Big Wind looking for federal handout.


The wind ‘industry’ is apparently looking for more federal aid – actually, no, there’s nothing apparent about it.  They want more federal aid, they want it permanently – and they want it specifically allocated to them, and not as part of a nebulous ‘alternate energy’ package.  Otherwise, they’re afraid that they’ll go out of business. For the record: if your business plan requires – not benefits from; requires - an annual bailout from the federal government in order to function, then by definition you have a bad business plan.  Mostly because you are not actually in business; you are a parasite pretending to be a business.  I understand that this point has been obscured since the Democrats took Congress in 2007, but it bears repeating.  A lot of repeating.

Now that we’ve got that lesson in Capitalism 090 out of the way, let’s clear something up.  It may be that the 112th Congress may find it expedient to take into account the Left’s religious sensibilities on ‘green’ power.  If so, however, a basic appreciation of this country’s secular ideals demands that the Left gives up blocking its favorite environmental devil figure.  I refer, of course, to nuclear power generation.  To put it very bluntly: if they want to get the angels of wind farms then they have to enthusiastically support the demons of nuclear power plants.  Note ‘enthusiastically:’ they’re going to have to actively and effectively oppose the antinuke scientific illiterates alongside the rest of us.  Because the USA is not going to reduce the amount of power that we generate every year if we don’t have to, and that is not negotiable.  The more reasonable green types need to accept that reality.

And if they don’t want to do that: well. I guess that they don’t really love Mother Gaia all that much, after all.

Moe Lane (crosspost)


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22 Comments Leave a comment

No wind, solar etc until all Nuclear plants operational

woodbridgeva (Diary) Sunday, December 5th at 11:30AM EDT (link)

As a conservative environmentalist (and no that is not an oxymoron), I am sick of clean nuclear power being held hostage to the alternative power fad de-jour. We could have, and should have, replaced every smog generating coal power plant in the country 30 years ago if Greenpeace and the other back to the stone age Green socialists had not blocked any form of meaningful progress. Their stubborn insistence on unrealistic New Source Review standards and opposition to nuclear power has led to more pollution in our air and water than any 10 purposely polluting corporations. We also need to counter their arguments regarding subsidies for the nuclear power industry by pointing out the vast bulk of such subsidies consist of the Federal Government providing liability protection against frivolous lawsuits threatened by environmentalists in the very unlikely event of a major disaster. No nuclear power plant in the last 50 years has ever had to tap into that subsidy. The remaining subsidy has been the construction of Yucca Mountain, defined going forward as a “sunk cost”.

 

Sooooo tired of the bail-outs

immigrantswife Sunday, December 5th at 11:58AM EDT (link)

Enough already! If wind power is such a great power source than we would all want on board, which must not be the case since these companies need my money to keep them afloat. T. Boone Pickens tried his best to get people on board and didn’t change public opinion much at all, remember all those commercials?

Next they will tell us that this decision is too important to leave to the free market and so the government “specialists” should be able to do what they please with tax-payers’ money for the good of the environment. Well I am tired of these government “elites” without a whit of practical experience insulting my intelligence while wasting my husband’s hard earned income. 2012 can’t come soon enough for me.

"decision is too important to leave to the free market"

Next93 (Diary) Sunday, December 5th at 2:13PM EDT (link)

I’ve come to the conclusion that the real attraction of the environmental movement to most of it’s adherents is the moral authority it gives them (in thier minds, anyway) to tell the rest of the world how it should live, work, drive, eat, reproduce, As far as they’re concerned, there’s NO decision that isn’t too important to leave to the free market, or, by extension, to the individual.

Obama was The One in 2008.
He’ll be a BIGGER one in 2012.

 
 

It's part of the same scam which brought us ethanol

Adjoran (Diary) Sunday, December 5th at 12:04PM EDT (link)

You remember ethanol – huge subsidies for Big Ag, higher food prices, shorter engine lives, no relief from dependence on foreign energy, less efficient than gasoline, more damaging in toto to the environment, and politically impossible to get rid of.

Let’s not let Big Wind get its nose under the tent . . .

 

Stop big wind corporate welfare.

deevee Sunday, December 5th at 12:18PM EDT (link)

Big wind has no redeeming qualities. Look it up.

 

Good reference book

Alone_in_the_Dotte Sunday, December 5th at 1:04PM EDT (link)

I hope this link works, this is a very good book on nuclear power. It’s somewhat dated (1990) but the science hasn’t changed. Chapter 8 on “Understanding Risk” puts risk into perspective and is worth reading even if you don’t read any other part of the book.

http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~blc/book/BOOK.html

 

Big Enviros

talgus Sunday, December 5th at 1:15PM EDT (link)

really want back to the feudal days when there was royalty (the ruling class) and serfs (us). They are against power lines, so big wind can generate, but not deliver. Nucs are the best solution to all power needs, just keep them in one form-factor (no 57-varieties). Let the nay sayers (force them) live without the power they detest. (and no home generators that pollute more than anything else). Pollution ratings need to be put on all items (electric cars manufacturing pollutes, as well as the coal-fired electric they charge with).
Stop taking my money to push your agenda!!!!

"Stop taking my money to push your agenda!!!!"

immigrantswife Sunday, December 5th at 2:03PM EDT (link)

Exactly!

 
 

These are the same people who piously intone "sustainability"

Next93 (Diary) Sunday, December 5th at 2:24PM EDT (link)

The mantra of “sustainability” is all the rage among the greenies, yet they have no problem with “alternative” energy produced by “industries” that will need subsidies in perpetuity in order tonot just be competitve, but for thier very existance.

Obama was The One in 2008.
He’ll be a BIGGER one in 2012.

 

Trust me, this will be another upcoming Republican failure.

Tbone (Diary) Sunday, December 5th at 3:25PM EDT (link)

How many here think the the Republican House will pass a bill to defund the fraud of wind power? Anyone, anyone?

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

 

Wind power is already obsolete.

NeoKong (Diary) Sunday, December 5th at 3:56PM EDT (link)

Mini-reactors are the new generation of clean energy.
Did anyone know that Bill Gate and Toshiba are teaming up to produce mini-reactors that can run on spent fuel rods and last for thirty years….?

Gates specifically backs a new a new type of reactor known as a traveling wave reactor (TWR). As he explained in a February keynote at TED, a TWR could actually use the depleted uranium currently being produced as a waste product of existing nuclear reactors. According to Gates, just the existing waste currently squirreled away in hazardous waste sites could power the U.S. for two centuries. Each reactor would potentially produce between a few hundred watts and a gigawatt of energy – enough to power a small city.

But wait there’s more.

Hyperion power module.

The Savannah River Site could soon be home to a new “mini” transportable nuclear reactor. The Savannah River National Laboratory (SRNL) and Hyperion Power Generation, Inc. announced their agreement this week.

Garry Flowers, president and CEO of Savannah River Nuclear Solutions, which operates SRNL under contract to the U.S. Department of Energy, says, “Small and modular reactors can become the primary base of new, clean power for the world.”

It would be nice to see the U.S. lead the way on this.
Imagine the future when large buildings or small cities can completely remove themselves from the grid by having their very own power plant.

Follow me on Twitter.

"Imagine the future..."

edintexas Monday, December 6th at 10:26AM EDT (link)

It wouldn’t have to be very far in the future, pebble bed nuclear generator technology is available now for the same purpose. While we are at it, lest we forget – we could be reprocessing nuclear fuel and reducing the waste to (IIRC) about 10% of the current total. But why aren’t we maximizing the use of the nuclear fuel components? I seem to recollect that Jimmy Carter banned re-processing. Did he ban it because it was cheaper to use the “once through” cycle? No, he banned it because it separated out the Plutonium which we could be accused to using to make more nuclear weapons. Or, even worse, be accused of encouraging nuclear proliferation. We certainly wouldn’t want any countries other than the US, GB, France, USSR, China and (maybe) Israel (with India starting underground testing in 1974) having nuclear weapons.

*For those old enough to vividly recall, that was his pronunciation, which didn’t garner near the derision from the media which “nuculer” did a couple of decades later. Wonder why that is – not.

Mini power plants

boxedquad Tuesday, December 7th at 3:36AM EDT (link)

The navy used spent rods for a portable vessel in the arctic for years, but the use once and dump into ocean was not followed up on, to my knowledge, slightly old.

Wind Power is good but not cost effective in all area’s, you need a reason to make power with wind, not just to build them, If your congress gets out of the wind business and it can be built on its own merits then OK, no tax credits period, that ruined CA wind farms with make it for tax reasons… Having built them, I vote to have them, if they pay for themselves. CA is now putting up gas turbines to support wind farms, 8MW in Riverside. Not very efficient at that.

If you want Nuclear get the Pols out of it.. and put the pay as you build back in the energy mix.. The Greenie Commies forced the cost to be withheld till on line, nice line but billions spent in Interest During Construction cost added to the cost to build. A really defensive program by the greeen weinnnies. Along with if anything happens, the Chief Executive Officer and many others have to spend time in jail… for things that Rangel got a slap on the wrist over.,,,Put us back on 1965 era power plant building structure and let NRC to its real job, oversight. And now we will have to educate and build a complete new generation of power plant engineers and builder, most have retired. Like myself.

 
 
 

If wind power is such a great idea

izoneguy (Diary) Sunday, December 5th at 4:22PM EDT (link)

It would have been developed in tandem with the rise of the petroleum industry in the 1940′s & 50′s. It was never viable until the social experimenters got ahold of it and pushed the government to subsidize it. It is still not self sustaining and never will be. You cannot force the wind to blow harder or force the wind to turn your turbines. My grandfather & uncle were farmers. I remember the windmills they had on the farm to pump water. And I also remember when they replace them with diesel generators to run the water pumps. And as a boy I remember asking my uncle why they needed as engine to pump the water when the windmill seemed to be working. And he said “Well if God would blow a little harder and more often I would not need this engine pump”.

Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged

 

Wind power might be a great idea but...

jamesalfred Sunday, December 5th at 5:13PM EDT (link)

I couldn’t agree with the article more. This is not that wind power is a bad idea in itself, it is the business plan. If bailouts are required, it should be rethought.

The government waste over $100 Million on a solar plant in CA and these companies want them to keep throwing massive amounts at continued ventures that are destined to fail.

Green jobs are garbage, if the econaomy wanted them we would have them. 2012 can’t come fast enough for me either.

http://crazyconservative.wordpress.com/

Big wind is a bad idea in itself...

deevee Sunday, December 5th at 6:37PM EDT (link)

It simply does fulfill any of what it promises.
Look it up.

oops...

deevee Sunday, December 5th at 6:39PM EDT (link)

Big wind does not fulfill any of what it promises.

 
 
 

Cancun climate conference: the warmists' last Mexican wave

izoneguy (Diary) Sunday, December 5th at 8:37PM EDT (link)

Cancun climate conference: the warmists’ last Mexican wave

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/8181558/Cancun-climate-conference-the-warmists-last-Mexican-wave.html

Why, for instance, when our public debt is still rising by £3 billion a week, do we allow our Government to ring-fence £2.9 billion of our money to help the developing world to build useless wind turbines and solar panels?

Why do we tolerate a Parliament which blithely commits us to spending £18.3 billion every year for 40 years under the Climate Change Act, without having the faintest idea how we are going to keep our lights on?

The global warming scare may have been fun for the children while it lasted. But the time has come for the joke to be declared well and truly over.

Yes, why indeed.

Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged

izoneguy- Excellent link, but

Scope (Diary) Sunday, December 5th at 8:57PM EDT (link)

it would be great to once again point to the banning of the incandescent lightbuld, as a further effort to tell Upton it’s time for him to slink to the background. If this person gets the Chair of the Energy and Commerce Committe, we know that not only he, but the House Republican Leadership has lost their minds.

 
 

It not "blowin' in the wind" ... it blew away

GreyCloak (Diary) Sunday, December 5th at 11:04PM EDT (link)

The US ONCE had a nuclear power industry, but thirty years of neglect and scorn have taken away our ability to do nukes.

Westinghouse Electric Company was sold to Toshiba. General Electric’s nuclear technology is now GE Hitachi.

The “Class-A” certified workers who built US nuclear power plants are retired or in their fifties.

Neither Chicago Bridge and Iron nor any other American firm retains the machinery needed to BUILD a sizable nuclear reactor.

“Small and modular” reactors is a pipe dream … our remaining nuclear reactors might qualify, but are constrained to use on ships and submarines. Despite their power, the energy needed to drive a ship is far less than that produced to generate electricity for a city. And the design parameters for a civilian US nuclear power plant include the ability to withstand the impact of a 747!

Wind sounds good … if you don’t mind killing off a few bugs and birds, reducing efficiency by 30% in a few months … finding out that the land “downwind” of wind farms turns into desert due to turbulence and rapid evaporation … or that turbines and cables far out in the ocean tend to corrode from the natural action of oceans.

One could remember the “stimulus” of Synfuels Corp … a $4 billion waste of taxpayers money that discovered that turning coal into oil is costly, although the Germans of WWII thought it effective, and the South Africans do it to this day.

If business plans that depend on bailouts are unsuccessful … just ask the executives of S&Ls or Goldman Sachs. A modest $10 billion contribution to Congress over the past ten years brought them $trillions in taxpayer money. And not a few politicians bought up failed S&Ls for their retirement portfolios.

Meanwhile, the Dresden nuclear plant was first activated in 1960 and none of the fish in its cooling ponds have more than one head, to this day! Three Mile Island was decommissioned, but “The Kemeny Commission Report concluded that “there will either be no case of cancer or the number of cases will be so small that it will never be possible to detect them. The same conclusion applies to the other possible health effects.” Harrisburg PA is still standing.

Harry Reid and his predecessors were only too happy to take $18 billion to build Yucca Mountain, and South Carolina is suing Congress for “breach of contract.”

Nuclear energy solves a great part of the “carbon crisis,” but neither environmentalists nor Congress will let it happen. Our chances are blowing in the wind.

 

If I set up a company that makes continuals losses

jackhammer Monday, December 6th at 5:55AM EDT (link)

Let’s say a company that sends me and my family on vacation 3 times a year,a dn invites my wife and I to dinner once a week,a dn has no real income coming in…it doesn’t take too long untilt he IRS shuts that down as a fake company…..

how can a continual subsidisation company then continue to exist?

and if it really loses so much money?

jackhammer Monday, December 6th at 6:24AM EDT (link)

Why not let the Chinese take the lead on this. they can lose hundreds of millions a year making their electricity more expensive…if they get it to work on scale and for cheap, then they will sell it to us anyway….

I never understood the arguments agaisnt it…if it has the most jobs per hour, why not go to Conana the Barbarian style people pushing wheels?