzhaber saying
Duke Friday, September 24th at 9:21PM EDT (link)that was so secret he didn’t want anyone recording his words?
I’ve been involved in politics for a long time and I can’t remember any rally, forum, or debate that the candidates didn’t welcome any and all publicity available to them from just about any source whatsoever.
Putting thugs in the audience to beat up people he couldn’t control might be a reason to shun the publicity.
It’s not about a purge. It’s about an insurrection.
Can I reply to myself?
Duke Friday, September 24th at 9:24PM EDT (link)Ron Johnson (R-Cand-WI) has a sleazy little Feingold dwarf that follows him everywhere like a little puppydog, digital video rolling at all times. Can I, as a Johnson supporter, smash his camera into his face – or do I have to behave like a human?
It’s not about a purge. It’s about an insurrection.
OT: We call it a 'kowalski.'
Moe Lane (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 9:47PM EDT (link)After one of our regulars, who replies to himself on a regular basis.
It’s generally all right; we know that sometimes people think of something else cool to write just after they hit the post button.
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
surprise surprise
proudgop (Diary) Friday, September 24th at 11:37PM EDT (link)Its not shocking the only time Dems don’t want sep of church in state is when they galavant into african american churches to get their vote.
nothing shocks me people just be strong on battle field because the more they are down and realize their clinch of power is coming to end the more mean they become
stay strong
African American Alliance
Kudzu (Diary) Saturday, September 25th at 12:24AM EDT (link)All I can find is that they are another ACORN type housing organization. I they are the same, no wonder they are this violent.
Website: http://www.aaah.org/
It always did take two of you to take down one of me. – Jo Bob Priddy, North Dallas Forty.
Now on at http://kudzu630.wordpress.com/
From Kitzhaber's Facebook
natlanthem (Diary) Saturday, September 25th at 9:47AM EDT (link)John Kitzhaber Tomorrow, I will be participating in the Urban League of Portland and African American Alliance for Homeownership forum. We will be discussing the importance of early childhood education, solutions to confront the achievement gap, and career pathways. I’m looking forward to working with these groups as Oregon’s next go…
Clearly Kitzhaber endorses this behavior.
Want to write the organization responsible for beating this man? aaahownership@yahoo.com
Speaking of Kitzhaber and home loans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZWpnf4EB1k
And, the “punchers” may have also had union connections… yeah, I know, big surprise.
The American Federation of State County and Municipal Employees gave $100,000 to Kitzhaber on Aug. 2, according to a report filed late Wednesday with the Oregon secretary of state. (The Kitzhaber campaign, it should be noted, is taking the full 30 days allowed by law to report contributions).
Just an observation...
Patricia_C (Diary) Saturday, September 25th at 12:06PM EDT (link)After watching that video, and thinking back over recent events (Colbert’s mockery appearance before congress… the comfortable biggotry of Loretta Sanchez and the embarrassing hubris of Russ Carnahan) I have come to an interesting conclusion regarding “First Amendment” rights….
Where some consider these freedoms a collection of American Life-Lines worth holding on to… others simply see them as a variety of ropes with which to hang themselves.
“Even when you fall on your face, you’re still moving forward.”
More information
natlanthem (Diary) Saturday, September 25th at 12:23PM EDT (link)http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownPDX/archives/2010/09/24/video-man-ousted-from-candidates-debate
Looks like the first assaulter is Charles McGee III. No positive ID yet on the one who hit the guy, but how many would take bets that it is related to the AFSCME endorsement of Kitzhaber. Union.
Police are investigating, but it looks like the two jetted out before first responders got there.
Even more
natlanthem (Diary) Saturday, September 25th at 12:42PM EDT (link)President and CEO of Black Parent Initiative
http://www.thebpi.org/about.html
And his LinkedIn account with picture
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/charles-mcgee/5/488/48a
The other co-founder of Black Parent Initiative appears to be Johnell Bell.
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/johnell-bell/6/279/405
Johnell Bell, a former staff aide to Portland Mayor Tom Potter and Multnomah County Chairman Ted Wheeler, is co-founder of the Black Parent Initiative. As a high school senior, he served on the Portland School Board as the student representative.
Could the guy hitting the filmer be an aide to the Portland Mayor? This could get interesting.
And it leads to the top
natlanthem (Diary) Saturday, September 25th at 1:02PM EDT (link)And guess who is a Field Representative for Senator Jeff Merkley (D-OR)?
mailto:johnell_bell@merkley.senate.gov
http://www.knowwho.com/old_site/misc/web_record.asp?type=mem&id=22262&q=
http://theportlander.com/2010/08/04/oregon-sustainability-center-moves-forward-in-portland/
“Portland has long been the green-building industry leader for the nation,” said Johnell Bell, representing Sen. Merkley at Council. “To stay the leader, we must continue to evolve. Senator Merkley remains committed to the Oregon Sustainability Center and to Oregon becoming the hub of the new clean energy economy.”
The cameraman needed to leave when asked
Ghost of John Brown Sunday, September 26th at 8:22AM EDT (link)I’ve been the guy that has had to ask Democrat video guys to leave semi-private events before. Recently I held an event at a golf course and the event was well publicized. I politely asked the Democrat to leave and he did.
If we don’t want their cameramen at our events and we have the right to ask them to leave, then we need to repond the same way. Forcing both sides to cal the police to have video guys leave is just a waste of the police’s time.